June 25, 2025 • 35 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
"Is Ignorance Bliss?”
We ask, is ignorance bliss, or simply another form of discrimination?
Six of our friends talk about how they have been discriminated against or singled out in sometimes strange but often subtle ways - usually by people who believe they are doing the right thing.
We also have a call to action from our listeners. Next week we are looking into the updates to the 13 Cabs app, and we want Dog Guide users to test it out.
What can you do?
- If you haven’t already, install the 13 Cabs App.
- In the options declare you are an Assistance Dog user.
- Book a taxi and take a ride (doesn’t matter how far or where)
- Let us know how things worked out.
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
A special Thank you to Alex; Anthony; Lily; Steven; Emma and Heidi.
This program was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at https://cbf.org.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:07):
This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:16):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:17):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:18):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:24):
This week is ignorance, bliss or simply another form of discrimination?
S2 (00:29):
We look at some of the times where people have
been singled out and discriminated against, often for some of
the most innocent reasons.
S3 (00:37):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (00:53):
You can contact us via Email Studio one at Vision
Australia org. That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (00:59):
Org or perhaps you can drop us a note on
the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com. Comm slash
VA radio network.
S2 (01:09):
It's actually Deaf Blind Awareness Week and well, we were
going to do something with that, but. Well, no one
wants to take our call. I think it. Do I
smell or something like that?
S3 (01:19):
Or maybe they just didn't hear you, Sam.
S2 (01:21):
Well, I wasn't going to say that, but it's not
just been, um, people from deaf, blind, uh, Australia or
any of the state organizations that haven't wanted to talk
to us. Um, it's also been, uh, the people at, uh,
one three cabs who have seemingly talked to everybody else
except for us. And I'm sort of wanting to know
(01:42):
what the reason for that is. Um, are they afraid
that we're going to ask the wrong questions or ask
questions that they don't want to hear? We are not
covering that subject this week, but we are looking at
covering it next week. So we're going to try something
a little bit different. And that's why we're talking about
it right now at the start of the show. Dear listener,
what we are asking you to do, if you if
(02:02):
you can. And this is a very simple one if
you are a guide dog user. One install the one
three cabs app on your phone. Two make sure that
you are registered as a guide dog user. Lizzie, you've
done this yourself. I've done.
S3 (02:17):
This. Yes, yes, it's very easy to do.
S2 (02:20):
And three, take a taxi ride.
S3 (02:23):
Yeah. You can just go up to the shops and back.
You can go wherever you like. It doesn't have to
be an expensive taxi ride. But we want to know.
Do you experience a difference in service? And if you
do have any complaints, if something does happen, is it
easy to get that complaint through? And do you get
(02:43):
any feedback as to what happens to the driver?
S2 (02:45):
So yes, if you are having any financial problems with it, um,
then um, I suppose drop us an email if you're
keen to actually be involved and we can probably, uh,
look into helping you out in, in some way there,
but we want to get the actual data and the
information and, and really know whether this thing works. Maybe
then the people from one three cabs would be more
keen to hear from us, but, um. Well we'll see.
(03:07):
And we'll place. We're placing a few more phone calls
as well to, uh, see if anyone else wants to
talk about this subject. So that, dear listener, that is
our project and what we'd like to you to do
to help us out so that we can help you out. Anyway, this.
S3 (03:22):
This week's show is along a similar sort of topic
to rideshare refusals, because I suppose that rideshare refusals are
a form of discrimination. And this week, that is exactly
what we are talking about. And we have a few
people lined up who are going to tell some fairly
interesting stories, and I've got some stories of my own.
(03:44):
I'm sure that you've got some story.
S2 (03:45):
When I was listening to all these clips was there's
obvious forms of discrimination where, um, someone will say, okay,
I don't think you can do this job because you're blind,
or someone will say, you don't look blind and ironically enough,
treat you like whatever. But then there's also these more
subtle forms which seem to come through, and this seems
(04:07):
to be a running theme through a lot of, um,
what the people we've been talking to, people that think
they're doing the right thing but are really making us
look bad and themselves look bad at the same time. So,
I mean, without ado, let us talk to the first person.
This is Alex and her spin on things.
S4 (04:31):
Not in the workplace. I did in some social settings
with friends many years ago. They weren't able to understand
the fact that there are just certain things I couldn't do.
Certain things took longer, you know, getting certain places. They'd
arrange for something. And it's like, you guys realize I
have to catch the bus, right? That's where a lot
of it would come in.
S2 (04:54):
Um, we're encouraged to form friendships outside the blindness community, but, um,
if people outside the blindness community don't understand that. All right.
You can organize this. Terrific. Fantastic things somewhere out in
the middle of nowhere, and we've still got to get there.
S3 (05:11):
I will admit, my friends are pretty good. Um, outside
of the blindness community, they're very supportive, very inclusive. That's
why they're my friends still to this day. I actually
find blind friends are the worst at this. But I
guess that's another topic, like, you know, um, they want
you to make the effort to come and see them
on the other side of town. But then when you
(05:31):
organize something, it's my anxiety on public transport. And there's anyway,
that's a whole nother subject. Maybe we should just delete
this part, I don't know.
S2 (05:41):
Anyway, onwards and upwards. We're talking now, and Anthony has
a few things to say about a number of different subjects,
so I'll just leave it to him.
S5 (05:53):
Most of the issues is around catching public transport. Um,
you've got the issue of the bus not stopping for you, um,
because you're supposed to wave the bus down, which is
very difficult when you're blind, even though the bus drivers,
they can see you with a guide dog or cane.
I suppose to stop quite often they don't. And as
(06:13):
a result, I've had to book buses sometimes, and by
ringing up the depot. And even then they've gone past
me thinking, oh, that means just walking the dog, which
is just illogical when they know that a blind person
with a guide dog at the bus stop. So figured
that one out. A lot of it is on on
the bus, because, um, that's why I'm meeting the majority
(06:34):
of people in a concentrated area. Bus drivers, for some reason,
rather think you can't step onto the bus. And so
they'll they'll lower the bus, usually while you're stepping on
or off it. So actually stepping on the bus while
it's still moving up and down. I've even had them
drop the bus on my feet where it's lower down
because the bus hangs over the footpath. Then my dog's
(06:57):
sideswiped by a bus because they've tried to get so
close to the footpath at the front of the bus
goes over it. Wow. Then the bus drivers think you
can't get on the bus and they think that's a
major issue. And before you can say anything, they've lowered
the bus. They're rearranging the passengers at the front of
the bus so you can sit down. And when they
(07:17):
come back, they haven't told me the most crucial thing
and single thing I need. What number bus are you?
And when they realize not my bus, I get really
share with me because they've rearranged the whole front of
the bus so I can sit down. And this is
still ongoing. Ongoing now. Bus drivers, even if you ask them,
(07:37):
you'll get stupid answers like where the bus is going,
where it's been, where it's going to go. They'll give
you everything but the bus number, or they panic and
just rattle off things like their driver's license number or
their registration number of the bus, not the route number,
which is common sense if you can't see. So they
(07:59):
just go into a state of panic half the time.
And that's a common psychological phenomena that become temporarily idiots,
as they say in the textbooks. You can just walk
down the street and people will walk up to you
and say, oh, you must be lost. Oh, yeah. And
that just I can't figure that one out. Even on
one occasion, I had somebody walk up to me and say,
it must be hard living in poverty.
S3 (08:20):
Well, why?
S6 (08:21):
Why would they say that to you?
S5 (08:22):
Well, they just believe people with disabilities must be poverty
stricken for some reason or other. So you get this
all the time. I've gone to, um, uh, pubs for
a meal, and they not even ask me, but they'll
cut up my food for me, which is highly offensive.
They get things like that all the time. I've been
refused to be given a wine glass or stemmed wine
(08:45):
glass because they were convinced I was going to knock
it over and smash it. Or if I go to
grab my drink, they'll hold the top of it because
they think I'm going to knock it over. You know,
places that, uh, wouldn't let me sit on a bar
stool because it didn't have a back on it, and
they were worried I was going to fall off.
S7 (09:00):
Oh my God.
S5 (09:01):
You know, even at the hospital, they wouldn't let me
sit on a swivel chair. Because in case I spin
out of control and fly onto the floor, it's amazing experience.
And using a public toilet for some reason or other,
I went to the toilet. This lady saw me go
in and she blocked the doorway and was yelling at you.
You can't go in there. There's a blind man in
there going to the toilet. You might upset him.
S6 (09:23):
Are you serious?
S5 (09:24):
And I thought, what the hell's going on here? Clearly
the lady was a few screws loose, but nevertheless, it's
an extreme thing to to do. So it's, um, as
well as, you know, access, because I'm a guide dog user.
Access into places with a guide dog. Uh, less common nowadays,
but it still happens. I still get challenged, uh, regularly
(09:47):
because I carry a copy of legislation with me. I
can overcome that. And every couple of years, you'll get
a serious case where they won't listen, listen to you
because they don't respect you or see you as an
equal and won't let you in. So it's right across
the board describing that happens anywhere, anytime, for no real
reason at all.
S2 (10:10):
What Anthony described is the panic that certain people have
when they're encountering something that's outside their experience. And yeah,
it's a combination of not knowing what to do. And
I suppose deciding not to put themselves in somebody else's position.
(10:32):
I mean, how would you feel if someone called attention
to you in that way?
S3 (10:39):
Me personally. Personally?
S2 (10:40):
Well, I'm saying, yeah, to an able bodied person doing that,
how would they feel if someone called attention to to
you as you were busy going about your business in
that way? Um, you know, um, hello. The, uh, the
waitress with the, uh, the large breasts, um, is, uh,
going to the toilet at the moment. You know, it's, um.
I don't see how a lot of this could be
(11:02):
seen as anything else but offensive. But as I said,
it's something that people can't put themselves in our place
because they can't imagine having a disability. And if they
can imagine that, they catastrophize, it must be the most
terrible thing ever to not be able to see.
S3 (11:20):
I think this is just exactly what you've touched upon.
And I tend to think that these are the people
who catastrophize anyway.
S2 (11:28):
Who I will talk to next. We are talking to
Lily and. Well, again, a slightly different view on things.
S8 (11:36):
I was refused to walk into a doctor's surgery office
the other day with my dog, because she just didn't
understand that the dog could come into the premises, you know?
And I was it was suggested that I leave her outside.
S3 (11:52):
Oh my goodness.
S8 (11:53):
Yeah. It was, uh, that was a big one. And
that that was, um, that was. Yeah, had me in
tears because I could not believe the ignorance of that person. I, uh,
I reported that to Guide Dogs NSW because my, my
dog is in with guide dogs and, uh, um, I
also spoke to the police about that and got them to, uh,
give that business one of the cards that tells, uh,
(12:15):
talks about the law that that wasn't that was two
weeks ago, Lizzy. You know, um, and I just thought, well,
some people still don't get it. I also, uh, had
to get a blood test from that same place, and I,
I go to this place because it's within walking distance
to my home. And, uh, I was told that, um,
they suggested I go somewhere else to to, uh, to
(12:38):
have the blood sample taken.
S3 (12:40):
Um, because of the dog.
S8 (12:41):
Because of the dog. Um, and they used the excuse
that the dog. Duh. Um, had a phobia against dogs
because she was bitten as a child. Um, and I
was sitting, and I was in disbelief. I just yeah,
it wasn't pleasant, Uh, I think one of the other, um,
speaking about blood, it's funny, the theme is about blood
(13:04):
is that I also face discrimination in a Red cross
blood donor mobile van. Um, actually, I turned up to
the band to. Now I didn't have to disclose. I
was bringing her, and I had booked in to give blood.
I've been giving blood for years. I decided to bring
Tilly this day. And I was standing there, um, at
(13:24):
the bottom of the stairs, uh, to go in, and, uh,
she looked down at me. She said, the dog can't
come in. It's for health and health reasons or something
or other. And I said, yeah, she can. And I
explained and she said, well, you should, you should have
booked in as the last appointment of the day. And
I said, why is that? And she said, because we
have to clean up after the dog. I said, I
(13:45):
beg your pardon? I said, she's just going to sit there.
She's not going to poop on the floor or, you know, um,
I again spoke to Red cross about this. They were mortified. aside,
but still, when I ring to make my appointments, I
give them the, uh, you know, I think, well, okay, I'll,
you know, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
(14:05):
and I'll, um, I'll, I'll tell them I'm bringing a dog.
And every time I do, they go, oh, we'll just
have to check. Now, you don't have to check anything. Um,
I'm just I'm just giving, you know, respectfully telling you
I'm going to bring the dog so you, you know,
to expect the dog, but, um. Oh, we have to
check with our supervisors. Oh, yeah. So, um. Uh, yeah,
(14:27):
there's things like that. Uh, you know, I've, uh, again, um,
I had a local, uh, airline. Just a domestic airline. Um,
when I was trying to book the flight with the dog. Um,
tell me, um, that I needed to submit all this paperwork,
and I knew that I didn't. You do for international flights,
(14:48):
but not for domestic. Uh, I went through about 3
or 4 different people to. Finally, they accepted that they
were wrong and I could book the dog. And then
they said, oh, actually, no, you can't book her on
because you're in with 20, you're in 48 hours within
the flight. Um, if you've got a dog, apparently you
have to do it within 48 hours of the flight going, um,
(15:08):
and I was trying to get what they call a
community fair, which is a cheap fair, um, which became
available 24 hours before the flight goes. And they're significantly cheaper. Yeah,
but of course, that discriminates against me because I have
to book 48 hours out. So, um. Yeah, that was, uh,
that was something I came up against with a couple
(15:29):
of airlines, actually, and I'm yet to do anything with that,
but I. I just don't think that's right. It's discriminating
means I can't get a cheap fare because I'm coming
on the flight with a dog. Um, so, you know,
things like that, you know, still, uh, I think I
think transport services have got a little bit better, you know? Um, but, yeah,
I've had many refusals, uh, just or even when I've
(15:51):
used my, um, in New South Wales, we've got a, um,
a card that allows you to get the half price
taxi fares for people with, uh.
S3 (15:59):
Yeah.
S8 (16:00):
Just, you know, the one I'm talking about. And, uh.
S6 (16:02):
Yeah.
S8 (16:03):
Yeah. And, um, if I don't have Tilly with me,
and I might have just, um, had my cane, um,
in my bag because all I'm going is across my
front lawn to the car, and I can see the car,
and they'll say to me, um, who's card is that?
And I say, it's mine. It's got a photograph of
me on it. And they'll go, well, you don't look blind.
And if I had a dollar for every time someone
(16:23):
told me, I didn't look blind, you know. So. Oh,
we have to double check. No, you don't have to
double check. That's mine. You know.
S3 (16:31):
That's crazy.
S8 (16:32):
Yeah. So I get I get it here and there.
And unfortunately, what do they expect you to to present? Like,
I don't know, it's a bit unfair that you have
to present in a certain way, if just to, to
prove to them that you, um, you, in fact, are
deserving of all this help, um, or this support. Um.
S6 (16:51):
Yeah.
S3 (16:51):
Exactly.
S8 (16:52):
Yeah. And we shouldn't have to know, you feel bad
because we we get support. Um, and I do sometimes
I've been, you know, I've been at times I just
I'm tired and it's the end of the day, and
I think I don't want to have to explain myself
to this person. So I'm going to pay the full fare.
You know, I've done it a few times just because
(17:12):
I'm tired. You know, I'm tired of it. And I
just want it to stop.
S2 (17:22):
So we're we're back to, um. You don't look blind.
S3 (17:25):
We are, I think I think this is a common
thread that ties us all together. Um, you know, uh,
people think that we don't look blind, and it tends
to be the more active members of the community that
faces discrimination because we are often out and about by ourselves.
Lily was talking about a few issues, uh, dog refusals
(17:48):
and things like that. Yeah. I mean, I've had some doozies.
I've been refused service at a bakery. Three. My doctor
pretty much has a panic attack every time I bring
Lacey in. Luckily, you know, because she's retired now, I
don't usually take her. But, um, speaking of discrimination, I
actually do have a story of my own that I
thought I would tell, but I went into a really
(18:11):
popular phone store wanting to sign up for a plan,
and I was told by the manager there and the person,
the customer service rep, that I needed a carer to
sign for me in order to get a plan. Um,
I was with my support worker, Megan. She argued with
them for 20 minutes asking to see a printout of
that policy. They called the, um, the national manager or
(18:34):
whoever it was higher up than them, and they said, oh, well,
this time we can allow you to do it. But
for future reference, we need all people with disabilities to
sign or to have a carer sign for any, um,
products or plans that they wish to purchase.
S2 (18:48):
Well, I think, I think, I think you should name
the actual company that said that because, uh, we can
we need to follow that one up.
S3 (18:55):
It was Vodafone.
S2 (18:56):
Well, um, dear listener, we will, um, make a few inquiries.
Subtle inquiries to Vodafone. Um, that.
S3 (19:01):
Apparently I have six months to put in a complaint
to the EOC. But like Lily said, I'm tired. Like,
I've got so much other stuff going on in my life.
The last thing I really want to think about is
collating a bunch of statements from me and Meghan to
corroborate this, and then take it through to the EOC. And,
you know, just so that I may get some reparations
(19:24):
from it. I was pretty disgusted and it was really upsetting.
I think the thing that got me about the Vodafone
situation was the terminology carer, because you were now just
assuming that as a citizen with a disability that I
have a carer and I yeah, I mean half the
argument was Meghan is not my carer, she is my
(19:47):
support worker. She spends this time on a Friday up
morning with me, but she does not care for me.
So legally, that term doesn't even bind in my situation
because I do not have a carer listed on anything
I haven't. I have never employed a carer. I've never
(20:07):
indicated to Centrelink that I have a carer. So this
is this, this outdated language as well that needs to
be fixed.
S2 (20:14):
Well, um, strictly speaking I suppose, um, you know, um, you're,
you're married and your husband cares about you, so he
is a carer and you're his carer too?
S3 (20:24):
Yes. I mean, technically.
S2 (20:25):
So maybe, maybe, maybe if you're both going for a phone,
you could sign each other's, um, declarations.
S3 (20:30):
But, see, we'd gone to this store, uh, the same
store to about six months prior because he was swapping from, uh,
another company to Vodafone, and I was with him. And
this at this point, Lacey was still working. They did
not ask him for a carers signature. Only me. It
was so strange. So strange. I. I couldn't believe it.
(20:53):
It beggars belief. It's it's. I don't get it.
S2 (20:56):
Well, we'll check that up. And, dear listener, if you
have encountered something similar with the same said company, then
please let us know. This is an absolutely chilling development really,
and could be the darker side of the NDIS in
some ways, with the assumption that we all have carers. Anyway, we, uh,
move on to Emma.
S9 (21:17):
I faced discrimination in so many things. For instance, I
was volunteering at a place and they were making it
unnecessarily hard for me putting up all these obstacles going
on about that. They weren't trying to be patronising, but
I should take my mum with me. Or could I
take a friend with me? And it's like, no, this
(21:39):
is my thing, you know, I want to volunteer and
this is my thing. So I left that place of
my own accord. I Also faced a massive discrimination thing.
Last year when I was trying to pass something they
(22:00):
said they couldn't pass me due to me not being
able to see things that required vision, and I wasn't
having any of that. So I got help with phone
calls and emails, and I got to do the thing again.
And luckily I was able to pass, and I thought
(22:23):
that that was a very unnecessary discrimination to face because
I passed this thing so many times before. Why are
they doing this to me now?
S3 (22:33):
Exactly. And don't they usually have some sort of like
forms that they can adapt or modify the course material?
S9 (22:41):
They did. Like I had to fill out an online
thing on the computer, and luckily it was accessible enough
that my screen reader could do it. But I learned
that even when I informed the people when I was
enrolling in this thing, which only went for a day,
I was blind. They did not tell the trainer. And
(23:03):
I think it's very important that, you know, people learn
these things right away. It's important to be told. Oh yeah,
by the way, this person who's enrolling is blind and,
you know, not to tell anyone. And I also faced
a lot of discrimination at school as well. I mean,
(23:23):
I was ostracized because of my disability. People kept saying, oh,
you know what we do? It's inappropriate. It's difficult for you.
And it's like, you don't know that. And they just
wouldn't listen. And I was ostracized big time as well.
And so I faced plenty of discrimination.
S3 (23:46):
Yeah, I had that same experience in school.
S9 (23:49):
Many situations as well.
S6 (23:51):
Yeah.
S2 (23:57):
That's what we've got here in the case of, um,
a workplace and yes, it's a volunteer workplace, but it's
still a workplace is a bunch of people that clearly
don't want want anyone with a disability there. They feel uncomfortable,
and they're trying to find ways of just making her
(24:18):
go away, I think.
S3 (24:19):
Yeah, I think it could also be, uh, the assumption
that she isn't going to be able to do anything useful.
I've found that, too, um, you know, um, not so
much on the voluntary basis or side of things, but
even going to a party and, you know, you offer
to help with the clean up in the kitchen and
people are like, no, no, you can't help. It's all right.
(24:40):
It's too difficult or no, you'll you'll only get in
the way. And it's like, well, I can wash and
dry dishes, you know, just as well as anybody else,
in fact better because I use my hands to feel.
But anyway, yeah. So there could be a couple of
different things underpinning what's going on there, but that's just
not cool. Like, people, like places are in need of volunteers.
(25:02):
We are constantly hearing nowadays about how volunteers are so
important to keep organizations running and to, you know, provide
essential services. So for a voluntary based organization to deny
her the ability to actually provide service to her community
is insane.
S2 (25:23):
But that's how it works in the workplace as well.
I mean, you've got, um, situations where they're crying out
for teachers, for example. And yet if you have a
disability and you are a qualified teacher, you find it
a lot harder to get work. I found it difficult
to get work in the IT field because yes, they're
crying out for IT people. But fundamentally the people out
(25:44):
there do not believe that someone with a vision impairment can, uh,
listen to people on the phone and diagnose a problem
with their computer.
S3 (25:52):
Yeah, I get that. And admittedly, that's why I never
pursued my dream job, um, as a PT or a
fitness instructor, because, I mean, I know that I could
pass the course. I know that I have the knowledge
and the dedication to the course that it takes to
pass it, but who wants a blind personal trainer?
S2 (26:11):
I had that from a mutual friend of ours, uh,
rather recently, which was why we haven't not talking to
her on the radio, but, um. Um, good on you, uh,
miss C, uh, all right, so, um, we are now
moving on to the spouses, as it were, because this
subject affects everyone. So onwards to Stephen.
S3 (26:38):
Let's start off with way back when, you know, you
were trying to get into the workforce as a young
lad in the guitar industry. Talk us through some of
the discrimination you went through with that process.
S10 (26:49):
As a young fella, I did a lot of work experience.
At the age of 12, I did ten weeks worth
of work experience at the Adelaide Rock shop. Anyway, I
was trained as a professional guitar technician, setting up guitars
and retail. But when I went back there for a job,
I was pretty much denied. They sort of said you'd
be pretty much a liability, like working for us, because
(27:11):
your eyesight problems, when you've got high end guitars and
stuff like that, and we wouldn't want to get anything damaged.
At least they were honest about it through the 15
years or so that I tried to get work in
that field, I put my resume is all over the
city and was treated pretty much as a dark horse
or somebody that really should have been trying to find
work there. My biggest thing was when I went to
(27:31):
a guitar shop that I used to frequent, and they
had this young girl working there, and I asked her
what sort of Les Pauls they had, and she didn't
know what a Les Paul is. And for those of
you who don't know, Les Paul is the same guitar
as what slash plays in guns N roses, and they're very, very,
very popular. I confronted The boss about it, and the
only reason I really employed her was because, like, she
(27:53):
was young and hip again, when I asked about why
wasn't I employed there or why can't I get a
job there? They basically said, oh, we got your name
in the books, but you know, we really don't have
any work there. Later on, I went back to trying
to get work in other places around the traps and
the same thing. They take your resume and pretty much
screw it up from the beginning. I felt that the
(28:14):
way that I was spoken to, they weren't even interested
in my story.
S3 (28:17):
We got to go from the workplace now just to
a greater public setting. Tell me about some of the
discrimination you faced.
S10 (28:25):
I was over at a fast food chain, and they
have the, um, automatic screens up there, touch screens. You've
got to be able to see what's going on. And
I went up to the counter and I tried to
get the attention of the workers as they're going past.
And I put my hand up and like, you know,
singing out to them, hey. Hello. Hi. Can I, can
I place an order? And they just kept walking past
(28:46):
me and stuff like that. They'll look at me and
I'd see him looking back at me, and they'd just
shake their head and walk away. And this happened for
about 15 minutes, and then a group of youths come
in like teenagers, and they started placing orders straight away
over the counter. I was standing right next to him
and I was placing orders now, placing orders with the
people that I was already talking to or trying to
(29:07):
talk to to get their attention. So they just pretty
much ignored me. And I kind of lost my temper
a little bit, as you probably would. And, um, stormed
out of there and a half.
S3 (29:16):
Now we're gonna go in even deeper because you have
said that you've faced some discrimination within the family setting.
S10 (29:23):
With discrimination as far as family is concerned, if you
have a disability or blindness in my family, that is, um,
they're pretty bigoted around that. But the biggest problem I
had with my daughter growing up trying to get her
out about within the family. My sisters always had family
get togethers, and I'd like invite all their friends and
stuff around. They'd go to like a theme park or whatever,
(29:45):
but they'd always leave my poor daughter out of it.
And my daughter is nearly totally blind. She wasn't totally
blind at that stage, which she is now. She would
always get upset. And it was very, very heartbreaking for
me to see her in tears because she'd hear about
them having a great time and whatnot and not being
a part of it. This was more frequent after my
mum died, because my mum was always trying to include
(30:06):
us in like a family situation, because in the previous
marriage all of us were vision impaired or blind, but
we were always segregated against. They were always going to
the park or like going up the river or whatever
and leaving us behind. And I thought that was pretty sad.
S3 (30:28):
So we have a situation where the family discriminates, and
it's quite sad because it didn't just affect him. It
affected Amy, his daughter as well. You know, um, different
members of the family, excluding her from activities with other
cousins her age. Um, I didn't have this. My parents
were quite forward in making sure that I was involved,
(30:50):
but my parents also weren't disabled. One thing I found
interesting though, when he was explaining the difficulties that come
with trying to get a job as a guitar technician.
People don't want a guitar technician that has a vision impairment.
I think they think that he's not able to fix
guitars or do the job. But unlike today, where you
can't actually discriminate based on disability, he was trying to
(31:13):
get a job back in the day where people did
say outright, as we've just heard, that, no, we don't
want you because you're a liability with your eyesight issues
and expensive equipment. Yeah. You wouldn't get away with that
these days, would you, Sam?
S2 (31:26):
No, but they would still deny you work because they'd
find another reason. So when it comes down to, um.
And as.
S6 (31:32):
I said.
S3 (31:32):
To Stephen, they couch it in different terms.
S2 (31:34):
Exactly. And this is exactly the whole theme of what
we've been coming up with. We're going to finish off
with Heidi. Now, we sort of tackle a number of
different things here, but it seems a good way of
rounding everything up because she, um, has well, come up
with issues that we've all come up with. So we've, uh,
had workplace discrimination, but very, very subtle workplace discrimination. I mean,
(31:57):
she's never had problems getting getting a job, but yes,
some of us have found problems getting a promotion, for example.
S11 (32:09):
I always yeah, felt like, um, certainly when I was, um,
at my previous job, at times people would come in,
do the job that I was doing, and all of
a sudden they're climbing up the ladder. Mhm. Now, whether
they were just walking in the right people's ears, I
don't know. But yeah, I did feel at times that uh,
(32:30):
people were going to be getting ahead a lot quicker
than I was.
S2 (32:35):
Now we'll move a little bit more to um, private issues,
you might say. I mean, I've been there a few
times where? Well, you call it not necessarily discrimination, but
strange stuff has happened when we've been out and about. Mm. Uh,
the most obvious one has been, um. I've seen you
looking on your phone and people walk past and offer
(32:56):
you their glasses. I've find that personally annoying. Um, how
do you feel about it?
S11 (33:02):
I don't like it. It's not necessary. You do. You.
I'll do me. Is really my attitude. Why don't you
just come and ask me? Why am I looking closely
at my phone? Mm. You don't need to do that.
It's also like. Like in restaurants when I'm, uh, looking
at the menu closer than anyone else. Yeah. I can
(33:23):
remember the last time we were in Perth when we
were out for lunch, and I was reading a menu,
and that guy across the other side of the room
came and offered me his glasses, like you said. And
I think another time I was offered a magnifying glass
in a restaurant, too.
S2 (33:36):
Well, thank you, Heidi, that is a wrap for this week.
Big thank you to Alex, Anthony, Lily, Steven, Emma and Heidi.
S3 (33:43):
And of course, a big thanks to you for listening.
That includes our listeners on the Reading Radio Network. You
can find the podcast of this program, plus some extra
content on Apple, Spotify, Google, or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (33:58):
Next week we ask, does the update to one three
Cavs app make guide dog refusals less likely?
S3 (34:05):
We put the challenge out to our listeners with dog guides.
Maybe take a taxi ride and see what happens. Then
tell us.
S2 (34:13):
Definitely do that. You can email us Studio One at org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia, or comment on
the Facebook article that comes with this episode. Simply navigate
to facebook.com slash radio network.
S3 (34:27):
With luck, we'll hear from the company itself. But now,
more than any other time, we really want to hear
from you.
S2 (34:34):
This program was made possible with support from the Community
Broadcasting Foundation.
S3 (34:38):
Find out more at.
This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:16):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:17):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:18):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:24):
This week is ignorance, bliss or simply another form of discrimination?
S2 (00:29):
We look at some of the times where people have
been singled out and discriminated against, often for some of
the most innocent reasons.
S3 (00:37):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (00:53):
You can contact us via Email Studio one at Vision
Australia org. That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (00:59):
Org or perhaps you can drop us a note on
the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com. Comm slash
VA radio network.
S2 (01:09):
It's actually Deaf Blind Awareness Week and well, we were
going to do something with that, but. Well, no one
wants to take our call. I think it. Do I
smell or something like that?
S3 (01:19):
Or maybe they just didn't hear you, Sam.
S2 (01:21):
Well, I wasn't going to say that, but it's not
just been, um, people from deaf, blind, uh, Australia or
any of the state organizations that haven't wanted to talk
to us. Um, it's also been, uh, the people at, uh,
one three cabs who have seemingly talked to everybody else
except for us. And I'm sort of wanting to know
(01:42):
what the reason for that is. Um, are they afraid
that we're going to ask the wrong questions or ask
questions that they don't want to hear? We are not
covering that subject this week, but we are looking at
covering it next week. So we're going to try something
a little bit different. And that's why we're talking about
it right now at the start of the show. Dear listener,
what we are asking you to do, if you if
(02:02):
you can. And this is a very simple one if
you are a guide dog user. One install the one
three cabs app on your phone. Two make sure that
you are registered as a guide dog user. Lizzie, you've
done this yourself. I've done.
S3 (02:17):
This. Yes, yes, it's very easy to do.
S2 (02:20):
And three, take a taxi ride.
S3 (02:23):
Yeah. You can just go up to the shops and back.
You can go wherever you like. It doesn't have to
be an expensive taxi ride. But we want to know.
Do you experience a difference in service? And if you
do have any complaints, if something does happen, is it
easy to get that complaint through? And do you get
(02:43):
any feedback as to what happens to the driver?
S2 (02:45):
So yes, if you are having any financial problems with it, um,
then um, I suppose drop us an email if you're
keen to actually be involved and we can probably, uh,
look into helping you out in, in some way there,
but we want to get the actual data and the
information and, and really know whether this thing works. Maybe
then the people from one three cabs would be more
keen to hear from us, but, um. Well we'll see.
(03:07):
And we'll place. We're placing a few more phone calls
as well to, uh, see if anyone else wants to
talk about this subject. So that, dear listener, that is
our project and what we'd like to you to do
to help us out so that we can help you out. Anyway, this.
S3 (03:22):
This week's show is along a similar sort of topic
to rideshare refusals, because I suppose that rideshare refusals are
a form of discrimination. And this week, that is exactly
what we are talking about. And we have a few
people lined up who are going to tell some fairly
interesting stories, and I've got some stories of my own.
(03:44):
I'm sure that you've got some story.
S2 (03:45):
When I was listening to all these clips was there's
obvious forms of discrimination where, um, someone will say, okay,
I don't think you can do this job because you're blind,
or someone will say, you don't look blind and ironically enough,
treat you like whatever. But then there's also these more
subtle forms which seem to come through, and this seems
(04:07):
to be a running theme through a lot of, um,
what the people we've been talking to, people that think
they're doing the right thing but are really making us
look bad and themselves look bad at the same time. So,
I mean, without ado, let us talk to the first person.
This is Alex and her spin on things.
S4 (04:31):
Not in the workplace. I did in some social settings
with friends many years ago. They weren't able to understand
the fact that there are just certain things I couldn't do.
Certain things took longer, you know, getting certain places. They'd
arrange for something. And it's like, you guys realize I
have to catch the bus, right? That's where a lot
of it would come in.
S2 (04:54):
Um, we're encouraged to form friendships outside the blindness community, but, um,
if people outside the blindness community don't understand that. All right.
You can organize this. Terrific. Fantastic things somewhere out in
the middle of nowhere, and we've still got to get there.
S3 (05:11):
I will admit, my friends are pretty good. Um, outside
of the blindness community, they're very supportive, very inclusive. That's
why they're my friends still to this day. I actually
find blind friends are the worst at this. But I
guess that's another topic, like, you know, um, they want
you to make the effort to come and see them
on the other side of town. But then when you
(05:31):
organize something, it's my anxiety on public transport. And there's anyway,
that's a whole nother subject. Maybe we should just delete
this part, I don't know.
S2 (05:41):
Anyway, onwards and upwards. We're talking now, and Anthony has
a few things to say about a number of different subjects,
so I'll just leave it to him.
S5 (05:53):
Most of the issues is around catching public transport. Um,
you've got the issue of the bus not stopping for you, um,
because you're supposed to wave the bus down, which is
very difficult when you're blind, even though the bus drivers,
they can see you with a guide dog or cane.
I suppose to stop quite often they don't. And as
(06:13):
a result, I've had to book buses sometimes, and by
ringing up the depot. And even then they've gone past
me thinking, oh, that means just walking the dog, which
is just illogical when they know that a blind person
with a guide dog at the bus stop. So figured
that one out. A lot of it is on on
the bus, because, um, that's why I'm meeting the majority
(06:34):
of people in a concentrated area. Bus drivers, for some reason,
rather think you can't step onto the bus. And so
they'll they'll lower the bus, usually while you're stepping on
or off it. So actually stepping on the bus while
it's still moving up and down. I've even had them
drop the bus on my feet where it's lower down
because the bus hangs over the footpath. Then my dog's
(06:57):
sideswiped by a bus because they've tried to get so
close to the footpath at the front of the bus
goes over it. Wow. Then the bus drivers think you
can't get on the bus and they think that's a
major issue. And before you can say anything, they've lowered
the bus. They're rearranging the passengers at the front of
the bus so you can sit down. And when they
(07:17):
come back, they haven't told me the most crucial thing
and single thing I need. What number bus are you?
And when they realize not my bus, I get really
share with me because they've rearranged the whole front of
the bus so I can sit down. And this is
still ongoing. Ongoing now. Bus drivers, even if you ask them,
(07:37):
you'll get stupid answers like where the bus is going,
where it's been, where it's going to go. They'll give
you everything but the bus number, or they panic and
just rattle off things like their driver's license number or
their registration number of the bus, not the route number,
which is common sense if you can't see. So they
(07:59):
just go into a state of panic half the time.
And that's a common psychological phenomena that become temporarily idiots,
as they say in the textbooks. You can just walk
down the street and people will walk up to you
and say, oh, you must be lost. Oh, yeah. And
that just I can't figure that one out. Even on
one occasion, I had somebody walk up to me and say,
it must be hard living in poverty.
S3 (08:20):
Well, why?
S6 (08:21):
Why would they say that to you?
S5 (08:22):
Well, they just believe people with disabilities must be poverty
stricken for some reason or other. So you get this
all the time. I've gone to, um, uh, pubs for
a meal, and they not even ask me, but they'll
cut up my food for me, which is highly offensive.
They get things like that all the time. I've been
refused to be given a wine glass or stemmed wine
(08:45):
glass because they were convinced I was going to knock
it over and smash it. Or if I go to
grab my drink, they'll hold the top of it because
they think I'm going to knock it over. You know,
places that, uh, wouldn't let me sit on a bar
stool because it didn't have a back on it, and
they were worried I was going to fall off.
S7 (09:00):
Oh my God.
S5 (09:01):
You know, even at the hospital, they wouldn't let me
sit on a swivel chair. Because in case I spin
out of control and fly onto the floor, it's amazing experience.
And using a public toilet for some reason or other,
I went to the toilet. This lady saw me go
in and she blocked the doorway and was yelling at you.
You can't go in there. There's a blind man in
there going to the toilet. You might upset him.
S6 (09:23):
Are you serious?
S5 (09:24):
And I thought, what the hell's going on here? Clearly
the lady was a few screws loose, but nevertheless, it's
an extreme thing to to do. So it's, um, as
well as, you know, access, because I'm a guide dog user.
Access into places with a guide dog. Uh, less common nowadays,
but it still happens. I still get challenged, uh, regularly
(09:47):
because I carry a copy of legislation with me. I
can overcome that. And every couple of years, you'll get
a serious case where they won't listen, listen to you
because they don't respect you or see you as an
equal and won't let you in. So it's right across
the board describing that happens anywhere, anytime, for no real
reason at all.
S2 (10:10):
What Anthony described is the panic that certain people have
when they're encountering something that's outside their experience. And yeah,
it's a combination of not knowing what to do. And
I suppose deciding not to put themselves in somebody else's position.
(10:32):
I mean, how would you feel if someone called attention
to you in that way?
S3 (10:39):
Me personally. Personally?
S2 (10:40):
Well, I'm saying, yeah, to an able bodied person doing that,
how would they feel if someone called attention to to
you as you were busy going about your business in
that way? Um, you know, um, hello. The, uh, the
waitress with the, uh, the large breasts, um, is, uh,
going to the toilet at the moment. You know, it's, um.
I don't see how a lot of this could be
(11:02):
seen as anything else but offensive. But as I said,
it's something that people can't put themselves in our place
because they can't imagine having a disability. And if they
can imagine that, they catastrophize, it must be the most
terrible thing ever to not be able to see.
S3 (11:20):
I think this is just exactly what you've touched upon.
And I tend to think that these are the people
who catastrophize anyway.
S2 (11:28):
Who I will talk to next. We are talking to
Lily and. Well, again, a slightly different view on things.
S8 (11:36):
I was refused to walk into a doctor's surgery office
the other day with my dog, because she just didn't
understand that the dog could come into the premises, you know?
And I was it was suggested that I leave her outside.
S3 (11:52):
Oh my goodness.
S8 (11:53):
Yeah. It was, uh, that was a big one. And
that that was, um, that was. Yeah, had me in
tears because I could not believe the ignorance of that person. I, uh,
I reported that to Guide Dogs NSW because my, my
dog is in with guide dogs and, uh, um, I
also spoke to the police about that and got them to, uh,
give that business one of the cards that tells, uh,
(12:15):
talks about the law that that wasn't that was two
weeks ago, Lizzy. You know, um, and I just thought, well,
some people still don't get it. I also, uh, had
to get a blood test from that same place, and I,
I go to this place because it's within walking distance
to my home. And, uh, I was told that, um,
they suggested I go somewhere else to to, uh, to
(12:38):
have the blood sample taken.
S3 (12:40):
Um, because of the dog.
S8 (12:41):
Because of the dog. Um, and they used the excuse
that the dog. Duh. Um, had a phobia against dogs
because she was bitten as a child. Um, and I
was sitting, and I was in disbelief. I just yeah,
it wasn't pleasant, Uh, I think one of the other, um,
speaking about blood, it's funny, the theme is about blood
(13:04):
is that I also face discrimination in a Red cross
blood donor mobile van. Um, actually, I turned up to
the band to. Now I didn't have to disclose. I
was bringing her, and I had booked in to give blood.
I've been giving blood for years. I decided to bring
Tilly this day. And I was standing there, um, at
(13:24):
the bottom of the stairs, uh, to go in, and, uh,
she looked down at me. She said, the dog can't
come in. It's for health and health reasons or something
or other. And I said, yeah, she can. And I
explained and she said, well, you should, you should have
booked in as the last appointment of the day. And
I said, why is that? And she said, because we
have to clean up after the dog. I said, I
(13:45):
beg your pardon? I said, she's just going to sit there.
She's not going to poop on the floor or, you know, um,
I again spoke to Red cross about this. They were mortified. aside,
but still, when I ring to make my appointments, I
give them the, uh, you know, I think, well, okay, I'll,
you know, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
(14:05):
and I'll, um, I'll, I'll tell them I'm bringing a dog.
And every time I do, they go, oh, we'll just
have to check. Now, you don't have to check anything. Um,
I'm just I'm just giving, you know, respectfully telling you
I'm going to bring the dog so you, you know,
to expect the dog, but, um. Oh, we have to
check with our supervisors. Oh, yeah. So, um. Uh, yeah,
(14:27):
there's things like that. Uh, you know, I've, uh, again, um,
I had a local, uh, airline. Just a domestic airline. Um,
when I was trying to book the flight with the dog. Um,
tell me, um, that I needed to submit all this paperwork,
and I knew that I didn't. You do for international flights,
(14:48):
but not for domestic. Uh, I went through about 3
or 4 different people to. Finally, they accepted that they
were wrong and I could book the dog. And then
they said, oh, actually, no, you can't book her on
because you're in with 20, you're in 48 hours within
the flight. Um, if you've got a dog, apparently you
have to do it within 48 hours of the flight going, um,
(15:08):
and I was trying to get what they call a
community fair, which is a cheap fair, um, which became
available 24 hours before the flight goes. And they're significantly cheaper. Yeah,
but of course, that discriminates against me because I have
to book 48 hours out. So, um. Yeah, that was, uh,
that was something I came up against with a couple
(15:29):
of airlines, actually, and I'm yet to do anything with that,
but I. I just don't think that's right. It's discriminating
means I can't get a cheap fare because I'm coming
on the flight with a dog. Um, so, you know,
things like that, you know, still, uh, I think I
think transport services have got a little bit better, you know? Um, but, yeah,
I've had many refusals, uh, just or even when I've
(15:51):
used my, um, in New South Wales, we've got a, um,
a card that allows you to get the half price
taxi fares for people with, uh.
S3 (15:59):
Yeah.
S8 (16:00):
Just, you know, the one I'm talking about. And, uh.
S6 (16:02):
Yeah.
S8 (16:03):
Yeah. And, um, if I don't have Tilly with me,
and I might have just, um, had my cane, um,
in my bag because all I'm going is across my
front lawn to the car, and I can see the car,
and they'll say to me, um, who's card is that?
And I say, it's mine. It's got a photograph of
me on it. And they'll go, well, you don't look blind.
And if I had a dollar for every time someone
(16:23):
told me, I didn't look blind, you know. So. Oh,
we have to double check. No, you don't have to
double check. That's mine. You know.
S3 (16:31):
That's crazy.
S8 (16:32):
Yeah. So I get I get it here and there.
And unfortunately, what do they expect you to to present? Like,
I don't know, it's a bit unfair that you have
to present in a certain way, if just to, to
prove to them that you, um, you, in fact, are
deserving of all this help, um, or this support. Um.
S6 (16:51):
Yeah.
S3 (16:51):
Exactly.
S8 (16:52):
Yeah. And we shouldn't have to know, you feel bad
because we we get support. Um, and I do sometimes
I've been, you know, I've been at times I just
I'm tired and it's the end of the day, and
I think I don't want to have to explain myself
to this person. So I'm going to pay the full fare.
You know, I've done it a few times just because
(17:12):
I'm tired. You know, I'm tired of it. And I
just want it to stop.
S2 (17:22):
So we're we're back to, um. You don't look blind.
S3 (17:25):
We are, I think I think this is a common
thread that ties us all together. Um, you know, uh,
people think that we don't look blind, and it tends
to be the more active members of the community that
faces discrimination because we are often out and about by ourselves.
Lily was talking about a few issues, uh, dog refusals
(17:48):
and things like that. Yeah. I mean, I've had some doozies.
I've been refused service at a bakery. Three. My doctor
pretty much has a panic attack every time I bring
Lacey in. Luckily, you know, because she's retired now, I
don't usually take her. But, um, speaking of discrimination, I
actually do have a story of my own that I
thought I would tell, but I went into a really
(18:11):
popular phone store wanting to sign up for a plan,
and I was told by the manager there and the person,
the customer service rep, that I needed a carer to
sign for me in order to get a plan. Um,
I was with my support worker, Megan. She argued with
them for 20 minutes asking to see a printout of
that policy. They called the, um, the national manager or
(18:34):
whoever it was higher up than them, and they said, oh, well,
this time we can allow you to do it. But
for future reference, we need all people with disabilities to
sign or to have a carer sign for any, um,
products or plans that they wish to purchase.
S2 (18:48):
Well, I think, I think, I think you should name
the actual company that said that because, uh, we can
we need to follow that one up.
S3 (18:55):
It was Vodafone.
S2 (18:56):
Well, um, dear listener, we will, um, make a few inquiries.
Subtle inquiries to Vodafone. Um, that.
S3 (19:01):
Apparently I have six months to put in a complaint
to the EOC. But like Lily said, I'm tired. Like,
I've got so much other stuff going on in my life.
The last thing I really want to think about is
collating a bunch of statements from me and Meghan to
corroborate this, and then take it through to the EOC. And,
you know, just so that I may get some reparations
(19:24):
from it. I was pretty disgusted and it was really upsetting.
I think the thing that got me about the Vodafone
situation was the terminology carer, because you were now just
assuming that as a citizen with a disability that I
have a carer and I yeah, I mean half the
argument was Meghan is not my carer, she is my
(19:47):
support worker. She spends this time on a Friday up
morning with me, but she does not care for me.
So legally, that term doesn't even bind in my situation
because I do not have a carer listed on anything
I haven't. I have never employed a carer. I've never
(20:07):
indicated to Centrelink that I have a carer. So this
is this, this outdated language as well that needs to
be fixed.
S2 (20:14):
Well, um, strictly speaking I suppose, um, you know, um, you're,
you're married and your husband cares about you, so he
is a carer and you're his carer too?
S3 (20:24):
Yes. I mean, technically.
S2 (20:25):
So maybe, maybe, maybe if you're both going for a phone,
you could sign each other's, um, declarations.
S3 (20:30):
But, see, we'd gone to this store, uh, the same
store to about six months prior because he was swapping from, uh,
another company to Vodafone, and I was with him. And
this at this point, Lacey was still working. They did
not ask him for a carers signature. Only me. It
was so strange. So strange. I. I couldn't believe it.
(20:53):
It beggars belief. It's it's. I don't get it.
S2 (20:56):
Well, we'll check that up. And, dear listener, if you
have encountered something similar with the same said company, then
please let us know. This is an absolutely chilling development really,
and could be the darker side of the NDIS in
some ways, with the assumption that we all have carers. Anyway, we, uh,
move on to Emma.
S9 (21:17):
I faced discrimination in so many things. For instance, I
was volunteering at a place and they were making it
unnecessarily hard for me putting up all these obstacles going
on about that. They weren't trying to be patronising, but
I should take my mum with me. Or could I
take a friend with me? And it's like, no, this
(21:39):
is my thing, you know, I want to volunteer and
this is my thing. So I left that place of
my own accord. I Also faced a massive discrimination thing.
Last year when I was trying to pass something they
(22:00):
said they couldn't pass me due to me not being
able to see things that required vision, and I wasn't
having any of that. So I got help with phone
calls and emails, and I got to do the thing again.
And luckily I was able to pass, and I thought
(22:23):
that that was a very unnecessary discrimination to face because
I passed this thing so many times before. Why are
they doing this to me now?
S3 (22:33):
Exactly. And don't they usually have some sort of like
forms that they can adapt or modify the course material?
S9 (22:41):
They did. Like I had to fill out an online
thing on the computer, and luckily it was accessible enough
that my screen reader could do it. But I learned
that even when I informed the people when I was
enrolling in this thing, which only went for a day,
I was blind. They did not tell the trainer. And
(23:03):
I think it's very important that, you know, people learn
these things right away. It's important to be told. Oh yeah,
by the way, this person who's enrolling is blind and,
you know, not to tell anyone. And I also faced
a lot of discrimination at school as well. I mean,
(23:23):
I was ostracized because of my disability. People kept saying, oh,
you know what we do? It's inappropriate. It's difficult for you.
And it's like, you don't know that. And they just
wouldn't listen. And I was ostracized big time as well.
And so I faced plenty of discrimination.
S3 (23:46):
Yeah, I had that same experience in school.
S9 (23:49):
Many situations as well.
S6 (23:51):
Yeah.
S2 (23:57):
That's what we've got here in the case of, um,
a workplace and yes, it's a volunteer workplace, but it's
still a workplace is a bunch of people that clearly
don't want want anyone with a disability there. They feel uncomfortable,
and they're trying to find ways of just making her
(24:18):
go away, I think.
S3 (24:19):
Yeah, I think it could also be, uh, the assumption
that she isn't going to be able to do anything useful.
I've found that, too, um, you know, um, not so
much on the voluntary basis or side of things, but
even going to a party and, you know, you offer
to help with the clean up in the kitchen and
people are like, no, no, you can't help. It's all right.
(24:40):
It's too difficult or no, you'll you'll only get in
the way. And it's like, well, I can wash and
dry dishes, you know, just as well as anybody else,
in fact better because I use my hands to feel.
But anyway, yeah. So there could be a couple of
different things underpinning what's going on there, but that's just
not cool. Like, people, like places are in need of volunteers.
(25:02):
We are constantly hearing nowadays about how volunteers are so
important to keep organizations running and to, you know, provide
essential services. So for a voluntary based organization to deny
her the ability to actually provide service to her community
is insane.
S2 (25:23):
But that's how it works in the workplace as well.
I mean, you've got, um, situations where they're crying out
for teachers, for example. And yet if you have a
disability and you are a qualified teacher, you find it
a lot harder to get work. I found it difficult
to get work in the IT field because yes, they're
crying out for IT people. But fundamentally the people out
(25:44):
there do not believe that someone with a vision impairment can, uh,
listen to people on the phone and diagnose a problem
with their computer.
S3 (25:52):
Yeah, I get that. And admittedly, that's why I never
pursued my dream job, um, as a PT or a
fitness instructor, because, I mean, I know that I could
pass the course. I know that I have the knowledge
and the dedication to the course that it takes to
pass it, but who wants a blind personal trainer?
S2 (26:11):
I had that from a mutual friend of ours, uh,
rather recently, which was why we haven't not talking to
her on the radio, but, um. Um, good on you, uh,
miss C, uh, all right, so, um, we are now
moving on to the spouses, as it were, because this
subject affects everyone. So onwards to Stephen.
S3 (26:38):
Let's start off with way back when, you know, you
were trying to get into the workforce as a young
lad in the guitar industry. Talk us through some of
the discrimination you went through with that process.
S10 (26:49):
As a young fella, I did a lot of work experience.
At the age of 12, I did ten weeks worth
of work experience at the Adelaide Rock shop. Anyway, I
was trained as a professional guitar technician, setting up guitars
and retail. But when I went back there for a job,
I was pretty much denied. They sort of said you'd
be pretty much a liability, like working for us, because
(27:11):
your eyesight problems, when you've got high end guitars and
stuff like that, and we wouldn't want to get anything damaged.
At least they were honest about it through the 15
years or so that I tried to get work in
that field, I put my resume is all over the
city and was treated pretty much as a dark horse
or somebody that really should have been trying to find
work there. My biggest thing was when I went to
(27:31):
a guitar shop that I used to frequent, and they
had this young girl working there, and I asked her
what sort of Les Pauls they had, and she didn't
know what a Les Paul is. And for those of
you who don't know, Les Paul is the same guitar
as what slash plays in guns N roses, and they're very, very,
very popular. I confronted The boss about it, and the
only reason I really employed her was because, like, she
(27:53):
was young and hip again, when I asked about why
wasn't I employed there or why can't I get a
job there? They basically said, oh, we got your name
in the books, but you know, we really don't have
any work there. Later on, I went back to trying
to get work in other places around the traps and
the same thing. They take your resume and pretty much
screw it up from the beginning. I felt that the
(28:14):
way that I was spoken to, they weren't even interested
in my story.
S3 (28:17):
We got to go from the workplace now just to
a greater public setting. Tell me about some of the
discrimination you faced.
S10 (28:25):
I was over at a fast food chain, and they
have the, um, automatic screens up there, touch screens. You've
got to be able to see what's going on. And
I went up to the counter and I tried to
get the attention of the workers as they're going past.
And I put my hand up and like, you know,
singing out to them, hey. Hello. Hi. Can I, can
I place an order? And they just kept walking past
(28:46):
me and stuff like that. They'll look at me and
I'd see him looking back at me, and they'd just
shake their head and walk away. And this happened for
about 15 minutes, and then a group of youths come
in like teenagers, and they started placing orders straight away
over the counter. I was standing right next to him
and I was placing orders now, placing orders with the
people that I was already talking to or trying to
(29:07):
talk to to get their attention. So they just pretty
much ignored me. And I kind of lost my temper
a little bit, as you probably would. And, um, stormed
out of there and a half.
S3 (29:16):
Now we're gonna go in even deeper because you have
said that you've faced some discrimination within the family setting.
S10 (29:23):
With discrimination as far as family is concerned, if you
have a disability or blindness in my family, that is, um,
they're pretty bigoted around that. But the biggest problem I
had with my daughter growing up trying to get her
out about within the family. My sisters always had family
get togethers, and I'd like invite all their friends and
stuff around. They'd go to like a theme park or whatever,
(29:45):
but they'd always leave my poor daughter out of it.
And my daughter is nearly totally blind. She wasn't totally
blind at that stage, which she is now. She would
always get upset. And it was very, very heartbreaking for
me to see her in tears because she'd hear about
them having a great time and whatnot and not being
a part of it. This was more frequent after my
mum died, because my mum was always trying to include
(30:06):
us in like a family situation, because in the previous
marriage all of us were vision impaired or blind, but
we were always segregated against. They were always going to
the park or like going up the river or whatever
and leaving us behind. And I thought that was pretty sad.
S3 (30:28):
So we have a situation where the family discriminates, and
it's quite sad because it didn't just affect him. It
affected Amy, his daughter as well. You know, um, different
members of the family, excluding her from activities with other
cousins her age. Um, I didn't have this. My parents
were quite forward in making sure that I was involved,
(30:50):
but my parents also weren't disabled. One thing I found
interesting though, when he was explaining the difficulties that come
with trying to get a job as a guitar technician.
People don't want a guitar technician that has a vision impairment.
I think they think that he's not able to fix
guitars or do the job. But unlike today, where you
can't actually discriminate based on disability, he was trying to
(31:13):
get a job back in the day where people did
say outright, as we've just heard, that, no, we don't
want you because you're a liability with your eyesight issues
and expensive equipment. Yeah. You wouldn't get away with that
these days, would you, Sam?
S2 (31:26):
No, but they would still deny you work because they'd
find another reason. So when it comes down to, um.
And as.
S6 (31:32):
I said.
S3 (31:32):
To Stephen, they couch it in different terms.
S2 (31:34):
Exactly. And this is exactly the whole theme of what
we've been coming up with. We're going to finish off
with Heidi. Now, we sort of tackle a number of
different things here, but it seems a good way of
rounding everything up because she, um, has well, come up
with issues that we've all come up with. So we've, uh,
had workplace discrimination, but very, very subtle workplace discrimination. I mean,
(31:57):
she's never had problems getting getting a job, but yes,
some of us have found problems getting a promotion, for example.
S11 (32:09):
I always yeah, felt like, um, certainly when I was, um,
at my previous job, at times people would come in,
do the job that I was doing, and all of
a sudden they're climbing up the ladder. Mhm. Now, whether
they were just walking in the right people's ears, I
don't know. But yeah, I did feel at times that uh,
(32:30):
people were going to be getting ahead a lot quicker
than I was.
S2 (32:35):
Now we'll move a little bit more to um, private issues,
you might say. I mean, I've been there a few
times where? Well, you call it not necessarily discrimination, but
strange stuff has happened when we've been out and about. Mm. Uh,
the most obvious one has been, um. I've seen you
looking on your phone and people walk past and offer
(32:56):
you their glasses. I've find that personally annoying. Um, how
do you feel about it?
S11 (33:02):
I don't like it. It's not necessary. You do. You.
I'll do me. Is really my attitude. Why don't you
just come and ask me? Why am I looking closely
at my phone? Mm. You don't need to do that.
It's also like. Like in restaurants when I'm, uh, looking
at the menu closer than anyone else. Yeah. I can
(33:23):
remember the last time we were in Perth when we
were out for lunch, and I was reading a menu,
and that guy across the other side of the room
came and offered me his glasses, like you said. And
I think another time I was offered a magnifying glass
in a restaurant, too.
S2 (33:36):
Well, thank you, Heidi, that is a wrap for this week.
Big thank you to Alex, Anthony, Lily, Steven, Emma and Heidi.
S3 (33:43):
And of course, a big thanks to you for listening.
That includes our listeners on the Reading Radio Network. You
can find the podcast of this program, plus some extra
content on Apple, Spotify, Google, or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (33:58):
Next week we ask, does the update to one three
Cavs app make guide dog refusals less likely?
S3 (34:05):
We put the challenge out to our listeners with dog guides.
Maybe take a taxi ride and see what happens. Then
tell us.
S2 (34:13):
Definitely do that. You can email us Studio One at org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia, or comment on
the Facebook article that comes with this episode. Simply navigate
to facebook.com slash radio network.
S3 (34:27):
With luck, we'll hear from the company itself. But now,
more than any other time, we really want to hear
from you.
S2 (34:34):
This program was made possible with support from the Community
Broadcasting Foundation.
S3 (34:38):
Find out more at.
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