The Amend Movement: Breaking Cycles with Wa Watene

In this episode of The Clink, Brent sits down with Watene "Wa" Watene—founder of The Amend Movement and a man who has turned pain into purpose. From surviving childhood abuse and the violence of gang culture in New Zealand, to transforming his life through deep self-work, Wa shares a raw and honest account of his journey.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Approach a production for the record.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
I don't try and make you uncomfortable for the record.
You ain't trying to world down stuff for your for
the record, laugh on me going hard away for the record.
Ain't trying to link, No trying to waste for the record.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
For the record, for the for the record, for the
red for the record, record.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
For the record. I don't try and make you uncomfortable.
Welcome back to the Clink. What a fantastic episode one
was with Matt. I am just so grateful and honored.
This season is lining up to be the best, and
I can tell you now each guest is going to
bring something amazing to this podcast and everybody will be

(01:12):
able to take something from each journey. Today, I have
an amazing man. This man is doing huge things in
mental health, space, better lifestyles and living. He is a
wonderful man who has come not only from hitting rock
bottom to becoming someone amazing in this world, but he
is out the front leading in his space. His name

(01:34):
is wah and here is from a men's men's mental
health movement. Slap me in the face, brother, if I'm
wrong for saying that. That's perfect, brother. Welcome very pleasure
to be here, my brother, I can't help but be
a little bit nervous in your presence. This has been
a build up and I very rarely get uncomfortable, but

(01:55):
sometimes you get to get uncomfortable to be comfortable. You're
an amazing man. You really are. Been following your journey
now for quite some time. We have some mutual friends
and cans that I've been able to sort of learn
a bit about who you are. I actually believe we
cross paths quite a few years ago through some mutual
people and situations, and both our lives have definitely taken

(02:18):
different directions in a positive way. Thank you for making
the effort to come up from down the coast. Welcome
to the Clink.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
It's a pleasure to be here. And you mentioned we've
got some mutual friends. When those mutual friends mentioned your name,
just through my connection with him, I was like, yeah, absolutely,
And then watching your journey and how you speak about
it on social media, it's like I can't wait to
actually connect with the bro.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
So I really appreciate that. I try to keep things
pretty raw, pretty real. I don't like to sugarcoat anything,
and that doesn't always please everyone. Being vulnerable comes at
a cost sometimes, But as I say, you know, like
I'm not here for the clout and I'm not here
for the pats on the back. I have a life
that I've lived at forty nine years of age that

(03:00):
I'm blessed to be sitting here now having this conversation
with yourself. Less to be a father of four amazing
young children, blessed to be sitting just as a free man.
And I know that your journey is very much similar
in a lot of ways, your choices and the direction
that you've taken in your life. Let's give a bit

(03:21):
of context to wah and where it all began for
you and what it was like.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah, absolutely, I guess to give context to the people
that have listened that, and I've listened to another podcasts
that I've been on. You know, I grew up in
a home there was lots of violence. It was physical abuse,
it was sexual abuse, it was emotional abuse. You know,
there's many times that you know, our mum took us
out of that home and I thought, oh, this is
that we're safe now, and then to be taken back

(03:48):
into that home where there was again there was all
that stuff. I was like, hang on, we're not supposed
to be here. I heard you telling you and us,
so we're not going back again. So I lost trust
and all the adults that were supposed to keep us safe.
I promised myself, I said, I'm never going to live
this life when I'm an adult. I can't wait to
move out. And I moved out when I was fifteen
years old, and I promised myself that I wouldn't relive

(04:08):
all these childhood experiences, and unfortunately broth that's exactly what
I did. I really loved all the violence or the trauma,
and I actually started creating it myself, thankfully, you know,
with all my knowledge and the work that I've done
on myself. And I understand why. And that's why the
work that I do means so much to me, because
it doesn't matter. If you want change, you've actually got

(04:29):
to create change yourself. And it's not as easy as
some people might think.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
And if I may touch on a few things here
and please to you guys listening out there, something that
I always do is want to be conscious of the listener.
If you feel triggered, reach out if you need to
talk to somebody, Because our conversation here initially is going
to be quite deep. I'm a survivor of child's sexual
abuse and happy to talk openly about it. You mentioned

(04:57):
that that was within the safe space of your living
and upbringing as well. You touch on the choices traumas
as well, and for me, it took a lot to
be able to even talk about it. You know, you
yourself wore a mask for many, many years and was

(05:17):
this back in New Zealand.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, back so I grew up in New Zealand. I've
been living in Australia for seventeen years now. I've actually
got Australia tattooed on my leg. And my reason for
that is, you know, symbolized when my life changed, because
I moved from city to city in New Zealand, hoping
that I was running away from all that hurting, that pain.
But unfortunately, you know, I was just creating more hurt
and pain in the new city that I was going to. Yeah,

(05:39):
it was a new country, but there's a different energy
over here, there's a different mindset, and I realized that
quite quickly people didn't want to fight me. When people
didn't want to fight me, I had no resistance anymore.
So I only had myself to fight, and when I
was able to move there at resistance, I was then
started looking past the fight and go, fuck, what's actually
there and addressed all that hurt and that pain. So
all that stuff that I was talking about in my

(05:59):
earlier years of life happened back in New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
New Zealand. And I've done a lot of work with
some wonderful people over in New Zealand at the moment
that are working in this space, and they're bringing a
lot up you being a product of that environment and
those experiences. Only now, and I didn't only realize this
till recently, how large a percentage it was that the

(06:25):
abuse sexual assault within homes families was in New Zealand
per capita. It's the highest, I think in the world,
and quite me if I'm wrong, I believe it's up there,
isn't it.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
For Yeah, I don't know the exact statistics on that. However,
I do know it's high because there was a point
in time where I can't remember the exact year, but
it was every six and ten childs by the age
of eight has experienced sexual abuse.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
We don't have a choice when we're young. With that culture,
New Zealand is very well known for gang activity and
the generational role on effect father son, uncle, grandfather. I
mean goodness, there's members in certain crew over there that
are just so deeply embedded in the roots of family

(07:15):
that that's all they know. Was that something also a
part of and around your upbringing?

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, it was very familiar and very common. Bro. There
were petures at our house every single day. But I
still today feel safe in that environment.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
You do, don't you because it becomes just like I
have a thing where it doesn't matter where I go.
I'll always go into the depths of the worst places,
and I do it with a smile, comfortable, relaxed. I
feel more relaxed in those environments than what I do
walking through the main street of the city. My anxiety
through the roof. But I can be at peace in

(07:50):
these scary places where you shouldn't be.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
I resonate with that, bro. You know, We've been into
gang headquarters and work with fifty gang members all in
the same space. And I've also worked in schools where
I've worked with fifty school teachers. But I feel more
accepted in the space with the game members than I
do the teachers and it comes from my childhood because
that's what was more familiar to me. I still feel
more accepted there and I feel less than in this

(08:14):
other space, so that all that space is doing is
mirroring back parts of me that just needs a more
nurturing and love.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Do you feel that. I don't like to be labeled
as a productive in my environment, but I'm blessed and
grateful no matter what the traumas have been to have
experienced and lived in these type of worlds. For example, me,
I was within an indigenous community growing up what they
would call a mission. As a white fellow, I literally

(08:42):
had to fight to keep my volleys on my feet,
you know. And I had volleys because I had nothing,
you know. And then by the age of ten, I'm homeless,
living on the streets, vulnerable as a broken young child
who totally just torn apart. Everything is supposed to be
sacred taken from me. You just adapt, you survive. How
do you see that that's developed you to become the

(09:05):
man you are today from those moments in your life.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yeah, you know, in the past two years, I can
hand on my heart, you know, stand there and say
I love the person I am today, Like genuinely. All
parts of me and the person I am today required
every single experience that I've ever been through. So therefore
I'm grateful for all of them, including the really tough ones.
I look at all those experiences and say thank you,
and I look at an experience and say thank you,

(09:30):
and I guess we're find being logical sense to that.
When I'm connecting with people, most of the time, it's
from a place of experience, not from a place of
knowing like I understood I read it in a book. No, No,
I've been through that too, bro. So that gives me
a deeper connection to people. So therefore I'm able to
support them in a different way than other people might
be able to.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
I feel that that's a gift. You know, Jeremy Donovan
and I are another wonderful man. I'm not sure if
you know Jeremy. He's an Indigenous man who's just phenomenal
and amazing experience, the original Redfern, you know, city boy,
through the whole drug scene. He's been to, you know,
some of the most highest levels of government in the world,

(10:13):
to represent Australia and anyway, we went up to Townsville,
did some workshops for a week together and volunteered our
time and we directly went out into the community to
engage with these young people whom they say are troublesome.
You know, when we pulled it all apart, they're not
the problem. It's the structure, the parents, the leaders in

(10:35):
the community that are the problem because they're not going
back and asking how do we fix this? They're band
aiding everything and then blaming the government steps in and says, oh,
you know, it's somebody else's problem, and this is why
you're doing things that are making change, like in a
really large scale. And I mean that naturally you've started

(10:56):
off in a small but now you're international. How have
you seen and felt being in those environments where you
know that what you're bringing to the table, by the
time you walk out of that room, that you've had
such an impact that you are going to make a difference.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, it makes me feel really proud of myself. And
you know, to some people that might say, oh, it's
just he's proud of yourself. But when you talk about
that sentence, that's the sentence that I wanted to hear
from my dad as a child that I very rarely
have ever heard I'm meeting those unmet needs of that
little boy aka myself. So it feels fucking good.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
The beautiful thing is, I'm now connected to this work
because there was a time that I was actually attached
to it, going into these rooms and making such big impact.
I was attached to it like I needed it. And
when there was a long space in between workshops or programs,
I'd found myself lost, and I'd find myself in bed
and not wanting to get up out of bed, and
then the other opposite when I'm in the workshops all

(11:54):
the programs, but I'd lost connection with my children because
I was so focused on this and getting all the
attention and so proud of me, and they loved me
the things that I didn't get as a little boy.
So when I realized this, I get to take a
step back, and those things that are being met when
I'm in these rooms, I actually need to start meeting
those myself. And when I was able to, ah, I

(12:14):
lose the attachment now and I'm connected to the work
one I'm more powerful, but I don't need the work
anymore because I've got myself.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
And you touch on family, You're a proud family man.
You know, I always vowed to always have my wrongs
be my children's rights, and nothing sugarcoated in our house.
They know who their dad is. They know who their
dad was as in past history. And I'm blessed to

(12:41):
say that the four of my children are doing pretty
bloody good, all achieving some great things, and we have
open table conversations, and I love it because that was
something like yourself I'm sure never had the opportunity to do. Obviously,
with work, it's hard because we all have to put
food on the table and we need to be present

(13:01):
to be able to provide. But you talk about family,
I've realized after making the mistakes, making some bad choices,
learning to be a dad with my twenty six year old,
whom I rarely hear from. But I have four beautiful children,
but three that I'm actually physically present with, and I'm

(13:22):
a dad. I don't miss their sporting events. I have
this thing where all I ask of them is just
to be one percent better each day. That's it. I
don't want you to come home and tell me you
won the race. Just tell me you how to go
in the race. And if you can give me that
each day, that to me is growth. I didn't have that.
You didn't have that. No, how do you find being

(13:46):
dad and being that family?

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Man?

Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah? I love being a dad. I love being a grandfather.
Stop there, my granddaughter's a year and a half old.
God bless yeah a men, right, Well, how are you somewhere? Wow?

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Some I'm ten years older than yah, and you're already
your grandfather. Lord.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
Big family. Uh, I've got six so let there's six
of us. Yeah. And then I've got three children alone
and then a granddaughter. My oldest son's twenty one, my
daughter's twenty, and my son's seventeen. So my daughter's got
a daughter.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Wow. And all adults so adults able now to sit
like properly down and engage in had out conversations.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
Yeah, it was really interesting.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
I had a conversation with one of my bros. The
other day. I said, I'm so well versed in the
work now, and I understand myself so deeply that it's
embodied and it just happens automatically now. And now my
tensions too to my children because I remember, for the
most part of their life they had a dad who
didn't understand themselves. So through the non understanding of myself.
I projected all my patterns from that version of me
onto them, and I'm now having to sit and help

(14:50):
them understand what they're not understanding about themselves. That I
wasn't able to teach them and that part of my
life or part of being their father.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
But you didn't have an educator. You have somebody to
give you those tools.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
I was very blessed.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
When I was fourteen, I got kicked out of school
and there was this teacher. If a mildy teacher had
come up to me, I would have listened, because in
our culture.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
You listen it's an elder speaking.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Absolutely, But he was white teacher, blonde hair, and thankfully
he had seen good in me, and at that time
my life, I didn't even see good in me. And
me and me five mates, wet and kicked out of school.
And he told me this, and he said, do you
want my help? I've talked to the principle. If you
accept my help, he's going to keep you here. And
my response was I don't need help from no white
boy and walked off. Thankfully, he went back to the

(15:36):
headmaster at the times said yep, he accepted. So I
was able to stay at school. Did you know that
at the time, I didn't. I didn't until later on
when we build a relationship. I was going to say,
and you have since I be seeing Gates. Oh, I
celebrated that he's still a very big part of my
life and without Humbro, my life could have looked very
different because you.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Were mentor would you call him a more father figure?

Speaker 4 (15:58):
Even I would say as much as my dad wasn't
the most positive role model all the time in my life,
he was always my dad, like he was always there.
He might not have been there emotionally and done lots
of things that were detrimental, but I had a dad,
So I wouldn't say father figure. But I would say
mental for sure. Because I started playing rugby shred out

(16:19):
of school as a job, and you did quite well,
didn't It was rugby year. Yeah, so that's what I
was doing for jobs, shred of school eighteen years old.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Can we talk about that for a second, because I
think that's really awesome, you know, because I think this
is where we lose a lot of My youngest son
is two of my two sons are both in the
Excellence programs and one's about to go into South Coast
Carnival and the other ones starting lock for the Red's
Division side in PBC. You in his third year. So,
but one thing I've tried to instill in them is

(16:48):
it's education. You can be the greatest athlete, but it
can be taken from you at any time. We educate
the brain. There's nothing we can't do for you. A
gifted man with a great opportunity. Eighteen and you were
being to play.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Yeah. When I was pre five years old, my old
man was a pretty decent footy player. Unfortunately, he liked
all the party and stuff as well, so never went
as far as he probably should have. An agreement that
he made for my mum is that he would take
me and my brother footy. So two three years old,
wear at footy trainings twice a week games every year.
Rugby League's my old man rugby league, and then me
and my brother ended up playing union. You know, straight

(17:28):
out of school. I was playing for Waikido, which is
a provincial team. You know, at the time you're not
supposed to pay players, but I was getting paid to
play club rugby, so I had no expenses. I was
this young eighteen year old kid everything was paid for,
getting played by my provincial and then just you know,
you know, they talked about I didn't want to become
my dad. I became my dad and got myself in
the front page of the newspaper domestic violence. Rugby player

(17:52):
gets aid of anger problem and I still couldn't control
my temper and I was still going around heading people.
And I was so embarrassed by this. I rung my
rugby manage at the time. I said I need to
get out of here, and he's like, what do you
want to do? And I said, I can't be in
this place anymore.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Well, your face is everywhere now, yeah, you knows who
you are and your business.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
He got me connected with the Reds over here. Came
over here, I was playing for a Gold Coast team
and training with the Reds. But then only three months later,
I was in the Gold Coast cancer would need a
bone marry transplant.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Say that again.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yeah, so three months after being here, I ended up
really sick. I needed a bone marry transplant and wow,
that was the end of my well it was actually
it was at the beginning of my life. And I
say that because rugby came before everything, even my children
as much as I love my children, Rugby was first.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Do you think because that was going to be putting
the bread and butter on the plates, you know, like
it was a priority that you made sure that you
provided or was probably not so much more selfish within
you at the time.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
Yeah, probably not so much providing for my family and
more so just wanting my dad to love me. And
I realized that I when I had a good game
of footage, he just showered me in love. So I
was like, I've just got to be the best rugby
player I can to get the thing that I'm not
receiving that I want most. Why I say that that
was the start of my life is because it took
my focus away from the importance of football and go Actually,
life's way more important than the thing that I call rugby,

(19:15):
you know, just waking up every day I'm actually grateful
for because that nearly got taken away from me. So
I spent nine months in hospital getting treatment because my
siblings went in a bow marry match. And then my
focus changed and that's really where the work that I
do today started. I reflected and said, fuck, I'm going
to get a job now, what the hell because I'm
never going to play footay again, said what I want

(19:37):
to do, And the first thing that came to mind
was that teacher. I said, that dude help me when
I had no one else. I said, I want to
be that for someone else. So I went on Google
seek found a job working with children being taken off
their parents and put into the Department of Trobal Safety.
I did that job for five years, but I absolutely
loved it, and I got put with all the toughest kids.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, I was my criminal history because of the Game
of life and serious charges. Nothing to women or children
that would be relative to not get but because it
was drugs guns, but we could continue on. But anyway,
it was very difficult. So I've always had to find
that loophole to give back, which I did. I volunteered
for nearly five years with Project Booya and the Rise Program,

(20:18):
and I got a lot of satisfaction out of coming
into these ten and twelve week programs for a day
and they know just a little bit about me because
there's a few documentaries done. So then when I walked
through the door, the expectations, Oh, but it broke that
ice because they realized that I got it. And you
look around the around I'm sure that you would have

(20:39):
seen yourself. There's always the alpha player in the group.
You know, he's on the bungers as he was the
vake things. You know, he's pushing around a fly, kicking
the kids. By the end of it, they're all in tears,
hugging each other, realizing they're no different. They're all on
the same journey man, and some of them have got

(21:00):
it some pretty tough times ahead. But for that moment
they can feel accepted. But I believe that can only
be given from a facilitator of a friend that has
lived that yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, because we have experienced to the deepest degree non acceptance.
So when they're playing in behaviors of non acceptance, rather
than me judging them or punishing them, I just get
curious and say, what's actually below that? And then I
start opening up questions or setting up things where I'm
actually speaking to that person over there to get to
the like to get curious about what's there, and eventually

(21:36):
it comes up. And then when you speak to that
unmet need of that little boy or that get to
that curiosity like, oh shit, this person's had the part
of me that no one else ever has been able
to any reason why I can do this because that
used to be me sitting in that seat.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Wow, you got me. You know, sometimes you meet somebody
that you resonate with. Then I was shocked when you
walked in the room, Like I see you online and
you know, I've seen photos and I know that you're
very healthy. I'm looking man, but you're a very staunch,
strong man, you know what I mean. But you're so
gentle in your area and you're you can feel by
being present with you, that shift from when you speak

(22:13):
of that hurt young man being that extroverted aggressor the
violent man. I can see that, but I can just
see this. I want to give you a hug, do
you know what I mean? Take that for what it is,
But that's the feeling that I get by your presence.
How does it feel when you walk into a room,

(22:34):
for example, with some young men, when you're looking in
the mirror and thinking, oh, it was once one of
you guys, and they look at you and there far
out and this guy's he's a beast. Because that's what
you get. But then you delivering and you're connecting and speaking,
like I feel the calmest. How does that go across
when you're doing that.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
In a group, you know, and from my experience, it
works really well for me and for other people too.
You know, I think we all judge people on their appearance.
At the moment I see someone, I make one or
two or three judgments quite quickly when someone's really strong,
looking or healthy. We make judgments that are actually assumptions,
and that can get us buy in or buy out

(23:17):
in any room. So I do use it to my advantage,
and then I come in with a softer energy to say, hey,
I'm here to sit with you next year, as opposed
to from a podium and speak to you, because I
know when I was if anyone spoke to me from
a podium, I was like, get fucked. There's absolutely no
way or listen to anyone as they come to me
from a podium status. So you know, again we come

(23:38):
back then you know this better than anyone when we
go from our place of experience, And how would have
I felt if someone was walking.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
To this room.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
We're able to be with the people as opposed to
being above the people walking side by side, And for me,
I want to empower people like self empower them. I
don't want you to be empowered because of me. I
don't want to be empowered because of this workshop. So
anything that we do today is actually because of you,
nothing to do with us. We just created a space
and you've done all the work.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Can you deliver, And I've seen some of your short
reels and stuff that you can come across quite for long.
You hit hard with your message, hence me being a
little taken back by this gentle soul that I'm sitting
with right now. I don't know what I expected. I
know what I thought right here right now is totally

(24:27):
a flip. Firstly, thank you, because I can feel your
energy and all calming me, like I've just come off
a two hour recording, you know, the drive up here.
There was a little bit of anxiety this morning. I
actually feel like I'm a total peace, beautiful, just so
calm and cooled right now.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
I could probably have a nap.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
You hit pretty hard in what you say, and it's
not always this quiet voiced me.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yeah, yeah, and we all know. The whole world knows that.
You know, sometimes you might see fifteen seconds of eight
hours or fifteen seconds off someone's twenty four hours we
all make and I do make judgment on that too,
and often we'll put out a real that is hard
hurting as it makes people listen. Hopefully it has people listen.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Sorry.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
And you know, there's two subjects that I get really
passionate about, and maybe those are the ones you've seen.
And that's a man in the way he treats a
woman woman.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yes, I'm glad you brought this up here because this
was something I was going to talk about.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Yeah, but please continue. And the other one as a
man in the way he creates safety for his children.
And I speak to that from both sides of the
coin because I was a fucking shit man to woman, yep,
And I was a very unsafe space to children. And
I've done the work that I've been I'm able to
I was able to flip that script, and it's like, brothers,

(25:41):
I understand the hurting, the pain, and the confusion over
this side, and we do get to do the work
and take extreme ownership of where we're currently out so
that we can get to the other side and be
what we say we are to these people. I love
my partner, I love my children, will fucking show them.
So I think that's mate. I get quite passionate about
this stuff, and a lot of that is because it
was my own stuff.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
I look in the mirror and I have to say
I'm guilty of the devil's tongue. I think that's my
biggest downfall with in my home my space is not
taking a moment to breathe, process and find a peaceful resolution.
I'm very quick to react at the time what comes out.
I have to own it. I mean, it's they're my words.

(26:25):
Is it acceptable? Can it be belittling and disgusting? Especially
in conflict with your wife or your partner or adult children.
That might really piss you off and you start cursing
and carrying on in a way that's dominant. I guess
for me, I was always flogged. You neveroke back, you
got lifted. We don't do that at all. It's unacceptable

(26:46):
in any way. It was unacceptable back then. But very
very conscious and as are our children of their rights
these days. And my words though, and the way that
I come across as been my discipline with my children,
not hands. But I am when I hear you just
say that, I need to work on that really really deeply,
because I am guilty of being the abuser of the tongue,

(27:12):
the words, the context of what I say. How do
you many of our listeners out there today can relate,
and if you're true to yourself, you'll put your hand up.
I want to ask the question on behalf of everybody
that may feel this, how do we take those steps
to learn to not to be conflictual? I suppose how
do I take a breath and how do I then

(27:34):
harmly respond to a situation? Or for me, I have
Type two bipolar and I don't see dm PTSD whatever,
but in the heat of the moment my reaction, I
need to learn to just pull back, stop and then
come forward. How does one work on that and do this?

Speaker 4 (27:54):
Yeah, there's a really good question, bro, And if you
don't mind, before I answer that, I just want to
share something the beautifulness of sitting in space with two
men like us, you know, a workshop that we might
sit and soft but beautiful things play, our nice shared
ownership about being a safe space woman. And that had
you go all fuck you know and put my hand
up and take ownership. And this is what you know.

(28:15):
I'm sure when you have a conversation with other men,
the same thing happens. You know, we men, we get
to keep holding each other accountable so that we can
be better for our families, because I know we all
want to be better, but we've got to actually start
practicing me better. But to answer your question, where a
lot of people, let's use your language. Your language is
the devil's tongue, and then we're constantly talking about the

(28:36):
devil's tongue. It's okay, what's the opposite of the devil's tongue.
I'm going to say in my language, it will be
probably Jesus tongue. So it's okay, what would Jesus do
in that moment?

Speaker 1 (28:43):
We wouldn't you're telling you you're a fucking little prick
and and you're an idiot. No, no, no, I'm just
saying across the board, please don't take that. That's how
I speak to my children. But in heat of moments,
there's been things like that said over the Yeah, whether
it be to my partner, whether it be to whomever.
You know, that's a fault in me that needs to
be reset.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
So another way of saying what I'm saying is get
really clear on how you want to show up. Let's
say there might be four steps. Okay. Most people will go, okay,
I'm really clear on my four steps now, and that's
how I want to show up. And they hope that
they're going to show up when the heat of the
moment shows up. Chances of that happening next to none.
You've got to live it every day. Yeah, You've got
to create a practice that you consistently and frequently do.

(29:25):
So those four steps are really basically like, oh yeah,
I can do that. Then it shows up, it bomb,
you blo up again. Okay, But the four steps are
so basically I'm going to practice them for one minute
every single day, and on the twentieth day that moment
shows up, boom, I have twenty experiences of one minute.
Therefore twenty more minutes than I did before I started practicing.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
There, you just slap me in the face harder than
you can realize. I'll tell you why, and people hear
this some of my episodes all the time. It has
a powerful meaning and a strong connection with how I
raise my children. I'll use this an example. I make
myself vulnerable here. Okay, we're on the table. I'm grateful
for you being here. This is what you do so

(30:05):
let's pick on me beautiful, right, I'll just throw myself
under the bus. But are you we go So, for example,
I get frustrated over the smallest things and I'll just
get boom. And I've seen in my kids because they're
getting older now, their faces. And then I pick up
on the body language so that it's me attacking that
what you're not listening to me, and then it escalates,

(30:27):
you know, to then I become in my content. It's
classed as abusive by the words that I use, not
directly attacking them, but how I speak about what is
happening at that moment. My wife may look at me
and she just like, babe, that's you don't need to
you stay the fuck out of it. You know, this
is between me and the kids, because they're not little

(30:50):
kids anymore, you know, the young adults. So that way
of thinking is not okay. They're still human, they're still
my children. That was my wife trying to just say, hey,
take a breath. And she's a key with so she's
got that inside. She's got the multi blood in her
as well, and you know my kids are so they've
got this beautiful soft side. But then there's the other side.

(31:13):
Also if they need to be the worry or you know,
the strong one, the woman she's carried twenty years of
my shit. But in saying that too, you know, like,
I'm not a terrible person. I have bad habits. I
want to be the best version of me. I want
to be a great dad. I just want to be
a good human.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
You know.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
I enjoy helping people, but I do have these issues. Yeah,
what do I do like for me? As I say,
go back to being the contradictive wag. I ask of
my children every day, don't win that race. Don't tell
me you got number one in the class. Just tell
me you did well. Be one percent better today than
you were yesterday. That's all I ask.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Yeah, earlier I mentioned when we're talking about that young
boy that's in that room, I said, when he's misbehaving
or doing the things that people might judge, I actually
get curious. So when you speak about the experience your
time into right now, I just get curious. So a
question that I could even ask you right now, is
the last time that you are frustrated with one of
your children, what part of you have they triggered.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
The repetitiveness of asking to take the fucking bin out
every night, something so trivial, Like, really, is it that
big of a problem. I'll just pick it up and
take it out myself. But if they see me constantly
picking up those small chores that are expected of them
to show them a way of life and what we
need to start to engage in the life skills, am

(32:38):
I piggybacking them through that?

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Well? When you say the repetitiveness, would it be fair
to say that you not being listened to?

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yep?

Speaker 4 (32:46):
So not being heard? Yes, And let's reflect back to
your childhood. How often were you not listening to seen
and not heard? Yeah? So, on a surface level, is repetitive.
It's just a rubbishment, but an actual fact, the hurt
part of you that wasn't to listen to or heard
back in your child has been triggered. All these sensations

(33:07):
come for your body and you react from that little
hurt version of you as opposed to the rubbishment.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Not to my father, God bless him. We've had a
beautiful relationship. We worked on in our relationship for ten
fifteen years before we are at this beautiful space. We
call each other every day. I love my dad and
we're very open to be able to have this conversation.
He will maybe hear this, and I know that he
won't take it to heart, But you know, you talk
about being heard for me as a six year old

(33:36):
boy being molested and raped by my neighbors. I remember
the day I went to the verandah to speak to
my father and he was a heavy drinker back then,
being in an indigenous community. Not that's how it was.
They'd ripped the fence panels down to be up all night,
sink and flag and support. And they were his brothers,

(33:58):
two of the older. They were young adults that were perpetrators.
And I'd had enough and I couldn't go to fotball
training without being captured in the bush on way to
football training and molested and I had to tell someone.
And the moment I went open up, I was lifted
clean off of veranda about three foot high and open
handed and basically told, how dare I fucking say that

(34:22):
about them?

Speaker 4 (34:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Like I say, I love my dad. My dad's my world.
He's all I've got besides my own children, and he's
not well. I don't see a lot of them, seen
three times in four years, but that moment has forever
lived within me. Now I've never spoken about it in
this manner. Maybe I haven't really dealt with a lot
of those issues because I wasn't heard. So when then

(34:50):
my wife doesn't hear me and I'm just having a
conversation about something that's relevant to whatever's going to happen
for the day, I blow up. Yeah that's trivial, that's shit,
but to me it's massive in my head.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah, thank you for being so open, bro, And I
know that this will resonate with one person and for
me when something residents one person.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
I didn't expect me to be getting counseled by you,
but I'm actually quite grateful. I think this is this
is what it's about, Bro, This is why I do
what I do. If I've got to be vulnerable and
have you sit here and pull me apart to better
me and help me than far out. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah, you're welcome, my brother. And you know, we talk
about surface level. My wife didn't listen to me, and
my children didn't listen to me. In a real time experience,
it's like trivial, but it's like, yes, my body is
actually not reacting to that. It's more reacting to the
time I got lifted off the fucking veranda from me
trying to express that I've been sexually abused. So this

(35:51):
saw a little boy who's so fucking hurt and holds
so much pain, who is now a man. So when
the trivial shows up in real time, we're actually reacting
to that experience there.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
And am my contradictive in being as a man, as
a partner, as a husband, as a parent because I
sit down and I say, I would never let my
children go through what I went through, and I wouldn't,
you know, But yet they're going through the same traits
because I'm not able to communicate in a positive manner
at times that his classed as being abusive. Let's just

(36:28):
call it for what it is. You can't speak in
an aggressive, abusive way, no matter what the situation is.
It's unacceptable. I'm guilty of it.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
Yeah, And my response to that, i'd validate that and
then say, we don't know what we don't know, So
until you know, you can't do something about it. And
maybe today is the knowing of Ah, that's actually where
it comes from. And now we get to do specific
work on what the unmet need was. So It's like
the little boy that got lifted when he was trying
to express this what's been playing out for me? Okay,

(37:01):
that's what he received. What did he actually need? And
we could even get more. What's a sentence that you
needed to hear from the people that you were expressing
it to.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
What does a six year old boy want to hear.
I want to see my father protect me. I want
to see him go hunt. I want to see these
people hurt suffer.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
Like I have.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
And I know that sounds terrible, and I'm sure you
guys listening today get what I'm saying. It's what I
would want. I remember when I was doing one of
my sentences, there was a six year sentence and I've
said this before in another interviews, where I would sit
in the yard over those years, pondering on those moments
that those two perpetrators in particular ever walked into the

(37:44):
yard and I was ready to just run straight across
the yard with the blade. Thank God, I am blessed
that never ever happened. I was never put in that
position to destroy my life, not have the beautiful family
that I have, not been able to be a dad.
I would have done life in jail over being a
hurt child from somebody else's actions. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (38:09):
And I want to validate that because if I was
in that experience, it's exactly what I would want to
do too. And this is me not devaluing what you're saying,
and it's not even truth, it's just something I want
to put into the space. Is that's what you wanted?
The question was what did you need just needed to
be heard and what was the sentence that you wanted

(38:31):
to hear? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
I can't genuinely if I was to answer, it'd be
probably bullshit just coming off the tip of my tongue
for the podcast.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
And this is great.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I can't honestly tell you right this moment, I would
have to go away and actually really deeply think about
that answer.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Because I believe there's lots of healing in that sentence.
Right then they get a step further with that sentence
and go okay, and I'll just put one into the
space as an example. Please, thank you for sharing me.
You're safe now, we'll work this out together. Yeah, and
then be hugged. And then the little boy to have

(39:08):
experienced a feeling, and let's say it was a warm feeling.
It's hard of safety now. So now we've got a sentence,
we've got an action of a hug, and we've got
a feeling in your body, and that's where or you're
healing lay. If those were the examples that you come
up with, once you're reflected, to meet yourself consistently and
frequently in those three needs, and you will heal the
wound of that little boy who never got hurt. And

(39:31):
those trivial points of not being heard by your wife
were a kid will dissolve and you'll start seeing the
bin for what the bin is as opposed to being
lifted off the veranda.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Would you do me a favor and I'm going to
take from our journey today everything ye Like I said,
this has never been scripted any episode in you know,
only six million downloads and two hundred and twenty something episodes.
It's never once been scripted. So every time I sit

(40:02):
down with a guest, it's totally different experience. I would
really be grateful if you could send those three points.
I would look into myself and take some deep action
because I need to hear that people used to talk about,
you know, club life and stuff like that, and once again,
I'm sure you'll relate. I was an extremely violent man.

(40:27):
I held positions in club that would deal with those issues.
But beyond that, I was just a scared little boy
in a set of colors, you know that was just
grown up in such violence. And like I said, is
to have to fight to keep my shoes on my feet.
You know. I would get jumped by three four at

(40:48):
a time just because I'd walk through a park in
Campbelltown in Western So it was a Sydney and the
crew because it was sort of the Polly's and you
know pretty well the quarries, and they'd be all in
their drink and sooner or later someone would be like
looking for someone to take their shit out onnerable one
person walking through a crew. I probably could have taken

(41:08):
a different route, but I was numbed. It would just
be an autopilot, go through, do your best. Yeah, you're
gonna get it anyway, it's going to happen. Yeah, what
do you do it? You've been copping it all your life. Yeah,
that's how you live. I resonate with that, But you know,
you're talking about being a violent manner. And when I
got to the truth, I was actually fucking just scared. Yeah,

(41:30):
because every time that I was violent, what was driving
that was fear. I've sat with many of what society
would deem some of the most scary men, and I
love that I get to sit in those spaces, one
on one with these men, and I hold that space
so sacred and I would never share a weord outside
of that room. What I will share is when we
get to the core of it, they were fucking scared too.

(41:51):
When you look at the most violent people, but that's
the most pain's being inflicted on them, and they have
the most fear stuck in their body, and that's what's
driving that violence. So can we bypass all this, not
downplay it, but go past that, get curious to what
the fucking pain and hurt is and work with the
hurt and pain, get to the core of it, and
watch the violence dissol. We've got two men here for

(42:12):
spitting examples of that. You know, we work through the
hurt and the pain and the fear, and we now
show up completely different for our families, for our partners
and children, and even community. I find interesting that we
could sit here and I'm sure once again, I like
to throw it back to our listeners, because this is
why we do what we're doing. That many of you

(42:32):
out there feel that you've probably done a lot of work,
done things to better who you were. I like to
think that I'm very compassionate these days. I'm more thoughtful
of others. But until moments like this and sitting down
with someone like yourself and a no bullshit conversation and

(42:54):
you realize I've still got a fucking a lot of
work to do. I'm not healed. Yeah, a big cliche,
But everything happens for a reason, you know us, we've
tried to make this happened, this moment sit down for
some time, and life hasn't allowed us because of just
wasn't right. There wasn't the time. You know, we're both
southern end of the Gold Coast. We're up in the

(43:16):
big city of Brisy, and here we are that we've
made the effort to get here today, both on our
journey and in our busy day and with many things
to be done, but we're here in this moment.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
Yeah, it's a real powerful moment.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
It's probably the most personally powerful podcast I've done. Hence
the Little Giggles. Yeah, a bit uncomfortable. I'm not uncomfortable
being in the presence of you. I'm uncomfortable with myself
being vulnerable, I think because this is your fucking story
and I'm supposed to hear when you want.

Speaker 4 (43:49):
And like you said, brother, this is not scripted, and
we'll just allow the universe or God or life to
just go where it needs to go.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Why are you traveling? You're a traveling man, but a
family man. Hey, balance in it now. Yeah, you spoke
earlier that you know, you sort of had to create
that positive space for the family and then obviously work
you're so dedicated to. How are you dealing That's a.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
Really cool question, Broke, because I've actually been unpacking that
over the past month. And I have traveled in particular
the last four or five years, and where I'm mostly
travel bro is after a relationship breakup. You know, I've
had two relationship breakups and I just went and I
genuinely loved traveling. But what I've realized in the last
month is a lot of my traveling was to run away.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
I was just about to ask you, do you feel
that you were running away from the problems?

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Yeah? And I've set it home for six weeks up
until recently, I just went away for work. But in
that six weeks, not one part of me wanted to
go away, and every part of me wanted to be
at home with my children, with my granddaughter, and with
my partner. And I said to my partner, I love
being home now. And I was like, fuck, I've been running,

(45:02):
and I sat and I unpacked it all, and I
just I didn't shame myself or see myself into a
shame spot. But it's like, I love that I see
this now. So when I do travel, okay, I'm traveling
because I want to and not because I'm running away
from something.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
I said, a really beautiful moment, your partner, or was
it your daughter? Just recently there was you in the
kitchen and you're prepping something and the girls said, trying
to sneak you a little bit, get to catch you
off guard. I took that as a really beautiful moment.
Was it Is it a bit of a g up
for dandel that was it? Was it your daughter? Sorry?

Speaker 4 (45:35):
First, my daughter and my partner?

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Okay, beautiful, so I thank you? So was it sort
of let's get dad and get a little bit of
a bite out of him.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
There's a couple of beautiful things there that played out
for me. And that's the fact that my daughter's connecting
with my partner because that's not her biological mom. That's
not her biological mum. But at the same time, I
raised my children by myself. Their mum was never around
and there was also very little or few women that
were in their space growing up, so that very familiar
with men but not women. So her trusting woman is

(46:07):
a big thing. So for them to be connected. And
then set that little scenario up, and the scenario was
they put a camera around from a film me just
to get my reaction when my daughter was telling my
partner to shut up. And first time I heard it,
I kind of turned and I was like, nah, I
heard wrong. And I heard it again. I said, what
what did you say?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
And that was that moment when you were and then
you just stopped and everything just paused as she's having
a little people.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
Yeah, you know, I'll protect my people. And I was like,
how about you shut up to my daughter. But we've
also got that relationship me and my children, like we
used to lay in bed and some of my friends
will be over and my you know, people will yell
at good night. We were like, yeah, shut you shut up,
and we're sort of silly like that in our household.
But it was really beautiful for me, in particular to
see my partner and my daughter sort of connected and

(46:55):
having something to try to set me up. I love
that experience very So you.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Just spoke that you raised your children. Wow, credit to you, Brot.
I mean, look, twenty odd years I've been with my
partner and three beautiful children and my oldest sons to
another partner prior. But but it hasn't been smooth sailing.
We've been through some tough time, especially in the last
five years. We've been really tested from outside influence. But

(47:23):
that being said, it caused us to separate. I'll take
the boys and our daughter and you. I mean our
daughter turned eighteen a few weeks ago, but she's legally
sit and paired, so life's a bit different for her.
She needs the support. And I thought it was like, well,
it's me and the boys. Now I've got a man

(47:43):
up here. My son said to me, Dad, you were
just so much different, and I don't know how to
best take that because I love an A door there, mum,
she gave me three amazing children, and she stood by
my side through everything, So we aren't discredit somebody that's

(48:07):
done that. There's a lot of people that drop the ball,
as we both know, will find some grasses greener on
the other side. So for me, I've got to step
up here. But then my son's like, Dad, you just
seem more at peace, more happier. You're not as classed
off the hand, or quick to react. For others out
there that are in similar situations, someone like yourself who's

(48:29):
able to educate people in this space, what would you
say to me? How should I process that? Is it
a good thing? Should I work on rebuilding that beautiful
relationship that once was? Or should I just give up?
Because my son says, oh, Dad, you're happier than your mum,
A separated you know? Is that what I truly want

(48:51):
in my heart? No, I want my family together. I
don't want my kids grown up the way I grew up.
I want solidarity. I want wholesomeness. I want one roof
over our heads as a united front. We're together, We're
in this rough, thick and thin. But that's not always
the case, and it hasn't been the case.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
Yeah, I think to answer your question and you actually
answer it yourself. Because she said, I want my family
under one roof, and I want this and I want that.
If you want that, it sounds like the old version
of that is not what you want. It's okay. If
you want a new version of your family all being
happy and living under one roof, create that. But to

(49:29):
create that, you actually must get clear on what that is.
So a way we do this. Okay, what are the
three most important things if that were to be your reality?
And let's say togetherness, presence, and love.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Now we're going to explore what those three things mean
for you. Okay. Now we've got this really clear roadmap
of what you actually want this new household to be. Okay,
Now we're going to create habits that are in alignment
with that. Now I can forget about that and just
focus on the habits. And I focus on the habits
long enough and do it frequently consistently that I actually
create that.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Well, what if you feel that? Once again, Please don't
anybody take offen to this, because I'm not trying to
play sides here, and I'm just putting scenarios which are reality.
What if the other party doesn't see that they're really
in the wrong, and it happens in a lot of
relationships with that blame game of nuts. You you've got
to changes, you've got to do this, you've got to

(50:20):
do that. But in the biggest scheme of things, you're
a team. To make it work, You've both got to
sacrifice or make changes. If one person's getting triggered, then
the other person's obviously got issues as well. Like it
just doesn't balance out. It takes two to tango. Please
see if you know a better way, or if I'm

(50:40):
wrong in saying that, then I'm willing to learn. But
in my perspective, I feel that you have to have
that same desire both parties to want to resolve, work
and better yea, and grow that love or rebuild or
find that spark again.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
Yeah, absolutely, brother, there needs to be a two part will.
I mean they're both willing to do the work that
it's required to have the thing that they both say
they want. And the example you gave again, I'll come
back to that curiosity, you know, get curious, She's I'm
not wrong, you're wrong, Okay, what is me wrong? Being
mean for her? And you go back to her childhood

(51:19):
bro and what happened when she got things wrong, and
it would have been unsafe and unlovable. So of course
she's not going to be wrong today. So now is
the man rather than me fighting with her to be
right and then now we just end up in a
battle in a circle. Is I'm not going to play
that game more. I want to get curious and start
meeting that need so that she can feel safe and

(51:39):
when things aren't right, and then watch her soften into that.
And the second part of that is you know, I've
expressed that to me before and they're like, oh yeah,
but I've been doing it for a month now. I said,
we'll do it for two months, and I'll be doing
it for two months, We'll do it for three months.
You said you want this, and your will is there?
Who will's there? But she's just not quite there in
the safe trust thing?

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Two isn't years and years of the same repetitive shit
becomes becomes untrustworthy one percent.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
And I said it to the brothers in particular, you know,
it's just the same shit, And I said, and you're
saying it the same way, so nothing changed, And they're like,
but how long do I just stayin this. And I said, well,
let's put it this way. I said, there was a
dark room, you'd not seen your missus in there, and say,
go in there and make sure it's safe, and then
come back and tell me. Then I'll come with you.
I said, You'll go into the dark room, make sure
it's safe, and then come back and get her. Meaning

(52:28):
you go in and you listen, and you listen and
you listen and you listen till she feels safe enough
to explore what's actually going for her and then made
the union. It comes back together.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Wow. Patience something that many of us lack of, and
it really is. It's not and it may be a
little bit repetitive, but it's not until you have these
moments where you sit down and can be totally open
and vulnerable with someone. Look we're doing right now. Hey guys,
if this is more of a therapy session than a

(52:59):
podcast issue, then please take it for what it is,
because War is a man that is making differences in
people's relationships and life. I'm embracing this. It's different, very different.
I do see that you work on couples. Is that
your partner that works also?

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Now my partner doesn't do any work with the men.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
No, No, because you have and I'm sure and maybe
it's a leno I've seen do it too, because I
do follow you both both doing great work. Do you
do workshops for couples to come in where you do
have a female also.

Speaker 4 (53:40):
We have done that in the past. In the last
two years, we have not, we've been specifically working with men.
What you may have seen is we've got two female
counselors on our team as well, so often they'll come
into spaces and there's there's big intention and reasoning why
we have women in the space as well, and sometimes
it's the most powerful part of what we're actually doing.
So yeah, we do have women coming to the mean
spaces to whole different parts that we're unable to hold.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
How do you find that seeing the difference in men
changing after these educational sort of programs or workshops.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Yeah, Like I said, it makes me feel proud more
so what I've done for my life, and it just
makes me happy for these men. The deepest part of
my happiness lay and when I see them at peace,
because I understand what the opposite of peace is, bro
And it's fucking exhausting. And I often see men just
fighting with themselves. They think they're fighting with their partner,

(54:33):
children or the world, but they're actually fighting with themselves.
So we can help them to see that, and they're like, oh,
I get to dissolve that fight, and that's where we
find the peace. So anyone said, what do you want
to help men find the most one? It's themselves and
inside of themselves, it's peace. I don't care about happiness anymore, bro,
I just care about peace. That's a bring me peace.

(54:55):
And if you're peaceful, you're happy exactly. I used to
be so focused on happiness and chase happiness. I don't
even think about chasing anything. Am I here and my
peaceful that's.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Enough for me? Well, I think if you put in
their perspective, are we ever truly happy? We always want more,
or we always want something better or great? Or or
is enough enough? What is enough? Once you find peace,
you find peace. Piece is peace. If we stop war,
we find peace, we find a resolution, we stop the violence.

(55:25):
Things change absolutely. If we all have this desire to
just want happiness, well I might just go and get
lunch after here and just be happy about that. Again,
they can't go fuck me as I go down the
end one back down the Gold Coast, and I said,
you know, for forty five minutes in traffic because some

(55:45):
person might just had a bad day. But I'm here
saying this, buddy, idiot scores this GA accident. Whatever? Really,
how do we know what space they are in when
that occurred? Was it a moment of panic? Was it
a moment they're not happy? Was it a moment they're
not at peace? But yet I'm projecting now my shit
under them. But I was happy? Was I ever at

(56:05):
peace prior to leaving to go down that road?

Speaker 4 (56:08):
Yeah? You know, you just see something about and traffic,
And I just want to preface this because it's something
I've been practicing and I believe, I believe there's a
lot of men they might go, oh fuck, I might
try that. So in the past, you know, if someone
was to cut me off and pull the fingers, you
know my trigger, I've been dominated, showed up. No one's
going to dominate me. I'm going to fucking dominate you
because I promised myself that I would never let anyone

(56:31):
stand over me like my dad used to. So I
would never let anyone get the better of me. And
what I do now on road rage is but I
will actually still do the same, like pull over, get
up close to someone, and I win way down and
I say, brother, you're good, and they're like, fuck, there's
I'm genuinely asking how you okay? Bro, I'm going to
see you're having a really bad day.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
So you're offering concern, compassion.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
Absolutely, if you need someone to talk to your brother,
I'm here. When they're seeing a man that would look
like they're going to jump out, they can't say those things.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
Watch them every time.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
It's like he ran down the window and you had
your fucking arm up and your hanging out. I've been
off more than like a chewy like and then he's soft.

Speaker 4 (57:10):
Yeah boy, are you okay? Yeah? Like?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
And my taking that is, hey, what are you having
to fucking go at me?

Speaker 4 (57:16):
Initially they do, but when they realized when you say
the second time and definitely the third time, it de
escalates the whole situation. And I look back to myself.
You know, when I was triggered or I was unhurt
or pain. If someone met me in that same frequency, bro,
I'm fucking getting I'm going higher. But if someone met
me in a lower frequency. Hey, brother, you actually okay?
My fuck again, I've got nothing to fight with. And

(57:37):
it actually happened maybe three weeks ago. Dude was right
up mass fucking cut me. After that, I ended up
some lights and I didn't need to go right, but
I pulled up next to him and got real close
and on one way and don't he thought they were
about to go yeah, yeah, And I said, brother, you're okay,
and he's like, fucking you're fucking going so slow. I said, no,
I'm genuinely asking, bro. He lood like you having a
bad day, fucking no fucking more about my day. I said, well,
I'm just here to listen, bra if you need someone

(57:58):
to talk to. And he stopped and he was just
looking at me, confused as fucking He goes, oh, sorry, bro,
and then wind his window and then I just drove off.
And my hope is and I just trust that's what
he is in that moment.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
And you know what else, bro, in which we don't
think about, is the role on effect from that. He
goes home to the wife and the kids. He was
carrying a lot of anger and stress obviously for him
to react in that manner, so he was already on edge.
He gets home, seize the wife and please God. He
walks in, gives her a kisses, Hey love, are you

(58:31):
are you good?

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:32):
I'm good. Hey kids, You by doing that just changed
the whole chain of events that could possibly and most
definitely have walked into a volatile environment or brought negativity
into the home. Hey Love, how did I funk off?
I'll be ready? You want dinner? Yeah? I went over.

(58:52):
I'm ready. I'm gonna going for a shower. Hey dad,
look can you fuck off and leave me alone? I
want to? I just but no, by you in that
moment of it could have been danger because the way
that we don't know how people are going to react
today with the way society is, and who's to say
you didn't have a gun to just pull out start
firing or jump out with a blade and start chopping.
But you took that opportunity to be vulnerable. Although your

(59:17):
presence would have showed that you were very capable of,
you know, being a strong present man, but you showed
a very gentle, kind, compassionate side. It made such a difference.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Yeah, and like generally I don't have any fucking want
to me to fight anyone anymore. If I had to
protect my family hundredercent, I would, yeah, of course. But
if someone was fighting me, Bro, I don't want to
fight you. I'm walking away. I'm done with that. It's exhausting,
and I've got so much love and compassion for you, brother,
And I hope that by sharing this, another brother has
an experience after listening to us and goes, you know,

(59:49):
I'm going to fucking just meet this dude with peace.
I imagine if we could let that flow, because it's
not just that one experience, it flows back into that
person's home and that person's home more so, I'm.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Kind of light now thinking. I hope I get into.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
Practice.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
I don't. It's a bad thing to project that out there.
Could see, like I said, it could go real sour
and somebody might have a bad day and really just
fucked my day right up. But I'm one of these
people that likes to take something from every conversation, and
in our conversation here right now, there's a lot to take.
For starters, Please share your your page.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Yeah, just a Mend movement, official Amend movement. And then
my name's just wait, it's a new Wanger. Yeah, I
like to try get them separate now because a lot
of people will come to my personal page and asking
stuff about the work. I'm like, the fuck, If you
go to my page, you're probably not going to a response.
If you go to the men page, You're one hundred
percent going to get a response. And I just had
to put a boundary up there because you know, and

(01:00:45):
I have compassion for people, but I've also got to
have a boundary for myself because after the twentieth person
that's just emotionally dumped the heavy story of sexual abuse
or DV on me, I'm like, if I read five
of those, I'm fucked.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
I've take a lot of podcasts, bro, Like you know,
four and a half years, it's a lot of a
lot of talk. And the first half of that journey
was some truly heavy stories and traumatic stories of people's
journeys that I didn't really think too much that would
have an impact on me because I'm a survivor and

(01:01:19):
you know, I'm being experienced this and I get it.
Mate rattled me to the point where I was like
saying that my producer Jay, let's knock it on the head,
you know, like back I think season eight, Season nine,
and I had to take a shift and realize these
stories are also powerful and so giving, and these beautiful

(01:01:42):
people have entrusted me to deliver their story, and I've
tried to do it with such honor and respect, but
I can't help but take it on and feel for
these wonderful people in front of me. But then that
just carried on and got heavier and heavier and heavier,
and I didn't realize it, but that was changing me,
It really did. So we had to take a different route.

(01:02:04):
That route being now is sure. We talk about your
initial stories and each of our guests, but we want
to give people tools you hope, you know, valibility and
enabling them to know that they can be anything they
want in life. They don't have to be that angry person.
We all do have our own genuine story, and everybody's

(01:02:27):
story is worthy. But do we have to carry it
through our life for them to reflect onto our next
generation or our children or neighbors, friends, whatever. No, we
can move forward and put that in its box and
sit it on the shelf and say thank you, You've
got me to this start of life.

Speaker 4 (01:02:46):
Now it's time for me to grow be a better human. Yeah. Absolutely,
and I think that's a great example what you just said.
Around the heavy ness of the first season. You know,
so many people are so focused on what they're consuming nutritionally,
it's like everything we consume affects us, good or bad.
Even I you know, listen to podcasts or more probably

(01:03:08):
more importantly with people that notice as the conversations that
we're having daily. Why because those conversations are so repetitive,
and that's one way we program a subconscious mind as repetitive.
So if we're repetitively having the same conversation with the
same people and its negative shit, we're downloading that into
our subconscious. It's going to take over and we will
start to create from that frequency.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
You're a very very beautiful man. I want to remain
in contact, connect and I'd love to look into doing
something with you if I can have your time and
when you're available and whatever, will just work it out.
And for anybody else out there that wants to reach
out to myself or why directly, please feel free to
do it. I can honestly say, I'm leaving this conversation

(01:03:55):
today with some really valuable tools, and I'm really really
grateful it was I prepared for it, mat Am I
taking back a bit. Yeah, and I'm excited about finding
a bet of me. If you could give some advice,
and it's just you don't leave the clink without leaving
some tools brouh because all our people out there that

(01:04:20):
need the help, that are in the struggle. What would
be two really good tools that you would leave, Yeah,
today's talk with.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
The first one would be probably not so much a tool,
but a concept. And the concept is you are the
most important person in the world. Yeah, so many of
us people when I use parents as an example, we
say our children the most important person in the world.
And let's say I've got three children. That means I'm
the fourth most important person in my world, meaning those
three children are getting the fourth best version of their dad.

(01:04:53):
Was I put myself at the top and fill my
own cup. They get the overflow of me feeling amazing
about myself. So it'd be the first thing is like
start placing importance in your life from self view. I
mean the second one is, you know, a lot of
the work we do is people you know, retracing their
story and doing lots of healing. And I think it's needed,

(01:05:16):
but it's not, there's not so much time needed in
that space. I actually think it's starting to be it's glorified,
you know, all my pain and my trauma and people
getting all the lots of attension from it. The beautifulness. Actually,
once you've done that, work to come across to the creation. Okay,
what the fuck do I want now? Because what's the
point of doing the healing if you don't get to
the what you want in the end. So yes, through

(01:05:40):
the healing, but also focus on what you want and start.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
To create that. We thank you so much for being
here today. Thank you for allowing me to open up
once again. I was faced to be interviewing you being
somebody that needed to be heard, I guess, And thank
you to everybody that's taken the time to listen to

(01:06:03):
this episode. It's definitely it's a very different one and
one that I'm really really honored and proud that we
got to really do. Can I ask that maybe, you know,
in a next six months or twelve months, we get
you back on here and just see where it's at
and what I was doing in the world. And I

(01:06:24):
feel that, you know, there'd be quite a few people
that will receive this well, and I think that we
could definitely do another another episode, a part two. Would
you be open to that?

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Yeah, But it's been my absolute pleasure and I've been
really grateful that you were so open to going to
the places and spaces that the conversation took us. And
I would absolutely love to come back.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Big love to you, my man, and I am I'm
going to give you a hug when I walk out.
I just need to. Yeah, I need to give you
that hug. And guys, thank you, thank you very much
for taking the time to sit down and listen to
the Clink a very special episode. Please take care of
yourself and remember to reach out at any time. My

(01:07:10):
door is always open. You can catch me at the
Clink podcast on Instagram. While one more time, if you
could just please give everybody your page official in Movement
in www dot amin movement dot com as our website.
There you have it, guys, Wow, stay tuned for the
next episode, and thank you very much. This is the Click.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Photo Record. Don't try and make you out comfortable, photo Record.
You try and world and stuff for your photo record
lab on me going hard to work. Photo Record, ain't
trying link not trying to wish for

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Photo ragged red foto ragged foto ragged