March 30, 2025 • 43 mins
Today on the poddy we chat with Dr Leona Yip. She is a medical dermatologist who is a huge advocate for sun sense/safety and loving the skin you are in.
We chat about all things medicine, life, being a working Mum, owning and running her practice called Skin Partners, and just taking time for herself.
Leona and I have been pen pals (sounds a little weird) for a long time. Recording this podcast was the first time we had met in person, and we had so much to talk about.
I truly appreciated the candid conversation we had. We discussed the highs and lows of medicine, how complex dermatology is, and the changing landscape of medicine.
I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did recording it.
Bek x
https://www.skinpartners.com.au/
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/tendernessnurses
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apoge Production.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hi. My name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm grateful for the person that I had the opportunity
to be, so.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I hit it and parked it for Nelly four years.
We always have free will, We always get to choose.
We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi everybody, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness
for Nurses Today. I have the fabulous doctor Leoni Yip,
who is a dermatologist here in Brisbane. We have literally
been pinpals and haven't been able to catch up for
probably the last six years. I met her through another
very good friend of mine, Katie, who did it a
(00:50):
sort of like online introduction as they'd worked together down
in Melbourne. So thank you for taking the time to
come and have a chat.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you for having that.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Is so lovely to meet you finally after five or
six years texting social media messages and you've been virtual
until right now, right now.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
It's crazy, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, you moved up from Brisbane from Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Sorry how long ago?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Actually we moved from with my ex husband and my children.
We moved from Melbourne to Canberra for his job that
didn't really work out. So we were there for five
to six years, and unfortunately went through a really difficult
time with how his job turned out, and we ended
up in Brisbane surrendipitously because there was an offer here
and I had only ever been to Brisbane once before
(01:38):
that I knew nothing about Brisbane, and so we took
the chance and it's worked out quite well. The kids
love it, and this is now my home. I used
to be resentful that we had left Melbourne, and I
think I held onto that resentment when I was in
Canberra because it took a while to set up my
network of friends, patients and just to feel like I belonged.
(01:58):
It was a lot easier to do that in Brisbane.
And now you know, I still miss Melbourne. It's always
my spiritual home. I'm not resentful anymore. So Brisbane is
now the place for me.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Did you find it easier to make connections and networks
here in Brisbane or you already knew people up here.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It was an interesting time because COVID happened.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So we moved here in June twenty nineteen, I think,
and it was re establishing myself in a new city,
and by that stage I was already out for quite
a few years. So I was a senior dematologist and
coming to a new city where no one knew me,
including GPS patients. And there were some quiet, hurtful commands
(02:40):
being made when I was establishing myself here, like why
are you so easy to get into? My dematologies has
always booked up for six months? And you know, writing
letters back I remember to GPS and then one called
me and said she didn't like the way I was writing.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
My letters backter.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I've been writing the letters the way I've had for
the last few years and had no issues. So just
teething issues in a new city, people trying to suss
me out. I'm trying to suss the system out. And yeah,
it took me a while to find myself. But definitely
people the Cambarans are great people, don't get me wrong.
But it's just such a transient city that it was
(03:17):
hard to establish networks and I felt very lonely, and
having my second child, Elliott there he was born there,
I was very much still resentful that we had left
Melbourne because my networks were there and I felt alone.
But in Brisbane, the kids were a little bit bigger,
and I just felt that people were warming. It was
easier to have that network. And then COVID happened, and
(03:39):
then COVID happened, and that was how I met you texting.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah. Yes. It was also very testing.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Time for us because we had purchased a house and
with the move it was lack of work and financially
we had a mortgage to pay, having to homeschool the children.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It was all incredibly stressful.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But after that happened, it was good that because in
my line of work as a dematologist, I do medical
dermatology and surgical dematology, so we could still do the
bare minimum to help patients with excimil batsisis or skin cancers.
So I had that outlet where I could go to
work and see people and patients coming in who felt lonely,
(04:21):
they were sad with the situation.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And just having that contact with people really worked.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It was stressful, we got through it, and I think now,
few years down the track, I am happy.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I won't say it's problem free. It never is.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
There's always challenges. I hate to use the word stress,
but there's always stress that we have to navigate. But yeah,
I think I'm in a good place at.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
The moment after COVID you set up your own practice
at West End, which is a bit fabulous, and I
refer a lot of my patients to you, Yeah, thanks
about acne and a patire and whatever, and they all
say what a great face it is and what an
(05:07):
awesome area. You must be super proud to have done
that on your own.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I am incredibly proud of what we have achieved with
Skin Partners, but I did not do that on my own.
It always takes a village, and I think the credit
really goes to the people around me. My ex husband
who really supported me through, and my children the time
that I have sacrificed not being with them, not being
a mom, by being a doctor and essentially a practice owner,
(05:34):
and my incredible staff. I think without them, there will
be no Skin Partners. And I think that's me. I
can't function on my own. I'm the kind of person
who is quite vulnerable and I always need people around
me to support me.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So it is a great space. I'm incredibly proud of that.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I had a great team of architects, interior designer and
a project manager as well who found me the space,
and I think a lot of it was just part
of me liking to be in control, yeah, and being
a perfectionist, which is not necessarily a good quality. But
I had in my mind an idea of how I
want my color scheme to be and the space that
(06:11):
I wanted, which you know, my brief to the architect was,
I don't want the space to look medical. I don't
want it to look sterile. I want patients to open
the door and immediately feel this sense of calm. So
I want the color scheme to be stage almost like
the Australian outdoors, and there's a recovery space for laser
patients they come in, there's music, but it's also not
(06:34):
a cosmetic spa. So I think dermatology for me should
be a blend of medicine and also it's creativity and
its art when it comes to the skin. So I
think the vision I have for my practice has been
realized by an amazing group of people. But it's certainly
not just a solo effort. I can never take that
credit for myself.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Leading into COVID, and I mean, I am going to
ask some personal questions, so tell me anything ask But
what I'm interested in with the podcast is you're now
a single mum had a marriage breakdown. Is how you
look after yourself, how you manage running a business, having staff,
(07:15):
having two boys and they're at that age where they're
super busy, lots of sport.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I'm assuming your family are still in Melbourne.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
My parents live in Malaysia actually, so my ex husband
and I have no family in Queensland. I do have
some extended family in Melbourne, thank goodness. My ex husband
and I are very amicable, which is unusual I know
for divorced couples. But we essentially separate it because we've
become very different people and I think that's life, and
(07:46):
we decided that it was in our best interests and
for the children to remain good friends, amicable.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
We did not fall out. We still know.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
We talk to each other, We love and we benter
and that's fantastic. So we support each other through the
arrangements with the children. It is incredibly hard and I
can't say I'm still you know, I'm still struggle with
the balance of it all, and I do think I
do a lot with trying to be a clinician, trying
to be a mother, which is another full time job,
(08:15):
trying to be a business woman, trying to be a friend,
trying to have me time. But I think being a mom,
I'm not a great full time mom. I struggle with that.
I did not like breastfeeding. I struggle with the new
one face because I felt out of my depth, out
of control. And now with the separation, when I see
(08:38):
the children, I feel like I'm enjoying it a lot more.
I love them to bits. There's nothing I wouldn't do
for them. But I think I'm a much better part
time mom because I feel that I can concentrate on them.
And I have this way of thinking now. And I
actually read this in a Brene Brown book that I'm
reading at the moment called Atlas of the Heart. So
it talks about disappointment and how not to have expectations,
(09:00):
and this is exactly what I've been doing, so I
couldn't verbalize it like she did really.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well in the book.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Now, when I have the kids on weekends, on the
days that I have them, I'll have no expectations of
doing anything for myself. It's all about them. Then I
won't be disappointed, I won't be frustrated if I don't
achieve anything. And that's okay. But when I don't have them.
That's when I can have expectations of trying to complete
(09:25):
a talk that I'm doing, or trying to complete a
media interview, or have meetings or have mere time. So
I think it's just having that in my mind about
managing expectations of what I can and cannot do when
I have the children. Yep, just setting boundaries for myself
just so I know that thing I should get burnt out.
I get burnt out, and you know I got so
(09:45):
burnt out. I think it was two years ago, towards
the end of the year. I get periods in the
year when I feel incredibly burnt out, when things get
really busy in the practice, and you know, life is
such that we don't live in a little bold Sometimes
pooh hits the fan, so you know, live.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Is a Pooh show sometimes.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
So I think for someone like myself, whom I always
strive to be a perfectionist, I think that's not a
good thing. And in the last few years, I've embraced
this concept of the eighty five percent rules. So the
eighty five percent rule was actually developed for elite sporting
professionals so that you're not needing to perform at one
hundred percent capacity, so you don't burn out that you're
(10:29):
performing at eighty five percent, so there's a bit of
room for you to have some relaxation, mindset, some fuel, energy,
some reserve. And I think that's really worked well for me.
I don't need to give everything one hundred percent. Eighty
five percent is enough, and that's giving myself permission to fail.
And that's okay because if you f up, that's okay.
(10:52):
And if I don't give myself permission for that, that
is just setting too high a bar. That's unachievable. It
is unachievable. And yeah, you start beating yourself up, exactly.
And I used to beat myself up over little things like, oh,
I've fumbled on stage, I've said that word wrong. I
rehearsed this sentence a hundred times. And but you know what,
that's okay because if I make a mistake, nobody else
(11:14):
is going to judge me. If they want to, it's okay,
that's fine. Or these days, I listen to lots of
podcasts and Mel Robbins has got this theory called the
let them theory, right, let them, it's okay. I can't
control what they say about me. If they don't like me,
that's okay, that is okay, that is okay.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And you know, when I was.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
A junior consultant, I used to take things personally. We
can't control feedback from people, we can't control what Google
reviews are, and you know, it's hard to think about, oh,
why does this person not like me when I tried
my best for them, but ultimately not everyone's going to
like me.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And I've learned to accept that it's okay.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And see their perception of sometimes, you know, when people
come into a clinic, their perception of what they want
and reality actually two separate things. They've done all this
Google research, They've looked at Instagram, they've looked at Facebook, whatever,
you know, TikTok, and that's what they think is correct.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
When you actually tell them the truth, they don't like
hearing it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So then they come back and they might put a
not so nice comment on Google and there's nothing you
can do. And like my Robin says, you just got
to let them because they're miserable people.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Usually yeah, exactly, yeah, you know, and unfortunately there's just
the way life is hard not to take things personally.
But I've learned to accept that.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I will be hurt and I will question why this
has happened, and if it's something wrong I've done or
something I can improve on, great, But sometimes.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's just people being people.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
They could be unreasonable, unrealistic expectations, or they're just one
of those people who will never be happy no matter
how they go, and I just have to accept it.
And now I've just learned I'm just going to ignore
the noise around me and just let them it's okay.
It's easier said than done, though, because that's to tell myself,
Oh my god, I just I've read some really hurtful
things that's been said about me by excident. I was
(13:06):
just googling myself because I was searching for an article
I've written. I oh, what is this in the Reddit
forum that's being said about me? They were very hurtful
comments that I would not say of anyone else. But
it's you know, I don't participate in forums like that
because it's just not my style. So I think it's
very easy to get bogged down by the noise around
us because we can't control what's on the Internet and
(13:27):
what's being said. And I think in my practice, what
I've learned to do is I'm quite happy to see
people who like me.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And who would come back. And a lot of my
work is the word of mouth.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So a lot of my patients have got family friends,
people that they word of mouth refer, and that's great.
I do find it hard when I get people saying, oh,
I've come to you because I've read a Google review
about you, or I've seen your stuff on social media,
And I find that a bit harder because sometimes the
persona that they see and the expectations they have, as
(13:59):
you might know, it's very different. They have a lot
higher expectations, and I'm not necessarily the persona that they
imagine me to be as a clinician, because.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
It's all virtual.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Absolutely, so I think you know, in clinic, I like
the fact that a lot of my patients get along
with me. I get along with them. If they don't
like me, they don't come back, and I'm okay with that.
You're better off seeing someone you like, you can get
along with and have that rapport, and if you like me,
you refer other people like minded who are like you,
who like me, and accept the way that this professional
(14:31):
relationship is going to work. So I think now I
just have that mindset and I've just accepted, as I'm
getting older too.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
That that's just life and it's okay.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
We can't satisfy everyone, and if we want to be happy,
we just have to ignore the noise around us.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
That is so true.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And you know what's interesting is I mean, I've my
business has grown through word of mouth.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
That's perfectly smooth.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
What's interesting is since the TGA rulings and we've taken
off all the different words, we can say, all the
before and afters. I had no continue patients since end
of July last year, before Christmas. Now that's a lot
for one person. At the end, I was pretty cooked.
(15:15):
By the end of the year, no one came because
of social media. They all came through word of mouth.
And I have to say they are much nicer clients
because they've been referred by people that are already coming
to the clinic, that have been attracted to me because
the type of person and.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Practitioner I am.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So you know, it's I think social media to some
degree initially was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I think it is also hard double edged thought.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, I use social media for advocacy and education, so
I don't advertise any of my way and if you
look at my social media, they are very very few
before after photos because that's just not me. It's okay
if someone else wants to do it, but that's just
not me, because for me, it's about educating. It's about
having a voice, an educated voice that people can listen
(16:05):
to and who can lean on and go all right, Okay,
she's a dermatologist.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
She probably knows what she's doing.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
And I don't necessarily need you to come and see me,
but just trust that a dermatologist is someone who can
help you better than someone else who's promoting some product
because they're getting paid, but has no special, credible expertise
or experience. So for me, yeah, social media is a
way to just have a presence to educate and connect
(16:34):
with people, but I don't use it to get work.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Did you train in Melbourne or did you train in Malaysia?
In Melbourne?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So I did medical school in Auckland and I followed
my then boyfriend to Wellington for a year and then
I got a little bit bored.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh I need to be in a bigger city.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I need a little bit more challenged because I'm constantly
needing to be stimulated. So I moved to Melbourne, and
the first few weeks of being Melbourne, I just thought,
this is going to be my home forever.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And I love New Zealand. It's great.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
But I also found New Zealand quite insular and the
more different you are, the more difficult it was for
people to accept you. But when I was in Melbourne
is the more different you are, the easier it is,
and the more interesting you are people who accept you.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And I loved that concept because I'm a big city girl.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I grew up in kl And, so I love the
idea of being different, being with different people, networking. I'm
very social, I'm an extrod. So Melbourne was my than
spiritual home and I thought that in New Zealand, I
had wanted to be a physician, but then I got
quite burnt out working at the hospital with on calls
(17:42):
and night shifts.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And different things.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And I had a dermatologist mentor who took me on
because I said, I actually quite liked the idea of dermatology,
but I didn't know very much about it because in
medical school you get one or two weeks of lectures
and all they teach you is a little bit about
exama a libit of psoriasis. That's it, and you're supposed
to figure out if you liked it. And then you know,
as you get older, you just think, you know, it's
(18:05):
just a career. I need work life balance. I need
something that interests me, that can sustain my stimulation. And
because I'm such an extra it, I just like meeting people,
talking to people. So I thought I'll get dermatology to go.
So when I was in Melbourne, I also met another
mentor who was Professor Rod Sinclair, who's the alopecia expert,
and he said to me, I remember our first meeting.
(18:26):
He's like, oh, I will only take you on if
you do a PhD with me. And I was young,
and Naima thought, yeah, sure. I didn't beat an eyelid
and I didn't know what I was getting myself into.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I was like, oh my god. So I agreed to
do it.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And it was a genetic study looking at the genetic
basis of fema pattern helos and all of a sudden
I was broke and there was uncertainty about my future.
Why am I doing this for three years not getting
paid and there's no guarantee I'm going to get into dermatology,
but I was determined to finish what. Every time I
(19:00):
start something, I'm de dermined to finish it.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm just that kind of person.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
The first year I called the throwaway year, where none
of the experiments worked.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I'm a doctor, I'm not a scientist.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But I was then having to pipet things, having to
sterilize things, and doing all these experiments like, oh my god,
this is completely out of my depth. But I was
very organized because I started writing the first chapter of
my thesis in my first year, which was basically just
literature reviews. Was fine to do, and then things fell together.
(19:32):
It was there were a lot of challenges, but luckily
that all panned out.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
The hard work paid off.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I got into dermatology the last year of my PhD,
and then when I started first year of dermatology training
in Melbourne, I set for the first I think it
was the pharmacology exams in the first year, and I
submitted my PhD thesis that in the same year, got
married the same year, and then just yeah, went through that.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So do you think you got ADHD? Actually, you know
what I think I do.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I'm self diagnosed and I never these days because there's
so much more awareness for ADHD.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I reckon I do have ADHD.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I've come to the realization in the last year or two,
and I keep saying this to some of my friends.
I'm constantly driven. I constantly need to find something to do.
I don't like to be bored. But you do finish things.
I do finish things. I always do. I always do.
If I choose to start something, I will only choose
to start it if I can finish something. But these days,
(20:32):
I find life. I go to a conference, if that
talk does not capture me in the first ten to
twenty seconds, I just drift off.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I'll just start looking at my phone.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
My concentration span has got shorter and shorter and shorter
over the last few years, and I just find it
hard to relax. Sometimes it's just what I'm working on.
So I do think I've ADHD. But I don't think
I'm at the stage where I need to see someone
to get help or.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Be medicated, because I think I'm managing okay for now.
H No.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I've also listened to a Brene Brown book that I
read as well. You know, I mentioned how I hate
being bored I can't relax, but you know, when I'm
so busy these days, being bored is a privilege.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Absolutely. Well, they say that's when you get your best ideas.
It's when you're exactly Yeah, it feels imagination. That's what
I'm teaching my children.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I'm trying to do a little bit of meditation, but
rather than calling it meditation, because the kids now do
meditation at school, so good.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
So when I have the children and I'll just before
you know, read a book or before we go to bed,
and so now we're just going to sit for five
minutes and do nothing. And I think all of us
should be doing that because it's just constant, go, go,
go it is and it's okay to be bod give
yourself a mission to be bored, because I think really
it's a it's a privilege to be able to do
that when we're constantly in such a challenging, demanding world.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Coming into Brisbane yesterday, I was sound at a conference
and I met this fabulous nurse whose African American heritage.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Her name's Agnes and just fabulous and.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
She's going to come on the podcast to talk about,
you know, women of color in nursing. Do you feel
having your Asian heritage in Melbourne probably didn't make any
difference because everyone is just so, you know, and just fabulous.
Did it make a difference here in Brisbane?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Do you think? I'm gonna say very suchly, but not
that much.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I felt that such a Asian racism a lot more
when I was in medical school in New Zealand. We
don't do these things here in New Zealand, but I
know there could still be some racism in areas outside
of Melbourne, but in Queensland where we may still be
a little bit lagging behind, so to speak. But I
(22:47):
haven't felt that myself because to be honest, I'm quite
westernice I'm a banana.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
No, hang on, am I a banana? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Chat with her my friend was actually a Caucasian and
he talks about him being the other.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yes, I'm an attic because I am yellow on the
outside and I'm wide on the inside because I'm not
super Asian and a lot of my friends are not typical.
I don't even want the right word to say is
without offending anyone. But a lot of my friends are
very westernized yeah as well, and I do have some
Asian friends who are strong on the Asian heritage, and
that's okay.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
But I think because.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I am where I am in my career, and I'm
fortunate to be where i am in my career, where
I think I've done a lot to be at this
stage in life where people sort of know me, they
know what I do, they respect what I do. So
I think I don't feel it as much.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Done the hard yards.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's been tough, but you know, I've worked. You know,
some people get lucky. I never get lucky. I always
have to work very hard to get where I am,
and I think I will always appreciate the hard yards
that I've done because I know I've worked incredibly hard
to get where I am.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But again, it's not a solo effort. It's a village
to do that. And do you think when you were
brought up?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Because Altally Vertek has been on numerous times on the
potty here like she's our resident plastic surgent, and you
know she has spoken about the pressure she felt.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Being Asian from her family. Did you feel that.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
My parents, who are still in Malaysia, they come from
very traditional families. They are still of a very traditional
mindset now in their seventies and I can never change them.
And that's okay, that's fine, But yeah, interesting because my
parents have never pressured me to do medicine. Nothing. My
parents never pressured me to do anything, and they were
just proud of what I did. And even my paternal grandparents,
(24:43):
who were the traditional ones who really push for son
sun song in the family, that never happened. There was
no pressure from them for me to excel. But because
I saw all of that happening, I still remember vividly.
But my maternal grandmother, who looked after my sister and
I and who lived with us in the same household
(25:04):
growing up, I remember her saying to me, this is
what your other grandparents think of not having a son,
and so you have to work hard and prove to
them that girls can do the same thing. So I
always remember that. But I think a lot of the
pressure came from me to succeed. So that's why I
worked really hard. But doing medicine was not my first choice.
(25:25):
I didn't know what I wanted to do. I had
the grades, and I thought, oh, growing up, I was
just you know, all I ever knew was that my
dad was like the chief finance director of three AM,
which is a multinational American company in Malaysia, and he
was loyal to the company. He climbed the corporate ladder
for years and before I was born, he was working
(25:46):
with them to the day he retired, when I was
already married, he was still with them. So that loyalty
I learned that growing up, and also the work ethic.
Work hard, and all I ever knew was I wanted
to be in corporate I wanted to wear a suit
to work. I wanted to business cards, I could facts,
(26:07):
I would.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Have a secretary. They went so and so this office.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Just that idea of the corporate world intrigued me because
it was all I knew. And my mum was in
the corporate world too, So doing medicine was almost like
a default because I didn't know what to do. There
was no pressure to do it, but I just did
it and I enjoyed it. And I'm very fortunate to
still be in the career because a lot of doctors
get burnt out, yeah, and they leave the profession they
(26:33):
do something completely different. But I've been very fortunate that
I found my niche in dermatology and I love what
I do. There's a lot of hard work involved. It
wasn't luck at all. It was just a lot of
hard work.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know, I've been too different, you know, damn conferences,
and I have to say, I think dermatology is up
there with some of the hardest specialties. And this is
what people don't realize, all the obscure skin conditions that
the skin impacts, or everything impacts the skin, or vice versa.
(27:08):
It is so complex, and yet people think it is
just this really basic special and it is not.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
It is.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah, it is is a really good point because there
are you know, at least a few thousand different skin
conditions that we see and treat. And often I find
that offensive. I suppose I shouldn't blame anyone, but you know,
people come to see us and they go, oh, that
dermatology has only looked at us for two seconds and
didn't even touch my skin or didn't do this, and
(27:38):
they make judgments on our clinical recommendations or diagnoses. But
in reality, in dermatology, we trained so hard. We trained
for at least so basically med school is six years
and then you do your residency and I basically studied
for thirteen or fourteen years to.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Be where I am.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Six years of medical school, I did three years of PhD,
four years of dermatology training, another extra year of alopecia
subspecialty training to get to my level. Other dorms do
the same thing or different pathways. We do all of
that in our specialty training. So I can look at
someone even when I call them up from the waiting
room they're walking towards yeah exactly, I know exactly what
(28:16):
they have, or that talking in the consult is really
just sing fluff. Yeah, I don't need all the extra information,
but I'll sit down and talk to you create that rapport.
But in my mind, I already know what you're here for.
And as a dermatologist, we're trained in pattern recognition. There
are a lot of these complex conditions common uncommon. If
we look at you for a few seconds and we
(28:37):
don't know what it is, that's when we need to
do a biopsy, or that's when we really need to
get additional information, or that's so we need to refer
you on to other dermatologies or other specialties to get
an opinion on things. So they are straightforward conditions. There
are harder conditions. I'm not saying like you know we
know everything because we don't. But yes, demotology is very complex,
but also opens up these whole can of worms about
(28:58):
social media and googling. And then you get people who
want everything natural or they don't trust what you say,
but they want to do everything without medications. That's not
science based, it's pseudoscience. So there's a lot of these
to contend with. And I think that's the challenge of
being a doctor in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
But it's not just this year. It's been for the
past few years.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
And I think that's going to change a little bit more,
but hopefully with AI, that's going to change the way
we treat things. It's going to be a companion to
our specialty. It already is a companion. It should not
be replacing dermatologists because you need that human factor. You
need a human to have that final decision, that ultimate
decision on clinical judgment and treatment. But we do need
(29:41):
to accept that medicine has changed and we need to
embrace technology. And I think for dermatology we are right
visible at the front line because the skin's the biggest
organ Like you say, you don't get social media influences
who are cardiology social media influences or neuphrology, social media influence.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
They're all skin influences. And because it's so.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Accessible and it's just such an industry, there's a huge
market in skin care and hair care. So yeah, that's
what we're it's you know, it's an interesting conversation that
we could talk about, and I'm sure it's going to
keep changing in the next few years. Post Covid, I
was doing tele health for particularly acne roseatua. But what
(30:26):
I was finding was everyone's skin was so inflamed. Now
it was because they were listening to all these influences
and buying this product and that product, and I'll give
this one a bit of a whirl and I'll try this,
and this didn't work, so and I had to take
(30:47):
I can't tell how many people right back.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right back to the basics. Go get geloch, per se
qv whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
If you want to do, do nothing other than sunscreen
for your skin.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Nothing. Let it settle down.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And I was blown away by some of the active
and greed separated some of these products.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, I think Covid had a lot to answer
for because it was when you know, the industry just
went crazy. It was good in that it provided a
platform for educating people about skin minimalism, you need to
use less, you need to not have all these things.
You know, people were looking more into active ingredients and
they understood more about what active ingredients did rather than
(31:28):
brand shopping. But it also was bad in that, like
you say, they were just buying things it was exciting,
or they just didn't know what to use because it.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Couldn't get proper advice.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
It was all And that was a rise of social
media influences throughout COVID. We saw that just when exponential
and e commerce platforms selling chemical peeps to use at
home skin care products, everything. So I think COVID had
a lot to answer for. It was basically the boom
of the social media industry, and social media influencing became
(32:04):
a career.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And a very well paying career. I'm ad.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yes, my prediction is in the next few years, social
media influencing will be obsolete. That's my prediction because AI
can generate same content a lot cheaper. Yeah, yeah, that's
my prediction. I may be wrong, but yeah, watch this space.
Let's see.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I couldn't agree with you more, I hope so because
some of them I just listen to them and just go,
oh my girl.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I know there's some who are fantastic, who are there
to educate and who would say I'm not an expert,
but this is my experience. If you need help, see
your dematories. But there are some who will not say that.
And you know, in the last one two years, we've
seen twin skincare influencing. I think it's irresponsible on the
marketing side of brands and e commerce platforms who do that,
(32:56):
where they're exploiting these young ones because they're also probably
cheaper to use than adult social media influences. They can
spook these products and they see these whole untapped upon
market for young ones to use retinal glycolic acids and
whatnot when they don't need to. And I've done so
many media interviews about that. Got these young ones don't
even use sunscreens. Why bother using a retinal if.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
You're not going to use a sunscreen?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, yeah, the basics are not even there. It's just
and the recent ten lines trend where they want to
look like they've had a tan at the beach.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I know, that's nuts. That one. What is happening. I
can't believe in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
As a dermatologist, we have to bring back what happened
in the nineteen eighties, nineteen sixties, seventies where people were
getting sunburns and seeing all these skin cancers. But you know,
skin cancers may be on the rise again in the
next five to ten years because of this.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I was at like I was what nineteen seventy born
out in the sun, but I wasn't a huge some
of it because I would burn so badly with my
skin toping.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I have so many skin cancers now, yeah, so many.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I've had a massive big one cut off, constantly doing
e fidex on my face, like it is a a
problem for me coming growing up at a farm in Queensland.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, But I think, you know, unfortunately the
young ones don't realize because to them, I don't have
to think about skin cancers until I'm how old. I
think the messaging is so important sometimes I just say
to them, now, you're gonna get wrinkles when you're thirty. Oh,
so you have to twist the messaging so it makes
it more appealing for them. But still it is a
(34:31):
big problem. And I don't know if public health messaging
is sexy enough to combat this problem because it all
comes back to social media.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
There's no regulation.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Anyone can see anything, and all of a sudden, it's
just explodes because it looks cool, because it's a trend.
But remember that trends come and go. It's not here
to stay.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
But I do worry about the tanning industry, as in
fake ten, with the chemicals that have been used full
body people going every week. I mean, I got on
the bandwagon. That's not my whole dematology business stuff. You know,
twenty years ago I set up a spray tan business.
Nevere poop pooed me. That's how I made money and
(35:11):
then sold the business. But that has been inhaled and
it's full body tanning. You've got to wonder about the
chemicals that are in that. If down the track, we're
going to have major issues with tannuts.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, I think the education about you know, love the
skin you're in. There's nothing wrong with being really fair.
You're still beautiful. There's nothing wrong with the skin that
you're in. Really like, why do you need to look
ten to make you feel like you're beautiful? What is
it so you feel like you're in the French with
vieria what. I don't know what the attraction is.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I think people feel, especially Aussie's, it's always been that,
you know, healthy, son loving, you know, beechy sort of thing,
whereas isn't funny. I look at that, you know, the
red hair, the pale skin, I think, oh my god,
it's divine.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's like the Koreans and the China,
they're all I know. My mom was an umbrella woman
and I was very embarrassed about it growing up because.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
My mom just put that umbrella away.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Should be like the only women Asian woman with the
umbrella and the visor.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And now I'm becoming like her.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Okay, I'm getting my pigmented flat separate keratosis, my pigmentation.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I don't want pigmentation.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I think Asians are so much better at sun protection
than some fairer skin Caucasians are because everyone's so paranoid
about pigmentation. Absolutely, everyone wants white skin because you know,
it's glorified. But yeah, in Australia maybe because it's such
a lifestyle thing. It's seen as healthy when you've got
bronze skin. Healthy healthier skin is when you're attend but
(36:47):
it's actually not. Sun protection really should be the Australian lifestyle. Absolutely,
you know, it should be embraced as that, but I
think there's also not enough awareness. And when I first
came to Brisbane, I was shocked that my kids go
to a very central school in an area where the
parents are educated to a bit more affluent, but the
school had no sun Smart policy.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I was going to get my kids out of the.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
School, but then I thought I'll work with the principal
and the school to get them into the sun Smart policy.
I guess I do a lot of media. We got
Channel nine years coverage and I got our dermatology college
involved in media releases, the Cancer Council and different things.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
But I was shocked that it was nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And the uptake of the sun Smart policy in Queensland
schools is apparently really low. And because it's not compulsory,
so I thought it capulsary, it's it's very much dependent
on who runs the school and what motivation they have
to adopt the policy is not compulsory. Yeah, so that
was shocking to me. And having lived in Melbourne and
(37:45):
Canberra and no people in Sydney, Melbourne and canber.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
People are great. You don't have to remind them.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
The parents are slip slopping sunscreens, hats kids have, you know,
you see them doing that on the on the weekends.
But here, I can walk in Paddington in central Brisbane
on a weekend at midday and see parents having babies
on the harness. Babies have no hats to kIPS up squinting.
The grandparents have no hats and it breaks my heart.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
In a pram and they've got a little pants or
something over there.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Exactly, there's only so much you can do. And I
know you are drives with the city. It see redheads
people going up for lunch squinting, no sunglasses, no hats, nothing,
and I bet they've got no sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
So it's a huge problem.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And I don't know what we can do about it
because there's only so much. We're all adults, we're all
grown ups. There needs to be some sense of responsibility
that everyone needs to take for themselves because there's only
so much public health messaging and so much we can do.
I get patients to come to me and there's sunburned.
I go, okay, you're here for a skin shirt and
your sunburned, And then they say to me, but that's
(38:50):
why we come to see that's what you're here for
to tell me I have no skin cancers.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Is the awareness is just not quite there because we
say to people when we're treating for pigmentation or laces
or whatever, there's no point in treating.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And if they're not saying exactly what is the because
it's waste of money.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, it's almost like there's this sense of denial and
a lot of people then because a lot of skincnsers
don't kill you, therefore I'll be okay. And now this
whole thing about you know, great, they're melanoma treatments that
prolonged survival. You can cure melanomas. We don't have to
worry anymore. But actually no, because these melanoma treatments can
make you feel very very sick, very unwell, very unwell,
(39:32):
and there's no quality of life for some of my patients.
And you need to keep having these six monthly, twelve
monthly pet scans and different things. No, you don't just
take a drug and your life goes back to normal.
So whilst we have revolutionalized the treatments for melanoma and
it's life changing. But there's also this misconception that is
(39:53):
fooling people to think I'll be okay if I get
sunbones for getting melanoma, because I've got this there, Yeah,
life changing treatment without realizing hang on a sack. No,
it's not just taking antibiotics for a week and you
be your kay. They don't understand the implications of these
medicines either.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Really good friend of ours just by chance found out
he had a spot on his lung post melanoma being
removed from his arm. It was an X ray having
something else done and they just happened to catch the
bottom of the lung and they saw the tiny little
mark on it. He's done immunotherapy. He describes himself as
feeling like the tin man without the needing the oil,
(40:31):
because that's the impact. It saved his life and it's
fabulous and he' he would be dead by now if
it hadn't have been picked up. But his joints, he
feels like an old It feels like the tin man
without the oil. Yeah, And I thought, wow, it was
such a great description of how he's Straight away I
(40:53):
could see exactly how he's feeling.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Absolutely, that's how a lot of my melanoma patients who
have gone through immiotherapy, melanoma's gone for a long time.
That's exactly what they describe.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yeah, terrible, and that neuropathy and terrible.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, exactly. Wells you know it's all great stuff, but
you pay your price for it too. I couldn't agree
with you more.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
And I just think probably if there's any takeaway from today,
where your sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yes, where your sunscreen, because you're gonna look ten years
older than you are.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Don't listen to all the influences because really don't know
shit about all the skin care products. Get good advice,
don't get sunburned. Be kind to yourself. Eighty five percent
is okay.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, you don't have to be one hundred percent.
You don't have to be a perfectionist. And it's okay
to be bored. Give yourself permission to be bored.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And the people you're writing awful things about online is
a real person at the end of that, and maybe
show a bit of kindness. If you're writing awful things
on Facebook and being an online cowboy, it's doesn't help anyone,
and I'm probably better. It doesn't make you feel great either.
Absolutely and I, for one, don't. I don't write bad
review anyone.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
I just communicate with the business directly and say I
think this is what you could improve on because I
know how it impacts people, and obvious you've got to
be kind.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
I actually got to be kind.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah, you know, it's in this society where there's so
much challenges stress. Nobody needs anything else to push them
to the edge, and we know it does. Yes, So
if we don't look after ourselves, if we let others
know that we're not putting ourselves first, no one else
is going to put you first. And that's the fact
(42:36):
that absolutely, yeah, I need to come first.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yes, you do. And you've done so much work and
help so many people. Now sometimes you look after yourself.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
So watch me.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Hopefully in the next year or two, I can find
that balance a little bit more. Is not perfect yet.
I don't think I have a you know, find that
perfect balance. But I think little wins. I'll take little wins.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And I think if we acknowledge it and work towards it,
we're getting somewhere.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah. Yeah, we'll all help each other. It's a village
on our own.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
No, absolutely not, Thank you so much. For coming in.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Thank you for having me impression unscripted, very candid, Love it.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Thanks Leona, Thanks Bag
Apoge Production.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hi. My name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm grateful for the person that I had the opportunity
to be, so.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I hit it and parked it for Nelly four years.
We always have free will, We always get to choose.
We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi everybody, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness
for Nurses Today. I have the fabulous doctor Leoni Yip,
who is a dermatologist here in Brisbane. We have literally
been pinpals and haven't been able to catch up for
probably the last six years. I met her through another
very good friend of mine, Katie, who did it a
(00:50):
sort of like online introduction as they'd worked together down
in Melbourne. So thank you for taking the time to
come and have a chat.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you for having that.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Is so lovely to meet you finally after five or
six years texting social media messages and you've been virtual
until right now, right now.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
It's crazy, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, you moved up from Brisbane from Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Sorry how long ago?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Actually we moved from with my ex husband and my children.
We moved from Melbourne to Canberra for his job that
didn't really work out. So we were there for five
to six years, and unfortunately went through a really difficult
time with how his job turned out, and we ended
up in Brisbane surrendipitously because there was an offer here
and I had only ever been to Brisbane once before
(01:38):
that I knew nothing about Brisbane, and so we took
the chance and it's worked out quite well. The kids
love it, and this is now my home. I used
to be resentful that we had left Melbourne, and I
think I held onto that resentment when I was in
Canberra because it took a while to set up my
network of friends, patients and just to feel like I belonged.
(01:58):
It was a lot easier to do that in Brisbane.
And now you know, I still miss Melbourne. It's always
my spiritual home. I'm not resentful anymore. So Brisbane is
now the place for me.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Did you find it easier to make connections and networks
here in Brisbane or you already knew people up here.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It was an interesting time because COVID happened.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So we moved here in June twenty nineteen, I think,
and it was re establishing myself in a new city,
and by that stage I was already out for quite
a few years. So I was a senior dematologist and
coming to a new city where no one knew me,
including GPS patients. And there were some quiet, hurtful commands
(02:40):
being made when I was establishing myself here, like why
are you so easy to get into? My dematologies has
always booked up for six months? And you know, writing
letters back I remember to GPS and then one called
me and said she didn't like the way I was writing.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
My letters backter.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I've been writing the letters the way I've had for
the last few years and had no issues. So just
teething issues in a new city, people trying to suss
me out. I'm trying to suss the system out. And yeah,
it took me a while to find myself. But definitely
people the Cambarans are great people, don't get me wrong.
But it's just such a transient city that it was
(03:17):
hard to establish networks and I felt very lonely, and
having my second child, Elliott there he was born there,
I was very much still resentful that we had left
Melbourne because my networks were there and I felt alone.
But in Brisbane, the kids were a little bit bigger,
and I just felt that people were warming. It was
easier to have that network. And then COVID happened, and
(03:39):
then COVID happened, and that was how I met you texting.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah. Yes. It was also very testing.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Time for us because we had purchased a house and
with the move it was lack of work and financially
we had a mortgage to pay, having to homeschool the children.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It was all incredibly stressful.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But after that happened, it was good that because in
my line of work as a dematologist, I do medical
dermatology and surgical dematology, so we could still do the
bare minimum to help patients with excimil batsisis or skin cancers.
So I had that outlet where I could go to
work and see people and patients coming in who felt lonely,
(04:21):
they were sad with the situation.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And just having that contact with people really worked.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It was stressful, we got through it, and I think now,
few years down the track, I am happy.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I won't say it's problem free. It never is.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
There's always challenges. I hate to use the word stress,
but there's always stress that we have to navigate. But yeah,
I think I'm in a good place at.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
The moment after COVID you set up your own practice
at West End, which is a bit fabulous, and I
refer a lot of my patients to you, Yeah, thanks
about acne and a patire and whatever, and they all
say what a great face it is and what an
(05:07):
awesome area. You must be super proud to have done
that on your own.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I am incredibly proud of what we have achieved with
Skin Partners, but I did not do that on my own.
It always takes a village, and I think the credit
really goes to the people around me. My ex husband
who really supported me through, and my children the time
that I have sacrificed not being with them, not being
a mom, by being a doctor and essentially a practice owner,
(05:34):
and my incredible staff. I think without them, there will
be no Skin Partners. And I think that's me. I
can't function on my own. I'm the kind of person
who is quite vulnerable and I always need people around
me to support me.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So it is a great space. I'm incredibly proud of that.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I had a great team of architects, interior designer and
a project manager as well who found me the space,
and I think a lot of it was just part
of me liking to be in control, yeah, and being
a perfectionist, which is not necessarily a good quality. But
I had in my mind an idea of how I
want my color scheme to be and the space that
(06:11):
I wanted, which you know, my brief to the architect was,
I don't want the space to look medical. I don't
want it to look sterile. I want patients to open
the door and immediately feel this sense of calm. So
I want the color scheme to be stage almost like
the Australian outdoors, and there's a recovery space for laser
patients they come in, there's music, but it's also not
(06:34):
a cosmetic spa. So I think dermatology for me should
be a blend of medicine and also it's creativity and
its art when it comes to the skin. So I
think the vision I have for my practice has been
realized by an amazing group of people. But it's certainly
not just a solo effort. I can never take that
credit for myself.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Leading into COVID, and I mean, I am going to
ask some personal questions, so tell me anything ask But
what I'm interested in with the podcast is you're now
a single mum had a marriage breakdown. Is how you
look after yourself, how you manage running a business, having staff,
(07:15):
having two boys and they're at that age where they're
super busy, lots of sport.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I'm assuming your family are still in Melbourne.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
My parents live in Malaysia actually, so my ex husband
and I have no family in Queensland. I do have
some extended family in Melbourne, thank goodness. My ex husband
and I are very amicable, which is unusual I know
for divorced couples. But we essentially separate it because we've
become very different people and I think that's life, and
(07:46):
we decided that it was in our best interests and
for the children to remain good friends, amicable.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
We did not fall out. We still know.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
We talk to each other, We love and we benter
and that's fantastic. So we support each other through the
arrangements with the children. It is incredibly hard and I
can't say I'm still you know, I'm still struggle with
the balance of it all, and I do think I
do a lot with trying to be a clinician, trying
to be a mother, which is another full time job,
(08:15):
trying to be a business woman, trying to be a friend,
trying to have me time. But I think being a mom,
I'm not a great full time mom. I struggle with that.
I did not like breastfeeding. I struggle with the new
one face because I felt out of my depth, out
of control. And now with the separation, when I see
(08:38):
the children, I feel like I'm enjoying it a lot more.
I love them to bits. There's nothing I wouldn't do
for them. But I think I'm a much better part
time mom because I feel that I can concentrate on them.
And I have this way of thinking now. And I
actually read this in a Brene Brown book that I'm
reading at the moment called Atlas of the Heart. So
it talks about disappointment and how not to have expectations,
(09:00):
and this is exactly what I've been doing, so I
couldn't verbalize it like she did really.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well in the book.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Now, when I have the kids on weekends, on the
days that I have them, I'll have no expectations of
doing anything for myself. It's all about them. Then I
won't be disappointed, I won't be frustrated if I don't
achieve anything. And that's okay. But when I don't have them.
That's when I can have expectations of trying to complete
(09:25):
a talk that I'm doing, or trying to complete a
media interview, or have meetings or have mere time. So
I think it's just having that in my mind about
managing expectations of what I can and cannot do when
I have the children. Yep, just setting boundaries for myself
just so I know that thing I should get burnt out.
I get burnt out, and you know I got so
(09:45):
burnt out. I think it was two years ago, towards
the end of the year. I get periods in the
year when I feel incredibly burnt out, when things get
really busy in the practice, and you know, life is
such that we don't live in a little bold Sometimes
pooh hits the fan, so you know, live.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Is a Pooh show sometimes.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
So I think for someone like myself, whom I always
strive to be a perfectionist, I think that's not a
good thing. And in the last few years, I've embraced
this concept of the eighty five percent rules. So the
eighty five percent rule was actually developed for elite sporting
professionals so that you're not needing to perform at one
hundred percent capacity, so you don't burn out that you're
(10:29):
performing at eighty five percent, so there's a bit of
room for you to have some relaxation, mindset, some fuel, energy,
some reserve. And I think that's really worked well for me.
I don't need to give everything one hundred percent. Eighty
five percent is enough, and that's giving myself permission to fail.
And that's okay because if you f up, that's okay.
(10:52):
And if I don't give myself permission for that, that
is just setting too high a bar. That's unachievable. It
is unachievable. And yeah, you start beating yourself up, exactly.
And I used to beat myself up over little things like, oh,
I've fumbled on stage, I've said that word wrong. I
rehearsed this sentence a hundred times. And but you know what,
that's okay because if I make a mistake, nobody else
(11:14):
is going to judge me. If they want to, it's okay,
that's fine. Or these days, I listen to lots of
podcasts and Mel Robbins has got this theory called the
let them theory, right, let them, it's okay. I can't
control what they say about me. If they don't like me,
that's okay, that is okay, that is okay.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And you know, when I was.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
A junior consultant, I used to take things personally. We
can't control feedback from people, we can't control what Google
reviews are, and you know, it's hard to think about, oh,
why does this person not like me when I tried
my best for them, but ultimately not everyone's going to
like me.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And I've learned to accept that it's okay.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And see their perception of sometimes, you know, when people
come into a clinic, their perception of what they want
and reality actually two separate things. They've done all this
Google research, They've looked at Instagram, they've looked at Facebook, whatever,
you know, TikTok, and that's what they think is correct.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
When you actually tell them the truth, they don't like
hearing it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So then they come back and they might put a
not so nice comment on Google and there's nothing you
can do. And like my Robin says, you just got
to let them because they're miserable people.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Usually yeah, exactly, yeah, you know, and unfortunately there's just
the way life is hard not to take things personally.
But I've learned to accept that.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I will be hurt and I will question why this
has happened, and if it's something wrong I've done or
something I can improve on, great, But sometimes.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's just people being people.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
They could be unreasonable, unrealistic expectations, or they're just one
of those people who will never be happy no matter
how they go, and I just have to accept it.
And now I've just learned I'm just going to ignore
the noise around me and just let them it's okay.
It's easier said than done, though, because that's to tell myself,
Oh my god, I just I've read some really hurtful
things that's been said about me by excident. I was
(13:06):
just googling myself because I was searching for an article
I've written. I oh, what is this in the Reddit
forum that's being said about me? They were very hurtful
comments that I would not say of anyone else. But
it's you know, I don't participate in forums like that
because it's just not my style. So I think it's
very easy to get bogged down by the noise around
us because we can't control what's on the Internet and
(13:27):
what's being said. And I think in my practice, what
I've learned to do is I'm quite happy to see
people who like me.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And who would come back. And a lot of my
work is the word of mouth.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So a lot of my patients have got family friends,
people that they word of mouth refer, and that's great.
I do find it hard when I get people saying, oh,
I've come to you because I've read a Google review
about you, or I've seen your stuff on social media,
And I find that a bit harder because sometimes the
persona that they see and the expectations they have, as
(13:59):
you might know, it's very different. They have a lot
higher expectations, and I'm not necessarily the persona that they
imagine me to be as a clinician, because.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
It's all virtual.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Absolutely, so I think you know, in clinic, I like
the fact that a lot of my patients get along
with me. I get along with them. If they don't
like me, they don't come back, and I'm okay with that.
You're better off seeing someone you like, you can get
along with and have that rapport, and if you like me,
you refer other people like minded who are like you,
who like me, and accept the way that this professional
(14:31):
relationship is going to work. So I think now I
just have that mindset and I've just accepted, as I'm
getting older too.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
That that's just life and it's okay.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
We can't satisfy everyone, and if we want to be happy,
we just have to ignore the noise around us.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
That is so true.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And you know what's interesting is I mean, I've my
business has grown through word of mouth.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
That's perfectly smooth.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
What's interesting is since the TGA rulings and we've taken
off all the different words, we can say, all the
before and afters. I had no continue patients since end
of July last year, before Christmas. Now that's a lot
for one person. At the end, I was pretty cooked.
(15:15):
By the end of the year, no one came because
of social media. They all came through word of mouth.
And I have to say they are much nicer clients
because they've been referred by people that are already coming
to the clinic, that have been attracted to me because
the type of person and.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Practitioner I am.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So you know, it's I think social media to some
degree initially was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I think it is also hard double edged thought.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, I use social media for advocacy and education, so
I don't advertise any of my way and if you
look at my social media, they are very very few
before after photos because that's just not me. It's okay
if someone else wants to do it, but that's just
not me, because for me, it's about educating. It's about
having a voice, an educated voice that people can listen
(16:05):
to and who can lean on and go all right, Okay,
she's a dermatologist.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
She probably knows what she's doing.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
And I don't necessarily need you to come and see me,
but just trust that a dermatologist is someone who can
help you better than someone else who's promoting some product
because they're getting paid, but has no special, credible expertise
or experience. So for me, yeah, social media is a
way to just have a presence to educate and connect
(16:34):
with people, but I don't use it to get work.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Did you train in Melbourne or did you train in Malaysia?
In Melbourne?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So I did medical school in Auckland and I followed
my then boyfriend to Wellington for a year and then
I got a little bit bored.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh I need to be in a bigger city.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I need a little bit more challenged because I'm constantly
needing to be stimulated. So I moved to Melbourne, and
the first few weeks of being Melbourne, I just thought,
this is going to be my home forever.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And I love New Zealand. It's great.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
But I also found New Zealand quite insular and the
more different you are, the more difficult it was for
people to accept you. But when I was in Melbourne
is the more different you are, the easier it is,
and the more interesting you are people who accept you.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And I loved that concept because I'm a big city girl.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I grew up in kl And, so I love the
idea of being different, being with different people, networking. I'm
very social, I'm an extrod. So Melbourne was my than
spiritual home and I thought that in New Zealand, I
had wanted to be a physician, but then I got
quite burnt out working at the hospital with on calls
(17:42):
and night shifts.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And different things.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And I had a dermatologist mentor who took me on
because I said, I actually quite liked the idea of dermatology,
but I didn't know very much about it because in
medical school you get one or two weeks of lectures
and all they teach you is a little bit about
exama a libit of psoriasis. That's it, and you're supposed
to figure out if you liked it. And then you know,
as you get older, you just think, you know, it's
(18:05):
just a career. I need work life balance. I need
something that interests me, that can sustain my stimulation. And
because I'm such an extra it, I just like meeting people,
talking to people. So I thought I'll get dermatology to go.
So when I was in Melbourne, I also met another
mentor who was Professor Rod Sinclair, who's the alopecia expert,
and he said to me, I remember our first meeting.
(18:26):
He's like, oh, I will only take you on if
you do a PhD with me. And I was young,
and Naima thought, yeah, sure. I didn't beat an eyelid
and I didn't know what I was getting myself into.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I was like, oh my god. So I agreed to
do it.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And it was a genetic study looking at the genetic
basis of fema pattern helos and all of a sudden
I was broke and there was uncertainty about my future.
Why am I doing this for three years not getting
paid and there's no guarantee I'm going to get into dermatology,
but I was determined to finish what. Every time I
(19:00):
start something, I'm de dermined to finish it.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm just that kind of person.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
The first year I called the throwaway year, where none
of the experiments worked.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I'm a doctor, I'm not a scientist.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But I was then having to pipet things, having to
sterilize things, and doing all these experiments like, oh my god,
this is completely out of my depth. But I was
very organized because I started writing the first chapter of
my thesis in my first year, which was basically just
literature reviews. Was fine to do, and then things fell together.
(19:32):
It was there were a lot of challenges, but luckily
that all panned out.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
The hard work paid off.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I got into dermatology the last year of my PhD,
and then when I started first year of dermatology training
in Melbourne, I set for the first I think it
was the pharmacology exams in the first year, and I
submitted my PhD thesis that in the same year, got
married the same year, and then just yeah, went through that.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So do you think you got ADHD? Actually, you know
what I think I do.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I'm self diagnosed and I never these days because there's
so much more awareness for ADHD.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I reckon I do have ADHD.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I've come to the realization in the last year or two,
and I keep saying this to some of my friends.
I'm constantly driven. I constantly need to find something to do.
I don't like to be bored. But you do finish things.
I do finish things. I always do. I always do.
If I choose to start something, I will only choose
to start it if I can finish something. But these days,
(20:32):
I find life. I go to a conference, if that
talk does not capture me in the first ten to
twenty seconds, I just drift off.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I'll just start looking at my phone.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
My concentration span has got shorter and shorter and shorter
over the last few years, and I just find it
hard to relax. Sometimes it's just what I'm working on.
So I do think I've ADHD. But I don't think
I'm at the stage where I need to see someone
to get help or.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Be medicated, because I think I'm managing okay for now.
H No.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I've also listened to a Brene Brown book that I
read as well. You know, I mentioned how I hate
being bored I can't relax, but you know, when I'm
so busy these days, being bored is a privilege.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Absolutely. Well, they say that's when you get your best ideas.
It's when you're exactly Yeah, it feels imagination. That's what
I'm teaching my children.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I'm trying to do a little bit of meditation, but
rather than calling it meditation, because the kids now do
meditation at school, so good.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
So when I have the children and I'll just before
you know, read a book or before we go to bed,
and so now we're just going to sit for five
minutes and do nothing. And I think all of us
should be doing that because it's just constant, go, go,
go it is and it's okay to be bod give
yourself a mission to be bored, because I think really
it's a it's a privilege to be able to do
that when we're constantly in such a challenging, demanding world.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Coming into Brisbane yesterday, I was sound at a conference
and I met this fabulous nurse whose African American heritage.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Her name's Agnes and just fabulous and.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
She's going to come on the podcast to talk about,
you know, women of color in nursing. Do you feel
having your Asian heritage in Melbourne probably didn't make any
difference because everyone is just so, you know, and just fabulous.
Did it make a difference here in Brisbane?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Do you think? I'm gonna say very suchly, but not
that much.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I felt that such a Asian racism a lot more
when I was in medical school in New Zealand. We
don't do these things here in New Zealand, but I
know there could still be some racism in areas outside
of Melbourne, but in Queensland where we may still be
a little bit lagging behind, so to speak. But I
(22:47):
haven't felt that myself because to be honest, I'm quite
westernice I'm a banana.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
No, hang on, am I a banana? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Chat with her my friend was actually a Caucasian and
he talks about him being the other.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yes, I'm an attic because I am yellow on the
outside and I'm wide on the inside because I'm not
super Asian and a lot of my friends are not typical.
I don't even want the right word to say is
without offending anyone. But a lot of my friends are
very westernized yeah as well, and I do have some
Asian friends who are strong on the Asian heritage, and
that's okay.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
But I think because.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I am where I am in my career, and I'm
fortunate to be where i am in my career, where
I think I've done a lot to be at this
stage in life where people sort of know me, they
know what I do, they respect what I do. So
I think I don't feel it as much.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Done the hard yards.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's been tough, but you know, I've worked. You know,
some people get lucky. I never get lucky. I always
have to work very hard to get where I am,
and I think I will always appreciate the hard yards
that I've done because I know I've worked incredibly hard
to get where I am.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But again, it's not a solo effort. It's a village
to do that. And do you think when you were
brought up?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Because Altally Vertek has been on numerous times on the
potty here like she's our resident plastic surgent, and you
know she has spoken about the pressure she felt.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Being Asian from her family. Did you feel that.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
My parents, who are still in Malaysia, they come from
very traditional families. They are still of a very traditional
mindset now in their seventies and I can never change them.
And that's okay, that's fine, But yeah, interesting because my
parents have never pressured me to do medicine. Nothing. My
parents never pressured me to do anything, and they were
just proud of what I did. And even my paternal grandparents,
(24:43):
who were the traditional ones who really push for son
sun song in the family, that never happened. There was
no pressure from them for me to excel. But because
I saw all of that happening, I still remember vividly.
But my maternal grandmother, who looked after my sister and
I and who lived with us in the same household
(25:04):
growing up, I remember her saying to me, this is
what your other grandparents think of not having a son,
and so you have to work hard and prove to
them that girls can do the same thing. So I
always remember that. But I think a lot of the
pressure came from me to succeed. So that's why I
worked really hard. But doing medicine was not my first choice.
(25:25):
I didn't know what I wanted to do. I had
the grades, and I thought, oh, growing up, I was
just you know, all I ever knew was that my
dad was like the chief finance director of three AM,
which is a multinational American company in Malaysia, and he
was loyal to the company. He climbed the corporate ladder
for years and before I was born, he was working
(25:46):
with them to the day he retired, when I was
already married, he was still with them. So that loyalty
I learned that growing up, and also the work ethic.
Work hard, and all I ever knew was I wanted
to be in corporate I wanted to wear a suit
to work. I wanted to business cards, I could facts,
(26:07):
I would.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Have a secretary. They went so and so this office.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Just that idea of the corporate world intrigued me because
it was all I knew. And my mum was in
the corporate world too, So doing medicine was almost like
a default because I didn't know what to do. There
was no pressure to do it, but I just did
it and I enjoyed it. And I'm very fortunate to
still be in the career because a lot of doctors
get burnt out, yeah, and they leave the profession they
(26:33):
do something completely different. But I've been very fortunate that
I found my niche in dermatology and I love what
I do. There's a lot of hard work involved. It
wasn't luck at all. It was just a lot of
hard work.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know, I've been too different, you know, damn conferences,
and I have to say, I think dermatology is up
there with some of the hardest specialties. And this is
what people don't realize, all the obscure skin conditions that
the skin impacts, or everything impacts the skin, or vice versa.
(27:08):
It is so complex, and yet people think it is
just this really basic special and it is not.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
It is.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah, it is is a really good point because there
are you know, at least a few thousand different skin
conditions that we see and treat. And often I find
that offensive. I suppose I shouldn't blame anyone, but you know,
people come to see us and they go, oh, that
dermatology has only looked at us for two seconds and
didn't even touch my skin or didn't do this, and
(27:38):
they make judgments on our clinical recommendations or diagnoses. But
in reality, in dermatology, we trained so hard. We trained
for at least so basically med school is six years
and then you do your residency and I basically studied
for thirteen or fourteen years to.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Be where I am.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Six years of medical school, I did three years of PhD,
four years of dermatology training, another extra year of alopecia
subspecialty training to get to my level. Other dorms do
the same thing or different pathways. We do all of
that in our specialty training. So I can look at
someone even when I call them up from the waiting
room they're walking towards yeah exactly, I know exactly what
(28:16):
they have, or that talking in the consult is really
just sing fluff. Yeah, I don't need all the extra information,
but I'll sit down and talk to you create that rapport.
But in my mind, I already know what you're here for.
And as a dermatologist, we're trained in pattern recognition. There
are a lot of these complex conditions common uncommon. If
we look at you for a few seconds and we
(28:37):
don't know what it is, that's when we need to
do a biopsy, or that's when we really need to
get additional information, or that's so we need to refer
you on to other dermatologies or other specialties to get
an opinion on things. So they are straightforward conditions. There
are harder conditions. I'm not saying like you know we
know everything because we don't. But yes, demotology is very complex,
but also opens up these whole can of worms about
(28:58):
social media and googling. And then you get people who
want everything natural or they don't trust what you say,
but they want to do everything without medications. That's not
science based, it's pseudoscience. So there's a lot of these
to contend with. And I think that's the challenge of
being a doctor in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
But it's not just this year. It's been for the
past few years.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
And I think that's going to change a little bit more,
but hopefully with AI, that's going to change the way
we treat things. It's going to be a companion to
our specialty. It already is a companion. It should not
be replacing dermatologists because you need that human factor. You
need a human to have that final decision, that ultimate
decision on clinical judgment and treatment. But we do need
(29:41):
to accept that medicine has changed and we need to
embrace technology. And I think for dermatology we are right
visible at the front line because the skin's the biggest
organ Like you say, you don't get social media influences
who are cardiology social media influences or neuphrology, social media influence.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
They're all skin influences. And because it's so.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Accessible and it's just such an industry, there's a huge
market in skin care and hair care. So yeah, that's
what we're it's you know, it's an interesting conversation that
we could talk about, and I'm sure it's going to
keep changing in the next few years. Post Covid, I
was doing tele health for particularly acne roseatua. But what
(30:26):
I was finding was everyone's skin was so inflamed. Now
it was because they were listening to all these influences
and buying this product and that product, and I'll give
this one a bit of a whirl and I'll try this,
and this didn't work, so and I had to take
(30:47):
I can't tell how many people right back.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right back to the basics. Go get geloch, per se
qv whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
If you want to do, do nothing other than sunscreen
for your skin.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Nothing. Let it settle down.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And I was blown away by some of the active
and greed separated some of these products.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, I think Covid had a lot to answer
for because it was when you know, the industry just
went crazy. It was good in that it provided a
platform for educating people about skin minimalism, you need to
use less, you need to not have all these things.
You know, people were looking more into active ingredients and
they understood more about what active ingredients did rather than
(31:28):
brand shopping. But it also was bad in that, like
you say, they were just buying things it was exciting,
or they just didn't know what to use because it.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Couldn't get proper advice.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
It was all And that was a rise of social
media influences throughout COVID. We saw that just when exponential
and e commerce platforms selling chemical peeps to use at
home skin care products, everything. So I think COVID had
a lot to answer for. It was basically the boom
of the social media industry, and social media influencing became
(32:04):
a career.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And a very well paying career. I'm ad.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yes, my prediction is in the next few years, social
media influencing will be obsolete. That's my prediction because AI
can generate same content a lot cheaper. Yeah, yeah, that's
my prediction. I may be wrong, but yeah, watch this space.
Let's see.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I couldn't agree with you more, I hope so because
some of them I just listen to them and just go,
oh my girl.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I know there's some who are fantastic, who are there
to educate and who would say I'm not an expert,
but this is my experience. If you need help, see
your dematories. But there are some who will not say that.
And you know, in the last one two years, we've
seen twin skincare influencing. I think it's irresponsible on the
marketing side of brands and e commerce platforms who do that,
(32:56):
where they're exploiting these young ones because they're also probably
cheaper to use than adult social media influences. They can
spook these products and they see these whole untapped upon
market for young ones to use retinal glycolic acids and
whatnot when they don't need to. And I've done so
many media interviews about that. Got these young ones don't
even use sunscreens. Why bother using a retinal if.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
You're not going to use a sunscreen?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, yeah, the basics are not even there. It's just
and the recent ten lines trend where they want to
look like they've had a tan at the beach.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I know, that's nuts. That one. What is happening. I
can't believe in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
As a dermatologist, we have to bring back what happened
in the nineteen eighties, nineteen sixties, seventies where people were
getting sunburns and seeing all these skin cancers. But you know,
skin cancers may be on the rise again in the
next five to ten years because of this.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I was at like I was what nineteen seventy born
out in the sun, but I wasn't a huge some
of it because I would burn so badly with my
skin toping.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I have so many skin cancers now, yeah, so many.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I've had a massive big one cut off, constantly doing
e fidex on my face, like it is a a
problem for me coming growing up at a farm in Queensland.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, But I think, you know, unfortunately the
young ones don't realize because to them, I don't have
to think about skin cancers until I'm how old. I
think the messaging is so important sometimes I just say
to them, now, you're gonna get wrinkles when you're thirty. Oh,
so you have to twist the messaging so it makes
it more appealing for them. But still it is a
(34:31):
big problem. And I don't know if public health messaging
is sexy enough to combat this problem because it all
comes back to social media.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
There's no regulation.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Anyone can see anything, and all of a sudden, it's
just explodes because it looks cool, because it's a trend.
But remember that trends come and go. It's not here
to stay.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
But I do worry about the tanning industry, as in
fake ten, with the chemicals that have been used full
body people going every week. I mean, I got on
the bandwagon. That's not my whole dematology business stuff. You know,
twenty years ago I set up a spray tan business.
Nevere poop pooed me. That's how I made money and
(35:11):
then sold the business. But that has been inhaled and
it's full body tanning. You've got to wonder about the
chemicals that are in that. If down the track, we're
going to have major issues with tannuts.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, I think the education about you know, love the
skin you're in. There's nothing wrong with being really fair.
You're still beautiful. There's nothing wrong with the skin that
you're in. Really like, why do you need to look
ten to make you feel like you're beautiful? What is
it so you feel like you're in the French with
vieria what. I don't know what the attraction is.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I think people feel, especially Aussie's, it's always been that,
you know, healthy, son loving, you know, beechy sort of thing,
whereas isn't funny. I look at that, you know, the
red hair, the pale skin, I think, oh my god,
it's divine.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's like the Koreans and the China,
they're all I know. My mom was an umbrella woman
and I was very embarrassed about it growing up because.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
My mom just put that umbrella away.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Should be like the only women Asian woman with the
umbrella and the visor.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And now I'm becoming like her.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Okay, I'm getting my pigmented flat separate keratosis, my pigmentation.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I don't want pigmentation.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I think Asians are so much better at sun protection
than some fairer skin Caucasians are because everyone's so paranoid
about pigmentation. Absolutely, everyone wants white skin because you know,
it's glorified. But yeah, in Australia maybe because it's such
a lifestyle thing. It's seen as healthy when you've got
bronze skin. Healthy healthier skin is when you're attend but
(36:47):
it's actually not. Sun protection really should be the Australian lifestyle. Absolutely,
you know, it should be embraced as that, but I
think there's also not enough awareness. And when I first
came to Brisbane, I was shocked that my kids go
to a very central school in an area where the
parents are educated to a bit more affluent, but the
school had no sun Smart policy.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I was going to get my kids out of the.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
School, but then I thought I'll work with the principal
and the school to get them into the sun Smart policy.
I guess I do a lot of media. We got
Channel nine years coverage and I got our dermatology college
involved in media releases, the Cancer Council and different things.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
But I was shocked that it was nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And the uptake of the sun Smart policy in Queensland
schools is apparently really low. And because it's not compulsory,
so I thought it capulsary, it's it's very much dependent
on who runs the school and what motivation they have
to adopt the policy is not compulsory. Yeah, so that
was shocking to me. And having lived in Melbourne and
(37:45):
Canberra and no people in Sydney, Melbourne and canber.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
People are great. You don't have to remind them.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
The parents are slip slopping sunscreens, hats kids have, you know,
you see them doing that on the on the weekends.
But here, I can walk in Paddington in central Brisbane
on a weekend at midday and see parents having babies
on the harness. Babies have no hats to kIPS up squinting.
The grandparents have no hats and it breaks my heart.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
In a pram and they've got a little pants or
something over there.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Exactly, there's only so much you can do. And I
know you are drives with the city. It see redheads
people going up for lunch squinting, no sunglasses, no hats, nothing,
and I bet they've got no sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
So it's a huge problem.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And I don't know what we can do about it
because there's only so much. We're all adults, we're all
grown ups. There needs to be some sense of responsibility
that everyone needs to take for themselves because there's only
so much public health messaging and so much we can do.
I get patients to come to me and there's sunburned.
I go, okay, you're here for a skin shirt and
your sunburned, And then they say to me, but that's
(38:50):
why we come to see that's what you're here for
to tell me I have no skin cancers.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Is the awareness is just not quite there because we
say to people when we're treating for pigmentation or laces
or whatever, there's no point in treating.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And if they're not saying exactly what is the because
it's waste of money.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, it's almost like there's this sense of denial and
a lot of people then because a lot of skincnsers
don't kill you, therefore I'll be okay. And now this
whole thing about you know, great, they're melanoma treatments that
prolonged survival. You can cure melanomas. We don't have to
worry anymore. But actually no, because these melanoma treatments can
make you feel very very sick, very unwell, very unwell,
(39:32):
and there's no quality of life for some of my patients.
And you need to keep having these six monthly, twelve
monthly pet scans and different things. No, you don't just
take a drug and your life goes back to normal.
So whilst we have revolutionalized the treatments for melanoma and
it's life changing. But there's also this misconception that is
(39:53):
fooling people to think I'll be okay if I get
sunbones for getting melanoma, because I've got this there, Yeah,
life changing treatment without realizing hang on a sack. No,
it's not just taking antibiotics for a week and you
be your kay. They don't understand the implications of these
medicines either.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Really good friend of ours just by chance found out
he had a spot on his lung post melanoma being
removed from his arm. It was an X ray having
something else done and they just happened to catch the
bottom of the lung and they saw the tiny little
mark on it. He's done immunotherapy. He describes himself as
feeling like the tin man without the needing the oil,
(40:31):
because that's the impact. It saved his life and it's
fabulous and he' he would be dead by now if
it hadn't have been picked up. But his joints, he
feels like an old It feels like the tin man
without the oil. Yeah, And I thought, wow, it was
such a great description of how he's Straight away I
(40:53):
could see exactly how he's feeling.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Absolutely, that's how a lot of my melanoma patients who
have gone through immiotherapy, melanoma's gone for a long time.
That's exactly what they describe.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yeah, terrible, and that neuropathy and terrible.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, exactly. Wells you know it's all great stuff, but
you pay your price for it too. I couldn't agree
with you more.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
And I just think probably if there's any takeaway from today,
where your sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yes, where your sunscreen, because you're gonna look ten years
older than you are.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Don't listen to all the influences because really don't know
shit about all the skin care products. Get good advice,
don't get sunburned. Be kind to yourself. Eighty five percent
is okay.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, you don't have to be one hundred percent.
You don't have to be a perfectionist. And it's okay
to be bored. Give yourself permission to be bored.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And the people you're writing awful things about online is
a real person at the end of that, and maybe
show a bit of kindness. If you're writing awful things
on Facebook and being an online cowboy, it's doesn't help anyone,
and I'm probably better. It doesn't make you feel great either.
Absolutely and I, for one, don't. I don't write bad
review anyone.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
I just communicate with the business directly and say I
think this is what you could improve on because I
know how it impacts people, and obvious you've got to
be kind.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
I actually got to be kind.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah, you know, it's in this society where there's so
much challenges stress. Nobody needs anything else to push them
to the edge, and we know it does. Yes, So
if we don't look after ourselves, if we let others
know that we're not putting ourselves first, no one else
is going to put you first. And that's the fact
(42:36):
that absolutely, yeah, I need to come first.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yes, you do. And you've done so much work and
help so many people. Now sometimes you look after yourself.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
So watch me.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Hopefully in the next year or two, I can find
that balance a little bit more. Is not perfect yet.
I don't think I have a you know, find that
perfect balance. But I think little wins. I'll take little wins.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And I think if we acknowledge it and work towards it,
we're getting somewhere.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah. Yeah, we'll all help each other. It's a village
on our own.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
No, absolutely not, Thank you so much. For coming in.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Thank you for having me impression unscripted, very candid, Love it.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Thanks Leona, Thanks Bag
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.