February 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Today on the podcast we chat with Registered Midwife, Sophie Dheda about her birthing experience.
Sophie herself is a registered midwife, and when it came time to birth her first baby, things didn’t quite go to plan.
A home birth ensued and thanks to the actions of her cousin (who was there as a support person) but is also a registered midwife, both Sophie and her baby survived this birthing experience.
However, this story doesn’t end there. A complaint was lodged in to AHPRA and an investigation followed.
We discuss all of this and so much more!
Thanks for listening.
Bek
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apolgiate Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity
to be, so I hit it and parked it for
Nellie four years. We always have free will, we always
get to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you for turning back into Tennis for Nurses. Today
we have Sophie Dietera with us, who's she's left just
breastfed her little Bubba and Hubby's taking the kids for a.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Little bit of a play at the park.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But Sophie's a midwife, had two really differing birthing experiences,
and I thought it'd be great for her to come
on and have a chat about her experience being a midwife,
having quite the first birthing I ordeal, and then her
second child being born and how she came into the world.
(01:03):
But also Sophie's had pretty interesting life experiences having worked
and given off her time to work in orphanages.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So welcome, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So fill us in a little bit about your background
and your study. Did you study your Bachelor of midwiffree
or did you do registered nursing And then midwif.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Free straight mid Okay, yeah, how long ago was that that?
I graduated in twenty eighteen end of twenty eighteen, so yeah,
I just did my straight Bachelor of meda three years
at ACU.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And then straight into the hospital sector. Yes, did you
ever want to do home birth?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thing?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Is it something that would ever be on your radar?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
When I was a student, I thought like that the
MGP model, so the mid free group practice is like
gold standard. I thought, that's absolutely what I'm going to
do as a midwife. But yeah, so straight into a
hospital for my GRADEA, I went out to Dolby. Think
it's really cool Delby. Yeah, well it definitely wasn't my
first reference, but I actually really loved being out there
(02:08):
and the sort of mid three that I got exposed
to out there being completely different to the big tertiary
hospitals where I did all my student training, so I
kind of got to see a lot more normal birthing,
which was amazing as a student. I did my training
in one of the big ones that in Brisbane, which
was good as a student because you see a vast
range of everything from normal to all the complications, all
(02:32):
the abnormal. But yeah, so being a grad midwife out
in Dolby was much better than what I thought it
was going to be. The midwives out there were beautiful
and if that hospital was here in Brisbane, I would
have just stayed there, But I didn't want to live
in Delby, so I get that, Yeah, a bit too
far away from everything here. Yeah, So did that for
(02:53):
a year, just over a year. I went into midle
free group practice. At the end of my grade year
they started to implement that model for all of the
women out there, so we kind of all the midwise
got to transition into that. So I did that for
I think five months at the end of my grade
yea and then going into my second year of mid
and I didn't love it. Why is that I just
(03:17):
couldn't get my head around being on call all the time?
I think I just for myself wanted to have some
more experience before I kind of went into doing like
the mid group practice.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
It's an interesting thing with nursing.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You don't know what you don't know, yeah, and then
the more skills you develop and the more you go along,
you realize that you thought you knew everything, but you
really didn't. And then you look back at that time,
and I don't know, this is very true within you
know my nursing career is I look back, I think,
oh my god, I thought I knew everything.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I really yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You sort of take stock of you think I probably
wouldn't have done that that happened. Now you would, and
I mean that's age, and that's experienced. You would certainly seeguay,
probably in a different way, not all the time. But
did you find that so obviously had insight though.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah. So as I said when I was a student,
I thought, mid group practice, that's definitely what I want
to do. You know, that continuity, that's the best outcome
for all women, having that continuity of care throughout their pregnancy,
their labor, their everything, and then postpartum, but then actually
being thrown into that model of care as a midwife.
(04:33):
For me, I loved all the women that I looked after.
I loved that I could see them from start to finish.
But I just didn't enjoy being on call. And that
was just my biggest thing. I think I just couldn't
train myself how to be on call properly, and I
couldn't switch my brain off when I wasn't on call,
and then having like other people's phones over the weekend,
(04:55):
and you're just like, oh my gosh, Like, how am
I gonna manage all of this?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
And it's not for everybody?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, and it's not. And I kind of was upset
that I didn't enjoy it much as what I thought
I would, But I'm glad that I got to experience
it for a few months, and maybe I'll get back
into it when like the girls are older and you
don't have other people to be looking after and you
can just be called in the middle of the night
and be up and do whatever you need to do
and not have children to look after. But so maybe
(05:22):
eventually I'll get back into it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
In Brisbane, are those midw free groups attached to the
different hospitals. Yeah, and then there's an independent.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, so that's not home birthing. Yes, So the middle
free group practice is just a model of care you
can select and I would say most hospitals have that
as an option, and there's just different advisor. Yeah, work
in smaller little groups in the group practice.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
And then is there an obstetrician that then it works
with you as well, or you call someone in their.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It would just be like the whoever's working in the
public hospital. Yeah, so it's just your little little groups
and you can select to be a part of that,
or you can if you don't want to do that
as your birth in experience, you can and do them
just be like through the public hospital system and you
just go to the clinic and get a different midwife
every time and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Okay, Yeah, do you think it's a good model of care?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I think yeah, it is a good model of care.
There's just not enough midwives available to do it. But
there's a way. They're just always have too many women,
i think in their case loads, and not enough midwives
to be working it. And a lot of women love
that model of care, so more people are opting to
have it, which is amazing. But then I just don't
(06:37):
think there's enough midwives to service it, and they get
burnt out and they get you know, working too many
hours over time.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And then is there a shortage of midwives?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, and there always will be with midwives and nurses,
isn't they.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's really problematic.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
A lot of midwives and nurses are leaving the health
space and going elsewhere. Yeah, because of so many reasons,
just workload bullying, work life balance, pay rates, it's there.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It's so problematic and it is.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean over a hundred psychiatrists are walking off the
job down in New South Wales right because they're not
there's no parody with pay with the other states, and the.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Same with the midwives down in New South Wales as well.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So they're all resigning in mass and it's going to
leave the mental health space, isn't it. Yeah, So imaginea
all midwives or the nurses or.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Strikes like that. It never happened.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I just think there should be one pay system across
all of Australia for all nurses and all doctors.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
We're all doing the same drill. I don't understand. We've
all had the same training, we've all got the same degrees,
So yeah, why is the pay not reflective.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Of That's so it's bizarre. Did you find having just
done straight midwif free and not r in midw free
do you think there was a real divide within the
midwif free space or no one cared?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Not really anymore, I don't think because they hard even
know how long it's been since they've had just a
straight midw free course in a while. It has been
a while, so obviously before that you had to be
a nurse first and then you could do extra to
be a midwife. But I think because the straight mid
has just been around for so long, there's so many
midwives who are just rms. So no, I don't think
(08:28):
so when you think about.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
It, Yeah, mire has been around for centuries.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Well yeah, and if you're working in a maternity setting,
you're not really working as a nurse.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
With the training they go into the full systems or
like you get also a knowledge of different disorders or
is it everything related to midw free.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
No, So the first year you do like your biology
classes and everything. So a lot of our classes in
the pretty much that first first year of mid you're
doing it with the nurses, of paramedics and the mid students,
so you kind of all together. So all your biology,
all your basic health professional subjects, all that sort of
stuff is with your nurses, paramedics and midwives. We kind
(09:14):
of all do the same courses and then after that
you kind of break off into your different streams.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, so what happened in your background that made you
want to go and give of your time and go
work in orphanages and how old were you when you
decided to do that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I the first time I went to Africa was when
I was sixteen, so I just went for a month
at the end of grade eleven. So we had family
friends that were missionaries and they had moved over to
a small little country called Lusutu. It's like a landlocked
country in South Africa. They moved to Lsutu to work
at an orphanage over there. So me and my sister
(09:54):
who's two years younger than me, went over with my
cousin just for a month to stay with them and
just to see what they were doing over there. And
just year I visit and I just loved it. We
fell in love with the orphanages that we went to visit,
and I was just like, I really want to come
back here when I finished school, So I did.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And how long were we there the second time?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Six months? The second time. It was amazing. By that point,
they had adopted two children from Lusutu themselves, so they
were preschooled in grade two. I think they were quite young,
and they were living up in the mountains and they
were working with some organizations over there doing helping to
like do some farming in the villages and stuff like that.
So I pretty much just went over there and just
(10:34):
lived with them for six months, and I just helped
home school there too little kids, hung out with the
village kids, and tried to form some relationships with some
other teenagers that were there, and kind of just followed
them along with what they did. In that six months.
I loved it absolutely, and it was really cool to
just experience that sort of village life and so just
(10:56):
see what they were doing over there and what different
missionaries and different organizations are doing in that country. And
then for my last month that I was there, I
went back to the city and volunteered at the orphanage,
so one of the main orphanages over there, and just
stayed with the other volunteers that were living there. So
I did that for my last month and really enjoyed
(11:16):
doing that. So I came home after my six months,
worked for a year and a bit, and then went
back again for another six months.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And was it education you were doing or was it health?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Was it teaching you know, hygiene, Was it just helping
to school the kids?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
It was probably mostly just helping with the school ling.
So my last six months didn't that I did.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I was.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, basically the orphanage stayed with the Yellow Volunteers and
just went to the orphanage every day, and everyone kind
of just did their own little thing that they wanted
to do when they were over there. So I was
helping another lady who was doing like after school programs
for all the school aged kids. So every afternoon we
would open up one of like their little rooms, and
(11:59):
we would have different grades each day and just help
help them with their homework, help them with English if
they had like assignments I needed help with. So it
was mostly this helping them with English. The younger kids
like their basic masks and stuff like that and doing
like educational games and so they had like these two
little function rooms, so we would do that in one room.
Then the other room was so for the older like
(12:22):
high school kids, and we just opened that up and
they just had like books and games and like a
pool table and stuff, and we would have like craft
activities and stuff in there.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So I think you decided to do midwif free.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
No, So I wanted to be a midwife for a
long time. So growing up, I've got heaps of cousins.
I've got two younger sisters and an older sister. But
I've always just been around babies and little children, and
I'm just comfortable with them. Like I just love babies,
and growing up, I would always like be babysitting like
my sisters and looking after like my older cousins their
(12:58):
little children and that sort of stuff, and just loved them.
So I just always thought, oh, just be a midwife,
like I love babies, isn't that what? Like what midwives do?
Was always fascinated with birth and that sort of thing,
and would always look through some books that my mum
had and of women giving birth, and I thought, that's
amazing it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Actually, when I worked with them, marda mom's every time,
it took my breath away every single time, and I.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Just used to always think what a miracle it was.
And that never changed.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Even if I see something on TV, I find it.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
You find yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I still find myself getting emotional when I see a
woman giving birth because it's it's so intimate and it's
so raw, and I've got goosebumpses talking about It's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
It is, so You've always been fascinated by it.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So, Sophie, your first birth was quite traumatic in that
Bubby arrived faster than you realized, couldn't get to the
hospital in time. You were very blessed that your cousin
had come to support you, which was her role was
to be a support person, even though she was rich
(14:14):
a midwife. She wasn't there in the capacity as a
birthing midwife. She was just one of your support people
with your husband. Yes, what transpired once you realized that
Bobby was coming sooner than you realized?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I think as soon as my cousin arrived, everything in
me just relaxed and I was able to just completely
let go to the process. So, yeah, we had made
the phone call to the hospital that we were coming,
we were on our way, and then I just all
of a sudden got urges to push, and I just
knew in myself that I didn't want to leave my
(14:53):
apartment and that I just didn't think I physically could. So, yeah,
I checked with my cousin obviously that she was okay
with me staying where I was and that she happy
for me to continue berthing our home, which she said yes.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And you would have assumed you let the hospital know
that this was transpiring.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, so once we decided, okay, we're just
staying here where everyone's comfortable with this decision. We then
caught the hospital back and said, actually, things have progressed
very quickly in the last few minutes. We're not coming in.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And you can't I mean once yeah, that urge to
push comes, there's nothing. You actually can't think of anything
else to do. That like, it just takes over, it
doesn't it, It does. Yeah, so you were pushing and pushing.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, So what I thought was, you know, not going
to take probably very long because I had those urges
to push, ended up being a couple of hours, which
is normal for a first time Yeah, mum to be
you know, pushing for a little while. But yeah, we
kind of just realized that the baby's head wasn't getting
(16:02):
past a certain point. We could just see a little
bit of her head through my pery and yeah, just
wasn't advancing any further. And I could feel my pery
so tight. I was trying to stretch it myself with
each contraction and trying to stretch and stretch, and just
I could I could feel how tight it was.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I just had to say, how impressed I am.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Right now, the fact that in between pushing you actually
had the.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Presence of mind to try and stretch a perieum.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That's out there, but I think that's probably what Do
you think that was your midwife training kicking in?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Probably, I think ye's remarkably women are amazing. We are.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
When did you realize that there was a problem and
Bubby wasn't going to progress because there was no given
the perodeum.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I think we tried so many different positions. I had
been in the shower and we just tried all different positions, standing,
legs up on the toilet, squatting, all sorts and make it,
pushing multiple times in those positions, and just nothing was changing.
So I moved on to the bed just so we
could have some more light and we could just really
(17:19):
fully see what was happening and going on. And by
doing that, my cousin could see that, Okay, we've got
like that white band around Ji Perry. It is just
that's the biggest indication that nothing's going to give. We
need to do an episiotomy.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
In the past, say our woman was at home birthing,
can get to a hospital in time. Would the peronem
just torn or are there some paranems that just don't.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I guess it's hard to know. Some probably, yeah, just don't.
I guess if you really didn't have anything and you
were just at home by yourself, that maybe it would
just really really badly tear or you would just have
to at that point find the strength to get into
an ambulance or into your car and go to the
(18:06):
hospital if you didn't have any health professionals around you
to because.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
What a health outcome If the baby can't get through
the birth and canal.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, the baby would get very distressed, especially like with
all that pressure on their head, and especially if you've
been pushing for a while, So that would be.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
The biggesting medication scenario would be the baby would get
so distressed that they would.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Die if it was left long enough.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Possibly Yeah, wow, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, when did the ambulance arrive? So we called the
ambulance after we had called the hospital to say change
of plans were not coming in. We hadn't decided we
were going to call an ambulance then. We didn't really
think it was necessary, but the hospital midwives kept calling
back and saying, Okay, if you're not coming to the hospital,
maybe you should have the paramedics there just, you know,
in case anything happens. So we said, okay, fine, we'll
(18:53):
call them. So they had been there for probably a
good couple of hours. Oh yeah, yeah, but they were amazing,
the two paramedics that came. They just they didn't interfere.
They didn't even come into the space until we moved
on to the bed and we realized, okay, we need
to be doing something.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
So they're really respectful of yourself. Yeah, they were at
the moment, and that's lovely.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, and I'm like my cousin obviously being a midwife,
they were probably more comfortable with her being in that
space because that's her bread and butter, whereas a paramedic
they you know. So yeah, they were very respectful of
us in that space. They just stayed in the hallway
until we needed them, got them into the room when
we realized, okay, we need to do something here.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So at that stage, you realized you need to do
in a poy. Yes, So do you want to explain
for the listeners that may not know what any is?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
An episiotomy is when you have to cut the perineum.
So you make a cut, usually on the right side,
with scissors. In a hospital, we have like a pisiotomy
of scissors. They're just on an angle and they're just
what you use normally. You would, if you haven't already
got an epidurol on board, you would give like local
anesthetic to the perry so that you can't feel it.
(20:09):
And yeah, so it's just a cut downe to the
perineum to allow space for the baby to be born.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
And do you want to explain where the perineum.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Is, Well, it's the part between your vagina and us.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So when women get tearing in child birth, that's usually where.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, it occurs.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Usually, Yeah, you can get internal tears and to other
parts your laborer and all that sort of stuff. But yeah,
first second degree, third degree tares, a fourth degree all
through the perineum.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, that's pretty nasty.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, I mean the theater.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
When so you decided or your cousin decided that you
really needed to happen to pisiotomy. She then proceeded to
cut the perineum and baby was born. Yes, and fairly
rapidly after that, I'm assuming.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, pretty much as soon as we did the cut,
baby was born.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
But the story doesn't end here with a healthy bubby.
It actually turned into a little bit of a significant
event for your cousin and for you guys. Yes, in
that a complaint was then put in to our the
Nursing MIDWI regoverning governing board and opera about your cousin. Yes,
(21:35):
do you want to explain what happened there?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I can only explain from what I So, my cousin
did absolutely everything necessary that she had to do to
deliver a safe baby. She was put in a position
by myself to change her role from going from my
support person to a mid with a midwife role with
(21:58):
no equipment, So I put that on her, which at
the time she was okay with and we discussed that,
and yes, she was absolutely comfortable to be there as
my midwife now. But yeah, working with very little resources,
only what the paramedics had. So yeah, baby born needed
a little bit of assistance with her breathing, which indicated
(22:21):
to us that absolutely the episiotomy was necessary, but in
the condition that the baby came out, so that was
all fine. I was absolutely fine with the events that happened.
But yes, not long after baby was born, maybe like
a week or so a complaint was put in to
Aprah against my cousin.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
How did that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Absolutely awful? That was my fault that I put her
in that situation and for that to then happen to
her when all she was doing was delivering my baby safely.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So a senior paramedic came, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
A critical care paramedic came along to the scene. I
I'm of blurry all the timeline of events and who
was actually present for what parts of it. My understanding though,
is that the critical care paramedic was not there at
the time of the episiotomy my daughter being born. She
was kind of under there just after we needed to
do some help with the baby. So yeah, she didn't
(23:23):
witness the birth. And we don't know who exactly put
the complaint in, but most likely it was one of
those paramedics. But judging from the two paramedics that had
been there the whole time, they were so respectful and
so lovely throughout the whole process and even postpartum, that
I don't believe it would have been one of them.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
When the third paramedic ry, the critical care paramedic, what
equipment did they bring with them?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Not a lot. I think she had just some more
like baby recess equipment and maybe more like birth like
more of a birth kit. But when we needed to
use a mask to help my daughter with her breathing,
it wasn't even the right size marks that fit her face.
(24:11):
And so my cousin was doing everything that she could
with the equipment that she had.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
So it's a bit like that Swiss cheese.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Pecked, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And everything lines up and the holes all line up,
and yeah, why do you think someone would put a
complainting when you your life was saved and your baby's
life was saved, and what transpired really happened so fast
it was out of your control, absolutely, and you were
(24:41):
so blessed to have your cousin with you who was
a midwife, and she was able and comfortably step into
that role of which I have no doubt forever in
a day you'll be so grateful for.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Why would someone do that?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I don't know, but I know that midwives, especially private
practicing midwives, there's just it's just a witch hunt for them, absolutely,
for whatever reason, I don't know. Even APRA doesn't support
them as much as they should.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Reboard certainly doesn't.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
No, No, so yeah, I don't know why someone would
want to put in a complaint like that when, as
you say, yeah, she literally saved my life, saved my
baby's life. If it wasn't for her, I would have
it would have been a lot more traumatic if she
wasn't there or wasn't a midwife and I had to
transfer to the hospital with a babysitting on my perineum
(25:38):
and in so much pain. Oh, and go through that
whole process at the hospital, And the exact same events
would have unfolded in a hospital. So it's not that
we did anything unnecessary or that we year I wouldn't
have been done in a hospital.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It's interesting if you've listened to the podcast that I
did with Kelly. She transferred a mother and the baby
was actually born in the hospital, and then a hospital
put a complaint in against her. But the baby was
actually born in the hospital and she did all the
right things.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yep, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
It blows me away that will the responsibility of that
birth was actually at the hospital, you know, and Kelly
did everything right.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Home birthing midwives, the women who choose to homebirth, everyone's
so scared of that who has no understanding or has
little understanding of just how normal birth is. That it's
just a physiological process. It's not a medical event. But
everyone who's not trained in it is so scared of
it for some reason. What do you think that is?
(26:52):
I don't know the way that birth and pregnancy is
portrayed in the media, that people think that you have
to have a doctor, president, you have to it has
to be done in a hospital, that that is the
safest option for people, when in reality it really isn't.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And people are allowed to have a choice absolutely, you know,
and women have been doing this, oh how long.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Exactly, exactly forever exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
So I do.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, it's a bit of a minefield for my wives,
I believe, especially midwifes. Absolutely, when the complaint went in,
were you notified or was your cousin notified?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Or you just found out through your cousin.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I found out through my cousin. Yeah, so she was
notified that, yeah, this complaint has been put in, and
then she always had to go through the necessary process.
I was never contacted to make a statement or anything
like that. It kind of my cousin went home after that.
Berth and wrote lots and lots of notes about it
(27:56):
because I think in her head she thought something's probably
going to come from this, So I'm just gonna write
all of my notes while it's fresh in my mind.
So I've got, yeah, my own documentation of what happened.
And yeah, she was right not long after she received
a complaint. But I think once she submitted her statement
and all of her documentation, nothing then came of it.
(28:21):
But was she stood down while I believe she was. Yes,
And the thing I think that cut her so much
is that they said you've been deemed unsafe to practice end,
which she absolutely is not unsafe.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
She saved your life and yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, but I know that's what hurt her the most
for someone to say that about her. This biggest passion
of her life has been to be a midwife and
she's an absolutely amazing one. And yeah, to have something
like this happen and be told or you're unsafe to
(28:58):
practice and you can't practice while this investigation is going on.
That really so while.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
The investigation was on, she was stood down and actually
couldn't make a living. Yes, that's horrendous, it is, and
the impact that has on people is profound.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, absolutely, it's traumatic. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Once she had the right to reply and sent in
her notes, what transpired from that that just she'd been.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Cleared, I believe. So yeah, yeah, I'm not one hundred
percent sure what kind of happened after that, But yas
I said, I never got notified to even about the complaint.
I never got asked to make a statement. My husband didn't.
Nobody else at the hospital got asked to do anything.
So yeah, I think once she wrote in her reply
(29:45):
and everything like that, it was realized that what she
did was correct, it was safe, she did what she
had to in the circumstances. And yeah, then nothing came
of it after that.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So if this is hypothetical, if you had have had
another cousin with you that wasn't a midwife, but you
as a birthing midwife like new enough to say, oh
my god, we need to do an episiotomy, and a
lay person had have done what your cousin did, nothing
(30:16):
would have come of that.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Would it, No, Because they're not governed by anything.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So no, but she wasn't. She wasn't with you in
the capacity as a midwife.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
So I find it hard to comprehend why a complaint
was put in when yes, she stepped up and did
use her knowledge to protect you and protect the baby.
But her role there wasn't as a midwife.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, so that just gives me away. But I guess
if she, yea, if she wasn't a midwife, was just
a normal person, nothing would have come of it, No,
because who do you make a complaint to if they
don't have a governing body.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
But I wonder if people realize when they put complaints
in like that, if they think about the impact and
the trauma it causes healthcare professionals, because I know nurses
within the aesthetic space that patients haven't been happy with
an outcome from say piller and they've put a complaint in,
(31:25):
and the trauma and stress that has caused that nurse
has been horrendous yea, And they don't think about that.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I don't think so, because it affects their practice. It
affects what they think of themselves.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And they question themselves.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
They do when they're such safe practitioners and have been
doing it for a very long time. But yeah, as
soon as someone makes that complaint, even if you know
that the complaint isn't correct or valid or anything like that.
It still, yeah, makes you question your practice.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
It's an interesting thing.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yvon Smythe came and spoke on the podcast and she's
the Q and mus laws had lawyers, and she was saying,
in relationships where there's DV cost of control that sort
of thing, partners were ringing up and or putting in
complaints about their partners who were nurses to make their
(32:26):
life hell and then they were being investigated by Reward
an opera. And how that can happen is beyond me,
but it was. It's something that happens. And you know,
I'm sure you know. It's a stressful enough time going
(32:46):
through a divorce, break up, removing yourself from an unsafe environment,
and then on top of that to be concerned about
your profession and being able to work. And I do
think there needs to be some vetting of some of
the complaints.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
To be but come in I believe, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
So how do you look back at that birth?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Do you look back at it as it was a
remarkable time, It was a stressful moment in your life.
It's something you can sit back and have a bit
of a dare I sayd giggle about now, I'm just
got Oh my god, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Now, how does it?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
How does this sit with you now?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I honestly hold no trauma with that birth. Everyone else
around me does, I personally don't. I think it's a
pretty remarkable birth story.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yes, my cousin and I can have a little giggle
about things, but no, I hold absolutely no trauma against it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I was just so grateful to have had my cousin
there and honestly owe her my life and my baby's life.
We've all had babies. She has been present at every
single one of Beautiful my sister's births, and not in
his role as a midwife. She's just been support person
and a photographer for nearly all of them. But we've
all been like, we can't do this birth without you,
(34:10):
so you have to be there in some capacity. And yeah,
she was now a private practicing midwife and I had
a home birth with her with my second baby, Coker.
So we just did it all properly and it was
absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
And went like a dream.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It did. Yeah, you would do a home birth again.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, and you felt it was a really beautiful private special.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
It was, and it was honestly was as I said,
happened really quickly. It was a little bit chaotic. I
was hoping that the second time around it was going
to be a little bit more healing for my husband
because he the first time everything that happened, We were
not expecting obviously, any of that to go the way
that it did. And he was absolutely amazing through it.
(34:52):
But I think he probably holds the most trauma witnessing
that for the first time.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Do you think it's a protective thing of the man
and the husband that he was not just worried about you,
He was worried about his bubba.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, like it.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It was in a hole, and he can't control anything
at that moment.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, I can't control it. Didn't really know what was
going on, didn't know if that was normal or not. So, yeah,
a little bit traumatic for him. So I was hoping, yeah,
the second time around, it was going to be nice
and calm, nice and beautiful healing for him. But it
was quite chaotic. He had just got Remy to sleep,
I was in the shower. He was trying to then
blow up the birth pool as I'm making all these noises,
(35:31):
and the birth pool then wasn't We couldn't fill it up,
but the hose wasn't working. Jumped into the bath with
the midwives on the phone asking how far away are you?
They're only ten minutes away. But then Koku was born
and then the midwives turned up literally literally a minute later.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
So you birthed your second child by yourself?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes, oh my god, yes, so that one. But it
was beautiful, it was nothing went wrong, so did she
that you? I was just in the bath. He was
obviously right next to me. We had the midwives on
the phone trying to help me breathe through my contractions,
but just my body was taking over, and oh my god,
(36:14):
I was born and I'm not kidding. Literally a minute
later they burst through the door.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
See you don't just have one, You've got two great
bairth stories.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yeah, you're remarkable. I love it. Well, thank you so
much for sharing my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Your two remarkable stories of And you know what the
thing to remember is right now happening. There is a
baby being born in some crazy, remote, yeap, out of
the way place and they're coping.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Fine, absolutely so if we just let birth be birth,
and just let women's bodies do what they need to do.
That will be fine. We just need to leave them alone.
Sometimes time and a place for intervention absolutely, but majority
of the time, if we can just leave women alone
to just go into themselves, give way to their bodies
(37:12):
and their babies, that's so beautiful. Thank you so much, pleasure.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I love that chat.
Apolgiate Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity
to be, so I hit it and parked it for
Nellie four years. We always have free will, we always
get to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you for turning back into Tennis for Nurses. Today
we have Sophie Dietera with us, who's she's left just
breastfed her little Bubba and Hubby's taking the kids for a.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Little bit of a play at the park.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But Sophie's a midwife, had two really differing birthing experiences,
and I thought it'd be great for her to come
on and have a chat about her experience being a midwife,
having quite the first birthing I ordeal, and then her
second child being born and how she came into the world.
(01:03):
But also Sophie's had pretty interesting life experiences having worked
and given off her time to work in orphanages.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So welcome, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So fill us in a little bit about your background
and your study. Did you study your Bachelor of midwiffree
or did you do registered nursing And then midwif.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Free straight mid Okay, yeah, how long ago was that that?
I graduated in twenty eighteen end of twenty eighteen, so yeah,
I just did my straight Bachelor of meda three years
at ACU.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And then straight into the hospital sector. Yes, did you
ever want to do home birth?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thing?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Is it something that would ever be on your radar?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
When I was a student, I thought like that the
MGP model, so the mid free group practice is like
gold standard. I thought, that's absolutely what I'm going to
do as a midwife. But yeah, so straight into a
hospital for my GRADEA, I went out to Dolby. Think
it's really cool Delby. Yeah, well it definitely wasn't my
first reference, but I actually really loved being out there
(02:08):
and the sort of mid three that I got exposed
to out there being completely different to the big tertiary
hospitals where I did all my student training, so I
kind of got to see a lot more normal birthing,
which was amazing as a student. I did my training
in one of the big ones that in Brisbane, which
was good as a student because you see a vast
range of everything from normal to all the complications, all
(02:32):
the abnormal. But yeah, so being a grad midwife out
in Dolby was much better than what I thought it
was going to be. The midwives out there were beautiful
and if that hospital was here in Brisbane, I would
have just stayed there, But I didn't want to live
in Delby, so I get that, Yeah, a bit too
far away from everything here. Yeah, So did that for
(02:53):
a year, just over a year. I went into midle
free group practice. At the end of my grade year
they started to implement that model for all of the
women out there, so we kind of all the midwise
got to transition into that. So I did that for
I think five months at the end of my grade
yea and then going into my second year of mid
and I didn't love it. Why is that I just
(03:17):
couldn't get my head around being on call all the time?
I think I just for myself wanted to have some
more experience before I kind of went into doing like
the mid group practice.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
It's an interesting thing with nursing.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You don't know what you don't know, yeah, and then
the more skills you develop and the more you go along,
you realize that you thought you knew everything, but you
really didn't. And then you look back at that time,
and I don't know, this is very true within you
know my nursing career is I look back, I think,
oh my god, I thought I knew everything.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I really yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You sort of take stock of you think I probably
wouldn't have done that that happened. Now you would, and
I mean that's age, and that's experienced. You would certainly seeguay,
probably in a different way, not all the time. But
did you find that so obviously had insight though.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah. So as I said when I was a student,
I thought, mid group practice, that's definitely what I want
to do. You know, that continuity, that's the best outcome
for all women, having that continuity of care throughout their pregnancy,
their labor, their everything, and then postpartum, but then actually
being thrown into that model of care as a midwife.
(04:33):
For me, I loved all the women that I looked after.
I loved that I could see them from start to finish.
But I just didn't enjoy being on call. And that
was just my biggest thing. I think I just couldn't
train myself how to be on call properly, and I
couldn't switch my brain off when I wasn't on call,
and then having like other people's phones over the weekend,
(04:55):
and you're just like, oh my gosh, Like, how am
I gonna manage all of this?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
And it's not for everybody?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, and it's not. And I kind of was upset
that I didn't enjoy it much as what I thought
I would, But I'm glad that I got to experience
it for a few months, and maybe I'll get back
into it when like the girls are older and you
don't have other people to be looking after and you
can just be called in the middle of the night
and be up and do whatever you need to do
and not have children to look after. But so maybe
(05:22):
eventually I'll get back into it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
In Brisbane, are those midw free groups attached to the
different hospitals. Yeah, and then there's an independent.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, so that's not home birthing. Yes, So the middle
free group practice is just a model of care you
can select and I would say most hospitals have that
as an option, and there's just different advisor. Yeah, work
in smaller little groups in the group practice.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
And then is there an obstetrician that then it works
with you as well, or you call someone in their.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It would just be like the whoever's working in the
public hospital. Yeah, so it's just your little little groups
and you can select to be a part of that,
or you can if you don't want to do that
as your birth in experience, you can and do them
just be like through the public hospital system and you
just go to the clinic and get a different midwife
every time and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Okay, Yeah, do you think it's a good model of care?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I think yeah, it is a good model of care.
There's just not enough midwives available to do it. But
there's a way. They're just always have too many women,
i think in their case loads, and not enough midwives
to be working it. And a lot of women love
that model of care, so more people are opting to
have it, which is amazing. But then I just don't
(06:37):
think there's enough midwives to service it, and they get
burnt out and they get you know, working too many
hours over time.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And then is there a shortage of midwives?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, and there always will be with midwives and nurses,
isn't they.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's really problematic.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
A lot of midwives and nurses are leaving the health
space and going elsewhere. Yeah, because of so many reasons,
just workload bullying, work life balance, pay rates, it's there.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It's so problematic and it is.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean over a hundred psychiatrists are walking off the
job down in New South Wales right because they're not
there's no parody with pay with the other states, and the.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Same with the midwives down in New South Wales as well.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So they're all resigning in mass and it's going to
leave the mental health space, isn't it. Yeah, So imaginea
all midwives or the nurses or.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Strikes like that. It never happened.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I just think there should be one pay system across
all of Australia for all nurses and all doctors.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
We're all doing the same drill. I don't understand. We've
all had the same training, we've all got the same degrees,
So yeah, why is the pay not reflective.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Of That's so it's bizarre. Did you find having just
done straight midwif free and not r in midw free
do you think there was a real divide within the
midwif free space or no one cared?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Not really anymore, I don't think because they hard even
know how long it's been since they've had just a
straight midw free course in a while. It has been
a while, so obviously before that you had to be
a nurse first and then you could do extra to
be a midwife. But I think because the straight mid
has just been around for so long, there's so many
midwives who are just rms. So no, I don't think
(08:28):
so when you think about.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
It, Yeah, mire has been around for centuries.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Well yeah, and if you're working in a maternity setting,
you're not really working as a nurse.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
With the training they go into the full systems or
like you get also a knowledge of different disorders or
is it everything related to midw free.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
No, So the first year you do like your biology
classes and everything. So a lot of our classes in
the pretty much that first first year of mid you're
doing it with the nurses, of paramedics and the mid students,
so you kind of all together. So all your biology,
all your basic health professional subjects, all that sort of
stuff is with your nurses, paramedics and midwives. We kind
(09:14):
of all do the same courses and then after that
you kind of break off into your different streams.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, so what happened in your background that made you
want to go and give of your time and go
work in orphanages and how old were you when you
decided to do that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I the first time I went to Africa was when
I was sixteen, so I just went for a month
at the end of grade eleven. So we had family
friends that were missionaries and they had moved over to
a small little country called Lusutu. It's like a landlocked
country in South Africa. They moved to Lsutu to work
at an orphanage over there. So me and my sister
(09:54):
who's two years younger than me, went over with my
cousin just for a month to stay with them and
just to see what they were doing over there. And
just year I visit and I just loved it. We
fell in love with the orphanages that we went to visit,
and I was just like, I really want to come
back here when I finished school, So I did.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And how long were we there the second time?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Six months? The second time. It was amazing. By that point,
they had adopted two children from Lusutu themselves, so they
were preschooled in grade two. I think they were quite young,
and they were living up in the mountains and they
were working with some organizations over there doing helping to
like do some farming in the villages and stuff like that.
So I pretty much just went over there and just
(10:34):
lived with them for six months, and I just helped
home school there too little kids, hung out with the
village kids, and tried to form some relationships with some
other teenagers that were there, and kind of just followed
them along with what they did. In that six months.
I loved it absolutely, and it was really cool to
just experience that sort of village life and so just
(10:56):
see what they were doing over there and what different
missionaries and different organizations are doing in that country. And
then for my last month that I was there, I
went back to the city and volunteered at the orphanage,
so one of the main orphanages over there, and just
stayed with the other volunteers that were living there. So
I did that for my last month and really enjoyed
(11:16):
doing that. So I came home after my six months,
worked for a year and a bit, and then went
back again for another six months.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And was it education you were doing or was it health?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Was it teaching you know, hygiene, Was it just helping
to school the kids?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
It was probably mostly just helping with the school ling.
So my last six months didn't that I did.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I was.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, basically the orphanage stayed with the Yellow Volunteers and
just went to the orphanage every day, and everyone kind
of just did their own little thing that they wanted
to do when they were over there. So I was
helping another lady who was doing like after school programs
for all the school aged kids. So every afternoon we
would open up one of like their little rooms, and
(11:59):
we would have different grades each day and just help
help them with their homework, help them with English if
they had like assignments I needed help with. So it
was mostly this helping them with English. The younger kids
like their basic masks and stuff like that and doing
like educational games and so they had like these two
little function rooms, so we would do that in one room.
Then the other room was so for the older like
(12:22):
high school kids, and we just opened that up and
they just had like books and games and like a
pool table and stuff, and we would have like craft
activities and stuff in there.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So I think you decided to do midwif free.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
No, So I wanted to be a midwife for a
long time. So growing up, I've got heaps of cousins.
I've got two younger sisters and an older sister. But
I've always just been around babies and little children, and
I'm just comfortable with them. Like I just love babies,
and growing up, I would always like be babysitting like
my sisters and looking after like my older cousins their
(12:58):
little children and that sort of stuff, and just loved them.
So I just always thought, oh, just be a midwife,
like I love babies, isn't that what? Like what midwives do?
Was always fascinated with birth and that sort of thing,
and would always look through some books that my mum
had and of women giving birth, and I thought, that's
amazing it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Actually, when I worked with them, marda mom's every time,
it took my breath away every single time, and I.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Just used to always think what a miracle it was.
And that never changed.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Even if I see something on TV, I find it.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
You find yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I still find myself getting emotional when I see a
woman giving birth because it's it's so intimate and it's
so raw, and I've got goosebumpses talking about It's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
It is, so You've always been fascinated by it.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So, Sophie, your first birth was quite traumatic in that
Bubby arrived faster than you realized, couldn't get to the
hospital in time. You were very blessed that your cousin
had come to support you, which was her role was
to be a support person, even though she was rich
(14:14):
a midwife. She wasn't there in the capacity as a
birthing midwife. She was just one of your support people
with your husband. Yes, what transpired once you realized that
Bobby was coming sooner than you realized?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I think as soon as my cousin arrived, everything in
me just relaxed and I was able to just completely
let go to the process. So, yeah, we had made
the phone call to the hospital that we were coming,
we were on our way, and then I just all
of a sudden got urges to push, and I just
knew in myself that I didn't want to leave my
(14:53):
apartment and that I just didn't think I physically could. So, yeah,
I checked with my cousin obviously that she was okay
with me staying where I was and that she happy
for me to continue berthing our home, which she said yes.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And you would have assumed you let the hospital know
that this was transpiring.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, so once we decided, okay, we're just
staying here where everyone's comfortable with this decision. We then
caught the hospital back and said, actually, things have progressed
very quickly in the last few minutes. We're not coming in.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And you can't I mean once yeah, that urge to
push comes, there's nothing. You actually can't think of anything
else to do. That like, it just takes over, it
doesn't it, It does. Yeah, so you were pushing and pushing.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, So what I thought was, you know, not going
to take probably very long because I had those urges
to push, ended up being a couple of hours, which
is normal for a first time Yeah, mum to be
you know, pushing for a little while. But yeah, we
kind of just realized that the baby's head wasn't getting
(16:02):
past a certain point. We could just see a little
bit of her head through my pery and yeah, just
wasn't advancing any further. And I could feel my pery
so tight. I was trying to stretch it myself with
each contraction and trying to stretch and stretch, and just
I could I could feel how tight it was.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I just had to say, how impressed I am.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Right now, the fact that in between pushing you actually
had the.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Presence of mind to try and stretch a perieum.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That's out there, but I think that's probably what Do
you think that was your midwife training kicking in?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Probably, I think ye's remarkably women are amazing. We are.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
When did you realize that there was a problem and
Bubby wasn't going to progress because there was no given
the perodeum.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I think we tried so many different positions. I had
been in the shower and we just tried all different positions, standing,
legs up on the toilet, squatting, all sorts and make it,
pushing multiple times in those positions, and just nothing was changing.
So I moved on to the bed just so we
could have some more light and we could just really
(17:19):
fully see what was happening and going on. And by
doing that, my cousin could see that, Okay, we've got
like that white band around Ji Perry. It is just
that's the biggest indication that nothing's going to give. We
need to do an episiotomy.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
In the past, say our woman was at home birthing,
can get to a hospital in time. Would the peronem
just torn or are there some paranems that just don't.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I guess it's hard to know. Some probably, yeah, just don't.
I guess if you really didn't have anything and you
were just at home by yourself, that maybe it would
just really really badly tear or you would just have
to at that point find the strength to get into
an ambulance or into your car and go to the
(18:06):
hospital if you didn't have any health professionals around you
to because.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
What a health outcome If the baby can't get through
the birth and canal.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, the baby would get very distressed, especially like with
all that pressure on their head, and especially if you've
been pushing for a while, So that would be.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
The biggesting medication scenario would be the baby would get
so distressed that they would.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Die if it was left long enough.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Possibly Yeah, wow, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, when did the ambulance arrive? So we called the
ambulance after we had called the hospital to say change
of plans were not coming in. We hadn't decided we
were going to call an ambulance then. We didn't really
think it was necessary, but the hospital midwives kept calling
back and saying, Okay, if you're not coming to the hospital,
maybe you should have the paramedics there just, you know,
in case anything happens. So we said, okay, fine, we'll
(18:53):
call them. So they had been there for probably a
good couple of hours. Oh yeah, yeah, but they were amazing,
the two paramedics that came. They just they didn't interfere.
They didn't even come into the space until we moved
on to the bed and we realized, okay, we need
to be doing something.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
So they're really respectful of yourself. Yeah, they were at
the moment, and that's lovely.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, and I'm like my cousin obviously being a midwife,
they were probably more comfortable with her being in that
space because that's her bread and butter, whereas a paramedic
they you know. So yeah, they were very respectful of
us in that space. They just stayed in the hallway
until we needed them, got them into the room when
we realized, okay, we need to do something here.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So at that stage, you realized you need to do
in a poy. Yes, So do you want to explain
for the listeners that may not know what any is?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
An episiotomy is when you have to cut the perineum.
So you make a cut, usually on the right side,
with scissors. In a hospital, we have like a pisiotomy
of scissors. They're just on an angle and they're just
what you use normally. You would, if you haven't already
got an epidurol on board, you would give like local
anesthetic to the perry so that you can't feel it.
(20:09):
And yeah, so it's just a cut downe to the
perineum to allow space for the baby to be born.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
And do you want to explain where the perineum.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Is, Well, it's the part between your vagina and us.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So when women get tearing in child birth, that's usually where.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, it occurs.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Usually, Yeah, you can get internal tears and to other
parts your laborer and all that sort of stuff. But yeah,
first second degree, third degree tares, a fourth degree all
through the perineum.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, that's pretty nasty.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, I mean the theater.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
When so you decided or your cousin decided that you
really needed to happen to pisiotomy. She then proceeded to
cut the perineum and baby was born. Yes, and fairly
rapidly after that, I'm assuming.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, pretty much as soon as we did the cut,
baby was born.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
But the story doesn't end here with a healthy bubby.
It actually turned into a little bit of a significant
event for your cousin and for you guys. Yes, in
that a complaint was then put in to our the
Nursing MIDWI regoverning governing board and opera about your cousin. Yes,
(21:35):
do you want to explain what happened there?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I can only explain from what I So, my cousin
did absolutely everything necessary that she had to do to
deliver a safe baby. She was put in a position
by myself to change her role from going from my
support person to a mid with a midwife role with
(21:58):
no equipment, So I put that on her, which at
the time she was okay with and we discussed that,
and yes, she was absolutely comfortable to be there as
my midwife now. But yeah, working with very little resources,
only what the paramedics had. So yeah, baby born needed
a little bit of assistance with her breathing, which indicated
(22:21):
to us that absolutely the episiotomy was necessary, but in
the condition that the baby came out, so that was
all fine. I was absolutely fine with the events that happened.
But yes, not long after baby was born, maybe like
a week or so a complaint was put in to
Aprah against my cousin.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
How did that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Absolutely awful? That was my fault that I put her
in that situation and for that to then happen to
her when all she was doing was delivering my baby safely.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So a senior paramedic came, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
A critical care paramedic came along to the scene. I
I'm of blurry all the timeline of events and who
was actually present for what parts of it. My understanding though,
is that the critical care paramedic was not there at
the time of the episiotomy my daughter being born. She
was kind of under there just after we needed to
do some help with the baby. So yeah, she didn't
(23:23):
witness the birth. And we don't know who exactly put
the complaint in, but most likely it was one of
those paramedics. But judging from the two paramedics that had
been there the whole time, they were so respectful and
so lovely throughout the whole process and even postpartum, that
I don't believe it would have been one of them.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
When the third paramedic ry, the critical care paramedic, what
equipment did they bring with them?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Not a lot. I think she had just some more
like baby recess equipment and maybe more like birth like
more of a birth kit. But when we needed to
use a mask to help my daughter with her breathing,
it wasn't even the right size marks that fit her face.
(24:11):
And so my cousin was doing everything that she could
with the equipment that she had.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
So it's a bit like that Swiss cheese.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Pecked, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And everything lines up and the holes all line up,
and yeah, why do you think someone would put a
complainting when you your life was saved and your baby's
life was saved, and what transpired really happened so fast
it was out of your control, absolutely, and you were
(24:41):
so blessed to have your cousin with you who was
a midwife, and she was able and comfortably step into
that role of which I have no doubt forever in
a day you'll be so grateful for.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Why would someone do that?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I don't know, but I know that midwives, especially private
practicing midwives, there's just it's just a witch hunt for them, absolutely,
for whatever reason, I don't know. Even APRA doesn't support
them as much as they should.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Reboard certainly doesn't.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
No, No, so yeah, I don't know why someone would
want to put in a complaint like that when, as
you say, yeah, she literally saved my life, saved my
baby's life. If it wasn't for her, I would have
it would have been a lot more traumatic if she
wasn't there or wasn't a midwife and I had to
transfer to the hospital with a babysitting on my perineum
(25:38):
and in so much pain. Oh, and go through that
whole process at the hospital, And the exact same events
would have unfolded in a hospital. So it's not that
we did anything unnecessary or that we year I wouldn't
have been done in a hospital.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It's interesting if you've listened to the podcast that I
did with Kelly. She transferred a mother and the baby
was actually born in the hospital, and then a hospital
put a complaint in against her. But the baby was
actually born in the hospital and she did all the
right things.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yep, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
It blows me away that will the responsibility of that
birth was actually at the hospital, you know, and Kelly
did everything right.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Home birthing midwives, the women who choose to homebirth, everyone's
so scared of that who has no understanding or has
little understanding of just how normal birth is. That it's
just a physiological process. It's not a medical event. But
everyone who's not trained in it is so scared of
it for some reason. What do you think that is?
(26:52):
I don't know the way that birth and pregnancy is
portrayed in the media, that people think that you have
to have a doctor, president, you have to it has
to be done in a hospital, that that is the
safest option for people, when in reality it really isn't.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And people are allowed to have a choice absolutely, you know,
and women have been doing this, oh how long.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Exactly, exactly forever exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
So I do.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, it's a bit of a minefield for my wives,
I believe, especially midwifes. Absolutely, when the complaint went in,
were you notified or was your cousin notified?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Or you just found out through your cousin.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I found out through my cousin. Yeah, so she was
notified that, yeah, this complaint has been put in, and
then she always had to go through the necessary process.
I was never contacted to make a statement or anything
like that. It kind of my cousin went home after that.
Berth and wrote lots and lots of notes about it
(27:56):
because I think in her head she thought something's probably
going to come from this, So I'm just gonna write
all of my notes while it's fresh in my mind.
So I've got, yeah, my own documentation of what happened.
And yeah, she was right not long after she received
a complaint. But I think once she submitted her statement
and all of her documentation, nothing then came of it.
(28:21):
But was she stood down while I believe she was. Yes,
And the thing I think that cut her so much
is that they said you've been deemed unsafe to practice end,
which she absolutely is not unsafe.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
She saved your life and yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, but I know that's what hurt her the most
for someone to say that about her. This biggest passion
of her life has been to be a midwife and
she's an absolutely amazing one. And yeah, to have something
like this happen and be told or you're unsafe to
(28:58):
practice and you can't practice while this investigation is going on.
That really so while.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
The investigation was on, she was stood down and actually
couldn't make a living. Yes, that's horrendous, it is, and
the impact that has on people is profound.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, absolutely, it's traumatic. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Once she had the right to reply and sent in
her notes, what transpired from that that just she'd been.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Cleared, I believe. So yeah, yeah, I'm not one hundred
percent sure what kind of happened after that, But yas
I said, I never got notified to even about the complaint.
I never got asked to make a statement. My husband didn't.
Nobody else at the hospital got asked to do anything.
So yeah, I think once she wrote in her reply
(29:45):
and everything like that, it was realized that what she
did was correct, it was safe, she did what she
had to in the circumstances. And yeah, then nothing came
of it after that.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So if this is hypothetical, if you had have had
another cousin with you that wasn't a midwife, but you
as a birthing midwife like new enough to say, oh
my god, we need to do an episiotomy, and a
lay person had have done what your cousin did, nothing
(30:16):
would have come of that.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Would it, No, Because they're not governed by anything.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So no, but she wasn't. She wasn't with you in
the capacity as a midwife.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
So I find it hard to comprehend why a complaint
was put in when yes, she stepped up and did
use her knowledge to protect you and protect the baby.
But her role there wasn't as a midwife.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, so that just gives me away. But I guess
if she, yea, if she wasn't a midwife, was just
a normal person, nothing would have come of it, No,
because who do you make a complaint to if they
don't have a governing body.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
But I wonder if people realize when they put complaints
in like that, if they think about the impact and
the trauma it causes healthcare professionals, because I know nurses
within the aesthetic space that patients haven't been happy with
an outcome from say piller and they've put a complaint in,
(31:25):
and the trauma and stress that has caused that nurse
has been horrendous yea, And they don't think about that.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I don't think so, because it affects their practice. It
affects what they think of themselves.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And they question themselves.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
They do when they're such safe practitioners and have been
doing it for a very long time. But yeah, as
soon as someone makes that complaint, even if you know
that the complaint isn't correct or valid or anything like that.
It still, yeah, makes you question your practice.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
It's an interesting thing.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yvon Smythe came and spoke on the podcast and she's
the Q and mus laws had lawyers, and she was saying,
in relationships where there's DV cost of control that sort
of thing, partners were ringing up and or putting in
complaints about their partners who were nurses to make their
(32:26):
life hell and then they were being investigated by Reward
an opera. And how that can happen is beyond me,
but it was. It's something that happens. And you know,
I'm sure you know. It's a stressful enough time going
(32:46):
through a divorce, break up, removing yourself from an unsafe environment,
and then on top of that to be concerned about
your profession and being able to work. And I do
think there needs to be some vetting of some of
the complaints.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
To be but come in I believe, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
So how do you look back at that birth?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Do you look back at it as it was a
remarkable time, It was a stressful moment in your life.
It's something you can sit back and have a bit
of a dare I sayd giggle about now, I'm just
got Oh my god, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Now, how does it?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
How does this sit with you now?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I honestly hold no trauma with that birth. Everyone else
around me does, I personally don't. I think it's a
pretty remarkable birth story.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yes, my cousin and I can have a little giggle
about things, but no, I hold absolutely no trauma against it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I was just so grateful to have had my cousin
there and honestly owe her my life and my baby's life.
We've all had babies. She has been present at every
single one of Beautiful my sister's births, and not in
his role as a midwife. She's just been support person
and a photographer for nearly all of them. But we've
all been like, we can't do this birth without you,
(34:10):
so you have to be there in some capacity. And yeah,
she was now a private practicing midwife and I had
a home birth with her with my second baby, Coker.
So we just did it all properly and it was
absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
And went like a dream.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It did. Yeah, you would do a home birth again.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, and you felt it was a really beautiful private special.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
It was, and it was honestly was as I said,
happened really quickly. It was a little bit chaotic. I
was hoping that the second time around it was going
to be a little bit more healing for my husband
because he the first time everything that happened, We were
not expecting obviously, any of that to go the way
that it did. And he was absolutely amazing through it.
(34:52):
But I think he probably holds the most trauma witnessing
that for the first time.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Do you think it's a protective thing of the man
and the husband that he was not just worried about you,
He was worried about his bubba.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, like it.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It was in a hole, and he can't control anything
at that moment.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, I can't control it. Didn't really know what was
going on, didn't know if that was normal or not. So, yeah,
a little bit traumatic for him. So I was hoping, yeah,
the second time around, it was going to be nice
and calm, nice and beautiful healing for him. But it
was quite chaotic. He had just got Remy to sleep,
I was in the shower. He was trying to then
blow up the birth pool as I'm making all these noises,
(35:31):
and the birth pool then wasn't We couldn't fill it up,
but the hose wasn't working. Jumped into the bath with
the midwives on the phone asking how far away are you?
They're only ten minutes away. But then Koku was born
and then the midwives turned up literally literally a minute later.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
So you birthed your second child by yourself?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes, oh my god, yes, so that one. But it
was beautiful, it was nothing went wrong, so did she
that you? I was just in the bath. He was
obviously right next to me. We had the midwives on
the phone trying to help me breathe through my contractions,
but just my body was taking over, and oh my god,
(36:14):
I was born and I'm not kidding. Literally a minute
later they burst through the door.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
See you don't just have one, You've got two great
bairth stories.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yeah, you're remarkable. I love it. Well, thank you so
much for sharing my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Your two remarkable stories of And you know what the
thing to remember is right now happening. There is a
baby being born in some crazy, remote, yeap, out of
the way place and they're coping.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Fine, absolutely so if we just let birth be birth,
and just let women's bodies do what they need to do.
That will be fine. We just need to leave them alone.
Sometimes time and a place for intervention absolutely, but majority
of the time, if we can just leave women alone
to just go into themselves, give way to their bodies
(37:12):
and their babies, that's so beautiful. Thank you so much, pleasure.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I love that chat.
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