April 16, 2025 • 23 mins
Three years ago, Australia was on the verge of an election dominated by a wave of independent MPs who promised a climate change reckoning. But climate talk seems to have taken a backseat in the current campaign ahead of the May 3 national poll.
This week on the podcast, host Rebecca Jones and Bloomberg’s David Stringer break down the energy policies being pushed by the major parties this election campaign.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Three years ago, Australia was on the verge of an
election dominated by a wave of independent MPs who promised
a climate change reckoning. We're heading to the polls again
in just over two weeks, so where are all the
climate warriors?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Climate change is having an impact on our weather patterns.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
If the renewables are so much cheaper as the Prime
Minister keeps telling you, why has he broken his promise
of a two hundred and seventy five dollars a year
cut to your electricity bill. Here's the lowdown on nuclear power.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It will add twelve hundred dollars to your power built,
it will take decades to build. It will block cheaper
renewable energy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Hello. I'm Rebecca Jones, and welcome to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast.
This week we're taking a look at how climate issues
are featuring in the federal election campaign. Here with me
is David Stringer, who heads up climate and ESG coverage
in Asia for Bloomberg News. He also has the thrilling
privilege of sharing a pod with me in the Melbourne
(01:06):
Bureau for the better part of the last decade. So
it's safe to suggest that this is a topic that
we have discussed at length over the years, and it
felt only right to let you all eavesdrop in on
something that we at least can't stop talking about. David, Hello,
thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Thanks a pleasure, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So Australian elections have seen divisive arguments in the past
two decades over climate policy, and it's often been an
area of clear difference between the main parties at a
time of pressing concerns among voters over a raft of
other things, from the cost of living to the affordability
of housing to the impact of the US China trade war.
(01:47):
Is climate change of factor in this campaign?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think it's quite clear, having observed the campaign over
the past few weeks, that it's quite clearly quite.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Different to elections past.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
If we think about more recent elections, the climate debate
has often been incredibly noisy. This time around, it's still
there as an issue, but it's more of a background hum.
It's simply not getting the attention as an issue that's
been in the past. That's understandable. I mean, if we
think back to twenty twenty two, Australia was just sort
of getting over and still was quite clear in people's
(02:23):
minds that the impact that those devastating twenty nineteen twenty
twenty bushfires had had, right yeah, really brought home some
of the potential some of the consequences of a lack
of action on climate change from the then government. We
saw some of that feed through and certainly benefits some
of those Teal candidate. They campaigned on a platform of
(02:44):
increased climate action. They were very critical of the then
Scott Morrison government's timid approach towards reducing emissions. If we
think even further back twenty thirteen, you know, one of
the first national elections that I saw here in Australia.
Back then, debate was dominated by the carbon pricing mechanism
carbon taxed by another name, in effect brought Tony Abbott
(03:07):
to power. He campaigned incredibly hard on repealing that mechanism
one office and subsequently did scrap it. So we've been
through a period where climate has been a real driver
of policy and debate. It's seen party leaders ours did.
It's been a determinate elections this time not so much so.
I guess the question I've been asking myself is why
(03:29):
is that it.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Has been quite a busy decade, hasn't it? I mean,
who can forget that iconic image of former Prime Minister
Scott Morrison holding the chunk of therm or coal in Parliament?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
This is Cole don't be.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Fright, Scare Treasurer.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
The rule on props a useful place. I think that
we should start this discussion at is what is on
the table from both of our two major parties going
into the twenty twenty five elections. David, can you step
us through the key differences in energy policy this time time?
Is it as simple as nuclear versus renewables for example?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Clearly there are differences between the two major parties. But
I'm going to be a little bit contrarian and I'm
going to point to something where there is an area
of consensus. Both major parties are going into this campaign
saying Australia needs to hit net zero emissions by twenty fifty.
There's no debate over the end point. There's no confusion
over the goal. Where there are differences is how do
(04:28):
we get there how fast?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
At what cost?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
You know, and at what cost to communities? Not just
at what financial cost. If we look at Labour's platform,
you know they did bring in a raft of measures
in the In their first term, they legislated a more
ambitious target for emissions reductions that's forty three percent below
twenty twenty that's forty three percent below two thousand and
(04:53):
five levels by twenty thirty, and they'll continue to support
the adoption of large scale renewables, made a pledge for
around about two billion Australian dollars extra in funding for
the Clean Energy Finance Corp that sort of seeds renewables
and green technologies. There's a program to subsidize household batteries
(05:14):
that's intended to help extend that solar boom we've seen
in Australia, you know. And there are some policies around
this ambition to bring green manufacturing jobs away from places
like China and here in Australia. It's pretty much steady
as she goes in terms of their policy this time,
the Liberal Party, we haven't heard a huge amount, but
what we have is very interesting and chiefly among it,
(05:37):
as you mentioned, the idea of bringing nuclear power to Australia.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yes, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
The detail is something clearly that you know, we still
want to see more of and still needs to be
worked out but you know, in in simple terms, you know,
what the Liberal Party have suggested is having seven locations
across Australia that for the first time ever, would provide
nuclear power generation. You know, that would take a number
of steps. Nuclear power is illegal in lots of parts
(06:06):
of the country. It can take a long time and
is incredibly expensive. How those things are reconciled were yet
to fully understand. But it is a key policy and
a key point of difference between the two parties.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So there is a general alignment on some metrics, but
in others they do vary quite widely. I would like
to zoom in on some of the key seats that
we're looking at this election. One that comes to my
mind is the electric of Hunter, which of course has
coal as its major industry. Now, David, you and I
(06:39):
both know working in the bureaus here that we've had
other regional polls occur in recent times. Has been There's
been one in Queensland, There's also been one in WA.
What do the results in those states tell us about
the climate outlook nationally for Australia.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You mentioned the Hunter Valley and of course that lump
of coal you referenced before that was held by Skool
Morrison in twenty seventeen from the Hunter Valley and it
remains a really crucial emblem, you know, and symbol in
this election because how do you handle the transition of
those kinds of communities from traditional industries in this case coal,
(07:15):
to future industries where the outlook is uncertain. So it
would be really interesting to see what happens in New
South Wales. Of the recent regional elections we've had, the
one that's really interested me is in Queensland, where we
saw the incumbent Labor government replaced by a new Liberal
National Coalition government very quickly. We've seen some big and
significant decisions on climate and energy policy. The government there
(07:38):
has announced a sort of five year energy plan that
it's working on. Also, it's already put a couple one
hundred million dollars into the maintenance and upgrades of existing
coal plants. It signaled that it sees a longer life
for the cold fired power capacity in Queensland. It expects
it to continue for far longer than expected. What's most
(07:59):
interesting is if that's the kind of policy that we
could see, if we see that result replicated nationally, and what.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
About WA because I think people outside of Australia when
they're thinking about the resource industry within Australia, they think
of the Pilborough right, the great open expansive desert. What
happened in their recent regional poll.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I mean in Western Australia, and it's a place I've
been very fortunate to visit a lot during my career
at Bloomberg and spend a lot of time luckily in
the Pilborough. There's a few dynamics going on there. Obviously,
we saw the Labor government return to office, you know,
but was that an entirely positive step on climate policy.
I think that's debatable. One of the big criticisms nationally
(08:43):
of Antony Alberniesi's Labor government has been that they've been
too weak on implementing environmental policies. They came into the
last election, they campaigned in the last election with promises
to overhaul environmental legislation, to introduce a national Environment agency.
What we've seen in Western Australia is a lot of
(09:04):
pushback against any new burdens of regulation, not only from
the resources industry, but absolutely from companies developing new minds,
new gas export plans. Even companies who are looking to
establish new green manufacturing sites. What they don't want is
an additional burden of environmental legislation. And what we saw
(09:25):
in that Western Australia poll very successfully lobbied the local
the WA labor government to you not to back new restrictions.
So yeah, quite interesting in both cases to see how
that could inform the national debate and national policy.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And certainly what happens in the Hunter electorate. You know
in a couple of weeks time. Now you briefly touched
on targets earlier, David, I want to pick up on
that a little bit. Now. Australia is regarded, as you know,
somewhat of a global tess case for the energy transition,
and it does in turn attract investment and attention from
all over the place. Right, what is the actual status
(10:03):
of Australia's in a due transition? Are we actually on
track to hit targets to reduce greenhouse gases?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's one of those scenarios where you can probably make
an argument either way.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So I think the truth is it's debatable.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So whre missions in the year to last March were
they were about twenty eight point two percent below June
two thousand and five levels.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
That's the level that we're looking at.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's the baseline for the targets that the existing government
have outlined, and again that is to make a forty
three percent reduction by twenty thirty, so still somewhere to go.
The pace at which reductions are being made is, you know,
charitably about on track. I think realistically probably a little
too slow. And there are also other debates around what's
(10:51):
included and what's excluded.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
When you come to countermissions.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
You know, if we think about the policy settings, there's
a there's a nonprofit globally that sort of grade countries
climate policies and their targets Climate Action Tracker, and it
currently sees Australia's policy settings and Australia's targets as insufficient.
The one area that it identifies chiefly is there's a
lot of reliance on future technologies that are yet to
(11:16):
have been commercialized and developed, and not a lot of
policy on phasing out things like coll exports, gas exports,
the thing that are huge drivers of export earnings.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So it's a little bit chicken and egg like, we've
got to have the technology to do it, and we've
got to get the technology first and agree how we're
going to do that and also finance it. I think
one thing recently that's also been quite profound is the
responsibility for domestic policy most certainly, but also Australia's place
within the region. We had some quite pointed comments from
(11:51):
the President of Palao just this month on Australia as
a sort of a big brother of the Pacific, wanting
it to take more of a leadership role of this
topic in the region. Let's take a quick listen.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
We are part of the Pacific family. We need to
work together to solve problems. And it's not a joke.
Climate change is a reality and it's something that we
face every day and we need Australia's support and we're
ready to work with whoever is in government to tackle
these problems. And it's so important that the Australian people
(12:26):
understand that it's their leadership should take a leadership role
in the Pacific and work with us to meet the
challenges that we have ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
David, it is quite a tense time in the Pacific,
with China fighting for influence in the region. Is Australia
doing enough on climate change? To support its specific neighbors.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I think if you ask and we heard, of course
they're from power. If you ask a lot of Pacific nations,
the answer would be no. But then if we think
back to the time of the last election, at that moment,
Australia was regarded on the sort of international scene and
in terms of climate diplomacy as a complete outlier. Australia
(13:09):
had seeded, you know, a lot of its influence on
the global stage, and you know, the current government has
spent quite a lot of time trying to rebuild that
trust and trying to really reassert itself in just the
global process of supporting the International Approach to Climate Act.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
But you know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Specific nations clearly are in a tough spot. And I
think what we saw at the most recent global climate
talks in Azerbaijan last year was a continued sense of disappointment.
Developing countries came into that meeting asking rich countries for
you know, a commitment to direct about a trillion dollars,
you know, in climate financing to the emerging world. What
(13:52):
they got was a commitment for three hundred billion, so
a lot less than expected. Australia is one of those
developed nations that is being asked to do more, and
so you know, quite rightly, I think the Pacific.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Not only Australia, but Australia.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Because of its role in the region, they are asking
Australia to step up.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
When we come back, let's lens in and consider the
almighty dollar. How are investors in renewables approaching the election
and what do they want to see from Messrs Albinizi
and Dutton. You're listening to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast And
welcome back to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast. You're here with
(14:32):
me Rebecca Jones, and I'm talking all things climate with
Bloomberg's APEC, head of ESG and green coverage, my mate
David Stringer. David, let's talk about money. Has the ALP
seen an increase in investments in renewables over the last
three years and how are those investors approaching this election?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, there's nothing I like better than pulling up charts
of energy transition investment, you know, and taking a look
at what's actually happening on the ground, where is money flowing?
And I think if you ask most voters, I think
their assumption would be that under an Albanzy government, what
we would have seen is a continued flow of more investment.
(15:14):
In truth, that's not the case. If we look at
total energy transition investments, so that's the power system, that's
clean transport, you know, that's clear agriculture that actually fell
about five percent last year to just less than twenty
three billion. That's even though what we are seeing and
what we did see last year is a sort of
rebound in investment into renewables, into clean energy. We also
(15:38):
saw a little bit more spending on electrified transport, but
in total it fell again. And if we think the
total spending that our colleagues at Bloomberg NYF Research is,
they forecast that between now and twenty fifty, you know,
Australia is going to need to spend about two point
four trillion US dollars just on energy alone. How quickly
(16:01):
that investment ramps up is really crucial.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I want to talk to you about a national obsession. Well,
I mean, certainly to me it feels like it's a
bit of an obsession, and that is the adoption of solar,
something that's done quite well. How is that transforming the
country's energy system and is it a trend that we
think will continue in the same fashion.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I think if you talk to experts on energy markets,
it's hard. It's hard to overstate how transformative the adoption of.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Solar in Australia has been. If we think there's been enough.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Solar installed on rooftops across Australia to really account for
one in every three houses, astonishing way. And what's really
interesting is we're not necessarily talking about urban homes in
places like Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane to a large extent,
these are solar panels that have been installed in rural
(16:55):
community and in large numbers. So how's that changed the
energy sygnel quite radically. What it means is that right
now there's often an excess of power being generated during
the middle of the day the suns that it's height
when we're getting the most radiation on those panels, And
in a sense, the solar sector in Australia has kind
of been a victim of its own success. And in fact,
(17:17):
a colleagues that BNF their analysis tells them is that
for residential solace that we think adoption peaked in twenty
twenty one and as being in a slow decline since
then because rebates and incentives have come off, we've seen,
you know, the value of sending excess power to the
(17:37):
grid become lower and lower because basically, how is worthless
in the middle of the day now because there is
so much solar, there's so little demand, that the power
itself becomes cheaper. One of the proposals we've heard in
this campaign from Labor is a policy to subsidize household battery.
They want to see more people pair up their rooftop
(17:59):
solar systems with storage batteries. That allows people to use
it when it's needed, it sees less wastage, and you know,
that's a potential policy that could help to some degree
extend the solar book.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So I was right. Then, solar panels are everywhere and
we are obsessed with them. That is like a really
well known manifestation of renewable energy, right. You know, you
go to Waikia, you see the solar panels on the roof.
Go and have a look at my parents' beach house.
It's covered in them. David, what when we're thinking about
(18:32):
investments in renewables, certainly extending beyond solar panels, what other
things are we're needing investment in for one, and what
are some of the proposals that both of the parties
are putting forward in this campaign.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Well quiet, I mean, so if we think about rooftop solar,
you know, as a sector that added about three giga
what's last year, what's that? Well, that's sort of roughly
equivalent about three cold fired power stations.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
That's not enough.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
What we're really focused on is large scale renewables projects,
things with the sort of size and scale that can
actually help Australia replace those big fossil fuel sites. And
that requires a lot of investment, clearly, you know, and
as we said, it's been a very complex picture in
the past few years under the Albanese government.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
If we zero in on renewable energy investment.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
You can really see, even looking at a chart, you
can see when people talk about investor uncertainty and people
being worried about policy change, it's there in the sort
of it's there in a bar chut you can see,
you know, you can see investment yoe yeoing from year
to year. And so what we had was between sort
of twenty eighteen and twenty twenty one investment in these
(19:50):
large scale renewable projects really created, rebounded and then actually
fell sharply again twenty twenty three, rebounded last year, and
a lot of that is down to a policy the
Labor government brought in the Capacity Investment Scheme. Now it
sounds complicated, but you know, put very simply.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Kind of what it does. It sets a floor, a
revenue floor for a renewable project.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
The project earns less than expected, the government meets some
of the difference, and similarly there's like a revenue ceiling.
If it does better than expected, you're going to pay
some of that access right.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
It helps investors have.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Certainty when they're thinking about these multi billion dollar investment.
What's interesting is the Liberal parties plan for that scheme
is to add natural gas. That's opposed by Labor who
say that will deter the purpose of the scheme, which
is to encourage private investment in wind, in solar, in
renewable endings. So yeah, rooftops we're seeing potentially start to
(20:50):
peter out and sortlatter. What the real focus is, what's
the direction of those really big, large scale.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I want to ask you about another thing that Australians
love and that we think about all the time, and
that is driving our cars. Power isn't the only sector
crucial to Australia's decarbonization obviously, and we have moved on.
I like to think from Scott Morrison's famous claim that
electric vehicles are going to end the weekend. But is
(21:18):
there a consensus among the parties around phasing out gas
guzzling cars and utes. What does the data tell us?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know, Australia is still seen as something of a
laggard on adoption of electric vehicles, which kind of surprises
me in a way because and you know this as well.
Any time we're out on a street here in Melbourne,
the number of Tesla's increasingly, the number of BYD cars
that we see, never mind all of the other myriad
(21:49):
of electric models that are available. Now that anecdotal evidence
would seem to suggest that things are really taking off.
What the numbers tell us is that they're not. I
think there were just over around about one hundred and
fourteen thousands new electric vehicle sold last year compared to
about one hundred thousand in twenty twenty three, So an increase,
(22:11):
but not the kinds of dramatic jumps we're seeing in
other jurisdictions.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Part of that is policy.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And what we're seeing in this election, although it hasn't
featured massively, what we've seen from the Liberal Party is
an indication that they would effectively sort of weaken the
New Vehicle Efficiency that's a set of policies that helps
encourage adoption of lower missions, cleaner, more efficient vehicle. The
(22:39):
concern from advocates of evs is that by weakening that
kind of policy you effectively open the Australian market up
for foreign automakers to dump their dirtier, less efficient cars
in this much rather than foster courage or evs to
be sold.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So we have two major parties aligned on the fact
that we need to move to net zero, but with
different ideas on how to get there. Our position in
the Pacific, as let's face it, the biggest player, is
under even more scrutiny from our smaller neighbors, and the
way we get investment in renewables is something both parties
disagree on. The Libs on one side want to include
(23:18):
natural gas in the investment scheme. Labor says you are
missing the point. So who said climate wasn't on the agenda?
David Stringer, thanks for your time today.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Thanks great to be a Headbick.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And thank you for listening to the Bloomberg Australia podcast.
I'm Rebecca Jones. This episode was recorded on the traditional
lands of the wil Wandery people of the Coola Nation.
It was produced by Paul Allen and edited by Ainsley
Chandler and Chris Burke. Don't forget to follow and review
the show wherever you get your podcasts, and sign up
for Bloomberg's free daily newsletter, Australia Briefing. Go to Bloomberg
(23:53):
dot com to subscribe.
Three years ago, Australia was on the verge of an
election dominated by a wave of independent MPs who promised
a climate change reckoning. We're heading to the polls again
in just over two weeks, so where are all the
climate warriors?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Climate change is having an impact on our weather patterns.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
If the renewables are so much cheaper as the Prime
Minister keeps telling you, why has he broken his promise
of a two hundred and seventy five dollars a year
cut to your electricity bill. Here's the lowdown on nuclear power.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It will add twelve hundred dollars to your power built,
it will take decades to build. It will block cheaper
renewable energy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Hello. I'm Rebecca Jones, and welcome to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast.
This week we're taking a look at how climate issues
are featuring in the federal election campaign. Here with me
is David Stringer, who heads up climate and ESG coverage
in Asia for Bloomberg News. He also has the thrilling
privilege of sharing a pod with me in the Melbourne
(01:06):
Bureau for the better part of the last decade. So
it's safe to suggest that this is a topic that
we have discussed at length over the years, and it
felt only right to let you all eavesdrop in on
something that we at least can't stop talking about. David, Hello,
thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Thanks a pleasure, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So Australian elections have seen divisive arguments in the past
two decades over climate policy, and it's often been an
area of clear difference between the main parties at a
time of pressing concerns among voters over a raft of
other things, from the cost of living to the affordability
of housing to the impact of the US China trade war.
(01:47):
Is climate change of factor in this campaign?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think it's quite clear, having observed the campaign over
the past few weeks, that it's quite clearly quite.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Different to elections past.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
If we think about more recent elections, the climate debate
has often been incredibly noisy. This time around, it's still
there as an issue, but it's more of a background hum.
It's simply not getting the attention as an issue that's
been in the past. That's understandable. I mean, if we
think back to twenty twenty two, Australia was just sort
of getting over and still was quite clear in people's
(02:23):
minds that the impact that those devastating twenty nineteen twenty
twenty bushfires had had, right yeah, really brought home some
of the potential some of the consequences of a lack
of action on climate change from the then government. We
saw some of that feed through and certainly benefits some
of those Teal candidate. They campaigned on a platform of
(02:44):
increased climate action. They were very critical of the then
Scott Morrison government's timid approach towards reducing emissions. If we
think even further back twenty thirteen, you know, one of
the first national elections that I saw here in Australia.
Back then, debate was dominated by the carbon pricing mechanism
carbon taxed by another name, in effect brought Tony Abbott
(03:07):
to power. He campaigned incredibly hard on repealing that mechanism
one office and subsequently did scrap it. So we've been
through a period where climate has been a real driver
of policy and debate. It's seen party leaders ours did.
It's been a determinate elections this time not so much so.
I guess the question I've been asking myself is why
(03:29):
is that it.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Has been quite a busy decade, hasn't it? I mean,
who can forget that iconic image of former Prime Minister
Scott Morrison holding the chunk of therm or coal in Parliament?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
This is Cole don't be.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Fright, Scare Treasurer.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
The rule on props a useful place. I think that
we should start this discussion at is what is on
the table from both of our two major parties going
into the twenty twenty five elections. David, can you step
us through the key differences in energy policy this time time?
Is it as simple as nuclear versus renewables for example?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Clearly there are differences between the two major parties. But
I'm going to be a little bit contrarian and I'm
going to point to something where there is an area
of consensus. Both major parties are going into this campaign
saying Australia needs to hit net zero emissions by twenty fifty.
There's no debate over the end point. There's no confusion
over the goal. Where there are differences is how do
(04:28):
we get there how fast?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
At what cost?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
You know, and at what cost to communities? Not just
at what financial cost. If we look at Labour's platform,
you know they did bring in a raft of measures
in the In their first term, they legislated a more
ambitious target for emissions reductions that's forty three percent below
twenty twenty that's forty three percent below two thousand and
(04:53):
five levels by twenty thirty, and they'll continue to support
the adoption of large scale renewables, made a pledge for
around about two billion Australian dollars extra in funding for
the Clean Energy Finance Corp that sort of seeds renewables
and green technologies. There's a program to subsidize household batteries
(05:14):
that's intended to help extend that solar boom we've seen
in Australia, you know. And there are some policies around
this ambition to bring green manufacturing jobs away from places
like China and here in Australia. It's pretty much steady
as she goes in terms of their policy this time,
the Liberal Party, we haven't heard a huge amount, but
what we have is very interesting and chiefly among it,
(05:37):
as you mentioned, the idea of bringing nuclear power to Australia.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yes, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
The detail is something clearly that you know, we still
want to see more of and still needs to be
worked out but you know, in in simple terms, you know,
what the Liberal Party have suggested is having seven locations
across Australia that for the first time ever, would provide
nuclear power generation. You know, that would take a number
of steps. Nuclear power is illegal in lots of parts
(06:06):
of the country. It can take a long time and
is incredibly expensive. How those things are reconciled were yet
to fully understand. But it is a key policy and
a key point of difference between the two parties.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So there is a general alignment on some metrics, but
in others they do vary quite widely. I would like
to zoom in on some of the key seats that
we're looking at this election. One that comes to my
mind is the electric of Hunter, which of course has
coal as its major industry. Now, David, you and I
(06:39):
both know working in the bureaus here that we've had
other regional polls occur in recent times. Has been There's
been one in Queensland, There's also been one in WA.
What do the results in those states tell us about
the climate outlook nationally for Australia.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You mentioned the Hunter Valley and of course that lump
of coal you referenced before that was held by Skool
Morrison in twenty seventeen from the Hunter Valley and it
remains a really crucial emblem, you know, and symbol in
this election because how do you handle the transition of
those kinds of communities from traditional industries in this case coal,
(07:15):
to future industries where the outlook is uncertain. So it
would be really interesting to see what happens in New
South Wales. Of the recent regional elections we've had, the
one that's really interested me is in Queensland, where we
saw the incumbent Labor government replaced by a new Liberal
National Coalition government very quickly. We've seen some big and
significant decisions on climate and energy policy. The government there
(07:38):
has announced a sort of five year energy plan that
it's working on. Also, it's already put a couple one
hundred million dollars into the maintenance and upgrades of existing
coal plants. It signaled that it sees a longer life
for the cold fired power capacity in Queensland. It expects
it to continue for far longer than expected. What's most
(07:59):
interesting is if that's the kind of policy that we
could see, if we see that result replicated nationally, and what.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
About WA because I think people outside of Australia when
they're thinking about the resource industry within Australia, they think
of the Pilborough right, the great open expansive desert. What
happened in their recent regional poll.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I mean in Western Australia, and it's a place I've
been very fortunate to visit a lot during my career
at Bloomberg and spend a lot of time luckily in
the Pilborough. There's a few dynamics going on there. Obviously,
we saw the Labor government return to office, you know,
but was that an entirely positive step on climate policy.
I think that's debatable. One of the big criticisms nationally
(08:43):
of Antony Alberniesi's Labor government has been that they've been
too weak on implementing environmental policies. They came into the
last election, they campaigned in the last election with promises
to overhaul environmental legislation, to introduce a national Environment agency.
What we've seen in Western Australia is a lot of
(09:04):
pushback against any new burdens of regulation, not only from
the resources industry, but absolutely from companies developing new minds,
new gas export plans. Even companies who are looking to
establish new green manufacturing sites. What they don't want is
an additional burden of environmental legislation. And what we saw
(09:25):
in that Western Australia poll very successfully lobbied the local
the WA labor government to you not to back new restrictions.
So yeah, quite interesting in both cases to see how
that could inform the national debate and national policy.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And certainly what happens in the Hunter electorate. You know
in a couple of weeks time. Now you briefly touched
on targets earlier, David, I want to pick up on
that a little bit. Now. Australia is regarded, as you know,
somewhat of a global tess case for the energy transition,
and it does in turn attract investment and attention from
all over the place. Right, what is the actual status
(10:03):
of Australia's in a due transition? Are we actually on
track to hit targets to reduce greenhouse gases?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's one of those scenarios where you can probably make
an argument either way.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So I think the truth is it's debatable.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So whre missions in the year to last March were
they were about twenty eight point two percent below June
two thousand and five levels.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
That's the level that we're looking at.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's the baseline for the targets that the existing government
have outlined, and again that is to make a forty
three percent reduction by twenty thirty, so still somewhere to go.
The pace at which reductions are being made is, you know,
charitably about on track. I think realistically probably a little
too slow. And there are also other debates around what's
(10:51):
included and what's excluded.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
When you come to countermissions.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
You know, if we think about the policy settings, there's
a there's a nonprofit globally that sort of grade countries
climate policies and their targets Climate Action Tracker, and it
currently sees Australia's policy settings and Australia's targets as insufficient.
The one area that it identifies chiefly is there's a
lot of reliance on future technologies that are yet to
(11:16):
have been commercialized and developed, and not a lot of
policy on phasing out things like coll exports, gas exports,
the thing that are huge drivers of export earnings.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So it's a little bit chicken and egg like, we've
got to have the technology to do it, and we've
got to get the technology first and agree how we're
going to do that and also finance it. I think
one thing recently that's also been quite profound is the
responsibility for domestic policy most certainly, but also Australia's place
within the region. We had some quite pointed comments from
(11:51):
the President of Palao just this month on Australia as
a sort of a big brother of the Pacific, wanting
it to take more of a leadership role of this
topic in the region. Let's take a quick listen.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
We are part of the Pacific family. We need to
work together to solve problems. And it's not a joke.
Climate change is a reality and it's something that we
face every day and we need Australia's support and we're
ready to work with whoever is in government to tackle
these problems. And it's so important that the Australian people
(12:26):
understand that it's their leadership should take a leadership role
in the Pacific and work with us to meet the
challenges that we have ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
David, it is quite a tense time in the Pacific,
with China fighting for influence in the region. Is Australia
doing enough on climate change? To support its specific neighbors.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I think if you ask and we heard, of course
they're from power. If you ask a lot of Pacific nations,
the answer would be no. But then if we think
back to the time of the last election, at that moment,
Australia was regarded on the sort of international scene and
in terms of climate diplomacy as a complete outlier. Australia
(13:09):
had seeded, you know, a lot of its influence on
the global stage, and you know, the current government has
spent quite a lot of time trying to rebuild that
trust and trying to really reassert itself in just the
global process of supporting the International Approach to Climate Act.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
But you know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Specific nations clearly are in a tough spot. And I
think what we saw at the most recent global climate
talks in Azerbaijan last year was a continued sense of disappointment.
Developing countries came into that meeting asking rich countries for
you know, a commitment to direct about a trillion dollars,
you know, in climate financing to the emerging world. What
(13:52):
they got was a commitment for three hundred billion, so
a lot less than expected. Australia is one of those
developed nations that is being asked to do more, and
so you know, quite rightly, I think the Pacific.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Not only Australia, but Australia.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Because of its role in the region, they are asking
Australia to step up.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
When we come back, let's lens in and consider the
almighty dollar. How are investors in renewables approaching the election
and what do they want to see from Messrs Albinizi
and Dutton. You're listening to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast And
welcome back to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast. You're here with
(14:32):
me Rebecca Jones, and I'm talking all things climate with
Bloomberg's APEC, head of ESG and green coverage, my mate
David Stringer. David, let's talk about money. Has the ALP
seen an increase in investments in renewables over the last
three years and how are those investors approaching this election?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, there's nothing I like better than pulling up charts
of energy transition investment, you know, and taking a look
at what's actually happening on the ground, where is money flowing?
And I think if you ask most voters, I think
their assumption would be that under an Albanzy government, what
we would have seen is a continued flow of more investment.
(15:14):
In truth, that's not the case. If we look at
total energy transition investments, so that's the power system, that's
clean transport, you know, that's clear agriculture that actually fell
about five percent last year to just less than twenty
three billion. That's even though what we are seeing and
what we did see last year is a sort of
rebound in investment into renewables, into clean energy. We also
(15:38):
saw a little bit more spending on electrified transport, but
in total it fell again. And if we think the
total spending that our colleagues at Bloomberg NYF Research is,
they forecast that between now and twenty fifty, you know,
Australia is going to need to spend about two point
four trillion US dollars just on energy alone. How quickly
(16:01):
that investment ramps up is really crucial.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I want to talk to you about a national obsession. Well,
I mean, certainly to me it feels like it's a
bit of an obsession, and that is the adoption of solar,
something that's done quite well. How is that transforming the
country's energy system and is it a trend that we
think will continue in the same fashion.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I think if you talk to experts on energy markets,
it's hard. It's hard to overstate how transformative the adoption of.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Solar in Australia has been. If we think there's been enough.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Solar installed on rooftops across Australia to really account for
one in every three houses, astonishing way. And what's really
interesting is we're not necessarily talking about urban homes in
places like Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane to a large extent,
these are solar panels that have been installed in rural
(16:55):
community and in large numbers. So how's that changed the
energy sygnel quite radically. What it means is that right
now there's often an excess of power being generated during
the middle of the day the suns that it's height
when we're getting the most radiation on those panels, And
in a sense, the solar sector in Australia has kind
of been a victim of its own success. And in fact,
(17:17):
a colleagues that BNF their analysis tells them is that
for residential solace that we think adoption peaked in twenty
twenty one and as being in a slow decline since
then because rebates and incentives have come off, we've seen,
you know, the value of sending excess power to the
(17:37):
grid become lower and lower because basically, how is worthless
in the middle of the day now because there is
so much solar, there's so little demand, that the power
itself becomes cheaper. One of the proposals we've heard in
this campaign from Labor is a policy to subsidize household battery.
They want to see more people pair up their rooftop
(17:59):
solar systems with storage batteries. That allows people to use
it when it's needed, it sees less wastage, and you know,
that's a potential policy that could help to some degree
extend the solar book.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So I was right. Then, solar panels are everywhere and
we are obsessed with them. That is like a really
well known manifestation of renewable energy, right. You know, you
go to Waikia, you see the solar panels on the roof.
Go and have a look at my parents' beach house.
It's covered in them. David, what when we're thinking about
(18:32):
investments in renewables, certainly extending beyond solar panels, what other
things are we're needing investment in for one, and what
are some of the proposals that both of the parties
are putting forward in this campaign.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Well quiet, I mean, so if we think about rooftop solar,
you know, as a sector that added about three giga
what's last year, what's that? Well, that's sort of roughly
equivalent about three cold fired power stations.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
That's not enough.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
What we're really focused on is large scale renewables projects,
things with the sort of size and scale that can
actually help Australia replace those big fossil fuel sites. And
that requires a lot of investment, clearly, you know, and
as we said, it's been a very complex picture in
the past few years under the Albanese government.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
If we zero in on renewable energy investment.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
You can really see, even looking at a chart, you
can see when people talk about investor uncertainty and people
being worried about policy change, it's there in the sort
of it's there in a bar chut you can see,
you know, you can see investment yoe yeoing from year
to year. And so what we had was between sort
of twenty eighteen and twenty twenty one investment in these
(19:50):
large scale renewable projects really created, rebounded and then actually
fell sharply again twenty twenty three, rebounded last year, and
a lot of that is down to a policy the
Labor government brought in the Capacity Investment Scheme. Now it
sounds complicated, but you know, put very simply.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Kind of what it does. It sets a floor, a
revenue floor for a renewable project.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
The project earns less than expected, the government meets some
of the difference, and similarly there's like a revenue ceiling.
If it does better than expected, you're going to pay
some of that access right.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
It helps investors have.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Certainty when they're thinking about these multi billion dollar investment.
What's interesting is the Liberal parties plan for that scheme
is to add natural gas. That's opposed by Labor who
say that will deter the purpose of the scheme, which
is to encourage private investment in wind, in solar, in
renewable endings. So yeah, rooftops we're seeing potentially start to
(20:50):
peter out and sortlatter. What the real focus is, what's
the direction of those really big, large scale.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I want to ask you about another thing that Australians
love and that we think about all the time, and
that is driving our cars. Power isn't the only sector
crucial to Australia's decarbonization obviously, and we have moved on.
I like to think from Scott Morrison's famous claim that
electric vehicles are going to end the weekend. But is
(21:18):
there a consensus among the parties around phasing out gas
guzzling cars and utes. What does the data tell us?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know, Australia is still seen as something of a
laggard on adoption of electric vehicles, which kind of surprises
me in a way because and you know this as well.
Any time we're out on a street here in Melbourne,
the number of Tesla's increasingly, the number of BYD cars
that we see, never mind all of the other myriad
(21:49):
of electric models that are available. Now that anecdotal evidence
would seem to suggest that things are really taking off.
What the numbers tell us is that they're not. I
think there were just over around about one hundred and
fourteen thousands new electric vehicle sold last year compared to
about one hundred thousand in twenty twenty three, So an increase,
(22:11):
but not the kinds of dramatic jumps we're seeing in
other jurisdictions.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Part of that is policy.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And what we're seeing in this election, although it hasn't
featured massively, what we've seen from the Liberal Party is
an indication that they would effectively sort of weaken the
New Vehicle Efficiency that's a set of policies that helps
encourage adoption of lower missions, cleaner, more efficient vehicle. The
(22:39):
concern from advocates of evs is that by weakening that
kind of policy you effectively open the Australian market up
for foreign automakers to dump their dirtier, less efficient cars
in this much rather than foster courage or evs to
be sold.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So we have two major parties aligned on the fact
that we need to move to net zero, but with
different ideas on how to get there. Our position in
the Pacific, as let's face it, the biggest player, is
under even more scrutiny from our smaller neighbors, and the
way we get investment in renewables is something both parties
disagree on. The Libs on one side want to include
(23:18):
natural gas in the investment scheme. Labor says you are
missing the point. So who said climate wasn't on the agenda?
David Stringer, thanks for your time today.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Thanks great to be a Headbick.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And thank you for listening to the Bloomberg Australia podcast.
I'm Rebecca Jones. This episode was recorded on the traditional
lands of the wil Wandery people of the Coola Nation.
It was produced by Paul Allen and edited by Ainsley
Chandler and Chris Burke. Don't forget to follow and review
the show wherever you get your podcasts, and sign up
for Bloomberg's free daily newsletter, Australia Briefing. Go to Bloomberg
(23:53):
dot com to subscribe.
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