August 25, 2025 • 32 mins
An "all clear" has been issued at the University of South Carolina following reports of a potential shooting. President Trump has nominated four judges for federal courts in North Carolina. The state’s highest court has ruled that bar owners may proceed with lawsuits against Governor Stein over COVID-era shutdowns. Meanwhile, the Department of Public Instruction has unveiled a 5-year plan for public education, though critics are questioning its details. In Winston-Salem/Forsyth County, schools are facing a dire $46 million budget shortfall.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
It's five oh five, a good Monday morning to you,
and welcome into the Carolina Journal, News Hour, News Talk eleven,
ten ninety nine three WBT. I'm Nicked Craig. Good morning
to you. Well just south of the border, The University
of South Carolina has issued an all clear after the
school warned of reports of an active shooter on campus
Sunday evening, fortunately, campus officials pointing out that there was
(00:32):
no ongoing situation unfolding. However, earlier in the evening, the
school ordered students and staff at its Columbia campus to
shelter in place, saying that an active shooter had been
reported near the Thomas Cooper Library. The school said that
the library would remain closed, despite the fact that no
shooting took place. That original initial alert went out just
(00:55):
after six point thirty yesterday evening, warning people to avoid
the area, to evacuate or barricade if necessary, with officials
later reporting that there was no evidence of an active
shooter on the campus, with police on scene searching of
the affected building. Video circulated online showing a person walking
(01:16):
towards a campus building while carrying a black object, which
some said appeared to be some sort of firearm, potentially
a long rifle. According to Scott Parrell, the Deputy Chief
of Police for the University of South Carolina, dispelled those rumors,
saying that that person was just carrying an umbrella. It
didn't take very long. About eight pm last night is
(01:38):
when the all clear was given, so about an hour
and a half between that original notice and the all
clear given by law enforcement there on the University of
South Carolina campus. Fortunately, no situation unfolding as was originally reported.
Any new or pertinent details will pass them along to
you right here on the Carolina Journal News Hour and
(02:00):
Donald Trump. Turning our attention to some other news this morning.
President Donald Trump has nominated four attorneys and judges to
fill vacancies on the federal district courts in North Carolina,
earning praise from the state's Republican senators. The White House
announced the nominations of Susan Rodriguez and Matt Orso for
(02:20):
the Western District of North Carolina, as well as David
Bragden and Lindsay Freeman for the Middle District. Under the
Senate blue slip rules, both senators from the state must
agree to the White House's nominees. In this case. All
four were recommended to the administration by our two Republican Senators,
(02:41):
Tom Tillis and Ted Budd, till saying in a statement, quote,
these four nominees are well qualified to fill these important
judicial vacancies in North Carolina, and I have confidence they
will serve our great state with distinction. Important to note
that Senator Tillis is on the Senate Judiciary Committee and
(03:02):
has worked with the and worked with the White House
in the process of selecting those candidates. Senator Ted Budd
described the selections as quote inspired choices, saying that the
nominees quote will fill critical vacancies here in North Carolina
with exceptional jurists who will serve our nation with distinction.
(03:22):
Here's some of the background on those four nominees. Susan
Rodriguez currently serves as a US magistrate judge in the
Western District of North Carolina. Before that position, she was
a partner at McGuire Woods LP, where she co led
the firm's financial institution industry team. Matt Orso is a
partner at Troutman Pepper Locke of the law firm. Earlier
(03:45):
in his career, he clucked clerk for judge Robert Conrad
Junior of the U S District of Western North Carolina,
so some work already there in the Western District. David
Bragden serves as an Appellate chief for the US Attorney's Office.
His career includes a clerkship with Supreme Court Justice Clarence
Thomas and service as Justice Department's Resident Legal Advisor in
(04:09):
the Philippines. And finally, Lindsay Freeman is an assistant US Attorney.
She previously clerked on the United States Court of Appeals
for the Sixth Circuit and worked at some other law firms,
as well as holding senior positions within the Justice Department.
President Trump saying of Freeman in a truth Social post
last week quote, she is tough and smart, with degrees
(04:31):
from UPenn Law School at Harvard, and knows what is
required to protect our constitutional rights. Trump's nominations reflect his
broader strategy to appoint more constitutionalist judges who will be
aggressive and who share the judicial philosophies of Supreme Court
Justices Sam Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas. In his first
(04:53):
term in the White House, the President appointed two hundred
and thirty four total judges. During his second term, he
he could surpass the record set by Ronald Reagan, who
made a whopping three hundred and eighty three judicial appointments
during his term in the Oval Office. In the closing
days of the Joe Biden administration, there was a surge
(05:14):
and an effort around judicial nominees as Democrats worked to
secure more seats on federal benches. Ultimately, Biden did surpass
Trump's appointment by one just by one additional appointment three
hundred and thirty five. Biden notably set some additional records
(05:34):
as it related to some of his nominations to the court.
Following the twenty twenty four elections and Biden's loss to Trump,
Tillis blocked Biden's efforts to fill the vacancies on North
Carolina's federal bench on his way out of the White
House and before Republicans gained control of the Senate in
the in January of this year. The standoff stemmed from
(05:57):
Tillis's and Bud's objection to Biden's handling of the fourth
US Circuit Appellate Court nominee at the time. The nominations
for North Carolina's Middle and western districts will now head
to the Senate Judiciary Committee, where both Tillis and Bud
are expected to play key roles in moving them forward.
(06:17):
The Middle and Western districts, like many across the country,
have faced increasing case loads while awaiting permanent appointments, Senator
Ted Budd saying in a press release quote, ensuring a
principled constitutionalist judges are confirmed to the federal courts is
a privilege and responsibility I take very seriously. As part
(06:39):
of the Senate's role in this process, I worked to
thoroughly review the potential nominees and make recommendations to the President,
highlighting individuals who will uphold our constitution. This also comes
with some other news over the past few weeks out
of the Eastern District of North Carolina, where the President,
(07:00):
as well as other folks across the country in North Carolina,
I should say, have made recommendations to the Eastern District Court,
which is important to note one of the largest in
the United States. We reported a few weeks ago that
Attorney Ellis Boyle was installed as the new US Attorney
for the Eastern District of North Carolina, which is one
(07:23):
of the busiest of federal prosecutorial offices anywhere in the
country with that of the Eastern District covers forty four
counties in North Carolina. The state only has one hundred
counties total, so you're talking about forty four percent of
North Carolina counties being covered in the Eastern District. He
takes over and replaces Michael Easley Junior, who stepped down
(07:46):
earlier this year after more than three years in the role.
This is a relatively common practice as new presidents of
different political parties get into office, they do have the
authority and the ability to go through the of appointing
new judges. You saw Trump do it in the first administration,
Biden doing it when he took office, and now President
(08:07):
Donald Trump doing it again in his second term. We'll
have some additional details on this story, including the names
in the backgrounds of some of these individuals, over on
our website Carolina Journal dot com. The headline story Trump
nominates four judges for federal courts in North Carolina. It's
(08:31):
five twenty good Monday morning to you. Welcome back to
the Carolina Journal News Hour, Newstock eleven, ten ninety nine
three WBT. Don't forget if you miss any portion of
our show, you can listen to it or watch it
after the fact by checking out our Carolina Journal News
Hour podcast. It's available in Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
anywhere you get your shows. Search for the Carolina Journal
(08:52):
News Hour, tap the subscribe or follow button, and you'll
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You can also watch live or on demand by visiting
our Carolina Journal YouTube channel as well. All those links
are over on our website, Carolina Journal dot com. Back
in twenty twenty, during the heat of the COVID nineteen pandemic,
(09:13):
there were a lot of decisions made by governments all
across the world, really dealing with a variety of issues.
Here in North Carolina, the restaurant in bar sector was
hit particularly hard. There's been an ongoing legal battle for
multiple years in the state of North Carolina. We've got
some pretty big breaking news this morning to walk us
through at Mitch Kokai with the John Locke Foundation joins
us on the Carolina Journal News Hour. Mitch for bar
(09:35):
owners across North Carolina. I guess this is a decision
that they've hoped. It has been a long time coming.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yes, And actually one of the interesting things about this
is that they really get back to the starting line
of where their case started. You remember, Nick, and the
listening audience will remember that in twenty twenty, as COVID
was really striking the state, most businesses shut down and
the government forced most business this is, to shut down.
(10:01):
But as time went on, businesses were allowed to reopen.
Restaurants and bars were forced to shut down. Restaurants reopened
more quickly. Some bars were allowed to reopen while others
could not, and a lot of bars, even when they
could reopen, had restrictions on them. And so after the
initial heat of the COVID shutdowns and as time went on,
(10:26):
two different groups of bars sued the governor at that time,
Governor Roy Cooper, saying that the shutdowns violated their constitutional rights.
Now these cases have worked their way all the way
to the State Supreme Court, and last October the Supreme
Court heard arguments in both of the cases, and then
on Friday, the court issued its ruling in both cases,
(10:50):
two separate decisions written by two different justices, but basically
the same result, saying that in both cases the bar
owners do have right to move forward with their constitutional
claims against the government under the provision of the State
Constitution called fruits of their own or fruits of your
(11:11):
own labor, basically our state constitution guaranteeing us the right
to the enjoyment of the fruits of our own labor,
meaning basically that the government shouldn't stop you from doing
your job unless there's a really compelling reason. Now, in
coming to this decision, there are some interesting twists. It
(11:32):
was five to two, so the Republicans were in favor
of this on the State Supreme Court, while the two
Democrats were not. They dissented. In one case it was
the majority opinion was written by Chief Justice Paul Newby.
In the other case, the opinion was written by Justice
Phil Berger Junior. And then the two Democrats traded off
(11:52):
on who was going to dissent Anita Earl's descendant in
one case Alison Riggs and the other and then they
joined each other's descents. But basically, the idea is that
the government cannot basically brush off a lawsuit when there
is a constitutional claim on violation of violating the fruits
(12:12):
of your own labor clause of the State Constitution. This
doesn't mean the bars are going to end up winning.
Doesn't mean the bars are going to end up collecting
any money from state government, but it basically means they
do have the right to go in front of a
trial judge and try to make the case that their
rights were violated and that they should collect money. So
this is far from over, but it is a big
(12:35):
win for the bar owners in the sense that the
state government couldn't come along and just say, no, we
did this to help public health and safety. You have
no case and your case should be dismissed.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Mitch. It's kind of hard to go back and remember
what was going on during twenty twenty. It was a
long time ago, and there were a lot of moving
pieces that the field goal post constantly shifting back and
forth on everything. But one of the major things I
remember when this lawsuit was getting kicked off and from
some of the individuals that are part of these lawsuits.
And as you mentioned in the open restaurants were able
(13:10):
to reopen pretty quickly, albeit with limited to capacity, maybe
some outdoor dining, not as many people inside, with some restrictions.
But as the months and days went on through COVID
nineteen and through twenty twenty, a lot of bars were
essentially shuttered almost permanently. Some of them no longer in
business because they continued to have to pay their ABC
(13:30):
license and all of the other costs associated with operating
their business. The restaurant next door was open, but because
the bar didn't serve food, they were almost permanently closed.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's right. One of the arguments that was made in
both of these cases is disparate treatment. That some bars
were allowed to reopen if they were in a restaurant
or if they were in some sort of country club setting,
but that private bars had to remain closed, and even
when they were allowed to reopen, the restrictions were such
that they couldn't actually make a living. One of the
(14:03):
Supreme Court opinions made reference to the fact that the
trial court record showed that restrictions on bars lasted for
four hundred days or so, so well over a year,
well beyond the point that most people were getting back
to work, and deciding that COVID nineteen, while still a concern,
was certainly not something that should stop them from doing
(14:24):
their jobs and stop them from doing things out in
the public. So that is going to be one of
the arguments as this goes forward in a trial court level,
assuming that it does, assuming that there isn't some sort
of settlement that the bar owners will argue, Look, we
were treated differently and in a way that violated our rights.
(14:45):
If every business had had to face the same sort
of restriction, or if every business that served alcohol had
faced the same sort of restriction, there would probably be
a weaker case for the bar owners. But they argue
that what was done to them was different than what
was done to other businesses that basically face the same
(15:07):
sort of situation and same sort of circumstances, and that's
going to be one of the parts of the argument.
I think from a constitutional perspective, the biggest piece of
this is that the State Supreme Court is really putting
a lot of weight behind this provision in the state
Constitution that says that you have a constitutional right in
North Carolina to the enjoyment of the fruits of your
(15:29):
own labor, and if the government is going to restrict
that right, it really needs to have a great justification
for doing so. It can't just say we think this
is a good idea and it's reasonable, and so you
can't sue. You really have to have a legitimate, compelling
reason to violate someone's economic rights.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
We'll continue the conversation with Mitch Koki from the John
Locke Foundation. Coming up after this. You're listening to the
Carolina Journal News Hour. It's five thirty five. Welcome back
to the Carolina Journal News Our Newstock eleven ten ninety
nine three WVT, turning our attention to some statewide news
(16:11):
this morning. The North Carolina Department of Public Instruction unveiled
a new comprehensive five year strategic plan last week aimed
at improving the state's public education system. The plan received
approval from the State Board of Elections back on August
the fourteenth, and introduced specific measurable goals for the school
(16:33):
years in twenty six, at twenty seven, and all the
way through twenty thirty. The plan was developed with input
from thousands of educators, parents, students, and community members gathered
through Superintendent Mogreen's MO wants to Know a listening tour.
According to a statement from DPI, it outlines eight key
(16:54):
pillars to guide reforms, including preparing students for post secondary pathways,
supporting educators in strengthening community involvement. According to moe Green,
he says, quote, this plan is both a commitment and
a call to action. To prepare each student for their
next phase in life, to evaluate and revere our educators,
(17:17):
to strengthen family and community partnerships, and to ensure that
our schools are safe, healthy and inclusive spaces for all.
The plan sets forth that several target metrics designed to
evaluate progress towards the initiatives set forward. A couple of
them include getting a four year graduation rate of ninety
(17:37):
two percent it's currently out of eighty six point nine,
an average ACT score of twenty currently at eighteen point five,
thirty percent participation in Advanced Placement or AP courses among
high school students, increasing that from where it stands right
now at twenty one and a half percent, forty one percent,
(17:57):
engagement in career and Technical educations those are CTE programs
where that metric currently sits at thirty six percent, eighty
nine percent of school age children enrolled in public schools
that's at eighty four right now, and some additional objectives
including increased participation in character education, leading a Southeastern states
(18:20):
in educator compensation, and achieving national recognition in both reading
and math scores. So here's really how it breaks down.
The eight pillars of action include preparing students for subsequent
education or careers, Recognizing and supporting educators, Enhancing community and
family support, Ensuring safe and healthy school environments, improving operational
(18:44):
efficiency within schools, leading systematic changes in education, recognizing excellence
across public education, and finally, engaging stakeholders to fully support
and invest in schools. During the event launching the plan
last week, Moe Green, a Democrat, said that the goal
(19:05):
is by twenty thirty to have the very best public
education system in the entire nation, saying, quote, we are
going to lead in the nation in the way that
we talk about our educators. We revere our educators. This
is the highest word. This is a higher word than respect.
We revere those who make all of this learning possible.
(19:26):
Governor Josh Stein, also a Democrat, issued a statement supporting
the plan, with him noting that North Carolina's public schools
serve approximately one and a half million students and said
that the plan quote sets a bold and ambitious vision
for our schools to be the very best in the nation. However,
critics are raising questions about accountability and emphasis and emphasis
(19:50):
within the plan. Doctor Bob Lupke, the Center for Effective
Education at the John Locke foundation question the focus on
academic achievement. Telling the Carolina Journal quote, if we are
to glean the guts of this plan from the eight pillars,
I'm not encouraged. Where is the emphasis on academic excellence?
(20:11):
The topic is not even specifically mentioned in any of
the eight pillars. Another plan to make North Carolina the
best in the nation is not news. Yes, it's laudable
to aim high. My question where is the accountability for
past plans and past failures? Has the State Board of
Education or the North Carolina Department of Public Instruction paid
(20:35):
a price for missing goals? A plan for correcting those
oversights might be a good place to start. You can
read some additional details this morning, including the eight pillars
of action, which are drawing some criticism from some folks,
including Bob Lupke and others across the education sector, as
well as some of the metrics designed to evaluate some
(20:57):
of the progress in this plan moving forward. All of
that is available over on our website Carolina Journal dot com.
That story's headline, NCDPI releases five year plan for public education,
but critics have questions. Again, you can read those additional
details over on our website, Carolina Journal dot com. It's
(21:18):
now five point forty you're listening to the Carolina Journal
News Hour. A very interesting story we're following this morning,
bar owners back during the COVID nineteen pandemic suing former
Democrat Governor Roy Cooper and the State of North Carolina
overclaims that their businesses were unjustly shut down by the
State of North Carolina. Continuing that conversation this morning with
(21:39):
Mitch Koki from the John Locke Foundation, as you noted,
what this may actually be the start of all of
this going on, this legal challenge moving forward, even though
we're looking at something that at this point is in
some cases more than five years in the rearview mirror
right now. Did you gain anything else reading through the
different majority or dissenting opinions on this, anything else that
(21:59):
you pick doubt that you thought was interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, one thing that was interesting in one of these
cases is that there were other claims that were made
and basically the Supreme Court unanimously through them out, things
like equal protection and laws being violated, or that there
was a claim under the Emergency Management Act for some
sort of damages and one set of bar owners was
trying to get some information under the Public Records Act. Basically,
(22:26):
the Supreme Court got threw all that out, but did
say this fruits of your own labor clause is something
that can be a hook for a lawsuit. Now in
the descent, one of the things that I believe it
was justice Anita Earles wrote was that she was concerned
that the Court is really turning this fruits of your
own labor clause into some sort of judicial weapon, that
(22:49):
it was going to be something that would allow the
courts to step in and second guess the political branches
on issues that deal with economic rights. My guess is
among those who have been pushing for protection of economic rights,
they'll say, yes, that's true, and it's a good thing
that the court should step in when governments are doing
(23:10):
something that hurt economic rights and ensure that the government
is not overstepping its authority and is allowing people to
enjoy their economic rights to as great a degree as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So as we watch this potentially unfold, it will probably
take months, if not years again to get more of
these details figured out what exactly would be the next
step for the two different groups in this case that
got the big win from the North Carolina Supreme Court
on Friday.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Well, both of these cases will eventually get back to
a trial judge. They're going to have to go to
the Court of Appeals first, and the Court of Appeals
has to respond to what the Supreme Court said. But
then that means that they get sent back or remanded
officially to trial court, and then you would go through
the whole process of going through discovery and people taking
(24:00):
witnesses and gathering evidence, and then you'd go through a trial.
Which is why I think that one possibility is that
there ends up being some sort of settlement. If the
government thinks, you know, it's not worth it for us
to go through this for a long time, and we
could reach some sort of settlement agreement, they might try
to do that, or that decision might be made for
(24:20):
the bar owners too. I mean, they've been at this
now for as you said, five years. They might decide
that some sort of settlement with the state might be
a better option than continuing through a trial. Though I
know that there are some who would definitely like to
see this play out as far as possible, so that
there would be some sort of determination that what was
done during COVID was too much of a violation of
(24:44):
people's rights, and that would help set a standard so
that the next time we have some sort of health
related emergency, that government would think twice about some sort
of shutdown that's really going to block people from doing
their jobs.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, those judicial stance as are incredibly important, especially for
things unforeseen that could happen in the future. Mitch, I
know you've been following this case for quite some time.
We appreciate the details. This morning. You can read some
additional coverage over on our website Carolina Journal dot com.
Mitch Koki from the John Locke Foundation joins us on
the Carolina Journal News Hour. Good Dannett's five point fifty
(25:25):
Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour. The University
of South Carolina issued an all clear notice last night
after the school warned of reports of an active shooter
on the campus Sunday evening, campus officials noting that fortunately,
there was no ongoing emergency. However, that's not what it
seemed like around six point thirty yesterday, when the school
(25:46):
ordered students and staff at its Columbia University campus to
shelter in place, saying that an active shooter had been reported.
It near the Thomas Cooper Library. The school said that
the library would remain closed at least through the rest
of the day yesterday. That alert went out just after
six point thirty last night, warning people to avoid the
(26:07):
area and to evacuate or barricade themselves if necessary. Just
a short while later, officials noted that there was no
evidence of an active shooter, even though with the alert
noting that police were actively searching the affected buildings. Video
circulated on social media of a person walking towards a
(26:27):
campus building while carrying a black object, which some in
the video set appeared to be a some sort of firearm,
potentially a long rifle. Scott Prill, the Deputy chief of
Police for the University of South Carolina, dispelled that rumor,
saying that the person was just carrying an umbrella. That
all clear notice was given around eight pm, so about
(26:48):
an hour and a half window between the alert going
out and police in the school officials giving that all
clear notice. Fortunately, no active event taking place, but it
did make some national news last week night. That's why
we're passing along to you this morning. On the Carolina
Journal News Hour. In some North Carolina news this morning,
a report from the Office of the State Auditor shows
(27:10):
a dire financial situation for the Winston Salem Forthsyth County
School District. Concerns submitted through the Auditor's tip line led
to an investigation that revealed an estimated forty six million
dollar budget deficit for the fiscal year twenty twenty five.
State Auditor Dave Bolock noting in the report quote, Winston
(27:32):
Salem Forthsyth County Schools dug itself into a deep financial hole,
and it's going to take real discipline to climb out
of it. Our schools need to be focused on teaching students.
That becomes a lot more difficult when you're staring down
at a forty six million dollar budget deficit. By shining
a bright light on these specific problems, it is our
(27:54):
hope that a sense of urgency will develop in Winston
Salem and the Forsyth County School District. To write this
ship in a hurry. The report uncovered multiple issues, including
the use of one time COVID funds to cover ongoing
expenses like employees salaries, as well as failure to adjust
(28:14):
staffing levels despite a declining student population, and generally overall
financial mismanagement. Education funding four Public schools in North Carolina
are largely determined by per pupil spending, meaning the amount
of money a district receives is closely tied and tied
(28:35):
directly to the number of students enrolled. Enrollment changes, such
as population growth, decline, or shifts to private or charter schools,
is a major factor in shaping a district's budget and
the resources that they have available. Since twenty eighteen, the
district's student enrollment has fallen by more than three thousand students,
(28:57):
yet the number of full time equivalent in employees has
increased by two hundred and forty five. The report reads,
in part, the school district appears to have proportionately reduced
staffing as a result of declining enrollment through fiscal year
twenty twenty two, but that practice has not persisted. Specifically,
(29:18):
the number of full time employees added since twenty twenty
two does not reflect the general decline of student enrollment
that occurred in the district. Some of the other issues
noted in the audit is that the district routinely bypassed
its budget limits, according to the OSA report, using an
override function to approve three hundred and eight purchase orders
(29:41):
that exceeded account budgets between July one, twenty twenty four
and May ninth of twenty twenty five. While policy required
the CFO to approve these overrides and the Board of
Education to adjust budgets accordingly, the district only made timely
budget adjustments in already three of the three hundred and
(30:02):
eleven cases, leaving two hundred and seventy eight instances where
overspending was not corrected in a timely manner. The uncorrected
overrides left accounts inaccurate, reducing budget clarity and contributing it
to the ongoing deficit. Superintendent Caddie Moore responded to the report,
(30:22):
acknowledging that the district must accept responsibility for its actions,
writing in a letter to State Auditor Dave Bullick and
the Auditor's office quote, we appreciate the time and effort
taken by the Auditor's Office in reviewing our financial records
and providing recommendations for how we can continue to improve
(30:43):
our processes and procedures. The Winston Salem Forsyth County Schools
accepts responsibility for its current financial situation and acknowledges the
difficult path forward in restoring the financial health of the district.
We are committed to transparency, accountability, and to rebuild the
public's trust by showing good stewardship of public dollars. Other
(31:08):
highlights in the report include more than seventy five million
dollars in bonuses given out as the school district overspent
its annual revenue during fiscal year twenty two and twenty three,
problems with reconciliation of budgeted and actual revenue, as well
as expenditures in a timely manner, misusing suspense accounts meant
(31:30):
to hold transactions until proper clarification, and that the wait
count or the Winston Salem Forsyth County School District was
not fully reviewing all active contracts when creating the system's
annual budget. All of that combined, all of that added up,
leads them to where they are this morning, an estimated
forty six million dollar budget deficit for the fiscal year
(31:53):
twenty twenty five. That full audit report is available this
morning over on our website Carolina a Journal dot com.
We've also got some links and some additional quotes from
the Auditor's office as well as they produce this report
and the response from the school district, Well that's going
to do it. For a Monday edition of the Carolina
(32:14):
Journal News Hour, WBT News is next followed by Good
Morning BT. We're back with you tomorrow morning, five to six,
right here on Newstalk eleven, ten and ninety nine three
WBT
It's five oh five, a good Monday morning to you,
and welcome into the Carolina Journal, News Hour, News Talk eleven,
ten ninety nine three WBT. I'm Nicked Craig. Good morning
to you. Well just south of the border, The University
of South Carolina has issued an all clear after the
school warned of reports of an active shooter on campus
Sunday evening, fortunately, campus officials pointing out that there was
(00:32):
no ongoing situation unfolding. However, earlier in the evening, the
school ordered students and staff at its Columbia campus to
shelter in place, saying that an active shooter had been
reported near the Thomas Cooper Library. The school said that
the library would remain closed, despite the fact that no
shooting took place. That original initial alert went out just
(00:55):
after six point thirty yesterday evening, warning people to avoid
the area, to evacuate or barricade if necessary, with officials
later reporting that there was no evidence of an active
shooter on the campus, with police on scene searching of
the affected building. Video circulated online showing a person walking
(01:16):
towards a campus building while carrying a black object, which
some said appeared to be some sort of firearm, potentially
a long rifle. According to Scott Parrell, the Deputy Chief
of Police for the University of South Carolina, dispelled those rumors,
saying that that person was just carrying an umbrella. It
didn't take very long. About eight pm last night is
(01:38):
when the all clear was given, so about an hour
and a half between that original notice and the all
clear given by law enforcement there on the University of
South Carolina campus. Fortunately, no situation unfolding as was originally reported.
Any new or pertinent details will pass them along to
you right here on the Carolina Journal News Hour and
(02:00):
Donald Trump. Turning our attention to some other news this morning.
President Donald Trump has nominated four attorneys and judges to
fill vacancies on the federal district courts in North Carolina,
earning praise from the state's Republican senators. The White House
announced the nominations of Susan Rodriguez and Matt Orso for
(02:20):
the Western District of North Carolina, as well as David
Bragden and Lindsay Freeman for the Middle District. Under the
Senate blue slip rules, both senators from the state must
agree to the White House's nominees. In this case. All
four were recommended to the administration by our two Republican Senators,
(02:41):
Tom Tillis and Ted Budd, till saying in a statement, quote,
these four nominees are well qualified to fill these important
judicial vacancies in North Carolina, and I have confidence they
will serve our great state with distinction. Important to note
that Senator Tillis is on the Senate Judiciary Committee and
(03:02):
has worked with the and worked with the White House
in the process of selecting those candidates. Senator Ted Budd
described the selections as quote inspired choices, saying that the
nominees quote will fill critical vacancies here in North Carolina
with exceptional jurists who will serve our nation with distinction.
(03:22):
Here's some of the background on those four nominees. Susan
Rodriguez currently serves as a US magistrate judge in the
Western District of North Carolina. Before that position, she was
a partner at McGuire Woods LP, where she co led
the firm's financial institution industry team. Matt Orso is a
partner at Troutman Pepper Locke of the law firm. Earlier
(03:45):
in his career, he clucked clerk for judge Robert Conrad
Junior of the U S District of Western North Carolina,
so some work already there in the Western District. David
Bragden serves as an Appellate chief for the US Attorney's Office.
His career includes a clerkship with Supreme Court Justice Clarence
Thomas and service as Justice Department's Resident Legal Advisor in
(04:09):
the Philippines. And finally, Lindsay Freeman is an assistant US Attorney.
She previously clerked on the United States Court of Appeals
for the Sixth Circuit and worked at some other law firms,
as well as holding senior positions within the Justice Department.
President Trump saying of Freeman in a truth Social post
last week quote, she is tough and smart, with degrees
(04:31):
from UPenn Law School at Harvard, and knows what is
required to protect our constitutional rights. Trump's nominations reflect his
broader strategy to appoint more constitutionalist judges who will be
aggressive and who share the judicial philosophies of Supreme Court
Justices Sam Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas. In his first
(04:53):
term in the White House, the President appointed two hundred
and thirty four total judges. During his second term, he
he could surpass the record set by Ronald Reagan, who
made a whopping three hundred and eighty three judicial appointments
during his term in the Oval Office. In the closing
days of the Joe Biden administration, there was a surge
(05:14):
and an effort around judicial nominees as Democrats worked to
secure more seats on federal benches. Ultimately, Biden did surpass
Trump's appointment by one just by one additional appointment three
hundred and thirty five. Biden notably set some additional records
(05:34):
as it related to some of his nominations to the court.
Following the twenty twenty four elections and Biden's loss to Trump,
Tillis blocked Biden's efforts to fill the vacancies on North
Carolina's federal bench on his way out of the White
House and before Republicans gained control of the Senate in
the in January of this year. The standoff stemmed from
(05:57):
Tillis's and Bud's objection to Biden's handling of the fourth
US Circuit Appellate Court nominee at the time. The nominations
for North Carolina's Middle and western districts will now head
to the Senate Judiciary Committee, where both Tillis and Bud
are expected to play key roles in moving them forward.
(06:17):
The Middle and Western districts, like many across the country,
have faced increasing case loads while awaiting permanent appointments, Senator
Ted Budd saying in a press release quote, ensuring a
principled constitutionalist judges are confirmed to the federal courts is
a privilege and responsibility I take very seriously. As part
(06:39):
of the Senate's role in this process, I worked to
thoroughly review the potential nominees and make recommendations to the President,
highlighting individuals who will uphold our constitution. This also comes
with some other news over the past few weeks out
of the Eastern District of North Carolina, where the President,
(07:00):
as well as other folks across the country in North Carolina,
I should say, have made recommendations to the Eastern District Court,
which is important to note one of the largest in
the United States. We reported a few weeks ago that
Attorney Ellis Boyle was installed as the new US Attorney
for the Eastern District of North Carolina, which is one
(07:23):
of the busiest of federal prosecutorial offices anywhere in the
country with that of the Eastern District covers forty four
counties in North Carolina. The state only has one hundred
counties total, so you're talking about forty four percent of
North Carolina counties being covered in the Eastern District. He
takes over and replaces Michael Easley Junior, who stepped down
(07:46):
earlier this year after more than three years in the role.
This is a relatively common practice as new presidents of
different political parties get into office, they do have the
authority and the ability to go through the of appointing
new judges. You saw Trump do it in the first administration,
Biden doing it when he took office, and now President
(08:07):
Donald Trump doing it again in his second term. We'll
have some additional details on this story, including the names
in the backgrounds of some of these individuals, over on
our website Carolina Journal dot com. The headline story Trump
nominates four judges for federal courts in North Carolina. It's
(08:31):
five twenty good Monday morning to you. Welcome back to
the Carolina Journal News Hour, Newstock eleven, ten ninety nine
three WBT. Don't forget if you miss any portion of
our show, you can listen to it or watch it
after the fact by checking out our Carolina Journal News
Hour podcast. It's available in Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
anywhere you get your shows. Search for the Carolina Journal
(08:52):
News Hour, tap the subscribe or follow button, and you'll
get a new program delivered each and every weekday morning.
You can also watch live or on demand by visiting
our Carolina Journal YouTube channel as well. All those links
are over on our website, Carolina Journal dot com. Back
in twenty twenty, during the heat of the COVID nineteen pandemic,
(09:13):
there were a lot of decisions made by governments all
across the world, really dealing with a variety of issues.
Here in North Carolina, the restaurant in bar sector was
hit particularly hard. There's been an ongoing legal battle for
multiple years in the state of North Carolina. We've got
some pretty big breaking news this morning to walk us
through at Mitch Kokai with the John Locke Foundation joins
us on the Carolina Journal News Hour. Mitch for bar
(09:35):
owners across North Carolina. I guess this is a decision
that they've hoped. It has been a long time coming.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yes, And actually one of the interesting things about this
is that they really get back to the starting line
of where their case started. You remember, Nick, and the
listening audience will remember that in twenty twenty, as COVID
was really striking the state, most businesses shut down and
the government forced most business this is, to shut down.
(10:01):
But as time went on, businesses were allowed to reopen.
Restaurants and bars were forced to shut down. Restaurants reopened
more quickly. Some bars were allowed to reopen while others
could not, and a lot of bars, even when they
could reopen, had restrictions on them. And so after the
initial heat of the COVID shutdowns and as time went on,
(10:26):
two different groups of bars sued the governor at that time,
Governor Roy Cooper, saying that the shutdowns violated their constitutional rights.
Now these cases have worked their way all the way
to the State Supreme Court, and last October the Supreme
Court heard arguments in both of the cases, and then
on Friday, the court issued its ruling in both cases,
(10:50):
two separate decisions written by two different justices, but basically
the same result, saying that in both cases the bar
owners do have right to move forward with their constitutional
claims against the government under the provision of the State
Constitution called fruits of their own or fruits of your
(11:11):
own labor, basically our state constitution guaranteeing us the right
to the enjoyment of the fruits of our own labor,
meaning basically that the government shouldn't stop you from doing
your job unless there's a really compelling reason. Now, in
coming to this decision, there are some interesting twists. It
(11:32):
was five to two, so the Republicans were in favor
of this on the State Supreme Court, while the two
Democrats were not. They dissented. In one case it was
the majority opinion was written by Chief Justice Paul Newby.
In the other case, the opinion was written by Justice
Phil Berger Junior. And then the two Democrats traded off
(11:52):
on who was going to dissent Anita Earl's descendant in
one case Alison Riggs and the other and then they
joined each other's descents. But basically, the idea is that
the government cannot basically brush off a lawsuit when there
is a constitutional claim on violation of violating the fruits
(12:12):
of your own labor clause of the State Constitution. This
doesn't mean the bars are going to end up winning.
Doesn't mean the bars are going to end up collecting
any money from state government, but it basically means they
do have the right to go in front of a
trial judge and try to make the case that their
rights were violated and that they should collect money. So
this is far from over, but it is a big
(12:35):
win for the bar owners in the sense that the
state government couldn't come along and just say, no, we
did this to help public health and safety. You have
no case and your case should be dismissed.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Mitch. It's kind of hard to go back and remember
what was going on during twenty twenty. It was a
long time ago, and there were a lot of moving
pieces that the field goal post constantly shifting back and
forth on everything. But one of the major things I
remember when this lawsuit was getting kicked off and from
some of the individuals that are part of these lawsuits.
And as you mentioned in the open restaurants were able
(13:10):
to reopen pretty quickly, albeit with limited to capacity, maybe
some outdoor dining, not as many people inside, with some restrictions.
But as the months and days went on through COVID
nineteen and through twenty twenty, a lot of bars were
essentially shuttered almost permanently. Some of them no longer in
business because they continued to have to pay their ABC
(13:30):
license and all of the other costs associated with operating
their business. The restaurant next door was open, but because
the bar didn't serve food, they were almost permanently closed.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's right. One of the arguments that was made in
both of these cases is disparate treatment. That some bars
were allowed to reopen if they were in a restaurant
or if they were in some sort of country club setting,
but that private bars had to remain closed, and even
when they were allowed to reopen, the restrictions were such
that they couldn't actually make a living. One of the
(14:03):
Supreme Court opinions made reference to the fact that the
trial court record showed that restrictions on bars lasted for
four hundred days or so, so well over a year,
well beyond the point that most people were getting back
to work, and deciding that COVID nineteen, while still a concern,
was certainly not something that should stop them from doing
(14:24):
their jobs and stop them from doing things out in
the public. So that is going to be one of
the arguments as this goes forward in a trial court level,
assuming that it does, assuming that there isn't some sort
of settlement that the bar owners will argue, Look, we
were treated differently and in a way that violated our rights.
(14:45):
If every business had had to face the same sort
of restriction, or if every business that served alcohol had
faced the same sort of restriction, there would probably be
a weaker case for the bar owners. But they argue
that what was done to them was different than what
was done to other businesses that basically face the same
(15:07):
sort of situation and same sort of circumstances, and that's
going to be one of the parts of the argument.
I think from a constitutional perspective, the biggest piece of
this is that the State Supreme Court is really putting
a lot of weight behind this provision in the state
Constitution that says that you have a constitutional right in
North Carolina to the enjoyment of the fruits of your
(15:29):
own labor, and if the government is going to restrict
that right, it really needs to have a great justification
for doing so. It can't just say we think this
is a good idea and it's reasonable, and so you
can't sue. You really have to have a legitimate, compelling
reason to violate someone's economic rights.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
We'll continue the conversation with Mitch Koki from the John
Locke Foundation. Coming up after this. You're listening to the
Carolina Journal News Hour. It's five thirty five. Welcome back
to the Carolina Journal News Our Newstock eleven ten ninety
nine three WVT, turning our attention to some statewide news
(16:11):
this morning. The North Carolina Department of Public Instruction unveiled
a new comprehensive five year strategic plan last week aimed
at improving the state's public education system. The plan received
approval from the State Board of Elections back on August
the fourteenth, and introduced specific measurable goals for the school
(16:33):
years in twenty six, at twenty seven, and all the
way through twenty thirty. The plan was developed with input
from thousands of educators, parents, students, and community members gathered
through Superintendent Mogreen's MO wants to Know a listening tour.
According to a statement from DPI, it outlines eight key
(16:54):
pillars to guide reforms, including preparing students for post secondary pathways,
supporting educators in strengthening community involvement. According to moe Green,
he says, quote, this plan is both a commitment and
a call to action. To prepare each student for their
next phase in life, to evaluate and revere our educators,
(17:17):
to strengthen family and community partnerships, and to ensure that
our schools are safe, healthy and inclusive spaces for all.
The plan sets forth that several target metrics designed to
evaluate progress towards the initiatives set forward. A couple of
them include getting a four year graduation rate of ninety
(17:37):
two percent it's currently out of eighty six point nine,
an average ACT score of twenty currently at eighteen point five,
thirty percent participation in Advanced Placement or AP courses among
high school students, increasing that from where it stands right
now at twenty one and a half percent, forty one percent,
(17:57):
engagement in career and Technical educations those are CTE programs
where that metric currently sits at thirty six percent, eighty
nine percent of school age children enrolled in public schools
that's at eighty four right now, and some additional objectives
including increased participation in character education, leading a Southeastern states
(18:20):
in educator compensation, and achieving national recognition in both reading
and math scores. So here's really how it breaks down.
The eight pillars of action include preparing students for subsequent
education or careers, Recognizing and supporting educators, Enhancing community and
family support, Ensuring safe and healthy school environments, improving operational
(18:44):
efficiency within schools, leading systematic changes in education, recognizing excellence
across public education, and finally, engaging stakeholders to fully support
and invest in schools. During the event launching the plan
last week, Moe Green, a Democrat, said that the goal
(19:05):
is by twenty thirty to have the very best public
education system in the entire nation, saying, quote, we are
going to lead in the nation in the way that
we talk about our educators. We revere our educators. This
is the highest word. This is a higher word than respect.
We revere those who make all of this learning possible.
(19:26):
Governor Josh Stein, also a Democrat, issued a statement supporting
the plan, with him noting that North Carolina's public schools
serve approximately one and a half million students and said
that the plan quote sets a bold and ambitious vision
for our schools to be the very best in the nation. However,
critics are raising questions about accountability and emphasis and emphasis
(19:50):
within the plan. Doctor Bob Lupke, the Center for Effective
Education at the John Locke foundation question the focus on
academic achievement. Telling the Carolina Journal quote, if we are
to glean the guts of this plan from the eight pillars,
I'm not encouraged. Where is the emphasis on academic excellence?
(20:11):
The topic is not even specifically mentioned in any of
the eight pillars. Another plan to make North Carolina the
best in the nation is not news. Yes, it's laudable
to aim high. My question where is the accountability for
past plans and past failures? Has the State Board of
Education or the North Carolina Department of Public Instruction paid
(20:35):
a price for missing goals? A plan for correcting those
oversights might be a good place to start. You can
read some additional details this morning, including the eight pillars
of action, which are drawing some criticism from some folks,
including Bob Lupke and others across the education sector, as
well as some of the metrics designed to evaluate some
(20:57):
of the progress in this plan moving forward. All of
that is available over on our website Carolina Journal dot com.
That story's headline, NCDPI releases five year plan for public education,
but critics have questions. Again, you can read those additional
details over on our website, Carolina Journal dot com. It's
(21:18):
now five point forty you're listening to the Carolina Journal
News Hour. A very interesting story we're following this morning,
bar owners back during the COVID nineteen pandemic suing former
Democrat Governor Roy Cooper and the State of North Carolina
overclaims that their businesses were unjustly shut down by the
State of North Carolina. Continuing that conversation this morning with
(21:39):
Mitch Koki from the John Locke Foundation, as you noted,
what this may actually be the start of all of
this going on, this legal challenge moving forward, even though
we're looking at something that at this point is in
some cases more than five years in the rearview mirror
right now. Did you gain anything else reading through the
different majority or dissenting opinions on this, anything else that
(21:59):
you pick doubt that you thought was interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, one thing that was interesting in one of these
cases is that there were other claims that were made
and basically the Supreme Court unanimously through them out, things
like equal protection and laws being violated, or that there
was a claim under the Emergency Management Act for some
sort of damages and one set of bar owners was
trying to get some information under the Public Records Act. Basically,
(22:26):
the Supreme Court got threw all that out, but did
say this fruits of your own labor clause is something
that can be a hook for a lawsuit. Now in
the descent, one of the things that I believe it
was justice Anita Earles wrote was that she was concerned
that the Court is really turning this fruits of your
own labor clause into some sort of judicial weapon, that
(22:49):
it was going to be something that would allow the
courts to step in and second guess the political branches
on issues that deal with economic rights. My guess is
among those who have been pushing for protection of economic rights,
they'll say, yes, that's true, and it's a good thing
that the court should step in when governments are doing
(23:10):
something that hurt economic rights and ensure that the government
is not overstepping its authority and is allowing people to
enjoy their economic rights to as great a degree as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So as we watch this potentially unfold, it will probably
take months, if not years again to get more of
these details figured out what exactly would be the next
step for the two different groups in this case that
got the big win from the North Carolina Supreme Court
on Friday.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Well, both of these cases will eventually get back to
a trial judge. They're going to have to go to
the Court of Appeals first, and the Court of Appeals
has to respond to what the Supreme Court said. But
then that means that they get sent back or remanded
officially to trial court, and then you would go through
the whole process of going through discovery and people taking
(24:00):
witnesses and gathering evidence, and then you'd go through a trial.
Which is why I think that one possibility is that
there ends up being some sort of settlement. If the
government thinks, you know, it's not worth it for us
to go through this for a long time, and we
could reach some sort of settlement agreement, they might try
to do that, or that decision might be made for
(24:20):
the bar owners too. I mean, they've been at this
now for as you said, five years. They might decide
that some sort of settlement with the state might be
a better option than continuing through a trial. Though I
know that there are some who would definitely like to
see this play out as far as possible, so that
there would be some sort of determination that what was
done during COVID was too much of a violation of
(24:44):
people's rights, and that would help set a standard so
that the next time we have some sort of health
related emergency, that government would think twice about some sort
of shutdown that's really going to block people from doing
their jobs.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, those judicial stance as are incredibly important, especially for
things unforeseen that could happen in the future. Mitch, I
know you've been following this case for quite some time.
We appreciate the details. This morning. You can read some
additional coverage over on our website Carolina Journal dot com.
Mitch Koki from the John Locke Foundation joins us on
the Carolina Journal News Hour. Good Dannett's five point fifty
(25:25):
Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour. The University
of South Carolina issued an all clear notice last night
after the school warned of reports of an active shooter
on the campus Sunday evening, campus officials noting that fortunately,
there was no ongoing emergency. However, that's not what it
seemed like around six point thirty yesterday, when the school
(25:46):
ordered students and staff at its Columbia University campus to
shelter in place, saying that an active shooter had been reported.
It near the Thomas Cooper Library. The school said that
the library would remain closed at least through the rest
of the day yesterday. That alert went out just after
six point thirty last night, warning people to avoid the
(26:07):
area and to evacuate or barricade themselves if necessary. Just
a short while later, officials noted that there was no
evidence of an active shooter, even though with the alert
noting that police were actively searching the affected buildings. Video
circulated on social media of a person walking towards a
(26:27):
campus building while carrying a black object, which some in
the video set appeared to be a some sort of firearm,
potentially a long rifle. Scott Prill, the Deputy chief of
Police for the University of South Carolina, dispelled that rumor,
saying that the person was just carrying an umbrella. That
all clear notice was given around eight pm, so about
(26:48):
an hour and a half window between the alert going
out and police in the school officials giving that all
clear notice. Fortunately, no active event taking place, but it
did make some national news last week night. That's why
we're passing along to you this morning. On the Carolina
Journal News Hour. In some North Carolina news this morning,
a report from the Office of the State Auditor shows
(27:10):
a dire financial situation for the Winston Salem Forthsyth County
School District. Concerns submitted through the Auditor's tip line led
to an investigation that revealed an estimated forty six million
dollar budget deficit for the fiscal year twenty twenty five.
State Auditor Dave Bolock noting in the report quote, Winston
(27:32):
Salem Forthsyth County Schools dug itself into a deep financial hole,
and it's going to take real discipline to climb out
of it. Our schools need to be focused on teaching students.
That becomes a lot more difficult when you're staring down
at a forty six million dollar budget deficit. By shining
a bright light on these specific problems, it is our
(27:54):
hope that a sense of urgency will develop in Winston
Salem and the Forsyth County School District. To write this
ship in a hurry. The report uncovered multiple issues, including
the use of one time COVID funds to cover ongoing
expenses like employees salaries, as well as failure to adjust
(28:14):
staffing levels despite a declining student population, and generally overall
financial mismanagement. Education funding four Public schools in North Carolina
are largely determined by per pupil spending, meaning the amount
of money a district receives is closely tied and tied
(28:35):
directly to the number of students enrolled. Enrollment changes, such
as population growth, decline, or shifts to private or charter schools,
is a major factor in shaping a district's budget and
the resources that they have available. Since twenty eighteen, the
district's student enrollment has fallen by more than three thousand students,
(28:57):
yet the number of full time equivalent in employees has
increased by two hundred and forty five. The report reads,
in part, the school district appears to have proportionately reduced
staffing as a result of declining enrollment through fiscal year
twenty twenty two, but that practice has not persisted. Specifically,
(29:18):
the number of full time employees added since twenty twenty
two does not reflect the general decline of student enrollment
that occurred in the district. Some of the other issues
noted in the audit is that the district routinely bypassed
its budget limits, according to the OSA report, using an
override function to approve three hundred and eight purchase orders
(29:41):
that exceeded account budgets between July one, twenty twenty four
and May ninth of twenty twenty five. While policy required
the CFO to approve these overrides and the Board of
Education to adjust budgets accordingly, the district only made timely
budget adjustments in already three of the three hundred and
(30:02):
eleven cases, leaving two hundred and seventy eight instances where
overspending was not corrected in a timely manner. The uncorrected
overrides left accounts inaccurate, reducing budget clarity and contributing it
to the ongoing deficit. Superintendent Caddie Moore responded to the report,
(30:22):
acknowledging that the district must accept responsibility for its actions,
writing in a letter to State Auditor Dave Bullick and
the Auditor's office quote, we appreciate the time and effort
taken by the Auditor's Office in reviewing our financial records
and providing recommendations for how we can continue to improve
(30:43):
our processes and procedures. The Winston Salem Forsyth County Schools
accepts responsibility for its current financial situation and acknowledges the
difficult path forward in restoring the financial health of the district.
We are committed to transparency, accountability, and to rebuild the
public's trust by showing good stewardship of public dollars. Other
(31:08):
highlights in the report include more than seventy five million
dollars in bonuses given out as the school district overspent
its annual revenue during fiscal year twenty two and twenty three,
problems with reconciliation of budgeted and actual revenue, as well
as expenditures in a timely manner, misusing suspense accounts meant
(31:30):
to hold transactions until proper clarification, and that the wait
count or the Winston Salem Forsyth County School District was
not fully reviewing all active contracts when creating the system's
annual budget. All of that combined, all of that added up,
leads them to where they are this morning, an estimated
forty six million dollar budget deficit for the fiscal year
(31:53):
twenty twenty five. That full audit report is available this
morning over on our website Carolina a Journal dot com.
We've also got some links and some additional quotes from
the Auditor's office as well as they produce this report
and the response from the school district, Well that's going
to do it. For a Monday edition of the Carolina
(32:14):
Journal News Hour, WBT News is next followed by Good
Morning BT. We're back with you tomorrow morning, five to six,
right here on Newstalk eleven, ten and ninety nine three
WBT
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