July 30, 2025 • 32 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
“Mobility: Or, How to find Coffee”
Lizzie and Sam are out on the streets again... well maybe not literally.
The Choir of Angels is asked how they handle mobility – not just the puppy or the stick - but the apps and software available to stop us from getting hopelessly lost.
And we find a startling truth; guide dogs have learned to find coffee!
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
Thank you to: Alex; Maddie; Lily; Josh; Tory; Shaun and Anthony.
This program was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at https://cbf.org.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:13):
This is Studio One with Sam Rickard and Lizzie Eastham
on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:25):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:26):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:27):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:33):
This week we're out on the streets again.
S2 (00:36):
Well, not literally, but we ask a few of our
friends how they handle mobility. Not just the puppy or
the stick, but the apps and the software available to
stop us from getting hopelessly lost.
S3 (00:47):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (01:02):
You can contact us via email Studio one, org that's
studio one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:08):
Org or perhaps you can drop us a note on
the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com.
S2 (01:19):
Hello, Lizzie. Welcome to the depths of winter and despair,
you might say.
S3 (01:24):
Yeah, something like that.
S2 (01:25):
It's been a funny weekend over here in Adelaide. It's
been rainy and cold. I don't know about you, but
I left the house probably for about half an hour
to do some shopping and then went straight home as
soon as possible and, uh, found myself a nice blanket
to crawl under and basically didn't move then for the
rest of the weekend.
S3 (01:45):
Well, Saturday I did much the same, but unfortunately, no.
Yesterday I did have to go out for a good
chunk of the day. Uh, you know, going to church
and being part of the worship band and all that
so I could not avoid the cold, sadly.
S2 (01:58):
Well, um, dear listener, we are not, uh, covering what
we've been advertising because, uh, the people at Blind Citizens
Australia have deigned not to get back to us again. Again?
That's right. So, um, yes, we had a fantastic show
last week where Bill and David gave us the background
(02:20):
of what I think we can all agree is a
worthwhile organisation, and one that has done an awful lot
of really good work. And we were hoping this week
to cover where we go from here, what they are
doing right now and where they plan on going in
the future. But, uh, yes, we haven't heard back from
them and they don't seem to be able to afford
(02:41):
to give us, say, half an hour of their time,
which is a real shame.
S3 (02:44):
Yeah, I was really looking forward to hearing about some
of the current issues that they're tackling. And one of
the things I really wanted to ask or find out
about was how the issues that they are facing today
differ from the ones that they faced at the inception
of the organisation. So, you know, I won't get to
ask that question this week, but that's okay because we
are out and about once again talking about puppies, sticks
(03:08):
and a whole lot of other mobility related stuff.
S2 (03:12):
Exactly. I mean, this is the big thing about our
disability is how do you get out and about? Do
you get out and about sometimes? Yes. People do rely
on the trusty old white stick. And other times we have, um,
just the.
S3 (03:27):
Pretty laili's.
S2 (03:28):
Pretty little guide dogs or whatever. Or in my case,
I tend not to use either. And yes, maybe that's
a that's a conscious decision. We've got a few people
here who will, uh, talk to us about that decision,
and also a couple of little tips and tricks that
they used in order to. Yes. Not end up roaming
the streets hopelessly lost, as it were.
S4 (03:53):
Oh, give me the dog any day of the week. It's.
The independence is so different compared to just having that stick.
I go back to the stick every now and then
when I have to, when she can't come and I'm like,
how did I manage with this beforehand? I will always
take the dog over a cane if I can. Plus,
it's the company. Doesn't matter where you go, you've got company.
S3 (04:13):
Can you describe the positive impact that your dog, Tessie
has had on your ability to travel?
S4 (04:19):
Just the ability and the day to day. She's so clever.
I warned my trainers when I got her a couple
of years ago, that I would train her to locate coffee.
I can tell her if I no where near a
cafe to find coffee, and she will track to the cafe,
even if she's never been there before.
S3 (04:37):
Are you sure she wasn't trained as a sniffer dog first?
S4 (04:40):
It's a Labrador. It wouldn't surprise me.
S3 (04:42):
What sort of apps or tools do you use to
navigate and travel independently?
S4 (04:49):
If I know which bus and that I'm using, I
tend to use moovit. I found because of the way
that it indicates when your stop's coming and all that.
I found that that's really, really good. I use Google
Maps to double check a route. I can still do
that quite effectively. Other than that, a lot of its memory,
especially if it is places I know reasonably well, I
(05:11):
can do a lot of it by memory.
S2 (05:15):
Yes, I've got to admit, memory is, uh, what I
tend to use. That can be a problem, though. I
find I'll be walking along on some street or other
and someone will ask me the directions to something, and
I don't know what street I'm walking across. Um, what?
The name of whatever road it is. It just happens
to be the road that I walked to to get
to wherever I'm going. Have you encountered anything similar or
(05:37):
don't people ask you directions?
S3 (05:41):
You know what? Actually, you'd think having a guide dog
people wouldn't ask you, but I've had tourists from out
of state ask me which way, uh, the central market is.
And I will say to them, I'm sorry, but I
have no idea. You're going to have to consult a map.
S2 (05:57):
Just follow your nose, you know.
S3 (05:59):
Oh, yes. Central market. Yeah. I mean, it's like the
dog tracking for coffee. You know what? Actually, I've got
to say, just on that. That's really funny because I
had the same thing with Lacey. Maybe not so much
with coffee, but yeah, any cafe I if I was
in the middle of a shopping center and I desperately
wanted something to eat, I'd just say find the food
(06:19):
and she would she'd take me to the nearest cafe
or deli or any place that she thought that we
could get food. Although one day she did walk me
to a butcher shop.
S2 (06:29):
Ah, well, that would make sense. Anything else that sort
of popped up there that raised your attention?
S3 (06:35):
Yeah, well, Alex did say that she wasn't sure. Like
when she had to use the cane because Tessie couldn't
come with her. She sort of had that thought of,
how did I do this before? And, you know, I
got to admit, like, since retiring Lacey at the end
of last year, obviously I've had to use my cane
and I kind of, in the first couple of months
(06:56):
did have the same thought of how did I ever
carry on with the cane? How did I manage? Because
I find it so hard to travel safely and independently
with a cane. Like for me, I get more mentally
fatigued within one hour of using a cane than I
ever did during a whole day of using Lacey.
S2 (07:17):
Do you think it's important to actually keep those skills up?
Because you do hear this quite often, where people have
lost their confidence and that sort of stuff and even,
you know, don't really know how to, you know, cope
really without a dog.
S3 (07:30):
I think it's extremely important. I did to some extent
keep them up. Um, you know, because hot weather, you
can't really take your dog out if it's raining and
it's ridiculously wet. You know, you probably don't want to
take them out either, especially if you're going around in public.
S2 (07:44):
Well, you'd be very popular as the the person walking
around with that lovely smell of wet dog.
S3 (07:50):
So I have had to use my cane. And of
course there are so many, you know, situations that you
come across where a dog isn't necessarily going to be
the greatest accessory. You know, going out to gala dinners
or meetings where there's food and little space, things like that. So,
you know, I did kind of keep up my cane training.
But when it came to the day to day and
(08:11):
just traveling around, yeah, I forgot just how much anxiety
I get using the cane and how mentally fatiguing it is.
S2 (08:17):
All right. So we're moving on to Maddie, who's got
a well, um, completely opposite view of things.
S5 (08:25):
So I generally I don't have a guide dog and
I don't use my cane. I have one that I
use rarely. If I'm having like a really hard day visually,
I might use it if I'm in like an unfamiliar
location or if I'm in like, you know, a really
crowded space, or if it's like the time of the
(08:47):
day that the sun's low in the sky and I
struggle the most to see where I'm going. Yeah. Um,
otherwise I do use it in airports, which I found
quite helpful. Getting around. People are kind of more aware
that you're visually impaired. And yeah, that makes it a
bit easier.
S2 (09:02):
Is there any particular reason why you choose not to
use a cane?
S5 (09:05):
I think just because I'm really stubborn and I just
prefer to try and do things on my own as
much as I can, and not draw any attention to
being any different.
S3 (09:14):
If you're traveling around unfamiliar areas, what methods do you
use to travel independently?
S5 (09:21):
So I pre-plan as much as I can. Like I'll
bring up like the maps of transport areas, even if
I'm catching like an Uber to and from. I kind
of pre-plan of like looking at the map and seeing like,
where's a good spot for the Uber to stop and
where's an easy spot for it to pick me up later.
And I use GPS on my phone a lot to
(09:42):
get around Google Maps. Yeah.
S3 (09:44):
Yeah, I love the Apple Maps. Sorry. Just cause I
got an Apple Watch and it'll it'll vibrate on my wrist.
S5 (09:50):
Yeah, that's really helpful. It is even like the maps
on Strava are really good because you can custom maps
on there.
S3 (10:01):
I don't do that on Strava. I have Strava because,
you know, tracking workouts and stuff. But I've never used
Strava to track maps because it's completely inaccessible. But that
thing I said about the Apple Watch came in really
handy the other week because I was walking home from
somewhere and, um, you know, I had to to get
(10:23):
home and I put on the map on my phone
and I told it that I was walking and it
would literally vibrate on my wrist as I was getting
close to a turn. And you know what? Actually it
worked really well. I found the Apple Watch to be
incredible because you get that sensory feedback of like, hey,
you got to turn here.
S2 (10:41):
And it's each to their own, really. I mean, it's
what you, what you find, um, handy in your own lifestyle.
But I mean, it's nice feedback. I mean, there are
some really handy features, especially with the Apple products at
the moment. And yeah, that's a really user friendly. But
I mean, you hear with older people, they have it
for the the heart rate monitor and that just in
case someone might have a fall. Um, all of a
(11:03):
sudden it'll scream out to their, uh, people in their
contact list lists that, uh.
S3 (11:08):
I've got it for that reason, too. Yeah.
S2 (11:10):
So it's a new world as far as all that goes.
Part of the nature of having this disability is. Yes.
You can't just dive into some strange new place. Otherwise, yes,
you're going to be in trouble. You have to do
the research before you go somewhere where you haven't been before. Yeah.
S3 (11:27):
I wonder, do sighted people ever get anxiety about, you know,
going to new places or do they just map it out,
follow a map and get from A to B because
like for me, going to a new place, especially if
I'm going to be by myself or even if it's
just Steven and myself. Like I get a lot of
anxiety about that because, you know, we can't see where
(11:47):
we're going. We went on a date the other week,
and we were dropped off at the Rez Hotel out
on Gorge Road, and, uh, we're like, oh, great. Um,
we're here now. How are we gonna get home? Mhm.
And you know, I don't know. We didn't pre-plan that.
We should have. But in the end Stephen ended up
figuring out where we were and where we needed to go.
(12:08):
But I remember feeling a great deal of anxiety because
I was like, oh, well, we're stuck in the middle
of this place and I don't know how to get around, but,
you know, like you had Stephen, he's really good at
reading maps and pre-planning things. He's. Yeah, he's I don't
know what else to say about that.
S2 (12:25):
I don't know what else you're lost for. Words. Um.
S3 (12:28):
He has that effect on me.
S2 (12:29):
I don't really sort of see that sort of anxiety
in your normal able bodied person when they sort of because. Because,
you know, they probably driven there themselves. So they do
know how to get home again. And yeah, you've got
signs pointing to where the toilets are and where, uh, all,
all the other important stuff is and it's just it's
just there. Our disability is way more personal in that way,
(12:53):
is that you've got to actively look for stuff. You've
actually got to actively, as I said, do the research.
And yeah, I don't think that the able bodied world
has any inkling really of that. And, um, when you
do talk to people sometimes and they are truly astounded that, uh,
you've gone across the other side of the city by
(13:14):
getting a train and a bus or something like that,
and it's like, oh, I could never do that. And
it's like, well.
S3 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean, that's a thing. Like, if you get lost,
there's no guarantee that there's going to be people around
to help you. Like, I remember when I used to
live with my parents and I used to take Lacey
up to the shops. Well, one day we got lost
on the way back, and I'm just stuck in the
middle of a quiet suburban neighborhood at 930, 10:00 in
the morning, and no one's around because everyone's gone to work.
(13:42):
And I'm just sitting there thinking, how the heck am
I going to get home? Like, I have no idea
where I am lucky, I used a bit of, uh,
initiative and, uh, got the Google Maps up and managed
to find my way home. But that was a really
scary time because there was just no one around to
help me.
S2 (13:59):
Once you think you've got a mobile phone, um, prior to,
you know, the 20 tens, mobile phones were a lot
more rudimentary. Um, and of course, we're dealing with, um,
when I was growing up and, um. No, you just
if you got lost, you got lost. You had to
figure out how to get yourself unlost.
S3 (14:17):
Well, it's interesting you should say that because, you know,
now with the advent of these new technologies, there's a
certain degree of spontaneity that we can have going out.
You know, we can just be like, oh, well, I'm
going to go to this place and I'm gonna gonna
experience something new. Whereas I reckon before mobile phones came out,
I mean, I know certainly for me, before I learned
(14:38):
how to use these apps, every action outside of the house, every, um,
trip was planned because I had to know where I
was going, what time I was catching the bus. I
couldn't deviate from the route because if I did, I'd
get lost. So there was no spontaneity. Everything was down
to a routine. And I've lived most of my life
that way. You know, going to university in my early
(14:59):
20s was get on the train at this time, get
into the city, get, you know, and walk to this place.
There was no stopping for coffee at some random shop
on the way or, you know, going across the street
to go and have a look at this. Because if
you did, you got lost and your whole plans were
just delayed. So there's that as well.
S2 (15:17):
All right. So on to a change of scenery as
you as we would put it. Um, Lily always has
something to say on these matters. And, uh, of course
she's got something to say now.
S3 (15:27):
Um.
S6 (15:29):
I chose to use a guide dog, and I prefer
to use her. I. When I first got the cane, I.
I wasn't very good at using it. Even though I'd
had the training, I still was having mishaps. I just
I just didn't, um, I yeah, I wasn't a great
cane user and, uh, um, so I decided to get
(15:50):
the dog. I mean, I've always had dogs. I love dogs,
I know how to look after dogs. So it was
just a it was going to be a natural progression,
I think, for me to get a dog. Um, I
love that she is an identifier. Um, people see the
dog sometimes. They don't see the cane, but they see
the dog. I find people treat you a little differently
(16:11):
when you've got a dog to a cane. I have
to say, um, they I don't know. They tend to
want to engage with you more, I think, because when I,
my experience was when I just had the cane, they
didn't so much. Although I dispelled that myth in the,
in the when I was, um, in the UK when
I was in London, because I just had my cane
then and I, I got a lot of support, but um, yeah.
(16:33):
So I it it's a personal choice. I do, I prefer,
I prefer to have um, the dog because especially whilst
doing so much work on public transport, um, I was
had a four hour commute, you know, to two hours
there two hours back when I was working in Sydney.
so it takes the stress out a little bit. She's
(16:54):
she's your eyes, you know. And she was such a
good it still is such a good little worker. And
she was bang on, bang on in those train stations.
I wouldn't even have to. I'd just say a word.
Find the stairs, find the escalator, find the lift, find
find coffee. She'd get me to the coffee shop. You know,
I literally I said, no, seriously, I could literally from
the time I got on the train at Shellharbour until
(17:15):
I had to go to Parramatta, it would just be
a series of words, you know, find the door, find
the train, find the door, you know, find the seat,
then get off. I'd get off, find the escalator. Sometimes
I didn't even have to say that. She'd get me
down the escalator, find the gate. We'd get through the gate,
no problem. And then the next word would be find coffee.
And she'd literally take me to the counter of the
(17:36):
coffee shop on the way to on the way to
work without me saying, oh, she. Oh, it's a little girl.
S3 (17:42):
Tilly.
S6 (17:42):
Now she's she's eight, she's eight, and she's just had
her assessment to see if she's got a still got
a little bit of working life, you know, and we've
decided she has. So I'm praying I get a couple
more years out of her. Yeah. So she's been she's
been awesome. Awesome, awesome little pocket rocket. Yeah. She's a
great little dog. Yeah.
S3 (18:01):
So when when you travel in unfamiliar areas, what tools
and methods do you use to get around, for example,
like GPS or Google Maps or, you know, the GPS devices?
S6 (18:13):
Yeah, I, I've tried, I've tried to use Google Maps and,
you know, say to it, get walking directions to wherever
I have to go. Um, because I get confused in
the city. I don't know if it's the buildings or whatever.
So they they never worked so well for me. Uh,
so I don't use them a lot. I found, uh,
(18:36):
what's the one with the sonar? What do they call it? Uh,
you know that at the beacon, one where you can
put beacons? Um, no, no, not blind square but similar soundscape. Soundscape.
So that was I did get trained with an O
and M to um, use that. That was really helpful
(18:58):
when I was on the beach. So if I was
walking the dogs along the beach, um, these country beat
these coastal beaches down on the south coast of New
South Wales. They they're not like the city beaches that'll
have a a distinct path to get up off the beach.
These are little bush tracks, right? Yeah. And I can't
see them. Um, and, uh, so I knew that was
(19:18):
going to be really difficult. I was kept overshooting them
and overshooting them. Um, and there's nothing in the sand
or the ocean that can be a marker. Right. So.
So I was able to set beacons to go beep beep,
beep beep and get when. And then it say to me, right, you,
you now need to turn left. Because if you turn
left and keep going up there, you're going to have
the exit. And then when I got to the exit,
it told me that I was at the right spot
and then I'd get off the beach. By that stage,
(19:40):
Tilly usually went, okay, yeah, we're at the exit. So
that was helpful. Soundscape. Um, and, uh, helpful. Uh, but otherwise, yeah,
use Google Maps. Uh, a little bit. Other than that,
I don't use a lot of those sorts of things. No.
S3 (19:58):
Okay. There is a common theme here I'm noticing. Dogs
finding coffee.
S2 (20:03):
Wow. Yes.
S3 (20:04):
See, blind people love their coffee just as much as
sighted people do. Oh. Speaking of apps, one that I
actually learned about a couple of weeks ago is lazarillo.
S2 (20:13):
Okay.
S3 (20:13):
And.
S2 (20:14):
Sounds interesting.
S3 (20:15):
Yeah, well, it kind of really works inside of buildings
really well as well, like shopping centers and things. I've
yet to really experiment with it fully, but it's really
detailed and it'll give you the things like in proximity,
in meters and a clock face kind of thing. Like
you can set it up the way you want it,
custom set it up. But I've, I heard about this
(20:36):
app Lazarillo, and I think it'd be really interesting if
we can, you know, experiment with different GPS apps and
sort of just do a show based on that. But yeah,
there's there's so many these days that you can use.
I mean, accessibility has never been better. I'm not saying
that we don't have a ways to go to improve it,
but in my opinion, accessibility for blind people and people
(20:58):
with disability in general has never been better.
S2 (21:00):
I think what we're going to find is now that
you've got app developers that are onto it, then it
ceases to become a challenge for them and it becomes
a project. Yep. So, so an app developer wants the
challenge to make something better. And if there is something
(21:21):
that you don't like about it in the particular version
of a piece of software or an app, they are
very keen to hear back and they will go, ah, brilliant,
we've got something to fix because technicians, that's what they love.
They love fixing stuff.
S3 (21:34):
The only problem I can foresee, though, is now that
accessibility is becoming such a mainstream thing, and it's being
so widely addressed that we'll have a flood of bad
quality apps on the market, and which is fine for
for those of us that have been blind or vision
impaired our whole lives. We know what works and what doesn't.
But then if you've got someone who's recently acquired a
(21:54):
vision loss coming into this, looking for apps to help them,
and there's like a flood of really bad ones on
the market, that might be an issue. So I think
it's also going to be a case of bringing awareness
to the good ones, to the ones that actually work.
Because yeah, like anything, once the market becomes accessible, they're just,
you know, he gets flooded.
S2 (22:15):
Well, you get lazy people, you get con artists that
will be out for a buck or two from from
it because it's a market as well for sure.
S3 (22:22):
Yeah, exactly.
S2 (22:23):
So it's up to us as a community to find
the good ones, spread the news, find the dodgy ones
and also spread the news. That's what it comes down to.
All right. So the next two lots of people I
should say were talking to have um, well, very different
ideas as far as, um, the, uh, cute puppy goes. Well,
there's a theme and I'll run both of these together
(22:43):
so that at the end of it we can talk
about what they all have to say. It's short, but sweet.
S7 (22:51):
Cane. Because I've got a dog and I think I
prefer the cane at this stage. Yeah. Me too.
S8 (22:59):
I remember I went to this Guide Dogs camp. Actually,
I think you went to where we had that guide
dog for a week, and that kind of made me
realise how much work it actually was.
S3 (23:10):
When it comes to travelling unknown areas independently, what tools,
apps or strategies do you use?
S7 (23:16):
I don't go anywhere. Usually not. I'm not going anywhere
because sometimes I do. But I don't walk around unknown
places without someone with me.
S8 (23:24):
I don't very much either, but if I did, I
would probably use Be My Eyes or IRA.
S9 (23:34):
I can use either either, but at the moment I
prefer me cane because I don't have to feed it
and I don't have to clean up its poop.
S3 (23:40):
Do you think there are any situations where a dog
might be better than a cane?
S9 (23:44):
Uh, absolutely. Uh, in most situations, to be fair, and
I'll tell you why. You have a dog. So you
will have experienced this because people love dogs. They're more
apt to help you with the white cane, less so,
but they will help. But they're more apt to help
you with a dog.
S3 (24:01):
Especially if the dog's cute.
S9 (24:03):
Yes.
S3 (24:04):
When travelling in unfamiliar areas, how do you get about.
S9 (24:08):
Combination of GPS and sheer luck?
S3 (24:14):
Okay. Yeah. See, I've travelled with Sean before and it
literally is a combination of GPS and sheer luck. And
I can't tell you the ratio of GPS to sheer luck,
but there's definitely a lot of that, um, spontaneity.
S2 (24:32):
Well, you might go to places you would never think
of otherwise, you know, um, if with sheer luck, reliance
on on that.
S3 (24:37):
But to the theme of, of, uh, not having to
look after a cane. This is true. But, you know,
generally people who get guide dogs get them for very
specific reasons. Like for me, for example, Lacey gave me
a safe line of travel. For the most part, she
dodged obstacles apart from about the 4 or 5 times
she's walked me into trees. Mhm. Um, she's, you know,
(24:59):
you can walk faster. You don't have to use as
much mental energy. So there is that as well. And
I do remember that camp that Tori, uh, referenced in
the previous clip. And yeah, we had this guide dog
for about four days each. Like we had to look
after this thing and feed it and poop it. And
I think if, if I remember her correctly, hers was
(25:20):
very stubborn. It didn't want to poo.
S2 (25:22):
Right.
S3 (25:23):
Um, mine was the complete opposite and wanted to poo
at least 3 or 4 times a day. But yeah.
So it does really give you an insight as to
how much work it takes to look after a dog.
And I think that's really important before considering getting a
guide dog is you need to be aware of just
how much work goes into it, because I do know
people who have got guide dogs in the past, and
(25:46):
they've had to give them back because they're like, this
is just too much work. I wasn't expecting this.
S2 (25:51):
Mhm. Indeed. I mean, you can't really judge people for
that because everyone's different. Everyone leads very different lifestyles and uh, yes,
occasionally um, having to look after this creature, whether it
be a guide dog or a pet or something like
that doesn't necessarily fit into what you do. So that's
really what it comes down to. I mean, they may
be more convenient than a cane, but.
S3 (26:12):
They're also a living thing.
S2 (26:13):
That's right. Exactly.
S3 (26:14):
And like most living things, they're prone to having attitudes
and behavioural issues and outbursts and digestive issues. And you
know what? Like that's the thing I think it's it's
likened to having kids. You know, if you know that
your lifestyle doesn't permit you to have kids, if you
know that it wouldn't be conducive to the life you
(26:36):
want to live, then you wouldn't have a kid, because
bringing a kid into that sort of life and knowing
that you wouldn't be able to give it the attention
or the, you know, the time that it requires would be,
you know, kind of selfish on your part. And the
same is with a guide dog. Like, if you can't
look after a guide dog, if you can't meet its
basic needs, there's probably no point in having one. And
(26:57):
if you can do well without it and keep using
the cane, then there's kind of no reason to change.
S2 (27:02):
Well, I have known plenty of blind people who have
also made that choice as well, and who've, um, got
by perfectly well without it. And even there's a couple
of people I know who have, well, have pet dogs
and have decided not to get a guide dog because
it probably wouldn't get along with the pet dogs. So. Anyway,
we're going to finish off with Anthony. He'll have the
last say before we, um, wrap for this week.
S10 (27:26):
I tend to prefer to use a guide dog. Uh,
that's mainly because I've been using guide dogs for 40 years,
and I've just gotten so used to it that, um, um,
I don't like using the white cane. Um, although I
will use the white cane and occasionally if I'm going
to places that aren't, um, good for for guide dogs,
(27:48):
you know, like live concerts perhaps, uh, quite often. Don't
like taking the dog to a barbecue because people want
to feed the dog and it presents a big hassle.
So just take the cane instead. But, um, interesting story
was based on discrimination. How I got a guide dog. Uh,
because particularly my parents, and I've seen this happen time
(28:10):
and time again. For some reason they think you're incompetent.
If you're using a white cane they think you need
they need something else to help you. And they think
a guide dog is is going to, um, be the
answer to blindness. And it's not. It's just another tool.
A dog is, well, equally dangerous as a white cane
and equally safe as a white cane. So it depends
(28:32):
on the person using it. And but my parents thought,
because you're blind, that stereotypical thing of people with disabilities
are useless and accident prone and can't walk up steps
without breaking their neck. They thought the dog would be
the answer. So I was sort of talked into a
dog pretty quickly. Um, because just a peer group, family pressure,
(28:53):
I guess. And um, and it's cute and cuddly, so
it's not a hard thing to accept. And, um, and
I got my first guide dog and, and I just
that as much as I did the white cane and
had great fun with it. And in fact, I, I
enjoyed my dog so well after, I think one year
using a guide dog, I hitchhiked around Australia and New
(29:15):
Zealand with it. So, um, which I could have done
with the cane as well, but um, I just had
the dog at the time, so I thought I'd run
with the dog.
S3 (29:24):
I was gonna say that, uh, I guess hitchhiking would
be safer with the dog. But I do remember the
story that he told us for International Guide Dog Day,
so it might not be particularly true, that it's safer.
S10 (29:36):
Well there's that. I do feel a little bit safer
with the dog, because it has that extra deterrent with
some people, and not that the dogs would ever attack
anybody in defense, but at least it gives other it
gives people a second thought. If you're traveling late at night,
you feel safer because you've got your dog with you
and so on. And also getting back to the dating situation,
(29:58):
if you've got a guide dog, probably the best thing
ever to pull in the chicks, as they say, or
my mates or I say, he's a chick magnet and
he is.
S11 (30:07):
Is that what you say?
S10 (30:08):
Yep.
S11 (30:09):
Is it you that's the chick magnet or the dog?
S10 (30:11):
No, it's the dog. It's the dog. The dog going
to try and capitalize on it if I can. And
it can be a bit rude because people really aren't
interested in the dog. Yeah, you can get a bit
disheartening if they're not new at all. That can be
a bit annoying, but that's part of having a dog.
The dog is the attraction and also you're taking the
dog into places where dogs aren't supposed to be. So
(30:35):
you're going to stand out whether you like it or not,
which is where the negative sides of having a guide dog.
One of the beauties of having the cane is when
you get to your destination, you can fold it up,
put it away, and nobody knows you're blind. You're not
advertising it as as opposed to you are with a
guide dog. So you get a better chance being treated.
Treated equally until they realize you are blind and then
(30:57):
you're back to square one.
S3 (30:58):
That's a wrap for this week. A big thanks to Alex, Maddie, Lily, Josh, Tori, Sean,
and Anthony for sharing your stories with us this week.
S2 (31:08):
And well done remembering all of that. And of course,
thank you for listening, including our listeners on the Reading
Radio Network. You can find the podcast of this program,
including quite often, some extra content on Apple, Spotify, Google
or your favorite podcast platform.
S3 (31:24):
Next week, we celebrate Book Week in style.
S2 (31:28):
Lizzie catches up with Lesley Heaney from Braille House, and
we ask our choir of angels how they prefer to
read that great tome or slightly trashy romance.
S3 (31:39):
But between now and then you can get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (31:56):
You can reach us via Email Studio one at org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (32:02):
Org or of course, you can find us on Facebook
or Instagram by searching for VA Radio Network. We want
to hear from you.
S1 (32:12):
Studio one was produced in the Adelaide studios of Vision
Australia Radio. This show was made possible with the help
of the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at.
This is Studio One with Sam Rickard and Lizzie Eastham
on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:25):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:26):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:27):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:33):
This week we're out on the streets again.
S2 (00:36):
Well, not literally, but we ask a few of our
friends how they handle mobility. Not just the puppy or
the stick, but the apps and the software available to
stop us from getting hopelessly lost.
S3 (00:47):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (01:02):
You can contact us via email Studio one, org that's
studio one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:08):
Org or perhaps you can drop us a note on
the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com.
S2 (01:19):
Hello, Lizzie. Welcome to the depths of winter and despair,
you might say.
S3 (01:24):
Yeah, something like that.
S2 (01:25):
It's been a funny weekend over here in Adelaide. It's
been rainy and cold. I don't know about you, but
I left the house probably for about half an hour
to do some shopping and then went straight home as
soon as possible and, uh, found myself a nice blanket
to crawl under and basically didn't move then for the
rest of the weekend.
S3 (01:45):
Well, Saturday I did much the same, but unfortunately, no.
Yesterday I did have to go out for a good
chunk of the day. Uh, you know, going to church
and being part of the worship band and all that
so I could not avoid the cold, sadly.
S2 (01:58):
Well, um, dear listener, we are not, uh, covering what
we've been advertising because, uh, the people at Blind Citizens
Australia have deigned not to get back to us again. Again?
That's right. So, um, yes, we had a fantastic show
last week where Bill and David gave us the background
(02:20):
of what I think we can all agree is a
worthwhile organisation, and one that has done an awful lot
of really good work. And we were hoping this week
to cover where we go from here, what they are
doing right now and where they plan on going in
the future. But, uh, yes, we haven't heard back from
them and they don't seem to be able to afford
(02:41):
to give us, say, half an hour of their time,
which is a real shame.
S3 (02:44):
Yeah, I was really looking forward to hearing about some
of the current issues that they're tackling. And one of
the things I really wanted to ask or find out
about was how the issues that they are facing today
differ from the ones that they faced at the inception
of the organisation. So, you know, I won't get to
ask that question this week, but that's okay because we
are out and about once again talking about puppies, sticks
(03:08):
and a whole lot of other mobility related stuff.
S2 (03:12):
Exactly. I mean, this is the big thing about our
disability is how do you get out and about? Do
you get out and about sometimes? Yes. People do rely
on the trusty old white stick. And other times we have, um,
just the.
S3 (03:27):
Pretty laili's.
S2 (03:28):
Pretty little guide dogs or whatever. Or in my case,
I tend not to use either. And yes, maybe that's
a that's a conscious decision. We've got a few people
here who will, uh, talk to us about that decision,
and also a couple of little tips and tricks that
they used in order to. Yes. Not end up roaming
the streets hopelessly lost, as it were.
S4 (03:53):
Oh, give me the dog any day of the week. It's.
The independence is so different compared to just having that stick.
I go back to the stick every now and then
when I have to, when she can't come and I'm like,
how did I manage with this beforehand? I will always
take the dog over a cane if I can. Plus,
it's the company. Doesn't matter where you go, you've got company.
S3 (04:13):
Can you describe the positive impact that your dog, Tessie
has had on your ability to travel?
S4 (04:19):
Just the ability and the day to day. She's so clever.
I warned my trainers when I got her a couple
of years ago, that I would train her to locate coffee.
I can tell her if I no where near a
cafe to find coffee, and she will track to the cafe,
even if she's never been there before.
S3 (04:37):
Are you sure she wasn't trained as a sniffer dog first?
S4 (04:40):
It's a Labrador. It wouldn't surprise me.
S3 (04:42):
What sort of apps or tools do you use to
navigate and travel independently?
S4 (04:49):
If I know which bus and that I'm using, I
tend to use moovit. I found because of the way
that it indicates when your stop's coming and all that.
I found that that's really, really good. I use Google
Maps to double check a route. I can still do
that quite effectively. Other than that, a lot of its memory,
especially if it is places I know reasonably well, I
(05:11):
can do a lot of it by memory.
S2 (05:15):
Yes, I've got to admit, memory is, uh, what I
tend to use. That can be a problem, though. I
find I'll be walking along on some street or other
and someone will ask me the directions to something, and
I don't know what street I'm walking across. Um, what?
The name of whatever road it is. It just happens
to be the road that I walked to to get
to wherever I'm going. Have you encountered anything similar or
(05:37):
don't people ask you directions?
S3 (05:41):
You know what? Actually, you'd think having a guide dog
people wouldn't ask you, but I've had tourists from out
of state ask me which way, uh, the central market is.
And I will say to them, I'm sorry, but I
have no idea. You're going to have to consult a map.
S2 (05:57):
Just follow your nose, you know.
S3 (05:59):
Oh, yes. Central market. Yeah. I mean, it's like the
dog tracking for coffee. You know what? Actually, I've got
to say, just on that. That's really funny because I
had the same thing with Lacey. Maybe not so much
with coffee, but yeah, any cafe I if I was
in the middle of a shopping center and I desperately
wanted something to eat, I'd just say find the food
(06:19):
and she would she'd take me to the nearest cafe
or deli or any place that she thought that we
could get food. Although one day she did walk me
to a butcher shop.
S2 (06:29):
Ah, well, that would make sense. Anything else that sort
of popped up there that raised your attention?
S3 (06:35):
Yeah, well, Alex did say that she wasn't sure. Like
when she had to use the cane because Tessie couldn't
come with her. She sort of had that thought of,
how did I do this before? And, you know, I
got to admit, like, since retiring Lacey at the end
of last year, obviously I've had to use my cane
and I kind of, in the first couple of months
(06:56):
did have the same thought of how did I ever
carry on with the cane? How did I manage? Because
I find it so hard to travel safely and independently
with a cane. Like for me, I get more mentally
fatigued within one hour of using a cane than I
ever did during a whole day of using Lacey.
S2 (07:17):
Do you think it's important to actually keep those skills up?
Because you do hear this quite often, where people have
lost their confidence and that sort of stuff and even,
you know, don't really know how to, you know, cope
really without a dog.
S3 (07:30):
I think it's extremely important. I did to some extent
keep them up. Um, you know, because hot weather, you
can't really take your dog out if it's raining and
it's ridiculously wet. You know, you probably don't want to
take them out either, especially if you're going around in public.
S2 (07:44):
Well, you'd be very popular as the the person walking
around with that lovely smell of wet dog.
S3 (07:50):
So I have had to use my cane. And of
course there are so many, you know, situations that you
come across where a dog isn't necessarily going to be
the greatest accessory. You know, going out to gala dinners
or meetings where there's food and little space, things like that. So,
you know, I did kind of keep up my cane training.
But when it came to the day to day and
(08:11):
just traveling around, yeah, I forgot just how much anxiety
I get using the cane and how mentally fatiguing it is.
S2 (08:17):
All right. So we're moving on to Maddie, who's got
a well, um, completely opposite view of things.
S5 (08:25):
So I generally I don't have a guide dog and
I don't use my cane. I have one that I
use rarely. If I'm having like a really hard day visually,
I might use it if I'm in like an unfamiliar
location or if I'm in like, you know, a really
crowded space, or if it's like the time of the
(08:47):
day that the sun's low in the sky and I
struggle the most to see where I'm going. Yeah. Um,
otherwise I do use it in airports, which I found
quite helpful. Getting around. People are kind of more aware
that you're visually impaired. And yeah, that makes it a
bit easier.
S2 (09:02):
Is there any particular reason why you choose not to
use a cane?
S5 (09:05):
I think just because I'm really stubborn and I just
prefer to try and do things on my own as
much as I can, and not draw any attention to
being any different.
S3 (09:14):
If you're traveling around unfamiliar areas, what methods do you
use to travel independently?
S5 (09:21):
So I pre-plan as much as I can. Like I'll
bring up like the maps of transport areas, even if
I'm catching like an Uber to and from. I kind
of pre-plan of like looking at the map and seeing like,
where's a good spot for the Uber to stop and
where's an easy spot for it to pick me up later.
And I use GPS on my phone a lot to
(09:42):
get around Google Maps. Yeah.
S3 (09:44):
Yeah, I love the Apple Maps. Sorry. Just cause I
got an Apple Watch and it'll it'll vibrate on my wrist.
S5 (09:50):
Yeah, that's really helpful. It is even like the maps
on Strava are really good because you can custom maps
on there.
S3 (10:01):
I don't do that on Strava. I have Strava because,
you know, tracking workouts and stuff. But I've never used
Strava to track maps because it's completely inaccessible. But that
thing I said about the Apple Watch came in really
handy the other week because I was walking home from
somewhere and, um, you know, I had to to get
(10:23):
home and I put on the map on my phone
and I told it that I was walking and it
would literally vibrate on my wrist as I was getting
close to a turn. And you know what? Actually it
worked really well. I found the Apple Watch to be
incredible because you get that sensory feedback of like, hey,
you got to turn here.
S2 (10:41):
And it's each to their own, really. I mean, it's
what you, what you find, um, handy in your own lifestyle.
But I mean, it's nice feedback. I mean, there are
some really handy features, especially with the Apple products at
the moment. And yeah, that's a really user friendly. But
I mean, you hear with older people, they have it
for the the heart rate monitor and that just in
case someone might have a fall. Um, all of a
(11:03):
sudden it'll scream out to their, uh, people in their
contact list lists that, uh.
S3 (11:08):
I've got it for that reason, too. Yeah.
S2 (11:10):
So it's a new world as far as all that goes.
Part of the nature of having this disability is. Yes.
You can't just dive into some strange new place. Otherwise, yes,
you're going to be in trouble. You have to do
the research before you go somewhere where you haven't been before. Yeah.
S3 (11:27):
I wonder, do sighted people ever get anxiety about, you know,
going to new places or do they just map it out,
follow a map and get from A to B because
like for me, going to a new place, especially if
I'm going to be by myself or even if it's
just Steven and myself. Like I get a lot of
anxiety about that because, you know, we can't see where
(11:47):
we're going. We went on a date the other week,
and we were dropped off at the Rez Hotel out
on Gorge Road, and, uh, we're like, oh, great. Um,
we're here now. How are we gonna get home? Mhm.
And you know, I don't know. We didn't pre-plan that.
We should have. But in the end Stephen ended up
figuring out where we were and where we needed to go.
(12:08):
But I remember feeling a great deal of anxiety because
I was like, oh, well, we're stuck in the middle
of this place and I don't know how to get around, but,
you know, like you had Stephen, he's really good at
reading maps and pre-planning things. He's. Yeah, he's I don't
know what else to say about that.
S2 (12:25):
I don't know what else you're lost for. Words. Um.
S3 (12:28):
He has that effect on me.
S2 (12:29):
I don't really sort of see that sort of anxiety
in your normal able bodied person when they sort of because. Because,
you know, they probably driven there themselves. So they do
know how to get home again. And yeah, you've got
signs pointing to where the toilets are and where, uh, all,
all the other important stuff is and it's just it's
just there. Our disability is way more personal in that way,
(12:53):
is that you've got to actively look for stuff. You've
actually got to actively, as I said, do the research.
And yeah, I don't think that the able bodied world
has any inkling really of that. And, um, when you
do talk to people sometimes and they are truly astounded that, uh,
you've gone across the other side of the city by
(13:14):
getting a train and a bus or something like that,
and it's like, oh, I could never do that. And
it's like, well.
S3 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean, that's a thing. Like, if you get lost,
there's no guarantee that there's going to be people around
to help you. Like, I remember when I used to
live with my parents and I used to take Lacey
up to the shops. Well, one day we got lost
on the way back, and I'm just stuck in the
middle of a quiet suburban neighborhood at 930, 10:00 in
the morning, and no one's around because everyone's gone to work.
(13:42):
And I'm just sitting there thinking, how the heck am
I going to get home? Like, I have no idea
where I am lucky, I used a bit of, uh,
initiative and, uh, got the Google Maps up and managed
to find my way home. But that was a really
scary time because there was just no one around to
help me.
S2 (13:59):
Once you think you've got a mobile phone, um, prior to,
you know, the 20 tens, mobile phones were a lot
more rudimentary. Um, and of course, we're dealing with, um,
when I was growing up and, um. No, you just
if you got lost, you got lost. You had to
figure out how to get yourself unlost.
S3 (14:17):
Well, it's interesting you should say that because, you know,
now with the advent of these new technologies, there's a
certain degree of spontaneity that we can have going out.
You know, we can just be like, oh, well, I'm
going to go to this place and I'm gonna gonna
experience something new. Whereas I reckon before mobile phones came out,
I mean, I know certainly for me, before I learned
(14:38):
how to use these apps, every action outside of the house, every, um,
trip was planned because I had to know where I
was going, what time I was catching the bus. I
couldn't deviate from the route because if I did, I'd
get lost. So there was no spontaneity. Everything was down
to a routine. And I've lived most of my life
that way. You know, going to university in my early
(14:59):
20s was get on the train at this time, get
into the city, get, you know, and walk to this place.
There was no stopping for coffee at some random shop
on the way or, you know, going across the street
to go and have a look at this. Because if
you did, you got lost and your whole plans were
just delayed. So there's that as well.
S2 (15:17):
All right. So on to a change of scenery as
you as we would put it. Um, Lily always has
something to say on these matters. And, uh, of course
she's got something to say now.
S3 (15:27):
Um.
S6 (15:29):
I chose to use a guide dog, and I prefer
to use her. I. When I first got the cane, I.
I wasn't very good at using it. Even though I'd
had the training, I still was having mishaps. I just
I just didn't, um, I yeah, I wasn't a great
cane user and, uh, um, so I decided to get
(15:50):
the dog. I mean, I've always had dogs. I love dogs,
I know how to look after dogs. So it was
just a it was going to be a natural progression,
I think, for me to get a dog. Um, I
love that she is an identifier. Um, people see the
dog sometimes. They don't see the cane, but they see
the dog. I find people treat you a little differently
(16:11):
when you've got a dog to a cane. I have
to say, um, they I don't know. They tend to
want to engage with you more, I think, because when I,
my experience was when I just had the cane, they
didn't so much. Although I dispelled that myth in the,
in the when I was, um, in the UK when
I was in London, because I just had my cane
then and I, I got a lot of support, but um, yeah.
(16:33):
So I it it's a personal choice. I do, I prefer,
I prefer to have um, the dog because especially whilst
doing so much work on public transport, um, I was
had a four hour commute, you know, to two hours
there two hours back when I was working in Sydney.
so it takes the stress out a little bit. She's
(16:54):
she's your eyes, you know. And she was such a
good it still is such a good little worker. And
she was bang on, bang on in those train stations.
I wouldn't even have to. I'd just say a word.
Find the stairs, find the escalator, find the lift, find
find coffee. She'd get me to the coffee shop. You know,
I literally I said, no, seriously, I could literally from
the time I got on the train at Shellharbour until
(17:15):
I had to go to Parramatta, it would just be
a series of words, you know, find the door, find
the train, find the door, you know, find the seat,
then get off. I'd get off, find the escalator. Sometimes
I didn't even have to say that. She'd get me
down the escalator, find the gate. We'd get through the gate,
no problem. And then the next word would be find coffee.
And she'd literally take me to the counter of the
(17:36):
coffee shop on the way to on the way to
work without me saying, oh, she. Oh, it's a little girl.
S3 (17:42):
Tilly.
S6 (17:42):
Now she's she's eight, she's eight, and she's just had
her assessment to see if she's got a still got
a little bit of working life, you know, and we've
decided she has. So I'm praying I get a couple
more years out of her. Yeah. So she's been she's
been awesome. Awesome, awesome little pocket rocket. Yeah. She's a
great little dog. Yeah.
S3 (18:01):
So when when you travel in unfamiliar areas, what tools
and methods do you use to get around, for example,
like GPS or Google Maps or, you know, the GPS devices?
S6 (18:13):
Yeah, I, I've tried, I've tried to use Google Maps and,
you know, say to it, get walking directions to wherever
I have to go. Um, because I get confused in
the city. I don't know if it's the buildings or whatever.
So they they never worked so well for me. Uh,
so I don't use them a lot. I found, uh,
(18:36):
what's the one with the sonar? What do they call it? Uh,
you know that at the beacon, one where you can
put beacons? Um, no, no, not blind square but similar soundscape. Soundscape.
So that was I did get trained with an O
and M to um, use that. That was really helpful
(18:58):
when I was on the beach. So if I was
walking the dogs along the beach, um, these country beat
these coastal beaches down on the south coast of New
South Wales. They they're not like the city beaches that'll
have a a distinct path to get up off the beach.
These are little bush tracks, right? Yeah. And I can't
see them. Um, and, uh, so I knew that was
(19:18):
going to be really difficult. I was kept overshooting them
and overshooting them. Um, and there's nothing in the sand
or the ocean that can be a marker. Right. So.
So I was able to set beacons to go beep beep,
beep beep and get when. And then it say to me, right, you,
you now need to turn left. Because if you turn
left and keep going up there, you're going to have
the exit. And then when I got to the exit,
it told me that I was at the right spot
and then I'd get off the beach. By that stage,
(19:40):
Tilly usually went, okay, yeah, we're at the exit. So
that was helpful. Soundscape. Um, and, uh, helpful. Uh, but otherwise, yeah,
use Google Maps. Uh, a little bit. Other than that,
I don't use a lot of those sorts of things. No.
S3 (19:58):
Okay. There is a common theme here I'm noticing. Dogs
finding coffee.
S2 (20:03):
Wow. Yes.
S3 (20:04):
See, blind people love their coffee just as much as
sighted people do. Oh. Speaking of apps, one that I
actually learned about a couple of weeks ago is lazarillo.
S2 (20:13):
Okay.
S3 (20:13):
And.
S2 (20:14):
Sounds interesting.
S3 (20:15):
Yeah, well, it kind of really works inside of buildings
really well as well, like shopping centers and things. I've
yet to really experiment with it fully, but it's really
detailed and it'll give you the things like in proximity,
in meters and a clock face kind of thing. Like
you can set it up the way you want it,
custom set it up. But I've, I heard about this
(20:36):
app Lazarillo, and I think it'd be really interesting if
we can, you know, experiment with different GPS apps and
sort of just do a show based on that. But yeah,
there's there's so many these days that you can use.
I mean, accessibility has never been better. I'm not saying
that we don't have a ways to go to improve it,
but in my opinion, accessibility for blind people and people
(20:58):
with disability in general has never been better.
S2 (21:00):
I think what we're going to find is now that
you've got app developers that are onto it, then it
ceases to become a challenge for them and it becomes
a project. Yep. So, so an app developer wants the
challenge to make something better. And if there is something
(21:21):
that you don't like about it in the particular version
of a piece of software or an app, they are
very keen to hear back and they will go, ah, brilliant,
we've got something to fix because technicians, that's what they love.
They love fixing stuff.
S3 (21:34):
The only problem I can foresee, though, is now that
accessibility is becoming such a mainstream thing, and it's being
so widely addressed that we'll have a flood of bad
quality apps on the market, and which is fine for
for those of us that have been blind or vision
impaired our whole lives. We know what works and what doesn't.
But then if you've got someone who's recently acquired a
(21:54):
vision loss coming into this, looking for apps to help them,
and there's like a flood of really bad ones on
the market, that might be an issue. So I think
it's also going to be a case of bringing awareness
to the good ones, to the ones that actually work.
Because yeah, like anything, once the market becomes accessible, they're just,
you know, he gets flooded.
S2 (22:15):
Well, you get lazy people, you get con artists that
will be out for a buck or two from from
it because it's a market as well for sure.
S3 (22:22):
Yeah, exactly.
S2 (22:23):
So it's up to us as a community to find
the good ones, spread the news, find the dodgy ones
and also spread the news. That's what it comes down to.
All right. So the next two lots of people I
should say were talking to have um, well, very different
ideas as far as, um, the, uh, cute puppy goes. Well,
there's a theme and I'll run both of these together
(22:43):
so that at the end of it we can talk
about what they all have to say. It's short, but sweet.
S7 (22:51):
Cane. Because I've got a dog and I think I
prefer the cane at this stage. Yeah. Me too.
S8 (22:59):
I remember I went to this Guide Dogs camp. Actually,
I think you went to where we had that guide
dog for a week, and that kind of made me
realise how much work it actually was.
S3 (23:10):
When it comes to travelling unknown areas independently, what tools,
apps or strategies do you use?
S7 (23:16):
I don't go anywhere. Usually not. I'm not going anywhere
because sometimes I do. But I don't walk around unknown
places without someone with me.
S8 (23:24):
I don't very much either, but if I did, I
would probably use Be My Eyes or IRA.
S9 (23:34):
I can use either either, but at the moment I
prefer me cane because I don't have to feed it
and I don't have to clean up its poop.
S3 (23:40):
Do you think there are any situations where a dog
might be better than a cane?
S9 (23:44):
Uh, absolutely. Uh, in most situations, to be fair, and
I'll tell you why. You have a dog. So you
will have experienced this because people love dogs. They're more
apt to help you with the white cane, less so,
but they will help. But they're more apt to help
you with a dog.
S3 (24:01):
Especially if the dog's cute.
S9 (24:03):
Yes.
S3 (24:04):
When travelling in unfamiliar areas, how do you get about.
S9 (24:08):
Combination of GPS and sheer luck?
S3 (24:14):
Okay. Yeah. See, I've travelled with Sean before and it
literally is a combination of GPS and sheer luck. And
I can't tell you the ratio of GPS to sheer luck,
but there's definitely a lot of that, um, spontaneity.
S2 (24:32):
Well, you might go to places you would never think
of otherwise, you know, um, if with sheer luck, reliance
on on that.
S3 (24:37):
But to the theme of, of, uh, not having to
look after a cane. This is true. But, you know,
generally people who get guide dogs get them for very
specific reasons. Like for me, for example, Lacey gave me
a safe line of travel. For the most part, she
dodged obstacles apart from about the 4 or 5 times
she's walked me into trees. Mhm. Um, she's, you know,
(24:59):
you can walk faster. You don't have to use as
much mental energy. So there is that as well. And
I do remember that camp that Tori, uh, referenced in
the previous clip. And yeah, we had this guide dog
for about four days each. Like we had to look
after this thing and feed it and poop it. And
I think if, if I remember her correctly, hers was
(25:20):
very stubborn. It didn't want to poo.
S2 (25:22):
Right.
S3 (25:23):
Um, mine was the complete opposite and wanted to poo
at least 3 or 4 times a day. But yeah.
So it does really give you an insight as to
how much work it takes to look after a dog.
And I think that's really important before considering getting a
guide dog is you need to be aware of just
how much work goes into it, because I do know
people who have got guide dogs in the past, and
(25:46):
they've had to give them back because they're like, this
is just too much work. I wasn't expecting this.
S2 (25:51):
Mhm. Indeed. I mean, you can't really judge people for
that because everyone's different. Everyone leads very different lifestyles and uh, yes,
occasionally um, having to look after this creature, whether it
be a guide dog or a pet or something like
that doesn't necessarily fit into what you do. So that's
really what it comes down to. I mean, they may
be more convenient than a cane, but.
S3 (26:12):
They're also a living thing.
S2 (26:13):
That's right. Exactly.
S3 (26:14):
And like most living things, they're prone to having attitudes
and behavioural issues and outbursts and digestive issues. And you
know what? Like that's the thing I think it's it's
likened to having kids. You know, if you know that
your lifestyle doesn't permit you to have kids, if you
know that it wouldn't be conducive to the life you
(26:36):
want to live, then you wouldn't have a kid, because
bringing a kid into that sort of life and knowing
that you wouldn't be able to give it the attention
or the, you know, the time that it requires would be,
you know, kind of selfish on your part. And the
same is with a guide dog. Like, if you can't
look after a guide dog, if you can't meet its
basic needs, there's probably no point in having one. And
(26:57):
if you can do well without it and keep using
the cane, then there's kind of no reason to change.
S2 (27:02):
Well, I have known plenty of blind people who have
also made that choice as well, and who've, um, got
by perfectly well without it. And even there's a couple
of people I know who have, well, have pet dogs
and have decided not to get a guide dog because
it probably wouldn't get along with the pet dogs. So. Anyway,
we're going to finish off with Anthony. He'll have the
last say before we, um, wrap for this week.
S10 (27:26):
I tend to prefer to use a guide dog. Uh,
that's mainly because I've been using guide dogs for 40 years,
and I've just gotten so used to it that, um, um,
I don't like using the white cane. Um, although I
will use the white cane and occasionally if I'm going
to places that aren't, um, good for for guide dogs,
(27:48):
you know, like live concerts perhaps, uh, quite often. Don't
like taking the dog to a barbecue because people want
to feed the dog and it presents a big hassle.
So just take the cane instead. But, um, interesting story
was based on discrimination. How I got a guide dog. Uh,
because particularly my parents, and I've seen this happen time
(28:10):
and time again. For some reason they think you're incompetent.
If you're using a white cane they think you need
they need something else to help you. And they think
a guide dog is is going to, um, be the
answer to blindness. And it's not. It's just another tool.
A dog is, well, equally dangerous as a white cane
and equally safe as a white cane. So it depends
(28:32):
on the person using it. And but my parents thought,
because you're blind, that stereotypical thing of people with disabilities
are useless and accident prone and can't walk up steps
without breaking their neck. They thought the dog would be
the answer. So I was sort of talked into a
dog pretty quickly. Um, because just a peer group, family pressure,
(28:53):
I guess. And um, and it's cute and cuddly, so
it's not a hard thing to accept. And, um, and
I got my first guide dog and, and I just
that as much as I did the white cane and
had great fun with it. And in fact, I, I
enjoyed my dog so well after, I think one year
using a guide dog, I hitchhiked around Australia and New
(29:15):
Zealand with it. So, um, which I could have done
with the cane as well, but um, I just had
the dog at the time, so I thought I'd run
with the dog.
S3 (29:24):
I was gonna say that, uh, I guess hitchhiking would
be safer with the dog. But I do remember the
story that he told us for International Guide Dog Day,
so it might not be particularly true, that it's safer.
S10 (29:36):
Well there's that. I do feel a little bit safer
with the dog, because it has that extra deterrent with
some people, and not that the dogs would ever attack
anybody in defense, but at least it gives other it
gives people a second thought. If you're traveling late at night,
you feel safer because you've got your dog with you
and so on. And also getting back to the dating situation,
(29:58):
if you've got a guide dog, probably the best thing
ever to pull in the chicks, as they say, or
my mates or I say, he's a chick magnet and
he is.
S11 (30:07):
Is that what you say?
S10 (30:08):
Yep.
S11 (30:09):
Is it you that's the chick magnet or the dog?
S10 (30:11):
No, it's the dog. It's the dog. The dog going
to try and capitalize on it if I can. And
it can be a bit rude because people really aren't
interested in the dog. Yeah, you can get a bit
disheartening if they're not new at all. That can be
a bit annoying, but that's part of having a dog.
The dog is the attraction and also you're taking the
dog into places where dogs aren't supposed to be. So
(30:35):
you're going to stand out whether you like it or not,
which is where the negative sides of having a guide dog.
One of the beauties of having the cane is when
you get to your destination, you can fold it up,
put it away, and nobody knows you're blind. You're not
advertising it as as opposed to you are with a
guide dog. So you get a better chance being treated.
Treated equally until they realize you are blind and then
(30:57):
you're back to square one.
S3 (30:58):
That's a wrap for this week. A big thanks to Alex, Maddie, Lily, Josh, Tori, Sean,
and Anthony for sharing your stories with us this week.
S2 (31:08):
And well done remembering all of that. And of course,
thank you for listening, including our listeners on the Reading
Radio Network. You can find the podcast of this program,
including quite often, some extra content on Apple, Spotify, Google
or your favorite podcast platform.
S3 (31:24):
Next week, we celebrate Book Week in style.
S2 (31:28):
Lizzie catches up with Lesley Heaney from Braille House, and
we ask our choir of angels how they prefer to
read that great tome or slightly trashy romance.
S3 (31:39):
But between now and then you can get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (31:56):
You can reach us via Email Studio one at org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (32:02):
Org or of course, you can find us on Facebook
or Instagram by searching for VA Radio Network. We want
to hear from you.
S1 (32:12):
Studio one was produced in the Adelaide studios of Vision
Australia Radio. This show was made possible with the help
of the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at.
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