Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Kelly Barrett is determined to make the world a better
place using her skills in business and fashion to provide
for our most vulnerable.
As the founder of Underwear for Humanity, and not for
profit dedicated to providing essentials to those in need, Kelly
has provided a business plan that will fulfill this vision.
Cali is proof that once you discover your true purpose
(00:25):
in life, your success becomes inevitable. Get ready to be
inspired by the incredible Callie Barrett.
Mm, I love Byron Bay. I have clients in Byron Bay.
I've often talked about moving to Byron Bay. It's the energy,
it's the place, it's the beaches, it's the food, and
it's the people you meet. And we launched season 5, actually,
(00:48):
with author, actor, entrepreneur Lola Berry, who is Byron based. Um,
and here we are launching.
Season 6 with another Byron meter. Welcome, founder of Underwear
for Humanity, Callie Barrett.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Thank you, Karen. Lovely to be here. Lovely
Speaker 1 (01:05):
to be here. I think we were just talking before.
It was, um, off season. I'd been quite busy with super, um, with, with,
with clients, and I managed to sneak away for a swim.
And it was pretty cold. I think you and your
gorgeous children were the only other crazy ones in the water.
But, um, we got chatting, I learned more about your business.
(01:27):
I got back to Melbourne, did a bit of research,
and was absolutely blown away by your achievements in business
and contributions to the fashion industry and making waves in
the world of, um, conscious consumerism. So I tracked you
down and here we are, almost a year, no, yeah. Yeah,
a year later.
(01:49):
Not swimming in the winter sea, but in Melbourne, where
I think the temperatures can sometimes be as cold as
the Winter Sea.
Um, I'm excited to have you here and share your journey.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
It's great. It's great. So there's a lot to unpack
around your business, particularly in the last 12 months where
I feel like you have been absolutely cleaning up in
the award space. But I do want to just spend
a little bit of, bit of time understanding, you know,
where you were at the, at the beginning of your career.
What did you start out doing? And did you have
(02:25):
some
Bigger obligation or greater cause like you do now in
those early
days.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I did always want to do fashion design. I started
making my own clothes when I was 8 and I
was really clear where I that was the industry I
wanted to work in. And, um, it was a little
bit of a like windy road to finally do a
fashion degree in London, um, as a mature age student. Yeah.
There was lots of things in between, businesses. Yeah. Um.
(02:55):
And
As far as um social good, yes, I think that's
always been in my conscience and.
As I've gotten older, I think I've had the realization
that in any job that you do, in any career,
there is always a way of giving back. So even
my career, which is designing underwear, which seems like a pretty,
(03:21):
I wouldn't say exactly useless, but not exactly like
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Um, it's off the beaten track. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (03:29):
it's not, yeah, not a social worker, you know, you're
not people were released from jail like you are signing undies, um,
but I've learned how powerful it is to have those essentials,
and I've learned just over the years that all sorts of, um,
even models have volunteered their time, you would think what
what's a model got to do with, you know, um,
(03:51):
social good, but actually I've been
Really lucky to have two models volunteer their time because
they believe in the business. So they're using their particular
skill for good too.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, absolutely. So it's like that deeper obligation, and that's
what gives you the satisfaction, right? Like, you can have
all the money in the world, but it's that deep,
purposeful obligation that gets you up.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
It's literally the only thing I want to do for
the rest of my life. Oh, I just want to
do things that are gonna, um,
Improve people's lives, improve the world that we live in, yeah,
I just, I'm not interested really in anything else.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I love it.
So, you mentioned just before about, um, graduating from London
College of Fashion with a Bachelor of Arts in product development,
I think I, I read. What did you see as
your ideal role straight out of uni, like, out of
that course? What were you imagining yourself doing?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So, I had a child halfway through that degree or
the last 3rd, the 3rd year during industrial industrial placement.
Um, so I was a single mother with a baby
in my honors year and, um, I, that's, you know,
(05:14):
when you have a child, you really want to make
sure their life is as good as it can possibly be.
And yeah, so I was really focused on stability and
what can I do to make sure she has everything
she needs, safe and
Yeah, so I decided that straight after, um,
(05:35):
My degree, I would do corporate work for a number
of years and then do my own business, right, which
is what happened, but it was so interesting that.
I thought I needed that grounding, and I do really
appreciate those 8 or so years in corporate.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So you recognized that you needed the grounding to set
you up for your own business or more the grounding
for that stable
Speaker 2 (05:59):
both. Yeah. Yeah. I knew I would have my own
business again because I had a few little businesses and
I'm not really the employee type. I'm OK, but I just,
I just wanna do what I wanna do.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I hear you,
sister. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (06:15):
well, I like variety and, and I like the chaos
of startups,
Speaker 1 (06:20):
and making decisions just running with it, not getting anyone
else's input, or yeah,
Speaker 2 (06:24):
action,
Speaker 1 (06:25):
yeah, action, action. I love it. I love it. OK,
so then, um,
Your work, uh, there was the whole proof? Yes. Yeah. OK. OK.
And you worked up from an underwear designer to an
underwear design manager? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (06:38):
manager,
Speaker 1 (06:39):
8.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (06:41):
incredible. So why underwear?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
It's really, OK, so I think it's accidental, but it's a,
there's a really interesting story behind this. So when I
came back to Australia, baby in tow, no money, um,
Holding my degree, which meant 0 in the Australian market,
Speaker 1 (07:02):
but it meant a whole lot to you.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And I was struggling and I was doing like night
shifts and, you know, in bars, trying to find a job.
And um.
Nothing was coming up. Anyway, a job came up at Dacor,
the plastic company doing their cooler bags because it's a
cut and so item. So it was being um the
product manager in the cooler bag department. Yeah. So I
(07:26):
took that role and
I just, I was quite desperate to get back into fashion.
So something came up that whole proof.
And I just kind of fell into it. However, I
actually remember a conversation with my design teacher.
A few years before, which I've only just remembered not
very long ago, and she said, what do you want
(07:47):
to do when you leave? And I said, I want
to start an underwear brand where the money, um, is
an impact business and the money is helping women in need. And, um,
I sort of forgot about it. It's so weird. I
completely forgot about it and then I sort of stumble
into underwear.
(08:08):
And, and, and yeah, in retrospect, it was all kind
of paved out.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So you had
that intention all the way back there, unbeknowing that it
would actually manifest. Those are the best manifestations. You gotta
be careful what you say, hey, you know,
Speaker 2 (08:24):
send it to my kids. Be really clear what you want. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So what were your biggest takeaways as an employee in
the design space for corporate?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Um,
As far as career advice for somebody or what I learned? Yeah,
Speaker 1 (08:40):
no, what you learned? What were some of the biggest
takeaways and that even that, you know, as an employee,
you've been able to, you know, um, put to good
work in your own business.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, I think understanding, working with other corporate businesses, understanding
the pressures they're under, um,
And that things are not as simple as I want
them to be, or you know, just immediately go. There's
a lot of politics and layers with big business, and
(09:11):
I think understanding it in the business I was in,
but also understanding in the customers that they had, which
were really big businesses, the pressures they're under and how
to try and make their life easier.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
OK, yeah, which is all about that solution selling too, right?
It is, yeah, yeah.
So then, yeah, I guess those are an amazing skills
to then be able to transfer into your own business. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 (09:38):
they were amazing skills. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, right.
Um, OK, so then you had Starcorp textiles.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I still have that. You
Speaker 1 (09:47):
still have that, which is all about sustainability and, and
creating change in the categories of was it underwear, thermals
and socks.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah. So that's for, it's a house brand business, so
it no brand. Yeah and um I work.
I don't work very much in that business now because
I have a team that does all the things I
was doing, but I work on sustainability in that business
now.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, right. OK. So, yeah, I didn't realize that was
still running because what I was thinking, that would be,
you'd had a couple of iterations of different business types
before you landed underwear for humanity. Would that be still
fair to say? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I think I
Doing um product for other people, you don't have obviously 100%
control of that and same as at Wholeproof you don't,
didn't either. You have some influence but it's not your
brand and um.
There's always commercial realities around sustainability, yeah, so you can
do so much and then you kind of run into
(10:47):
a wall because the cost becomes too high, and um
I really wanted to do something completely uncompromising where cost
was not.
Decisions weren't based on cost. They were based on what
is the absolute best thing we can do. And then
work backwards, to what can we sell that for to
still survive and have all the impact we want to have,
(11:09):
you know, and still be competitive in the market.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So that was with underwear for humanity. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And so, I think, I guess where I'm trying to
go to is, you know, often people will see businesses
having great success in a certain space and go, Oh,
they've just started and they've just gone, but more often
And then not there's iterations of the business prior to that,
and a lot of years of work prior to that
(11:33):
before you get that formula
Speaker 2 (11:35):
right. Yeah, I had another business, um, before, underwear of
Humanity called Silent Arrow, and, um,
That ran for.
4 years, and I certainly learned an enormous amount from
that business that I brought into Underwear for Humanity so
(11:55):
much because I was such a product person, but having
an econ business is mostly communication.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah,
yeah, um, which
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I didn't realize. So I learned an enormous amount about
having an econ brand but also around inventory and
Um, I still got to learn my lesson on that
one a bit, but I did learn a lot. Um,
but yeah, that iteration of the small business and underwear
econ brand, yeah, it, there was, there were some amazing
(12:27):
things about it and there were some things that were
just really, really difficult and certainly I haven't done those
difficult things again, like I've done it differently.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, 100%.
So what, what was the point where you go, right,
we're going to launch underwear for humanity, and this is
how it's gonna go.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So, I had stopped Silent Arrow. I couldn't, I had
to make some compromises and I wasn't happy to do
that to keep it going. Um, either on size diversity
or sustainability, and it was too important for both of
those things were too important to me. So it just
had a natural end that I think this is done.
(13:07):
And um, so then there was an emptiness of
What is the next thing? I'm not done here. Like I,
I want to do another brand. I feel like I
have more to give. And
Um, whilst Silent Arrow was also an impact business, I
want to do something more impactful. And so,
(13:27):
I thought
I don't know what the next thing is, but I'm
just gonna sit in this empty space until it comes
to me and
The right thing will come. And it took ages. Like
I was expecting it in 1 week, and I was
expecting it in 2 weeks. You know, it was like
4 weeks of empty at least, you
Speaker 1 (13:46):
know. If I just have a swim every day, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And then, uh, we went on holiday to Byron and, um,
The kids were a bit smaller then, and I thought I, anyway,
I thought I was gonna have this nice empty space where,
I would be in flow, it would come to me
and I would know this next path where I would
have greater impact. And um, I found myself really busy
(14:11):
with the kids. Yeah, and I thought it's not happening.
Like this was supposed to be my downtime, so I
would be inspired and
Anyway, um, we were just super busy and one morning
at 5 o'clock, I got woken up by, um, the kookaburras,
you know, they were so loud in the morning, so amazing.
(14:32):
I woke up and I thought, Oh, this is the
only time I'm gonna have a loan. I need to
get up now. So I got up, I had my notepad,
and I was just hanging out around the trees and
forests and, and then I just was sketching these ideas
and it all came to me like the logo, what
the range should be. And I remember reflecting and thinking
(14:54):
and saying, Is this really what I should do? This
looks really plain. Is this gonna sell? Cause what I
was doing before was quite edgy and this is really
simple underwear.
And I was like, yep, that's what you need to do.
And I was like, OK, because I didn't want, because
it's an impact business, I didn't want my brain to
be running it because it's too limiting. It needed to
come from a really deeper spiritual place to to know
(15:17):
I was on the right path to have the biggest
impact I could have.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I just got goosebumps.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So yeah, I was like, OK, I'll do it. And
I didn't know the name. And then this name Underwear
for Humanity came to me and I was like, Oh, OK,
that's the name.
So then I searched it, and it already existed in
the States, undies for humanity, and it was like an
anti-Trump campaign or something. And I was like, Oh, OK. Yeah,
it was way back then. And I was like, Oh,
it's again now, isn't it? Um, and then I was like, Oh,
(15:46):
it's gone. I don't know why that came to me then.
And then I kept working on the range. I didn't.
I know the name of the brand. And I was
in the bathroom, and then the name, again, I just
like heard it in my ear. And I thought, OK, well,
I'll search it again and this time it was available.
Contacted the lawyer to get it registered. They said, You're
not gonna be able to register that. And I was like,
just try. They said, No, there's too many similar names.
(16:07):
I was like, just try.
Because it wasn't my idea. Like, and so I thought
it must be meant to be. And then she said, Oh,
it's actually came through. I'm really surprised, and it came
through really fast. And I was like, Yeah, of course.
Of course it did.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh my God, I love that. And
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I was also like studying sustainability, so for me it
was like I was trying to pull in all of
those learnings and
Do
Something that was thinking of every single touch point rather
than just in a really linear sort of way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And so when you're going through that process, I mean,
you speak of, you know, making notes, and you've got
your journal, this kind of thing. Are you, were you
a sort of a formal business planner? Like, I'm trying
to understand the balance between business logistics and that creativity
and flow.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
For me, um, no, there was not a business plan.
There was really trust that I was on the right path.
Yeah and
That if I want to have.
Really big impact. I just want to trust that and
and I also am an optimist. I'm like, let's just
do it. It'll work out. If it doesn't work out,
(17:19):
oh well, move on next thing.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (17:21):
yeah, yeah. Let's just try.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
100%. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And
I just think like, I don't know, I love that
there's that saying that if you aren't embarrassed by the
first thing you developed.
You launched too late or something. Oh
Speaker 1 (17:37):
really? I've not heard of that one. OK,
Speaker 2 (17:39):
because I think it's true it's never gonna be perfect.
You just got to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That's,
Speaker 2 (17:44):
you know.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, that's it, that's it. So
What did Underwear for Humanity launch as? Like, is it
the same model as it is now? Or it is? Yeah. OK.
So can you just share with the listener who may
not have heard of the group if they've been living
under a rock, um, what you actually do?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
OK, so it's an underwear brand, um, that believes in
the power of conscious consumption and that
We are creating the future we want to see now
with where we put our energy and what we spend
our money on, which is also energy and um that
You can buy your essentials, underwear, and at the same
(18:26):
time have a lot of powerful social and environmental good. Like,
thank you, hand wash, you know, that's not Tom's like
these concepts have existed before, but, um, we go really
deeply into being responsible environmentally as well. So if I'm
going to produce something and put it out in the world.
(18:47):
It's gonna, it's gonna cause like carbon emissions, it's.
It takes a lot of energy to produce anything. And so,
what's the lightest I can do with this, you know,
scientific research that I've done and how can I, how
can I make it the best it can possibly be?
So I invented my own recycled elastics that I couldn't get, and,
(19:08):
and so how can the product really stand up, be amazing,
long lasting, and
Be as responsible as possible. And then I also take
underwear back from all brands. So what about end of life?
How can I be more responsible? So we do underwear recycling. Um,
and then the other thing is our social good, which
(19:29):
is one for one underwear donation, um, mostly to women's shelters,
and we do a 50 cent rent payment for each
item sold that goes to, um, Aboriginal groups.
And we um.
Partner with
A work training program, uh, with Social Engine it's called,
(19:53):
and that's training Afghan women, uh, refugee women in Pick
and Park and work skills and getting their CV ready
to start working full time. Um, I think that's it. Yeah, yeah.
I always get a bit confused myself. There's actually quite
a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
There's so
much going on and I didn't realize just how much
until I started, you know, researching for our interview today,
it really
You know, I, I thought, I was thinking very surface level.
I didn't realize all of that went on. So, yeah, incredible, incredible.
So in those early days, um, you know, every entrepreneurial
(20:31):
journey has its challenges all throughout, really. Um, but I
can imagine in the fashion industry and even more so
in the sustainability sort of stream, what were some of
the most significant obstacles, you know, you faced in those
early stages?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I think um
Lack of faith from everyone around me. I don't think
anyone thought it was a good idea.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, in a circle, man. That's everything, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah. Even my partner actively said it was a bad idea,
and so that was, that was hard. Yeah. And, um,
he's definitely not as spiritually minded as, you know, driven
as me or focused, and I remember one day, one
day saying to him, look, it will work. Otherwise the
kookaburras wouldn't have told me. Yeah.
(21:19):
Because he's quite a blokey bloke, so he was like,
he just said, he was just, yeah, I said nothing
to that.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Don't mess with me in the kookaburras.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Don't mess with the abs. Yeah, so I think that's hard,
just that feeling of isolation, that you don't, you know,
not having support.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You've got you don't have, it feels like you don't
have someone in your corner.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Exactly. And then having, holding the faith that it's gonna
work when you're not getting that reflected back that it
could work. So.
Um, just going and holding strong, like that's still, I
still have to do that. I catch myself being like,
oh my gosh, this is not good. Oh yeah, it's
gonna be fine. I stay strong.
Keep the faith,
Speaker 1 (21:59):
100%.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, so I think that was really tricky, um.
Yeah, and for me it's always.
I, I find marketing quite tricky. Like I like storytelling,
but marketing is so complex and it can be.
There's so many people that say they're good at it,
some people are good at it, a lot of people
aren't that good at it, you know, and so how
(22:22):
do you know who to put your faith in or
spend the precious resources you have to start the business
with like that I think is always really hard. Yeah, um.
Yeah, answered the question, but.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No, well, those are some of the, you know, challenges
in that, in that space. And I guess how do
you overcome that? Like, you know, you'd said, when it's
your inner circle and that, you know, doubt, if you like,
you just go back to center and back to your
faith and, you know, which is also tough. So how
(22:55):
do you do that? Do you like, go out in
nature or do you like, just, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, I think walks in nature helped me a lot. Um,
I feel like I can become really clear and.
Um, yeah, that helps me a lot. I need to
do that more actually, I haven't been doing that lately
and I've been getting in my head more. But yeah,
it does help me if I can go for a
swim or go for a walk, um.
(23:21):
And not get too caught up, like, so easy to
get caught up in the little things and just try
and think bigger picture,
Speaker 1 (23:28):
the big goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And even let some of those things, little things fall
over rather than it taking up all your energy. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (23:36):
yeah, absolutely. So then when you're talking about the workaround for,
you know, the likes of marketing agencies and finding the
right people, what's been your strategy to, to work through
those challenges?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So I mostly work with freelancers because we're just so
little because we haven't had the budget really for an agency.
So we've been working with lots of different freelancers and
just a little bit hit and miss, but there's been
some amazing people as well. um yeah, that's what we do.
And then myself, I'm always trying to educate myself and
I do courses and things and
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think can keep a really strong handle on where
the ship's going in that space.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I think, yeah, I've avoided doing extra study in that way,
but I've started recently because I think if you've got
an econ brand, you absolutely have to understand it. Yeah.
I mean, I do understand it a bit, but really
a bit deeper.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah.
So I think raising capital to get started in business
can be a stumbling block for many. How did you
get started?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So I sold off all the stock from Silent Arrow, OK. Um,
and I had $100,000 to start Underwear for Humanity. So
that's how I did it.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So it's been running from that $100,000. Yeah. Um, and
Speaker 1 (24:58):
how long ago was that?
Was, was it 2020,
Speaker 2 (25:02):
202,020 I started but didn't launch until 21. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 (25:07):
yeah, incredible. And then there are also for, for your
business set up, there's often, you know, um, community grants
or community funding.
Programs and government grants and that kind of thing. Is
that something that you sort of keep across and have
managed to take advantage of at any point? I
Speaker 2 (25:23):
sort of, I don't seem to qualify for any of
the categories because, like, yes, I do underwear recycling, but
I don't physically do it myself. And then, you know, yes,
there's work training, but that's by a partnership and
You know, we do support some amazing Aboriginal projects, but
they're not our projects and so they're not, you know,
it's really tricky actually to qualify for any of those grants,
(25:46):
I find.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
However, I think I counted 7 certifications that underwear for
humanity has, including the PETA approved, um, vegan, the tensil
certified B Corp, and of course social traders. Did you
start out with all of those or did you pick
them up as you went along?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I started out with most of them. B Corp is
a long process, so it took about 9 months for
them to process my submission and also you have to
be in business for a year, OK, to be able
to apply. Um, so in Europe you can be be pending,
but in Australia and New Zealand, you have to be
(26:26):
operational for a year. Um, so I waited for that,
then I applied and then there was a big backlog.
So it took at least 9 months for them to
look at it and then there was a bit more
back and forth like submit this, you forgot this blah
blah blah, and then, yeah, got certified a year ago.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, right. So you didn't push out any timelines because
you were waiting for these certifications? No. Yeah. And I
think that goes back to that point we were talking
about earlier. I think sometimes it's so easy to get
caught up and waiting for everything to align and everything
to be perfect. And all the certifications locked away, and
you're wasting precious time in the market.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
You are. And, and
Most of the things we focus on and worry about,
people don't even notice. Like most people don't even know
that we donate one for one, even though that's pretty
basic part of the brand. So it's hard to get
a lot of messages across to people when their lives
are so full and there's so many messages too, so
many messages, yeah. So I think um it takes time
(27:28):
and not not to wait for things like that, like
things like certifications.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, I agree.
What was the nicest surprise during that startup process of
underwear for
Speaker 2 (27:38):
humanity before launching like the research stage. Yeah. Well, I
actually move really fast as a person, so I loved
that it was a bit slower and I had time
to perfect things and go back over it, because that's
not really my style. So I really enjoyed that. That
was during all the lockdowns and um things were moving
(27:59):
slower anyway with getting answers on things and samples and stuff, so.
Yeah, I really enjoyed the pace. It's hard for me
to make myself do that. So it was, it was
really good.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
That
Speaker 2 (28:12):
is
Speaker 1 (28:12):
a lovely surprise. And on the flip side, what were
some of the toughest challenges? It sounds like you may
have just answered those actually. Research in COVID times. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (28:22):
that was definitely.
Definitely a hurdle and I had to just be patient
and say well we just won't launch it, that's OK, um.
But
Yeah, I don't know actually, um.
Even
I guess, I guess the lack of faith from people
because even the, even the people that did my website,
(28:43):
they said, launch without the recycling, don't, it's too many questions,
it's too many messages, you're gonna confuse people. And I said,
you know, I think people are really smart and I
think they'll understand that we need to be responsible for
the things we put out in the world. So I'm
not gonna wait for that. Yeah. Just that I, it
is an unusual business and it's level of, you know,
being really conscientious. So it's hard for people to have
(29:06):
faith in that.
And, um, when we did launch, one of the, um,
items sold out really fast and I just couldn't get
back into stock because I couldn't get the recycled nylon
fiber in the fiber market to be able to knit
the elastic. So I just had to delay it. Like
(29:27):
I just had to not have it for 6 months,
even though it was the best seller. And that's it
was hard for people to understand that. Yeah.
around me. Like, why wouldn't you just use market available
elastic and you just have it in, have it for sale?
It's like, well, what's the point of that? Yeah, another
underwear brand.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, yeah, right. That's incredible. So how did you launch then?
What were some of the key pillars that you sort
of attribute to your successful launch, which is, you know,
selling out of selling out of line, it's impressive.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Um, I kept
The Instagram account from Silent Arrow, OK, and renamed it
and introduced the brand to the people, because there was
so much blood, sweat and tears to gain those followers. Yeah, yeah,
so much energy, um.
(30:20):
And why just introduced the brand, I hoped that there
was enough crossover in values that people would still enjoy,
follow it, like the brand. Some people dropped off but
we didn't have very much drop off. So I think
that really helped that we were able to bring in
Our old community to the new community,
Speaker 1 (30:39):
leveraging that. Yeah, yeah, that's incredible.
Um, so then we're talking about mission, you've shared, you know,
a lot of what you do, but do you have
a mission statement?
I like,
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I wish I did, hey. Yeah, it'd be so cool,
wouldn't it? Yeah, I could just like roll it off. Yeah.
But you know, I've I've tried so many times. I
wonder if a really good mission statement just has to
take time to evolve. Like, I wonder, just
Speaker 1 (31:10):
jotting down some power words that keep coming to you. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I've got a few. I've had a few over the period,
but none have like really, really stuck yet.
I'm still getting to know it myself in a way,
you know, like a brand has its own life and.
I just, I'm still getting to know him. Yeah, I
think I want a really cool one though, think of anything. Wow,
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I'm
right into storytelling and discovery sessions, so maybe we should
have a session, yes.
Oh God. So, OK, so then, aside from that, obviously
focusing on a lot more than just profit, how do
you balance the financial needs of the business with its
social mission?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Um,
I'm not great at it, um.
So, I have some help from my other business, uh,
some pro bono hours to help on this business. And
so someone's looking after, um, donations for me. Great. And
I noticed when I look after it, that anyone who
says that they're in dire need of underwear or they're
(32:15):
really trying to get it to these women, I, I can't,
how do you say no to anybody. So I just
really can't do that that role, and
Um, always over donating and, um, you know, it's just
a cost, isn't it, for business as well, so.
That's a bit tricky. Um, OK, for me, um, it
(32:36):
was important that we donated prior to making profit. So
I didn't want to have some bullshit thing that, oh,
we donate one for one, but not until we're profitable
and it may take 2 years to be profitable. Yeah,
fine print. Yeah. So we donate as we go, um,
we donate monthly and um that's just because of admin
(32:56):
and resources. Yeah, but yeah, so we just donate and um.
So
That because of the business it is, has to be
a priority above profit. Otherwise there's no point doing it.
I love that. Yeah, so it is an unusual business
I know but um.
Yeah, the social good uh commitments have to come, have
(33:19):
to come first and um.
I just want to be able to stay in business.
Like that's the sort of goal, like stay in business
and do as much social good as possible. Yes, so
we didn't do as well this financial year as last
financial year, but actually our units were up, so which
means that we donated more. Yes, so our financials were down.
(33:41):
But our units were up.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yes,
Speaker 2 (33:42):
so we actually did achieve more.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yes,
Speaker 2 (33:45):
yes.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So incredible.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
That's exciting for me.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That's really exciting. So I guess that, you know, that
actually really leads me on to, you know, um, measures
of success because I find it quite fascinating to discuss
with different entrepreneurs what their
measures of success are because obviously they're different in every business,
but then they're also different in every stage of business.
And it's interesting how they move and, and shift along
(34:10):
the way. So what would you say your measures of
success for the business are, what would you 4 years,
5 years into it?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, so 3 years since launch, 3
Speaker 1 (34:20):
years since launch,
Speaker 2 (34:22):
just over. Yeah, yeah, but it is about the other, yeah,
since starting the research. Um.
So having, so we, we give away a lot of underwear,
we recycle a lot of underwear, like thousands and
That's wonderful, but it's the human factor for me when
I feel that it's been successful, so.
(34:43):
When I go to the pick and pack and I'm
speaking to a woman from Afghanistan and she is,
Excited to be in a work training program because she's
been so restricted for so long and unable to work
on her journey to get to Australia, which can be
6 years long. Yeah, um, and
I have a conversation with another human being who's, you know,
(35:06):
they've they've had such difficulty, but they come with such
positivity and hope and and that there's an opportunity for her.
And then, you know, that's what, that's what feels like
success to me. Cause the underwear donations we're we're past
33,000 now and
It's wonderful because I know it has a big impact,
but I don't see the women who get it. Like
(35:27):
I speak to the social workers, um, a lot of
women uh background of domestic violence, and I think it's 80%
of homelessness from domestic violence, so those women are terrified,
they don't want to be identified, you know, they're, they're
they're in hiding, and so it's just really nice to
have a direct human to human conversation and feel that
you're having a positive impact on someone else's life.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that, yeah. So my, my next question was gonna
be what your personal, you know, measures of success are
at this stage of your business, but just, yeah, they're
all intertwined, right? They're all as a business owner and then,
you know, personally knowing that you've been able to make
a difference to these people's life stories.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
But I guess, yeah, I guess going backwards then from
a business perspective, like I don't want the brand to
be niche. I don't want it to be, I want
to actually
Be taking market share from extractive brands. Like I want
people who are wearing bonds to say, oh, I'll wear
underwear for humanity instead, because you know it's 50% lower
in emissions, so that already has an impact, but then
(36:34):
all of the knock-on effects of that money where it
goes to. So I just don't want to be little
and not have um the impact I'm looking for. Like
I really want to affect a lot of people's lives.
So I want the business to scale, and I think
Um, being successful and being visible as a business means
(36:54):
we'll sell more product, which means we donate more. So
that's a measure for me too,
Speaker 1 (37:03):
yeah, that's the end point it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. One
of my next questions was, what are some of the
tangible impacts you've seen as a result of your work?
We've spoken about stories, um,
And how has the community reacted to your products and purpose?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So
Yes, it wasn't yesterday, it was a few days ago actually. Um,
I was working on the website and, um,
I started reading all of the reviews and I just,
I felt like crying. I absolutely loved it. The reviews
were really beautiful, um, and
So many words of support that we're like in it together. Yes, yes, beautiful.
(37:47):
It's so wonderful. Yeah. And I was thinking I need
to read these reviews.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
I was
just gonna say you need to have those moments where,
you know, you're getting, you know, a little bit of
pushback from your inner circle. You just need to go
back and read your reviews, really, don't you? Yeah, because
into perspective because those are the people who you are serving,
Speaker 2 (38:06):
and we're doing it together. They're, they're my people. Yes,
Speaker 1 (38:10):
that's your tribe. I love that. Yeah, yeah. For aspiring
social entrepreneurs, what advice would you give about integrating social
cause into a business model?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Um, I think that.
There are so many ways, um, I think.
I think supply chain is a really easy way of
bringing social good into a lot of businesses, um, specifically. Well,
I think when you think of my warehousing, for example,
that's an easy way to have social good as a
(38:43):
partnership with someone who's doing already good. Um, if it's
a bigger business, you know, it's around, you can be
the stationary that you get from like um Green Connect or,
you know, there's so many amazing businesses out there.
Um, that you can link into as part of your
business structure, um.
Yeah, but I think for an aspiring social entrepreneur, I
(39:05):
think it's really important to look at what else is
out there. Sometimes I see um social enterprises, um, doing
something that's already like a lot of it's been done
already and I wonder if it's gonna have the impact
they want and they're really little, and they're working really hard.
We've
Speaker 1 (39:23):
got a big fight. Yeah, they've got a
big fight.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
So I do think
There needs to be a need and um.
That you can tap into to serve that need, you know,
if it's too little.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
So getting really, really clear on what your mission is,
getting really clear on where you fit into the market,
who your competitor set is, and how you're gonna compete.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, absolutely. Make sure it's needed as well. The social
side of it is needed.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul, now I feel like every week at the moment,
you're sharing well-deserved big wins on social, so I want
to take a moment and say congrats for a bloody
huge year. Thank you so much. Most recently, the New
South Wales accelerating women, um, winner at the Telstra Best
(40:14):
of Business Awards. That was a mouthful. Yeah. A huge
field of over 22,000 businesses.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, it's
Speaker 1 (40:24):
amazing.
Yeah. Prior to that coming in at #4 and the
Ragtrader top 4 B Corp, Australian New Zealand brands and fashion.
Panel speaker at the Social Enterprise festival, sustainable leadership and
e-commerce and
E-commerce Industry Award at the Banksia Foundation sustainably sustainability Awards.
(40:46):
The list just goes on. What has been the benefit
to your business and securing these accolades?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Well, I think that it's an unusual business and um,
People who are into sustainability and social good.
are my people and I think they discover the brand
and then become advocates for the brand, which is exactly,
you know, what we need. So, um, I think
The good thing about awards is visibility. Um, it's certainly
(41:17):
been good for me on a personal level. Well,
Speaker 1 (41:19):
that
was gonna be my next question. You've obviously got the
business benefits, but you know, there's personal, there's that layer
of personal benefits as
well,
Speaker 2 (41:27):
right? Yeah, there's just, um, I got off the phone
with Telstra and it was like this kind of glow.
I was just like, I was gonna stop and it's
just like the sun shining on me for a moment
and just go, oh.
OK, so all that stress and sleepless nights and worrying
financially all the time about the business and just to
be recognized and.
(41:49):
Um, it's, it's actually hard to find the words, to
be honest. It feels so good to be acknowledged and
seen and and know that it's not just in my head,
because part of me still thinks it's actually just in
my head and no one else can see it almost. Yeah,
it's
Speaker 1 (42:05):
just you and the kookaburras.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, just me and the kookaburras and a pair of undies.
Oh my God. Can you see it? You've actually, yeah,
Speaker 1 (42:15):
yeah, I see it. I'm there with you.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's
huge.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
It's huge. It feels really, really good. Yeah. It feels
like I'm on the right track, you know, it's like
a little signpost to say, we see you, you're doing
the right thing. I know it seems hard, but it's good.
Keep going, keep
Speaker 1 (42:36):
swimming, keep swimming. Would you recommend businesses, um,
You know, perhaps a bit further back down the road
than you are now. Take the time to get involved
with award submissions. What's your advice on, you know, on
that whole process?
Speaker 2 (42:56):
I think I personally think it's really good because we
don't have huge marketing spend and being able to get
our name out there is massive. Um, I also think
the process, um,
Of doing those applications, you learn about your business, like
it really helps you focus and helps you understand what
(43:16):
some of your weaknesses are. Um, certainly the Telstra one
is really comprehensive. The last stage took me about 14
hours to do stage 3.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Huge submissions, yeah,
Speaker 2 (43:27):
and just going over it and going over it again
and going, oh, actually that sounds shit. I need to
rewrite that one again.
Yeah, but I did learn a lot. I've actually learned
so much and I'm really focused now because of those on, OK,
where's the financial weakness? What do I need to do, um,
really delving deep into, are my ads working or is
(43:50):
my website conversion not working? Like which part is the
weakness and
Speaker 1 (43:56):
a real
deep dive. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (43:58):
really understanding.
Um,
What I need to do to get.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
So even not taking or even if you weren't to
take away the wing, it would certainly provide you with
a pretty comprehensive to do list. Yeah. As the founder
and driver of this business, what are some of the
personal characteristics that you have that has enabled you to
be so successful in this business so
far?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I'm um.
Really tenacious, yeah, and determined. Yeah, um, and I'm really optimistic.
And so.
And
Hopefully I'm open to failure too, you know, like I,
certainly on a theoretical level, I do understand that failure
(44:47):
is part of succeeding and that you, that's how you learn, um.
So yeah, I think.
I'm really driven. That has helped me.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, absolutely. So when you talk about, you know, a failure,
have you had sort of one big failure that you
can
You know, recollect fairly recently that you have learned from and,
and got back up from.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
So many failures, let me
Speaker 1 (45:18):
think. What's the stand out?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I guess it goes back to marketing again, where I
was working with a freelancer and um.
I believed, I mean, I think they were great in
some level, but the maths that they were doing and
what we needed as a return to still,
(45:41):
Be growing as a business and having the impact we have, um,
was a bit off, and I think I should have
fully taken responsibility for those numbers, rather than trust somebody else. Yeah,
because on retrospect, it's kind of caused us to
Really, um, slow down on our sales and our revenue. So, OK,
(46:04):
had to really stop and take and I've learned so
much from that, that's why I'm going so deep. Yeah,
because I really have to take responsibility for it and
understand the metrics and.
Yeah. What does my average order value you need to
be and
Speaker 1 (46:20):
what's your return on ads been looking like?
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what's wrong with the site? Is
it converting where it needs to or um.
And the creative and yeah.
Yeah, it's it's interesting. It was definitely a bit of
a fail though. I tried for 6 months. It's really affected,
Speaker 1 (46:38):
and that's a bit of fair chunk of revenue too,
isn't it? 6 months of marketing phase. I
Speaker 2 (46:43):
really wanted to try. I was really like, yes, I'm
gonna keep trying, yeah, yeah. But because at the same time,
you know, you speak to anybody about ads, you can't
just make
You have to at least give them 4 weeks, like
the
learning phase and things
Speaker 1 (46:58):
like yeah. But
Speaker 2 (47:00):
yeah, I think that's a bit of a fail. Yeah.
There's so many. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 (47:05):
yeah. So what happens? You just suck it up and go, right,
I need to educate myself more on this.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Terminate the contract and work out what your next step is. Yeah, right.
Here's another question that I often ask entrepreneurs, because I'm
always surprised at the answer. Do you, or maybe have
you in the past, encountered self-doubt and or impostor syndrome?
We've talked about, you know, your moments of, of self-doubt, maybe. Um,
(47:37):
but are there any moments where you've
I've actually almost felt paralyzed by
it.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
The biggest gift for me has been turning 50. So
after I turned 50, all of that gets a lot easier.
So any women that are under 50, just, you know,
you have that to look forward to. I can't speak
for a man, but a lot of my friends feel
the same. And I feel like
Actually, I have 22 years doing underwear. Actually, I'm gonna,
(48:02):
I'm the right person to be doing this, you know, like, yeah,
there are a lot of reasons I'm in the position
I am right now to do this. It's not a
random thing. And so, and I know a lot about
sustainability and so these things have come together. So I
actually don't feel imposter syndrome, um, but I have when
I was younger, so I do, I'm not like full
(48:23):
narcissist that.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
You're not immune to it. You've,
Speaker 2 (48:29):
I have.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
And how did you work through it at that time
when you were experiencing it?
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I
think I found it incredibly stressful. Yeah, and I think
I felt like everybody else knew more than I knew
and
Why would they be interested in me, you know, I
think it's, I think it's really challenging. But thank God
as you get older, it just gets a bit easier.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
And I think like you'd mentioned, you know, some of
your personal characteristics like tenacity and determination can actually push
you through that to an extent, right? Because you're so
committed to your vision.
And you've got that real determination that it may visit
you and sit, you know, alongside you, but it's not
(49:13):
going to stop you.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
There
is one thing I think that's worth mentioning and that
is um
Remembering that the cause is much bigger than you as
an individual, and so I can always lean on that.
If I start to get in my head. I love that.
And so, for example, I don't like being in front
of the camera. I don't like any attention at all, actually. um,
(49:38):
and so doing video content is important for the brand
because people want to know.
Who's behind the brand and are you full of shit
or you know are you legit. So I understand for
a believability thing like I do have to do video content,
which I've gotten more used to and um I do it,
I don't even look at it. I just post it. Yeah.
(49:59):
And it's because I, I have got into my head
now that
Actually, it's not about me. It's not me at all.
And and no one else notices that my voice sounded
funny there or why were you wearing that top? Like
no one else cares. So it's like, whatever, just post it.
If you can donate another 10 pairs of undies because
(50:19):
of that video, that's what's important. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
100%. 100% think of the stay focused on that bigger cause.
It's not about you. Yeah, I love it.
What do you value most about your business journey so far?
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Um, I just love that I work with my values.
I just feel so lucky that I every day am
doing that. I'm not compromising. Yeah, there's things I don't
want to do. I don't like doing budgets and
Um,
Marketing. I don't love doing marketing. Like I said, I
(50:59):
love stories.
Yeah, I love storytelling, but like connection. I like connection
with people, but marketing to sell things I don't like
at all, um.
But I do, I'm not compromising on what I believe in,
and that's a very fortunate position to be in. I'm
aware of that, very fortunate. I spent a lot of
(51:19):
time in my career having to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (51:23):
that's incredible. Yeah. So for the listener who has started
out on their own business journey might be a struggling
a little bit with their business mojo, what pills of
wisdom would you share?
Speaker 2 (51:36):
I think like working with your heart rather than your
head is really important and what is what feels right
for you and that will tell you really quickly, like
your body has all the answers actually, um.
If you can feel in what feels right for you,
I think just to check that you're on track, you know,
sometimes we dig our heels in when we don't, we
(51:56):
need to let go and, and sometimes we really just
need to like, work hard at it, and it's sometimes
really hard to differentiate those, but really just try and
connect in and feel what's right for your journey and
what you're being called to do.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
And cut out the noise, right?
What about the listener who's looking at a social enterprise
or not for profit business model? What can you share
that would have been good to know when you started over,
when you started out, I should say.
But
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Um, what I wish I'd known.
Um, is that there are some really good networks that
you can plug into early on, like Senvic, um, yeah,
where you can connect with other social enterprises, know what
else is going on out there, um, social events and things,
(52:48):
just to stop that isolation and get a real feeling
for the whole sector. And that's how I met Social Engine,
by the way, who does the pick and pack.
Yeah, right, um, yeah, from a Sanvic thing that my
friend took me to. I didn't know about it, but
she took me in. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 (53:05):
perfect, yeah.
So where do you see underwear for humanity in the
next 5 years? How exciting developments have you got happening?
Speaker 2 (53:14):
I would really love to have a good presence at retail. Like,
I would love a 3 pack of undies and Woolies,
so you, you can just grab them and actually you're
having massive impact in the background. Something like, yeah, it
doesn't have to be Woolies, but yeah, that's what I
imagine like a retail presence. Yeah, um.
(53:34):
And I'm working on that with some smaller retailers, and
hopefully that just grows into being something really substantial. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
Beautiful. I love it. And, um, what, you know, how
do you see the ethical fashion industry evolving and, and
what role do you see your business playing in that evolution?
Speaker 2 (53:57):
I think that fashion.
Has so many fundamental flaws, um.
When I was studying over 20 years ago, then I
came back exactly almost 20 years later, actually I started
um sustainability, fashion sustainability and,
(54:19):
It was so interesting like reflecting on my thesis 20
years before and then working on the problem 20 years
later and my thesis was around,
Speaker 1 (54:29):
isn't it? Like
Speaker 2 (54:30):
20 years was an explosion of fast fashion. Yeah, it
really like we think it's normal now, but actually it's
only very recent. we're talking 20 years and billions upon
billions of clothing waste, clogging up waterways.
Um,
Yeah, methane release as it breaks down, like it's just
(54:52):
it's such a massive problem and ethical, um, yeah, people
are still, people are obviously going super fast to try
and be sustainable because there's consumer pressure as well, so
much consumer pressure um but ethical, I think, which is
a little bit less visible. I, I wonder.
(55:15):
If it's going fast enough at all, to be honest.
I went to um a sustainable clothing forum in um
Singapore and normally it's in the northern hemisphere and they said, um,
cause it's close to makers, they'd have the voice of
makers at this one and it was incredible to hear
(55:36):
some of the unions from um Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and
India and how the women are working.
Very, very, very long hours but can't afford more than
one meal a day to feed their family, and.
The immoral thing as well is so much sacrifice is
(55:57):
made for something.
In the global north, including Australia, rich countries where something
can be worn once or not even worn, still has
the tags on it. All of the emissions that have
happened to get that there, but all of the people's
lives that have been affected, it's, it's quite, it's quite scary.
(56:19):
There's a lot to be done still. Yeah. It's a
lot of it is invisible.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah,
yeah. So what
Yeah, what, what role do you hope your business will
play in all this work that still needs to be done?
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Hopefully people see what's possible, you know, that it's possible
to do.
To go quite deep with um, how, how things are
ethically created, um.
And certifications and.
Not that they're perfect. I'm not saying certifications and everything,
(56:58):
but they're definitely a start. Um, hopefully it's a good
influence on the industry. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (57:08):
yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2 (57:09):
just, I just think we need to see it, you know,
the more examples we see, the more opportunity there is
for change.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
So really pushing your brand awareness.
I, yeah, would be a key focus to, to really
show people how it's done.
Good on you, Kelly. I could speak to you all night,
but we don't have all night. Um, this was so
worth the wait. I've loved spending time with you today.
(57:40):
Thank you for making time in your busy Melbourne schedule.
I really, really do appreciate. I loved hearing your business journey,
the ins and outs of it, um,
You're so authentic and, um, your brand is so authentic
and it's so refreshing. It's so refreshing. So,
Speaker 2 (57:59):
thank
you. Thanks. You've
inspired.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, you've, you've inspired me to actually really reconnect with
my obligations. So I'm sure you're gonna do the same
for all of our lovely listeners. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
Pleasure. Thank you.
Thank you for joining us here on the buzz. For
episode highlights and nuggets of inspiration to keep you motivated
in your business, head to Karen Heartbuzz on Instagram. This
podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I would love
(58:35):
it if you could subscribe, rate, comment, and of course,
share the buzz.