July 30, 2025 • 27 mins
Monash PhD student William Chen is back on the program with Sam this week discussing his new research, including a study into how people in the blind and low vision community plan their journey and navigate their surroundings with technology, and the role that AI does or doesn't play in the process.
We also hear from Melanie Lane, choreographer of PHANTASM, a new dance work taking place at Chunky Move Studios in Melbourne from 7-16 August, with a tactile tour and audio described show on the final night. Melanie is joined by Kristina Arnott from Chunky Move to tell us all about PHANTASM and Chunky Move's work in the accessibility space.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:22):
This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Colley.
S2 (00:31):
Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
and low vision.
S3 (00:39):
Looking into journey preparation. So planning, but also journey execution
as well for the blind and low vision community, particularly
with the focus in accessible tourism. Because tourism is quite
a planning intensive process and a really interested in how
(00:59):
does the information flow between the planning stage and the
execution stage, and how can we better design systems that
could support robust planning and therefore, in a way, support
independence while you're executing your journeys.
S2 (01:14):
Welcome to the show! This week I reconnected with a
monash PhD student who is currently looking into wayfinding and
tourism for members of the blind and low vision community
and how they either do or don't use AI to
find their way from point A to point B on
(01:37):
an everyday basis. That conversation is coming up very shortly,
so make sure to stick around. And then later on
in the show, I'll catch up with a couple of
individuals who are involved in a tactile tour and audio
described dance performance taking place on the 16th of August,
(01:58):
but you can also catch their show when it opens
on the seventh. I hope you'll enjoy this week's episode
of Talking Vision. About a year ago, I spoke to
a monash PhD student who at the time was looking
(02:19):
into independence, trust and privacy in accessible health apps. Well,
he's back with another study, which this time is looking
at how individuals who are blind or have low vision
use and interact with generative AI tools for planning and
wayfinding purposes to get from point A to B independently
(02:42):
and safely. His name is William Chen, and it's my
great pleasure to welcome him back to Talking Vision, to
have a chat. William, welcome back to Talking Vision. Thank
you very much for your time.
S3 (02:56):
Well, thank you so much for having me again. And
last time it was really, really great. So keen to
discuss further about what I've been up to and my
ambitious plans for the next couple of months.
S2 (03:06):
Well, let's have a bit of a recap and have
a bit of a chat about what you've been up
to over the past year or so. Since we last spoke,
you were working on, um, accessible health apps, as I
understand last time we were talking, and there's been some
progress there, but then you've been up to quite a
few other things.
S3 (03:25):
Yeah. So last time I was on this show, I
was talking about a study that I was running for,
an app that we developed to help and make over-the-counter
tests accessible to the blind and low vision community, and
it was a call out for participants to try out
our application. And thank you to everyone who's been listening
(03:49):
and participating in the study. We got a lot of
support and input from the community, and we're just in
the process of gathering all of that and publishing it.
So fingers crossed. Sometime this year we could publish that
and one of the conferences and of course, the next
steps are to find partners that are willing to take
(04:10):
this a step further, not necessarily commercialization, but bringing it
onto the market.
S2 (04:16):
And will some exciting news. You've started your p.h.d. What
are you getting up to there? And what's been your
key interests, um, in that sort of department?
S3 (04:28):
Yeah, so I just started my PhD. While I say
just started, I started around ten months ago and I've
been changing my directions quite a bit, but I think
I'm settling down into looking into journey preparation. So planning
but also journey execution as well for the blind and
(04:48):
low vision community, particularly with the focus in accessible tourism.
Because tourism is quite a planning intensive process and a
really interested in how does the information flow between the
planning stage and the execution stage, and how can we
better design systems that could support robust planning and therefore,
(05:12):
in a way, support independence while you're executing your journeys?
So a way that I think that we could possibly
investigate this is looking into how generative AI could play
a role in this workflow, which kind of brings me
into today's topic and why I'm on this show, to
talk about my next steps.
S2 (05:32):
Let's have a bit of a chat about a hypothesis
you might have, or some findings you've discovered. Has there
been any scholarship in the field already around the tools
for planning and wayfinding, or is this going to be
a completely new kind of path that you're going down
and really breaking some new ground, which is also quite exciting?
S3 (05:55):
Yeah. Um, well, it's a bit of both, I would say.
So in terms of existing scholarship, there has been research
into what are some tools that the community uses for
planning as well as execution? But there hasn't been much
research around linking the two stages together. And I think
that's where real gap exists, because we shouldn't approach these
(06:16):
two stages as separate things. They very much play into
each other. And that's because, well, how robust your planning
stage is directly impacts your level of confidence and independence
while you're executing it. But then after you execute your journey,
there's also a reflection stage where you look back and
(06:38):
you reflect on what went well, what didn't go so well,
and perhaps it could be in a format of just
mental notes, or it could be sharing your experiences online,
but this would then also influence your next planning stage
in how confident you might feel, or how willing you
might be to go down a certain pathway. So I'm
very much looking at these three stages of a journey
(07:01):
as a whole and really seeing it as an interconnected component.
And I think generative AI could be a really important
tool or could play a really critical role in this workflow,
because one of the problems that existing scholarship has revealed
is that it's really difficult to access information, not just
(07:23):
because some certain information are inaccessible, for example, graphical information,
but a lot of information are one outdated and two
just really widespread. So having to go on multiple websites
or having to dig through multiple sources just to get
adequate amounts of information to be confident enough to undertake
(07:44):
your journey is very, very labor intensive and generative. AI
could be really good at summarizing some of those information
and regurgitating those information and collecting them on your behalf.
So we think it could play a really important role
in this workflow, and we're just really trying to understand
is it really being used at the moment and how
(08:06):
is it being used?
S2 (08:07):
And William, I understand you've got some extra little bits
and pieces to just clarify for people out there.
S3 (08:15):
Yes. So I'd like to clarify that even though our
studies focus is on the use of AI based tools
in orientation mobility, you're 100% do not have to have
experience with AI based tools to participate in this study.
And that's because we're also really interested in why people
(08:37):
haven't used these tools, or why have you stopped using
these tools. So please don't feel like, oh, I don't
think I'm eligible to participate in the study because I
don't have experience with AI based tools. That's totally not
the case.
S2 (08:52):
William, I'm really interested to hear about why people don't
use these currently and how they compare with traditional tools. Now,
when you say traditional tools, what do you mean in particular?
Are you talking about, like the VoiceOver overlay to Google
Maps or other sort of voice activated apps that exist
(09:14):
already that aren't so much AI? They're just sort of
you put in, I want to go here. I'm here
right now. How do I get from point A to B,
that sort of thing?
S3 (09:23):
Yeah, that's an excellent question. And that's something that both
myself as well as the research team has been wrestling
for a bit. And I guess what we mean by
existing tools is those that you're right. So if you
were to just import I want to go from point
A to point B, for example, Google Maps. And utilizing
that along with VoiceOver. That's what we would consider to
(09:45):
be existing tools. So any tools that don't use any
form of artificial intelligence. Now we also understand that sometimes
it can be quite blurry whether a tool utilizes AI
or not. So more broadly speaking, existing tools are. You
can think of them as essentially rule based tools, if
(10:09):
you will. So something like be my eyes IRA. So
getting live assistants, um, from site to individuals or Google Maps.
And I guess what we consider to be AI or
generative AI could be optical character recognition. So any form
of text recognition, speech recognition. So interacting with your devices
(10:32):
through your voice or it could be generative AI. Or
it could be seeing AI where you take a photo
and it describes your surrounding environments. Those are all what
we consider to be AI. And that sort of encapsulated
inside our study. So we're not just, I guess, limiting
it to generative AI. So we're looking at AI as
(10:53):
a whole, but with a focus in generative AI.
S2 (10:56):
Okay. Interesting. And if people would like to take part
in the survey, what are the specifics of how the
survey is structured? What sort of thing can people expect
if they get in touch and take part in the survey?
S3 (11:13):
Yep. So if you want to get in touch with
us and take part in the survey, you'll receive an
explanatory statement from us. And the survey is completely anonymous
and it's online and it takes around, I would say
15 to 20 minutes to go through. There's just shy
of 20 questions to 25 questions ish. There's a range
(11:35):
because certain questions we'd like to elaborate a bit more
on based on your answers. And there is an associated reimbursement,
but because it's completely anonymous, it would be separate to
the survey that you'll be filling in where we're recording
down your email and that would not be linked to
your responses at all. And the reimbursement. You'll be entered
(11:59):
into a draw to receive one of $1,025 gift cards.
And we also would like to conduct a follow up study.
And it's completely optional. And you could record down whether
you would like to be invited to a follow up
study in the survey, and we'll reach out if you've indicated. Yes.
S2 (12:19):
What sort of time frame are you looking at, William?
What's the window of time where people can register their responses?
And is there a closing date at this point?
S3 (12:30):
Yeah. Excellent question. So today is the first day actually
that we're starting.
S2 (12:34):
Are fantastic.
S3 (12:35):
Collection. So July 23rd and we plan on um running
the data collection over the next month. So up until
the 23rd of August into the survey and for the
interview stage, we plan on starting that on the 30th
of July, all the way until the 30th of August.
S2 (12:54):
All right. Perfect. And if people would like to get
in touch and take part in the survey, what's the
best way for them to get in touch with you
and your team and have their say and give their input?
S3 (13:08):
Yeah. So you can reach out to myself personally via
my mobile phone or my email. So my phone number
is 0403Â 227Â 283. Or you could also email me at William.
(13:31):
So w I l l I a dot Chen. So
c h e n@monash.edu. So m o n a s
h dot. Edu.
S2 (13:51):
Perfect. Well, we'll look forward to hearing about all the
feedback and all the results from the study. So maybe
we'll have to get in touch with you. Um, in
six months or a year's time from now. So let's
keep tabs on how that's going. And, um, very interested
to hear how your day unfolds. So thank you very
(14:12):
much for your time today. It was great to catch
up again.
S3 (14:15):
Yeah. Thank you so much, Sam, for providing me with
this opportunity. And yeah, I'd be very, very keen to
come back in a couple of months to report on
some of the findings that we have. And I think
that's one of the things that myself, as well as
the people around us, could 100% be doing more. And
that is reporting back to the community on some of
our findings.
S2 (14:43):
I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking vision on
Vision Australia radio. Associated stations of Disability Media Australia and
the Reading Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that conversation
there with William Chen. If you missed any part of
that conversation with William or you'd love to hear it again.
(15:05):
Talking vision is available on the podcast app of your
choice or through the Vision Australia library. You can also
find the program on the Vision Australia Radio website at.
That's all. One word. From the 7th to the 16th
(15:27):
of August, choreographer Melanie Lane will be presenting her haunting
new dance work Phantasm, at Chunky Move Studios in Southbank,
including a tactile tour on the 16th of August at
6 p.m., PM, followed by an audio described show at
(15:47):
7 p.m. for audience members who are blind or have
low vision. And it's my great pleasure to welcome Melanie
on to Talking Vision right now alongside Christina Arnott from
Chunky Move. Melanie, Christina, welcome to Talking Vision. Thank you
very much for your time.
S4 (16:08):
Hi, Sam. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Great to chat.
S2 (16:11):
Now. Firstly, Melanie, I might start with you as the
choreographer of Phantasm. Tell us a bit about the show.
S4 (16:20):
Yeah, sure. So, um, Phantasm is a dance work for
four dancers, and it's really sort of unpacking the myths
and folklore around the feminine body. Um, something that I've
been interested in exploring, uh, for the last few years.
And it's a commission from Chunky Move. So it's something
I've worked on over the last two and a half
(16:41):
years and finally coming into fruition this August.
S2 (16:44):
Fantastic. And, um, tell us a bit about when the
dance work will be taking place at Chunky Move. I
understand it's coming up rather shortly now.
S4 (16:54):
It is. It's creeping up really fast, but, um, I'm
very excited about it. We've got live music, uh, and
the shows are quite immersive, so we're working with a
lot of different materials, um, and sent um, and different,
I guess, sort of sensorial elements in the work.
S2 (17:13):
Yeah. And, um, what dates will those be taking place?
S4 (17:17):
It opens on the 7th of August and runs for
two weeks until the 16th.
S2 (17:22):
Oh, fantastic. Now, Christina, I'll come over to you and
get a bit of info about Chunky Move. Tell us
a bit about the studios there.
S5 (17:32):
Yeah, sure. So, uh, Chunky Move is Victoria's flagship contemporary
dance company. Um, we were founded back in 1995, 95.
So it's our 30th birthday this year.
S2 (17:43):
Oh, okay. Happy birthday.
S5 (17:45):
Yeah. And the company is led by artistic director Anthony Hamilton.
And really, our ethos is to make genre defying contemporary dance.
So pushing the boundaries of the art form. And as
part of our program, we present major works by Anthony.
But we also are really proud to commission work and
support work by independent artists like Melanie as well. And
(18:08):
we run a classes program, um, all sorts of other
kind of professional development programs for local artists. Dance artists. Yeah.
S2 (18:16):
Perfect. Okay. And, um, I understand you'll be running quite
a few accessible events for audience members who are blind
or have low vision in terms of tactile tours and
audio description and those sorts of things. So give us
a bit of info about those and what days those
(18:37):
will be available and what sessions are available for people.
All that sort of thing.
S5 (18:43):
Yeah of course. So we'll we'll be running an audio
described performance on Saturday the 16th of August at 7 p.m.. Um,
and before that at 6 p.m.. There's also a tactile
tour that people can attend where they'll get to meet
Melanie and a couple of the dancers and, um, kind
of have a guided experience interacting with some of the
(19:05):
quite interesting props and set elements and costumes that are
in the work, and get a bit of kind of
more contextual info about the work directly from Melanie and
the artists. And then the audio described performance follows that.
And that's by, um, Nilgun Guven from the Veritas, who
we've been working with for a number of years now
to provide audio description and tactile tours, um, and other
(19:28):
kind of accessible programming alongside our major works.
S2 (19:31):
Had either of you had much experience working with people
in and around the blindness and low vision community. Before
you got in touch with Vita Veritas, or has this
been quite a interesting learning experience for you both over
the past two years? Melanie, I'll go back to you.
S4 (19:53):
Yeah. This is actually the second time I've worked with
a partner to work on an audio description or tactile tour,
but every time I do it, I feel like I
learn something new. And it's actually a really interesting process
as an artist, because it means you really have to
sort of translate your ideas in this much more sort
(20:14):
of visceral and sensorial way. And by doing that, I
feel like I actually learn more about the work that
I'm creating. Um, and what that experience is for an audience, um,
and for all audiences. And I think that that really
helps me actually think about how access is so important and,
and how it can really inform the way that you
create a work. So yeah, it's been a really just
(20:37):
a really great part of making, I think especially live performance.
And this work I feel like has a lot to offer, actually,
because we do work with a lot of sensorial elements,
as I kind of mentioned before. So I think live
sound is always really amazing to kind of feel in
the body as an audience. It's so direct and it
has this sort of vibration that really reaches or penetrates
(21:00):
the surface of the skin in a way. Um, and
also we're working for the first time or for my
first time with scent, which is a whole scent journey
throughout the work that sort of travels through these different worlds.
I guess it's part of the world building that we're doing.
So yeah, all these sort of elements have been informed
by what the experience is for the audience. It's been really, yeah,
(21:20):
really informative.
S2 (21:22):
That's really interesting that there's such a focus on those
other senses, you know, hearing, smell, touch. Was that an
intentional artistic direction, which then enabled you to make this
work much more accessible for people within the blindness and
(21:42):
low vision community. Or was that sort of a really
beneficial byproduct of the process?
S4 (21:49):
Yeah, I think it has been more and more I'm
kind of interested in creating worlds that are immersive, or
that you can feel that you are sitting inside of,
if that makes sense. So yeah, I feel like I'm
learning more and more about, well, how to do that.
And yeah, let's let's see. It's kind of like my
first work that I've really pushed into that space. So
(22:10):
I'm really I'm curious how I'm curious how the audience
will experience it. And yeah, also curious. Yeah. How the
different types of these aspects can inform the storytelling.
S2 (22:22):
Yeah. That's um, very interesting. I'll have to keep tabs
on that for sure. So maybe, um, catch up in
a few months. Time for another chat, but we'll see
what happens there. Now, Christina will come back to you
with similar questions that I was just asking Melanie a
little while ago in regards to your experiences with accessibility.
(22:44):
Audio description. Even before you'd gotten in touch with Nilgun,
had you had much to do with blindness and low vision,
or was this a bit of a new thing for you?
S5 (22:54):
Well, actually, we've always worked side by side with Nilgun
when trying to connect with blind and low vision communities.
I've known Nilgun when I was working at another arts
organization many years ago. And, you know, as we try
to increase the various accessible features of works and experiences
at Chunky Move, it was just an existing relationship I
(23:17):
had with Nilgun that I wanted to continue, and I
think this is probably now our fourth or fifth audio
described show and accompanying tactile tours over a number of
years now, I think. Yeah, probably going back to 2020. Yeah,
it was when we started working with her. So it's
obviously really different. Every different work that we make is
so unique and has different points of interest that are
(23:40):
either like Melanie's work that are kind of extra sensory
or kind of drawing on additional senses that make the
work more rich for people who are blind and low vision.
Or there's, you know, really interesting prop or set objects
that we get to explore that are really specific to
a particular work that are bespoke. So, yeah, it's been
kind of an evolving relationship with Nilgun to kind of
(24:01):
work out how we tweak those experiences that we offer
each time. Um, but always a really rich and enjoyable
experience and always really great when community come through. And yeah,
give us good feedback, although we're happy to hear how
we can do better.
S2 (24:15):
Always as well. Yeah, absolutely. And, um, in terms of
how people can get in touch with you, what's the
best way for people to find out more about Phantasm.
Find out more about chunky Move. Grab a ticket or
just find out a bit more about what the organizations
(24:36):
are doing in future.
S5 (24:37):
Yeah, there's a number of ways. So to find out
or to book for Phantasm, we've got an Eventbrite page
set up which is just Phantasm Eventbrite.com. Um, and as
well as booking tickets there, which we have some discounted
tickets for blind and low vision and also, um, people
with other disabilities. Um, and also companion card tickets are free. Um,
(25:00):
so you can book tickets through that page. But we've
also got links to our access guides. Um, and all
our kind of contact details are listed there too. Um,
you can also go to our website, which is just
chunky Move.com. Um, but we're also really happy to get
direct inquiries if that's easier. And the best way for
people to to find out more. So you can call
(25:21):
us during our business hours or reach out on our
email 96455188. Or you can email us at info at.
S2 (25:36):
Perfect. I've been speaking today with Melanie and Christina. Melanie,
of course, the choreographer of Phantasm, running from the 7th
to the 16th of August at Chunky Move Studios, and
Christina from Chunky Move telling us all about the studios
and the work they've been doing within the blind and
(25:58):
low vision community over the past few years in collaboration
with Vita Veritas. Melanie. Christina, thank you so much for
your time today. It was great to catch up with
you and have a chat about Phantasm and Chunky Move.
S4 (26:14):
Thanks, Sam.
S5 (26:15):
Yeah, thanks very much for having us.
S2 (26:25):
And that's all the time we have for today. You've
been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision
Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the
show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you.
So please get in touch anytime on our email at Australia.
(26:47):
That's all. One word at Vision Australia. But until next
week it's Sam Kerley saying bye for now.
S1 (27:00):
You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during
business hours on one 384 746. That's one 384 746
or by visiting Vision Australia. That's Vision Australia.
This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Colley.
S2 (00:31):
Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
and low vision.
S3 (00:39):
Looking into journey preparation. So planning, but also journey execution
as well for the blind and low vision community, particularly
with the focus in accessible tourism. Because tourism is quite
a planning intensive process and a really interested in how
(00:59):
does the information flow between the planning stage and the
execution stage, and how can we better design systems that
could support robust planning and therefore, in a way, support
independence while you're executing your journeys.
S2 (01:14):
Welcome to the show! This week I reconnected with a
monash PhD student who is currently looking into wayfinding and
tourism for members of the blind and low vision community
and how they either do or don't use AI to
find their way from point A to point B on
(01:37):
an everyday basis. That conversation is coming up very shortly,
so make sure to stick around. And then later on
in the show, I'll catch up with a couple of
individuals who are involved in a tactile tour and audio
described dance performance taking place on the 16th of August,
(01:58):
but you can also catch their show when it opens
on the seventh. I hope you'll enjoy this week's episode
of Talking Vision. About a year ago, I spoke to
a monash PhD student who at the time was looking
(02:19):
into independence, trust and privacy in accessible health apps. Well,
he's back with another study, which this time is looking
at how individuals who are blind or have low vision
use and interact with generative AI tools for planning and
wayfinding purposes to get from point A to B independently
(02:42):
and safely. His name is William Chen, and it's my
great pleasure to welcome him back to Talking Vision, to
have a chat. William, welcome back to Talking Vision. Thank
you very much for your time.
S3 (02:56):
Well, thank you so much for having me again. And
last time it was really, really great. So keen to
discuss further about what I've been up to and my
ambitious plans for the next couple of months.
S2 (03:06):
Well, let's have a bit of a recap and have
a bit of a chat about what you've been up
to over the past year or so. Since we last spoke,
you were working on, um, accessible health apps, as I
understand last time we were talking, and there's been some
progress there, but then you've been up to quite a
few other things.
S3 (03:25):
Yeah. So last time I was on this show, I
was talking about a study that I was running for,
an app that we developed to help and make over-the-counter
tests accessible to the blind and low vision community, and
it was a call out for participants to try out
our application. And thank you to everyone who's been listening
(03:49):
and participating in the study. We got a lot of
support and input from the community, and we're just in
the process of gathering all of that and publishing it.
So fingers crossed. Sometime this year we could publish that
and one of the conferences and of course, the next
steps are to find partners that are willing to take
(04:10):
this a step further, not necessarily commercialization, but bringing it
onto the market.
S2 (04:16):
And will some exciting news. You've started your p.h.d. What
are you getting up to there? And what's been your
key interests, um, in that sort of department?
S3 (04:28):
Yeah, so I just started my PhD. While I say
just started, I started around ten months ago and I've
been changing my directions quite a bit, but I think
I'm settling down into looking into journey preparation. So planning
but also journey execution as well for the blind and
(04:48):
low vision community, particularly with the focus in accessible tourism.
Because tourism is quite a planning intensive process and a
really interested in how does the information flow between the
planning stage and the execution stage, and how can we
better design systems that could support robust planning and therefore,
(05:12):
in a way, support independence while you're executing your journeys?
So a way that I think that we could possibly
investigate this is looking into how generative AI could play
a role in this workflow, which kind of brings me
into today's topic and why I'm on this show, to
talk about my next steps.
S2 (05:32):
Let's have a bit of a chat about a hypothesis
you might have, or some findings you've discovered. Has there
been any scholarship in the field already around the tools
for planning and wayfinding, or is this going to be
a completely new kind of path that you're going down
and really breaking some new ground, which is also quite exciting?
S3 (05:55):
Yeah. Um, well, it's a bit of both, I would say.
So in terms of existing scholarship, there has been research
into what are some tools that the community uses for
planning as well as execution? But there hasn't been much
research around linking the two stages together. And I think
that's where real gap exists, because we shouldn't approach these
(06:16):
two stages as separate things. They very much play into
each other. And that's because, well, how robust your planning
stage is directly impacts your level of confidence and independence
while you're executing it. But then after you execute your journey,
there's also a reflection stage where you look back and
(06:38):
you reflect on what went well, what didn't go so well,
and perhaps it could be in a format of just
mental notes, or it could be sharing your experiences online,
but this would then also influence your next planning stage
in how confident you might feel, or how willing you
might be to go down a certain pathway. So I'm
very much looking at these three stages of a journey
(07:01):
as a whole and really seeing it as an interconnected component.
And I think generative AI could be a really important
tool or could play a really critical role in this workflow,
because one of the problems that existing scholarship has revealed
is that it's really difficult to access information, not just
(07:23):
because some certain information are inaccessible, for example, graphical information,
but a lot of information are one outdated and two
just really widespread. So having to go on multiple websites
or having to dig through multiple sources just to get
adequate amounts of information to be confident enough to undertake
(07:44):
your journey is very, very labor intensive and generative. AI
could be really good at summarizing some of those information
and regurgitating those information and collecting them on your behalf.
So we think it could play a really important role
in this workflow, and we're just really trying to understand
is it really being used at the moment and how
(08:06):
is it being used?
S2 (08:07):
And William, I understand you've got some extra little bits
and pieces to just clarify for people out there.
S3 (08:15):
Yes. So I'd like to clarify that even though our
studies focus is on the use of AI based tools
in orientation mobility, you're 100% do not have to have
experience with AI based tools to participate in this study.
And that's because we're also really interested in why people
(08:37):
haven't used these tools, or why have you stopped using
these tools. So please don't feel like, oh, I don't
think I'm eligible to participate in the study because I
don't have experience with AI based tools. That's totally not
the case.
S2 (08:52):
William, I'm really interested to hear about why people don't
use these currently and how they compare with traditional tools. Now,
when you say traditional tools, what do you mean in particular?
Are you talking about, like the VoiceOver overlay to Google
Maps or other sort of voice activated apps that exist
(09:14):
already that aren't so much AI? They're just sort of
you put in, I want to go here. I'm here
right now. How do I get from point A to B,
that sort of thing?
S3 (09:23):
Yeah, that's an excellent question. And that's something that both
myself as well as the research team has been wrestling
for a bit. And I guess what we mean by
existing tools is those that you're right. So if you
were to just import I want to go from point
A to point B, for example, Google Maps. And utilizing
that along with VoiceOver. That's what we would consider to
(09:45):
be existing tools. So any tools that don't use any
form of artificial intelligence. Now we also understand that sometimes
it can be quite blurry whether a tool utilizes AI
or not. So more broadly speaking, existing tools are. You
can think of them as essentially rule based tools, if
(10:09):
you will. So something like be my eyes IRA. So
getting live assistants, um, from site to individuals or Google Maps.
And I guess what we consider to be AI or
generative AI could be optical character recognition. So any form
of text recognition, speech recognition. So interacting with your devices
(10:32):
through your voice or it could be generative AI. Or
it could be seeing AI where you take a photo
and it describes your surrounding environments. Those are all what
we consider to be AI. And that sort of encapsulated
inside our study. So we're not just, I guess, limiting
it to generative AI. So we're looking at AI as
(10:53):
a whole, but with a focus in generative AI.
S2 (10:56):
Okay. Interesting. And if people would like to take part
in the survey, what are the specifics of how the
survey is structured? What sort of thing can people expect
if they get in touch and take part in the survey?
S3 (11:13):
Yep. So if you want to get in touch with
us and take part in the survey, you'll receive an
explanatory statement from us. And the survey is completely anonymous
and it's online and it takes around, I would say
15 to 20 minutes to go through. There's just shy
of 20 questions to 25 questions ish. There's a range
(11:35):
because certain questions we'd like to elaborate a bit more
on based on your answers. And there is an associated reimbursement,
but because it's completely anonymous, it would be separate to
the survey that you'll be filling in where we're recording
down your email and that would not be linked to
your responses at all. And the reimbursement. You'll be entered
(11:59):
into a draw to receive one of $1,025 gift cards.
And we also would like to conduct a follow up study.
And it's completely optional. And you could record down whether
you would like to be invited to a follow up
study in the survey, and we'll reach out if you've indicated. Yes.
S2 (12:19):
What sort of time frame are you looking at, William?
What's the window of time where people can register their responses?
And is there a closing date at this point?
S3 (12:30):
Yeah. Excellent question. So today is the first day actually
that we're starting.
S2 (12:34):
Are fantastic.
S3 (12:35):
Collection. So July 23rd and we plan on um running
the data collection over the next month. So up until
the 23rd of August into the survey and for the
interview stage, we plan on starting that on the 30th
of July, all the way until the 30th of August.
S2 (12:54):
All right. Perfect. And if people would like to get
in touch and take part in the survey, what's the
best way for them to get in touch with you
and your team and have their say and give their input?
S3 (13:08):
Yeah. So you can reach out to myself personally via
my mobile phone or my email. So my phone number
is 0403Â 227Â 283. Or you could also email me at William.
(13:31):
So w I l l I a dot Chen. So
c h e n@monash.edu. So m o n a s
h dot. Edu.
S2 (13:51):
Perfect. Well, we'll look forward to hearing about all the
feedback and all the results from the study. So maybe
we'll have to get in touch with you. Um, in
six months or a year's time from now. So let's
keep tabs on how that's going. And, um, very interested
to hear how your day unfolds. So thank you very
(14:12):
much for your time today. It was great to catch
up again.
S3 (14:15):
Yeah. Thank you so much, Sam, for providing me with
this opportunity. And yeah, I'd be very, very keen to
come back in a couple of months to report on
some of the findings that we have. And I think
that's one of the things that myself, as well as
the people around us, could 100% be doing more. And
that is reporting back to the community on some of
our findings.
S2 (14:43):
I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking vision on
Vision Australia radio. Associated stations of Disability Media Australia and
the Reading Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that conversation
there with William Chen. If you missed any part of
that conversation with William or you'd love to hear it again.
(15:05):
Talking vision is available on the podcast app of your
choice or through the Vision Australia library. You can also
find the program on the Vision Australia Radio website at.
That's all. One word. From the 7th to the 16th
(15:27):
of August, choreographer Melanie Lane will be presenting her haunting
new dance work Phantasm, at Chunky Move Studios in Southbank,
including a tactile tour on the 16th of August at
6 p.m., PM, followed by an audio described show at
(15:47):
7 p.m. for audience members who are blind or have
low vision. And it's my great pleasure to welcome Melanie
on to Talking Vision right now alongside Christina Arnott from
Chunky Move. Melanie, Christina, welcome to Talking Vision. Thank you
very much for your time.
S4 (16:08):
Hi, Sam. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Great to chat.
S2 (16:11):
Now. Firstly, Melanie, I might start with you as the
choreographer of Phantasm. Tell us a bit about the show.
S4 (16:20):
Yeah, sure. So, um, Phantasm is a dance work for
four dancers, and it's really sort of unpacking the myths
and folklore around the feminine body. Um, something that I've
been interested in exploring, uh, for the last few years.
And it's a commission from Chunky Move. So it's something
I've worked on over the last two and a half
(16:41):
years and finally coming into fruition this August.
S2 (16:44):
Fantastic. And, um, tell us a bit about when the
dance work will be taking place at Chunky Move. I
understand it's coming up rather shortly now.
S4 (16:54):
It is. It's creeping up really fast, but, um, I'm
very excited about it. We've got live music, uh, and
the shows are quite immersive, so we're working with a
lot of different materials, um, and sent um, and different,
I guess, sort of sensorial elements in the work.
S2 (17:13):
Yeah. And, um, what dates will those be taking place?
S4 (17:17):
It opens on the 7th of August and runs for
two weeks until the 16th.
S2 (17:22):
Oh, fantastic. Now, Christina, I'll come over to you and
get a bit of info about Chunky Move. Tell us
a bit about the studios there.
S5 (17:32):
Yeah, sure. So, uh, Chunky Move is Victoria's flagship contemporary
dance company. Um, we were founded back in 1995, 95.
So it's our 30th birthday this year.
S2 (17:43):
Oh, okay. Happy birthday.
S5 (17:45):
Yeah. And the company is led by artistic director Anthony Hamilton.
And really, our ethos is to make genre defying contemporary dance.
So pushing the boundaries of the art form. And as
part of our program, we present major works by Anthony.
But we also are really proud to commission work and
support work by independent artists like Melanie as well. And
(18:08):
we run a classes program, um, all sorts of other
kind of professional development programs for local artists. Dance artists. Yeah.
S2 (18:16):
Perfect. Okay. And, um, I understand you'll be running quite
a few accessible events for audience members who are blind
or have low vision in terms of tactile tours and
audio description and those sorts of things. So give us
a bit of info about those and what days those
(18:37):
will be available and what sessions are available for people.
All that sort of thing.
S5 (18:43):
Yeah of course. So we'll we'll be running an audio
described performance on Saturday the 16th of August at 7 p.m.. Um,
and before that at 6 p.m.. There's also a tactile
tour that people can attend where they'll get to meet
Melanie and a couple of the dancers and, um, kind
of have a guided experience interacting with some of the
(19:05):
quite interesting props and set elements and costumes that are
in the work, and get a bit of kind of
more contextual info about the work directly from Melanie and
the artists. And then the audio described performance follows that.
And that's by, um, Nilgun Guven from the Veritas, who
we've been working with for a number of years now
to provide audio description and tactile tours, um, and other
(19:28):
kind of accessible programming alongside our major works.
S2 (19:31):
Had either of you had much experience working with people
in and around the blindness and low vision community. Before
you got in touch with Vita Veritas, or has this
been quite a interesting learning experience for you both over
the past two years? Melanie, I'll go back to you.
S4 (19:53):
Yeah. This is actually the second time I've worked with
a partner to work on an audio description or tactile tour,
but every time I do it, I feel like I
learn something new. And it's actually a really interesting process
as an artist, because it means you really have to
sort of translate your ideas in this much more sort
(20:14):
of visceral and sensorial way. And by doing that, I
feel like I actually learn more about the work that
I'm creating. Um, and what that experience is for an audience, um,
and for all audiences. And I think that that really
helps me actually think about how access is so important and,
and how it can really inform the way that you
create a work. So yeah, it's been a really just
(20:37):
a really great part of making, I think especially live performance.
And this work I feel like has a lot to offer, actually,
because we do work with a lot of sensorial elements,
as I kind of mentioned before. So I think live
sound is always really amazing to kind of feel in
the body as an audience. It's so direct and it
has this sort of vibration that really reaches or penetrates
(21:00):
the surface of the skin in a way. Um, and
also we're working for the first time or for my
first time with scent, which is a whole scent journey
throughout the work that sort of travels through these different worlds.
I guess it's part of the world building that we're doing.
So yeah, all these sort of elements have been informed
by what the experience is for the audience. It's been really, yeah,
(21:20):
really informative.
S2 (21:22):
That's really interesting that there's such a focus on those
other senses, you know, hearing, smell, touch. Was that an
intentional artistic direction, which then enabled you to make this
work much more accessible for people within the blindness and
(21:42):
low vision community. Or was that sort of a really
beneficial byproduct of the process?
S4 (21:49):
Yeah, I think it has been more and more I'm
kind of interested in creating worlds that are immersive, or
that you can feel that you are sitting inside of,
if that makes sense. So yeah, I feel like I'm
learning more and more about, well, how to do that.
And yeah, let's let's see. It's kind of like my
first work that I've really pushed into that space. So
(22:10):
I'm really I'm curious how I'm curious how the audience
will experience it. And yeah, also curious. Yeah. How the
different types of these aspects can inform the storytelling.
S2 (22:22):
Yeah. That's um, very interesting. I'll have to keep tabs
on that for sure. So maybe, um, catch up in
a few months. Time for another chat, but we'll see
what happens there. Now, Christina will come back to you
with similar questions that I was just asking Melanie a
little while ago in regards to your experiences with accessibility.
(22:44):
Audio description. Even before you'd gotten in touch with Nilgun,
had you had much to do with blindness and low vision,
or was this a bit of a new thing for you?
S5 (22:54):
Well, actually, we've always worked side by side with Nilgun
when trying to connect with blind and low vision communities.
I've known Nilgun when I was working at another arts
organization many years ago. And, you know, as we try
to increase the various accessible features of works and experiences
at Chunky Move, it was just an existing relationship I
(23:17):
had with Nilgun that I wanted to continue, and I
think this is probably now our fourth or fifth audio
described show and accompanying tactile tours over a number of
years now, I think. Yeah, probably going back to 2020. Yeah,
it was when we started working with her. So it's
obviously really different. Every different work that we make is
so unique and has different points of interest that are
(23:40):
either like Melanie's work that are kind of extra sensory
or kind of drawing on additional senses that make the
work more rich for people who are blind and low vision.
Or there's, you know, really interesting prop or set objects
that we get to explore that are really specific to
a particular work that are bespoke. So, yeah, it's been
kind of an evolving relationship with Nilgun to kind of
(24:01):
work out how we tweak those experiences that we offer
each time. Um, but always a really rich and enjoyable
experience and always really great when community come through. And yeah,
give us good feedback, although we're happy to hear how
we can do better.
S2 (24:15):
Always as well. Yeah, absolutely. And, um, in terms of
how people can get in touch with you, what's the
best way for people to find out more about Phantasm.
Find out more about chunky Move. Grab a ticket or
just find out a bit more about what the organizations
(24:36):
are doing in future.
S5 (24:37):
Yeah, there's a number of ways. So to find out
or to book for Phantasm, we've got an Eventbrite page
set up which is just Phantasm Eventbrite.com. Um, and as
well as booking tickets there, which we have some discounted
tickets for blind and low vision and also, um, people
with other disabilities. Um, and also companion card tickets are free. Um,
(25:00):
so you can book tickets through that page. But we've
also got links to our access guides. Um, and all
our kind of contact details are listed there too. Um,
you can also go to our website, which is just
chunky Move.com. Um, but we're also really happy to get
direct inquiries if that's easier. And the best way for
people to to find out more. So you can call
(25:21):
us during our business hours or reach out on our
email 96455188. Or you can email us at info at.
S2 (25:36):
Perfect. I've been speaking today with Melanie and Christina. Melanie,
of course, the choreographer of Phantasm, running from the 7th
to the 16th of August at Chunky Move Studios, and
Christina from Chunky Move telling us all about the studios
and the work they've been doing within the blind and
(25:58):
low vision community over the past few years in collaboration
with Vita Veritas. Melanie. Christina, thank you so much for
your time today. It was great to catch up with
you and have a chat about Phantasm and Chunky Move.
S4 (26:14):
Thanks, Sam.
S5 (26:15):
Yeah, thanks very much for having us.
S2 (26:25):
And that's all the time we have for today. You've
been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision
Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the
show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you.
So please get in touch anytime on our email at Australia.
(26:47):
That's all. One word at Vision Australia. But until next
week it's Sam Kerley saying bye for now.
S1 (27:00):
You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during
business hours on one 384 746. That's one 384 746
or by visiting Vision Australia. That's Vision Australia.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.