January 28, 2025 • 36 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
"TAXI!"
We tackle a subject that is the bane of many Assistance Dog Users, refusal on Taxis or Ride share.
Lizzie talks to Annette (whom we spoke to last year about her book "Molly and Maple") and Janice. They talk about their many experiences; how that affects them personally and what, they believe, should be the consequences for the drivers. Lizzie also tells us of some of her experiences.
We then replay an interview conducted by Peter Greco last year with Olivia Barry from 13Cabs where she outlines a new feature in their booking app which MAY provide a solution to the problem.
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
A special thank you to Annette and Janice for sharing their stories.
Thank you once more to Peter Greco for allowing us use of his interview with Olivia Cooper. You can find the full interview here: https://omny.fm/shows/focal-point/18-dec-2024 (30 min 30 seconds)
You can provide your own feedback to 13Cabs by emailing: customer.care@13cabs.com.au
Vision Australia gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:05):
This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio. No questions.
S2 (00:09):
About it. The law is the law. I'm sure when
they do get their taxi license, I'm sure that there
would be something in there stating, you know, that guide
dogs are allowed, that they can't refuse them.
S3 (00:26):
Hello, I'm Lizzie. And I'm Sam, and this is Studio One,
your weekly look at life from a low vision blind
point of view. Here on Vision Australia Radio.
S4 (00:36):
On this week's show.
S3 (00:37):
Have you ever been refused access to a taxi or rideshare? Well,
you're not alone. This week we talk to three dog
guide handlers about their experiences.
S4 (00:47):
And I believe you've got a few things to talk about.
S3 (00:49):
Oh, yes, I do.
S4 (00:51):
We also replay an interview with Olivia Berry from one
three Cabs. Have they found a solution to the problem?
S3 (00:57):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One. Or if you think there's something we should
be talking about, you never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S4 (01:15):
You can email us Studio One at org. That's studio
One at org.
S3 (01:21):
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our Facebook.
Just go to facebook.com slash VA Radio network.
S4 (01:27):
So. Hello, Lizzie.
S3 (01:29):
Hello, Sam. How are we today?
S4 (01:31):
We are fine. And we are dealing with, uh, a
topic that is, well, extremely inflammatory in its own way.
It's amazing how, uh, you just scratch a little bit
and a lot of stuff happens.
S3 (01:44):
Yeah, it's actually a wonder we hadn't done this episode sooner.
It's quite a contentious issue, and a lot of people
have a lot of things to say about it, and
not all of it good. But, um, I think it's
something that as a guide dog, uh, seeing eye dog
handler myself, we've all experienced this and.
S4 (02:01):
Well, this is something I've noticed myself is listening to
people talking about it in the past, and the only
people that don't seem to have experienced this issue are
either married and are driven around everywhere by their significant other,
or are still living at home and are driven everywhere
by their parents. So if you don't use a taxi
(02:22):
or rideshare, you don't get, um, refused by one.
S3 (02:25):
Yeah, well, I believe, uh, Annette said in the first
interview that we'll listen to that when we are refused
our dog guides in the cab. It inhibits us from
being able to move in the community independently. And that's
the key thing we're trying to maintain or improve our
level of independence.
S4 (02:42):
So one of the reasons why we are covering this
topic in this episode is, uh, recently, uh, the company
one three Cabs has changed its system to allow users to, well,
be tracked a lot easier. We will be coming to
that later on in this episode. Um, replaying an interview
that was done by Peter Greco on the Focal point
(03:03):
program at the end of last year. But first, let's
jump straight in and talk to both. Uh, well, you
can introduce them, I suppose. Lizzie.
S3 (03:14):
Yes? We're going to be talking to Annette Holden and
Janice Woodall. So, Annette, when I first asked, um, people
to comment on the refusal of guide dogs in taxis
and rideshare vehicles, you were the first one to respond.
Can you tell me why you're so passionate about this topic?
Taxi and rideshare refusals are one of the biggest barriers
(03:36):
I find to accessing normal community life. Um. I've been
late to a funeral. I've missed a very important medical
appointment with my then teenage daughter, and it was really important.
And she was there on her own without her mother,
because the taxi refused to take my guide dog. I've
been late to the airport. I've missed very important meetings,
(04:00):
and it's so common. It's not occasional, it's regular. And
that is not okay. In a civilized society, and especially
when it is the law that we are to be
conveyed or transported like anybody else. Alice, thank you for
coming on to the show. Firstly, tell me, how long
have you been a dog guide handler? For four years.
(04:22):
And in that time, how many refusals do you think
that you've had?
S2 (04:26):
Are you just referring to taxis? Yeah.
S3 (04:28):
Taxis or Uber? Either one.
S2 (04:30):
Um, I don't know. I probably can't count that high in.
S3 (04:33):
Comparison to, uh, which one would you say has the worst, uh,
ratio of refusals? Taxis or.
S2 (04:39):
Ubers? Uber?
S3 (04:40):
Definitely. Uber. Yeah.
S2 (04:41):
Uber. Yeah.
S3 (04:42):
Do you have any thoughts as to why you think
that is?
S2 (04:45):
Put them politely, I say, because they're new Australians.
S3 (04:47):
That's a pretty common.
S2 (04:49):
It's just I'm trying to be polite. If I was
talking to friends, I would say it in other words.
S3 (04:52):
But yeah, of course. No, that's a pretty common thing
that a lot of people have said. And, uh, what
do you think should happen to drivers that refuse to
take dogs.
S2 (05:04):
Different states have different laws. I'm sure you would know
all of this. Here we have the laws with jihad,
the guide hearing assistance dogs. It's Queensland government department.
S3 (05:13):
They have different rules. Um, regarding ride share refusals.
S2 (05:17):
Uh, I put a complaint in with jihad every time
because there's a fine if you refuse a guide dog,
whether it's accommodation, a restaurant, a clothing store, a taxi, whatever,
there's a fine. But jihad never finds anyone because they
can't be bothered doing the paperwork. Um, I.
S3 (05:32):
Was giving a seminar up in the Adelaide Hills, so
it was a very big fair. And the taxi refused
to come when they found out that there was a
guide dog. And, I mean, I was the person leading
the session. I had to be there. And it took
the involvement of a lot of people to actually get
me there on time by the skin of my teeth.
(05:53):
Of course, my stress levels were absolutely through the roof,
but every time there's a refusal, it's stressful. Anytime I
actually book a taxi, I'm stressed because I'm always concerned
as to whether or not it will turn up. Especially
if I'm travelling interstate. And will I? Or will I
not make the plane? Make the flight? It's always on
my mind that I may not get there. Which and again,
(06:16):
that's not okay. Absolutely not. And do you book the
taxis beforehand like, um. Oh, yes. The night before or something. Yeah.
Yes yes yes. And I've actually seen them drive up
because I have 2% sight. I can actually see them
drive up, actually notice the dog because then they take off.
There's a side street that goes off from my house
(06:37):
and I and they've actually stood and seen them look
at the dog and go down the side street. And
now with the advance booking and my, um, technology on
my phone, I can track where they've gone and where
they're heading. And I've actually had arguments with their actual
companies saying they saw me and they've taken off down
that street. They're gone. And the companies have argued, oh, no, no, no,
(06:59):
they're just lost. Well, they're not lost because it's all
on the tracker.
S2 (07:03):
Let's pretend that you're an Uber driver, that every time
you get into because it's your personal car, every time
you get into your personal car and log on to
your Uber platform. Did you know that a thing comes
up stating that you have to allow guide dogs in
your car?
S3 (07:20):
Well, no, I didn't, but they do.
S2 (07:23):
But no one bloody reads it because they just scroll
and then hit the tick button, the tick box, you know,
to say yes, I've read it and people have a
go at me and say, well, Janice, you should have
ordered a pet friendly Uber. And it's like, well, you've
got to wait longer because not all Ubers say yes
to pets. And plus you got to pay extra money.
(07:46):
And thirdly, my guide dog is not a pet.
S3 (07:50):
Yeah, exactly.
S2 (07:51):
I don't I just don't go out. I stay at home.
I just don't anymore.
S3 (07:55):
What do you say to people who say things like, oh,
just tell them that them that you've got a guide dog.
I sometimes do. In fact, I usually do put it
into the booking just so that they're aware, because it's.
I'd rather not have the argument, quite frankly, and I'd
rather be picked up and have someone who's kind and,
and wants to convey us. But we don't have to
by law. We don't have to report that we do.
(08:18):
And then, of course, I think it potentially less likely
that we'll be left standing on the corner if we
haven't reported it at one time. And that was actually,
of all places at disability rights premises in a very
busy part of the city. There were taxis back and
forward all the time. It took me three hours to
get a taxi because and it had been pre-booked by
(08:39):
that organisation. But every time they saw the dog they
drove off and that was not, that was all of
the companies that wasn't even just one company. And like,
it was just disgusting. There's no other word for it.
S2 (08:51):
I was in South Australia, I was in Adelaide for a, um,
a Cornish festival, and I flew back to Brisbane. You know,
the guide dog gets her own seat on the plane.
Pretty sure you'd understand that. Got off the plane and
picked up my luggage and then went to the taxi rank.
And they had a marshal there who, you know, puts
(09:11):
everyone in line and gets me in a cab. And then, uh,
the marshal said, uh, you go to number six. So
we waited at number six. The cab pulled up, he
got out, he put my luggage in the boot and
then said, there's no more room for your dog in
the boot. You'll have to leave the dog behind.
S3 (09:32):
Wait, what?
S2 (09:33):
Yeah, this is what he said. I said he is
a guide dog. He will come in the car with me.
And he's like, no no no no no. No dogs.
I said, he's a guide dog. It's against the law
to refuse a guide dog. Yeah. And he just went
on and on and on. The marshal started saying, mate,
you've got to take the dog. And then I pulled
(09:54):
out my camera and started recording everything. Uh, Our security
came out and, you know, started on me. And I said,
what's wrong? And she said, you know, you raise your voice.
I said, this won't let me in the cab. He's
refusing my dog. And she says, oh, this happens all
the time. I said, well, do something about it. Like,
you can't just tell me to shut up when I'm
(10:14):
fighting for my basic rights. And then the taxi driver
was saying, when I filled out the form, it said,
do you want to allow pets? And I said, no.
He said, so we're not allowing your pet. And then
another taxi driver pulled up and stopped, got out of
the cab and come towards us because he could hear
the argument. And then the taxi driver that I was
(10:37):
arguing with said to the other driver, he says, you
tell her, you tell her. And the guy said, oh, what?
He says, I don't want to take the dog. And
he says, mate, it's a guide dog. You've got to
take the dog. Ah, yeah. To kiss him, you know
what I mean?
S3 (10:54):
Yeah, exactly. Oh, see, I've had that happen too. But
then I've sort of felt unsafe going into the cab
with that person that's refused initially because then you're like, well,
how are they going to treat me when I get
in the cab and we're away from exactly the guy,
and is he going to look after me the same
way that he would have otherwise?
S2 (11:12):
Like, I wouldn't get in with him because of that
exact reason. And the security made him leave, and they
have to pay a fee to enter the airport. So
he paid the fee to enter the airport and then
got kicked out. So he technically he, you know, he
lost out and they said, and don't come back for
(11:33):
24 hours.
S3 (11:35):
Wow. That's intense.
S2 (11:37):
And then they lined me up with another taxi driver
and I said, are you going to have my dog?
And he said, yeah, it's a guide dog. And I'm like, fine,
you know. Thank you. And I went through I reported
a jihad. Jihad says, oh, we'll just send him some
information he doesn't understand. And so I went to the police,
(11:58):
and that was where the police officer said, if he
doesn't want you to take your dog, he doesn't have to.
And so I had to go to the cop. And
then this bloke ended up getting getting a fine from
the police. And I also lodged a complaint with human rights.
And it was with 13 cabs. And they said we
are not responsible for any of the drivers. We are
just a platform. It is not our issue.
S3 (12:21):
I've even been on parliamentary committees into problems with rideshare
and taxis, and the same problems continue ten years later.
It seems that we fix one problem and the next
one arises. And I'm tired of it. Oh, absolutely, I
can imagine. So in an ideal world, what systems would
(12:45):
you like to see put in place for drivers that
either don't comply or don't know they should lose their license?
And and in those meetings, it was argued that there
should be more than one strike and they're out. I.
In fact, it was suggested it should be three. That
means we're going to be overlooked by an awful lot
of taxi drivers. Potentially. I'm really of the view that
(13:09):
given that the companies all say they're trained, the drivers
are trained and they know the law and they have
the stickers in the car saying guide Dogs welcome. And
quite often it is people with those stickers on the
cars that do the refusals or carry on and put
on an act. Once we're in the car about, oh,
I don't want a dirty dog. And that's a direct quote.
I don't want a dirty dog in my car and
(13:30):
my dogs, and as yours have been, are the most beautiful, clean,
well-behaved dogs you'd ever meet. Better than most passengers, I suggest.
How human passengers, I suggest. I think you might be right.
So I'm actually a hardline view that if they're as
trained as they are, as we're told. And that's the
argument that's always given when complaints are made. Then one
(13:53):
strike and they're out. Unless they have a very, very
good reason. Because you're law. It's also just kindness and and, um, ethical.
But it's the law.
S1 (14:05):
This is studio one on Vision Australia radio.
S2 (14:11):
I don't leave the house at all anymore unless I
have a support worker to pick me up and drive
me somewhere. And then even then, there's refusals everywhere we go, like,
you know, accommodation and pubs, you know, cafes and stuff.
You get refused everywhere here. But at least I can go,
you know, my support worker will pick me up and
(14:33):
take us to because I do park run. That's our
day out. That is our life is parkrun every Saturday morning.
That's it. That's all I have because in Queensland you
get refused entry everywhere. Even government departments like the community, um,
you know, the community centres where you go and do.
S5 (14:53):
Yep, Knitting.
S2 (14:54):
Classes, all that sort of crap. You even get refused
entry there in the government based community centers. Yeah, you
get refused there everywhere. You get refused everywhere in Queensland.
So don't go. Don't leave the house.
S3 (15:06):
Or don't move to Queensland.
S2 (15:07):
Yeah, well, I made that stupid mistake. No.
S3 (15:10):
So when you've complained about cab drivers or Ubers refusing
your guide dogs, what's the usual reporting process that you undergo? Oh,
I've tried it all. I've. I've gone through the companies
and you might as well whistled to the wind. I've
gone to parliamentarians and I've gone to the department, and
I've gone to ministers offices and then to the department.
(15:34):
I've gone to the disability commissioner, and it's just never ending. Um,
and I know that the department has, has taken the
reports seriously. I've. I've had, um, interstate witnesses actually provide
witness statements, and but it still continues. If so, in
all the times that you have reported these refusals and
(15:56):
all the hoops that you've jumped through, are you aware
of any individual drivers having to deal with any consequences? No,
I think not. And also, I have been told that
due to privacy legislation, I can't be told. Now, in
some circumstances where I didn't even know who the driver was, like,
(16:17):
there was no I had no record of their name
or anything like that. I can't see how that legislation
would be necessary. But the answer is no. I know
that there's different laws involved there, so it is a
bit awkward. But in some circumstances when it's been particularly traumatic,
particularly awful, where a driver actually effectively kidnapped me at
(16:38):
night and um, and in fact, a member of, of
a minister in the government actually came to my aid, um,
because he literally was driving in the wrong direction and
refused to let me get out of out of the
taxi and and then dump me in the middle of nowhere.
This is some years ago now. I hasten to add. But, um,
(16:59):
that's actually the worst thing that's happened. Um, as you
can imagine, anybody would be terrified in that situation. Fortunately,
I did have, um, a personal number for this politician,
and and the person came to my assistance. Um, and again,
I've no idea what the repercussions were for the driver
when I actually, I phoned the company from the back
(17:19):
of the taxi, and, and I was telling them what
was happening, and they just kept saying, oh, the driver's right.
The driver knows where he's going, the driver knows what
he's doing. And I said, well, the driver's locked the
door and I've asked to get out and the driver
will not let me out. And, um, so, you know,
that's that's the sort of rubbish that we deal with.
And I'm not alone. I've heard this from other people, too.
And South Australia is not the only place I've had
(17:41):
similar and numerous experiences in Melbourne and Sydney as well. So, so, um,
and when you ask before about Uber, yes, I had
an experience in Sydney, um, with a group of friends
from overseas and interstate, and the, um, one of the
friends from overseas actually booked a pet Uber and and
(18:01):
I said, oh, that wasn't necessary because she, my dog
can go in Uber. And anyway, the pet Uber drove
off with this man still arguing that she's a guide dog,
which was irrelevant because it was a pet Uber. And
and he was literally the car was driving. Well, he
was still hanging out of the back of the car.
If it was a TV movie or show or something,
(18:21):
people would think it was rubbish. They'd think it was nonsensical. Well,
I have to say yes, listening to those interviews, that
there are a lot of common issues that dog guide handlers, um,
face when it comes to taxi refusals. And I have
quite a lot of my own stories. I've found to
most of my trouble to be more with Uber, because
(18:43):
the system with which you can report the drivers is
a lot more inaccessible. But the craziest story that I've
had is I was at my friend's house and I
had Lacey with me, and I was trying to find
my way home, and I called a cab to come
and pick me up, and he refused the dog. Now
my friend gets quite animated about these sort of things,
(19:05):
and she will argue till the cows come home. She
was sitting in the front passenger seat of the cab
arguing with the driver, and he has started driving off
with her feet and legs hanging out and the door
open while she's trying to have an argument with him
about how it's illegal to refuse a guide dog. So
I think that's the craziest story I've ever come across.
S4 (19:26):
But it's not the only one, is it?
S3 (19:28):
No, no, it's not the only one. It's it's so
scary how common that is, because this stuff happens in
real life to a lot of people.
S4 (19:36):
I think one of the problems here is, well, it's cultural.
There are certain cultures that regard dogs to be unclean.
In fact, if you if the worst thing you can
say to perhaps a Arab or a muslim is to
call them a dog. So there are problems there, but, well,
(19:58):
they're living in our country and they are doing a
job that well, part of it is transporting people with
a guide dog.
S3 (20:06):
Yes, a lot of people share the similar opinion, you know,
as blind people. We all have jobs that we would
love to do but aren't able to do because of
our or because of our lack of sight.
S4 (20:17):
Well, we can't drive a cab.
S3 (20:18):
Exactly. But in in the same sort of vein, if
your job is to interact with the public and you
know that it's possible that you might have the experience
of having to transport someone with a guide dog, you
can't refuse that. So if you're not willing to actually
do that, then I think it's a bit crazy to
be working a job where that sort of thing is
(20:39):
possible to happen.
S4 (20:40):
And the fact that government doesn't seem to do anything
about it. This is this is the thing that fascinates me,
is all across Australia, you've got fines that are around
about $10,000, but they might as well be $1 million,
or they might as well be $1, because if they're
not enforced, then you might as well not have a
fine at all.
S3 (21:00):
This, again, is something that's very commonly said by a
lot of people in the responses that I got. And
by the way, thank you. I was inundated with responses
from people that wanted to talk about this. There was,
like I said, a lot of common threads, and that
was another one. When you complain to somebody about these incidents,
they pass the buck and nobody is willing to take
(21:23):
responsibility for the actions of their drivers. The companies aren't
willing to take responsibility. The Human Rights Commission apparently says
it's just a platform. Like there's a lot of stuff
I'm hearing from people. It's not just 1 or 2
people saying this stuff. There's a lot of people out
there saying the same thing. Somebody needs to take responsibility.
S4 (21:43):
And it's not exactly as if there are aren't any precedents.
I mean, if someone parks in the wrong place or
overstays their paid parking, they get a ticket for it
and they have to pay the fine. It surprises me
that someone being denied their mobility, being, uh, you know,
stopped from going home even, or trapped in the middle
(22:05):
of nowhere, doesn't get some sort of, um, you know, fine.
If they lodge a complaint. It's, uh, it's a really
strange thing. So the consequence of stranding somebody is less
than parking in a loading zone.
S3 (22:19):
Yeah, exactly. And again, it's because it's not being reinforced.
Like there are fines in place, depending on who you
talk to, which company or which state you're in. There
are systems put in place where fines should be put out,
like the amounts are set, but nobody reinforces it. If
they reinforce that as much as they reinforce parking tickets
or speeding fines, they would collect so much revenue. It's crazy.
S4 (22:44):
It's a mystery. And if we can find a single, uh,
politician or government official to talk to. Then maybe they
can explain it. But we have maybe a light at
the end of the tunnel, and we're hoping that that
light is not an oncoming train, but end of last year.
Peter Greco spoke to Olivia Barry from One Three Cabs
(23:04):
and we'll play the interview now.
S6 (23:08):
Now this is very, very exciting. Tell us what you've
done as far as your app goes.
S7 (23:12):
Okay, so Peter, we know there is an ongoing requirement
to keep improving the way we look after passengers who
are travelling with a guide dog or an assistance animal.
And we have made it, you know, part of our
mission to really continue to look at ways to improve that.
And we have made some changes in our app that
(23:36):
we think will provide a good step forward in the
right direction with this. So passengers travelling with a guide
dog or an assistance animal Can nominate that they are
doing so when they make a booking on our one
three club's app. And what that does is a couple
of things in the background. When that booking is sent
(23:59):
out to our cars, the driver will not be able
to see that the passenger has made that nomination, that
they're travelling with the guide dog or an assistance dog.
They'll just accept a job as it comes through. But
once they accept the job, we will send a notification
to the driver directly into their car to remind them
(24:20):
of their obligations under the law when picking up passengers
with guide dogs and assistance animals. And we'll also remind
them to provide great service. And we think by doing
that and giving the driver that warning that we will
facilitate more successful trips.
S6 (24:39):
Okay, so I guess in a sense it's kind of
a prompt to say, you know, these are your responsibilities
here it is in writing, as it as it were.
Act appropriately.
S7 (24:47):
That's exactly right. And the other thing it enables us
to do is watch the booking more closely. So we
know that booking is sort of flagged in our system,
if you like. And we have four call centres across Australia,
and we have supervisors who watch our particular jobs to
(25:07):
make sure that they are picked up and this will
come through as one of those jobs that will sort
of be treated with a little bit more special attention,
and it gives us the opportunity to make sure the
driver does the right thing or deal with that driver
in real time.
S6 (25:25):
Well, that's really, really important, isn't it? Because, yeah, I'm
sure you've heard stories of people waiting for a cab.
The cab turns up and then the driver says, no, no,
I'm not taking you. And away they go. And of course,
you know, hey, the passengers kind of lost or what
do I do now and then in terms of some
remedial action being taken, time can elapse.
S7 (25:42):
That's exactly right. And we know that when we speak
to drivers in real time about issues, we get much
better results in terms of re-educating them or disciplining them
if we need to. So we think that's a big
positive to come out of this. And it means that
(26:04):
the drivers know they're being watched a bit more closely
to not a bad thing either.
S6 (26:08):
No. Fair enough. Yeah. So this is for one three cabs.
And this is kind of applicable right throughout Australia.
S7 (26:14):
Right throughout Australia. So one three cabs app is available
across Australia. And it could dispatch either 2 or 1
three cab or a silver service cab. Or in Perth
we have Swan Taxis co-branded with one three cabs. Can
you give us.
S6 (26:31):
A bit of an idea of how this has come
about and why? I guess I can kind of guess,
as I said, and it's not just one three cabs, but,
you know, some of the rideshare people also get accused
of not picking up people. I guess this is kind
of trying to kind of be proactive and do something
before it gets to that stage.
S7 (26:48):
One three cabs. And personally myself, we have been working
in this space actively for a long time with Guide
Dogs Australia and also with Assistance Animals Australia on educational
videos and different methods we can use to communicate to
drivers about this issue, and then other ways we can
(27:10):
use our technology to keep improving the situation. And it's
something that we come together as a team across our business,
with our customer care team, our contact centre team that
look after drivers and our tech team to continue to improve.
And we have had some input across the last six
(27:34):
months with some dedicated focus groups, which includes passengers who
are travelling with guide dogs or assistance animals, or are
who are visually impaired to give us that direct feedback
about the experiences they've been having.
S6 (27:50):
Just to clarify, people have got to kind of go
into the app and change their sexual preferences or their settings.
S7 (27:57):
That's right. That's right. Okay.
S6 (28:00):
So yeah. Yeah. So it's up to the individual to
kind of go into the app and also then put
the settings so that the people when they received the
book and get get that information.
S7 (28:11):
That's right. So in the top left hand corner when
you open the app is a little hamburger menu. And
you just tap that and then you tap profile, which
will be your profile where you've loaded your own information.
And in that screen it says travelling with an assistance animal.
And you just click it and change the setting which
(28:35):
is set to no to yes.
S6 (28:37):
Okay. Yeah. So you got it. You got to kind
of change that. Yep. You got to kind of change
it to say yes. You are travelling with an assistance
animal and, uh, and that's pretty much it and all
about it.
S7 (28:47):
That's it then? Yep. Then it'll stay there on your profile.
And as you book taxis, that set of rules that
happens in the background will just happen.
S6 (28:55):
All right. And, uh, I think, uh, in your media
release that you put out, you've actually said that if
people do have a little bit of difficulty or if
it's a little bit challenging to, uh, work with the app,
you're more than happy for people to contact you and say, help.
Give me a hand.
S7 (29:10):
Absolutely. So we have a customer care team, um, available
to help. And also who like we really like to
get people's feedback as that continues to help us, um,
understand different situations. So we encourage people to please contact
us and give us feedback as they're using this. Um,
(29:31):
that would be great.
S6 (29:32):
So in a sense, this is, um, an ongoing project.
I mean, it's absolutely an initiative, but, uh, you're always
leaving a bit of room for improvement or to make
it better tomorrow than it is today.
S7 (29:42):
100% Peter and will continue with our focus groups, because
I'm sure there's more we can do in this space. Um,
not only with our own technology, but by speaking to
regulators across the states as well. Uh, to help make
sure drivers who do the wrong thing, uh, are dealt
with appropriately.
S6 (30:01):
Now, is this actually started now, or is this.
S7 (30:04):
Yes. Yes. Available now. Available now. Yep.
S6 (30:07):
Alright. So obviously 132227 is one three cabs is phone number.
Have you got that email address handy there Olivia if
you want to give feedback. Yeah.
S7 (30:15):
Yes. Customer care at one three cabs.com. You can also
go to our website and find your way through to
the customer care feedback form there.
S4 (30:32):
Okay. So Lizzy, um, it's the first time you've heard
that interview. Uh, what did you think?
S3 (30:36):
Well, I know I had a few questions, uh, related
to this and a few concerns. My first one would
be like, what are your metrics of success and how
are you going to track the waiting times of people
with dog like handlers as compared to others? Is that
going to be a factor that they look at as well? Yeah,
(30:57):
I had like I said, I had so many people
inundate me with responses and questions that they wanted to
ask one three calves if they ever had the chance.
And I know those were just a few of my concerns.
What about you, Sam?
S4 (31:10):
Uh, one thing that I've noticed is, okay, so they're
not telling the drivers that the person is using an
assistance animal. However, if that particular message is coming across
only when they're dispatching a job that happens to have
an assistance animal, then I don't think it's going to
take long for drivers to put two and two together there.
(31:32):
So I think they need to be, uh, randomly putting
that message out with other jobs as well. So there
is a lack of Lack of predictability there. That would
be one thing that I would notice. Also, I think
if they're tracing this, if drivers are still refusing the fares,
they should be sending out a spreadsheet to the owners
(31:54):
of the taxis and saying, by the way, these are
the jobs that your drivers have refused and this is
the amount of money you have lost thanks to it,
because I think going on people's decency hasn't worked. However,
the bottom line is the bottom line. And if they've
(32:15):
lost money because somebody, um, doesn't like dogs, I think
that would speak louder. I mean, what do you think?
S3 (32:22):
I agree with you, and I think it's sad that
we're in a day and age when people's sense of
conscience won't win out and that you have to, you know, like,
threaten their livelihoods in order to get the appropriate response.
It's quite sad. Um, you know, we've gone over what
people have experienced. And I was saying to you off
air before, it can be really scary, especially if you're
(32:44):
in the in the middle of nowhere or in the
middle of the city and you're trying to get home,
and that's the only way that you can get home.
It can be scary. So this sort of stuff should
be taken with a bit more seriousness than it currently
is by a lot of other companies and things, I believe.
S4 (32:58):
And my government in general.
S3 (33:00):
And yet government in general as well. But all the
peak bodies and all that.
S4 (33:03):
Mhm. So this is not the last time that we
are going to be tackling this subject this year. In fact, um,
I will um disclose now that currently one three Cabs
is a station sponsor. So we will be sending a
link to this podcast to, um, Olivia who have just
heard from and we'll give it, say, 3 to 6
(33:25):
months and see how things are going. And if she
wants to actually have a chat with us as well.
The reason why I chose to replay the interview that
was done last year was I don't think I could
have covered anything better than Peter did, and I didn't
see the point of going over old ground. And I
think we need to wait to see if this succeeds
(33:46):
or not, to, um, judge whether it was worthwhile or not.
I mean, yeah, what do you think about that, Lizzie?
S3 (33:52):
I agree there's been a lot of misinformation going around
about this new update to the system, and a lot
of people have gotten the wrong idea. Now, from what
I heard of the interview and what she was saying,
this is a lot more than what a lot of
companies have done prior to this. At least one three
cabs is giving it a go and trying to put
(34:13):
some system in place. I think a lot of people
misconstrue why the system has been put in place, and
they feel a bit targeted by the fact that they've
been asked to, you know, disclose whether they have an
assistance animal. But, you know, I think we should give
it a chance to see how it goes.
S4 (34:29):
Well, they can't really do much if they, uh, don't
have a registration system. That's the big thing here. So
it's a case of keeping track of who is there.
And so once they've actually got that on their system,
then we'll see how we go. And I think we
can congratulate them for trying to do something. And if
(34:49):
it doesn't work then, well, we'll take it from there.
So as I said, um, we will see what the
response of one three cabs and indeed any other rideshare
or taxi company is in, say 3 to 6 months
and see how we go. I think the other.
S3 (35:02):
Thing is to if they're keeping track of all the
people that register, the fact that they've got an assistance animal,
it's going to be a lot easier for these people
that get refusals to report back. At the moment, we're
just left with, you know, we have to email a
specific person or go to a website that can be
quite inaccessible at times. Whereas with this method, I think
it's a lot easier to flag it if it happens,
(35:24):
and it will be a lot easier to report and
deal with.
S4 (35:26):
Again, I think that the automated systems can be brought
into place with this one. But anyway, that is a
wrap for this week. A big thank you to Annette
and Janice. Also, thank you to Peter Greco for allowing
us to use the, uh, interview with Olivia Barry.
S3 (35:42):
And of course, a big thank you for listening. As usual,
you can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, Google, or
your favorite podcast platform.
S4 (35:52):
Next week we go over to Europe to talk to
Lars Bohinen from the European Blind Union.
S3 (35:58):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience with any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S4 (36:14):
You can email us Studio One at org. That's studio
number one at Vision Australia. Org.
S3 (36:20):
Well, feel free to look us up on social media,
whether that be Instagram or Facebook. Just search for VA
Radio Network. Bye for.
S1 (36:28):
Now. Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the
Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio. No questions.
S2 (00:09):
About it. The law is the law. I'm sure when
they do get their taxi license, I'm sure that there
would be something in there stating, you know, that guide
dogs are allowed, that they can't refuse them.
S3 (00:26):
Hello, I'm Lizzie. And I'm Sam, and this is Studio One,
your weekly look at life from a low vision blind
point of view. Here on Vision Australia Radio.
S4 (00:36):
On this week's show.
S3 (00:37):
Have you ever been refused access to a taxi or rideshare? Well,
you're not alone. This week we talk to three dog
guide handlers about their experiences.
S4 (00:47):
And I believe you've got a few things to talk about.
S3 (00:49):
Oh, yes, I do.
S4 (00:51):
We also replay an interview with Olivia Berry from one
three Cabs. Have they found a solution to the problem?
S3 (00:57):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One. Or if you think there's something we should
be talking about, you never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S4 (01:15):
You can email us Studio One at org. That's studio
One at org.
S3 (01:21):
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our Facebook.
Just go to facebook.com slash VA Radio network.
S4 (01:27):
So. Hello, Lizzie.
S3 (01:29):
Hello, Sam. How are we today?
S4 (01:31):
We are fine. And we are dealing with, uh, a
topic that is, well, extremely inflammatory in its own way.
It's amazing how, uh, you just scratch a little bit
and a lot of stuff happens.
S3 (01:44):
Yeah, it's actually a wonder we hadn't done this episode sooner.
It's quite a contentious issue, and a lot of people
have a lot of things to say about it, and
not all of it good. But, um, I think it's
something that as a guide dog, uh, seeing eye dog
handler myself, we've all experienced this and.
S4 (02:01):
Well, this is something I've noticed myself is listening to
people talking about it in the past, and the only
people that don't seem to have experienced this issue are
either married and are driven around everywhere by their significant other,
or are still living at home and are driven everywhere
by their parents. So if you don't use a taxi
(02:22):
or rideshare, you don't get, um, refused by one.
S3 (02:25):
Yeah, well, I believe, uh, Annette said in the first
interview that we'll listen to that when we are refused
our dog guides in the cab. It inhibits us from
being able to move in the community independently. And that's
the key thing we're trying to maintain or improve our
level of independence.
S4 (02:42):
So one of the reasons why we are covering this
topic in this episode is, uh, recently, uh, the company
one three Cabs has changed its system to allow users to, well,
be tracked a lot easier. We will be coming to
that later on in this episode. Um, replaying an interview
that was done by Peter Greco on the Focal point
(03:03):
program at the end of last year. But first, let's
jump straight in and talk to both. Uh, well, you
can introduce them, I suppose. Lizzie.
S3 (03:14):
Yes? We're going to be talking to Annette Holden and
Janice Woodall. So, Annette, when I first asked, um, people
to comment on the refusal of guide dogs in taxis
and rideshare vehicles, you were the first one to respond.
Can you tell me why you're so passionate about this topic?
Taxi and rideshare refusals are one of the biggest barriers
(03:36):
I find to accessing normal community life. Um. I've been
late to a funeral. I've missed a very important medical
appointment with my then teenage daughter, and it was really important.
And she was there on her own without her mother,
because the taxi refused to take my guide dog. I've
been late to the airport. I've missed very important meetings,
(04:00):
and it's so common. It's not occasional, it's regular. And
that is not okay. In a civilized society, and especially
when it is the law that we are to be
conveyed or transported like anybody else. Alice, thank you for
coming on to the show. Firstly, tell me, how long
have you been a dog guide handler? For four years.
(04:22):
And in that time, how many refusals do you think
that you've had?
S2 (04:26):
Are you just referring to taxis? Yeah.
S3 (04:28):
Taxis or Uber? Either one.
S2 (04:30):
Um, I don't know. I probably can't count that high in.
S3 (04:33):
Comparison to, uh, which one would you say has the worst, uh,
ratio of refusals? Taxis or.
S2 (04:39):
Ubers? Uber?
S3 (04:40):
Definitely. Uber. Yeah.
S2 (04:41):
Uber. Yeah.
S3 (04:42):
Do you have any thoughts as to why you think
that is?
S2 (04:45):
Put them politely, I say, because they're new Australians.
S3 (04:47):
That's a pretty common.
S2 (04:49):
It's just I'm trying to be polite. If I was
talking to friends, I would say it in other words.
S3 (04:52):
But yeah, of course. No, that's a pretty common thing
that a lot of people have said. And, uh, what
do you think should happen to drivers that refuse to
take dogs.
S2 (05:04):
Different states have different laws. I'm sure you would know
all of this. Here we have the laws with jihad,
the guide hearing assistance dogs. It's Queensland government department.
S3 (05:13):
They have different rules. Um, regarding ride share refusals.
S2 (05:17):
Uh, I put a complaint in with jihad every time
because there's a fine if you refuse a guide dog,
whether it's accommodation, a restaurant, a clothing store, a taxi, whatever,
there's a fine. But jihad never finds anyone because they
can't be bothered doing the paperwork. Um, I.
S3 (05:32):
Was giving a seminar up in the Adelaide Hills, so
it was a very big fair. And the taxi refused
to come when they found out that there was a
guide dog. And, I mean, I was the person leading
the session. I had to be there. And it took
the involvement of a lot of people to actually get
me there on time by the skin of my teeth.
(05:53):
Of course, my stress levels were absolutely through the roof,
but every time there's a refusal, it's stressful. Anytime I
actually book a taxi, I'm stressed because I'm always concerned
as to whether or not it will turn up. Especially
if I'm travelling interstate. And will I? Or will I
not make the plane? Make the flight? It's always on
my mind that I may not get there. Which and again,
(06:16):
that's not okay. Absolutely not. And do you book the
taxis beforehand like, um. Oh, yes. The night before or something. Yeah.
Yes yes yes. And I've actually seen them drive up
because I have 2% sight. I can actually see them
drive up, actually notice the dog because then they take off.
There's a side street that goes off from my house
(06:37):
and I and they've actually stood and seen them look
at the dog and go down the side street. And
now with the advance booking and my, um, technology on
my phone, I can track where they've gone and where
they're heading. And I've actually had arguments with their actual
companies saying they saw me and they've taken off down
that street. They're gone. And the companies have argued, oh, no, no, no,
(06:59):
they're just lost. Well, they're not lost because it's all
on the tracker.
S2 (07:03):
Let's pretend that you're an Uber driver, that every time
you get into because it's your personal car, every time
you get into your personal car and log on to
your Uber platform. Did you know that a thing comes
up stating that you have to allow guide dogs in
your car?
S3 (07:20):
Well, no, I didn't, but they do.
S2 (07:23):
But no one bloody reads it because they just scroll
and then hit the tick button, the tick box, you know,
to say yes, I've read it and people have a
go at me and say, well, Janice, you should have
ordered a pet friendly Uber. And it's like, well, you've
got to wait longer because not all Ubers say yes
to pets. And plus you got to pay extra money.
(07:46):
And thirdly, my guide dog is not a pet.
S3 (07:50):
Yeah, exactly.
S2 (07:51):
I don't I just don't go out. I stay at home.
I just don't anymore.
S3 (07:55):
What do you say to people who say things like, oh,
just tell them that them that you've got a guide dog.
I sometimes do. In fact, I usually do put it
into the booking just so that they're aware, because it's.
I'd rather not have the argument, quite frankly, and I'd
rather be picked up and have someone who's kind and,
and wants to convey us. But we don't have to
by law. We don't have to report that we do.
(08:18):
And then, of course, I think it potentially less likely
that we'll be left standing on the corner if we
haven't reported it at one time. And that was actually,
of all places at disability rights premises in a very
busy part of the city. There were taxis back and
forward all the time. It took me three hours to
get a taxi because and it had been pre-booked by
(08:39):
that organisation. But every time they saw the dog they
drove off and that was not, that was all of
the companies that wasn't even just one company. And like,
it was just disgusting. There's no other word for it.
S2 (08:51):
I was in South Australia, I was in Adelaide for a, um,
a Cornish festival, and I flew back to Brisbane. You know,
the guide dog gets her own seat on the plane.
Pretty sure you'd understand that. Got off the plane and
picked up my luggage and then went to the taxi rank.
And they had a marshal there who, you know, puts
(09:11):
everyone in line and gets me in a cab. And then, uh,
the marshal said, uh, you go to number six. So
we waited at number six. The cab pulled up, he
got out, he put my luggage in the boot and
then said, there's no more room for your dog in
the boot. You'll have to leave the dog behind.
S3 (09:32):
Wait, what?
S2 (09:33):
Yeah, this is what he said. I said he is
a guide dog. He will come in the car with me.
And he's like, no no no no no. No dogs.
I said, he's a guide dog. It's against the law
to refuse a guide dog. Yeah. And he just went
on and on and on. The marshal started saying, mate,
you've got to take the dog. And then I pulled
(09:54):
out my camera and started recording everything. Uh, Our security
came out and, you know, started on me. And I said,
what's wrong? And she said, you know, you raise your voice.
I said, this won't let me in the cab. He's
refusing my dog. And she says, oh, this happens all
the time. I said, well, do something about it. Like,
you can't just tell me to shut up when I'm
(10:14):
fighting for my basic rights. And then the taxi driver
was saying, when I filled out the form, it said,
do you want to allow pets? And I said, no.
He said, so we're not allowing your pet. And then
another taxi driver pulled up and stopped, got out of
the cab and come towards us because he could hear
the argument. And then the taxi driver that I was
(10:37):
arguing with said to the other driver, he says, you
tell her, you tell her. And the guy said, oh, what?
He says, I don't want to take the dog. And
he says, mate, it's a guide dog. You've got to
take the dog. Ah, yeah. To kiss him, you know
what I mean?
S3 (10:54):
Yeah, exactly. Oh, see, I've had that happen too. But
then I've sort of felt unsafe going into the cab
with that person that's refused initially because then you're like, well,
how are they going to treat me when I get
in the cab and we're away from exactly the guy,
and is he going to look after me the same
way that he would have otherwise?
S2 (11:12):
Like, I wouldn't get in with him because of that
exact reason. And the security made him leave, and they
have to pay a fee to enter the airport. So
he paid the fee to enter the airport and then
got kicked out. So he technically he, you know, he
lost out and they said, and don't come back for
(11:33):
24 hours.
S3 (11:35):
Wow. That's intense.
S2 (11:37):
And then they lined me up with another taxi driver
and I said, are you going to have my dog?
And he said, yeah, it's a guide dog. And I'm like, fine,
you know. Thank you. And I went through I reported
a jihad. Jihad says, oh, we'll just send him some
information he doesn't understand. And so I went to the police,
(11:58):
and that was where the police officer said, if he
doesn't want you to take your dog, he doesn't have to.
And so I had to go to the cop. And
then this bloke ended up getting getting a fine from
the police. And I also lodged a complaint with human rights.
And it was with 13 cabs. And they said we
are not responsible for any of the drivers. We are
just a platform. It is not our issue.
S3 (12:21):
I've even been on parliamentary committees into problems with rideshare
and taxis, and the same problems continue ten years later.
It seems that we fix one problem and the next
one arises. And I'm tired of it. Oh, absolutely, I
can imagine. So in an ideal world, what systems would
(12:45):
you like to see put in place for drivers that
either don't comply or don't know they should lose their license?
And and in those meetings, it was argued that there
should be more than one strike and they're out. I.
In fact, it was suggested it should be three. That
means we're going to be overlooked by an awful lot
of taxi drivers. Potentially. I'm really of the view that
(13:09):
given that the companies all say they're trained, the drivers
are trained and they know the law and they have
the stickers in the car saying guide Dogs welcome. And
quite often it is people with those stickers on the
cars that do the refusals or carry on and put
on an act. Once we're in the car about, oh,
I don't want a dirty dog. And that's a direct quote.
I don't want a dirty dog in my car and
(13:30):
my dogs, and as yours have been, are the most beautiful, clean,
well-behaved dogs you'd ever meet. Better than most passengers, I suggest.
How human passengers, I suggest. I think you might be right.
So I'm actually a hardline view that if they're as
trained as they are, as we're told. And that's the
argument that's always given when complaints are made. Then one
(13:53):
strike and they're out. Unless they have a very, very
good reason. Because you're law. It's also just kindness and and, um, ethical.
But it's the law.
S1 (14:05):
This is studio one on Vision Australia radio.
S2 (14:11):
I don't leave the house at all anymore unless I
have a support worker to pick me up and drive
me somewhere. And then even then, there's refusals everywhere we go, like,
you know, accommodation and pubs, you know, cafes and stuff.
You get refused everywhere here. But at least I can go,
you know, my support worker will pick me up and
(14:33):
take us to because I do park run. That's our
day out. That is our life is parkrun every Saturday morning.
That's it. That's all I have because in Queensland you
get refused entry everywhere. Even government departments like the community, um,
you know, the community centres where you go and do.
S5 (14:53):
Yep, Knitting.
S2 (14:54):
Classes, all that sort of crap. You even get refused
entry there in the government based community centers. Yeah, you
get refused there everywhere. You get refused everywhere in Queensland.
So don't go. Don't leave the house.
S3 (15:06):
Or don't move to Queensland.
S2 (15:07):
Yeah, well, I made that stupid mistake. No.
S3 (15:10):
So when you've complained about cab drivers or Ubers refusing
your guide dogs, what's the usual reporting process that you undergo? Oh,
I've tried it all. I've. I've gone through the companies
and you might as well whistled to the wind. I've
gone to parliamentarians and I've gone to the department, and
I've gone to ministers offices and then to the department.
(15:34):
I've gone to the disability commissioner, and it's just never ending. Um,
and I know that the department has, has taken the
reports seriously. I've. I've had, um, interstate witnesses actually provide
witness statements, and but it still continues. If so, in
all the times that you have reported these refusals and
(15:56):
all the hoops that you've jumped through, are you aware
of any individual drivers having to deal with any consequences? No,
I think not. And also, I have been told that
due to privacy legislation, I can't be told. Now, in
some circumstances where I didn't even know who the driver was, like,
(16:17):
there was no I had no record of their name
or anything like that. I can't see how that legislation
would be necessary. But the answer is no. I know
that there's different laws involved there, so it is a
bit awkward. But in some circumstances when it's been particularly traumatic,
particularly awful, where a driver actually effectively kidnapped me at
(16:38):
night and um, and in fact, a member of, of
a minister in the government actually came to my aid, um,
because he literally was driving in the wrong direction and
refused to let me get out of out of the
taxi and and then dump me in the middle of nowhere.
This is some years ago now. I hasten to add. But, um,
(16:59):
that's actually the worst thing that's happened. Um, as you
can imagine, anybody would be terrified in that situation. Fortunately,
I did have, um, a personal number for this politician,
and and the person came to my assistance. Um, and again,
I've no idea what the repercussions were for the driver
when I actually, I phoned the company from the back
(17:19):
of the taxi, and, and I was telling them what
was happening, and they just kept saying, oh, the driver's right.
The driver knows where he's going, the driver knows what
he's doing. And I said, well, the driver's locked the
door and I've asked to get out and the driver
will not let me out. And, um, so, you know,
that's that's the sort of rubbish that we deal with.
And I'm not alone. I've heard this from other people, too.
And South Australia is not the only place I've had
(17:41):
similar and numerous experiences in Melbourne and Sydney as well. So, so, um,
and when you ask before about Uber, yes, I had
an experience in Sydney, um, with a group of friends
from overseas and interstate, and the, um, one of the
friends from overseas actually booked a pet Uber and and
(18:01):
I said, oh, that wasn't necessary because she, my dog
can go in Uber. And anyway, the pet Uber drove
off with this man still arguing that she's a guide dog,
which was irrelevant because it was a pet Uber. And
and he was literally the car was driving. Well, he
was still hanging out of the back of the car.
If it was a TV movie or show or something,
(18:21):
people would think it was rubbish. They'd think it was nonsensical. Well,
I have to say yes, listening to those interviews, that
there are a lot of common issues that dog guide handlers, um,
face when it comes to taxi refusals. And I have
quite a lot of my own stories. I've found to
most of my trouble to be more with Uber, because
(18:43):
the system with which you can report the drivers is
a lot more inaccessible. But the craziest story that I've
had is I was at my friend's house and I
had Lacey with me, and I was trying to find
my way home, and I called a cab to come
and pick me up, and he refused the dog. Now
my friend gets quite animated about these sort of things,
(19:05):
and she will argue till the cows come home. She
was sitting in the front passenger seat of the cab
arguing with the driver, and he has started driving off
with her feet and legs hanging out and the door
open while she's trying to have an argument with him
about how it's illegal to refuse a guide dog. So
I think that's the craziest story I've ever come across.
S4 (19:26):
But it's not the only one, is it?
S3 (19:28):
No, no, it's not the only one. It's it's so
scary how common that is, because this stuff happens in
real life to a lot of people.
S4 (19:36):
I think one of the problems here is, well, it's cultural.
There are certain cultures that regard dogs to be unclean.
In fact, if you if the worst thing you can
say to perhaps a Arab or a muslim is to
call them a dog. So there are problems there, but, well,
(19:58):
they're living in our country and they are doing a
job that well, part of it is transporting people with
a guide dog.
S3 (20:06):
Yes, a lot of people share the similar opinion, you know,
as blind people. We all have jobs that we would
love to do but aren't able to do because of
our or because of our lack of sight.
S4 (20:17):
Well, we can't drive a cab.
S3 (20:18):
Exactly. But in in the same sort of vein, if
your job is to interact with the public and you
know that it's possible that you might have the experience
of having to transport someone with a guide dog, you
can't refuse that. So if you're not willing to actually
do that, then I think it's a bit crazy to
be working a job where that sort of thing is
(20:39):
possible to happen.
S4 (20:40):
And the fact that government doesn't seem to do anything
about it. This is this is the thing that fascinates me,
is all across Australia, you've got fines that are around
about $10,000, but they might as well be $1 million,
or they might as well be $1, because if they're
not enforced, then you might as well not have a
fine at all.
S3 (21:00):
This, again, is something that's very commonly said by a
lot of people in the responses that I got. And
by the way, thank you. I was inundated with responses
from people that wanted to talk about this. There was,
like I said, a lot of common threads, and that
was another one. When you complain to somebody about these incidents,
they pass the buck and nobody is willing to take
(21:23):
responsibility for the actions of their drivers. The companies aren't
willing to take responsibility. The Human Rights Commission apparently says
it's just a platform. Like there's a lot of stuff
I'm hearing from people. It's not just 1 or 2
people saying this stuff. There's a lot of people out
there saying the same thing. Somebody needs to take responsibility.
S4 (21:43):
And it's not exactly as if there are aren't any precedents.
I mean, if someone parks in the wrong place or
overstays their paid parking, they get a ticket for it
and they have to pay the fine. It surprises me
that someone being denied their mobility, being, uh, you know,
stopped from going home even, or trapped in the middle
(22:05):
of nowhere, doesn't get some sort of, um, you know, fine.
If they lodge a complaint. It's, uh, it's a really
strange thing. So the consequence of stranding somebody is less
than parking in a loading zone.
S3 (22:19):
Yeah, exactly. And again, it's because it's not being reinforced.
Like there are fines in place, depending on who you
talk to, which company or which state you're in. There
are systems put in place where fines should be put out,
like the amounts are set, but nobody reinforces it. If
they reinforce that as much as they reinforce parking tickets
or speeding fines, they would collect so much revenue. It's crazy.
S4 (22:44):
It's a mystery. And if we can find a single, uh,
politician or government official to talk to. Then maybe they
can explain it. But we have maybe a light at
the end of the tunnel, and we're hoping that that
light is not an oncoming train, but end of last year.
Peter Greco spoke to Olivia Barry from One Three Cabs
(23:04):
and we'll play the interview now.
S6 (23:08):
Now this is very, very exciting. Tell us what you've
done as far as your app goes.
S7 (23:12):
Okay, so Peter, we know there is an ongoing requirement
to keep improving the way we look after passengers who
are travelling with a guide dog or an assistance animal.
And we have made it, you know, part of our
mission to really continue to look at ways to improve that.
And we have made some changes in our app that
(23:36):
we think will provide a good step forward in the
right direction with this. So passengers travelling with a guide
dog or an assistance animal Can nominate that they are
doing so when they make a booking on our one
three club's app. And what that does is a couple
of things in the background. When that booking is sent
(23:59):
out to our cars, the driver will not be able
to see that the passenger has made that nomination, that
they're travelling with the guide dog or an assistance dog.
They'll just accept a job as it comes through. But
once they accept the job, we will send a notification
to the driver directly into their car to remind them
(24:20):
of their obligations under the law when picking up passengers
with guide dogs and assistance animals. And we'll also remind
them to provide great service. And we think by doing
that and giving the driver that warning that we will
facilitate more successful trips.
S6 (24:39):
Okay, so I guess in a sense it's kind of
a prompt to say, you know, these are your responsibilities
here it is in writing, as it as it were.
Act appropriately.
S7 (24:47):
That's exactly right. And the other thing it enables us
to do is watch the booking more closely. So we
know that booking is sort of flagged in our system,
if you like. And we have four call centres across Australia,
and we have supervisors who watch our particular jobs to
(25:07):
make sure that they are picked up and this will
come through as one of those jobs that will sort
of be treated with a little bit more special attention,
and it gives us the opportunity to make sure the
driver does the right thing or deal with that driver
in real time.
S6 (25:25):
Well, that's really, really important, isn't it? Because, yeah, I'm
sure you've heard stories of people waiting for a cab.
The cab turns up and then the driver says, no, no,
I'm not taking you. And away they go. And of course,
you know, hey, the passengers kind of lost or what
do I do now and then in terms of some
remedial action being taken, time can elapse.
S7 (25:42):
That's exactly right. And we know that when we speak
to drivers in real time about issues, we get much
better results in terms of re-educating them or disciplining them
if we need to. So we think that's a big
positive to come out of this. And it means that
(26:04):
the drivers know they're being watched a bit more closely
to not a bad thing either.
S6 (26:08):
No. Fair enough. Yeah. So this is for one three cabs.
And this is kind of applicable right throughout Australia.
S7 (26:14):
Right throughout Australia. So one three cabs app is available
across Australia. And it could dispatch either 2 or 1
three cab or a silver service cab. Or in Perth
we have Swan Taxis co-branded with one three cabs. Can
you give us.
S6 (26:31):
A bit of an idea of how this has come
about and why? I guess I can kind of guess,
as I said, and it's not just one three cabs, but,
you know, some of the rideshare people also get accused
of not picking up people. I guess this is kind
of trying to kind of be proactive and do something
before it gets to that stage.
S7 (26:48):
One three cabs. And personally myself, we have been working
in this space actively for a long time with Guide
Dogs Australia and also with Assistance Animals Australia on educational
videos and different methods we can use to communicate to
drivers about this issue, and then other ways we can
(27:10):
use our technology to keep improving the situation. And it's
something that we come together as a team across our business,
with our customer care team, our contact centre team that
look after drivers and our tech team to continue to improve.
And we have had some input across the last six
(27:34):
months with some dedicated focus groups, which includes passengers who
are travelling with guide dogs or assistance animals, or are
who are visually impaired to give us that direct feedback
about the experiences they've been having.
S6 (27:50):
Just to clarify, people have got to kind of go
into the app and change their sexual preferences or their settings.
S7 (27:57):
That's right. That's right. Okay.
S6 (28:00):
So yeah. Yeah. So it's up to the individual to
kind of go into the app and also then put
the settings so that the people when they received the
book and get get that information.
S7 (28:11):
That's right. So in the top left hand corner when
you open the app is a little hamburger menu. And
you just tap that and then you tap profile, which
will be your profile where you've loaded your own information.
And in that screen it says travelling with an assistance animal.
And you just click it and change the setting which
(28:35):
is set to no to yes.
S6 (28:37):
Okay. Yeah. So you got it. You got to kind
of change that. Yep. You got to kind of change
it to say yes. You are travelling with an assistance
animal and, uh, and that's pretty much it and all
about it.
S7 (28:47):
That's it then? Yep. Then it'll stay there on your profile.
And as you book taxis, that set of rules that
happens in the background will just happen.
S6 (28:55):
All right. And, uh, I think, uh, in your media
release that you put out, you've actually said that if
people do have a little bit of difficulty or if
it's a little bit challenging to, uh, work with the app,
you're more than happy for people to contact you and say, help.
Give me a hand.
S7 (29:10):
Absolutely. So we have a customer care team, um, available
to help. And also who like we really like to
get people's feedback as that continues to help us, um,
understand different situations. So we encourage people to please contact
us and give us feedback as they're using this. Um,
(29:31):
that would be great.
S6 (29:32):
So in a sense, this is, um, an ongoing project.
I mean, it's absolutely an initiative, but, uh, you're always
leaving a bit of room for improvement or to make
it better tomorrow than it is today.
S7 (29:42):
100% Peter and will continue with our focus groups, because
I'm sure there's more we can do in this space. Um,
not only with our own technology, but by speaking to
regulators across the states as well. Uh, to help make
sure drivers who do the wrong thing, uh, are dealt
with appropriately.
S6 (30:01):
Now, is this actually started now, or is this.
S7 (30:04):
Yes. Yes. Available now. Available now. Yep.
S6 (30:07):
Alright. So obviously 132227 is one three cabs is phone number.
Have you got that email address handy there Olivia if
you want to give feedback. Yeah.
S7 (30:15):
Yes. Customer care at one three cabs.com. You can also
go to our website and find your way through to
the customer care feedback form there.
S4 (30:32):
Okay. So Lizzy, um, it's the first time you've heard
that interview. Uh, what did you think?
S3 (30:36):
Well, I know I had a few questions, uh, related
to this and a few concerns. My first one would
be like, what are your metrics of success and how
are you going to track the waiting times of people
with dog like handlers as compared to others? Is that
going to be a factor that they look at as well? Yeah,
(30:57):
I had like I said, I had so many people
inundate me with responses and questions that they wanted to
ask one three calves if they ever had the chance.
And I know those were just a few of my concerns.
What about you, Sam?
S4 (31:10):
Uh, one thing that I've noticed is, okay, so they're
not telling the drivers that the person is using an
assistance animal. However, if that particular message is coming across
only when they're dispatching a job that happens to have
an assistance animal, then I don't think it's going to
take long for drivers to put two and two together there.
(31:32):
So I think they need to be, uh, randomly putting
that message out with other jobs as well. So there
is a lack of Lack of predictability there. That would
be one thing that I would notice. Also, I think
if they're tracing this, if drivers are still refusing the fares,
they should be sending out a spreadsheet to the owners
(31:54):
of the taxis and saying, by the way, these are
the jobs that your drivers have refused and this is
the amount of money you have lost thanks to it,
because I think going on people's decency hasn't worked. However,
the bottom line is the bottom line. And if they've
(32:15):
lost money because somebody, um, doesn't like dogs, I think
that would speak louder. I mean, what do you think?
S3 (32:22):
I agree with you, and I think it's sad that
we're in a day and age when people's sense of
conscience won't win out and that you have to, you know, like,
threaten their livelihoods in order to get the appropriate response.
It's quite sad. Um, you know, we've gone over what
people have experienced. And I was saying to you off
air before, it can be really scary, especially if you're
(32:44):
in the in the middle of nowhere or in the
middle of the city and you're trying to get home,
and that's the only way that you can get home.
It can be scary. So this sort of stuff should
be taken with a bit more seriousness than it currently
is by a lot of other companies and things, I believe.
S4 (32:58):
And my government in general.
S3 (33:00):
And yet government in general as well. But all the
peak bodies and all that.
S4 (33:03):
Mhm. So this is not the last time that we
are going to be tackling this subject this year. In fact, um,
I will um disclose now that currently one three Cabs
is a station sponsor. So we will be sending a
link to this podcast to, um, Olivia who have just
heard from and we'll give it, say, 3 to 6
(33:25):
months and see how things are going. And if she
wants to actually have a chat with us as well.
The reason why I chose to replay the interview that
was done last year was I don't think I could
have covered anything better than Peter did, and I didn't
see the point of going over old ground. And I
think we need to wait to see if this succeeds
(33:46):
or not, to, um, judge whether it was worthwhile or not.
I mean, yeah, what do you think about that, Lizzie?
S3 (33:52):
I agree there's been a lot of misinformation going around
about this new update to the system, and a lot
of people have gotten the wrong idea. Now, from what
I heard of the interview and what she was saying,
this is a lot more than what a lot of
companies have done prior to this. At least one three
cabs is giving it a go and trying to put
(34:13):
some system in place. I think a lot of people
misconstrue why the system has been put in place, and
they feel a bit targeted by the fact that they've
been asked to, you know, disclose whether they have an
assistance animal. But, you know, I think we should give
it a chance to see how it goes.
S4 (34:29):
Well, they can't really do much if they, uh, don't
have a registration system. That's the big thing here. So
it's a case of keeping track of who is there.
And so once they've actually got that on their system,
then we'll see how we go. And I think we
can congratulate them for trying to do something. And if
(34:49):
it doesn't work then, well, we'll take it from there.
So as I said, um, we will see what the
response of one three cabs and indeed any other rideshare
or taxi company is in, say 3 to 6 months
and see how we go. I think the other.
S3 (35:02):
Thing is to if they're keeping track of all the
people that register, the fact that they've got an assistance animal,
it's going to be a lot easier for these people
that get refusals to report back. At the moment, we're
just left with, you know, we have to email a
specific person or go to a website that can be
quite inaccessible at times. Whereas with this method, I think
it's a lot easier to flag it if it happens,
(35:24):
and it will be a lot easier to report and
deal with.
S4 (35:26):
Again, I think that the automated systems can be brought
into place with this one. But anyway, that is a
wrap for this week. A big thank you to Annette
and Janice. Also, thank you to Peter Greco for allowing
us to use the, uh, interview with Olivia Barry.
S3 (35:42):
And of course, a big thank you for listening. As usual,
you can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, Google, or
your favorite podcast platform.
S4 (35:52):
Next week we go over to Europe to talk to
Lars Bohinen from the European Blind Union.
S3 (35:58):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience with any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S4 (36:14):
You can email us Studio One at org. That's studio
number one at Vision Australia. Org.
S3 (36:20):
Well, feel free to look us up on social media,
whether that be Instagram or Facebook. Just search for VA
Radio Network. Bye for.
S1 (36:28):
Now. Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the
Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
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