Dr. Jerome E. Fox & Dr. Henry Johnson on The Carl Nelson Show

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And Grand Rising family in facts for making us part
of your morning ritual on this Thursday morning. Later, clinical
psychologist doctor Jeromy Fox will return to our classroom. Doctor Fox,
as most of you know, is the author of the
best selling workbook Addicted to White The Oppressed in League
with the Oppressor, shame based Aliones. I just love the
title of that book. For doctor Fox, though, scientists and

(00:20):
medical doctor Keith Crawford will explain why prostate cancer disproportionately
impacts black Man momentaril. Hopefully we'll speak with doctor Henry Johnson.
Doctor Johnson's a close associate of OJ and thirty years
ago the decision herald around the world was made. But
before that, doctor Johnson was telling that the OJ did
not commit the double murder. So I want to see
what he has to say. Anyway, maybe after the top

(00:42):
of the hour, let's go to Kevin to get this
classroom door open for us this morning, Grand Rising, Kevin, Grand.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Rising, indeed, Colonel Nelson. I'm still listening to the ring
tone there of doctor Henry Johnson and looking forward to
that conversation, though, I mean, who could this guy be?

Speaker 3 (01:02):
What does he know that we don't know?

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hey, it's the second day of October as well as
the second day of the government shutdown.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
How are you feeling, Nelson.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm still learning and you know, speaking about the shutdown, Kevin,
you know there's no negotiations today because of the Jewish
holiday Yam Kipoor. So yeah, so so no talks to day.
So at least we know the shutdown is going to
go through another day. But here's what we've got to
watch during the shutdown because Donald Trump has promised to
lay off some folks, but the people are looking at that.

(01:35):
He's also promised that he's going to make some changes
doing to shut down. Once the government is closed, he's
going to try and make some changes. And when he
does make those changes that you can't reverse them. You know,
it hasn't go through contract comission, not in session. So
that's what we've got to watch. Keep an eye on
that because he welcomed the shutdown, and if he says
something like he's welcomed the shutdown, you know that something

(01:56):
else going on. But that's the take on it. At
least it's going to be through at least until Friday,
before they even have a chance to start renegotiating.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Man it's almost as if it was timed, you know,
around the Young Kippur and all of that. And no
one's blinking here, neither parties blinking. They're both blaming each
other some sort of a what do they call that,

(02:26):
blame shifting or whatever. Uh, the Democrats might have catastrophically
overestimated their leverage, according to CNN, and uh, the Trump
and the GOP could eventually suffer you see again.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, he's where they I think it is where they're
going with that because some medical emergencies can't take place
because there's no funding for those groups. And if you
in a medical emergency and you can't get help because
of the shutdown, who are you gonna blame? And this
is and this is what both sides know. And the

(03:02):
Democrats have highlighted the reason their stances used to keep
some of those measures, those healthcare measures in the budget,
and but the Republicans don't want that in there, so
and they blame that, you know, the Republicans are blamed
the Democrats. Democrats blame the Republicans. But Democrats are standing
standing still on the Affordable Care Act. And I don't
know because some people call it Obamacare and some of

(03:24):
the other health measures that are in the bill that
the Republicans just don't want to fund. So we'll see,
you know, if you get sick with what happens.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
When I was watching a video of the then actor
of The Apprentice, Donald Trump and talking about a government
set down, he said, the Democrats will blame the republic
wants republic clints, will blame the Democrats, he said, but
you should blame the president. He said, it's a black

(03:52):
mark against the president. And that's what non presidental Donald
Trump thought. And now, isn't you if it's good for
one situation, isn't it good for the other? Shouldn't we
should we blame the president for this?

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Can you remind him of that? So I'm sure the
Democrats will remind him of what he said. And unfortunately,
I think it's on tape, right, it's on video when
he said that, right, it was on video.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, an interview. I forgot who the interview.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Because you know that they'll they'll Trump and they'll say
it's ai, it was fabricated, and you may have had
us a response.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Oh, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Meanwhile, News one says it's unclear how long the shutdown
is going to last.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
But we've seen this before.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
The most recent one, as we talked about yesterday, was
December twenty second, twenty eighteen. It lasted all the way
till January twenty fifth, thirty five days under the first
Trump administration, which made that the longest in US history.
And meanwhile, this government shut down could affect, like you said,

(04:57):
healthcare premiums could spik if you know agreement is made.
Instead of resolving the issue, both parties have been engaging
in the blame game, and of course Representative Jasmine Crockett
has said this is their shutdown. She said the Republicans

(05:17):
had every tool to govern and chose chaos instead, and
the American people are the ones paying the price.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
And you know what else is being affected?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
SNAP, Social Security and food assistance are at risk of delay,
so all those SNAP benefits aren't expected to be disrupted immediately.
The US Department of Agriculture warned that such programs will
only continue subject to availability of the funding, and it
raises alarms it could also impact the Black Federal workers

(05:52):
and HBCUs. The shutdown threatens to hit the black community
the hardest, from unpaid federal workers to stall HBCU infrastructure projects.
Earlier this year, the Department of Education proposed twenty point
fifteen million dollars in subsidies for new loans through the
HBCU Capital Financing Program. Now, if the standoff continues, black

(06:17):
federal workers also face a heightened risk of furlough or layoffs.
And there is a possibility that the President said potential
shut down during an interview with NBC News, and if
there is, we're going to cut a lot of people,
and we're able to cut on a permanent basis, and

(06:39):
we'll be doing that now. The President says, I'd rather
not do that. I'd rather not. But it compounds damage
already done by the Department of Government Efficiencies, workforce Optimization
and initiative that Elon must had it. So there's a
lot to look at, as well as the aviation industry, and.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know we talked you about that. The aviation industry,
the air traffic controllers and TSA because they are considered
essential workers, so they can't strike, so they're supposed to
report to their jobs. And you know the last time
this happened is some of the air traffic controls, well,
we ain't getting paid, so some of them calling sick,

(07:22):
you know, you get a doctor's note to prove that
you're sick, you know, you know, and stay home. Because
especially for our folks when thinking about working for free,
we did that quite some time way back. So that's
something that we're not going to embrace. At least some
of us are not going to embrace working for free.
So this is what they hope to do. If you
don't show up, then they can fire you. And that's

(07:42):
that's a negotiating tactic because they think that if the
people lose their jobs, they're going to blame the Democrats
for the whole thing. That's that's why Trump you put
that in there, so you know, turn the attention, the
public's attention at least on the Democrats and nothing that
the Republicans have nothing to do with it. And basically
they you know, they just want to sign a bill,
but sign a bill without the healthcare provisions. And I

(08:04):
think the Democrats need to do have a better need
a better way to get that message out.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, they were.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Talking about improving or continue extending the Affordable Health Care Plan,
also known as Obamacare, and in last night's vote, only
three members of the Democratic caucus sided with the Republicans
Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, Catherine Cortes Mastro of Nevada,

(08:30):
and Angus King, oh Senator Ran Paul was the only
Republican to vote against the bill. And it's, uh, it
seems like quite a situation here.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
These guys don't.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Let me know her for a second count. Here's another
thing to the Democrat in Arizona won a seat, and
they're refusing. Johnson is refusing to sign her in, to
to swear in, if you will, because her vote may
tip the scales. Can you imagine she's she's waning at
but he has the authority, he has to swear in
before she comes to a member of Congress. And usually
it's just it's sort sort of automatic. You wanted the race,

(09:07):
come on in, you know, put your hand on the
Bible and swear allegiance to the Constitution, and you know,
and you're in. But he's referring, refreshing to schedule a
swearing in ceremony for this woman because she's a Democrat.
And see these stories that don't really get out to
the greater public.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Man, and they say, behind the scenes, discussions are still
going on and to end this shutdown from the key players,
whoever they are. But still we're known for a president
who metaphorically blows up everything in one minute and then
suddenly seeks a deal to undermine everything.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
So and yeah, that's why they call sciops brother Sindeki
was telling us about, you create the problem, then you
come up with a solution to it.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Oh that's that's how that's done.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Uh yeah, the political game.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Hey, but what about this guy man Bad Bunny. In
other news, right, the Trump administration threatens to send ice
to the super Bowl during Bad Bunny's halftime show.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
See all roads lead to Donald Trump. Sohow and this
is the super Bowl? Yeah, what about this? What are
your opinion?

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, you know what, I can't because I've never heard
a song by Bad Bunny. If I had, I wouldn't
probably know it. And we should have asked Professor Griff.
When I saw the story, I was like, Wow, I
should have asked Griff because I know he knows all
about this stuff. Bad Bunny's music, but it's beyond music.
Kevin because he selected to be the halftime show of
the super Bowl, the most watched sporting event in the world,

(10:44):
and the halftime show most people just even some people
who went out into sports, so watch the halftime show. Yeah,
magas is same. They're going to boycott the NFL. They're
going to boycott the show. And you know, they've even
stretched to bring in Obama to it because they says
Jay Z's Obama's best friend, so it must be Obama.
So they just stretching it down this dude, Bad Bunny.

(11:06):
But the problem is, though, Kevin Bad Bunny canceled the
US tour because he didn't want Ice coming to the
concert arenas when he's performing. And that's what he did,
a stand in his home country of Puerto Rico, and
a lot of people stateside flew into Puerto Rico just
to see him. I think it probably do ten days
or a couple of weeks there in Puerto Rico sold out,

(11:27):
and his songs are selling out, but you know, they're
in Spanish, so many of us who don't understand Spanish
don't understand. But here's here's the key though. I'm going
with this though, Kevin, because when we talked to Griff
about some of the music that our youngsters are involved
in using profanity, and they say, uh, and they don't
hear the profanity you know, they just popped in their
heads and tabbing it. It's the beat, and I think

(11:49):
may be the same thing with Regathon because it is
a branch of black music, comes from reggae, the Jamaican
genre of music. So maybe the folk who loved a
Bad Bunny man you know a few words of Spanish,
but it's the beat. And Bobby hasn't pa and he's
got he's number one streaming artist. So I don't know

(12:11):
because I'm, like I said, I never heard his music.
What about you, well, I think.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
It may be time to hobbler Poquito Espino because Bad
Bunny was born Benito Antonio Mantinez Ocazio, and he's drawn
criticism from members of the public for performing in Spanish
and advocating for immigrants. You would think maybe there'll be

(12:36):
close captions or something for those of us who you know,
are speaking Spanglish instead, you know, you know. And he
was unveiled as the twenty twenty six, as you said,
Super Bowl halftime performer, negative reactions to the selection. Let's see,
he primarily raps and sings in Spanish, and he's an

(12:58):
advocate of immigrants amid the going.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Deportation and ice raids in the US.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
He's a proud Spanish language rapper, so many of the
Spanish people see this as a heroic moment. I don't
know why the Super Bowl shows him, but there must
be more going on in the in the Spanish world

(13:24):
than that meets the eye, now right, Yeah, and you
know what, we're gonna get our first taste those who
watch Saturday Night Live.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's it's seasoned. Premiere is this weekend, and you know,
Bad Bunny is one of the lead singers. He's going
to perform in on Saturday Night Live. So we'll see
how We'll see if Maga reacts to that as well,
and what they say about that. He speaks Spanish, but
he's also an American, So does that make him less
of American because he speaks Spanish. He's bilingual. He speaks English,

(13:52):
by the way, so does that make it much much
less American because he's Puerto Rican. This a lot sort
of tang little stuff going on here with this Bad
Bunny thing and the magi of World Kevin As you know,
they're up in arms. They just can't believe this is
just an affront to them having a Spanish speaking person.
Uh as the main in it because he played the

(14:14):
super Bowl with Shakira and someone else another Spanish uh,
a female singer that was there. So this is my
first time he's done the super Bowl, but it's just
part of the group. But now he's the headliner. So
this is what was there that I guess they're all
upset about.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Well, he says, it's just that I feel more comfortable
in my own language. He says, I think in Spanish,
I feel in Spanish, I eat in Spanish, I sing
in Spanish.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah know.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
So he told that to a vanity fair. And as
for whether he'd ever sing in English, he says, I'm
never gonna sing in English just because someone says I
need to do it to reach a certain audience. It's
so it's like, forget about the rest of us who
are watching the super Bowl without any politics, but it's

(15:03):
gonna be el politic.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
But you know, let me just touch on that for
a second. On the bilingual because you know, doctor Judis
art is Haitian and and he thinks first in the
native language creole. So when you ask him a question,
sometimes he takes a second because he's translating in his mind.
He transhited back into English and then it comes, you know,
almost seamlessly with a response in English. So you know,

(15:27):
anybody who's who's bil English could do that kind of stuff. Man,
hats off to them. You know, some people are very proficient,
and he wouldn't know, so they can think and straight
in English or Spanish and respond right away. With some
people who are making that transition, they think first in
their native language and they and they, and then they
translated into English to respond. And doctor is Azart does

(15:49):
it real well because it's almost seamlessly when he does it.
But I understand what what bad Bunny is saying. You know,
that's his language, that's that's his native tongue. And so
he's more even more you know, comfortable and responding and
speaking and doing interviews and singing in that way.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, one last thing before the promotional considerations on ex
Bennie Johnson says that the main problem is he's a
massive Trump hater and anti Ice activist and having no
songs in English is a problem and it's gonna be
more of the same for the NFL self destructive.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
All right, hold on, thord Dow, let's do this, Kevin,
Let's over the phone lines. Since I guess this is
m I A. And we'll talk about bad Bunny'll talk
about the government shut down. If you were a government worker,
we'd love to hear from you. Reach out to us
at eight hundred four five zero seventy eight seventy six,
and we take your phone calls next and grind Rising family,
thanks for waking up with us on this Thursday morning.
Here phone, I'm gonna get in. It's eight hundred four

(16:48):
five zero seventy eight seventy six. Hopefully we have doctor
Henry Johnson with us. But before we do that, though,
let me just say this I forgot to mention with Kevin.
Is that Black History Month in the United king The
Brits are celebrating our brothers and sisters in the United Kingdom.
They sent me a no. It reminds that they're celebrating
Black History Month and they do it in October. So
they started yesterday and their Black History Month, they started

(17:12):
celebrating Black History Month back in nineteen nineteen eighty seven.
They haven't sent me the information how they why they
picked the nineteen eighty seven. So maybe some people who
listen out there will tell us why they celebrated Black
History Month. But again, shout out to our brothers and
sisters in London. We got a lot of listeners in
London as well. I'm Birmingham. There's a big event taking place.
They sent me that as well for Black History Month

(17:32):
in the UK. So shout out to our brothers and
sisters there. I see doctor Johnson's waiting for us before
we do that. Maryland's calling us for Maryland online too,
Grand Rising.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Maryland, Grand Rising. I wanted to share concerning Bad Bunny.
I have a co worker from Venezuela. I'm in my fifties,
we have children in our twenties, and she voted for
Trump Republican. But she was shocked that Bad Bunny is
the highlighter for the football game or the seasonal football game.

(18:05):
And she said that Bad Bunny uses a lot of profanity.
She was disappointed to hear that he would be the
main singer. He performed with j Lo Shakira and now
he's the main person. But I think this is a
ploy to divide us because I don't think they will

(18:25):
let Bad Bunny sing be the I think they'll switch
it out and then they'll try to blame the Democrat
for it, you know, because bad Bunny, as you mentioned,
all his music since Spanish uses a lot of profanity,
and when they decide to drop him, they'll find a
way to blame the Democrat, so that this will be

(18:45):
another reason to try to divide the brown and the
black people.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Is the profanity in Spanish too, or all profanities that
sounds the same?

Speaker 4 (18:56):
Yeah, it's all in Spanish.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Really, we wouldn't know if he's cussing so so Maryland.
We wouldn't know if it's cussing on the stage right.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
Right. But those who are bilingual will be offended because
and children, I mean children watch and children speak other languages.
Americans are the only ones who speak one language. But anyway, yeah,
I don't think this will follow through. I think something
will happen to cause him not to be the main singer,

(19:27):
and then they'll try to find a way to blame
us black people Democrats. We'll see how it lays out.
But from what she said, she's Venezuelan, Spanish is her
main language, and she had nothing nice to say about
bad Money.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, and most of those many of knowing him, most
but many of the Venezuelans, and also Trump's this as well,
as she mentioned she voted for Donald Trump, so that's
not surprising. Is music what he is, the music of
the youth today his laced with profanity. And that's the
thing we have with Professor Grifforth, you know, we talked
of and I was, you know, sort of missed that
asking that question because I know he knows about Bad Bunny,
knows about the music. But anyway, Bad Bunny's gonna be

(20:08):
a headline Saturday Night Live their premier this this weekend,
so we'll get a taste of what it is. And
I'm sure that was done delivery so the ratings would
go up for their premier show on Saturday because he's
going to be the headline singing along with those your cats.
So we'll see how it works out. But we'll see
if that works out for Marilyn. And thank you for
sharing that information with us.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Certainly, thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Have a good day, all right, Marilynd call for mail
and eight hundred and four or five zero seventy eight
seventy six. Doctor Henry Johnson, grind Rising, Welcome back to
the program. Is doctor Johnson there, Kevin, I'm not hearing
doctor Johnson. Care Listen on the radio because we're on
a delay system. If you're there with us, just pick
up the phone and listen on the phone. All right.

(20:51):
Obviously were having a problem with doctor Johnson, so uh Kevin,
And let me just say this, Doctor Johnson is a
close friend of O. J. Simpson. When we when the
trial started, he was one of the first persons to
come out to OJ's defense. He said, Ojan couldn't do it,
and he gave us all, you know, reasons why OJ
didn't commit the double murders. All right, he said, now,

(21:12):
doctor Johnson, grand Rising, welcome back to the program.

Speaker 5 (21:15):
Oh, good morning, Carls. Thanks having me back.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, because you've you've you've been with us for quite
a while, especially when we around in LA when when
when the trial started, you were one of the most
vocal persons in uh OJ's camp. You said the juice
didn't do it. You gave all kinds of reasons why
he didn't do it, and and and then you know,
it was thirty years ago. I think tomorrow's the anniversary
when the jury came back and said that OJ was innocent.

(21:40):
It seems like the world changed and some people are
still believing some brothers did especially in La at the
county jail felt they've got longer sentences because of Jews.
But that's a whole different story. Here tell us why
you say at the dounset, before you know, before the
trial starting, you said that OJ didn't do it. What
made you say that?

Speaker 5 (21:59):
Okay, well, I would like to start up by telling
you that you know, October third was a turning pointer.
It was a touchstone in American culture. I'm sure you
remember exactly where you were when that when that vertic
was red and as a matter of fact, it had

(22:21):
such an impact they actually stopped the New York Stock Exchange,
one of the first times in history that they did that.
They hear that verdict. So if you remember black people finalized, rejoice.
It was almost like it was a release when when
that verdict came in. And aside from what was going

(22:42):
on in America, people actually celebrated that verdict around the world.
They were celebrating in Santiago, Chile, they celebrated. In uh
adece O Baba Volba, they celebrated. They told me, they
closed the city down and legos night Geria for practically
two days. Okay, But over and beyond the fact that

(23:07):
it had this overwhelming impact of a celebration among the
black community. Whites by and large were disoriented and broken
hearted when that verdict came in. So it created a
schism in American culture. And I believe that that schism

(23:27):
has continued to erode the fabric in this country and
ultimately has led to the political situation that we face today. Okay,
And in regards to my interaction with the Trial of
the Century, I wrote, I co authored the OJ's petition

(23:53):
to the California Supreme Court. So we've made it a legacy.
We have made a paper trail, and in that in
that petition, we asked that the Supreme Court would replace
stolen evidence, which would have completely exonerated old Jay. As

(24:16):
a matter of fact, OJ should have never been charged
in the first place, because Nicole and her mother spoke
by phone at midnight as OJ bordered the plane on
the way to Chicago. In other words, Nicole and their
mother spoke by phone at midnight as OJ boarded the
red Eye flight to Chicago, and they hid those phone records.

(24:40):
The jury never saw the phone records. We discovered that,
and based upon that, we asked that the Supreme Court
would release both Nicole Brown Simpson and her mother's phone records.
The court has acted corruptly, covering the dirty work of
the Los Angeles District attorneys.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Hold right there, So why didn't why didn't Nicole's mother
say that though before before the trial, that you know,
in a conversation with a daughter when when jus was
on the going to Chicago.

Speaker 5 (25:16):
Well, the question you asked is is is I might say,
asked for a hypothetical answer. There's nothing rhetorical about it.
But the Browns actually changed the time that they said
they had made the callback to Los Angeles to talk
to the Messalina restaurant and the coal and they changed

(25:39):
the time at least by ninety minutes. Initially, when Lou
Brown talked to the Corners investigator in the morning the
bodies were discovered, he said that his wife and daughter
were on the phone at eleven PM. Well, at eleven pm,
OJ wasting in the back of a mimosine. So there

(26:03):
was a question of whether this call took place at
eleven or earlier. Well, for some reason, a week later,
Lou Brown went to the corner's office and moved that
time back to nine thirty. So he dropped. He dropped
the time back to at least ninety minutes, when it
only took him ninety minutes to travel home. So for

(26:26):
somebody to overestimate the time that a phone call came in,
it suggests that he was coerced to do this. And
I can I can tell you by large when you
when you hear a loved one has died suddenly and violently,
in all probability, you were to remember the exact time

(26:49):
you laugh, saw them, spoke to them, you know where
you were, what you were wearing, and all that sort
of thing. So in terms of designated the exact time.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
All I thought again, Doc, all, I thought again. Thirty
minutes after the top there I founally just joined us
a doctor Henry Johnson's I guess he's a strong friend
of O. J. Simpson before the trial he was. This
is with the conversation we were having on the radio
with doctor Johnson, and tomorrow is the anniversary of the
jury decision finding O J. Anderson. But doctor Johnson, the

(27:21):
information you just shared with us about the timeline of
the phone calls, did Johnny Cochran and he's the team
know that information as well?

Speaker 5 (27:28):
Yes, yes, he did, Yes, he did. But in the
in the judges chambers during the preliminary hearing, when the
judge saw what the phone records said, she sealed the
phone records, and I induced Marsha Clark and Shapiro to

(27:49):
stipulate to a time that the phone calls actually made. Okay,
So what I'm telling you is that she sealed the
phone records and the jury was actually never shown an
official copy of the actual phone records from Verizon GT.
They never saw them. What the jury saw was a

(28:12):
fraudulent graphic art depiction of the phone records, and that
way they could proceed with this false, fictitious investigation of
old J. Simpson.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Wow, and I'm just saying, today's Johnny Cochran's birthday. By
the way, Johnny Cockran's put on this day in nineteen
thirty seven and made his transition back in March of
two thousand and five. And what you're saying, though, so
even with that against them the Cockrane team, did you
do you think they did a great job? How do
you see what he did or what the other side

(28:47):
says was during nullification, the sisters on the panel no
way vote to convict the black man regardless of the crime.
Which way do you fall on that?

Speaker 5 (28:57):
Well, I think that's silly. First of all, black women,
black males, the commonly black women set on criminal juries.
And I tell you that the the three greatest, the
great the three greatest assets of of of black people
bio large are their morals? Are there are there are

(29:19):
their their courage and their and their intuition. I mean
we use courage and intuition morals when it was illegal
to teach black people how to read and write. So
for those black women to fit through those sixteen months
of sequestration, if those sisters believe that this man killed

(29:42):
the mother of his children, they would have put in
their heart of hearts, they would have put Old J.
Simpson under the penitentiary. So I don't believe there was
any jury nullification. It was some get back in None
of that, Okay. If those ladies actually sell in their heart,
I don't care how like Johnny's present station was. If
those ladies, those ladies actually upheld the integrity of the

(30:06):
judicial system in this country because the courts were corrupt,
the district attorney was corrupt, and they both covered the
dirt the dirty cops in Los Angeles when they plant
most of all that evidence and.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Speak to that, because I'm not sure if some of
the audience knew, because you know, we went through this
with a fine tooth comb during the trial, and Johnny
would call us on our program. We did a show
like we're doing here, and every morning we get a
call from Johnny gives the update or a preview what
was going on in the trial. And it was good
for us this for ratings, if you will. But you

(30:43):
get into it deeper. You were saying that even if
the way the murders were conducted, you know, you've got
more scientific that it couldn't have been old j Cook
because something with the knife or the wrong hand or
something like that. Could you get into that and share
that with our audience today, certainly?

Speaker 5 (31:02):
You know, a patient brought me a copy of the
autopsy reports, uh following the following the criminal trial, but
before the civil trial, which was a double Jebarty trial.
But when I reviewed the autopsies on the Cole and
Rock Goldman, it was obvious there were two failings that
did that did this, and the more lethal of the

(31:24):
two was left handed. Nicole was killed by a lefty
and Roald Gohman was attacked by two individuals, both left
and right handed, with two distinguishably different knives, one very
similar to a buck knife, a singletch knife, and the
second knife was a dagger with two sharp edges. He

(31:46):
was attacked by two. It was it was the It
was the buck knife that did the main damage to
both of them, and the buck knife to singlete knife
was well by a left hander. Now, OJ nicked the
back of his middle finger, or on his left hand.
And you will, if you have an accident in the
kitchen their garage, using a sharp inch and a knife

(32:07):
for whatever, You're always going to cut the free hand.
You will never cut the back of the hand clutching
the knife. So that worked against the theory that OJ
did this. Over and beyond that. When I produced a
synopsis of the phone records, I mean excuse me. I
produced a synopsis of the of the autopsy reports. And

(32:29):
OJ's civil dream team learned of the work that I did.
It took me out to lunch, they took my information
and they gave it to Michael Badden. Michael Baden used
my investigation during the during his civil trial testimony. Now,
Michael Baden was OJ's forensic a specialist who testified in

(32:51):
both the criminal trial as well as the civil trial.
When he testified in the civil trial, the first thing
that came out of his mind was that two assailants
who did this? No one said two assailants before Michael
Badden did, and he did it after reading my information,
my synopsis of this case. There were two assailants. One

(33:15):
of the assailants I believe is a fellow named Glenn Rogers,
who happens to be a serial killer. He was tried
and convicted of killing seven women. The authorities estimated that
he might have killed twenty. And I had lunch with

(33:37):
Glenn Rodgers' brother, my investigative group did, and he told
us that Glenn told him he had killed almost seventy women.
He's one of the most prolific killers of the end
of the millennium, the end of the twentieth century.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
And I hate to break your rhythm right now, but
we got to step aside and get caught up with
the ladies news trafficking weather for at different stations in
twenty three minutes away from the top. They our family.
You're hearing some of you hearing some of this stuff.
For the first time. You know, tomorrow is the anniversary
thirty years ago was the verdict that heard around the
world when they found that the jury declared that oh J.
Simpson was innocent. What are your thoughts eight hundred four

(34:13):
or five zero, seventy eight to seventy six or take
a phone calls after the news trafficking weather, that's next
a grind rising family sixteen minutes away from the top
of that. With that doctor Henry Johnson, a close associate
of O. J. Simpson back in the day before the
trial and during the trial, that doctor Johnson used to
share all this information. He's sharing with this now. The
reason why he's doing it though, because tomorrow is the

(34:33):
thirtieth anniversary of the jury's decision that was heard around
the world that found that OJ was innocent of the murders,
and some people still say that OJ didn't do it.
And later I'll share with you how we got Johnny
Cochrane become part of our program. We've given us a
morning update and also after the verdict, Johnny was in
our studios, were the first one interviewed John and OJ

(34:54):
as well. That was a chaos there that day. I'll
share that with you as well. I promised to do that.
But later this morning we're going to hear uh clinical
psychologist doctor Jeroni Fox. He's you know, he's going to
return to our classroom and talk about his book Addicted
to White The Oppressed in the League of the Oppressor
of Shane based their lives for doctor Fox. That we're
gonna hear Froim scientists and medical doctor Keith Crawford. It'smrow
was Friday, Free mind and join us for another open

(35:16):
PHLM Friday program. We're being promptly at six am Eastern time.
Don't wait to the last minute every Friday. We got
a bunch of folks who waited the last minute and
they can't get in. So make sure you jump on
early so we can hear what you have to say.
Doctor Johnson, I'll let you finish your thought because you
now are explaining to us who you think actually committed
those murders, because that's the question I was going to
ask you. If it wasn't Ojay, who was it. So
I'll let you finish that.

Speaker 6 (35:38):
Well.

Speaker 5 (35:39):
As I mentioned, there's a fellow named Glenn Rogers who
is a well known serial killer, and Glenn basically dated Nicole,
They've slept together. Glenn Rogers painted Nicole's kind of minium
where she was killed, and his his fingerprints were found

(36:00):
throughout the condominium. But what the media has held from
you is that Glenn Rodgers also worked with law enforcement.
He had busted over two hundred people. He is basically
a paid confidential informant. Now, aside from Glenn Rodgers having

(36:23):
that status, Ron Goldman was also a paid confidential informant.
We have a cover sheet that has ron Goldman's criminal
files filled in the state of California and is protected
by criminal code California Criminal Code six two five four,

(36:44):
which protects the criminal file of confidential informant. Ronald Goldman
had a bench worn for his arrest a night that
he died. And these are the things that's why I say.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Made up here again, was it was he dating Nicole
doc Ron Goman.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
Ronald Goldman was basically a golfer. Ronald Goldman was slanging
and moving around cocaine in West Los Angeles. Ronald Goleman
has a criminal file that is at least six inches stick.
My brother was part of my investigation group, was perusing
its file and they were holding it in Malville, California,

(37:28):
at the courthouse. When my brother went there, he got
a hold of the file and a supervisor snatched a
file away from my brother and said, you can't review
this because Edo has a feel on it. Okay, So
I'm just giving you the tidbits surrounding Old Jay's case
that they sequestered in order to the point this fraudulent

(37:50):
finger at Old j Simpson.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Well, how much was he van Adam had OJ's blood.
It was driving around van Adam. He's an LAPD officer
who was investigadication hand OJ's blood and he was driving
around it for a couple of days before taking it
to the lab. And then they found the sock and
this is where this is where Johnny cockran comes in
and they found the side. There was blood on one
of OJ's socks. But the blood went through both sides.

(38:16):
Can you I'm sure you know this. It went through
both sides. So if if the blood was on it
when OJ was on his had it on his foot,
it'd only go through his foot, would have stopped the
blood from going to the other side. So what part
of the cover up does the LAPD did they know
all of this? What you're talking about these other dudes
and they were trying to frame juice. How do you
see it?

Speaker 5 (38:36):
Well, let me just say this. It was proven that
all these samples that had Olj's blood in them also
had EDTA, which is a preservative only found in test tubes.
So OJ's blood was wherever they located, it was contaminated

(38:56):
with blood that was found only in a test tube.
And incidentally, they did not have to go to the
crime scene to plant the blood. All they did was
to switch the swatches. The the samples of blood that
they collected were were taken to lots ange Tho's police department.

(39:16):
There was no chain of custody that the the the
the slatches that they tested were kept in a an
atrium that was not locked in any any drying chamber.
And the the the the the the slatches that collected
that they which they collect's blood in. By the time

(39:38):
that they had returned from the lab, the slatches were
no longer initialized and had the the criminologists uh initials
and serial numbers on those on those slatches. So it
wasn't this uh uh Olympian hurdle to cross to go

(40:02):
and plant blood evidence all over the crime scene. The
blood the OJ's blood was planted on the swatches. They
had positive blood preservative in them and they did that
all in the LA Police Department.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
All right, do you want to take a call before
you go on, because Jay's reaching out just from the
Motor City in Detroit. He's online. Three, Jay, you have
a question for doctor Johnson.

Speaker 6 (40:31):
Yes, good, good morning. Uh, this is incredible, really, but
I just wanted to ask the doctor Fitty he expound
on some of the things within the trial, especially related
to the police officer, Mark Furman's testimony and where uh,

(40:52):
Judge Ito only allowed the portion of the tapes that
they had with Mark Furman to about certain things. And
I got that from Johnny Carcran's autobiography. So could you
expound on that aspect of it?

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well?

Speaker 5 (41:11):
Takes for raising it. And before I get into it,
I want to shout out to the Million Man March.
This is the thirtieth anniversary of the Million Man March too.
It came in two weeks after the acquittal, So the
two wonderful events that happened thirty years ago in the
same month. But I'm glad that you brought up Mark
Firmer's name. Because Mark Fremer was the lead detective that

(41:32):
basically found the blood evidence and then the bronco. He
found the trail of blood at ol J's home in Rockingham,
he found the hat, the gloves, all that sort of thing.
And when Mark Fremer was on trial, the lead detective
had to take the fifth. In other words, he perjured
himself and he had to take the fifth. He took

(41:54):
the fifth three times, which was a sellonade. And who's
ever heard of a lead detective having to take the
fifth to protect himself against prosecution. So that's basically what
the story is, Mark Fifth, Mark Furman, Mark fifth to
Furman when you trump to But I won't go into that.

(42:15):
Mark Furman, the lead detective and Old J. Simpson trial,
they excuse him from testifying because they knew that he
was a dirty cop and the evidence just was not
adding up.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Well let me jump, thanks Jay. What was it the
Freman's testimony that the trial turned or was it Johnny?
If it if it doesn't fit, you must have quit.
Was Johnny trying on the glove or having Jews try
on the glove? How do you see? It was his
firmans when they found out about him saying he never
used the N word, and they had, you know, reports
that he's alive, he's a dirty cop.

Speaker 7 (42:49):
He said, well, how do you see?

Speaker 5 (42:50):
There were a number there were a numbers of things
that turned the they that stacked up for the victory.
But what in Madam Foreman, the book that the jurors
uh that got together and wrote, they said what convinced
and themost was as I as I pointed out to you,

(43:10):
uh uh the criminologists, uh doctor Lee Uh. He explained
the issue of E. D T A on the swatches. Okay, Now,
the blood for O. J. It was it was picked
up by criminologists at the crime scene, supposedly, and she

(43:33):
testified that she used uh distilled water Q tips and
the tech detectives pointed out what drops they wanted her
to pick up. So she used the distilled water with
the Q tips, got a sample and smitted it on
the swatches. Meant she initial them. She she serialized them,

(43:54):
and she put them in a tray in their in
their vehicle at the crime scene and from there they
transported them to the police department where they're putting a
drying chamber for twenty four hours. All right, So subsequent
to being in the drying chamber. They took those swatches
and they placed those swatches in what's called it bindos,

(44:15):
just a little paper coin envelope, and they slid the swatches,
which was a little piece of cotton paper into the
into the cotton into the into the envelope. They sent
those envelopes to some mark labs to test them for DNA. Okay,

(44:35):
and then the results show that there was OJ's blood,
It was nicoles. There was Ron Squad's blood, all right.
So Henry Lee, when he came on the case, what
he did was he looked at the small brown envelopes
and what he did was he cut the envelopes opened

(44:57):
and turned them inside out, and there was a appeared
to be a water trans for there was a water
transfer mark on the inside of the of the little
brown envelope. And so he wondered, well, why could there
be a liquid transfer mark on the inside of the

(45:19):
envelope when these these cotton swabs had been sitting in
a drying chamber for twenty four hours. Well, it turned
out that the only envelopes that had a water transfer
mark on inside were the envelopes that held swatches with

(45:41):
OJ's blood. Okay, that the envelopes that had contained Nicole's
blood and Ron Golme's blood did not have that water
mark transfer. So basically, OJ's blood was still wet twenty
four hours after sitting in a drying chamber. And aside
from that, the watches that had Nicole and Ron Golman's

(46:04):
blood were initial by Andrea Mozzola the chriminologists and serialized. However,
now the swatches that had OJ's blood and were also
found to have blood preservatives on them no longer had
Andrea Mozsola's initials on them. And so when Johnny asked

(46:25):
Andrew Mozzola, can you explain why your initials are not
on these watches with OJ's blood, she couldn't answer that.
And when that when, when Johnny pulls that question to
Edo Itto said something, I'm not I'm sorry, not Etel,
but Henry Lee, who was also Asian as well. When

(46:46):
Johnny pulls that question, how can you explain a transfer
of a water mark with OJ's blood after twenty four
hours and this woman's initials are no longer on it?
And and doctor Henry Lee said something wrong, And that
is what the women jury said had flipped down when

(47:09):
they loved doctor Lee. When Lee came back, and he
would now turnish his reputation.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
All left the right there, Doctor Johnson, we got to
step aside and get caught up on the lady's traffic
and weather. They're at different cities. I'll let you finish
that thought when you get back. Some people got questions
for years. Well three minutes away from the top, they
have family discussing thirty years ago the verdict that they
was hurled around the world. O. J. Simpson innocent? What
are your thoughts eight hundred and four or five zero
seventy eight seventy six taking calls after the trafficking weather

(47:34):
that's next and grand rising family, and thank you for
us starting your davids this Thursday morning. Here we're on
the second day of October. Tomorrow will be thirty years
ago the verdict heard around the world. And that was
when OJ Simpson the panel found him innocent of the
double murders of Nicole and Ron. And so this is
what we discussing right now with doctor Henry Johnson. He

(47:55):
used to be part of a cadre of people involved
with the trial. Gonna share, I'll share with you too.
How we got Johnny cockran to be calling in every
morning on our show back then in la Uh give
us the tip bits of what happened the day before
and what was probably and he wouldn't give up too
much and what was going to happen on the ongoing day.
But doctor Johnson, I'm gonna let you finish your thought.

(48:16):
We got some folks got questions for you as well,
So I'll let you finish though, then I'll take some
calls for you.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
Okay, Well, I wanted to say that set. You know,
we've all j we developed a friendship. I met him
minus on the fiftieth birthday, and you know, we developed friendship.
He wanted to see the investigation that my ultra medical
legal investigations that and you know, we we we developed

(48:42):
pretty much of a lifetime friendship. I visited Oja when
he fell into that trap in Nevada. They stuck with
willerness and love lock Nevada where he did. They gave
him thirty three years for every every million dollar that
he was fine to payoff Fred Goleman as Fred Goman's slave.

(49:04):
But you know, at thirty three is kind of as
one of those mysterious numbers, but you know, thirty three million,
thirty three years. But you know, I went out. I
saw him probably about twelve times in the penitentiary and
I interviewed. They called me up. I interviewed with George
Stebbanopolis during the during the parole hearing. But I've interviewed

(49:26):
on CNN. I interviewed with Stepanopolis, I interviewed with Devil Roberts,
I interviewed on Fox, CNN, ABC. But unfortunately every time
they interview me, they cut me off because I'm just
being matter of fact and emotional disinterested. But I'm just

(49:48):
bringing you the facts that two killers did this. The
more leaf of the two was Glenn Rogers. Oj Is.
All of OJ's blood that was found at the location
had preservative in it. The blood was planted. They did
that at the LAPD department. They did not have to
go to the crime scene. And the last thing that

(50:09):
I want to say is that Nicole and her mama
spelled by phone at midnight as OJ was signed selfies
on the Red Eye flight. They submitted fake, fraudulent phone
records in front of the jury. They never actually solve
the actual phone records, but they used this fake graphic

(50:30):
art exhibit to sustain a Marsia Clark the Lada's phony
timeline to point the finger at O. J. Simpson, and
they protected and enabled the actual real killers to get
to get away. And I believe it was all related
to drug smuggling and money laundry, and I believe LA

(50:56):
and some other politicians are connected to that.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
I say this because part of the drug part that
we heard about that and Nicole had a serious cocaine
problem and OJ was was paying her off, paying off
our dealers. And then he cut off the money that
he because he was subsistizing the family as we know,
who lived where somewhere to south of l A down
near San Diego. I forgot the name of the city,
real expensive place they lived, and he got this the

(51:23):
Stanna point and he got the sister into the USC
so he was backrolling them. So he decided to cut
out that off because he's got to pay the drug
dealers for Nicole, and he wanted to get his kids,
wanted to get a divorce. And that's why what you
said where they were trying to frame it, O J.
Was because he cut them off, they cut off the money.
So that may that may be, you know, there may

(51:43):
be some credence to that. But hold that right there,
doctor Johnson, because he's been holding for a minute. From Maryland.
He wants to speak with it. She's online too, Grand Rising, D.
You're on with doctor Johnson.

Speaker 8 (51:53):
Yeah, Grand Rising. I just want to quickly say that
during that time, I was a surgeon and we lived
in Atlanta, and he flew out to California and when
he came back, he hit. While he was out in California,
he had visited some of his uh doctor buddies, and

(52:15):
they told him that there they were e R doctors
and they said when the bodies came in, they were
cut t shape and so the doctors knew. They said, oh,
this is a hit. And so I held on to
that information. And he told me he's a white guy.
So and he said, yeah, he said it it. OJ

(52:36):
didn't do it. He said it was a hit and
probably was, which is connected to her lifestyle. So that's
all I wanted to say.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
All right, thanks. The doctor Johnson couldn'tcur what's this because
some people say OJ didn't have the skill to do that.
This was this was a skilled the person who committed
those murders right.

Speaker 5 (52:56):
Well Rogers did I mean Glenn Rogers, Like I said,
he was trying and convict it of killing seven women.
His mo for killing women was he was slimming their throats. Okay.
His brother brought me the autopsies on seven of his victims,
and we, like I said, me and my brother had
lunch with Plod Rogers, Rogers brother and when who were

(53:21):
having a discussion. I said, well, I'm just listening to them.
And Joyce Spiser was an investigator for the Rogers family
and she was so the four of us were at
lunch and I asked, I told the brother. I said,
I didn't have one question. He said, well, what is it?
I said, it was your brother left handed? And Cloud

(53:42):
said I don't remember. And I said, I said to myself,
you know you're lying because you know what hand you're
your brother that you was raised with. And Joyce Spiders said, well,
I can tell you, yeah, he's left handed. And when
she said that, there was there was complete silence. Okay,

(54:03):
and then the conversation started up once again. But yeah,
Nicole Brown Simpson had her thoughts slit by a lefty
and Ron Goleman had the stab wounds from a lefty
and a right. They got mirror image stabs. A matter
of fact, Nicole had her thoughts slit from right to left,
and Ronald Goleman had his throat slit from left to right,

(54:26):
so they had kind of mirror image of slash wounds
and crowns across her thilt. But I just want to
say this, ron Goleman's uh wounds to his neck were
not the ones that killed him. They were superficial, all right.
So ron Goleman's voice box was still intact, and he
just had a nick in the external jugular vein, which

(54:50):
is a vein not having arteries cut like the karateids.
Nicole Brown Simpsons karateds were cut, so immediately the blood
cut off to her brain, she was dead in a second.
Ronald Goleman could still fight, Ronald Goleman could still scream,
so in some kind of way they were able to

(55:12):
keep Ryan Goleman quiet while they took him out. So
I asked you, how does one assailant keep one man
that's fighting for his life quiet when he is stabbing
him multiple times with two knives. Okay, if you got
when you get stabbed once, you would have blood curling screams, Okay.

(55:32):
So this whole concept that one guy did this was
was was crap. The guy that did the autopsies never
testified because he had a he had a reputation of
not lying when he was on the stand. So they
brought this Indian doctor, doctor los Monting in and doctor
lox Mine. He was ahead. He was the administrative chief

(55:56):
of the Coroner's office in LA And he comes in
and he tells you that one assailant did this. That
was nothing but pure nonsense. Okay. There was two assailants
that did it. The main assailant was Glenn Rogers in
all probability, his partner's name is Stephen Keeley. Okay. And

(56:17):
so you got a black doctor telling you this, and
the media nor the political structure wants a black doctor
to put the nail in the coffin. Regarding the investigation
of O. J. Simpson. You had a black attorney, Johnny Cochrane,

(56:38):
that got OJ exonerated. Now here comes a black doctor
that is going to shut this investigation down entirely. And
they said, now we're we can't have that. We need
to get this, we need to get political coinage out
of this thing. And then so they dragged them to
Santa Monica where they held a double jeopardy trial, and

(57:00):
they created nothing but racial animosity behind us. They started
burning black churches that the police kill Rader and the
black community shot up. They took the affirmative action away
from black students to get into college, and all this,
all that racial animosity has continued to march all the
way up to the present presidential elections. So I'm just

(57:24):
telling you that's why you know, there's there's dates in
our lives that are very important to us, so we
should never forget them. This is one of those dates.
When the world celebrated the acquittal of og Simpson, the
October third, nineteen ninety five, victory of justice right in.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
The world, Well, the white world didn't celebrate. They were
a gas that was showing people because they showed it
on the big screen of Times Square. And when you
see the look on white people's foot face and they
juxtaposed that with students and Howard what jubilant. So some
people didn't like that. But yeah, I'm glad you hear
this one because thirty years ago, if folks just jogging
memory where you were, because you probably know where you

(58:07):
were when the jury came back with it, Reverdie is
saying that Oh Jay was innocent eight hundred and four five,
eight seventy six, twelve after the top of our author's
in Los Angeles, has a question for you, doctor Johnson,
grand Rising, Dorothy, you're on with doctor Johnson.

Speaker 8 (58:21):
Grand Rising to everyone. My question to doctor Johnson, this
information is so astounding.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
Will you write a book or.

Speaker 8 (58:31):
Have you written a book? And can you provide the
information we.

Speaker 9 (58:35):
Need to know?

Speaker 5 (58:37):
Well, I appreciate that that question very much. And actually
there's two books I wrote. One is what my brother wrote.
One My book is called Double Cross for Blood. It's
a sub post book. You can you can yelp it,
you can contact me in my office. I can get
you copies of it. People love this book. I couldn't
get a book deal. They try to suppress it. My

(58:59):
brother's book is called In Pursuit of Exhibit thirty five.
So you have those two books, Double Cross for Blood
and Thomas Johnson wrote In Pursuit of Exhibit thirty five
the telephone records. And last thing is we produce the
documentary entitled Serpents Rising Oh Jay's most art and critics

(59:20):
of oj review that documentary in one hour, they will say.
They will get up and tell you, oh, Jay is
in a set. All this media high from the Cube
Gooding series to the exp ESPN series, all that stuff
is pure fluff. It's nothing but garbage. The Serpents Rising

(59:41):
documentary is will be the gold standard for documentaries regarding
the trial of the century. To keep that in mind,
double Cross for Blood Pursuit of the Exhibit thirty five
and the documentary Serpents Rising.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
All right, thanks, thank you so much. The Allens in
San Diego. Doctor Johnson's got a question for his online
to a grand rising all your own, doctor Hannah Johnson.

Speaker 10 (01:00:08):
Hi, how you doing?

Speaker 9 (01:00:09):
All right?

Speaker 11 (01:00:09):
Listen, I'm gonna ask a question. Did you did you
hear about a third person that was murdered to around
the same time they used to They said that he
used to deliver a director Nicole Brown. That's uh, I heard,
well run the same time.

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
Yes, sir, there's a there's a fellow named Michael Nigg
n I double g. Michael Nigg was the was one
of the head waiters at the Messalona that actually hired
Ronald Goleman. As a matter of fact, Ronald Goldman's sister
dated Michael Nig. Michael Nigg was on the was on

(01:00:55):
the witness list to testify. Johnny cockerd had some in
Michael Nigg. Three weeks before Michael Nig was to give testimony,
Michael Nig was shot at an ATM three times in
the head with his girlfriend watching the killers that did this,
But the media never mentioned anything about a witness that

(01:01:19):
was to testify, that worked with, that hired and worked
with Ronald Goldman was killed, was murdered three three days
excuse me, three weeks before he was to testify. Now,
Michael Nigg worked at the Mezzaluna. He drove a seven
point thirty five BMW and just like Ronald Goleman, he

(01:01:42):
lived within walking distance two blocks away from the Mesaluna
in the high rent district where rents were at that
time over three thousand dollars a month for a one
bedroom apartment. This guy lived within walking distance in a
high rent district. They part time waiters salary, So you

(01:02:03):
got to figure out how how do these guys afford
this sort of lifestyle?

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:02:10):
Okay, also too, because see because see at first I
thought that O. J. Simpson did it. Too, and everything
until I like listen to the hearings to that, and
then when that were not pathologists, Uh, that's pathologists. Hey,
what kind of nice were hughes or doing the murders?

(01:02:30):
And he says, I don't know. And they said, well,
what do you mean you don't know? And he goes, well,
they took the bodies away before I got to examine it.
That right there told me that O. J. Simpson didn't
do it, you know, right? And then yeah, and and
I'm going.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
To move on because you're racing the clock so much.
Folks want to talk to doctor Johnson.

Speaker 7 (01:02:49):
Yeah, and also too, all right, no problem, no, no, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
That's got to take a break because we have another
guest scheduled seventeen minutes after the top. They have family.
I guess it's doctor Henry Johnson is a close associate
of O. J. Simpson. Thirty years ago. It was thirty
years ago that the decision came around the world that
OJ was innocent by a Predomini black jury of sisters,
and people said it was a jury nullification. They wouldn't,

(01:03:14):
you know, find a brother guilty. But what are your thoughts?
Eight hundred and four or five zero, seventy eight, seventy six,
or take your calls real quickly after this short break
and grand Rising family, thanks for starting your Thursday with us.
At twenty minutes after the top of the other. I
guess that doctor Henry Johnson, a close friend of O. J. Simpson,
we relive in the trial thirty years ago tomorrow that
Verdy came down and let me share with you real
quickly how we got involved with this as a radio station,

(01:03:37):
our competition to beat that time. Chris Darten, who was
on Marsha Clark's team, he would call their show every morning.
I can't think his name, John John, whatever his name was.
It was a white guy doing the morning show, but
it was aimed at the black community. So I told Johnny, said, Johnny,
if you can just called just once a week, I
appreciate it because you know, they usually has a leverage

(01:03:58):
against us because the uh, the radio business then was
fierce competition. And John says, now, I'll do better than that.
I'll call you every morning. I said, Okay, here's the
hotline number. Whatever we're doing, we'll just because he says,
I listen every morning, by the way, when I'm exercising
I'm up that time at four o'clock in the morning,
and so Johnny would call in. So after the right
after the verdict came down. The next day, Johnny Conqueror

(01:04:19):
was in our studios. I got to tell the whole
operation of the station stopped that day because every every
inch of the station, reporters and newspeople from all over
the world, we're trying to get there's no business that
day when he came on, and the following day O
Jay came. So it's we were you know, we're monitoring.
You know, I did not know how huge this situation

(01:04:42):
is because you know, you're in LA like you are,
doctor Johnson, and you just think it's well, it's maybe
it's an LA story. But when you told me that,
the stock market paused, and then we saw later on
at Times Square when when the verdict was red and
white people going oh, you know, just just breathless, and
then they juxtaposted, which some students and Howard celebrating. It's

(01:05:03):
you know, thirty years ago, man, it was with a
different world. So my question to you, do you think
if if that's try I went on to date, did
you think O j would have been found innocent.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
Well, I think that the the black woman majeurs that
found oh J in a sense held up the integrity
of the criminal justice system. You know this, this, this
whole court system was pretty much rigged to affect the
birth rate of black people. They have used this. This

(01:05:35):
the the criminal justice system. You had an escalation of
the prison population in this country following the Civil War.
When when the when the thirteenth Amendment was passed. I
was talking to my father in laws, was a judge
of Mitsota. I asked him, when did when did you

(01:05:56):
see the first rise in the prison population. It came
following that when the thirteenth Amendment was passed. Okay, well
you can roll this roll that clock forward. Uh with
following the OJ Simpson's case, you had another surge in
the prison population. And the number one group that there

(01:06:19):
were housing in these penitentiaries were black women. Okay. So
they made a cottage industry out of domestic violence. They
you know, so they when you the issue of domestic
violence should be handled before it becomes violent. When you
identified that there's squabbles in the home, those people should

(01:06:42):
be going They should go to constling for anger management.
They should go to constlting for alcoholism, for drug addiction
and all that sort of thing. But it ain't about
settling down uh problems in the in the community, positive
problems of poor people. It's about incarcerating people because incarceration

(01:07:06):
controls the uh, the the the drag on the labor
market in this in this capitalist society that we live in.
As a matter of fact, it's another discussion, but we
should consider looking at society in a post capitalistic system

(01:07:27):
because capitalism and supremacy are are are in incestuous twins. Okay,
but they use this criminal justice system to help to
slow the birth rate of definitely of the brown skinned communities.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Right, oh, left, the right there, twenty five out of
the top. I got a bunch of tweets from one
of the tweets wants to know what happened to ac
Ol calens ojs pal, what happened to him?

Speaker 12 (01:08:01):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:08:01):
I mean after that?

Speaker 7 (01:08:02):
Sure, okay, well you know I met oj.

Speaker 5 (01:08:06):
I mean, I excuse me, I met Al Collins on
a number of occasions. I met him as a matter
of fact, that my neighbor was Tody Tody Smith, brother
to Bubba Smith, So I was I had a number
of athletes in my practice internal Californy. But Ac Collins
stay true to old JA all the way to the end.

(01:08:27):
He was. He was a great friend of Old J.

Speaker 6 (01:08:29):
And you know Ac.

Speaker 5 (01:08:31):
They said, well why did o J run? Well, Ac
was the driver in that in that vehicle. And actually
what happened that morning was that O J. Simpson knew
he had to surrender to l A p D. That morning,
and his designated time this surrender was like eleven thirty

(01:08:52):
that morning of the chase. Well, o J decided to
go to the Great Sight to say a prayer and
say goodbye to us his ex wife. So when he
went to the cemetery in Newport, the gates were locked
and there were two squad cars blocking the gates. So

(01:09:13):
Ac went to a payphone and called LA p D.
And he told him that I have oj uh uh
and we're in transition for OLJ to surrender. While at
that eleven thirty, gil Garcetti, who was a disc attorney

(01:09:33):
of LA went on the air and said, now OJ
is a fugitive from justice, and anybody that is helping
OJ is also aiding and betting and fugitive, and they
will be charged with a felly and so forth. It's
on and so AC. They were announcing us on the
radio can X News. Uh somebody spotted the white Bronco.

(01:09:58):
They called an X and they got the helicopters involved.
And at that point there was a slow parade up
the four or five freeway because o J was coming
home to Sa goodbye to his mother before he would
turn himself in. So the media, the police, the helicopters

(01:10:19):
all that follow OJ back home and they've made this issue.
Og is on the run, He's trying to get away
and all this of the garbage. But that was part
of the media hype. But it was Ac to stay
with him and drove him back there to segodbye to
his mother and uh Ac was never arrested. Gogar said,

(01:10:40):
He said that you know, whoever's abiding the fugitive is
is committing a solonious act. They knew that o J
was turning himself in, but they played it like he
was a fugitive and all that was part of the
part of the crap. But Ac stayed by OJ to
the end. It was Marcus Allen that was having enoughfair

(01:11:04):
with with Nicole. He's the one that ducked out and
would not come back and say, like, you know, Oj
was not this jealous guy as he was portrayed throughout
the media, you know, violent, all that, all that more garbage, right, because.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Let me jump in here, because Marcus didn't wanted his
wife to know that he was cheating on his wife
with Nicole, so that's why he kept quiet. But Jews
didn't care. You know, he was over because he But
let me ask you this though, that that that Bronco chase,
as you mentioned on the four oh five, how did
all those folks? Some people say that it was all
a set up because the people were on the freeway

(01:11:41):
off ramps and say, go, oh Jay go, everybody's charing
for Juice to get away. And there was a huge
crowds all on these off ramps coming from the four
oh five, coming down from San Diego, coming back to
l A. How did those people know? Some people say
that it was set up. We'll say you.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
Well, I'd say so, well. OJ was the king of
Southern California. He was like the number one pitch man
in the media. You know, he's Oja basically put Monday
Night TV on the map. Him and Howard Coach Sell Okay,
he was one of the first super star athletes that

(01:12:19):
got that big money. And you know, football from the
commitment of you know, the generation of the generations to
to two generations ago that put football together. It's brought
football into the mainstream to the point whereby the Super
Bowl is actually a national holidays. It's just really celebrated

(01:12:41):
around the world. So it just shows you the impact
that football has on the American culture. And OJ was
one of the all time stars of professional football, Monday
night football. Now you have football on four nights, Monday night,

(01:13:01):
Thursday night, Sunday night, and you have college football on
Saturday and night. So football has become that's that's the
impact of its football on America. It's one of its
our national one of our national pastimes, and it's actually
one of the biggest holidays and one of the biggest
spending days in you know, in American culture. So I'm

(01:13:25):
just showing you that O J was one of the
heroes that led to the enormous size and impact that
football has on our culture today.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Yeah, but let's be real here, Doc at thirty minutes
at the top, OJ wasn't noted to be in the
black community he wasn't really well. He wasn't you know,
he wasn't down with the brothers, and the brothers you know,
went down with him.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
He wasn't you know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
After he left his first wife, a black woman. OJ
we acknowledge Oja. Oj was cool. But let me say
this though, after he came on the stage, because he
and I had to convince him to come on, and
I said, listen, oh jay uh, we had some old
ladies in the rain look like just like your mother
every day at the at the counter courthouse downtown LA,

(01:14:12):
every single day. And he goes, oh, man, you got
to go to the Mama thing. I said, yeah, you
owed them to tell them. Just come in and tell
them thank you. You know, that's all you got to do.

Speaker 8 (01:14:21):
Man, we did.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
We don't even gut int the weeds of the trial
and all of that stuff, but you need to tell
these black people, especially those those old black ladies, ladies,
thank you. He came so I didn't think he would
show up, but he did. And it was the morning
we had Steve Cochley on was on as our guest.
Then Cochley challenged him, inviting him to come to the
good life. The good life is a restaurant, a vegetarian
restaurant in LA where all uh, many of our folks

(01:14:44):
who come on the radio station, many of our scholars,
they go there every Friday and they have a lecture.
Cochley was always like a scholar in residence, if you will.
And O Jay showed up and that with the black community,
and you know, thank that. And you know, he just says,
I just want to thank you guys for supporting me.
So he sort of flipped after the tribe, but explain

(01:15:05):
that to us, J was not really connected, wasn't down
with the black community in l A.

Speaker 5 (01:15:11):
Well, look, Carl, I don't. I don't really. I don't
really subscribe to that theory. You know, I know OJ personally.
OJ is a very personable guy. Every and anybody that's
around O J. They're just totally fascinated with this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
I agree with that one too. No, I agree, But I'm.

Speaker 5 (01:15:29):
Going to I'm going to point something out to you.
You know, most black celebrities, they're surrounded by white people
period when they white people adore black celebrity. Okay, so
black celebrities by and large are not infiltrated infuse into
the black community. We Obviously we support our actors, our

(01:15:53):
athletes and so on and so forth are entertainers, but
they're not in the community necessarily mixing it up.

Speaker 13 (01:15:59):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:16:00):
So I don't subscribe to that theory, but I will
tell you this that the media has desecrated the the
the personalities by and large or the images of black
men across the board from you know, you can go
all the way back from Malcolm X to Martin Luther King.
You can bring that thingk forward to O. J. Simpson,

(01:16:21):
to Don Kine, to Mike Tyson and Michael Michael Jackson.
You know, if you just what what black figure is
held up in esteem and the modern American u uh
uh media, you can you can hardly you know, you

(01:16:42):
you can you can hardly name one. Okay. So that's
there that they purposely the media, you know, that's the
that's the treachery of the media. They want to cast
uh uh aspersions on black individuals. Bill Cosby, you know,
he's an another one. I mean, Bill ain't done nothing,

(01:17:03):
no more than than Hugh Hefner. But Hugh Heffner is
still a cerebral u celestial star. Okay. So it's like
this is what they do and this is that it
is it is they strategize how to break down the
black persona because black people, black people that are the

(01:17:25):
heartbeat of the world. Black Americans. Okay, if the US
is the one of the strongest nations in the world,
the more one of the most influential nations in the world.
Black Americans, we are the heartbeat of America. We are

(01:17:47):
the culture of America. America is an Afro Atlantic culture.
The center of it is is is the east coast
of on the on the Atlantic between York and d C. Atlanta. Okay,
so they know they watch every move that we make.
And that's why we have to have introspection on the

(01:18:12):
impact that we have on our own people. Where you know,
we're to lose with this, uh some of this, some
of this rap music, I don't really consider music. But
I'm not going to cast dispersions on on on on
the on the on the on the on the artistic
style of rapping. But I will say this that our

(01:18:34):
modern day artists have to consider the impact that they
have on their children as well as the uh you know,
as the committee, where are the John Coltranes of the day,
Where are the Miles Davis's of the day. Where are
the Jimmy Smith and Hammer's organ other day? Where are
the Jimmy Hendrix's of today? You know all of these

(01:18:55):
There has been a systematic approach to suppress actual black
music because black music is so inspirational. I'm gonna say,
I'm gonna make it. You allow me to make this point.

Speaker 11 (01:19:08):
You know, the.

Speaker 5 (01:19:11):
Submit that holds the Black church together is the choir. Okay,
it is the choir. It is the music of the
Black Church and the choir. This music has its roots
in West Africa, all right. There's nothing coming out of
the soul called Holy Land that deals.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
With right and hold that thought right there at doctor Johnson,
We've got to step aside and get caught up with
the lady's news trafficking weather again since you mentioned that,
Just a happy Black History Month to our brothers and
sisters in the UK. They celebrate Black History Month in October.
Of course, they started yesterday. They're going to be celebrating
the entire month. We're discussing that the jury verdict has
heard around the world thirty years ago tomorrow, O. J. Simpson, Innocent,

(01:19:55):
What are your thoughts? Eight hundred and four five zero
seventy eight seventy six. You calls next after the and
grand Rising family sixteen minutes away from the top of
that with that guess, doctor Henry Johnson. Doctor Johnson is
a close friend of o J. Simpson. Thirty years ago tomorrow,
this is when the verdict came down, when the panel
found that OJ was innocent of the murders of Ron
Goleman and Nicole. And the question is, you know, what

(01:20:17):
are your thoughts? Why was the country so divided? Could
it happen again? And you know, doctor Johnson has taken
us through some of the some of the discrepancies during
that trial that were never brought to the trial. The
juror did not hear the trial. So what are your thoughts?
Eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six
also come up Later this momorrow, we're going to speak
with clinical psychologist doctor Jeromy Fox. Maybe we'll ask him

(01:20:37):
the question why country was divided on that particular issue
OJ's innocence or guilt. And some people still think that
o JA committed those murders, even though doctor Johnson had
shared with there's a whole lot of discrepancies during that
trial and some as I mentioned, the juror did not
even see. And again Tomorrow's Friday, We're going to give
you another chance to free your mind on our open
Phone Friday program. All that means is just for yourself

(01:21:01):
and you know, reach out to us as Stunn at
six am Eastern Time right here in Baltimore on ten
ten WLB, also on the DMV on FM ninety five
point nine and AM fourteen fifty WL. So doctor Johnson
man too, he's called from New York City, has a
question for each online three grand rising brother man to
your question for doctor Johnson.

Speaker 10 (01:21:19):
Yes, I'll make it real quick, grand rise into everyone.
Hotel of Aragani freeda line of free the African mind.

Speaker 5 (01:21:27):
Sir.

Speaker 10 (01:21:29):
There was a I think there was a thing with
the labor shooting at the lab during the time or
the year of the OJ trial. Is that urban legend
that four lab technicians or there was the some type
of four government workers were shot at the fatally shot
unfortunately in the building where the LA Lab was crime lab?

(01:21:52):
Is that truth of urban fiction? And then secondly, real quick,
what was OJ's Simpsons relationship with Willie May Is the
great will mean if you have any insight on that.

Speaker 5 (01:22:04):
I can't really say if if there was violencer, there
was killing at the l A p D Crime Lab.
I I this is the first time I've heard this.
All I can tell you is that there was a
number of deaths of INDUSD individuals that were somehow either

(01:22:24):
closely or distantly connected to the Trial of the Century.
There was UH, and there were three folks that were
killed in Florida. There was also, as I mentioned earlier,
Michael nick won the the lead wars at the Messalona
was killed during three weeks before he was to testified

(01:22:44):
in the trial. So you know, there are there's obviously
the entire UH investigation was a cover up.

Speaker 4 (01:22:55):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:22:55):
There, I'm shirt and that there are facts that point
to actually the people that actually did this and people
that know about it. It's like a phenomena that happens,
one of these mysterious phenomenas that happened in America, like
the kin the assassination that Lee Harvey Oswald. Was he
the guy or was James Alday the actual guy that

(01:23:17):
killed martlu the King? You know hot did the towers
in New York collapse?

Speaker 7 (01:23:22):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:23:22):
Did this guy tried to Kirk was he killed by
a twenty two year old marksmen on top of a roof?
I mean, we're you know, there's there's always these these
issues that question the events in it that go on
in America, and definitely one involving O J. Simpson. There
was there were two killers that did this. The more

(01:23:45):
lethal was left handed. Now that is the clinical assessment.
I thirty doctors looked at my work and they all
concur that, you know, I left he did this. I
have never been refuted. And that's one reason that O
J kept me, kept me close because I came with

(01:24:06):
information that basically exonerates OJ. But OJ was, he was,
he was beat down and and it was and it
was they they attacked him financially, you know, they attacked him,
uh spiritually, they attacked his reputation, you know. So you know,
the guy carried a whole lot of weight. I called
him like I call it the American and the American crucifixion.

(01:24:28):
But o J actually was emblematic of what happens to
blacks by and large in the criminal justice system. Oh
J just had the money to fight these devils. Okay,
so we can we can, we can praise God that
old Jay gave us the likes of Johnny Cochran and Jay.
He allowed Johnny Cocker to be on that up on

(01:24:49):
that center stage by virtue of playing his money up
too uh to defend himself. Because if Old Jay didn't
have uh the well said he had, he would have
had to take a deal. He would have been in
the bottom of San Quentin.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:25:06):
So when people say, well the guy ran back to
the black community blah blah blah when he got in trouble,
No he did, and he ran to his bank, he
got his money, He handled his business. He matched them
dollar for dollar. Okay, he matched the deep pockets of
the government. And he put the star up there, the
captain up there, Johnny Cochran and Johnny Cochran handled his business.

(01:25:28):
But Johnny Cochran had to had to hold his mond.
Johnny Cochran had to keep it secret because lawyers have
to make deals all the time, so Johnny could not
expose the phone records. But what Johnny wagered was, look,
you gotta give me Geronimo Pratt. You want me to
be quiet, I'll be quiet on this. So I gotta

(01:25:49):
gamble with O. J. Simpson. I gotta be quiet on
his phone records because I got to get my man
Geronimo Pratt release that also went on a sick pitious
charge of murder. They knew he didn't do it, and
ultimately Johnny Cochrane freed Geronimo Pratt pretty much following O. J.

(01:26:10):
Simpson's case.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
I'm glad you mentioned that connection. You're right about Ojink.
I got to make him after the decision, and you're right.
He's like, he's just a down brother alfable, he's a
you know people, he's just friendly. But let me ask
you this question though. Actually it's a question that came
in from one of our listeners who says, the question
of a Russian satellite that offered them a satellite picture

(01:26:34):
of the area I guess that would be Brentwood where
this took place, but the prosecution rejected it. Do you
do you recall that at all?

Speaker 13 (01:26:42):
No?

Speaker 5 (01:26:42):
No, I Yeah, Like I said, I'm sure there's a
lot of evidence status that they have a narrative. Okay,
they use this narrative for political coinage, Okay, because they
wanted to diminish the impact that black society has on America. Okay,

(01:27:04):
that's how we got in the political situation that we're
in today because we from the civil rights movement, with
the advent of with the effect of professional sports and music.
I mean, the melting pot was was the pot was,

(01:27:24):
it was was turning, it was speeding up, and black
people have a positive influence on society. They needed to
mix that, they needed to stop that because ultimately, when
we had to deal with the quality of life for everybody,
and black people have always been there, you know, well morally, okay, consciously,

(01:27:47):
we have been the cornerstone of American society. And so
I just say this to say that they uses o
J trial to polarize racial groups and they stir up
this animosity amongst white groups, and Jews are part of it.

(01:28:08):
When you can't leave them out, man. And so I'm
just here to tell you that we have to be
truthful and we can't be scared to tell the truth.
You know, the truth really will set you free. You
know that's john eight thirty two, same number as oj
is something. The truth will will set you free.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Okay, And hold's thought right there. Let me share something
with you. I'm not sure if you know that, but
Johnny did not. Actually I'm the honest when and OJ
came to to take the case. Did he didn't take it?
He told me he went to his pastor at Second
Avenue Baptist Church in la He says, I had to
go to my pastor and you know, and asking me,
you know, because all all the stories going around with

(01:28:51):
OJ did it, and people were already made up their
minds that he was, that OJ was guilty. So he
said he had a conversation with his pastor before deciding
that not to take the case because he saw the
enormity of what he was going to take to get
OJ off. And many people don't know that, but he
shared that with us in our audience when he was
when he would call in. Here's another thing that we

(01:29:12):
talked about too. One of the one of the trials
going on doc, he went up to Chris Darden and
he says they were getting hammered that day. So he
went up to Chris Darden and said, hey man, nice tie.
And he threw Darden off his track because Darden was
like Johnny Cochran just complimented about my tie. Here we
are with this trial and he's talking about my tiny
He kept looking at the tyler. He couldn't finish finish

(01:29:32):
his cross examination. So Marshall had to finish the cross examination.
So the next day we asked Johnny about that. He says, yeah, man,
they were killing us. I just needed some time out,
run out of the clock. I know he'd be distorted
about about his tie, because you know, everybody knows that
Johnny was an impeccable dresser. I mean he was a
straight up one of the one of the things about
the wholemarks of Johnny Cock and he did not see

(01:29:53):
his legal skills, but how he dressed and he was
he blew him away because he kept saying, Donny cochrane
complimented on my tie. He kept looking at the time
trying to figure out what was it. In this time,
they just got on the Johnny was admiring exist and Josh,
I don't care about his time. I just wanted to
stop his tracks because he was he was doing some
stuff that we didn't know and we had to just
run out of the clock. And we're going to get

(01:30:13):
him today, we'll go back into court. That was an
interesting part of what happened during the trial. Doc.

Speaker 5 (01:30:19):
Okay, well, I would I will say this, you know
when I I wrote the like I said, OJ's petition
to the California Supreme Court. Okay, the I got an
invitation to give all argument at OJ's appeal. When they

(01:30:40):
learned what I was going to say, they blocked me
from giving all argument. Okay. So following OJ's appeal, I uh,
they sent me a certified copy of the three judges
ruling to sustain the thirty three million dollars verdict against

(01:31:01):
o J. Okay, and o J I told. I called OJ.
I said he was in Miami. I said, you know
they they upheld the verdict. You owe the money? And
he said I had heard it. So I said, well,
I'll send you. I'll overnight you a copy of the
of the the Pillow Courts verdict. So I shot that

(01:31:22):
to him, and then o J says he heard from
his lawyers. They told me to I might as well
forget it. I'll never win anything. You got your pension,
you got your family back. Just go ahead and give
your you know, just go ahead and live out your
life and stop fighting. And OJ asked me, he says,

(01:31:43):
what do you think I should do? And I said, OJ,
I said, you should continue to fight to clear your name.
I said, you could potentially help other men that didn't
have the financial wherewith all to fight their cases, and
you can expose the corruption and the criminal justice system.
And I said, well, I want to fight, but I'm
tapped out. I said, well, let me see what I

(01:32:04):
could do. And I read the sixty five page verdict
of the Appellate Court and there was one paragraph that
I didn't truly understand, but I wrote that on an
index card and walked around with it for a week,
and then I was laying in the bathtub one night

(01:32:24):
and it came to me, bam, and I went to
my desk and I started writing it. And that paragraph
is a paragraph that protects of the Crookeet cops and
confidential informant and I busted it. And so when I
put that, I put that brief together and the Supreme

(01:32:44):
Court accepted it okay. And at that point there was
a group called brown Bonsteal in Hate. They are the
largest certified law specialists in the country. They filed a
front of the court on top of the Supreme Court
petition that I filed. Brown Bone Still I called him

(01:33:07):
up and they told me. They said Johnny Cochrane came
to them and asked them to write old Jay's petitions.
They want it or they want actually they wanted Johnny
Cochran went to Brown and Bone Still to write OL
Jay's appeal and they were big. They said they got
they don't need the publicity. They got too much on

(01:33:29):
their plate.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
And they say, right, the story right there. I let
you finish that story when we get back. We've got
to take another look at the traffic and weather in
that different cities. It's free away from the top of
a half family guess is Henry Johnson a close friend
of O. J. Simpson. Tomorrow is the thirtieth anniversary of
the jury decision that was heard around the world finding
OJ innocence of those murders. What are your thoughts? Eight
hundred and four to five zero seventy eight seventy six

(01:33:51):
calls after the trafficking weather that's next and grind rising
family in thanks are starting your Thursday with us and
our guest that doctor Henry Johnson's calling is from LA.
Doctor Johnson's a close friend of O. J. Simpson. And
Tomorrow in thirty years is the day when the verdict
was announced that OJ was innocent of the murder the
double murders that out in Westwood. So and coming up shortly,
let me just mention that doctor Fox is on deck.

(01:34:11):
Will get to doctor Fox Momentaril. But uh, doctor Johnson,
L had to finish your thought. And then a question,
Carla has a question about Willie may Is helping O
Jay during the trial. Did you know about that because
there were friends will He of course playing for the
Giants in San Francisco, and that's where OJ came from,
San Francisco, That's where he came on the radar of
USC before it became most folks knew him. So I'd

(01:34:32):
like to finished your thought and then tell says it
was really made because OJ told me personally, a lot
of his friends dropped him, you know, after he was
after after the trial started, before when he was accused,
a lot of his close friends they stopped speaking to them,
especially his white friends. That's what he told me.

Speaker 5 (01:34:47):
But go ahead, Yeah, well I like Brown Bond still
and hey, Johnny cancer went the ass. That was his
first choice to write Old Jason Pills of Santa Monica verdict.
They said, we you know, we're too busy, we can't
handle it. But after they read my petition that I
wrote to the Supreme court. Now, I'm not a lawyer.

(01:35:08):
I'm just an investigator on board certified in internal medicine.
But I reviewed the case. There's two killers. Nicole Brown
and her mother spoke on the phone after midnight when
OJ was on his way to Chicago way. They hit
all that evidence, but.

Speaker 6 (01:35:25):
They the this big.

Speaker 5 (01:35:29):
Certified law firm, They said that they would. They wrote
a Friend of the Court brief. They attached it to
my petition and they told me that they would pick
up OJ's legal fight. And I mentioned that to Oji,
but he said he was just By this time, the

(01:35:49):
petition had already been submitted into a court. But Johnny
Cochrane had gone to after he went to Bone Steel,
he went to the Bacon Brothers. Okay, and the Bakers
are the ones that did oh Ja's appeal of Santa
Monica vertic and incidentally, Joyce Speiser that investigated that was

(01:36:10):
with us when my me and my brother met with
Glenn Rogers' brother. She took a photograph of n Cole
Brown and Glenn Rogers, who were partying at the House
of Blues the night before she died. She took that
photo to the Bakers. Okay, that did o Jay's appeal

(01:36:30):
of the Santa Monica verdict. And you know, she told
me that she gave that picture. She went back after
the verdict was over and she asked them for that
picture back because she wanted to include it in her book.
And she told me that the Bakers had lost that picture.
So here's a picture of Nicole Brown Simpson with this

(01:36:50):
serial killer that she was dating, this left handed serial killer. Okay,
and LAPD didn't want nothing to do with it because
Glenn Rogers is a conventional It is a confidential informant
that worked with law enforcement across the United States. Okay,
So that's how embedded this guy is with the O

(01:37:13):
J hold O J. Simpson trial. But back to Willie Mays.
Willie Mays was O J. Simpson's godfather.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:37:21):
Willie Mays by launch, kept OJ on the straight and
narrow as a Pop Warner football athlete all the way
through high school and on to UH to UH to
UH Community College. Okay, so they had an intimate relationship.

(01:37:41):
I want. I want to also add that when OJ
was acquitted, O j Uh and his kids and his sister,
they went to Never Never Land Ranch with Michael Jackson
and camped out with Michael Jackson for about a month.
So Michael Jackson opened his home up oj and his

(01:38:01):
family for oj state out there with Michael Jackson for
over a month. The last thing I want to mention
is Ojay's friends and colleagues and so forth kind of
moved away from Well. The media was against them, the
entertainment established was against them. The Jewish society by and
large was against them. I want to say this, if

(01:38:26):
you're afraid to tell the truth, you are still a slave.
It doesn't matter how much money you make. If you're
afraid to stand up for the truth, you're still a slave, okay.
And the way this world works is like you got
to get involved with these slave catchers in order for

(01:38:47):
you to make a living. And so that's why a
lot of people stand down. I'm an independent guy, so
I you know, I'm etcric okay, but I'm not. I
have the I do have fear, okay, but I have
a courage to get the job done. I'm going to
tell the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
We're stuffing that because we run out of time, Doc,
and I apologize to all the folks who sent me
questions for you, because we could go on and on
about the oj trial and again thirty years tomorrow when
that's when you the media is going to deal with it.
So we thought we'd deal with the day before the
thirty days here the trial of the century, when the
jury found that Oja was innocent, and they tried to

(01:39:28):
blame it on jury nullifications, saying the sisters would not
find oj guilty and you know, trying to discredit the
legal skills of Johnny Conchrane. But before I let you go,
as you mentioned, you got two books out. How can
folks get copies of those books that wanted because a
lot of people are still obsessed with that trial, so
how can they reach you? You get the copies of
the books, you have a website or email address?

Speaker 5 (01:39:49):
Well, you know the truth is Alfred the Omega. My
name is doctor Henry Johnson, m D. I mean I'm
based in California and Los Angeles, lom Beach. You can
you can can google me, you can find me. I
can get you a copy of the book, or you
can go to Amazon in order of the book. And
don't forget Serpents Rising the documentary and lastly my brother's

(01:40:12):
book in Pursuit of Exhibit thirty five.

Speaker 3 (01:40:17):
Cal.

Speaker 5 (01:40:17):
I want to congratulate you. You're a pillar in the community,
the Black community of America buy and large.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
Man.

Speaker 5 (01:40:23):
It takes guys that have the intestinal fortitude, you know,
to continue to fight year one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:30):
Yeah, I just bring people on that. That's my job.
And we had you on back in the day during
the trial. And thank you because you've steadfast and stood
by Oja all this through, you know, and some other
conversation we'll have maybe later at some time. Why do
you go back to Vegas? Because I'm run into him
in Miami on Miami Beach and it was just a
half a one his I I forgot to play golf
and all this kind of stuff, and I thought he

(01:40:52):
was happy in Florida, and then all of a sudden
he goes back to you know, But that's for another day.
We get into that. But doctor Johns, and I want
to thank you for joining.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
Us this morning.

Speaker 5 (01:41:01):
I just make this point, man, when they got a
when they got a target on your back, you know
they're they're coming to get you, man, But we can't
stop the fight. Remember they pop mar lista Ken, they
kill Malcolm X. I mean, oh j Was is a
celebrity he represents, and you know there was there was
a there was a target on his back. You're not
gonna You're not gonna avoid that, but just continue to fight.

(01:41:24):
Hold the front line. We got to tell the truth.
That's our greatest weapon. Our morals are conscious, our intuition
and our truth run with that every day.

Speaker 3 (01:41:34):
Got it. Doc?

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Thank you, Thank you for sharing your thoughts this morning.
All right, family, appreciate, thank you. That's doctor Henry Johnson,
as I mentioned, a close friend of o jam We
were just roll over that trial when he took place.
I mentioned he was one of the folks that would
call up and give us all this information, along with
Johnny Cochran joined the trial anyway, ten and a half
that top day. Let's turn attention out to doctor Jeroni
Fox and doctor Fox grand Rising, welcome back to the program.

Speaker 9 (01:41:58):
Yes, thank you for having me and not.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
To function Piggy, just getting, you know, stretching a little
bit over the conversation we had with doctor Johnson about
the Oja trial. Tomorrow's the thirtieth anniversary of the jury
reaching the verdict that Oja was innocent, and I'm sure
he remember to the trial, but it seems to be
it's divided the It divided the country at the time,
and I mentioned that they showed in Times Square, that

(01:42:22):
they showed white folks in Times Square when the verdict
was read. You seem like everybody was playing attention to
the tellision when the verdict was read across this country
and the gas, the gas were coming from white folks
when they heard the verdict that Oja was innocent. And
then they had a group of Howard University students they
juxtapposed at it and they were celebrating. How did you

(01:42:44):
see that? How did cold you? Can you process that
for us? Because they're trying to tell us that it
was during notullifications, that the jurors mostly black women, they
were on educated int know, the sophisticated of the science,
and they wouldn't put a brother down and all of
that nonsense, that it was its time for us to
win one for the system. How did you process all
of that when you saw that?

Speaker 9 (01:43:04):
Well, I have to say I was not obsessed with
the trial at all. The from what I was, you know,
kind of peripherally, what I peripherally gathered is is that
this whole controversy was just steeped in the usual racial troops.

(01:43:29):
I was never a fan of oj My Lingering. Thought
about him sin making a statement that he thought he
was born in the wrong body, that he should have
been born white, and people like that, I just kind
of dismiss And of course I'm not a worshiper of

(01:43:51):
any of these so called black celebrities, which really white
society picks for us. They tried to tell who we
should be friends with, who we should admire, and we
just say yes, sir, and do that. But so he
was never really a person of any significance in my mind. However,

(01:44:18):
you could not avoid the all of the talk about
the trial, and all of that talk seemed to me
to be immersed in the usual, you know, tropes about
black people and us not having the skill or the
intellect to do what MATHSA wants us to do. Quite frankly,

(01:44:42):
whether he was guilty or not guilty, he didn't seem
to me to be all that important, uh, in terms
of people's reactions to the verdict, particularly as you mentioned,
the divide between blacks and whites. That's the typical divide.

(01:45:04):
Whites have been getting away with murdering black people, lynching
black people for years and had become accustomed to them
being able to just you know, kill black people, not
respect black life, but us never being able to do

(01:45:26):
the same to them. So I think a lot of
the black people's reactions once again, whether or not they
thought he was guilty or not, was really speak more
in that than the fact that here we once get
away with, you know, if indeed he did do it,

(01:45:47):
you know, killing a white person, almost as retribution for
all all of the black people that whites have killed,
the innocent black people that whites have. So I think
it was just steeped in a lot of historical and
a lot of history, and a lot of people's reactions

(01:46:11):
really had nothing to do with the verdict quite Franklin.

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
Well I asked about another incident that took place took
place this week or was it last week? Asada Corp.
She died in Cuba and many of the black community
was celebrating that. FBI Director Cash Betel says, we shouldn't
be celebrating. She's a murder. We should not telling us
who we He's trying to tell us who we should
support and who we shouldn't support exactly.

Speaker 9 (01:46:40):
And I'm always pleased to see black people.

Speaker 5 (01:46:45):
Not following the.

Speaker 9 (01:46:50):
White racist instructions about who we should support and who
we shouldn't. As I said my book, that power is
not into personal. It's really intra psychic. You have the
power to decide what you want to do with your life.

Speaker 14 (01:47:08):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:47:08):
Influence is different, that is interpersonal. But even there you
decide who who you will will allow to influence you.

Speaker 5 (01:47:21):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:47:22):
We we have been robbed of that knowledge and we
just go along with whatever we're instructed to do or
to think. As I've said many times before, we hardly
have an independent thought of our own. We rely on
these on our pressors to give us everything, healthcare and

(01:47:43):
even our thoughts, and that that's quite unfortunate. So yeah,
we shouldn't even pay that aim, and particularly coming from
someone like that who's just a uh an avowed UH race.
Just as all of those cabinet members, even the ones

(01:48:04):
of color, they are self hating. So we can't respect
anything that they say.

Speaker 1 (01:48:12):
You know, interesting, you mentioned we don't have any any
I know, you don't minus a blanket statement. We say,
many of us don't have independent thoughts of our own.
How do we how do we tackle that? And we
come up on a break and I let you respond
when we get back from the break, though, doctor Fox,
how do we change that? Because you're right, people think
for us and people do we think of our friends?
Tell us and we don't investigate, We don't do any

(01:48:34):
research on the issues. Again, not blanket, but many of
us don't do that. We just somebody tells you that
this person is AOL and you agree and you pass
it on, and but you don't and the person might
be the nicest person in the world. So tell us,
how do we deal with that? And when we get
back from the break seventeen minutes to have the top
day our family. You got a question for our guests
to doctor Jeromey Fox. Reach out to us it eight

(01:48:55):
hundred four five zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll
take you phone calls next with us with that guest
that dtor Jeremy Fox is the author of the best
selling workbook Addicted to White The Oppressed in League with
the Oppressor, a shame based alliance. Doctor Fox is there
are five core white values that many of us are
addicted to. But doctor Fox, before we get all of that,

(01:49:15):
you mentioned that many of us, you know, we don't
have independent thoughts we we seem to rely on other
people for opinions.

Speaker 9 (01:49:23):
Why well, there perhaps are several reasons. Laziness cognitive indolence
as it is referred to indolence is just laziness. Cognitive
indolence is one factor. Fear and money slash survival. You know,

(01:49:48):
white don't want us to have any independent thoughts, as
I say in my workbook, So if I can turn
to it, we make a We've made a pack with
our oppressors that you know, as they'll allow us to survive,

(01:50:12):
maybe in some cases, do better than survive, if as
long as we submit our souls to them, you know,
our independence to them. And where will they We have

(01:50:32):
been willing in the past to strike that bargain with them.
We think it's a bargain. And maybe in some cases
it looked like we didn't have any other choice except
except to accept that or die. And even though as

(01:50:52):
I said many times, we tout the old spiritual before
I be a slave, I be buried in my grave,
we don't really believe that. And we understand or we
certainly don't live up to that. Uh as I say
in the book and the Chamber of Fear. So fear
is a factor. A version of the infamous faust exchange

(01:51:16):
is made between us and our white oppressors. White oppressors
agree not to take the physical life of Africans in
exchange for our mental life. So you know, we say
okay uh to that, and they even you know, select

(01:51:36):
a few of us, like O. J. Simpson uh to
be poster children for you know, for white supremacy, and
of course they go along with that hook line and sinker.
You think of the people that have no capacity to see,

(01:51:58):
since we're talking athletics black athletes as nothing more than
America's gladiators. They just don't even have the capacity to
think in those terms. Because we've been trained, number one,
to value entertainment above everything else, including our own independence

(01:52:19):
and struggle for that independence. We'd rather sit at home
and watch a ball game than go out and join
a protest or inform ourselves or even educate our children
as to our history and the seriousness of our of
our pressure and.

Speaker 5 (01:52:37):
What to do about it.

Speaker 9 (01:52:39):
So, I mean, these people, these gladiators, have been put
before us to entertain us, but also to mollify us
so that we don't think about the things that we
ought to be thinking. About in terms of securing our liberation.

(01:53:03):
So I mean, so you know, you know, money and
survival is a factor. And as a result of that exchange,
that faustian exchange that we've been made with our press,
is we dumb down, that we we sort of numb
our our our soul to the point where we become lazy.

(01:53:25):
We just lazily cognitive cognitively lazy. We just accept whatever
is given to us and don't even try to extend
any kind of effort and energy and opposing, Uh, these
ideas that are given to us. And then there's the

(01:53:47):
fear if you are independent, as I think the brother
mentioned before me, Look what happens. Uh, you're pretty because
we don't. We're not united enough to protect the independent
thinkers among us. They are picked off very easily by

(01:54:12):
our enemy. So those are the factors that keep us bound.

Speaker 1 (01:54:18):
Twenty five toye, let me ask you this. So those factors,
these are some vestiges of are the period of enslavement?
Are we suffering some of us from some post somatic
slavery syndrome?

Speaker 9 (01:54:29):
Yes, this is all you know, This has all been
cultivated by our experience of being captive under these white
monsters for remember, hundreds of years, So you don't escape

(01:54:49):
that kind of mind conditioning, hundreds of years of mind conditioning,
implanting fear through you know, killing you on the drop.
If you look at the white person the wrong way,
they could kill you. If you sash them in quotes
in any way, they could kill you. So you just

(01:55:12):
don't throw off that kind of conditioning, you know, instantly.
That's why I believe we need something like this workbook
that I've written, and that's why I wrote it, which
concentrates on correcting the damage that's done to our minds,
because it's all starts there. That's why we can't unify.

(01:55:37):
That's why we can't do anything but except their nonsense.
It's because of the condition of our brains. And until
we address that, put everything else aside, in my opinion,
to address that, oh, we're only going to have minimals scattered,
you know, successes for a few people.

Speaker 1 (01:56:00):
But how can we address that though if we don't
know that we're there, we're still we don't know that,
we don't know what we don't know.

Speaker 9 (01:56:07):
Let me put it that, well, well, that's true, and
and that's why I use the analogy of an addict.
I say we're addicted because the addicted person initially does
not know how serious their chemical dependency is. Be it
a liquid like alcohol, are so called harder drugs, the

(01:56:32):
attic does sink. The chemically dependent person does not know uh,
the seriousness of their condition until somebody approaches them and
begins to explain, begins to point out all the things
that they are, all of the problems that their addiction

(01:56:57):
is creating in their life. And you know, that's why
people like you are really important. Uh. Air waves unlike
this are important to try to convince people that, indeed,
this is the problem. I think people have even to

(01:57:20):
some degree become inured or accustomed to their poverty, poverty
of thoughts, pity, poverty of materials.

Speaker 13 (01:57:31):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:57:31):
We've adapted human beings. All human beings are very adaptable,
and you can become. In my family, I have mentioned
this before. We used to have a saying that black folk,
and my elders didn't use the term black folk. They
used to term the the N word. Can become accustomed

(01:57:53):
to anything, including hanging if we hang long long enough,
and that kind of left and ands on my mind,
on my young mind. That and as I grew older,
I could see there's a lot of truth in that.
And as I studied, you know, became a behavioral social scientist,

(01:58:16):
it was confirmed just how adaptable the human spirit is,
so we can adapt to pretty much anything, and unfortunately,
we have adapted to our own oppression in many ways.

Speaker 1 (01:58:33):
Yeah, thirty minutes, I have the top day and doctor
Wilson says, we're not trying to fight or dismantle the
system of racis and white supremacy. Many of us are
just looking for a better spot in the systems.

Speaker 9 (01:58:45):
As I say in my book, we're not trying to
fight the oppressor. We want to become the oppressor. And
you know, but you need those voices in your ears,
just like the chemically addicted person needs. It's a voice
in their ears constantly saying, hey, look at the problems

(01:59:06):
that that your life has as a result of your addiction.
And so that's how you penetrate that wall of denial
or just ignorance to themselves by constantly pointing out, hey, look, uh,
look at your lives. Look at our lives. It's black people.

(01:59:27):
We should be doing a whole lot better. Everything that
we built and contributed to this society. We should be
on top if there is a top and bottom, so
you know, you just constantly point that out and and
hopefully fully break through. I remember there was that I

(01:59:52):
was treating addicts. There was this whole series of work
books called breaking Through. I think it's called and that's it.
Exactly what we have to do through a constant kind
of reminding, pointing out to our people our sorry situation,

(02:00:13):
and then here's what you can do about it in
terms of detoxifying from this white value system and this
white worldview.

Speaker 1 (02:00:23):
All right, eight hundred five seventy eight to seventy six.
Got a tweet question for it, But Sandra and Baltimore
has a question for us. She's online one grand Rising. Soandre,
you're on with doctor Fox.

Speaker 13 (02:00:34):
Excuse me, Graham arrizing to you call and doctor Fox
the one in Doctor Fox. I just loved you. I
couldn't wait for you to come on, Trinky Fox. Everything
everything you were saying.

Speaker 4 (02:00:46):
Is absolutely true.

Speaker 13 (02:00:48):
And I feel the same way you do about o J.
I didn't really care that much about him anyway, because
I think believe he's gonna bring him down. He's out
of his leg was like you said, black people must
learn when you do and when you when they give
you a little bit of crumbs, and if you don't
do what they want you to do, when you get
them crumbs and stay your laying, they will bring you

(02:01:10):
back and forth.

Speaker 9 (02:01:11):
Right, it's at a price, you know. Those crumbs are costly.

Speaker 13 (02:01:16):
Yes, you pay a price, and you know. And then
some black men would read history, really read history to
see that the white master wife was one of the
meanest people in the world was blacks, and what she ordered.

Speaker 9 (02:01:32):
Can't get enough of them? Yes, you wouldn't.

Speaker 13 (02:01:35):
You wouldn't even want them.

Speaker 9 (02:01:36):
You wouldn't even exactly you know.

Speaker 13 (02:01:39):
And so sometimes you have to put it in their
face to let them know. So, okay, I'm sorry that
they took everything they did. But when he stepped out
there like he did, and he's gonna let a waitress,
a white waitress, a white woman who had no education,
no money, bring him to the point to his demise.

(02:02:00):
So I said, he got what he got, and it
is what it is. Thanks, and keep telling me you're
absolutely right. Black people are addicted. If you build a
ship right now and put all the white people and
send them tomorrow's black be the first one to get
another ship and go get him and bring them back.

Speaker 8 (02:02:22):
Thank you all right, call him something somebody.

Speaker 13 (02:02:25):
I love you, doctor Fox.

Speaker 7 (02:02:27):
Thank all right.

Speaker 1 (02:02:29):
Thanks Andra. A twe question for you, doctor Fox, and
twet says granmarizing. Will you ask doctor Fox how does
he think blacks should get their thoughts and beliefs from
when we go when we go to white schools at
an age four, harsh music is everywhere, the meet is everywhere.
How would black parents save their children if they choose
to What's some of the techniques can they use?

Speaker 6 (02:02:51):
Right?

Speaker 9 (02:02:52):
Well, we have more agency and pack our then we
are train and to recognize it is clear we are
bombarded twenty four seven with the white oppressors Worldview twenty

(02:03:13):
four seven TV magazines nothing but white, white, white, white
um or want to be white folk. So that is
it is extremely difficult to get your act together in
the midst of what I call that white noise. You

(02:03:33):
can't even hear yourself. I think you're independent self think
amid that white noise.

Speaker 4 (02:03:40):
So you have to.

Speaker 9 (02:03:43):
Develop strategy is to block out the distractions. We have
the capacity to school, homeschool our children. There are people
who are doing it all over the country. Tree and
Unfortunately those people are not united in some kind of league.

(02:04:09):
Black people could develop a league of independent teachers who
help introduce black households to homeschooling if necessary, or just
take a greater interest, and your local community school be there.

(02:04:34):
And because that's your your previous college mentioned about black
people not reading whatever, we don't know how to read.
We have been taught properly. As we hand our children's
brains over to the masa, they make sure that we
don't know how to read, or account or anything else,

(02:04:55):
and we're sitting at home or too busy working to
notice or get involved with our kids education. During the sixties,
there was this moment to establish independent black schools and
they were springing up everywhere. Most of those schools have
died out because we don't value Apparently, we don't see

(02:05:21):
the value in controlling our children's education. And that throws
me back to another thing that we could do that
we have agency to do. If you cannot, as I've
said many times, educate your children properly, feed your children properly,

(02:05:45):
and do all the things that kids need in order
to grow into being revolutionists. Like I say, we need
to be raising revolutionists. If you can't do that, then
stop having all these and children. You have one kid
you have to work night and day to support and

(02:06:05):
they and you have another the one that's that's inexcusable
if you can't educate your children properly, feeds your children.
Have this commercial about feeding children with these two black
kids saying, you know, my mom works all the time.

(02:06:26):
Number one, that's a problem a single household. My mom
works all the time. Uh, if we didn't get our
food at school, we probably wouldn't need What kind of
nonsense is that?

Speaker 6 (02:06:38):
That?

Speaker 9 (02:06:39):
That means that you can't afford to really have you
in the first darned place. So there's a lot of
things we can do, uh that that we're just not
motivated to do. And maybe people haven't pointed that out.
A lot of the situations that we're in economically and otherwise,
we have put ourselves and hold up thought.

Speaker 1 (02:07:01):
Right there, Doc, we got to step aside a few moments,
and I want you to expound on it. This is
important what you're saying. I want you to share with us,
especially the attack on the black family. And if you
can provide some solutions too, it appreciate it. I know
a lot of the solutions are in your book. Addicted
to White, the oppressed, in league with the oppressor, a
shame based alliance. That's the part I like. This's the
shame based alliance. Family, you got questions for doctor Fox,

(02:07:22):
reach out to us at eight hundred four or five
zero seventy eight seventy six and take your phone calls
next and Grand Rising family, thanks for rolling with us
on this Thursday morning and the second day of October
with their already family. And I should also mention that
I got a note from our listeners in the UK.
This month is Black History Month in Britain. So it

(02:07:42):
heads up to all these folks you got friends in
the UK, just let them know a happy Black History
Month to the folks they celebrate in October. I haven't
figured out why they do it in October, so we
do it in February. But Black History Months started yesterday
in the United Kingdom. Also, Johnny Cochran Johnny Cockin's birthday today,
we talked a lot about Ojay and today's Annie Cochran's
birthday was born in nineteen thirty seven. Manies transition in

(02:08:03):
two thousand and five. Somewhere he's listening to us and Johnny,
we did a lot for us and we appreciate it.
Tomorrow's Friday with another chance for you to free your
mind and join us for our Open Phone Friday program
began promptly at six am Eastern Time right here in
Baltimore on ten ten WLB interfere in the DMV. We're
on FM ninety five point nine and AM fourteen fifty WOL.
All right, Doc, before we left, you attend us about

(02:08:26):
some of the problems, especially when it comes to the
black black black family, the disintegration of the black family.
Some of the problems you say are sort of self inflicted.
Can you go deep on that for us?

Speaker 9 (02:08:35):
Yeah, And it's because we don't. We're now trained to
think strategically. And once, by the way, once the condition
mind has indeed been conditioned, it is almost self perpetuating
from generation to generation. So you wind up in the

(02:08:59):
situations whereby just to give a simple example, your parents
didn't read that much, so you don't read that much.
Your parents weren't into school that much, so you're not
really into school, and you just pass these conditioned responses
from one generation to the other. There learned and picked

(02:09:20):
up by one generation after another, and that's why things
seem after a while just so intractable that you can't
really correct them. But I tried to encourage people to
think more strategically, which also we are discouraged from thinking.

(02:09:41):
As I've mentioned, you know, I get up thinking like
a general, and I go to bed thinking like a general.
And by the way, I was pleased to see that
there are non white generals in that audience that Trump

(02:10:01):
called to Virginia recent the other day, because if they're
a I would hope that if these white monsters which
tried to attack act or eliminate uh US from this

(02:10:21):
land there at our black servicemen would just step in
and stop that completely, so you know, if if their
minds are not too captured by this white worldview. But
any rate, we have to think strategically. As they say,
I get out thinking like a general and go to

(02:10:42):
bed thinking and like a general. But in order to
do that, there was a quote that I had, yeah,
oddly enough, was by Eleanor Roosevelt. She said, one can
fight a danger, and certainly we have been in danger

(02:11:02):
and still are are in danger. One can fight a
danger only when one is armed with solid facts and
spurred on by an unwavering faith and determination.

Speaker 5 (02:11:20):
And that is very true.

Speaker 9 (02:11:22):
Armed with solid facts, where are we going to get
those solid facts about us and not about them? The
only way we're going to get those solid facts is
if we give them to each other. But we're not
oriented to the idea that we're even in danger. So

(02:11:43):
how you're going to inspire people to think strategically or
like generals if if there's no danger uh that they're facing.
The if we think that there is no danger that
that that we face, so we're situations arise like today

(02:12:04):
with this clown and and and grand Wizard in the
White House, maybe that will wake us up to the
fact that we are in danger and have been endangered
since you're all along. Uh. And it's that those in
what they call inflection points uh, that folk like myself

(02:12:27):
and and and your radio station can swoop in hopefully
and you know, wake our people up and get them
on a course of of of really preparing themselves to
fight back. And that's what this whole work book is about.
Preparing our minds to fight and effective uh or to

(02:12:53):
mount and an effective uh of battle uh successful battle
against our white oppressors.

Speaker 1 (02:13:02):
But how do we do that doc and twelve away
from the top of that, it's intimidation all around us.
You know, they attack the word woke, and what you're
talking about is getting how people awake and to understand
what's going on. And many of our people are afraid
to even associate anything like that. They're scared. There's there's
sort of a fear.

Speaker 9 (02:13:21):
One by one and understand that it doesn't it won't
be everybody. Uh So, uh, there are there's no war.
I asked people, well, and in what war or war
has there been no casualties? So these walking dead black
folk that we see are the casualties of this psychological

(02:13:46):
war that has been waged against and stuff since we
were dragged from other Africa to this continent. So these
those are the casualties. But there are recruits out there
that we can gather just by you know, one on
one conversations, getting people to read books like this, uh,

(02:14:11):
like my workbook, and hopefully there there's enough that we
can mount the kind of you know, campaign that we
need in order to secure our liberation and then many
of those walking days will be lost in the process.
And and that's okay, but our focus has to be

(02:14:35):
on on mounting that uh sort of uh requisite mass
that we need that doesn't really require everybody, So you
don't give up because many of the people that you
encounter are currently lost. We need that critical mass, uh.

(02:15:00):
To gather that critical mass, which once again does not
include everybody. Uh uh, But there's still many recruits out
there that we can gather.

Speaker 1 (02:15:13):
So a ten away from the top of we've got
two anti black groups out there trying to define the
black community and clowns, and we've got class on the
Supreme Court ruined against us. How do we how do
we how do we combat that? Do we just ignore
them like you say, uh? Or we just move on?

Speaker 9 (02:15:33):
And we well, we mount our, We mount our, our
our plan of attay and I sit the last time
on the air, I gave two calls to action, two
immediate calls, one involving raising our children properly and educating
our children properly, and the other being to vote.

Speaker 2 (02:15:56):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (02:15:56):
You have to fortunately win a very fortunate situation, believe
it or not, and that we have a tool to
limit the opposition the voting, and we'll never saw liberate us,
but what it does is limit the opposition. We wouldn't

(02:16:19):
be facing the issues that we're finishing today if Kamala
Harris was in office. Whether you like her or not,
like the fact that she's married to a white person
or not, the fact that's irrelevant when you think like
a general, that's irrelevant. The fact is that that we
would not have to be dealing with these increases in

(02:16:41):
our health there and all of the kinds of economic
stressors that are being levied and increased against started life
to the point where we can't think about liberation. All
we can think about is survived. And that's where they
were on our minds. The oppressors control several things, your body,

(02:17:07):
the bodies of the oppressed, the minds of the or
the attention of the oppressed, and the money of the oppressed.
And we we have a tool was to limit that
kind of of of of attack on us. We just
have to use them. And sometimes it takes being for them,

(02:17:30):
you know, pulling the strings even tighter or the noose
even tighter around our necks for us to wake up
and use that tool. Vote, vote these damn people out
of office. That's one thing you can do immediately and
put people in and there in office who will at

(02:17:51):
least not increase the stress on our lives.

Speaker 1 (02:17:57):
All right, strategically got a tweet question, and tweeter says,
doctor Fox, why do some of us keep trying to
integrate and be inclusive when these folks have shown us
over and over they want us picking cotton or locked
up in jail. And a person goes on to ask
the question, once they've finished with the Hispanics, do you
think they're coming for us?

Speaker 9 (02:18:18):
Well, they've been coming for us. It's just these dumb people, Hispanics,
so called Hispanics.

Speaker 3 (02:18:24):
They're black.

Speaker 9 (02:18:25):
Most of them are black people who come here on
a mission to bleach out all the blackness in their
in their family line by hooking up with white people
and thinking that these white people will help them do that. Uh,
they've gotten a route to where and I bet the

(02:18:46):
next election you'll see that they have awoken to the fact,
awakened to the fact that these people are not their friends,
and hopefully that will be reflected in their votes as well.
But what was the question again, because I says it again, what.

Speaker 1 (02:19:05):
Was it you said that? The question was they come
in for the Hispanics right now? And do you think
they're gonna we're on next on the list.

Speaker 9 (02:19:13):
Well, no, we we have. They've always been coming for
because you have to remember remember that this whole category
of brown people is bogus. Uh. There are only two
categories in America that's white and black, and none of
them neither category has anything to do or has little

(02:19:35):
to do. This has something, uh to do with your pigmentation.
These are political categories to oppress all so called non
white people. And so it doesn't matter whether you're so
called brown or yellow or red, if you're not considered

(02:19:58):
to be white as a political category, you're you're going there.
They are going to target you. And that's what the
things that these so called around Hispanic people try to
deny or ignore, but that they don't. They're self hating.
They don't want to be categorized as black people, which

(02:20:21):
they are being categorized as black people, thinking that they
can escape the economic particularly oppression of these uh white monsters.
But the white monsters had told them, no, no, no,
you're black. You know, you're the end word, just like

(02:20:42):
the other more more richly pigmented people that we appress.
So they're already coming for us, and we fell down.
Whereas the so called Hispanic men voted for Trump. Uh
too many black people, many males, young males didn't vote

(02:21:06):
at all. And it's the same difference. So you use
the tools, the weapons that we are already have available
to us. As I said during my last appearance two
weeks ago on this program. You use the weapons and
they're all listed in my book that we already have

(02:21:27):
available to us. And you will see see a difference
in your circumstances as and using utilizing those weapons will
allow us more time to go through uh this detoxification
process that I outline in my book.

Speaker 1 (02:21:49):
So that's what you do, all right, we'll come up
on a break. So let's say the break because I've
got a bunch of folks want to talk to you.
I got a bunch of tweets questions for your doctor Fox,
and thank you for joining us this morning. Family, Just
join us. Our guest is doctor Jeromy Fox. He's a
clinical psychologist. His book is called Addicted to White, the
Oppressed in League with the Oppressor. I suggest to get
a copy book. You've got a lot of answers and

(02:22:10):
a lot of solutions to the problems that we face
as a people. Eight hundred and four or five, zero,
seventy eight, seventy six of those the magic numbers to
speak to doctor Fox. Take a calls next and Grand
Rising family, thanks for staying with us on this second
day of October twenty twenty five. I guess the doctor
Jeromy Fox and if he's discussing his best selling workbook,
you got to pick up a copy. If you haven't,

(02:22:31):
it's called Addicted to White the oppressed in league with
the oppressor, a shame based alliance. Let's go to brother
Saykup's calling us from Baltimore's online Wine. Grand Rising Brother, say,
coup your question for doctor.

Speaker 15 (02:22:41):
Fox, Yombo, Doctor Fox, who is responsible for the situation
we're in today as a people in this country, the
black middle class or the black lower class.

Speaker 9 (02:22:56):
Thank you so really, as I say in my book,
you cannot analyze the situation that we as black people
are in without accepting the fact that the fact of

(02:23:17):
white supremacy that we have been under, these white supremacists
that we've been under. As neely Fer once said, any
honest analysis of the peoples of the world must begin
with the ideology and practice of white supremacy. Otherwise, uh,

(02:23:42):
every thing thought to be understood about our circumstances or
our interactions with these people will will produce only confusion.
So the finger pointing of each other doesn't help. We

(02:24:02):
are under uh are the condition of our minds, and
our circumstances are the result of us being under the
rule and threat of white oppressors for hundreds of years.
That's really the bottom, the rock bottom cause of our

(02:24:28):
problems now, since they are not willing to do anything
to correct the damage that they've done to us. Unfortunately,
we as severely injured people, have to fly in some
way of mustering some kind of strength to rescue ourselves

(02:24:53):
at this point, and bickering among ourselves doesn't do that.
We to understand that we all, we are all to
some degree are not battling with an addiction to white
to white ideas, to the white world view, to white values,

(02:25:15):
and we ought to be able to find sympathy, empathy
and unity with each other just based on that fact
that we are struggling, all of us with the same problem,
and perhaps if we come together other with that thought

(02:25:35):
in mind, we can help each other overcome.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
But isn't that what he's blaming the victim? Isn't that
part of how that system of racism white supremaciy Right says,
they teach you.

Speaker 9 (02:25:47):
To point fingers at each other. There too, to be
occupied on pointing fingers at each other, so that we
never turn our attention to them, and and we fall,
and we we give each other a lot of cause

(02:26:08):
to be upset with each other. You may live in
a neighborhood where you trying to raise your kids properly,
and your next door neighbor isn't and their children are
creating all kinds of havoc in your neighborhood. Maybe if
and one of their children killed Joki with Jok, it
was a good one and their children was a bad one.

(02:26:31):
But that's all we've been set up in poverty and
and uh, the the white world view that values money
above relationships value number white white value number two in
my book. So that's all a product of us being

(02:26:53):
conditioned to hate ourselves and therefore hate each other.

Speaker 4 (02:26:59):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (02:27:00):
But as I said, if we can come together in
a kind of uh a group, uh self help group
that which I prescribed in this book to talk about
and see how we are originally not each other's enemies,
we do have a common enemy, and it ain't us,

(02:27:21):
it's them. And perhaps we can throw down our arms,
uh that we use against each other, and and and
and fashion a new arm to fight our true enemy, which.

Speaker 1 (02:27:38):
Is but some folks still don't get it. I've got
a tweet asking do we have any proof of common
houses before would have been black? And the person goes on,
we thought Obama's gonna be pro black? Are they missing?

Speaker 9 (02:27:51):
Are not pro They are not thoroughly pro black. And
this is another a lot of a lot of those
people who are obsessed with that kind of question. And
I have found out just had a conversation with somebody
the about that same thing, and he was just determined,

(02:28:11):
and he was saying, how do you know that she
would have done anything for black people? And I said, well,
how do you know that she wouldn't have? But we
do have some indication if you looked at if you
listened to what Trump was saying he would do, which
most of it, all the bad things that he said

(02:28:33):
he would do, he's actually doing none of the good things.
Whereas her agenda directly addressed many of our issues, economic
issues especially as well as other issues. So you don't
know you were willing to give him a chance. Why

(02:28:55):
wouldn't you, Why aren't you willing to give your sister
a chance? And she may not be the blackest person,
uh that you can think, you know, the blacker than
thou syndrome. But our focus is not on uh, the
person necessarily, It's on their agenda. We want a particular

(02:29:21):
agenda that alleviates the pressure on our lives sufficiently to
give us time and space to plot, perhaps quietly and secretly,
our our our our war strategy. In a sense. So

(02:29:41):
as long as the candidate black or white will do that,
that that's whom we should be voting for. And in
this last election there were only two candidates. One promised
to do that and another did not, uh and in

(02:30:02):
fact promised to the exact opposite with his racist self.
So I mean, if you're looking at it strategically and
as a general, it just doesn't make sense to even
quibble about what you think she would or would not
have done. She told you what she would do. She

(02:30:25):
even told you what he would do, and all of
her predictions about him have come true.

Speaker 1 (02:30:33):
You know, I'm glad you addressed that because I've run
into some people with the same even after the election.
They're still saying the same thing. They can't They just
can't come.

Speaker 7 (02:30:41):
They're addicted to one of themselves.

Speaker 9 (02:30:42):
They think they're not, but they are addicted to why
some of them, suspect are even like agents, you know,
provocates or almost like paid by a wider pressers to
show that kind of nonsense into the ether for us

(02:31:03):
to start arguing another thing to divide us, start arguing
with our brothers and sisters about what she would or
would not have done. You did not give her a
chance to prove that. So that kind of hypothetical conversation
is really silly. And after a while, and this brother

(02:31:25):
I was talking to, I told him that and just
cut the conversation short. Clearly, you just want his faith
and white folk not destroying black folk. Who is so
deep that I could not penetrate that. He just he

(02:31:46):
has this little government job, interestingly enough, and I guess
it's not until he loses his government job that he
will wake up. So in the mean time, I don't
have time to waste arguing with him about that. It's
one of these post office people that happened to be

(02:32:10):
the postman that I happened to be talking to, just
really silly.

Speaker 1 (02:32:15):
Yeah, I'm glad your addressed because I ran into a
few and I just sort of okay, I know exactly
how they think. I just move on. So I'm glad
you analyze it because you're a psychoagst. You can tell
philing what what time it is. But I still got
a bunch of folks want.

Speaker 9 (02:32:31):
To until they lose their job. And that's another white
well you know they were looking for, right.

Speaker 1 (02:32:40):
They were looking for any excuse not to vote for her.

Speaker 3 (02:32:42):
That was that was it?

Speaker 1 (02:32:43):
Yeah, any excuse not to support it. Yeah, thank you
and all of you who were there who who didn't
support her because you couldn't support a black woman. You
heard what doctor Fox said, and I know you've got
friends who said that to you too, because there's a
whole group, that anti black group was going around spread
those rumors and and some of you bought into it.
Goes back to doctor think.

Speaker 9 (02:33:06):
Yeah again, we don't you. We have condition not to
think for ourselves. There's a whole class of black who
are susceptible to these kinds of of agent providing tours
among us, you know, as quame tour Race said, uh,

(02:33:28):
and a real kind of of fight against our oppressors.
You again with clearing out uh uh the enemy within
your own head.

Speaker 2 (02:33:40):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (02:33:41):
That's what this book is about. My book is about.
Then you look uh vertically to your fellow black person,
and you clear out the traders among us, and then
you can march on the battlefield and with some confidence

(02:34:01):
that you will be successful in fighting our white oppressor.
But we have to do that initial work first, and
we're always jumping on the battlefield with these white oppressors
and failing because we haven't done that initial work. Clear

(02:34:22):
our own heads out of their white worldview, and clear
the sambos among us and antient miima's among us out
of our ranks.

Speaker 1 (02:34:38):
Hello, doctor Fox is bowling down somebody's alley this morning,
thirteen minutes at the top. They are eight hundred and
four five zero seventy eight seventy six Carls in West
Palm Beach, Florida. Carl, your question for doctor Fox.

Speaker 6 (02:34:54):
Carl.

Speaker 16 (02:34:55):
I wake up every morning like doctor Flox, like a general,
and I'm on the table trying to bring some solutions
to our problem. And when we look at it from
a system detoxification, which were all up under the same
educational experience because of a miracles one system of given education,
and when we look at the higher education, I believe

(02:35:15):
these are some of the greatest help us to keep
us in the position that we're in because once a
person acquire one of these so called three figure folk
figure jobs, then.

Speaker 3 (02:35:24):
They juice a favor.

Speaker 1 (02:35:26):
Can you put in a question for him, because we've
got a bunch of.

Speaker 16 (02:35:29):
I wanted to I wanted to offer suggestions because I
do sell the book by doctor Fox, and I've been
trying to make that book available to different commissioners and
different people that I know that don't possess that kind
of wisdom, but they are representing us. I just wanted
to add to the thought process. I think it's one
of the best teachers aid for our churches, for our

(02:35:51):
pastors and everybody else. And I think it needs salespeople.
Those who read the book and understand the book, then.

Speaker 6 (02:35:57):
You can do something with it.

Speaker 16 (02:35:58):
And lastly, called thought it would come a long time.
We're getting ready to prepare for the day of atonement,
and if all of us that made the players would
look at this book and share this book for the
rest of our family. I think we have a couple
of million of books already into our community because we
need that kind of information. Sincerely, thank you man. That's
my that's my thoughts, Doctor Fox. If I'm an ara,

(02:36:21):
please thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:36:24):
Doctor Fox does not do this to sell a book. Okay,
he's loses money on the book. You've heard his advertising
on this station. He puts his money where his mouth is.
He's not about trying. It's not it's not trying to
sell you a book. He's trying to sell you an idea.

Speaker 9 (02:36:39):
That brother was exactly right, that we had to get
this book widely distributed it among our people worldwide if possible.
Once again, not for my profit, but for our people's

(02:36:59):
uh improvement, so to speak. Because to this day I
have not made one cent off of the book. Go ahead,
all right, that's what.

Speaker 1 (02:37:11):
I'm telling folks. And yet still he goes in his
pocket and writes a check for the book to advertise
on this station. So hey, this is what this is
what doctor Fox is all about. Robertson Kansas City's Online three,
he has a question for your grand rising Robert. Your
question for doctor Fox is Robert there online three. Hello

(02:37:33):
and not hearing Robert Kevin. So let's let's let's hell,
let's take it. Oh there your Oh go ahead.

Speaker 17 (02:37:39):
Robert, Okay, this is just a thought. Uh you know,
Carl and Doctor Fox. When I was coming up in
the seventies and early eighties, most black music was ninety
nine point ninety nine percent about love and relationship. And
the artists that wrote those songs, they wrote the songs
from their heart, the souls. When you listen to our
young people's hip hop music where they're where they're singing

(02:38:00):
about sex, money, violence, material things, and and doing harm
to each other, is all that most of their music
is coming straight from the mind of the of the oppressor.
I guess the question is, how do we how do
we do How do we give our young people this
information that the music that they're putting out is straight

(02:38:20):
from the mind of the oppressor?

Speaker 1 (02:38:23):
Well, here we gets hold up, hold your response there,
Doctor Fox. We're gonna take a short break and we
come back. I'll let you respond to Roberts's question. Out
of Kansas City, Family, you two can join us. It's
it's a guest show with our guests. Dr Jeromy Fox
is addicted to White the Oppressed, in League with the Oppressor.
That's the title of the book. A shame based alliance.
That's a part of the title. I love a shame
based alliance and you can pick it up. He'll tell
you how to get coffies. Before he leaves, we've got

(02:38:45):
to take a short break. We come back. We'll take
more of a phone calls right here next and grund
Rising family facts are staying with us on this Thursday
morning here with our guests that doctor Fox and the
doctor Fox is a clinical psychologist dot Fox. The last
question from Kansas City, Robert wanted to know about the
entertainment and so because we don't control the entertainment industry and.

Speaker 9 (02:39:05):
That's part of the problem. Yeah, as once again I
talk about the rap uh music and my book. So
if he if he doesn't have it, I hope he
gets it because I have a little paragraph on rap music.

(02:39:28):
I have a list of thoughts for the day that
should be used during these meetings that I have prescribed.
And I forget which number. Yeah, it's thought number thirty.
The misogynists lyrics and black rap calling our sisters the

(02:39:50):
B word, but they would never call Missy Anne the
white you know, the woman of the same. So I
would say here again, this is the a role that
the parents of of the of our children should should

(02:40:14):
be taking. All parents should monitor what goes in to
their children's brains. Our brains are not garbage cans, and
we just put all kinds of nonsense in our loud
all kinds of nonsense to be dumped in. But a

(02:40:38):
responsible parent is responsible for monitoring our children's brains. Now
we know that we have to account for peer influence.
What you might do is, you know, any parent could
sponsor a house party for their kids who are into

(02:41:03):
this kind of rap music and and and during that
party and quotes point out what is destructive to their relationships. Uh,
let's say two black women that these lyrics you want
to call the B word. Also, you could mix during

(02:41:26):
that same party. You know the old school loves songs
that that that he mentioned and introduced them to. Many
of these young people. When they're introduced to the old
school songs, they like them. It's just that they never
heard them. So you can use that party to introduce

(02:41:48):
them to a new kind of music which is really
old as well as you can introduce all kinds of music,
including gospel or jazz that you may be into. Certainly,
gossip has a far more inspiring message. And you don't
have to necessarily be all that religious to appreciate, uh,

(02:42:15):
the message in the music in gospel music. So you
can take control or at least attempt to take control
over your children are are feeding on musically by getting
in there and introducing them to a different type of

(02:42:41):
music as well as well as as well as rather
helping them to analyze the music that they are into better.

Speaker 1 (02:42:54):
Well, let me ask you this, Doctor Fox a twenty
five after Professor Griff was with us yesterday and he said,
there's a to white Professor Griff from Public Enemy, and
he was saying that there was there's two white rappers
who was rapping about lynching, about how great lynching is,
and he says, if you close your eyes, you're thing.
They were black, and this is the kind of music

(02:43:15):
they want our children to adopt and start singing and
helping their own demise. How do we combat stuff like that?

Speaker 9 (02:43:23):
You take control of the musicians, Just as I said,
if you know that your children are listening to rap music,
and even more specifically that particular song, you sit them
down and you talk about it and why it's destructive
to their brains and to any perspective relationships they would

(02:43:48):
have with other black people. That's anti black ranting does
nothing more than make them hate themselves, even trasts more
than what they already do. So you control, and if
you're not the kind to parent that is inclined to

(02:44:11):
do that, then maybe you shouldn't have the kids in
the first damn place.

Speaker 3 (02:44:15):
Gotcha?

Speaker 1 (02:44:15):
I keep going back that twenty six. Theodore is checking
in from Washington, DC's online for Grand Rising. Theodore, your
question for doctor Fox, Grand.

Speaker 14 (02:44:25):
Rising, Gentleman, doctor Fox, I'm going to get your book.
I haven't got it yet, but I'm going to get
your book. And I appreciate what you're saying. That springs
me on to think better and do better as a person.
First of all, I answer one of your question of doctor.
She wouldn't have fired hundreds of thousands of workers.

Speaker 5 (02:44:44):
That's right.

Speaker 6 (02:44:45):
Would She would not?

Speaker 14 (02:44:47):
And this is a little deep. She would not have
put in charge of the medical the medical agencies a man.
And and and basically the deep part I'm talking about
is this, they want to get rid the excess population.
We're useless, they say, we're taking their money. So they
do this, and they want they will kill people will

(02:45:08):
die from their medical while from their medical messing with uh,
putting JFK in it because he has no no, no knowledge.
And the thing about it. There's another book you might
want to look at also. I haven't gotten this yet.
It's called It's called It's a it's a book written
by the guy I'm not sure I haven't name written,

(02:45:29):
but it's a book about how the Christian white Christian
right supports a man it's got to be he's not
a Christian.

Speaker 9 (02:45:40):
Well, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 5 (02:45:41):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (02:45:41):
See there again we have to exercise our own agency.
Are you here? Even these black newscasters and puntinents just
repeat the language of the Associated Press. These people are
not Christians, these crackers, these hate filled crackers. Even though

(02:46:06):
they call themselves elist evangelists, they're not. And you, as
a journalist, they are to be able to say that
very confidently if they've read the scripture. So even calling
them Christian is just reinforcing the idea that they have

(02:46:29):
really something good to say, and they don't. So I
agree with that they're not. Uh, these newscasters and certainly
black pundits need to stop calling them, you know, white
rite or whatever evangelists. Or Christians. You can simply say,

(02:46:49):
since it is the job of the journalists to state
the facts and the truth, you have no obligation to
give liars and hypocrites a platform. You don't. You just
state that these are white people who call themselves Christian.

(02:47:11):
Just add that little bit that call themselves, uh, implying
that you know, if you read a scripture for yourself,
you will see that they uh as, they couldn't be
further away uh from the Christian doctrine. But go ahead, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (02:47:32):
Think we're lost here. But let me question here with Theodore.
I should ask us, should have asked, uh, what do
we do?

Speaker 3 (02:47:37):
Doc?

Speaker 1 (02:47:38):
Has he mentioned that, you know, they say they're taking
their country back and some black folks in flux. Should
we stay and fight them because we build this country,
we're part of the fabric. We shed blood. Or should
we go to Ghana? Should we move or should we
just try to, you know, get along to get along?

Speaker 7 (02:47:55):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (02:47:56):
What's response the latter?

Speaker 9 (02:47:58):
We should never do, uh, go along to get along.
That's what we're doing now and see how well that
has worked out for us. It's really a matter of choice. Uh.
The fact of the matter is is that this Western white,
wicked value system order has infected and contaminated the entire world.

(02:48:26):
So you're not gonna gonna find too much more libed
liberty to too many any more liberated minds in Ghana
or any place else in Africa. They are as addicted
to white as we are over here. And now, given
the fact that we put so much, as you say,

(02:48:47):
of our sweat and blood into this, all we need
to do is to claim it. You don't necessarily have
to move, but if we clear our mind, we would
see the path uh way forward to claiming our right

(02:49:08):
for uh place in this land, uh, which is more
than than what we we have currently given the contributions
that we've made to building this land. So all we
need to do, no matter where we're at, London, Ghana, America, UH,

(02:49:33):
rather than the United Snakes of America. Wherever we find ourselves,
we need to throw down our bucket where we're at
and again this process of of of detoxifying our minds.
And once we do that, we will see very clearly

(02:49:55):
the path toward our own liberation and freedom no matter
matter where we're we're at in the world.

Speaker 1 (02:50:07):
Got you twenty eight away from the top of Vway,
Doctor Jeremy Fox, Larry's call us from DC's on line one,
Grand Raging and Larry a question for doctor Fox.

Speaker 12 (02:50:17):
Grand rising to both of you, brothers. My question is,
first of all, I want to say happy belated birthday
to Donnie Hathaway yesterday.

Speaker 6 (02:50:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:50:28):
I loved him, We really loved him. His voice was magical.
Go ahead, my favorite artist.

Speaker 12 (02:50:37):
Speaking speaking of the music with the youngest, do you
really are you saying there's speaking from their microscope, of
their looking glass, of what they see. And I want
you to speak on assadiscorp. That's first question I have

(02:50:58):
livele in not a minute, and then could you break
down for this audience how words have been turned into
cliches like by any means necessary, police state, martial law,
the system of white supremacy, and number one fascism And

(02:51:20):
I'd like for you to just deal with fascism because
the definition has changed from the nineteen seventy dictionary to now.
So could you break down that word fascism? That is
not no damn cliche word. It's a function and it
need to be taken very seriously of the time. When

(02:51:43):
that's all I have.

Speaker 9 (02:51:45):
Well, that was a lot, I'll begin with the word
of fascism.

Speaker 7 (02:51:54):
Let me just for one second, all right, twenty six
away from the top to.

Speaker 9 (02:52:02):
Grab something the I for forgot all that you had
several issues there. But if you want to begin with fascism,
I can do that. I'm just trying to get something

(02:52:27):
that I can. Let's see, okay, the and this is
the definition that I think most people are are using.

(02:52:48):
Fascism and afar authoritarian and nationalistic right wing system of
government and social organization. My problem with oh right, you
mentioned about throwing around all these terms here again, I

(02:53:09):
think that's a good point, and that we're not using
our own power and agency to define terms for ourselves.
It's like, if you have my book I Redefine power.
Power is something that is intra psychic. It's not interpersonal.

(02:53:30):
You have the power to submit to a fascist, but
you also have the power not to submit. Now the consequences,
there are consequences involved in both. But you may have
to die because you don't submit, but you'll die spiritually

(02:53:53):
if you do submit. But you have to think that
through for yourself. The question isn't for us. To my mind,
at least, this isn't so much fascism as I just
defined it from the Western dictionary or red from the

(02:54:13):
Western Dictionary. It's what we have always lived under, a
fascist regime in this land. That's why a lot of
the stuff that's going on we're not our right hold on.

Speaker 1 (02:54:31):
There, right that dog. We gotta step aside for our
last break. I'll let you continue to explain to us
about fascist and when we get back, it's twenty three
minutes away from the top. They have family. I guess
it's doctor Jeromy Fox. He's the author of the best
selling workbook Addicted to White, The Old Pressed in league
with the Oppressor, a shame based alliance. We'll take your
phone calls for him next and grant rising family. Thanks
for staying with us on this Thursday morning here or

(02:54:52):
the second day of October twenty twenty five. I guesked
doctor Jeromy Fox. Before we go back to doctor Foster,
remind you tomorrow's a Friday, of course, and we're give
you another chance to free your mind and all that
means we'll be talking about all morning. Think for yourself.
Reach out to us our open for on Friday program
game promptly at six am Eastern time right here in
Baltimore on ten ten WLB and also in the DMV

(02:55:13):
on FM ninety five point nine and AM fourteen fifty WL.
And again, please don't wait to the last minute. There's
always a bunch of folks who can't get on. We'd
love to hear from you one, find out what's going
on in your neighborhood, what's going on in your thoughts?
Are some of the critiques you had some of the
guests that we had this week. Yeah, so make sure
you call us tomorrow morning, start at six am Eastern time.
All right, doctor Fox. The question, the last question about fascism.

Speaker 9 (02:55:35):
Yeah, let me just say that it's a term that
I guess was first used to describe Mussolini in Italy
and then.

Speaker 15 (02:55:56):
As a.

Speaker 9 (02:55:58):
Description of his Nazi friends in Germany. But typically fascism
includes a belief in the supremacy of one uh national
or ethnic group, and a contempt for democracy and and

(02:56:23):
and and a insistence insistence on obedience to a powerful leader.
And if you listen to that description, when have black
people not been under that kind of system in this land?

(02:56:46):
That's why I mentioned sister of Shakur, That's why she
fled to Cuba under a fascist regime, a regime here
in the United Snakes of America. That's why I when
I hear white folk, uh, you know, panicking with this

(02:57:09):
current uh fascistic idiot in the White House, I kind
of laughed because perhaps this is their first time being
denied uh certain privileges, uh, when we we have never
uh uh experienced the full benefits of the so called

(02:57:34):
democracy of this land. So you know, I don't know
if that kind of approach is answering his question, but uh,
my perspective and what I feel our perspective as a
as a as an oppressed group of people or should be,
is that fascism is nothing new uh here. Again we

(02:57:58):
allow a white media uh to tell us that we
should all of a sudden be extremely concerned about fascism.
We've been concerned about that sense our captivity and fighting
against it. It's just it's new for white folk in
this land, but not for us. That's why I think

(02:58:23):
we ought to be more level headed and our approach
to this current uh regime, because we should should have
more experience and dealing with a with a person like Trump.
But you know, only I guess time will tell you.

Speaker 5 (02:58:45):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (02:58:46):
But we know how to fight back in a under
a fascist regime, regis regime, because we've been fighting fascism
once again again, ever since we were dragged from our
mother contentent over to these shores.

Speaker 1 (02:59:11):
All right, fifteen away from the top. Day, I got
a tweet question from Louisiana Tweeter says that we just
love doctor Fox down here in Louisiana. Ask him about
the recent speech by Pete Hegseth, And given the feelings
of the Maga movement to remove blacks from history and
even from the military, why isn't there a big outcry
over the insult that these black military men who were
sitting in the audience had to take from Trump and Hexath.

(02:59:34):
And let me just add to one of the things
they said that no more beards. You know, some of
the brothers who have super curly hair, so some of
that's where they have beards and they're you know, they're
given okay to have beards. That's what you see a
lot of people now, a lot of men wearing beards.
But so some of us brothers did because we was
super curly.

Speaker 9 (02:59:52):
One person pointed out that the Mada people whose hero
the Confederate General Lee had a beard, so and President
Ulysses uh Grant had a beard, so all of that, Uh,

(03:00:12):
it's just his own insecurity. He's uh, he's probably one
of these white punks, uh when he was just young,
feeling very inferior to his black uh associates. Uh, So
that was nonsense. I was only hoping that those black
faces in the audience where their loyalty really lies and

(03:00:39):
which is with black people, and would we would not
co operate with any attempt on the part of of
of of hex Seth or or or Trump Trump to
destroy us. We can only hope and in fact I said,
uh in my last appearances that we should be encouraging

(03:01:03):
our children to join the armed for armed forces. I
would have never thought that in the past, just to
be in the position, almost as spies, to be in
the position to stop any attempt to further destroy black
people people militarily. So we can only hope that they

(03:01:28):
would do that. Other than that, I mean, and we
need to be I'm glad you mentioned that because all
of this gathering of the truths I believe is in
preparation for making that kind of move. So we need
to be very prepared to defend ourselves.

Speaker 1 (03:01:50):
Let me just put it that way and leave it there,
twelve away from the top, facent looking at the time,
you say there are five core wide values, and many
of us are addicted to Can you also have been
for us? Real quickly?

Speaker 7 (03:02:01):
Dot?

Speaker 9 (03:02:02):
Yes, Those five five white values can be found on
page nine, I believe. Let me turn to it in
my book or page eleven, I think maybe yeah, Page
eleven beginning with white value number one, which brief briefly

(03:02:23):
states that everything black basically is bad, that everything white
is good. Unfortunately, our minds have been corrupted with that value.
Uh uh. That's why you have the ojas and other
people choosing seeing white female else over their own people.

(03:02:47):
But any rate, white value number two, things are more
important than relationships, and certainly money and the things that
money can buy is far more important than relationships. And
of course all these white uh presasors uh subscribe to

(03:03:09):
that value, and we have adopted it as well. White
value number three. White oppressors are trustworthy recorders and interpreters
of history and reality. We've been talking about that all morning.
Don't don't allow the white monsters to think for you.

(03:03:32):
White value number four. Individualism is better than collectivists, and
so it's all about me, me, me me. These people
who against the candidacy of Kamala Harris, they won't see
the need for someone like that until their job is

(03:03:55):
taken away. Right now is the brother men and three
hundred over three hundred and nineteen thousands and black women
and have lost their job from February to our believed
July of this year under this president, over three hundred

(03:04:16):
and nineteen thousand Black women, and that has ripple effects.
Many of them perhaps be in the primary on bread
winter for their household. They can no longer afford to
send their kids to perhaps a private school or whatever,

(03:04:36):
and many other things. We would not be dealing with
that right now, losing our health care any but me,
me me until I feel it personally, I'm not interested
in in other black people unfortunately, or other people period

(03:04:58):
because a white street ball also or suffer from that
same syndrome. Me me me narcissism in other words, and
then to find a white value number five, Uh, the
best way I can feel good about myself by surpassing
outdoing and defeating someone else in an activity, achievement or

(03:05:23):
personal characteristic hes sect suffers from that and unfortunately so
do we, which prevents us from cooperating and with each
other and univer find around this issue of securing our liberation.

Speaker 1 (03:05:44):
Yeah, we're always in competition with each other.

Speaker 9 (03:05:46):
That's always a competition, including the so called black activists.
It becomes a competition of who who is blacker than? Now,
you know, we're always looking to distinguish ourselves, which is
related to a white value number four. It's always about me, me, me.

(03:06:10):
In fact, all these values are interconnected white values. I
got to stand out from among the crowd, right.

Speaker 1 (03:06:24):
I guess the A D answer then will be black unity.

Speaker 9 (03:06:27):
That's right. And that's why I just said that this value,
this last one, prevents black unity because if I'm only
interested in competing with you, I'll never see the value
of joining forces, cooperating, unifying with you.

Speaker 3 (03:06:46):
Gotcha?

Speaker 1 (03:06:47):
Eight zero eight?

Speaker 9 (03:06:50):
You and envy prevents cooperation?

Speaker 1 (03:06:55):
Gotcha? Do s just the prairies online? Five con from Baltimore.
It's just a prairie. You have a question for the
doctor Fox? Can't make it quick for us?

Speaker 18 (03:07:02):
Yes, good morning doctor Fox. Mister Nelson, I'm not sure
if you know that. Did you know that Mary Trump
and one of President Trump's nephews David Trump Junior have
never gone along with his antiques interviews, and some of
his family does not for him. His niece has a
book out and his nephew was on the view last year.
Do you think it if people knew about them and

(03:07:25):
world where they wouldn't have worn it for Harris?

Speaker 3 (03:07:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (03:07:33):
Trump and the Maga folk are very much We're very
loud and clear about what they planned to do. Uh
if they ever got into office again and all all

(03:07:54):
of us were able to hear them, and still some
of us decided to either vote for them. Unfortunately a
few of us and but too many of us decided
to stay home. So I don't know if anything would

(03:08:16):
have gotten us to do to vote for Harris. Hopefully
many of us now have our experience and exactly what
Trump said he would do to us, and maybe will vote.

Speaker 3 (03:08:33):
This wrap.

Speaker 9 (03:08:37):
In twenty six November twenty six next year to at
least convert the Congress to Democrats who can oppose him.
Hopefully we've learned our lesson.

Speaker 1 (03:08:51):
I don't know, we'll find out, but doctor Fosh four
will let you go. How ca we ge accomplished of
your book okay.

Speaker 9 (03:09:00):
In Baltimore, you can get the book at the African
World Bookstore on twenty twenty second and seventeen two two
seventeen Pennsylvania Avenue. Otherwise, you and contact your local Black

(03:09:20):
bookstore or any bookstore and they can order it for you,
or you can go to Amazon dot com and.

Speaker 7 (03:09:28):
Buy it directly and title one more time.

Speaker 9 (03:09:32):
The title is addicted to White the Oppressed in League
with the Oppressor, A shame based Alliance by doctor jerome
E Fox.

Speaker 1 (03:09:42):
All Right, the Tyler book in the part I like
that title, a shame based alliance. Wake up, family, Thank
you doctor Fox, Thank you Mischaniel thoughts for us this morning?

Speaker 9 (03:09:51):
All right, thank you?

Speaker 1 (03:09:53):
All right, family, Classes dismissed for the day. Stay strong,
stay positive, please please stay healthy. We'll see you tomorrow morning.
Clock right here in Baltimore on ten ten WLB and
also in the DMV on FM ninety five point nine
and AM fourteen fifty WOL

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