Baba Lumumba on Self-Ambivalence, Jeff Gallop’s Investigations, & Dr. Robinson on Black America’s Religious Landscape

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And Grand Rising family. Thanks for starting your Tuesday with us. Later,
Grill Baba Lamumba from Emoja House in Washington, DC, we'll
be back in our classroom. Baba la Mumba always always
provides us with some thought provoking topics to discuss. But
before Baba la Mumba, investigative reporter Jeff Gallop will unpack
some of the stories he's currently working on. But momentarily

(00:20):
get us started. Doctor Brook Robinson from Black Economics dot
Org will join us. But first let's get Kevin to
open the classroom doors. It's Tuesday morning, Grand Rising, Kevin Grand.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Rising, Carl Nelson, hay Now, hay Now, it is what Tuesday,
the sixteenth of December. As time just slips right through
your hands like trying to hold water, and it's just
a great morning. Though, man, I know, twenty one degrees.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I was gonna say it's cold.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
But it's something exhilarating about it. You know, it's it's wintertime,
it's the weather outside is kind of thing in moment.
That's the way I look at that. How are you feeling,
my man?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
I'm still learning, Kevin, I'm still learning. Brother.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, that's one of your micro habits of success, isn't
it when you attributed.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
To that, well, I think we all should be learning.
The more you know, the more you know, the more
you know, also know that you don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
And they say as you age, gravity causes you to
be less curious. So it's a mindset that you say, Okay,
I'm going to learn something new today. I'm going to
learn more about myself. I'm going to learn more about
my physicality, learn more about my finances, learn more about

(01:34):
my reading, for that matter, my consumerism, if you will.
And so you know, let me get off of that
soap box and throw out.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
A curious mind. That's what we have.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
That's what we have. A curious mind, exactly, critically curious
and speaking of critical ideas. DC Mayor Miria Bowser is
publicly defending Police Chief Pamela Smith against recent House Oversight
Committee accusations of manipulating crime data, stating she sees no
evidence of this and praising Smith's leadership in dramatically cutting

(02:10):
violent crime and homicides, while acknowledging Smith's resignation announcement effective
December thirty first, as a personal decision amidst ongoing federal scrutiny.
You're saying, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Well, a couple of things, you know, because they put
put the troops, the National Guard on the streets Washington, DC,
claiming that the crime was skyrocketing, and I thought she
was going to quit them, but she did not, so
she waited for her, I guess, to die down. And
they claimed she adopted the reports because she came out
and showed the reports that major crimes had declined in

(02:45):
the district in the opposition to what they were the
White House. He's saying, and you know, this is where
she stands, and people say, well, yeah, that's not true
because people have personal stories. They went and found somebody
who got robbed, somebody got mugged in the district in
between the two. This proves the crime isn't gone down.
But she comes with figures, she comes with facts. So
that's that's where that was. And you know, I know,

(03:07):
if you got robbed, you got mugged, something happened to
you during this time. You say no crime, that means
crime isn't down. But it was a lot worse. But she,
she you know, tried to not personalize it, just just
with the cold, hard facts, and that's what that's what
the White House is pushing back on that she's stepping down.
But yeah, but but you know the facts, they said
she she manipulated the facts. He says, no, these are

(03:29):
these are true. These are figures. You can't manipulate these.
So that's where we're at with that.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
And it just seems that it's hard to dispute crime
data of that nature, especially if you base it on
someone hijacked a person's car on Capitol Hill and now
all of a sudden, that's an increase, and that may
not be in the latest crime data report, and so

(03:55):
they're going to accuse her of manipulating the crime. The
House Oversight report alleges that she pressured subordinates to lower
specific crime statistics by any means necessary, impacting data integrity.
So how do you pressure your supportin as what don't
fill out that report or fill out their report.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well, now, so to the subordinates to speak up? Did
they you know, if you make an accusation like that,
what's the proof. So that's where that is.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, yeah, and the House Overside Committee recommended that Mayor
Bowser appoint an independent chief to restore morale and transparency,
and I tell you keep our eyes in open for that.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh yeah, another slight takeover a little by little. We
mentioned yesterday taking over the golf courses in Washington, DC.
And I want to point the mayor that, I want
to point the police chief. And now you'll probably want
to have a hand in selecting the next mayor of
the district, so we'll keep an eye on that as well.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Right, right, So you want to change the narrative, of course,
if you're trying to manipulate things, is that how that works?
You know, it's who you're gonna believe me or your
lying eyes. Yeah, I'm just not making light of it.
In other news man President Donald Trump's reaction to Rob

(05:16):
Reiner's murder, it's indefensible since CNN, but America has been
here before. The President Donald Trump doubled down on his
social media post about murdered Hollywood director Rob Reiner. He
never second guesses himself. The President never second guesses himself.
So no matter how heinous his actions of words, he's

(05:38):
played this game for years, wielding insults and consequent outrage
as a tool of power. So the question arising from
his diatribes CNN's words not mine, even though I like
that word about when Harry met Sally. Director is not
whether they are grossly offensive. His words are offensive, nor

(05:59):
is the fallout to destroy Trump politically. But Trump says
that Reiner died because of anger he stirred up over
Trump derangement syndrome, which will surprise no one. And now
that's a disease that Donald Trump himself made up. But

(06:20):
his latest assault on decency came at an unprecedented moment
in political history. You know, he suffered revolts from the
Republican Party. They were worried about the Epstein files about
health care and housing and his approving ratings approval ratings
rather than have crashed, And in spite of all of that,

(06:41):
he becomes a vocal critic of I don't know how
people feel about Rob Reiner, but I thought that he
did good work. You know, his work is well documented.
The things he did, everything from All in the Family
to my favorite one of my favorite movies, A Few
Good Men. Rob Reiner directed that, And we were talking

(07:05):
about that, what's your favorite?

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Because you're a service guy, that's what, that's what, that's what. Yeah,
that's why that appealed to you.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, that's right, because you're right. Well, I'm being psychoanalyzed here.
Look because because Tom Cruise was a naval officer.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
There you go. And that's that's why I had appealed
to you.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And Jack Nicholson was a Marine officer, and the Marines
and the Navy are always in dichotomy with each other
in some sort of I don't know, dissonance or cognitive
dissonance with each other. And so yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
You can't handle the truth. That's the truth. That is
the truth. But he's got it by one of the
incredible body of work.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
A great body of work.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
Man.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
When Harry met Sally, you know, that was interesting. It
was controversial because of the scene where she was in
the restaurant.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
You know.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, you know, those scenes will always be like like
your movie and that movie, both of those scenes, man,
stand out, will always stand out.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
And his son is in jail. He's accused of having
been the perpetrator of the murder. And oddly enough, his
son was scheduled to be in the Spinal Tap to movie.
See Rob Reinold created Spinal Tap years ago, that movie
about a fake rock band, and he put his son

(08:36):
Nick in the second installment of it and the things
I read. Nick said that he was finally getting a
chance to bond with his always busy father, and he
thought it was a cool thing. So, you know, this
is like some Hollywood movie or some episode of Colombo
or something to see such a high profile incident of

(08:57):
that nature.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
You know, it's and ourselves having a conversation someone recently
about this, Kevin. You know, high achieving adults parents, they
used to the children usually have some sort of issues
because they're always trying to compare themselves to their parents,
or they usually their fathers as well. You know, and
if you look at some of these children of some
of these name I'm not going to name anybody, you know,

(09:19):
but just their children, how they turned on because they
feel they have to be in competition. They have to
you know, children feel like they have to do better
than dad, better than their parents, and they find the
shadow of their dads is so large, so huge, there's
no way they can compete. So usually they go the
other way, and that's probably what happened in this incident.
That's my analysis, by the way.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Okay, well, thank you, doctor Nelson. Finally, look Touberville calls
for mass deportation of radical Islamis. Following the shooting of
two National guardsmen in d c by an Islamic terrorists,
US Senator Tommy Tuberville, Republican of Alabama, took to the
Senate or to warn of the growing threat of radical Islam.

(10:04):
Senator to Tuberville called on Trump administration to take immediate
action to deport all Islamic terrorists, and he is animate
about it a couple of quotes. He says, I came
to the floor earlier this year to warn of the
imminent threat that Islam poses to our great country. Unfortunately,

(10:24):
that threat turned into a reality just a few weeks
ago when a deranged gee hardist shot two of our
National Guardsmen just steps from the White House. And it
goes on and on and on right there. What are
your thoughts on this kind of a knee jerk reaction.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
So all Islamic, every person who who is Islam, celebrates Islam,
is involved in Islam, is now a terrorist. I mean,
do they go around with a car that says I'm
a terrorist.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
And that's or do you say, do you go in
interview and say are you radicalized? Because that's the adaive
they use they're radicalized Islam. So he even quotes the Quran,
I think incorrectly, but he says the Quran says to
kill all infidels, and so you know, I think that's

(11:14):
dangerous to even But wait, I'll talk about religion.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Our next guest coming up is going to hit on
that as well.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
All right, then, well I'm going to get out of
your way on this sixteenth of December. Thank you for
your time, Carl. That's the way it is on this Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
All right, thanks Kevin. Thirteen after talb I, as I mentioned,
our next guest is doctor Brooks Robinson and so he's
bought a friend with him as well. Grant rising, Doctor Robinson,
welcome back to the program.

Speaker 6 (11:39):
Well, thank you, Amics and Nelson. You've already started a
great day. And actually I'm thinking about hanging around a
little bit to hear Baba la mom. But later today
he always, as you say, brings something interesting to the table.
But we really appreciate you having us on again, and
we have, as you know, doctor Brazier there, who's going
to join us this morning the whole let's discuss this

(12:00):
very important topic.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
All right, Why don't you choose to douce doctor Fraser.

Speaker 6 (12:04):
First, Doctor Robinson, Well, doctor Frazier, welcome to the Carl
Nelson Show. I guess would be the way to say it.
You know, doctor Fraser has a long history in Chicago
talking about agendas or strategic plan She's been working with
the Black Agenda Consortium there in Chicago. She's got a

(12:25):
background in engineering, she knows about construction. But she's a
very strong religious personality as well, and we call her
Reverend doctor Fraser. She's a staunch Kristen who is very
very i would say conservative in her views. But she's
also most importantly in the way we came in touch

(12:45):
with her through the long Term Strategic Plan exercise that
we went through a couple of years ago to ultimately
produce the Long Term Strategic Plans for Black America, which
was released in twenty twenty three. So I welcome doctor
Fraser to your program, The Carlin Nelson Jail.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
All right, Grand Rising.

Speaker 7 (13:03):
Doctor Fraser, thank you very much, Grand Rising, thank you
for having us, and thank you Doctor Brooks.

Speaker 8 (13:07):
Appreciate everything.

Speaker 9 (13:09):
Guys.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Let's talk about this, you know, talk about we were
Kevin to have a discussion about Islamic Islam and we're
talking about religion now for African Americans, for black folks
in America. Uh, it's there is you know, because most
of us, most people of whatever religion we have or
we practice, it's usually because of our parents. And even
even politically, whatever our parents were, we usually do that

(13:33):
whether our parents were Catholic, were Catholic, or whether they
were Baptists, were Baptists, you know, the whole deal. Uh, So,
explain to us how this comes into whether the planned
Doctor Romson that you have, you the strategic long term
plan that you have for Black America.

Speaker 6 (13:49):
Well, you know, it's interesting this piece that we released
week this past week, but the week before. It's called
Inquiry concerning a lack American or Afro Descendant Religion. And
the focus here is that we are a unique people.
I don't think anyone can deny in the world that

(14:10):
lack of Americans are unique in the in the sense
that no other people have undergone the kind of treatment
and experience and history that we've had for over four
years in the United States of America and having been
taken out of Africa, and even though we still have
African roots, and of course, as you know Africa, you
know has all kinds of religious practices, different counter religious practices,

(14:34):
But I think we need to start thinking about what
is unique about us and is there a possibility that
we've had such unique religious experiences that we can think
about assembling a body of work and think about how
can we formulate, put piece together a religion for ourselves
that will be best for us. That's the thrust of

(14:55):
this discussion and this piece that we wrote a couple of.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Weeks ago, and doctor Frasier, some people say that religions
or religion is a man made and I used to
control the people.

Speaker 7 (15:06):
Your thoughts, well, I would look at it in two
different perspectives. They're probably more uh. Yes, of course, I
do agree that many of the religious practices have been
orchestrated by a man made structure construct if you will. However,

(15:29):
on a spiritual plane, I would say that once you've
delved into whatever specific religious practice that are persons operating in,
that it becomes deeper than just a man made entity,
because it becomes spiritual dead and so you know, you
have to make the distinction between the spiritual and the

(15:49):
natural component. So as far as that, that would be
my answer regarding you know, that question that.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
You ask, all right, got a step for a few moments. Hold,
I thought, right there, we're gonna step away from me
and when we come back or get into the discussion,
also talk about God. We had a big discussion here
and I'll tell you about it when we get back.
Eighteen minutes at the top of our family, just waking up,
I guess is doctor Brooks Robson, also doctor Fraser, with Usten,
doctor Gavel Frasier, you want to speak to him. Were
talking about religion for Black America. What are your thoughts?

(16:19):
Eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six
will get you in and we'll take a phone calls
next and grand Rising family. If you're just waking up
with us, I guess Dr Robinson, doctor Fraser, we're talking
about religion this morning. And the question, you know, let
me just share this with you because past two weeks
with and this is sort of a spillover from the
conversation we had about God and the deity is the

(16:41):
centerpiece of any religion, and the question is is there
a God? And since we're talking about religions for African Americans,
Black America, why would God allow us to go through
all that we've been through. D Rommes. You mention we're
special people that we are because we've survived. Why did
we have to go through all of this? Why it
seems like us as a people have to go through
all of this if there is a guy?

Speaker 6 (17:02):
Well, yeah, so an easy answer, okay. And I don't
know if you were at the Million Man March, but
and there are many people who've explained this, but Minister
Lewis far Khan at the Million Man March said it
this way. First of all, he said, you know, not
only are black people down in this at the bottom
of this pit in a sense, but so are others.

Speaker 10 (17:25):
He said.

Speaker 6 (17:25):
But and he said you should question God. See people
fail to do that. He said, you should question God.
And he said why should you question God? He said, God,
why ask QUI said, why did you let them do
this to us? And that to us? And so on
and so forth? And then he gives the answer. He says,
I put you down here, I let you go through
all of that. I put you through this fiery furnace

(17:46):
so that once you are lifted and elevated to a
higher level, you can really appreciate what you have. You
see simple as that.

Speaker 7 (17:55):
And you doctor Frasier, Well, if I go by scriptual
you know, uh reference uh, through the Christian faith and
belief and doctrine is that God that we as a
people has been brought into the life of sin, and
sin of course is a reproach against God all together.

(18:20):
And so every time sin had been introduced, if you will, uh,
you go into captivity. And so that's pretty much what
happens as a consequence for disobedience. And you know, uh, yeah,
the disobedience, I'm just believe it at the disobedience and
defiance against God's ordain, laws and structures and so forth.

Speaker 6 (18:47):
Before we went to the pre a critical point, can
I do that? First of all, we failed to take
the Creator for just talking about the Creator. We failed
to thank the Creator and our ancestors for just being
here today and thinking about how we came through this
year so quickly. And now we're passed the halfway mark
of the last month. So we thank the Creator and

(19:08):
our ancestors for guiding us to this point. The point
that I wanted to make before we went to the
break is this, if people really just took the time
to see, as you said, we get stuck because mainly
because of our parents, any particular religion, political particular political party,
or something of that nature, and we just stay there.
But if you read the books, especially the Quran, which

(19:31):
is the third of the important three Judaeo Christian, Islamic religions,
the Western religions, the Quran says this, According to my
reading of it, it says all of the three religions.
Thus another of religion is also represents people who believe
in the One God and who live a lifestyle that

(19:53):
is acceptable to God. And so what the Quran basically
is saying is this, whether you're a Jewish, whether a Hebrew,
whether you're a Christians, or whether you're Islamic, if you
live a righteous life, do the basic fundamental things, have
all of the basic fundamental consistent beliefs and systems, and
the prayers and fasting and all of this worship. All

(20:16):
of these religions are accepted. So why not take of
them not as different religions with some reason to wall
yourself off in one of the religions and ignore the
other two. You know, why not think about looking at
all the religions and what is wrong with reading beyond?
You know, just one book. Why not read all the books?

(20:39):
Maybe you'll find something in the other two books that
is not only acceptable, but it is pleasant for you.
And why not practice that? I mean, there are so
many reasons to get broader and take more dynamically about
religion than we have tended to do. And that's just

(20:59):
the nature the human But today the world is different. Access, defamation,
the ease of access, the ability to research, all of
that is so much easier. Why not begin to explore
and start moving beyond the one religion that you may
have been kind of stuck in for your entire life.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Twenty six out of tough. Yeah, that's doctor Brooks Rompson.
Doctor Gil Frasiers really says well talking about religions for
African Americans, African regions for Black Americans. I agree with you.
I think we should have studied all of the religions and
read them. There's a book, and read and read them
more than once if you have the time and the tolerance,
and do it with an open mind as well. But
it still does not indicate the fact, guys, that we

(21:36):
have gone through so much we I think doctor Fraser
was saying that, you know why we went through so
much because we broke one of God's laws. I think
African Black Americans. I think black people in just in
period more religious than any other group on an average.
You know, we go to church more, we believe, go
to the synagogue, we go, we go the Mosca, the majah,

(21:59):
we do all of that as a people. But yet
still are we are we reaching out to the wrong God?
Doctor Frasier?

Speaker 7 (22:07):
Well, you know, I know this topic was pertaining to
economics and everything and everything relative to us being unified.
But if you want me to go there, I can
go there. Do you want me to go there?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Sure?

Speaker 7 (22:24):
This is well said.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
We have this big discussion, so you know when next bro,
I like you would love to hear from what you
has to say your perspective.

Speaker 7 (22:31):
Okay, So here is the issue. Basically, individuals speak in
terms of religion, you know, as far as a belief
structure and institution so forth that people ascribe to. But
the point is is that it's a spiritual connection with God,

(22:55):
and from the belief in God, all gods are not
the gods from the Christian perspective. And the thing that
we need to understand also is that as they think,
many people think that there be many gods, but these

(23:15):
gods may not necessarily be the God. And so that
is the discovery that people have to be able to
connect to, you know, in terms of that, now, people
believe what they want to believe in who they want
to believe. But the reality is is that not every

(23:36):
religion in terms of being passed down through parents. I
can say for myself with my beliefs and everything did
not come down because of what my parents believed in.
I had a transformation, okay. And so if we just
look at religion in the context of it just being
an institution, then we miss the whole hand behind it. Now,

(24:01):
the definition that I was looking at just for the
sake of this particular program for religion is a pursuit
or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. So if
we're looking at it from an economic component, then from
my perspective, the various religions can tease out those things

(24:24):
where their commonalities and connect into that to be able
to bring forth some degree of unification towards that end
of trying to create something distinct. However, if we're going
through the actual state of trying to mesh the various
religions together, that would not be something that could be possible.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
All right, aready want to talk to you guys, doctor Robinson,
you want to say something?

Speaker 6 (24:51):
Yeah, you know, I think doctor Fraser's trying to take
us a little bit back toward the long term strategic
plan and just stay quickly. There's a chapter or sector
nine of them, but one of them is titled recreation,
Religion and culture. These are functions, but the point is
there is a connection between religion or morality and economics.

(25:17):
The father economics Adam Smith, the Britisher. He's from what
is now known as England is On. He wrote the
definitive work that he was the father of economics. He
wrote two major books. One is called The Wealth of
the Nations. That's the book that describes economics, its principles
and all of that. But before he wrote that book,

(25:39):
he understood the importance of having a moral base, or
a religious base on which the society would have to
operate if any economists functioned properly, and so he laid
that moral base with the book called the Theory of
Moral Sentiments. And then about twenty years later he wrote
The Wealth of Nations, which really outlines the economic system

(26:00):
economy that we kind of work with today in a
certain kind of way. Here's the reason why we are
dealing with this topic with respect to the long terms
to the name of Black of America, and that is religion.
Then they shapes the mind, right, shapes the mind. And
that's where we need to start to bring lack of
the art together. We need to look at how we
think about almost every aspect of our life and then

(26:21):
figure out what is the best way to think about it,
incorporate that into a religious system, which is just a
practice of how you live your life. In my In
my view, that's how I find it really did how
you live your life. And then once we get the
mind right, what we've been saying is we get the
mind right and then everything else falls in place. And
getting the mind right, one of the best places to

(26:42):
start is the belief system.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Got you hold that thar that twenty eight away from
the top, as I make sure you got some folks
want to speak with you guys already if you just
checking in family, doctor Robinson, is I guess Doctor Frasier's
I tell my religion is connection to economics? What are
your thoughts? Eight hundred and four or five zero seventy
eight seventy six. Get you in Marcus calling from Baltimore's
online to Grand Rise in Market on with doctor Robinson
and doctor Frasier.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yes, good morning. First of all, when I wish you
all your listens are happy, honeker. Today is the third
day of the Jewish Eighty Day Jewish Festival, which goes
to next Monday, de Sember twenty second. During the day
fascinating discussion, I had a question in our Jewish faith system.
We have several African American and you know, people what
we call Jews of color who have converted to our

(27:27):
religion of Judaism as religious faith. So have you done
a study more deeply into why some African Americans are
becoming Jewish religiously speaking? You know, I myself, I am
a born Jews. It's a bit different, but there are
some who do convert to join Jewish faith. So have

(27:47):
you done a study on it? And what do you
think about that? Going back to our ancient religious ways?

Speaker 10 (27:52):
Thank him?

Speaker 6 (27:54):
Well, I'll start doctor you know mind, I'm sure you
have something to add. Well, what we know is the
Hebrew faith, you know. Uh, that's so that's in North
East African phenomena. I mean there are people still today
in UH in Eastern Africa that practice the old systems
that the old Jewish tradition first initiated. So, uh, there's

(28:19):
a longstanding history of black people, African people being used.
And what's the an connection to the United States of America. Well,
most people have the false understanding that all of the
black people, all of the Africans that are in the
America today, came from the west coast of Africa. That's false.
There's a there's significant evidence that some of the people

(28:42):
that are in the America today, both in North, central
and South America, UH, have well originally originated from East Africa.
They found boats recently at the southern tip of Africa
had come all around from the East side on their
way to the Western hemisphere, probably maying some people who

(29:02):
made it very weller than Jewish. So there's a long
sunderstanding history of African people being Jewish. And I don't
get to another point later about the connection, but go
ahead and UH give way now to doctor Fraser aker
comments about this.

Speaker 7 (29:19):
Okay, So to Dove tell off of what doctor Brooks said,
I would say right now, as black people, many black
people are on the journey of discovery. It's like who
am i?

Speaker 9 (29:31):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (29:32):
And because of the separation from the continent of Africa
and and and also the other things that have happened
on our journey in life throughout this track here in
the United States and so forth, it's like I would say,
it's an awakening that's coming to many people. And when
you're in the area or are you looking for yourself

(29:56):
trying to discover you who you are, because oftentimes people
try to separate your natural man from the spirit man,
and you can't do that. So naturally, you know, we
have our physical flesh, but spiritually we have an entity
that's on the inside called spirit. And so when you're

(30:18):
on a journey, that spirit on the inside is leading
you to find, to search out, to seek out. And
so right now, many people and many people that I
know are also looking at the Hebrew roots, you know,
and it's called on this particular space, it's called Messianic

(30:39):
for those that are looking and seeking and searching. So
there are many things that you can ascribe to this,
but this is one of the things that I would say,
the journey and trying to discover oneself, and a lot
of times. This is how you have to go when
you're trying to discover yourself. So that's pretty much you know,

(31:00):
my comment on it.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
And doctor Frey, that's the next one point of twenty
four away from the top of that I know thyself.
That's what's what asked. Scholars tell us that most of
our people who are on that journey don't know who
they are. Make the question, if you know who you are,
would you be on that journey? Would you need to
take a journey to discover if you are? If you
already know who you are, if you know that your
your African you mentioned I think doctor Romson mentioned the

(31:22):
Africans were here, and well not all Africans came into
slave trade, but everyone, every single person on this planet
came from Africa, doesn't matter what time they come. I
think that's the problem that we get caught up in
the in the sequence of when we appeared on these shores.
But my question, and I'll let you guys respond when
we get back. And also Clifford Connecticut has another question
for you, because we got to check the news. But
the question is if you already know who you are,

(31:44):
if you already know what that's you're African, and that
goes to probably if you want to spread it around,
every every person on this planet is in Africa. That's
where mankind started, So it doesn't matter. You know. Part
of our problem is that we just see ourselves between
the borders of the United States and we just think
when we got here, when our ancestors got here, but
our answerts were all we populated the planet, So it

(32:04):
doesn't matter what time we got here. So family we
get back. I'll let you answer that for us at
doctor Frasier, doctor Rompson, climb in and we'll also talk
to A Cliff as well. And if you too out
there want to join this conversation, reach out to us
at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy
six and we'll take your phone calls. After the news
trafficking weather that's next, and Grand Rising family, thanks of
waking up with us on this Tuesday morning. That's sixteen

(32:25):
minutes away from the top of the out with our guest,
doctor Brooks Robson. You've heard him before, the founder and
the chief of contributor to Black Economics dot org. And
also he's brought along with our guests this morning, doctor Reverend,
doctor Frasier, we're talking about religion, religion for a Black America,
African Americans. What are your thoughts? Eight hundred four or
five zero seventy eight seven six will catch you in
before we go back there. Let me just remind you.

(32:47):
Coming up later this morning, Grill Baba Lamumba works out
of a moja house in Washington, DC, will be here
before we get to Baba Lamumba investigative journalist, the reporter
Jeff Gallup who shares some of the stories he's working on.
He works in the central Florida area, and also coming
up later this week, you're in here from chematologists the
Tony Browner, also a musician, musician, metaphysician, and master herbalist.

(33:08):
Doctor b will be here. So if you are in Baltimore,
make sure you keep you right of locked in real
tight on ten ten WLB or if you're in the DMV,
we're on fourteen fifty WOL. All right, Doctor Frasian, Doctor Robinson.
Before we left for the break, question to you because
doctor Frasian mentioned we're on a journey, the journey of discovery.
If we already know who we are, that we're Africa.
Everybody came, you know, doesn't matter if you come the

(33:28):
East coast, west coast of Africa. You got here yesterday today,
or you got here last week, or your ancestors here,
or you wrote over before the Mayfi, before the transitlank
staves there, You're still African. So doctor Frasier, can you
address that for me, because you said people are trying
to figure out who they are?

Speaker 7 (33:45):
Okay, so then the thing is you said that we're
still African, and of course that's true, but what does
that mean? What does it mean to say that you're
African in terms of values, more rays, economics, so forth
and so on, and that has not been defined clearly.
Because we who are of African descent, we are African.

(34:08):
We know that's in our blood, that's in our DNA.
We had our African DNA trace and all of that.
But the essence, because it's more than just knowing, it's
just it's more than just a knowing, Sam, well, I'm
from this place. But when you look at your inner self,
where am I going, what am I doing? Why am

(34:30):
I here? There are all those types of questions. That's
a part of the discovery. So it's not just trying
to discover where is the land? Where am I from?
You know, I mean, it's much more deeper than that.
And if I could just add something else to that.
That's one of the challenges that our young people have
today are black young males and females. They don't know

(34:51):
who they are. And that's more than just saying I'm
of African descent or I'm from Africa. It's knowing who
you are, why you would create, why do you exist?
And so that's another conversation, I guess for another day.
But it's much deeper than just saying I'm from this country.

Speaker 8 (35:10):
So yes, that's that's pretty much it.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Okay, doctor Robinson.

Speaker 6 (35:15):
Yeah, Doctor frangerates some interesting points. But I think that
I even like to go deeper than that. Okay, what
do I mean? I go back to the religious literature,
and this is what the Quran says, and it countervails
Christianity somewhat because when you read the Quran, whether they're

(35:36):
reading the Torah from you know, the Christian point of
view or the Hebrew point of view, or the Angel
or the New Testament, there's this idea of thin the
unworthiness of man and woman because of you know that
that little incident in the guarden. But here's the point.
The Quran says this, And you could think about a

(35:57):
baby being born in the world today, how can I
baby have sinned? And so the Koran says, hey, everybody
who is born initially, if you don't put them in
a society, and if they could survive on their own,
what are they going to be or what are they
at the core? The answer is they're going to just

(36:17):
lend in with the creation, you see. So what the
Quran basically says is we are all Muslims in the
sense that we submit to the will of God, which
means that we align ourselves. We don't countervail, we don't
act in opposition to the principles, the laws and the
rules of the creation. So that's the important point to me.

(36:39):
We're all basically good people until we come into a
society that has all kinds of biases and you know,
problems and issues that we buy into, and then that
creates the problem. One other point that is very important,
that's align with the point just made. The Quran is
even more specific than that. It says, point blank, Ibrahim
or Abraham, who is you know, the father of Judaism

(37:04):
in a sense, they adopted him the Christians as well.
They recognized Abraham as being central to the Christian faith.

Speaker 11 (37:11):
The Quran said, wait a minute.

Speaker 6 (37:13):
Either he even existed even before Judaism. Either he existed
long the wor Christianity, and he existed therefore is not
what did he do? He's related to the world of God.
What did he do? The angels came and told him
to do certain things because of the circumstances, what did
he He got up and did them. So when we
operate an alliance or in alignment with the rules, the

(37:38):
principles and the laws of creation, there was just just
being good people, but were submitting to the word of God,
which is what Islam is all about. Why because we
want to have peace, We just want to have you.
We just want a pleasant and peaceful life. So I
think that's the way we look at it. And I
think one final point is this whole process that we're

(37:59):
talking out here is not to reconstruct all of the
religious aspects of the denominations that exist today in the
in the context of bringing black people together under a
unified umbrella. It's about trying to form an administrative body
that brings us together in a certain way with some

(38:20):
variation uh. You know across the various uh uh groups
that operate under a religious tradition what they call sex right.
You got the air media, you know, you got the
uh you got the Methodists, you know African Methodists, you
got the far Me, you got the Baptists, Southern Baptists,

(38:42):
you got uh bactors US and you got all these groups.
But if you can bring them on one or umbrella
uh administratively unify them tool resources, think more strategic about
how all of these religious groups can operate together to
improve outcomes of Black America. That's what we're talking about here.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Got you ten away from the top FAI family. If
you're just checking in, doctor Romsey that you just heard,
you've heard of here before. Doctor Brooks Robinson from Black
Economics dot always brought along a guest with them, revend
doctor Fraser this morning talking about religion high religion equates
the economy economics actually trying to connect some dots here.
Eight hundred and four five zero seventy eight to seventy six.
Cliffs calling us from Connecticut. He's online, three grand rising, Cliff,

(39:24):
your thoughts on all your.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Call them to your guests. I think you're right on
point in terms of is there a god? And when
we talking about religion, where I believe that the question
is is there a superior being that exists? And let
me start off fights and let me say this and
see if it makes any sense. All of us know
that we have pets or somebody that owns a pet, right,
so that cat or that dog does not know the

(39:49):
same superior being that we do. We are that superior
being to that pet. So meaning that we care for
that pet, that pet, we take care of that that
that pat looks at us as being its god. So
I would say that as human beings, there is an
existence that's the same way. It's superior. It takes care

(40:13):
of us, and we look at this being as being
our god, being superior. So to move forward, the thing
is is that our existence or our god the one
that created us?

Speaker 5 (40:28):
Right?

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Is it different from other people?

Speaker 8 (40:33):
So?

Speaker 4 (40:34):
I think you mentioned brother Counsel, your first caller, that
we are the original people black people, and Judaism is
a religion, not an ethnicity. So we talk about Hebrews
and blackness. We are the your original people. Now we
might have different tribes in our blackness. But I think
the same question is who is our God? And right

(40:56):
now to bring it deeper and to bring closure to this,
there are now hearings and you have people in law
enforcement and these hearings now trying to say that there
are other beings that exist. UFOs apused. So my question
is to your guests, could these entities could be no exist?

(41:17):
But the government has not come out and and testify,
and they have no come out and confirm are these
other beings? Could they be our gods?

Speaker 1 (41:29):
All right?

Speaker 6 (41:31):
Hey, as a brother was on one of the earlier
programs that I participated in, and so I recognize his voice,
and he does bring to the table some tenor trading questions.
I'm not an expert on that, so I'm not going
to try to venture to provide some you know, wise analysis.
But I've read a little bit about the on anarchy.
You know, people say that the on anarchy is gay.

(41:52):
I think that's how you pronounced it, that they came
from from elsewhere.

Speaker 10 (41:55):
You know.

Speaker 6 (41:56):
So, but I don't look at the being he says,
being our gods. What I look at is what Abram,
you know, I think about what Abram said said, hey, look,
he looked at the moon. He said, that's beautiful. They said, well,
but that's not a god. He looked at the sun.
He said, oh, that's wonderful, powerful, it's you know, it
keeps life going on the planet. Wow, that's powerful. But

(42:20):
that's not God. The question is who made all of that?
Who is the creative at all? And when you really
think about it, I think you have to come to
the following conclusion, and that is, whoever created the creation
put it all together in a very systematic way, that
it all functions perfectly in a sense, and that that
entity put itself also into everything that's there or that

(42:42):
it's here. I'll make one other point and then, you know,
to give way to doctor Frazier. You know what was
interesting I was talking about this, We were talking about
it recently when the Europeans came to Africa and they
denigrated us in a very horristic way. They said, oh,
these people are animist. They worshiped the river, they worshiped

(43:04):
the trees, they worshiped the rocks, the mountains. We're rolling
these people, you know, can't they understand the Christian God?
And then the thought came in the following way. In
parts of the Bible it talks about I think Jesus
is the one who said people were talking to him, oh,
we love God, we love God.

Speaker 8 (43:22):
Jesus love God.

Speaker 6 (43:23):
And Jesus said to them, he said, look, how can
you say you love God and you have not seen
and you don't even love your brother. The analogy is this,
the Africans said, probably said to themselves, and I'm just
you know, kind of anticipating here are kind of rising
here that they knew about the great God, the one
who produced and created all this. But who was close

(43:46):
to them? What was close to them that they could
understand God's existence in?

Speaker 12 (43:51):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (43:51):
Yeah, the rivers got the water, and rivers that you know,
kept them, kept them from being thirsty, the trees with
berries and fruits our own cans. Who knows what they
found us in their life, but see, those are the
things close to them that they could identify with directly.
So they love those things. And who are trying to
reach way high and understand that did God? I think

(44:12):
that's a beautiful analogy that came, and I think people
might want to consider that as way of looking at,
you know, how we operate and what we think about
God and our people right here together with us on
the planet. Let's get it all together, think about it
systematically and just live a peaceful life. But first of all,
do with each other properly and then think about the bigger,

(44:34):
you know, broader, more dramatic picture.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Well, doctor Phrase, hold you your response. We got to
step aside and get caught up with the ladies' trafficking
weather at different cities, and I'll let you respond when
we get back. Family due too. You've got a question
for either I guess that doctor Robinson or doctor Fraser.
You know how to reach us eight hundred four five
zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take it calls
after the trafficking weather. That's next. Family, Thanks for starting
your Tuesday with us. And I guess that doctor Brooks

(44:59):
Robson from economics dot org. And also he's brought a
guest with them, doctor Fraser, Reverend doctor Fraser. And before
we left for the traffic update, the Cliffin Connecticut posed
the question and they're responding to that. So doctor Frasher,
I'll let you respond to Cliff's question.

Speaker 7 (45:12):
Sure, and thank you so much regarding what mister Cliffs
had indicated. One of the things that I would say,
and I'm just going to quote this person who had
written his name as doctor Kevin Connor and says doctor
and received believed in practice determines a person's character, behavior,
and destiny. And so even in the question or the

(45:33):
comment that was made that goes back to what I
initially said, that black people are on discovery, that we
are actually as a people trying to find out who
we are in relationship to God. Now I want to
also go back to what was something said previously relative
to you know, us being good people and so forth

(45:54):
and so on. Scripturally, according to the Bible, it says
that you must be born again. So being born again
is being is not saying that everybody's good. Being born
again means your life has to be transformed, and so
everybody's lives may not be transformed. And so this discovery,

(46:17):
the prayer is that everybody would ultimately be able to
get into that space where their lives can be transformed.
But again it also goes back further that all gods
are not the same, and all gods in the specific religions,
let's say the monotheistic religions are not the same in
the eyes of the believers who practice those religions. The

(46:39):
other one is that is necessary. And that's the reason
why we were talking initially about trying to galvanize around
certain components such as economics, morality, and those things, because
those things can be teased out. Even if you look
at the Ten Commandments, okay, and the ten command as

(47:00):
it talks about not killing, not stealing, those are moral
issues and things of how we engage with one another.
In addition to that, financially economically we can if we
can galvanize around okay, we need economic empowerment, let's tease
out those things that we believe in and work towards

(47:20):
that end, as opposed to saying that it's one specific,
because it will never be an agreement on which God
is God unless you, by revelation know it in the
spirit real. And that's something that many people may not
ever come to understanding in that way that other people
may think they should think. So if we could, could

(47:44):
you know, ajail everything in terms of economics, we agree, okay,
all of us have a structure saying, okay, we agree
to this particular principle of economics, morality, how we treat
one another, how we engage one another and and on
along those things. Then at least we would have some
type of guideline that everybody could ascribe to. So this

(48:09):
conversation can really go on because it gets to be
so deep and it's it's not superficial, you know. Uh,
it really can be very deep, and it would take
time to tease out the different uh you know, and
nuanced different things to be able to really do it
in the right way, to be able.

Speaker 8 (48:29):
To give it some justice and credence and so forth.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
So my comment, thank you, Doctor Fraser. Five after time,
I'm gonna tell you Jeff Galav's gonna join us. Jeff
is an investigative reporter in central Florida and speaking about
Florida Averyone wants to join the conversation. He's calling from Tallahassee,
the state capital. He's online too, Grand Rise in Avery
with doctor Robson and doctor Fraser.

Speaker 13 (48:52):
Good morning to everyone, and shout out to my big brother,
doctor Brooks Robinson. He knows we have this and a
brother in I'm so fortunate to be with all of
you this morning. And so my question is what does
love have to do with it?

Speaker 5 (49:09):
And beyond?

Speaker 10 (49:10):
From a team Eternal perspective. But as I've.

Speaker 13 (49:13):
Heard the one, as I heard everyone partifiicate this morning,
it reminded me of Maga Excellence. Yes, Marga Make America
got me again because it took me to our roots
in three or six.

Speaker 10 (49:30):
In south west.

Speaker 13 (49:31):
Gainsville, about two miles from the University of Florida on
the west side, two miles on the east side to
the newly created Natorade Museum. And as we were growing up,
we grew up with a thought process and the principle
that was lived out that without that, faith without works
is dead. We were taught growing up something beyond religion.

(49:57):
It was relationship and down the relationship is both horizontal
and vertical because the pillars of the law hangs on
a love for God and a love for one another.
And so as I continue to grow mature, Reverend doctor
Frasier uh and to be born again, which means that, look,

(50:17):
nobody chooses their parents. A baby does not form itself.
The decision is made for him for her. But I
leave with this that if it ain't love, it ain't God,
because God is loved.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Thank you, Thank you, Avery, Doctor Fraser. You want to
respond first, and then we'll let doctor Robson.

Speaker 7 (50:41):
I agree one hundred percent. As a matter of fact,
the Bible says that love is kind, merciful, gracious, long suffering, temperance,
All of those things are attributes of love. But summoning
everything up as saying that you should love the Lord
your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength,
and love your neighbor as yourself. That's what all of
the law and the prophets hang on love. And so

(51:04):
being able to understand the concept of love is a practice.
It's not a verbal assent or anything like that. You
practice this, and that means you're intentional about being kind
and merciful and and all of those things that that
are the attributes of love. And so when we understand

(51:24):
and have a clarity that that love is the one
that unifies, love is the thing that emboldens us and
and and and and all of the things that we
need to do, the love for our people should be
sufficient enough to to for the most part, in the
sense of connecting these dots of how do we work together?

Speaker 8 (51:47):
How do we work together?

Speaker 7 (51:48):
But then scripturally it also is a passage that says,
how can two walk together? Since they be agreed? So
that part again I'm going to go back to, is
that we have to come in alignment with those things
that we agree on. What do we agree on and
so if we say we can agree on this, that
we can operate through that understanding.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
All right, Yeah, this is very deep and we can't
cover it today, but I will say very quickly the following. Yeah,
love is important, and work can divine love in a
variety of ways. But what comes to mind is the following.

(52:32):
If you love each other totally and completely, which is difficult,
can be difficult to do, then yes, you're going to
do the right thing. And if you do the right thing,
as Adam Smith said back in the eighteenth century when
you wrote the Theory of Moral Sentiments, if everybody is
living in that kind of loving framework, then the economy
is going to work well together. And for black people,
the most important thing it would mean is that we

(52:54):
would trust. See, you got to bring that word trust in.
If you love each other, you love each other to feel,
you know, confident enough and trusting enough to be willing
to be hurt a little bit and to be uh,
you know, willing to be open a little bit. Uh,
And that's what's required for us to then come together
in that trust and from trust to build unity or

(53:16):
Moja and gonna have the man from Moji house here
later today, right ansis and uh. And once we get
that unity, then we can organize ourselves in the most
efficient way. And all we're talking about in this whole
analysis on inquiring concerning of Black American religion is how
can we use religion the most important, the second most
important institution in Black America, second to the family. How

(53:38):
can we use it? Most people are using it as
a business. Let's use it as a framework to unify
under one umbrella. Bring the love, you know, don't worry
about fine tuning all the religious aspects of it, but
bring all these organizations together, pool our resources, and use
it as a unifying force that can then help us
move forward. And with the technology today, I think we
could we could have a winner if we did that.

(54:00):
If the leadership was right and we took that perspective,
I think we grow a lot, and I think we've
improved things for ourselves as opposed to sitting around and
waiting for other people to do it. Worse.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Gotcha listen, we got a step side and bring up
Jeff Gallup he's an investigative reporter. He's on deck. Before
we let both of you guys go at your punning
words for us this morning.

Speaker 7 (54:22):
Doctor Fraser first, well, I'm first, I'm honored to be
on I'm grateful. I really appreciate this opportunity to share.
We all agree that this sick gets to be very,
very deep, but it's very thought provoking. And my prayer
is for those who at least listening in that they
will have the opportunity to sit back and reflect and

(54:43):
just just consider what's been said. And you know, of course,
we know that our destiny and everything depends on us
being unified as a people, if not just for ourselves,
but for our posterity, because the children and the things
that they're going through right now, they have to know better,
and so they have to know better, they have to
have a better in their lives. So if we can

(55:06):
agree and come together along the lines that we have
been speaking on, then I believe we'll be on a
good start.

Speaker 8 (55:14):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (55:15):
Yeah, yeah, I will just say quickly, because I know
you have to move on to the next guest, that
all of this, as I said, is fine. We should
think just quickly that religion has become you know, churches
and must have become marginally businesses, right, and so mergers
and acquisitions happen all the time. Why not take that
approach as far as church organizations. Keep the religious part

(55:39):
of it, yes, the morality part of it, you know,
the kindness to the trust and all of that. But
let's organize around something that can unifize trust and religious
organizations or institutions and then build from that. Get the
mindset right under that umbrella, and then we can make
real big progress. But we've got to have someplace to start,
and this seems like one of the most effications places

(56:02):
to start, all right.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I thank both of you. If folks want to reach you,
doctor Romson, first, how can they reach you they want
to continue this discussion.

Speaker 6 (56:11):
Well, they can reach me and and doctor Fraser through
uh the lt S T f B a website that
is the long Term Strategic Plan for Black America l
T S T s B A dot org. And if
they go to that website and they can they'll see,
you know, waste the contact us there. And then of
course this idea came from our particular website, Black Economics

(56:35):
dot org. Uh, So they can reach us in either
of those two places, and we'll be certain to pass
on the information to doctor Fraser, who's very much integrated
with the lt S t F B A. And uh,
we can continue discussing and maybe come back at a
later point to add to uh, you know what what says.

Speaker 10 (56:53):
That here today?

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Okay, let's do that for bet. Thank you, Thank you guys,
Thank you for joining us this morning, and thank you
for all of the from you shared with the family.

Speaker 7 (57:02):
Thank you for having us.

Speaker 8 (57:03):
Appreciate you so much. Slush you, bye bye.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
All right, thirteen out, that's off that, Jeff Gallup, and
thank you for being so patient with us. Grand Rising,
welcome back to the program.

Speaker 10 (57:13):
Hey, Grand Rising, good to be here, and thank you.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Jeff is an investigative reporter journalist. He works out of
Central Florida and he's been working in some stories.

Speaker 14 (57:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
One of the reasons we have, Jeff on, there's some
stores that take place in some of these small towns
and never get they never get talked about, never make
the big the big news. Mainstream media really attacks. But
you're saying that there's a fresh wave of youth finance
in in your air in Central Florida.

Speaker 10 (57:39):
Oh yeah, absolutely, just just tragic stories about like, for example,
a young fifteen year old girl back in November who
was out with a couple of friends, including her boyfriend.
They went out to in the broad daylight, went out
to a restaurant to get an order of chicken wings
and French fries, and uh, the young man comes up,

(58:01):
he sees them, He comes back, brings a friend and
they block the young lady in. She's in the car
and her friends and they began shooting and they killed her.
We also had a thirteen year old who was arrested
and charged with first degree murder because basically he carried

(58:22):
out a boxed robbery of another young man, actually a
guy who was thirty years old, who was apparently using,
according to the police, some type of dating site or
the social media site to make contact with someone in
that particular community up in Coco. The young thirteen year
old went up to the truck and according to police,
shot him and with the man's last breast. He called

(58:44):
nine one one to say that he had been robbed.
But we have other cases out there as well.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Wow, hold on, thought right there, Jeff, Jeff, right there,
fifteen year old fifteen minutes off the top a thirteen
year old thirteen.

Speaker 10 (59:00):
Thirteen year old and it's this is in Coco, Florida.
And you know, Coco, Florida is a community in Florida
that has had some issues before. Like other communities, you know,
it happens. This one was particularly shocking because again someone
from outside the community, the thirty year old man, uh,

(59:20):
for whatever reason, he had been contacting someone there and
drove into that community. The young man thirteen, he was
communicating with someone else who told him to carry out
this particular situation. The tragic is what it is, especially
when you see this photo.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, and the common denominator here that was going back
to the web again. What website you know, brought them
to these two together, can you do?

Speaker 10 (59:49):
You know? Yeah, And that's that's something that actually is
happening a lot, not just here in Florida, but it
happens something in the DC area, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas. And uh,
it's a young man of being robbed. Young you know,
they sometimes they go to hotels hoping to get together
with other people, including young ladies and robbery and suite

(01:00:14):
in some case dating site, well like a meating of
social media for lack of a better term hookup site.
That is, uh, that is what we're talking about. And
in this case, and this particular case here in Coco.
You know, I talked to his grandmother, and she's a
sweet lady, church going lady who had mission mission trips
all over the world.

Speaker 9 (01:00:34):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:00:35):
She from all that she knows is that someone killed
her grandson, and and and and that was it. She
thought he was going out to meet some friends. And
that's all she knew, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
So he was he was online, Uh, trolling for for
for friends that companish? It was it for? Was it
a gay? Was it straight? I think it's part of
the story needs to be told. A thirteen year old
online is trying to get a hook up with another
was another man? The woman who Jeff help us out.

(01:01:07):
I'll tell you, well, I'm looking at the clock. I'll
let you respond that when we get back. We got
to take a short break from an interesting conversation. I guess.
There's Jeff Gallup. He's an investigative reporter, just all these researchers.
We've got a bunch of stories that he's working on
in Central Florida, and we'd like to bring them to
you because some of these stories that you hear from Jeff,
they're all across the country, but they never get reported,
and the usually they're in our communities. You want to
join our discussion with Jeff, reach out to us at

(01:01:29):
eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six
and we'll take your phone calls. Next and Grand Rising
Families in Facts are starting your day with us at
twenty one minutes after the top of the eye with
I guess that Jeff Gallop. Jeff is an investigative journalist.
He was a reporter works out of Central Florida, usually
covering some of the things that take place in some
of these in small town America, and it happens all
across the country, but they never get reported. And this

(01:01:51):
one to me just sort of stood out. When you're
a thirteen year old, thirteen year old faces life in
prison for an adult murder. So Jeff explain that again
to us to the audience. So we congrass because he
hooked up on a social media site.

Speaker 10 (01:02:08):
Well, without all of the details of being out there,
we want to be very careful, but here's what we
do know that there was some type of communication using
a dating app between an unknown person and the victim
in this case. The victim in this case thirty year
old man. Everyone talks about him as being a great,

(01:02:28):
solid person, you know, and again I talked to his grandmother.
He goes to the neighborhood expecting to communicate further with
this person. But whoever that person was, they communicated with
the thirteen year old, had the thirteen year old go
and approach the man. So that's the nature of how
that happened. Now, there was some type of social media
app that was used. The police are not very specific.

(01:02:50):
You can bet that this is going to come out
through more court hearings. They are, you know, looking for
other folks as well who may be involved. This is
this situation. The greater situation is something that, like I said,
is has happened across the country. Police for years a
couple of last couple of years have been reporting an
increase in a number of folks who are organizing using

(01:03:11):
dating apps to set up victims innocent victims for robbery
and sometimes has done a gunpoint. Sometimes people are killed
and in many cases people don't report being robbed. This
situation had happened in Coco through this dating app ended
in a tragedy. So that's what we absolutely do know.

(01:03:33):
And when I talked to the grandmother, she thought that
perhaps he was going to help a pregnant woman or
someone else who might have been in need at that point.
So until we hit more from the attorney, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
But I'm trying to get us as graft that was going.
Was the thirty year old on controlling on the on
the internet or is there somebody else who's sent him
over there who set him up?

Speaker 10 (01:03:56):
Exactly? It sounds like there was someone else who was
who was in communication with the thirty year old man.
And then once the thirty year old signal that he
was in the neighborhood, whoever that person X was, they
communicated with the thirteen year old who then went to
the truck and for whatever reason, shot him in the
torso the person's wallet was found there other information. The

(01:04:20):
truck was still there.

Speaker 8 (01:04:21):
You know.

Speaker 10 (01:04:22):
It was a nice truck from what I understand. And
that's that's where we are at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
So let me jump ahead quick. There is some questions
for you, Jeff. Pression was the pression black white male, female,
black and male young man, black and male? So another
black Quessian shot this thirteen year old child because he thought.
We don't know why he shot him fast first, but

(01:04:47):
they've made on so obviously it's probably a gay dating side,
right if we're gonna put that together, can we say.

Speaker 10 (01:04:53):
We don't know for we don't know for sure. We
can we can make inferences, but we want to be
careful of that until we go to do to hear it.
So the thirteen year old shot the thirty year old
and and killed. The police caught him, they had the
cell phone. They got him to just basically admit that
he fired the weapon. He says it was accidental.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Wow.

Speaker 10 (01:05:14):
Interesting, And I don't have any evidence that the thirty
year old knew the thirteen year old at any point
outside of.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
This gotcha twenty five at the top. Then Mark checking
in from Houston Ice on line. Want I want you
to speak to Jeff grand Rise in Markey on with
Jeff Gallup.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Well grand Rise and my brothers. Good morning, y'all doing
all right this morning?

Speaker 10 (01:05:37):
Good morning, doing well yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
Yes, sir, I guess sir, sir, this is my favorite topic.
I'm glad you bring it out, these type of caches
on our young men.

Speaker 8 (01:05:47):
And at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
You know, remember that show, it was a Kincher president
and the white man was going in, and you know
then he was catching the white man out. We can
get some kind of catchup predators coming in our communities.
But as far as the thirteen year old boy, he
said he accident. It was an accident. Uh. And I
know they say, well, you think he's gonna get life

(01:06:10):
in prison he's facing now he's not facing life in
prison because the Supreme Court ain't gonna allow that because
he's done the page of eighteen. So we can't do nothing,
you know, whatever it is. He would be out a
support parole. They can't lock him up, and they can't
give him a death feelmy. So that's that's our question
for him. But we need to investigate it because that's
in our community, that's our kids that we need to realize.

(01:06:32):
To investigate what a thirty year old man in the community,
you know, in some kind of you know, whatever whoever
it's going.

Speaker 12 (01:06:40):
In over there.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
I'm so sick of this nonsense, this mess man, you
know what I'm saying, And you're trying to be trying
to lock our our brothers up. A thirteen year old
I just don't see that, man. I mean, you're you're
not locking up these young white boys that's running around him,
you know, shooting.

Speaker 12 (01:06:56):
Up these schools.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
Man with these guns. You're trying to rehabilitate them. And Donna,
you know, saved them. You know what I'm saying. But
in the meantime, and we got a we got man,
we got a predator. I wish they had catch a
predator when when e f Stein and Trump was young,
So you catch them, son, I'm doing doing what they're doing.
It's just a lot of mess going on here in America, man.

(01:07:17):
But at the end of the day, I appreciate this
story that you're given. It was more man, I'll talk
about that. In Houston, I called, I talked Charlton's I
talked to a whole lot of people, man, and this
one almost try to stay on this thirteen year old boy, man,
because I really want to see what the facts he is.
Because somebody was committing the crime before even accidentting they
killed this young boy. That's a huge issue with me.

Speaker 10 (01:07:41):
So thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
I appreciate him for bringing out Thank you, carl.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
All right, thanks man. Also got to tweet jeff'son so
they agree with the young young man for protecting himself
and thirty you old for protecting himself. But the question, Jeffy,
because you said you spoke to his grandparents, Uh, where's
his parents? Where's mom and dad? And all this story?

Speaker 10 (01:08:00):
They live in the area. His grandmother lives in the area.
She raised him. And I want to make some some
clarifications here. Number one. Number one, we're talking about a
thirteen year old who is armed with a weapon that
he's not supposed to have. We're talking about a thirteen
year old who is in the act of responding to
whoever's behind the scenes, right, And I'm not trying to

(01:08:20):
lay guilt or anything like that. I'm just putting out
the facts. And then you have a thirty year old
who doesn't know who he's communicating with, according to the police,
who is using a legal dating app. And here's something
that goes deeper into the community. How many people are
using these dating apps to get together with other people.

(01:08:41):
That's not illegal unless you're talking about deliberately targeting an
underage child. And there's no evidence at all of any
of that happening here. But you have in any community,
any given community, and you know Miami Oh my god.
You know Atlanta. You know, any given community, these social
media apps that whether it's targeting women or gay men

(01:09:05):
or whoever they're being used, they're they're getting people, uh,
who are who are coming together? And yes, there are
some victims of crime, and sometimes it's the people who
are looking for companionship in whatever way, they're being set
up and they're being robbed. That is a common thread
happening across this country right now.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
And Jeff, the thirteen year old, he's still is he
still being hell? Has he been released to his parents yet?

Speaker 10 (01:09:32):
Uh? My understanding is that he is. He is going
to be held at the Bravard County Jail because they
have they have a section where they hold juveniles who
commit who are who are accused of committing violent crime.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Yeah, because the concern is that we really don't know
that all the facts. I know, this is one of
the stories you're working on and find out if he
was if he's the real victim. You know, it's probably
defending himself and we don't know if the man made
advances of him or whatever. Uh that.

Speaker 10 (01:10:05):
I do not know now because in Florida, because he
was a juvenile, there are a lot of facts that are
not readily available, but at this point that the State
Attorney's office has made the decision to pursue him as
an adult in court. In other words, he's going to
go He's going to go to trial, according to the
State Attorney's office, face a murder charge, and whatever the
jury decides in terms of convicting him or quitting him,

(01:10:28):
that will happen at that point. If he's convicted, yes,
he does face up to life in prison. Now it
is up to the judge as to how to administer
that under the state statute. But yeah, this is this
is this is this young man's life, and we need
to ask the question also, who was it that gave
him guidance to go and do this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
If that is the case, where did it come Had
a gun come from? Yeah, mak question about the.

Speaker 8 (01:10:55):
Gun right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Aition right now?

Speaker 10 (01:11:01):
And that is a question. I don't know at this
point if they have the gun in their possession, but
see he admitted that he shot the gun. If they
don't have it, you know, maybe a good attorney could
come in and say, hey, this is we can't do this.
Maybe a good attorney will come in here and say
let's draw out this confession. All of that comes into play.
But we do know they found the shellcasing. I don't

(01:11:23):
know about the weapon at this point, but obviously police
are asking a lot of questions about this case, just
like you, about how did these two parties come together
and who is that mysterious third party that was communicating
between the two of them. Now, in some communities they
called this catfishing, where you think you're talking to one

(01:11:45):
person and there is actually someone else. Is that is
that the case here? We know that even with tender apps,
dating apps, you know, young men think they're going to
meet a young lady and actually when they get to
the hotel, there are three guys waiting in the hotel
room and they robin. So that does happen happens a
lot actually, But sir, well.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
Sir, I would like to say when when these guns,
that these this thirteen year old boy got hold to
us a gun. We need to figure out every time
these young men are anybody that's out of committing crimes
with these guns. Why the guns are still out on
the street, but they have the devictims of me, the
men the times in jail, but the guns are still

(01:12:28):
out on the street. And I like the way you
said when even if they charge him with a with
as an adult, I want the people to really understand
I'm a pair of legal, pair of legal down here
in Houston. There's no way that the judge, don't judge,
can't do nothing to him, ain't nothing to judge and
do The jury generally just are finding guilty. But you

(01:12:49):
got to the Supreme Court won't allow him, will not
get life in prison. He's half and he's qualified for
uh for parole, but he can't get to death feeling
because he's done the age of eighteen. So yes, they
can do whatever they want to do.

Speaker 12 (01:13:05):
They can't. They can't.

Speaker 3 (01:13:06):
They can't tell him you'll never come out. You get
what I'm saying, that's never going to happen.

Speaker 10 (01:13:11):
I'm anger on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Move on book. We thank you for recalled. We got
the gist of what you were saying. I thank you
for because there's some other issues, some other stories Jeff's
working on too. The last time we talked about the
arrest of the shooting of a two year old two
year old Jeff, where's that?

Speaker 10 (01:13:25):
Yes, yes, that the status of that case right now,
it's believe it or not there is no public discussion
about that case, and so let's to refresh your audience.
This was a two year old girl. She was at
home with her grandparents in South Melbourne. This is in Melbourne,
Florida on the Space Coast. Her name is her name

(01:13:48):
was Blessing Lightner. Blessing Lightner, and basically someone got into
that home. There were several people in the home. They
shot the grandmother, shot the other person that was in there,
the man, and then they fatally shot this child in
the home. This happened in August August twenty ninth, and

(01:14:13):
the two adults who are identified as the grandparents, they
were critically injured, but they recovered. The investigation has been ongoing.
Everything from discussion of potential potential gain involvement to just
maybe someone who was just angry with the parents or
whoever has been out there on the table. But the
police are not putting any more information out about this case.

(01:14:37):
It's highly unusual that in a community you would have
someone get into the home, kill a two year old
child and then leave, and then you have little to
nothing said about it from the police. Not an update
a month later, not an update two months later, three
months later, there's absolutely nothing. And I don't know how

(01:14:58):
many communities would actually bear that burden to allow that
quiet to remain. But in this particular case, you don't
have anyone going out to say anything. You don't have
anyone protesting, you don't have anyone asking questions publicly outside
of the media. And right now, this two year old girl,
she's you know, she's she's a memory at this point,

(01:15:19):
you know, and there's nothing else. No one has been arrested,
no justice for her, according to her her parents.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
That is so sad. A two year old baby just
killed and nobody says anything. Nobody's concerned. What does black
lives matter at all? You know, on all sides. At
some point, we just got to do better as the people. Man,
We just this, I don't know, we just got to
do better. Two year old a baby hasn't hasn't had
a chance to live yet, and and somebody takes her out.

(01:15:49):
But that's not the point though. The point is nobody
saying anything, Jeff. And if I'm glad you're sticking on
the story and digging more to find out what's what's
gonna happen and how it all started, because everybody seems
to be climbing up. You know the nose snitch rules.
It's no and you know somebody knows somebody who knows
something and refuses to speak, And that is so, that
is so sad that this baby has lost her life

(01:16:10):
and people won't won't, won't talk. Now, just think of
it. It got to be your child, you know, your grandchild
or somebody. It doesn't even have to be that. But
another black child's life has been snuffed out and nobody
wants to speak. Wow, that's that's a hard one for
me periods.

Speaker 10 (01:16:26):
Yeah, it is. Uh, it's it's hard to watch. And
you know, I send in a public records requests to
the police department. Uh, every other now at this point
is slowed down. I'm still asking questions, you know, about
whether or not there's a game connection, is there anything new?
And the answer I get back is it's an ongoing investigation.
Nothing else is. Nothing else is popped up.

Speaker 12 (01:16:48):
Now.

Speaker 10 (01:16:48):
They could have an arrest next week. I don't know.
But at this point, you're not informing the public and
the parents are not making any more uh public pronunciations.
You know, no protests or had been organized or anything
like that. So there are a lot of questions swirling
around the circumstances. Exactly what did happen to this babe?
Who knew about it? And who knows uh the person

(01:17:11):
that may have carried this out. This is horrific act.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Sure is. And I'm glad that you're on the case
and digging more and trying to get more information about
this child's death, Jeff, because that's that's that's so unconscionable.
Just you know, family, we just got to do better.
Let me just say that period of those who were
involving that kind of lifestyle, you just got to do better.
We just we got enough promise with the other folks
that we're taking each other's lives, especially a baby. That's

(01:17:37):
that's you know, I can't say more about that, but
I got a tweet question for you. Go ahead before
I get question.

Speaker 10 (01:17:44):
Oh no, I was gonna say. It goes back to
what your guests were talking about, which I and I
called the tail end of the conversation. It's about the
economy of love and uh, you know, just figuring out
how can we be more uh in love with the
people that we say we are, and how can we
be more in love with our neighbors. What can we
do to serve how can we respond to some of

(01:18:04):
these things that are going on. You know, I had
that discussion the other day with someone. It was it
came down to the idea of values, shared values. It
just doesn't seem as if we as a community share
the same values anymore. And take you back on what
he was saying, Yeah, you think that. I don't know.

(01:18:27):
The community is so divided between different groups. You have
this group pursuing this this issue, that group pursuing that issue,
and overall, who's pursuing their neighbor in terms of let's love,
let's let's learn our history, let's share with one another,
let's be open to one another. Just like your guest said,

(01:18:47):
you know, that's the whole idea of community. And that's
the whole idea of community, you know. So it's I
don't know if it's intentional, I don't know, but.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Check the news and they got Tweeter tweeter center question
for his wonder if it's true the sheriff down there
in Florida, if they catch folks selling drugs out of
a home, he's going to bulldoze the home and demolish
the home. Where the drugs are sold from. So I'll
let you respond to that tweet when we get back. Family,
Youtubo can join our conversation with Jeff Gallup. He's an
investigative reporter works out of the Space Ghost in Central Florida.

(01:19:21):
You can reach them at eight hundred four or five
zero seventy eight seventy six. I'll take your phone calls
after which, and Grand Rising family, thanks for rolling with
us on this Tuesday morning. Here fourteen minutes away from
the top of the are with our guest that Jeff Gallup.
Jeff is an investigative reporter. It's a journalist works out
of Central Florida for Florida Today. Most of you know
USA Today, well you say Today is the child of

(01:19:41):
Florida Today. And Jeff works for that company right there.
And there's a lot of groundwork looking into events that
take place in our communities in central Florida. Before we
go back to you there, let me just remind you.
Coming up later this morning, we're going to speak with
Grill Baba Lamumba. Baba Lamumba works out of the Moja
House in Washington, d C. These who are Council of
Elders come together and great discussions, and then they come

(01:20:01):
on the radio and want to hear what we think about.
What they discussed is always some thought provoking topics that
he brings to the table. So he's going to do
that later this morning, and later this week you're gonna
hear from chematologists that Tony Browner Tony's got a brand
new book coming out, and also metaphysician and herbalist Doctor B.
Doctor B also has a book. Both of them are
going to be here later this week. So if you
are in Baltimore, make sure you keep your radio locked

(01:20:23):
in tight on ten ten WLB, or if you're in
the DMV, we're on fourteen fifty WOL. Jeff, go back
to Jeff again that tweet about there's a sheriff for
a local law enforcement official in your era that is
threatening to bulldoze that just tear down homes. That he
claims that if the drugs are being sold out of
it is that true?

Speaker 10 (01:20:43):
Yes, Actually, in fact it's our share of Levard County
Sheriff Wayne Ivy, who is not a stranger to controversy.
You've seen any number of news items that have popped
up over the years regarding him. He's a tough talking
sheriff here from Levard County, and he he goes before
the camera and he talks about a lot of issues.

(01:21:04):
He issued a threat of force against protesters back in June.
You remember when they had No King protests that were
happening all over the country. He said in the state
of Florida. You know, hey, look, if you aim your
car toward a deputy, or you do this, or you
threaten anyone, you could end up dead, you know. And
in fact, I think the term he used was graveyard dead,

(01:21:26):
and that created a lot of controversy. But like I said,
you still stranger to that. So he has a new program,
and if you listen carefully you're here, you look at
the acronym, you'll know what I'm talking about. He has
what he calls the Sheriff's High Intensity Target List, and
that deals with flop you know. Put that together, you know,

(01:21:46):
and he deals with targeting flop houses or what we
would call trap houses. You know, that were you know,
you have a lot of nuisance calls, different things like that,
But there is a legal process. You just can't go
at this point in time in the American history, and
Bulldover a home. You have to have a legal process
of combination. Uh, you know, the house has to be condemned.

(01:22:08):
There has to be you know that there has to
be a reason, legal reason for you to go in
and do it. And he's done his second home. And
you know, he took down his second home I think
a couple of weeks ago, and uh, you know, just
old dilapidated homes where you have a lot of people
going in and smoking, you know, crack or doing drugs.
And we do have that problem here in Brevard County,

(01:22:29):
just like getting any other community in America. Except he's
actually taking where he sees his action against the people, uh,
who are who are doing this. He's tearing down those homes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
So he's not actually targeting homes where you know, someone
may be selling a couple of joints out of family
and the family doesn't even know that the child is
selling weed out of the house. He's not targeting those homes.
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 10 (01:22:51):
No, because if that would happen in America, I mean,
how many homes across the country would come down Tomorrow?
He's come down tomorrow, you know what I'm saying. So, no,
he's actually talking about houses where you have dozens of complaints,
where you have people calling ninety one to one constantly,
and there's a process of you know, where the house
has been condemned or code enforcement is working to come

(01:23:13):
in and say, hey, we got to clear this property.
That's what he's talking about. That's why he calls it
again his sheriff high Intensity target list.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
Okay, okay, Yeah, So.

Speaker 10 (01:23:27):
Any push back though some funny situation, Any.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
Pushback to Jeff from the residents about that, Well, they are.

Speaker 10 (01:23:37):
I believe it or not, just like you have, you know,
the National Guard going into some communities across the country.
The neighbors are surprisingly you know, they're happy with it.
They see these homes as problems and they want them gone.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
Yeah, but but bull does into what does that do?
The crime just shifts to another area, doesn't it.

Speaker 10 (01:23:57):
I think what you're talking to, what you're talking about,
it is like the image of a bulldozer and the
Sheriff's office out there announcing that they're tearing down a house.
It's it's done more to cast out you know, light
that that hey, we are actively doing something. I think
this is a process that happens anyway in most communities
wherehouses been condemned, you will have after a couple of

(01:24:20):
years a bulldozer come by. I think in this case,
their cameras out there taking a picture. And you know
a sheriff who likes to talk about fighting crime taking
advantage of it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
Yeah, well she should go for crime and not bulldozing homes.
I mean, what good does it do. It's a bulldoze
at home, and I guess the crack deal just moved
to another home, that's all that. Why don't it go
and track down the drug dealers? Wouldn't that be more
effective that you know, there's a home there that that's
off the tax base whoever owns it or not, that's
you know, that's money that's for the county or whatever

(01:24:53):
the era that that sheriff is in.

Speaker 10 (01:24:57):
It's an interesting thought because you know, people do gravitate
to where the drugs are when they're in that particular lifestyle.
You know, what does it do? You have to ask
yourself that because you look at the homes that are condemned,
they literally are condemned because of cold enforcement violations. Can't
anyone live in a home you know where their holes

(01:25:18):
in the floor, holes in the walls, there's no toilet,
no running water, no electricity, you know, probably not, so
it is what it is. Just better enforcement on drugs,
you know, might be the solution. But in this particular case,
they're going with a multi prong approach.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
Eight minutes away from the top of our family, I
guess this is Jeff Gallup. Jeff is an investigative reporter
in central Florida, and these are some of the stories
that he's working on. He's looking into these stories, old
school journalism, just going there and with a pencil on
a pad, and you're trying to figure out what's going
on then report it back to us in many of
these stories that happen in our communities. But Jeff, you've
got another project that you're working on. Also, you're trying

(01:26:02):
to get books into the hands of our young people.
Can you share that with the family?

Speaker 10 (01:26:07):
Absolutely? So, you know. And this is because we work
with a couple of journalists and I think you know
one we basically here in Bavard County, we recognized an
issue a couple of years ago where our history wasn't
being told or it was being censored. So we decided
to raise funds to purchase books or have people donate

(01:26:28):
new books to us. We call it the Little Black
Book Drive. We're on Facebook. We do have that communication
out there and we've been going. Next year will be
our fifth year. We've distributed over two thousand books to
youth here along the Space Coast, primarily books that deal
with black history, that deal with stem, that deal with

(01:26:49):
you know, the classics, the classics of black literature, you know,
and the authors as well, Maya angelou An any any
folks like that that we can get out to the kids.
Illustrated books that tell our story and there are these
are books that go to not only black kids, but
to all kids, because black history, as we know, is
American history.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
Yeah, but at the same time, your governor has made
a move to eliminate and your president has made a
move to eliminate teachings of black history out of our schools.
Is this a fight for you or are you getting
any pushback from doing this?

Speaker 10 (01:27:26):
Jeff, I personally have not gotten any pushback. We've been
told that there were people who were not necessarily happy
with what we're doing. Well, listen, like Kwanza, like celebrating
any other day or doing any other thing. We do
not need permission from the government at this stage in
our American history to go into our communities and distributing books.

(01:27:49):
We don't need permission. We have everything that we need
in terms of the energy, the wherewith all to go
out and ask for people in the community to donate.
Don't need permission to tell our stories, uh, in our community.
So the state may do what it wants to do.
You know, we're a nonpartisan. We can't get into that.
But what we can do is get into the local programs,

(01:28:13):
the kindergartens, wherever we need to go, wherever we're invited
to distribute these.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
Books sticks away from the time Vay Jeff Gallup and
investigative reporter in Central Flaida and he's got a book
drive going on the Little Black Book Drive. I think
it's a little black book drive. I think that's tit
of but but but Jeff, and that that brings the
question a little black book drive when when people hear that,
are you getting support from the white community, getting support

(01:28:38):
from the Latino community, because you know, sometimes they see
the word black and they run the other way. Jeff
still there. We lost Jeff. Hopefully we haven't lost Jeff
because the interesting his book Drive is Yeah, Kevin, see
if you can get him back and then we'll find
out if people are listening to it could help us

(01:29:01):
get these books into the hands of our youngsters, because
it is a problem not just in Florida, but it's
in Texas, uh, some of these states that they've they've
taken these books out of the libraries, out of the schools,
and our children they're going to get a chance to
find it about their heroes. So, Jeff, my question to
you was, are you getting support because it's a little

(01:29:21):
black book, driver, that's a tile of it. So are
you getting support from the Latino community, from the white community?
Are they supportive? But they just said, oh, that's some
black stuff and push it to the side. How's that?

Speaker 10 (01:29:34):
Let me tell you? Let me tell you And and
it goes back to what we mentioned before in the
previous segment about the community and supported people being vocal
and you know the lack of support here or the
you know, you see more support there. We have gotten
support from a cross section of people. We've had one
church in particular that gave a great donation that really

(01:29:57):
helped us start. In the first year. We have seen
donors and I'll be honest, a lot of our white
supporters are intense about supporting this effort to get out
books to our community. A lot of people. We walked
into a black bookstore. We went out to an event,

(01:30:18):
you know, because we believe in cooperative economics. We went
there and there was a fundraiser and we had everyone
in the bookstore black, A lot of a lot of
black folks who were donating, donating, donating, must and it
was very successful. We had one white donort come in
in there sheet she said, hey, look, take my credit card,
get every book you can up to this limit. And

(01:30:40):
we were stunned. Right, but we've seen generosity from a
cross section of people. I will tell you, Outside of
that one particular church and a few pastors, we have
not received this much support from some of our local
religious centers. I understand, right, everyone has her own particular
mission and their own thing. But other than that, we're

(01:31:02):
getting pennies here, dollars their big support there. We get
shipment to books from some supporters. It really has helped.
Now we're not talking about just regular books. We're talking
about new books, New York Times bestselling books.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
All I hold that though right there we step aside
from a moment, we got to check the traffick and
weather one more time in our different season. Won't come back.
Tell us the kind of books that you're getting, and
if we can help, if you guys need some help,
you know, getting books to you over if publishers are
helping or donating books, or if we can't donate books,
maybe we can donate some money then you guys could
buy the books. I want you explain all that when
we get back. Two away from the top of the family,

(01:31:37):
Jeff Gallup is I guess there's an investigative reporter out
of Central Florida and you've got a black book drive
going on, trying to help our young folks. What are
your thoughts? Eight hundred and four five zero seventy eight
to seventy six to speak to Jeff and we'll take
your phone calls next and grand Rising family, and thanks
for making us part of your morning, Richel. I guess
this morning right now is a Jeff Gallup. Jeff is
an investigative reporter. Is a journalist working out of Central

(01:31:59):
Florida and moment tell going to speak with Baba Lamumba
who works out of Emoja House in Washington, DC. But Jeff,
before we left, you tell us about the Little Black
Book Drive and how folks can help you guys get
some more books.

Speaker 10 (01:32:11):
Okay, well, yeah, definitely. One of the best ways would
be to communicate with the two bookstores that we work
with here in Bavard County. And you know, I know
I'm talking fast, but Essence of Knowledge Bookstore, which is
in Cocoa, Florida, you can look them up. They have
their web page, that's Essence of Knowledge Bookstore. Let them
know that you're making a purchase for the Little Black

(01:32:32):
Book Drive. Same thing with the Onyx Bookstore in Downtown Melbourne,
Historic Downtown Melbourne. You can reach those folks. You can
also if you want information about what we do, email me.
You can email me and I'm going to give you
my email. Gallop light Horse, G A L l O
P Jay as in Jeff d Is and David forty

(01:32:53):
two like Jackie Robinson at gmail dot com, and of
course the old fashion method. We have azel account. We
also have cash app Gallop Gallops are us like toys,
r US G A L l O P S, r
U S and anything helps pennies like I said, dollars,
anything helps, and we do mention you on our Facebook

(01:33:14):
page if you would like for us to do that.
We have been around going on five years now. This
is something that we're doing freely. No one's getting paid.
There's no money going to anyone, but all of the
books that we get we give back out to the community,
to the children who are in our community.

Speaker 1 (01:33:34):
So these are children's books that you need, not books
that necessarily aimed at adults.

Speaker 10 (01:33:40):
We go from age one to eighteen, so there are
some books that are more appropriate for young adults. Let
me give you an idea, like, for example, we have
children's children's books like I Love My Hair Right and
that's written I think by Natasha Tarpley. Books like that,
everything from that to the autobiography of Malcolm. We have
the traditional version by Alex Haley. We also have one

(01:34:04):
that's for young teens. We have illustrated graphic novels because
what we're also sadly finding is that many of the
kids who come to our tables some don't know how
to read, believe it or not, But we also know
that if they have ownership in a book that has
illustrations or with words, sometimes that inspires them to want

(01:34:24):
to read, to want to do better. I can't tell
you all of the many stories that we've had, but
I've given out books and I've seen kids look at it,
I don't know how to read, and then you catch
them thirty minutes later reading through an illustrated book or
looking at the pictures and being excited and asking someone
to help them to read. I've actually seen that happen.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
So well, menk you this, Jeff. How do you make
you feel when a young black child says to you,
I don't know how to read.

Speaker 8 (01:34:51):
It hurts.

Speaker 10 (01:34:52):
It hurts because my mom had me reading by the
time I was three years old, and I took it
so for granted that I stopped reading, and she she
basically forced me. She forced me to go to the library.
She said, don't come back unless you have books. And
I thought I was being cute by coming back with
illustrated books, and I just got hooked. So when I
hear a child, and I mean there was one beautiful

(01:35:14):
young girl, she probably was in first or second grade,
had been kept back and she just said, sadly, I
don't know how to read, so I don't know what
to get. And we talked to her and we you know,
and I told her, you know, asked her name, called
her name. My wife was right there as well, and
we just looked at her and we just told her,
you know, take this book because maybe one day you
could be like her. You know, look at her. She

(01:35:35):
looks like you. She's doing all types of things, this
Katanji Jackson, and she's a Supreme Court justice and one
day you could sit on the Supreme Court. And she
looked at us like, oh, she got excited. She took
that book. And who knows what she's doing with it now,
But it's hers who knows. If she connects with the
name Katanji Jackson, the Supreme Court justice, who knows. But

(01:36:00):
that was one of those moments I've seen another kid.
I gave him a book about Martineter King. He put
aside the books that I gave him or that he
picked out, and he jumped for joy with his mom
because that's what he really wanted. I told him, take
all of the books and take this book on doctor King.
And do you know that every time we have a
book drive, every other time he shows up and he's

(01:36:20):
getting more free books and he says, do you remember me?
And I sit there and I go, yes, Malachi, I
remember you. So it does something to me to see
our kids read gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
Eight after the top of the August has calling from Atlanta.
He's online two wants to speak to you, August grand
Rising with Jeff Gallup.

Speaker 11 (01:36:43):
Grand Rising Family. I have a question. I don't know
if this gonna make much sense for the hope that does.
I was thinking about what if they just take the
pass the bill, taking.

Speaker 8 (01:36:55):
The drug money that come from drugs, right, and you a.

Speaker 11 (01:36:59):
Drug mone to buy computers to upgrade the schools. It
can be from that state, that city, or I don't
know how the money would be distributed, but that would
be a great idea, I think. And I may be wrong,
and once since this may curve a lot of the

(01:37:22):
drug use or deals, if I may say it that way,
and I'll take I listen to you guys off the air. Thanks.
I'd love to show you guys. Awesome job.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Thanks all, Gus. Jeff.

Speaker 10 (01:37:37):
You already have programs like that forfeiture programs where they
go in and they sees cash or vehicles or different
things from people who are involved in criminal complaints, and
some of that money is put back into the community
or not. I know, there is one food program, summer
food program for use in South Melbourne, that same neighborhood

(01:37:58):
I was talking about with a young young two year
old was killed. They have a summer food program where
they get funds from the police departments and some of
that comes from, you know, forfeiture funds or other funds
that they have laying around. The federal government regulates a
lot of that and tell they tell them this is
what you can use it for. You can buy equipment,
or you can do this, or you can do that.

(01:38:19):
It's heavily regulated, so it's not as simple as say
I catch someone on the street, or you know, I
go to Wall Street and I arrest somebody with you know,
four hundred thousand dollars worth of cocaine and cash, and
then I take that cash and give it to the community.
Is not as simple as that. Everybody is, you can imagine,
wants a piece of that financial tie. So it is
heavily regulated.

Speaker 1 (01:38:40):
Got you, Jeff, before we let you go give us
your information again. How folks if they want to donate
books or donate some cash to help you guys buy
some more books about children, how can they do that?

Speaker 10 (01:38:52):
You can email again. You can email me Gallop G
A L L O P JB forty two at gmail
dot com. Or you can zell me three two one
nine one seven four six four one. That's my number.
You can text as well, and then also Gallops are
us dollar sign G A L L O P S

(01:39:12):
R U S. And we're based here in the central
Florida on Space Coast.

Speaker 1 (01:39:17):
Thanks Jeff, and thank you. If we're looking at for our.

Speaker 10 (01:39:20):
Children, thank you, Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:39:23):
All right, Jeff Galf's investigative reporter. I guess I balance
is the work that he does, all these grory stories
that he has to cover and then you know it
does a book drive sort of gives you some some
mental balance of this is his job. But thank you again, Jeff.
Even minutes after the top of your family, it's turned
our attention now to uh Baba la Mumba. Baba Lamumba
is one of our grills. Works out of a moja

(01:39:44):
house in Washington, DC. It's the council of elders come
together and they have all these discussions that they think
and some thought evoking discussions and then Baba la Mumba
brings them to the Radio Grand Rising Baba la Mumba.

Speaker 12 (01:39:55):
Welcome back, Aaron Rising, Brother, We're glad to be back.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
Discussing that. One of the discussions you guys had at
Emoja House resolving the ambivalence that we have about ourselves.
That's the topic. Can you explain what you mean when
you say that.

Speaker 12 (01:40:13):
Well, you know, we living in this society means that
we are indoctrinated by negative feelings as well as positive
feelings about being black person. No one escapes it. No
black person escapes the negative feelings about their own race
that comes by virtuous simply living in this society. We're

(01:40:35):
taught negative things in school, We're taught negative things in
the media. We're taught negative things all our lives. I
was listening to as a brother who was before me,
and he mentioned a sister wrote a book about hair. Well,
you know, we're taught that nappy hair is bad hair,

(01:40:58):
you know, and many of us feel that way that
even though nappy hair works better as hair, it keeps
you warmer in the winter time and keeps the sun
off you in the summertime, and it functions much better.
It can more easily be styled and shaped, and so
you know, we have the right we should see nappy

(01:41:20):
hair as good hair and straight hair as bad hair. Uh.
You know, but we are taught that we are in
some ways inferior as a people. That's that just comes
with living in this society. That's not so much a
function of you know, we're taught it in schools. We're

(01:41:41):
taught it in church, We're taught it across the board.
That we are in fear. So we are none of
us escape the notion of our families. For example, you know,
when our mother presses our hair and tells us that
we you know, our press our press your hair because
we want you to have good airs that are bad air.

(01:42:01):
That's a message of inferiority. It's the message of so
everything in this society. And you know, we have to
face this. Ambivalence is something that we all have about ourselves,
about our people, and it gets in the way of
so many different things. It gets in the way of
our progress, whether whether we realize it or not, it's

(01:42:23):
a major impediment. It's sort of the fight we have
with ourselves about our identity, you know, you know, our
identity being the culture and the other people who identify
with uh. In this in the in the society which
we live. And so I think that the reason I
wanted to talk about our ambivalence is that I wanted

(01:42:45):
to bring our problems to bounce to the ground for
about ourselves. How do we work with uh and understand
what it is we have to overcome that we all
have and we all are somewhat subject to You know,
we're all subject to the impact of our negative feelings

(01:43:07):
about ourselves. We none of us. I don't care how
conscious you are, or how much history you know, or
how much culture you practice. You still have these feelings
and you still have to confront them, and they still
get in the way of our progress.

Speaker 1 (01:43:25):
Let me tell me to ask you this though about Blona.
Isn't it a good thing to have this ambivalence at
least at least you have a contrasting issues to deal
with instead of just one.

Speaker 12 (01:43:37):
Well, no, because you have no way to resolve them.
You know. In other words, the problem is the negative
feelings outweigh the positive feelings. So you know, we end
up with most of us end up with more negative
feelings about ourselves, and we have positive feelings about ourselves.
So the only way you're going to reconcile. That is,
have a concept or an identity of yourself that precedes

(01:43:59):
your captive the precedure subjugation. In other words, if you
don't have an African based frame of reference, then you
don't have any basis for having a frame of reference
outside of a white frame of reference, which is totally
dominated by your dominate, primarily by your negative image of yourself.
So we walk around with these white frames of references.

(01:44:21):
Let me give you a good example. I was looking
at the uh on Howard's television station. There the story
about Thurgood Marshal and so I can talking about his life,
and one of the things that got mentioned was that
the question of integration has what what do we feel about?

(01:44:44):
You know, the question of integration? In other words, when
we when we became integrated, we lost our communities. You know,
the minute they allowed us to shop in their stores,
We went to their stores and stuff shocked. What happened
to our stores? Well, they had to close down the
minute that we were were What did integration do to us?

(01:45:09):
Positively and negatively? We all understand. I hear people talking
about it all the time. What we lost through integration.
Now you know the way it's usually put is what
we gain versus what we lost? In other words, there
is a clear recognition that we lost something, you know,
but there's not an answer to that question. How do

(01:45:30):
you compare what we lost what we gained? Well, the
fact is that we lost our community. That's what we lost.
We lost our relationship with each other. Our community is
essentially not necessarily our neighborhoods, because we think of community
as neighborhoods, but our community is really our connection to

(01:45:51):
each other. We integration undermined our connection with each other.
But the reason why it was so successful at undermining
our connection with each other is because our connection with
each other was based on a white frame of reference.
We didn't have an African flame around. We didn't have
anything to say what we were and what we appreciate

(01:46:12):
prior to our subjugation.

Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
Hold us aught right there, Babba Lama. We gotta take
a short bad when we come back. Though, you mentioned
how we lost, how do we lose something we didn't
know that we had. Hope I'm making sense and I'll
let you respond to that. Family YouTube can join. Our
conversation with our guest is one of our grills. Babla
la Mumba. You can reach him at eight hundred four
or five zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take
your phone calls. Next and Grand Rising family, thanks to

(01:46:38):
staying with us this Tuesday morning with our guest to
Babla la Mumba from a Moja house in Washington, DC.
As the Council of Elders have these great discussions and
they bring him on the radio through Babla la Mumba
before we left, he says there's some ambivalents about us
as a people, there's some negative and some positive, and
he mentioned the civil rights women with integration or should
do we stayed by ourselves? And now Monday morning quarterback

(01:46:59):
and say that you know we went for integration, which
is wrong. But Baba Lameumba, if you don't know what
you have, how can you feel like you've lost it?
How can you feel like you made a mistake. It's
kind of like being a relationship. A person's gone and
you miss them and because you didn't know what you
really had.

Speaker 12 (01:47:14):
Well, your question points out the central problem. If you
don't know, if your frame of reference does not include
you prior to your subjugation, if you only consider your
identity as a sension a function of your subjugation. Then
you are lost. Then you can't have a positive feeling

(01:47:35):
give yourself. Your ambivalence is permanent the question. But if
your ambivalence is permanent, then you were going to stay confined.
You're going to stay in a state of subjugation. You're
going to only appreciate levels different levels of that subjugation.
You're never going to have any sense of what freedom
actually is. Freedom is independence. Freedom is your ability to

(01:47:59):
operate in UH as a as a group and to
make decisions that are are are are important, instrumental, and
invaluable to your group. It's the right to protect your
own interest. If you have no value, if you have
no experience that says you're capable of that or that

(01:48:20):
should be the case, then you are exactly confined to
your level subjugation. And that that is the That is
what our ambivalence leads to. It leads us to a
permanent state of a frame of reference that only includes
various forms of our subjugation. When we talk about, for example,

(01:48:42):
a civil rights movement, which we define in this society
as our freedom movement, no cases, you know, when we
talk about it free we talk about I heard people
talk about Malcolm XN call him a civil rights leader,
which is total nonsense. Garvy isn't the civil rights leader.
Where independence is not civil rights. Civil rights is simply

(01:49:05):
the capacity to be accepted and into the society in
which you are have that subjugated you, you know. In
other words, it's a it's a process by which we
try to successfully assimilate into a society. But what about

(01:49:25):
the fact that we were stolen? What about the fact
that our culture was with from us? What about the
fact that our identity and that our feelings about ourselves
are negative precisely because of that experience, precisely because we
were we were stripped of our capacity to have a
frame of reference which includes our independence, which includes our

(01:49:49):
elevation as a people, which include which excludes our strength
as a people. We if we're not trying to increase
the strength of our people visa the other people in
the world, then what are we doing? What is our
freedom movement? Our freedom movement can't be to accept our subjugation.
That's not freedom. That may be important, because it often

(01:50:13):
is important, we have to actually address the pains and
stufferings that we exist in place. That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
But let me in and ask you this question, babyloon.
But when doctor King says he feared that he was integrated,
is people into a burning bush or a burning house?
Or was he being ambivalent?

Speaker 12 (01:50:34):
Men? I mean, I think he was moving in the
right direction. He was beginning to understand that what he
was trying to achieve is not ultimately going to solve
not only the problems of black people, but the problems
of the world. You know, you know, if you simply
want to be a part of a people who who

(01:50:58):
you know, who are in themselves in the path of
self destruction, in the path of harming the world, not
solving the world, because that's what we see. For example,
Donald Trump, I think is a good example of this.
Here's a man who declares that climate change, which is
one of the greatest threats to all of humanity, doesn't exist. Now,

(01:51:21):
how can the man who sits in the most powerful
position in the world talk about the greatest threat to
the world and tell the world that it doesn't even exist,
which means he's not going to do anything about it,
which means that all the disasters that climate change can bring,
he's not going to try to address because he wants

(01:51:42):
to believe the fallacy, the ridiculousness that it's not real. Well,
I mean, what is that an example of what does
that mean?

Speaker 4 (01:51:52):
Why?

Speaker 12 (01:51:53):
That's the burning house? The burning house clearly is burning.
It's clearly in a situation where even our survival and
the world survival depends on us realizing that the direction
of what the society we're trying to be a part
of is self destructive, is bad, is not good, It's

(01:52:14):
not good for us, and it's not good for the
world in which we live in. So we have to
actually work to create an alternative to that, and that
as an alternative that has to come from our culture,
our framework prior to our subjugation, our understanding what it
means to be an after what are understanding what it
means to be a citizen of the world, Our understanding

(01:52:35):
of what it means to have our people in a
stronger position than our people are in now, who are
really we're in a very weak position when it comes
to our power base. Increasing our power base as a
people is the only direction that actually makes sense that
King was alluding to when he said that am I

(01:52:57):
trying to get am I encouraging my people to participate
in a burning house. He was recognizing that, yes, the
house is burning, and it's burning more now than it
was when he said made those statements. What does Donald
Trump mean it? Donald Trump means that the house is
on fire. That's what it means. Doctor King was anticipating

(01:53:22):
that fire with Donald Trump means that the fire is here,
it's burning. This man is creating a situation in which
not only threatens us, threatens the house, as we put it,
but also threatens the world.

Speaker 1 (01:53:37):
Got you twenty eight at the top, markus join us
from Baltimore. I think Mark has a birthday today. He's
on nine one Mark Grand Rising. If it's your birthday, Happy.

Speaker 15 (01:53:46):
Birthday, yeah, Grand Rising, God yeah, seventy one to day.

Speaker 1 (01:53:50):
Carl, Oh, congratulations.

Speaker 10 (01:53:53):
Man, thank you man.

Speaker 15 (01:53:54):
I appreciate it. And Carl, whenever I hear somebody talk
about integration, I think about this. I think about when
when I be watching these pictures, when when when people
lived in the Deep South and you can just be
hung going to brown bathroom and all that kind of stuff.
That's what it was about. It was about desegregation. It

(01:54:16):
wasn't about about integration. We have so many black businesses
and stuff like this. But Malcolm and Martin said. Malcolm said,
we're not outmembered, we out organized. King said, it's not
the loudness of my enemies, it's the sounds of my friends.
And Francis cus wells and gave us the blueprint to

(01:54:40):
self improvement, which which which Farakahn speaks about, and which
he charged Captain Andrews and the Muslim brothers to come
here to Baltimore and and and and and create programs
and stuff like that to teach our young men to
be not kill each other and all that kind of stuff.

(01:55:00):
You know, why can't we do that stuff? You know,
why why do we have to talk about integration all
the time when when it's de segregation and we got
to do better, Like Carl say, we got.

Speaker 12 (01:55:13):
To do better.

Speaker 15 (01:55:14):
That's what Captain and Andrew and the Brook Muslim of
Christian Brothers teacher our brothers and Baltimore.

Speaker 10 (01:55:19):
We got to do better.

Speaker 12 (01:55:21):
Francis chrest Wellsby said that too.

Speaker 10 (01:55:23):
What do you think about that?

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
All right? Thanks? Mark?

Speaker 12 (01:55:28):
Uh, Well, let's put it this way. What is the
frame of reference for doing better? How is us and
the world going to do better? Are we going to
do better for using his model? Are we gonna?

Speaker 5 (01:55:42):
You know?

Speaker 12 (01:55:42):
The reason that we uh, when we were, when we
were offered to integration, the reason why we abandoned those
communities and those those that that we had developed, is
because they were based on copies of him. We we
created communities, which is as copies of him. We didn't
have our own frame of reference. We didn't know Africa.

(01:56:05):
We didn't go back and say, well, what would we do?
You know, in our own context, in our own frame
of reference, what we had. The only way we could
do that, do that successfully is to look at Africa
and to understand who and what we are. We have
to have an African frame of reference in order to
have any sense of what better is and what our

(01:56:28):
own direction is, what our own frame of references. We
can't simply use terms like do better. Well, you know
we were doing well, uh, you know when we when
we use his frame of reference to create communities, we
did a good job at that. But the minute we
got a chance to participate in his communities, we abandon

(01:56:49):
our communities. We we we we we accepted integration as
a greater value, having greater value to us than having
our own, you know, which is what we do with
the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement is based
on a notion that accepting the the participating in and

(01:57:13):
being accepted by the society is our goal. No, our
goal is created a society that makes more sense, a
society that is is more consistent with our traditions, a
society that is based on our frame of reference.

Speaker 1 (01:57:30):
How do we create tama for a second now, Baba
la Mumba mark I, thank you for your call. Babby Lamo.
Let's go back to the integration docta King and the
civil rights leaders back in the sixties. Do you think
they had enough information about who we are that we
could survive in this country just like any other ethnic
group without relying if we because they they survived because

(01:57:51):
they know who they are. Are you saying that the
civil rights this did not know who they who they
were at that particular time, did not know they were African.
That's where they made the integration decision.

Speaker 12 (01:58:02):
Well, they did not understand the value. We had not
developed the understanding of what Now you asked ourselsequence.

Speaker 4 (01:58:09):
What is the.

Speaker 12 (01:58:10):
Fundamental difference between an African frame of reference and a
European frame of reference or a white frame of reference
or whatever what we experience here. And we never really
asked that question, nor did we try to answer it
at that point, But there is an answer, and we
are getting closer. For example, Kwanza and we talked about hair.

(01:58:32):
For example, at that point, I remember back in the
fifties my brother's wife wearing a natural and getting on
the bus with me, and the black women are kind
of snickering and laughing at her and making fun of
her because her hair was nappy and their's was straightened.
And I remember these comments like, Oh, she's gonna let

(01:58:54):
everybody know we have bad hair. Well, what are we
talking about. We're talking about an evil Now I go
up on Howard's campus and most of the women have
some form of natural air. We're talking about progress in
terms of self appreciation. We're talking about moving from a Yes.
Back in those days, we did not understand our We

(01:59:16):
are slowly building. We talk about Kwanza. Quans are an
important element in terms of what it means to be
an Africans. When you talk about in Gusoslavos the whole goop,
we need to export it to Africa. In other words,
coming up not only with a a definition and an

(01:59:37):
understanding of what it means to be an African, but
also realizing that we all need that we all need
connections between each other. We all need a sympsum. Not
only an African frame of reference, but what that means,
How do that connects with it? How does the connect
What is the difference between what European frame of reference
and an African frame of reference? I would say that

(02:00:00):
the difference is one is individualistically focused and one is
communally focused. African frame of reference is communally focused. We
appreciate each other and we make decisions that are relevant
to our community based on common needs, the common need
of our community. White people pretend to make decisions based

(02:00:22):
on their principles and ideas that are based on individual security,
individual competition. That's what capitalism is. Advice is about competition with
each other. Our frame of reference is about living with
each other, about communally with each other, about cooperating with
each other. And out of those differences are fundamental differences

(02:00:44):
that we have to understand and participation, and we are
beginning to understand those things. We are beginning to understand
what it means to be an African. You know when
doctor King said what he did. Most of us didn't
understand that. We didn't understand that there is a there
is these differences. There is this fundamental difference between our
communal way of looking at life and their individualistic way

(02:01:07):
of looking at life. But their individualistic way of looking
at life is playing out. It's causing us great problems
it cause it's really at the at the core of
what's what's wrong with the world in which we live in.
You know, we have all of these problems that can
be traced back to that fundamental difference. And that fundamental

(02:01:29):
difference is one that we can perceive in terms of
our ancestors versus their ancestors. So, you know, that's where
we are, That's where things are at this point. We
have to accept that the road that we're on allows
us to understand ourselves, understand what we are ancestors said
about living and why the world needs to hear that,

(02:01:52):
and why we need to participate in it and become
a part of that. We can't do that in their
frame of reference, right there.

Speaker 1 (02:02:02):
Yeah, I agree, we need to have our own frame
of reference. Well, let's talk about We'll come a break
and I'll let you respond when we get back from
the break, let's talk about the season, the season that
we're in now, the Christmas season, holiday season. How many
of our people you see got Christmas trees at white
Santa Claus and taking the children to sit on some
white dude's lap at the mall with extension presency and

(02:02:25):
not knowing what all those that come from. You know,
Brother Quasi told us about the history of some of
those rituals Christmas Ristinals. Still people still still you know,
involved in this celebrating this holiday for them. So how
do you pull them away from that? I'll let you
elect your respell when we get back from the break.
Twenty three minutes away from the top. They our family.
You want to join this discussion with Baba la Mumba,

(02:02:46):
reach out to us at eight hundred four or five
zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take your phone
calls next a grand rising family. Thanks are staying with
us on this Tuesday morning. And I guess is Baba Lamumba.
He's one of our grills, one of our eldest works
out of a Moja house in Washington, d C. This
is where a council of elders come together and they
have these great discussions and Babbla Mumware brings them to
the radio before we go back to him. No, let

(02:03:06):
me just remind you. Coming up in the next few days,
we're going to speak with chematologist Tony Tony Browner. He's
got a new book also made a physician and master
herbalist that doctor b will be here. So if you
are in Baltimore, make sure you keep it rady of
locked and tied on ten ten WLB or if you're
in the DMV run fourteen fifty w L Baba Lamma says,
we have an Ambilian ambivalence about our race. You know,

(02:03:27):
some of us negative, on some side positive probably residual
effects of our enslavement days for some of us. That's
why some of us have a problem. When anything comes
to about slavery, we go the other way. When it
comes back embracing white ideals, we cleave to that. And
this is what doctor Fox talked about, addicted to white

(02:03:48):
the oppressed in legal the oppressor as shame based Allianes.
And we see, especially at this time of the year,
this season of the year, we see people will say, oh,
I know that Santa Claus Santadelia and all the evil
that connected that, the pagan's pagan holiday. But still, I'm
just doing it from children. I'm just doing it because
they want to be like what the other folks are doing. So,
Baba lumba, how do we break that? How do we

(02:04:09):
pull them away from that?

Speaker 12 (02:04:11):
Well? I mean, I think Quansa is a perfect bridge
actually because you you know, most people who make the
argument about Christmas, about Santa Claus, et cetera. You know,
all of that is part of white culture. It's a
part of a white frame of references. But you need
a bridge to something black, and Quanta provides a bridge.

(02:04:32):
And that's why a stroke of genius to start Kwanza
the twenty sixth of January. So it allows people to
live with what they grew up with, which was Christmas,
but then transition into something that is more reflective and
we speak to the solving and addressing our problems. The

(02:04:52):
problem of Kwansa is the problem of defining what we
mean by African along a collective a collective way. You know,
it addresses that problem. It's the perfect bridge that allows
us to do both, and it does it at a time.
And because that allows that bridge to actually be used

(02:05:16):
by people. So people who are into Christmas, which is
going to be most black people, can also get involved
with QUANSA, get involved with in the next day, participate
in the first day of Quanta, participated. So that bridge
is there, It's there for us needs and we developed
that all of that stuff has been developed since in

(02:05:38):
the so called sixties, that period that the same time
when we learned that black hair was beautiful, and we
learned that we're in African clothes was beautiful. We learned
that the continent of African was beautiful, we learned the
African feet, we learned that our skin was beautiful, we
learned all all of those things came to us in

(02:05:59):
this period, a dynamic period of black growth, which we
generally refer to as the sixties or the Black Power
period at times. But we have now tools that we've
never had before. So we have a bridge, uh, and
we need we need to use that to each generation

(02:06:20):
needs to build on that bridge. Uh. You know, we
we we need to uh work with that and make
make use of that that we we haven't had that.
Doctor King didn't have that bridge. Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:06:35):
You know he was asking this question though again and
Bob's in Buffalo, get to Boby in the moment. But
how can we do that when when all these subliminal
elements in play. We're talking about television and the commercials.
Now they're showing the interracial families, and I guess that's
the ideal family that TV, especially commercials are showing that

(02:06:55):
this is what we should strive for. How do we
come combat that kind of well, I.

Speaker 12 (02:07:01):
Mean, in other words, society has escalated. It's it's a
it's attack on us. It is it, you know, we
were the things that you just mentioned. We turn on
the television, what you see You see black people and
white people marrying each other. You see. So society is
fighting back, if you will, But it requires us to
you know, to go forward, to recognize what we're what

(02:07:24):
we're facing. You know, it's not they're not going to
give up. They're not going to stop, uh, trying to
make us, you know, completely confined by their frame of reference,
even though their frame of reference isn't a practic of dying.
And also we realize society that we're living is is
self destructing. What do you think that that that climate

(02:07:48):
change and Donald Trump actually means it means that's a
society that is fighting, but it is also dying at
the same time, and that our our necessity is to
survive its demise because its demise is really right in
front of us. That's really what when you're making what

(02:08:08):
Donald Trump means here, you got this person with almost
no redeeming qualities, character qualities, if you will, that has
now been elected president of the United States. And it
should be obvious to everybody else that what he reflects
is not something positive. It's not something that is going
to save the world. It's something that's going to increase

(02:08:31):
in destroying the world and destructive. So we're in a
environment that is self destructing. It doesn't Our job is
to survive that self destruction. And you know, you can't
deny that. What we're facing in America is a process

(02:08:51):
of a society that is in the it's death throws. Now,
that's what America is in. That's what Donald Trump means.
It means he means that its society is collapsing. Our
job is to survive it's collapsed by creating an environment
and in a community that that is capable of doing
that capable of being being around. When a society that

(02:09:15):
has captured us, that subjugated us ceases to be a
factor in our lives. So you know, our job was
as much as is to survive the society. A society
that is clearly on the throes of its own demise.

Speaker 1 (02:09:32):
Gotcha to have away from the top, Bob and Buffalo
is checking in for us on this conversation. Grand Rising, Bobby,
I'm with Baba la Mumba, you.

Speaker 16 (02:09:41):
Sir, blessed love family.

Speaker 10 (02:09:42):
Thank you, Baba.

Speaker 16 (02:09:44):
As I remember coming up, doctor King was our primary
civil rights leader, and we talked and drew close to
that struggle because we were not being treated even stilly
as human beings. And then Brother Malcolm came up and said,
there's something superior to civil rights, which is human rights.
And I was wondering how that Baba thinks about understanding

(02:10:09):
human rights. And we have a leader now, Reverend Al Sharkter,
who says he's America's premier civil rights leader. How does
human rights come in, especially when we have a anti
humanity stream of thought. Whereas we're given one of the

(02:10:30):
things I love about Malcolm, he said that we have
learned to think with our own minds. We're given this
narrative now where two people were killed in Brown University,
fifteen were killed in Australia. But we seem to have
overlooked the fact that tens of thousands were massacred and
killed in Palestine and a whole nation has been destroyed

(02:10:53):
or wiped out or attacked. How do we get back
to the idea of human rights emphasizing the humanity of all.
I was wondering how he feels about the human rights
issue as opposed to the civil rights issue.

Speaker 12 (02:11:10):
Okay, let me respond by saying, there's something between two. Yes,
human rights are important, but black aspirations in black advancement
and black rights has to come before that. In other words,
peoples of the world, whether they're the Chinese or the

(02:11:30):
Palestinians or anybody else in the world, put their emphasis
on their people and their right their elevation. We can't
go from, you know, a white frame of reference to
an international frame of reference. We got to go from
a white frame of reference to a black frame of

(02:11:51):
reference and see how that fits into an international there. So,
our primary job isn't to be concerned about human rights,
is be concerned about our rights, you know, our power?
Uh uh? And then yes, we don't we don't want
to be in a position we don't want to oppress
other people. Yes, that's clear. So, but we're not the

(02:12:13):
kind of people who do oppress other people. We're the
kind of people who get oppressed by other people. So,
you know, we can't be sure that the Chinese, or
that the Russians, or that the Palestinians forever or anybody
else in the world are going to treat us the
way we would want to be treated. We have to
be concerned about how we want to be treated, which

(02:12:35):
means we have to increase our power base. We have
to focus on ourselves. Yes, we had not oppressed other people.
Yes we cannot be a position we don't want to
be the oppressors of other people. But we our primary
job is to stop other people from oppressing us. And

(02:12:55):
so you know, there is a there's an interim between
an interim step between uh, you know.

Speaker 5 (02:13:04):
Uh.

Speaker 12 (02:13:07):
Wanting to live and the side and wanting to save
the world, and that step is saving ourselves then then
trying to take when we gained the power, use our
power to save the world. But in the meantime, we
have to gain the power to be able to do that.

Speaker 10 (02:13:26):
Sure, I sure I sure, I hear you.

Speaker 12 (02:13:29):
Brother.

Speaker 1 (02:13:29):
You take it away from the top. Baba Lama. You
mentioned that we have an ambivalence about some some negative
something positive aoutus. But isn't it the same thing on
the content our brothers and sisters have the same issue.

Speaker 12 (02:13:42):
Well yeah, because we're in the same thing. We have
for different reasons, we have the same issue. Yes, that's true.
I I was talking to a sister the other day
who was a sister from Nigeria, and so I asked her,
you know not She said, well, I'm I'm an Nigerian.
I said, well, what does that mean? You're europa you're

(02:14:03):
euro Khan. What are you? She said, no, I'm just
a Nigerian. She said, well, I said, well, you know,
Nigeria was what Europeans created. Nigerian English people drew those lines.
You know, the countries in Africa weren't created by Africans.
They cross ethnic lines that weren't created by Africans. So

(02:14:25):
you know, we have the same Africans also exist in
a white frame of reference because they're very countries that
they identify with now are not the products of their
own culture. They're the products of what Europeans have decided
they want to slice Africa into so you know, this

(02:14:46):
creates another problem. And then you know, and they speak
their their colonial language. If you're from a French country,
you speak France. If you're from an English speaking country,
you speak English as well as your own travel. They're
in a better position in that they have greater contacts
with their cultural paths. So they speak their own language,
they speak Europe, or they speak a Khan, or they

(02:15:07):
speak Zulu, or they speak a language that is African,
so they are closer to their Africans. But they also
have this ambivalence, different forms of the same ambivalence that
we have. They also look to those people and have
a frame of reference that sees those people in ways

(02:15:28):
that are complementary and see themselves in their own cultures
in the way that is that are inferior or less than. So, yes,
we all have the same ambivalence, but it's not the
same ambivalence. It's not based on the same realities. Africans
definitely have an ambivalence. They're not really the face up
to But you know, I always tell them, I said,

(02:15:50):
look here, your country was the lines that created your country,
whether it's Ghana or Senegal or were created by white people.
The African didn't do that. Africans didn't make you a Nigerian.
You know, your people made you a europe They made
you in a Khan, they made you a Zulu, they

(02:16:11):
made you whatever your ethnicity is within the African context.
And when Africa tried well, for example, when the Opera
tried to create a homeland for the Ebrews, what happened.
People like Stokely said no, we gotta go, we gotta
we gotta oppose that. We you know, it's like saying,

(02:16:34):
you know, we gotta stay in the context of what
Europeans created. The lines that these drew great drew, not
the lines that Africans drew. So it's the same problem,
it's just manifests itself differently. We have to realize that
all of us as black people don't have a sufficient

(02:16:56):
enough African frame of reference to create the solidarity that
we need to change our situation and combat the oppression
that we face that requires our unity. Our unity must
be must be created through that reality. Lets me, we

(02:17:17):
are not Africans do not escape the reality of their oppression,
creating the ambivalence about themselves their own culture and their
own people. They just manifested a little differently than we manifested.
But it's the same problem.

Speaker 1 (02:17:33):
Got it? Hold up all right there? We got a
step aside. When we come back, though, explain to us,
because we've got some folks on this side of the
planet who don't want to be African, you know, Ados,
or the foundation of America, anything but African. They cleave
to the stars and stripes instead of the red, green,
and black. What do you say to those folks who
seem to be misinformed and low information, folks who don't understand,

(02:17:56):
who don't know who they are, and so the people
who follow them obviously don't know who they are, So
that anything somebody tells you you are, you believe. But
what do you say to those folks who follow that prescription?
And I'll let you respond when we get back. We'll
hold the thought. Babblam. We guys take a short break
four minutes away from the top day our family. You
two can get in on this conversation with Baba la Mumba.
Reach out to us at eight hundred four or five

(02:18:17):
zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take your phone calls.
Next Tank Grand Rising family. Thanks for rolling with us
on this Tuesday morning. Here with our guests. The Babbla
La Mumba Babba Lamumba is one of our grills works
out of Emoja House in Washington, DC. It's a house
where a council of elders and they have these great
discussions and they bring them on the radio. Right now,
babl La Momas is talking about resolving the ambivalence that

(02:18:39):
we have about ourselves. We always have some negative feelings
about ourselves and some positive feelings about ourselves. Some people
don't like to discuss it at all. And it happens
all of us have had these thoughts because we've been
programmed that way. But some of us are having an awakening.
But some groups who don't want to be awake, they
want to still cleave to the colonial master's way of

(02:19:00):
life and that whole setup that they believe that and
they put down people who want to grow and want
to and want to move on into an African standard space. So,
Baba Lamba, how do we deal with those folks? Do
we just ignore them?

Speaker 12 (02:19:13):
I would think so. I think they'll come around as
we create an alternative that that's viable, they'll begin to
accept that. Just like I think Quans is a good example.
Before we had quans, nobody could actually conceptualize. But now
that it's here, a lot of people participated who would
never have participated and unless they it was there for

(02:19:35):
them to experience. So when we create realities that people
can join, they will join because they will they will
manifest themselves in ways that allow for their participation. So
our job is to create alternatives that allow for their participation.
Build communities, build relationships with each other, build connections between

(02:19:57):
ourselves based on our ves values, and demonstrate the people
that they will work and they will not only save us,
but they have the great potential to saving hope the planet.
But you know that we can get away from the
kind of selfishness, the kind of individualism, the kind of

(02:20:19):
self focus that this society represents. That this so we
we that we we're just infected by infected by our
We learn to compete against one another, not to cooperate
with one another. The values that we represent will teach
us and will allow us to learn how to cooperate

(02:20:41):
with one another. You know they will. You know, capitalism
is based on winners and losers. You know our way
of life is based based on everybody winning, all of
us winning, all of us helping each other, all of
us cooperating with it. We cooperate with each other, so
we have to build those things, you know. We we

(02:21:03):
didn't understand that that Nappi hair was good hair until
we start wearing him. James Brown didn't sing us. I
think sing I'm saying aloud I'm black and I'm proud.
So he cut his his process off and was wearing
a natural. He didn't sing say it loud, I'm black
and I'm proud with straightened hair. He sang it with

(02:21:25):
with with a big bush on his head. Because he
was influenced by other people. Now, if he before he
got those influence he would have denied it. He wouldn't
have He would have said that his hair didn't mean anything,
that it was a good hair. But once he realized
that it was that Nappi hair was good hair, he

(02:21:46):
created a song that we can use as an anthem
and and and and allowed his and walk and sang
it with a bush.

Speaker 1 (02:21:55):
So yeah, buy let me jump in here. I'm that
issue too, Uh baba la mama. That didn't last. We
went through that period where black is beautiful. We had adkis,
pigs froze and the whole nine yards, and we embraced
each other that black was beautiful.

Speaker 12 (02:22:10):
What happened, well, I mean, it's still happening, Carl. It
just we up and down. You know, this is a
sort of a seesaw effect. We you know, the long
term advances that many of the gains that we made
still exist. A lot of young black brothers and sisters,
Like I said, I was on Howard's campus. Most of

(02:22:30):
the women up there and natural hair. They didn't have
that what I was called to school up there, Most
of them had straight hair. We we have made some
gains that have lasted. And you know, but our opposition
ensures that, well we will, we will regress. They will
reward people for for regressing. Regressing, they will, they will fight.

(02:22:56):
We're you know, we're in the struggle for ourselves. So
it's up and down. The question is are we slowly
making real progress? I said, yes, we are. All of
the progress who we have made has not been negated.
There are many more black people now who have a
greater appreciation and sense of value about than there used

(02:23:19):
to be. And that's what we have to use the
judge it. It's not going to be a straight a
straight line upward. It's not going to be it's going
to be up and down. But I would say that
we're much better than we were twenty thirty, forty years ago.
We're much better than we were now. We have values

(02:23:40):
that are much more consistent, even though they are taking
a beating, even though they're being assaulted by society. But
society has not negated them. It is set them back,
but it has not negated them. We are still making
progress and we are still on a path towards a

(02:24:03):
self self appreciation that society will not be because it's
society itself is dying. The society that is fighting against
us is in its death throws. You know.

Speaker 1 (02:24:18):
Let me tell you here for a second.

Speaker 12 (02:24:19):
That's what Donald.

Speaker 1 (02:24:20):
When I was going there with with with Donald Trump,
the Trump effect here at six after the top, that
with Boba Lamumba. The fact that Donald Trump is rolling
back so many of our civil rights and issues, the
things that we took for granted, the brothers and sisters
for for in the sixties. Do you think you've seen
an awakening or reawakening of black is beautiful that we

(02:24:43):
now cleaving we saw we see a slight example HBCUs
the campuses where our youngsters are going to our schools
instead of trying to get into these white colleges, since
he's blocking the way for us to go there. But
other than that, are you seeing a ground swell in
the black commun Well, all of a sudden, now we've
got oh wait, okay, we don't need and we can
do this on our own. That yet Babola MoMA.

Speaker 12 (02:25:05):
Well, well, I see that there's some of that, and
I think it will grow. My prediction is that it
will become stronger. I think the damage that he's doing
is awakening people to the reality is that what he
represents is still a potent factor against us and that

(02:25:29):
so I see some of that happening, and I think
it will increase. I think that the the results of
because he's such an obvious negative factor. I mean, it's
it's hard for black people to ignore Donald Trump. You
mean that's I mean, he's he's so egregious, he's so

(02:25:51):
ridiculous when it comes to uh, it's almost like you
have a crew clus glad member of the white you know,
it's almost that obvious that his opposition you know, I
mean nobody. No black persons saw the klu Kus Klan
as a positive element in our community. And no and

(02:26:13):
almost no Black people see Donald Trump. Some some do,
some actually pretend to, because the more obvious opportunists would
gravitate towards Donald Trump, just trying to get on his
good side so they can get a leg up against us.
But the reality is that he is going weaker and weaker,

(02:26:35):
and that we, you know, we will overcome him and
we will continue to make progress and his effect will
be probably to strengthen our capacity to make progress in
the final analysis. Right now, it doesn't seem that way,
but my prediction is that it will be that way.
Will a year or two or three years from now,

(02:26:58):
when he's gone, you'll see that we we we learned
something from him, We gained some momentum from him, We
gained some strength from him, and his opposition became stronger,
and we're we'll be in a better position. That's my
prediction that we will be in a stronger position when

(02:27:18):
he leaves than we are now, in part because of him,
because of his audacious, ridiculous posture that he takes that
allows people to understand and to see what it is
that we're opposed to and what it is we have
to fight, and the dangers involved in in going along
with what he represents.

Speaker 1 (02:27:42):
You know, having said it though a ten half the
top of a bubblum, how do weplace just for example,
the artifacts in the museum downtown, a bit of taken out,
anything that depicts that slavey was was was against humanity,
all these little things that they subtle changes and some
not so subtle changes he has made in our society
living in this country. How are we going to replace that?

(02:28:04):
Because young people coming up with things of slavery with
some sort of a holiday if they know believe what
Donald Trump is trying to tell us? So how do
we change that? Though?

Speaker 12 (02:28:14):
I think that the forces against that will will prevail.
And how long it takes it to prevail, and what
damage will we will result I can't predict, but I
think the forces against that, and it's such an obvious
negative impact that we will learn from that impact and

(02:28:35):
we will we will be able to reverse it. Those
things will be put back because it's obvious. You know,
you're not going to slavery was, You're not going to
pretend as that slavey didn't exist. Everybody knows it exists.
You're not going to burn all the books that talked
about slavery. You're not going to get rid of it.

(02:28:56):
So people will know that it exists, and they will
know that somebody tried to and they will react accordingly.
So he is not going to be able to set
us back to the degree in which we're not affected
by basic knowledge and understanding of our lives, because the
books are out there, the information is out there, and

(02:29:19):
he himself and his minions and his people will not
be able to erase that. You know, you can't erase
history once it's understood. You can temporarily impact on it,
but you can't erase it. And because he can't erase it,
we will always have the capacity to refer to it,
to use it. The fact that it's not in one

(02:29:41):
museum doesn't mean that it's not at all those books.
It doesn't mean it's not in the life, doesn't mean
it's not at ours, doesn't mean it's not in the classrooms,
doesn't mean that it's not being taught by teachers who
our teachers or history teachers will talk about slavery, will
talk about his impacts, will our young people to experience this.

(02:30:03):
Donald Trump does not have the power the negate the
lessons of slavery, doesn't have that power, and he and
he and him trying to assume that power will only
expose him for the for the foolishness that he represents.

Speaker 1 (02:30:21):
Twelve after top you know you mentioned earlier about the music,
say loud, I'm black and I'm priord uh James Brown
song and he did that with Khalid almansor doctor Almansur.
You knew doctor Manso before I did. You knew him
with his slave name, if you will, but he was
one of the most impactful persons on this planet. Uh.
But going back to the music, though, Baba la momba,

(02:30:43):
how do you see the music as a driver to
bradge a gap between us reality, who we are and
who they want us to be? Because we're not hearing
the music that we heard in the sixties to seventies
that you know, uh, lifted us up. The message is
not all those music, those songs, those positive songs. Now
we're hearing what they call music and some of us.

(02:31:05):
I shouldn't have said that, because it is music to
this generation, but it's degrading and they're degrading as a people,
our sisters especially, How do we flip that around? Because
that's the music is so infectious, and there's some of
these young folks who minds of not being developed, they
buy into what they hear. Some of these people who
producing these these songs.

Speaker 12 (02:31:26):
Well, yeah, I think that's temporary. I think that you know,
the positive music that we produce, like we use James
Brown say loud, I'm black and up broa, Well, that's
always going to be around. People will always be able
to hear that. You know, we will. We will. They

(02:31:48):
will not be able to erase the positive impacts of
our music, although they will try, clearly, but my guess
is that it will not be completely successful. And our
our our job people of our generation, is to is
to is to present, that is to show, that is

(02:32:10):
to expose, that is to make sure that we that
our younger generation are younger generation on you. I understand that,
But my feeling is that what you experienced as a
setback is only temporary. It really is, as far as
I'm concerned, only temporary.

Speaker 10 (02:32:31):
We will all right, let.

Speaker 1 (02:32:32):
Me let me let me throw this at you. Do
you think if a song that not necessarily the same
words that James Brown did say loud, I'm black and
I'm proud, and so some of these hip hop artists
did a song like that convey the same message. Do
you think how people would understand whether they gravitate to it?

Speaker 12 (02:32:52):
Well, you know, and during this period right now, it
probably is not going to happen, but I think that
it won't be long before it can and will happen.
And when it happens, it'll be ready because you know,
things happen on a cultural level at the point in
which people are ready to receive them. They have to

(02:33:13):
be able to put it out there and they have
to people have to accept it. And the other reason
James Brown's song, or the reason that so many of
the other songs at the time Curtis Mayfield songs or
other songs were were accepted, is that people understood and
related to the message. So you know, uh, people will

(02:33:38):
understand and relate to the message when the message comes around,
But otherwise it won't be successful. But you know, I
think that that that we will, we will be able
to appreciate collectively appreciate our own elevation as a people,
and I think that's more than anything else how how

(02:33:59):
how we bought into this kind of individualism, this competition
between us? How do we what is the context in
which we are oriented towards our collective aspirations as opposed
to our individual needs, our individual wants? You know, I
think that's a more basic question. To what extent can

(02:34:22):
we focus on our collective self versus our individual desires?
If you will? It's kind of like, you know, whether
we want you know, I mean, you know, I want
a Cadillac, you know they used to be there, or

(02:34:44):
I want the Mercedes versus I want transportation and knee transportation.
You know, the fundamental values and the competition between each
other others. I don't think we've lost that. I think
that we will we turn to a set of values
that are more consistent with our movement, our collective struggle,

(02:35:06):
our collective well being as opposed to our individual desires,
because that.

Speaker 1 (02:35:12):
Helps you Yeah, hold up? All right there? We got
a step aside. When we come back, Brother Shaheed in Brooklyn,
Bedsty do a die Bedsty Brooklyn. It has a question
for you or a comment. Family, You two can join
our conversation with Baba la Mumba. One of our grills
just reach out to us at eight hundred four or
five zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take your
phone calls next and Grand Rising Family facts are staying

(02:35:33):
with us on this Tuesday morning with our guest Baba
Lamumba is one of our grills, works out of Emoja
House in Washington, DC. He says, we and this is true.
You know, our feelings about ourselves are ambivalent. We have
these ambivalent feelings, some of them negative, some of them positive.
He's trying to teach us this morning how to get
rid of the negative ones. Eight hundred four or five
zero seventy eight seventy sixth number of calls speak to him.

(02:35:55):
And as I mentioned before we left for the break,
Brother shaheedes checking in from Brooklyn is online. One brother
Shaheed Baba.

Speaker 9 (02:36:02):
La Mumba, Grand Rising, Grand Rising Brother call and through
our guests Babla La Mumba. Well, he's not a guest,
he's a family member. And Uh, I want to commend
the program today in Babla La Mumba and the points
he's making. Uh he's speaking about we are making uh

(02:36:23):
to respond to a call to about all were advancing
and he I agree with him one thousand and one percent.
We are advancing. And the example that I would give
the add to the example of adequate the uh the
expert examples that Babbla la Muma gave was this the
position around reparation from the days of the Honorable Marcus

(02:36:49):
Garvey and a Queen Mother Moore UH and Malcolm X
to today with the work that was done in two
thousand and one in Durban, South Africa, with the durving
four hundred Black people, that reparation coming out of that
two thousand and one event, reparation is on the lips,

(02:37:12):
I would dare say of people all over the world,
including our enemies. Our enemy is investing billions and billions
of dollars to stifle this. This this tsunami of movement
towards reparation from the people. Those are those are views

(02:37:34):
that Black people are gathering and have gathered, just like
getting rid of the Marssel, you know, the dow and
coming up with the Afro. We are moving. We are
moving and we and we won't stop. So I'm saying, brother,
you are right or would you please can you speak

(02:37:55):
to the example of reparations and how that is an
example living an example that we are moving in a
Sunni rate.

Speaker 12 (02:38:06):
All right, Well, you know, I think that's I think
that's another very clear example of progress that we're making.
You know, there was a time in which people laughed
at the notion of reparations. There's you know, back in
the days I remember where you know, nobody took that seriously.
Now and now everybody's thinking it seriously, everybody as asks

(02:38:28):
a question, Yes, the perfect example of where our growth
and development in terms of our collective consciousness, our collective direction,
what have you without? I mean, you know, we we
and I appreciate the brother raising that and pointing out
the fact that it's a perfect example of of our

(02:38:52):
are under our collective understanding, having grown and developed in
a way that has created more towards a consensus that
we once didn't have, you know, uh, and now that
we're beginning to have and there were and that has
impact across the world because the validity of the notion

(02:39:14):
that we were abused, used, enslaved, punished, and we were
not given any compensation for that, we were never Uh.
It has to be rectified, has to be addressed, has
to be and there is a consensus that's developing about
and what direction. Now, whether you know what is it,

(02:39:37):
what is it, had it has achieved and where it
is at this point is another matter. But there is
clearly a consensus that has developed about the righteousness of
our are are what we deserve as as repayment for
the abuse and the misuse that we've suffered.

Speaker 9 (02:39:59):
So thank you, I make a point, and police, thank you,
man make of them a last point call please, And
and that last point is uh is this that.

Speaker 12 (02:40:12):
We have?

Speaker 9 (02:40:13):
We are constantly being uh uh driven down a road
into a burning house in many examples. For examples, now,
we all went to school in college, and we acknowledge
Europe Europe as a continent. When you see, if you've
got a graduate degree from high school or elementary school,

(02:40:36):
you know there is no such continent as Europe. It's Asia.
And that's a part of it. And also that people
we also claimed about we are uh are Americans, but
we are in this country. The name of this country
is the United States. It is in the Americas, but

(02:40:59):
our people call themselves Americans, and they're doing to deny
the Jamaican the right to be Americans, the Mexican the
right to be American. And and and and and these
points of of not I'm not saying stupid when I
use the word ignorance, but it is a degree. It
is ignorance in the sense that we don't know what

(02:41:22):
it is we are saying, and we need to look
at it. We need to every morning we wake up,
we need to deprogram ourselves. When our children come home
from school, we need to deprogram them. You know, what
did you go through today?

Speaker 12 (02:41:37):
You know?

Speaker 9 (02:41:37):
And do that and help the process of getting our
heads strayed as to who are even the Africans of
being influenced by the Africans Africans or the continent I
mean by Africans here in the United States.

Speaker 3 (02:41:54):
They look at the look at the AAU.

Speaker 9 (02:41:57):
And they are now acknowledging, uh, that reparation is due
to the continent of Africa and the people of Africa
because what was stolen from them and they acknowledge that
their brothers, their people have been stolen by the millions. See,
that's a growing also, that's a coming together to deny

(02:42:20):
this lie that Africans don't love us and we don't
like them, and we ain't Africans our hang up and
listen off air please, thank you very much and have
a brand brand rising.

Speaker 12 (02:42:37):
Well, yeah, I appreciate that. Well, the brothers pointing out
that there is real development in terms of the consciousness
of our people. We are coming together and our understanding
of the world that we're in is certainly being clarified
by this understanding. It's changing, it's changing in the direction
that we should appreciate and you know, and participate in. So,

(02:43:02):
you know, I agree with this, said listen. I want
to thank him for bringing that context into the picture.

Speaker 14 (02:43:13):
Okay, hello, yeah, brother Collins.

Speaker 1 (02:43:31):
Okay, it seems like we lost brother Collas. Let me
ask you this.

Speaker 10 (02:43:35):
Hello, Hello, you're.

Speaker 1 (02:43:37):
On the air. Let's move on. Let's go because eight
hundred and four or five zero seventy eight seventy six
Baba la mumba. We talked about earlier about the Afro
the bushes that we had that the say loud, I'm
back and I'm proud of that whole era that we had.
But then we had something to come that negated all
of that. The Jerry Curl, for example, it took out

(02:44:00):
the folks who were in their naturals. Are you concerned
that if we make one take one foot, make one
foot progressive that we take another somebody else or some
entity is gonna come and try to take that away
from us.

Speaker 12 (02:44:13):
Oh, yes, certainly, But you know the jerky co didn't last.
You know, you don't seem to make jerk girls now,
so you know, I mean, there will always tempt There
will always be a reaction to our progress. We will
always be messages. But I think that our momentum is
strong enough to overcome those messages and that we will

(02:44:35):
The truth of what we represent will win out because
it is obviously the truth, you know. You know, we
will appreciate our hair as being natural. We will grow,
We will have more sisters and more brothers who are
wearing natural hair. We will appreciate that the you know themselves.

(02:44:58):
We will have more black people who appreciate Africa, who
will practice, will have you know, our our march can
be waylaid, but it can't be stopped. It can be
temporarily uh kidnapped, It can be altered in some way,
but it can't be stopped. And we have to realize

(02:45:20):
that because it, you know, the truth and the obvious
truth of what it is that we represent cannot really
be denied. So each generation will have to face uh,
the regression, if you will, as our movement, but each
generation will will We'll be able to overcome that because

(02:45:41):
the fact of the matter is truth is on our side,
it isn't on their side. The world that we're living in.
Donald Trump is not the truth. Donald Trump is an aberration.
Donald Trumps is a is a is a serious mistake
on the world that the world will ultimately have to
accept that as it him being a mistake. Even though

(02:46:02):
he represents the past, he represents you know what, the
what we used to see as the klu klux Klan
element if you will, uh, you know, those days are
past and his return, if you will, at a return
of that element does not have the capacity to sustain

(02:46:23):
itself in a world that is more realistic and more honest,
and more forthright and more evident than than it has
been in the past. So don't worry about the the
the temporary regressions that we face. We have the capacity
to overcome those temporary regressions and we will and we.

Speaker 1 (02:46:47):
Will face them though. That's that's to be right now.
Twenty eight away from the top of brother Calls has
called back is in Waldorf. He's online one grind Rising,
Brother Carl us, I'm a Baba la Mumba.

Speaker 17 (02:47:00):
Yeah, Brand Rising Karl, Sorry for the glitch uh the
brother Lambumba Baba la Mumba. I want to drilled down
and asked you the real question when you mentioned the
Nigerian person who said that they were from Nigerian. They
were Nigerian and they were trying to escape that blackness.

(02:47:23):
We see this phenomenal developing all over. The Somalians came
here and they claim that they are Somalians and not black,
and so they are seen to be racing towards white
privilege to escape their blackness. Now, I think this creates

(02:47:44):
a certain divisiveness between our communities. And so what do
you think? Have you? I know, you run across this
situation time and time again, and you're Washington, DC area,
and have you because I've done the same thing, run
across the same thing that they come here and sometimes

(02:48:05):
they think they're superior to us and they look down
on us native from African Americans. And how do you
address that question?

Speaker 12 (02:48:17):
Well, as I think I mentioned before, my user response
is that the divisions that you talk about, the natural
geographical positions that you talk about the countries that you
talk about were not created by Africans. They're created by people.
Colonialism created those divisions. And now you're claiming that you're

(02:48:37):
proud in your context and your understanding is based on
those divisions. Well, you know that's evidence of a sense
of inferiority. That that means you're willing to accept them
their right to define you, and they don't have that right.

(02:48:58):
And if you accept that right for them to define you,
if you call yourself all you know, if you call
yoursel an idea is you call If you use that
as your frame of reference you use, you're accepting them
as your master. You're right, You're you're the They're the
ones that define who you are. They cannot be the
ones who define you who you are unless you subjugate

(02:49:21):
yourselves and your identity to theirs. And you know accept that.
When I say that to continental Africans, they have nothing
to say in response. They simply, you know, repeat themselves.
The reality is you're you. The frame of reference that
you are are asserting is one that you didn't create.

(02:49:44):
Somebody else created for you. So you know, face that
and deal with what does that mean? It means you're
in the same position that we're in here. You have
to have a frame of report that what That's why
Pan Africanism, that's why came from from the ex slaves.
That's why Garvey was who who he is. That's why

(02:50:05):
in Koumi learned and Africanism. Other Africans learned it from us.
That's why we're the one who the ex slaves is
the ones who really set forth the direction that Quansa
needs to be not just an African American thing, it
needs to be an African thing. It needs to be
a context in which Africans try to connect themselves to

(02:50:27):
each other. What is the cultural context in which you
can connect yourself with other black people is a key question,
and Kwansa has been one of the things that has
allowed that to happen. So, you know, instead of just
so you know, we have to in that context that unity,
that connection probably comes and the importance of that connection

(02:50:52):
comes from the X slave, comes from the people who
have been subjugated, who come from here, come from this hemisphere.
We're the ones who propel fan Africanism. We're the ones
that that that set forth the framework for black unity,
and black unity is the basis for black strength and

(02:51:14):
black development and black security and black independence and black
all of the things that we absolutely need is a people.

Speaker 1 (02:51:22):
Yeah, oh that's all right there, We've got to short
brother college. Hold on, I'll let you, I'll let you
oppose your follow up question, and let me just say
this before we go to break. We haven't met all Samalis,
so we don't say that all Samalis think that way.
It's like when people see something happened on a black
person on TV, they think all of us are that
way because they don't know any black people. The white people,
most white people don't know any black people. They don't

(02:51:44):
have any black friends, so all they know is what
they see on TV about us. And one in one
meeting with one Somalia or even a group of Samalis
doesn't represent all of Samalis. I'm just saying that. Twenty
three minutes away from the top of our family, it's
our guest is Baba Lama from Emosa in Washington, d C.
You want to join this conversation, reach out to us
at eight hundred and four to five zero seventy eight

(02:52:05):
seventy six and we'll take your phone calls next and
Grand Rising family, thanks for rolling with us on this Wednesday, No,
Tuesday morning. That's where we are Tuesday. I'm ahead of
the game, seventeen minutes away from the top of the
ho with guess the Babela Mumma from the Moja House
in Washington, d C. Babbla Bumba, the Council of Elders
at the Moja House, and they have these great discussions.
Then we come back and do them on the radio,
and folks at the barber shops around the country who

(02:52:27):
listened to the program, they continue the discussions there. Before
we left, were speaking of Brother Carlis the calling us
from from Waldorf from Maryland. Brother Collis, you had a
follow up question for bab La Mumba.

Speaker 10 (02:52:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (02:52:37):
I'll make this real quick. It appears that those groups
like Samalios have pitched their tents with the with the Devil,
and the devil is burning it down. I e. Donald Trump,
but I'm gonna pose this this this statement that one
of the emms in the Somalian community made. He said

(02:52:59):
that why should we connect with these Africans or these
African Americans. They most of them are a product of
one night stands. They don't even know Dead Daddy's and
we don't want to connect with people with that type
of culture. That's the kind of statement that is hateful

(02:53:22):
to me. And I don't understand where it's coming from,
my dear brother, unless it's been poisoned given to them
by the European Americans, I mean European community. Thank you,
Mindy for taking my call a.

Speaker 1 (02:53:38):
Bubba la mamba.

Speaker 14 (02:53:39):
You want to respond, well, I think that's true.

Speaker 12 (02:53:42):
I mean, I think that the negative feelings we have
about each other come from you know, white society who
is a vestid interest in keeping us apart. Their basic
tactic is to divide us, and that means you know,
leading in so the stuff to each other and uh,
to their to their other black people. That's why when

(02:54:06):
they divided after into good, they divided them across life.
They didn't go through and say, okay you have you
are a people here, so you have a country. They
separated you so that they could divide and conquer you.
Their basic tactic is to divide because they don't worry
about uh, you know that's going to go on and

(02:54:26):
on and on. They're they're not going to cease their
basic tactic to divide and conquer, to control you. By divisions.
So you know, they're going to tell people all kinds
of negative things about you, and they're they're going to
but you know, I think that what when we when
we talk to each other, when we come to each
other and relate and we can relate, we can correct

(02:54:47):
some of that stuff. And when they come here, they
begin to realize who we actually are and what we
what we have to face, and what our problems are,
and we can create connections between ourselves with each other here. Well,
we're plevy examples of continental applets who work with black
people here, who participate in our struggle here to help

(02:55:11):
us develop communities, who bring their culture to us, to
to help us understand their culture, and we try to
help them understand what's happened to us in our frame
of reference. We can work together to overcome those things.
But don't worry about the fact that our opposition will
continue to try to divide us. That's going to go

(02:55:32):
on and all that. We can't stop that until we're
ultimately victorious. But we can be victorious by working with
each other. We can build together. We can you know,
one on one, group by group, people by people, we
can developed an alternatives and we can be victorious. The

(02:55:52):
history is on our side, it ain't on their side.
I will ultimately win.

Speaker 1 (02:55:58):
Yeah, cause is smarter than that. He shouldn't get upset
if you hear that. He know that's you know, that's
what they've been taught. How do they know all that stuff?
Somebody else taught them and that's that's the problem. So
don't get upset with them. Get up some of the
people who are trying to divide us the way Baba
La Bumba said, because that's exactly what they want you
to do. They want you to divide you. And so
all of a sudden, now you were to opposed to
every Somali that you see because you hear the Somali

(02:56:21):
bomb say something inappropriate. So but don't let them. Don't
let them get to you. Brother. They're just smarter than that,
Brother Collins, because I've heard you before, so you can
analyze this situation. So don't think I'd get to get
been out of shape about stuff like that. That's exactly
what they're trying to do. And this moves on to
this next phase. I want to ask you about Baba Luma.

(02:56:41):
They use the internet a lot. How are we going
to combat this because a lot of stuff that you
see on the Internet isn't true. It's a lot of
to get you all upset, propagate this to keep us
again divided. How do we how do we do it?
Because our generation growing up sixty seventies, we never had
the internet. The people you know, what you heard was
what you heard unless somebody was telling a lie. And

(02:57:03):
it lies to the last reference. But now you've got
the Internet, you believe the other thing.

Speaker 12 (02:57:08):
A part of that is is AI, artificial intelligence, where
they can actually make videos and makes that you can't detect.
They can make pictures that that of things that didn't
even exist, but they they show it to you as
though it existed because they've created it. AI is a
tremendous and you know, technology has produced an environment and

(02:57:30):
which is very difficult to know what's true and what
ain't true.

Speaker 1 (02:57:35):
So you know the point excellent point bubble. Then it
goes back to what the brother callis said he's heard
unless you physically saw or heard the mom say it
himself to him. How dose take the grain of salt,
because that that could have been concocted on the internet.

Speaker 12 (02:57:48):
But ahead exactly, it doesn't make nowadays, we don't know
what we hear is well, even what we see is
true or not. We just don't not compounds are problem.
Of course, we we're in an era in which it's
difficult to know what the truth actually is.

Speaker 1 (02:58:10):
But you know, uh, let me jump in real quick
and I'll let you respond this other we seem so
gullible when it comes to anything negative to believe about
us and our people than the other folks. What's wrong?
What's what's wrong with that?

Speaker 14 (02:58:23):
We seem to have a beau you know, we we
have these negative feelings ourselves and we feed into it.

Speaker 12 (02:58:31):
We've been we we came up. That's why we said, well,
that's why we have this ambibulous that's why our negative
feelings generally out weigh our positive feelings. The other thing
is that most of black people's positive feelings come from
two sources entertainment and sports. You know, we we you know,

(02:58:52):
we see ourselves as entertainers and sports. We don't see
ourselves in any other context. Most of black people's positive
feelings come from those two sources and reality. Uh, we
don't see ourselves as being those people who are capable
of being in charge, those people who are or who
are well organized so people. So you know, our limited

(02:59:13):
source of our positive ceilings have to be expanded. We
have to include on understanding of what it means to
be an African, what it means to be communal, what
it means to be We have to export Quansa to
Africa because it provides a connection between Africans amongst themselves.

(02:59:34):
We can't settle with our divisions and make something. We
have to create connections between those divisions. Kwans is an
attempt to create connections between those divisions. We can't. One
of the reasons that we got ourselves in this situation
is that we were so divided. We had so many

(02:59:56):
different cultures and different languages in different ways, and that
we have very little connection between them. But our job,
as as you know the former slave, is to help
create those connections. That's what makes quantas so important and
that's why it has to be built on. We have
to have connections between each other in order to build

(03:00:18):
a commonality of purpose and the unity that we need
as a people. And that's and that's part of our job.
Our job is to is to enhance, that is to develop,
that is to strengthen that so we have to.

Speaker 1 (03:00:35):
Ex Yeah, I agree, but first we got to change
our thought process because the first thing you hear something
negative about a black person, you cleave to it. Okay,
let me investigate, let me check it out. Well, maybe
this is made up, but we don't give that. We
don't give our people, uh you know, a first choice.
We always go with it. Whatever the negative is about

(03:00:57):
our people, we go with it. We don't we don't
think well. Person that.

Speaker 12 (03:01:02):
Sustains are are our need to be okay with with
white society to get a job, to do well, you know.
In other words, taking on the negative aspects of black
people allow us to to to to live in this
society more comfortably. In other words, we we absorb the

(03:01:23):
negative feelings about black people as a way of being
comfortable in this society because of who this society represents.
And that's what that's the source of our ambivalence. The
source of our ambivalence is our need to be comfortable
with those people who are in power, which lends usself,
lends itself to us uh, not respecting and not loving

(03:01:48):
and not creating, not it lends itself to and emphasizing
the negative feelings that we have about our own people.
So that's exactly the source of our problem, the source
of our ambivalence U is the need and the living
in this society. And we have to face that, we
have to get over that, we have to compensate for that. So, yes,

(03:02:10):
the problems are connected. That's why I took that that,
That's why I'm talking about ambivualous. The ambivalence comes from
simply living in this society, and we have.

Speaker 4 (03:02:20):
To fight it.

Speaker 12 (03:02:20):
We have to recognize it. We have to fight it.

Speaker 1 (03:02:24):
So give us some tools before we let you go.
How can we fight The.

Speaker 12 (03:02:30):
Most pressing tool right now is quanta Participate in Kwanza,
understand it, use it, perpetuate it, and make sure that
people other than people here, make sure that that Kwanta
is is is affects Africa, that other black people other
than Black Americans participate in it. Because it's an attempt

(03:02:52):
at unifying what it means to be an African person.
That is critical to our development. We have to unify
by what it means to be an African person. We
can't simply rely on the various the distances, the differences
between the various cultures, the languagees et cetera. Swahili has
uh for example, it suggested that we use Swahili. Is

(03:03:15):
it suggested that we the use of seven principles. It's
it's suggested that we that we connect ourselves. So the
process of connecting ourselves is what we bring to the
rest of the black world. We bring to that Black
people all over the world use Kwansa as the beginning

(03:03:36):
in that process. Now, you know, there are other things
that have to be done, but let's start there. Let's
just maximize the impact of Kwansa amongst Black people internationally.
That's a good starting point. It's a good starting point
of correcting and addressing the problem of black unity, because

(03:03:58):
without black unity we can and advance our people. We can't.
We connect ourselves with each other, and Kwanza is the
first step in culturally to connect ourselves with each other,
and it also relates to our past and where we
came from in the first place.

Speaker 1 (03:04:17):
I hope folks got what you are trying to teach
this this morning. Babba la bomba unity that should be
the core, the center of our being. Black unity. Everything
else is under attack. We're all under attack, but Black
unity is what they fare the most. So don't buy
into this and some of these negative, negative stereotypes of
people who don't want to be united with black folks

(03:04:37):
fascin if they understand, Baba, black unity is, that's what
they they're scared of.

Speaker 12 (03:04:43):
Most make use of kwanza as a tool for black unity.
Make use of it. Use it. It's there to use,
so use it.

Speaker 1 (03:04:54):
Gotcha. Thank you, Baba la Bumba. Thanks for sharing your
thoughts this morning. I found you understood what Babba la
Bumba trying to teach this morning. This is blank. You know.
The other folks know it. That's why they try so
hard to keep us, you know, at each other's throats
at different levels. They try so Once you figure that out,
once you start from there as a center corps to

(03:05:14):
stay united with your brother and sister wherever he is
on this planet, we can win this war. We can overcome.
But anyway, let me get off my soapbox and close
the classroom door for the day. Thank you, family, thank
you for joining us, and again class is dismissed. Stay strong,
stay positive, please stay healthy. We'll see you tomorrow morning,
six o'clock right here in Baltimore on ten ten WLB

(03:05:35):
and also in the DMV on fourteen fifty WL. Where
information is power

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