December 28, 2025 • 41 mins
In this second part of the interview Troy opens up about his new life in law and what boxing taught him
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
H approach production.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
For the record. I'm don't trying to make you uncomfortable
for the record. You ain't trying to grow any stuff
for your bright for the record, lab on me going
all the way the way for the record. Ain't trying
to link, No trying to waste.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Stuff for the record, for the record, for the for
the record, for the red for the record, for the record.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
For the record. I don't try and make you uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Right, oh man, it is something that I'll say. Like,
so as a as a law pluck obviously can't do trials,
can't run. So we're talking criminal law criminal or currently
I'm sorry, I'm just I've just moved on. For criminal
we can get it. We can get onto that a
(01:13):
little bit later. But like in criminal obviously there's a
lot of a lot of procedure, hearings. I guess I
mentioned and whatnot, and so I'm allowed I'm allowed to
It would be a guinea pig for this conversation. Do
you want to do?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
What do you call it when they do a is
it thesis? What the fuck is it? I can't I'm
not break.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
What do you do? Like like a study of you
need someone to study on, brother, please knock on my door.
I've got fucking years of it. I should have been
a lawyer. Embarrassed to myself? Can I a double I
don't explain too much this year?
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Then?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, So like I'm allowed to extra represent clients and
these mentions that they're not usually present. It's obviously the
benefit of heavy representation. They don't have to go to
court all these these procedures. But mate, like you've got
to know everything. And obviously I'm coming from, you know,
a background where you know you're not really been to.
(02:14):
You don't need to remember things or whatnot, except for
here for physical than intellectual. But yeah, I'm starting from
the bottom of again, right, And then I'm like, I'm
like a lot of people do know that I've come
from boxing. All the words going around, and I think
it's kind of in a way, it's it's nice because yeah,
a bit more supported, but.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Is there a little bit of when you do walk
into the courtroom in a fine dresser and you know,
people sort of turn around and go, oh, that's that's
try coilt.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
You know, I'm the last and the loa and there mate,
like and like when I go up and I have
to speak in these mentions. Mate, I've got more hiding
from magistrates and judges than.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
I ever have from Justice Herney or anybody Matey, they
like if you, if you, if you want to be
in a position you gotta you got to learn, you
got to take those spiring sessions and get beaten up
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
It's the only very correlating over its Yeah, it's difficult
to touch on that for a secon because that's I
didn't even think of it from that point of view.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
But you are literally going back into sparring, like you said, yeah,
with I guess words and an IQ because his reality
is you're crafty with your hands, but how are you
with your tongue and your mind?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And yeah, yeah, I didn't even think of this.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You'd be sad on your ass literally by a magistrate
was having a bad day, if you were inappropriately addressing
or you know, coming across in an unprofessional.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
If you will weigh Yeah, I think it's like it's
again just like boxing, you've got to prepare as best
you can and like you come undone when you like
you don't know everything you should So even if it's
just about a matter like you know your instructions in
this chilosphone carriage, and he'll tell you to go and
(04:05):
say these things. We'll mentioned these things. The judge give
the journalist reason or whatever, and you just go there
with those simple instructions. But if you don't know the
background of the actual meta or where it is currently procedurally,
if there's like committal metters going on or whatever whatever
it may be, If I don't know that and they
ask like you wearing ship, they'll snit their weakness on you,
(04:27):
and they will they'll let you know. Like there was
this one time, oh mate, I just crumbled, like I
was into strict court and then I was the first
up for the day. So I had a horn full
of barristers and solicitors and whatnot, and they're all sitting
there watching and obviously like, oh, how this fucking xbox
They're gonna, you know, take it. And then so I remember,
(04:49):
I just missed up my announcement.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I was going to say, introduting yourself with the firm
you're from and who you're representing.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Is that what you're referring to?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Correct, And this judge just like near straight away on
green like and then she just humiliated, the abstince wreck
out of me. I asked me questions for you, I
wouldn't have no ann answered to and I'm just breaking.
It's getting worse and worse, and they've got sitting out
of the court room just to gain instructions. She told
me to get and came back in and yeah, that.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
But people don't talk about these sort of things, and
this is this is actually very interesting, and thank you
for being so open about it because I understand, you know,
like there's certain language you can speak and can't and
I would not put you in a vulnerable position, but
that right there, it just goes to show that you
have to earn your stripes again. Like here you are
(05:43):
really and truly giving it. You're all You're there to
get to the bar for starters.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
This huge.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You're at the bar, you're actually you know, giving instructions
from a client to a judge, magistrate, whatever, whoever's residing.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And I only know.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
This because of forty years of court cases. Who's counting,
maybe thirty five?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But anyway, I should have been embarrassed as I said that.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I would have I would have done I might even
be able to sit down and help you at times,
just give me a call.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I need some advice. But I'm very no.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I won't even go into it on this because I'm like,
you're fucking hindered for it, but.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
It is how could I put it? That would be scary?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Like that would be scary, you know, your confidence would
be just knock clean out of you. And all you're
trying to do is learn grow and better yourself to
become greater something like that, Like that's that's a you know,
like you say, she she pulled you to pieces and
you know, basically humiliated. What the fuck would you do that?
(06:55):
To ask in a respectful way, but why would was it?
Do you feel that was to educate you better? Or
was it to literally say, hey, you're in the big
leagues now, buddy, young shit together?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I think Brandon's crew basically not to say yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Okay, and I I said I wasn't going to put
you in that position. And if that judge is listening,
need no case to answer.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I think it's harder Brent, because like and the legal like,
I have a coach, right that can kind of help
me work through these these moments. And yeah, I do
have a flicit of that can help me out. But
and that's so busy if they're overloaded with work and
they can give you the advice here and there, but
they're not watching you and you're literally doing you.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
You you've got to make sure that you dot your
eyes and cross your t's for you to be what
you need to be at that moment in that courtroom.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Correct. And when you walk away and you take the
l and you got to that's really you're in it. Like,
so when you're like just like a spying session, you
got to conference is not and you don't really want
to get back in there or you may want to
try to prove yourself again.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
So, Troy, do you think that with your years of
professional boxing, the l's and the w's, the learns as
we call it, and the wings, the highs and the lows,
do you feel that it's giving you a lot of
confidence and strength to be able to accept those dressings
from the magistrate or the judge, you know, feeling a
little bit belittled, if you will. And that's me saying
(08:23):
that I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but you know
that that's that's a really hard pill to swallow for
somebody's confidence and I mean it's no different. I guess
when you jump in the ring with you feeling confident,
but knowing that this guy in front of me is
pretty sweet, he's good you know cut, Am I good enough?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I think it's like a reminder. I guess if anything,
they're like, you're just obviously my last fives of tap, appetite,
apetized old man. The one thing he just says off, yeah,
big tap.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
He's from Minnow, from down Campbelltown, right mate, Now, I
remember that taps back in the day.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
He's a legend. Is But like one thing always say
is just going to trust the process, right, and that
process isn't always winning, like it's it's just tacking those
hidings or attacking those ruins kind the magistrates. So when
I don't know if I could have done what I'm
doing now ten years ago because I didn't have that
experiencing lifter from the boxing. Yes, that's what boxings taught
(09:31):
me is that you just got to It ain't always
going to be easy, and sometimes when you're down, the
best thing to do is just put yourself in that
funnel position to you know, potentially take another hiding or the.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Broom is a boxing bout Yeah, those two ways about it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You're in there for the fight of your life.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
And and the thing is, there's something that is very
important I want to stress is finding the right legal
representation is imperative. You have to gel with your team.
Without going into that, it's not my journey to talk about.
But people know my story, so you know I spent
many years in a different life, different world, club life,
(10:11):
what have you. I had the same legal team for
twenty years, nearly and why because I knew at a
phone call, I didn't have to say anything. I didn't
have to speak. They knew what to say, They knew
where to get me, how to get me where I
needed to be, what to say to the judge or
the magistrate, my baiol if I was going to get bail,
presumption against bail, whatever the case might have been.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I never had to figure even to the point.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Of them contacting my wife and saying, hey, listenings they pinched,
you know, worse phone calls in the world, but they
knew what to do. Building and establishing a relationship with
a client in that manner takes a lot of trust.
You have to be able to perform because you have
my best interest, my family's best interest in your hands.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
My world is literally within your hands.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
How you instruct or what you do to deliver my
matter or fight for me has massive concert quence is
good or bad? How do you feel knowing that you
know these are the things that now you will have
to consider is the client's well being and welfare whilst
(11:18):
you're in charge of making sure whether you know I
shouldn't even say that because it's not ethical for me,
so that you're.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
A criminal lawyer your client's right.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I mean, I know that you advise best as and
it's up to then, obviously the client to great the
final decision. You can only give the advice to suggest
whether you feel that this is possible or not. Generally,
evidence is a huge thing that you know. Obviously everyone
in lies, So you now have this duty of care
(11:49):
if you will. How do you feel about that? It's
an added pressure too.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I think you know, obviously you're dealing with a client
if it's not the worst money and it's one of
the worst ones in their life, all the most funerable
moments in their life, So it is a bit of
pressure there. I guess obviously I'm not a solicity here,
So I don't really completely understand how that actually feels,
(12:17):
but I have spoken to a few of the slitters
about that. Yeah, and like that there is that level
of valid isn't it. It is a valid a valid question.
But to be your best at anything, you can't really
kind of like let that pressure womb over. Yeah, so
you kind of have to disconnected. But right, I think
you've got to. You kind of have to disconnect. I
(12:40):
think to an extent, you sawt of the empathy. You
go saw what to listen, you saw what to obviously
know what it is on the line, you would appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
So do you then say, Okay, I'm not allowed to
be emotionally invested in this.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I need to sit on the sideline, like emotionally you
definitely you can't be invested. Yeah, yeah, it just has
to be purely logical all the way through. Yeah, and
you can't like it's you like, you can't get upset
because that's just going to take your mind off the
next step. Right, you gotta like if you're if you
get given a bad decision, like obviously in a prehering
(13:16):
or whatever, it is, like you gotta from what I've seen,
anyway from the from THESS. You gotta be reading roll
off that next it's not getting punch. You gotta like
your head okay, cool to make sure I get it again. Yeah,
you gotta move on you to mom that next, the
next step thinking thinking, thinking ahead, yeah, boom boom boom,
Yeah how can I count that shot now? And then
you know, like yeah, I think the emotion needs to
(13:40):
can be completely stat completely away. I think I really
love what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
And this is the excitement of having you on because
I feel that the correlation between the two, you know,
is so relevant. You've you've stepped out of throwing hands
now throwing intelligence is like can put it in that way?
Because it is you. You have to think, like you said,
I personally think. I mean, look, no, I shouldn't say that.
(14:07):
I personally think, because yes, it can be like a
game of chess in the courtroom. Well, it technically is
in a lot of ways, but within boundaries and guidelines
to what level. And I've seen some historic let's just say,
legislations that are still under the carpet, but act be
pulled out and win matters in some good cases.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And I've looked and I've gone on.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
You, I had the right team at that moment. Now
they're few and far between, and it takes a lot
of years of experience, knowledge and matters. And mind you,
she is a barrister of one of the best, so
I wouldn't have expected anything less but to have her
pull a.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Rabbit out of a hat.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
But you know, she would always keep her cards very close,
especially in communication with crown and prosecutors and so on DPP.
And they're the things that you, if you're going to
stay in criminal law, have to, you know, learn to understand.
Is the web I'm going to call it. I'm going
to call it the web because it is a fucking web.
(15:12):
It's a web, and if if that rent backs in there,
it's going to strike you.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
You got to get fucking bitten.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
But how do you manipulate and move around that web
to not forgit?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So one thing that I was extremely surprised of when
like that web and again this is the way you
can't get emotional right and you can't make it personal
because you I'm not saying you'd be friends with these
prosecutors or whatever, but you've got to have like a
good communication going on because if it becomes personal, they're
gonna they're going to start put the mechan life so
(15:43):
much more difficult for you in your clant So you like,
in a way, you've got to just keep those emotions
at bay, and you've got to be tactical the way
you communicate, and at times you probably you probably need
to put the model and this is you know, be
a bit more forceful and their language when leading letters
or emails because they have to. But I found that
(16:05):
such a surprise, I think surprising the way that.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Now this is me saying this, Okay, so this is
to everybody out there listening, and I know that I
have a lot of people in the legal profession that
listen to my podcast and so on. Is this more
like the prosecution and the criminal defense being in bed
together so to speak?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
At times? Well, I wouldn't say it being a bid.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So that's that's like I said, I wor yeah, yeah,
but you get a kissed.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It's that fine line of being civil, right. I could
imagine two fucking fucking they get on the piece with
each other. Do you have every fucking wee can eat dinner?
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Bro, I have? Yeah? I could tell see I can
tell now way to ever speak about it.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
But there's some stories from twenty years ago that yeah,
there'd be several people sitting around certain bars in certain
places and they're no different than anybody else.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I'm sure, I'm sure I have it. Yeah, I'm sure
it happens, but all today is a bit different. Yeah,
it was. That was obviously being in the boxing community
and being around you know, those the people that are
in that community, and the opinions you have of obviously
the other side going into like you always have this
(17:25):
preconceived idea that you know it's the US is. Then
you know, that's what I was thinking, But it is
like it has to be that way as well, with
like the the civil dialogue needs to be needs to
be there, it has to be. I have to agree
with you and all jokes aside.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I totally get in respect what you're saying, and a
lot of people wouldn't because it is seen to be
that hang on a circumpaigning you to defend me. Why
the fuck are you're talking to why you you know,
people don't get why you need to sit down and
have dialogue with you know in a way that I
guess it maybe over a coffee or alone. Sure, maybe
(18:05):
you know, but it's in the best interest of the
client most of the time. I mean, it has been
proven there that there are times where there's been conflict
of interest and corruption within that sort of space. It
doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened, though.
Majority are for purposeful conversations, i e. Being for the
client to then have some sort of positive movement, hopefully
(18:30):
in moving forward in the case or the matter, that
allows you to be able to act in a way
that gives the best opportunity for the client to be
able to possibly win or come away with some sort
of better outcome than once expected.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Well, well, it would definitely create like that opportunity for
a bit, the outcome I think, like if you're I agree,
if you're given a hostile like I mean, I know
how i'd feel if someone was acting hostile towards me.
How but I fuck this guy. I want to be
you know, I'm not going to give him anything like
I'm I'm not going to the arrogance just won't get
you anywhere, will it? Exactly right? Like I mean, and
(19:06):
it happened like that. That dialogue happens a lot, like
I'm sure as you know, like a magistrate level, Like
there's there's a lot of conferences that go on, but
not coffee, Like I never really think prosecutors w have
coffee that.
Speaker 8 (19:17):
Becomes district and supreme weather that I signed, but it happened,
and it happened so often, and like those little rooms
in every courthouses have that you know, you have to
go away and sit down and figure it out.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But yeah, are you enjoying it? I am, man, it's
in the sense that it's challenging, like and then like
I'm starting again and I'm vulnerable and I'm figuring it out. Yeah,
Like the has been a little bit difficult in some
(19:53):
aspects as well, like not not positive, Like they're learning
a little bit more about the justice system and how
unfair it can be in many different ways. Man, Like
obviously the big one is that I think unless you've
got money, you kind of and you can afford those
those good barristers or whatnot. Like you amen, You're like
you kind of just got to accept the best thing
(20:15):
that you can have, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
But yeah, I want to just pick this nail on
the head because it's hot and you just and I
don't want to once again put you in any position
because this is me speaking, So just to be clear,
you talk about not being able to afford, and I've
people that know my journey. The last five years I
(20:37):
had been fighting an accessory art factor murder charge from
sixteen years ago. Now that case has ended with no
case to answer, which is fantastic, But what it costs
over those five years had I not been I guess helped, borrowed,
(21:00):
sold everything I owned, you know, like I had a
compense payout from being a sexually abused child at a
Catholic primary school, proven beyond doubt, and that money was
meant to help my children better their future. Was never
going to do anything to me, but what a little
amount was given for my traumas and the abuse was
(21:20):
always going to be to try and give my children
a head start.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
The moment that hit my account, I was arrested.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It was all very bizarre, and yes they had me
understail that it was just timing was impeccable on their behalf.
Now people talk about innocent until proven guilty. Now this
is once again me speaking. I'm not trying to put
you in a position of vulnerability, but I do believe
that you are guilty to proven in this I do
not believe that people have this conception correct. It is
(21:50):
a misconception. And as you said, if you can't and
let's briefly just touch on the fact of legal aid,
because that is the only opportunity you may be able
to get if you fall within the criteria the guidelines.
That is such a fine line to get assistance, and
even then you're not guaranteed. Now, I do know for
(22:10):
a fact that it is better today than what it
was many many years ago. Back in the day, you
would never get a duty solicitor or illegally. It was
just you didn't do it because you were never going
to run a good case with them. Today, I believe
it is very different, and it's allocated to many a
successful barrister's, QCs, solicitors, laws, whatever, you know, there's some
(22:33):
quality out there. So but for the average person who
might for example, own a vehicle that's ten grand that
gets them to work every day, you know, but is
a single parent or struggling, you don't fall within the
means test, and that's what they call it, the means test. Therefore,
(22:53):
you could have been like me for the case took
it for four or five years for giving it everything
found not guilty. But had you had not had financial
support or sacrifice everything that your family had to fight them,
it would have been a scenario of just fuck it.
I can't afford it, I can't get legal aid, I
(23:14):
can't I can't fight this. I'm just going to throw
my hands up and go and do the time, which
many people seem to be doing.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
It's almost like a sentence like on the sign, right like, yeah,
you're you're getting even if you found not guilty, but
you've been punished or by your fund's been gerined completely,
your your your stability or what obviously the funds that
you were received. You know, it's just been taken from
under and a plus all the stress added to it
(23:45):
as well, right like.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
It's a it's a tough rob bro, And I don't
think and I'm I'm actually grateful you actually touched on
it because I never talk about it, and people.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Like feeling, oh, you know you must be happy, you
can you.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Know, you can get calm, you can do There's no compensation,
There is no God. The only compensation is a not
guilty verdict committal and that's really that, right, There is
the best reward you could ever And I'm not complaining
because look, I'd rather have lost three hundred thousand dollars
pass having the best legal team to fight for something
that I was innocent against, then be convicted.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Or just be not be able to fight and go,
you know what, fuck it.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
I just have to cop this on the chin and
go and do five or ten years because something I
hadn't going to do with. And they're the realities of
what happens in our legal system. I don't know when
and how that'll ever change.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Brent, it's getting worse, mate, in my opinion, Like for me,
the one that really hear its me the most, and
this is pretty much one of the reasons that I
have feel like I had to skip away through. I'm
moving into compensation all by the way, but yeah, it's
like the DV court mate. That's the most horrific thing
I'm ever seeing. Like, and I'm sure like I'm not
(24:53):
taking anything away from those that actually do obviously get
you know the guy for people that do need orders
on them whatever, But oh no, it's absolutely necessary, but
over and above beyond what it should be. It's insane,
Like it just these guys coming for consoles and they're
just normal nice dudes. No, I don't. I didn't see
(25:14):
this coming. I didn't even like Like.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
When I was first arrested for this matter, I was
obviously bail refused. I was picked up coming home from
working the truck. It was all over the news, banging
gang bang. Well I'm locked up three months. For a month,
I couldn't get a phone call. I had no idea
I was going.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I was moved from watchhouse to watchhouse.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
My family didn't even know I was arrested at first,
you know, until I've seen it on the news what
they can do and legally do it, you know, and
get away at the next level. You know, the way
the system structured is for you to fail.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It really is.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
It's it's a very very fine line. And thank god
there is some out there and I am grateful to
the Queensland Law today that's seen my case for what
it should have been.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Mate.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You know, like fuck, I gave everything. I'm one of
these people that if I'm wrong, I put my hand up.
I've never sat there and gone, you know, if I'm
guilty or something. Oh no, I'm not guilt, Like, why
the fuck would you just deal with it, cop it
on the chin. You're big enough to do the crime
you did the time. That's easy in this case so
far from the truth. But every angle possible that they
(26:32):
could have come at, they used financially, emotionally, my family,
my you know, my work, ankle bracelets, two and a
half's reports and they just say you can't work like crazy?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
M How how does you know?
Speaker 4 (26:47):
How does that give you an opportunity or a chance
to fight for your right to freedom or the truth.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, I mean, like going back to the DV stuff,
because that's really like guilty to proven innocent, you know,
like guys will have young guys have like a career
respirations and then just that been slept with that order. Yep,
that life is over now, like it's done, Like you're
just because of an accusation that may have little to
(27:15):
no evidence whatsoever, and then it's it's you know, and
the jails are full of it.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
That That was what I was trying to say, Like
in the three months that I was in custody before.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I got my bail, I'd.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Done a lot of time when I was young and
rearly fourteen years, So for me, I understood.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Where I was going to and how the system was.
I had no idea. I walked into what I went,
What the fuck where am I? What is this?
Speaker 4 (27:43):
The caliber of krim if you will, or men in
there that was in custody, they were refused majority with
the DV and the majority were just little business heads. Yeah,
the average joe, Like they're not bad criminals or someone
that's gone and done a stick up or you know,
(28:03):
harm somebody in a way. Don't get me wrong, there
was definitely people they're deserving. I'm not saying that I'm
all for it in that respect, like so to anybody
out there listening on pro not for it. But the
reality is, this is something that is just it's filling
the system, feeling the courts, feeling the jails, and it's
it's fucking odd.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's almost like the way the courts and governance is
like it's a worthwhile sacrifice. These obviously men that are
getting incarcerated when they should never have been there in
the first place, like it, or or those that are
you know, committing suicide because you know they've just had
like all their reputations are gone just because of an accusation.
(28:46):
Like it's like a worthwhile sacrifice just you help out.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
You know, well, a lot of them are like I said,
like they're like white colar people like you're every day
you know, well dressed business person who yes, whatever, you know,
we're not going to discuss what other people's businesses are.
But at the end of the day, you don't know,
we don't know the truth. There's always two sides of
the story, and you see it firsthand, and so you're
(29:14):
you you've taken it already to the point where you
feel that criminals probably not the path you're going to
go down.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, I mean, I kind of it's definitely the opportunity
to be able to work in this job like early on,
like as an undergraduate and kind of immerse myself with
the law itself and figure out what I'm what's a
(29:45):
better suited for me, just obviously because of my business
degree that I have now and like I think litigation
was always it made sense to me, I think, like
just having that business knowledge and whatnot. But yeah, just
the injustice as well, I think is the thing Like
in I think at the end of the day, if
(30:06):
you're stressing a bit too much, you can't control.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
And then so Therefore, how does it not become emotionally
invested into you? Because it does, And I don't care
what anybody says. I've seen it with my own eyes
over the year, and the downfall of some of the
greatest lawyers embarrasss that have just had too much. They
just break down and can't cope, and it affects their
personal life. It affects them. It isn't just taking on
(30:33):
a job, isn't.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
No, that's not And then like to be a good lawyer,
like you've got to commit sixteen hours to your day
most days. Man like that. They live and breathe it
like they're working weekends, they go home and then there's
no balance for them, right, especially if they've got a
big meta coming up, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Which then turns into a lot of alcohol and drunks.
That's a lot of them deal with it.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You know the worst. The other thing I thought about
the injustice is that like at the magistrate's court, lots
of interpretation of the magistrate. But as you go up
by to the high courts, like the rule of war
is the rule of war, and they got to start
to effect effect. But like you're saying, like like one
matter we had recently, like it just looks so clear
and cut. This is the way it was going to go.
(31:22):
We were walking and we see the magistrate and we're like,
oh god, no, no one asked I would have. I
would have, you know, like you just know, like you
just know the outcomes of each magistrate, nothing in each.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, we'll leave that one there because we could go
down the rabbit hole on that one. Even I think
we both know exactly where that would end up, so
we won't. We will step away from that. And now
I want to ask you before we sort of start
to wrap this up, where are your goals and what does.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Troy Pilch you want to achieve moving forward? Do we?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Well?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Men, I've been lucky enough to be offered another opportunity.
I'm working now with fair warning from Warming's compensation. Was
that from U from Brisbane. It's exciting for me because
obviously it's a lettergate. Now that's I think, I think
that's my passion. I'll spend a little bit less time
in court or significantly less, like it's not you're not
(32:15):
out there obviously dimensions and whatnot. And I think very
really it goes to courts because it's all decided beforehand,
and there's a lot of different steps along the way
you got to go to before it does get there.
But I like the idea of you know, you're kind
of betting for obviously another person. That's how you don't negotiate.
(32:37):
That's right, that's right, I wish, But like it's it's
another person. It's like, you know, in one of the
worst area like times in their lives. Rather they're struggling
the vulnerable. You know, they're out of work because of
an injury that's out of the control. You know, they're
just trying to put food on the table for their family,
(32:58):
and you're taking, you're supporting a little bit taken on
the vegiturance company. So again that that fighting me like that,
that that excites me as well. So I'm jumped on
with this new firm and just a lot of young
hungry black mine my own just doing some all some
stuff mate, and the weapons to their guns. So I
(33:20):
love that. I love it.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
And that's that that makes me happy hearing you say that,
because it shows how humble you are. You know, you're
not going in cocky, You're not going in there thinking
that you know, you're going to just knock this out.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Of the park.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
You're a very humble man and you've accepted that, you
know you need to go back to the ground zero
and work your.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Way back up.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
So I want to commend you on that. I think
that just shows who you are as a mate. Well done,
well done on that, and I think that it's a
fantastic opportunity for you in life.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I'd love to talk further down the track and kicking
touch and I'm excited for you and where it leads
because I just feel that, you know, having the background
you've got, it makes sense in the direction you're heading.
You know, you're still fighting, so you have whilst it's
just like we talked about earlier, that void you've sort
of uh, well you feel that void. You've given yourself
(34:15):
that that drive and that's still that same mindset that
you would have to have every time you step into
that gym or the ring.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I mean even if I just gone to another job,
those that challenge that like the days that it was
faced with every day as a boxer, like I face
it again in another another area, right, like another another profession.
So just you just your average mundane job, just probably
wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't suit me. But then, like I say,
(34:43):
I say to you Britain, I just think so many boxes,
especially at that level, are capable of it as well,
and and whatever whatever they're interested in that, and I
just really hope that it all they all listen right now,
but anyone listening right now in the same situation like
I like, I believe in it, you know, like just
like others believed in me. And I just hope that
you know, you start planning for that that time, you know,
(35:04):
when you that exit from the sport, whether it's whatever
sport it is, you're capable, You're like, you're smart enough,
you've got you've got there that you'd be where you
are now. I thought if you didn't have those attributes here,
so great one.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Yeah, yeah, But I'm going to ask you before we
end this because it's important and I drop it on
every one of my guests.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I want to two of your best.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Tools in life to be able to leave in our
digital toolbox, because each episode we ask our guests for
two tools that at the end of each season of
ten episodes, you've got twenty tools to give to somebody
out there that may feel that they're not worthy or
can't achieve something in life that you know they always
dreamed of, but self that they could never reach the
pinnacle or get to that point of the start of it.
(35:50):
What would try filcher leave behind is two?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I want two of your best. The first one I
think is that you can never you can never get
through anything alone. I think I think God, whether it's
your friend or your mentals or whatever, you've got to
not speak them, but you got to acknowledge when they're
there into in your life and you've got to nature
that relationship. I think that's it's so important, Like that's it.
(36:15):
That's just networking, really, I guess, but like it's more
than that, Like you're never going to be able to
get the out of line. So it's just recognizing those
that want the bear fear and and like they're encouraging
you to a bit bring the best ones that breasted
out of yourself as well, so they'll probably be the
first thing. It's just recognizing those influential people that are
(36:35):
doing things that want the best fear. The second one
I think, I don't know if it's a talker sae,
but I think you just got to go out and
and face those challenges. You got to find them like, yeah,
it's that that's just how you grow, That's how you
become stronger. That's just take those losses. You just got
to You got to really like seek what's outside of
(36:57):
your comfort zone in the trenches. Indeed, that's just having
It's the only way you're going to You're Goanna, C're
going to grow and get better and yeah, and strengthen
your life. Up with you, Well, brother, I must say
I'm really inspired.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I've enjoyed and I hope that everybody out there has
gotten something out of this fantastic opportunity to have this
conversation with you today on the clink. Thank you very
much for your time. Wish you nothing but the greatest
in success. And I truly believe that whatever you put
your mind to, you will be. And I can see
it in your eyes when we talk, and the smile
(37:32):
on your face, the passion is there, and you know,
it's a beautiful thing. It really is, because as we
both know, life can be cruel and it can knock
a man down. It's about how you get back up.
And you know, I always ask my children, just be
one percent better every day and I think you know
you're the living.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Proof of that.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Just key chipping away at it and you're doing it mate.
So I want to say, well done, keep inspiring, and
thank you so much for giving your time to share
your journey with others out there today. And most of all,
Shoe and your family are very merry Christmas, buddy, and yeah,
I really do. And look, please let's get together and
(38:12):
have a coffee. And as I said, if you ever
need somebody to be in your corner, legally.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Brown always here. If I get grow up by the
magistrate of I'll get your call out. I get through it.
Just give me a quick call. We'll find another back
door somewhere. Yeah, same same few brand. Man, you're in time.
You're doing some great stuff. Thank community everywhere and just
bringing their message for those that really need it. You know,
so awesome work. Might keep it up and again send
(38:44):
your mirror Christmas. There you go, guyschre Pilcher. What a legend.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Look, I think a phenomenal story. He's in the fight,
and he's in the fight for the long time, long term. Sorry,
and you know, from the ring to the courtrooms, how
much more could you want? And I want to thank
everybody who's tuned in today and everybody to tongue in
there this year supported the Clink over the last four
and a half years, well over five million downloads. We
(39:09):
are the OG of the true crime podcast in Australia.
I'm very proud of that, and a big shout out
everyone that gets in and has a dig. I commend
you on the hard road and the long road, and
it isn't easy. But to those that are hanging in there,
well done and good luck on your journeys. To everybody listening,
Happy Holidays, to those that don't celebrate Christmas, to all
(39:30):
the Islamic brothers and sisters out there that listen, to
anybody out there who does, Merry Christmas and wishing you
are very happy and safe holidays. And from my family
to yours, I wish you nothing but a wonderful festive season.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Be safe.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And also, just before I finish, I just want to
pass my prayers and condolences on to all the Australians
that passed recently in one of the most horrific massacres
that we've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I'll leave it on that note fort a record, don't
try and make you out comfortableokta record, I grow down
the store for you. That's right for the record, live
on me, going all the way way for the record.
Ain't trying to link, No, trying to wait stop all day.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
For the record, for the record, for the for the record,
for the record.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yea for the record for the record.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah mhm
H approach production.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
For the record. I'm don't trying to make you uncomfortable
for the record. You ain't trying to grow any stuff
for your bright for the record, lab on me going
all the way the way for the record. Ain't trying
to link, No trying to waste.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Stuff for the record, for the record, for the for
the record, for the red for the record, for the record.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
For the record. I don't try and make you uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Right, oh man, it is something that I'll say. Like,
so as a as a law pluck obviously can't do trials,
can't run. So we're talking criminal law criminal or currently
I'm sorry, I'm just I've just moved on. For criminal
we can get it. We can get onto that a
(01:13):
little bit later. But like in criminal obviously there's a
lot of a lot of procedure, hearings. I guess I
mentioned and whatnot, and so I'm allowed I'm allowed to
It would be a guinea pig for this conversation. Do
you want to do?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
What do you call it when they do a is
it thesis? What the fuck is it? I can't I'm
not break.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
What do you do? Like like a study of you
need someone to study on, brother, please knock on my door.
I've got fucking years of it. I should have been
a lawyer. Embarrassed to myself? Can I a double I
don't explain too much this year?
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Then?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, So like I'm allowed to extra represent clients and
these mentions that they're not usually present. It's obviously the
benefit of heavy representation. They don't have to go to
court all these these procedures. But mate, like you've got
to know everything. And obviously I'm coming from, you know,
a background where you know you're not really been to.
(02:14):
You don't need to remember things or whatnot, except for
here for physical than intellectual. But yeah, I'm starting from
the bottom of again, right, And then I'm like, I'm
like a lot of people do know that I've come
from boxing. All the words going around, and I think
it's kind of in a way, it's it's nice because yeah,
a bit more supported, but.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Is there a little bit of when you do walk
into the courtroom in a fine dresser and you know,
people sort of turn around and go, oh, that's that's
try coilt.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
You know, I'm the last and the loa and there mate,
like and like when I go up and I have
to speak in these mentions. Mate, I've got more hiding
from magistrates and judges than.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
I ever have from Justice Herney or anybody Matey, they
like if you, if you, if you want to be
in a position you gotta you got to learn, you
got to take those spiring sessions and get beaten up
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
It's the only very correlating over its Yeah, it's difficult
to touch on that for a secon because that's I
didn't even think of it from that point of view.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
But you are literally going back into sparring, like you said, yeah,
with I guess words and an IQ because his reality
is you're crafty with your hands, but how are you
with your tongue and your mind?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And yeah, yeah, I didn't even think of this.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You'd be sad on your ass literally by a magistrate
was having a bad day, if you were inappropriately addressing
or you know, coming across in an unprofessional.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
If you will weigh Yeah, I think it's like it's
again just like boxing, you've got to prepare as best
you can and like you come undone when you like
you don't know everything you should So even if it's
just about a matter like you know your instructions in
this chilosphone carriage, and he'll tell you to go and
(04:05):
say these things. We'll mentioned these things. The judge give
the journalist reason or whatever, and you just go there
with those simple instructions. But if you don't know the
background of the actual meta or where it is currently procedurally,
if there's like committal metters going on or whatever whatever
it may be, If I don't know that and they
ask like you wearing ship, they'll snit their weakness on you,
(04:27):
and they will they'll let you know. Like there was
this one time, oh mate, I just crumbled, like I
was into strict court and then I was the first
up for the day. So I had a horn full
of barristers and solicitors and whatnot, and they're all sitting
there watching and obviously like, oh, how this fucking xbox
They're gonna, you know, take it. And then so I remember,
(04:49):
I just missed up my announcement.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I was going to say, introduting yourself with the firm
you're from and who you're representing.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Is that what you're referring to?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Correct, And this judge just like near straight away on
green like and then she just humiliated, the abstince wreck
out of me. I asked me questions for you, I
wouldn't have no ann answered to and I'm just breaking.
It's getting worse and worse, and they've got sitting out
of the court room just to gain instructions. She told
me to get and came back in and yeah, that.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
But people don't talk about these sort of things, and
this is this is actually very interesting, and thank you
for being so open about it because I understand, you know,
like there's certain language you can speak and can't and
I would not put you in a vulnerable position, but
that right there, it just goes to show that you
have to earn your stripes again. Like here you are
(05:43):
really and truly giving it. You're all You're there to
get to the bar for starters.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
This huge.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You're at the bar, you're actually you know, giving instructions
from a client to a judge, magistrate, whatever, whoever's residing.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And I only know.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
This because of forty years of court cases. Who's counting,
maybe thirty five?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But anyway, I should have been embarrassed as I said that.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I would have I would have done I might even
be able to sit down and help you at times,
just give me a call.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I need some advice. But I'm very no.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I won't even go into it on this because I'm like,
you're fucking hindered for it, but.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
It is how could I put it? That would be scary?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Like that would be scary, you know, your confidence would
be just knock clean out of you. And all you're
trying to do is learn grow and better yourself to
become greater something like that, Like that's that's a you know,
like you say, she she pulled you to pieces and
you know, basically humiliated. What the fuck would you do that?
(06:55):
To ask in a respectful way, but why would was it?
Do you feel that was to educate you better? Or
was it to literally say, hey, you're in the big
leagues now, buddy, young shit together?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I think Brandon's crew basically not to say yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Okay, and I I said I wasn't going to put
you in that position. And if that judge is listening,
need no case to answer.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I think it's harder Brent, because like and the legal like,
I have a coach, right that can kind of help
me work through these these moments. And yeah, I do
have a flicit of that can help me out. But
and that's so busy if they're overloaded with work and
they can give you the advice here and there, but
they're not watching you and you're literally doing you.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
You you've got to make sure that you dot your
eyes and cross your t's for you to be what
you need to be at that moment in that courtroom.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Correct. And when you walk away and you take the
l and you got to that's really you're in it. Like,
so when you're like just like a spying session, you
got to conference is not and you don't really want
to get back in there or you may want to
try to prove yourself again.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
So, Troy, do you think that with your years of
professional boxing, the l's and the w's, the learns as
we call it, and the wings, the highs and the lows,
do you feel that it's giving you a lot of
confidence and strength to be able to accept those dressings
from the magistrate or the judge, you know, feeling a
little bit belittled, if you will. And that's me saying
(08:23):
that I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but you know
that that's that's a really hard pill to swallow for
somebody's confidence and I mean it's no different. I guess
when you jump in the ring with you feeling confident,
but knowing that this guy in front of me is
pretty sweet, he's good you know cut, Am I good enough?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I think it's like a reminder. I guess if anything,
they're like, you're just obviously my last fives of tap, appetite,
apetized old man. The one thing he just says off, yeah,
big tap.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
He's from Minnow, from down Campbelltown, right mate, Now, I
remember that taps back in the day.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
He's a legend. Is But like one thing always say
is just going to trust the process, right, and that
process isn't always winning, like it's it's just tacking those
hidings or attacking those ruins kind the magistrates. So when
I don't know if I could have done what I'm
doing now ten years ago because I didn't have that
experiencing lifter from the boxing. Yes, that's what boxings taught
(09:31):
me is that you just got to It ain't always
going to be easy, and sometimes when you're down, the
best thing to do is just put yourself in that
funnel position to you know, potentially take another hiding or the.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Broom is a boxing bout Yeah, those two ways about it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You're in there for the fight of your life.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
And and the thing is, there's something that is very
important I want to stress is finding the right legal
representation is imperative. You have to gel with your team.
Without going into that, it's not my journey to talk about.
But people know my story, so you know I spent
many years in a different life, different world, club life,
(10:11):
what have you. I had the same legal team for
twenty years, nearly and why because I knew at a
phone call, I didn't have to say anything. I didn't
have to speak. They knew what to say, They knew
where to get me, how to get me where I
needed to be, what to say to the judge or
the magistrate, my baiol if I was going to get bail,
presumption against bail, whatever the case might have been.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I never had to figure even to the point.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Of them contacting my wife and saying, hey, listenings they pinched,
you know, worse phone calls in the world, but they
knew what to do. Building and establishing a relationship with
a client in that manner takes a lot of trust.
You have to be able to perform because you have
my best interest, my family's best interest in your hands.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
My world is literally within your hands.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
How you instruct or what you do to deliver my
matter or fight for me has massive concert quence is
good or bad? How do you feel knowing that you
know these are the things that now you will have
to consider is the client's well being and welfare whilst
(11:18):
you're in charge of making sure whether you know I
shouldn't even say that because it's not ethical for me,
so that you're.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
A criminal lawyer your client's right.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I mean, I know that you advise best as and
it's up to then, obviously the client to great the
final decision. You can only give the advice to suggest
whether you feel that this is possible or not. Generally,
evidence is a huge thing that you know. Obviously everyone
in lies, So you now have this duty of care
(11:49):
if you will. How do you feel about that? It's
an added pressure too.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I think you know, obviously you're dealing with a client
if it's not the worst money and it's one of
the worst ones in their life, all the most funerable
moments in their life, So it is a bit of
pressure there. I guess obviously I'm not a solicity here,
So I don't really completely understand how that actually feels,
(12:17):
but I have spoken to a few of the slitters
about that. Yeah, and like that there is that level
of valid isn't it. It is a valid a valid question.
But to be your best at anything, you can't really
kind of like let that pressure womb over. Yeah, so
you kind of have to disconnected. But right, I think
you've got to. You kind of have to disconnect. I
(12:40):
think to an extent, you sawt of the empathy. You
go saw what to listen, you saw what to obviously
know what it is on the line, you would appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
So do you then say, Okay, I'm not allowed to
be emotionally invested in this.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I need to sit on the sideline, like emotionally you
definitely you can't be invested. Yeah, yeah, it just has
to be purely logical all the way through. Yeah, and
you can't like it's you like, you can't get upset
because that's just going to take your mind off the
next step. Right, you gotta like if you're if you
get given a bad decision, like obviously in a prehering
(13:16):
or whatever, it is, like you gotta from what I've seen,
anyway from the from THESS. You gotta be reading roll
off that next it's not getting punch. You gotta like
your head okay, cool to make sure I get it again. Yeah,
you gotta move on you to mom that next, the
next step thinking thinking, thinking ahead, yeah, boom boom boom,
Yeah how can I count that shot now? And then
you know, like yeah, I think the emotion needs to
(13:40):
can be completely stat completely away. I think I really
love what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
And this is the excitement of having you on because
I feel that the correlation between the two, you know,
is so relevant. You've you've stepped out of throwing hands
now throwing intelligence is like can put it in that way?
Because it is you. You have to think, like you said,
I personally think. I mean, look, no, I shouldn't say that.
(14:07):
I personally think, because yes, it can be like a
game of chess in the courtroom. Well, it technically is
in a lot of ways, but within boundaries and guidelines
to what level. And I've seen some historic let's just say,
legislations that are still under the carpet, but act be
pulled out and win matters in some good cases.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And I've looked and I've gone on.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
You, I had the right team at that moment. Now
they're few and far between, and it takes a lot
of years of experience, knowledge and matters. And mind you,
she is a barrister of one of the best, so
I wouldn't have expected anything less but to have her
pull a.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Rabbit out of a hat.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
But you know, she would always keep her cards very close,
especially in communication with crown and prosecutors and so on DPP.
And they're the things that you, if you're going to
stay in criminal law, have to, you know, learn to understand.
Is the web I'm going to call it. I'm going
to call it the web because it is a fucking web.
(15:12):
It's a web, and if if that rent backs in there,
it's going to strike you.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
You got to get fucking bitten.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
But how do you manipulate and move around that web
to not forgit?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So one thing that I was extremely surprised of when
like that web and again this is the way you
can't get emotional right and you can't make it personal
because you I'm not saying you'd be friends with these
prosecutors or whatever, but you've got to have like a
good communication going on because if it becomes personal, they're
gonna they're going to start put the mechan life so
(15:43):
much more difficult for you in your clant So you like,
in a way, you've got to just keep those emotions
at bay, and you've got to be tactical the way
you communicate, and at times you probably you probably need
to put the model and this is you know, be
a bit more forceful and their language when leading letters
or emails because they have to. But I found that
(16:05):
such a surprise, I think surprising the way that.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Now this is me saying this, Okay, so this is
to everybody out there listening, and I know that I
have a lot of people in the legal profession that
listen to my podcast and so on. Is this more
like the prosecution and the criminal defense being in bed
together so to speak?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
At times? Well, I wouldn't say it being a bid.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So that's that's like I said, I wor yeah, yeah,
but you get a kissed.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It's that fine line of being civil, right. I could
imagine two fucking fucking they get on the piece with
each other. Do you have every fucking wee can eat dinner?
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Bro, I have? Yeah? I could tell see I can
tell now way to ever speak about it.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
But there's some stories from twenty years ago that yeah,
there'd be several people sitting around certain bars in certain
places and they're no different than anybody else.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I'm sure, I'm sure I have it. Yeah, I'm sure
it happens, but all today is a bit different. Yeah,
it was. That was obviously being in the boxing community
and being around you know, those the people that are
in that community, and the opinions you have of obviously
the other side going into like you always have this
(17:25):
preconceived idea that you know it's the US is. Then
you know, that's what I was thinking, But it is
like it has to be that way as well, with
like the the civil dialogue needs to be needs to
be there, it has to be. I have to agree
with you and all jokes aside.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I totally get in respect what you're saying, and a
lot of people wouldn't because it is seen to be
that hang on a circumpaigning you to defend me. Why
the fuck are you're talking to why you you know,
people don't get why you need to sit down and
have dialogue with you know in a way that I
guess it maybe over a coffee or alone. Sure, maybe
(18:05):
you know, but it's in the best interest of the
client most of the time. I mean, it has been
proven there that there are times where there's been conflict
of interest and corruption within that sort of space. It
doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened, though.
Majority are for purposeful conversations, i e. Being for the
client to then have some sort of positive movement, hopefully
(18:30):
in moving forward in the case or the matter, that
allows you to be able to act in a way
that gives the best opportunity for the client to be
able to possibly win or come away with some sort
of better outcome than once expected.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Well, well, it would definitely create like that opportunity for
a bit, the outcome I think, like if you're I agree,
if you're given a hostile like I mean, I know
how i'd feel if someone was acting hostile towards me.
How but I fuck this guy. I want to be
you know, I'm not going to give him anything like
I'm I'm not going to the arrogance just won't get
you anywhere, will it? Exactly right? Like I mean, and
(19:06):
it happened like that. That dialogue happens a lot, like
I'm sure as you know, like a magistrate level, Like
there's there's a lot of conferences that go on, but
not coffee, Like I never really think prosecutors w have
coffee that.
Speaker 8 (19:17):
Becomes district and supreme weather that I signed, but it happened,
and it happened so often, and like those little rooms
in every courthouses have that you know, you have to
go away and sit down and figure it out.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But yeah, are you enjoying it? I am, man, it's
in the sense that it's challenging, like and then like
I'm starting again and I'm vulnerable and I'm figuring it out. Yeah,
Like the has been a little bit difficult in some
(19:53):
aspects as well, like not not positive, Like they're learning
a little bit more about the justice system and how
unfair it can be in many different ways. Man, Like
obviously the big one is that I think unless you've
got money, you kind of and you can afford those
those good barristers or whatnot. Like you amen, You're like
you kind of just got to accept the best thing
(20:15):
that you can have, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
But yeah, I want to just pick this nail on
the head because it's hot and you just and I
don't want to once again put you in any position
because this is me speaking, So just to be clear,
you talk about not being able to afford, and I've
people that know my journey. The last five years I
(20:37):
had been fighting an accessory art factor murder charge from
sixteen years ago. Now that case has ended with no
case to answer, which is fantastic, But what it costs
over those five years had I not been I guess helped, borrowed,
(21:00):
sold everything I owned, you know, like I had a
compense payout from being a sexually abused child at a
Catholic primary school, proven beyond doubt, and that money was
meant to help my children better their future. Was never
going to do anything to me, but what a little
amount was given for my traumas and the abuse was
(21:20):
always going to be to try and give my children
a head start.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
The moment that hit my account, I was arrested.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It was all very bizarre, and yes they had me
understail that it was just timing was impeccable on their behalf.
Now people talk about innocent until proven guilty. Now this
is once again me speaking. I'm not trying to put
you in a position of vulnerability, but I do believe
that you are guilty to proven in this I do
not believe that people have this conception correct. It is
(21:50):
a misconception. And as you said, if you can't and
let's briefly just touch on the fact of legal aid,
because that is the only opportunity you may be able
to get if you fall within the criteria the guidelines.
That is such a fine line to get assistance, and
even then you're not guaranteed. Now, I do know for
(22:10):
a fact that it is better today than what it
was many many years ago. Back in the day, you
would never get a duty solicitor or illegally. It was
just you didn't do it because you were never going
to run a good case with them. Today, I believe
it is very different, and it's allocated to many a
successful barrister's, QCs, solicitors, laws, whatever, you know, there's some
(22:33):
quality out there. So but for the average person who
might for example, own a vehicle that's ten grand that
gets them to work every day, you know, but is
a single parent or struggling, you don't fall within the
means test, and that's what they call it, the means test. Therefore,
(22:53):
you could have been like me for the case took
it for four or five years for giving it everything
found not guilty. But had you had not had financial
support or sacrifice everything that your family had to fight them,
it would have been a scenario of just fuck it.
I can't afford it, I can't get legal aid, I
(23:14):
can't I can't fight this. I'm just going to throw
my hands up and go and do the time, which
many people seem to be doing.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
It's almost like a sentence like on the sign, right like, yeah,
you're you're getting even if you found not guilty, but
you've been punished or by your fund's been gerined completely,
your your your stability or what obviously the funds that
you were received. You know, it's just been taken from
under and a plus all the stress added to it
(23:45):
as well, right like.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
It's a it's a tough rob bro, And I don't
think and I'm I'm actually grateful you actually touched on
it because I never talk about it, and people.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Like feeling, oh, you know you must be happy, you
can you.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Know, you can get calm, you can do There's no compensation,
There is no God. The only compensation is a not
guilty verdict committal and that's really that, right, There is
the best reward you could ever And I'm not complaining
because look, I'd rather have lost three hundred thousand dollars
pass having the best legal team to fight for something
that I was innocent against, then be convicted.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Or just be not be able to fight and go,
you know what, fuck it.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
I just have to cop this on the chin and
go and do five or ten years because something I
hadn't going to do with. And they're the realities of
what happens in our legal system. I don't know when
and how that'll ever change.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Brent, it's getting worse, mate, in my opinion, Like for me,
the one that really hear its me the most, and
this is pretty much one of the reasons that I
have feel like I had to skip away through. I'm
moving into compensation all by the way, but yeah, it's
like the DV court mate. That's the most horrific thing
I'm ever seeing. Like, and I'm sure like I'm not
(24:53):
taking anything away from those that actually do obviously get
you know the guy for people that do need orders
on them whatever, But oh no, it's absolutely necessary, but
over and above beyond what it should be. It's insane,
Like it just these guys coming for consoles and they're
just normal nice dudes. No, I don't. I didn't see
(25:14):
this coming. I didn't even like Like.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
When I was first arrested for this matter, I was
obviously bail refused. I was picked up coming home from
working the truck. It was all over the news, banging
gang bang. Well I'm locked up three months. For a month,
I couldn't get a phone call. I had no idea
I was going.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I was moved from watchhouse to watchhouse.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
My family didn't even know I was arrested at first,
you know, until I've seen it on the news what
they can do and legally do it, you know, and
get away at the next level. You know, the way
the system structured is for you to fail.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It really is.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
It's it's a very very fine line. And thank god
there is some out there and I am grateful to
the Queensland Law today that's seen my case for what
it should have been.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Mate.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You know, like fuck, I gave everything. I'm one of
these people that if I'm wrong, I put my hand up.
I've never sat there and gone, you know, if I'm
guilty or something. Oh no, I'm not guilt, Like, why
the fuck would you just deal with it, cop it
on the chin. You're big enough to do the crime
you did the time. That's easy in this case so
far from the truth. But every angle possible that they
(26:32):
could have come at, they used financially, emotionally, my family,
my you know, my work, ankle bracelets, two and a
half's reports and they just say you can't work like crazy?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
M How how does you know?
Speaker 4 (26:47):
How does that give you an opportunity or a chance
to fight for your right to freedom or the truth.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, I mean, like going back to the DV stuff,
because that's really like guilty to proven innocent, you know,
like guys will have young guys have like a career
respirations and then just that been slept with that order. Yep,
that life is over now, like it's done, Like you're
just because of an accusation that may have little to
(27:15):
no evidence whatsoever, and then it's it's you know, and
the jails are full of it.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
That That was what I was trying to say, Like
in the three months that I was in custody before.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I got my bail, I'd.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Done a lot of time when I was young and
rearly fourteen years, So for me, I understood.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Where I was going to and how the system was.
I had no idea. I walked into what I went,
What the fuck where am I? What is this?
Speaker 4 (27:43):
The caliber of krim if you will, or men in
there that was in custody, they were refused majority with
the DV and the majority were just little business heads. Yeah,
the average joe, Like they're not bad criminals or someone
that's gone and done a stick up or you know,
(28:03):
harm somebody in a way. Don't get me wrong, there
was definitely people they're deserving. I'm not saying that I'm
all for it in that respect, like so to anybody
out there listening on pro not for it. But the
reality is, this is something that is just it's filling
the system, feeling the courts, feeling the jails, and it's
it's fucking odd.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's almost like the way the courts and governance is
like it's a worthwhile sacrifice. These obviously men that are
getting incarcerated when they should never have been there in
the first place, like it, or or those that are
you know, committing suicide because you know they've just had
like all their reputations are gone just because of an accusation.
(28:46):
Like it's like a worthwhile sacrifice just you help out.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
You know, well, a lot of them are like I said,
like they're like white colar people like you're every day
you know, well dressed business person who yes, whatever, you know,
we're not going to discuss what other people's businesses are.
But at the end of the day, you don't know,
we don't know the truth. There's always two sides of
the story, and you see it firsthand, and so you're
(29:14):
you you've taken it already to the point where you
feel that criminals probably not the path you're going to
go down.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, I mean, I kind of it's definitely the opportunity
to be able to work in this job like early on,
like as an undergraduate and kind of immerse myself with
the law itself and figure out what I'm what's a
(29:45):
better suited for me, just obviously because of my business
degree that I have now and like I think litigation
was always it made sense to me, I think, like
just having that business knowledge and whatnot. But yeah, just
the injustice as well, I think is the thing Like
in I think at the end of the day, if
(30:06):
you're stressing a bit too much, you can't control.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
And then so Therefore, how does it not become emotionally
invested into you? Because it does, And I don't care
what anybody says. I've seen it with my own eyes
over the year, and the downfall of some of the
greatest lawyers embarrasss that have just had too much. They
just break down and can't cope, and it affects their
personal life. It affects them. It isn't just taking on
(30:33):
a job, isn't.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
No, that's not And then like to be a good lawyer,
like you've got to commit sixteen hours to your day
most days. Man like that. They live and breathe it
like they're working weekends, they go home and then there's
no balance for them, right, especially if they've got a
big meta coming up, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Which then turns into a lot of alcohol and drunks.
That's a lot of them deal with it.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You know the worst. The other thing I thought about
the injustice is that like at the magistrate's court, lots
of interpretation of the magistrate. But as you go up
by to the high courts, like the rule of war
is the rule of war, and they got to start
to effect effect. But like you're saying, like like one
matter we had recently, like it just looks so clear
and cut. This is the way it was going to go.
(31:22):
We were walking and we see the magistrate and we're like,
oh god, no, no one asked I would have. I
would have, you know, like you just know, like you
just know the outcomes of each magistrate, nothing in each.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, we'll leave that one there because we could go
down the rabbit hole on that one. Even I think
we both know exactly where that would end up, so
we won't. We will step away from that. And now
I want to ask you before we sort of start
to wrap this up, where are your goals and what does.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Troy Pilch you want to achieve moving forward? Do we?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Well?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Men, I've been lucky enough to be offered another opportunity.
I'm working now with fair warning from Warming's compensation. Was
that from U from Brisbane. It's exciting for me because
obviously it's a lettergate. Now that's I think, I think
that's my passion. I'll spend a little bit less time
in court or significantly less, like it's not you're not
(32:15):
out there obviously dimensions and whatnot. And I think very
really it goes to courts because it's all decided beforehand,
and there's a lot of different steps along the way
you got to go to before it does get there.
But I like the idea of you know, you're kind
of betting for obviously another person. That's how you don't negotiate.
(32:37):
That's right, that's right, I wish, But like it's it's
another person. It's like, you know, in one of the
worst area like times in their lives. Rather they're struggling
the vulnerable. You know, they're out of work because of
an injury that's out of the control. You know, they're
just trying to put food on the table for their family,
(32:58):
and you're taking, you're supporting a little bit taken on
the vegiturance company. So again that that fighting me like that,
that that excites me as well. So I'm jumped on
with this new firm and just a lot of young
hungry black mine my own just doing some all some
stuff mate, and the weapons to their guns. So I
(33:20):
love that. I love it.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
And that's that that makes me happy hearing you say that,
because it shows how humble you are. You know, you're
not going in cocky, You're not going in there thinking
that you know, you're going to just knock this out.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Of the park.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
You're a very humble man and you've accepted that, you
know you need to go back to the ground zero
and work your.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Way back up.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
So I want to commend you on that. I think
that just shows who you are as a mate. Well done,
well done on that, and I think that it's a
fantastic opportunity for you in life.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I'd love to talk further down the track and kicking
touch and I'm excited for you and where it leads
because I just feel that, you know, having the background
you've got, it makes sense in the direction you're heading.
You know, you're still fighting, so you have whilst it's
just like we talked about earlier, that void you've sort
of uh, well you feel that void. You've given yourself
(34:15):
that that drive and that's still that same mindset that
you would have to have every time you step into
that gym or the ring.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I mean even if I just gone to another job,
those that challenge that like the days that it was
faced with every day as a boxer, like I face
it again in another another area, right, like another another profession.
So just you just your average mundane job, just probably
wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't suit me. But then, like I say,
(34:43):
I say to you Britain, I just think so many boxes,
especially at that level, are capable of it as well,
and and whatever whatever they're interested in that, and I
just really hope that it all they all listen right now,
but anyone listening right now in the same situation like
I like, I believe in it, you know, like just
like others believed in me. And I just hope that
you know, you start planning for that that time, you know,
(35:04):
when you that exit from the sport, whether it's whatever
sport it is, you're capable, You're like, you're smart enough,
you've got you've got there that you'd be where you
are now. I thought if you didn't have those attributes here,
so great one.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Yeah, yeah, But I'm going to ask you before we
end this because it's important and I drop it on
every one of my guests.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I want to two of your best.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Tools in life to be able to leave in our
digital toolbox, because each episode we ask our guests for
two tools that at the end of each season of
ten episodes, you've got twenty tools to give to somebody
out there that may feel that they're not worthy or
can't achieve something in life that you know they always
dreamed of, but self that they could never reach the
pinnacle or get to that point of the start of it.
(35:50):
What would try filcher leave behind is two?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I want two of your best. The first one I
think is that you can never you can never get
through anything alone. I think I think God, whether it's
your friend or your mentals or whatever, you've got to
not speak them, but you got to acknowledge when they're
there into in your life and you've got to nature
that relationship. I think that's it's so important, Like that's it.
(36:15):
That's just networking, really, I guess, but like it's more
than that, Like you're never going to be able to
get the out of line. So it's just recognizing those
that want the bear fear and and like they're encouraging
you to a bit bring the best ones that breasted
out of yourself as well, so they'll probably be the
first thing. It's just recognizing those influential people that are
(36:35):
doing things that want the best fear. The second one
I think, I don't know if it's a talker sae,
but I think you just got to go out and
and face those challenges. You got to find them like, yeah,
it's that that's just how you grow, That's how you
become stronger. That's just take those losses. You just got
to You got to really like seek what's outside of
(36:57):
your comfort zone in the trenches. Indeed, that's just having
It's the only way you're going to You're Goanna, C're
going to grow and get better and yeah, and strengthen
your life. Up with you, Well, brother, I must say
I'm really inspired.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I've enjoyed and I hope that everybody out there has
gotten something out of this fantastic opportunity to have this
conversation with you today on the clink. Thank you very
much for your time. Wish you nothing but the greatest
in success. And I truly believe that whatever you put
your mind to, you will be. And I can see
it in your eyes when we talk, and the smile
(37:32):
on your face, the passion is there, and you know,
it's a beautiful thing. It really is, because as we
both know, life can be cruel and it can knock
a man down. It's about how you get back up.
And you know, I always ask my children, just be
one percent better every day and I think you know
you're the living.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Proof of that.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Just key chipping away at it and you're doing it mate.
So I want to say, well done, keep inspiring, and
thank you so much for giving your time to share
your journey with others out there today. And most of all,
Shoe and your family are very merry Christmas, buddy, and yeah,
I really do. And look, please let's get together and
(38:12):
have a coffee. And as I said, if you ever
need somebody to be in your corner, legally.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Brown always here. If I get grow up by the
magistrate of I'll get your call out. I get through it.
Just give me a quick call. We'll find another back
door somewhere. Yeah, same same few brand. Man, you're in time.
You're doing some great stuff. Thank community everywhere and just
bringing their message for those that really need it. You know,
so awesome work. Might keep it up and again send
(38:44):
your mirror Christmas. There you go, guyschre Pilcher. What a legend.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Look, I think a phenomenal story. He's in the fight,
and he's in the fight for the long time, long term. Sorry,
and you know, from the ring to the courtrooms, how
much more could you want? And I want to thank
everybody who's tuned in today and everybody to tongue in
there this year supported the Clink over the last four
and a half years, well over five million downloads. We
(39:09):
are the OG of the true crime podcast in Australia.
I'm very proud of that, and a big shout out
everyone that gets in and has a dig. I commend
you on the hard road and the long road, and
it isn't easy. But to those that are hanging in there,
well done and good luck on your journeys. To everybody listening,
Happy Holidays, to those that don't celebrate Christmas, to all
(39:30):
the Islamic brothers and sisters out there that listen, to
anybody out there who does, Merry Christmas and wishing you
are very happy and safe holidays. And from my family
to yours, I wish you nothing but a wonderful festive season.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Be safe.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And also, just before I finish, I just want to
pass my prayers and condolences on to all the Australians
that passed recently in one of the most horrific massacres
that we've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I'll leave it on that note fort a record, don't
try and make you out comfortableokta record, I grow down
the store for you. That's right for the record, live
on me, going all the way way for the record.
Ain't trying to link, No, trying to wait stop all day.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
For the record, for the record, for the for the record,
for the record.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yea for the record for the record.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah mhm
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.