November 13, 2025 • 10 mins
Across the last 18 seasons of the Clink, We have had some really raw conversations. This is one of most listened to episodes with Waka Tither.
in this gripping first installment of Waka Tither’s story, we hear about Waka's desire to be a part of "moungrel mob" and how his life took a dramatic turn when he was incarcerated, a period that became the crucible for his incredible transformation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Approche production.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well for me, brother, you know, I understand.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You know, everyone has a journey, everyone has a story,
and I've just had the opportunity to share mine. And
this is another opportunity for me to share mine.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
You know, some some guys journeys and stories are more
hard out than others. But you know, we've all had
our own battles and certain areas. And in life, I
had an awesome upbringing, bro, you know, awesome mom and
dead food in the cupboards, heaps of love from mom. Yeah,
a warm beard, So I had. I had a good
upbringing in that sense. But I would say, you know, yeah,
(00:48):
the game, the game influence was very strong. It's it's
very strong, all my uncles and the mob.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So you know a lot of.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
People have have older people, you know, people that they
look up to, you know, people that they look up to,
rugby players, you know, actors and things like that. Well,
the guys we looked up to Mob members. Yeah, well,
you know, I'll be honest, I don'd look up to
my older brothers. And that you my older brothers looked
up to as well. Was we're mob members.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
You you talk, we talk among all mob I just
want to sort of put a diet a bit of
a perspective on it, because a lot of people don't
seem to understand the dire dynamics of community and growth
within the community in certain gang areas. How how was
that growing up within that, Like, you know that you're
(01:37):
looking up to mob brothers as you're grading older and
as a young person, you know, but yet you have
so many other gangs.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Around you in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
How is that as an influence to want to actually
stick one hundred percent as a mob?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, I guess I guess if I look back, was
at a young age where I really you know, I
actually found that desire or had that desire to you
want to be like that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Do you want to.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Be a mob? That's what I look at. That's what
looked attractive to me. So much love in that space
as well, you know, so much. Yeah, there's love and
that space, brother, and it's it's a love that.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You know, you have your.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Family love, but then you have their love. You have
that other type of love where it's like in a
heart out space. You know, we had our things go on,
but there's all they love there. You know, there's their
care and there's their love. Yeah, it look cool in me,
abro It look cool, look cool when you know, seeing
the petch and driving the V eight and the.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Cars and and.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Giving money to the kids, you know, and things like
that and asking you know, how are you and you
know what he's doing. Just things like that and really
made you like, oh, fow that that big scary guy.
You know, he cares about me and just things like that.
So was at a young age where I actually found that,
where I found their love for the Mob. And and
like I mean to be honest, it's more that dominates
(03:03):
and Widal it's it's it's small that dominates there. And
it's all my uncles are in the Mob, you know,
pretty much all.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
The Mob and Witer. We're all related, we're all found.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
When we talk about we'll call it a district, all right,
an area. So what is what is the sort of space?
How many kilometers would it be? Or you know, how
big is the community or the town that is predominantly
Mob affiliated or connected.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
You know, I'd say I'd say ninety percent of wide
as Mob.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But then you have.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So you have the wide Old district which also has
you know, other little country places around it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So you have like you have.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Roepunger, you have Maha New Hakker, and then you have
Fraser Town, you know, and where Ropunger and Fraser Town
there the one hundred percent black power.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Wow, they they're they're they're they're yeah, black power dominated
in those two.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's the only small places, but they're black pilt dominated.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
But we all, you know, we all fuck a Papa.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
We all fuck pupa from the same lines, you know,
along the lines our ancestors and ancestors, we're all intertwined
to each other. Brother, I think we're probably about fourth
generation in the Mod four generation more, you know what
I mean. In the game four, we're like the fourth generation.
So you got you got me, then you've got my
(04:33):
uncle's and then you've got like a generation before them.
So we're probably about third fourth year, third fourth generation.
But then you got my you got the generation after
us that are coming up deep in it as well,
so they'll be like the fourth generation, if that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
That's some deep bloodlines there.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
And I think when you put that in perspective, and
why I want to really sort of give this a
little bit of a chat at the moment, is because
I want people to get a real clear perspective from
someone who knows, because we all assume we will do
and none of us live there and live a life
like Australia is very very different to any other country,
you know. And we talk about gang life, we talk
(05:10):
about crews and outlaw motorcycle clubs and all this sort
of stuff. Yeah, okay, we get the postcard wars here
and the young blokes out there, foreign knives and each
other and all this sort of stuff over but that
to me doesn't That's that's just silly stuff. When you
talk in generational gang connections, that's pretty hardcore. That's lockdown,
(05:31):
you know what I mean. That is like you say
that this is our district, that is their district. How
is it though, and you just spoke that you're all
related in some way, But yet there's massive history there,
especially in those two gangs, of history that goes so
far back within the New Zealand culture and structure where
(05:51):
a lot of brothers have lost their lives, a lot
of brothers. Have you served a lot of jail time
and still do to the day. You, of all people,
have experienced that yourself and understand exactly what that's like
and we'll talk about that shortly. But you know, I
think people need to truly understand because they don't see
it from a generational point of view. You know, we
(06:13):
look at it and think, oh, okay, And as an
ex gang member myself of half my life and I'm
forty eight, I totally understand all the love of the
brotherhood and camaraderie and that family united feeling, and it's
avoid It is avoid once you step away from it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't care who you are. If you've lived it right, then.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
It's always missed. But there's a lot of things there
that you way up and you look at once you
start becoming a family man and you want to truly
live your life to your fullest, and doesn't always work
out that gang life is going to come with you
on that journey. But we wouldn't be where we are
today having this conversation had we had not walked in
these paths. I want people to understand how hard is
(06:53):
it growing up as a generational future member to be
able to break away from that and even decide as
a young person that nah, I'm not coming with your cousin.
I'm not going there, or being pulled safe for able
to the next district in into the black power scene
and you know then you've got your fune who over here.
That's all mongol mob. I mean, how does that go down?
How how does it go within? You guys seeing each
(07:15):
other on the street.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So you know they're they are they are there. I
know brothers that have you know, that's all they know.
You know, I know brothers that didn't get that upbringing
that I did. They're they're loving home, they're loving parents,
they're provided. And I know brothers that didn't have that.
You know, mongol mob was all they knew and that's
all they know to the state. So their passion and
their love is so strong and it's so deep.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
You know. Where for me I.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Saught a it was something I wanted to be a brother.
I did have the opportunity to sort sort of see
other things in life. It was something I wanted to be,
you know, I wanted to be a part of them all.
I wanted to wear a pitch. Even though at times
in my life I had opportunities to see other things,
I still always had their desire insigned me to to
be a mobster. Yeah, and when it comes to like
(08:02):
anything could anything could go off Abra and white or
it's a place where anything could go off. And that's
why the the fighting, the rivalry has been so strong
because it's our place where at any time where you
could just be going to the dairy and then being it's.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
All on what could do you find though that do
you guys sort of crossover paths and go into black
powers sort of district and they come into yours or
unless that there is something that needs to be discussed
or business or what have you just keep out of
each other's sort of areas or you know, how does
it work there? Or will you I guess we will
understand the politics once it's gang life and all this
(08:37):
sort of stuff, and it can kick off exactly as
you say, from you know, some bad words.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
If that was done there is.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Like a.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
There are things that are put in place that can prevent,
you know, prevent those things from kicking off.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But then you have a younger generation.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That ain't too aware of those those things that have
been put in place where sometimes it can start down
here and then it builds up to the older ones,
and then you know, it's the older ones that are
cleaning things up, you know, not everyone, not everyone sees
that there are things put in place sort of a
basic one as you know, don't don't we all don't.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We all colors in our area, We won't wear our
colors in your area, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
But you know they can't always be met abra and
so sometimes that's where things really kick off.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
That's where things really kick off.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And then you've gotta you gotta remember sometimes these parties
and alcohol and all that stuff gets involved, so values
and that go straight up the door, you know, the
chest comes out in any things break out.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
We are at a stage, you know, brother.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
We're we're we're finding ways to where we can you know,
keep our communities safe and keep our communities away from
having to see those sort of things.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I must say she had a stage where, sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Especially at a stage where we want to you know,
we don't want people going to jail. We don't want
our tamiliki and our families missing out on on you know,
on life. What they're dead because of things that have
happened and they've gone to jail. So we do have
awesome people in spaces that are creating mutual the say,
by the mutual respect then and in a way I'll
(10:11):
be honest with you, brother.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I love for the day.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Were as see unity amongst us all. If you asked
me this question three years ago, no way, no way, bro.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Oh yeah, and I was ready to Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I was ready to get a wark.
Approche production.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well for me, brother, you know, I understand.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You know, everyone has a journey, everyone has a story,
and I've just had the opportunity to share mine. And
this is another opportunity for me to share mine.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
You know, some some guys journeys and stories are more
hard out than others. But you know, we've all had
our own battles and certain areas. And in life, I
had an awesome upbringing, bro, you know, awesome mom and
dead food in the cupboards, heaps of love from mom. Yeah,
a warm beard, So I had. I had a good
upbringing in that sense. But I would say, you know, yeah,
(00:48):
the game, the game influence was very strong. It's it's
very strong, all my uncles and the mob.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So you know a lot of.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
People have have older people, you know, people that they
look up to, you know, people that they look up to,
rugby players, you know, actors and things like that. Well,
the guys we looked up to Mob members. Yeah, well,
you know, I'll be honest, I don'd look up to
my older brothers. And that you my older brothers looked
up to as well. Was we're mob members.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
You you talk, we talk among all mob I just
want to sort of put a diet a bit of
a perspective on it, because a lot of people don't
seem to understand the dire dynamics of community and growth
within the community in certain gang areas. How how was
that growing up within that, Like, you know that you're
(01:37):
looking up to mob brothers as you're grading older and
as a young person, you know, but yet you have
so many other gangs.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Around you in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
How is that as an influence to want to actually
stick one hundred percent as a mob?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, I guess I guess if I look back, was
at a young age where I really you know, I
actually found that desire or had that desire to you
want to be like that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Do you want to.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Be a mob? That's what I look at. That's what
looked attractive to me. So much love in that space
as well, you know, so much. Yeah, there's love and
that space, brother, and it's it's a love that.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You know, you have your.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Family love, but then you have their love. You have
that other type of love where it's like in a
heart out space. You know, we had our things go on,
but there's all they love there. You know, there's their
care and there's their love. Yeah, it look cool in me,
abro It look cool, look cool when you know, seeing
the petch and driving the V eight and the.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Cars and and.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Giving money to the kids, you know, and things like
that and asking you know, how are you and you
know what he's doing. Just things like that and really
made you like, oh, fow that that big scary guy.
You know, he cares about me and just things like that.
So was at a young age where I actually found that,
where I found their love for the Mob. And and
like I mean to be honest, it's more that dominates
(03:03):
and Widal it's it's it's small that dominates there. And
it's all my uncles are in the Mob, you know,
pretty much all.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
The Mob and Witer. We're all related, we're all found.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
When we talk about we'll call it a district, all right,
an area. So what is what is the sort of space?
How many kilometers would it be? Or you know, how
big is the community or the town that is predominantly
Mob affiliated or connected.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
You know, I'd say I'd say ninety percent of wide
as Mob.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But then you have.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So you have the wide Old district which also has
you know, other little country places around it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So you have like you have.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Roepunger, you have Maha New Hakker, and then you have
Fraser Town, you know, and where Ropunger and Fraser Town
there the one hundred percent black power.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Wow, they they're they're they're they're yeah, black power dominated
in those two.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's the only small places, but they're black pilt dominated.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
But we all, you know, we all fuck a Papa.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
We all fuck pupa from the same lines, you know,
along the lines our ancestors and ancestors, we're all intertwined
to each other. Brother, I think we're probably about fourth
generation in the Mod four generation more, you know what
I mean. In the game four, we're like the fourth generation.
So you got you got me, then you've got my
(04:33):
uncle's and then you've got like a generation before them.
So we're probably about third fourth year, third fourth generation.
But then you got my you got the generation after
us that are coming up deep in it as well,
so they'll be like the fourth generation, if that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
That's some deep bloodlines there.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
And I think when you put that in perspective, and
why I want to really sort of give this a
little bit of a chat at the moment, is because
I want people to get a real clear perspective from
someone who knows, because we all assume we will do
and none of us live there and live a life
like Australia is very very different to any other country,
you know. And we talk about gang life, we talk
(05:10):
about crews and outlaw motorcycle clubs and all this sort
of stuff. Yeah, okay, we get the postcard wars here
and the young blokes out there, foreign knives and each
other and all this sort of stuff over but that
to me doesn't That's that's just silly stuff. When you
talk in generational gang connections, that's pretty hardcore. That's lockdown,
(05:31):
you know what I mean. That is like you say
that this is our district, that is their district. How
is it though, and you just spoke that you're all
related in some way, But yet there's massive history there,
especially in those two gangs, of history that goes so
far back within the New Zealand culture and structure where
(05:51):
a lot of brothers have lost their lives, a lot
of brothers. Have you served a lot of jail time
and still do to the day. You, of all people,
have experienced that yourself and understand exactly what that's like
and we'll talk about that shortly. But you know, I
think people need to truly understand because they don't see
it from a generational point of view. You know, we
(06:13):
look at it and think, oh, okay, And as an
ex gang member myself of half my life and I'm
forty eight, I totally understand all the love of the
brotherhood and camaraderie and that family united feeling, and it's
avoid It is avoid once you step away from it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't care who you are. If you've lived it right, then.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
It's always missed. But there's a lot of things there
that you way up and you look at once you
start becoming a family man and you want to truly
live your life to your fullest, and doesn't always work
out that gang life is going to come with you
on that journey. But we wouldn't be where we are
today having this conversation had we had not walked in
these paths. I want people to understand how hard is
(06:53):
it growing up as a generational future member to be
able to break away from that and even decide as
a young person that nah, I'm not coming with your cousin.
I'm not going there, or being pulled safe for able
to the next district in into the black power scene
and you know then you've got your fune who over here.
That's all mongol mob. I mean, how does that go down?
How how does it go within? You guys seeing each
(07:15):
other on the street.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So you know they're they are they are there. I
know brothers that have you know, that's all they know.
You know, I know brothers that didn't get that upbringing
that I did. They're they're loving home, they're loving parents,
they're provided. And I know brothers that didn't have that.
You know, mongol mob was all they knew and that's
all they know to the state. So their passion and
their love is so strong and it's so deep.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
You know. Where for me I.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Saught a it was something I wanted to be a brother.
I did have the opportunity to sort sort of see
other things in life. It was something I wanted to be,
you know, I wanted to be a part of them all.
I wanted to wear a pitch. Even though at times
in my life I had opportunities to see other things,
I still always had their desire insigned me to to
be a mobster. Yeah, and when it comes to like
(08:02):
anything could anything could go off Abra and white or
it's a place where anything could go off. And that's
why the the fighting, the rivalry has been so strong
because it's our place where at any time where you
could just be going to the dairy and then being it's.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
All on what could do you find though that do
you guys sort of crossover paths and go into black
powers sort of district and they come into yours or
unless that there is something that needs to be discussed
or business or what have you just keep out of
each other's sort of areas or you know, how does
it work there? Or will you I guess we will
understand the politics once it's gang life and all this
(08:37):
sort of stuff, and it can kick off exactly as
you say, from you know, some bad words.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
If that was done there is.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Like a.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
There are things that are put in place that can prevent,
you know, prevent those things from kicking off.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But then you have a younger generation.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That ain't too aware of those those things that have
been put in place where sometimes it can start down
here and then it builds up to the older ones,
and then you know, it's the older ones that are
cleaning things up, you know, not everyone, not everyone sees
that there are things put in place sort of a
basic one as you know, don't don't we all don't.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We all colors in our area, We won't wear our
colors in your area, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
But you know they can't always be met abra and
so sometimes that's where things really kick off.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
That's where things really kick off.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And then you've gotta you gotta remember sometimes these parties
and alcohol and all that stuff gets involved, so values
and that go straight up the door, you know, the
chest comes out in any things break out.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
We are at a stage, you know, brother.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
We're we're we're finding ways to where we can you know,
keep our communities safe and keep our communities away from
having to see those sort of things.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I must say she had a stage where, sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Especially at a stage where we want to you know,
we don't want people going to jail. We don't want
our tamiliki and our families missing out on on you know,
on life. What they're dead because of things that have
happened and they've gone to jail. So we do have
awesome people in spaces that are creating mutual the say,
by the mutual respect then and in a way I'll
(10:11):
be honest with you, brother.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I love for the day.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Were as see unity amongst us all. If you asked
me this question three years ago, no way, no way, bro.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Oh yeah, and I was ready to Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I was ready to get a wark.
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