August 5, 2025 • 27 mins
Dr Erica Tandori and Dr Stu Favilla join Sam on the show this week to speak about their upcoming exhibition on X-ray crystallography during National Science Week, featuring tactile and braille interfaces as well as a soundscape.
You'll also hear from Liz who's back to tell us about the latest issue of For Your Information hitting inboxes this week.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:21):
From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
your host, Sam Colley.
S2 (00:31):
Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
and low vision.
S3 (00:38):
You listen, you touch, you feel, you read, and you
become absorbed in this wonderful world, this history of x
ray crystallography and how it's just unfolded. Amazing, amazing understandings
and inventions over the last hundred years.
S2 (00:53):
Welcome to the show. This week we feature two individuals
responsible for a sensory science exhibit taking place in conjunction
with National Science Week, where they'll be presenting a big,
tactile book of X-ray crystallography and everything that involves all
(01:16):
the quantum physics and fun sciencey bits and pieces. Their
names are Doctor Erica Tandoori and Doctor Stu Favela, and
you'll be hearing from them very shortly. And then after
we hear from Erica and Stu, it's my great pleasure
to welcome back Liz Dalakouras, editor of, for your Information,
(01:40):
to have a chat with us about the latest issue
of FYI. I hope you enjoy this week's episode of
Talking Vision. Coming up very shortly in conjunction with National
Science Week, our next two guests are taking a tactile
(02:01):
version of their sensory exhibit along the eastern seaboard through Melbourne,
Sydney and Brisbane, with a particular focus on X-ray crystallography.
Their names are Doctor Erica Tandoori and Doctor Stu Favela
and they join me right now. Erica, Stu, welcome to
(02:24):
Talking Vision. Thank you very much for your time.
S4 (02:27):
Hey, Sam.
S3 (02:28):
Thanks for having us, Sam.
S2 (02:29):
No problem at all. Now, today, Erica and Stu, we're
here to talk about a different light, multi-sensory science books
of x ray crystallography. And that's, um, a touring exhibition that's, um,
moving around Australia very shortly. So tell us a bit
about that one, Erica.
S3 (02:49):
Um, it's part of the beautiful National Science Week suite
of events across Australia. We kick off on Saturday the
9th of August at the Royal Society of Victoria. Beautiful
old building, gorgeous history there. And the exhibition starts off
there with our unveiling of the books, the multi-sensory interactive
(03:09):
science books, which are about x ray crystallography. And there's
an Australian connection in there because of the Bragg's the
father and son team, Henry and Lawrence Bragg, who had
such a foundational effect on the development of x ray
crystallography early in the 1900s. So that's brilliant. And then
we've also created, with our John Monash science students, a
(03:31):
sculpture of an x ray crystallography machine. And we have
some other student displays that have been created, which I
think Stu can tell you about because they're from our
Swinburne School of Design students. And then after that, we
travelled to the State Library of New South Wales Monday
afternoon at the State Library of New South Wales. On
the 11th of August, we'll have another exhibition. And then
(03:54):
following that the following Saturday at the State Library of Queensland.
So we're doing an eastern seaboard tour of A Different Light,
a multi-sensory journey into x ray crystallography. And it's very
nerdy and it's just quantum science, quantum physics, and everything's tactile.
And Stu's made a beautiful, amazing sounds and audio so
(04:15):
you can touch the books, feel the artworks. We've made
a lot of tactile graphics and we've, you know, we've
had our beautiful scientists from Monash University and the Ross
John lab writing into the books in like areas of expertise.
And then Stu has done all the beautiful audio that goes.
So you listen, you touch, you feel, you read, and
you become absorbed in this wonderful world, this history of
(04:38):
x ray crystallography and how it's just unfolded, amazing, amazing
understandings and inventions over the last hundred years or so.
I mean, the the amount of Nobel scientists as a
result of x ray crystallography has been pretty phenomenal. So
I think more than any other field, those scientists who
worked with x ray crystallography have gotten their Nobel Prizes
(04:59):
in in science. So it's super cool. And I'm just
blown away by quantum physics.
S2 (05:05):
Yeah.
S3 (05:06):
It's just amazing.
S2 (05:07):
Yeah, there's a lot there. That's certainly a lot to cover. Now, Stu,
Erica's mentioned a couple of things there. Um, from the
Swinburne side of things, plus the audio that you've been
involved with. So let's jump into those for a bit.
S4 (05:26):
Oh, yes. Like, one might be mistaken, thinking that this
is going to be like a quiet, uh, silent exhibition
where you come and put headphones on in a library
space and read a book. But, um, if you've ever
been to any of Erica's exhibitions in the past, you'll
know that there are real talk fest. Um, this is
(05:46):
something that we've learned through all of our work building
exhibitions for people with low vision and blindness. There's a
massive opportunity to socialize and talk, and I say low
vision and blindness with trepidation, because there's also such a
spectrum of vision in these events as well, and so
(06:07):
much to learn. So we always have tactile art and
interactive art. Last few years I've been doing music with
people's brains. You know, you can put a little dry
electrode device on you that looks like a set of headphones,
and pick up your brainwaves and get you to jam
and play music with them so they they can be,
at times, quite raucous events. I hope the Sydney State
(06:29):
Library realizes that. I think we'll be safe at the
Royal Society. So there is a sound component to the books.
I'm a composer and I'm really interested in synthesizers. I
got my first synthesizer in 1978, and I've been completely
addicted to those devices ever since then. So I play
piano as well, and I'm much more of a conventional
(06:49):
musician and in other environs, but I'm also a designer,
and that's kind of my principal profession now. Like I'm
an audio designer and interaction designer, so I love making software.
Love making things and sound also can be like a
form of display. It can convey data and things like that.
The ears got a way of picking up patterns and
(07:12):
things that the eyes cannot. So there's always a lot
of fun to have exploring turning data into sound as well. Yeah.
So we call that sonification, which is kind of, you know,
as soon as I say that people start, you know,
off to sleep, they go like, ah, unless they're super.
S2 (07:28):
Nervous. We're interested here. Well, we're happy to nerd out.
S3 (07:32):
And.
S2 (07:33):
You know.
S4 (07:33):
Thanks, Sam. You know.
S2 (07:35):
A lot of people out there. Well, quite a few,
I do imagine, who think, oh my God. Sonification. Yeah.
Tell me more.
S3 (07:42):
I think even being a non-scientist like I didn't pay
attention to science in high school. I have to confess,
I was the naughty girl at the back of the class.
But I think being an artist and and working on
these books and working at the Ross John lab and
immersed with the scientists and the things I've learnt as
science is so cool and it's just getting cooler with
the advent of AI, with the supercomputers that are coming
(08:06):
with quantum physics. And it's just it's really mind blowing.
And to actually be an artist, participating in the midst
of all this science is just amazing. But to be
a blind artist and then to be working in a tactile,
multi-sensory way, explaining, exploring and discovering the concepts of science
through touch and sound and visual art. Like I have
(08:28):
my residual vision, but there are so many other things
that have to support and guide that, including sound technology,
to create these artworks. It's just it's a real privilege.
S2 (08:38):
Mhm.
S3 (08:39):
It's just fascinating.
S2 (08:40):
And Erica, I'll stay with you and ask the quite
simple question why x ray crystallography.
S3 (08:48):
I think because I work at the Ross John lab
and I work in the Biomedicine Discovery Institute. X-ray crystallography
in the study of proteins at that atomic level as
just the discoveries that they're making, the research that's being done.
I mean, the electron microscope and the x ray crystallography,
they're at the heart of all this. But to see
these images and to see the beautiful things that these
(09:10):
cells and proteins and molecules are, their form, their shape,
and then the colours that we imbue them with through
our software. They're stunning. They're, you know, nature's miracles. They're
nanomachine technology in these little atomic machines. You know, these
cellular machines, they're beautiful. They're absolutely beautiful. And when I,
(09:31):
you know, finished my PhD, I'm looking for a job.
You know, I've done x amount of degrees in art,
and I come to the lab and I go, hang
on a minute. They're talking about form and function, the
shape of proteins and molecules. And then you know how
drugs are designed to fit and interlock on the surface of,
you know, and interrupt viruses. And it's all about form
and function and structure and, of course, other things, you know,
(09:53):
interactions and whatnot. But it lends itself to an exploration
through art and x ray. Crystallography is a mystery, and
it's amazing. And to see its history and its development
through time, you know, from the late 1800s and the
cathode ray machine. And then when Stu and I were
in England earlier last year and going to the Science
(10:14):
Museum and just being blown away by these machines that
were made hundreds of years ago. And this is the
x ray machine. This is the way it all started.
It's just so exciting. The history of all this is
so exciting. And I'm not a scientist. I'm exploring it
as a blind artist. And so the books show this
kind of unfolding of aspects of, well, what actually is
(10:36):
an atom? How do we understand what an atom is?
How does it behave? What's an electron? What's an electron cloud?
What what's the density? What? What's the atomic mass like?
I didn't pay attention in science class, but I'm paying
attention now because it's so fascinating. And when you get
down into that quantum level, it's just mind boggling. It's
(10:57):
so exciting.
S2 (10:58):
Well, it certainly is. I'm Sam Corley and you're listening
to Talking Vision on Vision Australia Radio, Associated Stations of
Disability Media Australia and the Community Radio Network. I hope
you're enjoying this conversation with Erica Tandoori and Stu Favela.
(11:24):
If you missed any part of that chat with Erica
and Stu or you'd love to hear it again. Talking
vision is available on the podcast app of your choice
or through the Vision Australia library. You can also find
the program on the Vision Australia Radio website at VA radio.
(11:45):
That's VA radio. And now back to part two of
my conversation with Erica and Stu, and we'll go from
the art side to the music side now with Stu,
and get into the heart of how do you make
music for this? How does that happen? Where do you
(12:07):
even begin with all that sort of thing? And what's
the process there?
S4 (12:11):
Yeah, that's a great question. And it's not the first
time I've been faced with these obstacles from Erica before.
I mean, we did another book. Oh yeah. And just
to get back to what Erica was saying, I should
just clarify. If you weren't listening to all of that stuff.
It's a work thing. Erica works at a place where
there's a synchrotron and there's X-ray crystallography happening every week. Right?
(12:33):
But the other thing I could say on the quantum
side of things is that 2025 is the United Nations
year of quantum science. So we thought we would maybe
go back to basics, because all the exhibitions that we've
done have been on more immunology themes, things like cancer viruses,
the gut biota.
S3 (12:53):
That was for the International Year of Fruits and Vegetables,
which was one of my favorite years.
S4 (12:59):
And Sam, you know, none of those themes say music
to me.
S5 (13:03):
No, you know what I mean? But you did a damn.
S3 (13:06):
Good job on the gut biota. I mean, that was fantastic.
Sonifying that.
S4 (13:10):
Yeah, I just went for the thing in the studio
that had the most potential for texture, and I started
building a bit of a synthesizer during Covid lockdown and, um, yeah,
gone back to kind of very early analog synthesis stuff. Why? Because, um,
I think with the digital things, you can do a
lot when you start coding and programming sound from scratch. But, um,
(13:34):
sometimes it's a lot more playful. To have this threshold,
you have to push against to exert the, you know,
the work of the mind. And analog synthesizers are lovely
because they give you such rabbit holes. You have little
cables and you can plug them into things. You have
timing signals and sound signals and control signals, and they're
(13:55):
all in the same electronic domain, and they can all
be deliciously mixed.
S2 (14:00):
That's right. They feel alive. It feels a bit more organic,
and it's like a living thing that you're communing with.
That's how people have described it.
S4 (14:10):
Yes. My little modular rack of sounds I will leave
on all day, and I usually chime in and listen
to it on the hour. Or, you know, when I
stop marking or whatever it is at work at lunchtime,
I'll turn it on and listen to it. It's amazing
how you leave it set up on one configuration, and
then you come back to it four hours later and
it's changed. It's different. It's like it's somehow resonated with
(14:33):
itself or the planet or something. I mean, I do
have lots of other things connected to it that are
just out there in the ether trying to pick up
electrical fields. You know, as I walk past or maybe
be connected to my pot plant or something like that,
but nonetheless, you come back to it and maybe the
oscillators have warmed up and things have cooled down here
(14:55):
and there, and it morphs during the day like it's alive.
And I really like that, you know, in this modern
day and age, you know, with mobile phones and stuff,
it's it's harder to find those kind of moments for
reflection through the day. So I really enjoy that process
for sure.
S3 (15:12):
It's such a mystery, like the way the music is
making itself, and it's just endlessly recreating who is the
author of this music, who's making it, who's thinking there's
like a ghost in the machine. It's just fascinating. There's
a whole philosophical question there in synthesizing. It's amazing.
S2 (15:30):
And if people would like to head along and experience
that stew, what's the best way for them to get
in contact with either yourself or Erica, or just find
a couple of places to register and find out a
little bit more about what both Swinburne and Monash are
(15:50):
up to in the future, if they perhaps aren't able
to head along to Science Week, but they're very interested
to find out a little bit more about what's coming
up in the future.
S4 (16:00):
Yeah. Good point Sam. So the best way to get
in contact is to get on Google and search for
Monash Sensory Science. And you'll arrive on our main website.
And there are normally links there to upcoming events that
you can register to. And just to reiterate our upcoming
(16:20):
Melbourne date, that's Saturday, the 9th of August from 11 a.m.
to 3 p.m. at eight La Trobe Street, Melbourne. The
Royal Society of Victoria and we're upstairs in the Cudmore
Library and Von Mueller room. Sydney's event were at the
State Library of New South Wales at the Michael Crouch
(16:40):
Map Room. And that's one Shakespeare play. Sydney. If you're
looking for it on a map, our event is Monday afternoon,
the 11th of August from two until six, and Brisbane
were at the State Library of Queensland the following Saturday
on the 16th of August, from 11 until three at
level four, directly opposite the lifts in the Heritage Collections
(17:04):
Learning Room.
S2 (17:06):
There you go.
S3 (17:06):
And it's all free.
S5 (17:08):
And.
S3 (17:08):
Everyone is welcome. People with blindness, low vision, their friends,
family carers, everyone's welcome. Every nerd and non-nerd is welcome
to come. Come and see. Come and touch and listen
and explore.
S4 (17:26):
Yeah, so we have gone from trying to make exhibitions
for people with low vision and blindness, to making exhibitions
for everyone inclusive. Yeah, we call it inclusive. And I
guess a lot of your listeners, will be familiar with
the term multimodal multimodal technologies. For example, we've kind of
(17:48):
moved from that idea to multisensory and really to understand
the difference between that. It's about moving from sensory modes
being channels of information to sensory perception with memory, emotion.
So very kind of different approach to trying to fit
a technology to someone who might have a specific need
(18:11):
or requirement. And we're really just reveling in the social
aspects of our exhibitions as well, and the situations that
they create, putting people in contact with each other and
making new friends, and also giving scientists the opportunity to
meet their audience or the taxpayers, which is really interesting
idea as well. Yeah. So inclusive exhibitions is what we're
(18:35):
kind of.
S5 (18:36):
Aiming for.
S3 (18:37):
And it's kind of come see our world, Come see
the way we see and understand the world through non vision.
And it's not sense substitution. It's not because I can't see.
I have to hear this or do. It's the thing
about the multisensory. To me it's like walking out into
your garden and you smell the beautiful smells and you
eat the beautiful fruits on the trees. And it's, it's
(19:00):
the way we were born in this multisensory, you know,
landscape of everything that stimulates and interests us. And I
think that's the way to learn. So in creating these
books and having had so many exhibitions now, and this
is now our third book, many thanks to National Science
Week and Inspiring Australia and the Australian Government Department of Industry,
(19:21):
Science and Resources. We've had the privilege to make these
books and these things sort of fold out like a
beautiful flower with, you know, so many possibilities of of
exploring and explaining and communicating all these different ideas. There
are so many different ways to go from the visual
to the tactile to the, you know, the sounds and
the smells and which we tried to introduce in our
(19:42):
last book with scratch and sniff stickers.
S5 (19:46):
That's always.
S2 (19:47):
That's always a bit of a challenge, but.
S5 (19:50):
You know, brings you right back to primary school.
S2 (19:52):
Yeah. Always fun. Yeah. Well, I've been speaking today with
Doctor Erica Tandori from Monash University's Ross John Laboratory alongside
designer and musician doctor Sue Favilla from the Swinburne University
of Technology, here to chat to me about their upcoming
(20:15):
exhibit A Different Light. Multisensory science books of x ray
crystallography coming to the east coast of Australia very soon. Erica. Stu,
we could talk forever and I'll have to have you
back in the next few months to, you know, catch
up and hear about all the new things you've got
(20:38):
in the pipeline, but for now, we'll have to wrap
it up there. Thank you very much to you both
for coming in and having a chat with me today.
It's been great.
S5 (20:47):
Thank you.
S3 (20:48):
Sam, thanks for inviting us. It's been a pleasure and
we look forward to seeing anyone and everyone who can
come along and join in the nerdy festivities and our
exhibition for National Science Week 2025.
S4 (21:02):
Thank you Sam.
S2 (21:05):
Well, we're now officially two thirds of the way through
the year, but there's no signs of slowing down as
the stories keep coming in thick and fast through vinous Gyres.
Newsletter for your information, and as always, it's my great
pleasure to welcome back editor of For Your Information, otherwise
(21:28):
known as FYI, none other than Liz Dalakouras. Chorus. Liz,
welcome back to Talking Vision. Great to have you.
S6 (21:37):
Thank you Sam. It's always so much fun coming in
and having a chat.
S2 (21:40):
Now first up Liz, there's an exciting little bit of
news for people out there. The 2025 Vision Australia Awards
are now open.
S6 (21:50):
Yeah, it's very exciting because it is time to celebrate
the people who make a difference. So if you know
someone who's making a real impact in the blind and
low vision community, now is your chance to spotlight them.
The nominations are now open for our 2025 Vision Australia Awards,
and the awards will be presented in October, so make
sure to get your nomination in before August the 15th.
(22:13):
And let's celebrate those people who really do go the
extra mile. Just visit us online and you can find
the link to do that.
S2 (22:19):
And Liz understand there's been some updates to Screen reader technology.
S6 (22:26):
There has. Yeah. Which is such an important sort of
assistive technology for our blind low vision community. So there
are some big changes coming for Jaws, zoom, Text, and
Fusion users. So the software is switching from a one
off purchase to a subscription based model, which could affect
how you access your current rounds of information, updates and supports.
(22:47):
So if you're not sure what that means exactly, just
visit our news section on the website and you'll find
that link to have that all broken down for you.
S2 (22:55):
All right. And for our job seekers and people making
their way into the workforce, a lot of people out
there experiencing various challenges with employment, people who experience blindness
and low vision and various things that they face. But
career visions, that's where they come in. So there's been
(23:15):
a bit of info about that lately.
S6 (23:17):
Yeah, there has been. It's such a great program because
you could be ready to kickstart your career. It might
be time to switch industries. Or maybe you're a parent
thinking about going back to work. And that's where the
Vision Australia's career visions is here to help you. So
it's a 23 week program, which runs from the 27th
of September to the 27th of February, so ending early
(23:39):
next year. And it offers tailored support to build your
job readiness skills. So the program will do what is
best going to suit you. Expressions of interest are now open.
You can find that information on our website.
S2 (23:51):
Wonderful. And Liz, there's always some audio description offerings for
people to look forward to. And coming up very shortly
is no exception.
S6 (24:02):
Absolutely. Our team here at Vision Australia do some amazing
audio description work. 100% agree. So in very exciting news,
the very famous The Talented Mr. Ripley is going down
to New South Wales. He's just an iconic character and
I didn't realise that he'd been chilling audiences for the
last 70 years.
S2 (24:22):
Unbelievable.
S6 (24:23):
Well, I know it's amazing. Yeah, amazing. If I think
back to the Matt Damon movie, I thought that was
in line with when the book was released, but no.
S2 (24:30):
There's quite a few editions.
S6 (24:32):
Absolutely. So September 16th. In New South Wales, you can
watch an audio described version of the play.
S2 (24:38):
And Liz, the year is going so fast and this
next bit is going to just scare a few people.
It's the Santa fun run. Oh my god.
S6 (24:47):
Absolutely. It scared me when I included it in the
newsletter and I wrote my headline, Get Ready to Jingle
All the Way. It just snuck up so quickly.
S2 (24:55):
It's certainly.
S6 (24:56):
The Santa. Yeah, the Santa Fun Run is back for
another year in Melbourne, and it's happening on the 22nd
of November at the town track. And right now, if
you're quick to grab your tickets and use the code
VA client 25, you get 15% off. So we won't
be in Sydney this year, but you can still spread
the festive cheer by donating or sponsoring a Santa fun
(25:18):
run for yourself. It's a great day. It's always so
much fun and it's never too early to think about Christmas.
S2 (25:24):
And it's all for a good cause. That's the main thing.
It does help Vision Australia so greatly and every donation
is greatly appreciated. So head down and spread some Christmas
cheer as Liz says and spread the word. Every donation helps,
so make sure to head down now in terms of
(25:45):
how people can access all these stories and more, you
can simply head to the Vision Australia website at Vision Australia.
That's Vision Australia and search for your information to get
your details on the FYI mailing list in no time. Liz,
(26:07):
thank you so much for your time today. Great to
have you as always and look forward to hearing about
future editions of FYI.
S6 (26:16):
Absolutely, Sam, thank you for having me. It's always such
a good time.
S2 (26:25):
And that's all the time we have for today. You've
been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision
Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the
show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you.
So please get in touch anytime on our email at Australia.
(26:48):
That's all. One word at Vision Australia. But until next
week it's Sam Corley saying bye for now.
S1 (27:00):
You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during
business hours on one 384 746. That's one 384 746
or by visiting Vision Australia. That's Vision Australia.
From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
your host, Sam Colley.
S2 (00:31):
Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
and low vision.
S3 (00:38):
You listen, you touch, you feel, you read, and you
become absorbed in this wonderful world, this history of x
ray crystallography and how it's just unfolded. Amazing, amazing understandings
and inventions over the last hundred years.
S2 (00:53):
Welcome to the show. This week we feature two individuals
responsible for a sensory science exhibit taking place in conjunction
with National Science Week, where they'll be presenting a big,
tactile book of X-ray crystallography and everything that involves all
(01:16):
the quantum physics and fun sciencey bits and pieces. Their
names are Doctor Erica Tandoori and Doctor Stu Favela, and
you'll be hearing from them very shortly. And then after
we hear from Erica and Stu, it's my great pleasure
to welcome back Liz Dalakouras, editor of, for your Information,
(01:40):
to have a chat with us about the latest issue
of FYI. I hope you enjoy this week's episode of
Talking Vision. Coming up very shortly in conjunction with National
Science Week, our next two guests are taking a tactile
(02:01):
version of their sensory exhibit along the eastern seaboard through Melbourne,
Sydney and Brisbane, with a particular focus on X-ray crystallography.
Their names are Doctor Erica Tandoori and Doctor Stu Favela
and they join me right now. Erica, Stu, welcome to
(02:24):
Talking Vision. Thank you very much for your time.
S4 (02:27):
Hey, Sam.
S3 (02:28):
Thanks for having us, Sam.
S2 (02:29):
No problem at all. Now, today, Erica and Stu, we're
here to talk about a different light, multi-sensory science books
of x ray crystallography. And that's, um, a touring exhibition that's, um,
moving around Australia very shortly. So tell us a bit
about that one, Erica.
S3 (02:49):
Um, it's part of the beautiful National Science Week suite
of events across Australia. We kick off on Saturday the
9th of August at the Royal Society of Victoria. Beautiful
old building, gorgeous history there. And the exhibition starts off
there with our unveiling of the books, the multi-sensory interactive
(03:09):
science books, which are about x ray crystallography. And there's
an Australian connection in there because of the Bragg's the
father and son team, Henry and Lawrence Bragg, who had
such a foundational effect on the development of x ray
crystallography early in the 1900s. So that's brilliant. And then
we've also created, with our John Monash science students, a
(03:31):
sculpture of an x ray crystallography machine. And we have
some other student displays that have been created, which I
think Stu can tell you about because they're from our
Swinburne School of Design students. And then after that, we
travelled to the State Library of New South Wales Monday
afternoon at the State Library of New South Wales. On
the 11th of August, we'll have another exhibition. And then
(03:54):
following that the following Saturday at the State Library of Queensland.
So we're doing an eastern seaboard tour of A Different Light,
a multi-sensory journey into x ray crystallography. And it's very
nerdy and it's just quantum science, quantum physics, and everything's tactile.
And Stu's made a beautiful, amazing sounds and audio so
(04:15):
you can touch the books, feel the artworks. We've made
a lot of tactile graphics and we've, you know, we've
had our beautiful scientists from Monash University and the Ross
John lab writing into the books in like areas of expertise.
And then Stu has done all the beautiful audio that goes.
So you listen, you touch, you feel, you read, and
you become absorbed in this wonderful world, this history of
(04:38):
x ray crystallography and how it's just unfolded, amazing, amazing
understandings and inventions over the last hundred years or so.
I mean, the the amount of Nobel scientists as a
result of x ray crystallography has been pretty phenomenal. So
I think more than any other field, those scientists who
worked with x ray crystallography have gotten their Nobel Prizes
(04:59):
in in science. So it's super cool. And I'm just
blown away by quantum physics.
S2 (05:05):
Yeah.
S3 (05:06):
It's just amazing.
S2 (05:07):
Yeah, there's a lot there. That's certainly a lot to cover. Now, Stu,
Erica's mentioned a couple of things there. Um, from the
Swinburne side of things, plus the audio that you've been
involved with. So let's jump into those for a bit.
S4 (05:26):
Oh, yes. Like, one might be mistaken, thinking that this
is going to be like a quiet, uh, silent exhibition
where you come and put headphones on in a library
space and read a book. But, um, if you've ever
been to any of Erica's exhibitions in the past, you'll
know that there are real talk fest. Um, this is
(05:46):
something that we've learned through all of our work building
exhibitions for people with low vision and blindness. There's a
massive opportunity to socialize and talk, and I say low
vision and blindness with trepidation, because there's also such a
spectrum of vision in these events as well, and so
(06:07):
much to learn. So we always have tactile art and
interactive art. Last few years I've been doing music with
people's brains. You know, you can put a little dry
electrode device on you that looks like a set of headphones,
and pick up your brainwaves and get you to jam
and play music with them so they they can be,
at times, quite raucous events. I hope the Sydney State
(06:29):
Library realizes that. I think we'll be safe at the
Royal Society. So there is a sound component to the books.
I'm a composer and I'm really interested in synthesizers. I
got my first synthesizer in 1978, and I've been completely
addicted to those devices ever since then. So I play
piano as well, and I'm much more of a conventional
(06:49):
musician and in other environs, but I'm also a designer,
and that's kind of my principal profession now. Like I'm
an audio designer and interaction designer, so I love making software.
Love making things and sound also can be like a
form of display. It can convey data and things like that.
The ears got a way of picking up patterns and
(07:12):
things that the eyes cannot. So there's always a lot
of fun to have exploring turning data into sound as well. Yeah.
So we call that sonification, which is kind of, you know,
as soon as I say that people start, you know,
off to sleep, they go like, ah, unless they're super.
S2 (07:28):
Nervous. We're interested here. Well, we're happy to nerd out.
S3 (07:32):
And.
S2 (07:33):
You know.
S4 (07:33):
Thanks, Sam. You know.
S2 (07:35):
A lot of people out there. Well, quite a few,
I do imagine, who think, oh my God. Sonification. Yeah.
Tell me more.
S3 (07:42):
I think even being a non-scientist like I didn't pay
attention to science in high school. I have to confess,
I was the naughty girl at the back of the class.
But I think being an artist and and working on
these books and working at the Ross John lab and
immersed with the scientists and the things I've learnt as
science is so cool and it's just getting cooler with
the advent of AI, with the supercomputers that are coming
(08:06):
with quantum physics. And it's just it's really mind blowing.
And to actually be an artist, participating in the midst
of all this science is just amazing. But to be
a blind artist and then to be working in a tactile,
multi-sensory way, explaining, exploring and discovering the concepts of science
through touch and sound and visual art. Like I have
(08:28):
my residual vision, but there are so many other things
that have to support and guide that, including sound technology,
to create these artworks. It's just it's a real privilege.
S2 (08:38):
Mhm.
S3 (08:39):
It's just fascinating.
S2 (08:40):
And Erica, I'll stay with you and ask the quite
simple question why x ray crystallography.
S3 (08:48):
I think because I work at the Ross John lab
and I work in the Biomedicine Discovery Institute. X-ray crystallography
in the study of proteins at that atomic level as
just the discoveries that they're making, the research that's being done.
I mean, the electron microscope and the x ray crystallography,
they're at the heart of all this. But to see
these images and to see the beautiful things that these
(09:10):
cells and proteins and molecules are, their form, their shape,
and then the colours that we imbue them with through
our software. They're stunning. They're, you know, nature's miracles. They're
nanomachine technology in these little atomic machines. You know, these
cellular machines, they're beautiful. They're absolutely beautiful. And when I,
(09:31):
you know, finished my PhD, I'm looking for a job.
You know, I've done x amount of degrees in art,
and I come to the lab and I go, hang
on a minute. They're talking about form and function, the
shape of proteins and molecules. And then you know how
drugs are designed to fit and interlock on the surface of,
you know, and interrupt viruses. And it's all about form
and function and structure and, of course, other things, you know,
(09:53):
interactions and whatnot. But it lends itself to an exploration
through art and x ray. Crystallography is a mystery, and
it's amazing. And to see its history and its development
through time, you know, from the late 1800s and the
cathode ray machine. And then when Stu and I were
in England earlier last year and going to the Science
(10:14):
Museum and just being blown away by these machines that
were made hundreds of years ago. And this is the
x ray machine. This is the way it all started.
It's just so exciting. The history of all this is
so exciting. And I'm not a scientist. I'm exploring it
as a blind artist. And so the books show this
kind of unfolding of aspects of, well, what actually is
(10:36):
an atom? How do we understand what an atom is?
How does it behave? What's an electron? What's an electron cloud?
What what's the density? What? What's the atomic mass like?
I didn't pay attention in science class, but I'm paying
attention now because it's so fascinating. And when you get
down into that quantum level, it's just mind boggling. It's
(10:57):
so exciting.
S2 (10:58):
Well, it certainly is. I'm Sam Corley and you're listening
to Talking Vision on Vision Australia Radio, Associated Stations of
Disability Media Australia and the Community Radio Network. I hope
you're enjoying this conversation with Erica Tandoori and Stu Favela.
(11:24):
If you missed any part of that chat with Erica
and Stu or you'd love to hear it again. Talking
vision is available on the podcast app of your choice
or through the Vision Australia library. You can also find
the program on the Vision Australia Radio website at VA radio.
(11:45):
That's VA radio. And now back to part two of
my conversation with Erica and Stu, and we'll go from
the art side to the music side now with Stu,
and get into the heart of how do you make
music for this? How does that happen? Where do you
(12:07):
even begin with all that sort of thing? And what's
the process there?
S4 (12:11):
Yeah, that's a great question. And it's not the first
time I've been faced with these obstacles from Erica before.
I mean, we did another book. Oh yeah. And just
to get back to what Erica was saying, I should
just clarify. If you weren't listening to all of that stuff.
It's a work thing. Erica works at a place where
there's a synchrotron and there's X-ray crystallography happening every week. Right?
(12:33):
But the other thing I could say on the quantum
side of things is that 2025 is the United Nations
year of quantum science. So we thought we would maybe
go back to basics, because all the exhibitions that we've
done have been on more immunology themes, things like cancer viruses,
the gut biota.
S3 (12:53):
That was for the International Year of Fruits and Vegetables,
which was one of my favorite years.
S4 (12:59):
And Sam, you know, none of those themes say music
to me.
S5 (13:03):
No, you know what I mean? But you did a damn.
S3 (13:06):
Good job on the gut biota. I mean, that was fantastic.
Sonifying that.
S4 (13:10):
Yeah, I just went for the thing in the studio
that had the most potential for texture, and I started
building a bit of a synthesizer during Covid lockdown and, um, yeah,
gone back to kind of very early analog synthesis stuff. Why? Because, um,
I think with the digital things, you can do a
lot when you start coding and programming sound from scratch. But, um,
(13:34):
sometimes it's a lot more playful. To have this threshold,
you have to push against to exert the, you know,
the work of the mind. And analog synthesizers are lovely
because they give you such rabbit holes. You have little
cables and you can plug them into things. You have
timing signals and sound signals and control signals, and they're
(13:55):
all in the same electronic domain, and they can all
be deliciously mixed.
S2 (14:00):
That's right. They feel alive. It feels a bit more organic,
and it's like a living thing that you're communing with.
That's how people have described it.
S4 (14:10):
Yes. My little modular rack of sounds I will leave
on all day, and I usually chime in and listen
to it on the hour. Or, you know, when I
stop marking or whatever it is at work at lunchtime,
I'll turn it on and listen to it. It's amazing
how you leave it set up on one configuration, and
then you come back to it four hours later and
it's changed. It's different. It's like it's somehow resonated with
(14:33):
itself or the planet or something. I mean, I do
have lots of other things connected to it that are
just out there in the ether trying to pick up
electrical fields. You know, as I walk past or maybe
be connected to my pot plant or something like that,
but nonetheless, you come back to it and maybe the
oscillators have warmed up and things have cooled down here
(14:55):
and there, and it morphs during the day like it's alive.
And I really like that, you know, in this modern
day and age, you know, with mobile phones and stuff,
it's it's harder to find those kind of moments for
reflection through the day. So I really enjoy that process
for sure.
S3 (15:12):
It's such a mystery, like the way the music is
making itself, and it's just endlessly recreating who is the
author of this music, who's making it, who's thinking there's
like a ghost in the machine. It's just fascinating. There's
a whole philosophical question there in synthesizing. It's amazing.
S2 (15:30):
And if people would like to head along and experience
that stew, what's the best way for them to get
in contact with either yourself or Erica, or just find
a couple of places to register and find out a
little bit more about what both Swinburne and Monash are
(15:50):
up to in the future, if they perhaps aren't able
to head along to Science Week, but they're very interested
to find out a little bit more about what's coming
up in the future.
S4 (16:00):
Yeah. Good point Sam. So the best way to get
in contact is to get on Google and search for
Monash Sensory Science. And you'll arrive on our main website.
And there are normally links there to upcoming events that
you can register to. And just to reiterate our upcoming
(16:20):
Melbourne date, that's Saturday, the 9th of August from 11 a.m.
to 3 p.m. at eight La Trobe Street, Melbourne. The
Royal Society of Victoria and we're upstairs in the Cudmore
Library and Von Mueller room. Sydney's event were at the
State Library of New South Wales at the Michael Crouch
(16:40):
Map Room. And that's one Shakespeare play. Sydney. If you're
looking for it on a map, our event is Monday afternoon,
the 11th of August from two until six, and Brisbane
were at the State Library of Queensland the following Saturday
on the 16th of August, from 11 until three at
level four, directly opposite the lifts in the Heritage Collections
(17:04):
Learning Room.
S2 (17:06):
There you go.
S3 (17:06):
And it's all free.
S5 (17:08):
And.
S3 (17:08):
Everyone is welcome. People with blindness, low vision, their friends,
family carers, everyone's welcome. Every nerd and non-nerd is welcome
to come. Come and see. Come and touch and listen
and explore.
S4 (17:26):
Yeah, so we have gone from trying to make exhibitions
for people with low vision and blindness, to making exhibitions
for everyone inclusive. Yeah, we call it inclusive. And I
guess a lot of your listeners, will be familiar with
the term multimodal multimodal technologies. For example, we've kind of
(17:48):
moved from that idea to multisensory and really to understand
the difference between that. It's about moving from sensory modes
being channels of information to sensory perception with memory, emotion.
So very kind of different approach to trying to fit
a technology to someone who might have a specific need
(18:11):
or requirement. And we're really just reveling in the social
aspects of our exhibitions as well, and the situations that
they create, putting people in contact with each other and
making new friends, and also giving scientists the opportunity to
meet their audience or the taxpayers, which is really interesting
idea as well. Yeah. So inclusive exhibitions is what we're
(18:35):
kind of.
S5 (18:36):
Aiming for.
S3 (18:37):
And it's kind of come see our world, Come see
the way we see and understand the world through non vision.
And it's not sense substitution. It's not because I can't see.
I have to hear this or do. It's the thing
about the multisensory. To me it's like walking out into
your garden and you smell the beautiful smells and you
eat the beautiful fruits on the trees. And it's, it's
(19:00):
the way we were born in this multisensory, you know,
landscape of everything that stimulates and interests us. And I
think that's the way to learn. So in creating these
books and having had so many exhibitions now, and this
is now our third book, many thanks to National Science
Week and Inspiring Australia and the Australian Government Department of Industry,
(19:21):
Science and Resources. We've had the privilege to make these
books and these things sort of fold out like a
beautiful flower with, you know, so many possibilities of of
exploring and explaining and communicating all these different ideas. There
are so many different ways to go from the visual
to the tactile to the, you know, the sounds and
the smells and which we tried to introduce in our
(19:42):
last book with scratch and sniff stickers.
S5 (19:46):
That's always.
S2 (19:47):
That's always a bit of a challenge, but.
S5 (19:50):
You know, brings you right back to primary school.
S2 (19:52):
Yeah. Always fun. Yeah. Well, I've been speaking today with
Doctor Erica Tandori from Monash University's Ross John Laboratory alongside
designer and musician doctor Sue Favilla from the Swinburne University
of Technology, here to chat to me about their upcoming
(20:15):
exhibit A Different Light. Multisensory science books of x ray
crystallography coming to the east coast of Australia very soon. Erica. Stu,
we could talk forever and I'll have to have you
back in the next few months to, you know, catch
up and hear about all the new things you've got
(20:38):
in the pipeline, but for now, we'll have to wrap
it up there. Thank you very much to you both
for coming in and having a chat with me today.
It's been great.
S5 (20:47):
Thank you.
S3 (20:48):
Sam, thanks for inviting us. It's been a pleasure and
we look forward to seeing anyone and everyone who can
come along and join in the nerdy festivities and our
exhibition for National Science Week 2025.
S4 (21:02):
Thank you Sam.
S2 (21:05):
Well, we're now officially two thirds of the way through
the year, but there's no signs of slowing down as
the stories keep coming in thick and fast through vinous Gyres.
Newsletter for your information, and as always, it's my great
pleasure to welcome back editor of For Your Information, otherwise
(21:28):
known as FYI, none other than Liz Dalakouras. Chorus. Liz,
welcome back to Talking Vision. Great to have you.
S6 (21:37):
Thank you Sam. It's always so much fun coming in
and having a chat.
S2 (21:40):
Now first up Liz, there's an exciting little bit of
news for people out there. The 2025 Vision Australia Awards
are now open.
S6 (21:50):
Yeah, it's very exciting because it is time to celebrate
the people who make a difference. So if you know
someone who's making a real impact in the blind and
low vision community, now is your chance to spotlight them.
The nominations are now open for our 2025 Vision Australia Awards,
and the awards will be presented in October, so make
sure to get your nomination in before August the 15th.
(22:13):
And let's celebrate those people who really do go the
extra mile. Just visit us online and you can find
the link to do that.
S2 (22:19):
And Liz understand there's been some updates to Screen reader technology.
S6 (22:26):
There has. Yeah. Which is such an important sort of
assistive technology for our blind low vision community. So there
are some big changes coming for Jaws, zoom, Text, and
Fusion users. So the software is switching from a one
off purchase to a subscription based model, which could affect
how you access your current rounds of information, updates and supports.
(22:47):
So if you're not sure what that means exactly, just
visit our news section on the website and you'll find
that link to have that all broken down for you.
S2 (22:55):
All right. And for our job seekers and people making
their way into the workforce, a lot of people out
there experiencing various challenges with employment, people who experience blindness
and low vision and various things that they face. But
career visions, that's where they come in. So there's been
(23:15):
a bit of info about that lately.
S6 (23:17):
Yeah, there has been. It's such a great program because
you could be ready to kickstart your career. It might
be time to switch industries. Or maybe you're a parent
thinking about going back to work. And that's where the
Vision Australia's career visions is here to help you. So
it's a 23 week program, which runs from the 27th
of September to the 27th of February, so ending early
(23:39):
next year. And it offers tailored support to build your
job readiness skills. So the program will do what is
best going to suit you. Expressions of interest are now open.
You can find that information on our website.
S2 (23:51):
Wonderful. And Liz, there's always some audio description offerings for
people to look forward to. And coming up very shortly
is no exception.
S6 (24:02):
Absolutely. Our team here at Vision Australia do some amazing
audio description work. 100% agree. So in very exciting news,
the very famous The Talented Mr. Ripley is going down
to New South Wales. He's just an iconic character and
I didn't realise that he'd been chilling audiences for the
last 70 years.
S2 (24:22):
Unbelievable.
S6 (24:23):
Well, I know it's amazing. Yeah, amazing. If I think
back to the Matt Damon movie, I thought that was
in line with when the book was released, but no.
S2 (24:30):
There's quite a few editions.
S6 (24:32):
Absolutely. So September 16th. In New South Wales, you can
watch an audio described version of the play.
S2 (24:38):
And Liz, the year is going so fast and this
next bit is going to just scare a few people.
It's the Santa fun run. Oh my god.
S6 (24:47):
Absolutely. It scared me when I included it in the
newsletter and I wrote my headline, Get Ready to Jingle
All the Way. It just snuck up so quickly.
S2 (24:55):
It's certainly.
S6 (24:56):
The Santa. Yeah, the Santa Fun Run is back for
another year in Melbourne, and it's happening on the 22nd
of November at the town track. And right now, if
you're quick to grab your tickets and use the code
VA client 25, you get 15% off. So we won't
be in Sydney this year, but you can still spread
the festive cheer by donating or sponsoring a Santa fun
(25:18):
run for yourself. It's a great day. It's always so
much fun and it's never too early to think about Christmas.
S2 (25:24):
And it's all for a good cause. That's the main thing.
It does help Vision Australia so greatly and every donation
is greatly appreciated. So head down and spread some Christmas
cheer as Liz says and spread the word. Every donation helps,
so make sure to head down now in terms of
(25:45):
how people can access all these stories and more, you
can simply head to the Vision Australia website at Vision Australia.
That's Vision Australia and search for your information to get
your details on the FYI mailing list in no time. Liz,
(26:07):
thank you so much for your time today. Great to
have you as always and look forward to hearing about
future editions of FYI.
S6 (26:16):
Absolutely, Sam, thank you for having me. It's always such
a good time.
S2 (26:25):
And that's all the time we have for today. You've
been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision
Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the
show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you.
So please get in touch anytime on our email at Australia.
(26:48):
That's all. One word at Vision Australia. But until next
week it's Sam Corley saying bye for now.
S1 (27:00):
You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during
business hours on one 384 746. That's one 384 746
or by visiting Vision Australia. That's Vision Australia.
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