March 10, 2025 • 15 mins
This week while Damo attends the CSUN Assistive Technology conference in California, we mark International Women’s Day in conversation between Stephen and blind assistive technologist Ramona Mandy. Ramona recalls her time as an Adult Braille Training Instructor with Royal Victorian Institute for the Blind, her 24 years with Humanware and explains her current role with the Monash Assistive Technology Society centre.
To access the program, presented each week by Stephen Jolley and Damo McMorrow you can go to varadio.org/talkingtech
To write to the show use damo.mcmorrow@visionaustralia.org
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:07):
Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition, available from
March the 11th, 2025. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have
you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated
stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network.
There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you
need to do is search for the two words talking
(00:29):
tech and down. It can all come usually on a
Tuesday afternoon just after it's been produced. Another option is
to ask your Siri device or smart speaker to play.
Vision Australia radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking
tech podcast. Normally with me is Damo McMorrow, Vision Australia's
(00:50):
national manager on access technology. Damo is away at the moment.
He's in California attending the CSUN event, the International Assistive
Technology Conference, and will be chatting to him about that
when he comes back in a couple of weeks time.
Last Saturday, you may know, was International Women's Day, March
(01:13):
the 8th. So what a timely moment for us to
celebrate the achievement of a woman in assistive or access technology.
And I'm very pleased to be speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Ramona, welcome.
S2 (01:29):
Hi, Steven. And I'm very pleased to be with you.
Thank you.
S1 (01:32):
I first remember you making a difference for people back
in the 1990s. You were working with Avebe Royal Victorian
Institute for the blind as a Braille training instructor. But
you did more than that. You were following in the
footsteps of some other great influencers of people who had
(01:55):
recently lost their sight, like the late Ben Hewitt. Christine,
now Simpson, who is my sister, I should disclose that
and yourself who really mentored or were role models for
people new to their vision loss. Tell us about that.
S2 (02:13):
Thanks, Stephen. And let me say, first of all, the
pleasure has truly been mine for my career in assistive technology.
From a very young age at primary school, I wanted
to be a teacher, but I also took well to
technical things. I was forever the one fixing the dolls
when their head or their arm fell off and wanted
to know how things work. And I still like to
know how things work. And so my role at Rvb,
(02:37):
when I was teaching Braille, I really enjoyed that because
I believe that knowledge is power. And I believe in
sharing that knowledge and that power to empower people so
they can do what they want to do with independence
and confidence. And I really enjoyed my role at Rvb
because it was my mixture of teaching and technology coming together,
(03:00):
and certainly Christine Simpson and Ben Hewitt. I knew both
of them were really influential and supportive of me. Christine
was my manager and Christine has always served to be
very supportive of me. I saw her as a mentor
for teaching me practical things, but she also strongly encouraged
(03:20):
me to get into Joint Blind Citizens Australia. And I've
never looked back from that because that peer support and
information gaining that I gained from BCA was also worthwhile
through my career. And for me, that manifested in teaching
people Braille, but also technology, but braille technology in particular.
(03:40):
When I was at Rvb, Christine introduced me to some
technology and boy did I get a buzz. When I
first saw that first Notetaker, I was familiar with some
note takers like the Eureka, the Braille, and speak. But
when the Braille light came out and it had a
braille display that was as exciting as when I first
sent my first accessible text message.
S1 (03:58):
And you influenced a lot of people. People would say
to me, oh, that Ramona. It's amazing what she can do,
and she explains it so well, etc. it was a
very important role that few people had. And you then
moved into what seemed quite a different field, but again,
a field of influence and helping people. That's working with Humanware.
S2 (04:17):
Thank you. It's nice to have that feedback, but I
think it's just about taking the opportunities and working with
people and trying to find what suits people the best
and what are the solutions out there. And that's all
about being networked, tapped into different sources of information and
then sharing that information with Humanware, which is a leading
(04:38):
manufacturer of adaptive technology for blind people, which includes braille
speech technology and low vision magnification solutions. I worked for
Humanware for 21 years in that role. I did a
lot of sales, which was basically showing people what solutions
were out there to address whatever particular needs they had.
(05:00):
I also did tech support, so I was the one
that advised people to turn it off and turn it
back on again, or try all sorts of other different
tech troubleshooting. But I was also working with schools and
introducing students to Braille technology, showing teachers how their work
could be easily gotten to the child without having to
(05:21):
go through long delays of Braille translation, showing people how
they can get back into audiobooks by introducing them to
these things called daisy players and all sorts of things.
So yeah, Humanware was a big part of my career.
S1 (05:34):
And it really stretched you, didn't it? Because you had
to become familiar with new and evolving technologies.
S2 (05:41):
Yeah. I remember the first time that I heard about
this thing called Bluetooth. I thought, oh no, what is that?
And I knew it wasn't a dental disease, but I
knew it was some fancy tech that I had to
try and get on top of. So yes, quite often
I felt like I was one step ahead. Learning is
hard and challenging, but in the end it pays off
if you just dedicate some time. I was traveling a lot.
(06:03):
I was on a plane every three weeks off to
a different part of Australia, meeting different people. It was fun,
but it was tiring. But yeah, it was a challenge,
but one that I was up for.
S1 (06:13):
Tell us about that. You just mentioned it as an
aside that you were traveling a lot on airplanes every week.
That takes a bit out of one, doesn't it? You've
really got to work hard to get your head around
the process from when you first set out to go
to the airport, to remembering where you've put your cane
down when you get to the hotel room? Just explain
(06:34):
that for people who aren't familiar with it.
S2 (06:36):
Absolutely. And maybe it's the Girl Guide that I did
as a child coming out of me, but I just
found it was important to be prepared. But there's a lot,
and it is tiring waiting around in airports for flights
to trying to find new gates. I was traveling with
my guide dog, so I'd have to always make sure
in advance that there were places to toilet her. I
worked a lot with colleagues at the other end of
(06:59):
the gate. So I was travelling, say, to a state
where I was doing some education. I'd worked with a
school teachers to suggest, could you tell me where a
hotel is close to the school? So I'd do a
lot of inquiring and a lot of planning, but it
is tiring. It takes longer to do things. It doesn't
mean I can't do them, but it just might take
me longer to do things. So to be prepared and
(07:21):
to find the most efficient way of doing things was
really key behind that. So I might choose to do
the essential things or find the technology that I could
use to make me the most efficient. So for me,
and everyone has their different perspectives of how they approach technology.
For me, efficiency is more important than all bells and whistles,
(07:44):
but other people like latest features. Most features for me,
I just need to get the job done.
S1 (07:50):
Expos and conferences that you had to attend.
S2 (07:54):
Exhibitions are a great way to meet potential customers and
existing customers. And through Humanware, we did a lot of those.
So they were either in my home town of Melbourne
or in other places in Australia, and I also did
some in Asia with my manager. Technology had to be
lugged in, set up, plugged in, and it's quite funny
(08:17):
when people tell me that aren't used to my, I guess,
career in my life. Be careful, there's a cord there,
and the amount of times I was sitting amongst 20
cords behind an exhibit table and was able to step
over them, and it's just quite funny that they're warning
me about one cord, but yeah, look, it was it's fine.
And it became quite a routine. I'd put certain things,
(08:38):
certain places. By the end of the two days of
an exhibit, it was very hard to find things because
people were picking up all sorts of things. But once again,
you've just got to go with the roll and see
how things work out. But yes, it was an exciting
but a tiring event and once again, planning worked. If
you're at an exhibition also, they can be quite noisy,
(08:59):
so problem solving had to find a Bluetooth speaker or
a plug in speaker that you could amplify your sound
of your technology. Because of course, blind technology is all
about audio output, in many cases to be heard over
the loud din of the exhibit hall.
S1 (09:16):
Let's reflect on technology over the last 30 years. Are
there any significant moments you talked about the Braille light earlier?
Any others you can recall that you sort of thought
at the time, oh, this is fantastic, or that you
realize looking back, gee, that really was a great step forward.
S2 (09:34):
When I started, we were still dealing with parallel and
serial connections. So when USB became a thing that was exciting,
much easier plug and play type of concepts. Of course,
Bluetooth helped portability, I think. Not particularly products, although Humanware
had a lot of portable things like handheld devices. I
(09:54):
think the move towards portability and handheld devices is a
big thing. In more recent times, of course, we're seeing
emerging technologies like AI and 3D printing, motion detection, haptic feedback.
These are all things that we're certainly seeing these days are.
(10:16):
So there are moments like that that I think are
really significant, but they're not really a moment. I guess
they're a stage or a development or a trend. But
what I really also like to see is that there
are devices that cater for people that can't necessarily use
mainstream or just need a different interface. And I'm thinking
(10:37):
of things like phones like the blind sell classic phones
that have push buttons, standalone OCR devices.
S1 (10:45):
One thing I have learned from you, Ramona, is that
you are the master of the technology. You tend to
use what you need to use rather than what you
would like to use. Some of us are a bit
sort of geeky and like to play with new stuff,
but technology doesn't rule your life, does it?
S2 (11:04):
Oh, to some degree it does, Stephen. Still, I have
to work and so I have to learn new new
platforms for new work, etc. but I am not someone
that just delves with fun things because I want to,
but that's just simply a time thing. There are some
things I'd like to do with technology, but I don't
have time. But I also, as I said earlier, like
(11:26):
to just get the job done. So I try not
to let technology rule me. And sometimes a low tech
or no tech solution is better than a high tech solution.
S1 (11:36):
Now tell us about your current role with Monash University.
S2 (11:40):
This ties nicely into what I was saying about emerging technologies.
I was representing Blind Citizens Australia on a project looking
at 3D printing for Making graphics accessible to blind people.
And through that, I learned about a new centre that
Monash University have created called mats. Mats, which is an
(12:01):
acronym for Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre, and I
have now been appointed as the manager of that centre.
That centre is a hub for researchers and educators in
the disability space, looking particularly at assistive technology. We have
other centres, I guess, and places around Australia looking at
(12:24):
disability issues, but this one is really focused on assistive technology.
We work very closely with the disability sector. Our academics,
as I said, are either researchers or education specialists. And
there's a lot of different projects looking at technology and
the impact of that on the disability community. So it's
(12:46):
very much about co-design, working with people with disabilities to
address real world problems. There's no point coming up with
some great invention if the disability community don't need it
or wouldn't use it. But yeah, I'm working with a
great crew at the Mat center. The director and the
deputy director and I lead that team. We're just growing,
but we're starting to get out there now with different projects.
S1 (13:08):
And what a smart move it was to have you
managing that center. With your experience in the technology field,
your lived experience as a blind person and with your competence.
Just one final.
S2 (13:20):
Question. Yeah.
S1 (13:22):
What do you do to relax?
S2 (13:24):
I guess my me time is coffee and listening to podcasts.
My interests are science, health, technology, and a few other things.
I go to the gym and I like to work
out and that gets a few endorphins going. So that's
a bit of a relaxation and walking. And when I can,
I also like to go and do a bit of
trying new cafes. I have a guide dog and we'd
(13:49):
like to go for walks as well, exploring the neighbourhood.
S1 (13:51):
Great speaking with you today, Ramona. Ramona. Mandy.
S2 (13:55):
Thanks, Steve. It's been delightful.
S1 (13:57):
I've been speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Really a giant in
assistive technology in Australia. Before we go, a reminder that
you can find details of this and previous editions of
the program by going to VA radio.org/talking tech. VA radio.org/talking
(14:19):
tech to write to the program. Damo is checking his
inbox so you can write to Damo McMorrow. Damo dot
Mkmo r o w at Vision australia.org. Damo dot McMorrow
at Vision australia.org. This has been talking tech. My guest
has been Ramona. Mandy. I'm Stephen Jolley. Take care. We'll
(14:42):
talk more tech next week. See you.
Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition, available from
March the 11th, 2025. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have
you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated
stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network.
There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you
need to do is search for the two words talking
(00:29):
tech and down. It can all come usually on a
Tuesday afternoon just after it's been produced. Another option is
to ask your Siri device or smart speaker to play.
Vision Australia radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking
tech podcast. Normally with me is Damo McMorrow, Vision Australia's
(00:50):
national manager on access technology. Damo is away at the moment.
He's in California attending the CSUN event, the International Assistive
Technology Conference, and will be chatting to him about that
when he comes back in a couple of weeks time.
Last Saturday, you may know, was International Women's Day, March
(01:13):
the 8th. So what a timely moment for us to
celebrate the achievement of a woman in assistive or access technology.
And I'm very pleased to be speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Ramona, welcome.
S2 (01:29):
Hi, Steven. And I'm very pleased to be with you.
Thank you.
S1 (01:32):
I first remember you making a difference for people back
in the 1990s. You were working with Avebe Royal Victorian
Institute for the blind as a Braille training instructor. But
you did more than that. You were following in the
footsteps of some other great influencers of people who had
(01:55):
recently lost their sight, like the late Ben Hewitt. Christine,
now Simpson, who is my sister, I should disclose that
and yourself who really mentored or were role models for
people new to their vision loss. Tell us about that.
S2 (02:13):
Thanks, Stephen. And let me say, first of all, the
pleasure has truly been mine for my career in assistive technology.
From a very young age at primary school, I wanted
to be a teacher, but I also took well to
technical things. I was forever the one fixing the dolls
when their head or their arm fell off and wanted
to know how things work. And I still like to
know how things work. And so my role at Rvb,
(02:37):
when I was teaching Braille, I really enjoyed that because
I believe that knowledge is power. And I believe in
sharing that knowledge and that power to empower people so
they can do what they want to do with independence
and confidence. And I really enjoyed my role at Rvb
because it was my mixture of teaching and technology coming together,
(03:00):
and certainly Christine Simpson and Ben Hewitt. I knew both
of them were really influential and supportive of me. Christine
was my manager and Christine has always served to be
very supportive of me. I saw her as a mentor
for teaching me practical things, but she also strongly encouraged
(03:20):
me to get into Joint Blind Citizens Australia. And I've
never looked back from that because that peer support and
information gaining that I gained from BCA was also worthwhile
through my career. And for me, that manifested in teaching
people Braille, but also technology, but braille technology in particular.
(03:40):
When I was at Rvb, Christine introduced me to some
technology and boy did I get a buzz. When I
first saw that first Notetaker, I was familiar with some
note takers like the Eureka, the Braille, and speak. But
when the Braille light came out and it had a
braille display that was as exciting as when I first
sent my first accessible text message.
S1 (03:58):
And you influenced a lot of people. People would say
to me, oh, that Ramona. It's amazing what she can do,
and she explains it so well, etc. it was a
very important role that few people had. And you then
moved into what seemed quite a different field, but again,
a field of influence and helping people. That's working with Humanware.
S2 (04:17):
Thank you. It's nice to have that feedback, but I
think it's just about taking the opportunities and working with
people and trying to find what suits people the best
and what are the solutions out there. And that's all
about being networked, tapped into different sources of information and
then sharing that information with Humanware, which is a leading
(04:38):
manufacturer of adaptive technology for blind people, which includes braille
speech technology and low vision magnification solutions. I worked for
Humanware for 21 years in that role. I did a
lot of sales, which was basically showing people what solutions
were out there to address whatever particular needs they had.
(05:00):
I also did tech support, so I was the one
that advised people to turn it off and turn it
back on again, or try all sorts of other different
tech troubleshooting. But I was also working with schools and
introducing students to Braille technology, showing teachers how their work
could be easily gotten to the child without having to
(05:21):
go through long delays of Braille translation, showing people how
they can get back into audiobooks by introducing them to
these things called daisy players and all sorts of things.
So yeah, Humanware was a big part of my career.
S1 (05:34):
And it really stretched you, didn't it? Because you had
to become familiar with new and evolving technologies.
S2 (05:41):
Yeah. I remember the first time that I heard about
this thing called Bluetooth. I thought, oh no, what is that?
And I knew it wasn't a dental disease, but I
knew it was some fancy tech that I had to
try and get on top of. So yes, quite often
I felt like I was one step ahead. Learning is
hard and challenging, but in the end it pays off
if you just dedicate some time. I was traveling a lot.
(06:03):
I was on a plane every three weeks off to
a different part of Australia, meeting different people. It was fun,
but it was tiring. But yeah, it was a challenge,
but one that I was up for.
S1 (06:13):
Tell us about that. You just mentioned it as an
aside that you were traveling a lot on airplanes every week.
That takes a bit out of one, doesn't it? You've
really got to work hard to get your head around
the process from when you first set out to go
to the airport, to remembering where you've put your cane
down when you get to the hotel room? Just explain
(06:34):
that for people who aren't familiar with it.
S2 (06:36):
Absolutely. And maybe it's the Girl Guide that I did
as a child coming out of me, but I just
found it was important to be prepared. But there's a lot,
and it is tiring waiting around in airports for flights
to trying to find new gates. I was traveling with
my guide dog, so I'd have to always make sure
in advance that there were places to toilet her. I
worked a lot with colleagues at the other end of
(06:59):
the gate. So I was travelling, say, to a state
where I was doing some education. I'd worked with a
school teachers to suggest, could you tell me where a
hotel is close to the school? So I'd do a
lot of inquiring and a lot of planning, but it
is tiring. It takes longer to do things. It doesn't
mean I can't do them, but it just might take
me longer to do things. So to be prepared and
(07:21):
to find the most efficient way of doing things was
really key behind that. So I might choose to do
the essential things or find the technology that I could
use to make me the most efficient. So for me,
and everyone has their different perspectives of how they approach technology.
For me, efficiency is more important than all bells and whistles,
(07:44):
but other people like latest features. Most features for me,
I just need to get the job done.
S1 (07:50):
Expos and conferences that you had to attend.
S2 (07:54):
Exhibitions are a great way to meet potential customers and
existing customers. And through Humanware, we did a lot of those.
So they were either in my home town of Melbourne
or in other places in Australia, and I also did
some in Asia with my manager. Technology had to be
lugged in, set up, plugged in, and it's quite funny
(08:17):
when people tell me that aren't used to my, I guess,
career in my life. Be careful, there's a cord there,
and the amount of times I was sitting amongst 20
cords behind an exhibit table and was able to step
over them, and it's just quite funny that they're warning
me about one cord, but yeah, look, it was it's fine.
And it became quite a routine. I'd put certain things,
(08:38):
certain places. By the end of the two days of
an exhibit, it was very hard to find things because
people were picking up all sorts of things. But once again,
you've just got to go with the roll and see
how things work out. But yes, it was an exciting
but a tiring event and once again, planning worked. If
you're at an exhibition also, they can be quite noisy,
(08:59):
so problem solving had to find a Bluetooth speaker or
a plug in speaker that you could amplify your sound
of your technology. Because of course, blind technology is all
about audio output, in many cases to be heard over
the loud din of the exhibit hall.
S1 (09:16):
Let's reflect on technology over the last 30 years. Are
there any significant moments you talked about the Braille light earlier?
Any others you can recall that you sort of thought
at the time, oh, this is fantastic, or that you
realize looking back, gee, that really was a great step forward.
S2 (09:34):
When I started, we were still dealing with parallel and
serial connections. So when USB became a thing that was exciting,
much easier plug and play type of concepts. Of course,
Bluetooth helped portability, I think. Not particularly products, although Humanware
had a lot of portable things like handheld devices. I
(09:54):
think the move towards portability and handheld devices is a
big thing. In more recent times, of course, we're seeing
emerging technologies like AI and 3D printing, motion detection, haptic feedback.
These are all things that we're certainly seeing these days are.
(10:16):
So there are moments like that that I think are
really significant, but they're not really a moment. I guess
they're a stage or a development or a trend. But
what I really also like to see is that there
are devices that cater for people that can't necessarily use
mainstream or just need a different interface. And I'm thinking
(10:37):
of things like phones like the blind sell classic phones
that have push buttons, standalone OCR devices.
S1 (10:45):
One thing I have learned from you, Ramona, is that
you are the master of the technology. You tend to
use what you need to use rather than what you
would like to use. Some of us are a bit
sort of geeky and like to play with new stuff,
but technology doesn't rule your life, does it?
S2 (11:04):
Oh, to some degree it does, Stephen. Still, I have
to work and so I have to learn new new
platforms for new work, etc. but I am not someone
that just delves with fun things because I want to,
but that's just simply a time thing. There are some
things I'd like to do with technology, but I don't
have time. But I also, as I said earlier, like
(11:26):
to just get the job done. So I try not
to let technology rule me. And sometimes a low tech
or no tech solution is better than a high tech solution.
S1 (11:36):
Now tell us about your current role with Monash University.
S2 (11:40):
This ties nicely into what I was saying about emerging technologies.
I was representing Blind Citizens Australia on a project looking
at 3D printing for Making graphics accessible to blind people.
And through that, I learned about a new centre that
Monash University have created called mats. Mats, which is an
(12:01):
acronym for Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre, and I
have now been appointed as the manager of that centre.
That centre is a hub for researchers and educators in
the disability space, looking particularly at assistive technology. We have
other centres, I guess, and places around Australia looking at
(12:24):
disability issues, but this one is really focused on assistive technology.
We work very closely with the disability sector. Our academics,
as I said, are either researchers or education specialists. And
there's a lot of different projects looking at technology and
the impact of that on the disability community. So it's
(12:46):
very much about co-design, working with people with disabilities to
address real world problems. There's no point coming up with
some great invention if the disability community don't need it
or wouldn't use it. But yeah, I'm working with a
great crew at the Mat center. The director and the
deputy director and I lead that team. We're just growing,
but we're starting to get out there now with different projects.
S1 (13:08):
And what a smart move it was to have you
managing that center. With your experience in the technology field,
your lived experience as a blind person and with your competence.
Just one final.
S2 (13:20):
Question. Yeah.
S1 (13:22):
What do you do to relax?
S2 (13:24):
I guess my me time is coffee and listening to podcasts.
My interests are science, health, technology, and a few other things.
I go to the gym and I like to work
out and that gets a few endorphins going. So that's
a bit of a relaxation and walking. And when I can,
I also like to go and do a bit of
trying new cafes. I have a guide dog and we'd
(13:49):
like to go for walks as well, exploring the neighbourhood.
S1 (13:51):
Great speaking with you today, Ramona. Ramona. Mandy.
S2 (13:55):
Thanks, Steve. It's been delightful.
S1 (13:57):
I've been speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Really a giant in
assistive technology in Australia. Before we go, a reminder that
you can find details of this and previous editions of
the program by going to VA radio.org/talking tech. VA radio.org/talking
(14:19):
tech to write to the program. Damo is checking his
inbox so you can write to Damo McMorrow. Damo dot
Mkmo r o w at Vision australia.org. Damo dot McMorrow
at Vision australia.org. This has been talking tech. My guest
has been Ramona. Mandy. I'm Stephen Jolley. Take care. We'll
(14:42):
talk more tech next week. See you.
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Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.