December 16, 2025 • 16 mins
Bondi Beach has long stood as a symbol of Australia’s easygoing spirit—a multicultural meeting place of sunlight, surf and community. But the recent terror attack during a Hanukkah celebration shattered that image, leaving a nation in mourning and reflection. In this episode, host Rebecca Jones is joined by Bloomberg Opinion columnist David Fickling to explore why this attack cuts so deeply, not just for those directly affected, but for the Australian identity itself.
They unpack the cultural significance of Bondi, the global ripple effects of local violence, and how public figures and everyday Australians are responding.
You can read David’s column on the terror here: Bondi, and Australia, Get Swept Into a Violent World - Bloomberg
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Rebecca Jones and this is the Bloomberg Australia podcast.
This isn't the episode we plan to end twenty twenty
five with, and it's certainly not one we ever imagined.
Having to make sixteen deceased persons is obviously a great
tragedy for this state.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Our thoughts, prayers and love.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Go out to all of the families that have ceased.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
My government will continue to stand with Jewish Australians and
continue to stand to stamp out anti Semitism in all
of its forms.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Bondai Beach is one of those rare places that belongs
equally to locals as it does to the world. For Sydneysiders,
it's a place of ritual from swims before work, hanging
at the playground and on the grassy foreshore with mates,
down in cocktails at icebergs, or for my kids, star
spotting lifeguards from the TV show Bondai Rescue come a
(01:00):
bit of a shorthand for Australia itself. Sunlit, multicultural resilient,
a strip of sand that carries both the easy joy
of life by the beach and a deeper meaning that
shows us how special shared public spaces can be. On
this week's show, we're examining why the terror attack at
(01:20):
Bondai on December fourteenth, Australia's worst ever, represents much more
than a single violent event. We'll examine why the events
of that evening feel like a cultural flashpoint and explore
what it says about Australia's relationship with the wider world.
To help do that, I'm joined by Bloomberg Opinion columnist
(01:41):
David Fickling. David, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Thanks for raka.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I have lived in Sydney before, and you know not
far from Bondai, so I know it well. You live
in Sydney now, but you're originally from the UK. Tell
me how long did it take you after you first
landed in Sydney to make that trek to Bondi Beach.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I first came to Sydney during the Olympics in two
thousand and I don't remember precisely when it was, but
I was here for about three weeks and I definitely
visited once then and I would say now, I'm actually
a bit of a devotee. Back then, like a lot
of people from the UK, I was not a good
swimmer and I'm probably still not a good swim, but
I'm a competent and avid ocean swimmer that now and
(02:24):
most weekends, particularly in summer, but actually all through the year,
you will find me at Bondi actually in exactly the
location that these tragic events took place. I recognized that
area very closely. I changed into my swimmers and my
goggles exactly where that location took place. That concrete bridge
that we've seen, I've crossed that or you know, most
(02:46):
weeks over the last five years walking down to the beach,
So I know that area very well, and it's a
place that it's important to me as it is to
a lot of Australians, Jewish Australians people around the world.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, I mean Bondai Beach. You know, it's one of
those places that, as you say, it's instantly recognizable, isn't it. David,
You've got a new column mount for Bloomberg Opinion this
week on the events of December fourteenth. Why does violence
at Bondai and the events of Sunday night feel fundamentally
different from similar events that we've seen happen elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I think in what you described there about the special
nature of Bondi that something that everyone is quite aware
of around the world. It's one of those iconic images
of Australia, you know, like Guloru, like Sydney Harbor, like
the Melbourne Cricket Ground. There's not many places like that
that are instantly recognizable in.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Quite that way.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So lots of people are quite aware of that. But
I think something as well that outsiders maybe don't realize
is that Bondai more broadly is a real heartland of
Jewish Australia as well. Even back in the nineteen twenty
the bat a third of the Jewish population of Sydney
lived in Bondi and neighboring suburbs, and a lot of
you know, a lot of the most notable Jewish Australians
(03:59):
Frank Lowey, the and of the Westfield shopping center chain,
Harry Trigebov, notable apartment developer, they have roots in Bondai.
Frank Loewe was longtime patron of a soccer club, the
Hackoa Club in Bondai. They will get their haircut and
Bondi Junction by a nonagenarian Plesma Singer. So it's there's
a real culture there that people are maybe not aware of.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Sea folly. The Australian swimwear.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Brand was founded by in nineteen seventy five by a
a Hungarian born Holocaust survivor.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
So there's that part of the image.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But then the other thing is, of course what you
mentioned in the first place, Australia. Although religion is possibly
at the heart of this attack, Australia's a very secular place.
About forty percent of the population is secular. But you know,
if there's a place in Australia that's a sort of
sacred space for that sort of secular nation, it is
the beach. If you look at Australian literature, very diverse writers,
(04:50):
Tim Winton, John Pilger, Alexis Right, David Malof, Bridger Delaney,
they all write about this sense of the beaches, somewhere
that is truly acred to Australia, a place that's far
more than just a place that you go to relax,
but someway that's almost spiritual. I think one of the
most famous photographic images of Australia, there's a nineteen thirty
seven photograph that any Australian and a lot of others
(05:12):
will know, a man lying on.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
A beach in Australia.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I think there was a Blue episode a few years
ago where they referenced that particular photo. So yes, I
think you know, nine percent of this population we live
within fifty kilometers of the beach, especially this time of
year it's the start of summer. Sydney in particular is
a real beach city. It speaks to a lot of
size of this country.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know, when I think about the holiday season getting warmer,
especially on Christmas Day, one of those iconic images that
we see broadcast here on December twenty fifth is that
image of tourists and locals alike in their Santa hats
down at Bondai Beach going for a swim. It really
is deeply enmeshed in terms of our national identity. I
want to talk a little bit about that with you, David.
(05:53):
Australia has long seen itself as as relatively insulated from
global turmoil. Has this punctured ourself image?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I mean, I think clearly it has in some ways.
I'm a migrant, as we gather, I'm from the UK
originally that time when I first came to Australia, when
I first went to Bondi Beach, I remember at that
time and the subsequent times I've been here, there is
a sense that you're distant from the world, even though
we live in a very interconnected world. I remember living
in the UK at the time of things like the
(06:23):
Russian invasion of Georgia or some of the you know,
pre Ukraine War, some of the aggression towards Ukraine, and
I remember feeling that a lot of this stuff was
very close to me, a sense of foreboding, that this
stuff was all around me. And that is I think,
certainly for me personally, but I think also for a
lot of Australians. I think there is a sense that
we are far from everywhere else. Having said that, I
(06:44):
would push back a little bit from the idea that
we're quite as isolated as we were. But back in
the thirties, when some of these, you know, the Jewish
migrants came to Australia that made Bondi Beach such a
center of Jewish culture in Australia, we really were distant.
You can only get here by boat, and you know,
news traveled by telegraph, but pretty slowly. But that's changed,
and that's actually been different for quite a long time.
(07:06):
I mean I mentioned this the soccer club in Bonda.
They had co club that Frank Lowe was a patron of.
In nineteen eighty two there was a major bombing that
was thought to be linked to Palestinian militants of that
football club and also of the Israeli constitulate, and the
suspected sort of perpetrators of that went on to bomber
a pan Am flight from Tokyo to Los Angeles. So
(07:26):
you know, we weren't insulated from that. The Barley bombings
in two thousand and two, a lot of people remember
two hundred and two people were killed. Eighty eight of
those were Australians, and a lot of people talk about
Barley as a sort of exclave of Australia.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
There's a lot of Australians there.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I remember the last time after a terrorist attack being
down at the beach, a lot of people from the
next beach but one down from Bondai Kuji. A lot
of people from the local rugby club in Kuji were
killed in the Barley bombings, and I remember going Tokujie
Beach in very similar circumstances to what we're seeing now.
People morning what had happened, even like in you know,
(08:00):
twenty nineteen, we had the christ Church mosque shootings of
white supremacist from near Sydney who was radically radicalized after
reading writings from a Norwegian mass killer shot fifty one
people dead. So we're not quite as isolated as we think.
And I think, you know, we've seen this huge surze
of anti Semitic attacks in the last couple of years
(08:20):
in Australia. We're much more connected to things, so you know,
if it's punctured that sense of us as somewhere that's sinsulated.
I think that that sense of us as an insulated
place was in some ways like an act of will
in the first place. We've never been as insulated as
we thought we were. We've really tried to make ourselves insulated.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
There has been significant international attention on this attack. Why
do you think it's resonated beyond Australia.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I mean, I think one thing is just that it's
incredibly human, the circumstances on which in which it happened.
I was looking at an online flyer for the Kuku
festival that was attacked, and you look at the events
that were listed. A petticins who face painting, ice cream,
hot chip free doughnuts, kosher food and men are a
lighting like these things are all. It's a family event
(09:06):
and very familiar family things. Any Jewish person worldwide want
to understand that feeling of Hanukah as a happily family event,
and I guess you know, in a lot of people's
minds there's a sort of fusion of the misery of
Hunakh and Christmas as festivals in December, involving candles and
gifts and families. So I think we all have a
deep understanding of that, and if anything, the more alienating
(09:27):
thing for most people around the world is that here
in Australia we celebrate Hanoker and Christmas in thirty degree
heat on the beach, which is which is that's the
unfamiliar feeling on the deepest fundamental human level, there's that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
But then, of course we've not spoke much.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
About yet, but we have to speak about there's a
political element to this. We don't exactly know the motive yet.
The police haven't stated that at this point, but it's
not hard to speculate. We have an attack on a
Hunuker festival on the first day of Hankker. One of
the alleged shooters is ordered to have had links to
extremists in Sydney who star themselves as an Islamic state cell.
(10:03):
And of course, as I said, there's been since the
Hummus attack on Israel in twenty twenty three and Israel's
war on guards, that there has been global attention on
political violence between Muslims and Jews. And this is incredily
vivid and horrible instance of that. You know, to your
point about isolation from global turmoil, there has been a
huge rise in antismitic incidents over the last few years,
as many in the past two years. In the previous ten,
(10:25):
according to a report a couple of weeks ago by
the Executive Council of Australian Jewy, there have been fire
bombings of cars and homes, graffiti with threats, slurs, swastikas,
windows smashed, countless verbal and physical abuse. And also, I
would say, and you know, there has been an increase
in Islamophobic attacks as well.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
But a lot of these.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Anti Semitic attacks, they appear to have been deliberately orchestrated
from outside. Just in August, Australiak spelled Iran's ambassador and
three other diplomats because They concluded that some of these attacks,
in fact one of them are fire bombing of a
kosher restaurant very close to Bondi Beach, have been orchestrated
by Iran's Revolutionary Guard. All this together, Australia has successfully
sold an image of itself both to the world and
(11:04):
to itself as this is full beachy place, a refuge
where the hatreds of the old world melt away, you know,
take off our clothes and frolic.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
In the waves.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You would be shocked to see violence, like you said
on Sunday, anywhere, but I think there is something about
the image of Australia to the world that makes it
particularly shocking. You're particularly shocked to see it in a
place which consciously styles itself as a place, you know,
beyond some of these hatreds of the old world, and
a place that you know, certainly you go to the beach,
(11:34):
there is you know, there is no place where you
feel more distant from from politics and from violence.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I want to pick up a little bit on that
beyond the social impact of this terror attack and look
at it from an economical political perspective. I suppose is
most appropriate, given that it's only happened in the last
a couple of days. The economic impact of an incident
like this does take some time to unravel and reveal itself.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
David, does this.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Moment put a strain on Australia's political future? And in
what ways should we expect to see this playing out
in the days and weeks ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I mean a lot now depends on how politicians and
public figures choose to respond to it. Australia prize itself
on it's multiculturalism, and in general we're probably not as
successful as a lot of people think we are, but
in a lot of ways we have been pretty successful,
and I think it's in the hands of politicians and
public figures to how.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
To respond to this. Obviously, the alleged attackers.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
On Sunday, again we don't know their motives, but it
looks pretty clear to me that they would want to
strain on multiculturalism. Why would you choose this target, Why
would you choose these people? You want to provoke people
into a reaction, very much like the christ Church killer
and all errors since time immemorial. You want you want
to carry out something political with your violence, and public
figures in these situations have a choice. They can decide
(13:03):
whether they want to give the terrorists what they want
or to deny it. Clearly, there's a problem with extremism
in Australia, specifically with anti Semitism. You don't get sixteen
hundred attacks in the pasty without that being the case.
But you're already hearing on social media and elsewhere people
trying to link this killing to immigration and to Islam,
and responsible politicians are going to push back on that.
(13:23):
They're not going to indulge that there's close to a
million Muslims in Australia.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
They're exactly the same as the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
This hero that a lot of people have seen on
videos tackling one of the shooters, Ahmed, is a Muslim,
And go to any Australian beach on a hot day
like Sunday and you'll find Muslim families and Jewish families barbecuing, swimming,
enjoying themselves like everyone else. So you know, if you
want to tackle terrorism, you're a tackle terrorism, you infiltrate
(13:49):
extremist networks, as the Australian government has been doing. Maybe
not successfully enough, I think clearly from what we've seen,
not successfully enough in this case. You know, if, as
some of the have been saying recently, one of the
killers have been investigated for extremist links, while the other
one his father, was allowed to hold a gun license.
If that's the case, it's clearly a terrible failure that
(14:11):
two people so closely linked living in the same house.
You know that this was this was not intervened in.
When people are mourning and scared as they are at
the moment, there's often an urge for vengeance, collective punishment,
but you know, strong actions. He's serious about multiculturism. You
attack terrorism, you don't attack you don't have collective punishment,
you don't, you know, make it a broader issue.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Finally, David, the events of Sunday have been described by
some as a cultural flash point. What are the risks
and opportunities in how Australia responds from this point?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, I think it's it's very much as as we
said it is a lot of people will want to
frame this as a as a flashpoint in Australia as
a multicultural nation. I am hopeful that the political backdrop
in Australia is so and what different to what we've
seen in other parts of the world.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
In that in most parts.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Of the world there is a huge backlash against migration.
There has certainly been like a rise in anti migration
sentiment in Australia, but it's still I think I saw
a survey from a couple of months ago. I think
only thirteen percent of the population counted as a top
three issue, So it's not a particularly salient issue. And
one difference I think that we're seeing is that in
(15:24):
a lot of the world, politicians are constantly worried about
losing voters to their right and to stronger anti migration
sentiment across the political spectrum from the left to the right.
If you look at Albanese's response to this so far,
mainly he's talked about gun control. He's not touched that
rail of anti migration sentiment. Maybe that will come in
(15:46):
the next few days, I sincerely hope not. I'm a
migrant to Australia and I like the multiculture of Australia,
and I like the spirit of you know, of that
Hanneka festival on the beach.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
All people have all you know, creeds.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And background and gathering together to just enjoy themselves. And
that's actually I think there is something important to that.
It's not just a scapism. I think there's something virtuous
in that, and so I would like to see a
little bit of spine and people in resisting that.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
David Fickling, thank you for your insights. If you found
today's conversation insightfu'l be sure to follow the Bloomberg Australia
Podcast wherever you listen, and check for more reading on
Australia's people and politics, including the latest from Bloomberg Opinion
columnist David Fickling at Bloomberg dot com. This episode was
recorded on the traditional lands of the Wire Wondery and
(16:32):
Getigal People. It was produced by Paul Allen and edited
by Chris Burke and Ainsley Chandler. I'm Rebecca Jones. Thanks
for listening.
I'm Rebecca Jones and this is the Bloomberg Australia podcast.
This isn't the episode we plan to end twenty twenty
five with, and it's certainly not one we ever imagined.
Having to make sixteen deceased persons is obviously a great
tragedy for this state.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Our thoughts, prayers and love.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Go out to all of the families that have ceased.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
My government will continue to stand with Jewish Australians and
continue to stand to stamp out anti Semitism in all
of its forms.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Bondai Beach is one of those rare places that belongs
equally to locals as it does to the world. For Sydneysiders,
it's a place of ritual from swims before work, hanging
at the playground and on the grassy foreshore with mates,
down in cocktails at icebergs, or for my kids, star
spotting lifeguards from the TV show Bondai Rescue come a
(01:00):
bit of a shorthand for Australia itself. Sunlit, multicultural resilient,
a strip of sand that carries both the easy joy
of life by the beach and a deeper meaning that
shows us how special shared public spaces can be. On
this week's show, we're examining why the terror attack at
(01:20):
Bondai on December fourteenth, Australia's worst ever, represents much more
than a single violent event. We'll examine why the events
of that evening feel like a cultural flashpoint and explore
what it says about Australia's relationship with the wider world.
To help do that, I'm joined by Bloomberg Opinion columnist
(01:41):
David Fickling. David, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Thanks for raka.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I have lived in Sydney before, and you know not
far from Bondai, so I know it well. You live
in Sydney now, but you're originally from the UK. Tell
me how long did it take you after you first
landed in Sydney to make that trek to Bondi Beach.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I first came to Sydney during the Olympics in two
thousand and I don't remember precisely when it was, but
I was here for about three weeks and I definitely
visited once then and I would say now, I'm actually
a bit of a devotee. Back then, like a lot
of people from the UK, I was not a good
swimmer and I'm probably still not a good swim, but
I'm a competent and avid ocean swimmer that now and
(02:24):
most weekends, particularly in summer, but actually all through the year,
you will find me at Bondi actually in exactly the
location that these tragic events took place. I recognized that
area very closely. I changed into my swimmers and my
goggles exactly where that location took place. That concrete bridge
that we've seen, I've crossed that or you know, most
(02:46):
weeks over the last five years walking down to the beach,
So I know that area very well, and it's a
place that it's important to me as it is to
a lot of Australians, Jewish Australians people around the world.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, I mean Bondai Beach. You know, it's one of
those places that, as you say, it's instantly recognizable, isn't it. David,
You've got a new column mount for Bloomberg Opinion this
week on the events of December fourteenth. Why does violence
at Bondai and the events of Sunday night feel fundamentally
different from similar events that we've seen happen elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I think in what you described there about the special
nature of Bondi that something that everyone is quite aware
of around the world. It's one of those iconic images
of Australia, you know, like Guloru, like Sydney Harbor, like
the Melbourne Cricket Ground. There's not many places like that
that are instantly recognizable in.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Quite that way.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So lots of people are quite aware of that. But
I think something as well that outsiders maybe don't realize
is that Bondai more broadly is a real heartland of
Jewish Australia as well. Even back in the nineteen twenty
the bat a third of the Jewish population of Sydney
lived in Bondi and neighboring suburbs, and a lot of
you know, a lot of the most notable Jewish Australians
(03:59):
Frank Lowey, the and of the Westfield shopping center chain,
Harry Trigebov, notable apartment developer, they have roots in Bondai.
Frank Loewe was longtime patron of a soccer club, the
Hackoa Club in Bondai. They will get their haircut and
Bondi Junction by a nonagenarian Plesma Singer. So it's there's
a real culture there that people are maybe not aware of.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Sea folly. The Australian swimwear.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Brand was founded by in nineteen seventy five by a
a Hungarian born Holocaust survivor.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
So there's that part of the image.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But then the other thing is, of course what you
mentioned in the first place, Australia. Although religion is possibly
at the heart of this attack, Australia's a very secular place.
About forty percent of the population is secular. But you know,
if there's a place in Australia that's a sort of
sacred space for that sort of secular nation, it is
the beach. If you look at Australian literature, very diverse writers,
(04:50):
Tim Winton, John Pilger, Alexis Right, David Malof, Bridger Delaney,
they all write about this sense of the beaches, somewhere
that is truly acred to Australia, a place that's far
more than just a place that you go to relax,
but someway that's almost spiritual. I think one of the
most famous photographic images of Australia, there's a nineteen thirty
seven photograph that any Australian and a lot of others
(05:12):
will know, a man lying on.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
A beach in Australia.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I think there was a Blue episode a few years
ago where they referenced that particular photo. So yes, I
think you know, nine percent of this population we live
within fifty kilometers of the beach, especially this time of
year it's the start of summer. Sydney in particular is
a real beach city. It speaks to a lot of
size of this country.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know, when I think about the holiday season getting warmer,
especially on Christmas Day, one of those iconic images that
we see broadcast here on December twenty fifth is that
image of tourists and locals alike in their Santa hats
down at Bondai Beach going for a swim. It really
is deeply enmeshed in terms of our national identity. I
want to talk a little bit about that with you, David.
(05:53):
Australia has long seen itself as as relatively insulated from
global turmoil. Has this punctured ourself image?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I mean, I think clearly it has in some ways.
I'm a migrant, as we gather, I'm from the UK
originally that time when I first came to Australia, when
I first went to Bondi Beach, I remember at that
time and the subsequent times I've been here, there is
a sense that you're distant from the world, even though
we live in a very interconnected world. I remember living
in the UK at the time of things like the
(06:23):
Russian invasion of Georgia or some of the you know,
pre Ukraine War, some of the aggression towards Ukraine, and
I remember feeling that a lot of this stuff was
very close to me, a sense of foreboding, that this
stuff was all around me. And that is I think,
certainly for me personally, but I think also for a
lot of Australians. I think there is a sense that
we are far from everywhere else. Having said that, I
(06:44):
would push back a little bit from the idea that
we're quite as isolated as we were. But back in
the thirties, when some of these, you know, the Jewish
migrants came to Australia that made Bondi Beach such a
center of Jewish culture in Australia, we really were distant.
You can only get here by boat, and you know,
news traveled by telegraph, but pretty slowly. But that's changed,
and that's actually been different for quite a long time.
(07:06):
I mean I mentioned this the soccer club in Bonda.
They had co club that Frank Lowe was a patron of.
In nineteen eighty two there was a major bombing that
was thought to be linked to Palestinian militants of that
football club and also of the Israeli constitulate, and the
suspected sort of perpetrators of that went on to bomber
a pan Am flight from Tokyo to Los Angeles. So
(07:26):
you know, we weren't insulated from that. The Barley bombings
in two thousand and two, a lot of people remember
two hundred and two people were killed. Eighty eight of
those were Australians, and a lot of people talk about
Barley as a sort of exclave of Australia.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
There's a lot of Australians there.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I remember the last time after a terrorist attack being
down at the beach, a lot of people from the
next beach but one down from Bondai Kuji. A lot
of people from the local rugby club in Kuji were
killed in the Barley bombings, and I remember going Tokujie
Beach in very similar circumstances to what we're seeing now.
People morning what had happened, even like in you know,
(08:00):
twenty nineteen, we had the christ Church mosque shootings of
white supremacist from near Sydney who was radically radicalized after
reading writings from a Norwegian mass killer shot fifty one
people dead. So we're not quite as isolated as we think.
And I think, you know, we've seen this huge surze
of anti Semitic attacks in the last couple of years
(08:20):
in Australia. We're much more connected to things, so you know,
if it's punctured that sense of us as somewhere that's sinsulated.
I think that that sense of us as an insulated
place was in some ways like an act of will
in the first place. We've never been as insulated as
we thought we were. We've really tried to make ourselves insulated.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
There has been significant international attention on this attack. Why
do you think it's resonated beyond Australia.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I mean, I think one thing is just that it's
incredibly human, the circumstances on which in which it happened.
I was looking at an online flyer for the Kuku
festival that was attacked, and you look at the events
that were listed. A petticins who face painting, ice cream,
hot chip free doughnuts, kosher food and men are a
lighting like these things are all. It's a family event
(09:06):
and very familiar family things. Any Jewish person worldwide want
to understand that feeling of Hanukah as a happily family event,
and I guess you know, in a lot of people's
minds there's a sort of fusion of the misery of
Hunakh and Christmas as festivals in December, involving candles and
gifts and families. So I think we all have a
deep understanding of that, and if anything, the more alienating
(09:27):
thing for most people around the world is that here
in Australia we celebrate Hanoker and Christmas in thirty degree
heat on the beach, which is which is that's the
unfamiliar feeling on the deepest fundamental human level, there's that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
But then, of course we've not spoke much.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
About yet, but we have to speak about there's a
political element to this. We don't exactly know the motive yet.
The police haven't stated that at this point, but it's
not hard to speculate. We have an attack on a
Hunuker festival on the first day of Hankker. One of
the alleged shooters is ordered to have had links to
extremists in Sydney who star themselves as an Islamic state cell.
(10:03):
And of course, as I said, there's been since the
Hummus attack on Israel in twenty twenty three and Israel's
war on guards, that there has been global attention on
political violence between Muslims and Jews. And this is incredily
vivid and horrible instance of that. You know, to your
point about isolation from global turmoil, there has been a
huge rise in antismitic incidents over the last few years,
as many in the past two years. In the previous ten,
(10:25):
according to a report a couple of weeks ago by
the Executive Council of Australian Jewy, there have been fire
bombings of cars and homes, graffiti with threats, slurs, swastikas,
windows smashed, countless verbal and physical abuse. And also, I
would say, and you know, there has been an increase
in Islamophobic attacks as well.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
But a lot of these.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Anti Semitic attacks, they appear to have been deliberately orchestrated
from outside. Just in August, Australiak spelled Iran's ambassador and
three other diplomats because They concluded that some of these attacks,
in fact one of them are fire bombing of a
kosher restaurant very close to Bondi Beach, have been orchestrated
by Iran's Revolutionary Guard. All this together, Australia has successfully
sold an image of itself both to the world and
(11:04):
to itself as this is full beachy place, a refuge
where the hatreds of the old world melt away, you know,
take off our clothes and frolic.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
In the waves.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You would be shocked to see violence, like you said
on Sunday, anywhere, but I think there is something about
the image of Australia to the world that makes it
particularly shocking. You're particularly shocked to see it in a
place which consciously styles itself as a place, you know,
beyond some of these hatreds of the old world, and
a place that you know, certainly you go to the beach,
(11:34):
there is you know, there is no place where you
feel more distant from from politics and from violence.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I want to pick up a little bit on that
beyond the social impact of this terror attack and look
at it from an economical political perspective. I suppose is
most appropriate, given that it's only happened in the last
a couple of days. The economic impact of an incident
like this does take some time to unravel and reveal itself.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
David, does this.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Moment put a strain on Australia's political future? And in
what ways should we expect to see this playing out
in the days and weeks ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I mean a lot now depends on how politicians and
public figures choose to respond to it. Australia prize itself
on it's multiculturalism, and in general we're probably not as
successful as a lot of people think we are, but
in a lot of ways we have been pretty successful,
and I think it's in the hands of politicians and
public figures to how.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
To respond to this. Obviously, the alleged attackers.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
On Sunday, again we don't know their motives, but it
looks pretty clear to me that they would want to
strain on multiculturalism. Why would you choose this target, Why
would you choose these people? You want to provoke people
into a reaction, very much like the christ Church killer
and all errors since time immemorial. You want you want
to carry out something political with your violence, and public
figures in these situations have a choice. They can decide
(13:03):
whether they want to give the terrorists what they want
or to deny it. Clearly, there's a problem with extremism
in Australia, specifically with anti Semitism. You don't get sixteen
hundred attacks in the pasty without that being the case.
But you're already hearing on social media and elsewhere people
trying to link this killing to immigration and to Islam,
and responsible politicians are going to push back on that.
(13:23):
They're not going to indulge that there's close to a
million Muslims in Australia.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
They're exactly the same as the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
This hero that a lot of people have seen on
videos tackling one of the shooters, Ahmed, is a Muslim,
And go to any Australian beach on a hot day
like Sunday and you'll find Muslim families and Jewish families barbecuing, swimming,
enjoying themselves like everyone else. So you know, if you
want to tackle terrorism, you're a tackle terrorism, you infiltrate
(13:49):
extremist networks, as the Australian government has been doing. Maybe
not successfully enough, I think clearly from what we've seen,
not successfully enough in this case. You know, if, as
some of the have been saying recently, one of the
killers have been investigated for extremist links, while the other
one his father, was allowed to hold a gun license.
If that's the case, it's clearly a terrible failure that
(14:11):
two people so closely linked living in the same house.
You know that this was this was not intervened in.
When people are mourning and scared as they are at
the moment, there's often an urge for vengeance, collective punishment,
but you know, strong actions. He's serious about multiculturism. You
attack terrorism, you don't attack you don't have collective punishment,
you don't, you know, make it a broader issue.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Finally, David, the events of Sunday have been described by
some as a cultural flash point. What are the risks
and opportunities in how Australia responds from this point?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, I think it's it's very much as as we
said it is a lot of people will want to
frame this as a as a flashpoint in Australia as
a multicultural nation. I am hopeful that the political backdrop
in Australia is so and what different to what we've
seen in other parts of the world.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
In that in most parts.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Of the world there is a huge backlash against migration.
There has certainly been like a rise in anti migration
sentiment in Australia, but it's still I think I saw
a survey from a couple of months ago. I think
only thirteen percent of the population counted as a top
three issue, So it's not a particularly salient issue. And
one difference I think that we're seeing is that in
(15:24):
a lot of the world, politicians are constantly worried about
losing voters to their right and to stronger anti migration
sentiment across the political spectrum from the left to the right.
If you look at Albanese's response to this so far,
mainly he's talked about gun control. He's not touched that
rail of anti migration sentiment. Maybe that will come in
(15:46):
the next few days, I sincerely hope not. I'm a
migrant to Australia and I like the multiculture of Australia,
and I like the spirit of you know, of that
Hanneka festival on the beach.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
All people have all you know, creeds.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And background and gathering together to just enjoy themselves. And
that's actually I think there is something important to that.
It's not just a scapism. I think there's something virtuous
in that, and so I would like to see a
little bit of spine and people in resisting that.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
David Fickling, thank you for your insights. If you found
today's conversation insightfu'l be sure to follow the Bloomberg Australia
Podcast wherever you listen, and check for more reading on
Australia's people and politics, including the latest from Bloomberg Opinion
columnist David Fickling at Bloomberg dot com. This episode was
recorded on the traditional lands of the Wire Wondery and
(16:32):
Getigal People. It was produced by Paul Allen and edited
by Chris Burke and Ainsley Chandler. I'm Rebecca Jones. Thanks
for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!