December 7, 2025 • 30 mins
TRIGGER WARNING: The following Podcast discusses Addiction and death by suicide. Please be aware that some topics may be triggering.
This 2 part discussion covers a broad range of information around depression, addiction and suicide, as can only be seen and felt by the partner of person struggling with addiction.
Jane’s open and honest approach around the death of her husband by suicide and his battle with alcohol has taken nearly 2 years to occur.
Through openly talking about what has happened to her and her daughters after her husband’s death, she hopes to start shifting the stigma around suicide and the huge number of male deaths by suicide yearly.
It is her hope that by sharing her story, it may help someone who is struggling and listening to this podcast.
If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction,
Please reach out to the following:
If you are in a Life threatening situation
Call: 000
Lifeline: 13 11 14
https://www.lifeline.org.au/about/contact-us
Beyond Blue: 1300 224 636
Urgent Help - Beyond Blue - Beyond Blue
Black Dog Institute
Contact Us - Black Dog Institute | Better Mental Health
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Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/tendernessnurses
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche Production. Hi everyone, it's Beck here from Tenderness for Nurses.
This next two episodes are going to be Part A
and Part B. Part A is going to be around
addiction and alcohol misuse disorder. There are going to be
some hard subjects that we are talking about, including death
(00:29):
by suicide. So if you find these subjects triggering, please
beware of the content that is going to follow. Part A.
We're talking about addiction and Part B is definitely more
focus on death by suicide. So we felt that these
episodes needed to be shared and these topics need to
(00:52):
be discussed. So I want to say enjoy, but I
hope this gives you some idea as to what people
and families go through. Hi guys, it's Beck Woodbine here
from Tenderness for Nurses. I just want to let you
all know that this episode has been supported by CMR.
So from nurses to doctors to allied health professionals, CMR
(01:13):
is here to connect you with opportunities that support the
work you love and the life you want to lead.
So together we're building a happier healthcare community. Want to
learn more, then I will add the link down the bottom,
which is CMR dot com dot U, but Cornerstone Medical
Recruitment just look at healthcare differently and how they support
(01:33):
the healthcare teams that they provide employment for. So definitely
check them out, have a chat with them and see
if there's something they can do for you. Hi. My
name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm
grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nellie
four years. We always have free will, we always get
to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Hi. Everyone, thanks for tuning back into Tenderness for Nurses.
Today is going to be a bit of a tough podcast.
So I'm just going to let you know we are
going to be talking about death by suicide and we
are going to be talking about addictions. I have my
beautiful sister in law, Jane here with me, who has
(02:23):
lived through a loved one having an addiction to alcohol
and then sadly he passed by suicide at the beginning
of last year. And Jane is passionate about not sweeping
it under the carpet, and as tough as this conversation
is going to be for her, it's going to be
(02:46):
a really great podcast for you guys to listen to,
to share, and to promote that there's a lot of
people out there, myself included, that have had issues with
addiction and that it's not the big nasty thing that
everyone thinks it is. However, people need support and management
around handling it, and families definitely need support. So welcome, Jane.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I know this isn't going to be the easiest conversation
to have, but let's start with your management of Sean's
addiction and how do you think it started?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Sean? I think, like most drinkers, it was something that
was his culture. He's a tradesman, has always been in construction,
and it was Friday afternoon drinks at Knockoff in the
smokeo room. It was bringing home a carden on a
(03:50):
Friday night with his pay. You know, he'd get his
pay packet and he'd buy a carton and he'd come
home and he would work around the house all weekend.
He was always sort of building or tinkering or gardening
or yard maintenance, and he'd have a COLDI just became
the culture. It became the culture. It's the language within
(04:12):
his industry and its currency.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Was there a turning point where his alcohol consumption became
problematic or was it a slow build? Like for me,
I know, I was fine, had gastric bypass surgery. Everything
went to shit for him. Was it a slow burn?
Did he try and hide it? Let's face, we all
try and hide it. It was owning a business, the
(04:35):
stress of running a business.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, definitely owning the company. I think he didn't have
a lot of support. He was really self made in
his success, and with that come a lot of stress
that he shouldered alone, you know, and he started working
longer hours and then he would stay back to do
(04:57):
the books at night, and he would have a couple
of drinks. And then that just snowballed because then he
was drinking alone and with Sean. All his drinking was
done while he was social. He didn't go to the
pub or you know, he come home. He still, you know,
managed a business and a family and everything that goes
(05:19):
with that. But when he was on his own, he
was leaning into his alcohol as a coping mechanism. He
was stressed, he was tired, and then it become do
you know what that's I think the big mysteries was
there that one point. No, it was always there in
(05:41):
the background, ununtil it's a problem, and by then it
become a secret. So he got unwell and he ended
up with cirrhosis of the liver, and he was in
complete denial because he was denying how many drinks he
was actually having sitting there at work until midnight doing
(06:04):
the book. And the falling for Shan was he got
surraceless to the liver and then his options where he
had stopped drinking to.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Get to that point. That's a lot of alcohol consumption.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Can be or it can't, you know, like the surgeon
said to me, Absolutely, it's to do with you know,
drinking excessively, but it can also be the same as smoking,
where you can die of lung cancer and not be
a pack of the day smoker.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, so if.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You've got the disposition for it, it can just happen.
So you know, he certainly had friends around him that
were drinking every day and they will live to a
ripe old age. It's just he was just unlucky.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Did that give him, I suppose impetus to them stop
drinking or he then found that really hard once he
was diagnosed with cerises of the liver. Yeah, was he
able to stop or it just then escalated.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Because by then he was he was addicted, you know,
and he went to hospital and you just get it,
you know, you sign out papers, all right, never drink
again and you'll live or and that was just it.
There was no management, There was no you know, in hindsight,
maybe he should have immediately been put into rehabilitation after it,
(07:20):
but it was more sort of like recovery from the
surgery and then just get on with it. And that's
just not how it worked. Oh did he have to
have surgery when he went in to hospital, they had surgery. No,
they have to drain them. Oh, as your liver stops working. Yeah,
and he got so sick that he ended up in
(07:41):
hospital all swollen arm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because his liver
wasn't functioning. So then that's a very painful ordeal for
him and anyone else and they just have to stay
there and basically be drained.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And how long was he in hospital then? Probably two weeks,
So that's a double whammy. So it's not just you're
in pain, you've also stopped for two weeks. Yeah, did
you know his drinking by that stage was a problem No,
definitely not. When did you realize it was a problem.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh boy, that's a really big question, because we stop
talking about Shawnee's addiction, and we then start talking about
the coping mechanisms that the family and loved ones put
in place, and the things that we choose to see
(08:36):
and not see for the sake of the family and
the sake of an argument, and you just sort of
think you wish them well the whole time, and you
start falling into this chain of events where it's you know,
they'll come home and you'll think they've had a drink,
and you'll ask them and then they'll deny it, and
(08:56):
then the smoke screens start, you know, and then you
start thinking, am I going crazy here? Or are you drinking?
And that's where it starts, because you start making up
excuses for your loved one that's got an addiction problem,
and you go into protection mode. I went into protection
(09:19):
mode for everyone, for my family.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And were the girls aware Jane's got three daughters, beautiful girls.
Were they aware?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Or it's just he and I really don't like to
use the word functioning, because you aren't functioning when you're drinking.
But he was still ticking all the boxes. So he
was coming home. He was running excess sex for business.
He was well liked, he was very well respected in
the industry, very smart at what he did. So what
(09:53):
happens is a little bit of gas lighting to the
partners with in addiction, because I would question it, and
then I would be presented with but look, I'm still
doing this, and I'm still doing that, and I'm just tired,
and I've had a big day at work and you
are blowing up, and you know, I wasn't blowing up
(10:16):
because I'm just not that sort of person. We had
a healthy relationship. I actually worked with him as well,
so I was in the office all day and we
were good mates. So we weren't. It wasn't that our
relationship went sour. I think if I look back at
it now, what I realize is that there was three
people in our relationship. There was myself, Sean and alcohol,
(10:40):
and slowly the midstressed alcohol become more important than me.
More protected was the alcohol.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Love.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
No, he hated it. He hated the powered hat over it.
Yeah by that stage, but he loved me, but he
protected his addiction.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah at all costs. Yeah, when did he get to
the stage where he chose alcohol over his family.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I think he'd just created a whole system of pressure.
By this stage, he was unwell because he really didn't
recover from his diagnosis with serrasis, and he continued to drink,
and then he would start a cycle where he didn't sleep,
so he ended up with really severe sleep abnear so
(11:32):
then he just started medicating. So he ended up with
a codeine addiction because he was working seven days a
week at really high pressure, and then he was drinking,
and then he'd come home, he couldn't sleep, he'd get up,
he'd feel terrible, so he would shove down half a
packet of europin at the time, europhin plus, and then
(11:57):
he would start the day because he had to be
back at work, and then he would feel sick because
the neurophin plus on his liver didn't work, So then
he would have a drink and then it repeats, day
after day after day.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
When did you know that he had an issue with
codeine when he went into rehab and that was the
first time he went into rehab. Was it because of
the coding or was it because of the alcohol?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He had to admit it. Everything that he was shaking.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So he was writing scripts to the family and he
was just going to the chemists everywhere, just getting one
for me and one for the girls, one for him,
just chemists shopping.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
See that's a little while ago because coding hasn't been
available for a while.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, that was sort of at the neuripan behind the
counter and had a label on it.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Stage. I have to say, I know people get upset
that it's not available, but I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
How did he go going into rehab? How long was
he in there for? Initially?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I think when he first went into rehab he was
still in deny, so he knew he had to go
and do something about it. But I think he just
thought he could clean it away. He's a professional, he
was super smart. He outsmarted himself. Basically, he would go
he would be the star student for a month, two months,
(13:23):
or whatever it was. Everyone loved him, adored him. He
would participate in all of the group and do everything
right except for take ownership of his own problem. He
went there and would fix everybody else, and that's how
he thought he was getting better, But he never really
fixed himself.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Do you think he wanted to.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, I know he wanted to.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Why do you think he couldn't? Was it just that
had such power over him?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah? Alcoholism is just a monster. And I think everybody
has a drink and thinks that it's not going to
happen to them until it does, Until it's the monster.
You wake up one day and you realize that you
cannot fix it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
It's one of those things that I have definitely pondered
and thought about. Was how is it that I saw
my psychiatrist he put me on a medication camperal, But
literally from that day on, I've never touched the drop
of alcohol nor wanted to. Yeah, why was I able
(14:30):
to do that? And then, for example, Sean could stop
for periods of time, but then would always go back
and drink. And this happens with other people, And yet
I don't understand why for me I could.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Just culture stop culture.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You think so? Yeah? So where he was working in
the whole industry he was in definitely, Yeah, he lost
his identity.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
He had spent his whole life working and he got
to fifty and he had no hobbies. He was stuck
in a grind where I think he was a Western
suburb Sydney boy on his own from fifteen, and his
(15:16):
entire life was about making money. So when I make money,
I'm going to hit Nirvana as aye the goalpost change
it does. Yeah, So he just didn't have any coping
mechanisms on how to get off that grind. And then
with that come the culture of drinking, and he just
(15:40):
felt like he was nobody if he didn't have a
drink in his hand. He just didn't know how to
socialize without drinking.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Do you think he had social anxiety?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, absolutely he did.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And what about depression, yes, So when you add those
two together, I know from my own experience after I
stopped drinking that I found socialized exceptionally hard, unbelievably hard.
And in fact, I've spoken about this before. You know,
I stopped socializing and just was surrounding myself with very
(16:17):
particular people because I just couldn't couldn't do it, and
I couldn't handle the narki comments and people offering me drinks.
It was too much. So I just stopped. Now it
doesn't worry me. But also I'm around people now that
understand and don't do that sort of thing. You know,
(16:38):
if someone now, yeah, I just get really shitty with
them and just honestly, I just go and see you later.
If someone doesn't understand my boundaries around alcohol. Jason doesn't
drink much, so for that, I'm grateful and lucky. Neither
do my kids, so I've been lucky in that. But
(16:58):
to work in construction, everyone drinks on a Friday afternoon,
you have social anxiety.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You don't show vulnerability, so they don't reach out for help.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
So how many industries does that happen in? Especially for men?
It happens at nursing.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I think we're making headways with it, but we've got
a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Through all of this. What was the impact on you?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
There was a lot of frustration for us because the
family of an addict doesn't really have a voice, so
when Sean was in getting treatment, they can only go
on what narrative Sean would give, and I just sometimes
(17:51):
I would be so frustrated because I'd think, you know,
I loved him and I was all there to support him.
But if they really wanted an honest account of where
Sean was.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Really at, asked you.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
They should have asked the family, and they don't because
the laws with privacy and so forth. But yeah, I
just I just think we were there to support him.
We hadn't walked away it just if I hadn't had
a voice, it would have been did Jean push you away? No, No,
definitely not, but he always sort of had a handle
(18:22):
on it to the big old world.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Did you share it with other people? Like, yes, you
were always quite open with Jason, with us and that
sort of thing. How did other people respond when you
told them?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
They were really positive? Like I didn't lose any friends.
I think alcoholism in Australia it's huge. And if anything,
I had people approach me, you know, they'd call or
text or whatever and say, oh, look you know my
(18:58):
husband he's doing the same thing, or you know my
sister or brother or my child. Yeah, if anything, I
got like it's almost a relief when somebody is brave
enough to stand there and say, hey, this is happening
to me. I am blown away by how many people
then are brave enough to go or actually, yeah, it's
(19:19):
happening in our house too.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
The number of clients that asked me how I stopped
drinking and what I did and how I did it
and is phenomenal and is definitely a problem in women,
middle aged female. I think it's a huge issue in
this country. Yes, I believe it's certainly an issue with men.
But once a week at least at least a client
(19:45):
would ask me how I managed, or they've got a
loved one that they're worried, like you said, loved one
they're worried about, or they're worried about themselves. Yeah, and
I think, what courage that. Well, as you've taken the
first step.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, that's right. And we were alcohol free at home.
I don't drink. I've never really been a drinker at all.
I think from very early on in our marriage, I
just well, it doesn't bother me either way. I've never
been sort of like, oh I really want to drink,
or I'm quite happy not to drink. So then we
(20:17):
fell into the habit of what I would drive and
he would drink because he wasn't not going to drink.
So it was either we both drink or just he drinks.
So it was never ever an option that I would
drink and he wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
When did it reach a tipping point for you guys?
Or do you just didn't know the things? So he left,
He left yes, he come home one night and said,
I can't do it. But he was spiraling out of
control and he didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
He ran. He ran, and he ran because we were
the only ones that knew. So when he ran, he
surrounded himself with people that they were just vultures and
they were quite happy to party and drink, and you know,
birds of a feather flocked together, and that's where he went.
(21:12):
But you know, I just I was always firm in
my conversation with him, where I said, you know, the
door was always open when you're ready to stop running,
where he had to support you. I think my saving
grace with our relationship was I never took it personally.
Sean's addiction wasn't his reflection of his love for me.
(21:35):
He loved his family and he still did everything for
us because he loved us and I.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Even after he'd left.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Absolutely, he just ran. Nothing changed. He just ran. And
you know when he went into rehab. I've had so
many people, the doctors or owners of private health rehabs
that he'd gone into, have contacted me since he's passed
away to say what an incredible person, And they all
say he just spoke of how much he loved his
family the whole time. So it's hard, but I think
(22:10):
we need to understand that alcohol doesn't always stem from
unhappy marriages or unhappy families, or finances or lack of
a job or lack of a roof over your head.
Because he had all of that and he loved that.
He just didn't love himself.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, and he never addressed it.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
He didn't think he was worthy. And yeah, so that's
a really hard thing because I couldn't love him out
of it. He could only do it himself. So then
he would go and get the help, and then he
would spiral back into the depression and anxiety sleep deprivation cycle.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, and he was never able to manage that through
counseling or through meditation, or it was just something he
couldn't get a grip on.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
He would do it, he'd be fine for a while,
and then I don't know, I'll never know. I'll never
know what triggered him.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So when you talk about Sean being triggered, are you
talking about him being triggered to drinkah? And would he
try and hide it at first?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
He always hit it, always, always, Yeah, it was done
in secret.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
But then that's addiction, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, And it wasn't. Sort of like he was staggering
out of a part and it was all very apparent.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
He wasn't.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
He was going to work and he was doing twenty
hour days. But once everyone else had knocked off, he
would he would sit at his desk working and did
it after good.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Good male friends or the people. He could talk to
you about this, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
But he's no, he didn't talk to anyone about it,
so that must.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Be pretty lonely. Yeah, and he wouldn't talk about it
with you.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I have since been shown the power of shame and
how you can have guild and you can have shame,
and people think they're the same thing, and they're not.
They're two very very different scenarios. And you know, when
the padre came to visit myself and my daughters, he
(24:39):
was asking my daughter, you know, tell me about Dad,
and she said, you know, he was just my world.
But Dad just couldn't get over his shame. Even though
we said, Dad, you know we love you and we
are here to support you and you know, to paint
the picture. We weren't sitting at home ever in a negative.
It was always hope and growth and that kind of language,
(25:04):
and he just carried this shame of when the addiction
did take over and then he did run, and then
you know, he we welcomed him back in and he
got the help and things like that. Then he just
couldn't get past.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
It was more.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
He struggled with shame than addiction towards the end. And
you know, and the Padre explained to me that, you know,
guilt and shame are two very different things, and ones
like a box with three sides, And that's guilt because
you can sit in that open box and you can think, Okay,
I feel guilty and pretty lousy about what I've just done,
(25:39):
but there's pathways and I can get out of the
box that I'm in. But when you feel shame, you're
trapped inside of a box with no lid and silence.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Shame grows in silence, yes, and people with addictions are
really good at being silent.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yes, But it wasn't because he was unhappy. And I think,
you know this is we're all starting to learn this
now that we are talking about alcoholic dips and death
by suicide, particularly that it's not happening to our down
and outs. It's not happening to our I mean broadly speaking,
(26:16):
it's happening to every walk of life. But it's not
just people that have had something awful. And I know
from my own experience that people after Sean passed away,
we're digging into our family to find a reason, you
know that, oh, they must have gone broke, or their
(26:39):
marriage must be unhappy, or something's happened because we don't
we're not there yet when it comes to talking about
suicide and mental health, and particularly male mental health, and
we just don't want to think that it could just
happen to anyone. There doesn't have to be a reason
(26:59):
for it.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Something like ninety five percent of death by suicide, you know,
someone who decides to jump off a bridge or just
something under the influence of alcohol and drugs. It is huge. Now,
what have they made that decision? If they were sober
or hadn't completely, they would make a different decision. And
(27:24):
that might mean, like you said, doesn't mean necessarily they've
got an addiction issue or any but under that influence
of those substances, yeah, a temporary situation, they've made a
really patent decision. And my daughter Chloe did a big
research subject in Public Health on death by suicide with
(27:49):
men in mining camps for fifo. You know, and we
never hear about it, But one male a week dies
by suicide, one male a week in those camps or
goes home and can't cope and then takes his own life,
one a week, and you never hear about it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for using the language that's by
suicide too. I think it's definitely more relevant. You know,
we've shifted away from saying committed suicide because it's sounding
like a crime, and it's not a crime. It was
a cry for help.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Oh it's you know. I mean back in the day,
I mean, you weren't apparently meant to go to heaven,
or you weren't allowed to get your insurance, or there
were so many other factors around dying by suicide. And
thankfully a lot of that dialogue is changing. I know
(28:49):
from my own experience, having had depression and anxiety that
I mean, I would never have done anything, but there
are moments where I know I can remember thinking to myself,
this is.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Too hard, Yeah feel consuming.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
You know, it's too hard. And imagine if I had
had that thought and were still drinking the decision I
could have made from that, and I suppose that then
leads us into I suppose Part B of this conversation
(29:28):
that concludes Part A of this tough conversation. Next week
we'll continue right from where we left for Part B.
Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you
by CMR. We're proud to support nurses, doctors and allied
health professionals across all of Australia because when you feel supported,
(29:50):
whole communities thrive together. We're building happier healthcare and if
you want to learn more, check them out at CMR
dot com dot Au. And I just want to say,
these guys really care about their medical staff and get
in great jobs and employment for them, so definitely check
them out. I've been blown away by what they offer
(30:12):
and how they look after their teams. So if they're
worth checking out as a nurse in particular, but as
a healthcare worker, check them out at CMR dot com
dot Au
Appoche Production. Hi everyone, it's Beck here from Tenderness for Nurses.
This next two episodes are going to be Part A
and Part B. Part A is going to be around
addiction and alcohol misuse disorder. There are going to be
some hard subjects that we are talking about, including death
(00:29):
by suicide. So if you find these subjects triggering, please
beware of the content that is going to follow. Part A.
We're talking about addiction and Part B is definitely more
focus on death by suicide. So we felt that these
episodes needed to be shared and these topics need to
(00:52):
be discussed. So I want to say enjoy, but I
hope this gives you some idea as to what people
and families go through. Hi guys, it's Beck Woodbine here
from Tenderness for Nurses. I just want to let you
all know that this episode has been supported by CMR.
So from nurses to doctors to allied health professionals, CMR
(01:13):
is here to connect you with opportunities that support the
work you love and the life you want to lead.
So together we're building a happier healthcare community. Want to
learn more, then I will add the link down the bottom,
which is CMR dot com dot U, but Cornerstone Medical
Recruitment just look at healthcare differently and how they support
(01:33):
the healthcare teams that they provide employment for. So definitely
check them out, have a chat with them and see
if there's something they can do for you. Hi. My
name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm
grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nellie
four years. We always have free will, we always get
to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Hi. Everyone, thanks for tuning back into Tenderness for Nurses.
Today is going to be a bit of a tough podcast.
So I'm just going to let you know we are
going to be talking about death by suicide and we
are going to be talking about addictions. I have my
beautiful sister in law, Jane here with me, who has
(02:23):
lived through a loved one having an addiction to alcohol
and then sadly he passed by suicide at the beginning
of last year. And Jane is passionate about not sweeping
it under the carpet, and as tough as this conversation
is going to be for her, it's going to be
(02:46):
a really great podcast for you guys to listen to,
to share, and to promote that there's a lot of
people out there, myself included, that have had issues with
addiction and that it's not the big nasty thing that
everyone thinks it is. However, people need support and management
around handling it, and families definitely need support. So welcome, Jane.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I know this isn't going to be the easiest conversation
to have, but let's start with your management of Sean's
addiction and how do you think it started?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Sean? I think, like most drinkers, it was something that
was his culture. He's a tradesman, has always been in construction,
and it was Friday afternoon drinks at Knockoff in the
smokeo room. It was bringing home a carden on a
(03:50):
Friday night with his pay. You know, he'd get his
pay packet and he'd buy a carton and he'd come
home and he would work around the house all weekend.
He was always sort of building or tinkering or gardening
or yard maintenance, and he'd have a COLDI just became
the culture. It became the culture. It's the language within
(04:12):
his industry and its currency.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Was there a turning point where his alcohol consumption became
problematic or was it a slow build? Like for me,
I know, I was fine, had gastric bypass surgery. Everything
went to shit for him. Was it a slow burn?
Did he try and hide it? Let's face, we all
try and hide it. It was owning a business, the
(04:35):
stress of running a business.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, definitely owning the company. I think he didn't have
a lot of support. He was really self made in
his success, and with that come a lot of stress
that he shouldered alone, you know, and he started working
longer hours and then he would stay back to do
(04:57):
the books at night, and he would have a couple
of drinks. And then that just snowballed because then he
was drinking alone and with Sean. All his drinking was
done while he was social. He didn't go to the
pub or you know, he come home. He still, you know,
managed a business and a family and everything that goes
(05:19):
with that. But when he was on his own, he
was leaning into his alcohol as a coping mechanism. He
was stressed, he was tired, and then it become do
you know what that's I think the big mysteries was
there that one point. No, it was always there in
(05:41):
the background, ununtil it's a problem, and by then it
become a secret. So he got unwell and he ended
up with cirrhosis of the liver, and he was in
complete denial because he was denying how many drinks he
was actually having sitting there at work until midnight doing
(06:04):
the book. And the falling for Shan was he got
surraceless to the liver and then his options where he
had stopped drinking to.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Get to that point. That's a lot of alcohol consumption.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Can be or it can't, you know, like the surgeon
said to me, Absolutely, it's to do with you know,
drinking excessively, but it can also be the same as smoking,
where you can die of lung cancer and not be
a pack of the day smoker.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, so if.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You've got the disposition for it, it can just happen.
So you know, he certainly had friends around him that
were drinking every day and they will live to a
ripe old age. It's just he was just unlucky.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Did that give him, I suppose impetus to them stop
drinking or he then found that really hard once he
was diagnosed with cerises of the liver. Yeah, was he
able to stop or it just then escalated.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Because by then he was he was addicted, you know,
and he went to hospital and you just get it,
you know, you sign out papers, all right, never drink
again and you'll live or and that was just it.
There was no management, There was no you know, in hindsight,
maybe he should have immediately been put into rehabilitation after it,
(07:20):
but it was more sort of like recovery from the
surgery and then just get on with it. And that's
just not how it worked. Oh did he have to
have surgery when he went in to hospital, they had surgery. No,
they have to drain them. Oh, as your liver stops working. Yeah,
and he got so sick that he ended up in
(07:41):
hospital all swollen arm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because his liver
wasn't functioning. So then that's a very painful ordeal for
him and anyone else and they just have to stay
there and basically be drained.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And how long was he in hospital then? Probably two weeks,
So that's a double whammy. So it's not just you're
in pain, you've also stopped for two weeks. Yeah, did
you know his drinking by that stage was a problem No,
definitely not. When did you realize it was a problem.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh boy, that's a really big question, because we stop
talking about Shawnee's addiction, and we then start talking about
the coping mechanisms that the family and loved ones put
in place, and the things that we choose to see
(08:36):
and not see for the sake of the family and
the sake of an argument, and you just sort of
think you wish them well the whole time, and you
start falling into this chain of events where it's you know,
they'll come home and you'll think they've had a drink,
and you'll ask them and then they'll deny it, and
(08:56):
then the smoke screens start, you know, and then you
start thinking, am I going crazy here? Or are you drinking?
And that's where it starts, because you start making up
excuses for your loved one that's got an addiction problem,
and you go into protection mode. I went into protection
(09:19):
mode for everyone, for my family.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And were the girls aware Jane's got three daughters, beautiful girls.
Were they aware?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Or it's just he and I really don't like to
use the word functioning, because you aren't functioning when you're drinking.
But he was still ticking all the boxes. So he
was coming home. He was running excess sex for business.
He was well liked, he was very well respected in
the industry, very smart at what he did. So what
(09:53):
happens is a little bit of gas lighting to the
partners with in addiction, because I would question it, and
then I would be presented with but look, I'm still
doing this, and I'm still doing that, and I'm just tired,
and I've had a big day at work and you
are blowing up, and you know, I wasn't blowing up
(10:16):
because I'm just not that sort of person. We had
a healthy relationship. I actually worked with him as well,
so I was in the office all day and we
were good mates. So we weren't. It wasn't that our
relationship went sour. I think if I look back at
it now, what I realize is that there was three
people in our relationship. There was myself, Sean and alcohol,
(10:40):
and slowly the midstressed alcohol become more important than me.
More protected was the alcohol.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Love.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
No, he hated it. He hated the powered hat over it.
Yeah by that stage, but he loved me, but he
protected his addiction.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah at all costs. Yeah, when did he get to
the stage where he chose alcohol over his family.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I think he'd just created a whole system of pressure.
By this stage, he was unwell because he really didn't
recover from his diagnosis with serrasis, and he continued to drink,
and then he would start a cycle where he didn't sleep,
so he ended up with really severe sleep abnear so
(11:32):
then he just started medicating. So he ended up with
a codeine addiction because he was working seven days a
week at really high pressure, and then he was drinking,
and then he'd come home, he couldn't sleep, he'd get up,
he'd feel terrible, so he would shove down half a
packet of europin at the time, europhin plus, and then
(11:57):
he would start the day because he had to be
back at work, and then he would feel sick because
the neurophin plus on his liver didn't work, So then
he would have a drink and then it repeats, day
after day after day.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
When did you know that he had an issue with
codeine when he went into rehab and that was the
first time he went into rehab. Was it because of
the coding or was it because of the alcohol?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He had to admit it. Everything that he was shaking.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So he was writing scripts to the family and he
was just going to the chemists everywhere, just getting one
for me and one for the girls, one for him,
just chemists shopping.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
See that's a little while ago because coding hasn't been
available for a while.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, that was sort of at the neuripan behind the
counter and had a label on it.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Stage. I have to say, I know people get upset
that it's not available, but I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
How did he go going into rehab? How long was
he in there for? Initially?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I think when he first went into rehab he was
still in deny, so he knew he had to go
and do something about it. But I think he just
thought he could clean it away. He's a professional, he
was super smart. He outsmarted himself. Basically, he would go
he would be the star student for a month, two months,
(13:23):
or whatever it was. Everyone loved him, adored him. He
would participate in all of the group and do everything
right except for take ownership of his own problem. He
went there and would fix everybody else, and that's how
he thought he was getting better, But he never really
fixed himself.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Do you think he wanted to.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, I know he wanted to.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Why do you think he couldn't? Was it just that
had such power over him?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah? Alcoholism is just a monster. And I think everybody
has a drink and thinks that it's not going to
happen to them until it does, Until it's the monster.
You wake up one day and you realize that you
cannot fix it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
It's one of those things that I have definitely pondered
and thought about. Was how is it that I saw
my psychiatrist he put me on a medication camperal, But
literally from that day on, I've never touched the drop
of alcohol nor wanted to. Yeah, why was I able
(14:30):
to do that? And then, for example, Sean could stop
for periods of time, but then would always go back
and drink. And this happens with other people, And yet
I don't understand why for me I could.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Just culture stop culture.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You think so? Yeah? So where he was working in
the whole industry he was in definitely, Yeah, he lost
his identity.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
He had spent his whole life working and he got
to fifty and he had no hobbies. He was stuck
in a grind where I think he was a Western
suburb Sydney boy on his own from fifteen, and his
(15:16):
entire life was about making money. So when I make money,
I'm going to hit Nirvana as aye the goalpost change
it does. Yeah, So he just didn't have any coping
mechanisms on how to get off that grind. And then
with that come the culture of drinking, and he just
(15:40):
felt like he was nobody if he didn't have a
drink in his hand. He just didn't know how to
socialize without drinking.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Do you think he had social anxiety?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, absolutely he did.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And what about depression, yes, So when you add those
two together, I know from my own experience after I
stopped drinking that I found socialized exceptionally hard, unbelievably hard.
And in fact, I've spoken about this before. You know,
I stopped socializing and just was surrounding myself with very
(16:17):
particular people because I just couldn't couldn't do it, and
I couldn't handle the narki comments and people offering me drinks.
It was too much. So I just stopped. Now it
doesn't worry me. But also I'm around people now that
understand and don't do that sort of thing. You know,
(16:38):
if someone now, yeah, I just get really shitty with
them and just honestly, I just go and see you later.
If someone doesn't understand my boundaries around alcohol. Jason doesn't
drink much, so for that, I'm grateful and lucky. Neither
do my kids, so I've been lucky in that. But
(16:58):
to work in construction, everyone drinks on a Friday afternoon,
you have social anxiety.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You don't show vulnerability, so they don't reach out for help.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
So how many industries does that happen in? Especially for men?
It happens at nursing.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I think we're making headways with it, but we've got
a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Through all of this. What was the impact on you?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
There was a lot of frustration for us because the
family of an addict doesn't really have a voice, so
when Sean was in getting treatment, they can only go
on what narrative Sean would give, and I just sometimes
(17:51):
I would be so frustrated because I'd think, you know,
I loved him and I was all there to support him.
But if they really wanted an honest account of where
Sean was.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Really at, asked you.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
They should have asked the family, and they don't because
the laws with privacy and so forth. But yeah, I
just I just think we were there to support him.
We hadn't walked away it just if I hadn't had
a voice, it would have been did Jean push you away? No, No,
definitely not, but he always sort of had a handle
(18:22):
on it to the big old world.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Did you share it with other people? Like, yes, you
were always quite open with Jason, with us and that
sort of thing. How did other people respond when you
told them?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
They were really positive? Like I didn't lose any friends.
I think alcoholism in Australia it's huge. And if anything,
I had people approach me, you know, they'd call or
text or whatever and say, oh, look you know my
(18:58):
husband he's doing the same thing, or you know my
sister or brother or my child. Yeah, if anything, I
got like it's almost a relief when somebody is brave
enough to stand there and say, hey, this is happening
to me. I am blown away by how many people
then are brave enough to go or actually, yeah, it's
(19:19):
happening in our house too.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
The number of clients that asked me how I stopped
drinking and what I did and how I did it
and is phenomenal and is definitely a problem in women,
middle aged female. I think it's a huge issue in
this country. Yes, I believe it's certainly an issue with men.
But once a week at least at least a client
(19:45):
would ask me how I managed, or they've got a
loved one that they're worried, like you said, loved one
they're worried about, or they're worried about themselves. Yeah, and
I think, what courage that. Well, as you've taken the
first step.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, that's right. And we were alcohol free at home.
I don't drink. I've never really been a drinker at all.
I think from very early on in our marriage, I
just well, it doesn't bother me either way. I've never
been sort of like, oh I really want to drink,
or I'm quite happy not to drink. So then we
(20:17):
fell into the habit of what I would drive and
he would drink because he wasn't not going to drink.
So it was either we both drink or just he drinks.
So it was never ever an option that I would
drink and he wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
When did it reach a tipping point for you guys?
Or do you just didn't know the things? So he left,
He left yes, he come home one night and said,
I can't do it. But he was spiraling out of
control and he didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
He ran. He ran, and he ran because we were
the only ones that knew. So when he ran, he
surrounded himself with people that they were just vultures and
they were quite happy to party and drink, and you know,
birds of a feather flocked together, and that's where he went.
(21:12):
But you know, I just I was always firm in
my conversation with him, where I said, you know, the
door was always open when you're ready to stop running,
where he had to support you. I think my saving
grace with our relationship was I never took it personally.
Sean's addiction wasn't his reflection of his love for me.
(21:35):
He loved his family and he still did everything for
us because he loved us and I.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Even after he'd left.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Absolutely, he just ran. Nothing changed. He just ran. And
you know when he went into rehab. I've had so
many people, the doctors or owners of private health rehabs
that he'd gone into, have contacted me since he's passed
away to say what an incredible person, And they all
say he just spoke of how much he loved his
family the whole time. So it's hard, but I think
(22:10):
we need to understand that alcohol doesn't always stem from
unhappy marriages or unhappy families, or finances or lack of
a job or lack of a roof over your head.
Because he had all of that and he loved that.
He just didn't love himself.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, and he never addressed it.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
He didn't think he was worthy. And yeah, so that's
a really hard thing because I couldn't love him out
of it. He could only do it himself. So then
he would go and get the help, and then he
would spiral back into the depression and anxiety sleep deprivation cycle.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, and he was never able to manage that through
counseling or through meditation, or it was just something he
couldn't get a grip on.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
He would do it, he'd be fine for a while,
and then I don't know, I'll never know. I'll never
know what triggered him.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So when you talk about Sean being triggered, are you
talking about him being triggered to drinkah? And would he
try and hide it at first?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
He always hit it, always, always, Yeah, it was done
in secret.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
But then that's addiction, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, And it wasn't. Sort of like he was staggering
out of a part and it was all very apparent.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
He wasn't.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
He was going to work and he was doing twenty
hour days. But once everyone else had knocked off, he
would he would sit at his desk working and did
it after good.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Good male friends or the people. He could talk to
you about this, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
But he's no, he didn't talk to anyone about it,
so that must.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Be pretty lonely. Yeah, and he wouldn't talk about it
with you.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I have since been shown the power of shame and
how you can have guild and you can have shame,
and people think they're the same thing, and they're not.
They're two very very different scenarios. And you know, when
the padre came to visit myself and my daughters, he
(24:39):
was asking my daughter, you know, tell me about Dad,
and she said, you know, he was just my world.
But Dad just couldn't get over his shame. Even though
we said, Dad, you know we love you and we
are here to support you and you know, to paint
the picture. We weren't sitting at home ever in a negative.
It was always hope and growth and that kind of language,
(25:04):
and he just carried this shame of when the addiction
did take over and then he did run, and then
you know, he we welcomed him back in and he
got the help and things like that. Then he just
couldn't get past.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
It was more.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
He struggled with shame than addiction towards the end. And
you know, and the Padre explained to me that, you know,
guilt and shame are two very different things, and ones
like a box with three sides, And that's guilt because
you can sit in that open box and you can think, Okay,
I feel guilty and pretty lousy about what I've just done,
(25:39):
but there's pathways and I can get out of the
box that I'm in. But when you feel shame, you're
trapped inside of a box with no lid and silence.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Shame grows in silence, yes, and people with addictions are
really good at being silent.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yes, But it wasn't because he was unhappy. And I think,
you know this is we're all starting to learn this
now that we are talking about alcoholic dips and death
by suicide, particularly that it's not happening to our down
and outs. It's not happening to our I mean broadly speaking,
(26:16):
it's happening to every walk of life. But it's not
just people that have had something awful. And I know
from my own experience that people after Sean passed away,
we're digging into our family to find a reason, you
know that, oh, they must have gone broke, or their
(26:39):
marriage must be unhappy, or something's happened because we don't
we're not there yet when it comes to talking about
suicide and mental health, and particularly male mental health, and
we just don't want to think that it could just
happen to anyone. There doesn't have to be a reason
(26:59):
for it.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Something like ninety five percent of death by suicide, you know,
someone who decides to jump off a bridge or just
something under the influence of alcohol and drugs. It is huge. Now,
what have they made that decision? If they were sober
or hadn't completely, they would make a different decision. And
(27:24):
that might mean, like you said, doesn't mean necessarily they've
got an addiction issue or any but under that influence
of those substances, yeah, a temporary situation, they've made a
really patent decision. And my daughter Chloe did a big
research subject in Public Health on death by suicide with
(27:49):
men in mining camps for fifo. You know, and we
never hear about it, But one male a week dies
by suicide, one male a week in those camps or
goes home and can't cope and then takes his own life,
one a week, and you never hear about it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for using the language that's by
suicide too. I think it's definitely more relevant. You know,
we've shifted away from saying committed suicide because it's sounding
like a crime, and it's not a crime. It was
a cry for help.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Oh it's you know. I mean back in the day,
I mean, you weren't apparently meant to go to heaven,
or you weren't allowed to get your insurance, or there
were so many other factors around dying by suicide. And
thankfully a lot of that dialogue is changing. I know
(28:49):
from my own experience, having had depression and anxiety that
I mean, I would never have done anything, but there
are moments where I know I can remember thinking to myself,
this is.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Too hard, Yeah feel consuming.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
You know, it's too hard. And imagine if I had
had that thought and were still drinking the decision I
could have made from that, and I suppose that then
leads us into I suppose Part B of this conversation
(29:28):
that concludes Part A of this tough conversation. Next week
we'll continue right from where we left for Part B.
Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you
by CMR. We're proud to support nurses, doctors and allied
health professionals across all of Australia because when you feel supported,
(29:50):
whole communities thrive together. We're building happier healthcare and if
you want to learn more, check them out at CMR
dot com dot Au. And I just want to say,
these guys really care about their medical staff and get
in great jobs and employment for them, so definitely check
them out. I've been blown away by what they offer
(30:12):
and how they look after their teams. So if they're
worth checking out as a nurse in particular, but as
a healthcare worker, check them out at CMR dot com
dot Au
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