April 13, 2023 • 50 mins
On the occasion of her 40th birthday, Jelena Dokic relives some of the most significant moments of her career and shares the lessons she's learned from her life so far.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The time for talking is over.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The match clock showing four hours and twelve minutes.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Leave it on Love SI.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Short forty insidean brick There, Ronnic, what's.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
A smash like? It's like, it's good start, It's about today.
The last says I love Lady Lena and this ten
the Absolute Pressed.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hi everyone, John Huvanas here with a very special bonus
episode of The AO Show. It was so great to
have Julna Dockicch on last episode, but we didn't have
enough time to bring you everything she shared with me,
so let's bring it to you now in full, my
interview with Yolayna Dockitch Elena. Welcome to the AO Show.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And I must say happy birthday this week.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Thank you. Yeah, it's it's the Big four to h
coming up actually tomorrow. So yeah, it's exciting. At the
same time, some people say, oh, it's scary, but I'm
actually in a way, I'm actually excited because I feel
like it's the best place I've been in pretty much,
you know, in my life at the moment where I'm at. Yeah,
(01:21):
I think they say, you know, you get a lot
of these lessons and experiences and maturity and wisdom, And yeah,
I feel like that as well. I wish I knew
twenty years ago what I know now. So yeah, I'm excited.
But also I feel like you're only as old as
you tell yourself and as old as you feel in
your head. So I feel like I'm about twenty five.
It so all good.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Is there something about ticking over to a new decade
by that, I mean to your forties, Yeah, that kind
of helps you reset mentally?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, almost, I think so I'm going out forty. It's
kind of this new decade, this new beginning in a
way as well. But yeah, I think sometimes those numbers
are scary, especially going into the new decade. I had
the same thing going into my thirties as well, But
that in saying that as well, in a way, I'm
actually really embracing it. I'm not afraid of it. And yeah,
(02:12):
I feel like the last couple of years have been
have been great, and I've learned a lot through a
lot of my experiences and ups and downs, and I
feel like, yeah, I'm where I want to be right now,
and going into this next decade with so much experience
and so many lessons that I've learned. And yeah, I
just I think as you get older, you just don't
(02:34):
sweat the small stuff. And I think that that's kind
of really the most important thing going into this next
decade for me.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's really wonderful to hear. And I mean forty years
you've probably squeezed in a whole lifetime of experiences into
let's say half a lifetime. Really, Yeah, and looking back
on your c just you know, researching your life and
your story again, not for the first time for this interview,
(03:00):
just blown away by the different chapters of your life.
And it does read like a book your life. So
I thought today it would be a great opportunity to
dig back into just parts of that story.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
We definitely won't have time to cover every little chapter
and to get your perspective on your life as a
player commentator and also looking at the game of tennis
through the lens of Jolanda Dookitch forty years in. So
how does that sound sounds good? Well, we're currently working
our way through the Australian Open Archive with the digitization
(03:34):
of full matches dating back to nineteen seventy five, and
among them is your three set upset win over Alissa
Clebarnova at Australian Open two thousand and nine, which from
today is available to be viewed in full on the
Australian Open YouTube channel. So in the spirit of that match,
I wanted to take your mind back to that time
(03:56):
of your life. What do you remember about the summer
of two thousand and nine and your mindset going into
that Australian Open.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, it was so it was such a special Australian
Open for me and such an incredible run and something
that will stay with me forever. And I struggled actually
quite a bit going into that Australian Open, and I
had a few years off and I was dealing with
a lot off the court as well, especially when it
(04:26):
comes to my mental health, and I didn't play for
a couple of years. So going into that Australian Open, yeah,
I didn't know what I was in for. I did
put in the work in the off season and I
played the wildcard playoff which I won, and I felt
like going into the tournament I was in pretty good form,
probably the best I was in for those kind of
last three or four years. And yeah, for me, actually
(04:51):
the goal was to get through the first round. That
was my goal because I hadn't won a match at
a Grand Slam for a while, and in fact I
didn't play Grand Slam tennis for about four years. Yeah,
so that was kind of my goal to win the
first round. And yeah, it was a tough one. I
remember it was on what used to be High Sense
Arena against Amia Patchek and now John Kine, yes, now
(05:12):
John Cain, and yeah, it was a long match. It's
very tricky opponent. It was a hot day, although I
liked hot conditions, but it came down to the wire.
I had to serve it out in the third set,
one six the third and it was a massive win
for me personally as well because I was going through
so much another time. Obviously people didn't know. I only
(05:33):
wrote about it five years ago in my book for
the first time, and a lot of the things that
I was dealing with off the court, so it was
such a special win for me. And to have that
win at home and on home saw was incredible. But
the run continued and beating Chak Fortatsa in the next
round and then Caroline was Niaki as well. That was
(05:54):
all on Rod Labor Arena and then the yes, both
three setters. Yeah, and against Osniaki, I was actually set down,
came back from that one. And then against Clebanova that
was a huge match. She was playing, you know, pretty
much a tennis of her life. And we knew each
other actually very well also because we practiced quite a
(06:17):
bit as well. And yeah, so we knew each other
and we yeah, we were friends off the court as well.
So it was not the easiest match to play because
we actually practiced a lot together and we knew each
other's games. Yeah, and she's a very very tricky opponent.
Hits the ball extremely flat, yeah, big, powerful, flat and deep.
(06:38):
She actually beat Anna Vanovitch in the round before that
was on at the time high since Erinna now John Kine.
And it was a massive three set match, and I
knew I was in for you know, big one, big hitting,
big serving as well, and yeah, that's what it was
straight away from the first point. I did win the
first set. I lost the second set, that was down
(07:00):
the three to one and a break in the third
and I think I was also down fifteen forty on
my own serve at three to one, but I was
able to come back and we played over three hours
as well. In that match. It was unbelievable. But the
biggest thing that stands out is obviously the crowd and
the atmosphere. It was so special. It was in the
previous matches as well, but when you get into those
(07:21):
latter rounds of Grand Slams, especially when you've got such
a tight match, which is what we had. Yeah, the
crowd was unbelievable. I'm not sure I would have won
that match if it wasn't for the crowd support. I
spread my anchor as well in the third set also,
and yeah to come back and went from they were
just you know, pushing me and cheering for me, and yeah,
they got me over the line. So even thinking about
(07:43):
it today, I get goosebumps thinking about it. It was,
I think, to me, the best atmosphere I've ever had
on a tennis court. Yeaheah.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And I encourage all our listeners to go back onto
Australian Open YouTube and watch that match in for the
Rod Laver Arena is as locally pumping and give us
a little bit of the context about you being welcomed
back into Australia as it were, as an Australian because
you've been around for a decade on the pro tour
and achieved some wonderful things, especially when were then two
(08:14):
thousand semi finalists. What was it like being received by
the Australian public.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It was amazing because I came back to play for
Australia again in two thousand and five after a few
unfortunate events, and that was huge for me. It was
a big, a massive decision, life decision, career decision that
as soon as I left because of obviously some other
(08:43):
people's decisions when I was only seventeen, to come back
and to have that amount of support and people really
embraced me was incredible and it was very very special,
and I really felt that in two thousand and nine
at the Australian Open and in match I think if
you go to the match point of the Clebbhinova match
(09:04):
and after I hit that return winner down the line,
the crowd was just, I mean, it was unbelievable. Just
you just feel like Rod labor Ina was shaking and
that's what it felt like. And I got really emotional
because of that fact because a few years earlier, you know,
I left and then came back two years later. So
it was very emotional on a lot of levels for me,
(09:28):
but I think also for everyone else and for my
fans and people that have you know, supported me, So
it was it was incredible when all of that went
through my mind. So to be welcome back and welcomed
back and embraced and have that opportunity to experience where
people are behind me in that way, it was incredible,
something that will stay with me for the rest of
(09:48):
my life.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And I remember in your press conference after that match,
you did you did allude to the significance of that
win for you, Yes, without actually giving away the full story.
Was there something in your heart that wanted to open
up the way that you have recently in more recent
years about what you were going through?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, of course there always was, but you know, it's
a much bigger conversation where we kind of fast forward
to five years ago when I released my book and
talked about everything and something like what I went through
when it comes to domestic violence and family violence and
child abuse, mental health struggles that I've had and been
(10:26):
open about. You don't take that lightly. And for me,
I had a lot of fear around talking about that
or writing a book about it, because especially I think
back then ten fifteen years ago, even more so than now,
there was a lot of still shame and stigma about
talking about some of these issues, especially in sport. So
(10:50):
I think, yeah, for me, I kind of wanted to,
but at the same time, it was such a bigger conversation.
And yeah, people that were probably with some of my
press conferences, including after my first round where I got
emotional and actually broke down, I say that I've been
through so much and that's why that wind means so much,
and that's, you know, to put it into context. Today,
(11:12):
a lot of people that know my story and have
read my book know what I was talking about and
all the things that I was going through. So yeah,
it was such a massive tournament for me, not just
from a tennis perspective, but from a personal perspective and
my life as well, because I was still battling depression
at the time, so it almost really kind of brought
(11:32):
me back to life in my whole healing journey and
everything that I was going through. Yeah, so I look
at that as a massive, Yeah, as a massive milestone,
I would say, so, just as big I always say,
releasing my book was the best day of my life
because I feel like I really feel like I was
(11:53):
finally free from a lot of the trauma and everything
that I went through and I was able to talk
about it openly, share my story. But at the same time,
I think the two thousand and nine Australian Open for
me was right up there when it comes to, you know,
changing my life and getting my life back on track,
(12:13):
and it was that big step that I needed to
be able to make those strides forward and then eventually
pretty much ten years later after that, right, my book
can talk about everything openly.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
How would you describe your relationship with tennis now and
how has it changed over the past, Well, let's say
twenty years.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Look, I love tennis. I've always loved tennis. It's a
big passion of mine and anyone that knows me knows
how much I love tennis and how much I love
talking about tennis. That's why I think I'm really lucky
and fortunate to be able to commentate and do a
lot of the TV work because I get to not
just be around tennis, but actually talk about it. So yeah,
i think I've been really fortunate when it comes to
(12:56):
tennis and having it as a real passion. But yeah,
I've enjoyed the different eras, even the eras that you
know that were there before me. I really enjoyed that.
I always loved listening about tennis, and I had some
incredible coaches like Leslie Barry and Tony Roach and a
lot of those legends to learn from. So I always
really loved listening about what tennis was like back then,
(13:17):
back then, And yeah, a lot of a lot of
things that while I was still on the tour started
to come in, like on court coaching and hawkeye and
so on. So it's just changed dramatically in a span
of those four or five decades, and it's always interesting
to go back and see how tennis has changed. And yeah,
(13:38):
it would I think it'll be interesting to play in
a lot of those different eras and see what it
was like. It'll be interesting to play today and see
what it would be like on the tour. We've got
even more things that are kind of in place that
we didn't have at the time. Uh So, yeah, that
would be that would be interesting. And we have a
lot more on court interviews, for example, today than we
used to have. Yeah, were a young we did well
(14:02):
two thousand nine. Actually, in fact, we had on court
interviews here at the Australian Open, but we didn't do
them at other Grand Slams.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, so Australian Open was a forerunner to.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
The Yeah for me certainly was. Yes, absolutely, it was
one of the first for sure to have them. So yeah,
it would be I think nice to play in different
eras and see how it was and yeah, but I
still feel like I get to be around it today
but from a different perspective, and I love that. It
is so different to see tennis today from a commentator's
(14:32):
perspective then when I was a player. It is so
so different the way that I viewed tennis. The things
that we now see from behind the scenes that we
actually never got to see as players.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Things that would have helped your game or just added
to the noise.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think both. I think helped all the stuff that
we talk about today, a lot of the information that
we get, all of the statistics and.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
All of that, like the gig Dart.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah I love that. Yeah, Yeah, I absolutely love that
and probably would have helped us more at the time,
although I like to figure things out out there on
my own, but it would have been interesting to have
that and to see a lot of those numbers that actually,
very very early on in my career, we didn't have
any of that, so when I started in ninety nine
and two thousand and so on, so it came in
(15:20):
a bit later.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So yeah, I did you conceive of tennis sort of
strategically and through data and insights even if you didn't
have them readily available on paper? Were you thinking about
strategy like that and analyzing opponent's weaknesses, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Absolutely, I really liked doing that. I felt that it
was really important to be aware of my own strengths
and weaknesses. But also depending on which player and which
opponent you're playing, and also sometimes those matchups, sometimes you
might have players that you absolutely love playing against because
their game suits you, and then sometimes it might not
(15:57):
make sense. But there are other players where it just
doesn't suit you, their game style doesn't suit you. So
I always really like to go into that, go into
the percentages to serve, whether they've got a good serve,
how their second serve is, whether I can attack the
second serve and see if I can create opportunities there,
whether my serve would be attacked, whether they like to
(16:17):
play a little bit more aggressive and stand up on
the baseline, or whether they go a little bit further back,
and whether I then have more time to do what
I want. So yeah, I always really liked getting into
those little details, and I think that's why I probably
love commentating so much, because that's what you need to
need to get into. But I also liked actually the technical,
the technical part of tennis as well. I like to
(16:38):
break down the different strokes and the different shots, and
I do it in commentary as well, but I like
to do it as a player. And yeah, I developed
some shots later on in my career that I didn't
have early on, like the back end slice, for example,
So I really liked that part of it as well.
But yeah, I think tennis is amazing with what we've
got today. We've got available and even just to see
(17:02):
the trajectory of the player shots and different things, we
didn't have that. No, no, So we actually had Hawkind
in two thousand and nine, I think it was one
of the first years we had it. Yeah, But yeah,
I retired a few years after that. So a lot
of the stuff that we do kind of have available today,
and we think it's normal. We didn't have that, so
(17:22):
it's been kind of great to see the way the
tennis has progressed in that way.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And just going back briefly to one thing you said before,
when you were talking about players who did match up
well against and players who didn't match up well, Yes,
can you give us one top ten player of each category.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I always really liked playing, for example, Elena Dementieva. I
think I only lost to Hope once, and we've come
through juniors together as well. Yeah, just a game really
suited me. We played very sim we played very very
similar styles, but just the way that yeah, where the
ball bounced, and the way that she played. She was
an amazing player, molt amazingly well, but it just suited me.
(18:02):
I could do everything that she could. We still had
very very tough matches. It was who was gonna, you know,
out run who, and who was going to maybe provide
that variety to break up a lot of the baseline
rallies that we had. Well, you know, there was always
temptation to go down the line. Do you do it
on the right shot? We all we both had a
lot of depth on our shot. But yeah, it really
(18:23):
suited my game and The one that really didn't suit
my game, did not like playing against it was Lindsay Davenport. Yes, yes,
I played her a couple of times. Yeah, had some
close matches, never beat her, but it was really really
hard for me to read her surf. That was the
one thing. She had an amazing serve and amazing placement,
(18:44):
but it was really really hard to read. And yes
the term the direction, she had good placement, but it
was hard to read her ball toss as well and
where she was going to go. She could hit any
serve from you know, the same bull toss, which was
really really tough. And yeah, it was just one of
those things where it didn't suit me. The game didn't
suit me. Where her strokes were going. I couldn't read
(19:05):
her game, whereas for example, someone like Dementieva could. I
could really read her game and I could attack her
sir for example, especially the second serve. But yeah, it
was just more for me with Lindsay. It was the
reading of the shots and trying to anticipate and I
could just never. Yeah, I just didn't suit my game.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
So some of those things you spoke about before, how
tennis has changed for the better, How has tennis changed
for the worst since your playing days ended.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I don't know, to be I don't think I can
think of one thing, to be honest, I think that
whenever you bring new things into the game like we've
had with coaching or hawkeye or different things, I think
everyone's going to have different opinions. Not everyone's going to
feel the same about it. But I don't really think
I can think of anything that's been negative. Yeah, I
(19:59):
think we have much better, better access and close access
to the players and the court and the way that
everything is filmed. I think that's been amazing. So for example,
Channel nine does an incredible job with all of the
different shots and views and everything that we get, which
brings tennis to the viewers a lot more, and even
(20:21):
behind the scenes, even behind the scenes. So yeah, to
be honest with you, I can't think of anything. Yeah,
I can think of the positives.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But you spoke there about the sort of the access
to the players, so there is in one way, and
you can probably speak to this because you endured your
fair share of scrutiny as a player in a more
traditional media setting where social media hadn't risen to the
heights and the uptake that it has today, the scrutiny
(20:47):
around players, particularly their private lives and direct access from
let's say fans I'm using that word colloquially to the players.
How do you think that has changed the lands of
being a professional athlete.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, look, it's changed because we've got a lot more
things that go on, including social media, but also different
podcasts and things actually that we're doing right now. A
lot of those things we didn't do and didn't have
twenty years ago. But it's definitely brought I think the
players closer to the fans, which I think a lot
of players like that and they can interact, and also
(21:23):
the fans closer to the players, which I think is
really important because we as athletes, especially in a sport
like tennis that is such a global sport, one of
the biggest sports in the world, it's important because we
are role models. We are role models for other people.
We inspire other people, especially their younger generation. So I
(21:45):
think that's really important, and I do think that players
actually like that. I think it's done in a really
good way where we've got, you know, a lot of
different things and a lot of different little events and
clinics during the Grand Slams and different tournaments where fans
can get closer to players, but still, you know, in
a way where it doesn't take too much time away
(22:07):
from players. So I think that that's been great, and
we do have a little bit more of an access
to players, like I said, like the on court interviews,
and you know, it takes a couple of minutes I
think at the end of matches and things like that,
but it definitely gives us a lot closer look at
the players and to see them and to see them
speak and see the emotions after the matches. So I
think that's been amazing. Like I said, we didn't have
(22:29):
that twenty years ago. Now we have it at every
single tournament, after every single match, which I think has
really changed tennis and just bringing this whole different level
of having a lot of these things going into Grand
Slams where we do interview players but in a fun way,
so you're talking about all of these different things, and
you even have it on for example, on the Australian
(22:49):
Open Instagram as well, a lot of these interviews with
players that are fun where you ask them about all
of these things that have nothing to do with tennis
and you see this whole different personality come out from players.
So I think that that's been great for tennis, and
I think actually the players really enjoy that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And the on court interviews that you speak of, that's
one area that you've really grown in the past few years.
You joined the Channel nine stable, what's that like out there?
Give us Give us an impression of what it's like
to interview a player after they've won a big match
on a big court, and you're the one who has
two to three minutes to extract something of their inner monologue.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, it's I love on court interviews, but they are
quite nerve wracking, and even someone like me that loves
actually that adrenaline and pressure and excitement and those nerves,
it can still be nerve wrecking to go out there
because you do have fifteen thousand people on almost fifteen
thousand or old Laborina and millions watching, you know, around
(23:50):
Australian around the world, so you do have that in mind.
But you're trying to just get the most out of
the player after they've won. And I try to go
from my perspective of when I was a player and
just try and keep it really light and keep it
fun and I do like to talk about other things
(24:10):
other than tennis and make it really I think fun
for everyone, not just for the player, but for the
fans and everyone watching, and just try to almost look
at it as having a chat with them instead of
an actual let's say, interview or Q and A. And yeah,
sometimes you also have to be aware that some players
are different than others. Some are we'll talk a lot more,
(24:32):
others will not, so I think you have to be
ready for that. And there are still players I haven't
interviewed and that's normal so and some that I have
now interviewed quite a few times, so that makes it
easier because I know a little bit of what they're like.
But yeah, it's an interesting one because you have to
have I think you have to be ready. I always
have extra questions ready, and also sometimes it's a little
(24:54):
bit last minute because I do like to use things
that have happened in the match, things I've seen, and
maybe the expression of certain moments of the match, especially
if it was a big one, So you try and
incorporate that into the questions as well. But also you've
got to listen to what they say, so sometimes you
know you've got to try and feed off their hands.
Maybe you can get something fun out of that. So
(25:15):
it's almost you know, you do have to be prepared,
but sometimes you're kind of winging it a little bit
and you're going with it. You have to be ready,
you have to be quick and sharp, which I've learned.
And yeah, I've tried to also listen to a lot
of other commentators not just commentate, but do those on
court interviews in the last ten or fifteen years, from
(25:35):
Jim Courier being one of the best, and Todd used
to do a lot as well. So yeah, I try
to learn from every single one that I do also,
But I think ultimately I just like to go out
there and I think just if we can have a
fun conversation and with smiles on our faces and make
it fun and if we can get a you know,
a fun commerce or joke out of it or something,
(25:58):
then that's a bonus. But I try to at the
same time make the players feel comfortable and like we
can almost have a chat out there.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, in some ways, it's a bit like being a
player in that you go into that experience with a plan, yes,
but then at the end of the day, you have
to be able to improvise, to strategize on the fly.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, absolutely, And you do have those questions ready if
you know something goes wrong, if not necessarily wrong, but
if the questions are maybe a little bit shorter, or
if they're a little bit longer, so maybe you can't
ask four or five questions, you'll ask three. So you
have to be ready and see how the interview starts.
And also, sometimes even though the players won, there's so
(26:37):
much pressure and the emotion out there that they're still
under that kind of effect of the match. So sometimes
they're still under the adrenaline and the nerves and they
get really excited when they talk. I've had that as well,
for example. So you just try to ease them into
it and give them that space to talk, especially if
if you can see it's going well, they want to have,
(27:00):
you know, that time to talk. You just let them
do it. And yeah, I think the more that you
can try and relax and have a relaxed conversation with
them the easy eighties and sometimes that's easier so than
done in the time in that time frame as well,
So yeah, you do you have to improvise. You I
tried to see also what they're going to come back with.
You try and read the face expressions a little bit
(27:22):
and see if they're relaxed or not. Maybe if they're not,
you try and make it fun and yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
So I've had some really emotional exchanges too with players
in recent years.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, I've had some great ones. I love my
interview with Serena. That was really fun. I've really felt
like we were having a chat that was had nothing
to do with cameras or being in the middle of
rod labels. Yeah, yeah, that was really fun. We talked
about a few other things other than tennis, and she
even said in the middle of that she really enjoyed it,
(27:52):
that that was great. So I really loved that one.
My emotional one was with Alise Corney after she got
to the court finals of the Istralia and last year
for the very first time in her career, after I
think sixty three attempts at Grand Slams, ye had to
actually get to the quarterfinals and she was so emotional,
and it was her birthday a couple of days before,
(28:13):
so we talked about everything. But then she kind of
stopped the whole interview at the end and gave me
like really beautiful words and that she was so happy
for me where I am now. It was so emotional
for me because I didn't see it coming. But also
for a player to do that in their biggest moment
in Grand Slam tennis was just like amazing, so selfless
(28:34):
and not a lot of people would do that. So
that was she really caught me off guard there she did,
she did, and she was amazing. And then my interview
with Novak this year, I was so nervous for that one.
I know Novak, you know, a bit off the court,
but I've never actually interviewed him.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So did you know him in Serbia at all?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, Well we talked about that this year because we
used to actually hit together and stuff, so we talked
a bit of about that actually this year because for
the first when I first saw him at this Strain Up,
and he was in two thousand and six at the
Austrain Up and we hit a few years earlier, but
I actually forgot. I didn't remember it till very young.
(29:15):
You told so this is what I asked him, and
I for the first time admitted to him. Look when
you came to me and said I'm not like Djokovic,
do you remember we hit two years ago. I told him, yeah, yeah,
I remember, but I actually didn't remember. So I said
that to him this year in my interview, which was yeah,
which I thought, I'll get it out now in front
of millions of people watching.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I mean, he was a teenager and you were probably
what twenty, he's.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
A couple of Yeah, yeah, I was. No, Actually I
was nineteen and he was fifteen or sixteen, so there's
a few years difference between us, so we were young. Yeah,
And anyway, so this year, I was very nervous for
that one, but again I went into it trying to
make it fun. And yeah, he was lovely and he
said I haven't seen you for a while and had
(30:00):
some beautiful words as well, and yeah, we just went
on from there. It was a tough one because a
lot was going on and he was injured, and so
I really tried to just really focus on you had
a great win, but also make it fun again throwing
a joke because I know that he loves to have
those fun interviews. So yeah, I just tried to make
it a really relaxed atmosphere. But I was actually very
(30:22):
very nervous my hands with my hands starts sweating. You know,
I'm nervous, and there was sweating before this one. I
thought the microphone was going to fall off, fall out
of my hand. How sweating my hands were so Yeah, yeah,
I went into it that way, and he actually he
made it easier for me because he really went along
with it. We were laughing. He wanted to have fun
with it. Yeah, so he really actually made me feel
(30:46):
more comfortable than I think I made him feel, which
was great. And yeah, we had a fun interview.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
He's a very interesting case study because he's probably one
of the most intense athletes out there. Everything has its way,
and he's very professional about the way he goes about
his sport. But he's been a long established clown on
the tour ever since his days of imitating other players.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, it's interesting because he is so professional, he is
so focused and sometimes you'll even see him on the
corridors at the Australian Open and tournaments, especially on the
day of the match. He's extremely focused. But then he'll
go into his day off or his interviews and he
just is able to switch and go to this fun side.
(31:28):
And I think that that's not easy to do to
compartmentalize like that, and he does it. He's able to
do it, and yeah, that's a fascinating thing about him
because he's actually off the court completely different to what
he is on the court, where he's so focused and
so intense, but then he is able to completely switch
that often and have this really fun side to him
(31:51):
when he's not playing.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
So do you think you have that or had that
ability to compartmentalize as a player?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yes, I definitely had. I had to because of a
lot of the that I went through in my younger
days and my past and my childhood, because I had
to compartment mentalize. And yeah, I did that as well,
and I think I do it even better today.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I think, yeah's a learn skill.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
It is, it is, and I think you learn that
through sport and you learn that through tennis, and you
have to you have to sometimes bring this intensity, especially
in matches. Sometimes the players it's hard to switch that
off when you come off the court. And in my
younger days that was probably at times me as well.
It took me a little bit longer maybe to go
(32:35):
into the other mode because but I'm also an introvert.
I'm actually quite I actually like to make fun of
myself and be goofy and stuff, but it takes a
little bit of time to get that side out of me.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yea, yeah, I don't recall seeing much of that at all.
When you were in the playing spotlight.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It was a different life, different circumstances. My kind of
life and circumstances formed me into being, you know, that
tough person, which deep down I really wasn't. I think
who I am today is really who you see today
is really who I am.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So fascinating. Yeah, yeah, you know, the whole world had
this impression of you that was built around grit, resilience,
you know, this tough exteria. We did see emotion, but
it was it was a different type of emotion. Now
the woman who sits before me here in the AO
Show studio is just beaming and completely different.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, thank you, Yeah, yeah I would. Yeah, I have
a feeling people didn't know probably the real me, not
just as a person, but as a tennis player, because
a lot was going on. I had to keep a
lot inside and you, like you said, you have this exterior,
but there's a person underneath that. There's a lot going on.
(33:49):
But yeah, I think ultimately I'm really glad that I
was able to tell my story and I was able
to do it in a book and be able to
talk about it and exactly everything that went on, and
be able to really just show people actually sometimes what
happens behind closed doors and what happens and what people
(34:10):
go through. So yeah, better late than ever. I think
it was important not just for me, It was important
for so many other people to be able to share
my story and now to be able to help others,
not just in Tennis, but outside of Tennis, to raise
awareness of the serious issues and things that I went through,
like domestic violence and mental health issues and child abuse
(34:33):
in sport as well. So it was so important on
so many levels, and I'm glad that I was able
to do it, you know, and just at.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
The right time as well. You feel like in history
you felt empowered to tell that story and now have
become an ambassador a spokesperson for these types of issues
in Tennis. And there must be so much under the
surface that we don't see historically and probably still continues today.
But because of your stilly and your ability to share
(35:03):
with others and tell of the warning signs, hopefully a
lot of good for the next. You know, your book
will outlast you. Your story will be there long after you.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, look, I hope. So I say at the end
of my book that if it saves one life, if
it changes one person's life, it's, you know, all I
could ask for, and it's done that. So I'm really
proud of that, and that's what ultimately I want my
legacy to be. I'm really proud of what I was
able to accomplish as a player, especially under the circumstances
(35:33):
to still be top five in the world with so
many things going on, and basically trying to be on
the tour for over a decade while battling depression and
a lot of the other things I went through with
family violence. I'm very proud of what I was still
able to accomplish as a player. But what I have
done and what I can now do post tennis is
(35:54):
so so important. I think at one stage I was
probably a role model for some kids out there playing
tennis to play tennis and wanting to be an athlete
or and work hard. But now also what I do
is so important on another level in actually trying to
raise awareness of these incredibly serious issues that can actually
if we do raise awareness and start conversations and speak
(36:16):
up about it, we can actually change something and we
can actually save lives. So that is so important and
that's what I want my legacy ultimately to be to
see what we can do, to see what we can change,
because I feel like for victims and for people that
are struggling, there are a couple of important things. One
of those is having a voice, which a lot of
(36:38):
people feel like they don't have it. I've been trying
to maybe provide that for people that can't do it
or don't have that voice because I have a platform.
But also it's the beginning of healing when you're able
to share, when you're able to speak up instead of
keeping it inside. And also again I think the more
that we talk about it, and the more people come
out and talk about their stories and what they've survived,
(37:01):
it can help so many other people on so many
other levels. And we can actually try and implement things
in other areas, whether it's in tennis, in sport, in
workplaces where we can actually have more available to help people.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I did have here a question what's the best decision
you've ever made? But I think you're kind of answering
it as we speak. Is there another decision in life
that you regard really highly in terms of I'm glad
I did that.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
There are a lot there are, you know, definitely coming
back to Australia. There was never any doubt I would
do that. I wanted to do it straight away pretty
much because I left home on the a year and
a half later and completely separated myself from my dad
and everything that he had to do with me. But
(37:48):
I was scared to come back a bit earlier with
everything going on. And yeah, yeah, I'm really glad that
I did that, And yeah, that's something that I never doubted,
but I'm glad I did it. And because Australia is
Australia just home. It always has been since I got
(38:08):
here when I was eleven, and I always loved representing Australia.
I was so proud to be able to call Australia
home and have the Australian flag next to my name.
I've always really been proud of that. So even now,
I'm really proud Australian. I really am, and I'm really
glad that I got the opportunity because we were refugees
twice to actually make Australia our home, because it's not
(38:34):
easy to do that and to have a country as
incredible as Australia to have as your home. So I
think I find that we've been really fortunate, and I've
been really fortunate with that. And yeah, two thousand and
Australian Open. I think two thousand and eight was really tough.
But I put in the work as much as I
possibly could under the circumstances, and two thousand and nine
(38:54):
Australian up and changed my life. And it changed my
life when it comes to actually coming back to life,
not just as an athlete, but as a person, my
relationship with the Australian fans and public, and then my
book obviously coming out in two thousand and twenty seventeen,
(39:15):
I've lost the years now. In November that was incredible
because it changed my life. That day, the book coming
out changed my life. All of the trauma and a
lot of the things I went through, I just all
that weight lifted off my shoulders.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
And it was the day of publication, like the day
it was released, that you felt.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yes, yes, absolutely. I've talked about this a few times.
In fact, when I was writing it, I didn't, you know,
put a lot of work in. It was mentally really draining.
It did feel good to get it out there on paper,
but I didn't feel just like yet. I didn't feel
that relief for anything, and I didn't go into it
for that reason. I actually specifically went into going I
(39:55):
think I can change someone's life with this. I think
people can learn from what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Interesting, Yeah, how many years earlier than twenty seventeen?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
We started writing at about fifteen months earlier?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh? Is that all?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
So we took yeah, fifteen months of hard work and
it was mentally very draining. But then the day that
it came out, it just changed my life. It just
went on point eighty. It was a whole new me.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
That was it.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I told my story the truth, and he changed everything,
changed my life, changed me as a person. That's where
me and everything that I went through really that's where
I feel like I really started to heal and show
people who I really am as a person. I was
able to show them the real me and everything else
came off, and yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Is it the feeling of marrying up the person that
you feel inside with the public's perception of you, that
sense of authenticity that was so liberating for you.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yes, and I think I was really able to for
the first time in my life be myself, be myself
as a person. I know, I was not a tennis player.
Any morcals are retired. But people could finally see the
real me. They could see the story, they could see
the story behind everything that they thought was going on,
or who I was as a person, because what you saw,
(41:14):
you know, it was a person that was very you know,
yes I was focused, Yes I was resilient, and I
was really I would go into the zone out there,
but you could see I was you know, I would
never smile, I was not happy, and you could see that.
And now you don't see pictures like that of me anymore,
you know what I mean. So this is now the
real me, and I'm glad people got to see that.
(41:36):
There's something so liberating and freeing being able to tell
your story. That's why I'm such a big advocate of
speaking up and sharing our stories because it can help
so many other people know that they're not alone, but
also that it's okay. And I'm also a big advocate
of normalizing that conversation's conversation and that we don't shame
or stigmatize people that do it because they do it
to actually get help. It's extremely painful to hold things
(42:00):
inside you for especially for a very long time, and
I felt like that as well. And yeah, for me,
finally that pain was gone and that's what it was.
So yeah, it's been amazing for people to actually now
know me and who I am. And yeah, in a way,
I wish I could have done it while I was playing,
but I wasn't ready exactly for that reason. Why, because
I felt like I would be shamed and stigmatized. So
(42:22):
that's why I now try and do it for everybody else.
And yeah, better late than ever.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, I think the story carries that.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably, yes, But that's why I feel like, yeah,
you asked me, you know what's some of those big
things and legacy and changes. And that's why I say
the book is because it's not It hasn't just changed
my life, It's changed other people's lives. And that is
so important. If I can, you know, go to the
(42:53):
end of my life and go, I've changed someone's life,
I saved someone's life. I would die a very happy
person and that's what I want my life to be.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Who or what are you most grateful for in your life?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I think that I have discovered who the important people
in my life are. I think it's important as I
got older to let go of people that don't support
you and that are not there for you. And I
think that was really really important for me with the
relationship that I had with my father and family altogether.
(43:31):
And I think it's important to accept that and to
have people in your life around you that support you,
that have your back, and that love you. And I've
really discovered that, especially in the last kind of i
think five six years, especially with having that really really
tight knit and close group of people that are around me.
(43:54):
So yeah, I think you can have those people when
it comes to family, when it comes to your friends,
when it comes to your co workers as well, and
I've found I think that really nice. I've been lucky
with that really nice balance where I've got people that
i can turn to and that's been really important. So
I think now as I get older as well, and
(44:14):
with all the experiences that I have, it's more about
not sweating the small stuff. And yeah, I kind of
really try to not sweat the stuff that I can't
control as well. I only focus on what I can
control at the end of the day, which is not much,
is it. Yeah, but you just have to think that way,
you know, the things that you can't control, you can't control.
(44:35):
So yeah, and I've discovered, Yeah, I've got a really
close group of people and friends that I can turn to,
and yeah, that's been really important.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Fantastic anyone that goes back, you know, to the darkest
days of your life that you still have that sort
of close contact with.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, there's a few people, I think my partner Tin
who were not together anymore. We were together for almost
twenty years and we'll be there for each other for
the rest of our lives. There's no doubt about that.
He went through so much with me, and yeah, I
always I can always call him and you know, we're
still in contact and have a great relationship. So that's
been amazing. That's really important. Todd Woodbridge has been incredibly
(45:19):
supportive as well. I'm known Todd now for a while
and he's actually for me, he's a mentor, but he
was instrumental for me when I entered my tennis career
in having those conversations and being supportive. And I felt
a little bit lost after I retired from tennis. And
I retired early actually at twenty nine due to injury.
So that's very young actually in today's days. Yeah. Yeah,
(45:44):
So for me, it happened suddenly and I had to
make that transition and reinvent myself almost And he was
instrumental in having that open mind and how I go
about that and really giving me that and confidence actually
to try new things and go into new things and
(46:04):
not be afraid of failing and maybe not being good
at something. So he's been amazing. It is to this day.
You know, I can call him up anytime, and yeah,
we've been We obviously work together as well at nine
and a lot of the stuff that we do. But yeah,
we're really really great friends. And yeah, that relationship has
been incredibly important to me for the last decade. And yeah,
(46:28):
Todd Todd is just one of a kind. He's an amazing.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Person and a great friend of the AO Show. Yes, absolutely, Well,
it has been a fascinating conversation with you, Helena, and
the life you've lived is just incredible, so many twists
and turns. There have been periods of great darkness and
periods of great light, and it's wonderful to learn from
you from all of those experiences, and I'm sure this podcast,
(46:55):
like your book, will be heard by many sets of
years and hopefully lives changed as a yeah, thank you.
Is there anything you'd like to finish with some parting
words that you'd like to share with the listeners?
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Oh? No, I mean I'm always excited when I can
be on the show, and hopefully we can do it
again and have a more in depth conversation. And my
second book comes out in a couple of months, so
maybe give that a plug. Yeah, Fearless, that's my next book.
It's coming out a day after the US Open, so
after we finish our coverage with the US Open it's
coming out. So I'm really excited about that. We go
more in depth into mental health and even a lot
(47:29):
of the stuff I've gone through in the last twelve
months and this year with online abuse and body image,
and while a lot of those things are important and
how we look at it as well.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Is it still biographical like does it pick up not?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
This is completely different. So I go into why Unbreakable
has changed my life? What's happened since a lot of
the new things I've learned. I go a lot further
into mental health and the things that I have gone through,
what that looks like and why it's important to talk
about that. Yeah, So I will go a lot deeper
into a lot of these things, including uh, some It
(48:04):
ultimately is a book of hope. That's what I wanted
to be there. There will be some things that I've
never talked about actually, and things that have happened since
they will still be quite, you know, gritty and raw.
That's what I wanted to be. That's who I am.
But ultimately it's a book of hope and how it
gets through certain things and why certain things that we
view in society and we're now changing by speaking up
(48:26):
and having a lot of people come forward, especially women
when it comes to abuse and mental health. So I
really dive a lot deeper into that and why that's
been important for me. So I'm really excited about that.
So maybe we can have a chat when that comes out.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, I want to think. Actually, yeah,
you've always been unbelievably supportive. We go back a few
years and when I was doing the even the commentating
(48:48):
for the AO playoff that's how I started my commentating
as well. So yeah to you and to Darren and
everyone here at Tennis Australia and Channel nine, but also
all of everyone who's listening and everyone who supports tennis
and especially Australian tennis, a lot of my fans and supporters,
and just a big thank you. There's a lot of
people that sometimes we don't meet, that follow us on
(49:09):
social media, that listen to us, that see us on
the screens, and yeah, I just want to thank all
of them for you know, supporting me and supporting tennis
and supporting us. I think that's really really important.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah, that's a beautiful tribute. Thank you and congratulations on
forty years. Jolena Duckett, Thank you so much. An incredible
person is Jolena Dockitch and great to have her part
of the Australian tennis community as she has been for
the past almost three decades. Good luck to her and
here's to another forty years and thanks for listening to
this bonus episode of The AO Show. We will resume
(49:43):
normal programming from next week as we continue to bring
you the latest in tennis news, news and interviews on
The AO Show.
The time for talking is over.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The match clock showing four hours and twelve minutes.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Leave it on Love SI.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Short forty insidean brick There, Ronnic, what's.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
A smash like? It's like, it's good start, It's about today.
The last says I love Lady Lena and this ten
the Absolute Pressed.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hi everyone, John Huvanas here with a very special bonus
episode of The AO Show. It was so great to
have Julna Dockicch on last episode, but we didn't have
enough time to bring you everything she shared with me,
so let's bring it to you now in full, my
interview with Yolayna Dockitch Elena. Welcome to the AO Show.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And I must say happy birthday this week.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Thank you. Yeah, it's it's the Big four to h
coming up actually tomorrow. So yeah, it's exciting. At the
same time, some people say, oh, it's scary, but I'm
actually in a way, I'm actually excited because I feel
like it's the best place I've been in pretty much,
you know, in my life at the moment where I'm at. Yeah,
(01:21):
I think they say, you know, you get a lot
of these lessons and experiences and maturity and wisdom, And yeah,
I feel like that as well. I wish I knew
twenty years ago what I know now. So yeah, I'm excited.
But also I feel like you're only as old as
you tell yourself and as old as you feel in
your head. So I feel like I'm about twenty five.
It so all good.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Is there something about ticking over to a new decade
by that, I mean to your forties, Yeah, that kind
of helps you reset mentally?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, almost, I think so I'm going out forty. It's
kind of this new decade, this new beginning in a
way as well. But yeah, I think sometimes those numbers
are scary, especially going into the new decade. I had
the same thing going into my thirties as well, But
that in saying that as well, in a way, I'm
actually really embracing it. I'm not afraid of it. And yeah,
(02:12):
I feel like the last couple of years have been
have been great, and I've learned a lot through a
lot of my experiences and ups and downs, and I
feel like, yeah, I'm where I want to be right now,
and going into this next decade with so much experience
and so many lessons that I've learned. And yeah, I
just I think as you get older, you just don't
(02:34):
sweat the small stuff. And I think that that's kind
of really the most important thing going into this next
decade for me.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's really wonderful to hear. And I mean forty years
you've probably squeezed in a whole lifetime of experiences into
let's say half a lifetime. Really, Yeah, and looking back
on your c just you know, researching your life and
your story again, not for the first time for this interview,
(03:00):
just blown away by the different chapters of your life.
And it does read like a book your life. So
I thought today it would be a great opportunity to
dig back into just parts of that story.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
We definitely won't have time to cover every little chapter
and to get your perspective on your life as a
player commentator and also looking at the game of tennis
through the lens of Jolanda Dookitch forty years in. So
how does that sound sounds good? Well, we're currently working
our way through the Australian Open Archive with the digitization
(03:34):
of full matches dating back to nineteen seventy five, and
among them is your three set upset win over Alissa
Clebarnova at Australian Open two thousand and nine, which from
today is available to be viewed in full on the
Australian Open YouTube channel. So in the spirit of that match,
I wanted to take your mind back to that time
(03:56):
of your life. What do you remember about the summer
of two thousand and nine and your mindset going into
that Australian Open.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, it was so it was such a special Australian
Open for me and such an incredible run and something
that will stay with me forever. And I struggled actually
quite a bit going into that Australian Open, and I
had a few years off and I was dealing with
a lot off the court as well, especially when it
(04:26):
comes to my mental health, and I didn't play for
a couple of years. So going into that Australian Open, yeah,
I didn't know what I was in for. I did
put in the work in the off season and I
played the wildcard playoff which I won, and I felt
like going into the tournament I was in pretty good form,
probably the best I was in for those kind of
last three or four years. And yeah, for me, actually
(04:51):
the goal was to get through the first round. That
was my goal because I hadn't won a match at
a Grand Slam for a while, and in fact I
didn't play Grand Slam tennis for about four years. Yeah,
so that was kind of my goal to win the
first round. And yeah, it was a tough one. I
remember it was on what used to be High Sense
Arena against Amia Patchek and now John Kine, yes, now
(05:12):
John Cain, and yeah, it was a long match. It's
very tricky opponent. It was a hot day, although I
liked hot conditions, but it came down to the wire.
I had to serve it out in the third set,
one six the third and it was a massive win
for me personally as well because I was going through
so much another time. Obviously people didn't know. I only
(05:33):
wrote about it five years ago in my book for
the first time, and a lot of the things that
I was dealing with off the court, so it was
such a special win for me. And to have that
win at home and on home saw was incredible. But
the run continued and beating Chak Fortatsa in the next
round and then Caroline was Niaki as well. That was
(05:54):
all on Rod Labor Arena and then the yes, both
three setters. Yeah, and against Osniaki, I was actually set down,
came back from that one. And then against Clebanova that
was a huge match. She was playing, you know, pretty
much a tennis of her life. And we knew each
other actually very well also because we practiced quite a
(06:17):
bit as well. And yeah, so we knew each other
and we yeah, we were friends off the court as well.
So it was not the easiest match to play because
we actually practiced a lot together and we knew each
other's games. Yeah, and she's a very very tricky opponent.
Hits the ball extremely flat, yeah, big, powerful, flat and deep.
(06:38):
She actually beat Anna Vanovitch in the round before that
was on at the time high since Erinna now John Kine.
And it was a massive three set match, and I
knew I was in for you know, big one, big hitting,
big serving as well, and yeah, that's what it was
straight away from the first point. I did win the
first set. I lost the second set, that was down
(07:00):
the three to one and a break in the third
and I think I was also down fifteen forty on
my own serve at three to one, but I was
able to come back and we played over three hours
as well. In that match. It was unbelievable. But the
biggest thing that stands out is obviously the crowd and
the atmosphere. It was so special. It was in the
previous matches as well, but when you get into those
(07:21):
latter rounds of Grand Slams, especially when you've got such
a tight match, which is what we had. Yeah, the
crowd was unbelievable. I'm not sure I would have won
that match if it wasn't for the crowd support. I
spread my anchor as well in the third set also,
and yeah to come back and went from they were
just you know, pushing me and cheering for me, and yeah,
they got me over the line. So even thinking about
(07:43):
it today, I get goosebumps thinking about it. It was,
I think, to me, the best atmosphere I've ever had
on a tennis court. Yeaheah.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And I encourage all our listeners to go back onto
Australian Open YouTube and watch that match in for the
Rod Laver Arena is as locally pumping and give us
a little bit of the context about you being welcomed
back into Australia as it were, as an Australian because
you've been around for a decade on the pro tour
and achieved some wonderful things, especially when were then two
(08:14):
thousand semi finalists. What was it like being received by
the Australian public.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It was amazing because I came back to play for
Australia again in two thousand and five after a few
unfortunate events, and that was huge for me. It was
a big, a massive decision, life decision, career decision that
as soon as I left because of obviously some other
(08:43):
people's decisions when I was only seventeen, to come back
and to have that amount of support and people really
embraced me was incredible and it was very very special,
and I really felt that in two thousand and nine
at the Australian Open and in match I think if
you go to the match point of the Clebbhinova match
(09:04):
and after I hit that return winner down the line,
the crowd was just, I mean, it was unbelievable. Just
you just feel like Rod labor Ina was shaking and
that's what it felt like. And I got really emotional
because of that fact because a few years earlier, you know,
I left and then came back two years later. So
it was very emotional on a lot of levels for me,
(09:28):
but I think also for everyone else and for my
fans and people that have you know, supported me, So
it was it was incredible when all of that went
through my mind. So to be welcome back and welcomed
back and embraced and have that opportunity to experience where
people are behind me in that way, it was incredible,
something that will stay with me for the rest of
(09:48):
my life.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And I remember in your press conference after that match,
you did you did allude to the significance of that
win for you, Yes, without actually giving away the full story.
Was there something in your heart that wanted to open
up the way that you have recently in more recent
years about what you were going through?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, of course there always was, but you know, it's
a much bigger conversation where we kind of fast forward
to five years ago when I released my book and
talked about everything and something like what I went through
when it comes to domestic violence and family violence and
child abuse, mental health struggles that I've had and been
(10:26):
open about. You don't take that lightly. And for me,
I had a lot of fear around talking about that
or writing a book about it, because especially I think
back then ten fifteen years ago, even more so than now,
there was a lot of still shame and stigma about
talking about some of these issues, especially in sport. So
(10:50):
I think, yeah, for me, I kind of wanted to,
but at the same time, it was such a bigger conversation.
And yeah, people that were probably with some of my
press conferences, including after my first round where I got
emotional and actually broke down, I say that I've been
through so much and that's why that wind means so much,
and that's, you know, to put it into context. Today,
(11:12):
a lot of people that know my story and have
read my book know what I was talking about and
all the things that I was going through. So yeah,
it was such a massive tournament for me, not just
from a tennis perspective, but from a personal perspective and
my life as well, because I was still battling depression
at the time, so it almost really kind of brought
(11:32):
me back to life in my whole healing journey and
everything that I was going through. Yeah, so I look
at that as a massive, Yeah, as a massive milestone,
I would say, so, just as big I always say,
releasing my book was the best day of my life
because I feel like I really feel like I was
(11:53):
finally free from a lot of the trauma and everything
that I went through and I was able to talk
about it openly, share my story. But at the same time,
I think the two thousand and nine Australian Open for
me was right up there when it comes to, you know,
changing my life and getting my life back on track,
(12:13):
and it was that big step that I needed to
be able to make those strides forward and then eventually
pretty much ten years later after that, right, my book
can talk about everything openly.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
How would you describe your relationship with tennis now and
how has it changed over the past, Well, let's say
twenty years.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Look, I love tennis. I've always loved tennis. It's a
big passion of mine and anyone that knows me knows
how much I love tennis and how much I love
talking about tennis. That's why I think I'm really lucky
and fortunate to be able to commentate and do a
lot of the TV work because I get to not
just be around tennis, but actually talk about it. So yeah,
i think I've been really fortunate when it comes to
(12:56):
tennis and having it as a real passion. But yeah,
I've enjoyed the different eras, even the eras that you
know that were there before me. I really enjoyed that.
I always loved listening about tennis, and I had some
incredible coaches like Leslie Barry and Tony Roach and a
lot of those legends to learn from. So I always
really loved listening about what tennis was like back then,
(13:17):
back then, And yeah, a lot of a lot of
things that while I was still on the tour started
to come in, like on court coaching and hawkeye and
so on. So it's just changed dramatically in a span
of those four or five decades, and it's always interesting
to go back and see how tennis has changed. And yeah,
(13:38):
it would I think it'll be interesting to play in
a lot of those different eras and see what it
was like. It'll be interesting to play today and see
what it would be like on the tour. We've got
even more things that are kind of in place that
we didn't have at the time. Uh So, yeah, that
would be that would be interesting. And we have a
lot more on court interviews, for example, today than we
used to have. Yeah, were a young we did well
(14:02):
two thousand nine. Actually, in fact, we had on court
interviews here at the Australian Open, but we didn't do
them at other Grand Slams.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, so Australian Open was a forerunner to.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
The Yeah for me certainly was. Yes, absolutely, it was
one of the first for sure to have them. So yeah,
it would be I think nice to play in different
eras and see how it was and yeah, but I
still feel like I get to be around it today
but from a different perspective, and I love that. It
is so different to see tennis today from a commentator's
(14:32):
perspective then when I was a player. It is so
so different the way that I viewed tennis. The things
that we now see from behind the scenes that we
actually never got to see as players.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Things that would have helped your game or just added
to the noise.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think both. I think helped all the stuff that
we talk about today, a lot of the information that
we get, all of the statistics and.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
All of that, like the gig Dart.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah I love that. Yeah, Yeah, I absolutely love that
and probably would have helped us more at the time,
although I like to figure things out out there on
my own, but it would have been interesting to have
that and to see a lot of those numbers that actually,
very very early on in my career, we didn't have
any of that, so when I started in ninety nine
and two thousand and so on, so it came in
(15:20):
a bit later.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So yeah, I did you conceive of tennis sort of
strategically and through data and insights even if you didn't
have them readily available on paper? Were you thinking about
strategy like that and analyzing opponent's weaknesses, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Absolutely, I really liked doing that. I felt that it
was really important to be aware of my own strengths
and weaknesses. But also depending on which player and which
opponent you're playing, and also sometimes those matchups, sometimes you
might have players that you absolutely love playing against because
their game suits you, and then sometimes it might not
(15:57):
make sense. But there are other players where it just
doesn't suit you, their game style doesn't suit you. So
I always really like to go into that, go into
the percentages to serve, whether they've got a good serve,
how their second serve is, whether I can attack the
second serve and see if I can create opportunities there,
whether my serve would be attacked, whether they like to
(16:17):
play a little bit more aggressive and stand up on
the baseline, or whether they go a little bit further back,
and whether I then have more time to do what
I want. So yeah, I always really liked getting into
those little details, and I think that's why I probably
love commentating so much, because that's what you need to
need to get into. But I also liked actually the technical,
the technical part of tennis as well. I like to
(16:38):
break down the different strokes and the different shots, and
I do it in commentary as well, but I like
to do it as a player. And yeah, I developed
some shots later on in my career that I didn't
have early on, like the back end slice, for example,
So I really liked that part of it as well.
But yeah, I think tennis is amazing with what we've
got today. We've got available and even just to see
(17:02):
the trajectory of the player shots and different things, we
didn't have that. No, no, So we actually had Hawkind
in two thousand and nine, I think it was one
of the first years we had it. Yeah, But yeah,
I retired a few years after that. So a lot
of the stuff that we do kind of have available today,
and we think it's normal. We didn't have that, so
(17:22):
it's been kind of great to see the way the
tennis has progressed in that way.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And just going back briefly to one thing you said before,
when you were talking about players who did match up
well against and players who didn't match up well, Yes,
can you give us one top ten player of each category.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I always really liked playing, for example, Elena Dementieva. I
think I only lost to Hope once, and we've come
through juniors together as well. Yeah, just a game really
suited me. We played very sim we played very very
similar styles, but just the way that yeah, where the
ball bounced, and the way that she played. She was
an amazing player, molt amazingly well, but it just suited me.
(18:02):
I could do everything that she could. We still had
very very tough matches. It was who was gonna, you know,
out run who, and who was going to maybe provide
that variety to break up a lot of the baseline
rallies that we had. Well, you know, there was always
temptation to go down the line. Do you do it
on the right shot? We all we both had a
lot of depth on our shot. But yeah, it really
(18:23):
suited my game and The one that really didn't suit
my game, did not like playing against it was Lindsay Davenport. Yes, yes,
I played her a couple of times. Yeah, had some
close matches, never beat her, but it was really really
hard for me to read her surf. That was the
one thing. She had an amazing serve and amazing placement,
(18:44):
but it was really really hard to read. And yes
the term the direction, she had good placement, but it
was hard to read her ball toss as well and
where she was going to go. She could hit any
serve from you know, the same bull toss, which was
really really tough. And yeah, it was just one of
those things where it didn't suit me. The game didn't
suit me. Where her strokes were going. I couldn't read
(19:05):
her game, whereas for example, someone like Dementieva could. I
could really read her game and I could attack her
sir for example, especially the second serve. But yeah, it
was just more for me with Lindsay. It was the
reading of the shots and trying to anticipate and I
could just never. Yeah, I just didn't suit my game.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
So some of those things you spoke about before, how
tennis has changed for the better, How has tennis changed
for the worst since your playing days ended.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I don't know, to be I don't think I can
think of one thing, to be honest, I think that
whenever you bring new things into the game like we've
had with coaching or hawkeye or different things, I think
everyone's going to have different opinions. Not everyone's going to
feel the same about it. But I don't really think
I can think of anything that's been negative. Yeah, I
(19:59):
think we have much better, better access and close access
to the players and the court and the way that
everything is filmed. I think that's been amazing. So for example,
Channel nine does an incredible job with all of the
different shots and views and everything that we get, which
brings tennis to the viewers a lot more, and even
(20:21):
behind the scenes, even behind the scenes. So yeah, to
be honest with you, I can't think of anything. Yeah,
I can think of the positives.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But you spoke there about the sort of the access
to the players, so there is in one way, and
you can probably speak to this because you endured your
fair share of scrutiny as a player in a more
traditional media setting where social media hadn't risen to the
heights and the uptake that it has today, the scrutiny
(20:47):
around players, particularly their private lives and direct access from
let's say fans I'm using that word colloquially to the players.
How do you think that has changed the lands of
being a professional athlete.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, look, it's changed because we've got a lot more
things that go on, including social media, but also different
podcasts and things actually that we're doing right now. A
lot of those things we didn't do and didn't have
twenty years ago. But it's definitely brought I think the
players closer to the fans, which I think a lot
of players like that and they can interact, and also
(21:23):
the fans closer to the players, which I think is
really important because we as athletes, especially in a sport
like tennis that is such a global sport, one of
the biggest sports in the world, it's important because we
are role models. We are role models for other people.
We inspire other people, especially their younger generation. So I
(21:45):
think that's really important, and I do think that players
actually like that. I think it's done in a really
good way where we've got, you know, a lot of
different things and a lot of different little events and
clinics during the Grand Slams and different tournaments where fans
can get closer to players, but still, you know, in
a way where it doesn't take too much time away
(22:07):
from players. So I think that that's been great, and
we do have a little bit more of an access
to players, like I said, like the on court interviews,
and you know, it takes a couple of minutes I
think at the end of matches and things like that,
but it definitely gives us a lot closer look at
the players and to see them and to see them
speak and see the emotions after the matches. So I
think that's been amazing. Like I said, we didn't have
(22:29):
that twenty years ago. Now we have it at every
single tournament, after every single match, which I think has
really changed tennis and just bringing this whole different level
of having a lot of these things going into Grand
Slams where we do interview players but in a fun way,
so you're talking about all of these different things, and
you even have it on for example, on the Australian
(22:49):
Open Instagram as well, a lot of these interviews with
players that are fun where you ask them about all
of these things that have nothing to do with tennis
and you see this whole different personality come out from players.
So I think that that's been great for tennis, and
I think actually the players really enjoy that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And the on court interviews that you speak of, that's
one area that you've really grown in the past few years.
You joined the Channel nine stable, what's that like out there?
Give us Give us an impression of what it's like
to interview a player after they've won a big match
on a big court, and you're the one who has
two to three minutes to extract something of their inner monologue.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, it's I love on court interviews, but they are
quite nerve wracking, and even someone like me that loves
actually that adrenaline and pressure and excitement and those nerves,
it can still be nerve wrecking to go out there
because you do have fifteen thousand people on almost fifteen
thousand or old Laborina and millions watching, you know, around
(23:50):
Australian around the world, so you do have that in mind.
But you're trying to just get the most out of
the player after they've won. And I try to go
from my perspective of when I was a player and
just try and keep it really light and keep it
fun and I do like to talk about other things
(24:10):
other than tennis and make it really I think fun
for everyone, not just for the player, but for the
fans and everyone watching, and just try to almost look
at it as having a chat with them instead of
an actual let's say, interview or Q and A. And yeah,
sometimes you also have to be aware that some players
are different than others. Some are we'll talk a lot more,
(24:32):
others will not, so I think you have to be
ready for that. And there are still players I haven't
interviewed and that's normal so and some that I have
now interviewed quite a few times, so that makes it
easier because I know a little bit of what they're like.
But yeah, it's an interesting one because you have to
have I think you have to be ready. I always
have extra questions ready, and also sometimes it's a little
(24:54):
bit last minute because I do like to use things
that have happened in the match, things I've seen, and
maybe the expression of certain moments of the match, especially
if it was a big one, So you try and
incorporate that into the questions as well. But also you've
got to listen to what they say, so sometimes you
know you've got to try and feed off their hands.
Maybe you can get something fun out of that. So
(25:15):
it's almost you know, you do have to be prepared,
but sometimes you're kind of winging it a little bit
and you're going with it. You have to be ready,
you have to be quick and sharp, which I've learned.
And yeah, I've tried to also listen to a lot
of other commentators not just commentate, but do those on
court interviews in the last ten or fifteen years, from
(25:35):
Jim Courier being one of the best, and Todd used
to do a lot as well. So yeah, I try
to learn from every single one that I do also,
But I think ultimately I just like to go out
there and I think just if we can have a
fun conversation and with smiles on our faces and make
it fun and if we can get a you know,
a fun commerce or joke out of it or something,
(25:58):
then that's a bonus. But I try to at the
same time make the players feel comfortable and like we
can almost have a chat out there.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, in some ways, it's a bit like being a
player in that you go into that experience with a plan, yes,
but then at the end of the day, you have
to be able to improvise, to strategize on the fly.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, absolutely, And you do have those questions ready if
you know something goes wrong, if not necessarily wrong, but
if the questions are maybe a little bit shorter, or
if they're a little bit longer, so maybe you can't
ask four or five questions, you'll ask three. So you
have to be ready and see how the interview starts.
And also, sometimes even though the players won, there's so
(26:37):
much pressure and the emotion out there that they're still
under that kind of effect of the match. So sometimes
they're still under the adrenaline and the nerves and they
get really excited when they talk. I've had that as well,
for example. So you just try to ease them into
it and give them that space to talk, especially if
if you can see it's going well, they want to have,
(27:00):
you know, that time to talk. You just let them
do it. And yeah, I think the more that you
can try and relax and have a relaxed conversation with
them the easy eighties and sometimes that's easier so than
done in the time in that time frame as well,
So yeah, you do you have to improvise. You I
tried to see also what they're going to come back with.
You try and read the face expressions a little bit
(27:22):
and see if they're relaxed or not. Maybe if they're not,
you try and make it fun and yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
So I've had some really emotional exchanges too with players
in recent years.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, I've had some great ones. I love my
interview with Serena. That was really fun. I've really felt
like we were having a chat that was had nothing
to do with cameras or being in the middle of
rod labels. Yeah, yeah, that was really fun. We talked
about a few other things other than tennis, and she
even said in the middle of that she really enjoyed it,
(27:52):
that that was great. So I really loved that one.
My emotional one was with Alise Corney after she got
to the court finals of the Istralia and last year
for the very first time in her career, after I
think sixty three attempts at Grand Slams, ye had to
actually get to the quarterfinals and she was so emotional,
and it was her birthday a couple of days before,
(28:13):
so we talked about everything. But then she kind of
stopped the whole interview at the end and gave me
like really beautiful words and that she was so happy
for me where I am now. It was so emotional
for me because I didn't see it coming. But also
for a player to do that in their biggest moment
in Grand Slam tennis was just like amazing, so selfless
(28:34):
and not a lot of people would do that. So
that was she really caught me off guard there she did,
she did, and she was amazing. And then my interview
with Novak this year, I was so nervous for that one.
I know Novak, you know, a bit off the court,
but I've never actually interviewed him.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So did you know him in Serbia at all?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, Well we talked about that this year because we
used to actually hit together and stuff, so we talked
a bit of about that actually this year because for
the first when I first saw him at this Strain Up,
and he was in two thousand and six at the
Austrain Up and we hit a few years earlier, but
I actually forgot. I didn't remember it till very young.
(29:15):
You told so this is what I asked him, and
I for the first time admitted to him. Look when
you came to me and said I'm not like Djokovic,
do you remember we hit two years ago. I told him, yeah, yeah,
I remember, but I actually didn't remember. So I said
that to him this year in my interview, which was yeah,
which I thought, I'll get it out now in front
of millions of people watching.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I mean, he was a teenager and you were probably
what twenty, he's.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
A couple of Yeah, yeah, I was. No, Actually I
was nineteen and he was fifteen or sixteen, so there's
a few years difference between us, so we were young. Yeah,
And anyway, so this year, I was very nervous for
that one, but again I went into it trying to
make it fun. And yeah, he was lovely and he
said I haven't seen you for a while and had
(30:00):
some beautiful words as well, and yeah, we just went
on from there. It was a tough one because a
lot was going on and he was injured, and so
I really tried to just really focus on you had
a great win, but also make it fun again throwing
a joke because I know that he loves to have
those fun interviews. So yeah, I just tried to make
it a really relaxed atmosphere. But I was actually very
(30:22):
very nervous my hands with my hands starts sweating. You know,
I'm nervous, and there was sweating before this one. I
thought the microphone was going to fall off, fall out
of my hand. How sweating my hands were so Yeah, yeah,
I went into it that way, and he actually he
made it easier for me because he really went along
with it. We were laughing. He wanted to have fun
with it. Yeah, so he really actually made me feel
(30:46):
more comfortable than I think I made him feel, which
was great. And yeah, we had a fun interview.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
He's a very interesting case study because he's probably one
of the most intense athletes out there. Everything has its way,
and he's very professional about the way he goes about
his sport. But he's been a long established clown on
the tour ever since his days of imitating other players.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, it's interesting because he is so professional, he is
so focused and sometimes you'll even see him on the
corridors at the Australian Open and tournaments, especially on the
day of the match. He's extremely focused. But then he'll
go into his day off or his interviews and he
just is able to switch and go to this fun side.
(31:28):
And I think that that's not easy to do to
compartmentalize like that, and he does it. He's able to
do it, and yeah, that's a fascinating thing about him
because he's actually off the court completely different to what
he is on the court, where he's so focused and
so intense, but then he is able to completely switch
that often and have this really fun side to him
(31:51):
when he's not playing.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
So do you think you have that or had that
ability to compartmentalize as a player?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yes, I definitely had. I had to because of a
lot of the that I went through in my younger
days and my past and my childhood, because I had
to compartment mentalize. And yeah, I did that as well,
and I think I do it even better today.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I think, yeah's a learn skill.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
It is, it is, and I think you learn that
through sport and you learn that through tennis, and you
have to you have to sometimes bring this intensity, especially
in matches. Sometimes the players it's hard to switch that
off when you come off the court. And in my
younger days that was probably at times me as well.
It took me a little bit longer maybe to go
(32:35):
into the other mode because but I'm also an introvert.
I'm actually quite I actually like to make fun of
myself and be goofy and stuff, but it takes a
little bit of time to get that side out of me.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yea, yeah, I don't recall seeing much of that at all.
When you were in the playing spotlight.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It was a different life, different circumstances. My kind of
life and circumstances formed me into being, you know, that
tough person, which deep down I really wasn't. I think
who I am today is really who you see today
is really who I am.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So fascinating. Yeah, yeah, you know, the whole world had
this impression of you that was built around grit, resilience,
you know, this tough exteria. We did see emotion, but
it was it was a different type of emotion. Now
the woman who sits before me here in the AO
Show studio is just beaming and completely different.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, thank you, Yeah, yeah I would. Yeah, I have
a feeling people didn't know probably the real me, not
just as a person, but as a tennis player, because
a lot was going on. I had to keep a
lot inside and you, like you said, you have this exterior,
but there's a person underneath that. There's a lot going on.
(33:49):
But yeah, I think ultimately I'm really glad that I
was able to tell my story and I was able
to do it in a book and be able to
talk about it and exactly everything that went on, and
be able to really just show people actually sometimes what
happens behind closed doors and what happens and what people
(34:10):
go through. So yeah, better late than ever. I think
it was important not just for me, It was important
for so many other people to be able to share
my story and now to be able to help others,
not just in Tennis, but outside of Tennis, to raise
awareness of the serious issues and things that I went through,
like domestic violence and mental health issues and child abuse
(34:33):
in sport as well. So it was so important on
so many levels, and I'm glad that I was able
to do it, you know, and just at.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
The right time as well. You feel like in history
you felt empowered to tell that story and now have
become an ambassador a spokesperson for these types of issues
in Tennis. And there must be so much under the
surface that we don't see historically and probably still continues today.
But because of your stilly and your ability to share
(35:03):
with others and tell of the warning signs, hopefully a
lot of good for the next. You know, your book
will outlast you. Your story will be there long after you.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, look, I hope. So I say at the end
of my book that if it saves one life, if
it changes one person's life, it's, you know, all I
could ask for, and it's done that. So I'm really
proud of that, and that's what ultimately I want my
legacy to be. I'm really proud of what I was
able to accomplish as a player, especially under the circumstances
(35:33):
to still be top five in the world with so
many things going on, and basically trying to be on
the tour for over a decade while battling depression and
a lot of the other things I went through with
family violence. I'm very proud of what I was still
able to accomplish as a player. But what I have
done and what I can now do post tennis is
(35:54):
so so important. I think at one stage I was
probably a role model for some kids out there playing
tennis to play tennis and wanting to be an athlete
or and work hard. But now also what I do
is so important on another level in actually trying to
raise awareness of these incredibly serious issues that can actually
if we do raise awareness and start conversations and speak
(36:16):
up about it, we can actually change something and we
can actually save lives. So that is so important and
that's what I want my legacy ultimately to be to
see what we can do, to see what we can change,
because I feel like for victims and for people that
are struggling, there are a couple of important things. One
of those is having a voice, which a lot of
(36:38):
people feel like they don't have it. I've been trying
to maybe provide that for people that can't do it
or don't have that voice because I have a platform.
But also it's the beginning of healing when you're able
to share, when you're able to speak up instead of
keeping it inside. And also again I think the more
that we talk about it, and the more people come
out and talk about their stories and what they've survived,
(37:01):
it can help so many other people on so many
other levels. And we can actually try and implement things
in other areas, whether it's in tennis, in sport, in
workplaces where we can actually have more available to help people.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I did have here a question what's the best decision
you've ever made? But I think you're kind of answering
it as we speak. Is there another decision in life
that you regard really highly in terms of I'm glad
I did that.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
There are a lot there are, you know, definitely coming
back to Australia. There was never any doubt I would
do that. I wanted to do it straight away pretty
much because I left home on the a year and
a half later and completely separated myself from my dad
and everything that he had to do with me. But
(37:48):
I was scared to come back a bit earlier with
everything going on. And yeah, yeah, I'm really glad that
I did that, And yeah, that's something that I never doubted,
but I'm glad I did it. And because Australia is
Australia just home. It always has been since I got
(38:08):
here when I was eleven, and I always loved representing Australia.
I was so proud to be able to call Australia
home and have the Australian flag next to my name.
I've always really been proud of that. So even now,
I'm really proud Australian. I really am, and I'm really
glad that I got the opportunity because we were refugees
twice to actually make Australia our home, because it's not
(38:34):
easy to do that and to have a country as
incredible as Australia to have as your home. So I
think I find that we've been really fortunate, and I've
been really fortunate with that. And yeah, two thousand and
Australian Open. I think two thousand and eight was really tough.
But I put in the work as much as I
possibly could under the circumstances, and two thousand and nine
(38:54):
Australian up and changed my life. And it changed my
life when it comes to actually coming back to life,
not just as an athlete, but as a person, my
relationship with the Australian fans and public, and then my
book obviously coming out in two thousand and twenty seventeen,
(39:15):
I've lost the years now. In November that was incredible
because it changed my life. That day, the book coming
out changed my life. All of the trauma and a
lot of the things I went through, I just all
that weight lifted off my shoulders.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
And it was the day of publication, like the day
it was released, that you felt.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yes, yes, absolutely. I've talked about this a few times.
In fact, when I was writing it, I didn't, you know,
put a lot of work in. It was mentally really draining.
It did feel good to get it out there on paper,
but I didn't feel just like yet. I didn't feel
that relief for anything, and I didn't go into it
for that reason. I actually specifically went into going I
(39:55):
think I can change someone's life with this. I think
people can learn from what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Interesting, Yeah, how many years earlier than twenty seventeen?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
We started writing at about fifteen months earlier?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh? Is that all?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
So we took yeah, fifteen months of hard work and
it was mentally very draining. But then the day that
it came out, it just changed my life. It just
went on point eighty. It was a whole new me.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
That was it.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I told my story the truth, and he changed everything,
changed my life, changed me as a person. That's where
me and everything that I went through really that's where
I feel like I really started to heal and show
people who I really am as a person. I was
able to show them the real me and everything else
came off, and yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Is it the feeling of marrying up the person that
you feel inside with the public's perception of you, that
sense of authenticity that was so liberating for you.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yes, and I think I was really able to for
the first time in my life be myself, be myself
as a person. I know, I was not a tennis player.
Any morcals are retired. But people could finally see the
real me. They could see the story, they could see
the story behind everything that they thought was going on,
or who I was as a person, because what you saw,
(41:14):
you know, it was a person that was very you know,
yes I was focused, Yes I was resilient, and I
was really I would go into the zone out there,
but you could see I was you know, I would
never smile, I was not happy, and you could see that.
And now you don't see pictures like that of me anymore,
you know what I mean. So this is now the
real me, and I'm glad people got to see that.
(41:36):
There's something so liberating and freeing being able to tell
your story. That's why I'm such a big advocate of
speaking up and sharing our stories because it can help
so many other people know that they're not alone, but
also that it's okay. And I'm also a big advocate
of normalizing that conversation's conversation and that we don't shame
or stigmatize people that do it because they do it
to actually get help. It's extremely painful to hold things
(42:00):
inside you for especially for a very long time, and
I felt like that as well. And yeah, for me,
finally that pain was gone and that's what it was.
So yeah, it's been amazing for people to actually now
know me and who I am. And yeah, in a way,
I wish I could have done it while I was playing,
but I wasn't ready exactly for that reason. Why, because
I felt like I would be shamed and stigmatized. So
(42:22):
that's why I now try and do it for everybody else.
And yeah, better late than ever.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, I think the story carries that.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably, yes, But that's why I feel like, yeah,
you asked me, you know what's some of those big
things and legacy and changes. And that's why I say
the book is because it's not It hasn't just changed
my life, It's changed other people's lives. And that is
so important. If I can, you know, go to the
(42:53):
end of my life and go, I've changed someone's life,
I saved someone's life. I would die a very happy
person and that's what I want my life to be.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Who or what are you most grateful for in your life?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I think that I have discovered who the important people
in my life are. I think it's important as I
got older to let go of people that don't support
you and that are not there for you. And I
think that was really really important for me with the
relationship that I had with my father and family altogether.
(43:31):
And I think it's important to accept that and to
have people in your life around you that support you,
that have your back, and that love you. And I've
really discovered that, especially in the last kind of i
think five six years, especially with having that really really
tight knit and close group of people that are around me.
(43:54):
So yeah, I think you can have those people when
it comes to family, when it comes to your friends,
when it comes to your co workers as well, and
I've found I think that really nice. I've been lucky
with that really nice balance where I've got people that
i can turn to and that's been really important. So
I think now as I get older as well, and
(44:14):
with all the experiences that I have, it's more about
not sweating the small stuff. And yeah, I kind of
really try to not sweat the stuff that I can't
control as well. I only focus on what I can
control at the end of the day, which is not much,
is it. Yeah, but you just have to think that way,
you know, the things that you can't control, you can't control.
(44:35):
So yeah, and I've discovered, Yeah, I've got a really
close group of people and friends that I can turn to,
and yeah, that's been really important.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Fantastic anyone that goes back, you know, to the darkest
days of your life that you still have that sort
of close contact with.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, there's a few people, I think my partner Tin
who were not together anymore. We were together for almost
twenty years and we'll be there for each other for
the rest of our lives. There's no doubt about that.
He went through so much with me, and yeah, I
always I can always call him and you know, we're
still in contact and have a great relationship. So that's
been amazing. That's really important. Todd Woodbridge has been incredibly
(45:19):
supportive as well. I'm known Todd now for a while
and he's actually for me, he's a mentor, but he
was instrumental for me when I entered my tennis career
in having those conversations and being supportive. And I felt
a little bit lost after I retired from tennis. And
I retired early actually at twenty nine due to injury.
So that's very young actually in today's days. Yeah. Yeah,
(45:44):
So for me, it happened suddenly and I had to
make that transition and reinvent myself almost And he was
instrumental in having that open mind and how I go
about that and really giving me that and confidence actually
to try new things and go into new things and
(46:04):
not be afraid of failing and maybe not being good
at something. So he's been amazing. It is to this day.
You know, I can call him up anytime, and yeah,
we've been We obviously work together as well at nine
and a lot of the stuff that we do. But yeah,
we're really really great friends. And yeah, that relationship has
been incredibly important to me for the last decade. And yeah,
(46:28):
Todd Todd is just one of a kind. He's an amazing.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Person and a great friend of the AO Show. Yes, absolutely, Well,
it has been a fascinating conversation with you, Helena, and
the life you've lived is just incredible, so many twists
and turns. There have been periods of great darkness and
periods of great light, and it's wonderful to learn from
you from all of those experiences, and I'm sure this podcast,
(46:55):
like your book, will be heard by many sets of
years and hopefully lives changed as a yeah, thank you.
Is there anything you'd like to finish with some parting
words that you'd like to share with the listeners?
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Oh? No, I mean I'm always excited when I can
be on the show, and hopefully we can do it
again and have a more in depth conversation. And my
second book comes out in a couple of months, so
maybe give that a plug. Yeah, Fearless, that's my next book.
It's coming out a day after the US Open, so
after we finish our coverage with the US Open it's
coming out. So I'm really excited about that. We go
more in depth into mental health and even a lot
(47:29):
of the stuff I've gone through in the last twelve
months and this year with online abuse and body image,
and while a lot of those things are important and
how we look at it as well.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Is it still biographical like does it pick up not?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
This is completely different. So I go into why Unbreakable
has changed my life? What's happened since a lot of
the new things I've learned. I go a lot further
into mental health and the things that I have gone through,
what that looks like and why it's important to talk
about that. Yeah, So I will go a lot deeper
into a lot of these things, including uh, some It
(48:04):
ultimately is a book of hope. That's what I wanted
to be there. There will be some things that I've
never talked about actually, and things that have happened since
they will still be quite, you know, gritty and raw.
That's what I wanted to be. That's who I am.
But ultimately it's a book of hope and how it
gets through certain things and why certain things that we
view in society and we're now changing by speaking up
(48:26):
and having a lot of people come forward, especially women
when it comes to abuse and mental health. So I
really dive a lot deeper into that and why that's
been important for me. So I'm really excited about that.
So maybe we can have a chat when that comes out.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, I want to think. Actually, yeah,
you've always been unbelievably supportive. We go back a few
years and when I was doing the even the commentating
(48:48):
for the AO playoff that's how I started my commentating
as well. So yeah to you and to Darren and
everyone here at Tennis Australia and Channel nine, but also
all of everyone who's listening and everyone who supports tennis
and especially Australian tennis, a lot of my fans and supporters,
and just a big thank you. There's a lot of
people that sometimes we don't meet, that follow us on
(49:09):
social media, that listen to us, that see us on
the screens, and yeah, I just want to thank all
of them for you know, supporting me and supporting tennis
and supporting us. I think that's really really important.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah, that's a beautiful tribute. Thank you and congratulations on
forty years. Jolena Duckett, Thank you so much. An incredible
person is Jolena Dockitch and great to have her part
of the Australian tennis community as she has been for
the past almost three decades. Good luck to her and
here's to another forty years and thanks for listening to
this bonus episode of The AO Show. We will resume
(49:43):
normal programming from next week as we continue to bring
you the latest in tennis news, news and interviews on
The AO Show.
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