May 19, 2022 • 21 mins
The Notorious Nas: Interviewing the Interviewer.
Nas Campanella is famous for her work on the radio and also as ABC’s disability affairs reporter. This time, we turn the table and interview Nas about her work, the importance of technology, and the lessons she has learned along the way.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to the Career Path. A recent report
from Sweeney and Vision Australia revealed that 83% of employers
surveyed lacked confidence in hiring someone with a vision impairment.
With this podcast, we hope to delve further into this
issue by speaking to job seekers, employers and employees to
hear their perspectives. Each episode will be available to download
(00:39):
as a podcast. Just go to Vision Austria org and
type the career path into the search engine to find
our webpage where you can listen to other episodes and
subscribe to make sure that you don't miss any. I'm
your host Belinda Wilson. Today will be speaking with Campanella,
ABC's disability affairs reporter. Thank you so much for joining me.
S2 (01:01):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (01:03):
In addition to reporting on disability affairs, you also have
lived experience as a person who is blind. I can
imagine job seeking must have been really difficult for you.
What type of barriers and discrimination have you faced in
regards to employment? Look, I.
S3 (01:18):
Faced quite a lot of discrimination and in particular when
it came to employment. So when I think back to
my university days, I spent four years studying and in
that time I also did unpaid internships and there was
never a problem getting internships. I think it's safe to
say that lots of people are prepared to give you
work for free and see it as an opportunity, but
(01:39):
you know, with no great investment on their part. So
by the time I'd finished university, I was really looking
forward to looking for paid work. But that was when
I sort of encountered really hostile receptions from people. So
I decided never to disclose my disability in a job application.
I wanted to be judged on merit based on the
skills I had and the CV. And, you know, I
(02:01):
had a really long portfolio of work that I'd had
published throughout all the internships and also references that were
willing to vouch for my work, my work ethic and
me as a person. So I felt really confident about
being judged based on that and didn't see a need
to disclose my disability. It didn't matter whether I had
one or not, whether I could do the job. It
(02:21):
wasn't dependent on that. But often I would walk into
the interview room and that was the first time anyone
would know that I had disability because they'd see me
with my white cane and you could feel the temperature drop.
You could definitely feel tension in the room and people
ask some pretty awful questions like, How the hell can
you be a journalist when you can't see and you know,
(02:43):
even comments that they didn't have a safe enough workplace
for me. And it was pretty heartbreaking. And the search was,
you know, several months, which pales in comparison to what
other people who have vision impaired experience. But it's still
one that was really heartbreaking and disappointing and really didn't
get resolved until I got the job at the ABC.
S1 (03:01):
You've now been working with the ABC in a variety
of roles for over ten years. What made them so
different from those other employers?
S3 (03:09):
I think what made the ABC stand out from the
rest was that they asked two types of questions. First,
all the questions that I felt they would ask any
other candidate. So whether it be, you know, tell us
about your story, Pitch us some ideas for stories that
you'd like to write. Who are you as a person?
What would you change about journalism? All those sorts of things.
And then on top of that, there were questions around
(03:31):
what do you need to do your job? And I
think that showed me that that was the place I
wanted to be at because they were open minded and
all of a sudden they were really keen and interested
to talk about, well, what equipment do you need? What
training do you need? Do you have someone who comes
to show you around the office? And they never pretended
that they had all the answers. And I think that's
also what was great about it because I felt like
(03:54):
they were really trying to listen and learn and being
very respectful, but also acknowledging that they would need some
assistance and that it would be a very collaborative process.
S1 (04:03):
Yeah, it sounds like they worked with you rather than
made assumptions about you.
S3 (04:08):
They definitely did. And I think when I finally got
the job, which there was quite an intense process to
go through, there was a voice in camera test and
exam and you know, the interview with a panel of
five people. And when I got the call to say
that I'd gotten the job, I was thrilled. And I
think what was important was they said that we don't
(04:30):
know how it's quite going to work, but we're going
to get you all the bits of equipment that you've
said that you need and we'll just trial and error
and do different things and see what works and stick
with what ends up being right for you so that
you can do your job like everyone else. And I
think that's that's what really was so different about the ABC.
S1 (04:48):
Just out of curiosity, what exam did you have to take?
S3 (04:51):
It was a general news knowledge exam, so everyone has
to sit it. Well, they used to. I don't quite
know what happens now, but you'd get a bunch of
questions that kind of traversed anything and everything from finance
to politics to sport to arts and culture. Because as
a journalist, you cover a thousand different things all the time.
No day's ever the same. And you sort of need
to be well versed in lots of different things. Unless,
(05:14):
of course, you are what we call a rounds reporter,
where you might cover science or education or disability, where
you have then an in-depth knowledge of one particular topic.
But when you first start out in journalism, you've got
to know a lot about a lot of things.
S1 (05:27):
That's so interesting. I've heard of personality and psychometric testing,
but yeah, you probably do have to know what you're
talking about. That's that's probably a really good point. Yeah.
S3 (05:36):
Yeah, it was. It was a good thing to do. And,
you know, anyone who's going into journalism, you would expect
to be a bit of a news junkie and know,
you know, be well-read and all that kind of things.
So it was it was nothing to to kind of
study for it because it was just anything and everything
about the world around us.
S1 (05:52):
Has anything surprised or maybe even shocked you working as
a disability affairs reporter that you hadn't been aware of before?
I think one.
S3 (06:00):
Of the most exciting things about my role as the
disability affairs reporter is that once my role was announced
and I started sort of working in it, I was
inundated with emails from people either wanting to pitch a
story idea, someone who wanted to write a personal story
of their own. And I realized that, you know, I
(06:23):
came up with the idea of this this Disability affairs
round and pitched it to the ABC and of course
they committed to it straight away, which was amazing. I
pitched the idea because I knew that we needed to
change the way that disability was portrayed and we needed
to put people with disabilities voices front and center. And
I knew that people in the community wanted that. But
(06:44):
guess I underestimated how much they wanted it until I
got in the role and was absolutely inundated with emails
and calls and things. And I think while it didn't
surprise me, it excited me. And it's really made me
think about all the different voices that we can put
on there, whether it be people who are non-verbal or
non-speaking and people who use Auslan and putting different faces
(07:08):
and voices and all those kinds of things out there.
And I think that's been really exciting. And also just,
I guess something that definitely didn't surprise me because I
knew that this stuff was happening. But the Disability Royal Commission,
which is, you know, the main game of my round
and something I've covered regularly, the stories have just been
horrendous and I knew a lot of this stuff existed
(07:29):
and was was out there and happening. But it's a
huge responsibility to put that out there for the entire
community to listen and learn about and take that very seriously.
But it's always shocking to hear how prevalent or how
bad some of that abuse and violence is. So, yeah,
those are some of the things that sort of occupy
my mind a lot of the time.
S1 (07:50):
That sounds like a very difficult thing to do, but
it's so needed to hear and bring light to these stories. Yeah, it.
S3 (07:58):
Is. The community itself fought for the Disability Royal Commission.
It was disabled people who wanted that royal commission and
it's one that a lot of people are pinning their
hopes on transformation and change for the long term. So
it is a big responsibility to cover it, no matter
how hard it is. And they take that responsibility very seriously.
S1 (08:18):
In a recent study by E! Sweeney and Vision Australia,
it was found that only 30% of employers surveyed would
adapt job requirements to suit a person who is qualified
for the role but had a vision impairment. What adjustments
and technologies did you use to perform your job?
S3 (08:34):
So I use several bits of technology. The first and
most prominent is Jaws, the screen reading software, which is
on a laptop and a desktop computer. I take the
laptop either if I'm working from home or in the
studio recording things when I'm out on the road. And
then the desktop is obviously on a permanent sort of
desk that is that is mine in the office. And
(08:54):
so that's the most prominent thing. I also have lots
of tactile buttons in lots of the studios so that
I can go in there and I know how to
use all the buttons. And I've also had an instructor
show me around the office so I can get around independently.
I work with a producer now that I'm in television
and me and the camera crews and my producer have
(09:17):
worked out some sort of nifty ways to make sure
that I know where the camera is. And I sort
of know where to look, so to speak, and all
of that kind of thing. And, you know, it's an
evolving process. I think as jobs change and as requirements
change and and as I change as well, you know,
you start out needing certain things, but then you might
kind of shed them as time goes on because you
(09:39):
might increase your skill set and things like that.
S1 (09:41):
And technology might change as well.
S3 (09:43):
Yeah, look, that's a really good point. Technology has changed
and it really has transformed how I do my work.
So once I used to take a laptop out and,
you know, find myself in gutters, outside courts, you know,
crouching and writing stories and, you know, recording them down
the phone line over an old school phone call. And
now I don't need to necessarily take my laptop out.
(10:06):
I record interviews and all kinds of voice reports and
things using my iPhone. And you can edit on there.
You can email it back to. Studio directly. There's no
clunky old scratchy phone lines or anything like that. And
you know what we've seen during COVID, thanks to everyone
kind of changing tact and using technology and working from home.
(10:28):
I've interviewed ministers from my spare room and, you know,
my husband, for example, is also a presenter at the
ABC and he's done his show from here. And I've
done radio current affairs packages from here. So technology really
has changed. And for me it's meant a transformation in
the way I work, which is so positive. So I
can't even imagine what would happen in the future.
S1 (10:47):
I just think that the way smartphones are being used
right now, you're right, they've absolutely changed everything from being
able to navigate with them to using them for adaptive
technology to even having a Zoom meeting on them. These things,
even five, ten years ago, were impossible. It's just it's
so incredible to hear how these changes can change and
(11:08):
shape someone's career. Yeah. And I think.
S3 (11:10):
They'll only improve as things go on and they'll be
so much easier for other people. I mean, I, in
a sense, had to kind of work with some very
clever technical operators at the ABC to pioneer things like
how to news read when you are blind And all
of that technology is now in place for other people
who come behind me. But also, you know, mainstream tech
(11:31):
companies are now making sure that they have accessibility software
inbuilt into their mainstream products, which they sell, you know,
at your local department stores. And I think that's what's
really great about this, that you may or may not
have a vision impairment, but you might scroll through your
iPhone and see the accessibility features and wonder what that
(11:51):
is and how it works and who it's for. And
it really starts a great conversation around the wider issue
of inclusivity and accessibility. But then it also means that
someone like me with vision impairment can go out, can
buy a regular phone like everyone else, and be a
part of the tech site and still have the features
I need to navigate it in the unique way that
(12:11):
I do.
S1 (12:11):
That's such a great point. And I think that as
technology evolves and gets even better, you're right. It's just
absolutely incredible what they've done with that. So talking about inclusivity,
what could employers and workplaces do to better promote inclusion
and diversity?
S3 (12:27):
I think there are a few things that employers can do,
and the first is actively seek out. People with disabilities
show that you are an organisation that is not only
open to but actively embracing people with disability. And that
could be anything and everything from going out and actually
connecting with advocacy organizations and employment organizations and saying, we've
(12:49):
got a bunch of roles that may appeal to someone
or reaching out and saying we want to, but we
don't know how. Ensuring that you introduce disability awareness training
and make it compulsory for all staff to undertake because
your workplace needs to be one that is well versed
in disability. Also, just making sure that you have people
with disability visible in your organisation so that other staff
(13:11):
members can see it as completely normal and commonplace. And
it's not this tick box exercise ensuring that you have
the right policies and procedures. So anything and everything from
a reasonable adjustments policy, checking in with people to make
sure you know what they need to do their job,
that they have access to that. And of course that
changes over time, particularly if a condition is degenerative or
(13:34):
things like that. So making sure that you have those
regular conversations with people and also having things like a
disability action plan and have really concrete strategies and think
most importantly, not pretending that you know how it's done
and just knowing that you can reach out for support
and talk to your employees with disability because they will
(13:56):
have the answers that you need to really transform your organisation.
And finally, it's really to make sure that you understand
the importance of diversity as a whole in the workplace,
whether it be taking on board employees who are First
Nations people or from the LGBTQI community, or people with disability,
understanding that how much that contributes to your workplace, both economically,
(14:20):
socially and ultimately for the greater good of your business
and the people that you serve, you can tap into
new markets, you'll have new ideas, you'll have a greater
wealth of knowledge across a broader cross-section of communities and
therefore better services and products.
S1 (14:40):
That is an amazing way to put it. Do you
think that sometimes employers are afraid to ask those questions
because they're afraid of offending or being called prejudiced?
S3 (14:50):
I do think lots of people are still afraid and
this definitely comes back down to people not working with
or not knowing or being introduced to people with disability.
And I think a lot of that is because for
too long society has kept people with disability away, kept
them hidden. They haven't been on screens, they haven't been
on the front of your newspaper or your glossy magazine.
(15:10):
We haven't been seen on the catwalk. Apart from the Paralympics,
it was very much not seen in the mainstream. Now,
of course we have things like the NDIS, which mean
that people can go out with support workers, they can
participate in the community more than ever before. So there's
a visible presence in the community but also in some
(15:31):
ways is brought out, dare I say it, some positives,
you know, making sure that people can have access to
events online that they might not have been able to
physically access before, or ensuring that people gain employment because
they can work from home so they don't have to
do the commute. They can be in their own sort
of space and look after themselves at the same time.
(15:54):
So those sorts of things I think are quite important
as well. But I think ultimately people are afraid and
I think the more we make disability visible and normal
and exciting and the more we have lots of high
profile people like Dinesh Aparna doing All Caught and Carly
Finlay and a bunch of those people, whether it be
on social media or the Paralympics or, you know, whatever
(16:16):
it is in medicine, then I think as we talk
more about that and see more about those people, that
will change and think to know that it's okay that
you you probably will get things wrong in the first instance,
but so long as you are listening, learning and being respectful,
I think that's the most important thing.
S1 (16:34):
I think that's something that we really haven't thought about before.
Inclusivity is visibility. It's seeing people like you out there
that represent people with a disability, that represent people with
vision impairments out in the community and seeing what is possible.
S3 (16:49):
Yeah, it definitely is. And I think the more we
see that, the better we will grow and develop as
a society. And you know, let's think about it. 4.4
million Australians live with disability. If you're ignoring those 4.4 million,
that's 20% of the population. It's a huge number. We're
out there, always have been, always will be. So make
(17:11):
things accessible and let's all work together.
S4 (17:13):
There are many.
S1 (17:14):
People in the audience and also in the studio who
see you as a huge inspiration. What would you say
to the next generation of job seekers who want to
pursue a role in communications?
S3 (17:26):
I love it. No day is ever the same. I
thrive off the education that I personally get from being
in journalism. I might be one person in a very
big community of very diverse people with disability, but I
never pretend that I know everything about disability. Even in
(17:46):
this round. This is around where I am constantly learning
as the disability Affairs reporter. And I love that while
I'm learning, I'm teaching both people in my own community,
but also the non-disabled community about our issues and our
people and the things that affect us. So I'd say
that knowing that in a role that journalism plays now
more than ever before, you are providing information and education
(18:11):
and those things are pretty important because people make decisions
based on things they read and learn about and they
develop as people. I think knowing that I contribute to
that is really important. And I'd say that as a
vision impaired person. I mean, the stats unfortunately speak for themselves.
We've made a bit of progress, but it's been incredibly
(18:32):
slow in the area of employment. It is definitely the
one topic that I get the most emails about, so
it's clearly still a huge problem and I think we
still have a long way to go in this space.
But if people can think about what they want to do,
work really hard, nothing will get handed to you on
a silver platter or fall in your lap, and nor
(18:52):
should it for anybody. So acknowledge that you need to
work really hard, acknowledge that you will have some bumps
along the way and wish you all the very best.
S1 (19:04):
So Nazz, what's next for you?
S3 (19:06):
Lots of people ask me this and you know, I'm
only 18 months into this disability affairs round. This is
something I wanted to do for a long time and
18 months is not a long time to be in
the round and I feel like I've only just started
to get a grasp of how to do television after,
you know, nine years of radio. And moving into this
whole new space has just been magic. And I've learnt
(19:29):
so much in the last 18 months that I'm not
really ready to think much beyond that at the moment
because this round is so all consuming and, you know,
fairly exhausting, but also just such a huge passion of mine.
So I'm going to be sticking with this for a
little while longer, but obviously some of the longer term,
you know, I'd love to write a book about some
(19:50):
of the things I've learnt along the way as a
person with disability and do a lot more work in
disability awareness, training and recruitment, kind of work down the
track and continue obviously my speaking and my emceeing, which
I do quite a lot with schools and corporates and
also not for profit organisations. So there's a lot there,
but I'm very happy at the moment with the way
(20:11):
things are.
S1 (20:11):
Well, if you do write a book. I think there
are plenty of us who would love to hear about
your life story and your thoughts. Thank you so much
for your time. You are just such an inspiration and
just a wonderful person to speak with.
S5 (20:24):
Oh, thanks, Belinda. Thanks for thinking of me and for
the kind words.
S3 (20:27):
And yeah, really happy to do it.
S1 (20:29):
That was Nance Campanella, disability affairs reporter for the ABC.
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(20:49):
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with us along the career path.
Hello and welcome to the Career Path. A recent report
from Sweeney and Vision Australia revealed that 83% of employers
surveyed lacked confidence in hiring someone with a vision impairment.
With this podcast, we hope to delve further into this
issue by speaking to job seekers, employers and employees to
hear their perspectives. Each episode will be available to download
(00:39):
as a podcast. Just go to Vision Austria org and
type the career path into the search engine to find
our webpage where you can listen to other episodes and
subscribe to make sure that you don't miss any. I'm
your host Belinda Wilson. Today will be speaking with Campanella,
ABC's disability affairs reporter. Thank you so much for joining me.
S2 (01:01):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (01:03):
In addition to reporting on disability affairs, you also have
lived experience as a person who is blind. I can
imagine job seeking must have been really difficult for you.
What type of barriers and discrimination have you faced in
regards to employment? Look, I.
S3 (01:18):
Faced quite a lot of discrimination and in particular when
it came to employment. So when I think back to
my university days, I spent four years studying and in
that time I also did unpaid internships and there was
never a problem getting internships. I think it's safe to
say that lots of people are prepared to give you
work for free and see it as an opportunity, but
(01:39):
you know, with no great investment on their part. So
by the time I'd finished university, I was really looking
forward to looking for paid work. But that was when
I sort of encountered really hostile receptions from people. So
I decided never to disclose my disability in a job application.
I wanted to be judged on merit based on the
skills I had and the CV. And, you know, I
(02:01):
had a really long portfolio of work that I'd had
published throughout all the internships and also references that were
willing to vouch for my work, my work ethic and
me as a person. So I felt really confident about
being judged based on that and didn't see a need
to disclose my disability. It didn't matter whether I had
one or not, whether I could do the job. It
(02:21):
wasn't dependent on that. But often I would walk into
the interview room and that was the first time anyone
would know that I had disability because they'd see me
with my white cane and you could feel the temperature drop.
You could definitely feel tension in the room and people
ask some pretty awful questions like, How the hell can
you be a journalist when you can't see and you know,
(02:43):
even comments that they didn't have a safe enough workplace
for me. And it was pretty heartbreaking. And the search was,
you know, several months, which pales in comparison to what
other people who have vision impaired experience. But it's still
one that was really heartbreaking and disappointing and really didn't
get resolved until I got the job at the ABC.
S1 (03:01):
You've now been working with the ABC in a variety
of roles for over ten years. What made them so
different from those other employers?
S3 (03:09):
I think what made the ABC stand out from the
rest was that they asked two types of questions. First,
all the questions that I felt they would ask any
other candidate. So whether it be, you know, tell us
about your story, Pitch us some ideas for stories that
you'd like to write. Who are you as a person?
What would you change about journalism? All those sorts of things.
And then on top of that, there were questions around
(03:31):
what do you need to do your job? And I
think that showed me that that was the place I
wanted to be at because they were open minded and
all of a sudden they were really keen and interested
to talk about, well, what equipment do you need? What
training do you need? Do you have someone who comes
to show you around the office? And they never pretended
that they had all the answers. And I think that's
also what was great about it because I felt like
(03:54):
they were really trying to listen and learn and being
very respectful, but also acknowledging that they would need some
assistance and that it would be a very collaborative process.
S1 (04:03):
Yeah, it sounds like they worked with you rather than
made assumptions about you.
S3 (04:08):
They definitely did. And I think when I finally got
the job, which there was quite an intense process to
go through, there was a voice in camera test and
exam and you know, the interview with a panel of
five people. And when I got the call to say
that I'd gotten the job, I was thrilled. And I
think what was important was they said that we don't
(04:30):
know how it's quite going to work, but we're going
to get you all the bits of equipment that you've
said that you need and we'll just trial and error
and do different things and see what works and stick
with what ends up being right for you so that
you can do your job like everyone else. And I
think that's that's what really was so different about the ABC.
S1 (04:48):
Just out of curiosity, what exam did you have to take?
S3 (04:51):
It was a general news knowledge exam, so everyone has
to sit it. Well, they used to. I don't quite
know what happens now, but you'd get a bunch of
questions that kind of traversed anything and everything from finance
to politics to sport to arts and culture. Because as
a journalist, you cover a thousand different things all the time.
No day's ever the same. And you sort of need
to be well versed in lots of different things. Unless,
(05:14):
of course, you are what we call a rounds reporter,
where you might cover science or education or disability, where
you have then an in-depth knowledge of one particular topic.
But when you first start out in journalism, you've got
to know a lot about a lot of things.
S1 (05:27):
That's so interesting. I've heard of personality and psychometric testing,
but yeah, you probably do have to know what you're
talking about. That's that's probably a really good point. Yeah.
S3 (05:36):
Yeah, it was. It was a good thing to do. And,
you know, anyone who's going into journalism, you would expect
to be a bit of a news junkie and know,
you know, be well-read and all that kind of things.
So it was it was nothing to to kind of
study for it because it was just anything and everything
about the world around us.
S1 (05:52):
Has anything surprised or maybe even shocked you working as
a disability affairs reporter that you hadn't been aware of before?
I think one.
S3 (06:00):
Of the most exciting things about my role as the
disability affairs reporter is that once my role was announced
and I started sort of working in it, I was
inundated with emails from people either wanting to pitch a
story idea, someone who wanted to write a personal story
of their own. And I realized that, you know, I
(06:23):
came up with the idea of this this Disability affairs
round and pitched it to the ABC and of course
they committed to it straight away, which was amazing. I
pitched the idea because I knew that we needed to
change the way that disability was portrayed and we needed
to put people with disabilities voices front and center. And
I knew that people in the community wanted that. But
(06:44):
guess I underestimated how much they wanted it until I
got in the role and was absolutely inundated with emails
and calls and things. And I think while it didn't
surprise me, it excited me. And it's really made me
think about all the different voices that we can put
on there, whether it be people who are non-verbal or
non-speaking and people who use Auslan and putting different faces
(07:08):
and voices and all those kinds of things out there.
And I think that's been really exciting. And also just,
I guess something that definitely didn't surprise me because I
knew that this stuff was happening. But the Disability Royal Commission,
which is, you know, the main game of my round
and something I've covered regularly, the stories have just been
horrendous and I knew a lot of this stuff existed
(07:29):
and was was out there and happening. But it's a
huge responsibility to put that out there for the entire
community to listen and learn about and take that very seriously.
But it's always shocking to hear how prevalent or how
bad some of that abuse and violence is. So, yeah,
those are some of the things that sort of occupy
my mind a lot of the time.
S1 (07:50):
That sounds like a very difficult thing to do, but
it's so needed to hear and bring light to these stories. Yeah, it.
S3 (07:58):
Is. The community itself fought for the Disability Royal Commission.
It was disabled people who wanted that royal commission and
it's one that a lot of people are pinning their
hopes on transformation and change for the long term. So
it is a big responsibility to cover it, no matter
how hard it is. And they take that responsibility very seriously.
S1 (08:18):
In a recent study by E! Sweeney and Vision Australia,
it was found that only 30% of employers surveyed would
adapt job requirements to suit a person who is qualified
for the role but had a vision impairment. What adjustments
and technologies did you use to perform your job?
S3 (08:34):
So I use several bits of technology. The first and
most prominent is Jaws, the screen reading software, which is
on a laptop and a desktop computer. I take the
laptop either if I'm working from home or in the
studio recording things when I'm out on the road. And
then the desktop is obviously on a permanent sort of
desk that is that is mine in the office. And
(08:54):
so that's the most prominent thing. I also have lots
of tactile buttons in lots of the studios so that
I can go in there and I know how to
use all the buttons. And I've also had an instructor
show me around the office so I can get around independently.
I work with a producer now that I'm in television
and me and the camera crews and my producer have
(09:17):
worked out some sort of nifty ways to make sure
that I know where the camera is. And I sort
of know where to look, so to speak, and all
of that kind of thing. And, you know, it's an
evolving process. I think as jobs change and as requirements
change and and as I change as well, you know,
you start out needing certain things, but then you might
kind of shed them as time goes on because you
(09:39):
might increase your skill set and things like that.
S1 (09:41):
And technology might change as well.
S3 (09:43):
Yeah, look, that's a really good point. Technology has changed
and it really has transformed how I do my work.
So once I used to take a laptop out and,
you know, find myself in gutters, outside courts, you know,
crouching and writing stories and, you know, recording them down
the phone line over an old school phone call. And
now I don't need to necessarily take my laptop out.
(10:06):
I record interviews and all kinds of voice reports and
things using my iPhone. And you can edit on there.
You can email it back to. Studio directly. There's no
clunky old scratchy phone lines or anything like that. And
you know what we've seen during COVID, thanks to everyone
kind of changing tact and using technology and working from home.
(10:28):
I've interviewed ministers from my spare room and, you know,
my husband, for example, is also a presenter at the
ABC and he's done his show from here. And I've
done radio current affairs packages from here. So technology really
has changed. And for me it's meant a transformation in
the way I work, which is so positive. So I
can't even imagine what would happen in the future.
S1 (10:47):
I just think that the way smartphones are being used
right now, you're right, they've absolutely changed everything from being
able to navigate with them to using them for adaptive
technology to even having a Zoom meeting on them. These things,
even five, ten years ago, were impossible. It's just it's
so incredible to hear how these changes can change and
(11:08):
shape someone's career. Yeah. And I think.
S3 (11:10):
They'll only improve as things go on and they'll be
so much easier for other people. I mean, I, in
a sense, had to kind of work with some very
clever technical operators at the ABC to pioneer things like
how to news read when you are blind And all
of that technology is now in place for other people
who come behind me. But also, you know, mainstream tech
(11:31):
companies are now making sure that they have accessibility software
inbuilt into their mainstream products, which they sell, you know,
at your local department stores. And I think that's what's
really great about this, that you may or may not
have a vision impairment, but you might scroll through your
iPhone and see the accessibility features and wonder what that
(11:51):
is and how it works and who it's for. And
it really starts a great conversation around the wider issue
of inclusivity and accessibility. But then it also means that
someone like me with vision impairment can go out, can
buy a regular phone like everyone else, and be a
part of the tech site and still have the features
I need to navigate it in the unique way that
(12:11):
I do.
S1 (12:11):
That's such a great point. And I think that as
technology evolves and gets even better, you're right. It's just
absolutely incredible what they've done with that. So talking about inclusivity,
what could employers and workplaces do to better promote inclusion
and diversity?
S3 (12:27):
I think there are a few things that employers can do,
and the first is actively seek out. People with disabilities
show that you are an organisation that is not only
open to but actively embracing people with disability. And that
could be anything and everything from going out and actually
connecting with advocacy organizations and employment organizations and saying, we've
(12:49):
got a bunch of roles that may appeal to someone
or reaching out and saying we want to, but we
don't know how. Ensuring that you introduce disability awareness training
and make it compulsory for all staff to undertake because
your workplace needs to be one that is well versed
in disability. Also, just making sure that you have people
with disability visible in your organisation so that other staff
(13:11):
members can see it as completely normal and commonplace. And
it's not this tick box exercise ensuring that you have
the right policies and procedures. So anything and everything from
a reasonable adjustments policy, checking in with people to make
sure you know what they need to do their job,
that they have access to that. And of course that
changes over time, particularly if a condition is degenerative or
(13:34):
things like that. So making sure that you have those
regular conversations with people and also having things like a
disability action plan and have really concrete strategies and think
most importantly, not pretending that you know how it's done
and just knowing that you can reach out for support
and talk to your employees with disability because they will
(13:56):
have the answers that you need to really transform your organisation.
And finally, it's really to make sure that you understand
the importance of diversity as a whole in the workplace,
whether it be taking on board employees who are First
Nations people or from the LGBTQI community, or people with disability,
understanding that how much that contributes to your workplace, both economically,
(14:20):
socially and ultimately for the greater good of your business
and the people that you serve, you can tap into
new markets, you'll have new ideas, you'll have a greater
wealth of knowledge across a broader cross-section of communities and
therefore better services and products.
S1 (14:40):
That is an amazing way to put it. Do you
think that sometimes employers are afraid to ask those questions
because they're afraid of offending or being called prejudiced?
S3 (14:50):
I do think lots of people are still afraid and
this definitely comes back down to people not working with
or not knowing or being introduced to people with disability.
And I think a lot of that is because for
too long society has kept people with disability away, kept
them hidden. They haven't been on screens, they haven't been
on the front of your newspaper or your glossy magazine.
(15:10):
We haven't been seen on the catwalk. Apart from the Paralympics,
it was very much not seen in the mainstream. Now,
of course we have things like the NDIS, which mean
that people can go out with support workers, they can
participate in the community more than ever before. So there's
a visible presence in the community but also in some
(15:31):
ways is brought out, dare I say it, some positives,
you know, making sure that people can have access to
events online that they might not have been able to
physically access before, or ensuring that people gain employment because
they can work from home so they don't have to
do the commute. They can be in their own sort
of space and look after themselves at the same time.
(15:54):
So those sorts of things I think are quite important
as well. But I think ultimately people are afraid and
I think the more we make disability visible and normal
and exciting and the more we have lots of high
profile people like Dinesh Aparna doing All Caught and Carly
Finlay and a bunch of those people, whether it be
on social media or the Paralympics or, you know, whatever
(16:16):
it is in medicine, then I think as we talk
more about that and see more about those people, that
will change and think to know that it's okay that
you you probably will get things wrong in the first instance,
but so long as you are listening, learning and being respectful,
I think that's the most important thing.
S1 (16:34):
I think that's something that we really haven't thought about before.
Inclusivity is visibility. It's seeing people like you out there
that represent people with a disability, that represent people with
vision impairments out in the community and seeing what is possible.
S3 (16:49):
Yeah, it definitely is. And I think the more we
see that, the better we will grow and develop as
a society. And you know, let's think about it. 4.4
million Australians live with disability. If you're ignoring those 4.4 million,
that's 20% of the population. It's a huge number. We're
out there, always have been, always will be. So make
(17:11):
things accessible and let's all work together.
S4 (17:13):
There are many.
S1 (17:14):
People in the audience and also in the studio who
see you as a huge inspiration. What would you say
to the next generation of job seekers who want to
pursue a role in communications?
S3 (17:26):
I love it. No day is ever the same. I
thrive off the education that I personally get from being
in journalism. I might be one person in a very
big community of very diverse people with disability, but I
never pretend that I know everything about disability. Even in
(17:46):
this round. This is around where I am constantly learning
as the disability Affairs reporter. And I love that while
I'm learning, I'm teaching both people in my own community,
but also the non-disabled community about our issues and our
people and the things that affect us. So I'd say
that knowing that in a role that journalism plays now
more than ever before, you are providing information and education
(18:11):
and those things are pretty important because people make decisions
based on things they read and learn about and they
develop as people. I think knowing that I contribute to
that is really important. And I'd say that as a
vision impaired person. I mean, the stats unfortunately speak for themselves.
We've made a bit of progress, but it's been incredibly
(18:32):
slow in the area of employment. It is definitely the
one topic that I get the most emails about, so
it's clearly still a huge problem and I think we
still have a long way to go in this space.
But if people can think about what they want to do,
work really hard, nothing will get handed to you on
a silver platter or fall in your lap, and nor
(18:52):
should it for anybody. So acknowledge that you need to
work really hard, acknowledge that you will have some bumps
along the way and wish you all the very best.
S1 (19:04):
So Nazz, what's next for you?
S3 (19:06):
Lots of people ask me this and you know, I'm
only 18 months into this disability affairs round. This is
something I wanted to do for a long time and
18 months is not a long time to be in
the round and I feel like I've only just started
to get a grasp of how to do television after,
you know, nine years of radio. And moving into this
whole new space has just been magic. And I've learnt
(19:29):
so much in the last 18 months that I'm not
really ready to think much beyond that at the moment
because this round is so all consuming and, you know,
fairly exhausting, but also just such a huge passion of mine.
So I'm going to be sticking with this for a
little while longer, but obviously some of the longer term,
you know, I'd love to write a book about some
(19:50):
of the things I've learnt along the way as a
person with disability and do a lot more work in
disability awareness, training and recruitment, kind of work down the
track and continue obviously my speaking and my emceeing, which
I do quite a lot with schools and corporates and
also not for profit organisations. So there's a lot there,
but I'm very happy at the moment with the way
(20:11):
things are.
S1 (20:11):
Well, if you do write a book. I think there
are plenty of us who would love to hear about
your life story and your thoughts. Thank you so much
for your time. You are just such an inspiration and
just a wonderful person to speak with.
S5 (20:24):
Oh, thanks, Belinda. Thanks for thinking of me and for
the kind words.
S3 (20:27):
And yeah, really happy to do it.
S1 (20:29):
That was Nance Campanella, disability affairs reporter for the ABC.
The conversation doesn't have to stop here. Share this podcast
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You can provide feedback through the email Career podcast at
(20:49):
Vision Australia. Org The Career Path Podcast series is available
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to find our webpage where you can listen to other
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(21:09):
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