The Buzz | Tess Woolcock from Pop Publicity

After two seasons of scheduling twists, jet-setting adventures, and countless commitments in fashion, beauty, travel, and PR, today is the day! I’m thrilled to welcome fellow Kiwi and absolute powerhouse, Tess Woolcock, to the show.

Tess’s career spans both sides of the Tasman—starting in newsrooms like TVNZ, Network Ten, Nine, and Seven Network. She’s interviewed Hollywood’s elite, navigated life in LA and New York, and in 2020, took the leap to launch her own PR company, Pop Publicity.

We’re diving deep into Tess’s fascinating journey—from her psychology studies to life in journalism, the glitz of entertainment news, and the realities of building a business. Expect real talk, PR myth-busting, and plenty of inspiration for anyone dreaming of their own entrepreneurial leap.

So buckle up—it’s going to be a juicy one. Join me as I sit down with the fabulous Tess Woolcock.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ok.
After two seasons of scheduling twists, jet setting adventures and
countless commitments in fashion, beauty travel and pr today is
the day. I'm thrilled to welcome fellow Kiwi and absolute
powerhouse Tess Wolcott to the show, Tess's career spans both
sides of the Tasman. Starting in newsrooms like TV

(00:22):
NZ Network 10, 9 and seven network. She's interviewed Hollywood's elite,
navigated life in L A and New York and in
2020 took the leap to launch her own pr company
pop publicity. We're diving deep into Tessa's fascinating journey from
her psychology studies to life and journalism,

(00:42):
the glitz of entertainment news and the realities of building
a business. So buckle up, it's gonna be a juicy one.
Join me as I sit down with the Fabulous Tess Woolcock.
Welcome to the buzz test. Thank
you

Speaker 2 (00:58):
for having me, Karen. This is exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
So

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I know
I did a bit of research and your um uni
degree was actually a b um majoring in psychology.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
My first one, I've got three.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I
know your first one. So what, what, what happened? Like,
what were you thinking? Psychology?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Um I think,
I think grow up like as a child, I always
wanted to be a journalist. But I think like, any
teenager you have your teenage angst. And because I went
through my teenage angst, I thought, you know, what psychology
would be a much better, a much better fit for me. So, um, so, yeah,
so I just, I gave it a try. I found

(01:43):
it fascinating. I found it really interesting. So, I did
that at UNI, I actually started doing law and psychology
because my mom and dad wanted me to be a
lawyer and I found
that dull and then just continued to psych and I
really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
So, what were you thinking? Were you thinking you'd play
it into the journalism space or were you thinking?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
I wanted to be a clinical psychologist at my age.
I was straight out of school. It's actually really hard
to do at Auckland University. Like they want someone who's
got a bit of life experience or who had some
kind of, you know, journey. And I was like, you know,
by the time I went to the clinical program, I
would have been like 20. So I didn't really have
much to kind of draw upon for that. So I

(02:23):
tried organizational psychology. I did that. Um I did my
first Masters degree in that. And while I was doing that,
I was working at like at a recruitment company doing
psychometric test, which I kind of enjoyed. But I was
like the youngest person um at the agency and one
of the other, you know, when you're a young person working,

(02:44):
they give you other random jobs. One of the other
random jobs they gave me is, can you just stay
across the news
and like news trends and things? And I found I
was enjoying that so much more than doing the psychometric testing.
I had a bit of epiphany. I was like, you
know what, I love people. I love hearing these stories,
but I also kind of want to tell their stories.

(03:05):
So I went back to UNI did a one year
graduate diploma in journalism and then from there became a
journalist and went straight to TV NZ. Like that was
my first job.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
So that was, yeah, definitely.
The career you're envisaging and you landed it in your
first job. Congratulations. Yeah. Wow. Because it's a tough industry
to get into. Right. So

Speaker 2 (03:27):
it is. But I was proactive and I think, um
back then, gosh, this was, you know, like 2006, 2007.
You really had to be. So to get into the
course I got into was highly competitive anyway, like a
really intense selection process because it was a one year,
um, degree in journalism if you had an existing degree.

(03:50):
Um And so once I got into that, I knew
that a lot of the people wanted to do television
and only two interns were selected. So I just approached
TV NZ, like, independently and started working there for free
during the year. So when it came time to select
the interns, I knew everyone. I'd been working in the newsroom.
I've been in there doing stuff for free for like
a year. It was an obvious choice that I would

(04:12):
probably be one of those people.
So, and because of that, it kind of fast tracked
things because I'd learned how to work the news desk,
which is the entry level job that I was doing shifts.
And they actually did start paying me fortunately because I
was doing overnight shifts, you know, manning back then we
had scanners, you could hear like breaking news, these, like,
weird people that would call up the newsroom. There's a

(04:34):
fire in West Auckland. I made friends with the weird,
they had

Speaker 1 (04:40):
all these connections.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
So why would they not, you know, 100

Speaker 1 (04:44):
percent? And I think that's a really great piece of
advice actually for people wanting to get into an industry
that is sought after. Um, if you can volunteer, right.
Get some hours down. I know how

Speaker 2 (04:58):
legal it is these days though. But back then, you know, flew.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So, um, what
was it all that you expected it to be in
those early days?

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Uh, no, I don't know what I expected really. But,

Speaker 1 (05:16):
but

Speaker 2 (05:16):
yeah, I think you think, you know, you work in
television and you're going to go straight into being on air.
I know that's such a stupid thing to think because
obviously that doesn't happen. Um, but I don't think I
appreciated how grueling the hours were. So when you first start, um, TV,
NZ back, the one news was a 24 hour news
and as I said, we had the scanners and stuff.
So it was manned by a young person usually in

(05:40):
the overnight shifts. So I would do a week of,
I think it was a 11 pm to 7 a.m.
shift for a week, like Sunday to Thursday. And you're
the only person in the building for the majority of
that time, the breakfast team would come in at about
334 but 11 pm until three in the morning, you're
the only person apart from security guard and this huge

(06:01):
big television
and it's quite frightening and quite isolating and lonely and
the phones might not go, but then it can be
dead as a door now. But then if something breaks
internationally or locally it's all on you. So there's quite
a high sense of responsibility on that. So,

Speaker 1 (06:20):
what do you do? You have to call in different,
you've got to wake people up.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
So you're only going to be waking people up if
you need to have that,
that understanding of what makes news and what's an emergency
and what's not. And, you know, that's a really kind
of gray area. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (06:38):
100%. And if you just thought, oh no, it's not
a big deal. And then

Speaker 2 (06:46):
there was a lot of pressure but then a lot
of downtime obviously
as well. Um And so yeah, so I did those and,
you know, no one wants to do that shift. The
rosters would come out. Oh God. But you had, I
think a week rotation of them a month and then
you do other shifts as well. So you were getting
to do bits and pieces. But, but that was part
of it that I really didn't enjoy. And I did

(07:07):
that overnight shift. I'd say for at least my first year,
like a week, a week of a

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah. Right. So I was not really in the expectation.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
No. Well, you know, that, you know, and because I
went for the breakfast, which, you know, I think it
was like a 3 34 30 AM start. You expect that.
But like overnight, I didn't expect that.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
What about your biggest surprise? Like your biggest, ah, that,
you know, that was really, when you look back on
that time,
a really impactful moment where you kind of thought. I
am so glad I'm here. I know this is my,
this is my calling.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well, I
think one of the other things I found really great
about the TV NZ news room back then is that
if you were proactive, they were really accommodating to that.
Meaning like I was, you know, a very junior person
in the, in the newsroom and intern. But I came
up with story ideas for, I think we had
like an early morning, like, business news show before breakfast.
And I came up with some idea and I was like,

(08:09):
I want to do a story. I'm doing a story
and I'd like, sit down with the news director and
be like, this is what I'm doing and they're like, ok, well,
the camera obviously goes to the six o'clock news reporters
are the important people. But if there's a quiet time,
come in in your own time and, and, and, and
do this story and I would come in my camera
every time would be taken away from me.
You're like, planning a whole day organizing these interviews, you're

(08:31):
sorting all this out. But finally it happened and I
was able to do it and I got my first story, like,
what was it? It was something to do with some
business program in schools with primary school because that's why
it was so frustrating because I had to get the schools. Ok.
I had to have all these parental consent for the
kids involved. And it was, it was a lot of,

(08:52):
you know, logistics involved to shoot this story. But it
went really well and I think
doing that then they're like, oh, right. Ok. Well, we'll
finally give tess some opportunity. And the other thing is,
I think one time I was on that horrible overnight shift.
And you know, me, I love to always be well grown.
I would always turn up even to that shitty overnight
shift looking like I was ready to go on camera

(09:14):
and it was just me because of who I am. Anyway.
One time I turn up there, you know, and the
breakfast team come in and the reporter for the, for
the breakfast show in Auckland
called in sick and there was something they needed to
send someone off to. And the other girl that was
producing just, you know, was turned up in a cheese
and I was like, me, I'll do it and they

(09:35):
were like, all right, we'll give you a shot. And,
because I had turned up, look in the park ready
to go was sent off.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
There's so
much gold in that alone test, you know? And I
feel like I actually feel like that that's kind of
old school, you know, work ethic and always be prepared
and
never say no. And, you know, um, are all things
that I feel like are a little bit lost in,
in today's young people going into the workforce. Yeah. I

(10:06):
just think it's a really lost art and I think
that's some really great, great advice. There always be

Speaker 2 (10:11):
prepared.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah. So,
I guess in those early days of journalism, did you
ever think I'm going to go out on my own
one day? No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
I
was brought up um, so my, my mom's Croatian and
my Croatian family were quite strong and it was very much, um,
you're going to be the first one, you know, since
we've moved to New Zealand and immigrated here to go
to university and get a job and, and, and do
the things. There was never this, like, even though to
be fair, they actually had their own businesses. It was very,

(10:47):
it was very ingrained in me that I was, I
was the one that was the smart one in the family.
I was the one that was going to go and
do these things that hadn't been done before and go
to university. They really wanted to me to, you know, potentially,
you know, do law or do something
along those lines because I've always been a good communicator
and it was like, you will go to university and
you will get a job and same like my dad, he's, he's,

(11:08):
he's a, you know, a corporate man and he's, he's
worked his way in his industry to the top, but
he's always worked until now. Actually, he now works for himself. But,
but he had always worked in big corporations, big corporations.
So I think the expectation was you work for a
company where I see with my clients now and I
absolutely love it. And I want to foster this obviously

(11:29):
and
I talk as well, you know, these 1920 year olds,
I'm starting my own business I'm not going to work
for anyone else. It's this ambitious, driven, motivated attitude and worldview,
which I definitely did not have at that point, but
I don't think that it was, it was normal. Like,
you know, the path then was we go to university,

(11:51):
we get a good job. And I know maybe down
the track you could start a business, but it was
never like you needed to have that credibility.
You need to have that grounding that base before you
could go off and do those things where I think
now the world is way more dynamic and there isn't
this sort of rule book that, that's the part you
can do it either you want whenever
you want.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
And I think, you know, COVID had a bit to
do with that too because like, yeah, we can work
from anywhere in the world. Yeah, we can, you know, um,
dial in for meetings, like, yeah, we can and which
then sort of unleash that actually we can have our own,
we can do that. Yeah, it really has.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
And I think for me when I finally made that transition, I,
I was like, why did I not do this so
long ago?

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Ok. Ok. So we'll get to that. But, um, yeah, obviously.
So in those early days, you moved around a bit
during that time, which is that, um, that's normal within
the industry
you need to

Speaker 2 (12:49):
if you want to. Um, so basically get, get more opportunity.
So if you have a role,
breakfast, say here, then you want like a six o'clock
news roll here. So you move around and also that's
how you get more money. And I'll be honest, it
was atrocious pay. That's not good. Yeah. And you do
it for the passion and you worked to the ground
like it's long, long hours paid absolute nothing because you're

(13:13):
so replaceable. There's so many people that want that job.
So it's like minimum wage sort of stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So
during that time of, of, of movement, would you say
it was more of an organic or an opportunity to
come here and off you go or were you, did
you have something in mind that you really wanted to
achieve

Speaker 2 (13:34):
well, to be fair in New Zealand when I first started,
I was only ever a TV NZ and I was
there for a chunk of time and then I wanted
to move to Sydney. So that sort of prompted that.
And then I, when I moved to Sydney, yes, it
was definitely a case of, you know, I've moved to
a new country as a broadcaster back then.
I had a real issue with a New Zealand accent.
And also you have to start from the beginning again.

(13:56):
So I literally, my first, my first job was actually
at seven and I was, I was freelancing on sunrise,
which I enjoyed, but it was freelance and I really
wanted something concrete because I was on my own in
a new country. And it's quite scary and I literally
was one of those people that had no savings and
I was earning much better money, but it was a

(14:16):
scary time. So I wanted something kind of locked in
and my first permanent full time role was at channel 10.
But again, they put me on the overnight shift. So
you go backwards. I've been, you know, doing six o'clock
news reporting on one news in New Zealand, which is
like the top thing you can do to then go
back to being on that, that news desk. And

Speaker 1 (14:35):
so there was no, no value from that moving into.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
It
was like you, it basically was like you'd come from
the regions and now you're in the big,

Speaker 1 (14:48):
did you realize that would happen when you moved over?

Speaker 2 (14:51):
No, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
No. Would you, you would have done it because you
do need that exposure, don't you? As much as we
love New Zealand?

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I wanted to move. So it was fine. But yeah,
I really had to and I had to do that
same proactive stuff. So I started being like, you know,
can I do stories? Can I have the
training? Can I do this? And literally did that exact
same thing I had done at TV. NZ I did
again at channel 10. And, you know, and quickly they
saw how eager I was, I started presenting my own
digital show called The Weird News, which is all me

(15:25):
kind of coming up with, what could I do? How
could I have an opportunity? And then they saw that.
So then I started doing presenting. So then I started
being able to report on the morning news. So, and
they gave me voice training. However, they said
I wasn't allowed to do serious news stories because my
accent was too distracting. I had to stick to the,
the life.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
That's so fun. Well, you know what? You're that person anyway. Right.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Exactly. Exactly. So, um, so, yeah, so there was no
more crime or court reporting or shooting for me.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
It was just fashion lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Love it.
Love it.
And now over that time is that when you met
the father of your gorgeous young lady?

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Oh, no, I, I knew him before when I knew
he was a journalist. So we were friends. So,

Speaker 1 (16:16):
you moved together? No, no,

Speaker 2 (16:17):
no, no, no, no. I,
um, and then he, he came, maybe a couple of
years later and we were friends during that time. I
think we got together. No, I would have been at
channel 10 when we got together just before I went
to nine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
And was it easier dating someone in the industry?

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Um, I think when you're in Sydney it was more like,
kind of kiwi stuck together, I suppose. Like, obviously I
had lots of friends but, I don't know, I just,
it felt like a sense of, I don't know, like
a safety and comfort. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. So, I
never actually,
like, I, I dated Australians but I never had a

(16:58):
boyfriend who was a, you know, an Australian actually. And
I lived in Sydney for 10 years.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, when you think about that period
of your life, you know, living this very fast paced life,
super demanding,
um, you'd have to work with a diverse range of people.
I'm thinking that psych degree could have been quite handy
over that time.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Definitely.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I, and I think psychology and journalism
are very connected and a lot of the, the skills
you learn in psychology about creating rapport with people and, and,
and that trust that is very, that is exactly what
you need to be a good journalist, especially if you're
trying to,
you know, get maybe quite personal stories out of people

(17:44):
or get people to talk about something that they're not,
you know, they're not someone who usually shares information, having
those skills are really, really important, those communication skills.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Um,

Speaker 2 (17:55):
yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah. So, over that, from that time you think about
that time, what were your top three take aways that
you think put you in really good stead to start
out on your own?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Um, I think, I think just the experience in the
industry and having relationships was really key. So like, especially
when I started working at channel nine, I was the
supervising producer of um of mornings. So part of my
role was, you know, talent checking experts and we would
have a lot of like the magazine editors on the

(18:28):
show from back then. It was, was it B or
AC P? But it was, it was, you know, your
Murray clears your
for all of those editors. So I literally got to
meet and spend a lot of time with these women
and create relationships there. And the same when I went
to the E channel, that was a lot of what
I did was, you know, dealing with as I was
executive producer, was having experts and meeting, you know, influences

(18:50):
to local celebrities and having those relationships. So I think
building those relationships was really key for me, especially since
I created my
agency when I was back in New Zealand, but have
Australian clients. I, I had relationships not just within television
but across, across the different sort of medium and same
with like the Daily Telegraph and Sunday. Like I, I

(19:11):
knew the reporters, I knew the journalists because I dealt
with them in different capacities. And when I was at
channel nine and when I was at eight, so

Speaker 1 (19:18):
it really set you up
quite perfect that set

Speaker 2 (19:20):
me up really well for having that. Um And then
I feel um you know, those, those sort of the
people skills and the communication skills, which are kind of
key to what I've always done that, that obviously was
key and just being someone who was in the media,
I was obviously very aware of all the different outlets,
all the different angles, the different approach for, for everything

(19:41):
I was immersed in the industry, like working as a journalist,
you're across every news site every minute of the day
looking at what everyone else is doing.
Um And especially when I was at mornings, my job
was to basically choose the segments and come up with
the ideas. So I was across all of those kind
of lifestyle sites as well. So I knew what they
all wanted. I knew the journalist there. I'd call the journalist, oh,
who was that talent you had for your story. Oh,

(20:03):
we want to get them on our show. So having,
having the, as I said,
the relationships and their understanding of all the outlets and
what they require, I think is really key and

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I could imagine success in those roles and being able
to climb, you know, the hierarchy as you did, those
executive producer
roles would have given you a whole heap of confidence
to when we talk about those sort of more internal
qualities um that you take away there, there's the tangible,
you know, contacts, communication, all of that. But you know,

(20:38):
the intangible.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Totally. No, definitely. And I think, um especially when I
was at a, I was in charge of a show.
I was in, I managed a team in L A
and in Sydney.
Um, so, and I made all the decisions. So, having
all of that on you and being accountable for ratings
and all of those things meant you had to have

(21:00):
that confidence you really did and you had to be
someone who was really sure of what you were deciding
and able to make decisions really quickly and

Speaker 1 (21:08):
have qualities you need in business.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Exactly. So, yeah, the,

Speaker 1 (21:14):
yeah. Yeah. And what was the turning point for you then?
So you're working, you know, in these other roles? What
was the turning point where you're like, ok, it's time.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Well, I had my daughter when I was at a,
so I went on maternity leave and I moved to
Noosa actually for a year while my ex-husband was working
in Sydney. And unfortunately I knew I needed to leave
that marriage and I knew that I needed my family
around me because it was going to be really difficult.
So
I, I encouraged us to move to New Zealand, which

(21:47):
we did, we had to leave. And so we moved
back and then obviously not long after that COVID happened.
So we were back and we were stuck and I
finally did it and left him and I was presented
with a very, you know,

(22:10):
a really kind of hard time in my life where
I had not worked in two years. I completely lost
my confidence because I had been at home with the
baby and been in a very tumultuous situation and I
was in my home country. All my good friends were
in Sydney still. I had my parents and got, you know,
like they were amazing. But I am someone that has

(22:30):
always been incredibly self sufficient and I don't rely on
anyone and here I was
had it worked, didn't have any prospects on the horizon.
What am I going to do? I approached former colleagues
of mine who are now at TV Three, which news
hub and they gave me freelance work thankfully. So I
started doing that and like saving money. But that,

Speaker 1 (22:49):
and
you'd have to start again again. Like you've already started again.
You've gone to Sydney, you've had to start again there
and you've come back to New Zealand
and the time would have passed. You'd have to start again.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
And I hadn't been in the New Zealand news cycle
for 10 years. Like I wasn't paying attention to what
was going on. So I had all this wonderful knowledge
about Australian politics or, or, or, you know, entertainment and lifestyle,
but I didn't have any like local stuff and yeah,
so it was, it was hard. But fortunately I did
get freelance work. Um I was offered full time, but

(23:19):
the money was just something I,
I couldn't raise a child on. And also the hours
were you need to be in the newsroom by 738
and you might not get out of there until 738.
And so no childcare center is open those hours. So
I just thought I'm going to actually, I should say
I had done pr in, in Sydney. I had worked
when I first came over between channel 10 and so

(23:42):
between channel seven and channel 10, I'd worked
um with an incredible woman, Victoria Buchan, who is actually
Hugh Jackman's personal publicist in Australia. And I worked on
the Oprah Winfrey when she came to Sydney on that
as one of the pr team, I'd worked with Hugh
Jackman and also a few years later in between things,
um I headed up was head of Pr for Oz

(24:02):
Comic Con coming to Australia. So very much celebrity focused
stuff and I've done lots of red carpets and that
kind of stuff when I was with thick. So I
had had pr experience
I had done it before. And so I thought I'm
going to give this a go. I got a small
contract working on the Auckland Arts Festival as their publicist,
which was great

Speaker 1 (24:23):
in the early days. And how did you get into that?

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Um I literally just applied for it and they wanted
someone that had that young fresh energy to kind of
make it a bit more fun to give it a
bit more of that spin.
Yeah. So it was great. It was, it was a
short term contract, but I did that. Um whilst also
still obviously working at 23, like literally hustling. And then
I thought I need to do something for me and

(24:50):
my daughter. I'm just going to give this a go.
And fortunately I was able to still freelance at three
in the beginning. So I started getting a few clients
and I worked every weekend at TV three and I
didn't have my daughter. So every single weekend, both days. So,
you know, seven days a week and parenting a toddler
and it was COVID. So it was, it was, it

(25:12):
was hard.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
What do you think? Got you through that?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
I was in trauma state. I think

Speaker 1 (25:18):
adrenaline was on overdrive. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah. So, um it was just like it was survival mode.
You know, I never moved in with my parents. I
literally went from living with my husband to like having
my own rental. So I had to make money every
week to pay for it. Like I,
I never had any sort of help in that respect.
I just did everything on my own. That's how I am.
I didn't want to have to move in with my parents,

(25:40):
with my dog and my, I wanted us to have
our own home. So, you know, my parents obviously helped
with various things, but I, the day to day weekly
bills were all on me. And so I just had
to make it work.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Nothing like a bit of
pressure. Right.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
So, I guess, you know, and
maybe you've already answered this question, but what, you know,
I was going to ask you what you found most
challenging in setting up your own business. It kind of
feels like that juggle.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
But I do think as soon as I kind of
made that call and I stepped into my own and
started doing it, I realized I really enjoyed this and
I was really good at this. And I started getting
so much confidence in myself and

Speaker 1 (26:23):
passion then because you're going, this is what I want
to do and then
it's not hard work, right? Turn that switch is gone
on where you're like, no, this is all about.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
And people can see that in me for being this
person for a couple of years that look in the
eyes to coming alive again. And so I just was,
you know, had so many people reach out to me
want a lot of

Speaker 1 (26:46):
attraction feel good and it comes and good come to
and

Speaker 2 (26:50):
it just the moment I just built and it grew
from there

Speaker 1 (26:55):
when you're in that dark space and you're in that
transition just before the light switch goes on. What, what
gets you up every day

Speaker 2 (27:06):
my daughter did? Yeah. And, and I, I am naturally
a very motivated person. I wanted to succeed and I
wanted to have a good life. I'm not someone who,
you know, me that settles with just me.
I want to do the good thing. I want to
have the nice thing. And so that requires getting up
doing it, being motivated and love it.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah. Were you a planner? Did you have like a
formal strategy or a business plan? No, about
me?
I just got stuck in. So if you had your
time again going out on your own, was there anything
you would have done differently?

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Um
No, not really to be fair. I think everything really
kind of worked the way it was meant to work.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
It sounded so organic and really, you

Speaker 2 (27:55):
know, I did have a bit of a spiritual journey
during that time though. And I think I played a
lot into it for me having been a very pragmatic
realistic journalist and almost like a very negative thinker, like
someone who would always think the worst could happen. I
shifted that.
How did you shift it? Um I read a few books.

(28:15):
I got into Dr Joe dispenser and I just started
talking to myself kindly every day I was, I was
seeing a psychologist as well. Um But I started absolutely
changing my internal dialogue every day. I think

Speaker 1 (28:28):
it's really important. And thank you for sharing that because
I think that's really important to, to, to make those
transitions in life. You do need support, whether it's
psychologist and counselor, you know, youtube clips. But it's really
tough to do it on your
own.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
And I was doing everything I was doing, the psychologists
and science. I was podcasts. I was reading, I was
just immersing myself in all of it. It was my
healing journey as a human being, of course, um And
something I needed to go through. And I'm so grateful
I went through trauma to have,
have that experience because it's made me such a better person.

(29:07):
But it's also meant everything in my life, made sense
and flourished and grew personally, I made the most incredible
friend group in Auckland. Like I attracted these wonderful people
to my life. I attracted these incredible clients, had great
relationships with my, with my parents. Like everything just felt
good and happy and positive energy,

Speaker 1 (29:26):
joy. Yeah, I love it, love it, love it, love it.
But yeah, you're so right.
Yeah, you do need to go through that if it
doesn't come to you from birth. And I haven't lived
through
that.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
I don't think I would have been ready to start
a business. I don't think I would have had the
confidence or the belief in myself to attract the things
that I attracted. So that was really crucial for my journey.
And I believe all things happen for a reason and
when they're meant to happen. So I think, you know,
it flows,

Speaker 1 (29:56):
it was. Yeah, absolutely as it does. So you've got
a really impressive group of clients Um And thanks to you,
they're benefiting from some enormous coverage. Um But do you
remember starting out and pitching to this caliber of client?
Did you ever, you know, we talked about your spiritual
journey and, you know, getting confidence, but did you ever

(30:17):
sort of grapple with self doubt over those early days
of pitching?

Speaker 2 (30:22):
To
be honest, this sounds really terrible. I didn't actually pitch.
Yeah, I, I just put out on my personal social channels,
what I was doing.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Well, that's a pitch in a different way though, right?
It's not the formal conference room pitch or zoom room pitch,
but it's still a pitch because you're putting yourself out
there saying I can solve these
problems.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
And so yeah, so I, I just, you know, put
had had a, you know, a proper photo shoot, got
the website made everything look, look all professional and put
it out on all my social channels. And from that,
I would have got about five clients. And then once
I started doing work and I heavily used Instagram as
kind of my showreel. Dad's like, why aren't you using linkedin?

(31:05):
I still don't properly use linkedin. I need to um
I just started putting it out on Instagram and then
just people inquiries came in. So there never was really
a time where I kind of had to do a
full pitch. It sort of it came in and I
just would look at, you know, inquiries and think, what
could I do
here and how can I do this and what's
working?

Speaker 1 (31:26):
So self doubt never came in in those early days

Speaker 2 (31:30):
in terms of, oh God, am I going to do
a good job? Ok. Am I going to get the coverage?
Because the thing is with,

Speaker 1 (31:36):
it
wasn't so much the early days saying I can do it.
It's getting the client and going right now, this is
what we have
to deliver

Speaker 2 (31:44):
because that was also was new for me, you know,
working with small businesses when I had done pr before
I had been celebrity stuff, media.
So this was something where, oh, how do I create
a story out of this? And I knew I had
that ability but it, but it was more the case of,
can I get it placed? Pr can be quite like
sales in that respect. You can't make any promises. You

(32:06):
can't say, you know, I'm going to get you this, this,
this and that you have no idea if you can.
I have a pretty good idea based on your relationships.
But those early days, obviously, I knew I knew these journalists,
but they hadn't known me as a publicist. They had
known me as a journalist
and our relationship had been in a different capacity. So
they knew I had good judgment on what made a story,

(32:27):
but I hadn't formally pitched to them. So my nervousness
and my insecurity was more, am I actually going to
be able to get these things placed and I'm, and
I'm one of these people, oh God, I'm charging people
money and like, I need to get this done and
that pressure of letting the clients down, I suppose was
where the pressure, how did you work through that? But
I still, I think you always go through that because

(32:48):
you never know.
Um, but I think as time goes on, you know,
what works, you know, what doesn't. Um And you also
know that the journalists and then you've got other clients,
you can, you know, leverage to help other clients. So
it's kind of, you've got a system in place

Speaker 1 (33:04):
and again, it's, it's, it's um building that momentum, right?
With momentum comes confidence with confidence comes good vibes with
comes good attraction. Yeah. Yeah. Love it, love it.
So what advice do you have for listeners to overcome
that self doubt, particularly in those early days when you

(33:25):
haven't necessarily got the track record behind you?

Speaker 2 (33:28):
We have to, I know it sounds cliche but you
have to believe in yourself. You really do and you
just have to try, you just have to do it.
And sometimes I think, you know, you can get stuck
in your head and get scared or feel like you're
not good enough or feel like you don't know what
you're doing. But if you just do it just like,
don't even like, let yourself get in your head

(33:49):
just actually roll it out, just take action. You'll be
surprised at what happens. I actually have been through this
recently with one of my really good friends who's gone
from journalism to doing communications as well. And so I've
given her this advice as well. She's like, you know,
it's so scary. You're not sure. And it's like you
just have to do it

(34:10):
and I, and you have to have that knowledge in your,
in yourself, in your gut, which I have always had.
I'm very fortunate to have um that things are going
to be ok.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
And if you know, things are going to be ok,
they will be,

Speaker 1 (34:21):
I
think it's interesting for business owners to consider what their
measures of success are. Different businesses at different stages, all
have different measures of success, right?
Do you remember your measures of success starting out and,
and then I guess what are they now? Have

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I started? I thought I want to like build this
like big agency, this empire and do all this, you know,
have all the stuff I started to do that. And
I quickly realized that doing that took me out of
actually doing the pr
I was doing, I was managing people. I was then
having to redo this stuff because the clients wanted me

(35:01):
not them. And the ultimate result in all of that
was this time with my daughter. And so I made
a decision, everyone was like you need to scale, you
need to grow. And I'm like, you know what, I
would rather have less clients and, you know, a good
amount of money and have that ability to be an
active mother that's there at school. Pick up, that's
at school, drop off and take certain things. It's at

(35:21):
this stage in my life then build an empire and
never see my daughter like that. That, that would not
be success for me. That's not what success looks like.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
I love that. That's a really great example. You know,
we often talked, you know, in marketing, we talk to
businesses about what their measures of success are. And yeah,
small businesses, large businesses all different. But I love that
transition. You thought you wanted something and in actual fact,

Speaker 2 (35:47):
and that might change in 10 years,

Speaker 1 (35:50):
100%.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
But, you know, I, I feel like I've got so
much time ahead of me, but at this point in
my life, she's my priority running a great business with
great clients that I enjoy working for. That. Also appreciate
and respect that in me too. And a lot of
my clients are women are mothers, so we all get
it

Speaker 1 (36:08):
percent. We do. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then obviously, yeah,
working with clients, what would you say is the most
common measure of success? So if you're looking at the
average across all of them, I know they're all gonna
be slightly different. They

Speaker 2 (36:24):
they want coverage. But I feel like what I offer
is something slightly different. Like my dad always said to me,
my dad doesn't listen to this. He's like, you can't be,
you can't be friends with your clients.
You can't be friends with people in business. Well, I'm
the complete opposite of my dad. Yeah, because I am
and that actually really works beautifully for you because I
have such strong relationships with my clients. Like they, I

(36:46):
love them, they love me. They become friends. And I
actually think that works beautifully in the line of work
that I do because the other thing is I'm not
in the corporate world. I need to know everything about them.
I need to know things about their personal lives
because that can be angles or more. If they're in
a high profile situation, they do something wrong. I'm the

Speaker 1 (37:06):
one that's

Speaker 2 (37:06):
doing the damage control. So I really slot into their
personal lives in a different way as a publicist. So,
having that trust and I think that's really key, trusting
each other, that respect for each other. And that friendship
I think is actually really critical for my line of work.
And I think if you don't have that
you're not, you're not going to be successful in my

(37:29):
industry is you do. So

Speaker 1 (37:32):
it really comes back down to those early days in psychology.
Doesn't that rapport and really working it? So then what tess,
what is an Instagram account that came about because

Speaker 2 (37:46):
in COVID because I was at home, um single mother
with Lola, we were, I was obviously working in the business,
but we had obviously spare time to kill because we
were the two of us and I am someone who's
always loved fashion, always loved getting dressed up. That gives
me a sense of joy and a sense of happiness

(38:06):
and something to kind of think about and create. There's
like a creative element to it and being stuck at
home not being able to do that just made me
feel crappy. So I was, you know, I would literally,
you know, zoom a friend in Sydney and get all
dressed up like we were going on a girls night,
it was just something to do.
So I thought, why not make some content, some photos

(38:28):
we can do, you know, she has some outfits. So
in the very early days, Lola was four, she took
the photos of me,
we
went around the neighborhood and would like wear, you know,
fun colorful things and take photos and you know, I
started putting it out and all of a sudden this
page just grew and then it went from that to

(38:50):
I actually bought a tripod because I was getting really
and she wasn't getting the angry threat out

Speaker 1 (38:57):
there.
It was a mutual decision to part ways
for

Speaker 2 (39:06):
she still, she still helps out. Um And then from there,
it grew so I got to the point that I,
you know, obviously working in pr like I knew a
lot of local photographers and I think we, we were
out of lockdown at that point. So I started collaborating
with a local photographer
and he would take photos, you know, for me. And
so it just grew and then all of a sudden
brand started approaching and I started making money from it.

(39:29):
And so it just grew into this thing

Speaker 1 (39:31):
so purely organic. That wasn't the intention was definitely

Speaker 2 (39:35):
not the intention. I did not want to be a
fashion influencer. No, I was just doing something to,
to be, you know,

Speaker 1 (39:41):
bring some joy,
some joy into your life and a really tough time.
So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. So what
have you found to be most surprising with this kind
of exposure?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
I suppose? I think we're conditioned that there's all these
trolls on, on my, my experience has been completely
the opposite. I actually found a really strong community of
women that love fashion. You know, like if I'm having
a bad day and I post a picture, you just
read the comments, you look amazing outfit, girls.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
It's like
I
was thinking

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I

Speaker 1 (40:18):
should

Speaker 2 (40:19):
do you know how people read

Speaker 1 (40:21):
their

Speaker 2 (40:21):
mean tweet?
Like this is what fashion is. It's literally just the opposite.
Like it's so lovely and likewise, you'll say wonderful things
back to other women. So I find it's a really
empowering community of women that just support each other, which
was not what I would have thought.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
No,
but I think also it's about what you're putting out too.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah.
Amazing. So, OK, back to pr, I always love to
offer great tips for our listeners, you know, from our
subject matter experts. So can you share how does the
listener establish whether pr should be in their marketing strategy?
What are some questions they should be asking themselves to
establish that?

Speaker 2 (41:01):
I think it depends what their business is. If they're
a product based business, it should be, if they are
an expert, meaning an accountant or a law firm or,
you know, something like a professional services, I think it
should be. But also they would need to be someone
that feels confident and ok with putting themselves out there

(41:22):
and a lot of the time people don't, especially, I've
got a client who's been my longest Dr Eileen Allo
and she's a clinical psychology
and there's not many psychologists that actually want to put
themselves out there like that, you know. So, and you know,
she's quite rare lawyers again, you know, there's almost like
a stigma in some of the professional services industries like,

(41:42):
oh God, why would you want to be the one
on TV like that? You know. So I think if
you're in professional services, there is absolutely a place for it,
but you need to ask yourself how do I feel
about putting myself out there? How does that make me
look to my other colleague
within the industry? Do I, do I care? Like hopefully
you don't but if you do then maybe it isn't

(42:04):
for you and maybe that is a space for someone else.
But when it comes to a product based business or
a brand, you have to. Yeah. Yeah. It really is
a sign of the times, especially at the moment. Um
There's been a real resurgence, I would say this year,
especially in the Australian media landscape with so many magazines
that died during COVID.

(42:27):
They're coming back. And also my clients are telling me
that the influencer marketing stuff that they had been doing
that was booming for the COVID has absolutely

Speaker 1 (42:36):
taken a dive because there's so much, there's so much
content everywhere like it's cutting through and that was, you know,
a big thing that, you know, I've seen, you know, we,
we work together on some clients and there's some old
school pr strategies that we have put in play that
are cutting through
and, and being more successful than those influencer type strategies

(42:59):
that we've employed. So that's been really great to see actually.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, and I definitely think there is a trend to
that there's a renaissance or a resurgence, traditional editorial pr
definitely making a
comeback

Speaker 1 (43:11):
100%. Ok. So if, um
you know, if a business is on a tight budget
as a start up, which often is the case, what
are some of the things they can do themselves to
move forward in that pr direction?
Um and perhaps lay some groundwork before engaging APR agent.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
OK? I think some of the things it depends on
what industry they're in. For example, you know, I've got
clients that let's say beauty, for example, some of the
things they can do is just do a Google work out.
Who are the beauty editors who are these people follow
them on Instagram from your brand page? Start engaging with them,
message them, hey, can I send
your pack of my staff? They might not reply, but

(43:53):
they might um that is some of the really sort
of basic things that you should be doing to get
your brand on their radar, you know, just being proactive
and doing that kind of leg work. And in some
cases if they did love your products, you can create
your own relationship with them, which is fantastic moving forward.
So I think anything along those lines is, is, is
really useful. Um There are, there are um

(44:17):
websites, there's one in Australia called Source Bottle, which you
could sign up to and you could see, you know,
journalists calling out, they're looking for someone with the story
to tell or this story to tell. So it's thinking
proactively as a founder, you're not just trying to get
your brand out there. You also, you need to get
your story out there too. So sometimes you do have

(44:37):
to
into the personal parts of yourself. But there could be
a story like, have you gone through some kind of struggle?
Have you had, have you had a sickness? It sounds
so crazy. But when I on board my client, I'm
going to get personal. Now, the more angles I have
um the better really. So you could see there was
something about, you know, your kids living with you and

(44:58):
your
or in your fifties and be like, oh yeah, mine are,
that's still an angle or an avenue that you could
twist into. You know, it's great having my kids here
because they help with my business, you know, you can
still leverage and put things in there to get, get
that exposure. So I think it's thinking outside the box and,
and being proactive. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (45:16):
love it, love it, love it. Um
So myth busting, I'm right into it and I know
there are plenty of myths to bust around pr um
in the pr world. I wanna share five and I'd
love to get your response. Ok. Pr is only for
big enterprises

Speaker 2 (45:36):
and what would I say? False?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
That one is definitely not true. VR is for, I
work predominantly with smaller businesses and start ups and it's
a huge, huge space. It's huge. It's a way to
give your, give your brand credibility and to move your
brand from being a start up to being a brand
that people know and recognize. So it's a missed opportunity

(46:03):
if you're not doing it right from when you, when
you begin your brand,

Speaker 1 (46:07):
if I don't have launches, I don't need pr false.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Um, no, no launches. You can get pr at any point.
Like what are your products if they've been out for
a year? But you haven't had them in the media? Well,
they're new. Yeah, because no one's talked about

Speaker 1 (46:26):
the
love it, love it. Pr doesn't sell.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
What do you mean by that result in saying?

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yes,

Speaker 2 (46:38):
that's I
um ok, so this is an interesting, this is a
moot point. It depends on the outlet. Ok. Some outlets
I call them converters, others are your credibility piece. You
could have a beautiful piece on Vogue or Forbes and
I'm not, I don't want to hurt anyone, you know,

(46:59):
upset anyone out there, but that might result in no sales.
You get a daily mail article,
500 sales. So it really just depends on the outlet
and how many eyeballs are on it. And also it's quite,
it's hard to measure in some instances as well. But no,
you're definitely not doing pr to get just sales. You
have to see it as there could be some sales
which are fantastic. But this is about brand credibility. This

(47:22):
is about on your website as seen in Murray, clear,
as seen in who magazine, as seen in
like if your brand has that and your competitor doesn't,
who's the customer going to go to? They're going to
go to the one that has that credibility. So you
need to see it as a bigger picture. However, some
outlets do convert and daily mail is one of them

(47:42):
and a lot of my clients, you know, businesses will
come to me and I just want a daily mail article.
I just want a daily mail article for that reason.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ok. Pr is a long term investment and it's too
expensive for my business,

Speaker 2 (48:02):
but also true and false. It is a long term investment. Yes,
it is a long, you can't think. I'm just going
to do a quick little thing and then that's it.
You can, but you'll get coverage then and then what,
then what next? You need to be constantly doing it even,
you know, if you're a small business, you do like
a project a year, you get an agency and do
you know, this year our focus is on our,

(48:22):
our new lip balm. Next year our focus is on
our new mask. Each year. Pick a product and push that.
I would say that at the bare minimum, you should
be doing that just because you've had some coverage doesn't
mean you stop, you need to. So long as you
are a business that has new things to put out.
If you're a business that I don't know, makes a,

(48:45):
a handbag and only has one style, but there's not
really much you can do after you've had the first
round of press. But if you're a business that's constantly
evolving with new products and new things to talk about, well,
then you need to be getting press for, for all
of those things.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Expensive pr is expensive.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
I
don't think so. I don't think so. Um, obviously it's
an investment but, um, you know, I think not wanting
to sell what I do.
I think if you go to a really big agency,
you often, it's a really expensive bill. You're not getting
the person working on your account. That is the person
with the experience, you're getting a young account, account manager who,

(49:22):
you know, they change because they are trying to better
themselves

Speaker 1 (49:26):
and they often aren't in on that ground level where
there's discovery sessions where you're finding out everything.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Exactly. Exactly. So, in that case,
people have had bad experiences. They go, I'm doing pr,
I'm going to go to the top agency, the big agency.
But the thing is, is you're one of these small
fry and I've got these big, huge hires. So you're
not going to get that same level of service. So
I think going to someone who maybe is a, you know,
a publicist that just adjust themselves a smaller, a smaller operation,

(49:55):
you're going to get that, that better service and it's
probably not going to be as expensive either.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Good products don't need publicity.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Boom, I would, I definitely disagree with that because, um,
if they're a good product, they will get publicity. And
so you, you want, you want to get, you want
to get that coverage and you need someone to manage
that for you. Because if you don't know what you're doing,
say you've come up with a viral product and you're
getting things left right and center.

(50:26):
You don't know what you're doing. You need someone there
to manage you and be like, right, we've got, we've
got something great here. This is our plan. We're going
to go to this place, this place, this place because
what you're not thinking is not all outlets want to
cover it. So you need to have a strategy and
you need to have a plan and you want to
get the best possible results. If you give it to
some smaller outlet, then that annoys another outlet, then they're

(50:46):
not going to run a story. Well, you're shooting yourself
in the
so you need a professional in there that's going to
come up with a great strategy for you. Work from
your absolute wish list, top players first and work the
way down. Because if you just grab anything, Willy nilly,
you're going to miss out on some really amazing opportunities.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
I love it. Great advice. That is the end of
that.
We do. We do
look as a single mom and I know because I've
been there. It's impossible to do motherhood and business completely
on your own. Um I don't care what anyone says
you need support, whether it's personal, professional. Um You're incredibly busy,

(51:28):
you travel a lot, which is another layer and in
your industry, you know, you've got a lot of evening events,
um launches you need to be at, how do you
manage it
all?

Speaker 2 (51:39):
I'm very lucky that my ex-husband is very good with that.
We've got a good relationship now and he lives literally
down the road. So I always give him the first option.
So I will say, you know, I've got this, can
we juggle this and you take Lola these days and
most of the time, you know, he's absolutely, absolutely can.
And then if he can't, I've got my parents. So

(52:01):
I actually, I've got, I've got plenty of support if
I need it. So
I'm really fortunate in that regard and I'm also very strategic.
So for example, I'm here in Melbourne this week. Obviously,
I knew like nearly a year ago that my daughter
would be in Rarotonga with her dad this week. So
when one of my clients was like, oh, we're organizing
this event, I'm like, this week would be amazing for me.

(52:22):
And so I just have a really good diary and
I know, you know, we super organized and so I will,
I will literally work things best I can to work
with my schedule. And I don't have my daughter every
second weekend.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
That was gonna be my next question. You know, like
when it cuts into that time because I know, you know,
with myself, I would actually get frustrated when things would
cut into that time with my boys. But um

Speaker 2 (52:47):
I have the majority of the time, but every second weekend,
the Thursday to the Monday, he has her. So I
will try to do things that weekend or like, even
if he had that extra Wednesday and I do something
with Thursday, Friday. So I do have that flexibility every
second weekend. It's a good four or five days. Um
But
look, if it, if it does and look if it's
something when I'm in Auckland, like events, you know, my

(53:09):
parents just pop around my friends, like, you know, it's
just

Speaker 1 (53:14):
a couple of hours. So breaking it down being super
organized and
she's
actually communicating. I saw her, which is super cute because
then you've got that whole leaning into your what? Test
war with you?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Exactly. So,

Speaker 1 (53:36):
so make it work to,

Speaker 2 (53:38):
to

Speaker 1 (53:39):
love it, love it, love it. And for the listener
who's passionate about what they do, keen to start their
own business. I'm not quite sure where to start. What
pairs of wisdom would you share?

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Just start it? I, I, how I did it is
I just created a website which sounds a little like
complicated and it was, I just googled how to create
a website literally just create something. So it looks like
there's something and then just put it out there. That
is what I did. I
got some nice photos done. Had a friend of mine
make a logo for me. Sat there worked out how

(54:09):
to make a website, which, you know, I think I
spent three days fiddling around doing. You can do it yourself.
If you, if you've got youtube and you've got a laptop,
you can make your own website, just do it and
then tell people and then see what happens. You know,
you don't need to have all the answers to

Speaker 1 (54:27):
start

Speaker 2 (54:28):
with

Speaker 1 (54:28):
and it doesn't have to be perfect. It's that progress,
progress is perfection.
What about advice for a listener who might be struggling
a bit with business mojo or maybe getting back up
after a
knock?

Speaker 2 (54:41):
I think you just have to realize that that is
so normal and that is part of the journey, you know,
don't be so hard on yourself. Being in business, you
are going to have knocks, you're going to have times
where you're not going to have mojo. That's part of
what being a business owner and being on this journey
is about. So it's about almost having that self talk
and that self dialogue. Here we are again.

(55:03):
Hi. Hi, Slump time. Hello, old friend and just recognizing
it and accepting it for what it is sitting in
it like it's ok to sit in it and to like,
you know, have an afternoon, have a day if you
need to just sit in it and feel like shit,
that's good. That's normal. If you don't allow yourself to
feel that, like, that's not being human, but also know

(55:24):
what it is and almost, I like to kind of
create it as like a separate identity and be like,
hi there. You come along to play today.
We'll chill today, but you're leaving tomorrow. But it's also
recognizing that that is totally normal. It doesn't mean there's
something wrong with you. It doesn't mean there's something wrong
with your business. It's just life and having these slump

(55:45):
moments is what you need to better yourself and motivate
yourself and drive yourself to come out on the other side.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah. Absolutely. And know that it's temporary. I think. I
know that's what I've got caught up in before it. Like,
oh my God, it's going to last forever.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
But
that self sabotage, self doubt. And so again, it's what
I talked about earlier. It's that self talk. Like, if
we are kind to ourselves, we talk to ourselves like
we would to our friend. Like, if your friend was
saying this to you, you wouldn't be like, oh, you're
going to fail. You just sit there and, and it's
going to be crap for you. Would you say that
to your friends and don't talk to yourself?

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it. So, what's next
for publicity.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Well, pop publicity is going great.
I've got a great family of clients now. It's a
great day to day, but I also want to step
and do more things come into my entrepreneurial era. I
love it. So I work with so many brands and
I'm so heavily involved from the beginning phases. I've even

(56:47):
had clients that have started brands, you know, with me,
you know, as guidance, helping them along that journey. And
so something sort of clipped in me. Why are you
not doing this yourself? Because the thing with publicity is
I love it and it's always going to be my forte,
but I can't, as I spoke earlier, sort of transition
out of that. It needs to be me. My clients
want me. It's that first person service. So if I'm

(57:09):
wanting to expand for me expanding is having other businesses
which I can eventually have other people run that are
offering different things. So that would be a product based service.
So I obviously have a love of fashion. So I
can't say exactly what it is yet, but it is
a fashion brand.
And I'm currently working with an amazing pattern maker who

(57:31):
is very well renowned in the New Zealand fashion industry.
And the New Zealand fashion industry in itself is going
through a pretty horrible time. At the moment, Kate Sylvester
has shut down. Fashion Week was canceled. The recession has
hit really hard, especially for New Zealand designers and New
Zealand made products. So there's a lot of people sitting
there that you are losing jobs and need projects to

(57:54):
be
working on. So for me, as a former journalist, publicist,
I look at the story is very crucial to how
I'm developing what I'm doing. And I'm also wanting to
do good for other people

Speaker 1 (58:04):
and in an industry that you really care about. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
So I'm trying to bring in people and keep it
all in New Zealand or New Zealand made and create
a brand when the fashion industry is really struggling to
bring some new energy and put something out there. So, yeah,
so I'm in the very early stages.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Oh,

Speaker 2 (58:24):
hoping to, I'm hoping to launch my brand in sort
of February March next year for an autumn, winter.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Ok. Ok. That's very exciting. So, I feel like that
might also then wave into what's next for what tests?

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Well, what would just kind of ticks along now? Yeah. Yeah. It's,
it's just a bit of a bit of fun for me. Really,
for me, I want to kind of utilize um my,
my relationships and my contacts from apr point of view
and I obviously know a lot of influences now as well,
which was my forte, but it's something that I've had
to do with what I do. So I think it

(59:02):
really would make sense to me, not just to be
pushing my client's brands, but to push something of my
own as
well.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Yeah, absolutely. So, what would you say is your greatest
achievement in business so far?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
I think just creating my business and doing it all
on my own. Like, I've never had anyone help me,
you know, like I, I just just came up with
the idea and did it and I haven't really, ever
had a mentor or I just just did it and
I did it whilst raising a two year,
three year old on my own with no help because
it was COVID and nobody was in my house. So

(59:36):
I think just being able to manage that and create something,
I'm actually really, really proud of that given what I'd
been through it,

Speaker 1 (59:45):
if you could give your high school self some, you know,
gift of hindsight. What would some pointers, what point would

Speaker 2 (59:52):
you being so mean to yourself is what

Speaker 1 (59:55):
I was. That's a big thing. You've said that quite
a

Speaker 2 (59:57):
few

Speaker 1 (59:57):
times.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
I was horrible to myself and my kids at that age. Yeah,
I really like, I think I knew that I was intelligent.
I knew that I was smart because my family was
telling me that. But I just don't think I really
liked myself. And I think that really stopped me from
being the best version of who I was. I was motivated.
But I always had so much doubt, like even in
those early days as a TV, reporter, oh, she's going

(01:00:20):
to be better than me or that person's going to
get that. Like, I was constantly just being horrific to myself.
So, um, yeah, I wish I hadn't wasted so much
mental energy on that. And I think as a mother,
that's something I teach my daughter, we say nice things
to ourselves in our head. And if she's being hard
on herself, I always hit her up on that. It's
ok to feel these things, but talk kindly to yourself

(01:00:42):
like you're amazing and you deserve to have those kind
words in your head. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Amazing.
What gives you the most satisfaction in your life right now?

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
I think I've actually made a pretty fun life for myself. Obviously,
I've got my daughter about to go to Europe next week.
So um travel friends, family, those are the things that
make me feel good and I seem to be
hitting all those,

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
all those boxes,

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
which

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
is great.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Love it,

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
love it. I love finishing on that note. Amazing um
Amazing note to finish on t thank you so much
for your time today. Loved having you here finally in Melbourne.
Joining me in person on the buzz. You are an
absolute pleasure. I'm incredibly grateful our paths have crossed them.
I just know there are plenty more projects um out

(01:01:32):
there that have our names on them and I'm looking
forward to it. Me too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Thank you so much, Karen. It's been so lovely to
be here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Thank
you.
Thank you. For joining us here on the Buzz for
episode highlights and nuggets of inspiration to keep you motivated
in your business head to Karen Hart. Buzz on Instagram.
This podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I would

(01:01:59):
love it if you could subscribe, rate comment and of course,
share the buzz.