May 19, 2022 • 26 mins
The Story of the Mum, the Son, and the IGA
Ollie Fanshawe talks about finding his first job at the age of 14. His mother, Melissa speaks about being a parent and gives some advice to parents whose children want to seek employment.
Learn more about our Career Path podcast and access a range of employment resources by selecting this link or visit www.visionaustralia.org and search for 'The Career Path' podcast.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to the Career Path. A recent report
from Sweeney and Vision Australia revealed that 83% of employers
surveyed lacked confidence in hiring someone with a vision impairment.
With this podcast, we hope to delve further into this
issue by speaking to job seekers, employers and employees to
hear their perspectives. Each episode will be available to download
(00:39):
as a podcast. Just go to Vision Austria org and
type the career path into the search engine to find
our webpage where you can listen to other episodes and
subscribe to make sure that you don't miss any. Hi,
I'm your host, Belinda Wilson. In today's episode, we will
be speaking with Oli Fanshawe, a 14 year old vision
impaired student who is currently working casually at IGA. We
(01:01):
also have Ali's mum, Melissa Fanshawe, senior lecturer for the
School of Education at the University of Southern Queensland. So Ali,
what do you currently do at the IGA?
S2 (01:12):
Um, well, I stack the shelves right now, so I
get my trolleys and then put them all out on
the shelves and do some presentation too. So bringing the
stock forward to make it look good for everyone.
S1 (01:23):
And how many days a week do you work at
the IGA?
S2 (01:26):
I'm at work two days a week and during the
school term I do six hours a week and then
on my holidays a bit more normally.
S1 (01:33):
Okay. So do you need any adjustments in order to
do your job?
S2 (01:37):
Well, no, I don't really have any. My boss is
really nice to me. Checks? What checks? Everything's right. Me
and really good with that. It works well.
S1 (01:47):
So with him checking everything that's right for you, what
sort of things does he do to support you?
S2 (01:52):
Oh, well, someone like he normally asked me. Are you
happy to put this up in the cafe? Like you're
happy to climb the ladder? And that I'm like, Yeah,
it's good. He he's always good at checking stuff, I guess.
S1 (02:02):
How do you tell what's on the labels of the
products you are putting on the shelves?
S2 (02:07):
Oh, when they're like far away. Like, if they're up
high and I can't read it then because I can't
get close, I just take a photo of it and
then read it.
S1 (02:14):
Okay, so you take a photo of the information and
then and then read it. And that's one adjustment.
S2 (02:19):
Yeah, that I can do it on that.
S1 (02:20):
So are there any other things that you find challenging
in your job that you need a bit of assistance with?
S2 (02:26):
Well, right now I'm not working in the checkout because
I don't think I'd be able to see it, but
I guess we'll see how it goes if I do
want to do it.
S1 (02:33):
So how did you find this job?
S2 (02:36):
Um, well, actually, I went down and asked him if
he wants me to work for him and asked me
if you needed any people. And I got the job
and I was lucky. And I really like it.
S1 (02:44):
You went down, you identified a place you wanted to
work out, which was the IGA. And you went down
there with with the resume?
S2 (02:52):
Yeah, that's right.
S1 (02:53):
And how did you know the right person to speak to?
S2 (02:56):
Oh, I just asked the people to check. Could I
talk to the manager? And they're like, Yeah, sure. And
I talked to him and then he told me to
come back next week. Then I got the job.
S1 (03:05):
So did he ask you any questions about your vision
impairment or did you disclose?
S2 (03:09):
Yeah, he asked. Look, he got some things to see
if I could read them. That'd be all right. And, yeah,
they were all good. So. Yeah.
S1 (03:17):
So at 14 years old, you went independently down to
your local IGA, provided a resume and asked for a job. Yeah.
And do you recommend this to your friends? Yeah, totally.
And you enjoying it? Do you like working at the idea?
S2 (03:31):
Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, I enjoy going there. It's really good.
S1 (03:34):
What do you like the best about it?
S2 (03:35):
Probably like when you work in the fridge or freezer
or not. And then you talk with others while you're
doing it, and I think that's good.
S1 (03:41):
So, Allie, what does it mean for you right now
to be employed?
S2 (03:45):
Well, I think it's really good because I can have
something to do, like fill in my time. I guess
I get a bit of a social aspect. And I
also like having a bit of money myself too.
S1 (03:57):
Throughout this podcast, there has been some difficulty in engaging
with employers. Some employers will be willing to release a statement,
but not necessarily talk about inclusivity. And one of the
points of this podcast is to try and include employers
who are open to hiring people who are blind and
low vision. Melissa What do you think makes Ali's employer
(04:21):
different from other employers?
S3 (04:23):
I think that he was impressed by Oliver being a
14 year old boy walking up, handing him his resume,
looking him in the eye and asking him for a job.
And then to him, I think that the vision impairment
was secondary. And so he asked Oliver what he would
(04:43):
do to overcome things. So he said, What will you
do when you can't see what the materials are and
think from memory? Ollie pulled out his phone and showed
him how he read it out. So I believe that
he was just open. Think that all employers have that
(05:03):
want to get the best and the most efficient employee.
And all of our came across that way because he
was confident he was walking efficiently. So he was going
to be a good fit for his company.
S1 (05:17):
So what I love about this is you said he
saw Ali before he saw the vision impairment.
S3 (05:22):
Absolutely. Guess that's exactly what it is.
S1 (05:25):
So, Ali, so far, you're saying you like talking with others,
maybe some customer service. Do you have any ideas for
careers you want to pursue in the future?
S2 (05:35):
Oh, I want to be either a cheapy or cabinetmaker.
S1 (05:37):
A chippy or a cabinetmaker. And why are you interested
in those roles?
S2 (05:41):
Oh, she liked woodworking, that sort of stuff. My cutting
boards and bowls and rolling pins and that. And some markets.
S1 (05:48):
What is the coolest thing that you have made?
S2 (05:51):
I made a couple stools which are pretty cool, like
rustic ones from logs and that.
S1 (05:55):
So you could potentially go into a business of making
furniture and wood wood products for people.
S2 (06:02):
Yeah, totally. Last weekend I had a market and I
made about $1,000 there.
S1 (06:06):
Wow. You made $1,000. How did you learn how to
do woodworking?
S2 (06:12):
Listening to things like YouTube and just trying it. And
then I got this guy named Gordon now and he
helps me out a bit through the Good.
S1 (06:19):
So when you started doing woodworking, were there any safety
concerns or anything like that?
S2 (06:25):
Oh, I guess a bit. But I'm pretty good now.
I know all the stuff I have and how to
use it safely.
S3 (06:30):
Would you like me to answer that, Belinda?
S4 (06:33):
Well, well, well.
S1 (06:35):
I mean, you know, Ali, I'm just I'm really fascinated
by the fact that you just made $1,000 worth of
woodworking products. And I understand sometimes your view of safety
might be a little bit bit different than your mom's
view of safety. So, Melissa, did you have any concerns
about Ali doing woodworking?
S3 (06:56):
Well, you know, of course, any 14 year old, you
would have concerns about woodworking. But Ollie has done some
sessions at Vision Australia and then we got him an
additional support worker who has an experience as a teacher
in woodwork. Also, Ollie does it at school and he'd
also done some certificates about safety. So once he'd done
(07:17):
those certificates he was able to use equipment. And there
are some tools that he has that he has to
use with an adult around, and that would be the
same as any other 14 year old.
S1 (07:26):
So were you a little concerned when he developed this
interest just as a mother of a 14 year old?
S3 (07:32):
Well, I was initially, but what he's created is so beautiful,
like the cutting boards that he's made and the bowls
and the stools, everything that he's done has just been
so beautiful that you can see that it's a really
wonderful passion. And you can really release, I don't know,
some of the frustrations that you might have in the
(07:52):
day that working with this beautiful wood and the smell
of it and the feel of it, I just yeah,
I really have just believe that it's something that makes
Ollie really passionate and happy. So it's important to him.
S1 (08:04):
So, Ollie, do you. Want to build something in the future.
Do you have something in mind? Project.
S2 (08:09):
Oh, I know. Just whatever I get asked to make
or whatever I find that I want to make, but
maybe some bedside tables I make or whatever. Really? I'll see.
S1 (08:19):
Melissa, you're both a mother of a vision impaired child
and a specialist in education for blind and low vision children.
So what sort of work do you do in this area?
S3 (08:28):
Yeah. So I'm a trained teacher of students with blindness
and low vision. But interestingly, I actually worked in the
field before we had all of us. So when we
had all of our I was very much, well, I've
worked with students with low vision and blindness and, you know,
it's just very different. It's about them being independent. It's
(08:50):
about still providing the same opportunities that you would for
anybody of the same age. And one of the things
that was really important to me was ensuring that Ollie
still did jobs in the house. And we've got four kids,
so you know that the other three didn't take on
the jobs in the house because he couldn't see as
well or those sorts of things. So he's always had chores.
(09:12):
He's always had to empty the dishwasher. We have had
to teach him, you know, how to feel safely for
the for the knives and make sure he doesn't miss
the glasses and things like that. But he cooks, he
cleans up. You know, he's pretty good for a 14
year old doing just things that any other child of
that age would do. And then now, as he's become
(09:32):
a teenager, he really wanted to get a job. And
to me, that's really important because when you go for
a full time job, you need that evidence on your
resume of having part time jobs. So it was all
off his own that he said, I want to go
down to the and ask for a job and said,
off you go. And he went down there and he
just really was able to, you know, interact with the
(09:56):
boss in the right way. And interestingly, I also watched
Ollie as he was at the market the other day
and people came up to him. And obviously he can't
see the people until they're really close, but he really
just had beautiful interaction with them. So he was like, Hi,
how are you going? These are the boards that I
made myself and I did this and this, and the
(10:16):
way that he interacted with the customers was just felt
really proud.
S1 (10:20):
That's lovely to hear that you have that pride. You
seem like a very confident parent, but not all parents
are confident, especially when it comes to to 14 year olds,
even parents whose children are not blind or low vision. Sometimes,
you know, they really want to protect their children. So
what sort of concerns do parents you usually have about
(10:42):
their blind or low vision children doing work or working
or getting careers?
S3 (10:47):
Yeah, absolutely right. Because most parents haven't actually met or
worked with people who have blindness or low vision. So
I really am grateful for that opportunity. One of the
things I think is safety. You think, oh gosh, if
you know, they're emptying the dishwasher and there's a knife,
they might cut themselves. Or if doing the cooking because
(11:07):
Ollie makes at least a meal a week in our house,
you know, if he's cutting the food, he might cut himself.
But it's just about training them to do things independently
because we don't want Ollie to become 18 and leave
home and not be able to take care of himself
like everybody else. So I think it is about independence
(11:27):
and providing opportunities to do things so that Ollie and
other children can be really independent in the community, like
the same age as I guess.
S1 (11:37):
I feel that there is that fear of safety in
that fear of letting a child out into the world
and those sort of things. So what advice would you
give for parents who want to support their kids into
being more employable?
S3 (11:49):
Oh, no. Should they close your own eyes? Because sometimes
and I mean that in that, you know, sometimes I
feel really scared of things that he's doing. I feel
scared If he's about to go on a bike and
he rides around and he really can't see where he's
going and all, he'll tell you that he'll fall off,
but he gets back up. And I think in terms
of being employable, the chores are really important. You know,
(12:12):
we need to be able to provide safe ways, teach
safe ways to do things, but you have to get
over your own fear, which is really difficult. And to
be able to find safe ways for your child or
your adolescent to be able to do things like their
same aged peers. And that's really important. Would you agree
(12:32):
that having done chores and things like that helped you
to be able to get a job early?
S2 (12:37):
Yeah, definitely, because I'm prepared and know to select to
do that. So I think it's really good.
S3 (12:42):
And your mom's already worked your hard, so you're ready
to go into the shop.
S1 (12:45):
Hey, Yeah. So, Melissa, what do you want? Farley's future.
S3 (12:50):
I want him, like, every mother, to be happy and
healthy and to be doing things that he likes and enjoys.
One of the things I think for the future of
people that are, you know, Ollie's age is that. They
won't always have one job for their whole life. So
it's about exploring multiple different things that you enjoy and
(13:12):
that you like so that you are prepared for sort
of different scenarios in life, I guess, and different gig
jobs that may come along. So just preparing skills and
being ready and resilient if things don't always go the
way you hope. Yes.
S1 (13:27):
So, Ali, in terms of school, what are you learning
right now?
S2 (13:32):
Subjects like good in construction business and economics, like food tech,
something else, enrichment.
S1 (13:38):
And do you have any barriers when it comes to
accessing the materials or anything like that? Not really.
S2 (13:43):
No. It's pretty good.
S3 (13:44):
I think you've learnt a lot of skills over time
and people have come in and supported you to learn
those skills so that now that you're quite independent in
terms of accessing education.
S1 (13:54):
I think, I think sometimes we think about the now
and not, not how we got here, which is which
is kind of a wonderful thing to say. You know,
that you're independent and that you know how to advocate
for yourself, which is something that's really difficult for a
lot of a lot of people your age to do.
Do you find it hard to kind of speak up
for yourself if if situations do happen?
S2 (14:15):
I'm not too bad with it. But yeah, I guess
sometimes it can be hard.
S1 (14:20):
Yeah. And when when things get hard and you have
trouble talking, you know about your needs. Do you speak
to your other students or do you speak to your teachers?
S2 (14:29):
No, not really. I guess I'm really pretty good.
S3 (14:32):
You have spoken to your teachers. You know, you were
looking at using PowerPoint in a different way and you
did speak to the teacher and explain to her how
you used it and how it helped you to access.
S2 (14:43):
Yeah. And sometimes, like, it's really annoying because people step
in and try to advocate for you, but like they
haven't even talked to you about it. And it's just
really frustrating when they do that and then you don't
even know.
S1 (14:53):
That's really interesting. So what do you mean people try
to try to step in and advocate for you?
S2 (14:58):
Well, when I was doing food tech, some of them
stepped in and tried to tell them that my dog
wasn't allowed in there before I even had talked to them.
But it's actually up to them if they're allowed in.
Then they already talked to the teacher and said, My
dog's not allowed in and all this stuff.
S1 (15:13):
So they just weren't aware of the rules.
S2 (15:15):
She just told them the dog wasn't allowed in and
I have to find a spot for her to go
before even talking to me. So I found that to
be annoying.
S3 (15:23):
Another thing that you talked about was when you're in class,
you actually like to try and do everything yourself without
someone like a teacher aide or anything beside you.
S5 (15:32):
Yeah.
S2 (15:33):
And so as a teacher, I'd just come in like
talk over the teacher and then knowing that too.
S1 (15:39):
So you want people to give you a chance to
explain yourself before they jump in?
S2 (15:44):
Yeah, that's right.
S1 (15:46):
Yeah. And, you know, I think that's coming from probably
a good place. They're trying to help you, but you
just want to be able to speak for yourself.
S2 (15:52):
Yeah, exactly.
S1 (15:53):
So what's your dog's name?
S2 (15:55):
Oh, Sadie. She's a golden retriever. And I got her
in Melbourne in Kensington in February this year.
S1 (16:01):
Oh, February. So you had her for a little while now.
So to have you and Sadie getting along.
S2 (16:07):
Yeah. Really good. She's awesome.
S1 (16:09):
And is she your first dog?
S2 (16:11):
Oh, firstly, I Dog. Yeah.
S1 (16:13):
Yeah. And how has that changed your life?
S2 (16:15):
Well, it's been really good. Just making the walk faster and, like,
more confident and all that.
S1 (16:20):
So what sort of things can can you do with
Sadie that you couldn't do before?
S2 (16:25):
Just makes me faster, I guess. Um, just to know
about more things in the area, like, makes a lot
quicker not having to think as much and that.
S1 (16:35):
And as Sadie go to work with you.
S2 (16:37):
As you leave her at home because it's only 300m
from my house.
S1 (16:40):
So, Ali, I know that you are super confident. You
are super confident. You you have gone in and you
have asked for this job and you've spoken to the
manager and you've done all these great things. But for
some of the other people, they may not be as confident.
So if you were to speak to an employer, what
advice would you give them for hiring someone who's blind
(17:01):
or low vision?
S2 (17:02):
No offer is give you to go and don't don't
worry about the others. Think I guess. And look. Yeah.
S1 (17:09):
What about Mum? What advice would you give to employers
about hiring people who are blind? In my vision, I.
S3 (17:14):
Think that if somebody can do the job and has
the skills to do the job, that you should give
everyone a go and just listen to them about what
ways would work best for them. And everybody has different things.
Like I'm actually really short and I wouldn't be able
to reach the top shelf. So we all have different
things that we need accommodations for. And if people can
open their mind and just realize that we're all different,
(17:37):
we all have different ways that we need to adjust,
and if we have the skills for the job, then
please hire the best person for the job.
S1 (17:45):
It sounds like great advice. So, Melissa, let's just talk
about this extremely accomplished family. So we have you who
is doing some wonderful things in terms of education and
developing programs for children who are blind to low vision.
And Ollie, you are not only 14 year old working with.
A part time job in school, but an entrepreneur who
(18:07):
is selling his own woodworking. So we've got a pretty
accomplished family. Melissa. What do you want to do next?
S3 (18:16):
I would really love to say we've been working on
some certificates for students to do while they're in schools
that are registered, vocational education and training certificates with Vision Australia.
So I'd love to see those out in schools and
I'd really love I know there's some really exciting things
happening in Virgin Australia and their children's services and youth services,
(18:37):
so I'd love to be involved in some of that
if I can push my way in and also continue
to teach future teachers. And one thing I want future
teachers to know is to listen to the voice of
students and to get them to tell you how they
learn best so that they can become really confident individuals
(18:57):
who go out and get jobs.
S1 (18:59):
So tell me more about these certificates. So you want
to develop certificates for blind and low vision and what
do these certificates do?
S3 (19:08):
Actually developed the certificates, which is very exciting. So we
have the certificates students who are in senior, secondary, we
can do lots of students do take certificates, vocational education
and training certificates, and they do them instead of a
subject and they count two points towards their senior secondary.
(19:28):
Or they can if you do a certificate for they
can actually get you direct access to university certificates in
access technology. So helping students to learn ways to access
their own information, also to interact with other people in
employment and just skills to be ready for employment that
other people see incidentally through site.
S1 (19:51):
And how did the idea for these certificates come up?
S3 (19:54):
I guess it was just seeing a lot of different
students and the different access that they had to services
and the different upbringing and prior experiences of parents. Some
parents may not feel as confident or have as much
background in the area, and there's other parents that I
look up to and I go, Wow, you know, I'd
love to be a parent like you. And so it
(20:15):
was just about what sort of things could we do
that would then be quite standardised because we would be
able to provide them for all students and they could
work through these things and then go into employment. So yeah,
that was really the reason behind the certificates. And we've
had amazing people. We've had 96 people involved with the
certificates and 25 people who are all experts in their
(20:38):
field writing about them. So yeah, it's been a really
exciting project and they're going to be ready to roll
out in 2022 into schools.
S1 (20:47):
Ollie, would you be interested in taking some of these
certificates that your mum has developed in the future?
S2 (20:53):
Oh yeah, I'll do them. I might do it next
year if they're all ready for that.
S1 (20:57):
And how do you think those certificates could help you
in the future?
S2 (21:01):
I think it'd be really good as preparing me for
my jobs in that, so I would definitely want to
do them and hopefully they should be good for next year.
S1 (21:09):
Going back. We have not touched upon in this store
is the people who have come in, who have talked
about their experience and people who have become vision impaired
as as adults. We've had some people have entire lives.
We've had people who are athletes we really haven't talked
(21:30):
about is those foundational skills. When people are a babies
and toddlers skills, do you think are important to develop
at that age, to set kids up for success?
S3 (21:41):
Don't ever think that you can start early enough, really,
with Oliver, who started having to pack up his toys
right from a toddler and think that's the earliest type
of job, is that if you've made the mess, you
put it away. And so I think really we have
been trying to prepare him for employment by getting him
(22:02):
to do jobs in the house. Make your bed clean
up after yourself. And then now everything that we do
has been age appropriate. What would have our other kids
done at the age of seven? What would our other
kids done at the age of ten? So trying to
keep it all age appropriate, trying to make sure that
you're doing jobs, different things like social skills are really important.
(22:24):
Like Oliver was able to go to the manager and
look at him and make sure that he was able
to engage with him. And also, like Oliver said, there's
social interactions in the workplace, so you have to be
able to get on with other people. You have to
read their body language even if you can't see it.
Oliver said that he has customers come up to him
(22:45):
and he has to be able to tell people where
things are. So he has a really good map of
the store in his mind. And just that thinking around
how you're going to be able to do something differently.
So that problem solving is really important as well. And
I think that my husband and I really did a
lot of talking out loud with Ollie. I think most
(23:07):
people when your kids are little, you think about a
problem and you just sort of solve it in your head.
But we, you know, used to, oh, I won't be
able to get through this door because it seems to
be shut. What could I do? Could I open it? Yes,
I could. And it seems so silly at the time.
And I was actually talking to another new mum and
(23:27):
I said I used to be exhausted from talking all day,
but talking all day is what helps develop those concepts
so that if you can't see, you still know what's
going on. And it was, I guess, a bit of
running audio commentary about what the day was unfolding. But
I think those sorts of things have really helped. You know,
as we walk down the street, Oh, there's a lady
(23:49):
coming and she's smiling at us, we better smile at her.
So Oliver learnt that as someone came along, you should
smile at them. So just those little things I feel
were really important.
S1 (24:00):
Simple advice, but such powerful advice in a sighted world.
People assume that you can just see everything that's there. And,
you know, to have someone to describe it to you actually,
and what's happening rather than you don't have to worry
about it or you should be removed from it. So
I guess it's all about inclusion.
S3 (24:19):
Yeah, that's right. And it was difficult sometimes. As said,
I got so sick of my own voice, but at
the same time it just helped to describe what was
around and what was happening, so that Oliver was never
scared of anything really. Yeah. Obviously he would ride his bike.
What other things have you done, Ollie? You want to
(24:39):
go hang gliding? I'm not sure about that.
S1 (24:41):
Skydiving? Oh, yeah, go skydiving. I mean. I mean, if
it's okay with your mom, go skydiving.
S6 (24:49):
Yes. Everything that's.
S3 (24:50):
Age appropriate.
S1 (24:51):
Today we had the absolute pleasure of speaking to a
promising young man, Ollie, who is developing his own business.
And is also working in the wonderful woman, Melissa Fanshawe,
who is helping shape the future of children with vision
impairments and blindness and really great human being. So thank
(25:13):
you both so much for joining me today.
S2 (25:16):
That's right. Thanks for having us.
S3 (25:18):
Yeah, thanks, Belinda. It's so wonderful to be able to
share with you because I'm just really passionate about ensuring
all of our future children are able to get jobs
and do the same as their sighted peers.
S1 (25:34):
The conversation doesn't have to stop here. Share this podcast
episode on social media and start a conversation with your friends, family,
and followers, or tell us what's on your mind. You
can provide feedback through the email Career podcast at Vision
Austria Walk The Career Path Podcast series is available to
download via our website. Just go to Vision Australia org
(25:57):
and type the career path into the search field to
find our webpage where you can listen to other episodes
benefit from a range of resources and subscribe to ensure
you don't miss any episodes or find us on your
favourite podcast platform. Remember to follow us on Facebook and
Twitter for updates and bonus content, Facebook.com slash radio network
(26:18):
and twitter.com slash radio network. Thanks for traveling with us
along the career path.
Hello and welcome to the Career Path. A recent report
from Sweeney and Vision Australia revealed that 83% of employers
surveyed lacked confidence in hiring someone with a vision impairment.
With this podcast, we hope to delve further into this
issue by speaking to job seekers, employers and employees to
hear their perspectives. Each episode will be available to download
(00:39):
as a podcast. Just go to Vision Austria org and
type the career path into the search engine to find
our webpage where you can listen to other episodes and
subscribe to make sure that you don't miss any. Hi,
I'm your host, Belinda Wilson. In today's episode, we will
be speaking with Oli Fanshawe, a 14 year old vision
impaired student who is currently working casually at IGA. We
(01:01):
also have Ali's mum, Melissa Fanshawe, senior lecturer for the
School of Education at the University of Southern Queensland. So Ali,
what do you currently do at the IGA?
S2 (01:12):
Um, well, I stack the shelves right now, so I
get my trolleys and then put them all out on
the shelves and do some presentation too. So bringing the
stock forward to make it look good for everyone.
S1 (01:23):
And how many days a week do you work at
the IGA?
S2 (01:26):
I'm at work two days a week and during the
school term I do six hours a week and then
on my holidays a bit more normally.
S1 (01:33):
Okay. So do you need any adjustments in order to
do your job?
S2 (01:37):
Well, no, I don't really have any. My boss is
really nice to me. Checks? What checks? Everything's right. Me
and really good with that. It works well.
S1 (01:47):
So with him checking everything that's right for you, what
sort of things does he do to support you?
S2 (01:52):
Oh, well, someone like he normally asked me. Are you
happy to put this up in the cafe? Like you're
happy to climb the ladder? And that I'm like, Yeah,
it's good. He he's always good at checking stuff, I guess.
S1 (02:02):
How do you tell what's on the labels of the
products you are putting on the shelves?
S2 (02:07):
Oh, when they're like far away. Like, if they're up
high and I can't read it then because I can't
get close, I just take a photo of it and
then read it.
S1 (02:14):
Okay, so you take a photo of the information and
then and then read it. And that's one adjustment.
S2 (02:19):
Yeah, that I can do it on that.
S1 (02:20):
So are there any other things that you find challenging
in your job that you need a bit of assistance with?
S2 (02:26):
Well, right now I'm not working in the checkout because
I don't think I'd be able to see it, but
I guess we'll see how it goes if I do
want to do it.
S1 (02:33):
So how did you find this job?
S2 (02:36):
Um, well, actually, I went down and asked him if
he wants me to work for him and asked me
if you needed any people. And I got the job
and I was lucky. And I really like it.
S1 (02:44):
You went down, you identified a place you wanted to
work out, which was the IGA. And you went down
there with with the resume?
S2 (02:52):
Yeah, that's right.
S1 (02:53):
And how did you know the right person to speak to?
S2 (02:56):
Oh, I just asked the people to check. Could I
talk to the manager? And they're like, Yeah, sure. And
I talked to him and then he told me to
come back next week. Then I got the job.
S1 (03:05):
So did he ask you any questions about your vision
impairment or did you disclose?
S2 (03:09):
Yeah, he asked. Look, he got some things to see
if I could read them. That'd be all right. And, yeah,
they were all good. So. Yeah.
S1 (03:17):
So at 14 years old, you went independently down to
your local IGA, provided a resume and asked for a job. Yeah.
And do you recommend this to your friends? Yeah, totally.
And you enjoying it? Do you like working at the idea?
S2 (03:31):
Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, I enjoy going there. It's really good.
S1 (03:34):
What do you like the best about it?
S2 (03:35):
Probably like when you work in the fridge or freezer
or not. And then you talk with others while you're
doing it, and I think that's good.
S1 (03:41):
So, Allie, what does it mean for you right now
to be employed?
S2 (03:45):
Well, I think it's really good because I can have
something to do, like fill in my time. I guess
I get a bit of a social aspect. And I
also like having a bit of money myself too.
S1 (03:57):
Throughout this podcast, there has been some difficulty in engaging
with employers. Some employers will be willing to release a statement,
but not necessarily talk about inclusivity. And one of the
points of this podcast is to try and include employers
who are open to hiring people who are blind and
low vision. Melissa What do you think makes Ali's employer
(04:21):
different from other employers?
S3 (04:23):
I think that he was impressed by Oliver being a
14 year old boy walking up, handing him his resume,
looking him in the eye and asking him for a job.
And then to him, I think that the vision impairment
was secondary. And so he asked Oliver what he would
(04:43):
do to overcome things. So he said, What will you
do when you can't see what the materials are and
think from memory? Ollie pulled out his phone and showed
him how he read it out. So I believe that
he was just open. Think that all employers have that
(05:03):
want to get the best and the most efficient employee.
And all of our came across that way because he
was confident he was walking efficiently. So he was going
to be a good fit for his company.
S1 (05:17):
So what I love about this is you said he
saw Ali before he saw the vision impairment.
S3 (05:22):
Absolutely. Guess that's exactly what it is.
S1 (05:25):
So, Ali, so far, you're saying you like talking with others,
maybe some customer service. Do you have any ideas for
careers you want to pursue in the future?
S2 (05:35):
Oh, I want to be either a cheapy or cabinetmaker.
S1 (05:37):
A chippy or a cabinetmaker. And why are you interested
in those roles?
S2 (05:41):
Oh, she liked woodworking, that sort of stuff. My cutting
boards and bowls and rolling pins and that. And some markets.
S1 (05:48):
What is the coolest thing that you have made?
S2 (05:51):
I made a couple stools which are pretty cool, like
rustic ones from logs and that.
S1 (05:55):
So you could potentially go into a business of making
furniture and wood wood products for people.
S2 (06:02):
Yeah, totally. Last weekend I had a market and I
made about $1,000 there.
S1 (06:06):
Wow. You made $1,000. How did you learn how to
do woodworking?
S2 (06:12):
Listening to things like YouTube and just trying it. And
then I got this guy named Gordon now and he
helps me out a bit through the Good.
S1 (06:19):
So when you started doing woodworking, were there any safety
concerns or anything like that?
S2 (06:25):
Oh, I guess a bit. But I'm pretty good now.
I know all the stuff I have and how to
use it safely.
S3 (06:30):
Would you like me to answer that, Belinda?
S4 (06:33):
Well, well, well.
S1 (06:35):
I mean, you know, Ali, I'm just I'm really fascinated
by the fact that you just made $1,000 worth of
woodworking products. And I understand sometimes your view of safety
might be a little bit bit different than your mom's
view of safety. So, Melissa, did you have any concerns
about Ali doing woodworking?
S3 (06:56):
Well, you know, of course, any 14 year old, you
would have concerns about woodworking. But Ollie has done some
sessions at Vision Australia and then we got him an
additional support worker who has an experience as a teacher
in woodwork. Also, Ollie does it at school and he'd
also done some certificates about safety. So once he'd done
(07:17):
those certificates he was able to use equipment. And there
are some tools that he has that he has to
use with an adult around, and that would be the
same as any other 14 year old.
S1 (07:26):
So were you a little concerned when he developed this
interest just as a mother of a 14 year old?
S3 (07:32):
Well, I was initially, but what he's created is so beautiful,
like the cutting boards that he's made and the bowls
and the stools, everything that he's done has just been
so beautiful that you can see that it's a really
wonderful passion. And you can really release, I don't know,
some of the frustrations that you might have in the
(07:52):
day that working with this beautiful wood and the smell
of it and the feel of it, I just yeah,
I really have just believe that it's something that makes
Ollie really passionate and happy. So it's important to him.
S1 (08:04):
So, Ollie, do you. Want to build something in the future.
Do you have something in mind? Project.
S2 (08:09):
Oh, I know. Just whatever I get asked to make
or whatever I find that I want to make, but
maybe some bedside tables I make or whatever. Really? I'll see.
S1 (08:19):
Melissa, you're both a mother of a vision impaired child
and a specialist in education for blind and low vision children.
So what sort of work do you do in this area?
S3 (08:28):
Yeah. So I'm a trained teacher of students with blindness
and low vision. But interestingly, I actually worked in the
field before we had all of us. So when we
had all of our I was very much, well, I've
worked with students with low vision and blindness and, you know,
it's just very different. It's about them being independent. It's
(08:50):
about still providing the same opportunities that you would for
anybody of the same age. And one of the things
that was really important to me was ensuring that Ollie
still did jobs in the house. And we've got four kids,
so you know that the other three didn't take on
the jobs in the house because he couldn't see as
well or those sorts of things. So he's always had chores.
(09:12):
He's always had to empty the dishwasher. We have had
to teach him, you know, how to feel safely for
the for the knives and make sure he doesn't miss
the glasses and things like that. But he cooks, he
cleans up. You know, he's pretty good for a 14
year old doing just things that any other child of
that age would do. And then now, as he's become
(09:32):
a teenager, he really wanted to get a job. And
to me, that's really important because when you go for
a full time job, you need that evidence on your
resume of having part time jobs. So it was all
off his own that he said, I want to go
down to the and ask for a job and said,
off you go. And he went down there and he
just really was able to, you know, interact with the
(09:56):
boss in the right way. And interestingly, I also watched
Ollie as he was at the market the other day
and people came up to him. And obviously he can't
see the people until they're really close, but he really
just had beautiful interaction with them. So he was like, Hi,
how are you going? These are the boards that I
made myself and I did this and this, and the
(10:16):
way that he interacted with the customers was just felt
really proud.
S1 (10:20):
That's lovely to hear that you have that pride. You
seem like a very confident parent, but not all parents
are confident, especially when it comes to to 14 year olds,
even parents whose children are not blind or low vision. Sometimes,
you know, they really want to protect their children. So
what sort of concerns do parents you usually have about
(10:42):
their blind or low vision children doing work or working
or getting careers?
S3 (10:47):
Yeah, absolutely right. Because most parents haven't actually met or
worked with people who have blindness or low vision. So
I really am grateful for that opportunity. One of the
things I think is safety. You think, oh gosh, if
you know, they're emptying the dishwasher and there's a knife,
they might cut themselves. Or if doing the cooking because
(11:07):
Ollie makes at least a meal a week in our house,
you know, if he's cutting the food, he might cut himself.
But it's just about training them to do things independently
because we don't want Ollie to become 18 and leave
home and not be able to take care of himself
like everybody else. So I think it is about independence
(11:27):
and providing opportunities to do things so that Ollie and
other children can be really independent in the community, like
the same age as I guess.
S1 (11:37):
I feel that there is that fear of safety in
that fear of letting a child out into the world
and those sort of things. So what advice would you
give for parents who want to support their kids into
being more employable?
S3 (11:49):
Oh, no. Should they close your own eyes? Because sometimes
and I mean that in that, you know, sometimes I
feel really scared of things that he's doing. I feel
scared If he's about to go on a bike and
he rides around and he really can't see where he's
going and all, he'll tell you that he'll fall off,
but he gets back up. And I think in terms
of being employable, the chores are really important. You know,
(12:12):
we need to be able to provide safe ways, teach
safe ways to do things, but you have to get
over your own fear, which is really difficult. And to
be able to find safe ways for your child or
your adolescent to be able to do things like their
same aged peers. And that's really important. Would you agree
(12:32):
that having done chores and things like that helped you
to be able to get a job early?
S2 (12:37):
Yeah, definitely, because I'm prepared and know to select to
do that. So I think it's really good.
S3 (12:42):
And your mom's already worked your hard, so you're ready
to go into the shop.
S1 (12:45):
Hey, Yeah. So, Melissa, what do you want? Farley's future.
S3 (12:50):
I want him, like, every mother, to be happy and
healthy and to be doing things that he likes and enjoys.
One of the things I think for the future of
people that are, you know, Ollie's age is that. They
won't always have one job for their whole life. So
it's about exploring multiple different things that you enjoy and
(13:12):
that you like so that you are prepared for sort
of different scenarios in life, I guess, and different gig
jobs that may come along. So just preparing skills and
being ready and resilient if things don't always go the
way you hope. Yes.
S1 (13:27):
So, Ali, in terms of school, what are you learning
right now?
S2 (13:32):
Subjects like good in construction business and economics, like food tech,
something else, enrichment.
S1 (13:38):
And do you have any barriers when it comes to
accessing the materials or anything like that? Not really.
S2 (13:43):
No. It's pretty good.
S3 (13:44):
I think you've learnt a lot of skills over time
and people have come in and supported you to learn
those skills so that now that you're quite independent in
terms of accessing education.
S1 (13:54):
I think, I think sometimes we think about the now
and not, not how we got here, which is which
is kind of a wonderful thing to say. You know,
that you're independent and that you know how to advocate
for yourself, which is something that's really difficult for a
lot of a lot of people your age to do.
Do you find it hard to kind of speak up
for yourself if if situations do happen?
S2 (14:15):
I'm not too bad with it. But yeah, I guess
sometimes it can be hard.
S1 (14:20):
Yeah. And when when things get hard and you have
trouble talking, you know about your needs. Do you speak
to your other students or do you speak to your teachers?
S2 (14:29):
No, not really. I guess I'm really pretty good.
S3 (14:32):
You have spoken to your teachers. You know, you were
looking at using PowerPoint in a different way and you
did speak to the teacher and explain to her how
you used it and how it helped you to access.
S2 (14:43):
Yeah. And sometimes, like, it's really annoying because people step
in and try to advocate for you, but like they
haven't even talked to you about it. And it's just
really frustrating when they do that and then you don't
even know.
S1 (14:53):
That's really interesting. So what do you mean people try
to try to step in and advocate for you?
S2 (14:58):
Well, when I was doing food tech, some of them
stepped in and tried to tell them that my dog
wasn't allowed in there before I even had talked to them.
But it's actually up to them if they're allowed in.
Then they already talked to the teacher and said, My
dog's not allowed in and all this stuff.
S1 (15:13):
So they just weren't aware of the rules.
S2 (15:15):
She just told them the dog wasn't allowed in and
I have to find a spot for her to go
before even talking to me. So I found that to
be annoying.
S3 (15:23):
Another thing that you talked about was when you're in class,
you actually like to try and do everything yourself without
someone like a teacher aide or anything beside you.
S5 (15:32):
Yeah.
S2 (15:33):
And so as a teacher, I'd just come in like
talk over the teacher and then knowing that too.
S1 (15:39):
So you want people to give you a chance to
explain yourself before they jump in?
S2 (15:44):
Yeah, that's right.
S1 (15:46):
Yeah. And, you know, I think that's coming from probably
a good place. They're trying to help you, but you
just want to be able to speak for yourself.
S2 (15:52):
Yeah, exactly.
S1 (15:53):
So what's your dog's name?
S2 (15:55):
Oh, Sadie. She's a golden retriever. And I got her
in Melbourne in Kensington in February this year.
S1 (16:01):
Oh, February. So you had her for a little while now.
So to have you and Sadie getting along.
S2 (16:07):
Yeah. Really good. She's awesome.
S1 (16:09):
And is she your first dog?
S2 (16:11):
Oh, firstly, I Dog. Yeah.
S1 (16:13):
Yeah. And how has that changed your life?
S2 (16:15):
Well, it's been really good. Just making the walk faster and, like,
more confident and all that.
S1 (16:20):
So what sort of things can can you do with
Sadie that you couldn't do before?
S2 (16:25):
Just makes me faster, I guess. Um, just to know
about more things in the area, like, makes a lot
quicker not having to think as much and that.
S1 (16:35):
And as Sadie go to work with you.
S2 (16:37):
As you leave her at home because it's only 300m
from my house.
S1 (16:40):
So, Ali, I know that you are super confident. You
are super confident. You you have gone in and you
have asked for this job and you've spoken to the
manager and you've done all these great things. But for
some of the other people, they may not be as confident.
So if you were to speak to an employer, what
advice would you give them for hiring someone who's blind
(17:01):
or low vision?
S2 (17:02):
No offer is give you to go and don't don't
worry about the others. Think I guess. And look. Yeah.
S1 (17:09):
What about Mum? What advice would you give to employers
about hiring people who are blind? In my vision, I.
S3 (17:14):
Think that if somebody can do the job and has
the skills to do the job, that you should give
everyone a go and just listen to them about what
ways would work best for them. And everybody has different things.
Like I'm actually really short and I wouldn't be able
to reach the top shelf. So we all have different
things that we need accommodations for. And if people can
open their mind and just realize that we're all different,
(17:37):
we all have different ways that we need to adjust,
and if we have the skills for the job, then
please hire the best person for the job.
S1 (17:45):
It sounds like great advice. So, Melissa, let's just talk
about this extremely accomplished family. So we have you who
is doing some wonderful things in terms of education and
developing programs for children who are blind to low vision.
And Ollie, you are not only 14 year old working with.
A part time job in school, but an entrepreneur who
(18:07):
is selling his own woodworking. So we've got a pretty
accomplished family. Melissa. What do you want to do next?
S3 (18:16):
I would really love to say we've been working on
some certificates for students to do while they're in schools
that are registered, vocational education and training certificates with Vision Australia.
So I'd love to see those out in schools and
I'd really love I know there's some really exciting things
happening in Virgin Australia and their children's services and youth services,
(18:37):
so I'd love to be involved in some of that
if I can push my way in and also continue
to teach future teachers. And one thing I want future
teachers to know is to listen to the voice of
students and to get them to tell you how they
learn best so that they can become really confident individuals
(18:57):
who go out and get jobs.
S1 (18:59):
So tell me more about these certificates. So you want
to develop certificates for blind and low vision and what
do these certificates do?
S3 (19:08):
Actually developed the certificates, which is very exciting. So we
have the certificates students who are in senior, secondary, we
can do lots of students do take certificates, vocational education
and training certificates, and they do them instead of a
subject and they count two points towards their senior secondary.
(19:28):
Or they can if you do a certificate for they
can actually get you direct access to university certificates in
access technology. So helping students to learn ways to access
their own information, also to interact with other people in
employment and just skills to be ready for employment that
other people see incidentally through site.
S1 (19:51):
And how did the idea for these certificates come up?
S3 (19:54):
I guess it was just seeing a lot of different
students and the different access that they had to services
and the different upbringing and prior experiences of parents. Some
parents may not feel as confident or have as much
background in the area, and there's other parents that I
look up to and I go, Wow, you know, I'd
love to be a parent like you. And so it
(20:15):
was just about what sort of things could we do
that would then be quite standardised because we would be
able to provide them for all students and they could
work through these things and then go into employment. So yeah,
that was really the reason behind the certificates. And we've
had amazing people. We've had 96 people involved with the
certificates and 25 people who are all experts in their
(20:38):
field writing about them. So yeah, it's been a really
exciting project and they're going to be ready to roll
out in 2022 into schools.
S1 (20:47):
Ollie, would you be interested in taking some of these
certificates that your mum has developed in the future?
S2 (20:53):
Oh yeah, I'll do them. I might do it next
year if they're all ready for that.
S1 (20:57):
And how do you think those certificates could help you
in the future?
S2 (21:01):
I think it'd be really good as preparing me for
my jobs in that, so I would definitely want to
do them and hopefully they should be good for next year.
S1 (21:09):
Going back. We have not touched upon in this store
is the people who have come in, who have talked
about their experience and people who have become vision impaired
as as adults. We've had some people have entire lives.
We've had people who are athletes we really haven't talked
(21:30):
about is those foundational skills. When people are a babies
and toddlers skills, do you think are important to develop
at that age, to set kids up for success?
S3 (21:41):
Don't ever think that you can start early enough, really,
with Oliver, who started having to pack up his toys
right from a toddler and think that's the earliest type
of job, is that if you've made the mess, you
put it away. And so I think really we have
been trying to prepare him for employment by getting him
(22:02):
to do jobs in the house. Make your bed clean
up after yourself. And then now everything that we do
has been age appropriate. What would have our other kids
done at the age of seven? What would our other
kids done at the age of ten? So trying to
keep it all age appropriate, trying to make sure that
you're doing jobs, different things like social skills are really important.
(22:24):
Like Oliver was able to go to the manager and
look at him and make sure that he was able
to engage with him. And also, like Oliver said, there's
social interactions in the workplace, so you have to be
able to get on with other people. You have to
read their body language even if you can't see it.
Oliver said that he has customers come up to him
(22:45):
and he has to be able to tell people where
things are. So he has a really good map of
the store in his mind. And just that thinking around
how you're going to be able to do something differently.
So that problem solving is really important as well. And
I think that my husband and I really did a
lot of talking out loud with Ollie. I think most
(23:07):
people when your kids are little, you think about a
problem and you just sort of solve it in your head.
But we, you know, used to, oh, I won't be
able to get through this door because it seems to
be shut. What could I do? Could I open it? Yes,
I could. And it seems so silly at the time.
And I was actually talking to another new mum and
(23:27):
I said I used to be exhausted from talking all day,
but talking all day is what helps develop those concepts
so that if you can't see, you still know what's
going on. And it was, I guess, a bit of
running audio commentary about what the day was unfolding. But
I think those sorts of things have really helped. You know,
as we walk down the street, Oh, there's a lady
(23:49):
coming and she's smiling at us, we better smile at her.
So Oliver learnt that as someone came along, you should
smile at them. So just those little things I feel
were really important.
S1 (24:00):
Simple advice, but such powerful advice in a sighted world.
People assume that you can just see everything that's there. And,
you know, to have someone to describe it to you actually,
and what's happening rather than you don't have to worry
about it or you should be removed from it. So
I guess it's all about inclusion.
S3 (24:19):
Yeah, that's right. And it was difficult sometimes. As said,
I got so sick of my own voice, but at
the same time it just helped to describe what was
around and what was happening, so that Oliver was never
scared of anything really. Yeah. Obviously he would ride his bike.
What other things have you done, Ollie? You want to
(24:39):
go hang gliding? I'm not sure about that.
S1 (24:41):
Skydiving? Oh, yeah, go skydiving. I mean. I mean, if
it's okay with your mom, go skydiving.
S6 (24:49):
Yes. Everything that's.
S3 (24:50):
Age appropriate.
S1 (24:51):
Today we had the absolute pleasure of speaking to a
promising young man, Ollie, who is developing his own business.
And is also working in the wonderful woman, Melissa Fanshawe,
who is helping shape the future of children with vision
impairments and blindness and really great human being. So thank
(25:13):
you both so much for joining me today.
S2 (25:16):
That's right. Thanks for having us.
S3 (25:18):
Yeah, thanks, Belinda. It's so wonderful to be able to
share with you because I'm just really passionate about ensuring
all of our future children are able to get jobs
and do the same as their sighted peers.
S1 (25:34):
The conversation doesn't have to stop here. Share this podcast
episode on social media and start a conversation with your friends, family,
and followers, or tell us what's on your mind. You
can provide feedback through the email Career podcast at Vision
Austria Walk The Career Path Podcast series is available to
download via our website. Just go to Vision Australia org
(25:57):
and type the career path into the search field to
find our webpage where you can listen to other episodes
benefit from a range of resources and subscribe to ensure
you don't miss any episodes or find us on your
favourite podcast platform. Remember to follow us on Facebook and
Twitter for updates and bonus content, Facebook.com slash radio network
(26:18):
and twitter.com slash radio network. Thanks for traveling with us
along the career path.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.