Does 'Longlegs' live up to the hype? Plus, Katy Perry tries feminism, and the ABC vs young people

In a culture-packed episode, Osman, Thomas and Mel discuss Shaun Micallef's return to the ABC and what it says about the broadcaster's failure to invest in younger creatives, and try to attract young audiences.

They unpack Katy Perry's disastrous attempt at a comeback, why Woman's World fails as a satire, and the likelihood of a Perry-renaissance.

Finally, they review the new horror film Longlegs, starring Nicholas Cage, and the star's recent performances. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:08):
Hey, I'm Usman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a
weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
where we dive into the latest in the world of
pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and
Mel Cambry. What is up gang?

S2 (00:22):
Morning, guys. How are we feeling? I just want to
put it on record that I've actually reached that stage
in my life where I've woken up from sleeping with
a sore back. So that's currently where I'm at in
my life.

S3 (00:33):
Yeah, I felt like a little GP this morning and
it was actually kind of fun. I enjoyed doing it.
I like sat down with Thomas and I listened to
all his symptoms, and then I gave him a diagnosis
of what did I a slipped disc, slipped disc.

S2 (00:43):
Yeah.

S1 (00:44):
That's quite severe, isn't it?

S2 (00:46):
That's an issue. I mean, I don't know if I
trust the diagnosis. I suspect it's just from, um, like,
obviously my shoulders are tight from carrying the team, etc.,
so I'm sure it'll be fine.

S3 (00:53):
And all that Boxercise you've been doing.

S2 (00:55):
Correct, Mel?

S1 (00:56):
Do you think you're the kind of person where if
you had you don't have a PhD, do you?

S3 (01:00):
Okay, rub it in.

S1 (01:01):
No. If you had a PhD and you're on a
flight and they were like, is there a doctor on board?
Would you be like, I'm a doctor?

S3 (01:08):
That is absolutely my dream. I was with a friend
once watching a movie. It was about a whale who
ate someone's arm and, And, um, the when the blood
scene happened, um, the friend fainted. Just could not handle
the blood. And someone yelled out, is there a doctor?
And six people put up their hands? It was like,
I was like, is this the most kind of. We

(01:29):
were in, um, on Oxford Street. So it was obviously
a very, uh, educated crowd, but I was like, I
want to be one of those people that in an
emergency can rise to the occasion, but at.

S1 (01:37):
Your PhD would be in like literature, and that would
not be helpful.

S3 (01:40):
I know, but I'd still put up my hand because
technically I'd be a doctor.

S2 (01:43):
You know what's crazy? I've always wanted that because, like,
I mean, we, the three of us collectively don't really
have any useful skills. Um, but.

S1 (01:51):
Like, I don't even have a degree.

S2 (01:52):
Do you not? Oh. That's crazy. My dad will be
so disappointed in you.

S1 (01:56):
But my dad is.

S2 (01:58):
My my brother in law. He is a nurse. And
he was once on a flight. He was doing like,
a round the world trip for six months. On the
first flight he was on, someone had a heart attack.
They did that. Is there a doctor on board? He
was the only person with like, medical training. He revived
this guy. They turned the flight around and flew back
to Melbourne. This guy survived. And then after that, the
captain came over to him and was like, come with

(02:19):
me and bumped his flights up to business class the
rest of his six month trip. Whoa, whoa. It was
like so then. And he was like, you know, he
was like a young guy. He was like in his
early 20s, and he just flew business class on his
round the world trip for like six months because he
saved this guy's life.

S3 (02:32):
That's incredible. I think I've told you before that I've
actually done the math on whether it would be too
late for me to become a medical doctor, like whether
financially I could make seven years of uni work for
the pay off you get when like when you become
a doctor. And I feel like the flights is adding
to my case for transitioning into into medicine. Though to
be fair, I'm kind of a practicing doctor right now,

(02:52):
as we saw this morning.

S2 (02:54):
Correct.

S1 (02:55):
Look, there's a lot that has happened in the past week.
We're going to try and fit it all in. Um,
a lot of stuff happening in the world and a
lot of stuff happening in the world of culture. Katy
Perry tried and failed to fix feminism. Thomas went to
war with the ABC again. And there's a new, terrifying
Nicolas Cage film longlegs. It was released into cinemas today.

(03:19):
We're going to discuss it all. But before we get
into that, there's one big topic. It's the elephant in
the room. I can't believe you guys didn't blow up
my text line about it. The trailer for Captain America
Brave New World was released.

S4 (03:33):
You and I, I haven't always agreed in the past,
but I want to make another run at making Captain
America an official military position.

S5 (03:43):
And if we disagree on how to manage this situation.

UU (03:46):
Then what happens? Work with me, Sam.

S4 (03:53):
We'll show the world a better way forward.

S1 (03:58):
What did you guys make of this one?

S3 (04:00):
Okay, obviously, the moment I saw it, I could not have, like,
the time distance between when I received the press release
and when I forwarded it on to you. 30s Max.

S1 (04:09):
And I'd already watched it five times in that time.

S3 (04:12):
I'm glad you're finally owning your Marvel head. Um, look,
a president running for re-election who wants to show the
world a better way and make Captain America an official
military position. I thought the trailer looked really good. And
the fact that we only saw a man in his armor.
His Captain America suit, at the very end of the trailer,
that was a real bonus for me. I thought they

(04:32):
made this seem like a political drama with a very
timely and relevant message.

S2 (04:37):
I couldn't be less keen to see this movie. It
looks so boring. Um, Harrison Ford is in his, like,
kind of cranky, cantankerous era. Like, well and truly now. Um, yeah,
I assumed that Osman, you got centered in some kind of, like,
Marvel head pre-release thing, and you add in like a
code and you get to watch it days.

S1 (04:55):
I did, I did bring this topic up as a joke,
but I am excited about Mel having actually watched it.
And I will also say like, I have no expectations
for anything Marvel does these days. Like it's all pretty terrible.
This trailer was not bad. Like firstly, it has Harrison
Ford in it, which is pretty good. And it also
gave off real strong like 70s spy thriller vibes like

(05:18):
the one of the best Marvel movies is Captain America
The Winter soldier, which is basically like the parallax view
of The Manchurian Candidate. Like this, this movie. Um, I'm
just gonna ignore that as I discuss very popular culture
that has driven the box office for the past, like
decade and a half. I don't have any expectations when

(05:39):
it comes to this movie, but I was, you know,
like I said, surprised that it seemed vaguely interesting and
had this kind of political subplot thing going on. Maybe
an assassination attempt on the president in one scene, which
feels weirdly timely. Did you watch the trailer, Thomas?

S2 (05:59):
I did watch the trailer.

S1 (05:59):
Yeah, and there was nothing in it that appealed to you.

S2 (06:02):
Not really is Anthony Mackie. I don't really love him either.
There was one line I thought was good. It was like,
you're not Steve Rogers.

S1 (06:08):
Yeah, that's the whole subtext going on here where like
Steve Rogers, played by Chris Evans, he's the Captain America
that everyone knows from like the movies. He's retired. He's
old now, I think at the end of one of them.
And then there was a whole TV show about Falcon,
and that's Anthony Mackie's character, and he's now taken on
the mantle of Captain America. And this is where I

(06:28):
get confused, because I'm not sure if it happens in
the series or it happens in real life, but people
are very mad that, like, this black guy is Captain America. Um,
and there was some kind of far right political thing
going on in the series. It's very complicated, but I
think the most important thing to remember is that Chris
Evans is gone. Anthony Mackie's in and he's struggling with

(06:52):
the mantle of being Captain America.

S3 (06:54):
And also that we have an expert to guide us
through all those complications.

S1 (06:58):
I clearly, from my attempted summary, I'm not an expert
in this space.

S2 (07:02):
But Harrison Ford is the president who no longer has
a mustache, I believe, based on the trailer.

S1 (07:07):
Well, I think that is a reference to the fact
that there was another actor who played that character earlier
who had a mustache. And I think that was like
a secretary of defense. And now he's become the president.
There's a whole different universe going on in.

S6 (07:20):
These movies, guys.

S1 (07:22):
Um, and in a not very subtle attempt to pivot.
Speaking of presidents, uh, there was obviously some significant news
on that front over the weekend. Uh, I don't want
to talk about this too much. It's not really the
podcast for it, but there was one bit of discourse
that really stood out to me. Obviously, there was an
attempted assassination of Donald Trump. There was one photo that

(07:46):
went viral in particular. I think basically every newspaper had
it on their front page. On Monday, it was a
photo of Trump with his fist in the air, his
sort of face bloody in the American flag in the background.
Evan Vucci, I believe, is the name of the photographer.
He's the chief photographer at AP. I think he's previously
worked for the Washington Post. He did a bunch of
really interesting interviews. There was also footage released. I think

(08:08):
he was wearing a GoPro, uh, as he was running
across to to grab that shot. And there was a
bunch of amazing photos taken by amazing photojournalists that day.
And a lot of people brought up the eerie similarities
to the movie Civil War that we talked about earlier
in the year. And it's so interesting because when we
were talking about that movie, one of the points we

(08:28):
made was how it felt so anachronistic and weird to
be talking about photojournalism in the near future, when everything
would be captured on smartphones and there'd be stuff streaming
all the time. And obviously with the Trump thing, there
was a lot of video footage, but it was quite
remarkable to me how much singular photos captured this. And
it was not necessarily clips that went viral as much

(08:50):
as like a particular shot. And again, I just thought, wow,
like eerily prescient of that movie to discuss the importance
of people who just capture a still shot at a
particular point in time, the bravery involved, I guess, in that,
and also how they capture our imagination. So do you
guys have any thoughts on that?

S3 (09:08):
Yeah, I think that image will define that moment for history.
And it does show the power of photojournalism and in fact,
all of the photos that were taken that day were
really quite incredible. Some of those ones that captured the
bullet going by the ear. New York.

S1 (09:23):
Times photo. That's crazy.

S3 (09:25):
Yeah, but it does really show the need for photojournalism
and how it's hard to the role it has to in,
like capturing the essence of a moment and distilling it
for a much bigger audience.

S2 (09:39):
Yeah, it's pretty crazy because he ran back over when
everyone else was basically running away. Um, yeah, like it
was we spoke so much about, you know, like Kirsten
Dunst kind of playing that, like, you know, grizzled photojournalist,
which doesn't really feel like it exists that much anymore,
like in this really kind of weird landscape that we're
in now. But, I mean, you know, this photo is
proof that it is still so important. Um, just the

(10:00):
whole that whole thing is just so crazy. And, you know,
we've spoken a lot about obviously tenacious D, having cancelled
their entire world tour after comment on stage by one
member of the band. Like it's just become this all
consuming story now. Um, it's it's truly a strange time
to be living in. And to me.

S3 (10:16):
That photo actually kind of was reminiscent to me of
another one, the kind of Iwo Jima famous photo. Yeah, yeah,
like just that pyramid kind of composition with the flag
in the background. So it's kind of interesting how maybe
part of the power of this photograph relied on the
echoes that had of a very famous past photograph that
has a big, important meaning in us.

S1 (10:36):
And a great Clint Eastwood film, Flags of Our Fathers.
Remember that one? Mhm. And then he shot it from
the Japanese perspective as well. That was a crazy like
year where Clint Eastwood released two movies about the same thing,
but from the Western perspective and from the Japanese perspective.
He's got to bring it back to film. We are
a culture podcast after all. Um, and the tenacious D thing.
I won't get into that one too much, but very odd.

(10:58):
If you said to me when and why would tenacious
D break up, I would not have said on the
eve of their Newcastle show as a result of a
attempted assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump. It's very,
very strange stuff.

S2 (11:12):
Yeah, but also in the tenacious D universe, it kind
of makes sense, you know.

S6 (11:16):
Like.

S2 (11:17):
It's.

S1 (11:18):
Is that. Are you are you the expert to that
the way that I am the MCU?

S2 (11:21):
Yes. Yeah. That is my universe. Um, we are but men.

UU (11:26):
We are but men Brock are.

S2 (11:31):
Great song tribute had a had a real listen to.

S1 (11:34):
That again this morning. And I was like, yeah. When
I was like 12, I knew every single word to
this song. We were singing it to each other at
school every day.

S2 (11:40):
Yeah, I know, and this is the thing. Like, we've
been covering it a bit like the, you know, tenacious
D story. And I said to Mel this morning, okay,
if I say to you, um, are you angels, what
would you say to me? And she just like blank face.
And then another caller turn around was like.

S6 (11:53):
Nay, we are Batman. I was like, right, so you
you were you were cool.

S2 (11:57):
In the in the 2000.

S3 (11:58):
Yeah. I have not thought about tenacious D, I think
until this moment for a very long time. You know
what's very funny?

S2 (12:04):
That I learned about them today, though. They had a
three episode HBO series that was produced by David Cross
and Bob Odenkirk. Oh, wow. So there you go. And
they met. They met Dave Grohl at the Viper Room,
the kind of like, Los Angeles hotspot. So, look, they've
got a history. Um, but, yeah, it's weirdly, maybe the
story of tenacious D came to an end in in Sydney.

S1 (12:25):
And just before we move off of Trump. Mel. really
big result for you this week at the Republican National
Convention in Milwaukee, with Trump selecting JD Vance, the best
selling author of a book, as his vice presidential pick.
How do you feel about that? I don't know.

S3 (12:43):
Do you only like your hillbilly allergies when they're accompanied
by music?

S1 (12:48):
You've been rehearsing that one.

S6 (12:50):
I can see you were.

S3 (12:52):
Gonna come at me. Look, actually, I think it was
either going to be JD Vance or Oliver Anthony. So
maybe this.

S6 (12:58):
Is the the.

S3 (12:59):
Better outcome.

S1 (13:00):
Here. Oliver. Anthony. Becoming a rich man north of Richmond
is a twist I would not have seen coming. That
is amazing.

S3 (13:06):
Yeah, I mean it it it makes some sense though.
JD Vance has very famously been vocally anti-Trump in the past,
but his book did have well, it was very popular
with conservatives and had a bit of that Trumpism American
dream element to it. Pulling yourself out of the bootstraps
to to make yourself successful. So it does make sense,

(13:26):
I guess, politically. Um, but yeah, he's obviously going to
have to overcome all the comments he's said about Trump.
I like saying.

S1 (13:31):
It doesn't make sense politically. You were just giving us
political analysis.

S6 (13:35):
On Trump's vice presidential pick. Did you want literary?

S1 (13:38):
I did well. I, like you, said it was popular
amongst conservatives. It was also very popular amongst like like liberals,
like smaller liberals. In that time, I think it was
in the lead up to the Trump election, and everyone
wanted to understand the white working class, and he sort
of seemed to diagnose it. Um, I have not read
the book. I don't really have much of a desire to.
I have seen the film with Glenn Close and Amy Adams,

(14:00):
and it is awful, really bad, I think so bad
that it is credited with kind of basically killing or
significantly stalling Amy Adams's career. But I also did see
that JD Vance has, like, shared quite a few pop
culture takes on Twitter. People found his, uh, his his
sort of capsule review of The Last Jedi, the Star

(14:21):
Wars sequel film that was actually the good one, the
slightly wacky one that a lot of conservatives hated because
it was like too woke or whatever. And he seemed
to agree with that. So we have our first vice
presidential candidate with a take on the Star Wars sequel series.
So it's exciting times for culture heads.

S3 (14:39):
Yeah, I think that's that. That's a good part of this.

S2 (14:42):
Yeah. I mean, it was all very crazy. I was
like in the kind of rush to discuss this as
it was unfolding, I accidentally texted my brother and I
was like, hey, did you see that Trump picked Bagger
Vance as his running mate? And then he was like,
do you mean the movie starring Will Smith?

S6 (14:58):
I was like.

S1 (14:59):
Jack Vance.

S2 (15:00):
I was like, The legend of Bagger Vance. Yeah, but
it did make me think. Melanie, given, you know, this
is such a big moment for you as our official
books correspondent, if you had to pick a running mate
that was an author, who would you choose to be?
Your right hand man or woman?

S3 (15:14):
I love this question. Um.

S6 (15:16):
No doubt.

S3 (15:17):
Look, we kind of briefly discussed this earlier, and I
wanted I almost got annoyed at me because I wanted guidelines.
I was like, do they have to be living or
can they be dead? Do they have to be an
Australian citizen or well.

S1 (15:28):
Why do you ruin everything?

S6 (15:30):
Someone knowing.

S3 (15:30):
Parameters? Anyway, yes, Thomas said, I've got to.

S1 (15:34):
Be living over 35 and born in the United States
as per the Constitution.

S3 (15:38):
Okay, great. Well, I've had to think about it then.
And one of the ones I would think Margaret Atwood. Okay. Firstly, I.

S6 (15:45):
Think famously.

S1 (15:45):
Canadian, I'd say.

S6 (15:47):
Well, he said he didn't.

S3 (15:48):
Okay.

S6 (15:49):
Both of mine are. No, no, I.

S1 (15:50):
Just made up those rules on the spot.

S6 (15:51):
I just made up those rules. You're allowed to pick.

S3 (15:53):
Margaret's just generally. Margaret Atwood 84. I think we'd get
on just.

S6 (15:58):
She's 84 right now, younger.

S1 (16:00):
Than Joe.

S6 (16:01):
I think we'd.

S3 (16:02):
Get on just personally, from what I've read and seen
of her, I think she's got mass appeal, which is good,
and she's also got a lot of cultural kudos, and
her books are strangely prescient. So I think she has
an ability to read mood and see into the future. Um,
the other running mate I thought would be good would
be Elena Ferrante, because imagine if my political campaign caused

(16:23):
Elena Ferrante to lose her anonymity. She was like, I
have not revealed who I am, but I care about
this call so much I'm going to name myself.

S1 (16:31):
Yeah, there's definitely going to be an Elena Ferrante birther movement.
Like we want to see this certificate. We need to
know who she is. Imagine if it ends up being
like a 42 year old New Yorker. That'd be really.

S6 (16:40):
Funny. Yeah.

S3 (16:42):
Um, so, yeah, I think both of them are good
options for different reasons. Um, obviously if I had different guidelines,
I would have picked different authors.

S1 (16:49):
And on this, on this like platform that you're like,
what are your what's your running on? What's what's your
policy platform?

S6 (16:55):
What is what is the.

S1 (16:56):
The kembrey outward slash Ferranti ticket. Like let's say it's
outward as your VP and Ferranti is your secretary of state,
what are the top three ideas you've got?

S3 (17:05):
Um, let's make books. Great again.

S6 (17:07):
That's that'll be the first one.

S3 (17:09):
Books for everyone. Um, I think they're the key. They're
the key policy points.

S2 (17:14):
I would vote for you.

S6 (17:16):
Thank you.

S3 (17:17):
Thank you. Who are you running with?

S1 (17:19):
Who you got?

S2 (17:19):
Look, I kept mine local. Um, like, who would be
my deputy PM? I mean, I know it's not as
big a deal, is it, Vince Colosimo? It's actually Nick. No,
it's I, I went with Tim Winton, like.

S1 (17:33):
Oh my God. No.

S6 (17:34):
Because okay.

S2 (17:34):
Firstly the guy is has got the you know, he's
got the ear of the nation. People love Tim Winton.
Like regardless of lots of people what you think of him.
But like he is, you know, kind of like what
people think of when they think of Australia. Um, he
cares about the environment. Yeah.

S3 (17:50):
What's your campaign? Abalone fishing.

S2 (17:53):
I think it's going to be good to get like
get that wa vote so big over there.

S1 (17:57):
That's true, that's true. It so goes wa so goes
the nation.

S2 (18:00):
Exactly. Broad populist appeal. Um. And I don't think he'd
be a threat to me.

S3 (18:05):
Um, what about when you have to. Would you make
him style his hair for when you go to kind
of overseas meetings, or you're going to embrace the surfer chic?

S2 (18:12):
I think he'd have the kind of Boris Johnson appeal of, like,
he's a bit crazy. He's a bit like unkept. And
that's kind of the point. That's the selling point. I
could be the slick one. And then here's my crazy
friend Tim, and you could.

S3 (18:23):
Go for a surf.

S2 (18:24):
Exactly. And he's, you know, we're both just like out
there talking about tortured masculinity.

S3 (18:30):
Just what we need more of.

S2 (18:31):
Uh, Osmond, obviously over to you. Who would you. I mean,
the fact that you would even allow a running mate
is insane.

S1 (18:38):
I know, unfortunately, the Constitution requires me to nominate a
vice presidential candidate. Um, I am going with Sally Rooney. Uh,
I think I.

S6 (18:48):
Would have the entire American.

S1 (18:49):
I would have the entire youth vote sewn up with her, basically.

S6 (18:55):
Yeah, I thought about Rooney too. I don't know, active.

S1 (18:59):
She's very smart. Mhm.

S3 (19:02):
I think though doesn't she not travel out of Ireland
anymore because of the environmental footprint. And also I mean
she makes sense her.

S6 (19:10):
Sorry. Are you now like fact checking.

S1 (19:12):
What are you talking about.

S6 (19:12):
Someone said Tim.

S1 (19:13):
Winton. You said Margaret Atwood and Elena Ferrante who's a
made up person, that no one knows who they are.
What are you.

S6 (19:19):
Talking.

S2 (19:22):
I the only thing I think about Rooney, though, is
that I do think she is the type to probably
knife you and. Yeah.

S1 (19:28):
Yeah, yeah. No, no totally. She is. It's kind of like,
keep your friends close your enemies closer kind of thing.
I'd rather run with Rooney than against her. And then,
you know, she would blackmail me or threaten me, and
I'd happily step aside at that point, and I would
go down in history as the man who helped elevate
Sally Rooney to the presidency. So she would.

S2 (19:46):
Be your bag of ants.

S3 (19:48):
You guys would just sit around doing so much debating
about Marxism.

S1 (19:52):
Who'd you reckon has sold more books like JD Vance
or Sally Rooney? Can we check this?

S2 (19:58):
Probably Sally Rooney.

S3 (19:59):
Yeah, I think Sally Rooney.

S1 (20:00):
It'd be pretty crazy if that's not the case. Okay,
so JD Vance has in fact sold more copies of
Hillbilly Elegy than Sally Rooney sold copies of Normal People
1.6 million versus 1 million. So, I mean, Trump knows
what he's doing. This guy sold a lot of books.

S2 (20:19):
Cloud street sales.

S1 (20:23):
All right. Let's talk about the.

S6 (20:25):
Real things.

S1 (20:26):
We're here to talk about.

S6 (20:28):
Let's just keep.

S3 (20:28):
Talking about.

S6 (20:29):
This. Yeah.

S2 (20:30):
You know that the reviews are going to come flooding
in like more book content with, well.

S6 (20:34):
You wanted book.

S1 (20:34):
Content. Here you go.

S2 (20:35):
No.

S1 (20:35):
4 p.m. Rooney versus JD Vance. First Margaret Atwood. Who
else is giving you this content? Um, last year on
the show, guys, we had a discussion about the state
of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, otherwise known as the ABC. Um,
in particular, we discussed the ABC's inability lately to really

(20:55):
connect with younger audiences. We discussed Fran Kelly, the long
time RN breakfast host, moving to prime time TV to
host a chat show called frankly. We suggested that it
seemed like the ABC was missing opportunities to give a
younger generation access to those kinds of platforms. Instead, they
seem to just be doubling down on people who'd been

(21:16):
at the broadcaster for a very long time. Some people
did not like our comments. A lot of people in
the ABC and outside the ABC said, thank you so
much for talking about an issue that is really impacting
our relationship with it. Um, but yes, there was some
concern that we were being sexist and ageist. In fact,
Ida Buttrose, then the chair of the ABC, had a
pretty personal crack at me in The Australian newspaper. But,

(21:37):
you know, water off a duck's back. That's what you
get for being an honest, truthful and brave critic. Um,
so here we are this week, Thomas, you kind of
restarted that debate a little bit by discussing Sean McAuliffe's
return to ABC TV. Tell us a little bit about
why you wrote about it and what you said.

S2 (21:56):
Yeah, well, uh, he's got a new show coming called
the Eve of destruction. And just when we got the release, immediately,
it kind of took me back to that Fran announcement
for a few different reasons at the time, especially like,
you know, I was very clear in my original opinion
piece on Fran Kelly that it was nothing to do
with Fran as a broadcaster or a person. Like she's very,

(22:17):
very talented and, you know, industry veteran. But I just
thought that the opportunity to host one of these chat
shows was like was going lacking for, you know, young,
fresh faces, but particularly a few people were kind of
at the time were like, oh, you know, you wouldn't
be saying this if a man was getting this opportunity.
And then fast forward to the present, and Sean McAuliffe
has been given this opportunity. So I guess in that way,

(22:38):
I wanted to highlight the fact that, you know, it
is the same issue once again, but also, strangely, like
Sean McAuliffe was the very first guest on the very
first episode of frankly. And she asked him at the time, like,
why did you step away from Mad as Hell? It
was still going so well? And he said, I genuinely
wanted to give the microphone over to someone who was
perhaps younger or some different voices, and that's been a
big thing he's kind of been discussing ever since he

(23:00):
left Mad as Hell in 2022. Um, you know, the
need for ABC to nurture young talent, particularly in the,
you know, that kind of like live comedic panel space, like,
you know, there are some great comedies on ABC getting
commissioned by young writers, but that kind of those particular
shows that are an avenue for comedians often like are
hard to come by. Uh, and then then here we are.

(23:20):
Suddenly Shaun Micallef is back hosting essentially a chat show
with a rotating roster of guests, like the exact kind
of show that a young comedian would kill for, and
even in the promo for the show. So the show
starts in a few weeks, August 14th. But even in
the promo for the show, he kind of pokes fun
at the exact issue.

S7 (23:37):
Two years ago, I resigned from television to make way
for bright new young talent here at the ABC. As
it turned out, there wasn't any. So I'm back doing
a new show in which I asked guests.

S2 (23:47):
And yeah, I just thought it was an interesting time
to have a look at, well, you know, what is
going on at the ABC. Like, I think Micallef was
poking fun at the fact that the ABC really does
believe there aren't many bright, new young faces that can
be trusted with a show like this. And it's one thing,
you know, to have a roster of shows where perhaps
young comedians get a five minute slot, or they get
to go on an episode in a series and, you know,

(24:09):
they can appear. And that's all well and good. But really,
you know, to be given the responsibility and the trust
of being able to lead one of these shows is
something that's going to change people's careers. And and at
the same time, more importantly, draw young people back to
the ABC because we all know, like the reality is
young people don't have a relationship with the ABC anymore.
So I just thought it was interesting that we're back

(24:29):
in the same place. And, you know, lo and behold,
I think the response has been, if you, you know,
we wrote about it, the comments are very, I think,
quite mixed. But lots of people being like, yeah, I mean,
this is a sad indictment on where the ABC is at.

S1 (24:41):
You really, really well put. I think the bit that
really stood out to me is the fact that Shaun
Micallef said when he left and said to you, yeah,
I want to take a step back. I don't want
to help mentor and train a bunch of young comedians.
12 months later, he's just like making fun of the
fact that they tried to do that, couldn't and gave
him the show. It's not his fault. Like, good on
the guy for being on his show. He's very funny.
He'll do a good job, I think, but it really

(25:03):
does reflect the ABC's long term failure to both nurture
a new generation of comedic talent, and to the ones
that they did nurture, are the ones who have come
to them, their failure to give them an opportunity and
to take a risk by putting them in a prime
time slot, hosting their own vehicle, like we talked about
this last time. Will Anderson, I think was 26 when

(25:23):
he hosted The Glass House. Can you imagine the ABC
like finding a smart young person on YouTube or whatever
and saying, hey, you should host a chat show or
a comedy show or whatever right now. It just seems unfathomable.
And I think the real problem here is that the
ABC has fumbled this for so long that an entire generation,
in fact, now we're talking two generations of people, millennials

(25:44):
and Gen Z, who don't think of the ABC as
their home. And so the ABC is like, well, the
only audience we have left are older people. So rather
than trying really hard and spending a lot of money
and taking a lot of risks to bring younger people back,
what if we just kept serving them up? Frank Kelly,
Sean McAuliffe, Virginia Trioli and that will make them happy
and someone else in ten, 20 years can deal with

(26:06):
the fact that there's no audiences left to watch it.
That's sort of my take on it.

S3 (26:11):
Yeah, I think that's that's true. And it's a long
term structural problem for legacy journalism organizations such as the ABC,
where they're struggling to bring in a new audience. And
it's very clear that where they're trying to bring in
that new audience is online. But then it obviously does
raise the question of what will the point of the

(26:31):
television channel be long term in the future? And obviously,
that's not a question that needs to be answered in
the next few years. But eventually, like, there's going to
be a have to be a reckoning for free to
air television. Um, I do think it's kind of I
think the ABC has tried to neutralize this discussion by
allowing Micallef to put out that trailer where he pokes

(26:52):
fun of the ABC, rehiring him like, I think they've
tried to get ahead of that concern, but I'm glad
people are not letting them get away with it and
then asking questions. Thomas, it.

S2 (27:02):
Is very funny. Sorry. I just like in real time,
like Shaun Micallef was just retweeted the story, um, with
the caption the reviews are in, uh, and people like
Patricia Karvelas and Tony Martin are quick to support him.
But look, you know, like it's funny, even reading these
comments now, I think, like, you know, people genuinely do

(27:22):
have a problem with like what the ABC is doing
and you've kind of got this weird divide where it's like,
do we do we just, you know, call a spade
a spade and be like, okay, well, this is just unfortunately,
the reality of the ABC. They've given up on trying
to connect with anyone that's not already like a rusted
on audience. And maybe that is the case. And so like,
we're just kind of like yelling into the abyss at
this point about like, issues that don't really matter to

(27:45):
them and maybe don't really matter to the audience that
they're missing, but it feels like it's always worth kind
of like trying to make the point that, yeah, this
is a public broadcaster designed for everyone, and if you
don't at least try, what kind of message does that send?

S1 (27:56):
Yeah, I think I think that's a really good thing
to point out. I think there's a couple of bits
to that is like, firstly, anyone who says you are
not allowed or we're not allowed to discuss what the
ABC is doing. Like that's just a ridiculous argument. Like
this is a not just it's not just the fact
that it's funded by taxpayers. And like young taxpayers have
stories and content aimed at them. More importantly, like it's

(28:16):
in its mandate, in its charter to make stuff for everyone.
And it is our role as like both participants and
public discourse, and specifically journalists who cover this stuff to
interrogate what it's doing. Like that's number one. Number two,
we at our publications and as individuals here spend probably
more time covering, reviewing and discussing ABC stuff than anywhere

(28:40):
else everywhere else combined. Honestly, like, we're not just sitting
here only engaging to take potshots at the ABC. We
cover the good stuff, we shout out what we like
and we discuss what we think needs to be improved.
And then yeah, the final point here is it's our
job does our responsibilities with the platforms and the time
and the roles that we have as journalists and as
critics to provide our thoughts on what is working and

(29:04):
what isn't working? And I think it's fine. Good. On
Patricia Karvelas and whoever else who wants to get upset
and take this personally. That's they're allowed to do that.
I don't think any of the points that you made, Thomas,
or any of the points we're making our personal at all,
if they want to take them personally to deflect criticism,
that's on them. But these are big structural conversations that
are being had at the ABC, and we're not speaking

(29:25):
to a vacuum. There are lots of young comedians at
the ABC, lots of young writers, lots of young actors
who are begging the broadcaster for more opportunities. So I
think it's a really important conversation, and I'm really glad
you kicked it off this week.

S3 (29:37):
And I want to see the Venn diagram of crossovers
between hot chocolate lovers and Shaun Micallef lovers.

S6 (29:43):
Yeah.

S2 (29:44):
I suspect it would be quite large.

S1 (29:46):
Uh, guys, I got a question for you. It's not
about the ABC. It's. When is the last time you
guys thought about pop star Katy Perry?

S2 (29:58):
The 17th of September, 2013, when John Mayer released the
video clip for Who You Love, which starred then girlfriend
Katy Perry, and the pair of them kissing slowly in
the video and riding a mechanical bull in slow motion.

S1 (30:11):
Wow. Incredible answer. Incredible answer.

S3 (30:13):
Mine probably about 15 seconds ago, because I've not really
stopped thinking about Katy Perry since this song was released.

S1 (30:22):
That's weird. That's weird. Um, she was the last artist
I saw perform before Covid, believe it or not, uh,
in in 2020, I went to the women's T20 World
Cup at the MCG. Uh, was India vs Australia? I
just moved to Melbourne and I went on my own.
I was very excited to go to the MCG for
the first time and watch this sold out World Cup.

(30:42):
And she was the entertainment and it was like kind
of fun at the time. If I knew that was
going to be the last show I saw for like
three years, I think I would have felt a bit differently.
but she's back. She has an album coming out in
September called one for three. The first single was released
last week. It's called Woman's World.

UU (31:05):
Sexy, confident, so intelligent. She is heaven sent, so soft,
so strong. She's a winner.

S1 (31:23):
First thing I want to say about this song is
that it is not very good.

S2 (31:26):
You would say that as a man.

S1 (31:30):
Uh, we'll talk about all that. Don't worry. This song
seems to pretend that the last decade of development in
pop music and music in general, just like, has not happened.
It's not clear what universe or context or time space
continuum this song emerged from. I find it to be
pretty vacuous and contrived. The second thing to say is

(31:52):
that the music video of this song, which has kind
of gone semi-viral for probably the wrong reasons for Katy Perry,
seems to be trying to make some sort of artistic
point that is not obvious in the song itself, and
it is also not very good. And Perry has released
another video that is trying to address the backlash, which

(32:14):
has all gotten a bit weird. Anyway, there's a lot
of stuff to untangle here, Mel. I'm going to ask
you to help break this one down. What's going on?
What is Woman's World about? Why is the music video
so weird? What is going on?

S3 (32:25):
Okay, I have to say I completely agree. This song
is not catchy at all and there's no melody to it. Um,
it's quite a dull song.

S6 (32:33):
But two things you.

S1 (32:33):
Want from a song are catchiness and melody.

S3 (32:35):
That is. That is, that's what a song should be. Um,
but the song only works as satire, I think when
you then watch it as the video clip, like the
video clip, I think is obviously satire. She's like pumping
herself with a petrol pump. There's a uterus dangling as
an air freshener, like the whole.

S1 (32:53):
Can you just can you just take it back one
step for us and explain to us the general themes
of the song and what what she's trying to do
in the music video, like, what is the music video
look like? I guess the.

S3 (33:04):
Music video is many sexy ladies, um, kind of being
fulfilling men's traditionally men's roles. They're being tradies, but they're
sexy tradies. They're dragging and driving trucks and cars, but
they're doing it sexily.

S6 (33:20):
Thomas, looking at.

S1 (33:21):
You earnestly while he.

S6 (33:22):
Nods, is very funny.

S3 (33:23):
Um, and I guess on one level you would say
like the message is meant to be, actually. Look, I
don't actually know what what? I think you have to
read it as satire. I think it's really obviously a.

S6 (33:36):
Satire.

S1 (33:37):
On what? Like what is.

S6 (33:38):
Okay.

S1 (33:38):
Yes. What is being satire here?

S3 (33:39):
That's a very good question. My belief is that Katy
Perry and she did release this thing where she was like,
you can do anything, even satire. In response to the backlash.
You go.

S8 (33:53):
Girl, you were born to shine. And we're kind of
just having fun being a bit sarcastic with it. It's
very slapstick. Um, my.

S3 (34:03):
Belief is that she's satirizing a certain kind of female
pop star, a female pop star that had to kind
of sing these feminist, empowering anthems. But she's just making
that satire really late, because I think everyone else has
kind of moved past the lie of what female pop
stars need to be, but she hasn't moved past it,

(34:26):
so I think that's what she's actually trying to satirize. But, um,
it's also quite unfortunate that she's had to make this
point with Doctor Luke. I don't think that helps her.
Her case here.

S1 (34:36):
Doctor Luke is the producer who famously Kesha accused of
harassment and assault that he's denied. And there aren't criminal charges,
but he does not have a very good reputation when
it comes to women in the music industry.

S3 (34:46):
Yeah, that's true and part of me. For a while there,
I was wondering whether Katy Perry's actually a genius, and
she employed Doctor Loo.

S2 (34:54):
Sexy, confident and so intelligent.

S3 (34:55):
Famously, she employed Doctor Luke to write a female empowerment
anthem as a giant kind of troll on him. But
I don't really think it's that layered. And then I
watched another TikTok where she was just talking about the
angel speaking to her.

S8 (35:09):
But one, four, three for me is a message from
my angels. It means I love you and some digital, um, language,
but it's so, um.

S3 (35:23):
I'm not really sure, but my thinking is that is
what the satire is meant to be on, and the
satire itself is just old because the kind of girlboss feminism,
the world is kind of moved past that in a way.
So a satire is just coming too late. I mean,
Beyonce was singing Girls Run the World ten years ago
and it was having similar kind of feedback to this song.

S1 (35:42):
And I think you alluded to this, but if you
don't watch the music video, there's nothing in the song
itself that has any lyrical complexity to it that suggests
anything funny or self-aware or witty. The song on its
own is just a straight up it's a woman's world.
We're living in it. It's great to be sexy and
hot and cool, and I'm a woman and life's great, basically,
is that you would.

S3 (36:03):
Have for the song to work as satire. It would
have to sonically throw back to a different period of time,
which it doesn't like. It would have to have some
ironic use of, you know, 90s, early 2000 music.

S2 (36:14):
Yeah. I mean, the satire that she's like, retroactively applying
to this because she's panicking is only obvious through the video, though.
Like the song itself, the lyrics, it's like there is
nothing like satirical about it. I mean, we kind of
touched on this a while ago when we were doing
the pop stars and we were like, oh, Katy Perry's
got the new album coming. Even then we were all like,
it's probably going to stink. Um, and like, lo and behold,

(36:35):
here we are. I just think, like, I think you're
being far too generous in searching desperately for, you know,
to try and justify what is going on here. I
just think she's basically, you know, we are living in
this era of, like, incredibly sophisticated, impressive pop music. She has,
you know, been out of the game for a little while. And,

(36:56):
you know, there was a I would say as well,
I feel like even when Katy Perry was at the
top of her powers, she was never, like, really cool.
And like, her music was never, you know, like in
the Beyonce leagues. Like she was kind of like the
fun pop star, California Gurls, Teenage Dream. But like, she
was never the one that was, like, kind of like
her politics or her message was what people loved her for.

(37:17):
And I feel like she's just come back into a
landscape that is completely different from the one she left,
and she's done what she thinks will be a way
into that conversation. And instead it's like, you know, she
is heaven sent. So soft, so strong, champion, superhuman, number one.

S3 (37:32):
But what do you think the she's trying to do
in the video clip? Like, do you think it's a
serious she thinks that that is what feminism is.

S2 (37:41):
I think maybe the video was like someone saying to
her a bunch of ideas and like, this could be
kind of funny and we'll like, we'll do like a
bit of a send up. But I still think even
if that was the intention, a it's not done very
well and B, it doesn't like doesn't really fit with
the song. Like what? What is going on with the
robot legs?

S1 (38:00):
Yeah. What is the petrol tank in the. But like
what is that supposed to mean.

S3 (38:03):
That's why it has to be a joke. It has.

S6 (38:06):
Yeah I think I think.

S1 (38:06):
Thomas is right though I don't think she or anyone
else has sat down and thought it through that much.
It's more just like you've got this song that is
completely anodyne, and maybe it's like a little bit knowing
what if we made the music video these obvious references
to feminism, and then all of a sudden it changes
and it's this different make believe world where women are

(38:27):
like bosses or whatever. And that's as far as anyone got.
I don't think there's anyone very smart or interesting involved
in the creative side of this. The bit that's also weird.
Like you said this at the start, Mel, this is
not a new idea of a female pop star looking
at the state of the industry with a hint of irony.

(38:49):
Lily Allen, just one name that comes to mind. Her
entire Sheezus project and hard out here did this ten
years ago, which is about body image and misogyny in
the entertainment industry and what it's like being a woman
trying to make pop. Ten years on, this, this feels
like way worse than that. Way more immature and sort
of silly. A question I got for you guys is,

(39:09):
has it succeeded at all in the sense that people
are talking about it and, you know, the music video
has got 10 million views or would basically any new
Katy Perry project get a lot of attention because she
is like quite a big pop star from an era
in which, you know, she was ubiquitous.

S3 (39:28):
No, I think it's purely the the confusion that has
prompted the discussion. No one knows what it means or
what is going on. So I think that's actually worked
in her favor in getting people to listen to the song,
but not I don't think all publicity is good publicity.
I am interested to see the rest of the album now,
so maybe in that case it has worked in her favour.

(39:48):
She has said that she saw this song as a
reset for her idea of the feminine divine, and its
to a whole different world. We will go after this.
So I am kind of curious to see whether she
actually does move to a different sound after this, or whether,
you know, she's still in the days of other anthems
like roar.

S2 (40:08):
Yeah, I mean, she should just go back to doing like,
Slow Love songs with John Mayer on The Mechanical Bull.
Can I just can I just say, I know neither
of you will probably do this, but just go and
watch the film clip for Who You Love starring her
and watch it.

S6 (40:22):
I'll watch it.

S2 (40:23):
It is so funny. It's like it's so this is 2013.
It starts with the two of them. Just like swaying
on the spot, singing to one another. And then they
cut to all these different couples on like a mechanical
bull in slow motion. And then eventually at the end,
they end up on the mechanical bull, like laughing as
they're like trying to stay on and stuff. I'm like,
this is so funny. Talk about a film clip that like,
you know, deserved to go viral. It's absolutely crazy. And

(40:45):
then at the end they're just like kissing and stuff. Amazing.
Great stuff.

S1 (40:49):
Um, she's tipped to play the entertainment at the AFL
Grand Final this year. And, like, maybe everyone thinks it's
cool because most people just want to see, like, fireworks. And,
you know, people have MasterChef in this country and the
hot and cold, and they'll like that. Uh, I don't
have any interest in listening to the whole album if
it sounds like this, if it's this kind of production

(41:11):
and sound, I think it'll suck. Like when you see
big artists like Dua, who were bigger than, like, Katy
has been in terms of anticipation and where they're at
in the culture kind of flop with decent albums. I
have a feeling this is probably going to tank unless she,
I don't know, somehow drastically changes course into something different.
I just don't think she's got anything interesting to say
or any contemporary engagement with what music sounds like. So

(41:34):
I have a feeling this will just disappear.

S3 (41:37):
Yeah, and I feel like the AFL gig is a
poisoned chalice. No one is ever happy with whoever performs there.

S2 (41:43):
Except for the killers. That was a great moment in pop.

S6 (41:46):
That was the last.

S1 (41:46):
Good one, Mr..

S6 (41:47):
Brightside. Yeah.

S1 (41:57):
All right. It's been a fun couple of weeks for
horror movie fans. Last week we got Maxine, the latest
film from director Tyler West, starring Mia Goth, is the
third in their trilogy of slasher films, including X and Pearl.
It's kind of a homage to 70s exploitation. Maxine's very fun,
I think, worth checking out if you haven't seen it
yet this week. We have Long Legs out in cinemas today.

S9 (42:22):
Is it scary being a lady FBI agent? Yeah.

S10 (42:28):
Take a nice long look.

S11 (42:32):
The letter was left with the bodies.

S10 (42:36):
Signed with one word.

S1 (42:50):
It stars Nicolas Cage and Maika Monroe. It's directed by
Osgood Perkins, who is the son of Anthony Perkins, the
guy who played Norman Bates in Psycho. Long legs is
about an FBI agent set in the 90s. She's tasked
with tracking down a serial killer who has been targeting
families for the past 30 years. It seems like the agent,

(43:11):
played by Maika Monroe, has some psychic abilities. The Murderer
longlegs has a lot of occult symbology in notes that
he leaves get a bit of silence of the Lambs
Zodiac seven Serial Killer Vibes, but this is definitely a
horror film with a lot of jump scares and some
supernatural elements. I thought this was creepy, pretty interesting, and

(43:36):
at times pretty wild film, largely due to Nicolas Cage's performance.
He makes some choices in this movie, which I think
are like fun and crazy and terrifying. We're going to
keep this conversation spoiler free because the movie has just
come out, but I think there's enough to discuss in
terms of whether we liked or didn't like this film

(43:57):
and where it sort of fits in both the horror
and Nicolas Cage cannons. What did you guys make of longlegs?

S3 (44:04):
I really liked this film. I thought it was nowhere
near as scary as the marketing made it out to be,
and I don't think it's quite the summer blockbuster horror
film that people might be led to believe. I think
it's a lot more arthouse. I mean, it's kind of
playing with the aspect ratio in it, and I actually
didn't see it as I was surprised by how how
it wasn't that horror to me. It was more crime

(44:26):
procedural in the vein of silence of the lambs, really,
and seven, but I thought it was very slick. It's
very tension filled. The acting is great. It was way
funnier than I expected. I actually laughed out loud quite
a bit in this film. The ending wasn't hugely satisfying
to me. I found it even a bit confusing, but
I didn't mind the twist and the change in direction. Ultimately,
I had a had a good time watching this film,

(44:47):
and I'm not someone who usually likes scary films.

S2 (44:49):
Yeah, it is funny. I think like we basically I
think we all kind of got wind of this through
their kind of like marketing campaign that's they've been doing
this like really cool thing that, like so many of
my friends have sent it to me already being like, oh,
have you seen this? Like where they show the lead actress,
like the first time she gets a look at Nicolas
Cage's character longlegs and his face is blacked out, but

(45:11):
she's got a heart rate monitor on and her heart
rate like doubles. And that was kind of the selling
point for the film. And like, I mean, I love
I'm such a sucker for like a hype machine. And
it reminds me of like, even like the early, you know,
The Blair Witch Project. Like, it's like when you start
to get this vibe around a film and people are like, oh,
what's going on? Have you seen this? Have you seen this? Like,
it had a lot of buzz like that. Um, so
I was kind of prepped for it. I really liked

(45:31):
it too. I just found it so funny because I
think we all watched it in different settings. Like, I
know you watched it alone. You were very concerned about
how scared you were going to be.

S1 (45:39):
I was pretty scared. I, um, my, my partner was
away doing proper, serious investigative journalism. Um, she's a real journalist,
unlike us. And I was alone in my house, and
I wanted to get home while it was still light
outside to watch it. Unfortunately, because I was working really,
really hard this week, I didn't quite get there in time.

(46:02):
And so I turned some of the lights on and
watched it, and, and, uh, it was spooky. This was
a spooky film. I was texting you a lot, Thomas,
as you know. Um, and it felt like having a
friend in the room, which was helpful. But, yeah, it's
interesting because the movie, to your point, Mel, it's not
it's not just a straight up horror. Like, it feels
like a procedural serial killer crime movie, but a bit

(46:26):
more intent at, like, investigating horror tropes in terms of
the sound, in terms of the cuts, in terms of
the reveals and the twists and things. What were your
guys viewing experience? How do they contribute to your overall
sense of the film?

S6 (46:38):
Um.

S3 (46:40):
My viewing experience at home on the on the laptop,
it was dark, but I didn't feel the need to
lock the doors. I didn't have any nightmares as a
result of this, I there were a few kind of
moments of ooh, like it is a creepy.

S2 (46:55):
It's a good jump scares in it, which is obviously
crucial to any good horror film.

S3 (46:59):
And it is a dread filled film. Like there's all
the kind of classic tropes, the kind of empty houses
and creepy locals and, you know, the slight wind blowing
the music. There's cuts to kind of red flashes of things.
So it is creepy. But no, I wasn't, um, I
wasn't particularly worried about longlegs coming for me.

S2 (47:19):
Yeah, I think, like, it really did the job. And
I think, you know, going back to that, like I
guess the pre movie hype that that to me, even
though perhaps the movie didn't fully live up to what
the hype made it out to be, I still think
it really enhances the viewing experience, and I reckon a
lot of people will feel that for this. Like, you know,
it's rare now, like we're in a kind of we're
in a real like horror renaissance in terms of like

(47:40):
what's coming out. So to try and stand out, you've
got to kind of build these campaigns around movies. Reminds
me a lot of like, how M Night Shyamalan used to, like,
promote his films. There was always something to expect, you know,
like you would always kind of have a view of
the film going into it. And I thought that really
worked for me. Um, you know, just like even waiting
to see exactly what Nicolas Cage's character would look like.
And I was particularly surprised by how, like, arthouse this

(48:03):
film felt. It felt like at times it was like
watching The Shining in terms of like, you know, the
ratios they were using and the way it was shot
and everything. Uh, yeah, I as far as like horror
films go, this really hit the mark for me. Yeah.

S3 (48:16):
And I do think that's a sign of how good
the marketing campaign is, because I think it would have
been lost to the kind of arthouse film crowd, even though,
you know, obviously the quote unquote elevated horror that A24
has been so big in putting out has become a
thing lately. Um, it is so, like, meticulous. Each frame
is so nicely shot. And yeah, you're right, it's a

(48:37):
very I found it a very slow paced film, like
it's long and sprawling in a I found that in
a good way. Like it worked to its favor. But yeah,
it's not the kind of classic horror of something like
saw or The Ring. Yeah.

S2 (48:50):
And again, Nicolas Cage, like, I mean, the guy is just,
dare I say, national treasure.

S1 (48:57):
Well, before we get to the Nicolas Cage thing, it
is interesting the kind of movie that it is because
it's a neon film and reading interviews with Oz Perkins,
the director, he basically just said, you guys do whatever
you want. In terms of the marketing of this movie,
he didn't really make it as an elevated A24 type
horror film, even though the marketing gives you that sort

(49:17):
of vibe, is made for less than $10 million. It's
it's slickly made, it looks very stylish, but it's not
about like a trauma trying to be like, you know,
dealt with. It's not really alluding to too much, I think.
And in some ways that's like my slight knock against it.
A lot of the film reminded me of barbarian, which
is one of my favorite horror movies lately, which is

(49:38):
similar in terms of the narrative structure and the kind
of darkness at the heart of suburbia and, you know,
that sort of thing. But that seems to be trying
to say a little bit more about America over the
last few decades. This kind of isn't doing that, and
it's fine. But then the marketing machine, the way that
the neon crew created those viral moments, as you said,
Thomas has gotten so many people excited, it's already more

(50:02):
than doubled its budget in the box office. It's just
been out in America for, I think, a week and
a half. It's going to be really interesting to see
what it does here. And I think as well as
the movie being pretty good, as well as the performances
generally being pretty good, uh, as well as the marketing
machine being really good. Nic cage is in this, we

(50:22):
say career renaissance. I feel like every three years Nic
Cage is in a career renaissance. The guy works relentlessly,
but it's maybe every like third or fourth film that
is really good. Um, like last year, Renfield, which is
like his vampire film with Nicholas Hoult that got a
little bit of hype, but wasn't that great the year before.
That pig, The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent two really

(50:46):
awesome Nicolas Cage films this year. We've also got The Surfer,
which is the Australian one filmed in WA coming out,
and I think also came out in Australia the beginning
of this year. Dream scenario was really good. In between
that he's done like eight other films, but like four
pretty good films in two years. That's that's pretty crazy
from Nick.

S3 (51:03):
Yeah. And in terms of I mean, we can talk
a bit more about longlegs as a character because he
is very haunting, but nothing will haunt me as much as.
Do you remember that film Face Off where I.

S6 (51:12):
Remember Face Off?

S12 (51:13):
You want to take his face? Yes. His face. Oh.

S1 (51:21):
Do we remember that movie Face Off?

S6 (51:23):
Come on, man.

S1 (51:23):
Mel, you were talking to two millennial men. That is
like I. That's. Yeah, we know.

S6 (51:29):
Face off.

S3 (51:30):
Nothing.

S6 (51:31):
I wasn't listening.

S3 (51:31):
Haunting as that film.

S2 (51:33):
If I wasn't listening to tribute, I was watching Face
Off and Con-air. So yes, I remember.

S3 (51:37):
Um, but yeah, I yes, I think you're right. We
all like to say there's a Nick cage renaissance every
time a new film comes out, because we kind of
forget he exists. And then all of a sudden he
seems to be in everything. I think pig really brought
him back to my attention. I thought he was so
good in that. And that film was so fun. And
then The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent was so good.
I thought Dream Scenario was great. He has this way

(51:59):
of like being so into a role, while at the
same time being Nic Cage. It's like Nic Cage acting
a role, like there's something going on there that makes
every role he's in kind of funny. Yeah, I.

S2 (52:12):
Mean, he he really is just like one of a kind.
And I do think that we need to appreciate the
genius that is Nicolas Cage while we have him, because
even like, like in addition to that list of movies,
you just said, Osmond, he's got one coming out on
stand this week, Arcadian. It's like it's about him and
his two sons. It looks awful, but like, he's. He's
just done this amazing film, and then the surfer's coming out.

(52:32):
That looks pretty good. Like, the guy is just relentless
and the output is so scattered in terms of quality.
It's it's crazy. And, you know, I hate to do
this to you, particularly Osman, but like we are living
in this time of the Glen Powells, these polished movie
stars who just make fucking safe choices. And I do
think that the cages are like a dying breed. This
is a guy that does like action films, art house films,

(52:54):
indie films, horror films, gore movies, great movies, bad movies,
and like all the time bouncing between all of that.
And on top of all that, he's a fucking weirdo.
Like he is just a once in a lifetime talent.
And I don't think we have many more cages out there.
So I just have so much love for Nicolas Cage
and yeah, he's. We need to appreciate him more.

S1 (53:16):
Not sure why. I'm Glen Powell copped to drive by there.
Honestly the guys working hard, making some cool choices and
doing some cool stuff. But I agree with you that
Nicolas Cage probably hasn't gotten the flowers he deserves because
he was big, kind of 90s, early 2000 action movie
guy and then National Treasure. I don't know man. Like
that movie sort of seemed to be both his commercial peak,

(53:39):
but maybe his critical like the beginning of his descent.
I guess that's what a peak is, really. Um, uh,
he climbed the commercial mountain and then slid down the
critical peak.

S6 (53:48):
I mean, it's.

S2 (53:49):
Hard to go, like once you've stolen the Declaration of Independence.

S1 (53:52):
Where do you go from there? Well, you make another
three national treasure movies, I guess. Um, but. Yeah. And
to what you said, Mel Peak is probably when he
came back on people's critical radar, and people are like,
this guy's actually really good at acting. And he's really
intense and he really gets into it. And it's kind
of amazing that he can alternate between these roles that
he seems to take very seriously, like pig like dream scenario,

(54:15):
like long legs, and then simultaneously release these movies that
he clearly doesn't really care about, that he's just doing
for the bag. It's pretty fascinating.

S3 (54:24):
Yeah. Though I have to say, if I didn't know
this was Nicolas Cage, I don't know if I would
have recognized him in longlegs. It is such a complete,
almost funny character that he plays, um, completely disguised. I
thought he seemed very I mean, the performance itself is
Nic Cage esque in the kind of over-the-topness of it,
but yeah, physically, I don't think I would have recognized him. Yeah,
it's definitely the weirdest.

S2 (54:45):
His face has looked since Face Off.

S3 (54:47):
Yeah, and it doesn't end.

S6 (54:47):
Well.

S1 (54:48):
When his face was John Travolta.

S6 (54:51):
I don't know if you've seen the.

S2 (54:51):
Movie Oseman, but it's quite good. You should check it out.

S1 (54:54):
Uh, don't. Yeah. Don't want to say too much more
about what he looks like, but it's it's interesting. He
doesn't look like him. He doesn't really sound like him.
He's not in the movie a lot. And then there is, like,
a couple of, like, quite significant twists that take the
movie in unpredictable directions, which makes me respect it even
more that he just sort of came on and said,
this is a crazy, weird role. I'm just going to

(55:17):
do it. I'm going to lean into, I'm going to
give it my all. And then good luck with this film. Yeah,
really good on Nic. Keep making weird movies. And Oz
Perkins great first name obviously. Uh, and really excited to
see he's made like 6 or 7 movies before this.
All kind of in the horror genre. Um, this will
probably be his most critically and commercially successful, so really

(55:38):
excited to see what he could do with some bigger
budgets as well.

S3 (55:41):
Yeah, and it does make me want to go back
actually and see his other films as well.

S2 (55:45):
I just thought, while we're on the subject of Nick,
I'd share some fun facts because everyone knows that he
is famously an oddball. If you guys are keen to
hear some of the strange cage trivia that is out there,
he once outbid Leonardo DiCaprio in 2007 for a 70
million year old dinosaur skull that cost him $276,000.

S3 (56:04):
Wow.

S2 (56:05):
Yeah, that sounds like one of those crazy celebrity stories
that's been generated by AI.

S6 (56:09):
But I'm surprised.

S3 (56:09):
Leonardo DiCaprio wanted something that old.

S6 (56:11):
I know, oh, that was good. I brushed over it,
not even listening to the punchline.

S3 (56:18):
Oh, a classic.

S6 (56:19):
In.

S2 (56:19):
A woman's world as well, how dare I? Uh, yeah.
I mean, he spent $150 million on 15 homes during
his career, including a haunted mansion, including one haunted mansion.
He buys like heaps of weird shit. He's got a
he's got a he built himself a tomb at his
own house in New Orleans. He is one of those, like,
celebrities that if you just type in Nicolas Cage trivia,

(56:40):
there's so much weird stuff about him. And of course,
the thing we haven't discussed is that he is actually
a Coppola.

S3 (56:45):
Yes, it is his uncle, right?

S2 (56:47):
Yeah, but he changed his name to get away from
the legacy of that family because he just wants to
do it on his own. He is the man.

S3 (56:53):
Um, also, I know like this is not the point,
but I actually do think we need to fact check
some of those facts because I have further questions.

S1 (57:02):
Um, he's also in, uh, the Spider-Man animated films playing
spider noir. They're good movies, the multiverse, Spider-Man films. I
think you guys would have a good time in that.
Thank you. And I believe he's in a spin off
TV series called Spider Noir that is coming up.

S2 (57:17):
He's also been one of my favorite films when I
was younger, which is gone in 60s.

S6 (57:21):
Dude, that movie.

S1 (57:21):
Is so bad. I watched it a lot as well
when I was a kid because it felt good.

S2 (57:25):
Jolie had dreads.

S1 (57:27):
It's a terrible movie. Dude, it's a terrible love.

S2 (57:29):
That movie.

S1 (57:30):
Con Air, though. I think that's probably my favorite of
that peak cage.

S2 (57:34):
Yeah, and the rock. Was he in the rock?

S3 (57:36):
Yeah, he was in the rock sick movie.

S1 (57:37):
That's a lot of great movies.

S3 (57:39):
Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Asian citation adaptations are.

S6 (57:41):
Great. Leaving Las.

S2 (57:42):
Vegas. The guy can fucking act.

S1 (57:45):
The guy can act. The guy can act. Um, great. Well,
onto our regular Impress Your Friend segment where we share
something we watch, read, listen to otherwise consumed in the
world of culture. Got a question for you guys. How
familiar are you with the Lady Jane Grey?

S2 (58:05):
I am the true historical figure. Or the Amazon Prime
version of the historical figure.

S6 (58:11):
Well, funny.

S1 (58:11):
You should ask. But before we get to the Amazon
Prime version. So Lady Jane Grey was queen for just
nine days in the 1500s. It's a Tudor period of England. Um,
she was only 16, and she was deposed in favor
of her half sister, Mary. Something to do with religious sectarianism.
Lady Jane was Protestant, Mary was Catholic. There was all

(58:32):
sorts of religious dramas going on. She was executed when
she was just 16. Pretty hectic story. And let me
tell you something else. What if Amazon Prime took that story,
made it into a historical TV series, and added some
wacky new elements like people being able to transform into animals? Uh,
and what if that show was quite fun and quite good?

(58:54):
How about that?

S6 (58:55):
Wow, wow.

S2 (58:56):
I'd want to hear about it from my friends.

S1 (58:58):
Well, that show is called My Lady Jane. It is
on Amazon Prime. Um, and it's a really fun show.
It's obviously like riffing off this period drama thing that
we're all doing, but I find it to be way funnier,
way sharper, way smarter than most of them. The fantastical
elements like the not as cringe as they sound, that
they're actually pretty good. The show's like a bit raunchy,

(59:19):
a bit sharp. It's got great British comedic actors like
Rob Brydon in it. Uh, it's really, really, really funny.
And it came out about a month ago, I think,
but it's getting a bit of buzz now. I'm really
loving it. If you're looking for something fun, but also
interesting and and thought provoking with great performances, give My
Lady Jane a.

S6 (59:40):
Spin, I.

S3 (59:41):
Really will. That sounds right up my alley.

S6 (59:43):
It does.

S1 (59:43):
Sun up your alley, Mel, I've got to say.

S3 (59:46):
On the list. All right. Mine is also a TV series,
which are lovely. The drop listener emailed into me. Thank
you Suzanne. She suggested that we talk about mid TV
too much, so maybe we should try, um, try this one.
It's called Under the Banner of Heaven. It's on SBS.
It's a true crime mini series. Um, it's got a
great cast. Andrew Garfield stars as a police detective whose

(01:00:10):
faith is shaken when he has to investigate the murder
of a latter day Saint mother, who is played by
Daisy Edgar-Jones, and her baby daughter, which involves the church. It's, uh,
it's a gripping, gripping series. It's true crime. Really well done.
Great cast. Um, you know, we're obviously still watching Presumed Innocent,
but this has a same, um, the same kind of

(01:00:31):
slickness to it and the same pace and the same
interest in bigger issues as well as it goes into
the kind of patriarchal structure of the church. And, you know,
the problems with organized religion. Um, so it's a really
great crime drama to watch.

S1 (01:00:46):
Yeah. Andrew Garfield is so good in this show.

S2 (01:00:48):
Um, yeah, that's been on my list. That was like
one that really, like a lot of people missed, I think. Um,
but that's been on my list for a long time.
So I will check it out. Yeah.

S3 (01:00:55):
Thank you Suzanne.

S2 (01:00:56):
Thank you. Yes. Big big love to Suzanne.

S1 (01:00:58):
We didn't mention by the way. Sorry. Just talking about
presumed Innocent renewed for a second season. Yeah.

S6 (01:01:02):
That's cool.

S3 (01:01:03):
Oh, I didn't know that, but.

S1 (01:01:05):
Yeah, but before anyone thinks that, that's like a spoiler
or whatever, I think it's sort of like a anthology
kind of a thing. They've got, like this cool creative
team and they're going to solve more mysteries like this
in Chicago in a very David E Kelley fashion.

S3 (01:01:19):
So will Big Jake be in it still?

S1 (01:01:22):
They have not announced the cast. He's going to be Eeping.
We don't know. We don't know how this series resolves.
You know, I think the.

S2 (01:01:26):
Finale is next Wednesday.

S6 (01:01:28):
Yeah.

S1 (01:01:30):
So very excited for that. And I'm excited about that.
Being back again next year. Very, very popular show. I
don't know if you guys are detecting this, but in
my life, like my normal friends are all loving this show.

S2 (01:01:40):
Everyone I know is watching it. Yeah, it's.

S1 (01:01:42):
And I say normal. Not in a patronizing way. Like
in a very good way. If you're one of my
normal friends, that's great, because you're not a weird freak
like us.

S2 (01:01:50):
Um, I've got a really fun one. Uh, look, this
is a good impress your friends on, because you really
could impress your friends by letting them know that you've
listened to this band before a film about them comes out. Osman,
I know you're across these guys, but look, the band
is kneecap. They're a hip hop trio from West Belfast
in Northern Ireland. They've been around since kind of 2017.
They rap in a mixture of English and Irish and

(01:02:13):
basically they've got like a lot of kind of it's
a crazy story. They, you know, their lyrics contain Republican themes,
their whole rooted in the struggle of what's been going
on in Northern Ireland. And the story of the band
is set to be kind of told in a film
called kneecap also, which I've seen. It's coming to the
Melbourne International Film Festival in August. The actual film gets
a wider release later in August, but the you know,

(01:02:35):
these guys almost remind me they've got the same energy
as like a one for like their lyrics are so
raw and real. Obviously there are songs that are in
Gaelic and then songs that are in English, but just
listening to the music before you go and see the
film is such an experience to kind of like learn
about these guys lives in this part of the world that,
you know, has had a historically very troubled time. Uh,

(01:02:56):
the music is amazing. And I honestly, the reason I
implore you to listen to it is because I reckon
once kneecap gets a wider release, it will be one
of the films of the year. All of the cool
people in your life will be like, fuck, we should
go and see kneecap. The movie is amazing. It blew
me away. I text you both several times individually after
seeing it to be like you will love it, especially
you oseman I can't even tell you how many of

(01:03:17):
your specific areas of interest it hits individually. It's crazy.
Like seriously, it's like you will just love it. But yeah,
that's my recommendation to you guys. Go and listen to kneecap. Um,
all of this stuff is on Spotify and yeah, I
think you'll be blown away and it'll prep you for
the movie, which comes out later in August.

S6 (01:03:33):
Great rec, really good rec.

S1 (01:03:34):
And I'm really glad you're so excited about it. I'm
really excited to see this film and you're interviewing the band,
and I'm really excited to read your interview with the band.

S2 (01:03:42):
Actually, I'm interviewing them this evening at 6 p.m., which
is always how I wanted to warm up for game
three of State of Origin.

S6 (01:03:49):
I was going.

S1 (01:03:49):
To say 6 p.m. and then what happens at 805?
Kick off of the greatest game of all. We're at Suncorp. Um,
Latrell is out. Well, how are we feeling? Team.

S3 (01:03:59):
Yeah, I mean, I guess we need to know the
odds and who you're betting on, because that's become our
tradition now. Yeah.

S1 (01:04:06):
What are you.

S6 (01:04:06):
Tipping? Uh.

S2 (01:04:07):
Look, I obviously am devastated about Latrell. Um, he's. He
lives in my area. I've seen him walking around. He
looks in good nick, to be honest. But that's good news.
That's good. Yeah, but he obviously is not fit to play,
I still think. I mean, I'm going with my heart
this time. I'm thinking blues by 8 to 12. Uh,
we're going to win the series at Suncorp. And yeah,
it'll be the exact, um, kind of fairy tale finish

(01:04:28):
for Madge in his first year as Blues coach up
the Blues.

S3 (01:04:30):
I don't think that's going to happen.

S1 (01:04:32):
That's absolutely not going to happen. And by the time
people listen to this, they will know that we're just
going to make it really, really funny.

S3 (01:04:37):
It's nice that you back your team, though. Well, like.

S2 (01:04:39):
I say, last episode, I fucking picked it to the
point blues by 20.

S1 (01:04:43):
You did, you did. Okay, well, I'll be very happy
and very surprised if that happens. Thomas. Mel, thanks so much, team.
Fingers crossed for the Blues. See you next week. Bye bye.
This episode of The Drop was produced by Che Huang.
If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app.

(01:05:04):
Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!