Dr. Charles Finch Unveils Groundbreaking African Medicine Research

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're racking with the most submiss The Carl Nelson Show.
You're racking with the most submiss.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank grand Rising, family, and welcome to Wednesday. Later this morning,
renown Egyptian scholar and medical doctor Charles Finch will preview
his new book, African Medicine. But before Doctor Finch, the
Faith Brothers who will check in Before the Faith Brothers
for the Investigative, reporter Jeff Gallip will report on some
of the stories he's working on for his newspaper. But
to get a started momentary, we're gonna hear from New

(00:56):
York law maker Charles Baron. Let's get Kevin to open
the classroom doors for us again on this some day
grind Rising. Kevin, this morning.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Good, I'm feeling absolutely positively excellent. You know, another day
has begun and it's Wednesday, the third of September. Where
does the time go? It's a minute past six?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
How is the a song like that? It was the
third of September. You're a music guy. What was there?
Let me see?

Speaker 3 (01:24):
It was the third? I believe it was the Temptations. Yeah,
Papa was a rolling stone.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Papa was a rolling stone. Now I thought, I know,
you know, you're a music guy.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Feels like trivia pursuit here, but yes, yeah, that's right.
And then of course Mary's White did a song about
September two, but it was the twenty third of September, right,
you know, so there's something important about September, and let
us all remember that things happening in September, and in Alabama, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Gonna be stuck, stuck in your head for a few
minutes moments at LISTA. Papa was a rolling stone, right.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
That's why that's why I named too. You know, it
cures the last song you heard, disease. You know, if
you've got two to choose from. You know what they
call that, Kevin, what do they call that? Earworm?

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Earworm?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, when the song keeps playing in your mind and
you can't get it out.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Oh oh yeah, I thought it was the last song
you heard, disease.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I guess it's a technical name for it as well.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
It's earworm. Oh okay. Well, look in Alabama, they've got
their first black mayor. He wins the election four years
after white residents locked him out of town hall and
refused to let him serve. So Patrick Braxton has been
elected as the mayor of New Burn, Alabama, after the

(02:47):
town voted sixty six to twenty six in his favor.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Any thoughts on that, Yeah, because you know what, when
they first locked him out, some of the black ressidents
didn't vote, and then they got upset and they said,
oh they love the brother out. He wanted out and die.
So this election, the pass election, they came out overwhelming me,
you know, to make sure that they vote county and
this is go back to voting again. They came out,

(03:12):
they stormed the polls, if you will, and overwhelming make
sure that he was re elected so that the white
minority watch could not lock him out. Who are on
the city council. So he's the mayor. So now that's
the moral of that story. You gotta vote, you know.
But it took that for them to see that he
was physically locked out, couldn't do the county city's business

(03:33):
because the white folks wouldn't let him in even though
he was the mayor. So the folks, the black residents
of the city said okay, now we're going to show them.
Let's see if they lock him out now, you know,
because there's no discretion. So that's what happened. In that one.
So that's good story, and.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
It says the black residents outnumbered the white residence.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, two to one.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
It's a small town apparently, Yeah, it's just but you know,
that's the same thing that happened in Saint Louis Ferguson,
you know, were the blacks have numbered, but the whites
control the city, you know, and maybe Charles Barron can
get into that when he joined his momentary, But the
whites controlled all the cities, the mayor, the police chief,
the attorney Jai, all of that the city if all

(04:14):
the city officials were white, and it's a black town
because black folks wouldn't go to the polls.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
That system is incredibly powerful, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, but our people, you know, and we got some
of our people tell us not to vote. And that's
what happened in Ferguson. And then after that, you know,
people say, well, how come all these white folks are
making these decisions for you, you know, the guy who killed
Mike Brown and he can move on and gets gets
away with it. So the next election they voted in
the black mayor and black police chief. They changed the structure,

(04:45):
you know, after Mike Brown's death. But he took something
tragic for that to wake us up. But go ahead, Kevin.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Wow, one last thing, one last thing about brother Braxton.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
Here.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
He was a volunteer firefighter and then he qualified in
twenty twenty run for the non partisan position of mayor.
Since he was the only candidate, he became the mayor
without an election. And then that's when they locked him
out of the Yeah. Man, So he found a lawsuit
and the alleged that outgoing council members held a secret

(05:17):
meeting to set up a special election and fraudulently reappointed themselves.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
As the town council. Man.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Take a look, folks, this is how the system works exactly.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
And it was twenty twenty five now that faced to
do that. That was ramping back in the day, you know,
prior to sixty five. And see this is still going on.
And this is what they attempting to roll us back
to those days, taking away our access to vote. But
that's an interesting story.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Wow, they can go swinging through trees and without with
other trapees.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Right hey.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Look in other news, President Trump as mobilizing up to
seventeen hundred now National Guard troops in nineteen states to
widen crime and immigration crackdown, and he plans to mobilize
as a dramatic expansion of his controversial operation that's seen

(06:14):
federal agents and guard troops carrying out activities across the
nation's capital. They look like to me, they look like
a tourists with guns. But you know they do have vest. Now, Carl,
that says military police. So I looked at right, I
looked at that. I was like, well, I was in
the military. I thought the military police only had so
much jurisdiction though, you know, but apparently, but you know,

(06:37):
go ahead.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
The California sued and one and the judge like a
more than fifty page rendering them from the judge and
he says he cannot create his own federal police force
to patrol the streets of America cities. He rebuked Donald Trump,
and Trump knew was coming, of course. So he's going
to take the issue to the Supreme Court, where he

(06:58):
hopes he'll prevail because he's he's got a lot of
those folks on the panel in his pocket.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, well, the troops will be largely activated across Republican
controlled states, according to the Independent with website, I'm looking
at here and the Guardsmen are assisting ICE and will
be carrying out tasks that may include personal data collection, fingerprinting,

(07:26):
DNA swabbing, and photographing of personnel in custody. Wow, The
deployments will take great take place across the following states. Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Easiana, Nebraska,
New Mexico, Ohio, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming.

(07:49):
And that's according to Fox.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
And you know why, because the Republican governors, okay, and
the Democratic governors were not of great so they get pushedback.
So they didn't they don't want that kind of news
because Republican governors will do anything that Donald Trump wants.
So that's that's why he selected those states.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Meanwhile, he said, Meanwhile, he says, uh, we're headed to Chicago.
We're coming to the Chicago. So he plans to uh
also send troops to Chicago and New York. And they
don't have military on the streets. Next all we can do.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
He always interesting about that. Princekll, the governor of Illinois,
said that the Trump's folks privately called him and asked
him to request that they come in, and he said no.
You know, usually usually they don't. You know, if you
get a call from the White House, you don't disclose
it or anything like that. You know, it's just like
it's privilege because you're not trying to embarrass anybody. But

(08:45):
Princeka announced this. So it's going to be interesting because
he still says no.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
And oddly enough, they're calling Donald Trump's efforts to deploy
active duty military personnel. They're calling it a threat. He's
threatening to do that. It's not anybody wants that right.
Speaking from speaking from the Oval Office, Trump criticized Chicago's
mayor as incompetent and claimed the city's black population was

(09:10):
screaming for help.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Get that they're screaming for military help.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Trump's threat to use regular military for domestic law enforcement
would be illegal under the eighteen seventy eight Posse call
me tachus, we'll we'll getting commatatas commatatus, thank you, the
eighteen seventy eight Posse Comma Titus Act, which limits the
military's role in civilian affairs. But they're forming a posse.

(09:39):
What western are we watching here?

Speaker 2 (09:42):
But you know what, he pushes the envelope to the
to the edge. I mean, he's he's doing every and
then he as if he breaks a log, welcome, what
are you gonna do? Assume me like, and that's what
California had to do. And then he goes, Okay, if
you assume me, then will appeal and we'll go to
the Supreme Court. That's his game plan because he knows
he's got them in his back pockets. So whatever he's doing,
even though it may violate the Constitution or whatever, he'll

(10:05):
do that knowing that at the end he'll sue, they'll
win into lower courts, and then he'll take into the
Supreme Court. We'll see how much how much you know,
independence the Supreme Court has when these cases reached their desks.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Wow, man, it's interesting how he's rolling. He didn't even
consult the mayor. He just said, we're coming to straighten
out Chicago, I tell you, man. And finally, the Washington
Commanders will have high expectations to meet this year in
this season because they want to have a Super Bowl game.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
You know.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
And Adam Peters made significant roster adjustments over the summer
to capitalize on what is suddenly wide open window. Most notably,
the Commander's traded for wide receiver d Bowl Samuel Sr.
And five time Pro Bowl left tackle Laramie Tunsel to
make life easier for second year star quarterback at Jade

(11:00):
and Daniels.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
Good luck to those guys.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, well they made some improvements. But the NFL season
starts on Thursday, so you know a lot of folks
get you know, just waiting for football season, even though
the college football's seiars kicked off last week. But the
pro season starts this Thursday, and then on this weekend
we've got a slate of game. So it'll be interesting
to see how the Commanders do it.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Sure will, man, it's sure will, and it brings brings
some other kind of energy into the city other than
you know, a different kind of uniform other than the camouflage,
the camouflage trash. Yeah, the camouflage. Well, you know, an
assignment is an assignment. Yeah, that's what I say. But
thanks for the time, Carl. That's what's happening. That's the

(11:43):
way it is. On the third of September. Remember, thanks,
Kevin bar Thank you, Carl.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
All right, family, Charles Barons standing by Grand Rising Charles,
Welcome back to the program Grand Rising.

Speaker 6 (11:59):
It's always the honor to be on with you and
my main man deliver in the morning news.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
But I'm going to ask you this though the last
bit of newsic it was trending this morning about Trump's
sending troops in Chicago and He's mentioned Baltimore and New
York and LA on his list. How do you think
that would go over in New York troops are patrolling
bed style. How do you think that would go over?

Speaker 6 (12:25):
Oh, that won't go over well at all. I think
they'll be major resistance to that. And I think you're
going to see resistance growing all across the country. As
you mentioned the lawsuit in LA that they said, hey,
they sided with the people, they sided with the government.
They're saying that this was illegal, and as you also say,

(12:46):
he's going to go to his Supreme Court and try
to get them to okay it. But it will be
other chaos in New York City. I think he'll be
thinking twice before he does it. But you know, this
is a man who has no kind of integrity or intelligence,
So he may make that move, but I don't think

(13:06):
it'll go over well at all in New York city.
And I think also that we're in a time of colonialism.
See Trump is the colonial administrator of this capitalist system.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Have we lost Charles line dropped there at thirty fts
Ole Ken, See if you can get Charles back on
the line for his family, Grand Rising family. Charles Baron
is former New York lawmaker, is former city council member
and also a senator assemblement in Albany at the State
Capitol in New York. There and his district is in Brooklyn.

(13:49):
That's why I asked him about Brooklyn bedstide Brooklyn, how
that would go over with troops in uniforms patrolling those
streets and if you know the streets of Brooklyn, you
know we have exactly he explained. Going on, but coming
up after Charles, we're going to speak with Jeff Gallup.
Jeff is an investigative reporter. You've heard him here before.
He couched some of the stories he's working on in
Central Florida for his newspaper. And then following Jeff, we're

(14:12):
going to talk with the Faith Brothers. Faith Brothers. And
after the Faith Brothers, we just said, you know, just
please to present it again one of our top scholars.
When I say he's one of the top scholars. He's
at the top of the shelf because he's also a
medical doctor. And an Egyptians called that Charles Finch call
up a couple of friends attended to doctor Finch is

(14:33):
going to be on later. But Charles, I'm gonna let
you finish your thought. Man, I thought your line dropped.

Speaker 6 (14:38):
Oh yeah, it just got me back on. I don't
know where I left off. But what we experience now
is colonialism. Trump is acting like a foreign entity that's
going into local cities, particularly in black and brown neighborhoods,
to take tournament of police states to military states to

(14:58):
control not just crime, because if it was really it's
not really about crime because in Washington, DC, crime is
coming down twenty six thirty percent in just about every
major category crime is actually coming down, So there was
no justification for any police forces, I mean military forces,

(15:19):
national guards, even in Washington, DC. And of course he's
looking at Chicago necks and looking at New York. I
think it'll be other chaos in New York if he
tries to bring it to New York. The resistance is
going to be extremely strong. So I think we need
to look at him controlling the economy of these places eventually,

(15:43):
and it's not really about crime. It's almost like what
they did with imperialism abroad, and they said we want
to stop communism. You remember, they is to always say
that it was never about communism. Most Americans don't even
know what communism is. They don't even know what capitalism is.
But so they use it as a justification to put
military bases all over the world to control economies and

(16:07):
control currencies and control the global economic structure. He's doing
it domestically here in America, and the offshoot the appendances
of colonialism is fascism, tending it into a police state,
squashing any resistance, attempting to and then racism is an

(16:30):
ideology that permeates all of the institutions that govern our
communities in America, and particularly in black communities. But the
fact of the matter is is colonial capitalism that he's
pushing harder, especially when you see in New York that
will probably have a socialist mayor, so there is going

(16:53):
to be some serious resistance and if troops come in,
it's going to be to try to control the socialist
mayor control the economy of New York. But we have
a more sinister, a more sinister form of oppression and
control of our communities coming in, and that's neo colonialism.
So the new way to colonize us is to put

(17:14):
black faces in high places that perpetuate the colonial capital
to this agender for control over the economics and the
workforce and all of right.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
And hold on though right there, Charles, we gotta step
aside a few minutes. I'll let you expand on that
when we come back. And also the fact that if
he does come into New York, New York may Eric Adams,
you think that his friends with Donald Trump, you think
he'll he'll go for it. And two, give us an
update on there mayoral race, because Curtie Sleew, the only
Republican on the ticket, is boasting that he may win
because because he's the only Republican on the ticket, that's

(17:46):
what he gets. Your thoughts on what he's saying as well.
Seventeen minutes after the top of our family, just checking
in waking up. I guess that Charles Baron, he's a
former New York Lawmakers City Council member centlement as well.
You got a question of comment reach out to us
at eight hundred four by zero seventy eight seventy six,
and we'll take a calls next.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Now back to the Carl Nelson Show, Bank Grand.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Rising family, Thanks are waking up with us on this
Wednesday morning. I guess this is Charles bound out of
New York City, Brooklyn, to be exact, and we're talking
politics with Charles, and Charles has to put a lot
on your plate before you left. So I'm gonna let
you just flesh it out and tell us what's going on,
especially with the race. And also let me throw in
Jerry Nattle as a resignation as well, because you know
the players in this game that's being played out in

(18:53):
your city. So go ahead and finish your thought and
then get into that for you.

Speaker 6 (18:56):
Yes, I was saying that we really need to study
with colonialism is domestic colonialism here in America, because this
is what the two party system perpetuates. So it doesn't
matter whether you well, it does matter a little bit
different whether you get a colonial administration headed by a

(19:16):
Democrat or a colonial administration headed by a Republican. Fundamentally,
you're still going to be in poverty, You're still going
to have imperialist wars. Abroad, but you know, you'll get
an extreme right like Trump and it gets even worse.
So what happens is he is attempting to turn our

(19:38):
cities into police states controlled by him, and that will
lead to the controlling eventually of the economy. And he'll
use the justification of bringing down crime. But there's a
more sinister form of oppression occurring and has historically occurred
in African nations and now here domestically in New York.

(20:00):
And that's called neo colonialisms. So the new way to
colonize us is to put black faces in high places,
and they will continue to perpetuate the economic, political, and
military and police agenda of the colonial forces in America
like the Trumps, Democrats, and Republicans. So here and you

(20:23):
brought it up and give you a good an example
of that. The young people rose up in Ferguson and
they said we are not going to have this killing
us and then with impunity, and so Ferguson had a rebellion,
an uprising. It wasn't a riot, it was an uprising. Yes,
it was spontaneous. And people criticize these young folks for

(20:46):
rising up and tearing up the place. And you know,
reacting the way they did. However, I remember telling people
at the time that that's going to lead to a
change in the political structure of Ferguson, because at that time,
you know, the everybody was white. The mayor was white,

(21:06):
the police force in chiefs was white and one or
two blacks. The city council was white, the border education
was white. When the uprising came of the black youth,
warned people and I said, listen, I know this is
happening now, but you better prepare to get black radicals, progressives,

(21:30):
independent folk ready for election because they're going to give
in and they're going to put black faces in these
high places in Ferguson. And that's exactly what they did.
So now they have black mayors that have a black
police chiefs, that have more blacks on the school board,
and more blacks in the city council. But these are

(21:50):
neo colonial puppets of the Democratic Party. So nothing's going
to substantially change in Ferguson until we have a rebellion
against them, an organized rebellion against neo colonialism, so that
we will then have independent blacks who are not sick offhants.

(22:12):
Those who are in power and those whose motivation is
their personal ambition over our collective liberation. And so they'll
suck up to people in power, white men in particular
in the Democratic Party, They'll suck up to them. They'll
kiss parts of the anatomy they ought not to be
kissing for their own personal gain and not our liberation.

(22:35):
So this is what's happening across the country. In New
York is a perfect example of a neo colonial state.
In New York, we have a black mayor, Eric Adams,
who is going to cooperate with Donald Trump, I believe,
and unfortunately, the way the race is going in New York,

(22:56):
Eric probably will not be around after November four, after
January first of next year, because he's last in the
polls right now. The latest poll has a Zoran Mamdani,
the candidate of the Democratic Socialists of America. He's in
first in the polls at forty some are percent, and

(23:19):
then followed by Cuomo, the disgraced, despicable, corrupt former governor
who had to resign and disgrace. He's in second with
about twenty something percent of the vote, and then Curtis Leva,
a right wing idiot, He's in third in the polls
and Eric Adams is last. He's at seven percent. He's

(23:43):
even behind Sleiva. I know people think Slewa has a
shot at winning. I don't think he does. You know,
time will tell, but I don't even think a lot
of the Republicans are going to support him because they
know he can win. My concern is that the Republicans
might go with Clomo because they'll see that Clomo is

(24:07):
the strongest opposition to Mam Donnie. They're trying to get
Eric Adams out of the race so they would have
a single candidate against Mamdanni. One of the candidates adopted
out already, but they're trying to get clear the field
so it'll be Mam Donnie versus uh Governor Clomo. But
Eric is too ego centric for that. I don't think

(24:30):
he would well.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Be here for a second. Here Charles at twenty six
after the top of their family, just waking up the force.
You hearing is Charles Brown, from New York City's former
New York City Council, City councilor assemblymen as well. Charles
has Mandannie received any support from the standard Republicans like
the Governor Jeffries and the rest of the you know,
elected official large elected officials in the city. Has he

(24:54):
received their endorsement yet or are they still sitting on
the fence.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
Well, he is not has not receive the endorsement the
HA King Jeffries. And now people just need to know
that HA King Jeffrins Jeffries is controlled by APAC, the
Jewish lobbying group he had, they haven't given him permission yet,
so he's not going to move on, Donnie. And here
you have the head of the Democratic Party who hasn't

(25:19):
even you know, endorsed the Democratic nominee usually called when
you have a Democratic primary in New York City, the
Democratic nominee in the city that is like sixty seventy
eighty ninety percent Democratic, the nominee is a shoeing in

(25:42):
general and the general election and all of the party
leadership fall falls in line. Well, not Jeffries, and not
Yvette Clark, and not congress woman from Brooklyn, and not
Chuck Schumer of Jewish US Senator from New York and
several others have not fallen in line. They're sitting on

(26:05):
the fence. They've been having meetings and they what you're
meeting about that show nominee, so what's the problem. But
obviously they have to get permission from their masters, which
is a PAC and some other high officials in the
Democratic Party that people don't know about, like Wall Street
and like the real estate industry. These are entities that

(26:32):
fund the Democratic parties. So they are sitting on offense
with a few others. And then there are some who
are just sell out hypocrites. They went from being partied
loyalists and talking against Mamdani and them when they thought
he was winning. So some of them slipped over and
now are endorsing him, like Latrisia James, the Attorney General.

(26:55):
In the night of the election, she was in aj
and Adams uh you know, concession gathering and saying, you know,
we tried because that was her candidate in the uh
you know, mayor o primary. The same night, she left
Adrian once she's lost and went to Zoran Mandani's celebration

(27:18):
and I'm looking on TV and there she is introducing
you know, wow, it's incredible.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
Right because he's he's what's bubbling to Charles and finally
just checking into Charles Barnshaw, I guess from New York City. Charles.
They the Republicans hope that Mundannie wins so they can
use that nationwide to say this is what the Democracratic
Party represents, they represent what Mandannie is. Do you think this?
Do you think that tactic is a play? If it is,

(27:48):
can it work?

Speaker 6 (27:51):
Absolutely? It could work. But you know, for us, we're
looking at the implosion of both parties. Let them fight
each other. You know, they'll probably have no choice but
to go with Mom Donnie with critical support because he's
going to fall in line. Eventually, his socialist ideology will

(28:11):
go out of the window. The political pragmatism will take over,
and he'll be more progressive than any of the other
candidates in the race. You know. But others are not
an option. They're so horrible they're not an option. Zoran
is progressive on the issues. But some of us are
not dancing in the street because we know that for
the black community, we have to formulate, which we did.

(28:34):
We are organizing groups called the Black Coalition, the Black
Solidarity Coalistion. We just formulated that a bunch of major
Black groups in New York, Nation of Islam, December twelfth Movement,
my Operation Power, some union leaders and clergy. We've decided

(28:54):
we would come together to probably have no choice but
to assicial endorse Zorn, but with critical support in the
sense that we want him to and we'll be meeting
with him shortly to support a black agenda. So that's
what we put in place, and even beyond the November

(29:16):
fourth election, it is time for us to put together
black independent political structures and movements and organizations, coalitions and
alliances so that we can then begin to impact local
politics in these cities across the country. So we're putting that,

(29:38):
we're putting that together now, and we're going to see
what he's made of with us, see how he responds
to our gender. Because remember, getting elected is one thing.
You also have to govern after you're in. And we
have to develop a force because right now the only
forces that get people elected in New York City is

(29:59):
the democ Party they work in Families Party, and the
Democratic Socialists of America. All of those are white dominated organizations,
even if they fronting black faces. So now we're putting
together this coalition, this Black Solidarity Coalition, so that we

(30:21):
can now say we're going to run candidates and then
instead of running around trying to meet with ha King
Jeffries and other black leaders and going into black churches
to make it appears though you you know, really down
with the black community. We will have an organized structure
to say this is another segment of the black community,

(30:45):
black radicals that you can no longer ignore, and therefore
we can have a force in New York City that
would be independent. It'll be similar to my Operation Power,
our Operation Power organization. We got elected an ASA and I,
as you know, over the years about thirty four years
combined when we had seats in the Assembly and seats

(31:08):
in the City Council until we are now training others
to win for that's thirty four years. So now we
got elected independent of the Democratic Socialist and the Republican body,
independent of the Democratic Party and all of those groups.
And we started Operation Power. Well that was in East
New York and we succeeded. We want that to now

(31:30):
be a city wide effort and calling it the Black
Solidarity Coalition.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Well, let me interrupt you here at twenty seven away
from the top, does he have any blacks in a
circle that you know of the Black Committee.

Speaker 6 (31:48):
Look at his top echellent, it's a little or no
blacks in his inner circle. He's going beyond the inner circle,
outside of the perimeter and in the unite with the
black Democrats that are not afraid to be with him,
or the black democratical hustlers hypocrites who now or were

(32:10):
against him, And so he's going to them. He's going
to black clergy that's you know, usually with unions or
the Democratic Party. He is not dealing right now with
black radicals in any blacks in his inner circle. So
this is why when we meet with him, these things
are going to be confronted. He is for reparations. He

(32:32):
has supported taxing the rich. I was with him in
the Estate Assembly and we was together on a lot
of the issues. He voted against a lot of the
budgets with me. So he has the tendency to do that.
But we'll find out how far he'll go with that.
Right now, he's way better than the others. And it's

(32:54):
not really a lesser or too evil situation here because
we're not into that. He was actually progressive on the issues.
But his structure, like the d ESA's upper at amount structure,
is white an Asian or white in Indian.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
And so then we will reach again Charles. I know
we want to talk about the shale nations, and we've
got a break coming up. But after Labor Day this
because you're a politician, you're in New Yorker, you understand.
After Labor Day this is when the campaigning starts in
earnest and there's a lot of money. When I say,
a lot of money is going to be flooded into

(33:31):
New York City starting this week. H Mosco is going
to be involved, all the Wallstreet fat cats are going
to be involved, and they're gonna be throwing their money
against the mandannie. But it seems they have not coalesced
on which candidate they want to back. Clomo is boasting
that Trump's going to support him, so I guess they'll
wait to see if Trump does that and then the

(33:52):
cash will start flowing to that particular candidate. How important
is money, especially in a race like this in New
York City.

Speaker 6 (34:00):
Money is always extremely important, But money doesn't vote. People vote,
So it's very very important for you to get a
massive number of volunteers, and Mamdani has that and even money.
He outraised the other candidates in this quarter, so he's
outraised them even with money, and Eric Adams and others,

(34:20):
they have money. But as long as there's Eric Adams
and Cromo in the race and what's his name, Curtis
Leewan in the race, they are going to split up
the opposition to Mamdani. And so he is leading in
the poems that forty some percent.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
But you know, polls could.

Speaker 6 (34:39):
Always be wrong, and they have been wrong in the
past on several occasions. So I think he still has
a very good chance of winning. And yes, they are
going to team up, but you know, there's a lot
of people against them, the same foco against them in
the Democratic primary and they didn't win. He only got
twenty some of percent of the black votes in the primary.

(35:02):
Cuomo unfortunately got forty some off the center of the
black vote. I don't think that's going to happen again.
That might change. So, yes, they're going to do that
because of the greed of Wall Street. He met with
business men on Wall Street, he is meeting with the
real estate industry, he's meeting with the police. So he's

(35:25):
doing all of those things which I have concerns about.
I know, as a mayoral candidate you have to do that,
but how much influence are they going to have on him?
And how much influence will he allow for the black
radical elements in New York to have on him? Time
will tell. But regardless of who becomes mayor, this is

(35:49):
a message I want to give to all of our
people across the country in this electoral arena, it is
time for us to build in dependent political structures. Even
if you run in a Democratic primary, you have to
be independent of the Democratic Party because of towns that
we live in that are our people blindly vote Democratic.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
So you may that.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Charles hold that thought right. Then I'll let you expound
on that. When we get back. We check the news,
and I also want to get back give us. I
want you to give us an update what's going on
in the sale nations on the continent. Family are just
joining us, I guess as Charles Baron, a former New
York City New York City lawmakers, is with us. We're
talking politics with Charles, We're going to talk about international
relationships as well. You got a question of comment, reach
out to us at eight hundred and four or five

(36:35):
zero seventy eight seventy six. Don't take your phone calls
after the news. What's next?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Now back to the Carl Nelson Show.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
And Grand Rising family. Thanks for waking up with us
on this Wednesday morning. Happy hump Day too. You were
halfway through the work week. Go already that after this,
it's Downhill Hall the way. Our guess is Charles Baron.
Charles a former New York lawmaker, city councilmber also assembly
men in Albany as well. And we're discussing politics with
Charles before we go back to you, I'm just remind
you coming up later this morning, you're gott to hear

(37:29):
from Jeff Gallup. He's an investigative reporter out of Central Florida.
He's always share some of the stories he's working on
for his newspaper. Also, the Faith Brothers will be here,
but we were going to end the day with Egyptian scholar.
This is a renown Egyptian scholl. Those of you in
the business know who he is. Is also a medical
Doctee's one of our the smart brothers that we have.
That'd be doctor Charles Finch. He's going to preview his

(37:51):
new book called African Medicine. And tomorrow we're going to
be joining another top This is scholar, an archaeologist and educator,
doctor Cheryl La Roache she's going to talk about the
the Underground Railroad. It's going to share with us some
of the players that you may not have known. Some
of the entities were involved in the Underground Railroad. Also
not one of the smart sisters that we have, scientists

(38:11):
and medical doctor, doctor Velvet Bows just back from the
Shale Nations and Ghana. She's going to share with us
to some of the things that she found out on
her trip. So make sure if you're in Baltimore that
you're radios locked in to ten ten WLB. If you're
in the DMV, we're on FM ninety five point nine
and AM fourteen fifteen WL. All right, Charles, how much
you finish your thought then let's pivot to what's going

(38:32):
on in Sahale Nations.

Speaker 6 (38:35):
Yes, before we get to sa Hella, I just wanted
to finish that thought of It is important for independent
black radical folk across the country to do two things.
We have to begin to three things. Actually, we have
to begin to make sure that we take it to
the streets, massive demonstrations in the streets. We also have

(38:56):
to build independent political structures that's going to run black
radical candidates in the democratic primary and if necessary, in
the general elections across the country independent structures. Even if
you're in the Democratic primary, you don't have to be
loyal to the Democratic Party. Use it as a tactic

(39:18):
and extrategy. And then mobilizing in the streets is important
because neo colonial black sickle fence sell out puppets of
the Democratic Party are also a misleadership class that organizes
massive demonstrations in the street. So what they'll do is
they'll mislead the black community into these massive demonstrations that

(39:40):
lead nowhere. Even some of the civil rights leaders that
usually annually remember Carl the March to Washington because it's
the annual march that they do on our April August
twenty eight, because that's the the anniversary of the March

(40:01):
on Washington in nineteen sixty three. Didn't you find it
interesting that this year Al Shompton led a march to
Wall Street instead of Washington DC. Whether it there's any
year they needed to go to Washington, d C. With
their annual march, it was this year because they would

(40:23):
have confronted Trump and his troops in Washington, but instead
they came up with the march, funded by unions and
the Democratic Party to Wall Street to talk about BEEI
and even if you're going to go to Wall Street,
at least talk about capitalism, colonial capitalism, why the system

(40:45):
must be dismantled. But it is this blackness leadership class
that we have to organize against across the country and
mobilizing in the streets and fight these neo colonial black
puppets of the Democratic Party in democratic primaries and in
general elections.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yeah, that was an interesting move. But what's going on
the Sale Nations at twelve away from the top of.

Speaker 6 (41:09):
Charles Well, you know, I think our people must understand this. Also,
I was meeting with one of my brothers that I
highly respect and want to support in his adventures, and
he was saying, what does does the Hell Nations have
to do with me here in New York and me
here in Halemore in Brooklyn. I said everything, Because the

(41:30):
same colonial class that are oppressing African nations, the same
imperialist powers, are the ones that are oppress in you domestically,
in your communities. So their liberation is linked to our liberation.
And we're in the belly of the beast, and it's
time for us to rise up and become independent. From

(41:50):
this beast. So the blows that they strike against the
imperialist powers across the world are the same. Imperialist colonial
power was like the Donald Trumps, like the Democratic Party
presidents that are oppressing us domestically and maintaining our poverty here.
So as they win, we win. As we win, they win.

(42:12):
So and to help as just so that the people
can Just a quick reminder. In twenty twenty one, it
started in Mali when the Simeon Goals and military leader,
he led a coup d'eta in Mali and they took
out the neo colonial black government that France and America

(42:35):
popped up in Ecowas. Ekowasa is the Economic Community of
West African states. These are the neo colonial puppets, about
fifteen of them on the west coast of Africa in
West Africa. So they had a coup d'etar. The youth,
the young people led that with the military and took

(42:56):
out that puppet government. And then in twenty twenty two,
Quino Fassio followed. They did the same thing, took out
the puppet government and brother Ibraham Treore who became the
most popular of all of them, and Bikino FASIL, led
by youth supporting the military, took out their puppet government.

(43:17):
And then in twenty twenty three, Nijeev did the same
thing with General Titiani. He did the same thing that
they did in Mali and Pequino Fasil and they became
the Alliance of the Health States, the AEES the Alliance
of the Health States in twenty twenty three. Well, since
they've done that, they were able to nationalize the mining industries.

(43:40):
Where the gold is, where the copper is, the uranium is,
where all of the natural resources that Europe would not
be Europe without the pillage and rape and insteat of
African resources and labor. So they had successfully done that.

(44:00):
They did that. They then said, we're going to get
rid of the CFA, frank the currency, and we're going
to have our own currency. We're going to kick France
out of Africa, and they did that. They kicked the
military out and the Canadian companies and other Western mining companies,
they kicked them out and arrested them. So now these

(44:22):
countries are taking over their resources for Africans. They formed
alliances of Russian, China, Turkey and other countries.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
They joined the.

Speaker 6 (44:31):
Alliance that's being put together. The bricks groups they joined them.
That's Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, and twenty five
other countries that are moving away from the International Monetary
Fund and the World Bank. So they joined this having
their own currencies. Now the unit they did all of that,

(44:53):
and now their countries are coming back because the gold
is used for the Bikino Fassil people and so with
the uranium. So they did this and they were able
to change the French streets of their names and street
names to African names. They were able to even produce
electric cars and all of this, and people tried to say, oh, no,

(45:13):
that's not really happening, but it is. And yet there's
still some struggling and the economy because France and America,
who they're kicking out, they popped up terrorist groups. So
they got to fight terrorism in all three countries and
fight the economy, fight the Franks, fight the American They
kicked out Africom. The American bases in their country, so

(45:35):
they kicked out Africom, they kicked out the French, and
they'd taken over the resources. They were able to im
begin a.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Fast right and then let me tell me here for
a second, because exactly that's what they did at seven
minutes away from the top there with Charles Barron out
of New York. But Charles then they negotiated contract with
Russian groups like the Wagoner group. So basically they're trading.
They're not giving them money to France, but they're mortgaging
their minerals and gold now to Russia and all these

(46:01):
other entities are supposedly keeping the other, you know, stopping
the revenge from there from the country that they that
they overthrew. Does that make any sense that if the
money's gone from one hand to another, it's not actually
staying in the hell Nations because they got to pay
for security and the people that they're paying to secure
them Russians, these uh, these troops like the Wagner Group,

(46:23):
explain that.

Speaker 6 (46:24):
I'm glad that you raise that because their relationship with
Russia and China is mutually beneficial. Russia and China, they're
not building military bases in the the health states. We
have intelligent, strong, powerful leaders in the health regions. They
are not trading their oppression from the Western states of

(46:49):
France and the United States to be economically colonized by
Russia and China. That is not happening. From all of
the forces that are spoken to, and these are people
who've been there, These are people from the mission itself,
from Bikino, Faso, and others. That is not happening. They're

(47:10):
having mutually beneficial relationships. All countries have relationships with the
countries of the world. United States deals with Russian, United
States deals with China. Is anybody saying that, you know,
China is controlling America when their largest debt is to China.
America has thirty six trillion dollars in debt and some

(47:33):
of it is to Japan, some of it is to China.
But is anybody saying that these countries are controlling America
because America is trading with them or America is in
debt with them. Remember, China and Russia have no history
of colonizing Africa. That's why most of us don't speak

(47:54):
Chinese or Russian. We speak English in France and French
and Portuguese because that was the colonizers. And people are
trying to make it appear as though these leaders haven't
learned a lesson in history, that these leaders are weak
and trading oppressors. They're not doing that, not in the
to Hell and not in some of the other countries

(48:15):
that will be joining the Sahell Alliance, like Chad, and
they're looking at Togo and some other countries. So that's
just not happened.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Happening.

Speaker 6 (48:24):
They want people to believe that, yes they are dealing
with Russia, Yes they are trading with Russia. This is
why it's going to be difficult to overthrow them, because
they had an attempted coup and molly just recently, but
because they.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Are and hold I thought there right there, we've got
to step aside and check the traffic and weather at
different cities. When we come back, though, we want to
hear about this attempted coop because now a lot of
the information charlesing, you know, that doesn't get reported on
this side of the ocean, and what's going on in Africa,
especially African nations, they sort of ignore it. So I'll
let you explain what in that attempt to coop, who
was behind it, and what happened, because if they dude

(49:04):
in one of these Hell nations, they'll try it in
the others as well. As I mentioned, it's four minutes
away from the top of the hour. We got to
check the traffic and weather or not different cities. Family,
you got a question for Charles Baron, reach out to
us at eight hundred and four or five zero seventy
eight seventy six and we'll take you a phone call
to the traffic update.

Speaker 7 (49:18):
That's next.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
You're fucking with the Most submissing the Carl Nelson Show.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
You're fucking with.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
The most submissive yourself.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Rocking and grand rising family, and thanks for starting your

(49:54):
Wednesday with us. It's the hump day. We're halfway through
the work week, a short work week for some folks.
I guess Charles Baron. Charles is a former New York
lawmaker and Charles, before we left you was tell us
about an attempted coup in one of the Sahal nations.
Can you can you clarify that what happened?

Speaker 6 (50:10):
Yes, you know what happened. The United States and France
are still manipulating the Hell States in terms of popping
up terrorists groups. This is what France and the United
States did, not Russia and China. France and the United

(50:31):
States dropped up these terrorist groups to destabilize the economy
so that they can then put in puppets to control it.
And now when these sa Hell leaders Glita and Mali
and Ibraham Treore and Biquino Faso and Tachiani in Nijea,

(50:52):
when they got rid of the puppets, they now had
to focus on the terrorists. That's still being funded by
France and America, not China, not Russia. So what China
and Russia is doing and Turkey is doing saying we
will help you fight these terrorists, will give arms to
support you in the fight against this terrorism. And yet

(51:14):
we want something to No nation developed a relationship with
another nation without their own agenda and for their own benefit.
So they are sharing the resources, but it's mutually beneficial
their natural resources. They're sharing most of the goals and
uranium and all of that is being benefited by the

(51:36):
people of Mali, the people of the kingdom faster the
people and the economies of Nizza. So that's what's happening.
They attempted a coup in Mali. They rose up and
they attacked the military forces in Mali that's in control.
And because the people. You can tell when the people

(51:59):
are being exploited and when they appreciated government is when
the people came together and they suppressed that attack. They
beat back that coup attempt. They tried the same thing
in Pekina Faso. They had wads of money for some
of the generals, some of the military leaders, and these

(52:19):
leaders exposed the people who gave them the money and
told the leadership under Ibraham Treira, this is a plot
against you. We're not down with it. And they stopped
that as well. So these things are happening not for China,
not with Russia. They're happening with terrorists back by America

(52:41):
and France and other European nations who are now fearful
that they're going to suffer the same thing France is
suffering because all over the country.

Speaker 4 (52:51):
Now, you know, they're some.

Speaker 6 (52:52):
Exploited, exploitative Chinese companies in some African states somewhere perhaps,
but the bottom line, they're not colonizing. They're not recolonizing Africa.
And now Europe is afraid. America is afraid because the
economies that were so dependent upon their pillage and rape

(53:13):
of African resources. You know, gold, diamonds, cobalt, uranium, contain
all of these major magnesium, all of these major things
that they need for computer tips and all of that stuff.
They are now losing that in France. France's economy is tanking.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
No, I thought right there, Charles. Jeff Galpa. Our next
guess is an investigative reporters on deck before we go
to Jeff. Melvin in Baltimore has a question for ashon
Lane two grand Rising. Melvin a question for Charles Baron.

Speaker 8 (53:47):
Yes, Graham Rising, I understand that Bekina Fosso also has
an energy agreement and a channel through African country to
the sea, and and and and call. The reason why
a lot of people don't get the information is because

(54:08):
they don't. On YouTube, you don't ask for They send
you what your interests are. They send you what your
interests are. And and so because I'm like asking for
that type of stuff, I get certain things.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Yeah, I'm just cautioning here, Melvin. A lot and many
of the stuff you get is too is fabricated as well.
So you can't be everything you see.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
Fabricating.

Speaker 8 (54:33):
But black culture dowary and it's just several more that's
that you can that's a legitimate.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, okay, quickly, your question, your question for Melvin, your
question for child on. Another guest coming up, and I
want to get him to respond. Were all over time.

Speaker 6 (54:49):
Already what he said, and he is absolutely right the
legitimate sources. But just understand this, these three countries are landlocked,
so they don't have access to ports and sea and
rivers and water ports. So people like countries like Morocco
who they had some conflicts with, said look, you can

(55:09):
come use our port. Ghana and other countries are now
extending the gratitude and developing the relationships so that typelines
can be built and other things can be built so
they can have access to the seaports and do their trading.
So that is going on as well.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
All right, thank you Melan. That good question. By the way, Charles,
before we let you go, what can we look forward
to what's going straight ahead?

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Now?

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Where the Sahal Nations uh? You know, are they still
still using their franch to the frank SIFA and this
their money's to being printed in France, Because that's a
big problem for I seed. If you're still using your
precious UH technique to get your money out there, when
are they going to be able to print their own money?
And that goes not just for the Sahal Nations, but

(55:57):
most of them, just about all the countries on the
content their money's printed elsewhere.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
As we speak. They're doing that. They're moving away from
the CFA Frank. They're moving away from that. Even the
bricks groups they have first they were just using their
local currencies for trading, and they started their own banks
and their own economic institutions. They're no longer depending on
the World Bank, no longer depending on the IMF, and

(56:25):
they have developed a movement called de dollarization. They're devaluing
the dollar and using their currency. They're doing that in
the health state. They're doing that in bricks. Matter of fact,
bricks just started a currency called the unit. They're going
to use the unit, just like the you know, the

(56:45):
EU they have the euro. People are moving away from
the Euro. They're moving away from the CFA Frank. They're
moving away from the British town. They're moving away from
the American dollar. And they are doing that as we speak,
called developing their own currency, getting their money out of
French banks. And this is why France is desperate and

(57:08):
funding these terrorists.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
All right, we're gonna stop at there. Charles. I always
love to have you. I always feel fielded information locally
and nationally, and so we'll have to, you know, put
that on the shelf for a while. But how can
folks reach you that one more information and what you
just shared with us this morning, they.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
Can reach me.

Speaker 6 (57:25):
And thank you so much, and thank you Carl for
the program. You're do an amazing job, you know, just
doing getting all these guests on. I have a weekly
program and this I said, Wow, this is a challenge
and you do it every day. So I really appreciate you.
But you can reach us at Charles barn C h
A R l E. S b A R R O

(57:46):
n O P as an Operation Power at gmail dot com.
There's Charles Barron C ch A R L E S
O P at gmail dot com. You can also get
our book online on Bomb the Noble Speaking Tooth to Power.
It's only online with Bonds and Nobles. And then they'll
also suggest that you get Omali, Yes, the Tulla's book

(58:09):
on the band Guard, the Advance, you know, the African struggle,
his book Vanguard, and you can break down a lot
of this stuff under the theory of African Internationalists.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
All right, thanks Charles, thanks for sharing your thoughts with
us this morning. Thank you sir, all right, family ten
after the top investigative reporter Jeff Galivs checking in with
us now Grand Rising, Jeff, Welcome to the program, Ran.

Speaker 5 (58:35):
Rising, Good morning from the Space Coast to Florida.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
All Right, the family of I'm famili with Jeff. Jeff
workshire the newspaper called Florida Today. That's the the I
guess the forerunner of USA Today is started there with Florida.
That's where he's started. And Jeff is an investigative reporter
and he's always were checking in with him because some
of the stories that happening in some of these smaller
towns in America never kept make it to the big city,

(58:59):
never made the national news. But it's also it involves
many times, it involves people look like you and I so, Jeff,
before we get in, give us an update because one
of the stories you reported on was the story with
the car where these teenagers were involved in a car
involved in a shooting. I think it was a chef's deputy.
What's the what's the end of the game on that

(59:20):
particular story, and if you can't just tell her how
the story for those who missed the story, Jeff, Yeah, yeah,
you're gonna have to tell us what happened. So it's
started from the top.

Speaker 5 (59:29):
Okay, yeah, this was back in twenty twenty, November of
twenty twenty, as a matter of fact, right here on
the Space Coast, we had Brevard County deputies who were
searching for a car with tinted windows, and they mistakenly,
you know, followed this one particular vehicle that just happened
to be driven by a sixteen year old. Of course

(59:50):
they would know that until after the facts, but the
driver drove into this neighborhood police. The deputies surrounded the vehicle,
and the vehicle tried to take off, and one of
the deputies, who was standing right there by the vehicle,
right in front of the vehicle, fired off about ten shots,

(01:00:10):
killing the sixteen year old driver and an eighteen year
old in the back seat. So, long story short, something happened.
Within the year of that. The deputy died mysteriously in
his shower. Yes, oh, go ahead with you listening, Yeah, okay, Yeah,

(01:00:32):
the deputy died mysteriously in a shower, and the family,
of course, pursued a civil rights violations lawsuit, and late
last year the appellate court basically threw that case out. So,
you know, because the idea of this idea of qualified
immunity is one that you've heard discussed for years now.

(01:00:56):
If a police officer, law enforcement officer feels this light
is in jeopardy or in danger, he does have the
authority the right to protect himself, okay. And so it's
hard for prosecutors to go against that because you're you're
basically trying to read the officer's mind. If you if
you got into court in the in the first place,

(01:01:18):
you know, why did you fire this weapon? Well, you know,
the officer responds, I was in fear or you know,
I was trying to prevent another felony. And not many
jurors are going to go against that when they understand
the concept of qualified immunity.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Yeah, but they key ingredients. These are black teenagers, police
officers show them was white and there was I can't
recall exact sequence who went down, but there was a
car that was coming to a rolling stop. Can you
fill in those gaps for us?

Speaker 5 (01:01:49):
Yes, So the vehicle is if you can't imagine, uh,
there's a neighborhood and the car pulled into a driveway
right and you know, turned around, and the dead of course,
got out. He's yelling his instructions inside the car. The
kids are listening to this music. They don't know exactly
what's going on. It was a school day. They were

(01:02:09):
supposed to go to another person's house to celebrate, you know,
a birthday or something like that. And so the driver
who's sixteen, driving this car decided to lurch forward slowly
at about ten to twelve miles an hour. The deputy
later would say, you know, hey, I felt like this

(01:02:29):
he was going to hit me. Fired off several shots,
you know, ten shots into the vehicle directly, and of
course this case we're talking, let me give you the
names because I always like to remember the names of
the folks who were you know, killed or in situations
like this. Sixteen year old Angelo Crooms this is the

(01:02:52):
young driver and the eighteen year old passenger sincere pierced.
He was killed also in the backseat. His mom had
just made him a sausage sandwich, set him out the
door to his friends, got in the car, and within
minutes the deputies UH tracked this car.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
And why were they tracking the car, Jeff? Why was
the car reported stolen or or they think there was
some some young black children stealing the car. What was
it broken tailor?

Speaker 5 (01:03:19):
Oh no, actually they were looking for it a different car,
h different tag. Everything it was. This was a case
of mistaken identity. What it is is that they had
tenant windows on this vehicle and the deputy decided to
pull it over, thinking that maybe there was something else
going on. And that's when you had the tragedy that

(01:03:40):
that happened here unfold.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
You know, it's so sad about that the mother has
to bury her child as a teenager, you know. And
and now you say they lost the court case, So
what what did they take it civilly? Since they lost
the criminal case? Where'd you stand as everything's forgotten, everybody's
gone home.

Speaker 5 (01:03:58):
Well, there was there no criminal case. This was the
civil case. This was the civil rights suit filed in
federal court. Uh, it got as far as the pellate
court and the appellate judge just basically gutted it and
throughout the case.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
That was it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:15):
So the there's there's nothing left. The mother had to
contend the mother's actually h had to contend with insurance,
different things like that to see if they can get
any kind of compensation that way, but there are no
criminal charges. And remember the deputy died a year later,
pretty close to the anniversary as a matter of fact.

(01:04:39):
So just a lot of a lot of h You know,
you talked to the family, a lot of sadness in
this situation at the end, what do you have left? Photographs, memories? Uh,
and the bitterness of losing your children in such a way.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Wow, And thank you for working that story because a
lot of the things that were revealed this so because
of what you did, hard journalism worked there. From Jeff
Gallup family, You've got to step aside and I'm going
to hear some more stories that Jeff Gallup is working on.
He's an investigative reporter in central Florida. Reach out Jess
if you've got a question about any of these stories
at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy
six and we'll take your phone calls next.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
And Grand Rising family. Thanks for starting your Wednesday with us.
I guess this investigative reporter Jeff Gallup who works in
the central forger I guess the Space Center area of
Florida and reporting on some of the stories that he's
been investigating. And Jeff, for the folks who around the
country don't know where the space centers, we know the
Kennedy Center. You still call the Kennedy Center or capean Apple,

(01:06:06):
what is your name?

Speaker 5 (01:06:07):
Kennedy Space Center is the name that we have here.
And this is the world's busiest spaceport. Obviously we are
located just east of Orlando, so everybody knows where Orlando is,
you know, the Magic Kingdom, And yeah, we're right off
of the Atlantic.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
All right. And there's another story that you were working
on too. The sister was walking I give was it
late at night and it was a hit and run
or something to that. I can't recall it all the
you know, the details of the show, but maybe you
can fill us in.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
Well, yeah, that case recently resolved too, and that was
here in Brevard County. We had a mother of six children.
She was returning from a walk and was struck in
Coco right. This happened also in twenty one. The case
actually settled. The attorney that we don't know for how much.

(01:07:05):
You know, the attorney was who I talked to every
now and again. She really pursued this case she didn't
have to, but she pursued it and she did get
some money for those kids, including you know, enough to
cover some college cost at the very least.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
You know, the six children are all still.

Speaker 5 (01:07:27):
Together, they're being raised by their auntie and she has
done a remarkable job. I've talked to her as well,
and that case was pretty sad because it sat quiet, dormant,
basically as the investigators reviewed car records, reviewed the scene,

(01:07:49):
all types of things to try to find it. Now,
it originally began as a sort of almost like a
hidden run but the person can't return back to the scene.
And this person was this woman. She owned a horse
farm as well, in with some of the top folks
in Bavard County. Eventually she was arrested and she served

(01:08:12):
about six months in the county jail. So it but
the case did settled. They did get that money, and
all because of an attorney who who just would not quit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
And again, the racial aspects of these cases, I think
that's what our audience needs to know.

Speaker 5 (01:08:30):
Well, yeah, the driver, her name was Susanne Susannah Norris.
She she was a white woman and passion lucas the
mother who was killed. She was black, and a lot
of a lot of folks looked at that, looked at
the connections that Susannah Norris had to some of the
county's most powerful. You know, within hours of striking passion,

(01:08:56):
she made a call to one of the top attorneys
in Bavard County. And we're talking about early in the morning, uh,
like four or five a m. So from the beginning
there were some questions about this case. So when I
got it, I was determined to try to find some
of those answers. And that meant talking to the prosecutors, pressing, uh,

(01:09:18):
the investigators, trying to find out from the family members
what the impact was on them having to deal with this,
and then and then also trying to make contact with
the woman herself, the driver, Susannah Norris, Now she was
in a question. She's in a question. And then she
you know, kept horses and she would believe it or not,
she would continue going to horror her events and the family.

(01:09:42):
The aunt, the sister of the deceased, actually approached her
at one of the events and and and just called
for justice. It's a powerful case, yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
And the family. You can just use your radio vision
and see what that case was like rich white woman
runs down what she drunk? Was she on at influenza, Jeff?
When she when she's struck and killed?

Speaker 5 (01:10:03):
This is see and that's the question. And you know,
she was in one of our popular areas known for
its bars, and she was videotaped drinking. Whether or not
she was completely under the influence at this point, I
don't recall because I think enough time had passed, right,

(01:10:25):
you know that that may not have been taken in
as a factor as much I know, I know there was.
You know, the charge that did come was like I
aggravated U. I want to be very careful about that.
But they did show they did have some test results

(01:10:46):
that showed that she had twice the legal limit of
alcohol in her blood. But she wasn't immediately arrested because
there's a quirk. A lot of people think, oh my goodness,
you just ran someone over. You should be arrested right
there on the scene. That's not really how it works.
In most cases, the person is allowed to, you know,
to go to the hospital if they need to, to

(01:11:08):
do a blood draw, if they volunteer that, and then
there's a process of how fast you know, the investigators
are trying to find out how fast at the cargo
was this person actually driving any videotape and then charges
come In this case, it just seemed as if it
took an extraordinarily longer period of time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Was money at play all of this while she was
getting the I guess she's getting the benefit of the
doubt in that accident. How do you see it?

Speaker 5 (01:11:36):
Well, all I can do is just state the fact
she again she off the bat that very morning, she
contacted one of the you know, more high profile attorneys
in Brevard County. We're talking about the driver. She contacted
one of the more high profile attorneys in Bravard County
who's pretty well connected to everyone from the sheriff, you know,

(01:11:59):
and he's known in tallahassee all all of these things.
You know, just imagine you just pick up the phone
and you make a call and that's the person you
you uh you uh, you know, make contact with nothing
wrong with it. You know, you and I might do
the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:12:14):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:12:14):
It's just that that's a lot of people took note
of that. That was something of interest. So is money
a factor? You know, there's a question, you know, is
she she got one of the best attorneys out there
delayed the case for quite a bit, but eventually because
of the dog determination of the other the other attorney, UH,
Jessica Travis, she did get charged. And also because the family,

(01:12:39):
this family UH of six kids and the aunt, they
constantly protested. They, like I said, they went to events
where the driver was and they held up signs, and
they called for justice. They spoke to the media and
and and let me tell you also just on that,
on that note, a lot of times you have attorney

(01:13:00):
and you have law enforcement who say, don't talk to
the media. If they had not talked to the media,
that we probably would not have as much of a story.
They kept the pressure up through talking to the media.
And that's why I believe personally, I do believe, you know,
those questions that we were able to ask and get
answers to that pressure later on moved the case forward.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Oh good for them. Never give up, Never give up.
Twenty eight minutes after tave, our family just joined us.
I guess there's investigative reporter Jeff Gallop. He's sharing with
us some of the stories he's reporting on in Central
Florida in the Space Coast era of Florida. Jeff, what's
the latest case you're working on now.

Speaker 5 (01:13:40):
Well, a couple of cases, a couple of things I'm
working on, but I'll start with one tragedy that we
have here. And it just seems like no matter what,
we have these stories that turn up everywhere, you know,
in our communities, but this one is particularly horrific. On
Friday night, family was gathered in their home over in

(01:14:01):
South Melbourne. And I've written about that neighborhood extensively, and
family was there and the police aren't really giving us
a lot of details. Somehow a gunman got into the
house and shot a grandmother right and then shot the grandfather.

(01:14:22):
They survived, but then the gunman also turned his weapon
on a two year old girl. The little girl's name
was Blessing and she was killed right there, body, right there,
on the threshold of the door to the bedroom. Horrible case.

(01:14:46):
Police again, they didn't talk much about it, didn't say
too much. They didn't have any press conferences that Saturday.
Of course, it was a long Labor Day weekend, and
maybe that might be a reason why we didn't have
too many high ranking folks out there talking about it.
But the family went on social media. They told their

(01:15:08):
story as best they could without giving out too much information,
and eventually, just yesterday the police held a press conference
and they talked about the life of this little two
year old. They're offering five thousand dollars as a reward
for information leading to the arrest of whoever did this.

(01:15:29):
But in this case, I will tell you the police
are again they're not giving up information. We don't know
how the gunman got in the house. We don't know,
in particular, if this person or person's if they're a
threat to others. The police seemed to think that this
was quote not random, in other words, that it may

(01:15:50):
have been that the gunman chose this house or was
in the house. We don't know. They're not telling us
anything about the grand parents or you know, how many
people were in the house. My information is that there
were at least two other children in the home. My
information is also that that house is known to have

(01:16:11):
a lot of people living in it. The mother, from
my information, went to Tampa, just like anyone else who
has a life, you know, she dropped the baby off
to the toppler, off to the grandparents lovingly. The child
is well cared for. You could see her pictures on
social media. And then she went to Tampa to have
a good time at a show, and she was going

(01:16:33):
to come back and get her child. Except when she
came back, the child was dead.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Wow, what a story. Twenty nine away from the top there,
Jeff was the two year old child that got shot?
Was she related? I got questions related to the grandparents
who got shot? That's one question. And what's the home
drug high? Because we know, you know, we know stuff
like that HAPs in those kind of areas. Was it even?
Can you answer those questions right?

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
Well?

Speaker 5 (01:17:01):
The house, I believe, is valued at about one hundred
and fifty eight thousand dollars on Zillow. It's an older home.
It's in a predominantly black neighborhood, and a very nice neighborhood,
to be honest. It's a working class neighborhood kind of
place where you drive through you see beautiful yards, older homes,

(01:17:22):
you know, with bright, beautiful Caribbean style colors, you know, tangerine,
a nice you know, ocean green. I love that stuff.
But I can't tell you what was happening in that house.
I don't believe. I don't know. I haven't heard that
you know, drugs were involved. Police are looking at everything,

(01:17:45):
and I read between the lines. They're looking at everything
from something domestic all the way to gangs in that neighborhood.
South Melbourne area has been hit by gangs once before
and the police said nothing. You know, we've had cases

(01:18:06):
where one or two young men from this predominantly black
community were linked to two to three beats and the
police said nothing about that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:18):
Uh the old I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
Thought, right there, Jeff, this is disturbing. Do you think
it's because the victims are black? While the police is
so indifferent to reporting what's going on. You know, are
they of the space where they just thinking, oh, it's
just another black person killing another black person. You know,
we'll deal with it. We're on to investigators vigorously. Some

(01:18:41):
other folks were involved. How do you see that as
a reporter.

Speaker 5 (01:18:44):
So this kind of ties into the national story a
little bit about the National Guard, you know, going to Chicago.
That's you know what President Trump is saying. There are
two sides to it, okay, now, but locally, I'll put
it by saying this, here's my observation. You do have
some ministers who are speaking out about this type of violence,

(01:19:07):
But it's fere and far between. You have you do
have a rally that's going to take place, a police
rally in that community next week. That's that's good. But
the greater question is in this not only right about
these things. I try to get involved as well, you know,
from the sidelines, what what is the community? What are

(01:19:30):
we doing? What are what are you doing? What are
we doing to address some of the deeper issues that
are going on in that community to where something like
this could even happen. Police will only respond to prime
they're not social workers. They do try. We do have
some police agencies down here that you know, they provide

(01:19:51):
money so that kids could eat for the summer, or
they try to send out mentors or for football games
or you know, basketball. But ultimately this happened in the community,
so you have to ask, you know, you could you
could flip it one way. Is it because they're black?
You know, that's beyond my pay grade. But then also

(01:20:14):
the other question comes up, well, what are people doing
about it? What are we saying?

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
You know, yeah, a twenty five way from the top
of the family, just checking in. As Jeff Gallup, investigatory
reporter sharing with US some of the stories he's working on.
In this unfortunate story that happened over the weekend, I
guess it said it was Friday. Two year old killed,
a two year old killed, grandparents, el da folks killed.
We got to do better if it's one of us,

(01:20:41):
because right now we don't know. But what a street saying, Jeff,
because I know you've done your your groundwork, you're talking
some of the neighbors. What are they saying about this
this incident.

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
Well that's kind of interesting because as I was talking
to one of the commaradors, you know, we after he
gave his press conference, I took him off to the side,
and you know, we talked and he said, you're talking
to the same people we're talking to. And you know,
I'm not gonna, you know, admit any of that or
say any of that. But yeah, we do talk to
people on the streets and a number of things have

(01:21:12):
popped up that we probably need to look at. How
many people were in the house. Police won't say again.
The only thing they'll say is two adults were shot
and they lived. The child died. But they won't say
who else is in that house? Right who was the gunman?
You know, that's an obvious question. But who was the
gunman to the people?

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
How did he get in the house at ten?

Speaker 5 (01:21:35):
I think the shooting took place close to eleven o'clock
at night. Who are some people that you would let
in your home or would be in your home at
that time? Right the streets are really calling out a
few names. I can't go too deep into that. And
some of the people are pointing to gang activity. I

(01:21:59):
don't know if that it's accurate or not. Don't know
if it's true. We can't say that for sure. The
police are not saying it, but they're looking at it,
you know, according to what they told told me yesterday,
that it's something that they're looking at. They're looking at,
quote all aspects. When I raised that question about retaliate,
the possibility of retaliation, they also talked about that. So

(01:22:19):
there's some things out there on the streets, and you
got to think about it. The mom, the pain that
she has to go through and not being able to
hold her child like this one more time, right, and
she's young. A lot of stuff going on, a lot
of deep pain happening right now with this story.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Now back to the Carl Nelson show.

Speaker 9 (01:23:10):
Investigative reporter Jeff Gallup. He works in central Florida, the
Space Coast of Florida. Give us some stories that he's
working on. And you always give us interesting stories.

Speaker 6 (01:23:18):
You know.

Speaker 9 (01:23:18):
Some of these events that we're here in small town
America never make the national news. And the one of
this horrific shooting that he just described, a two year
old and grandparents shot killed by an unknown intruder broke
into the house eleven closely eleven o'clock at night. Before
we go back to the old Missy reminds you come
up later this morning, we're gonna speak with Egyptian scholar
and medical doctor Charles Finch. Now he's one of the

(01:23:40):
smartest brothers out there. That doctor Finch is going to
discuss his new book, African Medicine. Before we hear from
doctor Finch, the Faith Brothers are going to check in
and they want to talk about how can you trust
God at all times? To your question, how can you
trust God? Especially the story that Jeff is sharing with us.
And tomorrow we're going to be joined by archaeologists and
scholar and educated doctor Cheryl L.

Speaker 10 (01:24:01):
Roach.

Speaker 9 (01:24:01):
Doctor Roach's gonna talk about the underground Railroad. She's going
to share with us some of the players that you
may out and known in the Railroad and some of
the anditors that were involved that made it so successful.
Also scientists and medical doctor Velber Bowles, doctor wiebe Back's
just back from the Sale Nations in Ghana. She's going
to share some of her experiences with us as well.
So if you are in Baltimore, make sure you're radios
locked and tied on ten ten WLB, or if you're

(01:24:23):
in the DMV. You know, we rolled in on FM
ninety five point nine and AM fourteen fifteen w L.
All right, Jeff, the question this shooting man did that?

Speaker 6 (01:24:34):
Did how?

Speaker 9 (01:24:34):
Did? How did you feel investigating the story known that
a two year old a two year old have been murdered?
I know that's a technical term as a journalist, but
a two year old has been shot and killed? Did
that affect you us all doing all the research for
the story.

Speaker 5 (01:24:52):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:24:52):
Yeah, I mean obvious.

Speaker 5 (01:24:54):
Yeah, I've been I've been covering uh crime on the
face coas for thirty years, including mass murder, including you know,
domestic cases, gang cases, you name it. I've actually this
is weird, but I actually talked to a homicide victim

(01:25:17):
before she was killed. Actually I think it was the
other way around, before he was killed. And also the
person who killed them on the phone at the same time,
like a week before, you know, they.

Speaker 4 (01:25:29):
Carried out that action.

Speaker 5 (01:25:31):
You know, I've talked to suspects. So yeah, this is stuff.
It does get to you. I say, stuff, But this pain,
this tragedy, this horrible all of these horrible events, they
do get to you.

Speaker 6 (01:25:47):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:25:48):
I was there at the pulse the day after, and
you know, and they still had not removed all of
the bodies, and I saw Pam Bondy who's now Attorney General,
Rick Scott who was then the governor, different folks out there,
all of the media. It does do something to you
when you hear about this. And you know, personally, this
was my birthday weekend and I'm celebrating fifty seven years

(01:26:12):
on this earth. But the next day was my wedding anniversary.
And then I hear about a child who did not
even get a chance to live out the promise of
life two years old, right, two years old. That's horrible,
and you know, you know, you learn to live, you

(01:26:33):
learn to move on. I'm a man of faith, God
has a purpose for all things. Sometimes God confronts us
with horror, and he can confronts us with chaos, and
our response should be to bring light, to bring order.
So that's what I see my job as, to get
to the questions, to bring order to the situation, to
find the truth. So, yes, it does affect you, but

(01:26:54):
it does not stop the mission of finding out why
these things have and then what can do to to
stop it, if at all in this lifetime?

Speaker 9 (01:27:07):
Yeah, twelve away for the topic, jeff Because you you're
an investigative reporter, what's your relationship with with with the
launch bunch of officials in your area when they see
you coming there? Okay, it's almost like, uh, Mike Willis
in sixty minutes and they see them show up, Do
they embrace you? They are they friends of you? Or
or they run to cover or how does he work?

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
Jeffrey, Yeah, embrace.

Speaker 5 (01:27:31):
I like that word. Let's see, Uh, embrace can be
good or bad? Right? Well? Anyway, Uh, it's it's it's
good and bad. I like the song says you know everything,
and I read there's always good and bad in everyone.
So I see one they love me another one? Oh
my God, it is Jeff Gallup, you know that sort

(01:27:52):
of thing. I still get that. After all this time,
you you learn to delive with the personalities, you learned
to get along with them. I was supposed to be
doing a lunch with some officers this week.

Speaker 4 (01:28:06):
I still may try to make it.

Speaker 5 (01:28:08):
Uh. We laugh, we joke. We have certain jokes that
we tell you know that you could not repeat at church.
You know, so you get along, you drink, and you
talk about how you're doing. But there are others who
if they could embrace me at midnight.

Speaker 4 (01:28:30):
Somewhere off the off the road, they probably would. I
don't know. I'm just kidding now, you know, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 9 (01:28:36):
So it is do they, you know, will tell you
stuff off the record, and because you're basically working on
the same angle you you want to find out the truth.
They want to find out the truth hopefully, but you're
just reporting it. So do they Hey, man, I can
tell you this, but but you know, because you didn't
get the info from me, you get that kind of

(01:28:56):
stuff or they just totally ignore.

Speaker 5 (01:28:59):
Yeah, there are some officers, let me tell you, law
enforcement period. I think there are a lot of good
officers that they're probably more good, no doubt, than there
are bad. They're bad apples and every bunch bad reporters, bad, presidents,
bad you know, politicians everywhere, right, good and bad in everyone.

(01:29:20):
They are mission driven. The ones I talk to who
report and who want you to know, they're mission driven
to serve the public. And sometimes they feel as if
the administration may not be serving the public completely. So
they come to me, and it's no problem. I'm here
to facilitate getting to the truth. And sometimes the truth

(01:29:41):
is ugly, and sometimes they understand that, but they still
talk to me. You know. That's how I've survived as
a reporter all this time.

Speaker 9 (01:29:52):
Family just joined us nine minutes away from the top
of that, I guess it's Jeff Gallup Chef is an
investigative reporter in Central Florida, and it's working on some stories,
a lot of stories that involve us, at least many
of these stories. And it's why we have Jeff on.
They don't make the national news, but just imagine the
stories that he's telling us. That it happens all the
time in all our communities. So if we have a

(01:30:14):
reporter's like a Jeff Galloper's out there digging for these stories,
trying to find out what happened, trying to find out
the truth, you know, will be better off. But sometimes
we don't, or if they're working for it, they don't
feel it's the part of their jurisdiction. They don't like
to be, you know, the black reporter. You know, I'd
report for everybody. You know, I'm just not the concerned

(01:30:35):
with black issues. Do you have to deal with.

Speaker 5 (01:30:37):
That, Jeff, Yeah, I do. And you know, of course
I'm not just a quote black reporter. I'm a reporter
who happens to be black. But you know, obviously, you
know my stories will lean toward reporting on the communities here,
predominantly black communities, predominantly Hispanic communities. Believe it or not,

(01:31:00):
I covered over the years and still cover the Muslim community,
the Jewish community, the church community here, a black community,
it doesn't you know, Yeah, truly. One of the stories
I just got done doing what was it last week
dealt with a Palestinian Palm Bay kid fifteen years old

(01:31:22):
who was arrested in what they you know, what they
called the Palestinian Territories or the West Bank area, and
he was taken into custody by Israelis by the Israeli
police and placed into a holding area holding celle. You know,
he's been in jail for in detention, let's say it
like that, because it was totally a different system for

(01:31:44):
six months, no formal charges, and that's that's more of
an international flavor. But I just wrote that story.

Speaker 4 (01:31:52):
What was it?

Speaker 5 (01:31:52):
I think last week, you know, talked to the family,
one of the family members, so you know, I I
covered the game. But it's not just a black black
white situation, you know.

Speaker 9 (01:32:04):
Yeah, talking back to that story though, Jeff, you know,
seven minutes away from the top with the two year
old and the grandparents. Is there a lot of outrage
in our community when we see things like this happen.

Speaker 5 (01:32:18):
I will tell you that the residents that I talked
to living right in that neighborhood are terrified that something
like that could happen in their neighborhood. They're terrified. Is
there outrage yet to a degree? But what what can
you do? You don't see the ministers on the corner,

(01:32:41):
you know, protesting or saying anything at this point. Right
it was a Labor Day weekend. We're going into another weekend.
Are the ministers here going to have a protest or
a prayer rally, a prayer vigil. I don't know. I
haven't heard of anything, and I try to keep my
ear to the ground. I do know that there's a
peace rally that's being spawned by a young man who
lived in South Melbourne. He's he's known a number of

(01:33:05):
people who've been killed, right, and who've killed, you know,
on both sides of the fence, like myself. When I
was a kid growing up, I had family members who
were killed, one by who was killed by a serial killer,
another one you know, other family members who killed who
went out and actually took lives very very sad, including
cousin's mother and a son who kills someone who are

(01:33:27):
on a bicycle. You know. Uh, it's a hard life,
is your outrage. Sometimes you get numb to it. You
your nerves are shot, you know, But every now and
again you have a case like this where you just
understand that it's completely senseless, you know, an innocent life snatched,

(01:33:48):
just like that. Who guns down a child, you know,
a baby girl who does that?

Speaker 9 (01:33:55):
Well, yeah, that's that's a that's a question that you
know that we as a community, we just got to
do better. If it was one of us, because right
now you're saying that nobody knows that somebody's got to
know something, though, Jeff, don't.

Speaker 5 (01:34:08):
You think, well, look, the grandparents survived non life threatening injuries.
At this point, my sources again tell me there are
people in that house. You know, I tell me this.
You know, why can't you say that the person wore
a mask. Why can't you say the person came to
the door. Why can't you say the person did this

(01:34:31):
that or another?

Speaker 11 (01:34:33):
Is it?

Speaker 5 (01:34:34):
What is it that you're you're not wanting to tell us?
And right now I'm trying to pursue the record so
we can find out who made the nine to one
one call, not the name, but like who, like was
it a person in the house? I believe I believe
so released a record, those a public record, but we're not.
From what I'm understanding, they don't want to release it
because they figured out figure it to be investigative information.

(01:34:57):
But that's not the case. But we're we're in a
different time of where we were, you know, where we're
seeing a lack of transparency from the police agencies and
there's no demand from the street for the police to
come out and do this if I can. Let me
tell you this. Like in one of the cases I
worked on, one of the big cases, what I found

(01:35:18):
out was that the lead law enforcement uh I don't
want to call his name, the lead law enforcement person
called a meeting of the black ministers, and you know,
one of the top attorneys sat down and said, don't
read these stories because they're not accurate. This is what's

(01:35:39):
really happening. And they went. This person went through the
case and told the ministers this is the case. When
I found this out, I wrote a story about it.
You know, Black ministers being called by this person for
a meeting so he could tell them, quote their side
of the story, you.

Speaker 4 (01:35:55):
Know, in this case.

Speaker 5 (01:35:56):
And now when I talked to one of the ministers,
he literally told me, you know, after I said, hey,
this case involves a man being killed.

Speaker 9 (01:36:05):
Right there, we got to check the traffic. I'll let
you finish your story when you get back, and we're
going to talk to some ministers too. Family. I guess
there's Jeff Gallup. He's an investigative reporter works out of
Central Florida. Horrible story and grandparents got shot. A two
year old shot and killed in a break in where
you know, if it's a breaking We just don't know.
So many missing pieces of the story, and this is
what Jeff is feeling anger with us this morning. Anyway,

(01:36:27):
you got a question, reach out to us at eight
hundred and four or five zero seventy eight seventy six
and we'll take your calls. After the traffic and weather update,
it's next you with.

Speaker 1 (01:36:42):
The Most Submissed, The Carl Nelson Show with the Most submiss.

Speaker 9 (01:37:21):
And Grand Rising Family. A minute after Top Day A moment, Chell,
we're going to speak with the Faith Brothers. Right now
we're speaking with Jeff Galder. Jeff, I'll let you finish
your thought.

Speaker 5 (01:37:30):
Okay, Yeah, long story short, the top law enforcement guy
held his meeting, secret meeting with a group of ministers. Afterwards,
you know, I talked to one of the ministers and
told him, Hey, the person he's talking about, the story
we're working on is accurate. You know, this person died
after a confrontation in jail. This happened. The person had

(01:37:50):
a face mask put on him while he was in there,
spit mask, and he died a day later. You know,
all of these different things that were going on, And
the minister told me not my problem. It's not my problem.
And so and I hear about meetings that are held
with ministers in the community, you know, every now and again,

(01:38:13):
whenever there's a big controversy regarding you know, the predominantly
black community. So it happens. Here's the thing, though, a
lot of people don't realize that, you know, the ministers
just don't have as much impact politically or in terms
of influence with the younger crowds. So you're seeing the

(01:38:36):
younger people respond with outrage here and there, so versus
you know, before the ministers.

Speaker 11 (01:38:44):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:38:44):
You know, it's telling, you know.

Speaker 9 (01:38:46):
A hold up thought that because you've got a couple
of ministers coming up and we'll we'll post some of
those questions to him. But Jeff, how can folks follow
your stories down there in Florida?

Speaker 5 (01:38:56):
Well, so, okay, yes, absolutely. If you want to see
what we've written so far are about blessing of the
young girl, the two year old baby girl who was killed,
go to Florida Today dot com uh and just look up.
You'll you'll see the story. Once you see the picture
of the two year old, uh toddler, the girl she's

(01:39:16):
she's got braids and you know her mom dressed her
up really nice in a in a little dress. There
you'll see her picture. Click on that story and check
it out. Follow that story again at Florida Today dot com.
And you can follow any of the stories I do
by looking up Jay as in, Jeff dee asn, David Gallup.
You can google me any of these and you'll know

(01:39:38):
it'll pop up. Something will pop up hopefully good.

Speaker 9 (01:39:43):
All right, Thanks Jeff, and thank you for reporting on
these stories, man, because some of these small town Americans
need to have a investigative reporter like yourself who digs
and get the information at so our community can find
out what's going on in the places where we live.
So thank you again for the work that she do.

Speaker 5 (01:39:59):
Jeff, thank you, and look, if you don't hear it,
thank you for the work that you do, because you
do a great work in informing people, letting them know
the issues behind the issues. And I think that's the
value of what it is that you do. You are
out there and you're telling people what's really happening. So
I thank you for the opportunity and thank you again.

Speaker 9 (01:40:21):
All right, thanks, thanks for those time words as well.
Four minutes after the top. They have families trying attention
to the faith brothers what we call them. Doctor Jay
Edmonds and Pastor Curry Manning Fellas welcome back to the program.

Speaker 4 (01:40:34):
Brad RISI thank you call grand rising to you as well.

Speaker 12 (01:40:39):
A right, and it's so good to be with you
both today.

Speaker 9 (01:40:43):
Pastor Maning, you know, I got to get an update
on Alta Dina from you. Alta Dina Pasadena a family doctor,
Doctor Curry Manning, Pastor Manning, I a should say Curry
Manning's out there. He was at the epicenter where those
those find. It seems like a long time ago. It
was back in January, and many of the folks down
they look like us, and they've been displaced. And so
what's the very latest paston eye.

Speaker 12 (01:41:06):
Well, we have still continue to press on. As you know,
we just see it as a marathon and not a sprint.
Our community is going to rise out of the ashes.
But right now it still looks like a country town
because so many homes have burned down, but the spaces
have been cleared and thankfully, actually just two weeks ago

(01:41:29):
I was able to attend the groundbreaking ceremony for work
for one of our families so there's those moments of
hope and inspiration where where we're coming back. A lot
of people are housed in temporary housing now or long
term housing while they put the plans together for their homes.
So things are going forward is what we want to do.

(01:41:54):
We just don't want to stop. Some people have chosen
to move on to sell their home, so we're getting
some of that and they're not getting the value that
they could get if they were able to rebuild or
go through that process. But we're still in it. We're
still doing distribution at our church every Saturday from eleven
to three, giving out basic necesss, and the line has

(01:42:15):
not shortened. We served two hundred and seventy seven cars
on Saturday last Saturday and three hundred and six or
something the Saturday before. So we continue to just do
what we believe the Lord told us to do, which
is to remain in that space giving people basic necesses, water, toiletries,

(01:42:35):
things like that. So we're encouraged, Brother Carl, and so
thankful to the listening audience for your prayers, your support,
your generosity, it all has encouraged us. It's that that reassurance,
the tap on the shoulder like it's going to be
all right. We still see you. I appreciate you asking
because that helps us know that we haven't been forgotten

(01:42:56):
in this middle passage. So thank you so much.

Speaker 9 (01:43:00):
We haven't forgotten you. That's why you know. I was
out there and I saw what you did and what
your church was doing un the lines of a long van.
But that was a daily process. But now you say
it's just down to the weekends. Do you need help
for you know, do you need donations or do you
need people who people listen to us in the l
a air if they're not if they want to help
you guys out, how can they do so? Pastomiza, Yeah,

(01:43:23):
we really do.

Speaker 12 (01:43:24):
As you can imagine as one of the leading journalists
of all times, when the when the news story shifts
and the attention shifts, and that's happened. All the lights
and cameras have moved on. But we're still serving our
community and we're doing most of it ourselves now as
a small church. But where the Lord guys, he provides.
But we could definitely use financial support, gift cards, things

(01:43:48):
like that. You can just go to Pasadena Church dot com.
We still have a tab on the front page. It
says eat and Fiery Leaf or something like that, and
give because we're you know, we're we're doing it every week.
We're we're spending digging into our budget now. So I'm
getting questions like how long we're gonna do this, pastor,

(01:44:08):
and my response is We're gonna do it until. So
any any type of support, any any type of assistance
from our listeners and our and our extended family would
be greatly appreciated. So thank you in advance.

Speaker 9 (01:44:22):
And let me ask you this, are you personally are
you Are you back in your home yet? Are you're
still you know, yeah, I.

Speaker 12 (01:44:30):
Didn't know if I told you the last time. We
moved back on officially on July eighth, around the eighth,
which was approximately six months from when we had to evacuate.
We did two months of hotels, about four hotels in
two months, and then we did four months in the
studio apartment. But thankfully we got the remediation done finally.
Our insurance didn't pay for it, but we had a

(01:44:52):
lot of support in generosity that was directed our way
from other nonprofits and groups really like you're saying that
saw what we were doing in the community and wanted
to help us and partner with us. So like I said,
I mean, it wasn't just a catchy phrase, but we're
God guys. He provides and as we were taking care
of others, we just knew in our hearts that he
would take care of us. And he's done that. So

(01:45:15):
I am. I am on this show this morning from
my kitchen table with a whole lot of gratitude and thanksgiving.

Speaker 10 (01:45:22):
So thank you so much, well, thank you, I thank
you for the work that you do.

Speaker 9 (01:45:27):
And family. That's a doctor. Pastor, that's pastor ocurring Man
A long with our pastor Jay Jay Edmunds with us
is Martin. We call him the Faith Brothers, and we
want to talk to one about how can you trust
God at all times? And you know, uh, doctor Edmunds,
these trying times. We talked about the fires out there

(01:45:47):
in California. We just spoke with journalists hip H Jeff Gallup,
and you tell us about the shooting of a two
year old. A two year old child got shot killed.
Help us out here, doctor Edmunds? Can we trust God?
Is God testing us? You think is just a test
that we have to pass. How do you deal with
it when you come to these you know, issues like these,

(01:46:11):
it seems to blow your mind, just like, well, is
there God? How could God allow a two year old.

Speaker 4 (01:46:15):
To be shot? Yeah? Well, firstly, I heard just the
end of your guests speaking about that situation and as

(01:46:37):
how the ministers reacted to to the situation, and that
some of the ministers were apathetic at least one that said,
it's not my problem. The major thing that is centered

(01:47:02):
around assistance is first it must start from a foundational
place of feeling that this is concerning myself as well.
There has to be inclusiveness. And once that there is inclusiveness, it's.

Speaker 12 (01:47:30):
That you have.

Speaker 4 (01:47:32):
A stake in this. You feel compelled to do this,
and you become involved not because of what others are doing,
but because what you yourself, individualistically, are compelled to do.

(01:47:56):
I think that there is a lack of engagement. You
actually question, you know, concerning why did God allow this
to happen?

Speaker 11 (01:48:12):
Or a.

Speaker 4 (01:48:16):
There are things that we ourselves are responsible for that
we have to engage ourselves, and that is coming to
the assistance of anyone who is a human being, but
particularly within our home community. We cannot remain apathetic. When

(01:48:42):
the reporter said that a minister said, what does that
have to do with me? That's not my problem, that
that flawed me. I just I couldn't really, I just
couldn't comprehend that being said. And I think that there
has to be more engagement there as it relates to

(01:49:07):
ones seeking God for an answer in times whereas everything
seems chaotic and it doesn't make sense that is to
be done. But also we have to understand that God
moves on our movement. There are things that we must do,

(01:49:30):
things that we must embrace when someone is killed, specifically,
say this two year old. I look at that person,
that's being my own daughter, my own granddaughter. I have
to embrace it that way. If that causes me to
move toward action, that's what I need to do. And

(01:49:54):
I think we've lost that in some way. And if
we're going to appeal to God for anything, ah, whomever
one may call God, let us appeal in a way
whereas we're asking for the ability to be empathetic.

Speaker 9 (01:50:15):
And I don't right there, doctor, I don't want to
bring him pastor Manning and ask him this question since
what you just said, because a lot of times and
both of you fellas know this, they say God is
in control? Explain that how what happened with that two
year old? You're in the fires out there in California?
Is God in control of that? Is that his fault? Then?

(01:50:36):
If he's in control, how do you explain that to
folks who don't understand how the Bible works and Christianity
and faith and all that. What do you say to them?
Those folks are Pastor Manning?

Speaker 12 (01:50:49):
Yeah, yeah, I think number one, that's a great question.
And I think there's a difference between you said, is
God in control?

Speaker 9 (01:50:59):
Is it his fault?

Speaker 12 (01:50:59):
I think there's a difference between the two. But I
understand where the question comes from, because ultimately we know
God is the creator of all things. He's the one
who made us, and the Scripture says everything that was
made has been made by Him. But the question comes
usually in a time of crisis like that. I have

(01:51:22):
to say as well, just like doctor Edmonds express, I
came on right at the tail end of that last segment,
and when I heard that statement about that child, it
just triggered something in me because literally, Brother Carl, two
weeks maybe three weeks ago, I did a funeral of
a five year old young lady from my church. She

(01:51:44):
grew up in our church. I'm at that age now
where you see him grow up and go off. But
her five year old son was beaten, beaten by her
ex boyfriend and been thrown in a dumpster, killed, thrown
in a dumpster. And I had to the funeral of
this five year old sitting laying in this casket that

(01:52:05):
had a cartoon theme. And as I'm driving to the church,
I'm asking the Lord, you know, come on, God, what's
going on here?

Speaker 9 (01:52:13):
So first of all thought for us, Yes, we're gonna
step aside past the matter. I really want to hear
the end of this story because this is important because
people will say God is in control. But God's in
control when everything's working out, Why isn't God missing in
action when things go south. I'll let you finish explaining
and tell us of that story when you get back
seventeen minutes off the top. They have family, I guess,

(01:52:34):
are the Faith Brothers. You want to join this conversation
with them, reach out to us at eight hundred four
or five zero seventy eight seventy sixth and we take
your phone calls.

Speaker 1 (01:52:42):
Next Now back to the Carl Nelson Show.

Speaker 9 (01:53:10):
And Grand Rising Family Facture rolling with us on this
Wednesday morning, the first hump day of September, the third
of September. You know the rest of the worst of
that song. I'm only singing it because if you're stuck
in your brain for the rest of the day. But
I guess the are the Faith Brothers. That would be
doctor Jay Edmonds and pastor their current Manny And we're
talking about how can you trust God at all times?
That's the topic of discussing this morning. And we start

(01:53:32):
off with, you know, the previous program which we had
with Jeff Gallaper, investigative reporter reporting our two year old
got shot in a I guess a home invasion you'd
call it in Central Florida. And the question that I
have for the Faith brothers, now where was God? So
before we left, Pastor Manning was about to tell the

(01:53:52):
story of the funeral that he had to do recently
for the five year old, so Pastor Mannamers could finish
your story. And we got some folks when I talked
to both your brothers.

Speaker 12 (01:54:00):
Yes, five year old Elijah Hearn was found in a
dumpster where his mom's ex boyfriend beat him to death
and threw him away So the question is where was God?
Why didn't God stop that as I was going to
the funeral? I didn't have answers. You know, one of
the things that I want our listeners always know is
that we don't. We don't have all the answers in

(01:54:22):
any pastor that tells you that he had. He knows everything.
I would encourage you to run as fast as you
can and as far away as you can. We don't know,
but we do know. The one who does know and
who provides and does not does not run away from
those questions or or or or shun them. But he
is the He is the answer, and he knows and

(01:54:43):
we trust him. So the question is is not where
is God in those situations? The truth is which I know,
and you know my own personal story, Carl, I've shared
it many times on this on this platform. With the
loss of our fourteen year old daughter years ago. God
wasn't far away. I found God to be very near.

(01:55:05):
So as a matter of fact, when your heart is
broken like that, he's closer than he's ever been. According
to Psalm thirty four eighteen, it says the Lord is
close to the broken hearted, to those who are Christian
spirit and then you know, then the ultimate question is
why would he allow it? Well, I believe and when
I share with people in times of because you know,

(01:55:27):
the pastors and that's what just messed me up with
your previous guests. The pastors and the church should be
right there with the community and with anyone that's going
through anything. They shouldn't have to go through a loan.
And the church should be there. Our church is there,
and our church and I am engaged with young people
in our community up and down the ladder. But God,

(01:55:50):
it breaks I tell people, it breaks God's heart that
this happens. How do we reconcile that? Because Psalm one
sixteen fifteen says that the Lord cares deeply when his
loved ones die. So whenever, whenever there's a death, I
believe it breaks God's heart because it wasn't his original
intent for death to rule our world the way it has.

(01:56:14):
And all of these gruesome deaths that are unexplainable, but
it is ultimately, you know, not to dismiss or disminish,
it diminish, it's just the truth. It's result of sin.
When sin entered into the world, then death entered into
the world, and that's what we have to deal with
in a lot of different ways of varieties. Yet God

(01:56:36):
remains faithful, God remains loving because he is there with us.
We're not consumed. We're able to continue to press towards
his presence and know that he will bring us through.
But he's able to help us through these difficult times.
But God has not abandoned us, and it's not it's
not his fault. It breaks his heart when this happens

(01:56:58):
because he sees the way that humanity has gone. Just
like our natural children, I know mine did not do
exactly everything I told them to do that I knew
would benefit them. Sometimes they just wanted to go their
own way and try it out themselves, only to not
only be disappointed, but often to be even hurt. So

(01:57:21):
that's the world that we live in. And even as
a father in that situation with my own children, I
love them. Even when you tell them not to touch
that radiator. I come from the Midwest, I remember the radiator.
Don't touch that radiator, and they do, and then they scream.
You don't shun them, but you embrace them and help

(01:57:41):
them to make it through the mistake that they made.
And our world is flawed and the terrible things we
have to go through just reminds me how we need
the Lord and how much we need each other.

Speaker 9 (01:57:54):
Right, and no, that's over there. It's twenty five minutes
after tough they with a face. Brothers, you just served
past the Curry Manning Dutchess rid Us as well, and
we're discussing how can you trust God at all times?
That's what I said, at all times? He said, God
is always in control. But some people say God is
only in control when when it's on the positive. But
when it comes to something like that two year old
or a five year old that that Pastor Manning just mentioned,

(01:58:17):
where was God? So we got some folks want to
join the conversation, fellas. Let's start with Phil. First is
online three calling from Washington, d C. Grand Rising, Phil,
you're on with the Faith Brothers.

Speaker 13 (01:58:28):
Grand Rising, Sir, Good morning, Doctor mast Demand and doctor Edwards.

Speaker 6 (01:58:34):
I love when you guys come on.

Speaker 13 (01:58:36):
Thank you so much for allowing me to speak. I
want to I want to jump on to what you
to what to what uh pastor has said earlier. You know,
one of the things that uh we I think we
have to do is we have to acknowledge the presence
of evil in the world, because most of the time

(01:58:58):
when we're when we're asking a question about can we
trust God, we're we're like, sometimes sometimes we're not acknowledging
that there is another force in the world that's that's
that's more influential, more powerful, that's that's running this world,
and it's evil and like, so, for for instance, right,
I'm familiar with a whole lot of movements that are

(01:59:19):
against human trafficking, right, and the human trafficking of little
children and stuff like that. And but but at the
same time, the contradiction is we allow the porn industry,
which which which receives a lot of these human trafficking victims,
to operate fully, you know, all over the world and

(01:59:40):
and stuff like that. So what I'm saying is, like,
you know, we we live in a world that is
that that has that for the most part, the leaders
have turned away from the Creator, have said we're not
gonna follow the Creator.

Speaker 4 (01:59:54):
We're gonna do it our own way.

Speaker 9 (01:59:55):
Just like what you were saying pastor when you were saying,
you know, children, bunch of folks, Phil, how gonna say,
we've got a boat. Folks want to get to the faithbook,
So can you put in a question for him so
they could respond thanks, yes, yes, yes, yeah, thank you sir.

Speaker 13 (02:00:11):
So I just wanted to ask man, if you guys
could it's just stumbling at what I just put out there, Matthew,
that's all.

Speaker 4 (02:00:17):
Uh, I'll I'll be happy to I think that was
a very very saling point. We're not wrestling against flesh
and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers
of the darkness of this world. There is another force
that we're dealing with here now. When someone says that, oh,
God is supposed to being in control, where was you

(02:00:40):
when this terrible thing happened? That makes that makes an
atheist point. An atheist's answer to that is there is
no God. So that relieves uh everyone from even having
uh to flex inny mental muscle to try to figure

(02:01:01):
that out. But in reality, the reality is is that
there is another force, as he said, and that is
statean that is the rulers of the darkness of this world.
And then we have to understand as well. We can
either be a conduit or an instrument or a utensil

(02:01:24):
of God, of that which is right, of that which
is good of that which is equitable, or we can
be a utensil or conduit or an instrument of that
which is not and have it to persist. But there
is a war that's going on, and people who have

(02:01:45):
embraced that reality know that we're dealing with that which
cannot be seen. We're dealing with the catalyst behind the
actual outcome of a specific matter we're seeing on the surface.

Speaker 10 (02:02:01):
Is that which.

Speaker 4 (02:02:02):
Culminates from that which is under the surface. That's what
we're dealing with. That's how we have to deal with
this when it comes down to having an understanding concerning
who God is and who is who is he to us?
And why would we trust in someone in who we
don't believe. That's the question. Believing in God is not

(02:02:23):
diminishing his power as to what he can do and
why he doesn't do. It is not deal with interrogatives.
It is the reality of understanding that the knowledge of
where we are and who we are dealing with, that
knowledge is power. That is the knowledge that we have

(02:02:44):
to deal with. Right there and receive that so very
good question, very good observation by the caller, and he
is so so right on with that answer.

Speaker 9 (02:02:57):
All right, Thanks pastab pastor doctor J Edmonds. It's thirty
minutes after the top round. Thanks feel for that question
out of Washington, DC. And now let's go to Cleveland
through Wanda's waiting for us online for Grand Rising wandering
your question for the Faith Brothers.

Speaker 14 (02:03:13):
Grand Rising.

Speaker 15 (02:03:15):
I hear a lot when bad things happen to people,
they'll say things like it's God's will and God isn't
going to put more on you than you can handle.
I don't look at God as somebody who puts horrible
things on us. So where is there some travel, some

(02:03:40):
scripture that supports this thought and idea because I hear
it way too often and I have to address it
every time I do. I have to say, you know,
you're a parent.

Speaker 4 (02:03:52):
You know.

Speaker 15 (02:03:54):
Are you putting things on your child? Is there a
scripture that supports this idea?

Speaker 9 (02:04:00):
All thet's had him to respond to Aswanda a b
thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (02:04:08):
There is no specific There is no specific scripture that
states God will not put more on you than you
can bear. There is a scripture and a series of
scriptures that deals with God's knowledge of what we are
face with and how we should go through it. It's

(02:04:29):
not just going through, it's how we go through. We
can either go through with the understanding that if we
believe that there is a God, if we believe uh
in that which has been stated concerning him, we understand
that he is a pepper, and we understand that he

(02:04:51):
knows all things. He's a miscient. But there is no
particular scripture that says, you know, he will not put
more on you than you can bear. That has been
taken out of context. God will allow, and I think

(02:05:15):
that's the word that should be used us to go
through different things to strengthen us, to challenge us, to
make us stronger, to make us as sin in our
spiritual naturation, and see the culmination of that which we

(02:05:36):
could be in this metamorphosis. But he will not tamper
with our will. He will not make us love him,
He will not engage us in a way. Whereas that
particular axiom that is used he will not put more
on us to bear than we can bear, would be

(02:05:58):
applicable all right.

Speaker 9 (02:06:00):
Twenty seven away from the top down A question for
a pastor manning though, Pastor Maning, how can you continue
to trust God when your prayers are not answered? People
are praying and praying and they don't see a change.
At what point do you say, hey, man, this is
not working out. I'm throwing a towel, I'm gonna give up,
and you know, and that didn't work for me, so
I'm through with it. How do you get to that level?

(02:06:23):
What do you do when your prayers are not being answered?

Speaker 12 (02:06:26):
Pastor Manic, Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we've
all been there in the sense that we may have
prayed for an outcome and that outcome wasn't the desired
outcome that we had in our heart or that we
intended with our prayer. First of all, as we mature,
we realize that doesn't necessarily mean that our prayer wasn't answered.

(02:06:51):
It may simply mean that the answer wasn't what we
wanted or what we expected. My history with God and
in the scripture is that he is a prayer answering God.
But but even even through our time, that's been a dilemma. Right,
remember when when Daniel prayed and then hed.

Speaker 9 (02:07:13):
Nothing like that? Let me let me put it make
it personal for you then, Pastor Mannie, have you prayed
for something and have not received it? Everything You've.

Speaker 12 (02:07:24):
Absolutely I mean it at death's door, you know, when
my when our fourteen year old daughter passed away, when
I found her her body and called the ambulance and
went through that whole thing, tried to resuscitate her, didn't
it didn't work. And and when that doctor turned to
me in the emergency room and said we've done all

(02:07:44):
that we could do, my first prayer was and my
thought was, this is a guy on the truth. I
tell people, well, God, you can raise the dead. So so, Lord,
I need you to work a miracle right here for
our precious Morgan. I had her, They're on the phone
three thousand miles away giving her the play by play.
Her sister was in the waiting room just a few

(02:08:07):
steps away. And I had no answers, and I asked
the Lord, said, Lord, you can raise her up. My
faith is in you. I know you can do all things.
And I heard these three words in my heart. I
know some people of faith have a problem with me
saying this as a pastor, but I heard these three words,
and I believe they came from the Lord to my heart.

(02:08:29):
It wasn't an audible voice, but the three words were
not this way. And when I heard those words that
to my prayer. Lord, you can raise her up, do
it now, not this way. My response was okay, God,
Well I'm gonna need you to be my strength because
all of mine is gone. I don't know what else

(02:08:51):
to do.

Speaker 5 (02:08:51):
Now.

Speaker 12 (02:08:52):
I need you because if this is going to be
our new reality, the only way I can make it
is with you close to me and leading in guiding me.
I've got to tell my wife, I got to tell
my daughter, and then I'm dealing with it myself. It
did not take anything away from God being God. I
even re upped my faith in him. God, I'm still

(02:09:14):
your boy. I'm gonna still love you and serve you
all of my life. But I need you. We got
to change the dynamic of this relationship now because I'm
in uncharted territory, uncharted waters. And the Lord from that
moment on has been our strength. He's restored our joy.
He took our misery and turned it into ministry. We

(02:09:34):
have a foundation now where we're raising money. We've got
a researcher we're funding now for this condition called CPVT
that took our daughter where there was no research. We're
funding a full time research. We've been to Congress so
all of those things, and we've helped so many other families.
Brother Carl, I've done. I just did another funeral a

(02:09:57):
few days ago.

Speaker 9 (02:10:02):
I'll let you finish your thought on that because this
is a question, because God still not answer your question.
So my question to you is, how did that make
you feel? How long did it take you to quote
unquote forgive God to letting you down? How we understand
how the way I'm putting it, that's just say a
guy could put it up, you could understand. Twenty three
away from the top, Ef w Olm and Grand Rising Family, Thanks,

(02:10:45):
are rolling with us on this Wednesday morning. I guess
the faith brothers that would be doctor j Edmonds and
Pastor Curry Manning discussing how can one trust God at
all times? You know, we can trust God when the
times the good, everything's rolling, everybody's good. But when does
a problem comes up to pray to God and your
prayer essentially has not answered?

Speaker 10 (02:11:03):
You know.

Speaker 9 (02:11:04):
Past Pastor Manning's going to explain that for us in
momentary lem interest reminds you. Coming up later this morning, though,
we're gonna speak with Egyptian scholar medical doctor Charles Finch's
going to join us discuss his new book, African Medicine.
And also tomorrow, archaeologist and scholar educated doctor Cheryl L.
Roch will check in and she's going to talk about
the Underground Railroad. She's going to share with you some

(02:11:24):
of the players that you may not have known, some
of the entities that made the Underground Railroad so successful.
She's going to be followed by she's gonna be preid
actually by scientists and medical doctor Velve Bowles, doctor v
just back from the Sound Nations and Ghana. Exciting trips.
She's going to share actually report on her trip to
US tomorrow morning. So make sure if you're in Baltimore

(02:11:45):
that you radius lontain tired on ten ten WLB, or
if you're in the DMV, we're on FM ninety five
point nine and AM fourteen fifty w L. All right,
Pastor Manning, you were telling us that I'll let you
finish your thought, and then we got Kevin in Tulsa
question for you.

Speaker 12 (02:12:01):
Yeah, you refrained, said, well, how long did it take
me to forgive God for letting me down? Right? That's real.
I appreciate the question, and the answer was I didn't.
I didn't need to forgive God. It didn't take any
time because I didn't blame God. Thankfully we have the
word of God. And one of the first things I did,

(02:12:22):
I ran to the book of Job because I remember
there's a lot of terrible things that happened to Job,
back to back to back, and all of his children
were killed at one time, seven sons and three daughters.
What did Job do? The Bible says that Job towards robe,
so he started the grieving process, shaved his head, fell

(02:12:42):
to the ground. But then then it says he worshiped.
I said, I had to take a second look. He worshiped,
and he said the Lord has given the Lord's taken away.
Blessed be the name of the Lord. And then that
last verse, we don't read it. We just read all
the tragedy. But in Job chapter one, verse twenty two,
the last thing it says is that Job did not

(02:13:04):
sin by blaming God in all of this, So there's
no there was no reason to forgive God, because like Job,
I didn't blame God. I blamed I blame sin, I
blame death, I blamed fallen humanity. But I turned to
God and I leaned into him because I knew he

(02:13:27):
was the only one who could help me and and
could carry me, not to.

Speaker 9 (02:13:33):
You know, make it so personal with it. But did
you come to that conclusion that you're sharing with us
right now. But in the moments, did you say that God,
what happened?

Speaker 4 (02:13:43):
Man?

Speaker 9 (02:13:44):
I'm your guy and you let me down?

Speaker 4 (02:13:46):
You know?

Speaker 12 (02:13:48):
Yes, issues, Absolutely, I wrestled with that, but I didn't
let that overtake the reality of who God is and
who he's been to me all of my life. I
can't just say, with this terrible tragedy, God, you're no good.
You've never been no good, because every day he allows,
he allows me to wake up, every day he's blessed

(02:14:09):
me with air in my lungs and blood in my veins.
And only when something tragic happens that goes beyond what
we can understand or comprehend or even carry, we begin
to blame God. But no one has has a has
an argument about God blessing them to be able to
breathe each day. It's when the outcome isn't in our

(02:14:32):
favor that we begin to question the whole existence of God.
And I don't think that's realistic. I don't think that's fair.
And I think it's problematic to our faith when God
has been so good to us every day. The scripture
says that the Lord is good to all, he has
compassion on all he has made. But if we never

(02:14:55):
remind God and remind ourselves of his goodness and his compassion,
and we only wait for tragedy, that's the only way
we see him. The way I say it when I
do gang funerals, right when all of these young people
coming to our church grieving, putting their bottles and their
weed in the casket with their loved ones, I tell
them every time. It grees my heart as a pastor

(02:15:15):
because I know you. I've seen you before, but the
last time I saw you was at another funeral. So
you only have come to known the funeral God, and
you haven't come to known the loving God who takes
care of you every day. And that breaks my heart,
and I believe it breaks God's heart. According to Psalm
one sixteen, verse fifteen, thank you.

Speaker 9 (02:15:37):
For sharing that with us, Pastor current Manning fourteen away
from the top day, as I mentioned Kevin's callers from Tulsa,
He's online six grand rising. Kevin, You're on with the
faith brothers.

Speaker 11 (02:15:47):
Thank you very much for taking a call and we
talk called. I called. I was in Houston at the time,
but I was calling to be calls. I need I
like for you all to answer the question who is God?
You know a lot of times they refer to God
in terms of being a male mostly, But is God

(02:16:13):
a spirit? Is it physical? And why do we refer
to God as in the masculine turn Now? Just like
everything else, we have been mistaked and miseducated on a
lot of different things. And I won't be too long,

(02:16:35):
but I'll say this. They say God is knowing, and
God is all. God is all knowing and everywhere but.

Speaker 6 (02:16:43):
In the Bible.

Speaker 11 (02:16:46):
And at one time we couldn't even read the Bible.
So you reference when you said you were going through
your grieving, you referenced the Bible. And at one time
we couldn't. He wasn't even allowed to read. So we
could read the Bible as well as some of these
other things was given to us by our slave masters.

(02:17:07):
So not beating up on you or anyone else, I
want to be clear on that is the fact that.

Speaker 6 (02:17:14):
I think.

Speaker 11 (02:17:16):
We need to rethink a lot of the things that
we hold near and dear. Because they were given to
us by the people who enslaved us. And you have
a clan who also praise to a God that while
they were lynching us and doing those things, and then

(02:17:39):
we're praying to the God that they have a sign
to us. So you know, I would like for you
all to elaborate on who is God and what is God?
And I think that we need to have a discussion
about the definition of God in and of it and
who that is to us.

Speaker 9 (02:18:00):
So I will Kevin raise the clocks. I want to
give the faith that there's a chance to respond to
I don't want to say we're praying to the same
God as a klan. And yes, the klan prayers are
being answered and ours are not an answered.

Speaker 11 (02:18:13):
So faith, well, let me say it. Let me say it,
let me say it real quick, and now get off.
We have been assigned a lot of different things that
we have been assigned this God and how to look
at this God.

Speaker 4 (02:18:25):
Also, in my opinion, thank.

Speaker 9 (02:18:27):
You all right, doctor Edmonds, Oh Mastor Manning, you.

Speaker 4 (02:18:33):
Want to say that, listen, listen, long before a biblical
scripture was constructed.

Speaker 9 (02:18:40):
There was God.

Speaker 4 (02:18:42):
Uh. We don't deal with the uh. The Eurocentric rendering
of this misinformation. Misinformation for the most part, is unintentional,
but this information uh is intentional dissemination of urroneous information.

(02:19:04):
And so therefore we when we talk about God, we
talk about that which cannot be seen. God is a spirit.
It simply means breadth, living men. Whether it's in the
Hebrew uok or whether it's in the Greek numa, it
is that which cannot be seen. The only reason that

(02:19:27):
a masculine identification has been applied is that masculinity.

Speaker 9 (02:19:35):
Has this.

Speaker 4 (02:19:38):
Disappearance of strength and represents strength and largeness. That's basically
why that was attached. But God is a spirit, and
long before biblical scription was established, there were those who
were over there that there was something that could not want.

Speaker 9 (02:20:01):
To jump in here because you know the clock. You
say God is a spirit, it's God a black spirit
or a white spirit. Let's get right down to the
nitty gritty, because the question that he posted Kevin in Tulsa,
it was basically is God answered the prayers of the
clan and ignoring ours, or we praying to the wrong
God and they're praying to the white God. Let's get
right down to it.

Speaker 4 (02:20:22):
Let's get let's let's get down to it then, because
God is not black or white. A spirit is that
which cannot be seen, So it doesn't is not defined
by a color. Now as it relates to the Klan
or any other racist group believing in a God, whatever
God they believe in, that's their business. Uh, But uh,

(02:20:48):
we don't believe in the same God. We believe in
the God that that we understand to be that which
cannot be seen, not this your centric representations. So when
we deal with this, we have to look at the
realities of who we are as a person. When we

(02:21:14):
keep going back to black and white, we're going outside
of that scope of that which is spiritual. We're dealing
with the physicality, and then we're dealing with the differences
where we're acknowledging supremacy and inferiority. When we do that.
Color has nothing to do with who God is, in

(02:21:37):
our relationship to him and who we worship. It has
nothing to do with that. There is a force that
is working at this point that is not of God,
that is of darkness. There is a force that is
evil that's working at this point. He uses God's human

(02:22:01):
creation to carry out his work. He's doing it now,
and he's always been doing that. He's drawed people into
a corner away from the true and the Living God.
Don't assign this Eurocentric portrait to God.

Speaker 12 (02:22:18):
Don't do that.

Speaker 4 (02:22:19):
That's his ploy That's what he is doing. That's his strategy.
He wants you to go there. Anytime that there is separation,
trust me, that is not of God. Now, what we
should be doing is to be seeking that which is

(02:22:40):
of God. That doesn't come through performative ministerial presentations, but
more so substitute ministerial presentations. That's taken into account, not
just biblical scripture, but the Koran, taken into account, that
which is from Egypt, taken into accounts, all of that

(02:23:02):
which is Hinduism, which is the Dadist taking all of
that into account, and coming to a conclusion. If you've
only been presented with this us centric type of biblical theology,
you know nothing else but that. That's all you know.
But if you have embraced everything and looked at it

(02:23:26):
very carefully, you come to one conclusion. God is a spirit,
and they who worship God must worship him in spirit
and in truth.

Speaker 9 (02:23:36):
You have to write no other questions, for you hold
right there and another question for you, doctor evags a
six away from the top down. The other religions, not
just Christianity, Hindu, Muslim, Buddha, hi Rastafar and all the
some of the French religions. We all prayed to the
same God? Or is God different for each one of

(02:23:56):
the different religions, different sects better.

Speaker 4 (02:23:59):
Is a different perception of who God is, say, for instance,
in Hinduism, being the entire world of that which cannot
be seen represents the inclusiveness of the superior one. That's
that's who they That's what they embrace. Uh Buddhism the

(02:24:20):
very same thing Buddha for this discipline and that which
cannot be seen, that's which then that is what's what
they embrace. What we're dealing with here is the acknowledgement
first of all that there is a force that is
greater than us. And then we have to move to

(02:24:41):
the point were we create it? Or did we evolve?
You have you have to ask yourself that question who
are you? Are you that which you're looking at? Are
you that which cannot be seen?

Speaker 9 (02:24:55):
Who are you?

Speaker 4 (02:24:56):
That's the question you have to ask yourself. And once
you ask yourself that then that question moves to was
I created or did I evolve? If you were created,
then there's a force greater than you that you have
to answer to. Now you then you began your search.

(02:25:18):
Then you began to look, just as the Egyptians went
into uh deviling, into Horrice and and and and Osiris
and and sects, and they dealt down, they dug down
into mysticism. Was that what we worshiped? No worship mysticism.

(02:25:39):
But I understand the concept. And because I came to
the conclusion that I was created, I did not just
pop up out of evolution from a paramesium or an ameba.
You have to that's for every individual you have. Do
you believe that there is a God? And that's that's

(02:26:02):
where you have to come to. You have to get
to that point. And if you believe that there is
a God, who is he to you? Now go on
your search? Now find out where you stand. The majority
of people know about what can be seen, what can
be touched, that which is techtile, But when it comes

(02:26:24):
down to spiritual attributes, which is the actual major canalyst
behind every action, they have no cue, none whatsoever.

Speaker 9 (02:26:39):
All right, hold that story right now? They got to
step aside. There a few moments at doctor Damage, I'll
let you finish your thought. On the other side, it's
three minutes away from the top of they are with
the Faith Brothers eight hundred four or five zero seventy
eighth seventy six to speak to them. To take your calls.

Speaker 1 (02:26:51):
Accident the most the Carl Nelson Show, the most.

Speaker 9 (02:27:29):
Grand Rising Family. It's actually sticking with us on this
Wednesday morning and some day we're halfway through the work
week for most folks. I guess the Faith Brothers, and
coming up we're gonna speak with doctor Charles Finch and
his lovely wife and talk about his new book. But
let's finish up with the Faith Brothers. Here before we
left for the break, we're speaking with doctor Jay Edmonds.
And this is one of the reasons why we chose
doctor Edwins because he teaches religions, not just about Christianity,

(02:27:51):
he teaches all of them. He knows about it. I said,
all of that stuff. He knows so many of the
mining religions that you probably don't know about. He knows
all that stuff. So uh uh, Doctor Admasont you finish
your thought?

Speaker 2 (02:28:04):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:28:05):
I think it's I think it's very important for uh,
the listeners and everyone to understand first of all, that
we're dealing with that which cannot be seen. That's the
catalyst behind every movement, every action. We're dealing with that
which cannot be seen. And when it comes down to
embracing who God is, do your own reaching out. Start

(02:28:30):
with Judaism, that's the foundation for a Christian faith. Uh.
Then move to Islam, who believes that Allah is one
and Christ was was just a prophet. Then you want
to move to Hinduism, which states that we all define,
and then Buddhism, which you yourself makes uh uh make

(02:28:53):
a major effort toward enlightenment. That's what those represent. What
I'm saying, what we're saying to you is that through
our exploration of those and others, we've come to the conclusion,
and this may shock you this morning, We've come to

(02:29:13):
the conclusion that he who created us actually manifested himself
in the flesh so that he could actually go through
what we are faced with. Not that he had to
do that, but he did it. Now that manifestation of

(02:29:36):
he who created us into the flesh, in the flesh,
that very manifestation indicates that there was a concern about
his human creation. And we've come to the conclusion what everyone,
whatever one may want us call him the Messiah or whomever,

(02:29:59):
we come to the conclusion that that was ya. Sure,
that was the very Christ. Christ is comes from the
word creole, which means anointed, which means rubbed by the
divine One. He had that which no other creation would have.

(02:30:20):
Even though he was in the flesh. He was able
to raise the dead, He was able to heal the sick.
Why why do you think that's not happening now? If
that power was within each human being, now we should
go through the hospitals and raise everyone up out of
the sick dead.

Speaker 11 (02:30:40):
We could go through the.

Speaker 4 (02:30:40):
Graveyard and raise everyone out of the dead from the dead. No,
but there is a process of understanding. First of all,
do you believe that's who he is? That's that's the process.
You don't serve someone.

Speaker 6 (02:30:57):
You don't believe you.

Speaker 9 (02:31:00):
We're gonna have to table the conversations for another time.
It was just flat, flat out of time, doctor Tavenzuell.
And I want to thank you, brother. I hope I
wasn't too rough on you this morning, but you know
I was getting tweets from somebody listeners, ask them this,
ask them that, and I'll be apologize to all the
folks that didn't get on too. Had you questions about
how can one trust God at all times? And you

(02:31:20):
know again they're saying that you can only trust God
during the good times. So I just want to thank you.
And before we let you go though, Uh, Pastor current Manning,
you're out there with it with the fires and helping.
The fires have gone away in there, but our families
out there still need help. How can they reach you?
And if they want to donate, because you're doing this
all by yourself with your church, how can they do that?

(02:31:42):
Pastor Maning, Yes.

Speaker 12 (02:31:43):
They can just reach us online www dot Pasadena Church
dot com Pasadena Church dot com and you can get
all that information and email me. Pastor Kerwin K. E. R.
WHI N at Pasadena Church dot com. We're on Facebook
and YouTube as well. You could watch the services and
hopefully it'll bless your heart.

Speaker 9 (02:32:05):
And thank you for what you're doing. Because you've been
doing this since January and you haven't, you know, let up,
and I don't know how long you can do it,
but hopefully some people listening, whether they be in La
Era or be anywhere around the world or listen to us.
What will donate and so we can still help our
people out in Altadena.

Speaker 12 (02:32:21):
Thank you, Carl.

Speaker 9 (02:32:24):
And Hulso. Doctor Edmans. How can they reach you?

Speaker 4 (02:32:27):
Oh, they can reach me at the Edmunds Group Global
at gmail dot com. The Edmunds Group Global gmail dot com.
And thank you for the questions. Thank you for what
you put forward this morning. I think it was very exciting,
very stimulating. I think that's the direction that we should

(02:32:50):
should be going in. We we actually should be going
into this direction to understand about who we are from
that spiritual standpoint and what is coming down the pipe,
because I tell you, uh, not very long from now,
there is some serious stuff coming down the pipe spiritually

(02:33:13):
and everybody's gonna see it and gonna know what.

Speaker 9 (02:33:16):
And well, let's talk about that next time. If you
see some things that we don't know, let's have that conversation.
Absolutely absolutely, all right, Thank you fellas, doctor Jay Evans,
pastor curry Man. Thank you again for all the work
that you do and all the information you're provided with

(02:33:36):
for us this morning.

Speaker 4 (02:33:38):
Thank you Paul for having us on this format.

Speaker 9 (02:33:42):
All right, all right after the topic, I was turning
attention to our next guest that will be doctor Charles
Finch and his lovely wife Ellen grand Rising. Doctor Finch
and Ellen, welcome back to the program.

Speaker 10 (02:33:53):
Thank you very much, Thank you appreciate it and have
to be happy to be back.

Speaker 7 (02:33:59):
Now.

Speaker 9 (02:34:00):
New book is titled African Medicine, A Spirit out of
the Shadows.

Speaker 10 (02:34:05):
Wait wait, wait wait wait, a Spirit Science out of
the Shadows. That's the subtitle Africa a Spirit Science.

Speaker 9 (02:34:14):
Out of the Science. Okay, So why do you refer
to African medicine as a spirit science and why do
you say that African medicine was in the shadows?

Speaker 4 (02:34:26):
Okay?

Speaker 10 (02:34:27):
A spirit science is just a word that comes from
the meaning of knowledge. You know, knowledge, uh, in all
its forms.

Speaker 6 (02:34:38):
And so.

Speaker 10 (02:34:41):
Whether we think of the science in the in the
conventional way of of just uh well, let me just okay,
let me just go on from there. And so, but
spirit science is just a way of knowing, and yes,
a way of speaking and a way of teaching. And
the shadows because African culture, the civilization, though it was

(02:35:09):
the original civilization, it came to a point where it
was repressed and suppressed. And shall we say, oppressed, and
it went into the shadows. People not even Africans lost tract.
Africans lost tract of their own civilization, lost knowledge of it,
lost awareness of it, and went into the shadows. It

(02:35:33):
says that African people themselves didn't know the history of
their own science, of their own religion, of their own beliefs.
So that's why I referred to it as a spirit
science out of the shadows, because it's emerging, that's what's happening.
We're in a state of emerging where black knowledge is concerned,

(02:35:56):
where Black civilization is concerned, because West, when we've got
to be talking about it, we gotta be talking about.

Speaker 4 (02:36:01):
The renewal of the civilization, though the civilization never.

Speaker 10 (02:36:05):
Was and we don't have time and I don't think
to talk about that, but if there ever comes a time,
I'd be happy to talk about that. And there are
others who can as well. For example, my good friend Anthony.

Speaker 4 (02:36:18):
Browner, who I call Karaka Moon, who was the chief
priest of Amon in the twenty tift dynasty. So he's
another one that if you haven't talked to him already,
then I recommend that you do talk to him anyway.
So that's the reason why I called the Spirit Science
out of the Shadows.

Speaker 9 (02:36:40):
Show me jump in and ask you this though at
doctor Fincher ten after top and maybe Alan can chime
it as well. Why did you decide to write this book?
And what was it? A labor of love? Had it
is that both of you worked on this book together.

Speaker 4 (02:36:55):
The book the book actually started, uh oh, I don't know,
thirty years ago and I wrote my first essay for
Ivan van Certemah. My wife is correcting me here.

Speaker 10 (02:37:08):
I'm glad she's here because she she keeps me on track.
It was actually forty years ago when I wrote my
first article for Ivan van Certema, and that was entitled
the African Background the Medical Science, Uh Dance Curtema. I
had written an article, an article, a letter to Van Certema,

(02:37:29):
uh telling him how much I had appreciated his book,
and and I happened to mention some of the things
that I you know, the fact that I was a physician,
et cetera, et cetera. And he called he called me
back and asked me if I would UH write an
article on African medicine. And I was just dumbfounded, and

(02:37:50):
I said, of course I will and the rest is history.
And so that's kind of that's how it got started
for me. And I've already been reading consistently for about
fifteen twenty years. Just I was teaching myself. I had
created a you might say, a university for myself and

(02:38:15):
had attended that university with systematic reading, almost NonStop, and
in the end it resulted in this my first book,
The African Background of Medical Science, and there have been
three books since then. And anyway, that's how it got
started with me. Throughout Ivan Vassa. He was the one

(02:38:36):
that brought me into I don't know, the publishing world,
I guess I would say, all.

Speaker 9 (02:38:43):
Right, twelve after the topic family, just checking in at
doctor Charles Finch's with us. Charles Finch is one of
our smart brothers. Let me just put it that way.
He's a medical doctors. Also, he's a historian each oftologists
if you will. After you've got your medical life. It's
just now you went to med school, did you? Were
you researching about Egypt at the same time or was

(02:39:06):
at med school?

Speaker 10 (02:39:08):
Before I ever got to medical school, I was doing
that research, as you call it, and I continued even
while I was in medical school. I never stopped. And
so the answer is there's a yes, But there's also
more to it because the study and the research, uh
and the reading had begun even before I got it,

(02:39:28):
long before I even got into medical school, and it
just continued while in medical school. And then what medical
school did was just give me some incentive, shall we say,
to uh.

Speaker 4 (02:39:42):
Turn my historical perspective to medicine Africa generally, and then
to African traditional medicine. And then of course, then I
went to Africa, senogal and actually met a traditional healer,
my Aji, who lived to be one hundred and three
years old. And so with her and her daughters who

(02:40:05):
were what they call dipcott which means Senegalese traditional healers,
I got my I received my first tangible, tangible experience
of African traditional medicine. And the rest of it, they say,
at least for me personally, is history, all right.

Speaker 9 (02:40:28):
Fourteen at the top there with doctor Charles Finch's wife
is through him Allen. They worked on this project together.
When you went doing your research so to speak, and
still going to med schools, did you find anything in
the research that you could use in the traditional schooling?

Speaker 4 (02:40:44):
Hen you say traditional schooling traditional. Now explain what you
mean by traditional schooling?

Speaker 9 (02:40:49):
Traditional? You went to traditional med school, right? You know
you're not on natural Pathocky, you went to the traditional
medical school. Did you find anything that you could relate
to from the historical research?

Speaker 10 (02:41:04):
Let me ask my wife that she's sitting here and
she's part of this interview. What did I.

Speaker 7 (02:41:12):
Well, the actual the actual research for the article for
the first article came from studies that was done after
his medical school training. And then what he was able
to do was in reading of in doing the research

(02:41:33):
about African medicine, African medicine techniques, he could apply what
he had learned in medical school to be able to
evaluate and criticize and analyze the procedures that were going
on in Africa. In from example, from is able to

(02:42:01):
analyze the UH, the Edwin Smiths, the pyrates UH, the
procedure that he describes very carefully in on thecessareans section UH.
He was able to apply what what he had learned
from his own medicine to what those African physicians were

(02:42:21):
actually doing and you know how they were, how they
were proceeding. So he was able to put that information
so that we could see it in a Western perspective,
that it wasn't just you know, people running around without

(02:42:47):
without any you know, as we clueless as we might
often think about Africans in terms of, uh, how how
they how they handle complexu subjects and topics and the situations.
It wasn't they weren't winning around two was at all

(02:43:10):
because he was able to actually put a Western medical
perspective to that.

Speaker 9 (02:43:22):
Right and hold on, all right, day, Ellen, We're gonna
step aside and let me come back. I got a
question for doctor Finch. Stuff Charles Spencer, Charles and Alan
Finch with us family that they've written this book, this
latest book about African medicine. It's interesting book about what
our ancestors knew about medicine back in the day. He's
only got a question for them to reach out to
us at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight

(02:43:43):
seventy six ticket phone calls in the next.

Speaker 1 (02:43:51):

Speaker 8 (02:44:00):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 9 (02:44:16):
And ground rising family, thanks for staying with us on
this Wednesday morning. I guess doctor Charles Finch his wife
Kelen is with him as well. This is the doctor Finch.
This is your fourth book, that you've been blessed to
have your wife Ellen assist you with publishing your last
two books. How did this partnership evolve, This fruitful partnership
obviously evolved, doctor Finch.

Speaker 4 (02:44:37):
Boy boy, that would that takes the rest of the
time we have to talk, so we'll try to keep
it very brief and to the point.

Speaker 10 (02:44:46):
I mean, you know, Ellen and I have been married
for fifty three years, so she has been somebody who
has observed and witnessed and everything that I've been doing
h in my writing, writing and career. And she eventually
got to.

Speaker 4 (02:45:03):
The place where she knew enough to the word join
me in.

Speaker 10 (02:45:09):
The work that I was doing. And well, can I
say she got like I said, she got to the
place where she herself had offerings to make to help
me expand and amplify what I was doing.

Speaker 4 (02:45:27):
And she has done that.

Speaker 10 (02:45:28):
You heard her talk, You heard her speak, her speak
seamlessly and articulately about this matter. You know, twenty years
ago she wouldn't have been able to do that, but
she can do it now. She can do that now.

Speaker 9 (02:45:49):
Let me ask, Allen, what was it like though for
you to get involved in you know, publishing these books
is one time you're married, you're the wife, but now
you're also more than just a wife, now a bus
this partner if you.

Speaker 7 (02:46:00):
Will, Well, I've been the business partner for quite some time.
What I hadn't been involved in in the past was
the actual steps towards bringing a manuscript to publication. We
we had hired someone to do that with his with

(02:46:24):
two of the books and the Star of Deeep Beginnings,
but that person retired and when it came to the
third book, we had to do it ourselves. So I
took on the the the work of actually bringing the
bringing the manuscripts that he had to publications. And so

(02:46:50):
that that involves a lot of work that other people
who have self published would understand. You have to have
your book type set, you have to work with it,
relations to work with other people. Then you have to
get the copyright right, do your marketing, raise the money.

Speaker 12 (02:47:13):
You know.

Speaker 7 (02:47:15):
Those are those are the things that uh, even some
editing and fop reading I did because as your book
is types that you have to keep reading it and
rereading it to.

Speaker 4 (02:47:30):
For the errors.

Speaker 7 (02:47:32):
So that was the part that that I that I
have played in.

Speaker 9 (02:47:44):
On twenty three after the top. Doctor Finch though in
this lady's book African Medicine, tell us about your work
you mentioned briefly mom Sa Tu sac and edit Gudabusa,
I hope and financing those names correctly, Buddoso, Yes, sir.

Speaker 10 (02:48:02):
Okay, all right now you were getting ready. You were
asking me, what were you asking?

Speaker 4 (02:48:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (02:48:07):
Yeah, tell us about working with them, boy.

Speaker 4 (02:48:13):
What they did is that they gave me or led
me to hands out experience with African traditional medicine. And
there's a lot about African traditional medicine that is not
different from what we think of as quote modern medicine unquote.
But what is present in African traditional medicine is that

(02:48:36):
they bring together the biophysical, the psychic, the energetic, the spiritual,
and cosmic aspects of life and existence all into a
seamless unity.

Speaker 10 (02:48:48):
Right.

Speaker 4 (02:48:49):
So all of that goes into the healing work. And
it's not just medicine. It's more like I call it
healing work, for example. But what modern medicine does and
does very expertly, is it.

Speaker 11 (02:49:06):
It uh?

Speaker 4 (02:49:08):
It does say what I want to say.

Speaker 10 (02:49:11):
It treats symptoms, but healing is the healing is different
in the sense that what healing does is that it
brings all the forces of human life together, as they say,
in a seamless unity. And and uh it it involved
not just the individual and the practitioner, the one who

(02:49:36):
actually uh does the healing, but involves the involves the community.
And once it begins to realize that it's a communal
it's a communal exercise. And so this is this is
what I was I learned, this is what I was
able to get from my long years of working with

(02:50:00):
traditional healers and listening to them and working with them
and being with them in their in the things that
they did with their clients and their patients.

Speaker 4 (02:50:11):
And you know that that that.

Speaker 10 (02:50:15):
That's about as much as I can summarize on that
particular subject.

Speaker 9 (02:50:20):
All Right, I've got some folks want to talk to you,
doctor Finch and Alan eight hundred and four or five
zero seventy eight seventy six. You can join this conversation.
Sean has called from Atlanta. He's online one Grant Rising
Seawan your question for doctor Finch.

Speaker 10 (02:50:35):
And Greenings, Doctor Finch and Grantarizing, I first of all
wanted to just acknowledge you for the giant and the
general giant that you are as a scholar, as a
master teacher, and as a researcher on African history as
well as African science and how that relates to medicine.

(02:50:58):
I also wanted to acknowledge that I have studied under
you at more House at some of the workshops that
you have given there, and have learned so much from you,
so I wanted to thank you for that. My question is,
how does this present book that you are now writing

(02:51:19):
or have written, compare to your book Echoes of the
Old dark Land, And what would you say that this
book offers us a point of departure, expanding that knowledge
that you shared and Echoes of the Old dark Land
to bring us up to date to what points are

(02:51:41):
clearly made in this new book.

Speaker 4 (02:51:44):
The term Old Darkland actually I got from Gerald Massey,
and some people out there might be familiar with who
Gerald Massey is. Gerald Massey was a giant from the
nineteenth century who wrote about to Chemi Egypt three massive volumes,
and he did not mince words. He basically said, everything

(02:52:07):
that we know about science and civilization comes out of Africa.

Speaker 10 (02:52:12):
This was Gerald Maddy wrote these books basically defining that
and demonstrating that.

Speaker 4 (02:52:19):
And so.

Speaker 10 (02:52:21):
Gerald Massey was my first major influence, and I have
got he I've continued along with what he had, with
what he has shown me. Now what else can I
say after that? The other the next person who became
a very important.

Speaker 11 (02:52:44):
Guide in my.

Speaker 10 (02:52:45):
Life, as I had already mentioned, was I've in vance Curtima.

Speaker 4 (02:52:49):
Uh. There are those out in the audience who know
him from his book. They came, they came before Columbus
as well as for his I think he's got about.

Speaker 12 (02:52:58):
Uh ten.

Speaker 4 (02:53:02):
Journals, the Journal of African Civilization.

Speaker 6 (02:53:05):
You know.

Speaker 10 (02:53:06):
Diamond unfortunately is no longer with us, no longer living.
But he left a tremendous legacy that I am, I
personally have shall we say, traveled on or traveled with
or traveled in front of behind? And I might say,

(02:53:26):
am in my way trying to continue his legacy, as
with that of Gerald Massey and one or two others
that I could name.

Speaker 4 (02:53:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:53:38):
Echoes of the Old Dark lends traces the the history
almost of humanity back into Africa.

Speaker 4 (02:53:51):
Ah.

Speaker 7 (02:53:53):
The his first chapter start about the h it's kind
of anthropological, talking about the development of man, and then
he talks about the development of culture through the matriarchy,
the patriarchy, and then he discusses religion. In this book,

(02:54:18):
he's particularly talking about medicine and healing in particular and
how it's but but he makes the point and that's
one of the things about the spirit science that African
medicine is never really very much separated from the spirit,

(02:54:43):
from the spiritual, from religion, if you will, in those ways.
So the the African Medicine Essays actually preceded the books
on Echoes, and what I had decided to do since
they were out of print, was just if so many

(02:55:05):
people had been asking about, you know, can we get
the African medicine athletes again, we decided to put those
together in one book just about African medicine. So that's
how it differs the Echoes that follows the development of
the of mankind and the culture through the beginning of Africa,

(02:55:26):
and then the Medicine book talks specifically about healing.

Speaker 4 (02:55:32):
I wanted to say something about echoes of the Old
dark Land. That's a term that was invented if as
they were, by Gerald Massey. The Old dark Land was
his name for Africa. Echoes. You know, is that everything
that kind of reverberates from there, because he is when

(02:55:52):
he uses that terminology, he is saying that is the
source and the beginning of history and civilization, and it
begins in Africa, which he as he gave it.

Speaker 10 (02:56:05):
He was a poet as well as a Uh. He
was a poet as well as a researcher. And that's
the reason why he gave it the name the Old
Dark Land, because what that meant to him was that
was the source, that was the source of everything.

Speaker 4 (02:56:22):
He made.

Speaker 10 (02:56:22):
No body, he made, made no bones about that. He
had no qualms about that. So everybody on this planet
has his her roots in Africa, and and that's a
that's a fact, that's the truth. And you know, and
then it's worthwhile to make a visit to Africa and
confirm that reality for yourself, uh, because there's a lot

(02:56:45):
of places you can go, Egypt, of course, or chemist
Kenya been, you know, Ethiopia, south of South Africa, a
lot of other places you can go and you can
confirm and and find and see more.

Speaker 4 (02:57:02):
Than anything even that we're talking about right now.

Speaker 9 (02:57:07):
Yahya.

Speaker 10 (02:57:08):
One one follow up question, UH, with regard to your
reference to the history of Africa, can you speak to
how a lot of the things like scalpels and medical
instruments are found on the temple walls and ancient chemic

(02:57:32):
and they are actually transferable to today's tools using operations
to indicate that those types of operations that are considered
advanced today were being made thousands of years ago in
ancient Egypt. I did not have a specialnymore.

Speaker 4 (02:57:52):
I'm sorry you getting ready to say something.

Speaker 9 (02:57:55):
No, that's a great question, because I've seen them. I
want I'd love to hear your explanations to large question.

Speaker 4 (02:58:02):
I think the whole thing speaks for yourself, all right.
I really have nothing to add to that.

Speaker 10 (02:58:10):
So that and this is what the thing when that's
the thing. When you start studying ancient chemin ancient Egypt,
you find so many things that are referable, shall we say,
can I use that term to things that are considered modern?
So they are the inventors of modern science and modern
knowledge and modern techniques. So many of those techniques that

(02:58:30):
we consider modern. You, as Hasman said, you can find
on the walls of the temples of ancient chemist.

Speaker 4 (02:58:38):
And they I don't know, you know, words fail me
after a while, So that we need to as people
of colored Black people need to understand that our history
doesn't begin in sixteen nineteen. You know, our history begins
no earlier than twelve thousand years ago. Because the Sphinx,

(02:59:02):
it has been demonstrated that the Sphinx itself is that old.
So uh, and you know they you know what Napoleon
did with the Sphinx when he saw the Sphinx, he
became so enraged by the fact that the Sphinx had
this so called negroid nose that he blew it off
because he did not he just couldn't accept the idea

(02:59:24):
that this was a black female, a black divine female.

Speaker 10 (02:59:30):
That was being represented right there in chemic right there
in Egypt.

Speaker 4 (02:59:34):
Well, you know, and and and you know where the
you know where the nose.

Speaker 10 (02:59:36):
Of the Sphinx is now.

Speaker 4 (02:59:38):
It's in the Louver in Paris. It hasn't gone away
or disappeared. They're just holding it. They're just keeping it
and not telling you it's there. But it's there, and
it's the oldest monument there is in history. And with what,
I don't know what else to say more than that,
And yeah, okay, last one last follow up.

Speaker 10 (03:00:02):
Question, and that is with regard to the arts in
Africa and medicine. The arts were considered the healing arts
because every aspect of the human being was reflected through
the soul and the spirit of the human being meeting
healing if in fact there were imbalances in the body

(03:00:26):
or imbalances.

Speaker 9 (03:00:27):
In the health.

Speaker 10 (03:00:29):
And so I in listening to your title to your
new book, I'm hearing the spirituality being combined with the
medicine or the science. And could you speak to the
reference of the intermingling between the art says spiritual medicine
for healing the body.

Speaker 4 (03:00:50):
Okay, all right, how's talk.

Speaker 9 (03:00:52):
About doctor Fance hold that thought right. Then we got
to take our last break. I'll let you respond to
Sean's question when we get back. Sean, I thank you
for the question, and hopefully Ellen you will remember the
question as well. Twenty three minutes away from the top
of the our families, we're going to step aside. You
want to join this conversation with doctor Finch and his
wife Ellen, discussing his new book African Medicine reach Out
to us at eight hundred four five zero seventy eight.

Speaker 1 (03:01:15):

Speaker 9 (03:01:39):
And Grand Rising Family. Thanks for making their Wednesday with us.
I guess is doctor Charles Finch's wife Ellen is with him,
of course, is discussing his latest book. Their production is
called African Medicine. And before we left, we had a
call from Atlanta and that was shown and he posted
his question and Ellen, I can't recall the question. That's
why I asked you if you remembered it, so you
can ask doctor Finch.

Speaker 4 (03:02:01):
Before we do that. There is something I want to
get before I forget. It's it won't it won't take long.
It's just something that I've got to Uh No, Well, okay,
I'm just going to read.

Speaker 15 (03:02:14):
This.

Speaker 4 (03:02:14):
And this is a quotation from my recent book African Medicine.
The role of the healer in African societies often blurs
the line between a physician and a priest, reflecting historical
unity that was prevalent across many cultures worldwide. This unity
acknowledges that the healing body cannot be divorced from healing

(03:02:39):
from the healing spirit. I just uh that that I
think kind of summarizes everything that's in this book, the
African Medicine Spirit Science out of the Shadows, and to
me summarizes shall we say, the dilemma, if you will,
of modern medicine compared to or in relationship to what

(03:03:02):
we think of as traditional medicine. Yeah, modern medicine is
absolutely essential for the modern world. But what is now
becoming more and more evident is that the modern world
cannot continue the way it is without a re examination,
re evaluation, and reintegration of what we call traditional medicine
into the healing work and traditional medicine not only from Africa,

(03:03:26):
but also from the Native Americans, from the so called Indians.
That's just for starters. We could go on in this vein,
but that's the thing that I finally learned after many
years of reading, is that you cannot separate what we
think of as modern medicine from the healing work in

(03:03:47):
a way that is in any way meaningful, that alone,
helpful or substantive where the human race is concerned. Okay,
you Carl, let me let you continue.

Speaker 9 (03:04:04):
Yeah, yeah, Ellen, the question is the Shawn's post. You
want to recall the question.

Speaker 7 (03:04:11):
The question had to do with the bringing together of
the science of medicine and the spirit, which I think
was Doctor Finch answered with talking about the most of
the priests of ancient times were positions. They didn't separate

(03:04:37):
that work, and it was a physician dash or slash.

Speaker 9 (03:04:42):
Priest, gotcha? Fourteen away from the top. Our brother College
is checking in online too. He's calling from waldof Grand
Rising Brother College.

Speaker 14 (03:04:52):
A question for doctor Finch, Grand Rising, Grand Rising, My
dear friends, my question is this. You've all already verified
that this medicine has been a stolen legacy. And uh,
we've been taught that the genesis of medicine was in Greece.

Speaker 4 (03:05:10):
With the sept I'm sorry, make me listening to you,
but Greece, go ahead, I'm sorry.

Speaker 14 (03:05:18):
With the serpent, with the serpent of course, uh and
and so forth. So my my question is that with
this stolen legacy, which really is a tragedy for our
young people, our young children who don't understand, you know,
where they were with their foundation of our knowledge comes from,

(03:05:39):
how do we get that knowledge to our children and
those who like the knowledge of where this African uh
foundation for medicine and other arts comes from. That's my question.
I've taken off air. Thank you very much.

Speaker 6 (03:06:00):
Boy.

Speaker 4 (03:06:02):
I'm sorry, Carl. You'll get ready to say something, no,
not me, No, okay, yeah, what was the question.

Speaker 6 (03:06:13):
Again.

Speaker 10 (03:06:13):
I got distracted a little bit, Carl. Can you repeat
the question okay to oh yeah to the children? It
sounds like a simple this should be a simple answer
to that, right. The thing is, we've got to do
more teaching of our children outside the classroom, because what

(03:06:33):
happens is is that once the children of any age,
whether there be, whether they'd be six or sixteen, when
they leave the classroom, they leave all study, all learning behind.
They don't even think about it anymore. They go out
and play, or they go out and do what they
like to do. And I'm not saying that should be

(03:06:54):
taken away from them, but there ought to be some
manner in which, as you say, knowledge of this kind
can be communicated to the children, teenagers, younger people that
leaves a permanent implant, a permanent impress on their mind

(03:07:16):
and psyche. The only thing I was thinking about that
as the question is being asked, The only thing I
can come up with is that we need to do
something that is similar to what we do on Sundays
and Sunday school. Christians in particular have always kept Christianity
in the forefront of the minds of Christian children through

(03:07:37):
not just to church, but through Sunday school. Well, there
needs to be and there needs to be something I
don't know if William call them Saturday schools. You need
to have something in the manner of a school that
brings this knowledge to the children in a way to
imprinted on them, not just doing it for them to

(03:07:59):
just to be doing it, but to imprint it on them.
And uh, the only thing I can think of is
teaching in the same way we teach Sunday school, but
make them understand this isn't you know, this is essential
to your future. It comes out of your past and

(03:08:22):
essential to your future because otherwise we're not going to
make it, and you're not going to make it. You know,
you're always going to be where you are and where
we are, you know, at the bottom of the at
the bottom of the heap. Now, if you if if
you are talking to the talking to the younger people,
of course, if you are going to rise up out

(03:08:45):
of where we are, we are going to rise up
out of where we are, and you were going to
rise up out of where you are. You know, you
have got to study this history and keep studying it
for the rest of your life. And how do you
get that across to the across to them in a
way that they take it seriously. I don't know that

(03:09:07):
there's a there's an easier quick answer.

Speaker 4 (03:09:09):
I just think you've got to keep doing it, start
to get you know, start doing it, and.

Speaker 10 (03:09:13):
Keep doing it without lit up and explain and and
uh and and press upon them. This is essential for
your future, your future, not just you know, the future,
your particular future. Otherwise you're gonna be You're gonna find
yourself being slaves again. And if that's what, is that

(03:09:36):
what you want?

Speaker 4 (03:09:39):
And I'm gonna ask the question the doctor.

Speaker 9 (03:09:41):
Let me ask you this about doctor at nine. Away
from the top of it all, does traditional African medicine
contradict or enhance your medical practice? What does it?

Speaker 10 (03:09:51):
It does nothing to contradict it. It takes it to
another level. It expands it. Uh, it makes modern medicine.
It gives a whole different dimension idea to a lot
of medicine. But like I said, I am a even
though I'm retired now, I am a modern trained position. Okay,
there was a family position.

Speaker 4 (03:10:12):
All right.

Speaker 10 (03:10:13):
So I know I know that I know medicine like that,
but I also know what its limitations are, and I
came to know more and more what its limitations are
the more I study traditional African medicine, and so I
don't give up modern medicine in order to incorporate traditional

(03:10:34):
medicine into my frame of reference. And that's what has
to happen. You got, we have to incorporate traditional African
medicine into our frame of reference because there's things, there
are aspects of it that modern medicine.

Speaker 4 (03:10:50):
Just doesn't touch.

Speaker 10 (03:10:52):
Doesn't that mean first of all, you know what we
were just read there is there is a spiritual dimension
to African medicine where you are, as it were, in
the in the course of being healed. And I'll put
it to you this way, you are talking to God.
You this is your way of teaching, of talking to God.

Speaker 6 (03:11:13):
Now.

Speaker 10 (03:11:13):
The other thing too, that I don't want to mention
before we get, you know, before we end. Now we
keep talking about Him and men in medicines. That's one
thing I also learned, especially in Africa, the really powerful
healers are women. And I've seen them and interacted with them,

(03:11:34):
and you know, they don't they don't make a big
thing about what they do and what they know. They
just do it, and everybody respects them, everybody defers to them.
Everybody knows what they are capable of, and they respect
them for it.

Speaker 4 (03:11:49):
And so women need to or need to take more
I don't know what the word is, have to be
more present, well present, and what they can bring to
it must be more and important. What they do and
what they bring to it must be something that is

(03:12:13):
taken seriously. And the women, you might even say, have
to take themselves seriously in medicine. They do sometimes and
sometimes they don't. So anyway, I don't want to keep
just talking and rambling on, but I think I was.

Speaker 9 (03:12:27):
That's important though, doc, which is just shared with us.
So why do you think that dynamic existens?

Speaker 4 (03:12:34):
Well, now see that that too requires a history lesson,
because there was a one time when women were the
primary healers in the world, especially in Africa. But what
happened was, of course, now the healers, you know, they
were the they were also the leaders culturally speaking, spiritually speaking,

(03:12:56):
and there came a time when uh, the man, the
male rose up against the domination of women.

Speaker 5 (03:13:04):
And that's what it was.

Speaker 10 (03:13:05):
It was domination, uh, or at least it was perceived
that way, and they rose up against it and in
the process suppressed women and suppressed the well, the suppressed
women and suppressed the feminine. And that's the worst, that's
the worst part of it. They suppressed the feminine and
the idea and the idea of the feminine, and the

(03:13:27):
feminine was first and and then at one time it
was most it was the most powerful aspect of life.
And so.

Speaker 4 (03:13:41):
That is I think that not I think that is
that is going to return, but right now it we're
still at the in the stage where it is. It
is still kind of a.

Speaker 10 (03:13:55):
Femininity, is kind of a second class citizen.

Speaker 4 (03:13:58):
But that's going to change. It's already changed, and it
has to change. Well, so what can I say?

Speaker 10 (03:14:05):
And especially that applies to the healing, the healing.

Speaker 4 (03:14:11):
Mode of life.

Speaker 9 (03:14:14):
And thank you for sharing that, Ellen. What kind of
projects or book are you working with next? With doctor Finch?
What are you guys working on next?

Speaker 4 (03:14:24):
A very good question.

Speaker 7 (03:14:26):
I'm trying to encourage doctor Finch to do more of
kind of expanding on the question about educating this, how
the children should be educated.

Speaker 4 (03:14:40):
What we do.

Speaker 7 (03:14:43):
The theme of the way forward for us? How do
we you know? What do we what can we do
to change from the position of where where we are.
And I mean I'm encouraged him to think about that
in a in a broad way from a lot of disciplines.

(03:15:06):
And also I will be searching through some of the
things he's written in the past that might might address ah,
that topic. So so I think he should, you know,
as an elder. That's part of uh, the responsibility of

(03:15:29):
an elder too to leave something for those that are
that are you know, that that are essentially be left
behind as we moved to another plane.

Speaker 4 (03:15:43):
You know, what what what?

Speaker 7 (03:15:44):
What should they focus on?

Speaker 4 (03:15:46):
Where?

Speaker 6 (03:15:46):
What?

Speaker 7 (03:15:47):
What should they drop? What should they you know, try
to get rid of?

Speaker 6 (03:15:52):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (03:15:54):
But but not just.

Speaker 7 (03:15:57):
Not just in terms of uh apple what we might
turn history and app other apples centric pursuits, but you know,
in terms of becoming people that other people look at
it and admire, you know, because our art.

Speaker 9 (03:16:19):
Yeah, I'm jumping here. I'll share to that because it's
just about out of time. But oh, that's doctor Finch.
How can we get topics of of this book now?
African medicine.

Speaker 7 (03:16:27):
Okay, let me let me get your list now, Charles f.
Finch dot com. That's one web that's our own website,
but the book is also available on on Amazon and
all his books are.

Speaker 4 (03:16:43):
And uh many of the.

Speaker 16 (03:16:47):
Bookstores across the country. It's and if you're in Baltimore,
it's available at Everyone's Place on North Avenue. If you're
in DC, it's available at Sakopa Videos in Atlanta. Is
available at Medew Bookstore at Greenbrier Mall in Atlanta, and

(03:17:11):
you can also Another website is African the JLA that
Africans filled with A K and D j E L
I AFRICANDJLA

Speaker 1 (03:17:22):
Dot com so fourteen w O L

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Dr. Charles Finch Unveils Groundbreaking African Medicine Research

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