Professor James Small Explores Pan-Africanism and Spirituality in an Exclusive Classroom Session

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nelson Shall the most awesome, miss.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Grand Rising family, thanks for making us part of your
morning richeal. Later, another one of our top scholars, Professor
James Small, will join us. Professor Small report on his
riching trip to Chemick also discussed pan Afghanism and spirituality.
But before Professor Small, the Nubian leadership circles Brother Sidiki
Combone'll check in a moment, Charlie, doctor ka Kai Patterson,
Leader Panell the presentation on Black August. But let's get

(00:50):
Kevin opened the classroom door for us this morning again,
Grand Rising, Kevin.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Grand Rising, Nelson Grand Rising.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
Indeed, it is a wonderful Thursday morning, the seventh of August.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
How you feeling I'm still learning? Kevin?

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Well, that is good.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
You know you're open to growth when you're learning, as
long as you take action on learning. So, like doctor
Wayne Dyers said, you know, be open to everything and
attached to nothing so that you're not attached to old ideologies.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
You're learning brand new things. You see what I did?

Speaker 5 (01:25):
Then you like you?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Like that? I'm telling you every every every morning saying,
really you know that Nearly Fuller is just probably one
of my students. He's probably telling Doctor Elsey nudging Dr Wilson,
see you get me lack for one of my students.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's the Nelson Show University. That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
You know, you don't graduate, you just matriculated. Yeah, man, hey,
I wanted to ask you about the NFL has banned
smelling salts, and you know they say that they will
no longer be able to use smelling salts to get
a quick joke of alertness on the field. Uh, the

(02:08):
league side of the warning from the FDA released last
year didn't Trump shut down the FDA. But anyway, they're
often marketed to increase alertness and energy, have have not
been proven to be safe or effective.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
What do you think of that? Did it ever look safe?

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Right? It depends on what's in the smelling salts, too,
because that's that's another issue. You know, a lot of
these many now say a lot, but I keep using
that that phrase too much is overworked. But some of
our athletes, professional athletes, you know, later on in life,
they come down with all kinds of problems, you know,
and it was misbelieved they were given, you know, not
not necessarily steroids, some were given steroids, but someone giving

(02:48):
all kinds of drugs just to keep them performing, just
keep them at a level of performance. And we never
know what's in those smelling smelling salts, which is my Well.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
According to this smelling salts are made of ammonium carbonate.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Right, that's why it's supposed to be made off right,
And when it's.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
Dry, the substance looks like table salt. And it was
initially called the salt of hearts, heard huh, named.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
For that's the original And that's the question came. We
don't know because a lot of these uh, these pharmaceutical doctors,
on these professional athletes, professional teacher, we don't know what
they'll put in there. Well, what I mean, some of
the players don't even really care, you know, just pass
me up and let me get back in. Give me
a shot and I can get back in the game.
And the years after they have all kinds of complaints.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Oh okay, Well, it says when in hell, the ammonia
becomes a gas and it activates the receptors in the nose,
which lead to a cascade of reactions that cause an
increase in respiratory rate, so rebal blood flow and heart rate.
That just can't be good. Can it just doesn't seem

(03:54):
like that could be good. And one last thing though,
The Washington Post reports that the Trump administration is going
to reconsider the u c l A. They're gonna talk
with UCLA about the fifty eight million dollars and frozen funds.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
This guy's all against education, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
It seems Oh yeah, he's totally against. But you know
what the key thing that's happening today, Kevin in the news,
he said, the tariffs take effect. And you know, yesterday
we had we had were talking to Brandon and after
the program, I had a conversation with Brandon. He was
telling me about he's a coffee drinker and he goes
to the story bought some coffee. He was like, he
was freaking out because usually it's seven dollars and change.

(04:38):
He was almost twenty dollars this trip. And he said,
the tars haven't even started. But you know the thing is,
do we grow coffee here or is it alls? He
come from Brazil and overseas, but the prices.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
Away one days, right, But twenty dollars for coffee, yeah,
well it.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Doesn't cost that much in the supermarket.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I mean, well, that's even though the bunch of supermarket even.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
Though the price is going up. He went to the
supermarket and bought twenty dollars coffee.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, he said, put his hand on it, and then
they had to take it off because he thought it
was a mistake. He thought it was misplaced when he
saw the price.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Why wow, And oddly enough, that sounds like it must
be a good coffee.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
The boulders, he told me Bolgers. Yes, oh man, Well yeah,
but you know what, And I say that to say
this because the terrifts take effect today and some countries
that they've got fifty percent up. So we're gonna and
just family, all you're waking up your reallys this morning.
Just you know, heads up here, you're gonna be paying
more for stuff starting today. You canna be. You know

(05:44):
all these stores that they're adding prices, they're updating their prices.
They did that last night. So when you go on
the store this weekend, whatever you're buying is gonna cost
you a little bit more.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
And the sad part about the tariffs is part of
it is just a punishment employed when the president threatens
one hundre present tariffs on things like computer chips, and
I guess in this case coffee one hundreds of billions
of dollars of trade. We'll see new taxes go up
by thirty nine percent. Economies say so, uh yeah, prepare yourself. Yeah,

(06:16):
get that use that Folger's can to save those nickels. Hey, well, thanks,
We've got a panel of people waiting for you, including
doctor Patterson, So I'll step out of the way and
wish you a very pleasant day.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Thanks, Kevin. All right, grand rising doctor Patterson.

Speaker 6 (06:35):
Grand rising, my brother Kuac into the wl family piece
and blessings.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Doctor ka Kaie Passing is an activist in Washington, d C.
The DMV area is also acupuncturist. Before we bring on
the folks that you've got with you this morning, can
you just say, you know, for some of the folks
that don't know what black August is, can you explain
for black August is?

Speaker 6 (06:59):
Yeah? You know, you know back in the seventies, you know,
there were so many different things that were going on
with George Jackson, Marcus Garvey's birthday, you know, of course,
with Tulu Shakor, which we'll be celebrating this Friday, which
is what we want to talk about today. But people
have gotten away from celebrating the true revolutionary spirit of

(07:23):
this month, and they just using it like as a
Black history piece. But these are some of the bloodiest days,
some of the most heroic days that took place within
our community as it relates to us gaining our freedom
and our independence from this racist system that we're living in.

(07:45):
So here we have an opportunity to make the community
aware of not just the civil rights movement, you know,
when we were marching and sitting on buses, et cetera,
but making people aware of those individuals going all the
way back through history. Like I said, going back to
Marcus Garvey for at Hampton, I mean, we can call

(08:05):
out all of these different things and different folks who
have been participating in this month and have contributed things
that should motivate us to keep us going. And this
is the true meaning of Black August. You know that
this is an opportunity for people to see the importance

(08:25):
of as we've talked through the years, called the commitment
that's necessary. And here are people who've laid their lives down,
who have given up the comfortability of working a job,
you know, eight hours a day, but it dedicated their
lives to you know, bringing about the awareness in our

(08:47):
community that we are at war, that our communities have
been under attack every since our European families have came
over to Africa and brought us over. So Black August
gives us an opportunity to highlight individuals, uh and incidents
and different things that have taken place over the years

(09:10):
that contribute to our liberation and as well as the
fact that we've lost you know a lot of our
revolutionary brothers and sisters, you know who participated in these struggles,
who dedicated their lives fearlessly and understood the costs that
they may have to pay by standing up for black
people's rights.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, you know, you know, well, I shouldn't be surprised
about it. That doctor panis is the fact that so
many people don't know, don't know our history. What you
just said. This is a whole swathe of folks who
probably listening never You know, they know the names Fred Hampton,
Marcus Garni and doctor King Mountain. They know the names,
but they don't know what they did. They know the details,
they know they all they know when they died, you know,

(09:51):
when they get I.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Don't know what they went through with you.

Speaker 6 (09:54):
Yeah, I totally agree with you call that a game.
As you know, I work with young people. We've going
to some of the youth jails and stuff. When we
talk to these young men and women, and we mentioned
names like Malcolm X. Even they have no detailed insight
as to Malcolm X is Marcus Garvey. They don't have
an idea of the connection between Marcus and Malcolm and

(10:17):
Martin and all of these things. So you agree with you,
and that too has been by design. I'm seventy three
years old. I begin to politicize myself in nineteen seventy
when I read Malcolm X's books. And over the years,
we've always had to fight to get black history, African history,
or any kind of cultural initiative in our schools, you know,

(10:40):
and that we were kept from doing that, and we
still fight today where you have HBCUs or black colleges
that don't have a black history program and they were
told that they couldn't do it for whatever the reason.
So systemically, you know, all of the oppression that's been
taking place is actually very very reflective in our educational system.

(11:04):
I talked to some of these young guys fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen years old, who cannot write their name, they cannot
do cursor. And when they write their name. You know,
when we were in kindergarten, we learned how to print.
Some of our lives would be big, some of them
be small, some of them be leaning crookedly or whatever.
This is how these young men and women are signing

(11:25):
their names to paper. So they've done an excellent job
in terms of systemically, you know, a game producing the
negroes or producing those individuals that they want to just
fit right into this Society's a puzzle.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Thirteen after top family, just joining us, just waking up
Doctor Kaye. Patterson's I guess he's got a pale folks
with them as well right now and discussing black orgers
and the ignorance, some of the ignorance in our community.
You know, some people just just don't know. We just
have to take them along slowly before you bring you
on your palelo. Do you think it's a generational thing,
Doctor Patterson?

Speaker 6 (12:02):
Absolutely, in the game systemically. So you know, here we
have young people who cannot even listen to doctor Patterson
or any other of the elders or brothers who set
examples in the community and go back into the community
and attempt to talk with our young people. I just
left Philadelphia, same exact issues are going on. A month

(12:23):
ago I was in Detroit. The same exact issues are
still going on. Police brutality, young people being murdered in
the street, self destruction, they're shooting one another, et cetera,
et cetera. When I was coming up, if you had
a gun, we thought you were out of your mind.
This is packed in nineteen late sixties and seventies. I
even had a nickname because we found a little pistol

(12:46):
and it was a twenty two but it didn't work
and I found and I carried with me, and they
used to call me pistol peaked, you know. But I
never shot anybody with the gun or nothing like that.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
You know.

Speaker 6 (12:55):
It was just, you know, something that we were excited about.
But now you have young people with guns. The guns
are bigger than they are and they just brazenly walked
through the community. About three weeks ago, we lost a
three year old kid that was shot, and the day
that we were burying that three year old kid, a
one year old kid got shot and her arm had

(13:18):
to be amputated. These are the kinds of conditions that
are going on in DC, Philadelphia, Detroit, Houston, New York, Baltimore,
you name it, wherever there's a black population, these are
the kinds of things that are going on. So generation
gap for sure in.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
The game, that's important. What you just said, man, that's
and you're absolutely right, you're correct. But why do you
think is happening? What is happening? You know ask you
question said, is because our young people don't know who
they are, so they always just know thyself and what
do you think it is?

Speaker 6 (13:51):
I would totally agree with that, And as I stated earlier,
systemically they've made sure that we didn't know that. They've
gone out of their way as it relates to the
media that's printed, media, radio, TV to present certain images
about black families where there is no discipline. But I

(14:12):
think one of the major things that influenced that moral
breakdown was the cracked cocaine era. I was around in
the late sixties. I was addicted to drugs myself. I
got addicted to the methadone. This is at fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen years of age, and heron and alcohol and weed
and cigarettes was the thing. Well that never left us.

(14:34):
But over the decades. You know, we go into PCP,
then we went into crack cocaine, and that's where the
morality was really broken down. And I've worked in the
drug fields since nineteen seventy and still do it today.

Speaker 7 (14:48):
As you very well know.

Speaker 6 (14:49):
But right at that point, right there, you had young
drug dealers who were fifteen sixteen seven and their cut
buddies who were fifteen and sixteen seven years old, may
have been in the alley performing some kind of act
with their partner's mother, you know. So these are the
kinds of things that we saw taking place during that

(15:11):
era that was not taking place, you know, during the
time that people was using heron in the sixties and
seventies as well as with the PCP. But the morality
was really really broken down as it relates to that
crack cocaine. But yes, it's generational and the reason it
has to do with a game us not knowing ourselves.
We know we can go all the way back to

(15:33):
Willie Lynch, we can go all the way back to
them denying us our name. We watch roots and Kunta
Kina said, my name Cochin. Until they've broke them. He said,
my name is Toby. We can look at the movie
San Kofo, which is another great film that people should
walk watch where a game. They're always talking about the
fact that they're taking from us our culture and within

(15:56):
our culture. We had a way that we thought in
our culture, and we had a way that we believed
in our culture. There were principles as it relates to
our interaction and how we dealt with each other. But
more so, your culture also dealt with responsibility, you know,
being able to hold Let's.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
All right there, we'll hold on responsible. We got to
step aside for a few months. We'll come back. I'll
let you finish your thought. I introduced this to the
panel seventeen minutes after the top, they have family just
waking up. I guess here's doctor Kai Patterson. He's an
activist in Washington, d C. Well, you want to join
this conversation with us, reach out to us at eight
hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six when
we'll take your phone calls next and grand riizing family.

(16:51):
I thinks of waking up with us at twenty minutes
after the top of there on this Thursday, money with
our guess, doctor Kakaie Patterson Dtor Patterson' let to introduce
your guests. We have Walter Sky with us.

Speaker 6 (17:02):
Uh huh, Walter bout day. Yes, you know, you know,
Walter is my big brother. Uh and you know was
right with Matusia Core uh in the initiation of the
Lincoln Detox program.

Speaker 8 (17:18):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (17:19):
You know again when you talk about generation gaps, I
just make this point and I turned it over to
my big brother. One of the things that we were
involved in was unity. Uh So in the sixties, you know,
we worked with the black and brown and yellow communities.
It was actually a Japanese revolutioner who showed doctor Matuasha
cour the acupuncture process, you know. But one of the

(17:42):
things that we did was we worked together in our community.
So they did a great job in splitting that up
in the brown community and the yellow community, and the
black community is having major major issues amongst themselves as
a result of that same work. But let me bring
in the thought.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Right there, and before you bring in Walter, why can't
why can't we do that? Now? What's the problem with
us do and having that unity? Now?

Speaker 6 (18:06):
A doctor Yeah, and that's the easy answer for me
to say. Once again, they have systemically set up situations
where that could not happen. That's the easy answer. But
we know that people have lost their lives trying to
stand up for what's right. So the fear that's been
induced in our community to step up and stand for

(18:28):
ourselves is very very deeply embedded in the psyche of
our community as well as our leadership, as well as
the parents who don't want anything to happen, you know,
to their children. So it's important for people who really
understand that it's a system that's been sent up to
prevent that from happening.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, yeah, I just had to question that because you're
absolutely right. But go ahead and bringing Walter for us.

Speaker 6 (18:55):
Yeah, that's it's a toughie, you know. Like I said,
everywhere I go, people are like, what do we do?
I mean, people are actually throwing their hands up. I'm
talking about some serious organizers are doing that. But again,
a luta continuur. We have to continue. So let me
introduce Seafood Walter by Scai, my big brother who was

(19:16):
with Matulu initially as they started that program, and he
can share with you that history as well as how
we actually developed that five point protocol that's now being
used around the world that people attributed to someone else
but Matulusha Kor along with Walter and other folk within

(19:36):
the Young Lord's Party, the Black Plants Party, Republican Africa.
You know, we're involved in that process. My big brother Walter,
how you feel brouh.

Speaker 9 (19:45):
Okay man, good morning to all, Good morning, explore my
brother Okay. So the first thing I want to tell people,
if you go to YouTube and you go to Dope
as Death and that's documentary film. Actually it was the
second film on the Lincoln Detox program, you'll see Matulu

(20:05):
and what we started back in nineteen seventy. So in
nineteen seventies, the Young Lords, with the help of the
Black Panthers and I was in the Young Lords, took
over the nurse's residence of Lincoln Hospital. It was the
second takeover. Six months prior we had taken over to
the hospital for patience rights. So in nineteen seventy we

(20:27):
fought for a detox program. In the seventies, in New
York City or New York State, there were over one
hundred thousand people addicted to heroin. And as a member
of the Young Lords and as friends with the Black
Panthers and the Republic of New Africa, the Ahrum, the

(20:48):
white radicals, the white doctors. We decided that we wanted
a detox program to get people off a heroin. And
on top of that, we had a situation with Metadon
because the Metadon programs that were created in the sixties,
basically we're keeping people on metadon for the rest of
their lives. And it wasn't a solution to heroin addiction.

(21:12):
It was an added addiction. So we wanted them off,
so we started a detox program. We started using mentadon
on a ten day detox so we would get people
to come into the program. When you see the film,
you'll see how many hundreds of people came to our
program and we helped them detox. At the time, I

(21:36):
was in nursing school and my friend McK and Melandez,
who was one of the co founders of the Young Lords,
invited me for the summary said you got summer break,
come on down and volunteer. We need some medical personnel.
So since I was in nursing school, I went and volunteered,
and the summer was over, I went back to school

(21:56):
and decided when I went back to school that I
didn't want to be a nurse that I wanted to
be a member of the Young Lords and I wanted
to be part of the revolution. So that's what we did.
In nineteen seventy two, Matulu came on. We hired Matulu
and Matula and I started kicking it, and we decided
that we needed to know alternatives to metadal and to heroin.

(22:18):
So we were introduced to an article from Bangkok, Thailand
about an acupunctures who was treating a patient and after
he'd finished the treatments, the patient sort of confessed to
him that he had been smoking opium since he was
a teenager and that since he started doing the acupuncture treatments,
they had no desire to do any more opium. So

(22:41):
from TULL nine the collective because back in the days,
back in the seventies when I was involved, everything was
a collective. When we took over the nurses resident and
created a detox program, every department became a collective. So
because I was a nursing school, I was sort of
the union head of the medical collective. When Matula came on,

(23:03):
we decided that we're going to start exploring the alternative,
and we decided we're going to go to California. California
was the only state licensing acupuncturist and we wanted to
visit and see how it worked. I mean, we had
Chinatown in New York, but in California too, had some
friends that we could stay with and we could visit

(23:25):
the state since it was the first state to license
and have acupunctry clinics. Now, the clinics were private practices.
There were no programs like we eventually created. They were
just private practices that we visited. And so Matula Laft
from the Acupuncture Collective went to California and we visited

(23:47):
certain acupuncturists and we saw the technique and Matula and
I said, you know, we could do this. So when
we came back to New York, we actually central Committee
if we could hire an acupuncturist, and so we hired
two acupuncturers. And so our tasks would Toold myself and

(24:08):
Richard Delaney and rich Bird Wafia Hassan. There was a
collective of about seven people we were Our job was
to convince the addicts that we were going to needle them,
but they weren't going to get high, and we explained
that they would getting naturally high because the acupuncture would
give them some release from the pain and stress that

(24:31):
the body was going through and we would withdrawn and
so that that was our task. Within six months, the
collective decided that we could do this without the doctors,
without the acupuncturists, and so we started developing the detox
five point protocol and we started using one point at
the time and we just started detoxing. People would acupuncture.

(24:56):
So when they would come off their ten day detox,
we would give am acqui puncture and we organized hundreds
of people. Now everybody wasn't into it. We gotta be honest,
everybody was. They thought it was we were weird because
it would come to the clinic looking for a Chinese
acupunctures and find a Black and Puerto Rican acupuncturists. So
we became a regular therapist with the five point protocol

(25:19):
and we just kept adding a point and so in
nineteen seventy four we were invited to the World Acupuncture
Conference up in Montreal. Prior to that, every two years
they had a World accupunt of Conference, and two years
prior they had it in Korea. So when we found
out it was in Montreal, so ay, we could be

(25:40):
in Montreal in forty five minutes. So that's what we did.
We flew out the Montreal We presented our stats, our testimonials,
and there was a father and son acupuncture team in Montreal.
There was the Wetsu family. It was Oscro Wexsu, Mario Wexu,
his son, his son in law, and his daughter. And

(26:03):
those are the four acupunctors doing acupuncture in Montreal. And
it's a very good, interesting history. And I'm trying to
finish my book that I've been writing for the last
thirty years, but it's eventually coming out and there's a
lot of history behind it. Like I said, I recommend
people watch Dope is Death is on YouTube is free

(26:26):
and it's The filmmaker is Mia Donovan, who happened to
be in one of Mario's patients and they started talking
and he told he told me that he had trained
some black and Puerto Rican kids in the South Bronx
at Lincoln Hospital and she said, well, that would make
a great story, so she started. She made the second documentary.

(26:49):
The first one is called The People's Detox, but that's
not on YouTube. That's on vimeo anyway. So the story continues.
So after the conference, the Wetsu family were so impressed
on what we had done from the seventies to seventy four,
how many people we had helped, how many people we

(27:10):
had detox, that they gave us six scholarships to go
up to Montreal, and so another six members of the collective.
Only four of us went up, although Hassan came up
in the beginning, he had an accident and he had
a drop out of school. So then it was just
a four of us Matula, myself, Richard Bird, and Brick Delaney,

(27:32):
and we would go up to Montreal every semester, then
a semester there and then send two people at the time.
So I first started going up to Montreal with Hassan,
and then when Hassan had his accident, I started going
up with Intulu, and in three years we graduated and
became the first third World acupunctures, non Asian, third World acupunctures.

(27:57):
And we came back to the liquid detox for and
we knew we couldn't open up a practice because back
in the seventies only mds could practice. That's a situation
in Puerto Rico that we've been working on for the
last ten years and we haven't had success. But in
New York City within those same ten years, from eighty

(28:17):
one to ninety one, the amendment was finally passed and
non mds could be licensed in New York State and practice. Now,
it took her from nineteen seventy to nineteen ninety one.
That was twenty one years that we patiently waited and
did what we had to do to survive, work our
jobs until we could get license in New York State

(28:39):
and open up our practice. And we had quite a
few people because what we did was that because we
couldn't practice in nineteen seventy seven, when we graduated from
from Montreal, the collective decided that we would open up
for school. And so we opened up the school in
nineteen seventy seven and we just decided that we were

(29:01):
just going to train whoever was interested. I think we
were charging a few hundred dollars and we had cronical
these class kids from the Tristate area come through the
school to the Lincoln Acupuncture School, that's what we called it.
By nineteen seventy eight, the administration in the hospital in
the city and Mayor Koch and actually assembling min Schumann,

(29:27):
he was a semblement at the time. Now he's a congressman,
decided that they were going to get rid of the
radicals in New York and Lincoln Hospital. And it just
wasn't us. It was the white doctors who were radicals
and the community who had small organizations of radical activists
who wanted to change things, who couldn't deal with drugs anymore,

(29:51):
who saw the catastrophe of drug addiction, how it destroyed
families left and right. And so we became the first
acupuncturist and we created what they now call the five
point Protocol. Now, what happened was when they got rid
of us in nineteen seventy eight, mctula had created had

(30:13):
made a friendship committee because you know, China was closed
for about twenty five years when Miles in charge, and
when he reopened China, you know, President Nixon wanted to
go and he went there with I believe Kissinger and
we were part of the friendship committee that we just
became part of. And we traveled to China with about

(30:35):
thirty five staff from Lincoln Hospital, not just the Lincoln
Detox program, the Lincoln Hospital and just I'll give you
a little story We had a sister who was traveling
with us. She was I think a social worker at
Lincoln and she was having difficulty getting pregnant, and so
of cause Matola and I said, no worrybody, We're going

(30:56):
to take care of you. We spent thirty days in China,
and in those thirty days we would give a treatments
every lunch time because we would get like almost two
hours for lunch, and so we would give her a
treatment every day for thirty days. She got treated by us. Anyway,
When we returned to New York about two or three

(31:16):
months later, she runs into the tournament where we did
most of our work and she says, I'm pregnant. And
we were so happy because we knew it would work.
But everybody else was sort of, what do you mean,
occupunts is going to help? But get pregnant? And it did.
Acupunctes does wonders it works on the.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Right there, family, just waking up. What a story from Walter.
Walter our bor Rican brother from the South Bronx and
tell us about accupuncture alone with doctor Kakai Patterson. If
you're just joining us at twenty five minutes away from
the top of the hour and interesting enough because I
have the same sort of similar experience. But there's nothing
wrong me. I had an acupuncture and I told you that,

(31:58):
Doctor Passion, They said Asian guy at UCLA. I was
in LA and you know, because I were saying, well,
you know, one of my biggest concern was there was
the needles, if the needles were you know, how do
I know the needles are not contaminated? So we're coming
up our babes. I don't want you doctor Passion and
Walter to tell us about that because some people are

(32:18):
kind of like I was skeptical about taking having all
these needles stuck in the you know, not knowing whether
this the needles are sterilized or not. Then after the
after it happened, I didn't feel anything. I felt the same,
and and and on top of this, doctor was telling
me that the Asians created acupuncture. And since I've learned that,
since the doctor Patterson has told me, no, our people created,

(32:41):
uh created acupuncture. So I want you guys to get
into that that when we come back for this bread well,
we got to check the traffic and the weather, and
we're gonna check the weather and the sports and in
our different cities family. Youtubo control this conversation about acupuncture
at Doctor Patterson and brother Walter reach out to us
at eight hundred four five zero seven eight seven six
and we'll take your phone calls after the news. That's next.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Now back to the Carl Nelson Show.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Rising Family, thanks of waking up with us on this
Thursday morning. I guess doctor Kai Pantasy is an activist
in the Washington DC are also an acupuncturist and along
with his pal Walter Bosky, uh Borrican brother and they
work together in the South Bronx and taking the acupuncture
into into our neighborhoods. And also g Mac has checked
in from Detroit. We'll get to a momentary, but I

(33:52):
mean first I got to offer our condolences to the
family and the friends and the fans of Eddie Pallamary.
It's some of you know from Afro Jack as musician.
Those of us who grew up in the Bronx know
who he was. You know, that's who were introduced as
most of us the salsa and Afro jazz. But anyway,
he passed away in New Jersey. He was eighty eight
years old. Coming up later this morning, don't We're going

(34:13):
to speak with one of our top scholars, Professor James Small,
who's going to join us. We're going to talk about
his recent trip to Cammedy. I think he got back
back two days ago and tomorrow. Oh and before that,
Nubian leadership circles brother said hecke come bung. We'll check him.
But tomorrow Friday, we'll give you another chance to free
your mind. And you know not all that means. You
just think for yourself and join us for our open
phone Friday program, be getting promptly at six am Eastern

(34:35):
time right here in Baltimore on ten ten WLB, and
also on the DMV on FM ninety five point nine
and AM fourteen fifty wol doctor Patterson. Before we left
for the news up there, my question to you was
the civilization of the needles more than anything else. How
can we be confident that you know, these needles have
not been tarnished or you know, have germs on him,

(34:58):
whatever we want.

Speaker 5 (34:59):
To describe it.

Speaker 6 (35:00):
Thank you, thank you for that question. I'll turn the
little back old feat food in a minute. But I
remember walking into a drug treatment program in nineteen seventy
and seeing a guy laying on the table with needles,
and I thought, of course Ron Clark over at Wrapped
in Corporated lost his mind. But we were working with
the panthers and got exposed to it in that way.

(35:22):
But of course, back in the day, Walter can tell
you that we used an autoclave, just like they sterilized
the equipment in the hospitals. That's what we were doing.
But with the onset of HIV and AIDS and all
these other ailments that were hitting our community that were transmittable,
they began to use just disposable needles. So we were

(35:45):
actually using the same needles, but they were packaged for
one time use. Now we still have some traditional acupunctures
that still used the autoclave, so we know that autoclave
is a machine that used to sterilize surgery and hospital equipment.
These are the same. This is the same tool that

(36:08):
we use, but now we use disposable needles, and that's
at the expense of the acupunctures. But steel treating people
and setting up treating the processes in the community is
relatively inexpensive. Walter.

Speaker 9 (36:23):
Yeah, So back in the days, the needles were made
out of gold, silver and bronze, and so we were
sterilizing them. By of fact, even before we started using
the machines, we would boil the needles, but this was
in the beginning. Like doctor Gakais states, we now have
disposable needles, so they use once and you discard them.

(36:46):
You know, One thing I want to say is my
condolecens for the Palmery family, and Palmerio was one of
our heroes back in the days, even before we got
involved politically, we would do social uh events with Eddie Palmary.
I member Eddie Palmary when he was twenty five years young.
I will be seventy seven in October. So Eddie Palmary

(37:09):
is one of our social heroes. To my condolecens to
the family exact. And so we started using disposable needles
so we didn't have to worry about boiling them or
putting them in any kind of machine. And so when
you see these needles now, they're they're sterilized and they're disposable.
Use them once and you discard them. So that's the

(37:32):
issue with the needles. But the issue with the detox
is a bigger problem because we now have more drugs
out there than before. When you're talking about all this blindness,
that's going on in the community. A lot of it,
most of it is related to drug addiction, selling drugs.
People are killing themselves to sell drugs. Young people are
making a lot of money selling drugs, but some of

(37:55):
them don't last is they get bumped off and then
another crew comes in. That's part of the problem that
we've had was day one, and now it's even worse
because now we have more drugs.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah A hoo, thought right there, because we got some
more folks checking in G Max joining us from Detroit,
Grand riging g MAC. How did you get involved with
doctor Pattison acupuncture?

Speaker 5 (38:18):
So back in October twenty twenty three, doctor Kokaye came
to Detroit and trained the number of us in the
AES protocol. In just two months before that, I saw
the film Dope as Death. So to have the opportunity,
like in short order after seeing the film to actually

(38:39):
receive the training that I witnessed people administering in the
Dopest Death program, it was almost like divine order because
I hadn't even never heard of the history of this work,
and I knew doctor Mtoou's core in name and in
some deed, but I didn't understand that the degree of
his work, the way did I do now?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Man, thank you for sharing that. And doctor Patterson's sister,
are you shy? I hope I'm pronounce your name correctly.
It is checking in Also I line four ground rising sister.

Speaker 10 (39:14):
Oh yeah, can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yes, I can hear you. Now go ahead. How did
you get involved?

Speaker 6 (39:21):
Oh?

Speaker 9 (39:22):
I got involved.

Speaker 10 (39:24):
It's been many years now, Doctor Cotalia. He gave me
treatment at uh one of the sisters who who leaves
the Jericho Foundation House. And my children came along with me.

Speaker 5 (39:39):
Because I am a Muslim, so I couldn't be you know,
they had to be with me when I'm with a male.

Speaker 10 (39:45):
So my daughter was.

Speaker 11 (39:47):
My daughter was there and when it.

Speaker 10 (39:49):
Was time for him to remove the needles, he asked
my daughter to assist him and I'm looking like what
she don't like what you doing? This my first time
getting the treatment. So she did it. And then later
on he was like, I want I want her to
be a part of my class. So it took a while,

(40:10):
you know, he kept reminding me when he was seeing
in the community, and so he allowed her to uh
come to his class. And I will say my daughter,
she was a rough one, you know, her attitude, and
but I always knew that it was going to take
somebody els besides me to bring out the best in her,

(40:30):
or you know, to break her so that she could
understand certain things. So doctor Cokaine was Tevin sent. He
was the one that in law used to get my
daughter where she needed to be. So he talked my
word of the points, and she was only thirteen. He
told her the points and she ended up becoming one

(40:50):
of his top students. And so from that, from nine
and from doctor Gokai and the accupoint true process. He
also taught her how to do something and the Moxie sticks.
She went on to do phlebotomy as well, and now
she got her CDA in childcare. But her heart is

(41:13):
in medical and natural health. And she told me Mark,
I want to go back to doing the medical and
natural treatment.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
So that's where we're at now.

Speaker 10 (41:24):
Praise just me to a lawful tharitical kid. Don't think
he gets enough recognition for what he's done in the community.
He has literally given his life and everything he does
he doesn't in the name of Matuisal Court. Everything that
comes to health, we've been able to you know be
associated with matulichal Cour and that's a blessing within himself.

(41:48):
So today we salute and give honor. We're starting out
with him a Tulu day, but we go.

Speaker 5 (41:54):
In there with him a two who month. We hear
me so.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Away from the top family. He just checking in doctor
discussion here on acupuncture. We've got Walter with us. We've
got g Max sister a sha as you just heard,
and also got Fatty. I'm hoping I pronouncing them correctly
online five also from Washington, d C. Grand rising sister
or brother.

Speaker 9 (42:21):
I'm not sure, Peace.

Speaker 12 (42:25):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, I can hear you.

Speaker 9 (42:26):
Go ahead, He's this is.

Speaker 13 (42:29):
Faky house soon. Ali, I'm the daughter of the late
Babola Ali, I'm actually uh Matubush Record is one of
my uncles as well as doctor Pattinson. So I've been
in this movement pretty much all my life. Yeah, dealing
with my uncle. I just recently, over a couple of years,

(42:50):
have become his student, however, learning how to apply the
seed points. And this Friday we're going to have a
program and on my uncle who whose birthday at YSC
from six to eight.

Speaker 5 (43:03):
It'll be on Zoom.

Speaker 13 (43:06):
It will also be at ysc that's sixteen hundred. Well
I'm sorry, one thousand dollars Olive Road north seast from
six to eight lives.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, okay, great, we'll give out that information before you
guys leave. Doctor Patterson, what was it about matula that
he you know, when you talk about acupunching that he said,
Hey man, it's a good idea. What was it about him?
Or was it about how did you sell it to
him or did he sell it to you?

Speaker 6 (43:34):
No, he sold it to me.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
You know.

Speaker 6 (43:36):
I went to Gary, Indiana for the family of wintering
on what they called the Black Assembly, which of course
generated into what we now call the Black Caucus. So
all of the progressive, progressive revolutionaries, civil rights leaders, of course,
had that big meeting in Gary, Indiana. Ron Clark here
in Washington, DC sent me to Gary, Indiana with two

(43:59):
or three other folks to present a position against police brutality,
against methanone maintenance, coming up with better rehabilitation programs, etc.
And in the main meeting hall, I heard this gentleman
talking about acupuncture. I heard this gentleman talking about the
importance of leaving methadone alone and taking positions in our community,

(44:20):
and they had commander the stage, so right off that point,
I said, I like this guy right here, and I
ran down to the stage and it was Matulu Shakor
with a whole bunch of Black Power security guards around him,
and they had common did the stage so that they
can make that point about acupuncture, about the importance of
having good quality treatment programs to deal with the police brutality, etc.

(44:43):
I met him when he came down off the stage
and introduced myself. I said, hey man, I'm from Washington, DC.
I like what you're doing. You know, we need to
get together. Thirty days later, myself, Mathulu and Ron Clark
from Rapping Corporating here in Washington, DC, we met in
New Orlean and we formed an organization called Bad Blacks

(45:04):
Against Drugs, which was a collection of all of the
progressive drug programs around the country. You had Projecting Moji
in Detroit, Leali Legba up in Philadelphia, but all of
these programs had a cultural entity as well as a
revolutionary motivation to prevent the drugs in our community and

(45:25):
using alternative or using great processes like acupuncture. And that's
how I got into it. In nineteen seventy he gave
me my first book and began to train me.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Wow five away from the top that were coming up
on a break. We had to check the traffic weather
a different cities. GMAC in Detroit, we know what the
problem is. We heard about the problem in DC and
in New York, especially the Bronx. Do you have a
similar problem with drugs that you had to confront in Detroit.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
So in Detroit, what we're dealing with is young people
you are deddicted based on this pill culture and the
music and promoting the notion of popping the perk in
order to be cool or in order to believe your
stress as a normal coping mechanism from the people that
the children have, you know, been sold as their superstars.

(46:19):
And so that's one of the things that really attracted
me to the idea of this ADS protocol because our
work in youth development and an organization called Our Keep
a Line Village where we deal with children, and so
many of them are going through this opioid madness, and

(46:40):
this felt like another weapon that we could use in
this struggle for the hearts and the minds of our
young people to bring them around to a constructive way
of thinking. And living. So that's our primary problem. But
beyond that, you know, this is just a oneful treatment

(47:02):
to detox people period, whether they're dealing with hard street
drugs or just dealing with the realities of this toxic system. Yeah,
it helps to get to a place where they can
get their mind and heart right and be in a
community of other people trying to do the same thing.

Speaker 9 (47:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Right, We've got to step aside for a few moments
and check the traffic and whether they're not different cities,
especially in Baltimore. I want you to respond to the
question because GMC mentioned the opioid and it's a serious
opioid problem in Baltimore. I'm sure you saw the story.
How many people lost their lives over there, gotten some
bad drugs. So help us that when we come back.
Will occupunt your help them instead of taking these you know,

(47:42):
just like you replaced with the method one thing when
heroin was on the streets that you replace it with
with acupuncture. Can that be done for the folks who
have problems with with with these other drugs. So I'll
let you deal with that when we get back. We've
got to check the traffic and weather, not different cities.

Speaker 9 (47:56):
Family.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
You want to join this conversation with doctor Patterson on
his panel. Reach out to us eight hundred four or
five zero seventy eight seventy six and ticket colls now
anew Let's let's go. Letther Saiki comebo Vediki is part
of Believer in a Leadership Circle Grand Rising and Abari
Gani brother Sadiki.

Speaker 8 (48:16):
Grand Rising Brother. How are we doing?

Speaker 2 (48:19):
We're doing good? And thanks? Uh, you know, basically we're
still learning because I just learned a lot about acupuncture
right now and didn't know how much you're involved. That
Batula Shakur was with the acupuncture saving saving a lot
of lives. So yeah, I learned a lot this morning,
but I want to learn some more stuff this morning though.
I want to learn about your group, the Nubian Leadership Circle.
What is the mission of a Nubian Leadership Circle?

Speaker 8 (48:41):
Okay, well, essentially what it is called is that you know,
I've had experience with various groupings. It was a National
African American Leadership summit there it was mister Firek had
encouraged Ben Javis others to form that and then of course, uh,
the issues around the main man match and so what

(49:04):
it is is that what I saw was the coming
together of various groupings with a common agenda as it
pertained to working together and the best interests of black people.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
And so.

Speaker 7 (49:17):
What it is is that.

Speaker 8 (49:20):
As those two examples, they kind of inspired me from
the perspective of what our potential was in terms of
coming together. So a lot of times folks say, well,
you know, in terms of the the Nubian Leadership Circle,
they said, uh, what is it that uh the very
question you're saying, uh, the mission to the Luban Leadership Circle,
and is it uh similar to what a lot of

(49:42):
other groups are doing. And so we made it very
clear that and I should preface it by saying that
in terms of our mission, uh, miss Lewis Farakhan had
had stated he said, well, brother said day, he says,
what you and the new Leadership Circle uh attempting the
do who has never been achieved before. And so it's
gonna take a lot of patiences of time. And essentially

(50:03):
what it is, Kyle, is that if somebody has an
organization that's doing some really you know, positive work. You know,
we have like eight different cadres. So what's different with
what we're doing is that we don't say the folks, look,
this is our mission, our mandate, and we want you
to come and join us and become a part of

(50:27):
what we are doing. Specifically, our major goal is to
in fact bring together as many organizations as possible serving
the black community in terms of what their commonalities are,
and say, Okay, this is your specific mission. You can

(50:48):
maintain your sovereignty, but we want you to connect with
other groups that are doing similar work. An example, it's
like when we have the Land and Food Cadre, and
so essentially what it is is that you know, from
a local, national, international perspective, what it is is that
we say to folks, okay, like we've got a brother
patron down there at Atlanta that works for us. He's

(51:10):
a co facilitator for that piece. UH does extensive work
around landing food. And so we're saying, well, hey, you
know's got the the the Black Farmers Group out there.
There's a Nation of Islam and other groups that you
know Leake, Chini the group the folks out there and
Detroit that built the huge UH food co op out there.

(51:32):
So we said, well, what will it take to bring
those folks together in the room the same room together
and say Okay, this is what we are doing, and
how can we maintain our sovereignty and touris of what
we're doing, but still be able to work collectively in
the best interest of our folks so that it benefits

(51:53):
of folks. Uh, you know, locally, nationally and internationally. That's
the goal. So uh, we're very specific that. So, like
I said before, we don't say the folks, okay, this
is our mission. We want you to be part of
our mission, which is about something in terms of a
lot of specificity. Our primary goal is to bring together

(52:14):
folks in specific areas and I just gave Landing food
to come together and work in the spirit of cooperation
that's in the best in terms of our people.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Did you have any pushback when you made that call
for people to come together in unity and workers wanted
but still still having their own sovereignty, if you will.

Speaker 8 (52:35):
Well. Interestingly enough, Kyle, is that we've been very well received,
if you will, in terms of when we make it
very clear that when not saying the folks, look, we
respect what you're doing, but you need to come with
us enjoy what we're doing. In terms with a lot
of specificity, what was saying to folkses, you know, bring

(52:58):
your agenda in the same room as other folks of
their agenda. You maintain your sovereignty. But then at the
same time, how can you work collectively in the best
instag of people to produce the product that we're looking for,
so that we're not out here with our hands out
looking for allies. You know, get tired of folks always

(53:18):
talking kyl about what we don't have. Like when folks say, oh,
well we're poor, and I said, well, invent we use
black people in this country. We have a GMP and
they're saying it's estimated at three training yallars right now.
So we're not poor. We make poor choices. You know,
we get money. What we do is we run out
to the suburbs and we buy Jordan's. And so we're

(53:38):
saying essentially that you know, collectively we can do and
provide for us what we need. And what I always
use is then example of our ancestors when people talk about, well,
the bottom line is that you know a lot of
the struggles is based on the legacy you know, of slavery.
And I said, look, let's not use that an excuse.

(53:59):
Our answers just came out of slavery with no actual
resources and rebuild our family infrastructure. We had our own businesses, schools, hospitals.
So I don't only hear anything any excuses about why
we can't do. We got to do for ourselves and
so that potential is there. We got to share that
with our young people. And just to address your specific question, Kyle,

(54:23):
is that what we are are presenting and trying to
achieve in terms of its uniqueness has been well received.
So we're going to continue and you know, we make
it very clear that we're looking to lay the groundwork,
if you will, for something that say, for twenty years
from now, that our young people will still be building

(54:43):
on because we're not looking something and saying, you know,
well let's do this for now and see how it
works and in a couple of years we'll move on. No,
this is this is gonna be generational in terms.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Of I don't like that. I think for a few
minutes or seventeen minutes after's something family want to join
this conversation with. I guess brother Seki come Bom from
the Nubian Leadership Circle reach out to us at eight
hundred and four to five zero, seventy eight, seventy six,
and we'll take your phone calls next. Grand Rising family,

(55:29):
thanks for rolling with us on this Thursday morning, this
seventh day of August twenty twenty five. I guess his
brother Sidiki comebome from the Nubian Leadership Circle and brother Sidiki.
You have these conferences all the time periodically. What are
some of the major problems that you see find out
that people when you talk about people, you know at
these conversations, what are the major problems facing us as

(55:51):
a people these days?

Speaker 8 (55:52):
Well, you know, it's it's really interesting that there's there's
you know, there's several issues out here that you know,
need to be really to dealt with them, a deal
with on a daily basis, and so essentially, folks mean
to the table. You know, we've had eleven summits and
ten of them by zoom and then we had one

(56:15):
uh that was live. And we've had you know, the
feature speakers like mister Farrakhan and Corner West and others.
And we have eight cadres you know, like Landing, Food,
Family Essence, economic Development, you know, right on down the
line from those areas, and folks have in fact signed
up for those cadres, with the intent being that we're

(56:37):
looking to put as many of those folks as possible
to work in those specific areas. But the biggest thing
that's going on right now is that we have to
continue to build that infrastructure. And that's how focus now
because they're looking to take the NLC to another level

(56:58):
now because of the fact that, you know, still in
its infancy stages, but conceptually it's unique as there pertains
to the fact that we're trying to bring these various
entities together and say all right, you know, what can
we do? And you know, I'll give an example. I
mentioned Brother Latron, who's co facilitated for Land of Food,

(57:21):
and so essentially, you know, he's based in Atlanta, and
so you know, in terms of the NLCRE, you know,
we're actually based in DC and I'm here in Boston. Now,
what it is is that I think I had mentioned
before in your show that here in Boston, you know,
I'm in the group. I'm the director of the Black
Communitication Center. And so we led a ten year campaign

(57:44):
so that we had the former Dudley Square and Dudley's
Station renamed Nubian Square and Nubian station respectively, because you know,
Governor Thomas Dudley in the sixteen hundreds led the first
effort to legalize slavery in the country, so we get
rid of that, and so you know, with that achievement,

(58:08):
what it is essentially now is that we're trying to,
in fact take that concept to a whole another level
in terms of what we're doing naturally right now. So
the reason why I brought that up is because when
I talked about Brother Latron just in terms of our potential,
is that what has happened is that the last couple

(58:30):
of years we've had the Nubian markets open here in Roxbury,
and for the grand opening they mentioned the fact and
we weren't even where this is going to happen. At
the grand opening, which is well attended, they talked about
the fact that their first supply of vegetables that they

(58:51):
were selling were from a brother in Atlanta, Brother Latron,
And so all that there was reinforced from my perspective
of our potential because of the fact that here we
get Brother Latron with his business and he's supplying vegetables
for the Nubian market here in Boston, which all they

(59:11):
did was reinforce my mindset that you know, hey, we
can do this. It's just about us having the type
of confidence to say we collectively have the resources of
it necessary that we can do for self and stop
all this thing about how we need our allis you know,
white people who whatever to make things happen for us.

(59:33):
So I just gave that as an example of what
can happen if we just set our minds to it
and say, you know what, we can do this ourselves
and share that mentality with our young people.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, twenty five after So, brother, let me ask you
this question though, because you managed to turn Dudley Square
into Nubian Square, and the changes made that Nubian were
familiar that with people in the Boston area, then now
that you know, they'll probably go research and what is
Nubia or what is what is the Nubia and check
that out. Are you concerned though, because Donald Trump is
going around now and he's changing back some of those names,

(01:00:07):
the names, uh, you know, Albert Pike, the statues that
came down and some of these slaveholders, the names that
were some of the statues and you know, monuments are
directed to some of these slave holds. Some of the names,
giving some some army camps and all that, and he's
he's reverting them. Are you concerned that he may come
up to Boston and tell you fellas that, hey, you
got to turn it back to Dudley Square.

Speaker 8 (01:00:28):
Well, the bottom line is, you know a lot of
that has to do with us because of the fact,
like I said, you know, we were it's not over,
because of the fact that you know, we have to
be you know, fend out gentrification. But it's really interesting
in terms of what's happening. And first of all, Nubian
Square is is more than just not commercial district. It

(01:00:49):
actually covers about two miles in terms of his borders.
And what we're finding where what's very interesting is that
there's a developer here. Mister Taylor and I remember when
we cause what it is is that we had a
ballot question back in November fifth, two thousand nineteen, where
the residence of Roxbury voted almost ninety percent in favor

(01:01:11):
of changing the name. And so before the ballot question,
I remember Miss Taylor said, you know, so Diek, he says,
we understand the fact that uh, you know that, uh
and he's a businessman, Uh that how important this name changes,
he says, But he says, I don't know if you
have the understanding of what the implications are as it
pertains to the future area of developing in Neuvin Square

(01:01:33):
and seeing it right before our eyes. You know, this
Richter Taylor, he's getting ready to uh put the shovel
in the ground for two thousand, uh twenty six for
Neuvie and the sins which is gonna be a huge
complex commercial housing and culture. Uh. We've got uh black
market nub In and you know we c W of

(01:01:55):
course as a real stigm and we have to be
careful calls us banks are moving into the area.

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
And so.

Speaker 8 (01:02:02):
What it is is that folks seemingly are feeling really
good about the issue of what the developments going on inside.
We have what's called Metco where our youngsters you know, uh,
you know, they go to various schools in the suburbs
based on this program and our medical students there, you know,

(01:02:23):
the mechical program is based in New Vin Square. And
two years ago the medical students in fact, I created
what they call a tour of historic Nuvin Square and
on another occasion I spoke to several youngsters from the
O'Brien High School in Madison Park High School. They's side

(01:02:45):
by side and one of the youngsters said, you know,
brother Sidiki says, you know how good it makes me
feel to come out here from my school to Malcolm
Mexico to which will help change the name from New
Duta Street, he says, to Malcolm X Boulevard. He says,
if I'm going home, I can go down to Nubian
Square and get on the bus at Nubian Station. And

(01:03:08):
he said, I hope someday to be able to do
my homework in Newban Library, which is another struggle we're
going for. So what it is a lot of times
people think that our young people don't pay attention. They
are embracing that name. That gets back to what you
said that I'm sure that I might not be having
a school, but youngsters are saying themselves, you know, you know,

(01:03:30):
what's this newbian thing? And they're doing the research. So
I think that the bottom line is that, like I said,
gentrification is a key issue here right But what we're
seeing trending right now is that there's a certain level
of pride. We just had a huge it was the
fifth annual some type of festival, thousands of people in

(01:03:54):
Nubian Square, and there was another mini festival going on
at the at the library at the same time. So,
you know, we're optimistic as it pertains to the future
of New Men Square, but we would expect that that
mindset and spirit is gonna spread into other areas in

(01:04:15):
terms of the mindset of what we got to do
to build. So I believe that, you know, and you know, Kyle,
you know a tongue in cheek. You know, I've said
that Trump. You know, folks laugh all this. I said
Trump was my president. And then I tell people say, look,
I said that white man. He is very honest, and

(01:04:36):
I mean, you know, he's a liar, that's part of
his makeup. But he has stated, you know what, I
don't like black people. I don't have the useful black people.
So what you're gonna do? And so what I'm finding,
Kyles that more and more folks and there are some
folks who will not even be seen conversaated with Sadiki.

(01:04:57):
Now it's like folks are saying, what are we going
to do? And that seemed to be the type of
mindset that's moving in the right direction because of the
fact that that's the only option that we're going to
have right now doing for ourselves, having an old school.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Yeah, I hold the thought right there. Thirty minutes out
of the tough I want to go back to Nubian Square.
The name changed because you know, in every major city
we've got a King Boulevard on know where it is.
In Boston. First there was a fight to change it
to the Dono Monti King Street Boulevard or whatever, change
the street name because the merchants, who probably are not
like us, so they were concerned about changing all of

(01:05:33):
their stationary and all of that kind of stuff. That
there was a cost involved. That was why they didn't
want to change. But you know, brother Sidiki, you look
at the King Boulevard, King streets, king avenues throughout the country.
It's almost embarrassing. So my question to you is in
Boston are the people keeping up Nubian Square? Is it

(01:05:53):
something we can be proud of? Dr Welson talked about that,
you know, which we should not be throwing trash around
where we live. You know, we should beautify the areas
because that's what the that's what the colonized expect, and
that's what and they say, oh, we can tell we're
in a black neighborhood. So my question to you is
how the people responding to Nubian Square are they keeping

(01:06:13):
it up? Is it is it looking good?

Speaker 8 (01:06:16):
Oh well, let me just say it's it's moving in
that direction, Kyle. You know in terms of I know
one of the things in terms of like I said,
the organization that I had up here at Boston, we're
working to open up a house clinics uh in Nubian Square.
And so essentially what it is that a particular location

(01:06:37):
we're looking to possibly has a clinic ad And so
they said, well, the issue at hand, they says, is
that the environment in the square is not the best
interests of their employees. It says they had a lot
of females that were working with them. It's a it's
a location for housing for elders and services and elders.

(01:06:58):
And so for the last couple of years, uh, we've
been working and you know, look, I'm I'm seen as
anti police because of the facts spoken out many times
in the fast of All Black Men bench outter. But
I've got to give credit to the local the B
two police station that we worked out a situation here
and they had not been aggressive, but that strategically they've

(01:07:19):
come out just stationed themselves, so that a lot of
the quote unquote undesirables, uh, they've moved on. And so
just to give you an example of you know, used
to be, you know, folks used to talk about cow
about down Dudley and crime and drugs and you know,
things of that nature. Now, unfortunately, a few weeks ago

(01:07:40):
we had a shooting in New ben Square and just
to give you an example of the mindset of folks.
So anyhow, what happened is that the reporters are on
the scene and so one of the folks that they
introduced said, you know, we're not gonna tolerate that here
in New Ben's Square. That's our race. And so what

(01:08:01):
it is, Kyle, is that folks are looking at Newvin
Square as a new day in terms of, hey, you
know this is ours and we can do this, and
you can notice the improvements right now. Like I said,
it's really interesting. We've got well we're working on this. Also.
The Benjamin Franklin uh Comings Institute of Technology, Now that's

(01:08:23):
a a school that teaches trades that's been near downtown Boston.
UH since nineteen o eight. Uh, they have just they're
working on right now. They're building their new campus in
Neuvince Square. And now, of course we're trying to get
the the Benjamin Franklin name taken down because you know,

(01:08:43):
he was involved in slave trade and provided a lot
of the material that the slave catchers use the trade.
You know, that type of situation. But they have moved
that and eighty p eighty to ninety percent of the
student population in that school looks like us. And they've
moved their campus in the heart of Nubian Square, and

(01:09:05):
so you know, that kind of gives you a sense
of where things are moving. But you know, like I
said before, we have to be on the case because
of the fact that it's really interesting that we had
a mayor race going on, and so we have this
Josh Craft, he's the son of the owner of the

(01:09:27):
New Zeland Patriots, and he's running into mayor and he
has opened up his headquarters in New vin Square, saying
the hot and soul of Boston is in Roxbury. Of course,
like I said, we're watching out with gentrification. But that
kind of gives you a sense of where things are
moving right now. And as it retains to how folks

(01:09:49):
look at the square. You know, I don't know if
you heard of one United Bank and Terry Williams and
her husband, they're now they're the largest black bank in
the country and they have their headquarters in downtown Boston.
They are building their new facility in the high of

(01:10:15):
New Vin Square. And Terry talks about New min Square
wherever she goes, and so we would we would think.
And let me just say also that Jalen Brown, who
plays for the Boston Celtics, his whole thing. You know,
he always talks about the black wall streets and he
four seas because was supposed to be meeting with his

(01:10:36):
representatives and in the future four seas Newvin Square is
being a prime example of what can happen from the
perspective of a black wall street. So that gives your
a sense of the feeling of here, of what's going on,
and you know, it's we're still in the building, blocked stages,
but we're really uh encouraged by what we see and

(01:10:57):
feel that it's the bright future. And that what makes
sense the message only for folks because we know that
Roxbury is central Boston and with send another very strong
message to folks. Hey, don't try to come in again
and take this room us because we're not going anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Yeah, family, Rosbury's the center of black culture in the
Boston area. Twenty four minutes away from the top of that.
We gotta take a break when we come back, but
we come back though, Brother Sideki, you've been doing some
research into the assassination of doctor Martin Luther King, Jr.
I wanted to share that with us. And also now
Trump has released the classified FBI files on doctor King.

(01:11:35):
Did you learn anything out of those files, anything that
surprise you. It's not being talked about much, but I
want to hear what your research has done, what you
came up with the assassination of doctor King. Family, you
got a question for brother Sideki, reach out to us
at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy
six and we'll take your phone calls after the news
update that's next. Grand Rising family, thanks for staying with

(01:12:14):
us on this Thursday morning here sixteen minutes away from
the top of the hour. Yes, brother Sudik comebon later
this morning with one of our scholars. Are going to
be on our top scholars to saying Professor James Small
will be here and tomorrow is Friday. We're going to
give you another chance to free your mind and all
that means is actually just the thing for yourself. You
can join us at our Open on Friday program. We
start promptly at six am Eastern Time right here in

(01:12:36):
Baltimore on ten ten WLB and also in the DMV
on FM ninety five point nine and AM fourteen fifty WL.
It's brother Sidiki. Before we left for the news update,
I'll ask you a question because you've done some research
into the King assassination, and just recently Donald Trump released
the classified A FBI files on doctor King. Have you
had a chance to look at those files? Anything jump

(01:12:58):
out to you different from what you your research is
showing you about doctor King's assassination.

Speaker 8 (01:13:03):
Well, let me just say this, Kyle, that that whole
piece of releasing of the documents around Bess I said
Doctor King with Donald Trump was a It's a con game.
And the reason why I say it's a con game
is that they you know, they said that there's twenty
three thousand pages, and you know, under the offices of

(01:13:27):
the cross Dress and Jaegga Hoover and so you know
how he hated doctor King. So the bottom line is
that twenty three thousand pages of it, and of course
we don't want to because you know they're gonna have
everything in they're talking about, you know, maybe some of
the things that doctor infidelities and things that The bottom line,
Kyle is that, like I said before, that the work

(01:13:49):
we've done back in you know, beginning in Lee two thousand,
because then what is not being talked about, and I
talked about this before and show is that in nineteen
ninety nine, well prior to that, in nineteen ninety eight,
Correta Scott King and her adult children went to visit

(01:14:13):
James ro Ray in prison and they came away convinced
that he was not the assassin, and they filed a
civil suit in nineteen ninety nine where there was a
trial with like forty witnesses. Judge Joe Brown was the
ballistics expert, and the jury came back with a verdict

(01:14:36):
that doctor King was a victim of a conspiracy by
agencies of the US government that led to his assassination.
So I tell people, and we've told people through the
years many years. You could google doctor Martin Luther King,
assassination trial transcript, and everything is there. You know, nobody

(01:15:01):
talks about this car. Everything is there in terms of details,
In terms of one on the day of the assassination
at the Lorae Motel, they talked about Raoul, who was
a Cuban who provided the weapon that was held at
the restaurant of this white restaurant owner. They talk about

(01:15:22):
the fact that there was a Memphis police cruiser sitting
right there near the motel, and that a white police
lieutenant who's named ran out to the car and jumped in,
and there was a brother there. Evidently he had a
taxi waiting for a fare, and so he saw this

(01:15:42):
white lieutenant get into on my cruiser. So he just figured, well, hey,
you know, he was just doing his job. That brother's
body was found in the river four days later. The
bottom line is that, you know, I got to put
it out here, is that in terms of the you know,
doctor King's socials be in one room, but was taken

(01:16:04):
to the level up there where he was. His security
for that day was told by Reverend Jesse Jackson their
services weren't needed that day. And so what I'm saying, Kyle,
is that I'm not even gonna look at the twenty
two thousand pages because of the fact that we have
the information right there as it pertains to the details

(01:16:28):
regarding the assassination of doctor King. And let me just
say this, car I said it in your show before
that you know, for over ten years, and we're gonna
come back at it again this fall. We reached out
to folks the Black caucus, you know, like the official
folks across the board, saying, look, you need to be

(01:16:49):
on this, and black folk were afraid of the Coyle.
I remember when doctor King's son came years ago to
speak at the annual Malcolm Martin Luther King breakfast here
and after the break because he spoke at a major
church here in Boston, and just what it was announced
that you know, they'll take questions after his presentation, and
the head pastor came up to me and said, brother Sidiki,

(01:17:12):
we would appreciate it if you didn't bring up the
assassination issue during the question period. So what I'm saying
is that black people, you know, we reached out to
the office of Andrew Young across the board seemingly afraid
to even deal with this. So the bottom line is
that were saying to folks, hey, twenty three thousand pages,

(01:17:36):
it's a calm game. Go to doctor Martin Luther King
assassination and trial transcript, and all the details are right
there in terms of you know and what it is
cause that you know, we have sent out documentation to
the Justice Department, call them for a special investigation by

(01:17:57):
the Justice Department, knowing they were going to do anything.
But we felt that based on making that call, that
folks in positions who represent us, you know, like the
Black Hawkers and others, would act on it. They were silent.
They would not touch it because they're afraid of it. So,
like I said before, the twenty three thousand piece, that's
a con game because folks are gonna say, I'm not
gonna look at twenty three thousand pages. You know what

(01:18:20):
I'm saying, You don't have to go to that trial
transcript and everything. All the details you need are right
there in terms of that assassination. And that's the piece
that they don't want us to look at. And I
don't know how folks feel today, but black people in
positions of so called power were afraid to deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Afraid well nine minutes away from the top they avy
just check it in. Brother Cidiki come home from Nubian
Leadership Circle in Boston's with us this morning. He's done
some research into doctor King's assassination. Brother Cidiki, help us
out here, because it's a rumor that doctor King uh
did not die on the balcony. He died at a hospital.
And there's another rumor that somebody was smothered to death.

(01:18:58):
Can you clear that up for us?

Speaker 8 (01:19:00):
Okay, my understanding colle is that you're on point with
that that the bottom line is that what is being
said was that he was alive when he arrived at
the hospital, but that uh staff and particularly a doctor
actually we'll never know the truth suffocated doctor King. So that,

(01:19:21):
like I said before, he was what's being alleged that
he was still alive when he arrived at that hospital,
but that once he got in that room with that doctor,
that he got suffocated by the doctor that led to
his device.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
Wow. Another rumor that I hear I fact, I think
Dick Grevory mentioned this that the telephone operator, you know,
back in those days, you had a telephone operator push
the little plugs into different lines. That she also was
found successiously dead have you heard anything about that, Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:19:59):
Not specifically, but I'm glad you brought up Dick Gregory
because of the fact that he speaks on this very
subject and in many respects what I've just put out there.
You know, Dick Gregory spoke on it on a regular basis.
And I don't know, I can't remember this minister's name,
but there's a video of this minister who was doing

(01:20:22):
a presentation to a large group, and he mistakenly said
that something to the effect that along the lines of well,
one such and such movement in a certain direction, that's why.
And then everybody got quiet because he was describing the
scenario of what happened at the assassination, and they moved

(01:20:44):
right away from him. I can't remember his name right now,
but it's I.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Know what you're talking about. His name iscased me too.
I'm just trying to pull his name. He's from Chicago,
but go ahead, yes.

Speaker 8 (01:20:53):
Yes, but it's clear that there was a conspiracy led
by the US government to in fact assassinated doctor King.
And I tell people, you know, of course, when they
say there's twenty three thousand pages. And the other piece
to Kyle is that there's still a segment of that,
and I think this is the piece that they really
don't want to talk about, that there's a component of

(01:21:14):
the investigation that's sealed till twenty twenty seven, and I'm
wondering if there's some details in there that they really
don't want us to in fact be able to look at.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
But like I said, so what they released, you're saying,
brother Sidiki, wasn't the total classified information on doctor King.

Speaker 8 (01:21:32):
Supposedly that because this was not announced a long time ago,
that the files would be certain segments of the file
would be sealed until twenty twenty seven. So I believe
there's still more to come out, and I'm very curious
as to whether or not that's the piece it really
describes what actually happened, because supposedly it's sealed till twenty

(01:21:52):
twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
Because some people are saying that Dick Gregory and Steve
Cookley did some research too, and they came away with
the fact that it was it was local police and
FBI involved a state police as well. Is that what
yours research show that he was a combination?

Speaker 9 (01:22:10):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (01:22:10):
Absolutely, because of the fact that, interestingly enough, the fire
station right near the Lorraine motel. The the black firefighters
were told that they would don't have to work that
day and that the Army had station certified snipers on
the roof of the fire station. And I believe that

(01:22:32):
the bottom line is that I think that they were
they were there as the backup in case the folks
who were supposed to, you know, pull up this after
the lead deed did not succeed. But why would you
have US special Force snipers on a rooftop at a
fire station near a motel. So clearly right along down

(01:22:57):
the line there was a conspiracy by various agencies of
the US government that led to the assassination of the
doctor King.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
The weapon that was used, there was some discrepancy. I
think it was Cochley and the Gregory did some research
on the weapon that was used and they saying that
it is not conducive to the results of what they saw. Well,
can you talk about that?

Speaker 8 (01:23:18):
Stated, like I stayed initially for the trial, Judge Joe
Brown was the person who was fact announced that the
weapon that was used could not have been the weapon
that because he was you know, he was the expert
that was brought in to testify. And the other pieces

(01:23:40):
they said, was that James o' ray, although they said
he had a weapon's card. But I guess to the
fact that he had something go wrong with his vehicle
at the time, so he wasn't even near the scene
at the time. And so the bottom line is that
clearly he was just a pawn in this whole thing
in terms of actually happened. But there was a government

(01:24:03):
assassination without a doubt, There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Four away from the top. We gotta take another look
at the traffic and weather when we come back there.
My question to you is, how did James Olray get
out of out of Memphis? Everything was locked down, the hotel,
the transportation, air forces, everything locked down because of the assassination.
Here he is he winds up I think in London.
What's your research showing you how did that? Because he

(01:24:28):
had to have some help, how did he how did
he do that? Share with us when we get back
from the traffic and weather update, what's your research is
showing how James Olray, who was accused of killing doctor King,
how did he get out of town? Family? Interesting conversation
with my brother Sidiki come home from the Nubian leadership
circle he's done a lot of research into the King assassination.
You got a question for Brother Sidiki, reach out to

(01:24:49):
us at eight hundred and four or five zero seventy
eight seventy six and we'll take your phone calls. After
the traffic update that's next.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
You're racking with the Most Submissive the Carl Nelson Show.
You're racking with the most submissive yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
Thanks around Rising family, and thanks for sticking with us
on this Thursday morning. Here we are on the seventh
day of August twenty twenty five at Brother Sidiki countborn.
Brother Sidiki is from the Newbying Leadership Circle, are based
in Boston. They're based in all overplace, but many in Boston.
Before we left because he's been doing some research on
the King assassination. And you know, recently Donald released some
of the classified FBI reports on doctor King and we're

(01:25:53):
seeing if they if they coincided what Brother Sideki knows.
And my question to him before we left for the
traffic and weather up there was how did James ol
Ray get to line? Then you know it's almost like
this almost the next day, is your research is showing
that or indicate why? How how he got out of
that dragnet that was placed over Memphis.

Speaker 8 (01:26:14):
Well, let me just say this that that that's somewhat sketchy,
but let me let me do like I said before,
that based on the information basically research to be done,
is that James Ray was not actually even on the
scene when the actual shooting happened. You know that that
played a key role in terms of why Missus King
the family bollowed the suit and they were talking about it.

(01:26:37):
He even had a car problem, But clearly he was
involved in some form of fashion of the conspiracy because
as you mentioned before, how was he able to be
so mobile in terms of traveling when supposedly he was
this poor white male with how they any kind of resources.
So he's he's in the mix somehow. But like I

(01:27:00):
said before, his visit, the visit of the family to
the prison and he's sharing the details clearly convinced them
that he was not the assassin and that's why they
followed that suit. So based on the information we had
was that he wasn't even on the scene when the

(01:27:21):
assassination happened.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
When he's saying was on the scene, was he a decoy?
Was he in Memphis? Or was he not in Memphis,
he was somewhere else and then wound up in London.

Speaker 8 (01:27:32):
Like I said, the information he wasn't in London yet,
but supposed he was sketchy that it appears that he
was en route, had car problems, but not necessarily en route,
uh within having the plan for him to do the
actually assassination. I think gets back to what you said
that he was upon because of the fact that the

(01:27:53):
weapon supplied by the mysterious Raoul was there at this
restaurant and whoever pulled the trigger got that weapon from
the restaurant that was utilized to assassinate doctor King and
James o'raight.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
And you know what brother should he give. What's interesting
that you mentioned Raoul. That name came up in the
Kennedy assassination. Do you think that's just a code name
that the FBI used for a person.

Speaker 8 (01:28:22):
Possibly, you know, when it comes to that type of expertise,
I'm not in depth with that from that perspective, but
it could very well be all. Like I said that
there was no last name. They had said that it
was a Cuban and a mystery person named Raoul. That's
all that they have on the record. That he supplied

(01:28:42):
the weapon.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
He supplied the weapon. But the weapon, the actual weapon
that that Dick Gregory and Cochley and Judge Joe Brown
we evolved in, was that the actual weapon to shot
doctor King.

Speaker 8 (01:28:54):
That's no, that's what I can only go by, you know,
of course that's what the indiders had mentioned. But jes
Joe Brown in court said that the weapon utilized clearly
was not the one in the position of James old
Ray that they had there that supposes the weapon for
the assassination.

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
All right, I know you're going to keep digging, brother Sadiki,
because you know, some people want to know what really happened.
Some people like you mentioned, you know, they're cool with
what with the results of what the government is saying
the Hampton doctor King, and as you mentioned, all of
the all they classified documents you still have not been released,
and you know, I just wonder why they you know,
at this point they can't. I would think they can
unless it implicates some people who are still living. They

(01:29:40):
released all of the files on what hampted doctor King
would be interesting to see and hopefully when they do,
it's not heavily redacted because a lot of times they'll
release the field these these files and they're all blacked
out and you can't tell you know who that who
the person was, or what happened. But brother Sidiki, Uh,
before we let you go, how come, what when's the
next conference you're have within Nubian Leadership Circle? How can

(01:30:03):
people get involved?

Speaker 8 (01:30:05):
Okay, I'm glad you brought it up because of the
fact that we're we're making some major moves in terms
of of quote unquote upgrade in terms of our communications network,
and we're looking to do something major in the fall.
So uh, we're telling sposed to be on the alert
because of the fact that you know they can. We
have our website which is nube and Leadership Circle dot org,

(01:30:26):
or we have a telephone number of two zero two
because we're actually based in DC two zero two six
seven zero two four seventy nine. And like I said before,
we have eight cadres and for the various summits that
we've held, folks who sign up for those different cadres.
So we're putting those folks on alert to be prepared,

(01:30:49):
uh to go to work because of the fact that
we don't want them just there as folks who signed
up for summits. They signed up for areas of work
that they're interested in locally nationally, and it's nationally, and
we're going to be reaching out because, like I said before,
we're still building this process and we're going to continue
to do that, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
And I thank you brother Sidiki for doing that, and
thank you for you know, doing your research, man, because
some people are satisfied with what the FBI with the
government is telling us what happened to doctor King, But
I think we really need to find out really happened.
We need all that information, So I thank you for
doing that, all right.

Speaker 8 (01:31:26):
I very much appreciate the time on the Karl On
Nelson Nelson Show. I'll be I'm not exaggerating when I
say that, in many respects, your show is the only
one I listened to. And I want to get the
real information.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
Karl, right, and but you help you bring the information too,
and hopefully you get us some information what's going on
in Haiti as well.

Speaker 8 (01:31:44):
Because we keep hearing different things up because of the
fact that, as I mentioned before, we've got a brother
Kama Muhammad, who's a member of the NLC who is
based in Haiti. And I don't want to see too
that he's in contact with you.

Speaker 7 (01:31:58):
So I mean when I.

Speaker 8 (01:31:59):
Say he's based in Haiti, he's he's in it in
terms of what's going on over there. Uh, courageous brother.
He talks like he's just sitting home in his living
room eating a snack, but he's in the middle of
everything's going on. And I'm going to see to it
that he connects with you so that you can bring
him on there because you know, Kyle, will you know
I'll close with this. You know, the situation in Haiti

(01:32:20):
with the white media all you see and hear, and
that's not to say things are perfect over there, but
it is negative. But that brother, he'll talk about what
the circumstances are, but also about some of the positives
that are gone eighty that nobody talks about.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Yeah. One of the issues too with with Haiti is
that that folks don't know how how it got to
the situation, how it got to what it is right now.
I think that's important that people understand that.

Speaker 8 (01:32:45):
Yes, sir, all right, you better believe make the.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
Hookup for us. Brother Sadiki love to hear from him.

Speaker 8 (01:32:53):
He already knows about it. Is going to connect been.

Speaker 7 (01:32:56):
Connected with you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
All right, thanks brother Sidiki, thanks for doing that, just
staying out on the King issue as well.

Speaker 8 (01:33:03):
Oh absolutely all right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
Family, that's brother Sidiki come home from the Nubian leadership circle.
Turning attention to our next guest now is one of
our top scholars, Professor James Small, Grand Rising, Welcome back
to the program.

Speaker 7 (01:33:15):
Thank you by the Carl Report.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Yes, I was going to ask you this what you heard?
What what can you tell us different, because you know,
we hear reports about doctor King, and he was saying
that some people say that doctor King did not down
the balcony, he died of the hospital and somebody smothered him.
And there's some description whether that's internet chatter, if that's real.
What do you know, Professor Small, I.

Speaker 7 (01:33:40):
Don't know much. I was dealing with doctor King's sustassin
twenty years ago on television and I was one show
I was. I was on with the brother who was
the fireman, the black fireman who was moved from the
firehouse that day and he was running the fireman that

(01:34:03):
refused to lead because he knew something was up, and
he was fired and it was very clear that that
became assassinated by other than James ol Ray. That was
clear from the beginning to me. And it's very clear
that the government was fully engaged and fully involved. And

(01:34:26):
we discussed this, like I said, a couple of decades ago,
trying to deal with this and the black men who
was in the fire department, you know, the firehouse is
right across from the They were all moved that day
against they will and the world is known this for decades.

(01:34:49):
Black people in Memphis never accepted the James ol Ray theory.

Speaker 5 (01:34:53):
That's all that was.

Speaker 7 (01:34:56):
But the that's the one who pushed the government the blind.
I remember the day was happening in real time. No
one pointed to that balcony. That's a later picture. When
it was happening, everyone pointed to the bush, talked about
the man in the bush, all right. The people on

(01:35:19):
the balcony were pointing. They weren't even on the balcony
when doctor King was killed. That's a picture that was
you know, when you set something up later they were looking, Yeah,
they were not on that balcony. Only one other person
on the balcony. I think that doctor a Abanaty. The

(01:35:42):
rest of them came up after doctor King is killed
and point in that direction. I don't know who asked
them to do it, but as it was actually happening
on live news, everyone was talking about this bush, this,
this bushy area quite to the left of that balcony.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
Yeah, I did, Gregory mentioned that. But you mentioned they
had trimmed the bush or something that.

Speaker 7 (01:36:06):
No, there was a tree in front of his balcony
that was cut down. It was there two weeks before,
and it was cut down within that two week period.
Remember that King didn't originally go to the hotel because
everybody know they were going to try to kill him.
He went to the Hilton downtown. He was guarded by

(01:36:27):
someone on his staff that the black community donna think
you betrayed him, the black men that think you looked
down on him, you need to go. He moved out
of the safe hotel downtown and went back up to
the last hotel where he died.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
And at some point though we heard that he had
he had some uh I guess, some some infiltrators, some
agents in his in his his group as well.

Speaker 7 (01:36:52):
They talked about talk about the ones that Malcolm. You know,
if they had infiltrateds in Malcolm's groups, they had it
in doctor King's and we now have learned how Cointeil
Pro work. There's no way that hell they didn't have
intelltrators from the top to the bottom of that organization,
male and female. We know now that his photographer, when

(01:37:15):
it's his right hand companions, wasn't that the informant. That's
been made clear and the evidence was supplied.

Speaker 5 (01:37:24):
But so he was one.

Speaker 7 (01:37:26):
They never come and packages of one, well.

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
Fourteen half the tough the family, Professor James S. Walls,
I guess right now, profession w one of the things
that form agent doctor Tyrone Powers told us that he
said that coin tail Pro is still going on. They
just don't call it cointail Pro.

Speaker 7 (01:37:42):
Now your thoughts, Yeah, it was all cointail Proman was
counterintelligence operation. There was nothing unusual about it. It was
the cointail Pro was just the acronym of counter intelligence operation,
something to do with and their job was to infiltrate

(01:38:06):
our community and try to make sure we can not
carry on our struggle.

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
Yeah, I just I just wanted the family to know
that they're still They're still in business, you know, so
when you see some people operating inappropriately, right, they're still around.
It's still on Some of them are still on the
government payroll. So don't think that you when you see
some people you know look like us, all the skin
phone and kinfol you know, when you see them looking

(01:38:40):
like us and they're saying things that you you just
know it's just inappropriately. It just sounds like it's coming
out of somebody with a different skin tone of mouth,
and but it's coming out of black person's mouth. You know,
their suspect, you know, So then just say that don't
like the enemy call.

Speaker 7 (01:38:56):
They don't look like the enemy. They look like the
people who aren't filtering other and they sound like that,
sound like Malcolm. They're not there to persuade you. They're
there to go in an opposite direction. They're there to
pass the information about the direction you're going in. And
so they're more loyal, they're they're they're more Malcolm's bodyguard.

(01:39:21):
One his top bodyguard was the police. At least two
of them people he trusted completely Okay, nypdmember RYPD and
one was FBI and the one that confessed on his
best bed was FBI. The one that came out in
the Panther twenty one was was NYPD boss. The NYPD

(01:39:45):
intelligence unit of the time. There was others there for sure.
That was Central Intelligence. The one who came back and
said he ran away to Tanzania and he came back
to help the children and they were all over the place.
The This was not some baby operation against doctor King.
This was not Jared go Hoop for being mad personally

(01:40:07):
with doctor King. This was the apparatus of the State
Department and the Justice Department of the United States. Full Fledgs.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
Well, let me too, ask thisscussion. We'll call up on
a break though, a Professor Small. Let's talk about Malcolm.
The people who sold Mike we saw with chair and
Fred Hampton as well. But the people Malcolm is being
part of a member of the nation, they were meticulous
when it comes to security. How come they did not
know that he's got some agents amongst his group? And

(01:40:37):
I'll let you respond because I look at the clock.
We gotta take a quick break in. I'll let you
respond to that, because we know that if you've been
doing an event with the nation, you know how they
are when it comes to security. How did that I
know that the two close members of the security detail
were agents. I'll let you respond when we get back
from the break. As I mentioned, seventeen half the top,
they have family. You two can join our conversation with
Professor James Small. Just reach out to us at eight

(01:40:58):
hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six and
we'll take your phone calls next.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):

Speaker 2 (01:41:27):
And grund Rising Family. Thanks for sticking with us on
this Thursday morning with our tom scholars. Professor James Small,
you've heard him here before. Any any question African history
or anything that you do him about, Professor Small can
answer it. Professor Small just back from Egypt as well.
We're going to get a report on his trip, and
we also want to talk about Pan Afghanism and spirit spirituality.

(01:41:48):
But before we left for the break, Professor Small, my
question to you was, the nation is so meticulous when
it comes to security. I mean, you've been to the
Moscow or the Temple they used to call it back
in the day when Malcolm was alive, and you're Frish.
The women that are taken over there and the sisters
get fish. The women and the brothers go on one side,
and it's really it's really you know, you just don't

(01:42:10):
walk into the temple of the mosque. It is the
temple that they call him back in the as I mentioned,
So how come they they missed time? Do knowing that
these guys is not we're NYPD, and what's the who
the person work for? If you are.

Speaker 7 (01:42:23):
It's one thing to be good at risking people, it's
another thing to be good at undercovering is security and
filtraders frisking isn't security. It looks good to the black
community who have nothing going on, but the guy you're
frisking and letting go in is this as the one

(01:42:48):
who is not in anybody's security apparatus. There's nothing in
this risking and this physacle that's not security. That's exactly
what it is. Risking the make sure you have no
weapons on your personal bodies or no tape recording instrument
on your body. That's not what infiltrators do. They don't
wear weapons and they don't wear tape recorders. Their job

(01:43:13):
is to get in and carry out intelligence. That means
gather information, and it's almost impossible to stop that unless
you got an agent human detecting machine. It has been
said that John Shabbaz, who was the National Secretary, was

(01:43:34):
a known FBI informant, it has been, and the biopick
on who killed Malcolm X, that's brought up. But Malcolm
X himself referred to John Ali as being an FBI
informant and he was like about the number three man
from the top in the nation of Islam. And I'm
sure if he was, and people at that level, they

(01:43:54):
were in multiple other aspects of the nation. Malcolm said
more than once the nation was well don't and filtrated, Well, let.

Speaker 2 (01:44:05):
Me ask you this then, and knowing all that what
you just said, did you did they sort of get
that into the Godfather of Harlem?

Speaker 9 (01:44:14):
I did.

Speaker 7 (01:44:15):
We had the FBI agent killed by the CIA agent
and we had the brothers of the CIA agent off
the roof. You know, we talked about it in the film.
We discussed that, we showed who was in the room
to kill Malcolm that day. A lot of this we
put in that movie. Probably why we don't get any awards,

(01:44:38):
even though we wanted the most watched movie in the world,
and nobody is giving us awards and one and why
is that?

Speaker 9 (01:44:47):
But I know why.

Speaker 7 (01:44:49):
It's a little bit too much came out, especially around Malcolm.

Speaker 2 (01:44:55):
Yeah, well, we don't need their validation. Professor Small sally exceptional.

Speaker 5 (01:45:02):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
Let me just say, family, if you haven't seen any binge,
watch it. It is great if you were certain, even
if it doesn't matter what age you are. It's just fascinating.
Those are you who know some of the and you'll
know some identify some of the characters and they look
just like them, sound just like them. It's amazing. When
is it coming back, Professor Small, has it been remained.

Speaker 7 (01:45:24):
Heaven four should be finished its run. They're saying, going
back in the studio at the beginning of summer or just.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
Before, you know, And what era are they dealing with.

Speaker 7 (01:45:37):
We're still in season five and we're dealing with the
era of the Black Panther Party. So we're looking at
between sixty six sixty eight. You know, Malcolm gathers fascination
sixty five and so we started dealing with the Black
Panther Party and episode four months after the death of Malcolm.

(01:46:00):
You know, we're dealing with the lead character of being
a phoenixhor Tupac's mother and it's a fascinating piece. Even
the elements of how the Black Panther Party is used,
and most people don't know the history of the Shekor family,
but they all came from Malcolm X's oh a U

(01:46:23):
and mister Mosque, the Mamba, Mattulus Shakor the Age who
is the husband of a Sada and a Phoenix, and
La Mumba was married in Malcolm's sisters bed many of
the brothers who ended up in the Black Liberation Army.

(01:46:44):
They were part of the Malcolm x oh a a
U Youth Division.

Speaker 2 (01:46:51):
Have they depicted in the series two the Black Liberation
line of BLA No.

Speaker 7 (01:46:55):
Because we just started with the Black Panther Party. They
have a Lucian goes on. I'm y'all, we'll get there.

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
Yeah, it's interesting again. Family again. You check it out,
just search for it. The Godfather of Harlem and if
you haven't been following it, just binge watching and they know,
you know, when he finishes those of you who haven't
been follous. I've been following it. I think it's the
best thing on TV. By the way, not because Professor
Small is involved with it, but it recreates some of
these scenes and some of the history that you heard

(01:47:24):
about about Harlem and all the other characters that are
involved in there. It's a great it's a great flick.
But before you get to Egypt, your trip to Egypt,
Obama has a question for you. He's called from Buffalo.
He's online too, Grand Rising Bob, you a question for Professor.

Speaker 14 (01:47:40):
Small, Blessed love, family, A maximum respect to doctor Small,
Professor Smalls. With Marcus Garvey's birthday coming up on August seventeenth,
is there things that we can learn from the great
work that that brother did and as a global African people,
is there that we need to be doing to advance

(01:48:02):
the freedom of all African people as all around the globe.

Speaker 7 (01:48:08):
Well, the work we need to do is to read
the biography written by his wife by Amy Shot Garvey,
on doctor Garvey, and to read the works of Tony
doctor Tony Martin, who did probably some of the best
research on Garby, and move away from the petty bourgeois

(01:48:30):
zionist left wing liberal radicals who have been telling our
historical story since the nineteen twenties and be bought into
a lot that they've told. Studied the relationship between Booker T.
Washington and Marcus Garvey, and the way we were taught
was though those two brothers were friends, but enemies, and

(01:48:52):
they were the best of friends, and mister Booker invited
mister Garvey here, and mister Garvey said it to doctor
Martin that he came to America to implement the Tuskegee Mondels.
And yet we talk about you and I and all
of his program and totally leave the African American movement

(01:49:14):
led by Booker T. Washington and others out of it,
and many of them. You read sister Tyane Wright, doctor
Tyane Wright's book on Booker T. Washington, The Pan Afican
Is you will see a lot of this information, well researched,
well documented. I knew mister Booker T. Washington the Third

(01:49:35):
he was a member of THEAAU while I presided in
the leadership of Malcolm's sister. And I saw the letters
between doctor Garvey and Booker T. Washington years before they
were deposited in the Schamberg Library. He had them all
in his basement after his death, and his wife gave

(01:49:57):
them to the Schomberg There's so much we don't really
know because we even listening to our liberal white left
liars who have been controlling our narrative, we understand and
we need to gain control of the black historical narrative
for ourselves.

Speaker 5 (01:50:18):
Is the OLDAAU still operational? And what can we learn
from that?

Speaker 7 (01:50:22):
That be the learned it to be as clan destined
as you can be. The mistake Malcolm and I made
it's this public organization of Pasona because that was the
model of how you organize in that day. We exist
in multiple capacities and we will keep existing in multiple capacities.

(01:50:47):
I'm an eldern about to turn eighty. But the young
brothers and sisters who are our members, especially the young brothers,
they will always exist because they two have put together
the cadres that will follow that. Names are no longer important,
only function.

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
Sha thank you boy.

Speaker 14 (01:51:10):
Anniversary the grave shirt, thank you very much for the work.

Speaker 7 (01:51:13):
We've been doing that for sixty plus years. We've never
missed the day since Malcolm's death of not being at
his grave on his birthday, celebrating with the community and
remembering the work we have to do. Not a day
in sixty years have we missed on his birthday. And
the people doing that operation we wear no decals, we

(01:51:35):
wear no labels, we went no T shirts and we
wear no nothing. We're just doing it and the least
people know about the doers, the better we are. All right,
thank you. I need to get up to the Buffalo soon.
I'm owing, yes, sir, we're waiting for you.

Speaker 6 (01:51:55):
Brother.

Speaker 2 (01:51:57):
Yeah. And Professor Walls be in the DMV this weekend.
You're going to restaurant.

Speaker 7 (01:52:03):
Uh, get there.

Speaker 2 (01:52:04):
You're going to be a restaurant, right.

Speaker 7 (01:52:07):
Absolutely, And that's that's going to be fun because we're
going to decide to bring as much information as possible.
We just got back from Kimmett and from Ghana. We
were in Ghana for the panefests and emancipation and we
did a number of problems with the Ghana government and
I spoke on the podium twice with the government. And

(01:52:32):
yesterday there was a helicopter that crash in Ghana and
unfortunately some of the officials ministers who sat in that
podium with me died in that helicopter crash.

Speaker 1 (01:52:45):
I don't think saw that in the news.

Speaker 2 (01:52:47):
Was it suspicious?

Speaker 7 (01:52:48):
Professor Suh absolutely the one brother who I'm sure they
wanted to take out. When he got to the airport
a bit late, the plane was full, and he's that
I will have my driver drive me. I'll meet you there,
and thank god, he wasn't on the plane. I'm sorry
that we lost any of the brothers. But there's one

(01:53:12):
brother who's the head of mining and other things, who's
been leading the fight to get the Chinese and others
out of our minefields and out of our country, who
had been pushing the Pan African line of Kwam and Krumer.
The man looks We were together, and I said, brother,
have you ever heard of College Muhammad? He says, I

(01:53:34):
read College List film almost every day. I said, have
you ever looked in the mirror and realized you look
like Collin Muhammad? And he looks like college brother.

Speaker 2 (01:53:43):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:53:45):
But thank god he wasn't on that plane. Even though
our hearts ache for those who were killed on that helicopter.
I'm told that ten minutes in the flight, some fire
broke out a board and they tried to land it
but got caught in the trees.

Speaker 2 (01:54:01):
You know, So some folks are probably collateral damage.

Speaker 7 (01:54:04):
Then, yes, absolutely, absolutely, God, be aware that we are
at war. We can never forget that one second. No
matter what our post is, you must be conscious and
a where we are at war, and at any given moment,

(01:54:26):
the enemy would strike towards you. So you've got to
be prepared. The defense, defense, defense all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
Got you twenty six away from the top of our
Sister Sheen is checking in from Baltimore has a question
for you. She's online three grand Rising Sister. She know
you're on with the Professor.

Speaker 15 (01:54:43):
Small, Grand Rising Professor Law and to your brother calling
your team, Professor Small. One of the ways to help
identify infiltrators, one of my mentors was sharing with me,
is to feed them misinformation, be able, like you say,
to eliminate them. But once you know who they are,

(01:55:04):
it would you're not going to be able to stop.
As you say, they come and gather information to infiltrate,
to stop the mission.

Speaker 7 (01:55:15):
But no, that's the methodology that we used in the
past because we were We knew I had a nature
who hung on a party with me. If we had
an agreement, I'll feed you bossing you get yourself a
nice gig. And then they found that and threw them
up in Central Park into uniform. But no, that's one

(01:55:38):
of the methods. The other is the kind of vetting
you do. We didn't have the technology then to really
vet people back to their birthplace and things like that,
and right now if you one of the methods they
use if you want to if you're looking for or

(01:56:01):
any kind of employment is said and set there, they
do a history of your job background. You'd be surprised
if you'll find out immediately if you go to get
a mortgage on your house, they put the whole intelligence
apparatus on you. I remember when I was getting our
first house, the broker gave us a six page piece

(01:56:26):
that they said they did on our background and search.
It happened. So when I got into the main mortgage office,
there was an old friend of mine who used to
be in the Black Panther Party, and he showed me
the two hundred page piece they did on me. Everything
political I've ever done, every rally I'd ever been to,
except that step. They said that the mortgage broker.

Speaker 5 (01:56:49):
You understand, did they do.

Speaker 2 (01:56:53):
That because they knew you were an activist?

Speaker 7 (01:56:55):
No, they do that on all black people, and that's
how they found out. Should be give un alone. It
should be not.

Speaker 15 (01:57:03):
So, Professor fall I know brother called you to saydy
up there. He heard you a little bit yesterday. Why
do we keep having to go through one thing after another,
one thing at another? Is it because we allow these
people to come in and filtrate because we've had every leader,
great leaders that let us out of so much. But

(01:57:23):
yet today's time it seemed like we're worse off than
with our ancestors.

Speaker 7 (01:57:29):
Well, we don't allow them to come in. That's their job,
that's what they do, and we have to just get
better at detection. These are not strange people. These are
people that look just like us, born in the same
neighborhoods we were born and grew up in the same streets.
We come in like a young brother from Army Intelligence
back in nineteen sixty nine who defected. They're assassinated him

(01:57:53):
a month later, but he defected from them and came
to us.

Speaker 2 (01:57:56):
And the more the story right there at professors and well,
we've got a s episode for a few moments, sister
she and I thank you for your call. I let
Professor Small tell us that story when he gets back.
Something that doctor John Henry Clark Earls always says. We're
always joining in some group an organization without researching its origins.
And that's family. When you hear people say crazy stuff,
that's what you have to do. Anyway, We've got to

(01:58:17):
step aside and we come back, and Professor Mawll responded
to Sister.

Speaker 9 (01:58:20):
She and this question.

Speaker 1 (01:58:21):
Now now back to the Carl Nelson Show.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
You ran rising family, Thanks for rolling with us on
this Thursday morning with our guest, the Professor James. Hey,
do me a favorite call up. A couple of friends
are telling them Professor Small's on the radio. They'll appreciate
it and they'll thank you for it. Later Tomorrow's Friday,
we're going to give you another chance to free your mind. No,
that means basically just the thing for yourself. You can
join us on our open phone Friday program. You're being
promptly at six am Eastern time, and I wait to

(01:59:10):
the last minute every Friday. We got a bunch of
folks we don't get to because they wait till the
last minute. We start at six, as I mentioned, Eastern time,
right here in Baltimore on ten ten WLB and also
on the DMV on FM ninety five point nine and
AM fourteen fifteen WL. Professor Smaller, you're responding to Sister
She and this question. You're about to tell us a story.

Speaker 7 (01:59:30):
Yes, it's about this infiltration of our organizations. You know
it goes back to even Marcus Garvey. That's the first
time historically we see what it's called clentel pro A
young man in nineteen sixty nine, in an effort led
by SNICK and multiple other organizations, we had taken over

(01:59:50):
a whole city block square in Harlem, which we call
Reclamation Site number one, where the state was trying to
build what is now the New York State Office Building
and Hall. And most of the groups were there, you know.
And when I say most of the Panther Party, snake
elements that would become BLA, Food Fighters, International commandos. We

(02:00:15):
were making a stand and they were the young man
who turned himself into us. I was, of course a
part of the security network, and that's when I first
learned about the depth of army intelligence. And he told
us how it works and so forth and so on,
and we tried to protect them, but they killed them

(02:00:37):
less than a month later, saying that he was trying
to stick up a store on forty second Street. Crap.
So but he explained to us that they didn't recruit
for army intelligence from the elite college graduates and things
like the FBI. Did they recruit people right off of
the street so that they would not lose the right

(02:01:00):
of street culture. You understand, So you think this is
your neighborhood boy or girl. And they spoke with the dialects.
You did the gloaquim move.

Speaker 8 (02:01:11):
Like you did.

Speaker 7 (02:01:12):
They did. They were not enhanced, so it would be
harder to identify as being goomed by some other element.
And just that alone can tell you the extent to
which they went to. But I have another story that's
even more profound. The highest ranking black police officer at

(02:01:33):
that time is I won't call his name in Harlem.
In New York, he was a chief. His son had
gotten into a situation at college, and me and a
couple of the other brothers had helped him to go
cold turkey offer heroin because he was one of our friends.
We didn't know his father was the highest ranking policeman

(02:01:55):
in New York. And one day I'm walking out of
the walking towards the administration building. It's college. I was
president of student government and a man pulled up in
a big black limousine and I just saw a white hand,
well he was a black man, but the shirt was white.
Waved out the wind, then called my name or you know,
I started running like hell. I thought this as a hit,

(02:02:16):
and I ran into the building and hit behind a
column and he came out of the car and he
put on his jacket, and I said it was a
faux brass policeman. So I walked with God and asked
what does he want with me? And he was a
friend of Malcolm X's assistant. He said, I want you
and your man to leave that site. I said, I'm

(02:02:36):
not leaving that site. He says, no, you don't understand.
We're going to bust you on a certain day. And
Ella asked me because she know you're not going to
listen to her, so she asked me to come and
talk to you. And I said, well, why would you
want to help me? He said, you help my son.
I said it was your son, and then he told
me the young man's name, and I go like wow,

(02:02:57):
and I said, why would you Why don't you think
we can We did have a bloody fight all day
with the police on that day of the takeover. But
he told me, says small, listen to this car. He said,
seven out of ten the people you think is militant,
rather they belonged to us. Then he stops naming Navy

(02:03:22):
Intelligence Army Intelligence, CIA, corporate intelligence, FBI, local police intelligence.
Most of them are just informers. And I'm standing there
like in a state of freaking shock. I never heard
nothing like that, But now I'm hearing from the highest
ranking black policeman in New York that he may have

(02:03:44):
been trying to frighten me a little bit, but they
knew me, and they knew I couldn't be frightened because
he helped expose another undercover cop out of Beliefe working
for British intelligence. He exposed them to me. So this thing,
uh list infiltration about community isn't just trained policemen. The

(02:04:05):
largest segment is paid informants, and it's hard to detect
them because they're not trained in anything.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
Well, let me just ask you this, though, Professor Small
at thirteen away from the town, the Thurgood Marshall was,
you know, reporting on doctor King to the FBI. He
was a thinker and it came out later through freedom
of information reports, but he was doing it because he
hit this loyalty. He was so American and he thought
doctor King, what Doctor King was poisoning the black community?

(02:04:35):
These other these these street guys that you're talking about,
these agents, if you will. Why are they doing it?

Speaker 9 (02:04:41):
Is it?

Speaker 7 (02:04:41):
Is it just for the money, the same thing, some
for the money, some the police got something on and
for it's likely do any informant, you will go to prison,
or you'll do this for us. Those kinds are all
kinds of incentive, including intimidation and force. Then that's what
they're still using what we have to be clear on. See,

(02:05:02):
that's why I went heavily, very early in my understanding
into African spirituality, because there I can tell whether you're
real or unreal. In that world, white people don't survive,
neither does negroes, and the twelve world is a different place.

(02:05:25):
When you're dealing on the real you can either be
real voodoo or fake voodoo. And wearing a bunch of
drinkings as similar around your neck does not determines who
you are. It's like being in the Freemasons or others.
They are passwords and they are codes, they are signals,
and they are signs, and if you can't know them
and do them, you don't belong to us.

Speaker 2 (02:05:49):
Check that twelve away from the top. I wouldfore we
go to camera money. MIC's got a question for years
online too, who's calling from Baltimore Money mic drone with
the Professor Small.

Speaker 12 (02:06:00):
Good morning call, Good morning, professor, how you doing?

Speaker 7 (02:06:02):
Good morning brother. I'm just a little bit fatigued, but
I'm here.

Speaker 12 (02:06:07):
Okay, that's great, Professor Smaws. Can you explain to us
what the CIA's function is and how they been orchestrated
every cool every war, every overthrow of foreign governments, and
how they're here to keep this government stabilized. Can you
explain that to us?

Speaker 5 (02:06:26):
Please?

Speaker 7 (02:06:27):
Yeah, that's not and we shouldn't make them mysterious there there.
The CIA is an information gathering agency and in that agency,
once you gather information about another people and their intense,
their organization, the structure, and strategy. Then you have people
in there who are analyzed what harm could that be

(02:06:51):
to the continuation of America, And then they make a
determination whether we destroy that instrument that may harm us
if you don't. There's nothing complex about to see how
and what they do. They're not mysterious. They gather information
and they kill people who they think are threats. Once

(02:07:11):
they gather that information, you know, they make murder in
corporate look like child's play. And that's their job. All
nations have them. Your job is to gather the data
on your competition, and if your competition presents a threat
to your direction and to your intentions, then you neutralize

(02:07:32):
that competition, whether it's through assassination or information, whatever you
have to do. And that's what they do. And the
more we understand about them and the simplicity, the more
we can stop them. Sometimes we make them so complex
and feared that were scared to do anything. No, they're
just people gathering information, bits and pieces of information, and

(02:07:56):
when they put it together, those bits and pieces make
a picture of you and your tent and your plans
going forward. And if that is is the urn to
be a threat to them, then they move against you
in one shape form or another.

Speaker 2 (02:08:13):
And question Mike for professional is is that what we're
seeing Donald Trump is doing these days?

Speaker 7 (02:08:21):
I don't know what Donald Trump is doing. Donald Trump.
Don't work for Donald Trump. And that's the first thing
you need to understand. Donald Trump is an employee. Find
out who works who supports Donald Trump. Who are the
top ten millionaires that billionaires, I'm sorry, that's back in
Donald Trump. Then you'll know who's running Donald Trump. Don't

(02:08:42):
confuse the player on the ball team with the owner
of the team. He's just a raggedy rich bumb who
has been able to impress the bottom of the cracker barrel.

(02:09:04):
And that's the only segment that they've never thoroughly organized
since the Civil War in the coming up the ku
Ka Klan, and so they're reorganizing that sector. That's you
can see them in the people he appointed to the
different offices. That's a large segment of white America. You know,

(02:09:26):
the ones he called the poor this and the poor
that the most ignorant element who feels left out of
the power sharing in America. And they've convinced them that
the reason they're left out is because of people of color.
And they're able to manipulate that ignorance and that anger
and that displacement. And Trump is good at that, even

(02:09:49):
though he his family, mother and father are illegal immigrants
and his wife is an illegal immigrant to this country.
But we need to learn to do research on these
people like they do it on us. Yeah, But like
I said again, you can look up and find out

(02:10:10):
do the search. Who are the ten? Then make it
less who are the five or six billionaires that bag
Donald Trump? And you'll know what the play is.

Speaker 2 (02:10:24):
They're wealthy we've got some homework to do from Professor Small.
Here seven away from the top of the first small
tweet question for your tweeter says, this is brother Ross
Jillman in Buffalo tweeting. He says, how important is it
to watch the news and the policy changes in African nations?
And he mentions mining, visa, land acquisition, and citizenship.

Speaker 7 (02:10:46):
It's important to do that on a daily basis. But
don't just watch Western news. Look at the news out
of Asia, look at the news out of the airb world,
look at the news out of the African world. And
with the technology of social media and internet, we can
see the daily newspapers in any African country. We can
see the daily newspapers in any Indian town. So use

(02:11:10):
the social media, use the internet to see what other
people are reporting around the world, and you will have
a good idea of what's going on on a daily basis.

Speaker 2 (02:11:23):
Another tweet question for you, Professor Small, Please ask doctor
Small to talk about the Texas petition forcing the removal
of the Juneteenth Ole mechead mural.

Speaker 7 (02:11:34):
I know nothing about that. I haven't heard anything, so
I can't speak on that.

Speaker 2 (02:11:40):
Yeah, I'm not familiar with it. As well. So Darren.

Speaker 7 (02:11:45):
Questions sometimes when they should act on these questions by
just spreading information on We've got the internet. There's no
shortage of how we can share this information with the
rest of the black world. Don't treat me people like
me and everything. We're enough the mercenaries for the black community.
We have the same obligation as you do. You have

(02:12:07):
the same obligation as we do. There's nothing special about
me except I took my obligation seriously. But everybody in
the black community should be a professor small. Everybody in
the black community should be John Henry Clark. Everybody in
the black community should be Muhammad Ali. Listen to their
works and then replicate them and improve on what they

(02:12:28):
were trying to teach us. That's how we make change.
But if you sit back and just push people like me,
when I get killed and everybody run hide, don't push
me to my death, replicate me so much. It wouldn't
be worth it. It wouldn't be worth it for them
to kill anybody. It's only worth it for them to

(02:12:50):
kill us because they know they can remove a source
of information flow, because we haven't established other information flows
that's significant enough to threaten them.

Speaker 2 (02:13:04):
How important is it in this day and age for
us to have that flow of information for our people
because seems.

Speaker 7 (02:13:09):
Want Hey, that's our intelligence apparatus. Information intelligence is nothing
more than gathering up information, analyzing that information, and using
it to your advantage economically, politically, and culturally for your survival.

Speaker 6 (02:13:27):
That's all.

Speaker 5 (02:13:27):
It is.

Speaker 7 (02:13:29):
Gathering information, analyzing that information, finding out the things that
are critical for your protecting and advancing your economic situation,
your cultural situation, and your political and spiritual situation. But
if you just sit back and then Okay, I can
go to job, to my nine to five, I can

(02:13:50):
get my money. I can go out on the club
on the weekend. I can go on vacation because there's
a professor small out there opposing the system. No, everybody
Black have the same obligation I have. Why should I
sacrifice my family, which I've done for almost six decades,

(02:14:11):
and my children and my grandchildren and my wife and
the rest of my community is going on with life
like nothing is happening. And when something happened to someone
like me, you said, I don't need you celebrating me
when I'm dead, That the clock didn't need you. Malcolm
didn't the other people crying at Malcolm's funeral? Why weren't

(02:14:33):
they all members of OAU, armed and trained and ready
to go to war? Although crying over doctor King, why
didn't they have him surround us or no bullets would
reach it.

Speaker 2 (02:14:48):
We're talking questions and I'm putting us on blasted three
away from the top. Ye. I gonna take a short
break and we come back. Carling Palm Beach, Florida, has
a question for your family. You two can join a
conversation where we have the Professor James once my top
scholars by the way, reach out to us at eight
hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six. I'll
take the phone calls.

Speaker 1 (02:15:09):
You're rocking with the most submiss the Carl Nelson Show.
You're rocking with the most submissive, yourself.

Speaker 2 (02:15:39):
A gun rising family. I guess this Professor Small he's
going to be in town this weekend. And I can
always tell you that if you get a chance to
hear some of our scholars, please show up in person.
Who's gonna be an eLife restaurant. We'll give you more
information about that. Those of who didn't have a chance
to see doctor Wilson in the Flesh of Doctor Ben,
Doctor Clark, Van c Ronoka Rashidi goes on it's antalysts.

(02:16:01):
You didn't get a chance to see them all. Now
you relying on their tapes, you get a chance to
hear and see and talk to Professor Small this weekend.
We'll give you more information before we leave about where
it's going to be. It's going to be an Eli restaurant,
and we'll give all the details later. As I mentioned
before we left, that Carl is calling us from Palm
Beach County, Florida, has a question for Professor Smally's online too.
Grand Rising brother, Carl, you know the Professor Small.

Speaker 11 (02:16:23):
Gr Rising family. My question, Doctor Small is that when
you when they started the movie, I didn't get a
chance to see the first beginning of it, and I
was just curious as to whether or not they explain
the X that Malcolm had and where the X came
from and the mission of that X, because a lot
of times we don't understand how the nature something comes

(02:16:45):
into existence, so we don't understand that what his purpose is,
and I would just that's my first question. Did they
explain the X and who started the X? And why
the X was given.

Speaker 7 (02:16:57):
No and remember the guy I found OUTLM. Listen to
me straight. The Godfather of Haarlem is financed by the
white folks in MGM, manased by the white folks in ABC,
and for us a few black folks that are in
the midst of it. We're trying to get as much
about stuff there as possible because we had to take
the crafts we are the actors, we are the directors,

(02:17:21):
and to try and explain our story when they're trying
to talk about one of us in a story. And
so you will see a lot of the efforts coming
because of that. I think the ex in one of
the states. You know, people because this wasn't a movie
about Malcolm X. This is a movie about Bumpy Johnson.

(02:17:44):
What me and others and primarily me forced Malcolm X
on the scene because they're both they were very good
friends and they were in the environment of Halem at
the same time and actually working together, which most people
didn't know until this movie, and so we took the opportunity.

(02:18:05):
After the document that the movie was predicated on based
on was written by Bumpy Johnson's granddaughter, Margaret, and it
was something that script that the script got improved and modified.
And in the script, you know, she talks about her
father's relationship to Malcolm, them playing chess together nearly every Sunday,
but they knew each other when they were youngsters eighteen

(02:18:28):
nineteen years old in the streets. It was probably Bumpy
Johnson who saved Malcolm Light when West Indian ARCHI wanted
to kill him. And that was the strong basis of
their relationship. And so when they came back, when Bumpy
gets out of prison in nineteen I think fifty seven
and he came to New York, he found that his

(02:18:49):
old friend had become a minister in an organization that
was rising and called the Nation of Islam, and they reunited.
So that's basically what that script is about. But somewhere
and that we did talk about the acts, but it
wasn't explained, you know, in detail, that the acts represented

(02:19:10):
the name African names that was taken away from us
and until then, and.

Speaker 11 (02:19:17):
Then the process and then the process in which it
was given. Because when you acquire next, you don't just
get the next. It's a process that you have to
go through. And I think if people understood the mission
of the person that gave that to us. It was
to save those of us in America. And lastly, the
part when you talk about the search procedure. What the
search procedure does. It provides you an environment where you

(02:19:39):
can be assured that the people that are inside of
that areno or wherever you're located, that no one has
any weapon that they're gonna come at you. They got
to come at you with their hands or something that
they find inside of the place. But it makes everybody even.
And then the other things, the external things, you have
to deal with that differently, like what you were talking about.
But I think many times we don't explain that myself

(02:20:00):
to come but I just I'm gone. I just want
to ask you about that.

Speaker 7 (02:20:04):
Thank you.

Speaker 9 (02:20:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:20:07):
The Nation, even just the search procedure that the Nation
created in terms of its methodology, is now used by
almost every black community in the world when someone's coming
into a facility. More than that of what the Nation
did in the the environment from which it had to
recruit with elements many in the beginning elements of society

(02:20:31):
the rest of the even black society, had rejected. And
yet those men and women were raised and trained to
a level where they became leaders in that black society
that had rejected them. There's a lot and this is
a common upon the members of the nation to stop
being silent about the nation. Give the messengers to the people.
You can't hide them in your pocket. And that's why

(02:20:52):
the people don't talk about the messengers. Because in the
Godfather of Halem, and we talked to Minister Farkin and
the nation because we put wed we've got the message
in the Godfather of Halem portrayed by Clipton Davis that
Clyston looked so much like it was almost spooky sometimes.
And we presented the message in a very positive light

(02:21:13):
in The Godfather of Halem in multiple episodes. And so
we need to have the courage. Yeah, they cut out
a lot of stuff we wanted, but we had the
courage to push what we got in there, you know
what I'm saying. And wherever we are, whatever our job is,
if we go there as black men and women, not

(02:21:35):
as white men and women who happen to be black,
we've got to go to what we're doing as black
men and women with the interest of our community, whether
it's a political thing, a cultural thing, or just a
plain post office job. Saying I'm going to post office
job pretending you a white middle class You going that
job representing the black community, the best of our community.

(02:21:59):
Whatever you're a policeman, don't become a policeman. You be
an African American, a black man or woman who is
policing our community. If you just become a policeman, I
mean you've accepted the philosophy of oppression that has come
to us from the police department, and now in black face,
you're doing the same thing. No, go in there as

(02:22:20):
a black man or women whose obligation is to be
thankful for the opportunity that other blacks fought for you
to have this job and do what they intended, service
our community and protect our community from those that would
destroy it, even when they look like us. It is

(02:22:40):
our intent that has to change. We have to empty
the white content in our minds that form consciousness and
imbue it with black and African content that will determine
our intent. And that intent should be the survival and
the uplifting of the Black community.

Speaker 2 (02:23:05):
And that goes for any job that we're on or
any pleasure. Yeah, you get it. Let me ask you, so,
a professor Small did you ever have on the set
The Godfather Holmes, did you have again in a dispute
where they wanted to put something in that you know
was sort of detrimental to the black community, and you
had a fight to get it kicked off.

Speaker 6 (02:23:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:23:25):
But the brother he's Italian named Chris Brancado, and he
got to be typeful Chris. Chris grew up and Teeneck,
New Jersey in an integrated black environment and being Italian
in black, he comes out of the the crucible of
that with a lot more humanity and clarity than most people.

(02:23:47):
And we had another brother who was his partner, the
two showwriter Paul, who passed away two years ago from
a heart situation. And so we didn't have that much infighting.

Speaker 6 (02:23:58):
We had it.

Speaker 7 (02:24:00):
But you got a writer's room where all the writers
are and be putting up all the ideas on the board.
Where do you want to go with this? What are
the ideas you want to project? And so we're doing
that as a group. That's where the fighting take place.
And once the script is written, it sent out to
the key person, me being one of them, and almost

(02:24:21):
any critique that I made was looked at. I didn't
get all of them change, but much of it when
I thought of it, not in the best interests to
display our people in that way. So you don't see
a lot of things in this movie, even though we
dealing with the drug situations of black bols being junkies
in the streets. And what we're showing is that the

(02:24:45):
black men and women who were called gangsters were no
less on no more businessmen and women than the whites
who were called gangsters, and their aspiration was a response
to the way society had gluted them from opportunities that
it had included white folks in. And so you take

(02:25:06):
a different approach to identifying these characters and their efforts.
And we look at the oppression in the black community.
We look at what caused riots in the black community.
We do the anatomy of riots back in the nineteen sixties,
so people kind of see what led to it, what
was behind it. We deal with police corruption very openly,

(02:25:26):
so people can see what police corruption look like in
the black community. So we have a lot of these themes.
We deal with black people fighting back because normally you
don't see that, So we have the Nation of Rislam
fighting back. Politically, you don't see that in anybody's movie
and very few documentaries even positive Nation as a revolutionary

(02:25:49):
political instrument in the black community, which it was. And
I tried to push and others to get it displayed
as that in The Godfather, and I think we did.
I think we brought the message forward in a way
that people never saw him and appreciated him and I
understand his mission. We couldn't do it as heavily as

(02:26:09):
she was because the movie was about Buffy. But we
got it. We got stuck in in and nobody else
in America can say they got into into the movies
they were doing. And it wasn't just me that there
was a clue of us. Forrest Whittaker should be given
credit for more than me, because Forrest was the last
word on everything, because he was the star. But thank god,

(02:26:30):
he was my brother and my comrade and my friend
who I loved dearly and one of the strongest Black
men I've ever met. You know, even though he's a
quiet brother. He's quiet, soft movement, easy quiet, but the
strength behind that brother, you know, and the brothers who
was in the movies. But he's running refugee camps in

(02:26:51):
southern Sudan refugee camp in Uganda, refugee camp in Columbia.
He's got special programs in the schools of LA for
black male children, And hey, what are you going to say?
And he quietly goes about his life.

Speaker 2 (02:27:07):
Well, that's quiet strength. Thirteen the Top Day. Thank you
for that, Professor Small. Jason's calling us from Baltimore. This
guy's a question for He's on line three. Grand Rising
Jason on with Professor Small, Grand.

Speaker 16 (02:27:21):
Rising Dean Nelson, and Grand Rising Professor Small, thank you
so much for your work to the community. Professor I
have two questions. One is is with the grandfather of Harlem.
Of course, you know we have to be careful with
these types of shows because it tends to sensationalize the
worst in us. But were you responsible for really that

(02:27:43):
imagery of showing Malcolm really doing the work of transforming lives?
What I mean is like those imageres in the mosque,
you know, with our brothers and sisters going through detox,
like I wish we could do that now, especially here
in Baltimore where we're dealing with thousands of we wait
deaths a year, Like were you responsible for making sure

(02:28:04):
that that was purposely shown the work that they were
doing going down into the drug debt.

Speaker 7 (02:28:10):
Right, it'd be wrong about it with me. It was
a collective. It was Chris Berancato, it was Forrest Whittaker,
it was Paul S, another brother, was myself. It was
another writer what was his name, Michael. So there was
a collective of people who made those kinds of decision.
It wasn't one person. We all influenced some aspects of

(02:28:32):
how we want to see where he wanted to go,
But it was a collective that it was really led
by Chris Bancado. He really wanted to tell a story
about black people coming from the minds of black people.

Speaker 16 (02:28:46):
And the other question is, sorry, the other question is
whether or not was there any signs or evidence of
our own co intel pro Did we ever start our
own uh information agency?

Speaker 9 (02:29:04):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (02:29:04):
You know, and and would that necessarily have been covert
or what have it? You know, necessarily been out there?

Speaker 2 (02:29:10):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (02:29:11):
But uh, you know, I'm wondering did we ever have
a network like that? And why didn't we have a
network like that?

Speaker 7 (02:29:18):
And and we did and still do. But you know,
you have to also have capitals because you go and
then fill and we had people who and I don't
like to say that aloud, like, and we're not with
a member of the Sons of Africa. One third of
our membership with NYPD that we sent to join NYPD

(02:29:43):
so we can have what we call legal guns, okay,
because there were some campuses that tried to barred us
because they said we carried weapons, and so we would
say we will bring no weapons on the campus. But
when we got to the campus, they made it clear
we do have weapons. But they all legal weapons, and

(02:30:05):
they're off duty and they have a right to do
what they want to do and we weren't there on
the organization had networks like that, but it's very difficult
for us because of their strength and money, is very
difficult for us to fiel trait them at the high levels.
What we do is try to convert somebody that's already

(02:30:26):
there towards out our interests, and they have brothers and
sisters who on their own realize the contradictions and come
over to our side.

Speaker 16 (02:30:36):
But no, every organization have a better understanding of that. Again,
you know of loyalty, you know, loyalty to our people.
You know, I see loyalty in every other community.

Speaker 7 (02:30:46):
That's the key. But but loyalty come from knowing your history.
I always tell your history erases the mystery. If you
don't know your history, you can't even determine your intent
because you do not know your content. All right, Once
you know your content, you can determine your intent. Your

(02:31:08):
history is your content. And that's why they fight so
hard to keep us from having books in school. That's
why they fight not they have black studies programs in schools.
They understand if you give the people their history the intent,
their intent will change plastically. But if you don't.

Speaker 2 (02:31:27):
Thanks for that, Professor Small, hold that thought right there.
They gotta step aside for a few moments as you
finish your thought. When you come back and for the
cause and wants to speak to you. And I also
want you to define what is pan Afghanism, so people
are confused about that word. And also spirituality they're confused
about that as well. Think get those issues. When we
get back, family, you two can join us. You got
a question for a Professor Small, reach out to us

(02:31:47):
at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight to
seventy six. I will take a phone calls next.

Speaker 1 (02:31:54):

Speaker 2 (02:32:13):
Perfection and note for note invitation. Well that's on this
Thursday morning with our guess, Professor James Small. Professor James Small.
Yesterday we had a conversation with Bob A Lamumba and
somebody called in the studio wanted to know what is
Pan Africa and Africanism done for African Americans. I thought
I'd save that question for you.

Speaker 7 (02:32:36):
Well, first, it's a silly question. Is a question based
on ignorance, and people think that their ignorance should be
held up high as intelligence. Now people need to be
called ignorant. When you're ignorant, ignorance means you don't know
something that you're pretending to know. And so we need

(02:32:56):
to move away from ignorance and start becoming enlightened, which
means we do the research to know what we're going
to ask. The question about the word Pan simply means unite.

Speaker 9 (02:33:09):
All.

Speaker 7 (02:33:10):
Pan Africanism means it's Africans united. Then what's wrong with that?
But see, what you're hearing is cowardism. What you're hearing
is the same anti African Negro colored stuff that was
against doctor King and against Malcolm That's what you're hearing.

(02:33:32):
Let's not let them cover themselves up as being something different.
It's the same consciousness that opposed doctor King. It's the
same consciousness that opposed Elijah Muhammad. It's the same consciousness
that opposed Malcolm X. It's the same consciousness that opposed
Marcus Gabi. It's the same consciousness that opposed Book of Washington.

(02:33:53):
This is that element that says we do not want
to rock the white boat. This is that elements want
to say, we find right here in America, but they
want to try to quok it in some kind of
little mystery something or other. No ignorance is ignorance. Pan
Africanism simply means the philosophy that allows you to work

(02:34:16):
towards African unity worldwide. It's not an organization, it's a
concept of unification. How do we unite a pan Africanists
must learn the history of African people, whether it's in
the Caribbean, the United States, the UK, Canada, or the

(02:34:37):
continent of Africa or even Saudi Arabian nation. We should
know our history and we should make every effort to
unite our people wherever we are politically, economically, culturally, and sparsely.
That's all pan Africanism means it's not an ideology, all right,

(02:35:00):
there is a concept of unity, global unity of a race.
All other communities that's kicking on behinds economically and politically
is unite. There's Pan Asianism, there's Pan Europeanism. We're the
only ones that's afraid of uniting because it brings a
responsibility on us to give up whiteness as a consciousness.

(02:35:24):
Some of us are comfortable with whiteness. We feel safe.
We are afraid to fight the system. Oh they're going
to take our jobs. Oh we're not going to have
We're not going to be able to go into this
place of that place. Well, if you're working as a
slave and you can't protect your children from drugs, and

(02:35:44):
you can't protect your family from bonlence, you're already a slave.

Speaker 6 (02:35:48):
No matter what kind of.

Speaker 7 (02:35:49):
Job you had or whose college you went and got
a degree from. You can have all the degree in
the world. You've got to leave your community and move
to a white community to have safety. That's unintelligent. Any
intelligent person would want to unite with his kind and
build the secure environment to raise their children in. But

(02:36:11):
people fight in the streets for you to get a degree.
They fight in the streets for you to get access
to jobs. As soon as you get the degree, in
the job, you abandon the community that once fought for.
That's anti Africanism, that's anti blackism. Pan Africanism would be
we're going to stay in, unite together, and we're going
to use our degrees and our wealth to build a
safe black community. I look at East Saint Louis ninety

(02:36:34):
percent black, and we impoverished. Where is the black wealth?
Go and build? Said Lewis, is already ninety tive percent black.
The only thing is lacking is black wealth. Okay, black
intelligency who knows how to build things. But if your
consciousness is sore and slaved, then you get three PhDs

(02:36:55):
but can't figure out your race. What's wrong with you?
What is wrong with you? You want to have an
esthetic that displays beauty, You're going to have an aesthetic
that displays beauty. That is the enemy. The worst esthetics
you can have. White women raise white men. They run

(02:37:19):
the culture in the white community. So if it's a racist,
anti black culture, who is the leaders of those cultures?
So who is aesthetic? Are you carrying the same thing
with the black men where you studentize and nice as
a place. But if you make the aesthetic of your murderers,
the aesthetic of your enslavers, the prototype for how you

(02:37:43):
should look as a man or as a woman, psychologically,
you're so deep in slavery. Economically and politically, we're still
in deep trouble. And so pan Africanism talks about African aesthetics,
being upfront like Anina Simone, all right. Fan Afganism talks
about being together as a people like got the King,

(02:38:06):
and Malcolm called for us to do that. Economically, politically
and culturally, we help ourselves so we don't have to
go to Chase Bank and beg on our knees to
get a small business loan because we've got banks in
the black community. If we're spending one point seven trillion
dollars wise, and that's invested in a black banking network

(02:38:26):
with all of these HBCU leaderships we got in this country,
but they're not Panaficness. They're not about uniting the black money.
They're not about uniting black culture. They're not about uniting
a black black black black politics. We've had people called
the Black Caucuses and the Black Caucus that and we

(02:38:47):
don't see one piece of legislation about black people coming
out of the Congress. Nothing And even at the state levels,
we like to call us our black caucauses, and all
we mean is that black people with black skin is
gathering and caucusing. That's not a black caucus. Black caucus
must have the economic, political, and cultural interests of black

(02:39:08):
people in the forefront. The Latinos are not afraid to
do that. The Asians are not afraid to do that.
What is wrong with these weaklings? What is wrong with them?
They do not have an African consciousness, meaning they have
not learned the African history. They knew that, they know
we were enslaved, but they don't know their history of
US slavery had done to us. Study doctor Joy, the

(02:39:29):
grass work, study Uh, Sister fans as wealth and work,
they will inform and instruct you of what your condition
is and what you need to do to change that condition.
But pan Africanism is simply the unification of African people economically, politically, culturally,
and spiritually.

Speaker 2 (02:39:50):
And I'm glad you said that, professor, because there's the
internet rumor going around saying that Pan Africanism is funded
by the CIA and people are say, and hearing this
and they're repeating it.

Speaker 7 (02:40:02):
That's the CIA. Those who are running that line, they're
the same ones that infiltrated Marcus Garvey. They're the same
one that infiltrated the nation. They're the same one that
led to the assassina, said doctor King. They're the same
one that led to the assassins. The Malcolm we know them.
Whenever it looks like black people are getting together, that

(02:40:25):
line comes up. You got thousands and thousands of people
doing what we just did. We had ninety eight people
to call on a pilgrimage to Ghana and Kim. We
didn't have one negative incident. I mean, people were enjoying
themselves in a Pan African movement towards unifying ourselves with

(02:40:50):
our people at home and abroad, and they came back.
I was reading some of the notes on the page
last night. I can even believe in forty years I've
been doing these stripts. This is one of the most beautiful.
People brought their children. I took two of my grandchildren.
Others brought their grandchildren, Others bought their children. I saw

(02:41:12):
more families than in the history of forty years. Why
were we bringing our children because we want them to
know they're Africans, that that's our race. We are a
mighty race with a mighty history. And when you are
informed and instructed by the activities of your ancestors, you
can't help but be stronger. You don't feel inferior to anyone,

(02:41:36):
you don't feel second to anyone. You know what you
deserve as a human being. You know how you should
be treated as a human being. We're not trying to
integrate with nobody's culture, nobody's language, nobody's history. We are
trying to integrate with our own ancestors experiences. It doesn't
matter for the idiots. Then this isn't the radio stations

(02:42:00):
saying this, This is me. Who would think that if
you came from Africa a thousand years ago that somehow
erases the fact that you came from Africa. Africans populated
the entire planet, including North America, So what's new about that?
Only the ignorant would find that's fascinating. Didn't you see

(02:42:21):
the black people in all the Spacific islands. Didn't you
see the black people in Australia. Didn't you see the
black people in Russia? In China? We were everywhere. We're
the first. We have the indigenous creation of God, or
whatever term you want to use. But what it is
is that people don't want to take the responsibility for

(02:42:41):
the unification of our people. They don't want to take
the responsibility. So they said, well, we're Americans, We're indigenous.
Indigenous to what. You don't even know what the word
indigenous means. Show me your indigenous data. Don't tell me
about what some metaphorical white man been writing about the

(02:43:02):
Nakis and all this other foolishness. There's enough data and
evidence and history left. Get yourself a plane, save that money,
go to Kimmitt, go to Sudan, and nothing you think
you see over here, you would not see there long before.
I know who my family is, and a good bit

(02:43:23):
of my family came here before Pacific Co Lumbus. But
that don't preemptancy. I'm not an African. I know much
your coronation. How many of you could lead your blood,
not fake blood, trail back to your African people who
were here before the slaves came. Go to Mexico, Go

(02:43:45):
to southern Mexico. The brothers and sisters, they will tell
you the story about those who came before the ships
that those who came on the ships being the same people.
You just discovering something that ban Certaman others have been
discussing for decades. And you're just coming into little fragments
of the truth, and you're allowing the enemy to pay
you and use you to try and divide the black

(02:44:08):
community from being who God and the universe made us.
We are Africans. Wherever the name came from, we've accepted
the name. And the name came from a small group
of black people who live in Tunisia. You know, there's
no there was no keybu Lahn. I love doctor band.
I don't talk about doctor Ben. I sold just beside him.

(02:44:30):
I held his hands while he was dying. But don't
tell me about things. You know nothing. But you're not
in struggle. You're trying to find a way not to
be responsible for fighting for freedom. And you have to
be responsible for fighting for.

Speaker 5 (02:44:46):
Freedom and.

Speaker 2 (02:44:49):
From the top. I'm coming here for a second professional
and I'm glad you said that all what you just
said because Plant Afghanism is sort of under attack on
the internet, and want that show means that we're making
strides people are I mean maybe because what's going on
as the hold nations the people. All of a sudden
globally there's an awakening of Africans. So they tried out

(02:45:11):
this fella and his group to try to blunt that.
That's how I see them, how about you.

Speaker 7 (02:45:15):
That's exactly what this is. And I'm going to get
more calling these traders out because some of them, some
of the youngsters that's following them, are just following that
ignorance and fascination. But some of the one's leading them.
These are educated people and claire traders that have made
decisions for the sake of making some money, a handful
of dollars on the internet off of the ignorance of

(02:45:36):
their people.

Speaker 2 (02:45:39):
Yeah, well some of our on the Republican payroll as well,
but we'll leave that thing.

Speaker 7 (02:45:42):
Yes, I can absolutely bet money on that.

Speaker 2 (02:45:45):
Not just oh yeah, that's for sure.

Speaker 7 (02:45:48):
The Republican Party run the Democratic Party. Let's not forget that.
Malcolm told us that, and it's still true. They're just
different sides, two sides to the same coin.

Speaker 2 (02:46:01):
Twenty six away from the top, Brother Corlis has a
question for you. He's online too. He's called from waldorphrom
Mallan Grand Rising. Brother Collis your question for Professor Small, Grand.

Speaker 8 (02:46:10):
Rising Carl and my dear brother, Professor Small. First of all,
Professor Small, thank you for the checkup from the neck
up on the people that are bereafed, our people who
are bereafed of our own history. But I wanted my
question goes to this, is that as you have articulated
and operate in the belly of the beast New York City,

(02:46:35):
what about the political analysis on the candidates that are
running for the mayor of New York City Cuomo, Eric
Adams and Mandami. And you have said that we should
be elected politicians that are out to liberate us, not

(02:47:00):
just to be politicians that come out to put on
a show for us. So, my dear brother, I asked
you that question to give me your analysis of that
New York mayoral race and how those politicians of how
they edit out as far as our community is concern.

(02:47:23):
Thank you and I appreciate you right.

Speaker 7 (02:47:26):
And I don't know any of them very well. I
know Adams better than I know most of them. I
knew Adams before he ran into politics. I knew him
when he was a policeman in Brooklyn. I knew him
when he used to put on lectures and by doctor Jeffrey's,
doctor Ben and doctor Clark to do lectures for him.
I knew him when he founded the Blacks and Law Enforcement.

(02:47:48):
Now politically I don't like some of the positions that
he has taken, but I haven't seen anything for any
better than what he is offered. If you want me
to tell you the truth. Their others who feel that

(02:48:08):
how you said, they feel that Manzan is progressive. I
don't know what that means when it's in the mouth
of a non black person. I haven't seen a progressive
white or Asian bring anything to the black community. Manzan
went back to Uganda to get married. I remember how
his ethnic nation were the British part of the British

(02:48:29):
colonial power structure, and that's why Idiotmin had the rise
to remove them from power. Being from Africa on me
nothing if you were there to exploit Africa and historically
have been that exploit He talks a very good radical,
but I've been not here long enough to know that

(02:48:50):
radical foolishness is just that radical foolishness, and I know
the difference be deemed that and what policies can really happen.
He was in the Statussembly. He had very strong radical views,
but he didn't have very strong implementation of anything that
he was talking about. And I noticed the people who

(02:49:11):
are supporting him, they're the same people who supported the
people who was always enemy to black people. So I
don't understand that. And for many of our brothers have said, well,
he's progressive and he's radicals. That's rhetoric and Cuomo Clomo
is a part of the same Italian Catholic power broking
instrument that has kept us suppressed and oppressed in New

(02:49:33):
York all along. But Adams is still backed by the
same people because we have not put together. Adams have
more Black community support than any of the others, but
he's also supported by the same elements that we call gionis,
but some of the same elements that we call right
wing white supremacists. Because that's who's trying to control New

(02:49:56):
York City. Control of New York is about who gets
the contract, who gets the confessions, who gets to spend
the nearly trillion dollars of tax money for building roads,
for painting buildings, for for for maintenance, maintaining buildings, or
running the schools. Who's gonna who's gonna give out those

(02:50:19):
contracts right and hold.

Speaker 2 (02:50:21):
That though right there, professional step aside last time. I'll
let you finish talking about the New York mayor race
because Donald Trump says he's gonna get involved in it
as well. It's twenty two minutes away from the Tough
Family own. It's the speaker, our guest, Professor James Small.
Reach out to us at eight hundred four or five
zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take your phone
calls next.

Speaker 1 (02:50:42):

Speaker 2 (02:51:05):
Bank Grand Rising Family. Thanks for rolling with us on
this Thursday morning with Professor James Small. Before we go
back to Professor Small, we have to offer our condolences
to the family and the friends and the fans of
Eddie Palmary. Eddie was brought Afro jazz to the world,
also taught the folks in New York about salsa. Eddie
Palmery from Spanish Harlem, and he made his transition yesterday.

(02:51:27):
Eddie Palmery was eighty eight Tomorrow Friday. And they give
you another chance to free your mind, think for yourself.
That's all. Free your mind means to think for yourself
and join us for our open phone Friday programm again
promptly six am Eastern Time, right here in Baltimore on
ten ten WLB, and also in the dmv R on
FM ninety five point nine and AM fourteen fifty WL.
All right, Professor Small, I'll let you finish your thoughts,

(02:51:50):
and then sister for here has a question for you.

Speaker 7 (02:51:52):
You knows I dealt with the Cuomo what he had
a chance to show his alliance with black and and
he didn't do it. The young man Manzan I don't
know him other than his record, but I know the
history of so called progressive and our community have him
panned out too much. And Eric Adams, many of the

(02:52:15):
policy he's made, especially around law enforcements and rebsing, stopping
prints and other things in our community, shows that he
has a greater loyalty to policing than he has the
black folk's freedom. So I don't know whether we have
any choice in New York to talk about, because the
fundamental mistake of those who call themselves progressive is to

(02:52:38):
stay on the periphery of politics and tell somebody's running
and then try to make a determination on somebody's ideology
instead of organizing to make sure the person that's running
is the person you want to run, a candidate that
you put up, and we haven't done that, and so
we are caught in a called quagmire. Do we go

(02:52:59):
with this white guy or this Indian guy or this
black guy? Because that's what the choices comes out to,
because I don't see any progressive anything in the history
of them other than rhetoric that will tell me I
should make this choice of that choice. I don't see
any Adams, even though Adams have not been the criminal
of the white media has tried to make him out

(02:53:19):
to be. If he was, he wouldn't be in office,
you know. So we've got to do a lot of
research and make a decision based on the historical behavior
of people towards the black community. That's the best way
I can put it. History will tell you who your

(02:53:39):
friend is, and history will tell you who your enemy is.
Not their campaign slogan isn't. That won't tell you anything
except somebody wants a job.

Speaker 2 (02:53:51):
Got you fifteen away from the top estimation Stem fahimas
in Washington, DC one as a question for Professor smass
Sehn Line seven Grand Rising System.

Speaker 17 (02:54:01):
Professor Small, Good morning, mister Nelson hoteugh to you, baba,
okay Buba, please hear please hear me out okay. So
Zoran Kwame Mandami, who actually was his parents named him
after Kwame in Kuma and they were involved in the
anti apartheid movement in South Africa. Both Letitia James and

(02:54:27):
I know you know Hassan Jeffery since he was a
child support Zoran Kwame Mandami. He is proposing freezing rent
to create affordable house rent increases to create don't.

Speaker 9 (02:54:44):
I've heard all of.

Speaker 7 (02:54:45):
Those things before. Have you everstend anyone runs that don't
say those things?

Speaker 17 (02:54:50):
Well, yes, yes I have, Baba. So you know about
him putting his proposal to put uh city run groceries
in areas where we have two desert now do you
do remember? And there were black people, black men who
had purchased those uh Faxi medallions who were put out

(02:55:14):
of work as a result of uber and lyft coming
into the community. He actually went on a hunger stride
until the city settled with those folks, settled with those
those those drivers, many of those were black people who
had spent millions of dollars is loan. And then in
terms of the free buses. He had a pilot program,

(02:55:36):
a pilot program in his district where you get funding
to create those those free busses. Now, Gordon is not
going to be easy for him to do the things
that he wants to do. But the things that he
has proposed are things that all of us will benefit
in New York because black people are paying exorbitant rents,

(02:55:58):
having to work two and three to pay their rent.
We do have food deserts, and we would benefit from
this transportation proposal. And I don't think we really have
a choice because the thing is that he's proposing juxtaposing
what Cuomo and and I'm sure you know CMO didn't

(02:56:19):
get pushed out of office because of sexual arrests. He
got pushed out because he puts patients COVID pations and
nursing homes and tens of thousands of people die. And
I knew Eric Adams as well, and the person he
is today is not the person he was before he
became the Brooklyn Borough president. And so I am voting

(02:56:41):
for Durham Kwame Mundani because of who he.

Speaker 10 (02:56:46):
Is and what he represents.

Speaker 17 (02:56:50):
And I will follow up with a call to you
later on because I sent you something, I emailed you
something that you should check out, and so I'm gonna.
I'm want to land.

Speaker 7 (02:57:03):
I've studied all of them, and at eighty years old,
there's nothing that any of them have a saying I
haven't heard. And my family, we grew up and miss
alcoholage is paid by My father was a cab diver
to an uncle full the cab dive. I remember when
they bought their first Monday, and I remember us running
our two gypsy cabs, so I understand what was going

(02:57:24):
in that industry, and even his fight alone with hundreds
of others fighting for these issues. I'm saying simply that
people have to do their own research and make their
own decision based on history. We are not a people
starting history. We have a history to base the behavior
of everybody that has ever come to our community and

(02:57:46):
promised us everything from the communist part is of the
twenties to today. Now, maybe something has changed, maybe people
the most sincere, maybe the ideology and this notion of
progressiveness that gets labeled on this one, that one.

Speaker 1 (02:58:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (02:58:01):
I'm not telling anybody who to vote for. I'm saying,
and the three of them and Sposi Ganda's concerned. I'll
just leave that alone for history, because we bought the
anti a mean craft that was run down, and most
of us still buy it because we're don't willing to
study history or listen to the mean speeches. I knew

(02:58:21):
him back in sixty seven, and I knew the fig
out in the false start that we see. I don't
know what Gonzan and the people who back him are.
I know there's a lot to learn from seeing who
backs a person. There's a lot to learn from saying
who puts some money behind a person? And we need
to see who's putting the money behind Eric Adams, who's

(02:58:43):
putting the money behind Mazone, who's putting the money behind Pomo?
Everybody know Como is. We know what he represents, we
know what ethnic group he represents, what religious groupie represents,
and we need to learn the same about all of
the others because we are always getting played out of
pocket every election, and we are still say and now
asking what happened. I don't know all those black people

(02:59:04):
that the government and the newspapers went after, who was
in the administration of Eric Adams. You're telling me all
those black people were corrupted all that, and not one
of them are gone to jail. Now one is gone
to trial. They forced them out of political office. And
we're not saying anything but what that process was. Who

(02:59:26):
is the forces in the media doing this? Who are
these people that's attacking? And I understand. I've listened to
the young brother when his ideas are beautiful and on point,
but I also listened to history, and I also have
to study who are the forces that are attacking who,

(02:59:49):
who are the forces that are supporting who. At the
end of the day, I can make an intelligent decision
on who's going to help me and my people, and
history have shown us very well who that might likely be.
And sometimes they came from other races, and I accept that.

(03:00:10):
But I'm not going to just be impressed by rhetoric
because I've seen that too often and it hasn't panned
out right.

Speaker 2 (03:00:17):
We're racially clockey. I want to get you a chance
to because we're one of the things to define spirituality,
Professor Small other things you wanted to talk to us about,
what is spirituality reality?

Speaker 7 (03:00:29):
African tradition were not based on religion, and I don't
know a single African culsey has had a religion except
what we call religion being the tools of spirituality. African
spirituality is based on an understanding of ecology and cosmology
and understanding of the world in the universe we live
in and how it works and how we work in

(03:00:50):
harmony with it. Now, the teaching tools they use, the
Oreesias and lowers. These are tools just like A, B
and C and D and two and to be a
tools in math and writing and so and trying to
get you to understand a phenomena of function. They've created
instruments that they use in the archon. They call these

(03:01:12):
describing quantum physics. Ort of forces of quantum physics they
call obassoon and the eurobird. They call the the elements
of physics and they understand it. And the elements of
nature they call them risha and the voodoo they call
them lowers, but they're very some the same thing. These

(03:01:34):
are forces in nature, polms in nature that we've been
able to discern. These are elements of nature and laws
of nature we've been able to understand over a period
of time of replication, replication, replication of the same cycling.
And so we live our life so that that pattern
of cosmology and ecology that is normal and natural for

(03:01:55):
everything else in nature, from the bumblebeet to the bird
to the fish, is also normal in that for the
human being. And we use what we call culture to
reinforce and continue to teach an understanding of how the
world works. That's Africa's spirituality in a nutshell. Everything else

(03:02:15):
is this hocus pocus. And we don't need no black
hocus pocus, no more than we needed Judeo Christian Islamic
hocus pocus.

Speaker 2 (03:02:24):
And the difference between religion.

Speaker 7 (03:02:25):
Then religion should be a tool of spirituality, something that
help you explain and implement the greater and larger ideas
of concept. But religion has been reduced to these status
qull of your relationship to divinity, and it can't show
that in any shape, form or fashion. All the religion

(03:02:47):
in the world didn't stop the slave trade. All the
religion in the world did not stop Hitler committing the Holocaust.
All the religion in the world did not stop the
Native Americans from being slaughted. So you can stay in,
call in this God or whatever you call it, and
all you want while you're being raped, pillage, blundered, and
dumped into the earth, and that's just foolishness once you

(03:03:07):
have one generation to look at it. What was that
our people were doing. It was saying, create the character
and a human being based on truth, justice, righteous is
hominy and balance so that you do not have these
things occurring. Create a society that's based on principle, concepts
and ideas of human survival and that human destruction. And

(03:03:33):
the way you do that is to imitate the perfected
systems that exists, and that is cosmology and ecology. The
ecology that we live in is balance, is harmonious. The
only corruption is our ignorance and our abuse of it.
Us poisoning the water, poisoning the earth, poisoning the air.

(03:03:54):
We are the corruption out of ignorance and greed and
want for power that have harmed and damaged the natural
environment that the world wants to function as. African spirituality
was to accept that natural environmental reality as their daily reality.

(03:04:15):
Culture is nothing but the tools in which you use
to explain all of this intergenerationally and to maintain and
all of it knowledge of it in a living generation.

Speaker 2 (03:04:27):
All right, I'm going to cut it down, Professor Small,
are you going to be discussing this on Saturday.

Speaker 7 (03:04:31):
Oh absolutely, people need to come out, hang out and
be with us this weekend. As we you know at
eLife Restaurant, it's called the Awakening from start to six pm.
And the subtitles of the time for Africans and the

(03:04:52):
DA sport is now. The telephone number is three h
one three two four six nine hundred and it's on
Central lab and on Capital Heights, ninety fifty three Central Avenue,
Capital Heights. And we're going to cover spirituality. We're going
to look at pan Aficanism. We're going to talk about
the economic politics and culture of now. Because you cannot

(03:05:15):
accept me separate your pan Aficanism from your economic politics
and culture of now. You cannot separate your spirituality from
your economic politics and culture of now.

Speaker 2 (03:05:27):
You know, let me just tell you. And people said, please,
thank God and the ancestors for doctor Small. Please give
him my love and respects. I'll see him Saturday, Asante.
Please tell him how much we appreciate him. And this
is some of the tweets I'm getting from some of
the folks where you hit Professor Small, see you.

Speaker 7 (03:05:48):
I'm just getting back from Africa, so I'm on a
spiritual high. And I was lucky and blessed to take
two of my grandchildren one fifteen and eighteen so that
they can be knew themselves and to watch them babies
in one week just grow with amazing and all of
the other children. We had about thirty children under thirty.

(03:06:11):
On thirty young people under thirty. I mean, what was amazing?
Car We had a group of young people out of
Detroit that a ninety one year old African woman Paige,
to send fifteen children on that trip.

Speaker 5 (03:06:25):
Her church.

Speaker 2 (03:06:27):
Wow, amazing, and that's changing them for life.

Speaker 7 (03:06:31):
This is a lot of life and beautiful group of
young people you want to be with anywhere.

Speaker 2 (03:06:36):
Right, it's a life changing, Professor Small, thank you, Thank
you for the work you do. We'll see us Saturday,
and thank you for all that you do for us,
all the information you shared with us this morning.

Speaker 5 (03:06:46):
I try hard.

Speaker 7 (03:06:47):
I'm not always absolutely right, but I try never to
fall away from the black side. I'd rather go clean
my house than run into somebody else house looking for comfort.

Speaker 2 (03:07:00):
The same God says he'll see you Saturday as well.
Here's one of sending those salutations for you. If you
use a small all right family, we're done for the day.
Classes dismissed. Stay strong, stay positive, please stay healthy. We'll
see you tomorrow morning, six o'clock right here in Baltimore
on ten ten w LB and in the d m
V on the FM ninety five point nine and AM
fourteen fifty WL. The information is power

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Professor James Small Explores Pan-Africanism and Spirituality in an Exclusive Classroom Session

Episode Transcript

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Professor James Small Explores Pan-Africanism and Spirituality in an Exclusive Classroom Session

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