July 6, 2025 • 43 mins
Today on the podcast we chat with Emma Hall. Emma has developed a remarkable virtual reality program, which is designed to help build self-resilience, leadership skills, and emotional intelligence.
Emma and I chatted in season 2 (episode 4) about leadership and workplace culture. Today we expand on that conversation and discuss how Brave VR can help an individual or workplace develop their leadership skills.
Brave VR is an immersive leadership training experience that uses virtual reality to build emotional intelligence, resilience, and real-world leadership skills—all backed by neuroscience.
Emma has kindly extended an amazing offer to you all. I can highly recommend this program; it has helped me grow personally and professionally. If you are someone who loves self-development, check it out.
***Just so you all know, this is not a paid advertisement. I am sharing this information because I have experienced the benefits of this program, and I believe it will be a wonderful way for nurses and other health professionals to develop their leadership skills.***
BRAVE VR has two options:
BRAVE VR 12-month access (20-module program) + Meta Quest 3S Headset = $1899 AUD + GST
Or BRAVE VR 12 months access (20-module program) + Meta Quest 3S Headset + 5 X 1-hour coaching sessions throughout the program = $2499 AUD + GST (plus postage)
Listeners who quote BEC15 will get a 15 % discount off when they email hello@brave-vr.com to make their order.
Sponsored by Nutricia. This episode was created independently by the presenters/speakers and the views expressed herein are those of the presenters/speakers, not of Nutricia. This content is intended for healthcare professionals. Medical professionals should rely on their own skill and assessment of individual patients.
For anyone doing the program, I would love them to tag us on Instagram or Linkedin Brave-vr
If you’re interested in a Brave VR program for your organisation (10+ licenses), please reach out to hello@brave-vr.com for our special enterprise pricing.
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/tendernessnurses
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appochia Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenantus for Nurses.
I suspec Woodbine here this season. I am so excited
to announce that the podcast is being supported by Nutritia,
which is a global leader in medical nutrition. They understand
the needs of nurses in the nutrition space and for
over one hundred and twenty five years have provided products
(00:31):
to support child health. Some of Nutrita's pediatric brands include
Neo Kate Junior for children who have food allergies and
app to Grow for those fussy eaters. And those of
us who have children know many kids who go through
the phases of definite fussiness. For more information and resources,
visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia dot com dot
(00:54):
au forward slash Pediatrics. I just want to say a
huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire to support nurses
is truly appreciated, and they are allowing me to continue
this podcast so that we can all grow as nurses.
This season, we have some amazing speakers in the pediatric
space which I cannot wait to share with you all. Hi,
(01:14):
my name's Beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for nurses.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity
to be. So I hit it and parked it for
nearly four years. We always have free will, We always
get to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hi everyone, thanks for tuning back into tenderness for nurses today.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I have my.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Beautiful friend Emma Hall with me and I have just
experienced her Brave VR BRAVBR program.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah program, yep.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So this is the world's first behavioral and emotional training
using VR and I have to tell you that just
blew me away.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I had a bit of a moment.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
After that because it was quite confronting looking at the
limiting beliefs.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Have you found that with other people? Oh?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Absolutely so obviously So with Brave our leadership program it's
based on which is bold, Resilient, Authentic, Vulnerable, Empathetic. So
there's four modules per each letter. So you did one
of the ones in the BOLD program. And so Bold
is very personal and it's interesting because this is a
leadership program, it's how we've built it. However, this program
that's out this year is very much personal development as well,
(02:27):
and I think at the end of the day, understanding
your fears, your limiting beliefs, what keeps you in denial.
You kind of have to work through that stuff before
you could actually then elevate to take on new concepts.
Because that's the challenge that I found in leadership is
trying to teach people to do have difficult conversations when
they have these deep, limiting beliefs about themselves that they
don't know actually really difficult to make change. So that's
(02:48):
why our early modules can be for a lot of
people a bit confronting. It's perhaps a conversation that you
may not have had before or be aware of, and
then obviously you're doing it in a virtual environment.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It was remarkable. I actually felt like I was for
a start, but I think that you really nailed the
limiting beliefs. How did you come about those? Is that
through just teaching leadership? I mean, how did you work those?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
So obviously, So Eliza, who's the other one of the
the co founders, and I have worked together for a
couple of years previously doing culture transformations and leadership training.
So obviously this is topics that we've taught for some time.
But we do a lot of work and along with
behavioral psychologists to sort of validate the information as well.
So yes, it's why because it's universal content. Like, at
the end of the day, this is applicable to everybody,
(03:40):
for humans, right, there isn't a human being that would
see the options to select in that and not actually
have one that sixt them. These are the most common
beliefs that are out there, and these are the most
common limiting beliefs that are out there.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Because seriously, I could have picked them all. I was like,
which one's the most pertinent to me?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
You really nailed it.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So when people do experience that, you find like, I've
got a bit emotional because I did. I found it
a little bit confronting. Is that what the feedback is?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I mean, certainly in those early modules, yes, So as
we move into resilience, we're teaching sort of more frameworks
so that probably have slightly less of that very deep
personal component.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But then we get into authenticity and vulnerability and we
go a.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Bit back to those those topics that we're sort of
building you through the program.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah. I think actually what's interesting.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Is I mean you could sit in a room and
talk about limiting beliefs or fears and perhaps not have
quite the same reaction a lot of that is because
of the mode that we use, which is virtual reality.
And so when you're in virtual reality, your brain doesn't
actually differentiate between what's real and what's not.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
So that's a big component of it.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
And obviously in this case, to explain to listeners, you're
actually in a bottom of a dark canyon and you
have to climb out of the canyon and go through
the different layers learning how to break your limiting beliefs.
And so it's very cleverly allies as our creative lead
that you know, clever by design in terms, it's all storytelling.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So there's a reason it's dark in there.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
It's a reason you have a torch, is the reason
you can hear the sounds you hear. But when you're
immersed in it, statistically you learn four times faster and
immersive environment, is that right, Yeah, so it's really Yeah,
it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Because I felt like I was there at the bottom
of the canyon. Yes, and then you know, getting to
that middle layer and then breaking through the limiting beliefs
and being able to see the most It was amazing
the view, but I felt like I was on top
of that mountain. Yeah, what gave you the idea for.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
This for the whole program. Oh gosh, okay.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
So obviously, as I mentioned before, so Brave as a
leadership program that we came up with a couple of
years ago at mjoy So, which is my consultancy, which
we spoke about.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
We did Enjoy previously.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
So was that version for a very long time, and
Culture Left started Enjoy for four or five years, and
then a few years ago created Brave. And the reason
we created Brave was because we were going into organizations
and talking a lot to leaders and putting in new.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Systems and fancy frameworks.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And what I was noticing was the people I was
talking to though, the way they spoke to their colleagues,
the way they spoke to their staff, their mindset around
leadership was quite archaic and not willing to budge, like
really rigid and not willing to have any conversations beyond surface.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And I got to a point where I thought, but
hang on.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Putting all this expensive systems and fun things in will
not work if you're not able to speak to your
people and relate to your people in a different way.
So there was a real absolute pivot point where we
thought about like what's our purpose, what are we trying
to achieve? And we want to have more brave leaders
in the world because people need to enjoy coming to work, right,
there's too many people that it's a lot going on
for people.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
If you come to work, you still leave your.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Organization primarily because of your leader.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You still will.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
There'll be money factors and other things, but primarily it
will be if you've got a poor leader. That's a
really strong reason for people to leave organizations. So, knowing
that we pivoted to this Brave program where we did
leadership workshops coaching. We still do that. However, obviously you
can't scale when you have that kind of operation. So
Eliza and I were doing a lot of workshops and
that was great, but we're only two people. And then
(07:05):
it happened to be a particular There's two things that happened. One,
we've partnered with Measure for a while supporting an internal program,
and we got familiar with some of their equipment. And
Eliza and I are very much our mindsets are we
love experiential learning. We don't do boring basically, right, We're
always looking to make something more exciting. And then one
day she rang me and said, hey, have you seen
that program Limitless with Chris Hemsworth.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Did you see fabulous?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Isn't it fab And I was like no, and she said,
I think you should take a look at it. So
I took a look at it and we both got
on the phone and we were like, oh my god,
use a virtual reality headset to walk across a bridge
in Sydney right to simulate fear and stress in his body,
and they measured it and all that, and we both
went that is an incredible way to create emotion and
(07:49):
feeling in people. So if we can't be with you
physically like in our sessions, our goal is that you
will feel really uncomfortable, really engaged, really emotionally. We want
you to go through the emotions because that means it's
really sinking in. So how do we do that without
us being available? And we saw that you could actually
replicate that using virtual reality and so then I got
kind of brave and decided to pick up the phone
(08:09):
and ring the director of the company who built the
VR in that program, and he was in Sydney, Jamie,
who is our other co founders. There's three of us
for Bravia, and we flew to Sydney, we met up,
we talked, and he has had a lot of experience building,
Like you've seen the quality.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Of graphics and amazing.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So his team built extraordinary graphics and we knew that
the combination of that and the program that we wanted
to do coming together would be amazing. And you know,
VA has been used a lot in training over the
last of ten years or so, so very much that
sort of scenario based, you know, technical training, but as
far as we're aware, no one's certainly done this leadership
(08:47):
emotional intelligence training, very storytelling, and that's why all of
our modules are in these incredible worlds that we put
you in, because one, it's very engaging.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It's like, did you know a third of the world
of gamers a third?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
A third?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And I mean, look, this isn't gaming as such, but.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
It definitely has that you're in there for fifteen minutes,
there's no fifteen fifteen minutes you're in there.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
What did it feel like, oh blink of an eye?
Really if just I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Know, I sort of lost losttra a time track of time.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
So that point is a really critical one and actually
talking about it to a client yesterday, there are not
many scenarios in your life where you are completely not distracted,
not many, right, But when you're in VR, there are
absolutely no distractions because you can't see anything but the
world that you're in.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, and so there's.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
No phone distractions, there's no even you know, in this room,
we're talking to each other, but there are lights, ort
a of things moving, there's a mirror, right, there's things
that could distract you, there's nothing. This is why you
learn faster, because your full attention is focused on what's
happening in front of you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I was completely engrossed in the moment, and I was
in that canyon, yeah, and I was looking at those
limiting beliefs and I was crushing those limiting beliefs and
actually it felt good to do that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And so even though I felt emotional because it's it
is confronting when you've nailed some of your limiting beliefs
that come out of the rock. I mean, I don't
know about you, guys, but I find it confronting because
one of the things I try to do is self
growth and be insightful. And so you know, when you
do see those and there are things that you have
(10:23):
acknowledged and trying to work on it does sort of
hitch slappy in the face, Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I think that's why A big element of why VR
is such a great mode to do some of this
work in is the psychological safety. Now, obviously we're friends
and I was around, but typically you do this completely
solo and for a lot of people to sit in
a room, unless you've built deep trust with a therapist
or a counselor or a coach, you're probably not going
to go into a room and talk about those things
(10:49):
quite openly. Whereas in there there's that psychological safety to
be able to sometimes touch on those topics that can
be a bit sensitive.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
But even if you are in a relationship with a
psychologist's counselor whatever it may be, that takes time to
build up that relationship to a point where you are
willing to share your innermost feelings. It doesn't just happen overnight,
does it. No?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Is it available now? Yes?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
So we launched Bravery R in much of this year,
So it's been more only a couple of months that
we've sort of been up and running, but we've had
just amazing feedback from people.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So similar to yourself.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
I think what blows me away every time as I
put someone in a heads there and they come out
and they're just like because it's so different, you know,
so different, And so.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Particularly for organized I talk on both fronts.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
So from an organization perspective, why this is really working
and why people picking it up is because we've got
huge challenges around dispersed workforces. No one works in the
same place at the same time, so everyone's kind of
geographically dispersed, so consistent training is really difficult to do.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
The second point is around cost, right.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
So having been in a GM role for culture and leadership,
the first thing to go on budgets is usually leadership
or personal development, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And so it's like, how do we make something.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
More affordable that we don't have to cut it out
because it's such critical stuff that usually you only get
access to when you get very senior, by which most
of your bad habits are quite well formed, absolutely right,
and so we really need to get people a lot
younger and a lot more earlier in their careers to
understand the stuff to shape who they are as leaders.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We've got a huge rise in gen z right.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
In the workforce that come twenty thirty, I think we're
at about thirty percent of the workforce will be gen z.
It doesn't really cut the mustard sitting and boring meeting
rooms and you know, and whole day workshops.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I'm still a fan. I still do them.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I think you're bringing people together is great. However, logistically
that's hard. Costwise that's hard. Impact on bottom line and
productivity is hard. Then the biggest problem is you're pumped
and excited on the day and then you leave and
you go back to exactly the same way you are.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Interesting, you said that I went down to a big
industry conference on Sunday down the Gold Coast and I
went down, you know, to listen to all the regulatory
changes that are happening at the moment in the asthetic
space in nursing, pin queens on health and I've went
in hoping to learn something new, learned a couple of things,
(13:04):
but walked out feeling really disappointed. Huge amount of dollars later.
And I also thought that the people that probably needed
to hear this were the people that hadn't paid the money,
yeah to be there, do you know what I mean? Yeah,
And it just fell a little bit flat. But then
last night I went to an advanced training course and
(13:25):
it was really interactive and I loved it because the
guest speaker was saying, I want you to think outside
the square. I don't want you just to listen to
what everyone tells you. Start thinking differently. Yeah, and that's
what I think this shows. You know, you've got to
don't listen toward all the KOLs or everyone says, start
listening to your internal dialogue a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
And I felt like I was doing that in that VR.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's funny as you say it like that.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Like the interactive, engaging part of it is very important
for people like our attention spans assured than they've ever
been out with stress and what everything else is going on.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
So to cut through all that noise, it has to
feel really.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Engaging all your senses, so visually you know what you hear,
what you feel. We miss what you feel so much
in training and so that's a huge element of what
we do. And the second point is around that taking
ownership yourself. So I think that we really try and
weave this through all of our stuff, and in the day,
we would love organizations to put this stuff through this right,
(14:23):
I think that's the right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Thing to do.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But there'll be plenty of organizations that don't do any
of this kind of stuff with their people, right. And
so the second part of my story is, yes, we're
working with organizations because this is solving a challenge that
organizations have around leadership. How do we have a cost effective,
impactful This program runs over nine months and it will
continue to grow year and year. In terms of content,
it will be very tailored. We can really customize it.
(14:46):
But personally as well as an individual, you've got to
take accountability for your own personal development as well, Like
relying on that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Coming from an organization is not always going to happen.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So we've created this that will also that is now
it will be in the next two weeks available for
individuals as well to have a headset with the program
loaded on it and do their personal development. And if
you look at that cost comparison to I guess getting
an external coach, you know it means a much more
affordable option. But also it's very engaging and it's fifteen
(15:15):
minutes of your time.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So guys, M's been fantastic and has offered us a
discount code for you and it'll be in the show
notes for you to try.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Basically get yourself, so you get yourself a Brave VR
kit and the kit comes with the headsets a metaquest
three is headset which you get to keep, so it's yours.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So then you can just keep adding out to the module.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Yeah, so then and you will give you access in
this offer to our first program that's out this year, Core,
which is twenty modules. So twenty modules. They take fifteen
minutes each and you do them over. We have a
two week cycle that we recommend.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And the reason we do.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
That is because you'll do the module, but it doesn't
end there. When you come out, you need to log
onto a journal and this is such a critical part
of it because yes, that's really engaging, but we now
need you to take what you just did, reflect on it,
and we ask you some questions, and we get you
to then think about how some in your case, the
limiting belief one that you just did, how that might
be affecting your life and work.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
How could you make some changes.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
We also give you some recommended books, videos, podcasts to
listen to that really embed the stuff that we're talking about.
And then you come back and do the next one
in two weeks, so it's like minimal time. It's probably
going to take you a maximum of thirty minutes every fortnight,
but that's nine months of twenty different topics that your
work through.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
See.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I would do that yeah, easy, Yeah, I mean I
love my self help books and things like that. But
in fifteen minutes I got more out of doing that
into the canyon and looking at my self limiting beliefs.
Then I probably would sit in for two hours. Except
Gible matter you and I absolutely loved hearing him speak.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
It was amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's interesting guys.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Em and I went down to hear Gible Mattes speak
down the Gold Coast and we both came away with
two very different points that we took away with us.
And I found that really interesting that what really with
you wasn't what resonated with me. And I found that
quite a remarkable sort of take home that you know,
what you go in and you're you know, maybe you're
(17:15):
looking for something or totally wanting to find it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
They're looking to attach it to maybe a personal thing
that you're going through.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
You can say you go in there with already challenges
or you know, things that are going on for yourself
and when someone offers some advice that you can link
to that and suddenly it has a much deeper impact
for you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Initially, these are all about self growth. The ones that
are going to come out for individuals.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
So basically the program that's out this year, it's called
Brave Leadership, but it's very leadership of self. So we've
got CEOs doing it at the moment, and we've got
people who've never led before. Okay, because the program so bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetic,
they are quite personal.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
There are frameworks and they're particularly in resilience.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
We set you up with some really amazing you'll end
up being an Olympic sports person and one.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Of them, in my heart, I've always been mine where
you go.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So so there's some really engaging programs and their resilience framework.
But yes, this program this year is really for people.
It's called Foundational Core. It's the foundations that you need,
So whether that's for your own personal development as an individual,
having confidence, knowing who you are, getting really connected to,
how to be vulnerable, how to show.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Up empathetically, it's a great program for that.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
And then going into twenty twenty six, we'll start releasing
some more of our elective modules, a bit more tailored
to different levels of leadership. So this program in particular
is very suitable for anyone to do and you can
go back and do it again. So we actually track
your results in the back end as well, so as
everything that you selected when you're in that program. So
there's a quiz you would have done in there, So
(18:45):
we're testing your knowledge and understanding of what's going on.
We're also so brilliant, but we're also testing your engagement
levels with the program, and so at the moment, we
measure engagement by how you interact with the activities we
ask you to do. But the beautiful thing around technology
and the speed it's moving is soon we will be
able to use eye tracking reckition to see how your
(19:06):
brain is reacting to the content. Yeah, so it's just
so we're able to track a lot of this stuff
as well, so you'll actually be able to look at
your own results and see where am I doing well,
where am I not?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What kind of impact is it is having.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So for an individual talking about your listeners, Yeah, it's
basically a whole year to years access to it.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
This would be.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Great for nurses that are a wanting to learn more
about themselves, wanting to work in a group, but also
wanting to develop leadership skills within that group setting. Yeah,
or maybe they have aspirations of you know, being clinical
nurs consultant or a numb or something. Further, this is
a really great foundation for nurses or any health professional.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, absolutely, so if you're in a leadership role.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
If you're not in a leadership role, and you might
want to be, but even just to build better relationships
with people like and I mean in a role like nursing,
it's all about relationship absolutely. And I know from hearing
some of your podcasts and some of the challenges that
can come with nursing, and it's like, well, how do
I work even better with those people that I might
find a bit difficult to work with, a bit more
challenging to work with. And that is a real from
within stuff. You know, if I think about resilience, we
(20:13):
do a lot of work around circle of control and
things like that, but in a super engaging way, stuff
you'll never forget.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
So what's a circle of control?
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Circle and control that Stephen Cove's model and basically the
circuit control is looking at what's in your circle of control,
what can you actually control back in your day to day,
looking at what's in your circle of.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Influence, what do you have influence over, and then.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
What's not in your control and things outside of your control.
And as human beings, we spend an extraordinary large amount
of energy on things that we don't have any control over,
which is what makes us anxious, totally causes mass anxiety,
slows us down, affects our health. And so what we
aim to teach you and that program is his model,
but in a very engaging way that sometimes just will
(20:54):
connect better to teach you about what actually happens when
you let go a bit and just focus on the
things you actually have control over, like what other people
think of you. You don't have any control over us
of your business right, and your people spend.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So much time.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
I mean, god, I was a shock of for that,
and there are a lot of people, but you know,
even go back to COVID times, I think it became
It's been around for a very long time, but it
became kind of resurfaced during COVID because people were worrying
about stuff that they had no control over. Unfortunately, lockdowns
nothing that any of us could have done any that, right, Yeah,
we were all super stressed about it. And so it's
helping you shift your mindset into the things that actually
(21:30):
you do have control over, and that's your feelings, your actions,
your behaviors, your responses, your own health, things like that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Stuff you've got control over.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
So really, it's not being selfish to look after yourself. No,
God no, because if you look after yourself, then you
can help look after others.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, it's just it's really about where you're putting your energy.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
And when people sort of get burnt out and burnout,
it's a big thing.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
At the moment.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Right, there's obviously somethings you can control and you can't.
And I guarantee for a lot of people, and especially
if if you do this module.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And I'll let you do it when it comes out
and you have a look at it, is what you'll.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Be surprised at is how, even though you don't know
it subconsciously, you're spending a lot of energy on things
that aren't properly in your control. I know I do,
and that's contributing to your being tied, to being burnt out,
to your health all these kind of things that contributes
to it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So it's a mastery that most people don't have.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
But I think what's interesting is I remember sitting in
a training session years ago and learning about the circle
of control. I liked it because I have an interest
in this stuff, right, Oh yeah, like taking control of
my life and how do I make laugh a little
easyer for myself? But I think what we have tried
to do is we're not reinventing the wheel here, right.
These are not topics and subjects that haven't been explored before,
(22:41):
but we're delivering them in a way that touches you differently, right,
that you feel something when you learn about it. I
could read a book around that model. Would I have
an emotional reaction to reading it? Probably not? When you
do it in the headset where we take you to
it's a very beautiful module that one you'll have an
emotional reaction.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Because I mean I did not expect to have the reaction.
You know, I could fil myself welling up when I saw,
you know, the limiting beliefs, but it wasn't just seeing that,
it was the environment I was in.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
It was actually really beautiful exactly right. So the storytellings.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Literally, our production meetings they kind of run a bit
like a pixel movie.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It is so much that goes into it.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
We have Eliza leads a creative along with Josh does
it SFX, and we've amazing developers and all of it matters.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Every little mine should detail in.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
There is been thought through the music that takes you through,
You measure when you're at a movie and you have
these moments, right.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
So all of that is part of it. Look, they're
not all going to make you cry.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
I can promise you that like some of them will
trigger emotions in people, some won't, but certainly there will
be a feeling and that might be optimism or hope,
or that might just be excitement.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Underpenning all of this the programs called Brave.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Brave very much sits in this mindset of what bold
stands for, which is the thing I must do.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
It's stepping out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It's knowing that when you get that feeling of all
that feels a bit uncomfortable and uncomfortable can be scary.
Uncomfortable can be I feel a bit emotional. Uncomfortable can
be I just feel out of my comfort zone. That
is the sign that that is a thing you must do,
that is your green light to move forward.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I mean I have trouble sitting with myself, Like when
things are really tough, I struggle just.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
To be hmm okay. So there's an uncomfortable feeling that
comes up for you when I'm on my own, right,
So that is literally the green light of that's where
the work needs to happen for you. And that might
be and I'm just spitballing here. I know we didn't
plan this conversation, but you know that might be being
on some kind of retreat where you are alone and
you know you have to be silent for a day
(24:47):
with yourself, Like, does the thought of that make you?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
It's funny because my husband has always done flying, fly
out and worked away, so I've been on my own
a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
But it's sitting with my thoughts.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
I was gonna say, it's a big difference to being
alone being busy, all right, I'm great at being busy,
but being alone and allowing the feelings to come up
and the thoughts to come up and make space for
hold space for them, and that self compassion and practice
which most human beings are pretty awful at and so
the whole program is trying to teach people to recognize
(25:22):
when things are a bit uncomfortable and see them as
such an opportunity if we live our lives avoiding the uncomfortable,
which and this is a huge part of our program.
Your brain is wired to do that. It keeps you safe.
Your brain is literally wired to avoid discomfort. It wants
to be comfortable, so it will send you lots of
signals and science to convince you that you shouldn't do
(25:44):
something that doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Which is why you know, having a tough conversation with
someone is so uncomfortable, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Of course, and your brain will be like, oh, don't
do that, and it will send you panic signals. It
will make you hot and flushy and sweaty in all
types things. And so that neuroscience, which is what we're
talking about there, that is deeply woven into our program.
So we actually have a psychologist and talks to you
every now and then. She wasn't in your module, but
she's in about every other module and talks to you
around what's.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Going on in your brain.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Because that's the hack, right if you can fully understand
Obviously I love my brain, but the same token, I
know it's not always working for me, and by understanding
that I can override it when it starts to try
and stop me from taking brain. You've become aware of that, Yeah,
very aware. Okay, that's like the transformation I think with
this program.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And so when you get that uncomfortable feeling, you now
have wired yourself to go, Okay, I need to take
a step back. I need to have a think about
why I'm feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Wow, I've probably gone to the next That's a great
starting point.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Where I'm now at is.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Obviously because I trust myself in my common sense, right,
But if I get an uncomfortable feeling, it is actually
the cue to me to proceed to go for it.
And that's like the next evolution.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Right. So that's scary, it is.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
But what's what's super fascinating, and it becomes addictive if
I'm honest, right, And a good way is that once
you know this, you don't want to miss out on
the growth that sits on the other side. So when
I get asked to go to something, and you've known
me for quite a number of years, I probably appear
on the outset as an extrovert, but I dislike networking
events deeply. Right. I've had a real resistance to them,
(27:26):
and I've been trying.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
To figure out, like what it is.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I think it's because I don't like small talk and
I like to have bigger conversations and deeper conversations. And
I also don't like people using their titles or their
positions to sort of you know what I mean, I
do that it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Really what I care about. Maybe that's it. I haven't
quite figured it out.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
But if I get invited to something, I get an
instant I don't know, there's no iffing way I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
That kind of as where I go to, Right, That's
what happens to me.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
And then I start thinking of all the excuses, and
I'm great justifying stuff and I'll find a way out
of it. That's pretty much how I operated for a
long period of my career. And then when Elijah and
I built this and we started putting it into practice,
it was hilarious. I rang her one day to say
off and invited to this fundraise open. They want me
to be part of it, and.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
You know what, I'm tired.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I've worked really hard.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
All the excuses came out. She starts laughing at me.
I was like, why are you laughing?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
She's like, you know that that's the thing you must
do now, right, because I just had this huge reaction
and I was wild at her at the moment, but
I literally I had to practice what I'm what I'm doing,
So I went. What happened that night and the people
I met is the reason why I'm doing the CEO
sleepout on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So I'm very much part of that now.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
And I've met some incredible people that have impacted my life,
and the impact has had on me because I went
and did something that I didn't want to do. And
so it's proven to me time and time again that
every time I stretched that a little bit further and
go past that comfortable point, I'm changing. I look back
at who I was two years ago. I'm not the
same person. You're no and I feel it, and it's
(28:54):
because of this. It's because I see those moments of resistance,
and trust me, the fear doesn't go away. Like the
yucky feeling that comes up when you have to do
something you don't want to do, it never disappears. I
just recognize what it is now and see it as oh,
there's growth on the other side of that.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I've got to do it right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Well, I mean, if I'm really honest, I went to
your fundraiser. Yeah, and you know, I've just post back
surgery that sort of thing. I really wasn't that keen
to go. I didn't put two and two together. I
just but you know what, I rang you the next
day and said I got so much out of it,
like the love in the room, just the generosity the
(29:33):
people that went the video, the movie, the stories that
were shared around homelessness and homelessness here in Brisbane. It
blew me away enough to ring you the next day
I say thank you so much. I loved it, and
I did. I got a lot out of it, as
did my friends that came with us. So maybe there
(29:53):
is something in what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, I think so.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
I mean, look, there's a very fine line between looking
after yourself and doing the right thing. Like if you're
really sick, these things happen, right and you have to
prioritize your health and sometimes that means saying no to things. Right,
that's totally fine, But humans know the difference between I'm
saying no because I'm genuine sick or I can't go
and I don't want to. It's when you say I
don't want to, but I could. It's that it's that yuckiness.
(30:18):
You don't know who you're going to meet, all conversations
you're going to have.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But it's not always going to.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Have a great result or have an outcome. But I
guarantee you that this opportunity is in the thing that
you're most afraid of. I mean I was terrified of
doing the podcast. I know you would have been the same. Yeah,
and I don't know. I just took that leap of faith.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
God, I love it, Like honestly, I love doing this
and I feel really blessed because the people that have
said yes and that have come what not in a
million years would have I thought some of the people
would have said yes, that have come on and spoken
and shared some of the most intimate things about their lives,
you know, And it's a blessing in disguise, sometimes, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I mean, fear will cripple you.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Like if we never do the things that we are
nervous about or a fear about, we're not living a
full life, and the fear is always magnified in our
minds because that's because of the brain, right, because the
brain has evolved to protect you from anything that it
deems a threat, and anything it's not comfortable as a threat.
Like if you drive the same way to work every
(31:18):
single day because that's what you've always done for fifteen years,
and then you attempt to do something differently, you're feel
uncomfortable about it because your brain likes patterns.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Because I said, brushing your teeth with your other hand
or standing on one foot. When you do it, it
makes you feel uncomfortable. Yeah, it's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
And your brain rewards you with dopamine when you do
the same thing, right, So it's literally a chemical thing, right.
So it's interesting that people talk about the like I
need to have coffee.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I need to have coffee right in the morning to function.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
I think most of us say that the brain is
wide in a way where, for example, if your routine
was to turn on the coffee pot right and then
make your toast and then come back, the dopamine already
gets released before you drink the coffee. It gets released
when you turn on the coffee pot because it knows
what's coming. Yeah, you have to work really hard to
fight against these immical things that happen in your brain,
(32:06):
which says, do the same thing, do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So why do people find it hard to go to the.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Gym or you know, make those difficult choices, or eat
healthy sometimes and things like that, because our brain will
reward us for doing the bad thing, because that's the
familiar thing for a lot of us. You know, some
of the choices we make. I'm always the best, and
I mean, god, I am. You'll never get this perfect.
I mean, trust me. Sometimes I reach for the wine
when I shouldn't because that feels familiar and sometimes you
need that. But I think just being aware of those
(32:33):
big moments where something feels uncomfortable in leaning into it.
And I think that's the basis of this entire program
that we've built, Brave. And so some of the worlds
that you'll go to might have a moment oh my god,
because they feel so real. You might have a moment
where you're like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm
doing this. That's all part of it. We're kind of
weaving it through all of all of it.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Do you think you stretching yourself and bettering yourself makes
other people uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, that's a really interesting question. Yeah I do. I think. Look,
I'm really lucky.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I think I have a very tight network of friends
I've had for a really long time, and that's a
blessing and kind of like my family.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
But what I have funds.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
I've definitely outgrown other people because I'm not the same
person and some of the conversations you to me, and
I'm pushing myself to sort of want to do better
and challenge myself.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
And I think that's fine. I think that's life, right.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Sometimes you grow in and out, but it's affected relation
like you know, even personal relationships, like partner relationships. I
would not choose the same person now that I might
have chosen a year ago or two years ago, you know,
because I've grown in that way.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And that's challenging sometimes. But on the other.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Side of that is this beautiful reward of feeling very
authentic about who I am.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
And I probably like.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Myself more now than I've ever liked myself, flaws and all,
but that is a very comforting thing back in yourself.
I'm not afraid of what people think of me, not
in an arrogant way. I mean, I think that's that
very to me. Authenticity and empathy have to go hand
in hand. These people who say, oh, I'm just being
authentic and they're actually just being an asshole for people,
(34:09):
right that it's not authenticity.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Authenticity is being yourself, right.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
But the connection I get with you is more important
to me than the rejection that might come from me
saying something that you don't agree with or like.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And that's how I see it.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
So I think, yeah, it's uncomfortable, but it's like life's
for living, and like you know, we've taken some big
leaps to build this program and go out there, but yeah,
I want to have real change in the world and
I can only do that. This is a product that
can be used across the world. It's not just you know,
here in Australia, and that's kind of I.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Think it's it's so exciting healthcare wise seeing it's virtual reality. Yeah,
I can assume that then you would be able to
do tasks that people can work through doing VR.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
So obviously the program that our skill set and background
is leadership, Motion intelligence training, person development. So that's how
we've started this program, and that's the program we've got
this year.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It'll evolve more next year.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But yes, because we are able to create these modules,
we've already been asked by people to say, hey, can
we do something specifically for the workforce that we're in.
And interestingly, healthcare has already started some work in the
VR training space, very technical stuff like I believe there
is a VR where you can learn how to do
tape blood, for example, without actually doing it on a patient.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
So instead of practicing on a patient, you practice in VR.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And so I suppose there's a.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Lot of positive impact, you know, things that come of
not having to do it that way.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
There's pressure lere's nerves for somebody.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Obviously the person who doesn't have to have the need
to put in them absolutely, So you know, I know
that already does exist quite big in the US.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I'm not sure how big a ship it is.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Also in mining, mining is.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Another organization year, so there's certain organizations that are using
VR in that training space. And it's endless, right, and
it's so helpful because VR, you've just done it, you
can stand you were standing in one kind of space.
So despite the fact that you felt like you were
everywhere you're in one small space. So I've actually got
some pharmacy clients who were doing it in their back office.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And that's the beauty is.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
The frontline roles, these roles that don't always have time
suddenly have got the opportunity to get this kind of
development in a very small space of windows, which is great.
But yes, once you're doing so on the platform for Brave,
yes you'll get your leadership personal development. But there is
opportunity for organizations to create bespoke training programs with us.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
This is just a query around like CPD points things
like that in healthcare, would that then come with the
certification that you've completed this module?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I mean I'm not sure in terms of the technical training.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Stuff, yeah, or even leadership.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
I mean, oh with leadership, I mean yeah, like we
do accredit you with our Brave levels of accreditation for
doing the program. Yes, but then obviously depending on what
stuff that you're training further on in there. Yes, But
you know, there's lots of opportunity for I mean, I
guess what I'm saying is is in this opportunities, what
we're looking at now is shifting the mindset of doing
training and development in a virtual world. So really you
(37:00):
think how broad that is, like taking anything that you
would normally do. One thing, I have to point out
that we do offer We do offer it for organizations
and we do a different offering for individuals. It's really
really the psychological safety here is great because you can
really open up, but there also is at the end
of every four modules, so we have brav If you're
in an organization, we provide you with a debriefing kit
(37:22):
to bring everyone together who's done it and then you
all talk about it. So whether you're in Melbourne, Sydney,
Braws and Perth, wherever you are, you could jump on
a virtual call or you could come together as a
group and we give you a facilitator guide of how
to do a debrief, what came up for you, what
questions to ask, what activities to run as a group,
how to look at the challenges in your workforce and
go hang on, what do we learn here and how
(37:42):
could we change the way we're approaching stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
That's been super powerful.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
And people have done it, yeah, and that's probably it's
been massively powerful because as individuals, you've all had the
same experience she had. Experience is one of the most
powerful things you can do. Get people together in a
room and talk about the thing that you all shared together,
and that's why it's so impactful. But also sometimes when
you get groups together, only some people talk. This really
empowers everyone to contribute because you've all had a moment.
(38:10):
For our individuals who take the program who don't do
it as part of an organization, we offer a coaching
option where a coach will debrief you at the end
of every five sessions as well.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
It's interesting you say that about you know, being connected
and people you know participating. I was asked to speak
at a hospital here in Brisbane around tenderness for nurses,
and I thought I was speaking to the nurses. I
didn't realize I was speaking to all the upper echelon
of management.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
It was a shit show right from the get go.
Clearly no one wanted to be there anyway. The highlight
was Sam, my therapy dog, was allowed in. He decided
that there was a fly that he was going to chase,
so he chased that and then realized that there was
a holy of food down the back and then hode
into the food at the back of the Wow, oh God,
(39:01):
I've walked out of there and felt so destroyed. And
when I see that, I think, you know, and I
know that it's not the most popular hospital to work in,
and they're obviously trying to do some things to improve that.
But if you don't have the leadership on board, you're
never going to have everyone on board.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
That's exactly right, And I think that's how we started
this conversation, is that at the end of the day,
and less leaders I mean in that case, to have
the empathy to make space for you you've come and
given your time to talk to them, To have the
empathy to hold space for the fact that you're bringing
your expertise and sharing right and to give you that respect,
and to be bold to push through the fact that
(39:41):
maybe they didn't feel comfortable with what you were talking about, right,
but leaning into it without those skills. If you don't
have those baseline EQ skills, then it's a real hard
task to expect anybody working underneath you to sort of
follow suit and be engaged. And that's I guess the
point that this is all about is unfortunately no one
was taught to EQ training. You look at anyone who's
(40:02):
in these very recent year roles, let's say anywhere from
sort of like you know, forty to six Steve, forty
to seventy.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
They've been working for a long time. They weren't taught
that stuff.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
It wasn't around, right, So we kind of reverse engineering
here because they might have gone through the most advanced
leadership capability training, how to have high negotiation skills, you know,
I mean, how to do complex board presentations, how to
all this kind of stuff. But does that mean that
they know how to be vulnerable and show up? Do
even understand what that means? Do we even know who
(40:29):
they really are? They know what holds them back, what
their limitations are. So this is why it's for everybody,
because I'm finding that most people haven't really had that work.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
No, and I think people are becoming aware of it
and wanting to develop in that area. So I'm really
excited to see what comes from this and where it develops.
And I'm really excited for the healthcare space. I think
it's going to blossom and make safety paramount. I'm going
to sign up and get yes. I can't wait to
(41:01):
do it all now because after seeing that first module,
you know, there's clearly some work I need to do.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
So we all need to do exactly we all need
to do.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But thank you so much for taking the time and
bringing it all in for me to try. I'm going
to go to another module now because I thought it
was so fantastic. I will put on the show notes
the discount code for you guys. Please support this remarkable
business because you know, the more we support M and
her team, as soon as she'll be able to get
into the healthcare space, into nursing, into medicine, like the
(41:33):
sky is the limit with this, and I'm excited that
I know her.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
No, I'm excited to her.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
It's a joy to work on. It's a joy to
see the impact is having. And at the end of
the day, technology is kind of the future. Is like
AI is already, like you know, quite well advanced. So
it's kind of embracing this stuff. And you'd be surprised.
This is not for techy people. I didn't have a clue,
and so obviously we work with these amazing technical experts
to build this stuff. But you don't need to be
(42:01):
ten aweek expert to put did I give you many
instructions to put that on Nah Nah's prerey straight forward.
It was very straightforward, so it's for everybody. So yeah,
I look forward to sharing more information about what we
can offer people, because if your organization is not one
that proactively supports us, then I'd like to think that
individuals can still take the reins on their own personal development.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I love that idea that you've realized that, because not
all businesses are going to do it, But then at
least if you want to grow as a human and
as a person and develop your own leadership skills, you
can absolutely well. Thanks Sam, Thanks Beck, Thanks guys. We'll
catch up with you soon and I'll put all of
those in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
This season.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I am so excited to announce that the podcast is
being supported by Nutritia, which is a global leader in
medical nutrition. They understand the needs of nurses in the
nutrition space and for over one hundred and twenty five
years have provided products to support child health. Some of
Nutritiona's pediatric brands include Neo Kate Junior for children who
(43:03):
have food allergies, and apt to Grow for those fussy eaters.
And those of us who have children know many kids
who go through the phases of definite fussiness. For more
information and resources, visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia
dot com dot au forward slash pediatrics. I just want
to say a huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire
(43:24):
to support nurses is truly appreciated, and they are allowing
me to continue this podcast so that we can all
grow as nurses.
Appochia Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenantus for Nurses.
I suspec Woodbine here this season. I am so excited
to announce that the podcast is being supported by Nutritia,
which is a global leader in medical nutrition. They understand
the needs of nurses in the nutrition space and for
over one hundred and twenty five years have provided products
(00:31):
to support child health. Some of Nutrita's pediatric brands include
Neo Kate Junior for children who have food allergies and
app to Grow for those fussy eaters. And those of
us who have children know many kids who go through
the phases of definite fussiness. For more information and resources,
visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia dot com dot
(00:54):
au forward slash Pediatrics. I just want to say a
huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire to support nurses
is truly appreciated, and they are allowing me to continue
this podcast so that we can all grow as nurses.
This season, we have some amazing speakers in the pediatric
space which I cannot wait to share with you all. Hi,
(01:14):
my name's Beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for nurses.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity
to be. So I hit it and parked it for
nearly four years. We always have free will, We always
get to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hi everyone, thanks for tuning back into tenderness for nurses today.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I have my.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Beautiful friend Emma Hall with me and I have just
experienced her Brave VR BRAVBR program.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah program, yep.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So this is the world's first behavioral and emotional training
using VR and I have to tell you that just
blew me away.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I had a bit of a moment.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
After that because it was quite confronting looking at the
limiting beliefs.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Have you found that with other people? Oh?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Absolutely so obviously So with Brave our leadership program it's
based on which is bold, Resilient, Authentic, Vulnerable, Empathetic. So
there's four modules per each letter. So you did one
of the ones in the BOLD program. And so Bold
is very personal and it's interesting because this is a
leadership program, it's how we've built it. However, this program
that's out this year is very much personal development as well,
(02:27):
and I think at the end of the day, understanding
your fears, your limiting beliefs, what keeps you in denial.
You kind of have to work through that stuff before
you could actually then elevate to take on new concepts.
Because that's the challenge that I found in leadership is
trying to teach people to do have difficult conversations when
they have these deep, limiting beliefs about themselves that they
don't know actually really difficult to make change. So that's
(02:48):
why our early modules can be for a lot of
people a bit confronting. It's perhaps a conversation that you
may not have had before or be aware of, and
then obviously you're doing it in a virtual environment.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It was remarkable. I actually felt like I was for
a start, but I think that you really nailed the
limiting beliefs. How did you come about those? Is that
through just teaching leadership? I mean, how did you work those?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
So obviously, So Eliza, who's the other one of the
the co founders, and I have worked together for a
couple of years previously doing culture transformations and leadership training.
So obviously this is topics that we've taught for some time.
But we do a lot of work and along with
behavioral psychologists to sort of validate the information as well.
So yes, it's why because it's universal content. Like, at
the end of the day, this is applicable to everybody,
(03:40):
for humans, right, there isn't a human being that would
see the options to select in that and not actually
have one that sixt them. These are the most common
beliefs that are out there, and these are the most
common limiting beliefs that are out there.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Because seriously, I could have picked them all. I was like,
which one's the most pertinent to me?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
You really nailed it.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So when people do experience that, you find like, I've
got a bit emotional because I did. I found it
a little bit confronting. Is that what the feedback is?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I mean, certainly in those early modules, yes, So as
we move into resilience, we're teaching sort of more frameworks
so that probably have slightly less of that very deep
personal component.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But then we get into authenticity and vulnerability and we
go a.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Bit back to those those topics that we're sort of
building you through the program.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah. I think actually what's interesting.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Is I mean you could sit in a room and
talk about limiting beliefs or fears and perhaps not have
quite the same reaction a lot of that is because
of the mode that we use, which is virtual reality.
And so when you're in virtual reality, your brain doesn't
actually differentiate between what's real and what's not.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
So that's a big component of it.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
And obviously in this case, to explain to listeners, you're
actually in a bottom of a dark canyon and you
have to climb out of the canyon and go through
the different layers learning how to break your limiting beliefs.
And so it's very cleverly allies as our creative lead
that you know, clever by design in terms, it's all storytelling.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So there's a reason it's dark in there.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
It's a reason you have a torch, is the reason
you can hear the sounds you hear. But when you're
immersed in it, statistically you learn four times faster and
immersive environment, is that right, Yeah, so it's really Yeah,
it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Because I felt like I was there at the bottom
of the canyon. Yes, and then you know, getting to
that middle layer and then breaking through the limiting beliefs
and being able to see the most It was amazing
the view, but I felt like I was on top
of that mountain. Yeah, what gave you the idea for.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
This for the whole program. Oh gosh, okay.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
So obviously, as I mentioned before, so Brave as a
leadership program that we came up with a couple of
years ago at mjoy So, which is my consultancy, which
we spoke about.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
We did Enjoy previously.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
So was that version for a very long time, and
Culture Left started Enjoy for four or five years, and
then a few years ago created Brave. And the reason
we created Brave was because we were going into organizations
and talking a lot to leaders and putting in new.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Systems and fancy frameworks.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And what I was noticing was the people I was
talking to though, the way they spoke to their colleagues,
the way they spoke to their staff, their mindset around
leadership was quite archaic and not willing to budge, like
really rigid and not willing to have any conversations beyond surface.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And I got to a point where I thought, but
hang on.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Putting all this expensive systems and fun things in will
not work if you're not able to speak to your
people and relate to your people in a different way.
So there was a real absolute pivot point where we
thought about like what's our purpose, what are we trying
to achieve? And we want to have more brave leaders
in the world because people need to enjoy coming to work, right,
there's too many people that it's a lot going on
for people.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
If you come to work, you still leave your.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Organization primarily because of your leader.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You still will.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
There'll be money factors and other things, but primarily it
will be if you've got a poor leader. That's a
really strong reason for people to leave organizations. So, knowing
that we pivoted to this Brave program where we did
leadership workshops coaching. We still do that. However, obviously you
can't scale when you have that kind of operation. So
Eliza and I were doing a lot of workshops and
that was great, but we're only two people. And then
(07:05):
it happened to be a particular There's two things that happened. One,
we've partnered with Measure for a while supporting an internal program,
and we got familiar with some of their equipment. And
Eliza and I are very much our mindsets are we
love experiential learning. We don't do boring basically, right, We're
always looking to make something more exciting. And then one
day she rang me and said, hey, have you seen
that program Limitless with Chris Hemsworth.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Did you see fabulous?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Isn't it fab And I was like no, and she said,
I think you should take a look at it. So
I took a look at it and we both got
on the phone and we were like, oh my god,
use a virtual reality headset to walk across a bridge
in Sydney right to simulate fear and stress in his body,
and they measured it and all that, and we both
went that is an incredible way to create emotion and
(07:49):
feeling in people. So if we can't be with you
physically like in our sessions, our goal is that you
will feel really uncomfortable, really engaged, really emotionally. We want
you to go through the emotions because that means it's
really sinking in. So how do we do that without
us being available? And we saw that you could actually
replicate that using virtual reality and so then I got
kind of brave and decided to pick up the phone
(08:09):
and ring the director of the company who built the
VR in that program, and he was in Sydney, Jamie,
who is our other co founders. There's three of us
for Bravia, and we flew to Sydney, we met up,
we talked, and he has had a lot of experience building,
Like you've seen the quality.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Of graphics and amazing.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So his team built extraordinary graphics and we knew that
the combination of that and the program that we wanted
to do coming together would be amazing. And you know,
VA has been used a lot in training over the
last of ten years or so, so very much that
sort of scenario based, you know, technical training, but as
far as we're aware, no one's certainly done this leadership
(08:47):
emotional intelligence training, very storytelling, and that's why all of
our modules are in these incredible worlds that we put
you in, because one, it's very engaging.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It's like, did you know a third of the world
of gamers a third?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
A third?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And I mean, look, this isn't gaming as such, but.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
It definitely has that you're in there for fifteen minutes,
there's no fifteen fifteen minutes you're in there.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
What did it feel like, oh blink of an eye?
Really if just I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Know, I sort of lost losttra a time track of time.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
So that point is a really critical one and actually
talking about it to a client yesterday, there are not
many scenarios in your life where you are completely not distracted,
not many, right, But when you're in VR, there are
absolutely no distractions because you can't see anything but the
world that you're in.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, and so there's.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
No phone distractions, there's no even you know, in this room,
we're talking to each other, but there are lights, ort
a of things moving, there's a mirror, right, there's things
that could distract you, there's nothing. This is why you
learn faster, because your full attention is focused on what's
happening in front of you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I was completely engrossed in the moment, and I was
in that canyon, yeah, and I was looking at those
limiting beliefs and I was crushing those limiting beliefs and
actually it felt good to do that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And so even though I felt emotional because it's it
is confronting when you've nailed some of your limiting beliefs
that come out of the rock. I mean, I don't
know about you, guys, but I find it confronting because
one of the things I try to do is self
growth and be insightful. And so you know, when you
do see those and there are things that you have
(10:23):
acknowledged and trying to work on it does sort of
hitch slappy in the face, Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I think that's why A big element of why VR
is such a great mode to do some of this
work in is the psychological safety. Now, obviously we're friends
and I was around, but typically you do this completely
solo and for a lot of people to sit in
a room, unless you've built deep trust with a therapist
or a counselor or a coach, you're probably not going
to go into a room and talk about those things
(10:49):
quite openly. Whereas in there there's that psychological safety to
be able to sometimes touch on those topics that can
be a bit sensitive.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
But even if you are in a relationship with a
psychologist's counselor whatever it may be, that takes time to
build up that relationship to a point where you are
willing to share your innermost feelings. It doesn't just happen overnight,
does it. No?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Is it available now? Yes?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
So we launched Bravery R in much of this year,
So it's been more only a couple of months that
we've sort of been up and running, but we've had
just amazing feedback from people.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So similar to yourself.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
I think what blows me away every time as I
put someone in a heads there and they come out
and they're just like because it's so different, you know,
so different, And so.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Particularly for organized I talk on both fronts.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
So from an organization perspective, why this is really working
and why people picking it up is because we've got
huge challenges around dispersed workforces. No one works in the
same place at the same time, so everyone's kind of
geographically dispersed, so consistent training is really difficult to do.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
The second point is around cost, right.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
So having been in a GM role for culture and leadership,
the first thing to go on budgets is usually leadership
or personal development, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And so it's like, how do we make something.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
More affordable that we don't have to cut it out
because it's such critical stuff that usually you only get
access to when you get very senior, by which most
of your bad habits are quite well formed, absolutely right,
and so we really need to get people a lot
younger and a lot more earlier in their careers to
understand the stuff to shape who they are as leaders.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We've got a huge rise in gen z right.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
In the workforce that come twenty thirty, I think we're
at about thirty percent of the workforce will be gen z.
It doesn't really cut the mustard sitting and boring meeting
rooms and you know, and whole day workshops.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I'm still a fan. I still do them.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I think you're bringing people together is great. However, logistically
that's hard. Costwise that's hard. Impact on bottom line and
productivity is hard. Then the biggest problem is you're pumped
and excited on the day and then you leave and
you go back to exactly the same way you are.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Interesting, you said that I went down to a big
industry conference on Sunday down the Gold Coast and I
went down, you know, to listen to all the regulatory
changes that are happening at the moment in the asthetic
space in nursing, pin queens on health and I've went
in hoping to learn something new, learned a couple of things,
(13:04):
but walked out feeling really disappointed. Huge amount of dollars later.
And I also thought that the people that probably needed
to hear this were the people that hadn't paid the money,
yeah to be there, do you know what I mean? Yeah,
And it just fell a little bit flat. But then
last night I went to an advanced training course and
(13:25):
it was really interactive and I loved it because the
guest speaker was saying, I want you to think outside
the square. I don't want you just to listen to
what everyone tells you. Start thinking differently. Yeah, and that's
what I think this shows. You know, you've got to
don't listen toward all the KOLs or everyone says, start
listening to your internal dialogue a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
And I felt like I was doing that in that VR.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's funny as you say it like that.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Like the interactive, engaging part of it is very important
for people like our attention spans assured than they've ever
been out with stress and what everything else is going on.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
So to cut through all that noise, it has to
feel really.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Engaging all your senses, so visually you know what you hear,
what you feel. We miss what you feel so much
in training and so that's a huge element of what
we do. And the second point is around that taking
ownership yourself. So I think that we really try and
weave this through all of our stuff, and in the day,
we would love organizations to put this stuff through this right,
(14:23):
I think that's the right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Thing to do.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But there'll be plenty of organizations that don't do any
of this kind of stuff with their people, right. And
so the second part of my story is, yes, we're
working with organizations because this is solving a challenge that
organizations have around leadership. How do we have a cost effective,
impactful This program runs over nine months and it will
continue to grow year and year. In terms of content,
it will be very tailored. We can really customize it.
(14:46):
But personally as well as an individual, you've got to
take accountability for your own personal development as well, Like
relying on that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Coming from an organization is not always going to happen.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So we've created this that will also that is now
it will be in the next two weeks available for
individuals as well to have a headset with the program
loaded on it and do their personal development. And if
you look at that cost comparison to I guess getting
an external coach, you know it means a much more
affordable option. But also it's very engaging and it's fifteen
(15:15):
minutes of your time.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So guys, M's been fantastic and has offered us a
discount code for you and it'll be in the show
notes for you to try.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Basically get yourself, so you get yourself a Brave VR
kit and the kit comes with the headsets a metaquest
three is headset which you get to keep, so it's yours.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So then you can just keep adding out to the module.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Yeah, so then and you will give you access in
this offer to our first program that's out this year, Core,
which is twenty modules. So twenty modules. They take fifteen
minutes each and you do them over. We have a
two week cycle that we recommend.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And the reason we do.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
That is because you'll do the module, but it doesn't
end there. When you come out, you need to log
onto a journal and this is such a critical part
of it because yes, that's really engaging, but we now
need you to take what you just did, reflect on it,
and we ask you some questions, and we get you
to then think about how some in your case, the
limiting belief one that you just did, how that might
be affecting your life and work.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
How could you make some changes.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
We also give you some recommended books, videos, podcasts to
listen to that really embed the stuff that we're talking about.
And then you come back and do the next one
in two weeks, so it's like minimal time. It's probably
going to take you a maximum of thirty minutes every fortnight,
but that's nine months of twenty different topics that your
work through.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
See.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I would do that yeah, easy, Yeah, I mean I
love my self help books and things like that. But
in fifteen minutes I got more out of doing that
into the canyon and looking at my self limiting beliefs.
Then I probably would sit in for two hours. Except
Gible matter you and I absolutely loved hearing him speak.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
It was amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's interesting guys.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Em and I went down to hear Gible Mattes speak
down the Gold Coast and we both came away with
two very different points that we took away with us.
And I found that really interesting that what really with
you wasn't what resonated with me. And I found that
quite a remarkable sort of take home that you know,
what you go in and you're you know, maybe you're
(17:15):
looking for something or totally wanting to find it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
They're looking to attach it to maybe a personal thing
that you're going through.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
You can say you go in there with already challenges
or you know, things that are going on for yourself
and when someone offers some advice that you can link
to that and suddenly it has a much deeper impact
for you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Initially, these are all about self growth. The ones that
are going to come out for individuals.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
So basically the program that's out this year, it's called
Brave Leadership, but it's very leadership of self. So we've
got CEOs doing it at the moment, and we've got
people who've never led before. Okay, because the program so bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetic,
they are quite personal.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
There are frameworks and they're particularly in resilience.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
We set you up with some really amazing you'll end
up being an Olympic sports person and one.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Of them, in my heart, I've always been mine where
you go.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So so there's some really engaging programs and their resilience framework.
But yes, this program this year is really for people.
It's called Foundational Core. It's the foundations that you need,
So whether that's for your own personal development as an individual,
having confidence, knowing who you are, getting really connected to,
how to be vulnerable, how to show.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Up empathetically, it's a great program for that.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
And then going into twenty twenty six, we'll start releasing
some more of our elective modules, a bit more tailored
to different levels of leadership. So this program in particular
is very suitable for anyone to do and you can
go back and do it again. So we actually track
your results in the back end as well, so as
everything that you selected when you're in that program. So
there's a quiz you would have done in there, So
(18:45):
we're testing your knowledge and understanding of what's going on.
We're also so brilliant, but we're also testing your engagement
levels with the program, and so at the moment, we
measure engagement by how you interact with the activities we
ask you to do. But the beautiful thing around technology
and the speed it's moving is soon we will be
able to use eye tracking reckition to see how your
(19:06):
brain is reacting to the content. Yeah, so it's just
so we're able to track a lot of this stuff
as well, so you'll actually be able to look at
your own results and see where am I doing well,
where am I not?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What kind of impact is it is having.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So for an individual talking about your listeners, Yeah, it's
basically a whole year to years access to it.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
This would be.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Great for nurses that are a wanting to learn more
about themselves, wanting to work in a group, but also
wanting to develop leadership skills within that group setting. Yeah,
or maybe they have aspirations of you know, being clinical
nurs consultant or a numb or something. Further, this is
a really great foundation for nurses or any health professional.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, absolutely, so if you're in a leadership role.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
If you're not in a leadership role, and you might
want to be, but even just to build better relationships
with people like and I mean in a role like nursing,
it's all about relationship absolutely. And I know from hearing
some of your podcasts and some of the challenges that
can come with nursing, and it's like, well, how do
I work even better with those people that I might
find a bit difficult to work with, a bit more
challenging to work with. And that is a real from
within stuff. You know, if I think about resilience, we
(20:13):
do a lot of work around circle of control and
things like that, but in a super engaging way, stuff
you'll never forget.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
So what's a circle of control?
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Circle and control that Stephen Cove's model and basically the
circuit control is looking at what's in your circle of control,
what can you actually control back in your day to day,
looking at what's in your circle of.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Influence, what do you have influence over, and then.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
What's not in your control and things outside of your control.
And as human beings, we spend an extraordinary large amount
of energy on things that we don't have any control over,
which is what makes us anxious, totally causes mass anxiety,
slows us down, affects our health. And so what we
aim to teach you and that program is his model,
but in a very engaging way that sometimes just will
(20:54):
connect better to teach you about what actually happens when
you let go a bit and just focus on the
things you actually have control over, like what other people
think of you. You don't have any control over us
of your business right, and your people spend.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So much time.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
I mean, god, I was a shock of for that,
and there are a lot of people, but you know,
even go back to COVID times, I think it became
It's been around for a very long time, but it
became kind of resurfaced during COVID because people were worrying
about stuff that they had no control over. Unfortunately, lockdowns
nothing that any of us could have done any that, right, Yeah,
we were all super stressed about it. And so it's
helping you shift your mindset into the things that actually
(21:30):
you do have control over, and that's your feelings, your actions,
your behaviors, your responses, your own health, things like that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Stuff you've got control over.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
So really, it's not being selfish to look after yourself. No,
God no, because if you look after yourself, then you
can help look after others.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, it's just it's really about where you're putting your energy.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
And when people sort of get burnt out and burnout,
it's a big thing.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
At the moment.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Right, there's obviously somethings you can control and you can't.
And I guarantee for a lot of people, and especially
if if you do this module.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And I'll let you do it when it comes out
and you have a look at it, is what you'll.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Be surprised at is how, even though you don't know
it subconsciously, you're spending a lot of energy on things
that aren't properly in your control. I know I do,
and that's contributing to your being tied, to being burnt out,
to your health all these kind of things that contributes
to it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So it's a mastery that most people don't have.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
But I think what's interesting is I remember sitting in
a training session years ago and learning about the circle
of control. I liked it because I have an interest
in this stuff, right, Oh yeah, like taking control of
my life and how do I make laugh a little
easyer for myself? But I think what we have tried
to do is we're not reinventing the wheel here, right.
These are not topics and subjects that haven't been explored before,
(22:41):
but we're delivering them in a way that touches you differently, right,
that you feel something when you learn about it. I
could read a book around that model. Would I have
an emotional reaction to reading it? Probably not? When you
do it in the headset where we take you to
it's a very beautiful module that one you'll have an
emotional reaction.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Because I mean I did not expect to have the reaction.
You know, I could fil myself welling up when I saw,
you know, the limiting beliefs, but it wasn't just seeing that,
it was the environment I was in.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
It was actually really beautiful exactly right. So the storytellings.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Literally, our production meetings they kind of run a bit
like a pixel movie.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It is so much that goes into it.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
We have Eliza leads a creative along with Josh does
it SFX, and we've amazing developers and all of it matters.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Every little mine should detail in.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
There is been thought through the music that takes you through,
You measure when you're at a movie and you have
these moments, right.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
So all of that is part of it. Look, they're
not all going to make you cry.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
I can promise you that like some of them will
trigger emotions in people, some won't, but certainly there will
be a feeling and that might be optimism or hope,
or that might just be excitement.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Underpenning all of this the programs called Brave.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Brave very much sits in this mindset of what bold
stands for, which is the thing I must do.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
It's stepping out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It's knowing that when you get that feeling of all
that feels a bit uncomfortable and uncomfortable can be scary.
Uncomfortable can be I feel a bit emotional. Uncomfortable can
be I just feel out of my comfort zone. That
is the sign that that is a thing you must do,
that is your green light to move forward.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I mean I have trouble sitting with myself, Like when
things are really tough, I struggle just.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
To be hmm okay. So there's an uncomfortable feeling that
comes up for you when I'm on my own, right,
So that is literally the green light of that's where
the work needs to happen for you. And that might
be and I'm just spitballing here. I know we didn't
plan this conversation, but you know that might be being
on some kind of retreat where you are alone and
you know you have to be silent for a day
(24:47):
with yourself, Like, does the thought of that make you?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
It's funny because my husband has always done flying, fly
out and worked away, so I've been on my own
a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
But it's sitting with my thoughts.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
I was gonna say, it's a big difference to being
alone being busy, all right, I'm great at being busy,
but being alone and allowing the feelings to come up
and the thoughts to come up and make space for
hold space for them, and that self compassion and practice
which most human beings are pretty awful at and so
the whole program is trying to teach people to recognize
(25:22):
when things are a bit uncomfortable and see them as
such an opportunity if we live our lives avoiding the uncomfortable,
which and this is a huge part of our program.
Your brain is wired to do that. It keeps you safe.
Your brain is literally wired to avoid discomfort. It wants
to be comfortable, so it will send you lots of
signals and science to convince you that you shouldn't do
(25:44):
something that doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Which is why you know, having a tough conversation with
someone is so uncomfortable, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Of course, and your brain will be like, oh, don't
do that, and it will send you panic signals. It
will make you hot and flushy and sweaty in all
types things. And so that neuroscience, which is what we're
talking about there, that is deeply woven into our program.
So we actually have a psychologist and talks to you
every now and then. She wasn't in your module, but
she's in about every other module and talks to you
around what's.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Going on in your brain.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Because that's the hack, right if you can fully understand
Obviously I love my brain, but the same token, I
know it's not always working for me, and by understanding
that I can override it when it starts to try
and stop me from taking brain. You've become aware of that, Yeah,
very aware. Okay, that's like the transformation I think with
this program.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And so when you get that uncomfortable feeling, you now
have wired yourself to go, Okay, I need to take
a step back. I need to have a think about
why I'm feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Wow, I've probably gone to the next That's a great
starting point.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Where I'm now at is.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Obviously because I trust myself in my common sense, right,
But if I get an uncomfortable feeling, it is actually
the cue to me to proceed to go for it.
And that's like the next evolution.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Right. So that's scary, it is.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
But what's what's super fascinating, and it becomes addictive if
I'm honest, right, And a good way is that once
you know this, you don't want to miss out on
the growth that sits on the other side. So when
I get asked to go to something, and you've known
me for quite a number of years, I probably appear
on the outset as an extrovert, but I dislike networking
events deeply. Right. I've had a real resistance to them,
(27:26):
and I've been trying.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
To figure out, like what it is.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I think it's because I don't like small talk and
I like to have bigger conversations and deeper conversations. And
I also don't like people using their titles or their
positions to sort of you know what I mean, I
do that it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Really what I care about. Maybe that's it. I haven't
quite figured it out.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
But if I get invited to something, I get an
instant I don't know, there's no iffing way I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
That kind of as where I go to, Right, That's
what happens to me.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
And then I start thinking of all the excuses, and
I'm great justifying stuff and I'll find a way out
of it. That's pretty much how I operated for a
long period of my career. And then when Elijah and
I built this and we started putting it into practice,
it was hilarious. I rang her one day to say
off and invited to this fundraise open. They want me
to be part of it, and.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
You know what, I'm tired.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I've worked really hard.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
All the excuses came out. She starts laughing at me.
I was like, why are you laughing?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
She's like, you know that that's the thing you must
do now, right, because I just had this huge reaction
and I was wild at her at the moment, but
I literally I had to practice what I'm what I'm doing,
So I went. What happened that night and the people
I met is the reason why I'm doing the CEO
sleepout on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So I'm very much part of that now.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
And I've met some incredible people that have impacted my life,
and the impact has had on me because I went
and did something that I didn't want to do. And
so it's proven to me time and time again that
every time I stretched that a little bit further and
go past that comfortable point, I'm changing. I look back
at who I was two years ago. I'm not the
same person. You're no and I feel it, and it's
(28:54):
because of this. It's because I see those moments of resistance,
and trust me, the fear doesn't go away. Like the
yucky feeling that comes up when you have to do
something you don't want to do, it never disappears. I
just recognize what it is now and see it as oh,
there's growth on the other side of that.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I've got to do it right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Well, I mean, if I'm really honest, I went to
your fundraiser. Yeah, and you know, I've just post back
surgery that sort of thing. I really wasn't that keen
to go. I didn't put two and two together. I
just but you know what, I rang you the next
day and said I got so much out of it,
like the love in the room, just the generosity the
(29:33):
people that went the video, the movie, the stories that
were shared around homelessness and homelessness here in Brisbane. It
blew me away enough to ring you the next day
I say thank you so much. I loved it, and
I did. I got a lot out of it, as
did my friends that came with us. So maybe there
(29:53):
is something in what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, I think so.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
I mean, look, there's a very fine line between looking
after yourself and doing the right thing. Like if you're
really sick, these things happen, right and you have to
prioritize your health and sometimes that means saying no to things. Right,
that's totally fine, But humans know the difference between I'm
saying no because I'm genuine sick or I can't go
and I don't want to. It's when you say I
don't want to, but I could. It's that it's that yuckiness.
(30:18):
You don't know who you're going to meet, all conversations
you're going to have.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But it's not always going to.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Have a great result or have an outcome. But I
guarantee you that this opportunity is in the thing that
you're most afraid of. I mean I was terrified of
doing the podcast. I know you would have been the same. Yeah,
and I don't know. I just took that leap of faith.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
God, I love it, Like honestly, I love doing this
and I feel really blessed because the people that have
said yes and that have come what not in a
million years would have I thought some of the people
would have said yes, that have come on and spoken
and shared some of the most intimate things about their lives,
you know, And it's a blessing in disguise, sometimes, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I mean, fear will cripple you.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Like if we never do the things that we are
nervous about or a fear about, we're not living a
full life, and the fear is always magnified in our
minds because that's because of the brain, right, because the
brain has evolved to protect you from anything that it
deems a threat, and anything it's not comfortable as a threat.
Like if you drive the same way to work every
(31:18):
single day because that's what you've always done for fifteen years,
and then you attempt to do something differently, you're feel
uncomfortable about it because your brain likes patterns.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Because I said, brushing your teeth with your other hand
or standing on one foot. When you do it, it
makes you feel uncomfortable. Yeah, it's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
And your brain rewards you with dopamine when you do
the same thing, right, So it's literally a chemical thing, right.
So it's interesting that people talk about the like I
need to have coffee.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I need to have coffee right in the morning to function.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
I think most of us say that the brain is
wide in a way where, for example, if your routine
was to turn on the coffee pot right and then
make your toast and then come back, the dopamine already
gets released before you drink the coffee. It gets released
when you turn on the coffee pot because it knows
what's coming. Yeah, you have to work really hard to
fight against these immical things that happen in your brain,
(32:06):
which says, do the same thing, do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So why do people find it hard to go to the.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Gym or you know, make those difficult choices, or eat
healthy sometimes and things like that, because our brain will
reward us for doing the bad thing, because that's the
familiar thing for a lot of us. You know, some
of the choices we make. I'm always the best, and
I mean, god, I am. You'll never get this perfect.
I mean, trust me. Sometimes I reach for the wine
when I shouldn't because that feels familiar and sometimes you
need that. But I think just being aware of those
(32:33):
big moments where something feels uncomfortable in leaning into it.
And I think that's the basis of this entire program
that we've built, Brave. And so some of the worlds
that you'll go to might have a moment oh my god,
because they feel so real. You might have a moment
where you're like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm
doing this. That's all part of it. We're kind of
weaving it through all of all of it.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Do you think you stretching yourself and bettering yourself makes
other people uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, that's a really interesting question. Yeah I do. I think. Look,
I'm really lucky.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I think I have a very tight network of friends
I've had for a really long time, and that's a
blessing and kind of like my family.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
But what I have funds.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
I've definitely outgrown other people because I'm not the same
person and some of the conversations you to me, and
I'm pushing myself to sort of want to do better
and challenge myself.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
And I think that's fine. I think that's life, right.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Sometimes you grow in and out, but it's affected relation
like you know, even personal relationships, like partner relationships. I
would not choose the same person now that I might
have chosen a year ago or two years ago, you know,
because I've grown in that way.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And that's challenging sometimes. But on the other.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Side of that is this beautiful reward of feeling very
authentic about who I am.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
And I probably like.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Myself more now than I've ever liked myself, flaws and all,
but that is a very comforting thing back in yourself.
I'm not afraid of what people think of me, not
in an arrogant way. I mean, I think that's that
very to me. Authenticity and empathy have to go hand
in hand. These people who say, oh, I'm just being
authentic and they're actually just being an asshole for people,
(34:09):
right that it's not authenticity.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Authenticity is being yourself, right.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
But the connection I get with you is more important
to me than the rejection that might come from me
saying something that you don't agree with or like.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And that's how I see it.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
So I think, yeah, it's uncomfortable, but it's like life's
for living, and like you know, we've taken some big
leaps to build this program and go out there, but yeah,
I want to have real change in the world and
I can only do that. This is a product that
can be used across the world. It's not just you know,
here in Australia, and that's kind of I.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Think it's it's so exciting healthcare wise seeing it's virtual reality. Yeah,
I can assume that then you would be able to
do tasks that people can work through doing VR.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
So obviously the program that our skill set and background
is leadership, Motion intelligence training, person development. So that's how
we've started this program, and that's the program we've got
this year.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It'll evolve more next year.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But yes, because we are able to create these modules,
we've already been asked by people to say, hey, can
we do something specifically for the workforce that we're in.
And interestingly, healthcare has already started some work in the
VR training space, very technical stuff like I believe there
is a VR where you can learn how to do
tape blood, for example, without actually doing it on a patient.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
So instead of practicing on a patient, you practice in VR.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And so I suppose there's a.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Lot of positive impact, you know, things that come of
not having to do it that way.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
There's pressure lere's nerves for somebody.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Obviously the person who doesn't have to have the need
to put in them absolutely, So you know, I know
that already does exist quite big in the US.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I'm not sure how big a ship it is.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Also in mining, mining is.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Another organization year, so there's certain organizations that are using
VR in that training space. And it's endless, right, and
it's so helpful because VR, you've just done it, you
can stand you were standing in one kind of space.
So despite the fact that you felt like you were
everywhere you're in one small space. So I've actually got
some pharmacy clients who were doing it in their back office.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And that's the beauty is.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
The frontline roles, these roles that don't always have time
suddenly have got the opportunity to get this kind of
development in a very small space of windows, which is great.
But yes, once you're doing so on the platform for Brave,
yes you'll get your leadership personal development. But there is
opportunity for organizations to create bespoke training programs with us.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
This is just a query around like CPD points things
like that in healthcare, would that then come with the
certification that you've completed this module?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I mean I'm not sure in terms of the technical training.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Stuff, yeah, or even leadership.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
I mean, oh with leadership, I mean yeah, like we
do accredit you with our Brave levels of accreditation for
doing the program. Yes, but then obviously depending on what
stuff that you're training further on in there. Yes, But
you know, there's lots of opportunity for I mean, I
guess what I'm saying is is in this opportunities, what
we're looking at now is shifting the mindset of doing
training and development in a virtual world. So really you
(37:00):
think how broad that is, like taking anything that you
would normally do. One thing, I have to point out
that we do offer We do offer it for organizations
and we do a different offering for individuals. It's really
really the psychological safety here is great because you can
really open up, but there also is at the end
of every four modules, so we have brav If you're
in an organization, we provide you with a debriefing kit
(37:22):
to bring everyone together who's done it and then you
all talk about it. So whether you're in Melbourne, Sydney,
Braws and Perth, wherever you are, you could jump on
a virtual call or you could come together as a
group and we give you a facilitator guide of how
to do a debrief, what came up for you, what
questions to ask, what activities to run as a group,
how to look at the challenges in your workforce and
go hang on, what do we learn here and how
(37:42):
could we change the way we're approaching stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
That's been super powerful.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
And people have done it, yeah, and that's probably it's
been massively powerful because as individuals, you've all had the
same experience she had. Experience is one of the most
powerful things you can do. Get people together in a
room and talk about the thing that you all shared together,
and that's why it's so impactful. But also sometimes when
you get groups together, only some people talk. This really
empowers everyone to contribute because you've all had a moment.
(38:10):
For our individuals who take the program who don't do
it as part of an organization, we offer a coaching
option where a coach will debrief you at the end
of every five sessions as well.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
It's interesting you say that about you know, being connected
and people you know participating. I was asked to speak
at a hospital here in Brisbane around tenderness for nurses,
and I thought I was speaking to the nurses. I
didn't realize I was speaking to all the upper echelon
of management.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
It was a shit show right from the get go.
Clearly no one wanted to be there anyway. The highlight
was Sam, my therapy dog, was allowed in. He decided
that there was a fly that he was going to chase,
so he chased that and then realized that there was
a holy of food down the back and then hode
into the food at the back of the Wow, oh God,
(39:01):
I've walked out of there and felt so destroyed. And
when I see that, I think, you know, and I
know that it's not the most popular hospital to work in,
and they're obviously trying to do some things to improve that.
But if you don't have the leadership on board, you're
never going to have everyone on board.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
That's exactly right, And I think that's how we started
this conversation, is that at the end of the day,
and less leaders I mean in that case, to have
the empathy to make space for you you've come and
given your time to talk to them, To have the
empathy to hold space for the fact that you're bringing
your expertise and sharing right and to give you that respect,
and to be bold to push through the fact that
(39:41):
maybe they didn't feel comfortable with what you were talking about, right,
but leaning into it without those skills. If you don't
have those baseline EQ skills, then it's a real hard
task to expect anybody working underneath you to sort of
follow suit and be engaged. And that's I guess the
point that this is all about is unfortunately no one
was taught to EQ training. You look at anyone who's
(40:02):
in these very recent year roles, let's say anywhere from
sort of like you know, forty to six Steve, forty
to seventy.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
They've been working for a long time. They weren't taught
that stuff.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
It wasn't around, right, So we kind of reverse engineering
here because they might have gone through the most advanced
leadership capability training, how to have high negotiation skills, you know,
I mean, how to do complex board presentations, how to
all this kind of stuff. But does that mean that
they know how to be vulnerable and show up? Do
even understand what that means? Do we even know who
(40:29):
they really are? They know what holds them back, what
their limitations are. So this is why it's for everybody,
because I'm finding that most people haven't really had that work.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
No, and I think people are becoming aware of it
and wanting to develop in that area. So I'm really
excited to see what comes from this and where it develops.
And I'm really excited for the healthcare space. I think
it's going to blossom and make safety paramount. I'm going
to sign up and get yes. I can't wait to
(41:01):
do it all now because after seeing that first module,
you know, there's clearly some work I need to do.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
So we all need to do exactly we all need
to do.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But thank you so much for taking the time and
bringing it all in for me to try. I'm going
to go to another module now because I thought it
was so fantastic. I will put on the show notes
the discount code for you guys. Please support this remarkable
business because you know, the more we support M and
her team, as soon as she'll be able to get
into the healthcare space, into nursing, into medicine, like the
(41:33):
sky is the limit with this, and I'm excited that
I know her.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
No, I'm excited to her.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
It's a joy to work on. It's a joy to
see the impact is having. And at the end of
the day, technology is kind of the future. Is like
AI is already, like you know, quite well advanced. So
it's kind of embracing this stuff. And you'd be surprised.
This is not for techy people. I didn't have a clue,
and so obviously we work with these amazing technical experts
to build this stuff. But you don't need to be
(42:01):
ten aweek expert to put did I give you many
instructions to put that on Nah Nah's prerey straight forward.
It was very straightforward, so it's for everybody. So yeah,
I look forward to sharing more information about what we
can offer people, because if your organization is not one
that proactively supports us, then I'd like to think that
individuals can still take the reins on their own personal development.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I love that idea that you've realized that, because not
all businesses are going to do it, But then at
least if you want to grow as a human and
as a person and develop your own leadership skills, you
can absolutely well. Thanks Sam, Thanks Beck, Thanks guys. We'll
catch up with you soon and I'll put all of
those in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
This season.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I am so excited to announce that the podcast is
being supported by Nutritia, which is a global leader in
medical nutrition. They understand the needs of nurses in the
nutrition space and for over one hundred and twenty five
years have provided products to support child health. Some of
Nutritiona's pediatric brands include Neo Kate Junior for children who
(43:03):
have food allergies, and apt to Grow for those fussy eaters.
And those of us who have children know many kids
who go through the phases of definite fussiness. For more
information and resources, visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia
dot com dot au forward slash pediatrics. I just want
to say a huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire
(43:24):
to support nurses is truly appreciated, and they are allowing
me to continue this podcast so that we can all
grow as nurses.
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