May 19, 2022 • 27 mins
Going for Gold!
Katie Kelly (OAM, Ambassador, Advocate, and two time Paralympian), talks about her incredible athletic accomplishments, her creation of a charity, and her work in Inclusion.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to the Career Path. A recent report
from Sweeney and Vision Australia revealed that 83% of employers
surveyed lacked confidence in hiring someone with a vision impairment.
With this podcast, we hope to delve further into this
issue by speaking to job seekers, employers and employees to
hear their perspective. This podcast is made possible with the
(00:38):
support of Vision Australia and the NDIS. Information Linkages and
Capacity Building Grant. A huge thanks to all of you
who submitted input into this podcast and all of those involved.
Each episode will be available to download As a podcast.
Just go to Vision Australia org and type the career
path into the search engine to find our webpage where
(01:00):
you can listen to other episodes and subscribe to make
sure that you don't miss any. I'm your host, Belinda Wilson.
Today we are speaking with Katie Kelly, OAM, ambassador advocate
and two time paralympian. Katie, thank you so much for
joining us today.
S2 (01:17):
Hi Belinda, It's great to be here. Thank you.
S1 (01:19):
Katie. In Rio in 2016, you competed as a paratriathlon
and were the first Australian to win gold in the sport.
You also just returned from the Tokyo Paralympics. How are
you feeling?
S2 (01:31):
I'm feeling happy and very content. It's been a massive campaign.
Obviously Tokyo with all the challenges with the pandemic, it
became a five year campaign rather than a four year campaign,
and I was very grateful to get there and to
do the job our team had worked so hard to do.
So it was lovely to get home. Obviously, quarantine was
(01:52):
a is always something you have to do not necessarily
want to do, but we were well set up for that.
And since then I've had a nice holiday and now
I'm sort of settling into some new projects and getting
back on board with my foundation.
S1 (02:07):
So, Katie, you have Usher syndrome. For those listeners who
are not familiar, can you explain what Usher's is and
how it affects your sight and hearing?
S2 (02:15):
Ashley Syndrome is a deafblind condition. It's a genetic condition,
and I believe it affects about one in 4 or
5 young children with a hearing loss. I was diagnosed
with Usher syndrome at the age of 22, but my
teacher and my parents picked up on my hearing and
my deafness at the age of 5 or 6, and
they never knew the cause of it. And it wasn't
(02:37):
until I was at uni and I was struggling to
see at night. And funny enough, I used to be
an usher for the performing arts and I dreaded people
coming in once the lights went down, you know, for
the ballet and Phantom of the Opera and so on,
I'd have to usher them to their seats with the torch,
and I'd always use the torch for myself. I couldn't
quite figure out why I was struggling. So eventually I
(02:59):
saw an ophthalmologist about at the age of 22, and
he said, Katie, the reason for your hearing loss is
you have this combined genetic condition resulting in deafness and
eyesight loss Usher syndrome. And that was the first time
I ever heard those words. So that's, you know, now
25 years ago.
S1 (03:16):
Wow. So since then, I'm assuming you've learned a lot
more about Usher syndrome, it's causes and how it affects people.
S2 (03:23):
Absolutely. And I think it was the first time I
met somebody with Usher syndrome was probably my mid-thirties When
I work in a pro-bono role for the Australian Deaf
Olympic team as a media officer and one of the
athletes had Usher syndrome. But now and with the advent
of social media, there's a lot more visibility and groups
and there's some fantastic social media groups where the Usher
(03:46):
community is coming together both in Australia and internationally, and
also with that, more research, more awareness and diagnosis at
a much younger age.
S1 (03:55):
You've spoken about difficulties with employers attitudes when looking for employment.
You also stated that you tried to hide your disability.
What can you share with us about your challenges in
job seeking and finding employment?
S2 (04:07):
When I started in the workforce, this was I graduated
from uni in 95, so we're talking 96, 97. I
was very much of the view that I didn't want
employers to notice my hearing loss and that I wore
hearing aids. My eyesight loss wasn't such a problem then
because I do have excellent central vision, just no peripheral.
(04:28):
And I never wanted them to know that I wore
hearing aids because I had this lifelong insecurity from a
little young girl of, you know, the awful connotation of
people with hearing loss are deaf and dumb. And that
reference is so derogatory in many ways. And so I
just didn't want them to view me as any less
capable than the next person going for that job. And
(04:50):
that was probably more driven from me than them. But
I think the difference now is podcasts like this and
the conversations we're having and the visibility of Paralympians, more
organisations are aware of the need to be inclusive and
think about the language that they use, their employment recruitment
process and how they basically include everyone to the table
(05:14):
to have the opportunity to be part of the workforce.
So more and more I think that's less of a concern.
But still a lot of work has to be done
to advocate and raise awareness for people with disabilities so
that they don't feel that they can't contribute and obviously
be part of the workforce.
S1 (05:31):
You brought up that horrific term that they assume people
were deaf and dumb. So what sort of assumptions did
they make about you being a person with a hearing
impairment or a vision impairment?
S2 (05:42):
I guess, you know, the old assumption is not able
to communicate, has low comprehension, isn't able to be involved
in discussions and really not one able to contribute to
day to day conversations and everyday tasks and so on.
I'm very proud to be part of the deaf and
hard of hearing community, and I sit on the board
(06:04):
of Deaf Sports. And on the cooperation of the Australian
Death Games, which is being held next April 22nd in
Newcastle and Lake Macquarie. I've had this wonderful opportunity through
the success of being a Paralympian and the gold medallist
to advocate for people with disabilities, including the vision impaired community,
and I also feel I have a very unique perspective,
(06:25):
someone with two senses loss. You look at me and,
you know, two legs, two arms. I'm not in a
chair like some of my mates are or amputee. And
there's also the need to educate people that someone who
doesn't obviously look perhaps like they might have a physical
challenge or disability, that there might be something else at play.
(06:47):
And just to be considerate of that.
S1 (06:50):
That horrible thing that we've probably all heard, you don't
look disabled.
S2 (06:54):
Yeah, and it's not that I want to look disabled
or any disabled person identifies themselves as disabled. I know
Carly Findlay, for example. I follow her on Twitter and
she's a tremendous advocate. And she she prides herself in
describing it as part of the disability community. And I'm
a disabled woman with her challenges and my foundation support access,
we do use the reference. We provide grants for young
(07:15):
Australians with the disability. But as a person, a young
child growing up in a country town, I didn't see
myself as a disability. I didn't want to be seen
to be different. So I'm not a big fan of
that word and I love the fact that our indigenous
people I have a mentor, Deborah, who said, Katie, we
actually don't have a word for disability in our language,
(07:36):
she said. We refer more to diverse names and I
like that term. I love.
S3 (07:40):
That.
S2 (07:41):
Every term in reference has a purpose and it's been
mindful of how we apply those terms and in what context.
S1 (07:49):
You created the Sports Access Foundation in 2017. Can you
tell us about the foundation, its partners and its goals?
S2 (07:57):
Yes. So winning the gold medal in Rio, like obviously
it was an extraordinary moment, one I'll never forget in
September 2016. And it was in December, I met a
young girl who lost her sight literally within weeks, overnight
due to a very aggressive form of leukaemia. And young
Ruby from Sydney had been following my Paralympic story and
(08:19):
I actually got to meet her. And meeting Ruby reminded
me and you know, it put my challenges and vision
loss in perspective. But she was so excited about holding
that gold medal and she asked me about the guide
and the tether and and here's a young girl that
loved to swim and run and now has vision loss
and he's blind and wants to continue playing sports. So
(08:41):
I got her a tether and I talked to her
dad about some sporting clubs. And after that, I knew
I needed to do more. And there were other motivations
with that lifelong motivations of importance of sport for all
of us to feel included and to belong. And we
all had those tremendous memories as young children playing sports
with our mates like it's the best feeling ever. And
(09:02):
for a child to be left on the sideline and
not to be able to participate because of a disability
or a challenge they have, it's just not right. So
we set up the Sport Access Foundation with the help
of my brothers and friends in January 2017, literally on
a Friday. Bill Moss, former chairman of Macquarie Bank, was
my first donor, so that was enough for us to
set up and to launch our first round of grants
(09:23):
that year.
S1 (09:24):
And so since 2017, do you know how many grants
you've given out since then?
S2 (09:29):
Yeah, absolutely. So we probably awarded over 50 grants. We've
had over 300 young Australians aged 7 to 17 apply
from every state and territory. When I looked at the
list last year, there were over 45 unique disabilities, some
overlapping of our applicants, and that's from a list of
about 110. So we offer grants to help kids aged
(09:52):
7 to 13 to get started just to help them
join the local sporting club, help with paying fees and coaches, etcetera.
And then we have another grant for those that are
sort of more developed and need equipment or other coaching costs, etcetera.
And then we have one those that are on the
pathway to the Paralympics. So they're literally they've represented Australia
(10:13):
and they're at the costs of going into high performance
in that regard. So we try and cater for each
life stage of a young individual through their sporting participation.
S1 (10:23):
You're literally leading kids on the path to the Paralympics.
S2 (10:26):
Well, I think every Aussie able to with a physical
challenge or intellectual, we all probably have those dreams. Wouldn't
it be awesome to represent Australia? I think all of
us have that. You know, some of us have that
amazing opportunity to do that. Not always in sport, in
other fields of course, to go to the highest level.
So we want to ensure young Australians know that they
(10:48):
can aspire for that regardless of what their circumstances are.
And I also bringing to that our young Indigenous Australians.
I mean they really have limited opportunity to play club sport.
I think it's something that Australia in the community we
need to work. Much more in getting indigenous kids involved
in sporting clubs because of the, you know, the challenges
(11:11):
for them with barriers could expense, etcetera. But yes, it's
lovely that a young child who's 6 or 7 and
is awarded a $200 grant, you know, that gives them
a boost and knows that, hey, someone cares and someone
believes that I can be the best version of myself.
And yeah, I could represent Australia in my sport.
S1 (11:29):
I think as a kid, just having someone believe in
you and back you up is so powerful.
S2 (11:34):
Absolutely. What I love about Sport Access Foundation is I
am a bit time poor with it, like none of
us are paid as regards registered charity. So we try
and do what we can around our respective family and
work commitments. But during COVID lockdowns last year, I was
able to set up a Zoom call with recipients to
join in. And they were, you know, James and Leighton
(11:57):
from Dundee, who does book Cheer and Cold Case down
in Victoria, who's a swimmer, and Finn Broadbent, who's a
wheelchair tennis player. And these guys and girls were getting
on the Zoom. And for them to have that community
and be able to talk to each other, it's so wonderful,
isn't it, when you have others around you who just
have an understanding and know what it's like, you know?
(12:17):
And so I'm a big believer in inclusion and integration,
but I also think it's wonderful to have like minded
groups of people and children and teenagers to come together
with the similarities so that they can really help each
other along the way.
S1 (12:33):
So, Katie, in addition to your amazing achievements in athletics,
you've also worked in consumer sports marketing for over 15 years.
Some of those organisations that you've worked with are Australian
Paralympic Committee, NRL, ANZ Stadium and Tabcorp. How have they
been different from other employers?
S2 (12:52):
I guess an organisation and the way they are, it
really comes down from the top up, isn't it, in
terms of what's the value of that organisation, what's it
purpose and what's there? I guess you know those vision
statements that all employees buy into and all decisions in
that organisations are driven by. So for example that Melbourne
(13:14):
Storm was very John Ribot was the founder and people
know him in Rugby league world. He set up Brisbane
Broncos and Melbourne Storm and he asked me to come
and join Melbourne Storm from Sydney and he was wonderful
and you know, I felt equal. John never made me
feel any different and I was the membership manager down
there and the competitive AFL market for rugby league. The
(13:35):
vision statement of the club was relentless pursuit of excellence.
It's a very result driven kind of vision statement. Obviously
there's nothing in there about respecting diversity and inclusion, but
increasingly that sort of language is coming into those vision statements.
An organisation like that, it was about, you know, you
were judged on on merit, on what you contribute, and
(13:58):
it was very much a team culture. And I think
sometimes vision statements don't always have the words, but it's
the actions of people in that organisation and Melbourne Storm,
it was probably the best two years of my life.
But fast forward I worked for the NT Government in
the Department of Sport and Rec on some of their
events and the CEO at the time he called me
(14:18):
into his office. I'd been in that role for about
three months or even less and he said, Katie, I
just wanted to check in how you were going and
was there anything you needed from us? So he didn't
particularly refer to my hearing loss. And my my vision
was becoming apparent by then. He simply asked me, was
there anything else they could do to support me? So
that was the first time a CEO or anyone in
(14:40):
a workplace checked in on me on that level. And
and it was just great because I didn't have to.
I'm very open about talking about my disability now, but
I didn't really have to make a point of it then.
But he made me feel very comfortable at ease and
that it wasn't a problem. It was. It's more about
this is the question we asked everyone and we check in.
(15:00):
But secondly to that, I've just started a role with
BlueScope and I'm working in their social impact and inclusion team.
Obviously BlueScope is, I think it's a $9 billion company,
16,000 employees, 18 global offices. So an organization of that level,
they need to have very clear vision statements and values
around all aspects in equal opportunity, human rights, in diversity
(15:24):
and inclusion and fair work and so on. It's more
than a piece of paper. It has to be embedded
and it has to have very clear principles to guide managers, etcetera,
and how to implement those policies. And also how do
you get all your 16,000 employees on board with those policies?
That's the next challenge.
S1 (15:42):
Absolutely. Absolutely. About having buy in on all levels, not
just on one level that's so incredibly important.
S2 (15:50):
It's making it relevant, too. So you might be somebody
who works, you know, making the steel or the raw products,
or you might be somebody that works in the marketing
and brand team. So employees are coming from very different
angles themselves and different life experience. The. To is language
that's relevant, that employees have contributed to that conversation and
that there's some really good communication tools to continually bring
(16:13):
those discussions to the table in a way that's relevant
around the watercooler, you know, talking about equal opportunities and
gender equality and that sort of thing.
S1 (16:22):
Yeah. And these are conversations that unfortunately haven't really been had,
you know, in the earlier years. They just weren't discussed.
So sometimes there can be a bit of discomfort in
terms of having those conversations. What advice would you give
to employers or companies about starting that conversation about inclusivity?
S2 (16:41):
The thing is the way forward in terms of sustainability
and the organizations that will thrive in this modern time
are those that embrace those social, environmental and ethical issues.
Employees and human rights in general were very intelligent, capable
and largely empathetic. And we are all touched by issues
(17:04):
around gender and human rights and disability and so on.
So everyone has a touch point to some of those
major social issues. And the appetite and the expectation of
Australians within the workforce is that they look to their
employers to lead and they're inspired when their employers are
(17:25):
perhaps making news because they've innovated with an environmentally friendly
new product or service, or they're brought in a more
accessible type of technology or communication tools that the vision
impaired community can access. Those things are real. I haven't
I don't know the statistics, but I know I have
heard of there's a point where we were motivated by
(17:46):
our salary and income, but there's a point there where
it's more about my values and how does it sit
within this organization and how is my organization leading in
terms of being an ethical, responsible organization that's caring for
the environment, caring for the community and investing in the future?
S1 (18:07):
Some people with disabilities or particular genders or indigenous people
really have problems in terms of even accessing what type
of jobs are out there or physically accessing jobs that
are posted. What advice would you give to employers about
making the recruitment and hiring process more accessible?
S2 (18:26):
You look within the HR, you look at the recruitment
policies and how it's done and really having a closer
look at that and saying, are we this particular role?
It might be an admin role, it might be an apprenticeship,
it could be a delivery person. It's like, who could
apply for this job and what communities are we missing
out on here? What individuals might not be able to apply?
(18:49):
And I'm hearing of organizations almost doing an audit of
their roles to assess how accessible is this role to
different types of people. So for a working mum, is
it flexible? There's a lot of roles we know that
have been traditionally white male, 9 to 5, perhaps partner
and children at home, etcetera. And we know that is
completely shifted and is not the common reality for everyone.
(19:13):
So it would be a, you know, an obligation of
organizations that they are considering in their recruitment process. Have
we provide this job description online with somebody signing it or,
you know, a data transcription or other means that people
might need to communicate. And likewise, a person applies for
(19:34):
a role that the language around that description is also
very inclusive. It makes a statement. We we welcome people
of diverse backgrounds. We encourage you to let us know
if there's anything else you need from us in terms
of applying for this role in terms of either material
or access to come to the interview, etcetera. And it's
just been very open and forthcoming about that. That only
(19:57):
comes when the organization has clear sort of goals, objectives
that we want to be inclusive, we want to be
diverse and we want to open our roles up to
the full community as much as possible. And then you go, Well,
how are we going to do that? And some of
those examples, I just gave you a very simplified, practical
examples of how that could be done.
S1 (20:18):
So you've inspired a generation of children with disabilities to
engage in every aspect of life. Most importantly, you've been
focused on sports. What advice would you give to the
next generation of job seekers?
S2 (20:31):
I guess and this is whatever your situation is. I
was talking to a University of Newcastle sport management students
on Zoom last week and I was asked a similar
question and I said very much that is making yourself
available from the start. Obviously your community projects that align
(20:52):
to your interests. So when I was studying at uni,
I did a camp instructor with the New South Wales
Department Sport and Rec. It wasn't a paid role. It
was volunteer to go on holiday camps with young kids.
So you did the whole offering of sport and recreation
during the summer holidays. I had another role on the
My local Councils access committee, which was about a group
(21:13):
of people with disabilities coming together and advising the council
on where investment needed to be made to make the
community more inclusive for people with diverse needs. And so
I was always seeking out those sorts of opportunities to
get exposure and to meet people and real life examples.
And none of that was sort of pay. My pay
job was, you know, KFC and Kmart. So I certainly
(21:36):
encourage anyone, whatever their situation. Young people to do that
sort of thing and then get people with disabilities is,
you know, your story and the challenges you've overcome. And
I see this in the young Australians who apply for
our grants. Your qualities are you've worked hard, you've had
to adjust and modify. You constantly do that every day. Resilience,
(22:00):
You eat it for breakfast. You know, you've got a
lot of grit and these qualities employers love. And we
know that people with disabilities is a lower churn rate.
They tend to stay in a role longer than people
without disability. And not to say people without disability don't
have these qualities, but they're the strengths. When you've overcome
some challenges that mean you have to continue to adapt
(22:22):
and modify to the world around you. There's some great
tools that you develop over your lifetime and that you
can bring to your role. So have confidence in that.
S1 (22:31):
Speaking of grit and confidence and all those wonderful things,
you've demonstrated, such perseverance and determination to reach your goals.
What's next for you?
S2 (22:41):
Oh, I'm so excited. Mean being a high performance triathlete.
I got in the program in 2015 and it was
by way of losing my sight. I was told I
was legally blind and I rang triathlon. Australia wanted to
do the Hawaii Ironman and they said, Katie, we're looking
for vision impaired athletes for Rio in eight months time.
So it was something I never planned for, had expected.
(23:02):
You know, I did everything the wrong way around. Belinda
I started high performance career in triathlon at 39, so
fast forward six and a half, seven years. I can
tell you I'm very grateful that it's come to an end.
The hard training days that were intense. And now that
I'm out of it, I look at it and go, Wow,
how did I do it? Like, I really had the
blinkers on. It was just all consuming the two races
(23:24):
Rio and 16 and Tokyo 21. I put a lot
of things on hold, including studying and other career aspirations.
So I'm really excited. I've just been accepted into executive
MBA course. That just started my job with BlueScope and
there's some other projects underway, so it's just great. I
feel very happy and also very thankful. Paratriathlon high performance
(23:47):
has given me a lot of new opportunities, particularly a
platform to work in the diversity and inclusion and advocacy space.
S1 (23:55):
I can't wait to see what you do in that space.
I'm so excited to hear how you're going to be
just changing the world.
S2 (24:03):
I don't know about changing the world, but I love
something that Oprah said she talks about. We've all got
our own platform and she talks about her local butcher
and she said he's so passionate about his meats. And
we just Oprah, you know, this meat, he's got this
in it. And and she said that's his platform. He
wants to share and educate people about good meats and
where they come from and how it can be sustainable.
(24:25):
And I love that. I think, you know, the work
that you're doing in Australia. Peter Greco A talking vision.
People like that inspire me because it continually doing their
work and doing it, you know, a full potential. And
so I guess from my perspective is, yeah, I've got
some wonderful opportunity to really want to try and do
(24:45):
the best I can with those.
S1 (24:47):
Well, just to finish off, you've mentioned because I did
a little bit of stalking that your favourite quote is
We are just Travellers here by Mary MacKillop. So what
does that mean to you?
S2 (24:59):
Well, it's a reminder of we're all passing through, right?
And I think it's a lot of, a lot in
there about humility. Also those that have been here before us.
And I think about, for example, the Paralympic movement, what
a wonderful movement. And there I was a part of
two Paralympic teams. But I think about the original members
(25:19):
of that Paralympic team back in 1960. And Daphne, her
surname was just lost me and she was a mum
in a wheelchair and I can't imagine what it would
have been like in the 1950s and 60 to have
that condition or challenge. And so those things really sit
strongly with me as a reminder of those that have
been before us. We're passing through and what are we
(25:43):
doing here? Obviously, to contribute and lay some good foundation
for our future.
S1 (25:49):
That was Katie Kelly, two time para triathlete and ambassador
and advocate. Thank you so much for joining us on
the career path. The conversation doesn't have to stop here.
S4 (26:03):
She.
S1 (26:04):
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(26:25):
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(26:49):
for traveling with us along the career path.
Hello and welcome to the Career Path. A recent report
from Sweeney and Vision Australia revealed that 83% of employers
surveyed lacked confidence in hiring someone with a vision impairment.
With this podcast, we hope to delve further into this
issue by speaking to job seekers, employers and employees to
hear their perspective. This podcast is made possible with the
(00:38):
support of Vision Australia and the NDIS. Information Linkages and
Capacity Building Grant. A huge thanks to all of you
who submitted input into this podcast and all of those involved.
Each episode will be available to download As a podcast.
Just go to Vision Australia org and type the career
path into the search engine to find our webpage where
(01:00):
you can listen to other episodes and subscribe to make
sure that you don't miss any. I'm your host, Belinda Wilson.
Today we are speaking with Katie Kelly, OAM, ambassador advocate
and two time paralympian. Katie, thank you so much for
joining us today.
S2 (01:17):
Hi Belinda, It's great to be here. Thank you.
S1 (01:19):
Katie. In Rio in 2016, you competed as a paratriathlon
and were the first Australian to win gold in the sport.
You also just returned from the Tokyo Paralympics. How are
you feeling?
S2 (01:31):
I'm feeling happy and very content. It's been a massive campaign.
Obviously Tokyo with all the challenges with the pandemic, it
became a five year campaign rather than a four year campaign,
and I was very grateful to get there and to
do the job our team had worked so hard to do.
So it was lovely to get home. Obviously, quarantine was
(01:52):
a is always something you have to do not necessarily
want to do, but we were well set up for that.
And since then I've had a nice holiday and now
I'm sort of settling into some new projects and getting
back on board with my foundation.
S1 (02:07):
So, Katie, you have Usher syndrome. For those listeners who
are not familiar, can you explain what Usher's is and
how it affects your sight and hearing?
S2 (02:15):
Ashley Syndrome is a deafblind condition. It's a genetic condition,
and I believe it affects about one in 4 or
5 young children with a hearing loss. I was diagnosed
with Usher syndrome at the age of 22, but my
teacher and my parents picked up on my hearing and
my deafness at the age of 5 or 6, and
they never knew the cause of it. And it wasn't
(02:37):
until I was at uni and I was struggling to
see at night. And funny enough, I used to be
an usher for the performing arts and I dreaded people
coming in once the lights went down, you know, for
the ballet and Phantom of the Opera and so on,
I'd have to usher them to their seats with the torch,
and I'd always use the torch for myself. I couldn't
quite figure out why I was struggling. So eventually I
(02:59):
saw an ophthalmologist about at the age of 22, and
he said, Katie, the reason for your hearing loss is
you have this combined genetic condition resulting in deafness and
eyesight loss Usher syndrome. And that was the first time
I ever heard those words. So that's, you know, now
25 years ago.
S1 (03:16):
Wow. So since then, I'm assuming you've learned a lot
more about Usher syndrome, it's causes and how it affects people.
S2 (03:23):
Absolutely. And I think it was the first time I
met somebody with Usher syndrome was probably my mid-thirties When
I work in a pro-bono role for the Australian Deaf
Olympic team as a media officer and one of the
athletes had Usher syndrome. But now and with the advent
of social media, there's a lot more visibility and groups
and there's some fantastic social media groups where the Usher
(03:46):
community is coming together both in Australia and internationally, and
also with that, more research, more awareness and diagnosis at
a much younger age.
S1 (03:55):
You've spoken about difficulties with employers attitudes when looking for employment.
You also stated that you tried to hide your disability.
What can you share with us about your challenges in
job seeking and finding employment?
S2 (04:07):
When I started in the workforce, this was I graduated
from uni in 95, so we're talking 96, 97. I
was very much of the view that I didn't want
employers to notice my hearing loss and that I wore
hearing aids. My eyesight loss wasn't such a problem then
because I do have excellent central vision, just no peripheral.
(04:28):
And I never wanted them to know that I wore
hearing aids because I had this lifelong insecurity from a
little young girl of, you know, the awful connotation of
people with hearing loss are deaf and dumb. And that
reference is so derogatory in many ways. And so I
just didn't want them to view me as any less
capable than the next person going for that job. And
(04:50):
that was probably more driven from me than them. But
I think the difference now is podcasts like this and
the conversations we're having and the visibility of Paralympians, more
organisations are aware of the need to be inclusive and
think about the language that they use, their employment recruitment
process and how they basically include everyone to the table
(05:14):
to have the opportunity to be part of the workforce.
So more and more I think that's less of a concern.
But still a lot of work has to be done
to advocate and raise awareness for people with disabilities so
that they don't feel that they can't contribute and obviously
be part of the workforce.
S1 (05:31):
You brought up that horrific term that they assume people
were deaf and dumb. So what sort of assumptions did
they make about you being a person with a hearing
impairment or a vision impairment?
S2 (05:42):
I guess, you know, the old assumption is not able
to communicate, has low comprehension, isn't able to be involved
in discussions and really not one able to contribute to
day to day conversations and everyday tasks and so on.
I'm very proud to be part of the deaf and
hard of hearing community, and I sit on the board
(06:04):
of Deaf Sports. And on the cooperation of the Australian
Death Games, which is being held next April 22nd in
Newcastle and Lake Macquarie. I've had this wonderful opportunity through
the success of being a Paralympian and the gold medallist
to advocate for people with disabilities, including the vision impaired community,
and I also feel I have a very unique perspective,
(06:25):
someone with two senses loss. You look at me and,
you know, two legs, two arms. I'm not in a
chair like some of my mates are or amputee. And
there's also the need to educate people that someone who
doesn't obviously look perhaps like they might have a physical
challenge or disability, that there might be something else at play.
(06:47):
And just to be considerate of that.
S1 (06:50):
That horrible thing that we've probably all heard, you don't
look disabled.
S2 (06:54):
Yeah, and it's not that I want to look disabled
or any disabled person identifies themselves as disabled. I know
Carly Findlay, for example. I follow her on Twitter and
she's a tremendous advocate. And she she prides herself in
describing it as part of the disability community. And I'm
a disabled woman with her challenges and my foundation support access,
we do use the reference. We provide grants for young
(07:15):
Australians with the disability. But as a person, a young
child growing up in a country town, I didn't see
myself as a disability. I didn't want to be seen
to be different. So I'm not a big fan of
that word and I love the fact that our indigenous
people I have a mentor, Deborah, who said, Katie, we
actually don't have a word for disability in our language,
(07:36):
she said. We refer more to diverse names and I
like that term. I love.
S3 (07:40):
That.
S2 (07:41):
Every term in reference has a purpose and it's been
mindful of how we apply those terms and in what context.
S1 (07:49):
You created the Sports Access Foundation in 2017. Can you
tell us about the foundation, its partners and its goals?
S2 (07:57):
Yes. So winning the gold medal in Rio, like obviously
it was an extraordinary moment, one I'll never forget in
September 2016. And it was in December, I met a
young girl who lost her sight literally within weeks, overnight
due to a very aggressive form of leukaemia. And young
Ruby from Sydney had been following my Paralympic story and
(08:19):
I actually got to meet her. And meeting Ruby reminded
me and you know, it put my challenges and vision
loss in perspective. But she was so excited about holding
that gold medal and she asked me about the guide
and the tether and and here's a young girl that
loved to swim and run and now has vision loss
and he's blind and wants to continue playing sports. So
(08:41):
I got her a tether and I talked to her
dad about some sporting clubs. And after that, I knew
I needed to do more. And there were other motivations
with that lifelong motivations of importance of sport for all
of us to feel included and to belong. And we
all had those tremendous memories as young children playing sports
with our mates like it's the best feeling ever. And
(09:02):
for a child to be left on the sideline and
not to be able to participate because of a disability
or a challenge they have, it's just not right. So
we set up the Sport Access Foundation with the help
of my brothers and friends in January 2017, literally on
a Friday. Bill Moss, former chairman of Macquarie Bank, was
my first donor, so that was enough for us to
set up and to launch our first round of grants
(09:23):
that year.
S1 (09:24):
And so since 2017, do you know how many grants
you've given out since then?
S2 (09:29):
Yeah, absolutely. So we probably awarded over 50 grants. We've
had over 300 young Australians aged 7 to 17 apply
from every state and territory. When I looked at the
list last year, there were over 45 unique disabilities, some
overlapping of our applicants, and that's from a list of
about 110. So we offer grants to help kids aged
(09:52):
7 to 13 to get started just to help them
join the local sporting club, help with paying fees and coaches, etcetera.
And then we have another grant for those that are
sort of more developed and need equipment or other coaching costs, etcetera.
And then we have one those that are on the
pathway to the Paralympics. So they're literally they've represented Australia
(10:13):
and they're at the costs of going into high performance
in that regard. So we try and cater for each
life stage of a young individual through their sporting participation.
S1 (10:23):
You're literally leading kids on the path to the Paralympics.
S2 (10:26):
Well, I think every Aussie able to with a physical
challenge or intellectual, we all probably have those dreams. Wouldn't
it be awesome to represent Australia? I think all of
us have that. You know, some of us have that
amazing opportunity to do that. Not always in sport, in
other fields of course, to go to the highest level.
So we want to ensure young Australians know that they
(10:48):
can aspire for that regardless of what their circumstances are.
And I also bringing to that our young Indigenous Australians.
I mean they really have limited opportunity to play club sport.
I think it's something that Australia in the community we
need to work. Much more in getting indigenous kids involved
in sporting clubs because of the, you know, the challenges
(11:11):
for them with barriers could expense, etcetera. But yes, it's
lovely that a young child who's 6 or 7 and
is awarded a $200 grant, you know, that gives them
a boost and knows that, hey, someone cares and someone
believes that I can be the best version of myself.
And yeah, I could represent Australia in my sport.
S1 (11:29):
I think as a kid, just having someone believe in
you and back you up is so powerful.
S2 (11:34):
Absolutely. What I love about Sport Access Foundation is I
am a bit time poor with it, like none of
us are paid as regards registered charity. So we try
and do what we can around our respective family and
work commitments. But during COVID lockdowns last year, I was
able to set up a Zoom call with recipients to
join in. And they were, you know, James and Leighton
(11:57):
from Dundee, who does book Cheer and Cold Case down
in Victoria, who's a swimmer, and Finn Broadbent, who's a
wheelchair tennis player. And these guys and girls were getting
on the Zoom. And for them to have that community
and be able to talk to each other, it's so wonderful,
isn't it, when you have others around you who just
have an understanding and know what it's like, you know?
(12:17):
And so I'm a big believer in inclusion and integration,
but I also think it's wonderful to have like minded
groups of people and children and teenagers to come together
with the similarities so that they can really help each
other along the way.
S1 (12:33):
So, Katie, in addition to your amazing achievements in athletics,
you've also worked in consumer sports marketing for over 15 years.
Some of those organisations that you've worked with are Australian
Paralympic Committee, NRL, ANZ Stadium and Tabcorp. How have they
been different from other employers?
S2 (12:52):
I guess an organisation and the way they are, it
really comes down from the top up, isn't it, in
terms of what's the value of that organisation, what's it
purpose and what's there? I guess you know those vision
statements that all employees buy into and all decisions in
that organisations are driven by. So for example that Melbourne
(13:14):
Storm was very John Ribot was the founder and people
know him in Rugby league world. He set up Brisbane
Broncos and Melbourne Storm and he asked me to come
and join Melbourne Storm from Sydney and he was wonderful
and you know, I felt equal. John never made me
feel any different and I was the membership manager down
there and the competitive AFL market for rugby league. The
(13:35):
vision statement of the club was relentless pursuit of excellence.
It's a very result driven kind of vision statement. Obviously
there's nothing in there about respecting diversity and inclusion, but
increasingly that sort of language is coming into those vision statements.
An organisation like that, it was about, you know, you
were judged on on merit, on what you contribute, and
(13:58):
it was very much a team culture. And I think
sometimes vision statements don't always have the words, but it's
the actions of people in that organisation and Melbourne Storm,
it was probably the best two years of my life.
But fast forward I worked for the NT Government in
the Department of Sport and Rec on some of their
events and the CEO at the time he called me
(14:18):
into his office. I'd been in that role for about
three months or even less and he said, Katie, I
just wanted to check in how you were going and
was there anything you needed from us? So he didn't
particularly refer to my hearing loss. And my my vision
was becoming apparent by then. He simply asked me, was
there anything else they could do to support me? So
that was the first time a CEO or anyone in
(14:40):
a workplace checked in on me on that level. And
and it was just great because I didn't have to.
I'm very open about talking about my disability now, but
I didn't really have to make a point of it then.
But he made me feel very comfortable at ease and
that it wasn't a problem. It was. It's more about
this is the question we asked everyone and we check in.
(15:00):
But secondly to that, I've just started a role with
BlueScope and I'm working in their social impact and inclusion team.
Obviously BlueScope is, I think it's a $9 billion company,
16,000 employees, 18 global offices. So an organization of that level,
they need to have very clear vision statements and values
around all aspects in equal opportunity, human rights, in diversity
(15:24):
and inclusion and fair work and so on. It's more
than a piece of paper. It has to be embedded
and it has to have very clear principles to guide managers, etcetera,
and how to implement those policies. And also how do
you get all your 16,000 employees on board with those policies?
That's the next challenge.
S1 (15:42):
Absolutely. Absolutely. About having buy in on all levels, not
just on one level that's so incredibly important.
S2 (15:50):
It's making it relevant, too. So you might be somebody
who works, you know, making the steel or the raw products,
or you might be somebody that works in the marketing
and brand team. So employees are coming from very different
angles themselves and different life experience. The. To is language
that's relevant, that employees have contributed to that conversation and
that there's some really good communication tools to continually bring
(16:13):
those discussions to the table in a way that's relevant
around the watercooler, you know, talking about equal opportunities and
gender equality and that sort of thing.
S1 (16:22):
Yeah. And these are conversations that unfortunately haven't really been had,
you know, in the earlier years. They just weren't discussed.
So sometimes there can be a bit of discomfort in
terms of having those conversations. What advice would you give
to employers or companies about starting that conversation about inclusivity?
S2 (16:41):
The thing is the way forward in terms of sustainability
and the organizations that will thrive in this modern time
are those that embrace those social, environmental and ethical issues.
Employees and human rights in general were very intelligent, capable
and largely empathetic. And we are all touched by issues
(17:04):
around gender and human rights and disability and so on.
So everyone has a touch point to some of those
major social issues. And the appetite and the expectation of
Australians within the workforce is that they look to their
employers to lead and they're inspired when their employers are
(17:25):
perhaps making news because they've innovated with an environmentally friendly
new product or service, or they're brought in a more
accessible type of technology or communication tools that the vision
impaired community can access. Those things are real. I haven't
I don't know the statistics, but I know I have
heard of there's a point where we were motivated by
(17:46):
our salary and income, but there's a point there where
it's more about my values and how does it sit
within this organization and how is my organization leading in
terms of being an ethical, responsible organization that's caring for
the environment, caring for the community and investing in the future?
S1 (18:07):
Some people with disabilities or particular genders or indigenous people
really have problems in terms of even accessing what type
of jobs are out there or physically accessing jobs that
are posted. What advice would you give to employers about
making the recruitment and hiring process more accessible?
S2 (18:26):
You look within the HR, you look at the recruitment
policies and how it's done and really having a closer
look at that and saying, are we this particular role?
It might be an admin role, it might be an apprenticeship,
it could be a delivery person. It's like, who could
apply for this job and what communities are we missing
out on here? What individuals might not be able to apply?
(18:49):
And I'm hearing of organizations almost doing an audit of
their roles to assess how accessible is this role to
different types of people. So for a working mum, is
it flexible? There's a lot of roles we know that
have been traditionally white male, 9 to 5, perhaps partner
and children at home, etcetera. And we know that is
completely shifted and is not the common reality for everyone.
(19:13):
So it would be a, you know, an obligation of
organizations that they are considering in their recruitment process. Have
we provide this job description online with somebody signing it or,
you know, a data transcription or other means that people
might need to communicate. And likewise, a person applies for
(19:34):
a role that the language around that description is also
very inclusive. It makes a statement. We we welcome people
of diverse backgrounds. We encourage you to let us know
if there's anything else you need from us in terms
of applying for this role in terms of either material
or access to come to the interview, etcetera. And it's
just been very open and forthcoming about that. That only
(19:57):
comes when the organization has clear sort of goals, objectives
that we want to be inclusive, we want to be
diverse and we want to open our roles up to
the full community as much as possible. And then you go, Well,
how are we going to do that? And some of
those examples, I just gave you a very simplified, practical
examples of how that could be done.
S1 (20:18):
So you've inspired a generation of children with disabilities to
engage in every aspect of life. Most importantly, you've been
focused on sports. What advice would you give to the
next generation of job seekers?
S2 (20:31):
I guess and this is whatever your situation is. I
was talking to a University of Newcastle sport management students
on Zoom last week and I was asked a similar
question and I said very much that is making yourself
available from the start. Obviously your community projects that align
(20:52):
to your interests. So when I was studying at uni,
I did a camp instructor with the New South Wales
Department Sport and Rec. It wasn't a paid role. It
was volunteer to go on holiday camps with young kids.
So you did the whole offering of sport and recreation
during the summer holidays. I had another role on the
My local Councils access committee, which was about a group
(21:13):
of people with disabilities coming together and advising the council
on where investment needed to be made to make the
community more inclusive for people with diverse needs. And so
I was always seeking out those sorts of opportunities to
get exposure and to meet people and real life examples.
And none of that was sort of pay. My pay
job was, you know, KFC and Kmart. So I certainly
(21:36):
encourage anyone, whatever their situation. Young people to do that
sort of thing and then get people with disabilities is,
you know, your story and the challenges you've overcome. And
I see this in the young Australians who apply for
our grants. Your qualities are you've worked hard, you've had
to adjust and modify. You constantly do that every day. Resilience,
(22:00):
You eat it for breakfast. You know, you've got a
lot of grit and these qualities employers love. And we
know that people with disabilities is a lower churn rate.
They tend to stay in a role longer than people
without disability. And not to say people without disability don't
have these qualities, but they're the strengths. When you've overcome
some challenges that mean you have to continue to adapt
(22:22):
and modify to the world around you. There's some great
tools that you develop over your lifetime and that you
can bring to your role. So have confidence in that.
S1 (22:31):
Speaking of grit and confidence and all those wonderful things,
you've demonstrated, such perseverance and determination to reach your goals.
What's next for you?
S2 (22:41):
Oh, I'm so excited. Mean being a high performance triathlete.
I got in the program in 2015 and it was
by way of losing my sight. I was told I
was legally blind and I rang triathlon. Australia wanted to
do the Hawaii Ironman and they said, Katie, we're looking
for vision impaired athletes for Rio in eight months time.
So it was something I never planned for, had expected.
(23:02):
You know, I did everything the wrong way around. Belinda
I started high performance career in triathlon at 39, so
fast forward six and a half, seven years. I can
tell you I'm very grateful that it's come to an end.
The hard training days that were intense. And now that
I'm out of it, I look at it and go, Wow,
how did I do it? Like, I really had the
blinkers on. It was just all consuming the two races
(23:24):
Rio and 16 and Tokyo 21. I put a lot
of things on hold, including studying and other career aspirations.
So I'm really excited. I've just been accepted into executive
MBA course. That just started my job with BlueScope and
there's some other projects underway, so it's just great. I
feel very happy and also very thankful. Paratriathlon high performance
(23:47):
has given me a lot of new opportunities, particularly a
platform to work in the diversity and inclusion and advocacy space.
S1 (23:55):
I can't wait to see what you do in that space.
I'm so excited to hear how you're going to be
just changing the world.
S2 (24:03):
I don't know about changing the world, but I love
something that Oprah said she talks about. We've all got
our own platform and she talks about her local butcher
and she said he's so passionate about his meats. And
we just Oprah, you know, this meat, he's got this
in it. And and she said that's his platform. He
wants to share and educate people about good meats and
where they come from and how it can be sustainable.
(24:25):
And I love that. I think, you know, the work
that you're doing in Australia. Peter Greco A talking vision.
People like that inspire me because it continually doing their
work and doing it, you know, a full potential. And
so I guess from my perspective is, yeah, I've got
some wonderful opportunity to really want to try and do
(24:45):
the best I can with those.
S1 (24:47):
Well, just to finish off, you've mentioned because I did
a little bit of stalking that your favourite quote is
We are just Travellers here by Mary MacKillop. So what
does that mean to you?
S2 (24:59):
Well, it's a reminder of we're all passing through, right?
And I think it's a lot of, a lot in
there about humility. Also those that have been here before us.
And I think about, for example, the Paralympic movement, what
a wonderful movement. And there I was a part of
two Paralympic teams. But I think about the original members
(25:19):
of that Paralympic team back in 1960. And Daphne, her
surname was just lost me and she was a mum
in a wheelchair and I can't imagine what it would
have been like in the 1950s and 60 to have
that condition or challenge. And so those things really sit
strongly with me as a reminder of those that have
been before us. We're passing through and what are we
(25:43):
doing here? Obviously, to contribute and lay some good foundation
for our future.
S1 (25:49):
That was Katie Kelly, two time para triathlete and ambassador
and advocate. Thank you so much for joining us on
the career path. The conversation doesn't have to stop here.
S4 (26:03):
She.
S1 (26:04):
Share this podcast episode on social media and start a
conversation with your friends, family and followers, or tell us
what's on your mind. You can provide feedback through the
email Career podcast at Vision Australia. Org The Career Path
Podcast series is available to download via our website. Just
go to Vision Australia org and type the career path
(26:25):
into the search field to find our webpage where you
can listen to other episodes benefit from a range of
resources and subscribe to ensure you don't miss any episodes
or find us on your favourite podcast platform. Remember to
follow us on Facebook and Twitter for updates and bonus content,
Facebook.com slash Radio network and Twitter.com, MVA Radio Network. Thanks
(26:49):
for traveling with us along the career path.
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