January 21, 2025 • 28 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
"Matt Levy - Leadership and Inclusion"
Sam talks to former Paralympic Swimmer Matt Levy OAM. Matt talks about retirement after the Birmingham Commonwealth Games; and the two self-help ebooks he released late last year.
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
Thank you once again to Matt.
You can find links to Matt's books here: https://www.mattlevy.com.au/
Vision Australia gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:06):
This is studio one on Vision Australia radio.
S2 (00:16):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:17):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:19):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:24):
On this week's show.
S2 (00:26):
We're joined by an old friend of the show, Matt
Levy talks about his retirement from Paralympic sport, what he
has been doing since then, and the two e-books he
has released that cover leadership and inclusion.
S3 (00:39):
As we always say, please do get in touch with
the show whether you have any experience with the issues
covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or if
you think there's something we should be talking about. You
never know. Your story and insight may help someone who's
dealing with something similar.
S2 (00:54):
Please email us studio one at Vision Australia. That's studio
number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:00):
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our
Facebook page. Just go to facebook.com slash Viva Radio network.
S2 (01:08):
So. Hello, Lizzie.
S3 (01:09):
Hello, Sam. How are we today?
S2 (01:10):
I'm pretty good, but, um, I was sort of waiting
for someone to join me at the, uh, interview that
I did yesterday, and, uh, she didn't turn up. Um,
I'm a bit disappointed.
S4 (01:21):
I feel like some sort of teenage wallflower.
S2 (01:22):
What happened? Oh, well, I.
S3 (01:23):
Didn't stand you up on purpose, Sam. Um, my computer
completely froze. So, you know, I could log in, and
as soon as I logged in, my screen reader just
stopped working, and I had no one there to help
me at the time. So I am very sorry I
didn't stand you up on purpose. Can you forgive me?
Can you ever forgive me?
S2 (01:40):
I will try. It actually goes to show that no
matter how many, uh, adaptations we make, when the adaptation
itself stops working, then everything else stops working as well,
doesn't it?
S3 (01:52):
It does, it does. And it's especially worse off when
you don't have any sighted assistance.
S2 (01:57):
Exactly. I mean, it's like the story I heard with, um,
all these fantastic password managers that we've got now. And
the trouble is, if you lose the password to your
password manager.
S3 (02:07):
Yeah. Um, I've never had that happen to me, but
I could imagine the result could be rather catastrophic.
S2 (02:14):
But this interview actually wasn't catastrophic. So let us jump
in and chat to Matt. Do you mind reading from
the headlines Paralympic Champions Mission to empower leaders and build
teams that thrive and embrace inclusion? Yes, I'm reading from
a press release. Australian Paralympic and leadership advocate Matthew Levy
(02:37):
OAM has launched two concise and impactful guides designed to
inspire leaders and foster more inclusive workplaces. Now we actually
have said Matthew Levy on the line with us. Hello,
Matthew or Matt? Hey.
S5 (02:53):
Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. It's really
great to be part of it again.
S2 (02:57):
We haven't spoken for quite some time. It's been almost, well,
just over three years. The last time we spoke was Tokyo. Um,
can you cast your mind back that far, or is
it all sort of gone off in a in a
fog of, um, you know, former athlete, um, dreams?
S5 (03:14):
Uh, yeah, definitely a long time ago. But, uh, that
was my last Paralympic Games, uh, in Tokyo during Covid.
So it was interesting times, but, uh, yeah, it was
really exciting event. Uh, Tokyo Paralympic Games, um, did really well. Um,
won a gold, uh, bronze in my events and yeah,
(03:37):
I think I saw probably about another 12 months after that, uh,
and finished off at the Commonwealth Games, uh, in 2022, uh,
in Birmingham. Uh, so, yeah, been a little while, um,
since Tokyo, but, um, yeah, certainly a lot has happened, uh,
with the, the two e-books and Extend moving states and, um,
(04:01):
being on a couple of boards, uh, and, um, bits
and pieces in, in, uh, personal life as well. So, yeah,
it's certainly been an exciting 4 or 3 and a
bit years. Um, since then.
S2 (04:13):
It's, it's been a funny, funny, um, um, Paralympic cycle,
hasn't it? Because, uh, usually you get the four years, but, uh,
we've now had the three years, and I always thought
that the time passed so slowly and you'd always seem
to find so, so quickly as well. So. So the
Commonwealth Games was your last event, and, uh, how did
you go there?
S5 (04:32):
Yeah, really? Well, I won gold in the 50m freestyle
and yeah, it was it was a bit of a
surreal experience. Um, Birmingham uh, in 2022. And yeah, it
was it was an exciting event. Um, a really good
event from an occlusion perspective because we had, um, Paralympians
(04:54):
and Olympians in the same event.
S2 (04:56):
That's what's been the find the difference with with the Commonwealth,
hasn't it, is that you do get to, to intermingle
a bit more with the your able bodied athletes. I
mean I remember from my time and yes, I used
to train alongside a lot of them, but uh, never
the twain should meet if it came to competitions, whereas
the Commonwealths are just a little bit different.
S5 (05:15):
Yeah. Um, there was a there's a few events scattered
throughout the Commonwealth Games that have Paralympians as a part
of it, which is really great. Um, obviously it's not
a fully inclusive games. Um, you don't have the thousands
and 2000 people that the Paralympics has, but, um, yeah.
(05:35):
You lucky, lucky enough to go to 2018, uh, Gold
Coast games and, um, Birmingham as well. So yeah, it's
really exciting to be part of that. And, um, to end, um,
my swimming career, um, at Birmingham and at the Commonwealth
Games was pretty exciting as well.
S6 (05:54):
To.
S5 (05:55):
Be part of that, uh, integrated event.
S2 (05:57):
When did the decision come to retire? Um, was it
something that was forced on you, or was it something
that we did? Something clicked and say, no, I'm not
doing this anymore.
S5 (06:05):
Uh, yeah. Probably more the click than anything else. Uh,
I think I got to a point where I'd done
everything that I wanted to do. I had achieved everything
I wanted to achieve. I wasn't really getting any faster. Um,
I was trying to, but not not to be. Uh,
and I think in a sport like swimming, you need
(06:26):
to keep improving. You need to keep getting faster to
continue to one make teams and two do well at
international events. And, um, yeah, it just got to a
point where, um, I was working full time. I was training, uh,
full time as well. So, um, I couldn't really do both. Um,
I was getting close to the, I think I was 35. Um,
(06:47):
36 years of age. So not young. And, um. Yeah,
he kind of had to make had to make that decision,
like for myself and personal growth to, um, whether I
throw in the towel, so to speak. And yeah, you
need to, uh, progress my corporate career because it got
to a point. I couldn't do both.
S2 (07:06):
Would you be tempted to ever come back again?
S5 (07:09):
No. Uh. Definitely not. I think, um, I've done my time. Um,
I enjoyed what I was doing when I was doing it, and, um. Yeah,
I definitely do advisory roles. Board roles, um, administration type stuff. But, um, yeah,
to actually compete, I'm certainly happy doing 3 or 4
(07:30):
times a week and doing just okay, and then getting
out and, um, enjoying myself as opposed to slogging it
out and doing 4 or 5km each, each session twice
a day.
S2 (07:40):
People on the outside don't really understand the degree of
commitment that it comes down to, do they? I mean,
it's a case of you really have to plan your
entire week around training, and that's pretty much the entire
year round. You might get lucky to have two weeks off,
but otherwise it is very much a full time job.
S5 (07:58):
Yeah, definitely. It's definitely a full time job. Uh, summer winter,
autumn spring. Um, and all the months in between. Yeah.
You train four hours a day, upwards of five kilometres
a session, and then you try and fit in study
or maybe a part time or casual job in between. So, yeah,
(08:19):
it's very, very full on. I guess it's good preparation
for having a family and that kind of stuff as well,
because that's always full on as well. Um, but um, yeah,
it's definitely a different kind of, um, business.
S2 (08:32):
What I've always found the most useful thing that I've
taken out of a sporting career is that the thing
that the first thing you learn when you have made
it in inverted commas, is that there's always an extra
gear that you can rely on. So things are going
a bit average, and then all of a all of
a sudden the extra gear kicks into place. And I
found that so useful in other careers, like what I'm
(08:55):
doing now and also in the IT career, is that
when you run out of ideas, when things don't seem
to be going right, all of a sudden this extra
gear comes into place. I mean, have you found the
same thing?
S5 (09:06):
Yeah, definitely. I think when you get in the swing
of things, there's definitely other things that you could think
about and other avenues that you can, uh, tap into,
whether it's in sport or in business or in personal.
I think it's always about making the most of the opportunities.
And I think that's what we as athletes or former
athletes do well, is not look at something straight down
(09:28):
the line and say that this is what it is,
have a look at it from different angles to kind
of make it and glean what we want to get
from it. Um, to the best of our ability. And
I think, yeah, it's no different in anything else that
we do. It's I think the athlete instinct comes out, um,
to play in a lot of other things that we do.
And I think not not having, uh, that lifestyle anymore
(09:50):
doesn't mean you can't use those skills. And, um, I
think a lot of things that we do is transferable
from the sport to other avenues. It's just a matter
of finding out how.
S2 (10:01):
Indeed it's a case of either work around or plow through.
That's what I've usually found anyway, with with most things.
So let's fast forward a couple of years now and
the Paralympic team are on their way to Paris. Was
there any any particular feeling that you had when, um,
the game started, did you sort of feel like you
were missing out on anything, or was was it sort
(10:23):
of more a feeling of relief? Oh, thank God I'm
not involved in this anymore.
S5 (10:27):
I think I missed the travel. Uh, I missed the
trips away and the the, um, opportunity to go to
different countries, but, um, I think I yeah, it got
to a point where, yeah, I was really excited to
watch them on TV for a change and watch What
Australia could do against the rest of the world. Um,
(10:49):
whatever sport it was. And, um, yeah, just I think
the feeling of excitement more than anything else to really
kind of see what, um, Australia could produce, um, was
really the, the overall feeling that I had.
S2 (11:03):
Um, so just to remind the listeners, uh, there you are,
actually legally blind. You did not compete as a blind
athlete because you, um, have a physical, um, classification and
a physical condition. Can you remind us what that is?
S5 (11:17):
Yeah, sure. Um, so I was born, um, at 25 weeks. Uh,
I had a bleed on the brain, which caused, uh,
cerebral palsy, uh, which is a neurological condition which basically
affects my awful limbs. Uh, so walking upstairs, diving off blocks,
brushing teeth, unscrewing bottles, that kind of stuff isn't easy.
(11:39):
And then, yeah, as a consequence of being born early, um,
I also, um, became vision impaired due to lack of
oxygen at first. So for me, I can see. I
guess it's tunnel vision, essentially. So I've got no peripheral vision. Um,
I can see about two meters or so centrally. So, yeah,
not a great deal of sight, but not, not not
(12:02):
that limiting either. So yeah, make do with what I've got.
S2 (12:05):
Well, so you've got, uh, a mixture of things though.
So in some ways, I mean, yeah, we, we view
life from a low vision and blind point of view, but, um,
you can, uh, view life from a cerebral palsy point
of view as well, which, uh, is that a benefit
or is that a, uh, a, you know, a hassle or.
I mean, how do you feel about your lot in
(12:26):
life as far as that goes?
S5 (12:27):
I never really thought about it. Uh, I think it
is what it is. And I guess you make do
with what you've got. I think, yeah, some things aren't easy. Um, like,
the swimming side of things isn't the easiest. Um, trying
to coordinate your arms and legs when they when they
weren't really coordinate, and then trying to see where the
wall is isn't easy. Um, and then, yeah, um, flip
(12:49):
side of it as well, trying to walk upstairs when
you can't really see the stairs, but you can't really
grip grip what you're doing either. So yeah, it's a
bit of a double edged sword, but, um, yeah, you
make do with what you've got. And yeah, for me,
it's I'm really never kind of thought about it as
I've got less than anyone else or I've or I'm
worse off or anything like that. It's just what I've
(13:11):
been dealt and, uh. Yeah, just take it as it comes.
S2 (13:15):
So since you've retired, you haven't just sat around and
enjoyed the, um, lack of training, you've actually been rather busy.
What have you been up to since then? Yeah.
S5 (13:25):
So since 2022, I've written two ebooks, uh, on leadership
and culture. So they were to really kind of help
companies and businesses understand inclusion and diversity better and giving
them practical examples to use in their everyday meetings and
(13:48):
everyday life. And yeah, it just worked a lot on
inclusion and diversity in the workplace. Um, and more generally,
to give people a bit more understanding that it's not
just about, uh, a tick box. It's not just about
giving people a job or, or telling people about something.
It's really about making sure that people are adding value
(14:10):
to what they're doing. And that's when I guess, the
e-books came in. I really wanted to kind of show
have a tangible example for people, um, to really kind
of go by, um, if they didn't know what to
look for from a culture or diversity and leadership perspective.
S1 (14:30):
This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (14:35):
You've been rather outspoken as regarding the challenges that face
people like ourselves. So I'm done. Suppose you brought that
outspokenness into these e-books.
S5 (14:47):
Um, I try not to be too outspoken in the books.
It's more about, um, giving, I guess, my perspective, giving
my experience. Um, and people, I guess, can make the
judgment as they will. But it's really about, um, sharing
the lessons that I've learned throughout my sport career, but
also throughout my life in the workplace as someone with
(15:09):
a disability into, uh, a practical book that, uh, you
talked about and that I created, um, a couple of
months ago. But yeah, certainly more so using my experience
and my lessons than trying to enforce anything on anyone. Um,
I think everyone can make their own judgment. It's just
about using some of my knowledge and my experience, um,
(15:33):
to better everyone else.
S2 (15:34):
So what would be the, uh, target audience of these guides.
S5 (15:38):
I think anyone that wants to know more about diversity
and inclusion and culture, I think we all want to
know more. We all want to do better. I think
whether it's a workplace, whether it's a sporting club, whether
it's a community meeting, I think we all do things well.
We all do things not so well. And I think, uh,
(15:58):
this book just gives you some more food for thought
and more practical examples to go by. Um, when you're
wanting to have conversations with different people within the community.
S2 (16:10):
The first book that we talked about was on leadership.
Maybe give us a little bit of a potted idea of, uh,
what we would have to look forward to if we're
reading this.
S5 (16:18):
Yeah, not to give too much away, but, uh, basically
it's about what leadership is and what we can do
as leaders of organizations, of leaders of community to be
more inclusive, to be more diverse. And it goes into
detail about what we can do and some actions we
(16:42):
can put into place to have more leadership within, um,
the things that we do. I mean.
S2 (16:48):
One of the problems I found in the workplace really was, yes,
to some degree, you had some good leaders who would
ask all the right questions, but it was the people
that didn't ask the questions that were often the problem
because they were set in their ways and they saw
a disability as a hindrance more than anything else. And
(17:08):
they didn't see the potential that, again, people like ourselves
can actually give to a workplace and a different perspective
that we can give. So, I mean, is there anything
you think we could do to sort of fix that problem?
I mean, would these, this sort of publication be useful
even for them?
S5 (17:25):
Yeah, no, definitely. I think it'd be useful. It just
gives a different perspective on what we do. And I think, yeah,
it's difficult because, um, I think what you just relayed
is the problem that we have in society and more
and more globally around including anyone. And I think it's
(17:47):
really the people that I guess don't ask the questions
that are, I guess, potentially the problem. But you can't
force people to want to change if they don't want
to change. And I think it's really about continuing to
have that conversation and just be positive about what we
can do and how we can kind of move the
dial and, um, yeah, just hope, um, that people will
(18:11):
come to their senses, uh, eventually. And yeah, it's a difficult,
difficult topic. And, um, I think part of the books
and part of what I'm trying to do is really
kind of raise awareness of these topics and making sure
that we are moving in a forward direction and in
12 months time. Uh, when I'm talking to you on
(18:35):
the show, um, hopefully we're not talking about the same thing.
S2 (18:38):
Well, yeah, I did say to you. Previously on er.
I did notice that, uh, you did spend a bit
of time on the board of Blind Sports Australia, and
that is, um, a fascinating organisation in the fact that
quite often things don't move very quickly over there. You
left recently. Was there a particular reason for that or. Um. Uh,
(18:59):
did did you feel like you'd, uh, achieved all you
had to, um, with, uh, national blind sports?
S5 (19:05):
Yeah, I think it was more, uh, about right time.
Right place. I think, uh, for me, I spent three,
3 or 3 and a half years on the on
the board. We'd achieved a lot. Um, it was going
through a lot of change at the time, and, um. Yeah,
I just felt that I had done as much as
(19:25):
I can. And, uh, at that particular time, I I'm
getting married. I just moved states. Um, so a lot
of other stuff personally was going on. So I felt
it was like kind of the right time to kind
of step away for that type of a board. And, um, yeah,
I really enjoyed my time, learned a lot of skills
and gained a lot of new friends and, um, learn
(19:48):
a lot.
S7 (19:49):
My thing is.
S5 (19:50):
I felt this.
S7 (19:51):
Time.
S2 (19:51):
Yeah, my my thing is, uh, I mean, I've been
involved with a number of different, um, boards, both on
the state level and a national level. And there reaches
a point, I think, as a retired athlete, you might
understand this, where you get all sported out of things,
where you think.
S7 (20:06):
My God, yeah.
S2 (20:06):
I've done this for however long in my life, and
I think I'll just give it a rest for a
little while and suddenly you're sort of on a board
and it's like I'm doing the same stuff, just on
a different side. I'm presuming you feel roughly the same way.
S7 (20:20):
Yeah, definitely.
S5 (20:21):
I think, yeah, sometimes you need to kind of take
a step back to take a step forward. And, um,
I think for me sometimes that that's the best thing,
because you can have a look with, um, eyes wide
open instead of rosy colored glasses. And, uh, I think, yeah,
it's important to be the influence of change, not the
(20:41):
hindrance of it. And, um, you don't want to be
that one person that is set in their ways, like
you were saying about your, your diversity example. But, um,
you want to be able to continue to grow and evolve.
And I think part of that is stepping back from
things that you really enjoy, um, and things that you
might have done for a long time, um, to be
(21:04):
able to step forward.
S2 (21:05):
Yeah, indeed. So, um, I'll remind our listeners what Blind
Sports Australia is. The old Blind Sports Federation. It is
the national peak body that looks after sport for people
with a vision impairment. It used to have a much
larger role. It used to organise national championships and select teams.
It's now essentially just the go to for sports like
(21:26):
goalball and others which don't have a generic sporting body.
What do you feel you achieved during your period there? Um,
is it something you can talk about?
S5 (21:36):
I think for me, I feel I gave a more
inclusive way of thinking in an inclusive way of talking.
I think for me, I was the only athlete on
the board and the only person with a vision impairment
or that were blind. So, um, I guess from my
lived experience perspective, um, and that sport perspective, I had
(21:59):
a lot to offer. And I think, yeah, my perspective
and my understanding of topics and of, um, issues was
probably slightly different to the average. And I guess I
had kind of backed that up with some business acronym
and know how, which was good. But yeah, to have
I guess that lived experience perspective was really good and
(22:19):
really pivotal. And yeah, I felt that that kind of
helped shape some of the decisions that we made through
the board and and into the executive and, um, yeah, hopefully, uh,
onwards and upwards for the, the executive and the, uh,
the board, um, Blind Sports Australia and yeah, definitely really
enjoyed my time and uh, definitely learned a lot.
S2 (22:42):
So we'll move on to the second guidebook. So can
you give us any insights without giving away too many?
I mean, we obviously we want people to read these things.
S5 (22:51):
Yeah. So the first one I think was the the
lazy one and the second one remind me the title
of that one. That was um.
S2 (22:58):
Yeah. Culture inclusive.
S7 (22:59):
Inclusive.
S5 (22:59):
Culture, culture inclusiveness. Yeah. So I think with this one
it's um, more about ingraining the culture and ingraining the
belief in the organisation. And it just gives, um, I guess,
a bit of experience and understanding from things that I've
learned throughout my life, um, and things that I've learned throughout, uh,
(23:23):
my sport that I've deemed as good culture and, um,
good practice. I think a lot of organizations and sporting
clubs and community groups, we all think that we're doing
things well and think we're doing things a certain way.
And I think it's looking at it from that high
performance lens and looking at it from a lens of,
(23:45):
are we giving that, um, 1%, as are we continually
giving that 100% to what we're doing? And are we
bringing people, I guess, along that journey? And I think
the book really kind of talks to culture and inclusion, but, um,
kind of making sure that everyone kind of is on
that journey and making sure that we are continuing to
(24:08):
have that narrative of, um, there's no I in team
and making sure that we are continuing to breed good
culture through Teamwork and team effort, and I think the
books pretty much go hand in hand. But, um, they
both kind of tell a slightly different story. But, um,
I think reading both of them is definitely pivotal to
(24:31):
kind of understanding the whole message. But, um, yeah, if
you don't have time, then, um, one is still good
to read then. None. Um, but two two is a
lot better to read than than, um than just one. Two.
S2 (24:45):
What I found interesting about what you're talking about with, um, changing, um, well,
looking at the culture of a workplace or a training
environment is sometimes it's us ourselves that can be the, uh,
the barrier to somebody else, um, succeeding. So we can
be convinced that, yes, we are inclusive and we are
doing a really great job of, uh, being inclusive. And
(25:07):
yet there's something we haven't thought about, and I think
it pays to keep listening as far as that kind
of thing goes, because you never know, your inclusivity that
suits you might not suit somebody else.
S5 (25:18):
Yeah, definitely.
S7 (25:18):
I think it's.
S5 (25:19):
Really about like listening to your colleagues, listening to people
as well as, um, I guess talking the talk as well.
I think we are all in this world together. We
are all human beings at the end of the day.
So it's just really about making sure that we're listening
to each other to continue to move forward. And yeah,
(25:40):
that's definitely what I guess the books are trying to
kind of articulate in some way, shape or form. And yeah,
it's it's definitely important to be on the journey together.
S2 (25:50):
So before we go so apart from uh, and only
swing occasionally and, uh, writing e-books, what is your, um,
week consisting of at the moment? I mean, how busy
are you?
S7 (26:02):
Yeah.
S5 (26:02):
So I have, um, I got married about a year
and a half ago, so, um, I've got that.
S7 (26:07):
And that's an adventure in itself.
S5 (26:09):
Yeah, adventure and a half. And then we've got a, uh,
just turned one. Um, a little boy, Percy. So he's, um, uh,
keeping us on our toes. And apart from that, um,
I do some consulting work, um, around around diversity and
inclusion and, um, talk to great people like yourself. Uh,
so pretty busy.
S2 (26:31):
So if people want to, uh, read these ebooks, um,
how do we get a hold of them?
S5 (26:36):
Yeah. So they're on my website, uh, which is what
Matt Levy. Com.au. And, um, yeah, they can, uh, purchase
them from my website and, um, yeah, view them from.
S2 (26:51):
There as well. Matt Levy, thank you for joining us today.
It has been an awful lot of fun, and it's
nice to see that the world doesn't keep, uh, doesn't
stand still for yourself. We look forward to hearing from
you in the future.
S5 (27:04):
Laura, thanks so much for having me as part of
the show. And, um, uh, hopefully the listeners enjoy the books.
S7 (27:11):
That's a wrap for this week.
S2 (27:12):
A big thank you once more to Matt Levy.
S3 (27:15):
And thank you for listening. As usual, you can find
this episode on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (27:23):
Next week, have you been refused access to a rideshare
or taxi because of your guide dog?
S3 (27:28):
I certainly am.
S2 (27:29):
We look at the experiences of some of our friends,
and also look at what one taxi company is doing
to try and combat the problem.
S3 (27:36):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show whether you have any experience with the
issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or
whether you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who is dealing with something similar.
S2 (27:51):
You can email us Studio One at Vision Australia. That's
studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (27:57):
Or you can look us up on social media, whether
that be Facebook, Instagram or just search for VA Radio Network.
Bye for now.
S1 (28:06):
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community
Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
This is studio one on Vision Australia radio.
S2 (00:16):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:17):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:19):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:24):
On this week's show.
S2 (00:26):
We're joined by an old friend of the show, Matt
Levy talks about his retirement from Paralympic sport, what he
has been doing since then, and the two e-books he
has released that cover leadership and inclusion.
S3 (00:39):
As we always say, please do get in touch with
the show whether you have any experience with the issues
covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or if
you think there's something we should be talking about. You
never know. Your story and insight may help someone who's
dealing with something similar.
S2 (00:54):
Please email us studio one at Vision Australia. That's studio
number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:00):
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our
Facebook page. Just go to facebook.com slash Viva Radio network.
S2 (01:08):
So. Hello, Lizzie.
S3 (01:09):
Hello, Sam. How are we today?
S2 (01:10):
I'm pretty good, but, um, I was sort of waiting
for someone to join me at the, uh, interview that
I did yesterday, and, uh, she didn't turn up. Um,
I'm a bit disappointed.
S4 (01:21):
I feel like some sort of teenage wallflower.
S2 (01:22):
What happened? Oh, well, I.
S3 (01:23):
Didn't stand you up on purpose, Sam. Um, my computer
completely froze. So, you know, I could log in, and
as soon as I logged in, my screen reader just
stopped working, and I had no one there to help
me at the time. So I am very sorry I
didn't stand you up on purpose. Can you forgive me?
Can you ever forgive me?
S2 (01:40):
I will try. It actually goes to show that no
matter how many, uh, adaptations we make, when the adaptation
itself stops working, then everything else stops working as well,
doesn't it?
S3 (01:52):
It does, it does. And it's especially worse off when
you don't have any sighted assistance.
S2 (01:57):
Exactly. I mean, it's like the story I heard with, um,
all these fantastic password managers that we've got now. And
the trouble is, if you lose the password to your
password manager.
S3 (02:07):
Yeah. Um, I've never had that happen to me, but
I could imagine the result could be rather catastrophic.
S2 (02:14):
But this interview actually wasn't catastrophic. So let us jump
in and chat to Matt. Do you mind reading from
the headlines Paralympic Champions Mission to empower leaders and build
teams that thrive and embrace inclusion? Yes, I'm reading from
a press release. Australian Paralympic and leadership advocate Matthew Levy
(02:37):
OAM has launched two concise and impactful guides designed to
inspire leaders and foster more inclusive workplaces. Now we actually
have said Matthew Levy on the line with us. Hello,
Matthew or Matt? Hey.
S5 (02:53):
Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. It's really
great to be part of it again.
S2 (02:57):
We haven't spoken for quite some time. It's been almost, well,
just over three years. The last time we spoke was Tokyo. Um,
can you cast your mind back that far, or is
it all sort of gone off in a in a
fog of, um, you know, former athlete, um, dreams?
S5 (03:14):
Uh, yeah, definitely a long time ago. But, uh, that
was my last Paralympic Games, uh, in Tokyo during Covid.
So it was interesting times, but, uh, yeah, it was
really exciting event. Uh, Tokyo Paralympic Games, um, did really well. Um,
won a gold, uh, bronze in my events and yeah,
(03:37):
I think I saw probably about another 12 months after that, uh,
and finished off at the Commonwealth Games, uh, in 2022, uh,
in Birmingham. Uh, so, yeah, been a little while, um,
since Tokyo, but, um, yeah, certainly a lot has happened, uh,
with the, the two e-books and Extend moving states and, um,
(04:01):
being on a couple of boards, uh, and, um, bits
and pieces in, in, uh, personal life as well. So, yeah,
it's certainly been an exciting 4 or 3 and a
bit years. Um, since then.
S2 (04:13):
It's, it's been a funny, funny, um, um, Paralympic cycle,
hasn't it? Because, uh, usually you get the four years, but, uh,
we've now had the three years, and I always thought
that the time passed so slowly and you'd always seem
to find so, so quickly as well. So. So the
Commonwealth Games was your last event, and, uh, how did
you go there?
S5 (04:32):
Yeah, really? Well, I won gold in the 50m freestyle
and yeah, it was it was a bit of a
surreal experience. Um, Birmingham uh, in 2022. And yeah, it
was it was an exciting event. Um, a really good
event from an occlusion perspective because we had, um, Paralympians
(04:54):
and Olympians in the same event.
S2 (04:56):
That's what's been the find the difference with with the Commonwealth,
hasn't it, is that you do get to, to intermingle
a bit more with the your able bodied athletes. I
mean I remember from my time and yes, I used
to train alongside a lot of them, but uh, never
the twain should meet if it came to competitions, whereas
the Commonwealths are just a little bit different.
S5 (05:15):
Yeah. Um, there was a there's a few events scattered
throughout the Commonwealth Games that have Paralympians as a part
of it, which is really great. Um, obviously it's not
a fully inclusive games. Um, you don't have the thousands
and 2000 people that the Paralympics has, but, um, yeah.
(05:35):
You lucky, lucky enough to go to 2018, uh, Gold
Coast games and, um, Birmingham as well. So yeah, it's
really exciting to be part of that. And, um, to end, um,
my swimming career, um, at Birmingham and at the Commonwealth
Games was pretty exciting as well.
S6 (05:54):
To.
S5 (05:55):
Be part of that, uh, integrated event.
S2 (05:57):
When did the decision come to retire? Um, was it
something that was forced on you, or was it something
that we did? Something clicked and say, no, I'm not
doing this anymore.
S5 (06:05):
Uh, yeah. Probably more the click than anything else. Uh,
I think I got to a point where I'd done
everything that I wanted to do. I had achieved everything
I wanted to achieve. I wasn't really getting any faster. Um,
I was trying to, but not not to be. Uh,
and I think in a sport like swimming, you need
(06:26):
to keep improving. You need to keep getting faster to
continue to one make teams and two do well at
international events. And, um, yeah, it just got to a
point where, um, I was working full time. I was training, uh,
full time as well. So, um, I couldn't really do both. Um,
I was getting close to the, I think I was 35. Um,
(06:47):
36 years of age. So not young. And, um. Yeah,
he kind of had to make had to make that decision,
like for myself and personal growth to, um, whether I
throw in the towel, so to speak. And yeah, you
need to, uh, progress my corporate career because it got
to a point. I couldn't do both.
S2 (07:06):
Would you be tempted to ever come back again?
S5 (07:09):
No. Uh. Definitely not. I think, um, I've done my time. Um,
I enjoyed what I was doing when I was doing it, and, um. Yeah,
I definitely do advisory roles. Board roles, um, administration type stuff. But, um, yeah,
to actually compete, I'm certainly happy doing 3 or 4
(07:30):
times a week and doing just okay, and then getting
out and, um, enjoying myself as opposed to slogging it
out and doing 4 or 5km each, each session twice
a day.
S2 (07:40):
People on the outside don't really understand the degree of
commitment that it comes down to, do they? I mean,
it's a case of you really have to plan your
entire week around training, and that's pretty much the entire
year round. You might get lucky to have two weeks off,
but otherwise it is very much a full time job.
S5 (07:58):
Yeah, definitely. It's definitely a full time job. Uh, summer winter,
autumn spring. Um, and all the months in between. Yeah.
You train four hours a day, upwards of five kilometres
a session, and then you try and fit in study
or maybe a part time or casual job in between. So, yeah,
(08:19):
it's very, very full on. I guess it's good preparation
for having a family and that kind of stuff as well,
because that's always full on as well. Um, but um, yeah,
it's definitely a different kind of, um, business.
S2 (08:32):
What I've always found the most useful thing that I've
taken out of a sporting career is that the thing
that the first thing you learn when you have made
it in inverted commas, is that there's always an extra
gear that you can rely on. So things are going
a bit average, and then all of a all of
a sudden the extra gear kicks into place. And I
found that so useful in other careers, like what I'm
(08:55):
doing now and also in the IT career, is that
when you run out of ideas, when things don't seem
to be going right, all of a sudden this extra
gear comes into place. I mean, have you found the
same thing?
S5 (09:06):
Yeah, definitely. I think when you get in the swing
of things, there's definitely other things that you could think
about and other avenues that you can, uh, tap into,
whether it's in sport or in business or in personal.
I think it's always about making the most of the opportunities.
And I think that's what we as athletes or former
athletes do well, is not look at something straight down
(09:28):
the line and say that this is what it is,
have a look at it from different angles to kind
of make it and glean what we want to get
from it. Um, to the best of our ability. And
I think, yeah, it's no different in anything else that
we do. It's I think the athlete instinct comes out, um,
to play in a lot of other things that we do.
And I think not not having, uh, that lifestyle anymore
(09:50):
doesn't mean you can't use those skills. And, um, I
think a lot of things that we do is transferable
from the sport to other avenues. It's just a matter
of finding out how.
S2 (10:01):
Indeed it's a case of either work around or plow through.
That's what I've usually found anyway, with with most things.
So let's fast forward a couple of years now and
the Paralympic team are on their way to Paris. Was
there any any particular feeling that you had when, um,
the game started, did you sort of feel like you
were missing out on anything, or was was it sort
(10:23):
of more a feeling of relief? Oh, thank God I'm
not involved in this anymore.
S5 (10:27):
I think I missed the travel. Uh, I missed the
trips away and the the, um, opportunity to go to
different countries, but, um, I think I yeah, it got
to a point where, yeah, I was really excited to
watch them on TV for a change and watch What
Australia could do against the rest of the world. Um,
(10:49):
whatever sport it was. And, um, yeah, just I think
the feeling of excitement more than anything else to really
kind of see what, um, Australia could produce, um, was
really the, the overall feeling that I had.
S2 (11:03):
Um, so just to remind the listeners, uh, there you are,
actually legally blind. You did not compete as a blind
athlete because you, um, have a physical, um, classification and
a physical condition. Can you remind us what that is?
S5 (11:17):
Yeah, sure. Um, so I was born, um, at 25 weeks. Uh,
I had a bleed on the brain, which caused, uh,
cerebral palsy, uh, which is a neurological condition which basically
affects my awful limbs. Uh, so walking upstairs, diving off blocks,
brushing teeth, unscrewing bottles, that kind of stuff isn't easy.
(11:39):
And then, yeah, as a consequence of being born early, um,
I also, um, became vision impaired due to lack of
oxygen at first. So for me, I can see. I
guess it's tunnel vision, essentially. So I've got no peripheral vision. Um,
I can see about two meters or so centrally. So, yeah,
not a great deal of sight, but not, not not
(12:02):
that limiting either. So yeah, make do with what I've got.
S2 (12:05):
Well, so you've got, uh, a mixture of things though.
So in some ways, I mean, yeah, we, we view
life from a low vision and blind point of view, but, um,
you can, uh, view life from a cerebral palsy point
of view as well, which, uh, is that a benefit
or is that a, uh, a, you know, a hassle or.
I mean, how do you feel about your lot in
(12:26):
life as far as that goes?
S5 (12:27):
I never really thought about it. Uh, I think it
is what it is. And I guess you make do
with what you've got. I think, yeah, some things aren't easy. Um, like,
the swimming side of things isn't the easiest. Um, trying
to coordinate your arms and legs when they when they
weren't really coordinate, and then trying to see where the
wall is isn't easy. Um, and then, yeah, um, flip
(12:49):
side of it as well, trying to walk upstairs when
you can't really see the stairs, but you can't really
grip grip what you're doing either. So yeah, it's a
bit of a double edged sword, but, um, yeah, you
make do with what you've got. And yeah, for me,
it's I'm really never kind of thought about it as
I've got less than anyone else or I've or I'm
worse off or anything like that. It's just what I've
(13:11):
been dealt and, uh. Yeah, just take it as it comes.
S2 (13:15):
So since you've retired, you haven't just sat around and
enjoyed the, um, lack of training, you've actually been rather busy.
What have you been up to since then? Yeah.
S5 (13:25):
So since 2022, I've written two ebooks, uh, on leadership
and culture. So they were to really kind of help
companies and businesses understand inclusion and diversity better and giving
them practical examples to use in their everyday meetings and
(13:48):
everyday life. And yeah, it just worked a lot on
inclusion and diversity in the workplace. Um, and more generally,
to give people a bit more understanding that it's not
just about, uh, a tick box. It's not just about
giving people a job or, or telling people about something.
It's really about making sure that people are adding value
(14:10):
to what they're doing. And that's when I guess, the
e-books came in. I really wanted to kind of show
have a tangible example for people, um, to really kind
of go by, um, if they didn't know what to
look for from a culture or diversity and leadership perspective.
S1 (14:30):
This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (14:35):
You've been rather outspoken as regarding the challenges that face
people like ourselves. So I'm done. Suppose you brought that
outspokenness into these e-books.
S5 (14:47):
Um, I try not to be too outspoken in the books.
It's more about, um, giving, I guess, my perspective, giving
my experience. Um, and people, I guess, can make the
judgment as they will. But it's really about, um, sharing
the lessons that I've learned throughout my sport career, but
also throughout my life in the workplace as someone with
(15:09):
a disability into, uh, a practical book that, uh, you
talked about and that I created, um, a couple of
months ago. But yeah, certainly more so using my experience
and my lessons than trying to enforce anything on anyone. Um,
I think everyone can make their own judgment. It's just
about using some of my knowledge and my experience, um,
(15:33):
to better everyone else.
S2 (15:34):
So what would be the, uh, target audience of these guides.
S5 (15:38):
I think anyone that wants to know more about diversity
and inclusion and culture, I think we all want to
know more. We all want to do better. I think
whether it's a workplace, whether it's a sporting club, whether
it's a community meeting, I think we all do things well.
We all do things not so well. And I think, uh,
(15:58):
this book just gives you some more food for thought
and more practical examples to go by. Um, when you're
wanting to have conversations with different people within the community.
S2 (16:10):
The first book that we talked about was on leadership.
Maybe give us a little bit of a potted idea of, uh,
what we would have to look forward to if we're
reading this.
S5 (16:18):
Yeah, not to give too much away, but, uh, basically
it's about what leadership is and what we can do
as leaders of organizations, of leaders of community to be
more inclusive, to be more diverse. And it goes into
detail about what we can do and some actions we
(16:42):
can put into place to have more leadership within, um,
the things that we do. I mean.
S2 (16:48):
One of the problems I found in the workplace really was, yes,
to some degree, you had some good leaders who would
ask all the right questions, but it was the people
that didn't ask the questions that were often the problem
because they were set in their ways and they saw
a disability as a hindrance more than anything else. And
(17:08):
they didn't see the potential that, again, people like ourselves
can actually give to a workplace and a different perspective
that we can give. So, I mean, is there anything
you think we could do to sort of fix that problem?
I mean, would these, this sort of publication be useful
even for them?
S5 (17:25):
Yeah, no, definitely. I think it'd be useful. It just
gives a different perspective on what we do. And I think, yeah,
it's difficult because, um, I think what you just relayed
is the problem that we have in society and more
and more globally around including anyone. And I think it's
(17:47):
really the people that I guess don't ask the questions
that are, I guess, potentially the problem. But you can't
force people to want to change if they don't want
to change. And I think it's really about continuing to
have that conversation and just be positive about what we
can do and how we can kind of move the
dial and, um, yeah, just hope, um, that people will
(18:11):
come to their senses, uh, eventually. And yeah, it's a difficult,
difficult topic. And, um, I think part of the books
and part of what I'm trying to do is really
kind of raise awareness of these topics and making sure
that we are moving in a forward direction and in
12 months time. Uh, when I'm talking to you on
(18:35):
the show, um, hopefully we're not talking about the same thing.
S2 (18:38):
Well, yeah, I did say to you. Previously on er.
I did notice that, uh, you did spend a bit
of time on the board of Blind Sports Australia, and
that is, um, a fascinating organisation in the fact that
quite often things don't move very quickly over there. You
left recently. Was there a particular reason for that or. Um. Uh,
(18:59):
did did you feel like you'd, uh, achieved all you
had to, um, with, uh, national blind sports?
S5 (19:05):
Yeah, I think it was more, uh, about right time.
Right place. I think, uh, for me, I spent three,
3 or 3 and a half years on the on
the board. We'd achieved a lot. Um, it was going
through a lot of change at the time, and, um. Yeah,
I just felt that I had done as much as
(19:25):
I can. And, uh, at that particular time, I I'm
getting married. I just moved states. Um, so a lot
of other stuff personally was going on. So I felt
it was like kind of the right time to kind
of step away for that type of a board. And, um, yeah,
I really enjoyed my time, learned a lot of skills
and gained a lot of new friends and, um, learn
(19:48):
a lot.
S7 (19:49):
My thing is.
S5 (19:50):
I felt this.
S7 (19:51):
Time.
S2 (19:51):
Yeah, my my thing is, uh, I mean, I've been
involved with a number of different, um, boards, both on
the state level and a national level. And there reaches
a point, I think, as a retired athlete, you might
understand this, where you get all sported out of things,
where you think.
S7 (20:06):
My God, yeah.
S2 (20:06):
I've done this for however long in my life, and
I think I'll just give it a rest for a
little while and suddenly you're sort of on a board
and it's like I'm doing the same stuff, just on
a different side. I'm presuming you feel roughly the same way.
S7 (20:20):
Yeah, definitely.
S5 (20:21):
I think, yeah, sometimes you need to kind of take
a step back to take a step forward. And, um,
I think for me sometimes that that's the best thing,
because you can have a look with, um, eyes wide
open instead of rosy colored glasses. And, uh, I think, yeah,
it's important to be the influence of change, not the
(20:41):
hindrance of it. And, um, you don't want to be
that one person that is set in their ways, like
you were saying about your, your diversity example. But, um,
you want to be able to continue to grow and evolve.
And I think part of that is stepping back from
things that you really enjoy, um, and things that you
might have done for a long time, um, to be
(21:04):
able to step forward.
S2 (21:05):
Yeah, indeed. So, um, I'll remind our listeners what Blind
Sports Australia is. The old Blind Sports Federation. It is
the national peak body that looks after sport for people
with a vision impairment. It used to have a much
larger role. It used to organise national championships and select teams.
It's now essentially just the go to for sports like
(21:26):
goalball and others which don't have a generic sporting body.
What do you feel you achieved during your period there? Um,
is it something you can talk about?
S5 (21:36):
I think for me, I feel I gave a more
inclusive way of thinking in an inclusive way of talking.
I think for me, I was the only athlete on
the board and the only person with a vision impairment
or that were blind. So, um, I guess from my
lived experience perspective, um, and that sport perspective, I had
(21:59):
a lot to offer. And I think, yeah, my perspective
and my understanding of topics and of, um, issues was
probably slightly different to the average. And I guess I
had kind of backed that up with some business acronym
and know how, which was good. But yeah, to have
I guess that lived experience perspective was really good and
(22:19):
really pivotal. And yeah, I felt that that kind of
helped shape some of the decisions that we made through
the board and and into the executive and, um, yeah, hopefully, uh,
onwards and upwards for the, the executive and the, uh,
the board, um, Blind Sports Australia and yeah, definitely really
enjoyed my time and uh, definitely learned a lot.
S2 (22:42):
So we'll move on to the second guidebook. So can
you give us any insights without giving away too many?
I mean, we obviously we want people to read these things.
S5 (22:51):
Yeah. So the first one I think was the the
lazy one and the second one remind me the title
of that one. That was um.
S2 (22:58):
Yeah. Culture inclusive.
S7 (22:59):
Inclusive.
S5 (22:59):
Culture, culture inclusiveness. Yeah. So I think with this one
it's um, more about ingraining the culture and ingraining the
belief in the organisation. And it just gives, um, I guess,
a bit of experience and understanding from things that I've
learned throughout my life, um, and things that I've learned throughout, uh,
(23:23):
my sport that I've deemed as good culture and, um,
good practice. I think a lot of organizations and sporting
clubs and community groups, we all think that we're doing
things well and think we're doing things a certain way.
And I think it's looking at it from that high
performance lens and looking at it from a lens of,
(23:45):
are we giving that, um, 1%, as are we continually
giving that 100% to what we're doing? And are we
bringing people, I guess, along that journey? And I think
the book really kind of talks to culture and inclusion, but, um,
kind of making sure that everyone kind of is on
that journey and making sure that we are continuing to
(24:08):
have that narrative of, um, there's no I in team
and making sure that we are continuing to breed good
culture through Teamwork and team effort, and I think the
books pretty much go hand in hand. But, um, they
both kind of tell a slightly different story. But, um,
I think reading both of them is definitely pivotal to
(24:31):
kind of understanding the whole message. But, um, yeah, if
you don't have time, then, um, one is still good
to read then. None. Um, but two two is a
lot better to read than than, um than just one. Two.
S2 (24:45):
What I found interesting about what you're talking about with, um, changing, um, well,
looking at the culture of a workplace or a training
environment is sometimes it's us ourselves that can be the, uh,
the barrier to somebody else, um, succeeding. So we can
be convinced that, yes, we are inclusive and we are
doing a really great job of, uh, being inclusive. And
(25:07):
yet there's something we haven't thought about, and I think
it pays to keep listening as far as that kind
of thing goes, because you never know, your inclusivity that
suits you might not suit somebody else.
S5 (25:18):
Yeah, definitely.
S7 (25:18):
I think it's.
S5 (25:19):
Really about like listening to your colleagues, listening to people
as well as, um, I guess talking the talk as well.
I think we are all in this world together. We
are all human beings at the end of the day.
So it's just really about making sure that we're listening
to each other to continue to move forward. And yeah,
(25:40):
that's definitely what I guess the books are trying to
kind of articulate in some way, shape or form. And yeah,
it's it's definitely important to be on the journey together.
S2 (25:50):
So before we go so apart from uh, and only
swing occasionally and, uh, writing e-books, what is your, um,
week consisting of at the moment? I mean, how busy
are you?
S7 (26:02):
Yeah.
S5 (26:02):
So I have, um, I got married about a year
and a half ago, so, um, I've got that.
S7 (26:07):
And that's an adventure in itself.
S5 (26:09):
Yeah, adventure and a half. And then we've got a, uh,
just turned one. Um, a little boy, Percy. So he's, um, uh,
keeping us on our toes. And apart from that, um,
I do some consulting work, um, around around diversity and
inclusion and, um, talk to great people like yourself. Uh,
so pretty busy.
S2 (26:31):
So if people want to, uh, read these ebooks, um,
how do we get a hold of them?
S5 (26:36):
Yeah. So they're on my website, uh, which is what
Matt Levy. Com.au. And, um, yeah, they can, uh, purchase
them from my website and, um, yeah, view them from.
S2 (26:51):
There as well. Matt Levy, thank you for joining us today.
It has been an awful lot of fun, and it's
nice to see that the world doesn't keep, uh, doesn't
stand still for yourself. We look forward to hearing from
you in the future.
S5 (27:04):
Laura, thanks so much for having me as part of
the show. And, um, uh, hopefully the listeners enjoy the books.
S7 (27:11):
That's a wrap for this week.
S2 (27:12):
A big thank you once more to Matt Levy.
S3 (27:15):
And thank you for listening. As usual, you can find
this episode on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (27:23):
Next week, have you been refused access to a rideshare
or taxi because of your guide dog?
S3 (27:28):
I certainly am.
S2 (27:29):
We look at the experiences of some of our friends,
and also look at what one taxi company is doing
to try and combat the problem.
S3 (27:36):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show whether you have any experience with the
issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or
whether you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who is dealing with something similar.
S2 (27:51):
You can email us Studio One at Vision Australia. That's
studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (27:57):
Or you can look us up on social media, whether
that be Facebook, Instagram or just search for VA Radio Network.
Bye for now.
S1 (28:06):
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community
Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!