January 19, 2025 • 40 mins
Today I chat with the remarkable Geri. Geri took time out of her very busy schedule to chat about her role in assisting asylum seekers.
We discuss Geri’s background working within alcohol and other drug rehabilitation, her assisting ex-offenders returning to work and society and her role with these men and women.
Most importantly we discuss how Geri cares for herself in roles that require huge empathy, no bias and at times can be absolutely heart breaking.
I learnt so much during this recording.
It changed how I look at our housing crisis and the impact it has on so many.
Kindness costs us nothing, however, for many of us in healthcare, and who care for others, boundaries are important and self care is paramount.
Enjoy!
Bek x
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/tendernessnurses
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apolge Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nelly
four years. We always have free will, We always get
to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome back to Timinus Nurses twenty twenty five. We have
got some amazing speakers and guests coming up this year,
and I've spent the day organizing those new guest speakers.
So there's going to be some very varied people coming
into chat from Donate Live. We've got Jerry this morning,
(00:47):
who's a psychologist that works with asylum seekers. We've got
midwives coming on board, We've got doctors, we've got specialist surgeons,
and we've got other nurse practitioners that are coming into chat.
It's going to be in a very very exciting twenty
twenty five. But to start it off, I have invited
the lovely Jerry to join us today. She's a little nervous,
(01:10):
but there's no need to be nervous. Jerry has a
really interesting history in that she is a psychologist, she's
worked with asylum seekers, she's done lots of counseling around
alcohol and other drug management, and we got chatting one
day in relation to what she does, and I found
it quite fascinating trying to understand. As you know, we've
(01:32):
had people that have come in on boats come and
speak on the podcast about what it's like dealing with
asylum seekers and how we as a community can help them,
but also some of the issues they face coming into
our society from where they've come from and the trauma
they bring with them. So welcome, Jerry. I'm excited about
(01:54):
this check with you today. Can you just give our
listeners a little bit of a rundown on your background?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Okay, Director, I'm not a fully fledged psychologist. I did
my psych degraded my four years honors, but I didn't
go and get the five plus one or the four
plus two. I stopped at that point because I got
my qualifications as a single working mom with two young
boys who had a chronic illness. Both of them got
type one diabetes, so to continue on with further study
(02:27):
it was just probably down there impossible. So I did
my four sided my diploma and counseling. I did my
four years psych degree. I have since done postgrad in
mental health and I'm now doing another postgrad in men's
behavior change. Because I seem to be a sucker for study,
some continually wanted to learn. So yeah, my career started
off in that sector. When I was doing my diploma counseling,
(02:50):
I did some volunteer work in the AOD sector.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Had a real calling for that, and.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I did some volunteer work with drug arm And as
I was doing my degree, I then got a position
where I was transitioning offenders from custody a female offenders.
I was working with both sexes, but then I predominantly
ended up transitioning female offenders.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And that was getting the prisoners out of prison and
helping them transition into society.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Prior to that, there was a job that I had
and it was called and it was called Advance to
Work Program, and that was helping offenders get them job ready.
So I would go in and help them get their
resumes ready and do what's called reverse marketing with employers
to have and basically sell these offenders to the employer
so that when they left, they would basically have a
job ready for them. And this was a really good program.
(03:42):
It only lasted a couple of years and it was
all very hush hush. Weren't allowed to talk about it
because there was no appetite in the community for government
funding to be seen to be helping offenders, so we
weren't allowed to talk about it. So it was just
like if anyone asked you do like this is from
coming from Queensland Corrective Services, you aren't allowed to really
promote this program. So I did that and then I
transitioned into a program for I did it for six
(04:05):
half seven years almost where we helped offenders transition from
custodial settings into society and that was basically helping them
with all facets of their transition, so housing, child safety,
drug and alcohol, medical health, whatever their issues were. And
sad to say that that was in twenty eleven. I
(04:27):
started that role. Housing was always the core issue and
if anything has gone backwards, it's actually gotten a lot worse.
It's really really chronic and it's horrendous to see that
Australia and many of the other countries actually have They
don't have a husing first policy, they have a husing last.
They say you deal with your mental health, do you
deal with your health issues? And then we'll get your house.
(04:49):
You know, you know, first and foremost people need a stable,
stable environment to live, to function, to address all the
other issues that they say that you know, will help
you with once you've got highs the once you do that,
then we'll get you a high. So I did that
for almost seven years, and I did work with male offenders,
and then I ended up solely working with female offenders.
(05:09):
And what really what really struck me about that was,
you know, just it was just really sad to see
that a lot of the women in custody where I'd
say at the time the stats were really high. It's
like eighty five percent or victims of domestic and family
violence and intergenerational trauma, familiar abuse, all sorts of stuff,
and a lot of the women in there had had
serious substanceous disorders because of you know, the.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Lives that they had lived.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So that really that sort of piqued my interest. And
once that role finished in getting into the AOD sector,
which is what I did then, and I worked directly
in the AOD center, AOD field. After that, drug and
alcohol and I worked in REZI rehab and I've worked
in day rehab, and I became a smart recovery facilitator.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, yeah, I heard that in that podcast. Yeah, it's
a great, great it was, It's fabulous.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yes, I've got that skill under my belt as well.
So yeah, and you know, lot of the because like
you know, AA is great, but it can be a
little bit preachy and people get scared of it and
they think, oh my god, you know, I'm going to
have to find God or whatever it is. And yeah,
there's an element of that, but you know, it is
whatever you want it to be. But certainly smart recovery
is more based, evidence based, and more modern in its approach.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So I found what I found with A and I
think I said it in you know when I spoke
with doctor Chris, is that there were people in there
that were having serious mental health issues. And I suppose,
being a healer a nurse, you know, you've got to
people have had trauma, so you can't touch them. And
I understand that completely, but you know, here's someone telling
(06:45):
their story, sobbing, sobbing, and all I wanted to do
is go over and give them a hard but you can't.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, and if I found that really hard in that environment,
really hard, and not trying to save anyone or but
I just felt it lacked compassion.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
In a STEPS programs. Yeah, yeah, and look, it's it's
whatever works, you know, you know, you've got to do
what you've got to do. And I do find that,
even find that, even when I was working in the
custodial settings, a lot of the clients would find religion
to help them get through. So you've got to do
what you need at that particular time. So who are
we to to, you know, to judge and you know,
(07:26):
sort of poo poo what people do.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I don't judge, that's right, anyone on what it takes
to not have that next drink.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, whatever works for you.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, what does my son always say, don't yuck my yam,
don't uck my don't yuck my yam. So what works
for you? Don't poo pooh, you know, And it's and
it's so true.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So look, and working in the in the residential rehab
space here in Brisbane, Look, that was a really interesting,
really interesting rule.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I did outreach.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
As well in the community from the from the rehab
because there was a real because they're waiting times to
get into these places are just horrendous.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So where which rehab you unit? Where you working?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Can I say Munya and where's.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Arna? No, Munya, Munya.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's a red Hill. It's run by the style of Wars.
It's the biggest residential rehab in Queensland. It's got eighty
mail beds and twenty female beds and it's in a
red Hill.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I yeah, no, I didn't know. I had heard of.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, it hads.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Hats is the detox and.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I suppose some of the more higher end ones.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But yeah, and like I've typically worked at the rehabs
and worked with clients who are from like don't can't
afford to pay for private rehabs. So these people are
can get in with just been on Centerlink benefits and
that you know, eighty percent of their benefit is taken
while they're in while they're in rehab, so they have
(09:00):
to find the upfront cost, which is usually two weeks
to get in. But the wait lists are huge. There's
about five or six around the Brisbane Gold Coast region,
you know that take clients from that lower socioeconomic background,
which is where it's mostly needed. But then also to
like it's a twelve week program. I think they've brought
it down to six night because typically evidence and studies
have shown that most people dip out after twelve. After
(09:21):
six weeks, they sort of just can't sustain it any longer.
So I think they've condensed it down to six and
then they put them into transitional houses if they have any,
and then work with them in the community. So then
I got involved with another organization called Lives Live Well,
who are really big in the AOD space.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
That is their bread and butter.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I delivered programs in custody for them, and I helped
set up their first Brisbane day HAAB.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It's called So it's at Wood and Gabba.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So it's basically a three week version, condensed version of
RESI rehab and that's with male and females and from
all walks of life. And that was really really interesting.
I love that role.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Opinion are the Is the need for rehab services growing? Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Absolutely, yeah for sure?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Society?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Is just the dysfunction, the availability, I guess the constant
promotion of alcohol.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I cannot you know, I fit.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
My heart goes out to people that have got alcohol
use disorder. It's just everywhere, especially this time of year.
It's just it's yeah, it's constantly in your face. And
I was listening to a podcast one and I juststd
a lot of podcasts, and there was one the other
day like one of the big UK doctors and this
unhappy New Year and can welcome back and you know,
(10:37):
hope you haven't got too big a hangover just like
joking about it. Everybody just still thinks it's normal to
joke about.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I was watching Channel seven the morning after you're not
talking about hangover qures and all this sort of thing, and.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I can't believe we're still to having these conversations. It's terrible,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well it was really interesting Jason and Andy who own
h Sparkling, who I just it's an amazing product. It's
not alcoholic, it's a stray made. He was saying when
he got very sick and ended up nearly died and
had to be saved in hospital from alcohol. And when
he was in rehab he looked at his window and
(11:13):
there was a BWS.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Like seriously, it's awful, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I know?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And that's out It's everywhere and that's why Fair Australia
is doing such wonderful work.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
And I don't know what needs to be done. Like
it's just as part of the Australian culture and obviously
where I come from to in Ireland, it's the drinking culture.
And yeah, it's keeping a lot of people in jobs
and I guess it gives a lot of money for
the economy.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I don't know what it does. It's the same with gambling
as well.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's you know the apps and ads that are available
to the young kids at gamble and you know it's
it's very problem. So yeah, certainly, and looking there's waves.
Like when I first started in the sector, you would
see various different substances, Like obviously alcohol was always played
a part in a lot of you know, most of
the substance use disorders are use disorders, but you know,
(12:00):
there would be trains. When I first started, it was
heroin that caroin is a big thing, and then ice
came in, and then there was no heir when it
was all ice, and then there was a combination of
both and you know, these people are up, they're dying,
they're all over and then they can't get that they're
on the alcohol. It's just yeah, it's it's just the
availability and and I guess just the dysfunction and the
trauma and it's just a plethora of you know, it's
(12:21):
just cherry pick what it is. It's driving people to
to get to that point and to feel that that's
the only way to cope. And the amount of functional.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Addicts, I guess this is a terrible word.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I might only use that language, but the month of
functional alcoholics or functional users that I have worked with
in my career is quite startling as well though, But
you know, it is what it is, and they're doing
what they're doing and holding down jobs. But it's yeah,
just the availability I think of rehabs needs to be
(12:54):
stepped up or you know, more pro social, you know,
pro worker friendly services so you know you can access
these service and still function.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Like the dayhabs were a great idea.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
So that means you didn't have to basically pack up
your life for twelve weeks or six weeks, and you know,
it was so obvious that you were doing something. Whereas
you can attend a dayhab and do a couple of
a couple of days a week. It's I think the
model has changed a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
They do.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Like when we did it was for three weeks for
like a morning session. But now I think it's you
go in three times a week for just a morning
session or an afternoon session, so you can explain that
away to an employer quite easily, or just if you
work part time, whatever, it's easier to fit into your life.
And basically you're learning the CBT.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Skills or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
It is the different type of skills that you would
get taught in a longer version in resu rehab, and
it's more authentic. It's you know, in your community, you're
going home at the end of the day. You can
put into practice straight away the skills that you learned
that day, as opposed to like in twelve week times.
You know what did we learn in week one? If
rehab you know what I mean, people just haven't They
just can't retain it or yeah, and a lot and
(13:57):
looking unfortunately. I'd hate to say it, but it's you know,
I might as well said I think rehab was a
housing option for a lot of people too, which is
really as a prison for a lot of people to
they commit offenses, to get arrested, to back get into
custody because life is just too hard.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
They just can't hope. They're institutionalize, they.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Can't get anywhere to live, and basically they get food,
they get their medicine, they get their drugs, they get
housing in custody.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Interesting saying that we saw that when I worked at
Wynham Hospital in the medical ward there. Yeah, there were
patients that were long, long term patients that knew that
after a period of time they have to go out
and then something would happen again and then back in
because they had nowhere else to go.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And look, and I ended up doing a stint with
the NDIS for a year as well. It's called a
gloor justice liaison officer because it's a really high cohort
of clients in custody who should be on NDIS and
who've got you know, cognitive deficits or whatever their disabilities are,
like psychological, neurological, physical, or whatever it is, and they're
just you know, not being there, just you know, lumped
(15:03):
in with everyone else and basically turfed out and then
lo and behold, the're back in again three weeks later
or whatever it is. So trying to get them on
plants so then when they do get out that they
can get transitioned onto a plan and be working with
the support coordinator or whatever it is. They need to
address their disability as well. So that's quite quite a
neat thing that the NDIS have done. Very challenging with QCs.
(15:27):
It was one of the only Quinsland Corrective Services, one
of the.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Biggest. They were dragging their heels. Basically all the other
states and.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Territories were on board, but QCs were really reticent to
let that happen. But they'd signed an agreement and they
had to let it happen. So I'd only did it
for a year was when COVID hit and then it
just became a little bit of a little bit messy.
So I decided to not do that any longer, and
then I kind of what it did after that. I've
done a time in the DV space as while frontline
DV work as well with DV connect for a wee while,
(15:57):
and I worked in Melbourne briefly at the Orange Door,
which is I was a PU person who uses violence
practitioner working with the men more more because I just
want to not because all these men need help to
and yes they do, but it's more about keeping them accountable.
There's lots of services and lots of funding for women
(16:19):
and children, and there should be more. But we need
to bring these men up to the you know, keep
them in the middle and make them be accountable and
make them realize and help them understand that this is
not acceptable.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
This is this behavior needs to stop.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Not you know, I guess it's coming from a place
of nurturing and caring and empathy, but also to it's
more like I want to make sure you know that
you can't behave this way anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Have you ever felt unsafe?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
A lot of people have asked me that I actually,
you know, when you when you go out in roles
and you're in the community, because a lot of my
jobs were community based, you always have like, you know,
things in place to you know, you take your duressal
arm or you have apps.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
The only time I ever felt.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Unsafe is actually working in the community with people that
have got unmanaged mental health. Never felt unsafe working with offenders,
never felt unsafe working with you know, people with substitute
disorder and looked typically there was mental health attached, but
they were usually medicated and managed. But there's a lot
of people out there in society who are you know,
(17:21):
or there are and have been diagnosed, are just not
taking their meds. And you know, remember that bus driver
that got killed and anerally a few years ago, that
was by someone who just chucked a bomb and he
was in the community living you know, unmanaged on these
diagnosed but unmanaged mental health and he's known the Forensic
Disability Unit done in weak All, So you know, so yeah,
(17:43):
I think the unmanaged, unchecked, you know, people that are
living out there with really severe and persistent psychosis or
whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
That's the only time that felt on safe.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah. Typically, you know, when you're working with clients who
are from a custodial setting or now I'm worth it,
the silence seekers there, you know, we're only one piece
of there's lots of other agencies involved with them. So
you know, certainly with the offenders, they weren't really going
to bite the hand that feeds them because we'd be
the conduit to get them into lots of other services
they were reporting to parole. Typically, you know, I've worked
(18:17):
with some of the worst criminals in Queensland, like murderers, rapists, whatever,
some horrendous stories. But no, I you know, as you
go through your career. It was really important for me.
I think when I first started out, I thought, you know,
oh God help, these people are going to do this,
is going to do that. But as you go through
you realize really quickly that you can't do that and
(18:40):
you have to work with the person in front of you,
and their crime is irrelevant. I used to always want
to know what they did, but towards the end, I
didn't want to know because I was I was biginning
to become biased. Sometimes I would front up, But that's
very insightful that you realize that, yeah, yeah, it was
just too hard for me to do my job otherwise
because it would be hard.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Especially with the DV perps. It was really hard for me.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
To to go and work with them and it would
be perceived to be helping them when I knew what
they had done and some of the stuff they did
it was just horrific. But so I decided that' said,
I need to not know that. I just need to
work with that person in front of me. I'm here
to do my job and it's altimes really called and clinical,
but it was survival and it just helped me go
(19:22):
about my job because all the while I'm a single
mom with two kids as well as so I had
my working cap on and then I had to come
and be a mum as well, so I had to
know how to change the huts.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Well, that leads you to my next question. Vicarious trauma
must be quite prevalent within your space. How do you
manage you? How do you look after yourself so that
that doesn't I mean, I have no doubt it's happened,
but how do you manage yourself? Or if you feel
that something's really affected you have you got someone that
(19:54):
you can talk to.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Well. Typically in these roles you do get supervision if
the organizations that you work with, so you meant to
get external supervision or internal supervision with your life manager
or external with another provider.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So that does help.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think being really self aware as well has helped
me along the way. Unfortunately, when I did first start
in the space, I probably drank a little bit too much.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I'd be having my couple.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Of glasses of water a night and it was just like,
you need to get a grip because you're walking in
the door and your children need you. Yes, you've got
your job, but your children need you too, So you know,
I'd find that I would have. You know, I've bede
two glasses of wide a night and I thought, shit,
if anything goes wrong with these two boys and I
need to get them to the hospital, something has a
you know, serious hypo or whatever through the night, and
you know, yes, I would call an ambulance. But that
(20:39):
was that was beside the point, you know, I mean,
it's just you need to stop. You need to get
a grip, because I find like drinking alcohol just help
me forget about the days sometimes, like you know, you've
been dealing with really traumatic incidents and horrible situations and
things that have happened, like horrendous things that have happened
to clients, and you know, you just can't get it
out of your head. And as my career went on,
(21:01):
I think, you know, I could feel my brain getting rewarded.
You literally feel like you friends getting fried. You can
feel the changes, and that's what you could feel like
the burnout was happening. So that's when I loved what
I did. But I wanted to stay in the sector,
but I needed to affect some changes. So I find
naturally not drinking, I find not knowing what the offenses
(21:22):
were and just you know, being more mindful of I
go home and that's what my job's done. I don't
think about work, So I just it took a lot
of efforts.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So do you exercise? I exercise a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I have three times a week, I go to the gym,
I walk. I have a healthy passing interest in your
diet and nutrition. So yeah, just all the things that
you know help you release the endorphins and natural endorphins
and actually feel good and you know, chat with girlfriends,
hang out with my kids, whatever it is I need
to do now, I'm actually find it much easier now
(21:58):
because I'm much older obviously, and and I'm not on
the front line anymore. I manage the staff on the
front line who are out there working with asylum seekers.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So yeah, you now work with asylum seekers. Yes, can
you tell us what the definition of an asylum seeker is?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So they're basically I mean, I didn't know the difference
between refugees and the asylum seekers. So asylum seekers are
someone who've had to flee their country and come into
Australia without being granted the right to stay here like refugees.
So the refugees come in, they come in under the
HSP program, which is the Humanitarian Support program. They get
(22:36):
their visas granted, they fly in typically and they're met
at the airport and off they go, and then they're
managed by different agencies. The asylum seekers are typically the
people that used to arrive by boat but not anymore,
or come in on a tourist visa and then just
let it expire and then apply for protection and are
living in the community illegally and then they try and
(22:56):
apply for protection and it takes forever to get that
haired sometimes. So we have a variety of clients on
or cases. I work with one of the biggest agencies
in Australia who look after asylum seekers and refugees and
many other programs. But and in Queensland we have quite
(23:16):
a lot. We have probably about two hundred asylum seekret
clients on our caseload at the moment so and twenty
and they're managed in the community. There's a variety of
the ones that are in community detention are the ones
that came in by boat and they will never be
settled in Australia unfortunately, and some of them have been
living in community attention for ten plus years. Yeah, so
(23:39):
they have no medicare rights, no work rights, and are
just waiting, waiting, waiting for their status to be resolved.
And the status being resolved means you can only go
back to the country of origin. They go to the
third country, the only country and I accepting them as
New Zealand, America and Canada. We're accepting them, but they're
not anymore. So New Zealand's the only country left. So
(24:00):
we have still quite a large amount of families on
our caseload who are living in community with children. A
lot of single men who came from Larry or Manas
and are now they were brought in from Larry Manas
and Or. I'm not sure you remember on the news.
I can remember seeing it, but I didn't really was
on my radar because I wasn't working in this space.
There was a lot of them held in the Kangary Point.
(24:23):
There was a whole lot of them held it. It's
a Kangary point. So now they're living in detention, community
attention in houses in the community, still on resolve, still
can't work, still of no medicare rights, still waiting, waiting, waiting,
and where they leave, they they get like a really
small I guess they equid look centerly payment. So their
houses are paid for, which you and I and the
taxpaker taxpayer are paying for. The only thing they have
(24:45):
to pay for is their food and their phones. Everything
else is paid for and they get like a small
benefit from the government. And yeah, but their mental health
is just you know, because obviously they've had to flee
some horrific, horrible situations, you know, child soldiers, all sorts
of stuff. Some of the stories are horrendous. And then
and just to be held and held in limbo. I
(25:08):
guess you know custodial sentences. I guess you know when
they're going to end. You have a date, you're getting out.
But here it's just like this abyss of unknown and
they just never know, and you know, just waiting for
their status to be resolved with the Department of Home Affairs.
So that might never It has to happen eventually, but
it may not be that they will never get to
(25:29):
those ones that came by but will never get settled
in Australia. Is those ones that will never that will
never happen. So we're just waiting for them to get
transitioned to New.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Zealand so they will all go to New Zealand or
do some get sent back to.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Some will choose to go back as well. Yeah, are
they then putting themselves? Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Persecution And that's the that's the that's the thing that
sort of slows Like I know that a lot of
them are Sri Lankan and there was the civil war there,
I believe, and now that's no longer. And the ones
that are saying well we can't go back as a
civil war, will government are saying well, you can go
back to civil wars no longer, So you probably need.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
To think about gone back.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So there's just so many, so many issues and things
to be considered.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
And so what is your role in working with the
asylum secrets?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So I have a team of six case managers who
are right in the community helping manage these clients. So
it's to help them, I guess, function get them to
medical appointments, help them with all sorts of stuff that
might be required.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
To maintain their sanity.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I guess, just to maintain their status so they can
remain until they Department Home Affairs make a decision about
how and when are where they will get settled.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So depending on which government is in p yes, does
that have a big play on how it works?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I believe so. And I know that I deal with
a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Of of the Department Home Affairs staff who have seen
many governments come and go, like some of them have
been there for twenty five years, so that you know,
there's you know, it's a different a different change of
government every three or four years, and they just brush
it off and said it just is what it is.
(27:19):
I think there's going to be a change of government
this time. I don't know what it's going to look like,
but we all know that what Peter Dutton's stances on
migration and how that's going to be for a lot
of the existing especially the ones that are in community attention,
the ones that have applied to come here and there
(27:41):
we have a lot of Gaza families out here. Now
we have recently had a huge influx of women from
PNG fleeing. They come here on they come here on
visitors visas and then claim to they can't go back
because of domestic and family violence.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And is that is the violence there towards women?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I do believe is yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
And we have then the Department have to determine if
it's actually they have to see if it's a legitimate reason.
They have to do all their you know, checks and
balances to see if they do have a legitimate protection
visa claim. Sometimes the stories are all signed the same,
so you sort of think, you know that whatever's gone on,
and however they're being told to come here, there're all
(28:29):
been a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
The stories are all the same.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
They come here on a three month tourist visa, let
that expire, and then apply for protection. So somehow it
feels like they're being coached or guided by typically religious
organizations to do that, to get out and they may
have a legitimate claim that.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You know, that may be happening. It's not for me
to say.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
It's up to the government to investigate and determine if yes,
it's a legitimate protection claim. So yeah, it's it's there's
been a huge increase and the demands a lot of
them are coming with children, like families of six and seven,
pregnant whatever, and the demand on the housing sector is
just we had to have like a sector meeting just
(29:12):
before Christmas because you know, the crisis. Accommodation providers are
just they're not funded for this cohort and they were
funded to the end of the year and they've non
got no money and these women are in like crisis
accommodation that are being paid for by the heart four
thousands of the world and stuff like that, but they
have no more funding for it. And it's just like,
what are we going to do with this cohort after December?
(29:33):
There's no more funding and who's going to pay for it?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And yeah, So it's I think a lot of countries.
It's it's such an ethical problem. And you look at
what Germany has just done, which is close the borders
in allowing any asylum seekers in it all. Now France
is wanting to do the same, but it hasn't. America,
(29:58):
Well that's about to change, yeah, yeah, I mean where
do these people?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And I was reading like an article just the other
day about like the amount of Vietnamese that are trying
to get across English channel as well. Now that's the
biggest cohort. There's been a huge increase in people trying
to get across the English Channel. And the ethnicity is
the Vietnamese, which they're saying is one of the fastest
growing economies in the world. They can't understand why they're
(30:29):
trying to flee. So I just was reading that article
yesterday on the on the BBC News. So yeah, it's
certainly a huge problem, and everybody's bursting at the scenes,
especially in the UK, like I don't know, like a
straight up you know, I guess geographic yep. Got the
room for them, for sure, but they don't have the
infrastructure and the housing is just as I said earlier,
(30:50):
it's just gone backwards.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
So it's I.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Don't know, if someone's taking their eye off the pall.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
It's just a mass.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
So is that the number one problem that you perceived? Housing?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Housing? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And what about the kids that come over? What are
they to be schooled?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, they can be schooled, and we have to apply
every twelve months. We have to jump through hoops to
if to apply every twelve months to get an exemption,
so they can't attend school.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yes, yep, so that's something.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And if those kids have come over and say, for example,
child soldiers things like that from say Africa, their only
way of life that they would know violence.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
That for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
How do you work with someone to rewire the brain?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Well, you count that's the thing. They're highly traumatized and
typically they end up committing offenses here and then like
there might have been granted legitimate refugee status, which is
quite a lot of our clients that we are working with,
we're legitimately granted refugee status, but because of their country
of origin, the intergenerational trauma, what they've witnessed, what they've seen,
(32:01):
do end up committing offenses here and if they're sentence
for twelve months or more, they end up they get
they lose their they lose their pr Yeah, the refugee status.
So they're in the community working with us and they
have to start again, and they're at in the community
and what it's called a bridging visa removal ours removal
(32:21):
and their their cases are sitting with Home Affairs to
determine whether or not they will end up being sent
back or whether they can get their status back again
and remain in Australia.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
So are they intermingled within the community through all suburbs, Yeah,
everyone everywhere. How do they find they are treated by Australians.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Look, some of them are fine, like and they just
you know, just want to work, want to focus. Like
Typically the ones that have committed offenses. They can, they've
got they get back out of custody. They're on the
b v R, which means Bridge and visa which means
they can work. Removals pending, which means it's just sitting there.
They can get removed at any point, but they still
can work. And a lot of them just want to
get on with their life and head down, bum up.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
And that's great.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Some of the clients that are in community Attention, particularly
some of the families and the women are really gosh,
I don't want to sense it sounds really awful. Become
quite entitled and quite demanding in terms of you know, well,
I don't want to live in this house. I want
to live in that Highs And you know I want
a three bedroom house. I don't want a two bedroom Highs.
(33:33):
Just stuff like that, and that type of stuff really
is you know, you've got no idea. There's there's a
heising crisis. You're really really lucky to even have a Highs,
you know, so majority, yes, I'd say ninety five percent,
But we have the cohort that just refused to assimilate,
refuse to work with us, refuse to work with the department,
(33:54):
and just create issues.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So what happens with them.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
We have a couple of really tricky cases at the moment.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Look just tipped her around it.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, we have to collaborate with the department, and they're
now on board with my team to help us to
work with one particular really problematic client who has been
refusing to, I guess, live by the rules of her
detention because basically, she's a non citizen.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
She shouldn't be here.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
She came by boat. She's never going to be settled here.
She's waiting to go to America. She applied before the
America option close, so we're just waiting for that to happen.
I somehow don't think it's going to happen because Trump's
coming in, He's closing the borders. He's probably whoever was
told they could get there before. I don't think it's
going to happen anymore. So I don't know where she's going.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
To end up.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
But we've had to we and mean, the department and
our organization have had to take more of a harder
stance with her to she's living in a house that
she shouldn't be living in. Basically, she was granted bridging
visa last August, which means you find your accommodation, you
get a job. She's not done that. She refused to leave,
(35:11):
refused to work, and it's been going on since last August.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So do you think the people that behave like she
is actually came from money? Insteatus where they came from.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
There's a particular nation where that the Iranians a team
to come with a lot of money and a lot
of demands and they want the best off and they
want the flash cars and they want this then feel
a little bit insulted by what they're offered. Somewhat I
personally find Okay, I work. You obviously wouldn't work in
(35:43):
the sector if I didn't have the empathy in the
care and the sympathy or whatever it is. But that
type of behavior I find really hard to accept. You know,
there's a lot of people that have got absolutely zib
zero's elch that a roof over their head and you
want to getosh clothes for your child?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Sorry God, is that still a thing?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
The thing when now kids are.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Little obviously in around but yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
We couldn't afford it. Yeah, I don't can.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Party whatever it is, absolutely you just the.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Best thing you ever when you get christ like the
birthdays of.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Christmas Camart, No way, I'm not clothes on my child
or target whatever it is. This is like that type
of attitude really doesn't doesn't sit well with me and
doesn't sit well with you know, the workers in the sector.
But you know, we have to just accept that and
try and work with that. And look, you know, there's
(36:38):
a lot of trauma there for that particular client. There's
a diagnose but not medicated mental health issues, refuses to
engage in mental health, refuses to accept the diagnosis. It's
conspiracy whatever it is she feels it is. So yeah, yeah,
so it's you know, there's lots of tricky, tricky elements
(36:59):
to it. So again we just have to front up
and do the best we can and hopefully get the
best outcome for the client and for the you know,
you know, the government are funding our program, so we
have to work with the government too. So you know,
we're the front line, non non government organization, you know,
working in the space, working with a dysfunction, working with
the challenges. We walk the journeys with the client. The
(37:23):
government just issued the orders, we have to deliver it,
so which at times, can be it can peak your
and you know, it might not sit well with your
values and your beliefs, but it is what it is.
And I guess I'm much further down the path in
my career. I guess I'm not saying become called. I'm
(37:45):
more practical, realistic, practical. I know, I hear what you're saying.
As I said in my case, I know I hear
what you're saying, and we talk it through. However, this
is what we have to do. Unfortunately, you know, I've
been where they've been really impacted, really felt it. You know,
this can't be right, and it's not right.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
It's shit. The system sucks, it's unfair.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
But we're just better than a lot of countries, absolutely,
And you know, we're only a little dot and a
microcosm of bullshit that we just have to you know,
our voices. We can only do the best we can
to work with in this space. And and I guess,
you know, it is a whole systemic thing. And I
don't know what the answer is in terms of, you know,
do we stop letting people.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
In and cap it or whatever it is? Like, I know,
it sort of feels.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Like the government or maybe making a decision, you know,
on the run they realize I think it was, didn't
They say there was eighty thousand more people let in
than then planed to. So that's a huge and yeah,
that's why now there's a housing crisis, and the housing
housing organizations saying, well, actually it's it's it's not a
supply problem, it's a demand problem, or so in the
(38:52):
government sayings supply problem.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, so exactly does it matter what it is? There's
no fricking houses for anyone, so affordable housing.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
What can we do to help, you know, these asylums
seekers that are in our community? I mean me being me.
I there's people I know that have come across from
Iran and different places, and I always make sure I
say hello and nice and you know, is that more
than enough? Or is there more that we could be doing.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I think it's a personal thing, really, isn't it too?
It depends like what your biases and whatever it is,
whatever you know you personally feel towards them. And I
think being educated and knowing that they're right there in
the community and living in the community. But I think,
you know that could that could be enough? Just making
them feel included. Yeah, I just acknowledging them. They're all
(39:45):
human beings at the end of.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
The day, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Civity is Yeah, we're just take the skin off. We're
all the same skeleton underneath, so we're just human beings.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You cut through that skin, we're all the same color.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
That's right, Jerry.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I've really enjoyed my chat with you.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You have been so interesting and thank you so honest,
which I've find everyone in here tends to be. They
just want to let people know what it's really like
in their roles and what they do and what's happening
in the community. And I just think, once again, I
do bang on about kindness, but I think kindness is invaluable.
(40:21):
And maybe you know, if any of you out there listening,
do know someone that's a asylums thinker, or do just
know someone that's a refuge and they're living in the
house besides or a unit or whatever
Speaker 1 (40:32):
You know, just say fine, yeah, yeah, it doesn't take much,
just a smile at them.
Apolge Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nelly
four years. We always have free will, We always get
to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome back to Timinus Nurses twenty twenty five. We have
got some amazing speakers and guests coming up this year,
and I've spent the day organizing those new guest speakers.
So there's going to be some very varied people coming
into chat from Donate Live. We've got Jerry this morning,
(00:47):
who's a psychologist that works with asylum seekers. We've got
midwives coming on board, We've got doctors, we've got specialist surgeons,
and we've got other nurse practitioners that are coming into chat.
It's going to be in a very very exciting twenty
twenty five. But to start it off, I have invited
the lovely Jerry to join us today. She's a little nervous,
(01:10):
but there's no need to be nervous. Jerry has a
really interesting history in that she is a psychologist, she's
worked with asylum seekers, she's done lots of counseling around
alcohol and other drug management, and we got chatting one
day in relation to what she does, and I found
it quite fascinating trying to understand. As you know, we've
(01:32):
had people that have come in on boats come and
speak on the podcast about what it's like dealing with
asylum seekers and how we as a community can help them,
but also some of the issues they face coming into
our society from where they've come from and the trauma
they bring with them. So welcome, Jerry. I'm excited about
(01:54):
this check with you today. Can you just give our
listeners a little bit of a rundown on your background?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Okay, Director, I'm not a fully fledged psychologist. I did
my psych degraded my four years honors, but I didn't
go and get the five plus one or the four
plus two. I stopped at that point because I got
my qualifications as a single working mom with two young
boys who had a chronic illness. Both of them got
type one diabetes, so to continue on with further study
(02:27):
it was just probably down there impossible. So I did
my four sided my diploma and counseling. I did my
four years psych degree. I have since done postgrad in
mental health and I'm now doing another postgrad in men's
behavior change. Because I seem to be a sucker for study,
some continually wanted to learn. So yeah, my career started
off in that sector. When I was doing my diploma counseling,
(02:50):
I did some volunteer work in the AOD sector.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Had a real calling for that, and.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I did some volunteer work with drug arm And as
I was doing my degree, I then got a position
where I was transitioning offenders from custody a female offenders.
I was working with both sexes, but then I predominantly
ended up transitioning female offenders.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And that was getting the prisoners out of prison and
helping them transition into society.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Prior to that, there was a job that I had
and it was called and it was called Advance to
Work Program, and that was helping offenders get them job ready.
So I would go in and help them get their
resumes ready and do what's called reverse marketing with employers
to have and basically sell these offenders to the employer
so that when they left, they would basically have a
job ready for them. And this was a really good program.
(03:42):
It only lasted a couple of years and it was
all very hush hush. Weren't allowed to talk about it
because there was no appetite in the community for government
funding to be seen to be helping offenders, so we
weren't allowed to talk about it. So it was just
like if anyone asked you do like this is from
coming from Queensland Corrective Services, you aren't allowed to really
promote this program. So I did that and then I
transitioned into a program for I did it for six
(04:05):
half seven years almost where we helped offenders transition from
custodial settings into society and that was basically helping them
with all facets of their transition, so housing, child safety,
drug and alcohol, medical health, whatever their issues were. And
sad to say that that was in twenty eleven. I
(04:27):
started that role. Housing was always the core issue and
if anything has gone backwards, it's actually gotten a lot worse.
It's really really chronic and it's horrendous to see that
Australia and many of the other countries actually have They
don't have a husing first policy, they have a husing last.
They say you deal with your mental health, do you
deal with your health issues? And then we'll get your house.
(04:49):
You know, you know, first and foremost people need a stable,
stable environment to live, to function, to address all the
other issues that they say that you know, will help
you with once you've got highs the once you do that,
then we'll get you a high. So I did that
for almost seven years, and I did work with male offenders,
and then I ended up solely working with female offenders.
(05:09):
And what really what really struck me about that was,
you know, just it was just really sad to see
that a lot of the women in custody where I'd
say at the time the stats were really high. It's
like eighty five percent or victims of domestic and family
violence and intergenerational trauma, familiar abuse, all sorts of stuff,
and a lot of the women in there had had
serious substanceous disorders because of you know, the.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Lives that they had lived.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So that really that sort of piqued my interest. And
once that role finished in getting into the AOD sector,
which is what I did then, and I worked directly
in the AOD center, AOD field. After that, drug and
alcohol and I worked in REZI rehab and I've worked
in day rehab, and I became a smart recovery facilitator.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, yeah, I heard that in that podcast. Yeah, it's
a great, great it was, It's fabulous.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yes, I've got that skill under my belt as well.
So yeah, and you know, lot of the because like
you know, AA is great, but it can be a
little bit preachy and people get scared of it and
they think, oh my god, you know, I'm going to
have to find God or whatever it is. And yeah,
there's an element of that, but you know, it is
whatever you want it to be. But certainly smart recovery
is more based, evidence based, and more modern in its approach.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So I found what I found with A and I
think I said it in you know when I spoke
with doctor Chris, is that there were people in there
that were having serious mental health issues. And I suppose,
being a healer a nurse, you know, you've got to
people have had trauma, so you can't touch them. And
I understand that completely, but you know, here's someone telling
(06:45):
their story, sobbing, sobbing, and all I wanted to do
is go over and give them a hard but you can't.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, and if I found that really hard in that environment,
really hard, and not trying to save anyone or but
I just felt it lacked compassion.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
In a STEPS programs. Yeah, yeah, and look, it's it's
whatever works, you know, you know, you've got to do
what you've got to do. And I do find that,
even find that, even when I was working in the
custodial settings, a lot of the clients would find religion
to help them get through. So you've got to do
what you need at that particular time. So who are
we to to, you know, to judge and you know,
(07:26):
sort of poo poo what people do.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I don't judge, that's right, anyone on what it takes
to not have that next drink.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, whatever works for you.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, what does my son always say, don't yuck my yam,
don't uck my don't yuck my yam. So what works
for you? Don't poo pooh, you know, And it's and
it's so true.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So look, and working in the in the residential rehab
space here in Brisbane, Look, that was a really interesting,
really interesting rule.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I did outreach.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
As well in the community from the from the rehab
because there was a real because they're waiting times to
get into these places are just horrendous.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So where which rehab you unit? Where you working?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Can I say Munya and where's.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Arna? No, Munya, Munya.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's a red Hill. It's run by the style of Wars.
It's the biggest residential rehab in Queensland. It's got eighty
mail beds and twenty female beds and it's in a
red Hill.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I yeah, no, I didn't know. I had heard of.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, it hads.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Hats is the detox and.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I suppose some of the more higher end ones.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But yeah, and like I've typically worked at the rehabs
and worked with clients who are from like don't can't
afford to pay for private rehabs. So these people are
can get in with just been on Centerlink benefits and
that you know, eighty percent of their benefit is taken
while they're in while they're in rehab, so they have
(09:00):
to find the upfront cost, which is usually two weeks
to get in. But the wait lists are huge. There's
about five or six around the Brisbane Gold Coast region,
you know that take clients from that lower socioeconomic background,
which is where it's mostly needed. But then also to
like it's a twelve week program. I think they've brought
it down to six night because typically evidence and studies
have shown that most people dip out after twelve. After
(09:21):
six weeks, they sort of just can't sustain it any longer.
So I think they've condensed it down to six and
then they put them into transitional houses if they have any,
and then work with them in the community. So then
I got involved with another organization called Lives Live Well,
who are really big in the AOD space.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
That is their bread and butter.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I delivered programs in custody for them, and I helped
set up their first Brisbane day HAAB.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It's called So it's at Wood and Gabba.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So it's basically a three week version, condensed version of
RESI rehab and that's with male and females and from
all walks of life. And that was really really interesting.
I love that role.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Opinion are the Is the need for rehab services growing? Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Absolutely, yeah for sure?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Society?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Is just the dysfunction, the availability, I guess the constant
promotion of alcohol.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I cannot you know, I fit.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
My heart goes out to people that have got alcohol
use disorder. It's just everywhere, especially this time of year.
It's just it's yeah, it's constantly in your face. And
I was listening to a podcast one and I juststd
a lot of podcasts, and there was one the other
day like one of the big UK doctors and this
unhappy New Year and can welcome back and you know,
(10:37):
hope you haven't got too big a hangover just like
joking about it. Everybody just still thinks it's normal to
joke about.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I was watching Channel seven the morning after you're not
talking about hangover qures and all this sort of thing, and.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I can't believe we're still to having these conversations. It's terrible,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well it was really interesting Jason and Andy who own
h Sparkling, who I just it's an amazing product. It's
not alcoholic, it's a stray made. He was saying when
he got very sick and ended up nearly died and
had to be saved in hospital from alcohol. And when
he was in rehab he looked at his window and
(11:13):
there was a BWS.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Like seriously, it's awful, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I know?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And that's out It's everywhere and that's why Fair Australia
is doing such wonderful work.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
And I don't know what needs to be done. Like
it's just as part of the Australian culture and obviously
where I come from to in Ireland, it's the drinking culture.
And yeah, it's keeping a lot of people in jobs
and I guess it gives a lot of money for
the economy.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I don't know what it does. It's the same with gambling
as well.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's you know the apps and ads that are available
to the young kids at gamble and you know it's
it's very problem. So yeah, certainly, and looking there's waves.
Like when I first started in the sector, you would
see various different substances, Like obviously alcohol was always played
a part in a lot of you know, most of
the substance use disorders are use disorders, but you know,
(12:00):
there would be trains. When I first started, it was
heroin that caroin is a big thing, and then ice
came in, and then there was no heir when it
was all ice, and then there was a combination of
both and you know, these people are up, they're dying,
they're all over and then they can't get that they're
on the alcohol. It's just yeah, it's it's just the
availability and and I guess just the dysfunction and the
trauma and it's just a plethora of you know, it's
(12:21):
just cherry pick what it is. It's driving people to
to get to that point and to feel that that's
the only way to cope. And the amount of functional.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Addicts, I guess this is a terrible word.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I might only use that language, but the month of
functional alcoholics or functional users that I have worked with
in my career is quite startling as well though, But
you know, it is what it is, and they're doing
what they're doing and holding down jobs. But it's yeah,
just the availability I think of rehabs needs to be
(12:54):
stepped up or you know, more pro social, you know,
pro worker friendly services so you know you can access
these service and still function.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Like the dayhabs were a great idea.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
So that means you didn't have to basically pack up
your life for twelve weeks or six weeks, and you know,
it was so obvious that you were doing something. Whereas
you can attend a dayhab and do a couple of
a couple of days a week. It's I think the
model has changed a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
They do.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Like when we did it was for three weeks for
like a morning session. But now I think it's you
go in three times a week for just a morning
session or an afternoon session, so you can explain that
away to an employer quite easily, or just if you
work part time, whatever, it's easier to fit into your life.
And basically you're learning the CBT.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Skills or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
It is the different type of skills that you would
get taught in a longer version in resu rehab, and
it's more authentic. It's you know, in your community, you're
going home at the end of the day. You can
put into practice straight away the skills that you learned
that day, as opposed to like in twelve week times.
You know what did we learn in week one? If
rehab you know what I mean, people just haven't They
just can't retain it or yeah, and a lot and
(13:57):
looking unfortunately. I'd hate to say it, but it's you know,
I might as well said I think rehab was a
housing option for a lot of people too, which is
really as a prison for a lot of people to
they commit offenses, to get arrested, to back get into
custody because life is just too hard.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
They just can't hope. They're institutionalize, they.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Can't get anywhere to live, and basically they get food,
they get their medicine, they get their drugs, they get
housing in custody.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Interesting saying that we saw that when I worked at
Wynham Hospital in the medical ward there. Yeah, there were
patients that were long, long term patients that knew that
after a period of time they have to go out
and then something would happen again and then back in
because they had nowhere else to go.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And look, and I ended up doing a stint with
the NDIS for a year as well. It's called a
gloor justice liaison officer because it's a really high cohort
of clients in custody who should be on NDIS and
who've got you know, cognitive deficits or whatever their disabilities are,
like psychological, neurological, physical, or whatever it is, and they're
just you know, not being there, just you know, lumped
(15:03):
in with everyone else and basically turfed out and then
lo and behold, the're back in again three weeks later
or whatever it is. So trying to get them on
plants so then when they do get out that they
can get transitioned onto a plan and be working with
the support coordinator or whatever it is. They need to
address their disability as well. So that's quite quite a
neat thing that the NDIS have done. Very challenging with QCs.
(15:27):
It was one of the only Quinsland Corrective Services, one
of the.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Biggest. They were dragging their heels. Basically all the other
states and.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Territories were on board, but QCs were really reticent to
let that happen. But they'd signed an agreement and they
had to let it happen. So I'd only did it
for a year was when COVID hit and then it
just became a little bit of a little bit messy.
So I decided to not do that any longer, and
then I kind of what it did after that. I've
done a time in the DV space as while frontline
DV work as well with DV connect for a wee while,
(15:57):
and I worked in Melbourne briefly at the Orange Door,
which is I was a PU person who uses violence
practitioner working with the men more more because I just
want to not because all these men need help to
and yes they do, but it's more about keeping them accountable.
There's lots of services and lots of funding for women
(16:19):
and children, and there should be more. But we need
to bring these men up to the you know, keep
them in the middle and make them be accountable and
make them realize and help them understand that this is
not acceptable.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
This is this behavior needs to stop.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Not you know, I guess it's coming from a place
of nurturing and caring and empathy, but also to it's
more like I want to make sure you know that
you can't behave this way anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Have you ever felt unsafe?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
A lot of people have asked me that I actually,
you know, when you when you go out in roles
and you're in the community, because a lot of my
jobs were community based, you always have like, you know,
things in place to you know, you take your duressal
arm or you have apps.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
The only time I ever felt.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Unsafe is actually working in the community with people that
have got unmanaged mental health. Never felt unsafe working with offenders,
never felt unsafe working with you know, people with substitute
disorder and looked typically there was mental health attached, but
they were usually medicated and managed. But there's a lot
of people out there in society who are you know,
(17:21):
or there are and have been diagnosed, are just not
taking their meds. And you know, remember that bus driver
that got killed and anerally a few years ago, that
was by someone who just chucked a bomb and he
was in the community living you know, unmanaged on these
diagnosed but unmanaged mental health and he's known the Forensic
Disability Unit done in weak All, So you know, so yeah,
(17:43):
I think the unmanaged, unchecked, you know, people that are
living out there with really severe and persistent psychosis or
whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
That's the only time that felt on safe.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah. Typically, you know, when you're working with clients who
are from a custodial setting or now I'm worth it,
the silence seekers there, you know, we're only one piece
of there's lots of other agencies involved with them. So
you know, certainly with the offenders, they weren't really going
to bite the hand that feeds them because we'd be
the conduit to get them into lots of other services
they were reporting to parole. Typically, you know, I've worked
(18:17):
with some of the worst criminals in Queensland, like murderers, rapists, whatever,
some horrendous stories. But no, I you know, as you
go through your career. It was really important for me.
I think when I first started out, I thought, you know,
oh God help, these people are going to do this,
is going to do that. But as you go through
you realize really quickly that you can't do that and
(18:40):
you have to work with the person in front of you,
and their crime is irrelevant. I used to always want
to know what they did, but towards the end, I
didn't want to know because I was I was biginning
to become biased. Sometimes I would front up, But that's
very insightful that you realize that, yeah, yeah, it was
just too hard for me to do my job otherwise
because it would be hard.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Especially with the DV perps. It was really hard for me.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
To to go and work with them and it would
be perceived to be helping them when I knew what
they had done and some of the stuff they did
it was just horrific. But so I decided that' said,
I need to not know that. I just need to
work with that person in front of me. I'm here
to do my job and it's altimes really called and clinical,
but it was survival and it just helped me go
(19:22):
about my job because all the while I'm a single
mom with two kids as well as so I had
my working cap on and then I had to come
and be a mum as well, so I had to
know how to change the huts.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Well, that leads you to my next question. Vicarious trauma
must be quite prevalent within your space. How do you
manage you? How do you look after yourself so that
that doesn't I mean, I have no doubt it's happened,
but how do you manage yourself? Or if you feel
that something's really affected you have you got someone that
(19:54):
you can talk to.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Well. Typically in these roles you do get supervision if
the organizations that you work with, so you meant to
get external supervision or internal supervision with your life manager
or external with another provider.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So that does help.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think being really self aware as well has helped
me along the way. Unfortunately, when I did first start
in the space, I probably drank a little bit too much.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I'd be having my couple.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Of glasses of water a night and it was just like,
you need to get a grip because you're walking in
the door and your children need you. Yes, you've got
your job, but your children need you too, So you know,
I'd find that I would have. You know, I've bede
two glasses of wide a night and I thought, shit,
if anything goes wrong with these two boys and I
need to get them to the hospital, something has a
you know, serious hypo or whatever through the night, and
you know, yes, I would call an ambulance. But that
(20:39):
was that was beside the point, you know, I mean,
it's just you need to stop. You need to get
a grip, because I find like drinking alcohol just help
me forget about the days sometimes, like you know, you've
been dealing with really traumatic incidents and horrible situations and
things that have happened, like horrendous things that have happened
to clients, and you know, you just can't get it
out of your head. And as my career went on,
(21:01):
I think, you know, I could feel my brain getting rewarded.
You literally feel like you friends getting fried. You can
feel the changes, and that's what you could feel like
the burnout was happening. So that's when I loved what
I did. But I wanted to stay in the sector,
but I needed to affect some changes. So I find
naturally not drinking, I find not knowing what the offenses
(21:22):
were and just you know, being more mindful of I
go home and that's what my job's done. I don't
think about work, So I just it took a lot
of efforts.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So do you exercise? I exercise a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I have three times a week, I go to the gym,
I walk. I have a healthy passing interest in your
diet and nutrition. So yeah, just all the things that
you know help you release the endorphins and natural endorphins
and actually feel good and you know, chat with girlfriends,
hang out with my kids, whatever it is I need
to do now, I'm actually find it much easier now
(21:58):
because I'm much older obviously, and and I'm not on
the front line anymore. I manage the staff on the
front line who are out there working with asylum seekers.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So yeah, you now work with asylum seekers. Yes, can
you tell us what the definition of an asylum seeker is?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So they're basically I mean, I didn't know the difference
between refugees and the asylum seekers. So asylum seekers are
someone who've had to flee their country and come into
Australia without being granted the right to stay here like refugees.
So the refugees come in, they come in under the
HSP program, which is the Humanitarian Support program. They get
(22:36):
their visas granted, they fly in typically and they're met
at the airport and off they go, and then they're
managed by different agencies. The asylum seekers are typically the
people that used to arrive by boat but not anymore,
or come in on a tourist visa and then just
let it expire and then apply for protection and are
living in the community illegally and then they try and
(22:56):
apply for protection and it takes forever to get that
haired sometimes. So we have a variety of clients on
or cases. I work with one of the biggest agencies
in Australia who look after asylum seekers and refugees and
many other programs. But and in Queensland we have quite
(23:16):
a lot. We have probably about two hundred asylum seekret
clients on our caseload at the moment so and twenty
and they're managed in the community. There's a variety of
the ones that are in community detention are the ones
that came in by boat and they will never be
settled in Australia unfortunately, and some of them have been
living in community attention for ten plus years. Yeah, so
(23:39):
they have no medicare rights, no work rights, and are
just waiting, waiting, waiting for their status to be resolved.
And the status being resolved means you can only go
back to the country of origin. They go to the
third country, the only country and I accepting them as
New Zealand, America and Canada. We're accepting them, but they're
not anymore. So New Zealand's the only country left. So
(24:00):
we have still quite a large amount of families on
our caseload who are living in community with children. A
lot of single men who came from Larry or Manas
and are now they were brought in from Larry Manas
and Or. I'm not sure you remember on the news.
I can remember seeing it, but I didn't really was
on my radar because I wasn't working in this space.
There was a lot of them held in the Kangary Point.
(24:23):
There was a whole lot of them held it. It's
a Kangary point. So now they're living in detention, community
attention in houses in the community, still on resolve, still
can't work, still of no medicare rights, still waiting, waiting, waiting,
and where they leave, they they get like a really
small I guess they equid look centerly payment. So their
houses are paid for, which you and I and the
taxpaker taxpayer are paying for. The only thing they have
(24:45):
to pay for is their food and their phones. Everything
else is paid for and they get like a small
benefit from the government. And yeah, but their mental health
is just you know, because obviously they've had to flee
some horrific, horrible situations, you know, child soldiers, all sorts
of stuff. Some of the stories are horrendous. And then
and just to be held and held in limbo. I
(25:08):
guess you know custodial sentences. I guess you know when
they're going to end. You have a date, you're getting out.
But here it's just like this abyss of unknown and
they just never know, and you know, just waiting for
their status to be resolved with the Department of Home Affairs.
So that might never It has to happen eventually, but
it may not be that they will never get to
(25:29):
those ones that came by but will never get settled
in Australia. Is those ones that will never that will
never happen. So we're just waiting for them to get
transitioned to New.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Zealand so they will all go to New Zealand or
do some get sent back to.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Some will choose to go back as well. Yeah, are
they then putting themselves? Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Persecution And that's the that's the that's the thing that
sort of slows Like I know that a lot of
them are Sri Lankan and there was the civil war there,
I believe, and now that's no longer. And the ones
that are saying well we can't go back as a
civil war, will government are saying well, you can go
back to civil wars no longer, So you probably need.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
To think about gone back.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So there's just so many, so many issues and things
to be considered.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
And so what is your role in working with the
asylum secrets?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So I have a team of six case managers who
are right in the community helping manage these clients. So
it's to help them, I guess, function get them to
medical appointments, help them with all sorts of stuff that
might be required.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
To maintain their sanity.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I guess, just to maintain their status so they can
remain until they Department Home Affairs make a decision about
how and when are where they will get settled.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So depending on which government is in p yes, does
that have a big play on how it works?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I believe so. And I know that I deal with
a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Of of the Department Home Affairs staff who have seen
many governments come and go, like some of them have
been there for twenty five years, so that you know,
there's you know, it's a different a different change of
government every three or four years, and they just brush
it off and said it just is what it is.
(27:19):
I think there's going to be a change of government
this time. I don't know what it's going to look like,
but we all know that what Peter Dutton's stances on
migration and how that's going to be for a lot
of the existing especially the ones that are in community attention,
the ones that have applied to come here and there
(27:41):
we have a lot of Gaza families out here. Now
we have recently had a huge influx of women from
PNG fleeing. They come here on they come here on
visitors visas and then claim to they can't go back
because of domestic and family violence.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And is that is the violence there towards women?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I do believe is yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
And we have then the Department have to determine if
it's actually they have to see if it's a legitimate reason.
They have to do all their you know, checks and
balances to see if they do have a legitimate protection
visa claim. Sometimes the stories are all signed the same,
so you sort of think, you know that whatever's gone on,
and however they're being told to come here, there're all
(28:29):
been a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
The stories are all the same.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
They come here on a three month tourist visa, let
that expire, and then apply for protection. So somehow it
feels like they're being coached or guided by typically religious
organizations to do that, to get out and they may
have a legitimate claim that.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You know, that may be happening. It's not for me
to say.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
It's up to the government to investigate and determine if yes,
it's a legitimate protection claim. So yeah, it's it's there's
been a huge increase and the demands a lot of
them are coming with children, like families of six and seven,
pregnant whatever, and the demand on the housing sector is
just we had to have like a sector meeting just
(29:12):
before Christmas because you know, the crisis. Accommodation providers are
just they're not funded for this cohort and they were
funded to the end of the year and they've non
got no money and these women are in like crisis
accommodation that are being paid for by the heart four
thousands of the world and stuff like that, but they
have no more funding for it. And it's just like,
what are we going to do with this cohort after December?
(29:33):
There's no more funding and who's going to pay for it?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And yeah, So it's I think a lot of countries.
It's it's such an ethical problem. And you look at
what Germany has just done, which is close the borders
in allowing any asylum seekers in it all. Now France
is wanting to do the same, but it hasn't. America,
(29:58):
Well that's about to change, yeah, yeah, I mean where
do these people?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And I was reading like an article just the other
day about like the amount of Vietnamese that are trying
to get across English channel as well. Now that's the
biggest cohort. There's been a huge increase in people trying
to get across the English Channel. And the ethnicity is
the Vietnamese, which they're saying is one of the fastest
growing economies in the world. They can't understand why they're
(30:29):
trying to flee. So I just was reading that article
yesterday on the on the BBC News. So yeah, it's
certainly a huge problem, and everybody's bursting at the scenes,
especially in the UK, like I don't know, like a
straight up you know, I guess geographic yep. Got the
room for them, for sure, but they don't have the
infrastructure and the housing is just as I said earlier,
(30:50):
it's just gone backwards.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
So it's I.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Don't know, if someone's taking their eye off the pall.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
It's just a mass.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
So is that the number one problem that you perceived? Housing?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Housing? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And what about the kids that come over? What are
they to be schooled?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, they can be schooled, and we have to apply
every twelve months. We have to jump through hoops to
if to apply every twelve months to get an exemption,
so they can't attend school.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yes, yep, so that's something.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And if those kids have come over and say, for example,
child soldiers things like that from say Africa, their only
way of life that they would know violence.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
That for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
How do you work with someone to rewire the brain?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Well, you count that's the thing. They're highly traumatized and
typically they end up committing offenses here and then like
there might have been granted legitimate refugee status, which is
quite a lot of our clients that we are working with,
we're legitimately granted refugee status, but because of their country
of origin, the intergenerational trauma, what they've witnessed, what they've seen,
(32:01):
do end up committing offenses here and if they're sentence
for twelve months or more, they end up they get
they lose their they lose their pr Yeah, the refugee status.
So they're in the community working with us and they
have to start again, and they're at in the community
and what it's called a bridging visa removal ours removal
(32:21):
and their their cases are sitting with Home Affairs to
determine whether or not they will end up being sent
back or whether they can get their status back again
and remain in Australia.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
So are they intermingled within the community through all suburbs, Yeah,
everyone everywhere. How do they find they are treated by Australians.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Look, some of them are fine, like and they just
you know, just want to work, want to focus. Like
Typically the ones that have committed offenses. They can, they've
got they get back out of custody. They're on the
b v R, which means Bridge and visa which means
they can work. Removals pending, which means it's just sitting there.
They can get removed at any point, but they still
can work. And a lot of them just want to
get on with their life and head down, bum up.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
And that's great.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Some of the clients that are in community Attention, particularly
some of the families and the women are really gosh,
I don't want to sense it sounds really awful. Become
quite entitled and quite demanding in terms of you know, well,
I don't want to live in this house. I want
to live in that Highs And you know I want
a three bedroom house. I don't want a two bedroom Highs.
(33:33):
Just stuff like that, and that type of stuff really
is you know, you've got no idea. There's there's a
heising crisis. You're really really lucky to even have a Highs,
you know, so majority, yes, I'd say ninety five percent,
But we have the cohort that just refused to assimilate,
refuse to work with us, refuse to work with the department,
(33:54):
and just create issues.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So what happens with them.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
We have a couple of really tricky cases at the moment.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Look just tipped her around it.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, we have to collaborate with the department, and they're
now on board with my team to help us to
work with one particular really problematic client who has been
refusing to, I guess, live by the rules of her
detention because basically, she's a non citizen.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
She shouldn't be here.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
She came by boat. She's never going to be settled here.
She's waiting to go to America. She applied before the
America option close, so we're just waiting for that to happen.
I somehow don't think it's going to happen because Trump's
coming in, He's closing the borders. He's probably whoever was
told they could get there before. I don't think it's
going to happen anymore. So I don't know where she's going.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
To end up.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
But we've had to we and mean, the department and
our organization have had to take more of a harder
stance with her to she's living in a house that
she shouldn't be living in. Basically, she was granted bridging
visa last August, which means you find your accommodation, you
get a job. She's not done that. She refused to leave,
(35:11):
refused to work, and it's been going on since last August.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So do you think the people that behave like she
is actually came from money? Insteatus where they came from.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
There's a particular nation where that the Iranians a team
to come with a lot of money and a lot
of demands and they want the best off and they
want the flash cars and they want this then feel
a little bit insulted by what they're offered. Somewhat I
personally find Okay, I work. You obviously wouldn't work in
(35:43):
the sector if I didn't have the empathy in the
care and the sympathy or whatever it is. But that
type of behavior I find really hard to accept. You know,
there's a lot of people that have got absolutely zib
zero's elch that a roof over their head and you
want to getosh clothes for your child?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Sorry God, is that still a thing?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
The thing when now kids are.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Little obviously in around but yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
We couldn't afford it. Yeah, I don't can.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Party whatever it is, absolutely you just the.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Best thing you ever when you get christ like the
birthdays of.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Christmas Camart, No way, I'm not clothes on my child
or target whatever it is. This is like that type
of attitude really doesn't doesn't sit well with me and
doesn't sit well with you know, the workers in the sector.
But you know, we have to just accept that and
try and work with that. And look, you know, there's
(36:38):
a lot of trauma there for that particular client. There's
a diagnose but not medicated mental health issues, refuses to
engage in mental health, refuses to accept the diagnosis. It's
conspiracy whatever it is she feels it is. So yeah, yeah,
so it's you know, there's lots of tricky, tricky elements
(36:59):
to it. So again we just have to front up
and do the best we can and hopefully get the
best outcome for the client and for the you know,
you know, the government are funding our program, so we
have to work with the government too. So you know,
we're the front line, non non government organization, you know,
working in the space, working with a dysfunction, working with
the challenges. We walk the journeys with the client. The
(37:23):
government just issued the orders, we have to deliver it,
so which at times, can be it can peak your
and you know, it might not sit well with your
values and your beliefs, but it is what it is.
And I guess I'm much further down the path in
my career. I guess I'm not saying become called. I'm
(37:45):
more practical, realistic, practical. I know, I hear what you're saying.
As I said in my case, I know I hear
what you're saying, and we talk it through. However, this
is what we have to do. Unfortunately, you know, I've
been where they've been really impacted, really felt it. You know,
this can't be right, and it's not right.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
It's shit. The system sucks, it's unfair.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
But we're just better than a lot of countries, absolutely,
And you know, we're only a little dot and a
microcosm of bullshit that we just have to you know,
our voices. We can only do the best we can
to work with in this space. And and I guess,
you know, it is a whole systemic thing. And I
don't know what the answer is in terms of, you know,
do we stop letting people.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
In and cap it or whatever it is? Like, I know,
it sort of feels.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Like the government or maybe making a decision, you know,
on the run they realize I think it was, didn't
They say there was eighty thousand more people let in
than then planed to. So that's a huge and yeah,
that's why now there's a housing crisis, and the housing
housing organizations saying, well, actually it's it's it's not a
supply problem, it's a demand problem, or so in the
(38:52):
government sayings supply problem.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, so exactly does it matter what it is? There's
no fricking houses for anyone, so affordable housing.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
What can we do to help, you know, these asylums
seekers that are in our community? I mean me being me.
I there's people I know that have come across from
Iran and different places, and I always make sure I
say hello and nice and you know, is that more
than enough? Or is there more that we could be doing.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I think it's a personal thing, really, isn't it too?
It depends like what your biases and whatever it is,
whatever you know you personally feel towards them. And I
think being educated and knowing that they're right there in
the community and living in the community. But I think,
you know that could that could be enough? Just making
them feel included. Yeah, I just acknowledging them. They're all
(39:45):
human beings at the end of.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
The day, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Civity is Yeah, we're just take the skin off. We're
all the same skeleton underneath, so we're just human beings.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You cut through that skin, we're all the same color.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
That's right, Jerry.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I've really enjoyed my chat with you.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You have been so interesting and thank you so honest,
which I've find everyone in here tends to be. They
just want to let people know what it's really like
in their roles and what they do and what's happening
in the community. And I just think, once again, I
do bang on about kindness, but I think kindness is invaluable.
(40:21):
And maybe you know, if any of you out there listening,
do know someone that's a asylums thinker, or do just
know someone that's a refuge and they're living in the
house besides or a unit or whatever
Speaker 1 (40:32):
You know, just say fine, yeah, yeah, it doesn't take much,
just a smile at them.
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