The Buzz | Emma Lovell - The Buzz with Karyn Harte

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Emma Lovell believes in you. This incredible ray of sunshine
is about to shower us with positive energy, motivation and
some pretty amazing advice. A business owner, Mum PR and
marketing expert, podcaster coach and, above all, a passionate world Traveller.
How do you have it all? Well, em thinks you can.

(00:26):
And let's find out how, as we welcome Emma Lovell
to the buzz.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Thank you. That's the, um, one of the loveliest intros
I've ever had on Brand.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
So going back to uni Emma, you studied PR and communications,
didn't you? And where did that come from?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh, well, I started. I was at UTS in Sydney,
so I actually wanted to do a bachelor of business
majoring in international studies. I really wanted to do some
time overseas travel. Um, so I'd spent a year doing
a gap year before between uni and school. So I
really wanted to learn a language, spend time in a
country I'd chosen, um, Spain. So I had that as

(01:10):
my idea.
And then I actually did get into the degree, um,
and then realised I don't really want to spend five
years at uni because it's three year degree and then
you do a year overseas, and you still gotta come back.
You gotta do a double degree when there was actually
exchange on offer. So I decided to just pursue the
bachelor of business and do an exchange semester at some

(01:31):
point throughout my degree. And then I really thought I
wanted to do advertising. Even from when I was 16,
I went and did a,
uh, work experience at Singleton Ogilvie and mothers. I don't
know why. I just really thought I liked advertising. And
then when I did the advertising subject, it wasn't my favourite.
I actually felt more drawn to the marketing subjects and

(01:51):
then when we had to choose So our first year,
you do the eight subjects across the business, you know, curriculum.
And then the next you have to choose your focus.
So I chose marketing, and then I chose my other focus.
I went to the communications faculty of PR.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
What was it that drew you to that

Speaker 2 (02:07):
specialty? Well, you know, I think people who know me
now know that I just I like the promotion element.
You know, I like the messaging element. I like the
sharing of the message I like communication. I like the exchange.
And
when I heard that PR was, like a two way communication,
which it is, but I feel like social media. Then
it even took that even further. Yeah, yeah, you know,

(02:30):
And funnily enough, that sort of developed as I was
at uni, that kind of really became a a bigger thing.
They didn't teach us then.
But, you know, I really enjoyed that being able to communicate,
whereas advertising is very one sided. And also we had
to do, like, a 90 page thing, like, you know,
it's just, um Yeah, I wanted that I. I like

(02:50):
the the connection. I like it to the human element

Speaker 1 (02:53):
That makes perfect sense in marketing now. Yeah, I

Speaker 2 (02:55):
like the psychology of marketing. I liked understanding consumer behaviour
like consumer behaviour was a subject. I really, really it
just kind of led towards the people and I had
done promotions.
Um, I was a promo girl. I started promo in, um,
when I was 1819 for, you know, my job, I guess.
Casual job. And so I was quite used to taking

(03:17):
on the messaging of a company. We'd work with Optus
the energy drinks Telstra Coles, like big brands and they
give us their key messaging.
And then we had to go out and communicate that
as brand ambassadors. Yes. Yes. And I really loved that
promotion piece. It was a lot more fun. That's the
fun bit being out there on the street with the

(03:38):
consumers spreading

Speaker 1 (03:39):
the good word. I love it. So you're coming to
the end of your degree. What kind of jobs were
sort of were you leaning towards that Were jumping out
at you?

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Uh, well, there were PR jobs, and a few of
my friends had gone and done sort of internships. But
I was really leaning towards running my own business.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
OK? So even then, where do you think that came from?
I

Speaker 2 (04:00):
just I don't know, ignorance. Did you? I could just
I could

Speaker 1 (04:04):
do it. Yeah, but like, where did that come from?
Like Did Was Were your parents self employed? Is there
any sort of mentors or people that you looked up
to at that age that were self-employed?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
No, no, I'm shaking my head. Yeah, you know, forget
these things of podcast. Um, I gesture a lot too,
but No, no, I don't know where it came from. Honestly,
it just was there

Speaker 1 (04:26):
you had to do. I just

Speaker 2 (04:27):
was like, I could just run a business. I was,
I guess maybe from the promotions work, you essentially are
your own agent.
So you work for different, um, agencies, but you have
an ABN, and you have to basically manage your own.
So I was, like, essentially freelancing already there. You're,

Speaker 1 (04:44):
like, contracting back to the company.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah. So? And you'd have to apply for the role
and then or be accepted. I say, you know, are
you available for these dates? Are you the right fit?
And so then I had, um I'd taken on a
marketing junior role. Well, actually, I'd taken on an office
junior role with my dad, the organisation my dad worked for.
He's the CEO of a freight forwarding organisation. And then,
as I learned things, I was like, Oh, I'm learning

(05:07):
this thing in my marketing degree.
Maybe you could implement that. So then I ended up
getting getting this marketing PR title because of what I
was doing there and helping I would go with him
to international conferences, which I started going to when I
was 17, just with him as his daughter.
But I started going as because I understood how it
worked to help him facilitate the meeting. So

Speaker 1 (05:29):
that was kind of your first job before you went
on your own or were you doing this at the
same time?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
It was all through uni. So I mean, I. I
just feel like I've never really I mean, one step
back when I was on my Gap year, I did, um,
through a recruitment company. I got office jobs and one
of those was gumtree. And in that role, I was
customer service. Yeah. So the gumtree, which is huge now,
At the time, it was a tiny little section of eBay. Um,

(05:56):
we were in the eBay building in London, but I
just
I could have stayed. I could have they would have
would have wanted me to stay, but I wanted to
get my business degree, and I wanted to interupt as
a higher level. But then I guess as I learned
more about PR and coms and maybe because some of
the internships my friends were doing I was like, Well,
they just have clients, right? So why can't I just
have clients and just work directly with them?

Speaker 1 (06:19):
And so, how old were you at this point? Like 22. Ok.
And who was your Do you remember your first

Speaker 2 (06:25):
client? Well, it was the dad my dad's organisation called
a so Australian Federation of International Freight forwarders. So I
went to them and said, You pay me as an employee.
Can I just invoice you instead? Because I was always
I was invoicing through promo, so I knew how to
do that. Oh,

Speaker 1 (06:42):
so that's a really lovely first, actually,
isn't it? As a first client, it's a really, I
believe first, I was just gonna say it's a great
recommendation for those people who are keen to get started,
but really a little bit, you know, just turn it around.
Can you actually put me, um, as a subcontractor? Yeah.
I'll invoice you instead of being on your payroll. And

(07:03):
it's a win win for them. Because if they got
the yeah, all the benefits. So yeah, nice.
And, you know, we often talk about flow and finding
that in work when you went out on your own,
did you feel that flow. It's like, Yes, this is
where I'm at. I'm loving it.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, no, because when I did that, the the actual
time I don't know, I felt like I was very
behind the eight ball, even though, you know, in hindsight,
I was in my third year of uni, but I
was like, 00, you know, I'm so late to this. Wow. Oh, gosh. Um, well,
I guess it felt like I. I cram a lot
into a very short amount of time. So when you're
at uni, you know, I'm doing I was I ended

(07:42):
up working for the union as well. The US union
helped create a volunteer programme for them. So basically created
a a promo,
you know, agency within the union to get help, like
staff in, uh, and and did ran promotions for them
within uni. So I guess I was already sort of
doing these things naturally. But then what happened was I.

(08:03):
I broke my back snowboarding, so I had to drop.
I didn't have to, but I chose to drop one
subject that I wasn't loving anyway, and so I just
went Well, if I'm gonna have to do another semester
because I'm not gonna get to finish that one.
I may as well drop another one. And I'll just
do two. Because that's probably all I can cope with.
Obviously couldn't work. And it just gave me the time

(08:25):
and space to go. Oh, yeah, I can actually set
the business up. So, like,

Speaker 1 (08:29):
so Were you living at home at this point? Yeah,
I was living with my

Speaker 2 (08:32):
dad. Yeah, so just, um, got I had the ABN.
So I just bought the business name. Lovely communications, uh,
set up my blog, uh, and set up a Twitter
account and just was, like,
open for business.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Right. So did you do any sort of marketing? Like,
did you have a business plan and a bit of
a marketing strategy for setting up your business? She's laughing.
I don't think that she did.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
And I, I laugh. Only because I did. You did.
But you know, it's funny is when you work, you know,
do these at uni. You do APR plan. They're very deep.
They make you do them very in depth and detailed.
And then when you actually work with a client,
they don't want that much, you know, And I. I
had a really great mentor. Actually, he was the CEO

(09:18):
of nudie juice. Nudie was this thing. Um, so I
did a bit of I don't even know how I
met him, but I did a bit of promo. Maybe
because I did some promo for them, and they liked me.
So they got me in direct, so we used to
drive around to the beaches and hand out free juice.
Really fun. Um, but then he they started another company,
him and two other partners.

(09:38):
And I became the director of that. So not the thing.
And he was so great because I'd present my marketing plan,
which was, you know, reams of paper. And he's like, How?
That's great. You've done so much work. Yes. Can you
give it to me in five slides? And because he's
from that, like, really fast paced. And he was very,
uh, outside the box. Um, So

Speaker 1 (10:00):
and I think that's also the two. Yes, that, but
and also the fact that in real bus in business life,
some of that theory, you know, application, it just isn't relevant.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
No. No. So, yeah, I made myself one, And I did, actually,
it's funny when I think that because I hear people
who are starting business now, I did actually go for like, um,
New South Wales government did have, like a small business.
Some like seminars and things. I did go to little
things like that when I was starting, but
I guess I had such a a fantastic playground in that,
working with my dad's organisation, I had a lot of

(10:31):
the role was created from what I was learning so
I could do what I wanted in that role. And
then I would meet someone, and, uh, this is, I guess,
where my networking and my gift of the gab comes in.
I just would tell them I'm running a business and
I learned that networking skill from my parents. They know everyone.
They're always socialising, and
just that not what you know. It's who you know.

(10:53):
I knew that early on, so I would just talk
to people about what I was doing, and they'd kind
of give me a go, and then you just test it.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
So
going back to you know, we just talking about planning
as well. I you know, I like to ask my
marketing skewed guest this question because there are a couple
of schools, you know, I thought, you know. So So really, um,
carrying on from what we were saying, Say something,
just jump in and and work it out. And if
you wait for everything to align with the plan and strategy,

(11:22):
you're going to be waiting forever. Um, whereas others say
that kind of planning and strategy work is, you know, essential.
What is your advice to start up working through those
various stages?

Speaker 2 (11:33):
I think it's always gonna be start like I think
some of the best businesses are, like they called, like
the back of a napkin, you know, or for me
to be like on a plane. I just get out My,
you know where there's no Internet, my laptop's dead. Just
grab a pen and paper, and I write down whatever
I'm thinking. So you do have a plan. You've written
down some points. I just don't think you need to
go and make a 20 page document and present that

(11:56):
to the bank or something like that.
So I think you have to in the best laid plans.
If you don't actually start them and trial them and
test them. And And you and I both know this.
Sometimes you start doing something and then you actually don't
like it. You don't enjoy it. So you don't want
to go out and invest in all this setup without
even testing if it's gonna work. So I think

(12:16):
I think, you know, sort of jot down, make a very,
very rough idea, but then refine as you go. And
I don't think you you always want to have that
as a living document. It's not a set in place.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's a work in progress and

Speaker 2 (12:28):
and if you can understand that But I think I
think also understanding where people are coming out from different.
You know, I started when I was 22. I literally
I had the gift of ignorance. I didn't know any better,
and I definitely didn't have the financial backing. Whereas I
see some businesses and I think it's
cool and lovely and wonderful that they've got the financial
back and they've left corporate say they want to start

(12:51):
an econ business or a service based business. And then
they set themselves up right? You know I run these
personal brand photoshoots. They come and they get the photos
they pay for the visual branding. They get the website done.
They'll
might pay someone to help them do a plan. And
they have all this outlay and they come out looking,
you know, sort of gun blazing. But then, as I said,
you could then go out and test that to the market.

(13:12):
Nobody wants it. And you've just invested and you've started
off with this great foundation, but people don't want it.
So So

Speaker 1 (13:20):
small steps loose, So loose planning small steps and test
the market.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah,
yeah. And it is something to be said for starting
a little bit Scrappy, like you don't want to be scruffy,
but it's kind of cool doing that. Like, you know,
hearing those businesses you started in the back shed your
mom's garage, you know, I mean, hello, Apple and then
went from there. And I think there's some
I don't know. I think that's a fun part of

(13:47):
my journey. Like I have definitely tried everything. I have
definitely earned my stripes. I have gone up, but I
had to get to a point. I think I just
wish I probably didn't wait quite so long. It took me, like,
10 years to I feel, like, really invest in myself.
I really did that feast or famine, Freelance contractor
life and and also a lot of con because of

(14:09):
my network. A lot of contra a lot of, um,
you know, things done for me that I didn't have
to pay for, which is fantastic. And I gave my services,
but I did get to a point where I went
I want to be taken seriously. I wanna be charging
the big bucks. I'm asking people to invest in me.
I've got to invest in in the business and in myself.
So I wish maybe I just didn't wait quite so
long for

Speaker 1 (14:29):
that. But then that's all you know. Like that's tricky
with the hindsight question, right? You needed to do
what you needed to do to get where you are today.
So I'm

Speaker 2 (14:38):
also I'm 36. I was a little baby when I started.
Like I'm

Speaker 1 (14:41):
very Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's just my goodness. OK, so
in those early days of lovely communications, what were your
measures of success?

Speaker 2 (14:53):
I just I don't think I had any, I think
just getting through the day, getting a client and making money. But,
you know, we did talk about travel. Honestly, my goals
were travel, so I was like, I'm gonna go on
that trip. I've got to have this much money by
then sort of thing. Or, um, you know, I had
a personal I got a loan for a car, and
then I sort of added to that when I did

(15:13):
do my overseas exchange. So then it was, like, pay
off that personal loan.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
So I guess they were monetary focused in those early days. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (15:21):
and I didn't Really,
I think I just enjoyed I still I still kept
my foot, um, in that promo world for quite a while,
which was great for contacts and networking as well. And
then I started to do a little bit of contracting. Um,
so I didn't really you know. And this is the
part of my journey that I used to share it
like I didn't really define my audience. I didn't define

(15:41):
my audience for 10 years. If you wanted. If you
came to me and you would have work done? Sure.
So a lot of subcontracting, Um,
a lot of Yeah, I don't know. Just having contract
and work that I knew was consistent that I could access,
but really no business direction.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Just so it sounds like more on the sort of
reactive than the than the proactive
of things. Yeah. And we're gonna talk about where your
business is now down the track. But, you know, obviously,
over a lot of years, you know, we talk about
them potentially. So you so your measures of success in
those early years kind of monetary and getting the kind

(16:20):
of lifestyle that you want. How did that change as
your business grew? I mean, you know, um, 14 years later,
uh, what would you say? Your measures of success within
lovely communications have been in the last 12 months. Ha, ha.
Have they changed?

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, but now it's now about it's about time, and
it's about using my time wisely because I have a
little boy now. So my son Finn is 2.5. He
was born in start of 2021
and time just became my most precious. Um, you know,
resource or commodity or currency everything. Whereas when you know

(16:59):
five years ago, I could just work till midnight or
get up at six and finish client work or sure,
eight clients come to me one day and want different work,
I'll just take it all on and figure it out. Um,
I do not have that
that luxury. Yeah, actually. And you know, I don't want
to

Speaker 1 (17:15):
luxury, though, too. Yeah, I guess you're more discerning now
about where you want to spend your time. So then,
as far as a measure of success goes, it's more
about

Speaker 2 (17:27):
yeah, time. It's I I want to having that time
someone gave me a mantra recently was like double the
income in half the time and I'm like, Yes, and
the first year I had my son, I was really
happy with the amount of time I was spending in
the business, but I would
not the income. So it was like not that I was.
I was like, It's a huge change. It's such a

(17:48):
big year. But I was like, I feel like I
don't have to work anymore. I think let's keep the
time the same, but let's be more productive or smarter
about how I generate income in the time that I have.
And so that's become the measure. And it's like, How
can I? You know, our our lovely friends are three
PS like we talked about on one of my trips.

(18:10):
I made it and I don't know,
sort of $1000 passive. Not really passive, but someone booked
something that I had already created. I did nothing toward.
They just paid. So it was like, Next trip. Let's
make it that I get $5000 while away Next trip.
Let's make it that I get $10,000. You know, like,
How can I just set this up so that I
can be just generating income without having to actually sit

(18:31):
for 12 hours at my computer? So it's more like that.
That's like, gamifying

Speaker 1 (18:36):
it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the secret, right?
We talk a lot about self belief here at the buzz,
and I know sometimes we carry the opinions and expectations
of our parents right. Even as fully grown adults, there
is programmed response that
you know we have, and it often goes against our own,
you know, internal core or inner belief system and you

(18:59):
and I have spoken, you know, before about parental responses.
And sometimes they just don't actually even get what You know,
what we we do and what success looks like for us.
They just can't get it. And it can sometimes be
a bit harsh. How do you manage that and not
let it get to

Speaker 2 (19:17):
you?
I mean, sometimes it does. Um, and I've got an
added mix now of having another set of parents in
that I have my in-laws as well. And so and
I'm now a parent myself, and and that provide a
role and all that stuff. Um, I think I think
the hard thing is where that our parents only really
see the tangible successes. So I won an award, a

(19:41):
business award. They obviously understand that it's a big gift,
or I publish an article for Virgin Australia.
You know, Emma wrote an article. It's very evident, but
when a lot of my work was social media for
a client which doesn't have my name on the door, like,
you know, you do a lot of behind the scenes
stuff they can't tell. So, uh or copywriting literally. I've

(20:04):
written the entire website. I've written all of these articles,
but my name's not on it.
So they can't quite grasp how I'm involved or, you know,
it's That's what's been really nice about having meeting people
through these business communities and networks that I'm in because
they get it and they get the little wins. Like
the I didn't stay up till midnight and oh, I

(20:25):
finished that client project, you know? Yes, like they can
celebrate those things. So I think,
yeah, I think whether her parents come in, they can
see the obvious wins and successes and they just don't
really know how to support you when
And I think the answer tends to be get a
job and that

Speaker 1 (20:44):
when they see you upset because But you're just upset
because you're frustrated and you've got to find a way
around a certain challenge. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (20:52):
yeah, So I think to get a job or
and and like Covid was in this respect was great
for me because it was like no one has job security. No. One,
and actually, the people who were better set up were
people like me who have ridden the roller coaster of
small business freelancing, churning tricks pivoting constantly. We were the

(21:14):
ones who rode that wave the best we were the
ones who were already set up with all our kit
at home,
you know? So it was like, No, like the thing
that you've been saying all along, like And I You know,
it's not like I bought a house. I bought an
investment property on my own, um, seven years ago, you know,
whilst running my business like I'm so proud of that

Speaker 1 (21:35):
absolutely 100%.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
I just think sometimes it's like like my dad really understood.
I did a contract with World Vision and I feel
like and even though we used to work together, he's
seen me. And actually, you know, I'm I'm what I do.
But I think the whole client work running my own
business thing. Whereas when I was in a role with
World Vision Australia, I was in a contract role with
Cure Brains and Cancer Foundation. It was very easy to go. Oh,
Emma's doing this marketing role, or Emma's doing this PR role,

(22:01):
and I think my in-laws have a similar view. Sometimes, like,
don't know, understand the business world,
don't understand the small business world, and it can be frustrating.
And And I feel like sometimes, yeah, that I don't know,
not taking interest or not. Um, just not respecting

(22:22):
what I do and that it's basically a 24 7
job as opposed to my husband, who has a very
obvious job at Sea world. Yeah, he's a diver, you know. Yeah. Yeah,
we can see what he does.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, clearly. So how do you How do you manage that?
Do you sort of steer away from those conversations? Do
you focus on the positive, like, what are some of the,
you know, things that that you do to minimise that
impact on yourself?

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I think, yeah, there's times I think it's just being
selective about who are your cheerleaders and which stories you tell. So,
being discerning about which Yeah, which people you go to
for which things. So I probably do go to them
for more the celebration or sometimes I just let you
know we're all on social media. I just let my

(23:07):
social media speak. And if they come and ask me
about it, then I go for it. But I, I
do bring up
if I feel like there'll be times where maybe I'm
just feeling a bit more delicate and I'll say like
it would be really nice If and I would probably
do it by my husband, It would be really nice
if you'd sort of take an interest in something like
I'm actually doing really great. Yeah, it I'm actually doing

(23:27):
some really awesome stuff, or like or on the other flat.
I'll say, I don't think you understand quite
the pressure and the challenges that I'm facing and, you know,
you see me just sitting here on my phone. I'm
not on my phone, I'm working. I'm There's a lot
I'm trying to coordinate here whilst also being a mom
and being a wife and being a human.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, it's tough.
So as a personal brand specialist where you know, you've
coached for 14 years under lovely communications, what do you say?
What would you say has been the most common? Why,
as to clients seeking out your support.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
So I shifted to the personal brand at my 10
year mark, Um, and for me, the the common Why,
why they want to run a business or why? Why
are they coming to you, or why are they coming
to me? Because,
uh, because they've lost
their identity, Really? They've lost connection of to themselves. They

(24:30):
don't know, you know. You ask them what they want.
What do you want? What are your goals? What are
you working towards? Why? Why are you doing this? And
they might not get an answer. They just got stuck.
And why do you think

Speaker 1 (24:42):
that is?

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Because when we you know I love watching my son.
Right now, he's at the most pure form he'll ever be.
And maybe a few more years of that before people
start telling him how he's gonna be meant to behave
and what what this looks like. So I think
as you get older, you get told what a certain
role should look like in life and what a role

(25:06):
in a job should look like. And you carry all
these different roles and titles. And so you just end
up getting piled and piled and layered on you. And so,
of course, you lose who you are.
And then also you attach so much to that role
that if you're no longer in that role, so if
I work with you, your identity? Yeah. Then the role
becomes the identity. So if you were, you know, whether
it be a job or a marriage or a country.

(25:29):
I had a client who moved country, and it just
stripped everything that she knew like that her location and
her ability to travel, uh, from that location within, like,
two other places was part of her identity. So all
that was taken away.
And that's when people are coming to meet me.
Which stretches.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
It stretches so much beyond business, doesn't it? Like a
business is just another layer, you know, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, OK. And, um,
out of that group, what would be the common sort
of personal key characteristic that these these people have?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Well, I'd say it's that they're lacking and they're lacking confidence.
They just confidence is gone, and they might not identify that.
So I found that sometimes when I was starting,
people don't want to be told they're not confident. And
so then I probably, um, would talk more to being
overwhelmed and not knowing what to do next and feeling

(26:30):
uncertain and feeling unsure and not backing yourself. Absolutely. I
had to

Speaker 1 (26:36):
use term so on point, because I know for me
seeking your support, I was looking for confidence outright. I know.
I was looking for confidence. I even think I said
to you at one point I just want some confidence,
which obviously I had to find myself.
Um, no one can give me that, but I was
very much standing in my own way at the end
of the day. So I guess you know, what's your

(26:58):
advice for people who are standing in their own way?

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Well, you've got to seek support. You just you can't.
You know, you're trying to do it alone. It's so
hard you can't see yourself like I just provide. I talked.
I did an analogy like, someone actually gave me the
analogy and I loved it, but it was I'm like
the mirror. But the mirror, when you come to me,
is dirty, and you just can't see yourself clearly and
you can't see what I see. I see this wonderful

(27:22):
person and I'm hearing and I get the privilege of
getting doing a brand audit. So looking back at, you
know what's out there about them and asking them to
do a questionnaire and I'd get them to dig back.
And they're sort of like, What's the point of this?
And it's like, I wanna know You know what? What's
been your journey to get you so it this far
And they just have forgotten all these wonderful things they've
done because they're focusing on right now. And right now

(27:43):
I don't feel good. And right now I feel like
I'm not achieving.
And right now I'm not where I want to be
to try and do that work yourself. And I know
because doing it myself is really hard. I have to
call upon other people with, um, coaching or branding or
marketing expertise to do it because I just can't see
what you see. So I basically act as like the

(28:06):
cloth almost to clean the mirror for them so that
they can see themselves.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, that is a really wonderful analogy.
And I think a really great starting, you know, point
for me was an exercise you told me to do
is go away to my client. You know, clients and
all the ones you can chat to, um and just
ask them three of the three things that they think about,
You know, they think of you When
three. What was the three describing words that they think

(28:33):
of when they think of you and I was blown away?
I think that's a really lovely exercise as a starting point.
If you're really in, you know, in those depths, and
you and you might not necessarily be able to, you know,
engage some professional support.
Um, whether that you know be, you know, time or
or money being your you know, stumbling block. At that point,

(28:55):
it's a really good idea to go to your your
client's evidence,

Speaker 2 (28:59):
right? It's like

Speaker 1 (29:00):
kind of support in yeah, getting an understanding, Absolutely. It's
data well, and

Speaker 2 (29:04):
people, I think they're so afraid to do that, too.
I'm so afraid, and I get two different people. There's
the people who
think they're going out there and saying all this stuff
and doing all this stuff, and people just know them
or know what they do. Um, when actually that that
people aren't really receiving them the same way that they think.
And then there's the other side, which is like everybody

(29:25):
out there thinks you're awesome, totally gets it,
but you don't. And so why would they believe the story? Well,
they're not. You're not telling the story. You're not saying
the words. How can they believe that? And why would
they believe that if you don't believe it? And so
sometimes it is. Your personal brand is, um, how you
see yourself and how others see you. It's the combination.

(29:46):
So beautiful. It is that alignment
of being that if I'm saying I'm passionate, professional and lovely,
you're going Yes, that's exactly what I think when I
think of you or your variation of those words. And
I saw some clients, sometimes it was, you know, a
little bit heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time.
They would bring back their words and I'd go. These

(30:07):
are lovely words. And they're like I was like, Do
you believe them? They go, Yeah, yeah, that's nice. And
I go OK, say them. I am fun. I am beautiful.
I am creative. I am intelligent
and they would cry. I couldn't say I am this
and I was like, That's the work we have to
do that you believe what these people I got paper

(30:29):
evidence have said about you like it's out there. It's
just you're you're not believing it. So you're not stepping
into the version that they see. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (30:37):
yeah, yeah. You're standing in your own way.
Hm? Great tips there.
OK, so when you reflect on your time in lovely
communications helping all of these people, what would you say
has been your biggest challenge?

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Hm?
I guess I'm I reflected on this a lot lately, Um,
reading a fabulous book called Six Figures in School Hours
by Kate Toon. But it really validated my journey was
that whole feast or famine thing.
And it's something I talk a lot about is like
getting that consistency. And I think just trying to find
what that consistency looks like so that there's a financial

(31:15):
feast or famine. But there's a client feast or famine,
and there's a energy feast or famine and and marketing
like So when I say feast or famine, I mean,
there's all or nothing

Speaker 1 (31:24):
kind of thing. Yeah, I hear you. You you

Speaker 2 (31:26):
know, you get all the money and then three months
of no money and then so you go and you
have to get all the work and then you get
no work like trying to find what a consistent cash flow,
a consistent client base,
consistent energy. I think energy has been my hardest thing
over the last two years with not only having a
toddler but having a lot of grief in my life

(31:47):
as well. I just finding that energy to be able
to sustain the work and to keep delivering. And it's
like what does then
consistency and showing up and delivery look like for me.
And I think that, you know, it's hard because it's
changed and what I could do 10 years ago or

(32:07):
was willing to do 10 years ago. I'm not willing
to do now. Um, you know, then you've got outside,
you know, state of market changes and, you know, world changes.
I don't know, but just
yeah, and I think, accepting that there's never going to
be like a balance. I don't even like the word
balance anymore.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Integration,

Speaker 2 (32:23):
integration or harmony like how do I find harmony of
how things can work together and what does that you know?
How can I be in flow or accept the times?
I think it's some acceptance, and like I said, that
saying that so many people go through that journey really
validated it for me because I felt like some shame
around that. Like, why can't I figure this out? Why

(32:44):
can't I and then you talk to someone? We talked
to someone last night for a $200 million business, so
we got cash flow problems. It's like, Can we just
remove and

Speaker 1 (32:53):
we grow it? Yeah, yeah. So it's like, Yeah,

Speaker 2 (32:57):
let's just have a kind of a little bit of
more kindness around that journey,
particularly to ourselves, to ourselves and and to others, I
find sometimes you're talking to people and you're trying to
open up. You're trying to share about where you're at.
Why didn't you do this? Or you could do that?
You should do that, mate. Right now I'm struggling, and

(33:18):
I would kindly say to some people what I have learned,
probably in the last four years. And I think moving
to the Gold Coast really helped this, like just accepting
the seasons, and that sometimes there's a quieter season, and
I used to really
try and hustle over kind of Dec December Jan. Instead
of just accepting that in marketing That is a quiet
period generally. But in the last two years, my quiet

(33:41):
seasons have shifted. So I now have a more awareness.
And I go, huh? It's just May is a quiet
month for me. OK, well, enjoy the quietness, because I
know that September. I've told you today. August, September, October.
I'm mental. So I need to store up my energy
then
so that I can have these few big months, but
then go. OK? Well, November needs to be quiet because

(34:02):
I'm going to be exhausted. It's

Speaker 1 (34:04):
like, Yeah, so I guess the answer to that. Like
how you've worked through that challenge of, you know, feast
of famine. It sounds like, um a lot of, you know,
self-awareness acceptance.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, leaning into it. And then, um
I guess, Yeah, just like finding ways to accept support sometimes, too,
I think again, I had some shame around that, and
it's like I do have a wonderful husband. So leaning
into that and asking for more support around things or
going to my network and going Look, things aren't great
right now, like I need your help to pull some

(34:40):
stuff in or

Speaker 1 (34:41):
and people want help And I think that's what people
lose track of. You think you're losing face or you
think it's gonna, you know, affect your reputation or blah blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, we can think of a million reasons why not.
But, you know, I think we need to just focus
on the W and the value. And at the end
of the day, people want to help people

Speaker 2 (35:03):
that they know how to help. And if they if
there's a specific ask Oh, they love it. So, you know,
you ask them, can you introduce me to this person? Yeah.
I really would love to get this one thing out
right now. Sure. Oh, of course. And just because I'm
sure you would be willing to do the same one

Speaker 1 (35:20):
100%.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah. You would hate to see someone else struggling, but
if they don't tell you they're struggling and you don't know,
And I think one of the challenges I face when
I talked to Jade, um, my photographer friend yesterday about
it is that we look, because we we have a
very strong presence online. We look busy and we are.
We're showing them we're doing a lot of things. Income

(35:42):
doesn't always reflect that. And so it's like, Well, how
do I show
you have to show that you're active again, finding that, like,
what does, Like I have to show that I'm active,
but also still being here saying, But I have space
to work with you, too.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
You're not too busy for you

Speaker 2 (36:00):
like you're just killing it. You don't need me. And
I like. Yeah, well, no I. I really like you.
So it's like that part of that messaging point of like, Yeah,
I'm Yeah, I've got all these things going on, but
come on in. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Join it. Join Join the activity. Join the growth. Join
the You know, Joy. Yeah, 100%.
So then if we talk about, you know, we've talked about,
you know, reflecting on that time and and identifying your
biggest challenge. What if we, you know, reflect on that
time and we actually think about what was your greatest achievement?

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Oh, yeah. I think it was funny. I did a
podcast and one of them was like, Can you? I
was hoping you'd say that. I don't know. I think
I honestly felt when I got pregnant. I was so
worried that I was gonna lose my business. Not I
just didn't know how it's gonna continue.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
How am I gonna do this?

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Because And I'd said I reflect on this quite a bit.
I'm in a diff. I think I'm in, in some ways,
a unique position because I do find that a lot
of the people I've known have started the business after
Children or because of Children, or, you know, they've had
that corporate career and then start a business. Well, no, my, my.
And you're not supposed to say this, apparently, but, um,

(37:11):
my baby was my business for 12 years, you know?
And then yeah,

Speaker 1 (37:18):
no. And I think I think, yeah, you should be
OK to say that like, I started my business, you know,
as a result of having my kids. And, um, it's
like a third child.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
You have to nurture it. You have to you have
to nurture it. It's a massive part of your life.
And I'm very proud of it and seeing it grow.
And
And so then, even though I wanted to be a mom,
I wanted to have a son I wanted to have
a family. So more so than wanting to be a mom.
I wanted to have a family, and we planned it.
And the reality of being pregnant, I was like, Oh,

(37:52):
my God, all this fear setting. And so I just
didn't know how to cope. I ended up coping brilliantly. Um,
my son is
a treasure. He's a delight.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
He's divine. I think most of Australia who follow you
and beyond are all saying how beautiful that young

Speaker 2 (38:10):
man is. And I don't just know that he is.
He is fabulous. I really lucked out. Um, how wonderful
he is. So I have been able to manage. Um,
but yeah, I'm really proud of myself for this
adapting. And when you have a, um, the child, you
do the nesting of the home. I did the nesting
of the business. So I'm really proud of myself that

(38:31):
I really like, looked at that and did have that
foresight and future projection of And I think then, you know,
I did get a whole new sense of purpose and
a sense of direction. And I think I've been the
most you know, not that I was ever direction less,
But I was I've been so much more focused because
it's like it's not just about me anymore. It's even

(38:53):
though I've been married. It was like it's about our family.
I want that home that we will live in. I
want to take adventures together. I want
to be able to have time with him and not
be like, trying to just, you know, fight with the
phone and him and, you know, so I'm much clearer.
And so I think, yeah, I'm really proud of how

(39:13):
I've adapted and, you know, honestly, you know, I just
had my best revenue year ever. So

Speaker 1 (39:18):
congratulations. How do you celebrate

Speaker 2 (39:21):
that? Um,
yeah, I think I'll I'll do something. Um, I actually
want to buy a purse. So maybe I was like,
I'll need a reason. I'll go buy that. Because I
need my wallet, bro. I will buy a new wallet, but, um,
it could be my new wallet, But I, I don't
I'm saying it. I'm not a big one for talking
about your figures and all that, but I'm like it
was such a realisation that it was the because I've
had good income years. But that was always tied in

(39:44):
with my sole trader Freelance. I was like, No, this
is the business income And that was It's

Speaker 1 (39:49):
pretty amazing, isn't it? When you look at your profit
and loss, too, like you're looking at it and at
it and you were with the

Speaker 2 (39:55):
freelance and I've just done a lot of financial education
like really just got very, very serious, Um, like, and
I think freelance sole trade isn't such a great way
to run, and there's a lot of freedom in that.
But then when you know I needed,
you know, when it became about my family and it
became about more than me and wanting to have an
impact as well, really viewing like, Oh, what is this

(40:18):
business doing? It's a

Speaker 1 (40:19):
real maturity and the growth, you know, which. I guess,
you know, from your twenties into your thirties that that's
gonna happen. So and actually on celebrations, I really love
your reward system. I know as a business owner, it
can often feel at times like you are slogging it
out and not necessarily seeing
you know, a lot of wins which we know can

(40:40):
be extremely demotivating. I would love for you to share
with our listeners a great way to turn that around.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, I loved that. That was at the end. It
was in our retreat and it was kind of an
informal discussion which I would really make a sort of
an exercise that I do with my clients because I
didn't realise. I don't think I realised it was something
that people don't. I know people don't do it, but, like,
really don't
buy things. People just don't. You always gotta have a reason.
And I still have to shake myself out of that. Like,

(41:08):
what's the reason I can buy this dress? You know
what's the like? Not just because I need clothes. I'm
like I have to have a, you know, justification. So anyway,
I just started making a reward list, So I have
it in my phone generally, but it's it's kind of
a bit of manifesting as well. But I, I tie
it to things. So if I get,
uh, another the next client I get, you know, the

(41:29):
next full programme client I get, I'm allowed to buy
this swimsuit and then I Really Yeah, I love that swimsuit.
But I'm gonna go and get that client and then
I get to my swimsuit. You know, sometimes it's, um,
going out for a drink of champagne. Or sometimes it's
a holiday like, um,
you know, it's a It's a big goal. It's like, Yeah,
if I earn over this amount in the financial year,

(41:49):
then I'll take the family on a weekend away. But
I have this list of some small, some big um,
we've got a mutual colleague, Alex Timpani jewellery. I put
her on my list on time, and and it was
so fun to like, message her and go I. I
hit my goal. I wrote it down. I'm gonna go
and buy
those earrings.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
But it turns out your mum actually got them. She
was really, really sweet. And, um,

Speaker 2 (42:14):
like, I know, she wanted that and I was like, Oh, well,
it kind of worked out well, I was like, Oh,
I'll get the cheaper ones was in

Speaker 1 (42:20):
on your reward system. Your mum, Or did you like
that was just part of the very powerful manifesto, That one.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, I'd already got them. So I got two pairs
of earrings, but I just think It's nice and I
don't think it has to be,
um, for you. It might not be a, um, so
materialistic like, um and I'm not a big purchaser of things.
So it was a way to really Mark and and
anchor those point

Speaker 1 (42:44):
and measure success, too. Like it's another way of measuring success.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
And when someone says, Oh, these earrings Well, actually, I
bought these earrings because I had this amazing flight win,
or
and I've actually just made a huge decision to sell
my investment property, And I've already written out the things
that we're going to celebrate with, and there was a
part of me that was like, Oh, I should really
just put all that money into the future home. And
I was like, Wait a minute. Like I had made

(43:09):
a very good business. Well, investment decision, financial decision, which
is paid off very well. Why can't I enjoy that?
And I really want to anchor that time. And so
I'm actually gonna get a necklace, Alex to C to
make a coin
necklace, or maybe coins from around the world that I've
collected and my anchor of being like to remember that

(43:31):
it's like. Not only did I do it, but I
can do it again. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah.
Oh, gosh. Yeah, You're still so young. Easy. Easy Round two, mate. Um,
so recent offering has been the rest and re receive retreats.
And I know you'll be focusing more on those in
the future, but I'd love to know, You know, from
a marketing perspective, we talk about solving a problem. What
problem are you solving with this experience?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Well, it's It's been something that I've had to sort
of fight myself on, like the There's such the temptation
when you run an event or an experience to like,
over deliver and to, like, pack it full and what
I really wanted to do. And I've been kind of
it's been pointed out to me that I'm quite good
at doing is giving myself time and space and doing
what I wanna do. Basically, like, my husband will always

(44:15):
like who you're travelling so much. Is your husband OK?
I'm like he's He knew what he signed up for.
Like actually, he quite likes time alone. It's fine,
but you know, like I do go for massages or
I will take myself out or I will buy myself
a thing, and I'm vocal about it, but I realised
other people don't do that. And I got the lesson
of rest and receive from my lovely friend Liz Ellis,

(44:36):
who's a coach, did a session with her
and I came a little overwhelmed. And I got this
to do. I gotta do this. I gotta do that.
I gotta do this. She goes. I actually think you
just need to go to bed.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, Yeah. And

Speaker 2 (44:47):
I actually listened. I good. I went to bed and
I woke up in the morning to three opportunities in
my inbox,
just like crazy. Like a podcast interview a client saying yes,
like speaking like it was very like, very clear. And
I'm like, All right, I'm listening. And I just wanted to,
you know, I really want to make it. It is
a business. It is targeted at business people, but anyone

(45:08):
can come. It's really that opportunity, opportunity, and rest looks
different to some people. Like one of our lovely ladies
came and she said I didn't feel it was restful,
and I was like, but rest to me is a
walk or rest to me is sitting with my girlfriends.
Talking or rest is being out of sleep in
a little bit because I have a small toddler like
rest looks different to everyone else. What? I mean, my
rest is going away from the day to day

(45:31):
and and then allowing yourself to dream and to manifest
and to believe and to focus on your goals again.
And and that's what I've always loved about travel. Like what?
When you're just doing your day to day, you can't
think big. And so to just have that time to
think about that and then the receiving, you receive a
lovely experience on the retreat, no doubt but the receiving.

(45:53):
And I feel it was really fun. Like I listed
a bunch of things in my client wins my email.
They were all people who were on the February retreat,
and I believe those that real receiving starts to drop
in about six months later and they will dig wins,
and I'm like, Yes, that's that's the receiving coming because
you gave yourself that gift of time and space, you

(46:14):
focused on what you truly want. Uh, you made that investment.
Then
you get to receive, and you can actually allow space
for it to come in.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, 100%. That's great.
So it's a pretty sweet gig, too, right? Let's be
honest hanging

Speaker 2 (46:33):
out with you for three days, I guess. I. I
guess I'll have to go to work again in Kangaroo
Valley in a luxurious home. I'll struggle with that

Speaker 1 (46:41):
one, but I guess if there's a listener who's looking
at moving into that sort of retreat holding space, what
would you say are some of the key considerations? Because
I think there's also a matter of that. It looks amazing,
but there's a lot of behind
and the scenes biz. So what would be some of
the things that you would recommend that people consider?

Speaker 2 (47:02):
You have to be very intentional and be very clear
on your vision. Like I said, like, the temptation is
to jam stuff in and to basically run it like
a workshop. It's not a workshop like you have taken
people away, often to a beautiful place. Allow them the
space to enjoy that space. Allow them the time to

(47:22):
spend with the other people like
don't just jam it like 9 to 5 full of
stuff that you know or or teaching because you can
do that online. You can do that through a course.
You can do it through a programme. I feel like
a really big part of retreats for me. Is that
the right people at the right time in the right place. So,
honour that. But also, like, be very clear in what

(47:45):
your you know, the like, your intention of what you
want the retreat to achieve. And so then
in your marketing, you're going to then attract those people.
And what I'm finding more and more is like I
have people who come and might want an outcome. And
they're like, Oh, what do I get out of it?
What do I get? What do I get? And I'm like, Well,
I've list listed what you get. I've told you who
it's for. I've told you the benefits. If you're still

(48:07):
asking me for what you get or an outcome, I'm
actually gonna say to you, Maybe it's not for you.
Maybe you're better off going to a conference or a
workshop or hiring a coach like
and actually, you know, in saying that to a client
she's like, Oh, OK, well, I'll probably come then I
was like, You know, I was like You have to be,
have a have a little bit of letting go and
that's part of it. But also think about your profit.

(48:28):
Like I just hear about so many people. You know,
it's funny talking to a client about, you know, me
being profitable, but but it's so important. It's like we're
not running businesses for funsies like I am in business
to make money and to do it in a way
that is fun and enjoyable. Um, but I think people
don't factor in
the costs or how they run it from the start,

(48:49):
and it can creep up really quickly. I will just
buy them a little gift. I will organise the transfer
or we'll get a a facil facilitator and a massage,
and we'll get the food brought in and
all these add ons that happen and then a few
people cancel and you got minimum numbers and then I
don't know something else happens like your venue moves which
happened to me, and next thing you know, you're at

(49:11):
a break even or a loss. I've heard of people
losing $100,000 on on retreat or conference experiences.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
So I've been really, really clear around
the costs involved and then pricing appropriately, pricing

Speaker 2 (49:23):
appropriately and knowing that like that should really be in
your first step. I think people get really caught up
in the the you know, it looks so fun and
beautiful areas, but also the work. And I had another
colleague who, um, ran a retreat for 50 people, and
I'm like,
That's a conference babe like That's whoa! And

(49:47):
it sounded like they made a lot of money. But
I think also they didn't price it high enough, gave
a lot of gifts, and it was like only when
they got to that 50 mark she was like, We
are just now making like this will be the profit
and I can tell you from
I had 11 people on a retreat and they had
50 we had the same profit margin. I would much
rather manage 11 smaller groups than 50 she was like,

(50:11):
Why didn't I know this? And I said because you
didn't talk to me. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (50:14):
absolutely. Your capacity is incredible when you travel a lot.
You attend many events, you have quiet commitments. And of course,
you're divinely pop it thin
and wonderful. Hubby Matt, I would love to know, as
I'm sure many of you who follow you on socials
would love to know. How do you do it?

Speaker 2 (50:32):
All this question. It's so funny. I'm gonna have to
do a podcast episode on this for my new podcast,
which I'll write down because it's like it just keeps
coming up. And I went to see Jacinda Ardern recently,
which was an absolute treat, and to see the former
prime minister of New Zealand address this question. I was
crying and I actually ended up sharing an email about it,
but she basically said, and I'll answer the same. I

(50:54):
don't
I don't but also don't compare like there shouldn't be
any comparing and not that's where we're going. But it's
like
you see, you only see the surface and you only
see the highlights. Um, you don't see the tiredness and
the juggle and the managing and the coordinations that goes
behind that. And you know, I am tired at times.

(51:16):
And like I said to you before, this is just
a season right now where there's a lot of things on,
so it is quite full. And there's other times where
I've gone quieter and things are easy to go. Oh,
you look so busy. I'm like,
No, I'm just posting on social quite a bit. I'm
actually lying on my couch right now. I've done very
little today like it's such a misconception of what we see.

(51:36):
But also, I just think having that she kind of
people would say, How do you do it all all
going and kind of going, Oh, I can't complain because
she's the prime minister or Oh, look, you're doing all
those things. I don't do anything. It's like you just
you don't know what happens behind and we can only
we can only manage what we can manage. And I
do have a high capacity. So I would never ask
somebody to do what I do or the way I

(51:59):
do it. And some of it I probably take for granted.
But the answer, really, how do I manage it? I
don't do it all at once. And I I ask
for support and I ask for help and I when
I have had enough.
I hit the roof, and then I say I've had enough.
And I go, I'm not I'm just not doing this anymore.
And I call in

Speaker 1 (52:19):
support. So what Support? What? What does support Network look
like for you professionally and personally that enable you to
to keep

Speaker 2 (52:28):
going? Yeah. And I think I I talk about, you know,
to run my business that takes
going to a psychologist and a Kines ologist and a
physio and a personal trainer and going to soak, you know, magnesium.
But that's all. Actually, that's part of keeping me to

(52:48):
run my business. So I do have that sort of support. Um,
we have a couple's counsellor. I have, um I'm so
thankful for my kindy. Um, Finn goes to Kindy three
days a week. Thank you. To all the early educators
out there. The job you do is phenomenal. It's early
Educator day the other day, and I just think
the gift they give us with our Children is phenomenal. Um,

(53:09):
we do have, uh, family support, but not, um they're interstate,
so sometimes they can be tricky. Yeah, so and you know,
and that takes management. And again, that's really, really upsetting.
Sometimes when I get the I talk about trying to
manage that and I get kind of back people going. Oh, well,
aren't you lucky that you have that?
And it's like, I am grateful. I'm very grateful and
very thankful. But what you have to understand is all

(53:32):
of this thing. Like I either pay for it in
money or I pay for it in energy and emotion
and coordinations. It's for free. No. And so it all take.
There's a cost to everything. You just decide which cost
it is. And I understand that, and that's fine.
We're we're getting a babysitter for the first time this Sunday.

(53:53):
So that's a new thing for us, with a lot
of amazing friends who've stepped in and helped, right? You know,
it's like we can't you know, we need to formalise
this arrangement. So and then in my business, I have
an OBM and a VA. Uh, not full time. They,
you know, five hours a week. Um, and I have

(54:13):
an accountant, bookkeeper
website, um, sort of SEO email kind of on,
uh, when I need him. So Yeah, so it's actually
it's a pretty big team just said none of them
are full time. It's a big

Speaker 1 (54:28):
team. None of them are full time. Yeah, love it.
Love it. The You know, you know, this podcast series
of was created to inspire and motivate business owners with
true stories about business success. So thank you for sharing that.
I mean, so many times you see highlight reels
of business journeys and and I'm conscious of sharing those
those harder moments. Um, so people feel like they're not

(54:52):
the only one struggling in business, I guess. What would
you say has been your big biggest challenge in business
so far

Speaker 2 (55:00):
from
I think team I'm planning team like so if we
do talk about that immediate team, um, you know, for
a long time. So you know, my work is to
be more focused in copywriting and social media, um, support.
And so when I would get people, I would get
busy so I'd get subcontractors in. But then, you know
that famine the work would go down, and so then

(55:22):
I would let them go again and then get busy
so you have to train someone else. And then So
when around 2020 I was like, I need to get
that consistent support. So I started getting a VA and,
you know, you hire someone and then it's not quite right.
So you hire the next person, they have to move on.
Then you hire the next person, and that's great for
nine months until it's not great anymore. And it's just

(55:42):
been
there's been times through that where I've felt shame again
around like Am I just, like, really difficult to work with? Like,
am I just not good at delegating and, like then
taking it all on myself? Um,
I think sometimes that comes from my nurturer, sometimes trying
to like over accommodate and please everyone and when sometimes

(56:05):
it's like, No, you actually just aren't doing the job.
But then, sometimes I've, you know, cried letting go of
someone because I'm like, I don't It's not that I
don't want to work with you. It's just it's not
the right thing. And it's not the right time in
my business and and sometimes it is. You can't afford it.
You can't afford it at that time or you need
a different type of support, and I guess my business

(56:25):
has changed and grown so exponentially in four years that
and now it's going through another shift. That team will
look different again, but there's just I just think I
I'm hearing that team and and getting that right support
at the right time.
That's it's hard people, people. I love people. But also

(56:46):
working with people is hard

Speaker 1 (56:48):
and you even hear that. You know, within, um you know,
corporate organisations. Um you know, HR people turn over. It's always,
you know, high up there on biggest challenges running business.
We all have our days, and being consistent on socials
is tough, yet it's an absolute requirement, right? If you

(57:10):
want to grow your business, reach and connect with your people. Um,
I know you've had some, you know, tough times as
you mentioned dealing with grief. And I've and I've been
privy to some of those tough times of yours professionally
as well.
Um, but no one would know that you know how
how you show up, you're so consistent. What is the
key to your consistent, upbeat presence on on socials? How

(57:34):
do you do it when you isn't necessarily how you're feeling?

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Oh, it's photos, photos and Pre-recorded stuff like Not that
I batch batch creation, but also, you know, and I
would be
We talk about a lot Jade and I, Jade Warne
and I run personal brand photoshoots having those brilliant photos
having a wealth of library of amazing photos to pull on.

(57:58):
I don't have to
worry about my hair and makeup or how I feel
or how I look that day. I just go, Oh,
that's a great photo that represents what I'm trying to
talk about. And sometimes those professional photos aren't great for, like,
I have a photo of me like collapsed on the floor, Um, jokingly.
But it kind of met the message of where I
was at. Like I'm overwhelmed. I'm stressed like I'll do
poses like that like, Oh,

(58:19):
but I don't have to rely upon yeah, being able
to show up on a live Or then there was
a time where, yeah, I was doing less of that.
I'm getting back into it now because I really love him.
I really love that dynamic, but I wasn't doing a
lot of video because it was just It was just
too hard. So I was pulling on. I was doing
more like photo reels like flash ones or pulling on old.

(58:39):
You would just have so much B roll so much
old content on your phone or repurposing like
today I did a little recording of a podcast myself,
and so I just recorded myself on my camera that
I can just take snippets from and then I could
use those at other times. So I think it's just
having a bank of content.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, you're right. A big bank and making whatever around
repurposing and multi

Speaker 2 (59:05):
to use. And so even if you're not scheduling, um,
I know that on a day where I have to go, Ah,
give a folder of quotes called favourite quotes or like
good things to post on social media, like literally have
those folders on my desktop that on a day where
I am feeling more inspired, I just chuck it in there.
So the days when I feel less inspired, I can
put it out. But yeah, I hope that I think

(59:27):
I do generally want to have a positive and upbeat experience. Um,
I want my audience to have it. That is part
of my brand.
I think I've heard a few times about that. Like,
I don't know, there's a fine line between I'm wanting
to be honest and tell people what I'm going through.
And I'm not afraid to, um, for the listeners that
I want to share his story. So my nephew in
January this year was diagnosed with a rare genetic condition. Um,

(59:51):
he was 11 months at the time, and we were
told he would be given He would have 1 to
2 years to live. So he's now 19 months, and
we just take it to day as it comes. But,
you know, to see your brother and my sister-in-law go
through that to see my whole the ripple effect,
um, and to, you know, have my son turning two

(01:00:11):
that week. The week that I found out my nephew
might never make that like it was brutal. And so
I have shared that. But I just think I just
don't know what the benefit of me
moaning, not moaning, letting out, crying and all that. Do
you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Like 100

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
percent. I don't if there's no value, there's no value
to me sharing that. If you ask me, I'll talk
about it and there are days I do go on
my stories or I do. Do I email my audience
and say I I'm exhausted. I'm tired and this is
what I'm doing and it's it's why then I advocate
more for like, my rest and receipt, and I'm like,
I'm taking on a dose of my own medicine

(01:00:52):
But you know that, you know, it's just like Well, yeah,
but I've just learned from my past years of I
need to consistently show up in terms of marketing so
that the business, because the business falling apart

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
as well you don't want that. That's

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
definitely not gonna help where I'm at. So I think
it's tricky, and I think I don't know if that
helps anyone in the audience, but it's like, Yeah, I
think finding your line of what vulnerability looks like and
what I don't wanna over positivity things. But I'm like
I also I think I'm quite conscious and intentional about,
like
if I'm to share this, what's the thing? And it

(01:01:25):
will never be for sympathy because I I you know
I will call my friend Karen. I will call, you know,
all of my clients know what's going on, you know,
and I but you have to protect your heart as
well and only share that when it's safe for you
and and again choosing your audience and choosing your cheerleaders.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, spot on.
So you mentioned as a coach? You know, my question is,
as a coach, do you have a A coach? Have
had a coach, Um, you mentioned Li Ellis. Um, do you?
Is that sort of in and out, or is that
consistently like How do you engage in a coach coaching services?

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
I started with a coach like, Yeah, really? Like again?
Just that journey of
not investing really in that sort of stuff till my
10 year mark and then business coach helped me to,
you know, really look at my business and my experience
and the way I was running
everything and my goals and and helped me to actually
go down the personal brand route, Uh, and to really

(01:02:28):
step into coaching and consulting I I had, you know,
it's funny because I kinda did used to do it,
but I hadn't owned the title Informal. Yeah, well, and
I kept shifting into the doing and the technician as
opposed to Yeah, the the coaching role. So, um,
no, I do sort of, like programme. Um, I sort
of dip in and out. I've had many and I

(01:02:50):
just don't I don't necessarily think having a coach for
four or five years is the greatest thing. And I've
had clients who've run their course with me, and I
know that maybe they'll come back around in a few
years when they're at a different stage or they need
a refresher or whatever. Like, I don't necessarily see my
clients as lifetime or monthly Lifetime clients. They're kind of

(01:03:12):
in my world. Yeah.
And so yeah, I at the moment I don't really
think I have one more like
I'm I'm really down the path at the moment of,
I think, where my energy at, too, is like and
it's what I offer now hour of power, like I'm
really into, like, hiring somebody for their expertise, like a
pricing specialist like Justine McLean. I hired her for an

(01:03:32):
hour just to talk to me about my pricing, and
you do pay a premium for that. But then you
go away and you take action and So it's what
I'm offering my clients as well. It's like if you
feel stuck, you feel overwhelmed, like Come on, we'll just
we'll just talk. And if you want to do five
of those by five, But I don't think we necessarily
have to work together for six months, 12 months.
You still got to do the work. But I think

(01:03:54):
sometimes you do just want to work through

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
something. Yeah, 100%. Take some action items, get on the
next page and then off you go again. And then
it's like, yeah, coming back. Like, yeah, dipping in, dipping out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Yeah, that's kind of where my son, Yeah, where my
energy is at and probably where it's always been at,
and not that I don't want to commit, but I
just I think I like a A variety of experiences,
and I like to be in a variety of rooms
and
yeah, so, um, but I think I'm finding as well like,
even though I'm in coaching space, I think sometimes people

(01:04:27):
are jumping into coaching a bit too early.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
It's everywhere at the moment, and everyone's offering to solve
all sorts of problems, and I think Yeah, that that
people are jumping on it. And, you know, um,
you know, I myself, I've had a go with a
couple of different coaches thinking, Oh, maybe I do need that.
Maybe I do need this and I'm like, No, that's
actually not what I need. Um, and so I think

(01:04:50):
it's kind of a bit like Goldilocks too, right? You
need to just, you know, work your way around, you know,
to to find who's really gonna work for you and
the style at the season. 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
And it's it's OK
to have that. And I just think I was dissuaded
a lot over the years from, like doing one offs, uh,
or short packages when it's like.
But I see how impactful a one day thing or
a three day

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
and you're listening to the market. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
and that's what they're saying. And that's what they have
capacity for. So I'm like by one by four by 10.
I don't I don't mind. I know that in an
hour I can help you. I can't solve your problem.
You have to do that like that's the disclaimer that
you can't think that one hour Nor can you think
that working with someone for three months or six months
is gonna fix your business. And I think the first

(01:05:42):
thing a coach should be saying is
I can Yeah, I can only guide you and support you.
I don't have the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
You do? Yeah, and I'm going to help get that
out of you. But it's ultimately on

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
you. It's, um yeah, Denise Duffield Thomas is sharing recently,
and it's like the most annoying answer. But it's also
like the the best answer, and I'm like, It's your

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
choice. And you know, too, I think I was told
that at a very young age, someone said to me
about a very personal reason, actually, and they said to me,
Hey, I was in tears and she said to me,
You know, you actually know you're not going to get
the answer from me, Go away. You know this and

(01:06:23):
you know,
whole of 24. I left and I came back and
I'm like, Yeah, you do. You do? Sometimes you just
need to be pushed into that because you want to
look elsewhere for answers

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
and you want the you want the fix and you
know you want to be fixed and I have a
I do go to a psychic as well and all
the time she's like no more. No more of this. No,
No more programmes. You don't need courses. You don't need
the coaching.
You need to just look, you need to do, you know,
and integrate all of that learning. And then when you
do feel the need, like, go for it. Like I said,

(01:06:59):
I was like, I really want to have this session
with this pricing expert. It was like a no brainer,
and I just went for it. I wanna be that
same support for my clients. It's like they're just like,
I really Yeah, I really, really need to talk to you.
I just want to work on this thing with you.
Can you Can we bounce it around and be like, Yes,
that's perfect. Yes, that's that's how I can support you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
So in the last week you announced after 14 years,
lovely communications is changing shape. You have launched Emma Lovell
with a different focus. How long had you been considering

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
this?
Oh, the Emma Lovell rebrand. Oh, I don't even like
saying Brand rebrand because it's me and I've always been me.
So it's weird. Brand evolution brand shift I. It's a
shift because it's not. It's not like I kept teasing it,
and then it was kind of like this, like, surprise,
like it's ta da, It's me I like. I feel

(01:07:51):
like people were like Duh. But then people can understand
that the journey was there. So I mean, I think
four years ago, when I worked with my business coach,
she would have wanted me and she told our so.
It was a
private coach, but also group programme, and she was like
Explain the benefits of working under your own name and
I but it was just too much change and I
wasn't ready. And I love lovely. I love I still

(01:08:13):
love lovely, but I'm lovely. That's my name,

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
and yes you are,

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
so I don't have to lose that. But I had
to go on that journey, and
it's funny like the whole, you know, even personal brand focus.
It's like and I will always be able to support
people with personal brand. But I really am stepping into
doing it by example, and it's like I am the
brand and I have a strong brand and I I've
always had a strong brand, and that's what's got me

(01:08:39):
through 14 years of business. And that's what we will
continue is that I am the brand and the business
of Emma Lovell,
Um, and just really, really owning that. And it was
November last year. I was driving off a mountain called
Clearview Mountain, and it just, like, literally, like, just sort
of struck

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
me. I think you need to rephrase that. I was
driving off a mountain,

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
driving down from the mountain, driving down a hotel,
Yeah, driving down from a hotel on a mountain named Clearview,
which is I think there is some magic on that
in that place. Um, and I just actually, I had
pulled over, um, to try and run alive because the

(01:09:21):
Internet wasn't working. It was during my course launch and
talking to my client, Lisa, and I said, Do you
know we don't have to do this today? I was like, No,
I'm good, I'm good And she's like, No, I don't
think we need to do that. I said, OK, then
maybe I'll just have a cry. It just was just
all the overwhelm and then it just on that drive.
Then it just struck me and I was like,
I don't have to
I. I don't want to do it this way anymore.

(01:09:42):
And I I remember love and the crazy thing was
I got home that night and I'd done this like
one day conference and she'd send a gift, which I
didn't know it was coming and it's a plaque of wood.
And on the plaque of wood, it said Lovely communications
established 2009 and I was like, It's literally a sign like,
This is my momentum of that

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
And then I ended up doing a session with that coach,
and she sent me a gift to
again, and this time I kind of knew what the
gift might be. And I said, Can you make it? Emma?
Level established 2023. So now I have lovely communications. 2009
has hung up and I've got Emma level. So I mean,
it's been, I guess, 4.5 years, but also then

(01:10:25):
10 months of really kind of marinating. But then the
direction came in a three hour conversation. We actually went
at a restaurant. You and I had a cocktail at
on the Gold Coast new colleague, and I think it's
because I told her, like a podcast. You tell your
whole story, but you so you only tell it in
little chunks. And then I was telling you about my new, uh,
retreat offering.

(01:10:48):
Well, actually, I wasn't. It wasn't even an offering. Then
I was talking about it being a master class and
that being Emma Lovell gave me the freedom to do
all these different random things that I apparently do. And
it had a sort of umbrella for it. And she was.
We just sort of honed in on that. And then
she was. We just kind of came up with. And
I'd been asked the same week the question by a very,

(01:11:08):
very
wonderful businesswoman, very successful businesswoman. She's like, just like, Can
I ask you, like, how do you travel so much like,
How do you How are you able to run your
business and travel so much? And so then in this conversation,
we kind of came up with like and I was like,
I'm gonna have to redo my messaging and she was like, Yeah,
but it was so easy And it was like, Duh.

(01:11:29):
Like when it all dropped in like, this is the
perfect marrying of my 14 years of business. 18 years
of solitary,
my love of self care like, yeah, retreats. But also
like that coaching of like, if you're an entrepreneur and
you wanna travel more or do more of what you
you say you love, then I can support you to

(01:11:50):
live the life that you love. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
beautiful. Love it.
So for the listener who might be considering this kind
of brand progression or relaunch or what did we decide
to call

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Um, and still working through the sort of pros and cons.
What advice would you

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
share?
It doesn't have to happen all at once. Like you're
not on its, you know, you don't have to come
out with a massive reveal. And so I've actually been shifting.
And I think people will probably notice, you know, like
a binge. So I keep hitting my mic. I keep
shifting over the past few months
like it's really happened since that day. I decided, in

(01:12:35):
a level it's been happening. Um and be that in
some visual colours, But it be that in some messaging,
being in that the content that I'm sharing in the
strategy in the things that I'm introducing in the conversations
I'm having I've been telling people privately for a while
that I'm doing it. So I just think you don't
have to come out and have everything ready. I also
thought I was gonna launch my podcast and have, like,

(01:12:57):
a new, um, sort of downloadable
and even have some more sort of work done on
the retreat course. Like all of that done By first
of September, I set myself a a date arbitrarily, which
ended up being a very significant date. But it was like,
you know, I just and then it got to the
closer and I was like, I don't I don't have
to do that. And even the visual brand isn't there yet.
I'm working with the wonderful Tara from your one and

(01:13:19):
only who's gonna help me refine it. But she done.
We done a basic colour palette. But I'm not even
using the colours fully yet, and we can refine that.
And I was OK to go out with it. And
it'll be fun then, to be like, OK, now the podcast.
And now here's my new download. And now,
uh oh, yeah, I've now shifted. You know, this page like, Oh,

(01:13:42):
can you see the difference and sort of really share
that journey?
Um, you know, even my Facebook page, because I did
it on the day thinking it'll do the big changeover.
Facebook's still deciding if I'm allowed to change my page name.
So it's still lovely communication, but it's not a big deal,

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
right? So it's one step at a time. It's not
being really rigid and stuck on a plan. Yeah, I
don't have a logo and flexible.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Yeah, I don't even have the logo right now. Like
putting in inverted commas

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
and letting it just be Yeah, really organic. An organic
roll out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Yeah, and I want I wanted that too, because I
really want to be able to share that journey and then,
you know, be that demonstration for my clients and be like,
you don't have to have that pressure of
you can have a reveal, but it can be a
soft reveal. And you know, you can sort of warm
your clients up to it or your audience up to
it and and share the journey with them. It doesn't

(01:14:39):
have to be,
you know, because that can be quite, um, jarring. Sometimes
when they do come out with just a big brand
change and you're like, What I really you know, I
did have someone say that, and she's like, I really
it's lovely and I'm really happy for you, but she's
like it's just not as colourful as you know. And
you're so colourful and I'm

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
like, You're like, there's more to come.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Yeah, I'm like, Sorry. Like I'm colourful like I still
I'm literally sitting in front of Karen in a rainbow
leopard print dress with a Barbie pink jacket. It's just
that the brand has evolved and elevated and matured, and
it will be more appealing to people. Um, but, Emma,
I am Emma the person. Nothing

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
can change there. No, no.
So, as I mentioned in the intro, you've shared drinks
and had conversations with many in incredible entrepreneurs. You've sat
in rooms with a huge collection of international keynote speakers.
Jacinda Ardern. We've you know what? Just to name one
and the Mini. What would be the three most impactful

(01:15:41):
pieces of advice that you could pay forward to today
from all of that from all the people from all
the people from all the interactions are there sort of
three pieces of advice that
you know you could really draw on and pay for
it in today's episode?

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Yeah. So, yeah, Jacinda's, um Jacinda Ardern Dame Jacinda Ardern
talking about not doing it all but also that not
comparing and just understanding Like
if you've got a problem,
it's you know, that is a problem for you. Like,
don't just go. Oh, but I'm not the Prime Minister.
So I can't handle it like just having some perspective

(01:16:16):
of your own life and, uh, perspective of what other
people might be going through. So just going kind of Yeah, like,
just focus on what you're doing and take care of
yourself as you

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
are.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Uh, Emma Isaacs. A wonderful, wonderful Emma Isaacs from business chicks.
Um I mean, her book's called winging it, and she really, really,
truly embodies that, um, the way she's pivoted and grown
and evolved and shifted and adapted over the years, and
she calls it scrappy but like she's actually puts on
very high quality chic has really great standards, but

(01:16:52):
I don't know. She just always is willing to muck in,
and em's never gonna sit in an ivory tower. She'll
be at the event at the front table, but I
know that she was putting badges out the night before,
and it's been really lovely to get to know her.
But also, I think you would get so much value
from her books. But it is. You've just got to
start and you've got to try. Who else? Who else?

(01:17:16):
I just thought someone who really came to mind very
quickly was, um
oh, no, actually, I was gonna say another one. But
I'll say Leonie Dawson, who I saw speak the other week.
And she was, I think I was telling you about
last night. Yes, the most unapologetic person I've ever seen. Um,
I was literally leaning in when she was speaking like

(01:17:36):
I was captivated. I was laughing out loud. I had
a tear like
I just was fully embraced in in her journey and it,
but it was, um, people say they're unapologetic and they're like,
I'm unapologetic and I don't care and I'll do me
and da da da But they do. They still care
a hell of a lot. She genuinely does not care.
She is genuinely living her truth. And for that people

(01:18:01):
accept and love her and
has run a very successful business, doing many things and
being this wild woman. And it's like I love that
she's leading the way. It's like it's OK and it's
safe for me to to run my business. However, the
hell I want and attract the people who like that.
And it's the people who don't don't. And so that

(01:18:22):
was a recent one. The bonus one was Chelsea Pottinger
we talked about, um, she's got a wonderful book called
The Mindful High Achiever. Just brilliant standout keynote speaker. And she, um,
did a breathing exercise and she also told me like
If you don't drink, if you drink more than 2.5 drinks,
you won't sleep and I think of her off like
you won't sleep well. But she did this breathing thing

(01:18:42):
where if you breathe in deep
and you take a little extra breath, it just that's
what you do before you go to sleep or when
you cry, you know you go.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Yeah, that it

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
actually then resets and I still there's times where I'm
feeling a bit worked up and just that tiny little, tiny,
tiny thing she said, which would have been three seconds. Oh,
I love

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
that you've given us wellness. You've given us practicality.
You've given us some physical, um, advice. I love it.
Thank you for paying it forward and sharing it. Emma,
you are such a special human. I've loved this chat.
We were both recently at the Ozma Prene Awards where
you came away with a well deserved win. As you know,

(01:19:23):
we were encouraged to write a few words down if
we came away with the win, right? And as a finalist,
my words were actually around the gratitude that I had
for you.
I wouldn't honestly have been there at that time without you.
You encourage you empower. Um, you've got this extraordinary network

(01:19:43):
and and connections which you so welcome. You know you
so openly. Welcome everyone into, um I would say it's
actually one of your superpowers connection. I've got some incredible
people now in my business that have been absolute game
changer for me.
Thanks to you, you certainly, you know, walk the walk

(01:20:04):
on integrating motherhood and being a business owner. And I
appreciate you taking the time out of your incredibly busy
schedule to be with me here today. So thank you
for joining me. You're an absolute gem. Love you. Lots,
Emma Lovell.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
Oh, I adore you. I love you. Thank you. We
had just the best connection early on, and it's been
a privilege to witness your journey, and that means the
world to me. But
also, um, thank you for this is my first in
person proper podcast. So

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
I'm a bit old school, mate. You got a

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
I got a new experience. So you're I'm doing new
things with you too. And I, I just I love
working with people. But I, I get as much learning
and inspiration, and it's a two way street. This, you know,
Thank

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
you.
If you're looking for some free resources to start creating
a buzz with your digital marketing, then go to bees.
Knees marketing.com dot a U backslash free. That's bees Knees
marketing.com dot a U backslash free. Follow the prompts and
take advantage of our free resource library and get your

(01:21:14):
business buzzing

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