May 18, 2025 • 30 mins
While Bek is taking a short break, please enjoy one of her earlier episodes!
This episode we're joined by Nic Bignall from Therapy and Support animals Australia. Nic and Bek explore the value of therapy dogs in the health setting and the value they offer patients and nurses.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appogie production. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to
Tenderness for Nurses. Do you need to burn out to
have those insights? While I'm talking about it now? But
you know, keen to educate the world about it. But
I didn't want anyone to know that I was so unwell.
(00:26):
I don't know when it was ever okay to yell
or scream or abuse somebody. We need to have support
and know where to look for support, and know how
to look after ourselves, not just professionally, but personally as well.
It was quite profound and I learned a lot from
that one action. Good morning, Nick, Thank you for coming
(00:49):
on Tenderness for Nurses today. We've got more here as well.
She's a sheeper Noodle. Nick owns and runs the Amazing
Therapy and Support Animals Australia, which helps develop support dogs
and therapy dogs for clinics for healthcare.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, basically we train dogs for anyone, like everyone should
be training their dogs so they're contributing happy member of
the family. There's nothing worse. So when you go out
to a coffee shop and try and have a relax
and all of a sudden there's a dog screeching and
barking and carrying on like a lunatic in the coffee shop.
And they're the dogs that give dogs in public a
bad name. So firstly, I think everyone should be trained,
(01:27):
and I do do a lot of family dogs as well.
But in relation to the actual therapy assistance dog school
dogs sort of work, yeah, we do it for schools.
I've got quite a few dogs in schools around Queensland,
from Mariba down to the Gold Coast. I've got a
dog in a psychology office down in Melbourne and another
dog in a corporate environment down in Melbourne as well,
(01:50):
So I traveled down once a year to assess those and.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You've got longer, perfectly smooth I do.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
We've got dentist dogs, So we have a lot of
dogs that are trained and will also go to NDIS
recipients and provide some support for them.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Are they support dogs then or therapy dogs?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Support and therapy dogs are very much the same, so
assistance dog is the difference between them. So a therapy
dog or a support dog and an assistance dogs are
all very very different. Therapy and support dogs are trained
to help multiple people, and assistance dog is a dog
that's trained to provide a higher level of life.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For their owner. Okay, so they can go into hospitals
on airplanes exactly, they can go anywhere without being invited.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Basically, therapy dogs and support dogs, we have to be
invited on site. You may have seen us at the
airport last week of school holidays, so we were there
at a public environment, but we were invited on site
by Brisbane Airport Corporation and that's something that we're looking
at doing every school holidays going forward.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So let's go back a little bit. Nick and I
have known each other for quite a period of time
and I've been through a bit of a rough patch
and I got Lola and then took a start taking
her into the clinic and doing great there, but not fantastic.
And I also wanted to make sure that she was
(03:10):
well trained, she had certification, she had insurance that we
were doing the right thing, not just by Lola, but
also you know, by my clients. So I got in
touch with Nick and went out and did a two
weekend really intensive course, and then we did the third
weekend of the actual therapy training where I got trained,
which I really needed it. I was that one person
(03:32):
that cried and Lola had to do some tests. We
had to walk up a travel later, she had to
walk through a shopping center. She had to do a
sit and stay for two minutes with me out of sight.
It's really full on. And I went home as exhausted
as Lola did those two weekends, like it really took
a lot out of all of us. After watching you
(03:54):
guys train these dogs, I was blown away by your knowledge.
And we had Matt who is a current police officer
in the dog squad, years and years of experience. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So basically I got my first dog when I was sixteen.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
He was his name was Boogie.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
He was a big German shepherd. I was that child
when I was growing up that would always come home
with stray dogs. So dogs have been affiliated in my life.
We used to go camping every May Holidays with my
grandparents in their van, and every day I'd come back
from the beach with a different dog. Back then, dogs
used to roam the school yard all the time, like
it was just a thing in schools, and I'd take
them home. I remember one day it took home a
(04:29):
Dalmatian and a Red Setter. So I was that child,
So dogs have always been part of my life.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
But the aners went too happy.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Mum wasn't happy that I had a desire also to
be a police officer. So what I did was I
wanted to combine those two things. So in nineteen ninety
I got into the police force, and then in ninety two,
I think it was I got into the police dog
squad and from there I did about twenty odd years
in the dog squad. There so I trained specialist dogs,
(04:56):
bomb dogs, explosive fire arms detection dogs, drug dogs, accelerant
detection dogs for fire scenes, and GP which are the
tracking biting dogs. So soone to camps from a criminal
offense like a break in or a assault something like that,
we're called on the scene, we tracked the offender to
the track and we apprehend the offender. I'm pretty broken
(05:17):
now as a result of how much fun I had.
So I got out of the police in about twenty ten.
Around then, I didn't do much dog training except for
my own dogs. I still had dogs, and a few
years later I ended up in Kenya in Africa, and
I trained up. I spent for a half months over
there training up and Explosive Detection Dog Center for a
very large security company over there. So then I came
(05:39):
back and I had a grooming business, very busy dreaming
business that i'd started. In between those two things, the
old arthritis in the hands were playing havoc. So this
whole therapy dog then got under my skin. And I
had a beautiful Golden Retriever called Zach at the time,
and I thought he'd be a beautiful therapy dog. So yeah,
it sort of developed from there. I went and did
another course, and then I sort of saw a few
(06:01):
gaps in the market where I thought the training could
be a little bit and people could start understanding things
like calming signals and how to read your dog. Dogs
don't speak English, as we know, we need to find
a way to communicate with dogs on their level so
they understand what we want. Because a lot of the
behaviors we want out of dogs is foreign to a dog.
A dog doesn't have to know how to walk loose
(06:22):
on leash if it's living in the bush or a
wild dog or a fox whatever. So these behaviors are
behaviors that humans want. So we need to learn to
communicate with a dog on a level that they understand
to show them what we want. So that's where I
spoke to Dean. Dean's the breed manager and puppy Development
Officer of Queens and Polease Dog Squad, So we sort
(06:43):
of chatted about it. Anyway, Therapy in Support Animals Australia
was sort of born at that time, and yeah, we've
just gone from strength to strength.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So we do do.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
A lot of therapy dogs, a lot of assistance dogs basics.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Then we do the normal dog.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
As well, just so people can have a happy, healthy
household with the dog involved in that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I mean, Nola is not perfect and I do work
with her every day with practice and training and different
little techniques. And will we're going to go on and
do the trick course. Yes, but it's fascinating. And you
said this when we did the training, that we will
really notice stressed dogs when you go to the park
or when you go somewhere. It is so true. I
(07:22):
can now look at a dog and know, oh my gosh,
it's really not a happy dog. Even though it might
look like it's happy, it's really not showing signals that
like the big yawn, you know, the cowering, the freezing,
the freezing, licking the lips. Yeah, them sort of averting
the eyes, you know, all that sort of stuff that
I suppose it's common sense, but you need It's like kids,
you sometimes need to be told about Well, most people
(07:44):
have never heard of calming signals, and I had it no,
and ninety percent of people on our courses never have.
So if anyone's listening, they're like, what are calming signals?
It's a behavior that your dog does, or any dog does,
in order to calm itself down or calm the situation down.
And the good thing about that is us being aware
of that. Now we can actually throw calming signals back
to the dog to bring the dog out of stress.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Why do we want to bring a dog out of stress?
Because a stress dog can't problem solve, and a dog
that can't problem solve isn't going to be a good
therapy dog, and it's going to be a stress dog,
which creates anxieties in a dog, same as with people.
If we don't know how to calm ourselves down out
of a stressful situation, it just keeps escalating into a
situation that it's not a happy environment for everyone. And
(08:29):
the other thing to remember is a stress dog, a
dog that's so up in its own head, it can't learn.
What's really important is to bring the dog back out
of stress to then develop the dog's skills by teaching
it it's okay, I'm here, I'm going to look after
you work with me. You're going to get what you
love and I'm going to get what I love, and
we're going to be a good team. So that's where
calming signals in dog training are essential.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Well, it's funny because you had said to me my
bond with Lola would improve dramatically. I just didn't think
it could, and it absolutely has. She is just next
level loyal in the clinic. I now know when she's stress.
But the interesting thing I've noticed with her is when
we've got clients that are really stressed and she's quite
(09:12):
happy to sit on their lap, but it's her behaviors
when she hops off, it's like she's picked up their
stress and she does that big serotonin dump and shakes
it out, and then it's actually made me aware that, Okay,
I've had a big day here, it's been quite a
stressful day. I'm looking at Lola's signals, so I know
it's been stressful. If she's feeling that way how am
(09:34):
I feeling? And I know that sounds sort of a
bit strange, but I've actually been using her as a
gauge on myself and my emotions, and it's quite interesting.
When I see her really shattered, I know, I go
home and I'm shattered that night.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I think it's really important for people who are sitting
back thinking, gee, is this something i'd love to do.
I've got a dog that you know I'd love it.
You've got to realize that that's a lot of emotion
for a dog. So you also don't want to burn
your dog out. The school dogs and things that I
have around the place, or the clinic dogs they have
time out during the day. They have a crate in
their office. So if the situation becomes slightly stressful, or
(10:14):
the dog becomes overwhelmed, or if something's happening to the
degree that the handler can't actually concentrate on what the
dog's doing and everything's going bad, pop the dog in
the crate, pull the cover over it, and walk away.
The dog's safe, the dog's happy, it's content because they
should be great trade and then go deal with the situation.
And the other part is don't overload a dog. If
you have a big day or two big days of
(10:35):
really stress on the dog, the dog's not going to
end up wanting to go to work. So you've got
to be kind to the dog to give it time out.
A lot of people think, and I've had a few
skill principles, thinking that a therapy dog is like a pen.
You purchase it, you stick it in the office, and
anyone can come and pick up that pen, use it
and put it back on the desk. Totally incorrect. The
(10:55):
dog in a therapy situation is one dog, one handler,
and I'll only.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Certify people who live together.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
It is so essential that that owner and the dog
are on a working relationship where the trainer and handler
owner is aware of the dog's calming signals and can
understand their own dog. Because if you leave a dog
in a highly stressful situation where it's yawning, say if
you've got a child in the room and the child's
acting in appropriately to the dog, pulling its tail, poking
in the eye, whatever, and the dog's throwing new calming signals,
(11:23):
and you can't read those calming signals. And as the
pack leader and the handler look after your dog enough
to remove it from that situation, the next step could
be a bite, which no one wants. So that's why
it's not a pen. A dog, a therapy dog is
not a pen. It's a living, breathing creature with emotions,
with its own brain that still needs to be looked after.
They're an amazing tool in the therapy world.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
They really are.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
But it's not a tool that everyone can use.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And it's one of those things setting boundaries because everyone
thinks that, you know, you can when she's working, Yes,
you can go up and pat her or yeah, but
you can't. She's working, and she's working for me. Yes,
people are now coming in and asking for her, which
I find fascinating, and she will sit on their lap.
I put a little blanket down, and she really likes working.
(12:11):
I suppose dogs want to work done, Yes, they do.
They like pleasing you know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You gotta remember a dog is a pack animal, so
they want to please the pack hierarchy. And they love us,
you know, like I've got multiple dogs and they all
love me. And I've nearly said how many I've got.
I nearly let that slip. I've got multiple dogs, but
I'm the boss of the household. Like I've got entire males.
I've got entire females. Come the time when the females
come in heat, I've got two entire males. It's a
(12:35):
lot of responsibility, but as the pack leader, I'm actually
able to control the dogs under any situation. And that's
not cruelty. It's just because they know I'm boss. Therapy
dogs have to be taught to be calm. If you
don't reward calm behavior, you're going to get crazy behavior,
which would not work in your scenario. I've got another
tiny littlekerverdle that I had on a stand trained program
(12:57):
that I raised for two dentists, and she's in a
dentistry into Woomba and she's kicking goals like you wouldn't believe.
Does anyone like going to the dentists. I certainly don't,
especially for little children. And they're using her in their
clinic and kicking goals like because the kids, Yeah, it's
horrible going the dentists, but they love Lola because she's
got calm behavior, so she's not jumping on the kids,
(13:18):
she's not making the kids fearful. All she's there to
do is to bring them kids out of that heightened
state and bring them back down to a nice, even temperament.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
She does. And I don't think there's any other clinic
of what I do, like cosmetic dermatology, that has a
certified and trained dog in their clinic like Lola is.
We really are leaders, absolutely and really unique, and I
think there's a big space for I hope healthcare definitely.
I really hope that people listening to this think about
(13:47):
it and go forward, because if you go over in
America or Europe, dogs are everywhere, and they're so.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Big in every stressful environment. Dogs make such good therapy
anals because they absorb people's emotions, but that can also
be detriment to their own health. The vest that we've
got on, they're only on them when they're in a therapy,
and that's correct. Yes, they learn once this vest is
on them, they're working, so they learn to go to people.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
They learn they can't go to the toilet.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The same as when I was a police dog handler,
a harness to my police dog meant okay, we're going
to track this little jacket to these dogs mean okay,
I'm going to go and deal with people's emotions.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
And it really does make a difference. Yeah, she changes
when I put this on her and she's.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Calmness comes upon them and she's very happy, Like it's
like a little proud, she's really proud.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's the cutest thing ever.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And the thing is, not every dog is suitable to
be a therapy dog. Like dogs that go through my
stay and trained program are probably more likely too, because
I've been raising dogs since i've you know, was a
child myself, so I install the right behaviors. But a
lot of people don't know about these behaviors and training,
so they reward the wrong behaviors. And I know the
(14:55):
lady you're talking, Matt, and her dog wasn't brought up
with calm behaviors, but she's doing the best she can
to get her dog to the situation dog too. Yeah, yeah,
most dogs are, you know, it's that what goes into
them that's going to make the difference. Well, I didn't
think Lola was going to pass no, no, but she
was the worst in the class. You're very epimemorphic. So
for people who don't know what that means, that's putting
(15:18):
human traits on animals. So yeah, you know a little bit,
you know, who love you for that, But all that
does is confused as a dog. A dog doesn't have
human emotions. A dog doesn't have a digestive tract like humans.
A dog has dog emotions and digestive tracts of a
wild dog or the wild forebearers. And that's why we
(15:39):
need to treat them. Even though they're a very valuable
member of our family or our work at life, we
still must treat them like dogs because otherwise all we
do so we stress them, and we cause confusion in
their brains.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, well she does now know who Alpha is, and
she gets fed after us, and she lets me go
through the door first. So yeah, it was a little
bit of a funny situation. When I was doing the training,
Nick was doing some other things with the dogs, and
Matt was doing the training with me, and I could
feel myself getting really upset because Lola wouldn't look at Matt,
(16:11):
wouldn't look at me, wouldn't take food. She was hungry,
because we take the dogs hungry. She was being feral.
Every other dog saw Matt or Nick would just fall
over themselves to please them. Lola wasn't having a bar
of anybody. And Matt said to me, does she hate man?
And I went oh, yeah, she does.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You should probably stay tune. Matt's about six foot three
and he's a big man too, the big man with
a beer, and he's a big, dominant, very alpha. Yeah yeah,
and she was not bowing to him, and every other
dog couldn't please him fast enough.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
But Lola terrible. We were creating the dogs while we're
having break and we're having mourning tea, and I could
feel myself getting really upset, really upset, and I went
put her in the crate and my eyes were welling up,
and I was like, she's going to fail. She's the
worst dog. Here's like, you know your kids are failing
at school. It's so bad. Came out and Matt was
(17:04):
so lovely. He came up to me and he goes,
are you okay? And no word of a lie. I
burst into tears and I said, just give me a moment.
I had to walk away, and I walked out for it.
And Nick's got this beautiful property out at Samford, and
you know, I went still on a little ledge and
there's beautiful horses and trees in the battle like it's
really calming and beautiful and bless him. Matt came over
(17:27):
to speak with me and then I just did this,
Well maybe it was a serotonin dump. I just did
this complete dump of everything I'd recently been through, why
I've got Lola. And all I could say to him
was I've ruined my dog. And he was looking at me, going,
this woman's but enough. I went back, He's going, we'll
(17:49):
get her there. We will get her there. And you
know what, last run of the day we did the
two minutes out of side. He was determined to he
knew Lola could do it, and he was determined because
you were less stressed too. All I know is that
something shifted at that moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
One of the interesting things, and we hear it quite
a bit, is people say, at the end of the course,
I learned a lot about me, not just about the dog.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Oh. Absolutely, it's really interesting. I sometimes wonder if I
did it for me more than Lola, it would be honest.
And it really did work, and it's changed my outlook
on dog handling what Lola needs.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But you weren't aware of how in change she was
with your needs, So your anxiety was actually passing on
to your dog.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah. I had no idea. I thought she was helping me,
but I didn't realize that she was. I think you
explained it, but she was trying to be the alpha
in our relationship. She was taking on that stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
To change and she's not that sort of dog that
she can do that. Dogs that aren't alpha dogs can't
take on the alpha role because all it does is
makes them nervous, which is what she was coming through with. Yeah,
if anyone's got a puppy at home or thinking of
getting a puppy at home, vets and the vet industry
smash it into us. Dictate the dog out until they're
(19:03):
fully vaccinated after twelve weeks of age, usually thirteen fourteen
weeks of age. It is important, but it's just as
important to get environmental training into your dog.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
So do it safely.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
When I have my stay in trains, and what a
stay in train is, I take puppies from eight weeks
of age from breeders for people who have purchased their dogs,
and I spend four weeks twenty eight days raising that
puppy for them toilet training, create training. And the reason
for that is up to sixteen to twenty weeks of
age is a critical imprinting for dogs. So what environments
you don't get into a dog in that time can
(19:35):
actually develop into a fear for that dog going forward.
So all the dogs I have, we go to work sites,
we go to shopping centers, we go to parks. And
when I say that I have a hatchback car, I
put a crate in the back, put four or five
puppies in, and I'll go and sit outside of a
busy coffee shop. I'll have a coffee while the dogs
watch the world go round. You know it's good at
(19:55):
school time because the kids coming out on their bikes,
thess screaming, the yahooing. Work sites good because of the
jackhammers and the guns, that sort of thing. Another really
good life that I did was a car wash puppies
car wash. Audrey who's now about three. When I first
took her to a car wash, she was terrified of
the noises, like there's all people running, there's noises. So
(20:16):
I didn't hide from that, never hide from training issues.
The next time I went back, I took her hungry
and I fed her in that environment. So now she
loves that environment. So really really important to get as
many different sound sites and smells, people, animals, but safely
don't go to dog parks. Don't put them on the ground.
If you've got a small dog, carry them, leave them
in your car, take a mat. Yeah, you're raising puppies,
(20:38):
but you got to remember you're raising a dog. It's
not going to be a puppy all its life. It's
going to be a dog. So think where you want
that dog to go. So if you're a nurse, or
you're a psychologist or an occupational therapist and you want
that dog to work in that environment when it's two,
when it's four, you have to start that training immediately
because the sounds, the smells.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So do you think therapy dogs? I know there are
groups that do go into hospitals with therapy dogs. Do
you think it'll get to the stage where they're just
on the woods or look?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I'd like to think so. I think Australia are a
long way off. The big thing is that people who
have allergies or have nationalities with fears of dogs, and
because we're so multicultural, we've got to take that into
consideration for everyone, which is why when we were developing
the policy and procedures for working at the airport, they
were discussing walking around the airport with a dog and
(21:30):
I said, no, we need to be in a stationary position.
People can come and see us if they want to
see us, because it's not fair if we're going to
help some people's fears about flying with a dog, but
then we increase someone else's fear of dogs before they fly, Like,
that's not a fair situation. So BAC were amazing. They said, yeah,
great idea. So we have a stationary location. All those
(21:52):
things have to be taken into consideration.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
I hope it continues to grow, you know, like look
at the schools, yeah, particularly the private schools. They're smashing
it with the therapy yeah, and support dogs.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
They are unfortunately in Queensland Educational looking at pulling dogs
from state schools, which is ridiculous, makes no sense to me.
But I don't know the reason behind it or anything.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Like that, which is crazy because the amount of work
they do and how fantastic they are with helping the kids.
Kids will read to a dog where they won't read
to a human because there's no judgment. They're storybook dogs.
They're different.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I think what queens On Education is saying is none
of their employees can be the handler of the dog.
So I believe they're saying, if there's a third party
business that you can pay to bring in a dog,
then that's okay. But no employee of Queensland Health will
be taking a therapy dog to school, which you know, yeah,
(22:43):
I have therapy dogs, not for hire, but that's part
of my business too.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
We do corporate events and things like that.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But I'm not going to be on site for when
something traumatic's happened in a child's life and it turns
up at school and loses the plot. So having a
dog on site, you're able to deal with that situation
a lot quicker than calling me, getting me ready, getting
the dog ready. A lot of work goes into prepping
these dogs before they go to work, too, so it's
not as easy as I just grabbed the dog from
(23:09):
the backyard, throw it in the car and off we go.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Because you've trained dogs are already in state school system. Yeah, yeah, lots.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And tomorrow I'm actually going to reassess Burton Finley, who
are two dogs at the PA Hospital any Ward In particular,
I know one of the dogs works better for clients patients,
I should say, and then one dog works better for staff,
So I'll go in to terristic. Yeah, but once again
the owner handler is aware of the situation and Meghan
(23:36):
she handles it quite well. She knows what dog to
use in what situation.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So how exciting. And they've been received really well.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah they've been there for a few years now, Okay,
so yeah, Megan's worked for the hospital there for quite
some years and Burton Finley have been going, we'll hear
about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I mean, I think that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, I don't know, it is wonderful once you start researching,
and if you have a look overseas, they're everywhere. Overseas,
they're in physio departments for kids, like people have had
strokes or you know, spinal injuries. They use them everywhere.
They are such a force to be reckoned with and
they make such a difference. But I just don't think
Australia are there people in management could be scared of
(24:14):
the people who don't want it, and it's changed where overseas.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
You see them on.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Planes, you see them everywhere, and you see them at airports.
But then irresponsible handlers who raise dogs with issues are
also partly to blame for that because people go, look
at that dog. That's why dogs shouldn't be in a
coffee shop, or that's why that dog shouldn't be in
shopping centers. So I think that's really part of it
as well. And you're never going to make everyone happy.
(24:40):
I mean that's life, hey, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
So if you're giving a takeaway for any suggestion or
tips around training a dog, what would your number one
tip be for dog ownership?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Teach can't behaviors, treat a dog like a dog and anxiety. Yeah,
I know, but people don't. And I love my dogs
like you know me back. I love my dogs. My
dogs sleep on my bed. My dogs are allowed on
the lounge when I say they're allowed to. If I
say off, they've got to get off. But I love
my dogs. They are a huge part of my life.
But I treat my dogs like dogs still, because if
(25:12):
you don't treat a dog like a dog, you are
causing so much confusion in their brain. Because there's so
many dogs out there with separation anxiety and fears of
this and fears of that. Why do you think you
never see separation anxiety or other anxieties? And police dogs
in raft, dogs in army, dogs in prison, dogs in
muster dogs, any dogs that work on a farm. Why
(25:36):
do you know why because it treated like dogs. Because
they're treated like dogs, and that doesn't cause confusion in
a dog's brain. The dog knows what you want and
what to expect. Where if you're treating a dog like
a human, a dog doesn't understand that, like a dog
doesn't know that you're dressing it in clothes. Dog doesn't
need to wear clothes or really want to wear clothes.
(25:57):
I'm not making upsetting anyone out there, but it's not essential.
So a dog's primary thing is reproduction and food. That's
that's how basic dogs are. So if you over complicated
dog's brain.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
It's just going to confuse it.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And that's why with our training and all our people
have done, my course probably gone black and white because
that's what we say black and white. White is praise, love, food,
pats black is a correction. No, we are balanced trainers.
We aren't positive only trainers, because I think in my
world that causes confusion. But saying that there's very little
black and there's a lot a lot of white, there's
(26:32):
a lot of love in the dog's brain. If it's
chewing an electric cord, because that could kill us, kill
the dog burn the house down whatever no means, don't
do it. And as soon as the dog stops doing it,
I praise it.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
That's a girl, that's a fella.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So the dog lends Okay, I don't want to do that.
I want Mum to love me, so I do what
Mum wants me to do. If you adopted a child
from Africa who only spoke Swahili, who was fifteen and
only ever spokes Swahili in his life, would you continue
to speak English to him or would you find some
sort of a way to communicate on some sort of level.
You know, it's the same with dogs. They don't speak English,
they don't speak words. They don't understand that, you know,
(27:08):
Christmas Day they're going to get lots of presents. Yeah,
they don't understand that their birthday they're going to you know, man,
then every day is the same to a dog. It
appreciates love, It appreciates food, you know, appreciates boundaries, oh
one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And that's another thing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
People don't like putting boundaries on dogs because they think
that's cruel.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
To me.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
In my way of thinking, I think it's cruel if
you don't give dogs boundaries same as children.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
She's much happier since she's had boundaries put in place.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well, she's not confused back. She knows what's expected. And
you've got to think dogs are pack animals. They have
to know what the next person or next level are
want from them, and if they don't, that's when the
confusion starts in their brain. So going back, I would say,
can't behaviors and treat them like dogs. Love them, love
them all you want, but still be kind enough to
(27:57):
them to not confuse their brain. It's the same as
we can eat onions, and we can eat garlic, we
can eat chocolate because that's our thing. Wouldn't be feeding
those foods to a dog because it's toxic to them,
So we shouldn't be putting other human traits on them
as well, expecting that to make a happy, healthy dog,
because it doesn't. So yeah, love them, love them hard,
(28:17):
but also treat them like a dog, you know, and
you'll find a they love you more. And especially if
you start throwing calming signals back to a dog, it's
going to go holy dooly you you understand me, you're
communicating back to me? Ya, Lola loves that. Yeah, when
I throw on a yawn, Yeah, I feel like an idiot. Everybody,
don't start sniffing the ground back. People start eking you're weird,
(28:38):
but yeah, but do it. Because the dog gets so
much appreciation of the fact that it's understands what you want.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
We might wrap it up there. It's therapy and support
Animals Australia. Yep Nick is based here in Brisbane. Do
you mind if I talk about how much it cost?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So it was fourteen hundred sixteen eighty for the four
day course, sixteen eighty for the four day course and
five point fifty for the certificates.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Best money I have spent.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And there's always been a long long time.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Lots of follow up too.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Like I always say to people after courses, if you're
having trouble with something, video it and send it to me.
For the reason being that people are going to look
at what the dog's doing and they're not going to
see what I'm doing, or it's probably something the handler's
doing that they're not aware of. So people can video
it send it to me. I can make an informed
decision and go try ABC and D and normally it's
pretty simple. I don't believe in training online because I
(29:32):
think it's timing with dog training is so important.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I'll put up nixed details if you are at all
interested in developing a therapy dog. I can't rate it
high enough. It has been life changing, just doing the
course work and then going on and doing the therapy dog training,
and just going out for the first day with Lola
to qut and just watching her work through her little
(29:55):
bits of anxiety but she did it. And beautiful people
that are doing the therapy dog.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But it also makes you feel good giving back to
people like strangers. Absolutely, He's got one last story. I
got invited to breast screen with the thropy dogs. I
went down with Audrey, who's my three year old labrydoodle.
She's not huge on men off lead on lead, she
knows she's working.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
She's fine.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The waiting room was full of people, unfortunately who women
were coming and going constantly during the day having different scans.
One man there was highly stressed. Audrey went and sat
on his feet the whole time, you know what I mean,
And he's just like patting and going. This is what
I needed because it was a very very bad situation
for him and his wife and made the world a
difference you give back, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Absolutely, Thanks Nick, and yeah we'll put all the details
up in the show notes. And also just little heads up,
you get to cut off puppies at the train. Okay,
it's so much fun. Thanks harm I really appreciate your pleasure.
Appogie production. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to
Tenderness for Nurses. Do you need to burn out to
have those insights? While I'm talking about it now? But
you know, keen to educate the world about it. But
I didn't want anyone to know that I was so unwell.
(00:26):
I don't know when it was ever okay to yell
or scream or abuse somebody. We need to have support
and know where to look for support, and know how
to look after ourselves, not just professionally, but personally as well.
It was quite profound and I learned a lot from
that one action. Good morning, Nick, Thank you for coming
(00:49):
on Tenderness for Nurses today. We've got more here as well.
She's a sheeper Noodle. Nick owns and runs the Amazing
Therapy and Support Animals Australia, which helps develop support dogs
and therapy dogs for clinics for healthcare.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, basically we train dogs for anyone, like everyone should
be training their dogs so they're contributing happy member of
the family. There's nothing worse. So when you go out
to a coffee shop and try and have a relax
and all of a sudden there's a dog screeching and
barking and carrying on like a lunatic in the coffee shop.
And they're the dogs that give dogs in public a
bad name. So firstly, I think everyone should be trained,
(01:27):
and I do do a lot of family dogs as well.
But in relation to the actual therapy assistance dog school
dogs sort of work, yeah, we do it for schools.
I've got quite a few dogs in schools around Queensland,
from Mariba down to the Gold Coast. I've got a
dog in a psychology office down in Melbourne and another
dog in a corporate environment down in Melbourne as well,
(01:50):
So I traveled down once a year to assess those and.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You've got longer, perfectly smooth I do.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
We've got dentist dogs, So we have a lot of
dogs that are trained and will also go to NDIS
recipients and provide some support for them.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Are they support dogs then or therapy dogs?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Support and therapy dogs are very much the same, so
assistance dog is the difference between them. So a therapy
dog or a support dog and an assistance dogs are
all very very different. Therapy and support dogs are trained
to help multiple people, and assistance dog is a dog
that's trained to provide a higher level of life.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For their owner. Okay, so they can go into hospitals
on airplanes exactly, they can go anywhere without being invited.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Basically, therapy dogs and support dogs, we have to be
invited on site. You may have seen us at the
airport last week of school holidays, so we were there
at a public environment, but we were invited on site
by Brisbane Airport Corporation and that's something that we're looking
at doing every school holidays going forward.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So let's go back a little bit. Nick and I
have known each other for quite a period of time
and I've been through a bit of a rough patch
and I got Lola and then took a start taking
her into the clinic and doing great there, but not fantastic.
And I also wanted to make sure that she was
(03:10):
well trained, she had certification, she had insurance that we
were doing the right thing, not just by Lola, but
also you know, by my clients. So I got in
touch with Nick and went out and did a two
weekend really intensive course, and then we did the third
weekend of the actual therapy training where I got trained,
which I really needed it. I was that one person
(03:32):
that cried and Lola had to do some tests. We
had to walk up a travel later, she had to
walk through a shopping center. She had to do a
sit and stay for two minutes with me out of sight.
It's really full on. And I went home as exhausted
as Lola did those two weekends, like it really took
a lot out of all of us. After watching you
(03:54):
guys train these dogs, I was blown away by your knowledge.
And we had Matt who is a current police officer
in the dog squad, years and years of experience. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So basically I got my first dog when I was sixteen.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
He was his name was Boogie.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
He was a big German shepherd. I was that child
when I was growing up that would always come home
with stray dogs. So dogs have been affiliated in my life.
We used to go camping every May Holidays with my
grandparents in their van, and every day I'd come back
from the beach with a different dog. Back then, dogs
used to roam the school yard all the time, like
it was just a thing in schools, and I'd take
them home. I remember one day it took home a
(04:29):
Dalmatian and a Red Setter. So I was that child,
So dogs have always been part of my life.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
But the aners went too happy.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Mum wasn't happy that I had a desire also to
be a police officer. So what I did was I
wanted to combine those two things. So in nineteen ninety
I got into the police force, and then in ninety two,
I think it was I got into the police dog
squad and from there I did about twenty odd years
in the dog squad. There so I trained specialist dogs,
(04:56):
bomb dogs, explosive fire arms detection dogs, drug dogs, accelerant
detection dogs for fire scenes, and GP which are the
tracking biting dogs. So soone to camps from a criminal
offense like a break in or a assault something like that,
we're called on the scene, we tracked the offender to
the track and we apprehend the offender. I'm pretty broken
(05:17):
now as a result of how much fun I had.
So I got out of the police in about twenty ten.
Around then, I didn't do much dog training except for
my own dogs. I still had dogs, and a few
years later I ended up in Kenya in Africa, and
I trained up. I spent for a half months over
there training up and Explosive Detection Dog Center for a
very large security company over there. So then I came
(05:39):
back and I had a grooming business, very busy dreaming
business that i'd started. In between those two things, the
old arthritis in the hands were playing havoc. So this
whole therapy dog then got under my skin. And I
had a beautiful Golden Retriever called Zach at the time,
and I thought he'd be a beautiful therapy dog. So yeah,
it sort of developed from there. I went and did
another course, and then I sort of saw a few
(06:01):
gaps in the market where I thought the training could
be a little bit and people could start understanding things
like calming signals and how to read your dog. Dogs
don't speak English, as we know, we need to find
a way to communicate with dogs on their level so
they understand what we want. Because a lot of the
behaviors we want out of dogs is foreign to a dog.
A dog doesn't have to know how to walk loose
(06:22):
on leash if it's living in the bush or a
wild dog or a fox whatever. So these behaviors are
behaviors that humans want. So we need to learn to
communicate with a dog on a level that they understand
to show them what we want. So that's where I
spoke to Dean. Dean's the breed manager and puppy Development
Officer of Queens and Polease Dog Squad, So we sort
(06:43):
of chatted about it. Anyway, Therapy in Support Animals Australia
was sort of born at that time, and yeah, we've
just gone from strength to strength.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So we do do.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
A lot of therapy dogs, a lot of assistance dogs basics.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Then we do the normal dog.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
As well, just so people can have a happy, healthy
household with the dog involved in that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I mean, Nola is not perfect and I do work
with her every day with practice and training and different
little techniques. And will we're going to go on and
do the trick course. Yes, but it's fascinating. And you
said this when we did the training, that we will
really notice stressed dogs when you go to the park
or when you go somewhere. It is so true. I
(07:22):
can now look at a dog and know, oh my gosh,
it's really not a happy dog. Even though it might
look like it's happy, it's really not showing signals that
like the big yawn, you know, the cowering, the freezing,
the freezing, licking the lips. Yeah, them sort of averting
the eyes, you know, all that sort of stuff that
I suppose it's common sense, but you need It's like kids,
you sometimes need to be told about Well, most people
(07:44):
have never heard of calming signals, and I had it no,
and ninety percent of people on our courses never have.
So if anyone's listening, they're like, what are calming signals?
It's a behavior that your dog does, or any dog does,
in order to calm itself down or calm the situation down.
And the good thing about that is us being aware
of that. Now we can actually throw calming signals back
to the dog to bring the dog out of stress.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Why do we want to bring a dog out of stress?
Because a stress dog can't problem solve, and a dog
that can't problem solve isn't going to be a good
therapy dog, and it's going to be a stress dog,
which creates anxieties in a dog, same as with people.
If we don't know how to calm ourselves down out
of a stressful situation, it just keeps escalating into a
situation that it's not a happy environment for everyone. And
(08:29):
the other thing to remember is a stress dog, a
dog that's so up in its own head, it can't learn.
What's really important is to bring the dog back out
of stress to then develop the dog's skills by teaching
it it's okay, I'm here, I'm going to look after
you work with me. You're going to get what you
love and I'm going to get what I love, and
we're going to be a good team. So that's where
calming signals in dog training are essential.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Well, it's funny because you had said to me my
bond with Lola would improve dramatically. I just didn't think
it could, and it absolutely has. She is just next
level loyal in the clinic. I now know when she's stress.
But the interesting thing I've noticed with her is when
we've got clients that are really stressed and she's quite
(09:12):
happy to sit on their lap, but it's her behaviors
when she hops off, it's like she's picked up their
stress and she does that big serotonin dump and shakes
it out, and then it's actually made me aware that, Okay,
I've had a big day here, it's been quite a
stressful day. I'm looking at Lola's signals, so I know
it's been stressful. If she's feeling that way how am
(09:34):
I feeling? And I know that sounds sort of a
bit strange, but I've actually been using her as a
gauge on myself and my emotions, and it's quite interesting.
When I see her really shattered, I know, I go
home and I'm shattered that night.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I think it's really important for people who are sitting
back thinking, gee, is this something i'd love to do.
I've got a dog that you know I'd love it.
You've got to realize that that's a lot of emotion
for a dog. So you also don't want to burn
your dog out. The school dogs and things that I
have around the place, or the clinic dogs they have
time out during the day. They have a crate in
their office. So if the situation becomes slightly stressful, or
(10:14):
the dog becomes overwhelmed, or if something's happening to the
degree that the handler can't actually concentrate on what the
dog's doing and everything's going bad, pop the dog in
the crate, pull the cover over it, and walk away.
The dog's safe, the dog's happy, it's content because they
should be great trade and then go deal with the situation.
And the other part is don't overload a dog. If
you have a big day or two big days of
(10:35):
really stress on the dog, the dog's not going to
end up wanting to go to work. So you've got
to be kind to the dog to give it time out.
A lot of people think, and I've had a few
skill principles, thinking that a therapy dog is like a pen.
You purchase it, you stick it in the office, and
anyone can come and pick up that pen, use it
and put it back on the desk. Totally incorrect. The
(10:55):
dog in a therapy situation is one dog, one handler,
and I'll only.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Certify people who live together.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
It is so essential that that owner and the dog
are on a working relationship where the trainer and handler
owner is aware of the dog's calming signals and can
understand their own dog. Because if you leave a dog
in a highly stressful situation where it's yawning, say if
you've got a child in the room and the child's
acting in appropriately to the dog, pulling its tail, poking
in the eye, whatever, and the dog's throwing new calming signals,
(11:23):
and you can't read those calming signals. And as the
pack leader and the handler look after your dog enough
to remove it from that situation, the next step could
be a bite, which no one wants. So that's why
it's not a pen. A dog, a therapy dog is
not a pen. It's a living, breathing creature with emotions,
with its own brain that still needs to be looked after.
They're an amazing tool in the therapy world.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
They really are.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
But it's not a tool that everyone can use.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And it's one of those things setting boundaries because everyone
thinks that, you know, you can when she's working, Yes,
you can go up and pat her or yeah, but
you can't. She's working, and she's working for me. Yes,
people are now coming in and asking for her, which
I find fascinating, and she will sit on their lap.
I put a little blanket down, and she really likes working.
(12:11):
I suppose dogs want to work done, Yes, they do.
They like pleasing you know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You gotta remember a dog is a pack animal, so
they want to please the pack hierarchy. And they love us,
you know, like I've got multiple dogs and they all
love me. And I've nearly said how many I've got.
I nearly let that slip. I've got multiple dogs, but
I'm the boss of the household. Like I've got entire males.
I've got entire females. Come the time when the females
come in heat, I've got two entire males. It's a
(12:35):
lot of responsibility, but as the pack leader, I'm actually
able to control the dogs under any situation. And that's
not cruelty. It's just because they know I'm boss. Therapy
dogs have to be taught to be calm. If you
don't reward calm behavior, you're going to get crazy behavior,
which would not work in your scenario. I've got another
tiny littlekerverdle that I had on a stand trained program
(12:57):
that I raised for two dentists, and she's in a
dentistry into Woomba and she's kicking goals like you wouldn't believe.
Does anyone like going to the dentists. I certainly don't,
especially for little children. And they're using her in their
clinic and kicking goals like because the kids, Yeah, it's
horrible going the dentists, but they love Lola because she's
got calm behavior, so she's not jumping on the kids,
(13:18):
she's not making the kids fearful. All she's there to
do is to bring them kids out of that heightened
state and bring them back down to a nice, even temperament.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
She does. And I don't think there's any other clinic
of what I do, like cosmetic dermatology, that has a
certified and trained dog in their clinic like Lola is.
We really are leaders, absolutely and really unique, and I
think there's a big space for I hope healthcare definitely.
I really hope that people listening to this think about
(13:47):
it and go forward, because if you go over in
America or Europe, dogs are everywhere, and they're so.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Big in every stressful environment. Dogs make such good therapy
anals because they absorb people's emotions, but that can also
be detriment to their own health. The vest that we've
got on, they're only on them when they're in a therapy,
and that's correct. Yes, they learn once this vest is
on them, they're working, so they learn to go to people.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
They learn they can't go to the toilet.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The same as when I was a police dog handler,
a harness to my police dog meant okay, we're going
to track this little jacket to these dogs mean okay,
I'm going to go and deal with people's emotions.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
And it really does make a difference. Yeah, she changes
when I put this on her and she's.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Calmness comes upon them and she's very happy, Like it's
like a little proud, she's really proud.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's the cutest thing ever.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And the thing is, not every dog is suitable to
be a therapy dog. Like dogs that go through my
stay and trained program are probably more likely too, because
I've been raising dogs since i've you know, was a
child myself, so I install the right behaviors. But a
lot of people don't know about these behaviors and training,
so they reward the wrong behaviors. And I know the
(14:55):
lady you're talking, Matt, and her dog wasn't brought up
with calm behaviors, but she's doing the best she can
to get her dog to the situation dog too. Yeah, yeah,
most dogs are, you know, it's that what goes into
them that's going to make the difference. Well, I didn't
think Lola was going to pass no, no, but she
was the worst in the class. You're very epimemorphic. So
for people who don't know what that means, that's putting
(15:18):
human traits on animals. So yeah, you know a little bit,
you know, who love you for that, But all that
does is confused as a dog. A dog doesn't have
human emotions. A dog doesn't have a digestive tract like humans.
A dog has dog emotions and digestive tracts of a
wild dog or the wild forebearers. And that's why we
(15:39):
need to treat them. Even though they're a very valuable
member of our family or our work at life, we
still must treat them like dogs because otherwise all we
do so we stress them, and we cause confusion in
their brains.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, well she does now know who Alpha is, and
she gets fed after us, and she lets me go
through the door first. So yeah, it was a little
bit of a funny situation. When I was doing the training,
Nick was doing some other things with the dogs, and
Matt was doing the training with me, and I could
feel myself getting really upset because Lola wouldn't look at Matt,
(16:11):
wouldn't look at me, wouldn't take food. She was hungry,
because we take the dogs hungry. She was being feral.
Every other dog saw Matt or Nick would just fall
over themselves to please them. Lola wasn't having a bar
of anybody. And Matt said to me, does she hate man?
And I went oh, yeah, she does.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You should probably stay tune. Matt's about six foot three
and he's a big man too, the big man with
a beer, and he's a big, dominant, very alpha. Yeah yeah,
and she was not bowing to him, and every other
dog couldn't please him fast enough.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
But Lola terrible. We were creating the dogs while we're
having break and we're having mourning tea, and I could
feel myself getting really upset, really upset, and I went
put her in the crate and my eyes were welling up,
and I was like, she's going to fail. She's the
worst dog. Here's like, you know your kids are failing
at school. It's so bad. Came out and Matt was
(17:04):
so lovely. He came up to me and he goes,
are you okay? And no word of a lie. I
burst into tears and I said, just give me a moment.
I had to walk away, and I walked out for it.
And Nick's got this beautiful property out at Samford, and
you know, I went still on a little ledge and
there's beautiful horses and trees in the battle like it's
really calming and beautiful and bless him. Matt came over
(17:27):
to speak with me and then I just did this,
Well maybe it was a serotonin dump. I just did
this complete dump of everything I'd recently been through, why
I've got Lola. And all I could say to him
was I've ruined my dog. And he was looking at me, going,
this woman's but enough. I went back, He's going, we'll
(17:49):
get her there. We will get her there. And you
know what, last run of the day we did the
two minutes out of side. He was determined to he
knew Lola could do it, and he was determined because
you were less stressed too. All I know is that
something shifted at that moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
One of the interesting things, and we hear it quite
a bit, is people say, at the end of the course,
I learned a lot about me, not just about the dog.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Oh. Absolutely, it's really interesting. I sometimes wonder if I
did it for me more than Lola, it would be honest.
And it really did work, and it's changed my outlook
on dog handling what Lola needs.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But you weren't aware of how in change she was
with your needs, So your anxiety was actually passing on
to your dog.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah. I had no idea. I thought she was helping me,
but I didn't realize that she was. I think you
explained it, but she was trying to be the alpha
in our relationship. She was taking on that stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
To change and she's not that sort of dog that
she can do that. Dogs that aren't alpha dogs can't
take on the alpha role because all it does is
makes them nervous, which is what she was coming through with. Yeah,
if anyone's got a puppy at home or thinking of
getting a puppy at home, vets and the vet industry
smash it into us. Dictate the dog out until they're
(19:03):
fully vaccinated after twelve weeks of age, usually thirteen fourteen
weeks of age. It is important, but it's just as
important to get environmental training into your dog.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
So do it safely.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
When I have my stay in trains, and what a
stay in train is, I take puppies from eight weeks
of age from breeders for people who have purchased their dogs,
and I spend four weeks twenty eight days raising that
puppy for them toilet training, create training. And the reason
for that is up to sixteen to twenty weeks of
age is a critical imprinting for dogs. So what environments
you don't get into a dog in that time can
(19:35):
actually develop into a fear for that dog going forward.
So all the dogs I have, we go to work sites,
we go to shopping centers, we go to parks. And
when I say that I have a hatchback car, I
put a crate in the back, put four or five
puppies in, and I'll go and sit outside of a
busy coffee shop. I'll have a coffee while the dogs
watch the world go round. You know it's good at
(19:55):
school time because the kids coming out on their bikes,
thess screaming, the yahooing. Work sites good because of the
jackhammers and the guns, that sort of thing. Another really
good life that I did was a car wash puppies
car wash. Audrey who's now about three. When I first
took her to a car wash, she was terrified of
the noises, like there's all people running, there's noises. So
(20:16):
I didn't hide from that, never hide from training issues.
The next time I went back, I took her hungry
and I fed her in that environment. So now she
loves that environment. So really really important to get as
many different sound sites and smells, people, animals, but safely
don't go to dog parks. Don't put them on the ground.
If you've got a small dog, carry them, leave them
in your car, take a mat. Yeah, you're raising puppies,
(20:38):
but you got to remember you're raising a dog. It's
not going to be a puppy all its life. It's
going to be a dog. So think where you want
that dog to go. So if you're a nurse, or
you're a psychologist or an occupational therapist and you want
that dog to work in that environment when it's two,
when it's four, you have to start that training immediately
because the sounds, the smells.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So do you think therapy dogs? I know there are
groups that do go into hospitals with therapy dogs. Do
you think it'll get to the stage where they're just
on the woods or look?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I'd like to think so. I think Australia are a
long way off. The big thing is that people who
have allergies or have nationalities with fears of dogs, and
because we're so multicultural, we've got to take that into
consideration for everyone, which is why when we were developing
the policy and procedures for working at the airport, they
were discussing walking around the airport with a dog and
(21:30):
I said, no, we need to be in a stationary position.
People can come and see us if they want to
see us, because it's not fair if we're going to
help some people's fears about flying with a dog, but
then we increase someone else's fear of dogs before they fly, Like,
that's not a fair situation. So BAC were amazing. They said, yeah,
great idea. So we have a stationary location. All those
(21:52):
things have to be taken into consideration.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
I hope it continues to grow, you know, like look
at the schools, yeah, particularly the private schools. They're smashing
it with the therapy yeah, and support dogs.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
They are unfortunately in Queensland Educational looking at pulling dogs
from state schools, which is ridiculous, makes no sense to me.
But I don't know the reason behind it or anything.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Like that, which is crazy because the amount of work
they do and how fantastic they are with helping the kids.
Kids will read to a dog where they won't read
to a human because there's no judgment. They're storybook dogs.
They're different.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I think what queens On Education is saying is none
of their employees can be the handler of the dog.
So I believe they're saying, if there's a third party
business that you can pay to bring in a dog,
then that's okay. But no employee of Queensland Health will
be taking a therapy dog to school, which you know, yeah,
(22:43):
I have therapy dogs, not for hire, but that's part
of my business too.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
We do corporate events and things like that.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But I'm not going to be on site for when
something traumatic's happened in a child's life and it turns
up at school and loses the plot. So having a
dog on site, you're able to deal with that situation
a lot quicker than calling me, getting me ready, getting
the dog ready. A lot of work goes into prepping
these dogs before they go to work, too, so it's
not as easy as I just grabbed the dog from
(23:09):
the backyard, throw it in the car and off we go.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Because you've trained dogs are already in state school system. Yeah, yeah, lots.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And tomorrow I'm actually going to reassess Burton Finley, who
are two dogs at the PA Hospital any Ward In particular,
I know one of the dogs works better for clients patients,
I should say, and then one dog works better for staff,
So I'll go in to terristic. Yeah, but once again
the owner handler is aware of the situation and Meghan
(23:36):
she handles it quite well. She knows what dog to
use in what situation.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So how exciting. And they've been received really well.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah they've been there for a few years now, Okay,
so yeah, Megan's worked for the hospital there for quite
some years and Burton Finley have been going, we'll hear
about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I mean, I think that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, I don't know, it is wonderful once you start researching,
and if you have a look overseas, they're everywhere. Overseas,
they're in physio departments for kids, like people have had
strokes or you know, spinal injuries. They use them everywhere.
They are such a force to be reckoned with and
they make such a difference. But I just don't think
Australia are there people in management could be scared of
(24:14):
the people who don't want it, and it's changed where overseas.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
You see them on.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Planes, you see them everywhere, and you see them at airports.
But then irresponsible handlers who raise dogs with issues are
also partly to blame for that because people go, look
at that dog. That's why dogs shouldn't be in a
coffee shop, or that's why that dog shouldn't be in
shopping centers. So I think that's really part of it
as well. And you're never going to make everyone happy.
(24:40):
I mean that's life, hey, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
So if you're giving a takeaway for any suggestion or
tips around training a dog, what would your number one
tip be for dog ownership?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Teach can't behaviors, treat a dog like a dog and anxiety. Yeah,
I know, but people don't. And I love my dogs
like you know me back. I love my dogs. My
dogs sleep on my bed. My dogs are allowed on
the lounge when I say they're allowed to. If I
say off, they've got to get off. But I love
my dogs. They are a huge part of my life.
But I treat my dogs like dogs still, because if
(25:12):
you don't treat a dog like a dog, you are
causing so much confusion in their brain. Because there's so
many dogs out there with separation anxiety and fears of
this and fears of that. Why do you think you
never see separation anxiety or other anxieties? And police dogs
in raft, dogs in army, dogs in prison, dogs in
muster dogs, any dogs that work on a farm. Why
(25:36):
do you know why because it treated like dogs. Because
they're treated like dogs, and that doesn't cause confusion in
a dog's brain. The dog knows what you want and
what to expect. Where if you're treating a dog like
a human, a dog doesn't understand that, like a dog
doesn't know that you're dressing it in clothes. Dog doesn't
need to wear clothes or really want to wear clothes.
(25:57):
I'm not making upsetting anyone out there, but it's not essential.
So a dog's primary thing is reproduction and food. That's
that's how basic dogs are. So if you over complicated
dog's brain.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
It's just going to confuse it.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And that's why with our training and all our people
have done, my course probably gone black and white because
that's what we say black and white. White is praise, love, food,
pats black is a correction. No, we are balanced trainers.
We aren't positive only trainers, because I think in my
world that causes confusion. But saying that there's very little
black and there's a lot a lot of white, there's
(26:32):
a lot of love in the dog's brain. If it's
chewing an electric cord, because that could kill us, kill
the dog burn the house down whatever no means, don't
do it. And as soon as the dog stops doing it,
I praise it.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
That's a girl, that's a fella.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So the dog lends Okay, I don't want to do that.
I want Mum to love me, so I do what
Mum wants me to do. If you adopted a child
from Africa who only spoke Swahili, who was fifteen and
only ever spokes Swahili in his life, would you continue
to speak English to him or would you find some
sort of a way to communicate on some sort of level.
You know, it's the same with dogs. They don't speak English,
they don't speak words. They don't understand that, you know,
(27:08):
Christmas Day they're going to get lots of presents. Yeah,
they don't understand that their birthday they're going to you know, man,
then every day is the same to a dog. It
appreciates love, It appreciates food, you know, appreciates boundaries, oh
one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And that's another thing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
People don't like putting boundaries on dogs because they think
that's cruel.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
To me.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
In my way of thinking, I think it's cruel if
you don't give dogs boundaries same as children.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
She's much happier since she's had boundaries put in place.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well, she's not confused back. She knows what's expected. And
you've got to think dogs are pack animals. They have
to know what the next person or next level are
want from them, and if they don't, that's when the
confusion starts in their brain. So going back, I would say,
can't behaviors and treat them like dogs. Love them, love
them all you want, but still be kind enough to
(27:57):
them to not confuse their brain. It's the same as
we can eat onions, and we can eat garlic, we
can eat chocolate because that's our thing. Wouldn't be feeding
those foods to a dog because it's toxic to them,
So we shouldn't be putting other human traits on them
as well, expecting that to make a happy, healthy dog,
because it doesn't. So yeah, love them, love them hard,
(28:17):
but also treat them like a dog, you know, and
you'll find a they love you more. And especially if
you start throwing calming signals back to a dog, it's
going to go holy dooly you you understand me, you're
communicating back to me? Ya, Lola loves that. Yeah, when
I throw on a yawn, Yeah, I feel like an idiot. Everybody,
don't start sniffing the ground back. People start eking you're weird,
(28:38):
but yeah, but do it. Because the dog gets so
much appreciation of the fact that it's understands what you want.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
We might wrap it up there. It's therapy and support
Animals Australia. Yep Nick is based here in Brisbane. Do
you mind if I talk about how much it cost?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So it was fourteen hundred sixteen eighty for the four
day course, sixteen eighty for the four day course and
five point fifty for the certificates.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Best money I have spent.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And there's always been a long long time.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Lots of follow up too.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Like I always say to people after courses, if you're
having trouble with something, video it and send it to me.
For the reason being that people are going to look
at what the dog's doing and they're not going to
see what I'm doing, or it's probably something the handler's
doing that they're not aware of. So people can video
it send it to me. I can make an informed
decision and go try ABC and D and normally it's
pretty simple. I don't believe in training online because I
(29:32):
think it's timing with dog training is so important.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I'll put up nixed details if you are at all
interested in developing a therapy dog. I can't rate it
high enough. It has been life changing, just doing the
course work and then going on and doing the therapy dog training,
and just going out for the first day with Lola
to qut and just watching her work through her little
(29:55):
bits of anxiety but she did it. And beautiful people
that are doing the therapy dog.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But it also makes you feel good giving back to
people like strangers. Absolutely, He's got one last story. I
got invited to breast screen with the thropy dogs. I
went down with Audrey, who's my three year old labrydoodle.
She's not huge on men off lead on lead, she
knows she's working.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
She's fine.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The waiting room was full of people, unfortunately who women
were coming and going constantly during the day having different scans.
One man there was highly stressed. Audrey went and sat
on his feet the whole time, you know what I mean,
And he's just like patting and going. This is what
I needed because it was a very very bad situation
for him and his wife and made the world a
difference you give back, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Absolutely, Thanks Nick, and yeah we'll put all the details
up in the show notes. And also just little heads up,
you get to cut off puppies at the train. Okay,
it's so much fun. Thanks harm I really appreciate your pleasure.
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