July 2, 2025 • 34 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
"Taxi II: Another Ride?”
With the much-vaunted changes to the 13 Cabs app, has it really made any difference?
Lizzie and Sam are joined by Kelly Schulz from knowable me to pick apart reality from spin; good intentions from pragmatism; and ask where we go from here?
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
A special thanks to Kelly Schulz (Knowable Me: https://knowable.me/)
Extra special thanks to Emma Myers from Powerd Media for letting us use her interview (find the article here: https://powerd.media/news/taxi-service-enforces-zero-tolerance-on-drivers-refusing-assistance-animals
This program was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at https://cbf.org.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:16):
This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:24):
Hello, I'm Sam and I'm Lizzie, and this is Studio One,
your weekly look at life from a low vision and
blind point of view. Here on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:31):
This week with the much vaunted change to the 13
cabs app. Has it really made any difference?
S2 (00:37):
We're joined by Kelly Schultz from noble me. G'day, Kelly. Hello.
To pick apart reality from spin, good intentions from pragmatism
and ask where we go from here.
S3 (00:47):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have any experience
of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (01:03):
Please contact us via email studio one at Vision Australia. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:09):
Org or of course, you can drop us a note
on the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com Slash
Radio network.
S2 (01:18):
Well. Hello, everybody. Um, it's nice to have you back
on the show. Uh, Kelly.
S4 (01:22):
It's good to be here on a, you know, nice
afternoon in Melbourne.
S2 (01:26):
Well, yes, we're sort of scattered all about the place, uh,
coming to you from our various homes and all of
all of that. Uh, it's actually been a rather cold
day in Adelaide, which, uh, I don't know. How have
you coped with that, Lizzie?
S3 (01:36):
Uh, I've not been too bad. I was supposed to
go on a hills ride this morning. But I must
say that I'm rather glad that, um, technical issues put
spanner in. That works, because. Yeah, it's cold, and, uh,
I don't want to freeze.
S2 (01:50):
So when, um, going about on these hills rides, how
do you get to where you need to go? Do you, uh,
jump in a in a cab or by any chance?
S3 (01:58):
No. We ride.
S2 (01:59):
Oh, that's a shame. It would have made such a
good segway, as it were. Alright, so what we're dealing
with today is the changes that one three cabs have
made to their systems and, well, whether they've actually made
much of a change before. Now, Kelly, you've taken a
bit of interest in this one. I've noticed.
S4 (02:18):
I have. I will tell people constantly that transport and
reliable transport is the hardest thing about living with low
vision and blindness. I know there are lots of others,
but transport is the biggest barrier for me living my life.
S2 (02:35):
I'd agree wholeheartedly.
S3 (02:36):
Um, absolutely.
S2 (02:37):
Especially in this country where we seem to need a
driver's license pretty much no matter where we live.
S4 (02:42):
Yeah, and don't get me started on a driver's license
from an ID perspective. Maybe we could do a show
on that, because that's also something that's bugging me right now.
S2 (02:49):
Well, we're talking about employment next week, so, uh, who knows? Uh, we'll, uh, um,
probably have some fun with that as well. So, um,
before we do get started properly, um, as I said
last week, Olivia from, uh, one three cab seems to
have talked to everybody except to to for, well, us.
But she did speak to my colleague Emma myers, who
(03:11):
I do the powered Newswrap with and well, this is
what she said. And we'll come back at the other
side and talk about that afterwards.
S5 (03:25):
We hear through people complaining, passengers and customers who've had
a negative experience with one of our drivers, and it
could be across the whole country. We have over 8000 taxis.
MSO odds are that if passengers are moving around and
they have a bad experience, we want to hear about
them because the feedback is what can help us to
(03:48):
improve those instances. And one is enough. When there's one
bad one, it's completely unacceptable. And we really wanted to
then listen to that cohort of passengers hear directly from them.
So we set up these focus groups so we could
do that to then work out and work through our
(04:12):
own systems, which we have in place for bookings and
for dispatching those bookings to make very clear to drivers
that we were tracking these jobs and that we wanted to,
that we would be able to have better vision of
those trips and then deal with any instances where there
(04:37):
was discrimination very quickly. And that includes suspending the driver
immediately so that there's no recourse for the driver. We're
not really interested in why he might not have done
the right thing. We know he has done the wrong thing,
and so we deal with him immediately.
S6 (04:56):
So why was it time to introduce the zero tolerance
policy for cab drivers?
S5 (05:05):
We wanted to do something very pragmatic to make sure
we got the results. So. That has included some of
the measures that we've put in place to make sure
that drivers are, in fact, held to account. The rules
have always been there, but the enforcement across the industry
hasn't always matched the severity of the offense. So we
(05:26):
just wanted to address those issues through these reforms and
really try and change the culture. Everybody deserves to travel
with dignity. So some of the reforms that we have
put into place now include trip prioritization. And we know
if passengers note that they're travelling with an assistance or
(05:47):
guide dog, or we know people are travelling in our
wheelchair accessible taxis via their booking, that we prioritise those
trips inside our business to ensure they're dispatched with priority.
And then of course, there's the driver Accountability piece. The
drivers are reminded via messages into their car once they've
(06:11):
accepted one of these jobs, that it is a criminal
offence to refuse service to any passengers with assistance or
guard dogs. Then, if we have any issues, we have
eyes on that job inside our business, inside our contact centres,
and we have people watching those jobs very closely. And
that's then led to us being able to have that
zero tolerance policy for drivers. And then on the other
(06:33):
side of the coin, it's always about education. And we're
really committed to that journey with our drivers. And we
have just recently added a new module which is built
on top of other training we've done, designed with best
practice in mind. But we can't ever stop doing that either,
because some drivers from different cultural backgrounds are actually frightened
(06:56):
of dogs, and so they don't want to be that
close to them, really in the proximity of having the
dog in the car. And that's something that I'm sure
we can all understand is confronting. Our job at one
three cabs is to make sure drivers, as I say,
are educated that. Assistance animals and guide dogs are very
(07:16):
highly trained animals, and they're certainly very well behaved and
respectful of their environments, sometimes more so than other passengers
they probably take. So we need to continue to break
down those barriers for our drivers. And we have open
days and driver expos and things like that, where we
(07:38):
have been lucky enough to have guide dogs and assistance
dogs that come along so our drivers can pat them
and understand that they are incredibly disciplined animals and not
anything that they need to be afraid of. And then
I guess there's another. We've heard feedback from drivers that
they don't want the dog here in the car, things
(08:00):
like that. And one three Cabs has embarked on rolling
out special dog mats for our taxi drivers, so that
is no longer an issue or a reason for them
to refuse either.
S2 (08:17):
All right. So we'll start at the beginning of the system,
I suppose. And that is there's they're supposedly starting new
training modules. I think it's a great idea. Do you
think it's going to work?
S4 (08:32):
For me, training isn't the issue because most of the
cab drivers that I come across that refuse or don't
bother or decline the A job or whatever it is,
know they're doing the wrong thing. No one's they might
deny it and go, well, no, it's for other reasons.
But I don't think education is actually the problem.
S2 (08:51):
And it does seem to be a societal thing. I mean,
they say that they're afraid of dogs or that in
some cases, yes, they're afraid of dogs causing a mess
in their car. Ah, but the fact that we do
seem to sort of be pushing back on it means
that they seem to be pushing back on us. That's
my observation anyway.
S4 (09:09):
I find that, you know, I wish the training included
interaction with a guide dog in a car, like where
they can sit in the driver's seat and experience what
it is like to have a fully trained guide dog
in the car, because it amuses me sometimes how often
they go, oh, they're so well behaved. I'm like, you
(09:30):
know what? Good behavior isn't isn't even the cool stuff
my guide dog does. Like, that's just that's just the
basic expectation. And yes, they are well behaved because they're
supposed to be. And if you get one that's not
actually I want you to kick it out because it's
probably not legit.
S2 (09:46):
Well, this is the the thing is that there are
two creatures in the guide dog team. There's the the
handler and the dog. And if either of them are
not doing the right thing, then the public and that
includes a driver has every right to complain about it
to the either to guide dogs or seeing eye dogs
Australia or whoever else is, you know, giving them that
that dog.
S4 (10:06):
Totally. And it's the same for you know, we actually
do have responsibility as guide dog handlers as well. So
we have a responsibility to do the best we can
with a dog's cleanliness and, you know, shedding and all
those sorts of things. And all the handlers I know
are super conscious of that. They're super conscious of trying
to limit the number of things that can cause someone
(10:29):
to be annoyed or upset or restrict their access. So yes,
it's a responsibility. But like I remember, I remember one
day when my dog farted in a cab and the
driver just went and lost his lost it. He kept going,
you know, did it, did it poop? Did it? I'm like, no, no,
it's just a really bad fart.
S3 (10:50):
Yeah. I think it's interesting you talk about that because. Yeah,
I mean, of course we're not going to do things
that lead to us being restricted from certain places. And
most people that have guide dogs, like you said, are
fully aware of what the expectations are of them in
public and of their dogs. So the fact that people
like cab drivers are constantly surprised by the dogs good
(11:13):
behaviors kind of surprises me.
S2 (11:15):
There's an association, I think, because, I mean, I'm I'm
generalizing here, but I mean, it seems to be quite
rare that we get refusals from, uh, Australians, for example,
or people from an English speaking background. Um, feel free
to correct me on that one.
S4 (11:31):
Yeah, I think it's I think that's confirmation bias, to
be honest, because I also think you'll find that the
population of cab drivers is also skewed. Um, it's not
an equal representation of nationalities in driver population either. So
I think there's a bit of confirmation bias in that,
because I've certainly been refused by, uh, white Australians, if
(11:51):
you want to call them that. So I think there
is there's often that talk of its religious reasons and
everything else. I actually have a local cab driver who
I get when I can, who is a practicing Muslim,
and tells me all the time that, you know what?
It's just an excuse. It's genuinely about car. Cleanliness is
(12:14):
the most that people have a problem with, and that
they think is a whole lot of effort. There are
going to be some genuine fears of dogs, but most
of it is about cleanliness and the expectation that they're
going to have to do more work.
S2 (12:28):
So yeah, unless you've, as you said, unless we've got
a dog and a and a guide dog user coming
in on these, uh, courses, then yeah. You're not you're
not going to get any change in the education. So
that's sort of one thing that I can sort of
cross off the list really. Um, so I.
S4 (12:47):
Don't think it's a classroom thing either. It's actually in
a car, like get them in a car to show
you where that dog sits and show that it has options.
I get tired of being told you have to sit
in the back. No, I don't sit like in a cab.
You don't get to tell me where I sit. It's
actually not your choice. It's mine, stuff like that. But
they should be able to experience it in the car,
(13:08):
not just in a classroom or in an online training module.
S3 (13:12):
That's the thing though. It's so easy to just peruse
through an online module and make your way through it
relatively quickly without having to absorb any of the information
or any of it actually being processed by the brain.
Whereas if they had like a realistic element of it where, yeah,
you actually had to do a ride with a guide
dog in the car just so that you become familiar
(13:34):
with what's expected, that would be better. But the other
thing that I wanted to ask or to touch on,
I suppose, was, um, they have mentioned 13 cabs. This
is that they put together some focus groups to help
co-design that training module. Yet when I've interacted with a
lot of dog guide users on Facebook. None of them
were aware that the focus groups were even being formed.
S2 (13:56):
There doesn't seem to have been much of a it
was sort of alluded to, but I mean, how big
were the focus groups and where yeah, where where were
they from? And, um, you know which parts of Australia.
Any of your own thoughts on that one? Um, Kelly?
S4 (14:09):
Yeah. I've not heard of them either. I had heard
that they run. Quote unquote, regular focus groups to learn
about their experiences, but I've certainly not heard one that
would be shaping training or or anything like that. Um,
I don't know whether a vow representative orgs have been
involved in that, but you'd think even if you weren't
gonna directly invite guide dog users, you might approach guide
(14:32):
dogs or seeing eye dogs for a bit of advice
on what that training might look like. So yeah.
S3 (14:38):
Well, they have stated multiple times that Guide Dogs New
South Wales have been working closely with them and, you know,
they've been helping to form the focus groups and to
build that training module. But if that's the case, why
not get more organizations involved or more people? Because Guide
Dogs New South Wales is just one of many bodies
(15:00):
representing blind and low vision people.
S4 (15:02):
I'd like to think that it'd be relatively similar advice,
and at least if we know that that has happened,
that's better than better than not. But I also question sometimes, uh,
you know, this may not be the forum to question it,
but I also question sometimes the reality that orgs have
in representing us as well. Yes, they often have people
(15:26):
with lived experience who are who are working for them.
But I often find that their idea of the training
technique and what they expect of us doesn't always become
the reality and the reality of navigating taxis and rideshare
all the time in different shaped cars, with different drivers,
with different accoutrements and, you know, just different locations and
(15:51):
environments means that the reality is very different from how
you might get trained in a car park to get
your dog in and out of a car, for example.
S2 (15:59):
Well, I take for an example. Um, yes. I was
taught how to use a white cane by several guide
dogs instructors. And, uh, there is two ways to use
a white cane. That's the way that they show you
and the way that everybody else does, because it's just, um,
if you if you keep the things centered and you
hit something, then you get that cane in a very,
very sort of sore spot. I mean, so, uh, so, yeah,
(16:22):
I'd expect that that would come through also when, um,
dealing with a, a living animal and trying to find
the best way to navigate a motor vehicle.
S4 (16:30):
I feel like we need a poll on that, Sam,
at some point to go. How many people still send
to their cane when they use it?
S2 (16:36):
I think that would be very skewed.
S3 (16:38):
Oh yeah, animals react differently to different cars and different
environments too. I mean, they pick up on our stress
levels and it's, I would say, much more stressful being
refused a dog if you're trying to get somewhere at
a certain time, rather than if you just go on
to meet up with a friend. And if your animal
can can sense that stress, then that's going to also
(17:01):
determine how they behave and affect the standard of their
behaviour as well. So like you said, there's so many variables,
there's so many things to take into consideration. And it's
such a nuanced topic and such a nuanced issue. It's
there's no one size fits all answer. I don't think.
S4 (17:18):
Well, I think if we want to turn to to answers, um,
I can also talk about my experience with the changes, um,
as well. But if we want to talk to answers,
I think there are. The stick approach isn't working, whether
it's a cane or some sort of other stick. Uh,
it's not working, am I? My whole point on, you know,
getting on a bit of a hobby horse about this
topic is the fact that nothing is working. This isn't
(17:41):
like the first training module that's ever existed. Let's not
pretend this is novel in some way, Why? Because it's not.
Training's been happening. And like I said, most of them
know what they're supposed to do. They just don't understand
the consequence. They don't empathize with the experience when they
don't get it right. I often say to them, you know,
how would you feel if that was your mum or
your sister or your daughter standing out on the street
(18:05):
at night and you chose not to pick them up?
How would you feel about that? But I don't think
it's the answer. Like, I, I think we need some
sort of greater incentive, even if it's related to acknowledging
that maybe they do need to stop at the next
servo and vacuum the dog hair. Like, I'm sure there
is some element that maybe they do need to do.
(18:28):
So maybe we need to think about the schemes, like
the wheelchair schemes where they get a little bit of
extra on top of the fare, because there is an
acknowledgement that getting wheelchairs in and out of wheelchair accessible
taxis takes a bit longer. So maybe there needs to
be some sort of incentive that actually says, hey, we
acknowledge that taking a guide dog might incur an additional
(18:53):
burden of cleaning or something else. Great. Here's some extra
cash for it, because the current systems aren't working, so
we've got to try something else.
S2 (19:01):
Well, that is actually something that was part of this interview,
is that she did acknowledge that they are stocking up
on special mats that are apparently dog hair repellent. So
that is one thing that they are looking into, which
is a bit more practical. I mean, I.
S4 (19:17):
Get a bedspread made of that.
S2 (19:22):
Oh, yes. Uh, having having had a Jack Russell with
white hair in the past. Yes. I just loved my
whole house to be made of that. Um, the whole.
The carpet.
S3 (19:30):
Hey, Shay.
S2 (19:31):
Um, but, I mean, the question I've really wanted to ask,
and this is the problem is, having not been having
the opportunity to, um, talk to them. Is that the
way they've gone now? From where this particular company was
is a complete 360 to to their original stance. I mean,
there have been complaints to various authorities and their line
(19:54):
has always been we don't run the taxis, we're just
a booking company. And now they seem to be going
all out saying, no, no, no, we'll book them. We'll, uh,
you know, discipline them. And we're doing this, this and
this and this. I mean, um, I suspect I know
the answer to it, but what's the cause of all
the changes?
S4 (20:09):
We've got a reputation problem, don't they? Um, particularly with
the video evidence of a driver abusing people with disabilities
who weren't capable of defending themselves. I think they've got
a long standing reputation problem. They've also got a problem
in that ride share. You know, since Uber's Uber's and,
you know, all the others have come into the market,
(20:29):
they've they've got a they've got an image problem that
they need to solve. And I guess thankfully the media
takes up a guide dog story. I think it's about
every three months I reckon. See a media story about
guide dog refusals. Be it taxi or rideshare or something else.
And I reckon they've got an image problem. I don't
think it's out of care for us, to be honest.
S3 (20:50):
Well, I think this segues perfectly into, um, we put
the call out on Facebook. We posted in a couple
of groups in different areas and places, just to sort
of get some response and see if anyone was keen to, um,
take a ride and try out these new changes. And
I think, Kelly, that what you said is correct because
(21:13):
there are so many people who are like, no, I'll
never use this company again. I don't trust them. Somebody
disclosed that they'd been through assault and other things, and
there's a real reluctance within the dog guide handler community
to use 13 cabs because there is an image issue.
Like you said, they've already betrayed people's trust. They've already
(21:35):
burnt bridges.
S4 (21:36):
And it makes you wonder how hard that is to
build up if they won't front us either, Though, including,
you know, having a conversation like this. I believe that
the people in the office do want to improve customer experience,
but they don't seem to be going about it in
a strategic way. That is going to make a tangible
difference to us as end users. And we're probably small
(21:58):
fry in the context of, you know, all the people
that are going to the airport and back every day. But,
you know, we've got a bit of a loud voice
at times. So I'd like to think there's some change,
but I, I haven't seen it. My experience is that
I've been using it since I actually had a conversation
with them a few months ago. Myself and I have
(22:19):
been using it. I've been testing it out because I
was assured that there was human intervention if it was needed,
and lots of other things. But, you know, I've had
multiple situations where, uh, you know, a cab is six
minutes away, for example, and you're then going, okay, all right,
I'll be out on the curb right on time, and
then it's not looking for another one. The next one's
ten minutes away. you go. Great. Okay, so we're looking
(22:41):
for another one. Clearly, that one saw the note and
didn't like the idea of a dog.
S2 (22:45):
Um.
S4 (22:45):
And then you go, oh, okay. So ten minutes. All right. Um,
and we were all ready now, quite some way into
the journey, and then it'll happen again. And the next
one's 14 minutes, because they're getting further and further out
from where I am. And in one scenario, one of
them started the job from wherever they were 14 minutes
away and didn't move. Now I had the luxury of going,
(23:09):
you know what? I'm not cancelling that. That is on you.
You can sit there with that job running until you
decide you're going to cancel it, because I'm not going to.
This is the last.
S2 (23:20):
Thing that I was expecting that that was going to
happen is when they get the notification a that, you know, they'll,
they'll pick up on. Alright, okay, this is an assistance
dog user and they'll try this kind of thing.
S4 (23:30):
And that's what they do. Yeah that's my experience of it. And,
and now so rather than having these taxis who turn
up and then go oh no, it will drive past
or say, no, I don't want to do it. They're
getting that opportunity before they even get to me. And
the thing is, is so often with the refusals, you
can guilt them into it. I guilted one into it
(23:51):
a while ago. Who refused? And I said, well, you're
going to have to drive away and cancel the job
because I'm not doing it. And he drove away and
I sat on the footpath because, you know, what else
do you do while you're waiting for another cab? And
he drove back about eight minutes later and said, oh,
I saw you sitting there. And I felt bad. And
the problem I've got is, I don't want to go
(24:11):
with you anymore. Like, I genuinely don't want to go
with you because you didn't want to take me. And
I'm uncomfortable. You're clearly uncomfortable. And all he did the
whole way on that trip was try to backpedal and say, oh,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean. I'm just not sure I'm
out yet. Like, please don't complain about me. I'm like,
too late, buddy. Too late.
S2 (24:30):
There's a very simple solution to this. And that is
that the reminder in inverted commas that, um, you know,
guide dog or working dog refusal is illegal. Just be
sent out randomly for any job so that they don't
know if it's going to be a, uh, an assistance
dog or not. I mean, that's the way I sort
of see it. If it if it's just occasionally if
(24:51):
someone books a job and the driver gets that, that
reminder anyway and oh, surprise, surprise, no, they don't have
a guide dog, then I think that it would, um,
stir things up a little bit more, make things a
lot more unpredictable. And that's. Well, at least that's that's
my sort of view. I mean, what are you.
S4 (25:06):
Maybe that's the movement we need to start rather than
rather than the company doing that, we do a public
push to go. Every single person who takes one three
cabs via the app needs to say that they've got
an assistance dog.
S2 (25:19):
It's not a bad idea.
S4 (25:20):
It could be fun.
S2 (25:21):
All right. Okay. Dear listener, um, if you are, uh,
visually impaired or blind and.
S4 (25:27):
Or not.
S2 (25:28):
Or not.
S3 (25:28):
Or not. Yeah, not at all.
S2 (25:30):
If you have, well, some spare time up your hands,
I suppose, because I suspect you'd need it then. Yes.
Register that you've got a working dog. And, um, if
asked about it, simply say I'm sorry. He's staying home today.
S3 (25:42):
It's honestly not that hard to do. Sam, like when
you set up your profile in the app, it's a
two second thing. Um, yeah, we.
S2 (25:49):
Actually did that prior to our last show about this, uh,
you know, that our last show. And I was going
to include that in there, but we sort of had
a whole lot of other lovely material there. So, yes,
I mean, we were we were actually talking as Lizzie
was doing, doing it. And it was it was really simple.
S3 (26:04):
Yes.
S4 (26:04):
I'm just really excited because I think it's a great idea.
I might start publicising it and go, you know what?
Everybody I know who ever uses the one three cabs app,
go and add that you have an assistant stuff.
S2 (26:13):
Yes, exactly. This is the the thing that is also
extremely frustrating about this is this is an opportunity for
this company to actually distinguish itself from the rest of
the herd. Yeah, but been constant complaints about rideshare taking
their market from them if they could guarantee a smooth ride.
(26:34):
for all people with a disability, they would have a
guaranteed market and it would get around. There would be,
you know, I mean, it was still still dealing with
the fact that, um, it's between one tenth and one
fifth of the population identifies as having a disability. So
if you've got that in there, then it might be
that one pushback against the Rideshares. That's the way I
(26:54):
see it anyway.
S4 (26:55):
It totally should be a differentiator for them. Like there's
not much else they can differentiate on. They're not gonna
discount prices or do anything else, but they could totally
differentiate on that level of service.
S2 (27:08):
Um, I'm going to actually throw a few comments, uh, here. So, um,
there was one comment here, and this is about, uh,
a tactic that actually I've seen as an able bodied
in a way. And that is you've had, um, just
a straightforward refusal and we've had, um, yes. The uh oh,
I see it says an assistance dog, so I'm not
(27:29):
going to accept the case. The other one that one
of our contributors to the Facebook page said was they'd
ordered a cab. The taxi had driven past and said
that they'd actually picked the person up and then about
five minutes later, supposedly dropped them off. So they're actually
(27:51):
that desperate that they're actually going to give up five
minutes worth of meter time.
S4 (27:56):
Yeah, I think that's that whole thing of not being
seen to cancel the job. Um, I don't really have
evidence that cancelling a job is a bad thing, but, um,
I assume that makes it onerous on them for cancelling
a job rather than on the customer for cancelling a job.
So I reckon there's something about them not wanting to
cancel the job, so they start it. And then if
you haven't been picked up, I've had this happen where
(28:18):
they start the job. Not necessarily that they've driven past,
but they start the job, like I said, and just
sit there and don't move. I think they expect the
customer to cancel it and go, no, I'm not in it. Yeah,
I reckon the tactic so they don't they're not then
seen to have cancelled the job.
S2 (28:33):
Well in this particular case the, the passenger was actually
looking at the app. And the app had said that
they'd been picked up. Yep. And here they were sitting
at home going oh that's interesting. I'm still here. And
as I said then it was registered. Oh yeah. How
was your journey? So, um, yeah, as I said, there's
sort of various techniques and it's a simple fact that
that we know what they're doing. So it shouldn't be
(28:54):
that hard for the taxi company to work out what
they're doing as well. Really? I mean, they've got they're
the ones with the stats. I mean, I think we
could sort of sit here all day and come up
with things that might be simple solutions to dealing with this,
but it's just surprising that no one else is actually, um,
bothering with this. And I'm not just talking about the
current company we're talking about. I'm talking about Uber and
companies like that where it may not seem like a
(29:16):
big problem to them, but it's a massive problem to
the disability community in general.
S4 (29:21):
I think it's also the thing that switched me to
actually turning that option on. I was never convinced by
it myself because I knew it was going to create
this whole, well, you can just discriminate against me without
ever seeing me or, you know, without doing anything. Uh,
and they had a conversation. And so I was really
skeptical about it. But then when it came to data
and actually then being able to do something about it,
(29:42):
I was sort of convinced to go, actually. Yes. All right.
This will help with those stats. But I think if
they're not willing to engage in a conversation or even
share it, like start by going, hey, we want to
make this better. This is where it's currently at, and
we're ashamed of ourselves and we're going to do something
about it. Like at least be transparent about it. Because
as it is, we're all just arguing about, you know,
why it's so terrible? Well, give me credit for anything else.
S2 (30:05):
Exactly. And I mean, as has been stated by an
email that we received after our previous show, this issue
has been going on since the 1990s and probably longer
than that anyway. And so we're all just going around
and saying exactly the same thing as we have before,
which is, dear listener, why we will be following up
on this same thing in three months time or thereabouts. So, um,
(30:27):
I spent an idea to you, Kelly, that maybe we should, uh,
run some type of market survey on the taxi and
rideshare company. Now, what do you think of the idea?
S4 (30:38):
I think it's great. I think there's a lot of people,
particularly in the disability community, who've got a story about
taxis and rideshares and their experience, but also a lot
of people with good ideas about the simple things that
would make it better for them as well. So yeah,
I reckon we should do some research.
S2 (30:54):
Well, how about in three months time we catch up
and if you've got enough data there, we can you
can share your ideas and, uh, we can see what happens.
We who knows? Um, something might have changed. Or for
all we know, the, um, people at Uber or, um,
one three cabs might have decided they want to get
in touch with us, but we'll see what happens. Apart
(31:16):
from the, uh, rideshare ideas, is there anything major coming
up for yourself at, um, I mean, in, say, the
next couple of months or so.
S4 (31:24):
There's quite a few things on our plate actually at
the moment, including things about cyber security and cyber risks. Uh,
and we're also working with our friends at the ABC
on the presentation of their news articles online. So that
will be quite interesting as well.
S2 (31:41):
With the the incredible ness. Um, yes. We've got an
invitation to something for for her for tomorrow. So that's interesting. So, um, anyway,
thank you so much for for joining us again. This
has been a, uh, a joy to, uh, come across
a kindred spirit as far as all this goes. And
your passion does inspire both of us, I think. Do
you agree with me, Lizzie?
S3 (32:01):
Absolutely. This is an issue that I could rave on about.
In fact, you know what? Last time we did this episode,
I'm pretty sure most of it was me raving on
about how terrible the situation was and how scary it
could be. So I'm actually glad that there's somebody else
to sort of take the reins over, because I don't
want to be that person.
S2 (32:20):
Well, that is a wrap for this week. Again, a
big thank you to Kelly Schultz. You can find out
more about Noble Me by going to noble. Also, thank
you to Emma myers from Powered Media. You will find
the link to her interview in the podcast notes as well.
Thanks to the many of you on Facebook who gave
your comments. We didn't get around to reading them all,
(32:40):
but very much thank you for giving us the mood
of the episode.
S3 (32:44):
And of course, thanks to you for listening. And that
includes our listeners on the Reading Radio Network. You can
find the podcast of this program, plus some extra content
on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (32:59):
Next week we once again look at blind people and employment.
Some of our friends talk about the challenges they face
in getting work, keeping it, and navigating the workplace environment.
S3 (33:09):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who is dealing with something similar.
S2 (33:24):
Our email address is studio one at Vision Australia. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (33:30):
Org or of course you can find us on all
the good social media platforms like Facebook or Instagram by
searching for RVA Radio Network.
S2 (33:39):
This program was made possible with support from the Community
Broadcasting Foundation.
S3 (33:43):
Find out more at. Three months later.
S2 (33:52):
Hello. Studio one.
S7 (33:53):
Hey, Sam, it's Kelly. You remember that? Like third Rideshare
and Taxi episode we were going to do?
S2 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, I've got the pretty program right here.
S7 (34:02):
Well, we don't need it anymore. What? Guide dogs are
given access everywhere. Now, it's not a problem anymore. People
can travel wherever they like, whenever they like.
S2 (34:12):
Oh. That's terrific.
S3 (34:14):
What's that sound?
S2 (34:15):
Uh. Don't worry. They're just flying south for the summer.
This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:24):
Hello, I'm Sam and I'm Lizzie, and this is Studio One,
your weekly look at life from a low vision and
blind point of view. Here on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:31):
This week with the much vaunted change to the 13
cabs app. Has it really made any difference?
S2 (00:37):
We're joined by Kelly Schultz from noble me. G'day, Kelly. Hello.
To pick apart reality from spin, good intentions from pragmatism
and ask where we go from here.
S3 (00:47):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have any experience
of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (01:03):
Please contact us via email studio one at Vision Australia. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:09):
Org or of course, you can drop us a note
on the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com Slash
Radio network.
S2 (01:18):
Well. Hello, everybody. Um, it's nice to have you back
on the show. Uh, Kelly.
S4 (01:22):
It's good to be here on a, you know, nice
afternoon in Melbourne.
S2 (01:26):
Well, yes, we're sort of scattered all about the place, uh,
coming to you from our various homes and all of
all of that. Uh, it's actually been a rather cold
day in Adelaide, which, uh, I don't know. How have
you coped with that, Lizzie?
S3 (01:36):
Uh, I've not been too bad. I was supposed to
go on a hills ride this morning. But I must
say that I'm rather glad that, um, technical issues put
spanner in. That works, because. Yeah, it's cold, and, uh,
I don't want to freeze.
S2 (01:50):
So when, um, going about on these hills rides, how
do you get to where you need to go? Do you, uh,
jump in a in a cab or by any chance?
S3 (01:58):
No. We ride.
S2 (01:59):
Oh, that's a shame. It would have made such a
good segway, as it were. Alright, so what we're dealing
with today is the changes that one three cabs have
made to their systems and, well, whether they've actually made
much of a change before. Now, Kelly, you've taken a
bit of interest in this one. I've noticed.
S4 (02:18):
I have. I will tell people constantly that transport and
reliable transport is the hardest thing about living with low
vision and blindness. I know there are lots of others,
but transport is the biggest barrier for me living my life.
S2 (02:35):
I'd agree wholeheartedly.
S3 (02:36):
Um, absolutely.
S2 (02:37):
Especially in this country where we seem to need a
driver's license pretty much no matter where we live.
S4 (02:42):
Yeah, and don't get me started on a driver's license
from an ID perspective. Maybe we could do a show
on that, because that's also something that's bugging me right now.
S2 (02:49):
Well, we're talking about employment next week, so, uh, who knows? Uh, we'll, uh, um,
probably have some fun with that as well. So, um,
before we do get started properly, um, as I said
last week, Olivia from, uh, one three cab seems to
have talked to everybody except to to for, well, us.
But she did speak to my colleague Emma myers, who
(03:11):
I do the powered Newswrap with and well, this is
what she said. And we'll come back at the other
side and talk about that afterwards.
S5 (03:25):
We hear through people complaining, passengers and customers who've had
a negative experience with one of our drivers, and it
could be across the whole country. We have over 8000 taxis.
MSO odds are that if passengers are moving around and
they have a bad experience, we want to hear about
them because the feedback is what can help us to
(03:48):
improve those instances. And one is enough. When there's one
bad one, it's completely unacceptable. And we really wanted to
then listen to that cohort of passengers hear directly from them.
So we set up these focus groups so we could
do that to then work out and work through our
(04:12):
own systems, which we have in place for bookings and
for dispatching those bookings to make very clear to drivers
that we were tracking these jobs and that we wanted to,
that we would be able to have better vision of
those trips and then deal with any instances where there
(04:37):
was discrimination very quickly. And that includes suspending the driver
immediately so that there's no recourse for the driver. We're
not really interested in why he might not have done
the right thing. We know he has done the wrong thing,
and so we deal with him immediately.
S6 (04:56):
So why was it time to introduce the zero tolerance
policy for cab drivers?
S5 (05:05):
We wanted to do something very pragmatic to make sure
we got the results. So. That has included some of
the measures that we've put in place to make sure
that drivers are, in fact, held to account. The rules
have always been there, but the enforcement across the industry
hasn't always matched the severity of the offense. So we
(05:26):
just wanted to address those issues through these reforms and
really try and change the culture. Everybody deserves to travel
with dignity. So some of the reforms that we have
put into place now include trip prioritization. And we know
if passengers note that they're travelling with an assistance or
(05:47):
guide dog, or we know people are travelling in our
wheelchair accessible taxis via their booking, that we prioritise those
trips inside our business to ensure they're dispatched with priority.
And then of course, there's the driver Accountability piece. The
drivers are reminded via messages into their car once they've
(06:11):
accepted one of these jobs, that it is a criminal
offence to refuse service to any passengers with assistance or
guard dogs. Then, if we have any issues, we have
eyes on that job inside our business, inside our contact centres,
and we have people watching those jobs very closely. And
that's then led to us being able to have that
zero tolerance policy for drivers. And then on the other
(06:33):
side of the coin, it's always about education. And we're
really committed to that journey with our drivers. And we
have just recently added a new module which is built
on top of other training we've done, designed with best
practice in mind. But we can't ever stop doing that either,
because some drivers from different cultural backgrounds are actually frightened
(06:56):
of dogs, and so they don't want to be that
close to them, really in the proximity of having the
dog in the car. And that's something that I'm sure
we can all understand is confronting. Our job at one
three cabs is to make sure drivers, as I say,
are educated that. Assistance animals and guide dogs are very
(07:16):
highly trained animals, and they're certainly very well behaved and
respectful of their environments, sometimes more so than other passengers
they probably take. So we need to continue to break
down those barriers for our drivers. And we have open
days and driver expos and things like that, where we
(07:38):
have been lucky enough to have guide dogs and assistance
dogs that come along so our drivers can pat them
and understand that they are incredibly disciplined animals and not
anything that they need to be afraid of. And then
I guess there's another. We've heard feedback from drivers that
they don't want the dog here in the car, things
(08:00):
like that. And one three Cabs has embarked on rolling
out special dog mats for our taxi drivers, so that
is no longer an issue or a reason for them
to refuse either.
S2 (08:17):
All right. So we'll start at the beginning of the system,
I suppose. And that is there's they're supposedly starting new
training modules. I think it's a great idea. Do you
think it's going to work?
S4 (08:32):
For me, training isn't the issue because most of the
cab drivers that I come across that refuse or don't
bother or decline the A job or whatever it is,
know they're doing the wrong thing. No one's they might
deny it and go, well, no, it's for other reasons.
But I don't think education is actually the problem.
S2 (08:51):
And it does seem to be a societal thing. I mean,
they say that they're afraid of dogs or that in
some cases, yes, they're afraid of dogs causing a mess
in their car. Ah, but the fact that we do
seem to sort of be pushing back on it means
that they seem to be pushing back on us. That's
my observation anyway.
S4 (09:09):
I find that, you know, I wish the training included
interaction with a guide dog in a car, like where
they can sit in the driver's seat and experience what
it is like to have a fully trained guide dog
in the car, because it amuses me sometimes how often
they go, oh, they're so well behaved. I'm like, you
(09:30):
know what? Good behavior isn't isn't even the cool stuff
my guide dog does. Like, that's just that's just the
basic expectation. And yes, they are well behaved because they're
supposed to be. And if you get one that's not
actually I want you to kick it out because it's
probably not legit.
S2 (09:46):
Well, this is the the thing is that there are
two creatures in the guide dog team. There's the the
handler and the dog. And if either of them are
not doing the right thing, then the public and that
includes a driver has every right to complain about it
to the either to guide dogs or seeing eye dogs
Australia or whoever else is, you know, giving them that
that dog.
S4 (10:06):
Totally. And it's the same for you know, we actually
do have responsibility as guide dog handlers as well. So
we have a responsibility to do the best we can
with a dog's cleanliness and, you know, shedding and all
those sorts of things. And all the handlers I know
are super conscious of that. They're super conscious of trying
to limit the number of things that can cause someone
(10:29):
to be annoyed or upset or restrict their access. So yes,
it's a responsibility. But like I remember, I remember one
day when my dog farted in a cab and the
driver just went and lost his lost it. He kept going,
you know, did it, did it poop? Did it? I'm like, no, no,
it's just a really bad fart.
S3 (10:50):
Yeah. I think it's interesting you talk about that because. Yeah,
I mean, of course we're not going to do things
that lead to us being restricted from certain places. And
most people that have guide dogs, like you said, are
fully aware of what the expectations are of them in
public and of their dogs. So the fact that people
like cab drivers are constantly surprised by the dogs good
(11:13):
behaviors kind of surprises me.
S2 (11:15):
There's an association, I think, because, I mean, I'm I'm
generalizing here, but I mean, it seems to be quite
rare that we get refusals from, uh, Australians, for example,
or people from an English speaking background. Um, feel free
to correct me on that one.
S4 (11:31):
Yeah, I think it's I think that's confirmation bias, to
be honest, because I also think you'll find that the
population of cab drivers is also skewed. Um, it's not
an equal representation of nationalities in driver population either. So
I think there's a bit of confirmation bias in that,
because I've certainly been refused by, uh, white Australians, if
(11:51):
you want to call them that. So I think there
is there's often that talk of its religious reasons and
everything else. I actually have a local cab driver who
I get when I can, who is a practicing Muslim,
and tells me all the time that, you know what?
It's just an excuse. It's genuinely about car. Cleanliness is
(12:14):
the most that people have a problem with, and that
they think is a whole lot of effort. There are
going to be some genuine fears of dogs, but most
of it is about cleanliness and the expectation that they're
going to have to do more work.
S2 (12:28):
So yeah, unless you've, as you said, unless we've got
a dog and a and a guide dog user coming
in on these, uh, courses, then yeah. You're not you're
not going to get any change in the education. So
that's sort of one thing that I can sort of
cross off the list really. Um, so I.
S4 (12:47):
Don't think it's a classroom thing either. It's actually in
a car, like get them in a car to show
you where that dog sits and show that it has options.
I get tired of being told you have to sit
in the back. No, I don't sit like in a cab.
You don't get to tell me where I sit. It's
actually not your choice. It's mine, stuff like that. But
they should be able to experience it in the car,
(13:08):
not just in a classroom or in an online training module.
S3 (13:12):
That's the thing though. It's so easy to just peruse
through an online module and make your way through it
relatively quickly without having to absorb any of the information
or any of it actually being processed by the brain.
Whereas if they had like a realistic element of it where, yeah,
you actually had to do a ride with a guide
dog in the car just so that you become familiar
(13:34):
with what's expected, that would be better. But the other
thing that I wanted to ask or to touch on,
I suppose, was, um, they have mentioned 13 cabs. This
is that they put together some focus groups to help
co-design that training module. Yet when I've interacted with a
lot of dog guide users on Facebook. None of them
were aware that the focus groups were even being formed.
S2 (13:56):
There doesn't seem to have been much of a it
was sort of alluded to, but I mean, how big
were the focus groups and where yeah, where where were
they from? And, um, you know which parts of Australia.
Any of your own thoughts on that one? Um, Kelly?
S4 (14:09):
Yeah. I've not heard of them either. I had heard
that they run. Quote unquote, regular focus groups to learn
about their experiences, but I've certainly not heard one that
would be shaping training or or anything like that. Um,
I don't know whether a vow representative orgs have been
involved in that, but you'd think even if you weren't
gonna directly invite guide dog users, you might approach guide
(14:32):
dogs or seeing eye dogs for a bit of advice
on what that training might look like. So yeah.
S3 (14:38):
Well, they have stated multiple times that Guide Dogs New
South Wales have been working closely with them and, you know,
they've been helping to form the focus groups and to
build that training module. But if that's the case, why
not get more organizations involved or more people? Because Guide
Dogs New South Wales is just one of many bodies
(15:00):
representing blind and low vision people.
S4 (15:02):
I'd like to think that it'd be relatively similar advice,
and at least if we know that that has happened,
that's better than better than not. But I also question sometimes, uh,
you know, this may not be the forum to question it,
but I also question sometimes the reality that orgs have
in representing us as well. Yes, they often have people
(15:26):
with lived experience who are who are working for them.
But I often find that their idea of the training
technique and what they expect of us doesn't always become
the reality and the reality of navigating taxis and rideshare
all the time in different shaped cars, with different drivers,
with different accoutrements and, you know, just different locations and
(15:51):
environments means that the reality is very different from how
you might get trained in a car park to get
your dog in and out of a car, for example.
S2 (15:59):
Well, I take for an example. Um, yes. I was
taught how to use a white cane by several guide
dogs instructors. And, uh, there is two ways to use
a white cane. That's the way that they show you
and the way that everybody else does, because it's just, um,
if you if you keep the things centered and you
hit something, then you get that cane in a very,
very sort of sore spot. I mean, so, uh, so, yeah,
(16:22):
I'd expect that that would come through also when, um,
dealing with a, a living animal and trying to find
the best way to navigate a motor vehicle.
S4 (16:30):
I feel like we need a poll on that, Sam,
at some point to go. How many people still send
to their cane when they use it?
S2 (16:36):
I think that would be very skewed.
S3 (16:38):
Oh yeah, animals react differently to different cars and different
environments too. I mean, they pick up on our stress
levels and it's, I would say, much more stressful being
refused a dog if you're trying to get somewhere at
a certain time, rather than if you just go on
to meet up with a friend. And if your animal
can can sense that stress, then that's going to also
(17:01):
determine how they behave and affect the standard of their
behaviour as well. So like you said, there's so many variables,
there's so many things to take into consideration. And it's
such a nuanced topic and such a nuanced issue. It's
there's no one size fits all answer. I don't think.
S4 (17:18):
Well, I think if we want to turn to to answers, um,
I can also talk about my experience with the changes, um,
as well. But if we want to talk to answers,
I think there are. The stick approach isn't working, whether
it's a cane or some sort of other stick. Uh,
it's not working, am I? My whole point on, you know,
getting on a bit of a hobby horse about this
topic is the fact that nothing is working. This isn't
(17:41):
like the first training module that's ever existed. Let's not
pretend this is novel in some way, Why? Because it's not.
Training's been happening. And like I said, most of them
know what they're supposed to do. They just don't understand
the consequence. They don't empathize with the experience when they
don't get it right. I often say to them, you know,
how would you feel if that was your mum or
your sister or your daughter standing out on the street
(18:05):
at night and you chose not to pick them up?
How would you feel about that? But I don't think
it's the answer. Like, I, I think we need some
sort of greater incentive, even if it's related to acknowledging
that maybe they do need to stop at the next
servo and vacuum the dog hair. Like, I'm sure there
is some element that maybe they do need to do.
(18:28):
So maybe we need to think about the schemes, like
the wheelchair schemes where they get a little bit of
extra on top of the fare, because there is an
acknowledgement that getting wheelchairs in and out of wheelchair accessible
taxis takes a bit longer. So maybe there needs to
be some sort of incentive that actually says, hey, we
acknowledge that taking a guide dog might incur an additional
(18:53):
burden of cleaning or something else. Great. Here's some extra
cash for it, because the current systems aren't working, so
we've got to try something else.
S2 (19:01):
Well, that is actually something that was part of this interview,
is that she did acknowledge that they are stocking up
on special mats that are apparently dog hair repellent. So
that is one thing that they are looking into, which
is a bit more practical. I mean, I.
S4 (19:17):
Get a bedspread made of that.
S2 (19:22):
Oh, yes. Uh, having having had a Jack Russell with
white hair in the past. Yes. I just loved my
whole house to be made of that. Um, the whole.
The carpet.
S3 (19:30):
Hey, Shay.
S2 (19:31):
Um, but, I mean, the question I've really wanted to ask,
and this is the problem is, having not been having
the opportunity to, um, talk to them. Is that the
way they've gone now? From where this particular company was
is a complete 360 to to their original stance. I mean,
there have been complaints to various authorities and their line
(19:54):
has always been we don't run the taxis, we're just
a booking company. And now they seem to be going
all out saying, no, no, no, we'll book them. We'll, uh,
you know, discipline them. And we're doing this, this and
this and this. I mean, um, I suspect I know
the answer to it, but what's the cause of all
the changes?
S4 (20:09):
We've got a reputation problem, don't they? Um, particularly with
the video evidence of a driver abusing people with disabilities
who weren't capable of defending themselves. I think they've got
a long standing reputation problem. They've also got a problem
in that ride share. You know, since Uber's Uber's and,
you know, all the others have come into the market,
(20:29):
they've they've got a they've got an image problem that
they need to solve. And I guess thankfully the media
takes up a guide dog story. I think it's about
every three months I reckon. See a media story about
guide dog refusals. Be it taxi or rideshare or something else.
And I reckon they've got an image problem. I don't
think it's out of care for us, to be honest.
S3 (20:50):
Well, I think this segues perfectly into, um, we put
the call out on Facebook. We posted in a couple
of groups in different areas and places, just to sort
of get some response and see if anyone was keen to, um,
take a ride and try out these new changes. And
I think, Kelly, that what you said is correct because
(21:13):
there are so many people who are like, no, I'll
never use this company again. I don't trust them. Somebody
disclosed that they'd been through assault and other things, and
there's a real reluctance within the dog guide handler community
to use 13 cabs because there is an image issue.
Like you said, they've already betrayed people's trust. They've already
(21:35):
burnt bridges.
S4 (21:36):
And it makes you wonder how hard that is to
build up if they won't front us either, Though, including,
you know, having a conversation like this. I believe that
the people in the office do want to improve customer experience,
but they don't seem to be going about it in
a strategic way. That is going to make a tangible
difference to us as end users. And we're probably small
(21:58):
fry in the context of, you know, all the people
that are going to the airport and back every day. But,
you know, we've got a bit of a loud voice
at times. So I'd like to think there's some change,
but I, I haven't seen it. My experience is that
I've been using it since I actually had a conversation
with them a few months ago. Myself and I have
(22:19):
been using it. I've been testing it out because I
was assured that there was human intervention if it was needed,
and lots of other things. But, you know, I've had
multiple situations where, uh, you know, a cab is six
minutes away, for example, and you're then going, okay, all right,
I'll be out on the curb right on time, and
then it's not looking for another one. The next one's
ten minutes away. you go. Great. Okay, so we're looking
(22:41):
for another one. Clearly, that one saw the note and
didn't like the idea of a dog.
S2 (22:45):
Um.
S4 (22:45):
And then you go, oh, okay. So ten minutes. All right. Um,
and we were all ready now, quite some way into
the journey, and then it'll happen again. And the next
one's 14 minutes, because they're getting further and further out
from where I am. And in one scenario, one of
them started the job from wherever they were 14 minutes
away and didn't move. Now I had the luxury of going,
(23:09):
you know what? I'm not cancelling that. That is on you.
You can sit there with that job running until you
decide you're going to cancel it, because I'm not going to.
This is the last.
S2 (23:20):
Thing that I was expecting that that was going to
happen is when they get the notification a that, you know, they'll,
they'll pick up on. Alright, okay, this is an assistance
dog user and they'll try this kind of thing.
S4 (23:30):
And that's what they do. Yeah that's my experience of it. And,
and now so rather than having these taxis who turn
up and then go oh no, it will drive past
or say, no, I don't want to do it. They're
getting that opportunity before they even get to me. And
the thing is, is so often with the refusals, you
can guilt them into it. I guilted one into it
(23:51):
a while ago. Who refused? And I said, well, you're
going to have to drive away and cancel the job
because I'm not doing it. And he drove away and
I sat on the footpath because, you know, what else
do you do while you're waiting for another cab? And
he drove back about eight minutes later and said, oh,
I saw you sitting there. And I felt bad. And
the problem I've got is, I don't want to go
(24:11):
with you anymore. Like, I genuinely don't want to go
with you because you didn't want to take me. And
I'm uncomfortable. You're clearly uncomfortable. And all he did the
whole way on that trip was try to backpedal and say, oh,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean. I'm just not sure I'm
out yet. Like, please don't complain about me. I'm like,
too late, buddy. Too late.
S2 (24:30):
There's a very simple solution to this. And that is
that the reminder in inverted commas that, um, you know,
guide dog or working dog refusal is illegal. Just be
sent out randomly for any job so that they don't
know if it's going to be a, uh, an assistance
dog or not. I mean, that's the way I sort
of see it. If it if it's just occasionally if
(24:51):
someone books a job and the driver gets that, that
reminder anyway and oh, surprise, surprise, no, they don't have
a guide dog, then I think that it would, um,
stir things up a little bit more, make things a
lot more unpredictable. And that's. Well, at least that's that's
my sort of view. I mean, what are you.
S4 (25:06):
Maybe that's the movement we need to start rather than
rather than the company doing that, we do a public
push to go. Every single person who takes one three
cabs via the app needs to say that they've got
an assistance dog.
S2 (25:19):
It's not a bad idea.
S4 (25:20):
It could be fun.
S2 (25:21):
All right. Okay. Dear listener, um, if you are, uh,
visually impaired or blind and.
S4 (25:27):
Or not.
S2 (25:28):
Or not.
S3 (25:28):
Or not. Yeah, not at all.
S2 (25:30):
If you have, well, some spare time up your hands,
I suppose, because I suspect you'd need it then. Yes.
Register that you've got a working dog. And, um, if
asked about it, simply say I'm sorry. He's staying home today.
S3 (25:42):
It's honestly not that hard to do. Sam, like when
you set up your profile in the app, it's a
two second thing. Um, yeah, we.
S2 (25:49):
Actually did that prior to our last show about this, uh,
you know, that our last show. And I was going
to include that in there, but we sort of had
a whole lot of other lovely material there. So, yes,
I mean, we were we were actually talking as Lizzie
was doing, doing it. And it was it was really simple.
S3 (26:04):
Yes.
S4 (26:04):
I'm just really excited because I think it's a great idea.
I might start publicising it and go, you know what?
Everybody I know who ever uses the one three cabs app,
go and add that you have an assistant stuff.
S2 (26:13):
Yes, exactly. This is the the thing that is also
extremely frustrating about this is this is an opportunity for
this company to actually distinguish itself from the rest of
the herd. Yeah, but been constant complaints about rideshare taking
their market from them if they could guarantee a smooth ride.
(26:34):
for all people with a disability, they would have a
guaranteed market and it would get around. There would be,
you know, I mean, it was still still dealing with
the fact that, um, it's between one tenth and one
fifth of the population identifies as having a disability. So
if you've got that in there, then it might be
that one pushback against the Rideshares. That's the way I
(26:54):
see it anyway.
S4 (26:55):
It totally should be a differentiator for them. Like there's
not much else they can differentiate on. They're not gonna
discount prices or do anything else, but they could totally
differentiate on that level of service.
S2 (27:08):
Um, I'm going to actually throw a few comments, uh, here. So, um,
there was one comment here, and this is about, uh,
a tactic that actually I've seen as an able bodied
in a way. And that is you've had, um, just
a straightforward refusal and we've had, um, yes. The uh oh,
I see it says an assistance dog, so I'm not
(27:29):
going to accept the case. The other one that one
of our contributors to the Facebook page said was they'd
ordered a cab. The taxi had driven past and said
that they'd actually picked the person up and then about
five minutes later, supposedly dropped them off. So they're actually
(27:51):
that desperate that they're actually going to give up five
minutes worth of meter time.
S4 (27:56):
Yeah, I think that's that whole thing of not being
seen to cancel the job. Um, I don't really have
evidence that cancelling a job is a bad thing, but, um,
I assume that makes it onerous on them for cancelling
a job rather than on the customer for cancelling a job.
So I reckon there's something about them not wanting to
cancel the job, so they start it. And then if
you haven't been picked up, I've had this happen where
(28:18):
they start the job. Not necessarily that they've driven past,
but they start the job, like I said, and just
sit there and don't move. I think they expect the
customer to cancel it and go, no, I'm not in it. Yeah,
I reckon the tactic so they don't they're not then
seen to have cancelled the job.
S2 (28:33):
Well in this particular case the, the passenger was actually
looking at the app. And the app had said that
they'd been picked up. Yep. And here they were sitting
at home going oh that's interesting. I'm still here. And
as I said then it was registered. Oh yeah. How
was your journey? So, um, yeah, as I said, there's
sort of various techniques and it's a simple fact that
that we know what they're doing. So it shouldn't be
(28:54):
that hard for the taxi company to work out what
they're doing as well. Really? I mean, they've got they're
the ones with the stats. I mean, I think we
could sort of sit here all day and come up
with things that might be simple solutions to dealing with this,
but it's just surprising that no one else is actually, um,
bothering with this. And I'm not just talking about the
current company we're talking about. I'm talking about Uber and
companies like that where it may not seem like a
(29:16):
big problem to them, but it's a massive problem to
the disability community in general.
S4 (29:21):
I think it's also the thing that switched me to
actually turning that option on. I was never convinced by
it myself because I knew it was going to create
this whole, well, you can just discriminate against me without
ever seeing me or, you know, without doing anything. Uh,
and they had a conversation. And so I was really
skeptical about it. But then when it came to data
and actually then being able to do something about it,
(29:42):
I was sort of convinced to go, actually. Yes. All right.
This will help with those stats. But I think if
they're not willing to engage in a conversation or even
share it, like start by going, hey, we want to
make this better. This is where it's currently at, and
we're ashamed of ourselves and we're going to do something
about it. Like at least be transparent about it. Because
as it is, we're all just arguing about, you know,
why it's so terrible? Well, give me credit for anything else.
S2 (30:05):
Exactly. And I mean, as has been stated by an
email that we received after our previous show, this issue
has been going on since the 1990s and probably longer
than that anyway. And so we're all just going around
and saying exactly the same thing as we have before,
which is, dear listener, why we will be following up
on this same thing in three months time or thereabouts. So, um,
(30:27):
I spent an idea to you, Kelly, that maybe we should, uh,
run some type of market survey on the taxi and
rideshare company. Now, what do you think of the idea?
S4 (30:38):
I think it's great. I think there's a lot of people,
particularly in the disability community, who've got a story about
taxis and rideshares and their experience, but also a lot
of people with good ideas about the simple things that
would make it better for them as well. So yeah,
I reckon we should do some research.
S2 (30:54):
Well, how about in three months time we catch up
and if you've got enough data there, we can you
can share your ideas and, uh, we can see what happens.
We who knows? Um, something might have changed. Or for
all we know, the, um, people at Uber or, um,
one three cabs might have decided they want to get
in touch with us, but we'll see what happens. Apart
(31:16):
from the, uh, rideshare ideas, is there anything major coming
up for yourself at, um, I mean, in, say, the
next couple of months or so.
S4 (31:24):
There's quite a few things on our plate actually at
the moment, including things about cyber security and cyber risks. Uh,
and we're also working with our friends at the ABC
on the presentation of their news articles online. So that
will be quite interesting as well.
S2 (31:41):
With the the incredible ness. Um, yes. We've got an
invitation to something for for her for tomorrow. So that's interesting. So, um, anyway,
thank you so much for for joining us again. This
has been a, uh, a joy to, uh, come across
a kindred spirit as far as all this goes. And
your passion does inspire both of us, I think. Do
you agree with me, Lizzie?
S3 (32:01):
Absolutely. This is an issue that I could rave on about.
In fact, you know what? Last time we did this episode,
I'm pretty sure most of it was me raving on
about how terrible the situation was and how scary it
could be. So I'm actually glad that there's somebody else
to sort of take the reins over, because I don't
want to be that person.
S2 (32:20):
Well, that is a wrap for this week. Again, a
big thank you to Kelly Schultz. You can find out
more about Noble Me by going to noble. Also, thank
you to Emma myers from Powered Media. You will find
the link to her interview in the podcast notes as well.
Thanks to the many of you on Facebook who gave
your comments. We didn't get around to reading them all,
(32:40):
but very much thank you for giving us the mood
of the episode.
S3 (32:44):
And of course, thanks to you for listening. And that
includes our listeners on the Reading Radio Network. You can
find the podcast of this program, plus some extra content
on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (32:59):
Next week we once again look at blind people and employment.
Some of our friends talk about the challenges they face
in getting work, keeping it, and navigating the workplace environment.
S3 (33:09):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who is dealing with something similar.
S2 (33:24):
Our email address is studio one at Vision Australia. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (33:30):
Org or of course you can find us on all
the good social media platforms like Facebook or Instagram by
searching for RVA Radio Network.
S2 (33:39):
This program was made possible with support from the Community
Broadcasting Foundation.
S3 (33:43):
Find out more at. Three months later.
S2 (33:52):
Hello. Studio one.
S7 (33:53):
Hey, Sam, it's Kelly. You remember that? Like third Rideshare
and Taxi episode we were going to do?
S2 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, I've got the pretty program right here.
S7 (34:02):
Well, we don't need it anymore. What? Guide dogs are
given access everywhere. Now, it's not a problem anymore. People
can travel wherever they like, whenever they like.
S2 (34:12):
Oh. That's terrific.
S3 (34:14):
What's that sound?
S2 (34:15):
Uh. Don't worry. They're just flying south for the summer.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!