Most Downloaded - A Brother Lost, A Story Found - Zona Kelly and Diane Ball

Across the last 18 seasons of the Clink, We have had some really raw conversations. This is one of most listened to episodes with Zona Kelly and Diane Ball.

Sisters Zona Kelly and Diane Ball share the heartbreaking journey of finding their baby brother, Michael — lost for decades after his death in 1972. In this powerful conversation, they uncover shocking truths about his burial, the red tape they fought through and the enduring strength of their mother. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apoche production. We found out that where Michael was after
the death of another brother who died of a heart attack.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Another brother of yourself and dies.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, And of course through all the grief, I decided
to find Michael because Mum talked about Michael, but she
had no photos of Michael. She just described him and
said that we had a brother between Dawson and Annette,
our younger sister, and his name was Michael. So Michael

(00:51):
kind of like grew up with us, even though we
never saw a photo.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Of him or never knew he was spoken of.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yes, he was spoken of. And many many mothers when
they lost a child. In average or women, they don't
talk about their babies that they're lost. But with Mum,
it was part of her grieving that she made sure
that the other seven siblings were well aware of Michael.

(01:20):
After Dawson died in twenty and fourteen, I started looking
for Michael into early June in twenty fifteen, and I
found him at the biggest cemetery at Rookwood.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Let's just take a step back. For those that are
listening at the moment, it's only you. You must have
really had to do a lot of work to find
out where Michael was. It wasn't just a plain and
simple burial where he was, was it?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
No? Well, Mom used to call it Rockwood, and I
actually rang Rookwood and asked did they have a Michael
Kelly because Mum always said that he was in Kelly
and turned around. They said, yeah, we got an adult
Michael Kelly, but no child. So it just dawned on

(02:11):
me one day that he could be in her maiden
name of Nichols. Yes, and there it came up, and
I was that day I rang my mother to give
her the first message that I found Michael. And that
was a very day that we celebrated, so we knew
where he was. So then what happened in twenty and sixteen,

(02:36):
my brother Stephen, who's in between me and I, he
went down and they took him to a there was
a multiple grave of children with no headstones.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
A multiple grave of children, so yes, young babies so
basically had just been stuck on the top of each other.
That's discuss.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
It was just like a normal like park area, no
no headstones, nothing, And Steven took a bunch of flowers
and asked where Michael was and they said baby Nichols
is here. But you can't put the flowers on the grave.
You have to put the flowers in the tree because

(03:23):
there's another baby buried on top.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
And now let's just put this in perspective. There is
no relation either far enough. You see family vaults where
you know, families are buried on top of each other
or what have you. But this is a young Indigenous
man that was taken from his country, Kempsy Dungutee country
in a time where if I can be very honest,

(03:49):
and you know, we've just had an amazing First Nations
woman with a powerful stir of Marie Barbaric and she
was from exactly Kempsey and she was, you know, the
last of the stolen generation. That being said, there was
a lot of politics around indiding his children, wasn't there
at this period of the seventies that was very controversial

(04:13):
that the government today still have a lot to answer
for as far as I'm concerned, and your mob must
be seeking answers as well.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
How was that?

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Well as the journey went through, after Steven found out
there was a it was a multiple grave, he rang
my mother? Who rang me? And I said no, Mum,
Michael's in a single grave, but he's in the Catholic side.
So I rang up Rookwood, and Rookwood I said, can

(04:44):
there be a plaque or anything put there until we
can get the money to exoom Michael and take him
home to Armadale. But they turned around and said, I'm sorry,
but there's a seventy year old man buried on top
of your brother in nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yes, a seventy year old man buried on top of
Michael in a paupers grape a row.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
But so is there identification of this seventy year old
man being buried? There is there a plark or something
to commemorate the passing of him? Yes, And here's your
your young brother underneath.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
This, underneath the seventy year old homeless man.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Well, look, I get that seven year old homeless man.
That happens, but I don't understand how they have the
hide to sit there and put anybody on top of it.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
It gets better, it gets better.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh, please go for it, because this is something that
needs to be heard.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
And when Diane, I'll let Diane talk because she was
the one that got the burial deed. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Oh that was a mission like everything too was When
you say it was a mission, die was it? Mainly
because everything you've been covered up, like you know, from
the governor's point of view, have been able to get
any information.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
It was more like red tape. Every door that we
tried to get through, it was like slammed. We didn't
have no support. And when we we had to get
permission of you know, Rockwood to go to another agency

(06:34):
to access you know, like information about our brother was
just unbelievable. Just to the access what information that we needed
to get me and Zona, we we bounce off each other.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
I can see that where this all I was just
for those that for those that are listening at the moment,
I'm looking at two wonderful sisters here, and just the
energy from them both is very powerful. And I've got
to say, you know, like just in the short moment
we've had this chatting and then we've got a lot
more to get through yet, but I can see that
there's a very strong connection between the both of you,

(07:11):
and I think that that is starting to give me
a bit of a picture of what your mob's all about,
and you know, the fight in you and your family.
I can see that already.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
So it was a long, hard journey. Took a lot
of our energy. Yeah, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
For all the red tape that we went through, I
have the belief that there's more to the story.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
So basically that didn't define us. So we kept going
and going until we found what we needed and then
going back to the actual records of a cemetery. They
had no records. It was just only Michael's name, father unknown,

(07:59):
funeral director unknown. It really crucified us.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
How is your mom feeling? You know through this stage.
Mom's still alive today, is she?

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yes, she is pretty much. On our journey through this,
we had to hold certain things back because of her health.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Be traumatic for her to relive too, wouldn't me?

Speaker 3 (08:22):
And Zona, we were exposed to the full force of
it emotionally, you know, mentally being told you know, and
seeing information that you wouldn't wish you know, how could
they get it wrong? You know, you got one hundred
and one questions of how could they get it wrong?
It was a new single grave, but they were saying

(08:46):
that it was a multiple grave. Then you get the
records to clarify that that it was a you know,
a new single grave that to us, he wasn't a pauper,
you know. And you think, as a mother today, to
think of my mum, of everything that she went through,

(09:06):
of you know, not saying her last goodbyes to our
baby brother, not holding him, you know, seeing him. It
crucifies a mother. And to go through that, to relive
that journey, it was very emotional and very hard,