Our annual Australian TV check-in, the end of 'Bennifer' and 'Industry' S3E2 (Plus, some big news)

Another year, another marathon-length Logies. But this year’s ceremony showed a massive shift in Australian TV with Netflix’s Boy Swallows Universe swallowing the whole event.

Osman, Thomas and returning guest Meg discuss the state of Aussie drama and comedy on commercial TV and whether the streaming takeover has finally arrived.

Plus, they dive into the golden age of tabloid media that birthed "Bennifer" (RIP) and break down Industry's second episode. Is this one of the best episodes of TV this year?

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:07):
Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a
weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
where we dive into the latest in the world of
pop culture and entertainment. I mean, with Thomas Mitchell and
Meg Watson. How you going, pals? Good.

S2 (00:21):
Happy to be back again.

S1 (00:23):
Very excited to have you back again. Mel is still off,
but I can assure you she's on the mend. Hopefully
back with us soon. Thomas, how are you doing?

S3 (00:30):
Yeah, I'm pretty good. Um, yeah. That hand, foot and
mouth really gets you, Mel. So everyone's thinking of you and, uh. No,
I'm very good. You know, it's been a big week already.
A week that started at, like, you know, 1 p.m.
on Sunday as we geared up for the Logies, an
event we both love and work on consistently. Osman.

S1 (00:50):
It's crazy. If you told me ten years ago the
amount of time and energy I would spend on planning
our coverage of the Logies, doing our coverage of the Logies,
and then reflecting on our coverage of the Logies, I
wouldn't have believed you, but that is that is going
to be a big part of our show today.

S3 (01:05):
If you had told me ten years ago when I
was at the Logies, that I would still be talking
about the Logies ten years later, I probably would have
asked you to choke me out. So.

S1 (01:15):
Um. Well, they were on Sunday. Uh, we were covering
the awards. And traditionally here on this podcast, we do
a bit of analysis and have a bit of a
conversation about what the awards reveal, I guess, about the
state of Australian television, where things are heading. We're going
to get into that later on in this episode. We're
also going to dissect, I think, what I feel comfortable

(01:37):
in calling a very incredible and heart racing second episode
of Industry Season three, maybe one of my favorite episodes
of television this year, in fact. Yeah, we'll lay all
of that out a bit later on as well. But first,
there's some news around some kind of breaking news as
we're recording this on Wednesday morning, J.Lo and Ben Affleck

(01:58):
have divorced again.

S2 (02:00):
The newsroom is scrambling.

S1 (02:03):
We're all a bit late to this recording, trying to
get all our angles covered on this one. I feel
like celeb separation news. Not normally the kind of thing
that we discuss, but the relationship between these two sort
of transcends. Just like gossip stuff. These guys have been
absolute pillars of pop culture for decades now. Want to
talk a little bit about, you know, the last couple

(02:24):
of years they've had and where it all goes, but
maybe before. I'm interested to get your guys take on
exactly why we have, throughout the years, put so much
stock in the Bennifer dynamic. Meg, do you ever do
you have a take?

S2 (02:37):
Yeah, I mean, they're one of the foundational celebrity couples.
I think they kind of almost invented the idea of
the celebrity couple. They came together at the same time
that tabloid media was booming, and it was them that
everyone latched on to. It was I mean, I learned
about their relationship before I learned about relationships.

S4 (02:56):
Wow, wow.

S2 (02:57):
They I think. I think that's true, though. You know,
probably you project so much feelings on these people and
in an age of like tabloid magazine covers and paparazzi shots,
you knew everything about them at the time and for
their relationship and having an engagement called off. It's like
that was celebrity drama that fueled so much of our
lives back then. And then obviously with them getting back together,

(03:19):
that also brought so much nostalgia for people. And it
was so there was this romantic idea of, you know,
maybe the person you were with 20 years ago was
the right person, but it was the wrong time and
you couldn't help but latch on to it. So, I mean,
it's sad. It's very sad to see that as a
total lie. Yeah, I'm sad I they were so happy. Right.

S1 (03:38):
Like, well, I mean, not that happy, I guess.

S4 (03:40):
Well, yeah, I know that. I'm sad that it.

S3 (03:42):
Means we definitely won't get Jilly two now.

S4 (03:45):
I know. Which is sad.

S3 (03:47):
Yeah, it is, it is weird. Like, I kind of
agree in that, you know, normally, like celebs splitting up
or whatever, kind of like they come and go on
the radar and that's it. But this one, I think
people always were keen on. And definitely I think Meg
is right in that, you know, the fact that they
got back together 20 years later for our generation, you know,
people in their the aging millennials, we're so obsessed with,
you know, like looking back at our own youth and

(04:09):
being nostalgic for the early 2000 that the kind of
Bennifer reunion was like such a good avenue for that.
And it brought back so much of, you know, their
early courting. And then they had the pictures of them
on the boat and it was all just like it
all fit into the current narrative. But yeah, I mean,
they were one of the original kind of like, you know,
how we're all obsessed for a while with, like the
portmanteau couples of, like, sticking them together. It was like

(04:31):
them and Brangelina. And so like I have fond memories
of them as a couple. And yeah, I'm very sad
that once again, um, they've broken up.

S1 (04:40):
Well, it's interesting you mentioned the portmanteau because Bennifer, which
is what they were dubbed, is the first celebrity portmanteau.

S3 (04:47):
That's what I mean. Yeah, they.

S1 (04:48):
Yeah, they sort of coined it. You're right. I mean.

S2 (04:51):
I don't think they.

S4 (04:51):
Did. Sorry, sorry.

S1 (04:53):
They, they being the tabloid media.

S4 (04:54):
They were famously hounded by the press, and it was one.

S1 (04:57):
Of the reasons I think JLo said that, you know.

S3 (04:59):
The ghouls running TMZ and us or whatever, they they
coined it.

S1 (05:04):
It's funny because they were only together initially for a
couple of years, like they met on the set of
is it, do we say Gigli or Gigli? What do
we say? Gili. Gili.

S4 (05:13):
Gili Gili. I thought it was Gili.

S2 (05:15):
I don't know, maybe this is why it performs so badly.
No one knew how to talk about it.

S4 (05:18):
Well, they.

S1 (05:18):
Met on the set of that movie that we don't
know how to pronounce properly, and then they sort of
dated for a while. They were in the Jenny from
the block.

S4 (05:25):
Music video, iconic together, sick video from the.

S1 (05:28):
Block. And then it was all kind of done and
dusted after that, but probably, I guess, something about that
time that you guys have both just discussed. It was
the peak era of if you are in this sphere
of being covered by celebrity mags, the internet was really
becoming a thing. Then virality was becoming a thing. You
just permeated every part of culture. So you kind of

(05:50):
got in on the ground floor, and even years and years,
years later, uh Bennifer was still this kind of talking point.
And we've talked a lot on this show about our
kind of desire for nostalgia or a sense of our
generation in particular, and some people a little bit older,
a little bit younger to hark back to a time of,
you know, things felt a bit lower stakes and a

(06:12):
bit more fun, and pop culture felt like it was
at its peak. And so these guys actually getting back
together was this real physical manifestation of that, more so than,
you know, Netflix rebooting TV shows from that era. There's
actually two people decided to get together. I think, like
you said, Meg, there's a whole kind of social psychological
element to it as well, where people are like, oh,

(06:33):
that's sad. That like it didn't work out. And they
went on to have other relationships and have kids and stuff,
but maybe they were each other's one that got away.
And maybe we, you know, if someone else has that
in their life, it could work out for them. I
guess the news out of this week is that two
bad guys.

S4 (06:49):
Yeah, there's a reason why it didn't work. Is dead.

S2 (06:52):
I there is something. I mean, Ben Affleck seems like
divorced is his natural state. Like that does feel right.
Something has rebalanced. Well, he's kind of.

S3 (07:02):
Become the sad man of the internet. There's obviously that
famous photo of him when he's like, you know, smoking
and just looking really exhausted and fed up. And it's
become like, you know, the meme for when you've had
a bad day or whatever. It's actually a great photo.
Like it's great credit to that.

S4 (07:15):
All that content and everything looks kind of.

S1 (07:17):
Looks still, looks kind of jacked in that.

S4 (07:18):
You know, he's still.

S3 (07:19):
He's like he's a good looking man. I'm all for
Ben Affleck. I text the other day I was watching
good Will hunting. It's a fucking great movie. It's a
great it's a great movie.

S4 (07:26):
It's a great.

S3 (07:27):
Film. Um, and I think I said to you specifically,
I wish I had, like, a Robin Williams figure in
my life. Anyway, this is my own stuff to go through.
This is.

S2 (07:34):
Getting very.

S4 (07:35):
Personal.

S1 (07:35):
Am I not that? Am I the. Am I the
will hunting in your life?

S3 (07:39):
Yeah. You you actually. And the way you're dressed today,
you do kind of feel like my therapist or something. Um, but. Yeah,
like he and, you know, like, he's always, like all
those pictures of him, like, carrying coffees and stuff, like,
he he really has had a great second life on
the internet as well as being a great actor, so
I think anything that ever happens with him, and especially
now that he has returned to his default state as

(07:59):
like the disgruntled divorcee, this will just be great for him.
Now we'll have another like year of Ben Affleck content
until he, like, inevitably starts dating someone completely insane, like
probably Sydney Sweeney or something. And then that'll be a
whole new story.

S2 (08:12):
I will say that I don't know if all that
content is great for him. Him getting stalked, looking depressed,
having Dunkin Donuts every day.

S1 (08:19):
Um, should we evaluate, like the creative output in the
last year or so? Because they've been pretty prolific, both
of them. Uh, Ben has started up this production company
with with Matt Damon, and, uh, J.Lo has this movie
deal with, I think first Netflix and then Amazon. Uh,
so Ben starred in air, the movie about Nike's deal

(08:41):
with Michael Jordan. Pretty good movie. I thought, like, pretty fun,
maybe a little bit underrated, if anything. He also was
in a movie called hypnotic, which I did not watch.

S4 (08:50):
I have not seen that you guys are cross hypnotic.

S3 (08:52):
I have not seen that.

S1 (08:53):
No idea what hypnotic is.

S4 (08:54):
Good for him though. Great. He's out there.

S1 (08:56):
And he produced the recent Apple TV movie with Casey
Affleck and Matt Damon, The Instigators, which I watch, which is, like,
not great. It's not terrible. It's sort of like a
heist film, but it's his classic. You know, if this
movie came out ten years ago, it would have been
a really good movie. Matt Damon and Casey Affleck would
have been in a good movie, but now Apple just
pays everyone a bunch of money to make something. So

(09:17):
you see this title card that is like it's Casey
Affleck and Matt Damon, produced by Ben Affleck, and it's
kind of a heist. You want to watch it and
you do. And it's pretty, pretty, pretty lame.

S3 (09:26):
That felt like a movie where, like in the group chat,
they were like, hey, we haven't caught up in ages.

S4 (09:31):
Like, should we.

S3 (09:32):
Should we make that dumb idea we've been talking about?
Apple boys.

S4 (09:36):
Are back. The boys.

S1 (09:37):
Are back. Um, he's just finished filming The Accountant two.
I'm not across the accountant universe. You guys, the accountant heads.

S2 (09:46):
I am not.

S3 (09:48):
Well, the accountant two is actually crucial to the narrative
of the Bennifer demise. Because is it really? Well, yes,
because when J.Lo was chairing the Met Gala this year,
and that was kind of one of the big moments
where people were like, ooh, what's going on? Because Ben
Affleck didn't go and it's obviously a big deal. You know,
she was like chairing the Met Gala, but his excuse was,

(10:08):
oh no, I'm filming The Accountant two. I definitely can't
get on a plane and come back to support you.
My beautiful wife, who I love, um, because I'm filming
this really important movie, The Accountant two. And everyone was like, oh,
that's not good enough.

S1 (10:20):
Not true. That's not.

S3 (10:21):
True. Yeah. If you were in like, you know, if
you were in like the puppy dog honeymoon phase of
your relationship, you could be filming fucking good Will hunting
two and you would come back. So yeah, that was
kind of like, okay, that's not really. You know, we
don't really buy that. I have seen the first accountant
and I'm surprised they're making a second one, but yeah.

S1 (10:39):
Also where were they filming? It's an American movie, right?

S3 (10:42):
Yeah. I think he was overseas though.

S1 (10:44):
Oh I see oh, this is interesting. Ben Affleck stars
as Christian Wolff, an autistic Accountant who launders money for
some of the most dangerous criminals in the world. Jon
Bernthal is Christian's brother. He operates a security car. J.K.
Simmons is in this movie. I like all of those people.
I think I've got to watch The Accountant movies. As
for J.Lo, during their marriage, she made a shotgun wedding,

(11:07):
which I think had like a really great trailer. If
you guys remember this, where it's like, starts like as
a fun rom com.

S5 (11:13):
You got your gift. It's your something borrowed brings you
good luck. Except for Uncle Greg, who ended up decapitated
on that forklift. But that's not the knives fault.

S6 (11:22):
Oh.

S1 (11:23):
And then next minute JLo's got a shotgun and is
like trying to shoot kidnappers and assassins.

S7 (11:31):
Or pirates outside. And they took everybody hostage.

S1 (11:35):
The movie was not very good, I would say.

S2 (11:38):
I didn't mind, like. I mean, it's a great trash movie.
You know, if you sit down and it's a streaming
film and you've had a couple drinks on a Friday
night with some friends, it's fun.

S4 (11:46):
Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

S1 (11:47):
It's better than I didn't. I really didn't like that.
George Clooney, Julia Roberts. Ticket to.

S3 (11:52):
Paradise.

S1 (11:53):
Ticket to Paradise on an island. But it's sort of
in that.

S4 (11:55):
Just holding that against it. No, no, no.

S1 (11:56):
I'm just saying it's in that same sort of category.
I guess it's like I didn't watch it. But if
you're kind of hungover on a Sunday or you're bored or.

S3 (12:02):
Like, you know how I famously compare every movie to
Ticket to Paradise? Well.

S4 (12:06):
It just angers me so much.

S1 (12:07):
Well, I'm mad because people who hate anyone but you
and therefore are really mad at me for saying it's
a good movie. All seem to love Ticket to Paradise
and I just don't understand that to me.

S4 (12:17):
No, they're in the same universe for sure.

S1 (12:19):
To me, they're inverse. One is good and one is bad,
and it's not the one everyone thinks that's. That's my
plug again for anyone but you. Nearly 12 months on
from the movie's release, um, she also starred in The Mother,
which I have not seen.

S2 (12:34):
I've never even heard of that.

S1 (12:36):
Never heard of that.

S4 (12:36):
I feel like Shotgun.

S2 (12:37):
Wedding was probably the highlight of what she's been up to.

S3 (12:40):
Well, and then there was she's obviously like one of
those Netflix deals. So she did Atlas as well, I think,
you know, like she's done all a bunch of like
kind of really forgettable films. But the moment again where
she I feel like she people were like, oh, this
is another crazy JLo thing was the weird like documentary
that Ben Affleck produced.

S1 (12:57):
Yeah, this is me now, that was sort of inspired
by her reunion with Ben.

S8 (13:02):
I know what they say about me. About hopeless romantics
that we're weak but I'm not weak.

S1 (13:15):
And all of her celebrity friends played kind of gods
and masters of the universe. It was. It was strange.
I actually respected the swing that movie took. It was
sort of crazy, but it was just JLo being like,
I want to make some kind of fun, arty, long
music video type thing. Good on it. And it's her.

S2 (13:29):
Vibe, I guess. Like, she's always been pretty out there and, like,
pretty cringe in many ways. And she's just owning it.

S1 (13:34):
But you would say that 1234567, eight projects between the
two of them over the course of their second marriage,
maybe like one of them, air is good and worth recommending,
but maybe that's fine because obviously the relationship was about
them and not about making great content. So maybe it's
actually good that they made bad stuff because they were

(13:57):
really prioritising spending time with each other and trying to
make it work.

S4 (14:01):
Except.

S2 (14:01):
At the Met Gala, I guess, except the.

S4 (14:03):
Met Gala.

S3 (14:04):
I know, but then we do want like, I don't know,
is it okay for or can we be happy for
two celebrities to be in love if it impacts their collective?

S1 (14:14):
Yeah, ultimately, I care more about these people as creatives
who make stuff I want to consume, I kind of
don't really care about their personal happiness. Like, you're an artist.
Your job is to destroy your life and your livelihood,
to make stuff for us to watch and discuss, right?
That's how it works.

S3 (14:28):
Yeah, I'm kind of the same. Like, shout out.

S4 (14:30):
To all the artists listening.

S3 (14:32):
Yeah, like, I mean, if it means Ben Affleck is sad,
but we get another Argo. I'm okay with.

S4 (14:38):
That.

S1 (14:39):
Crazy that Ben Affleck has a best director Oscar, that is.

S4 (14:43):
He's actually.

S3 (14:44):
A talented guy like.

S1 (14:46):
Martin Scorsese. He doesn't know.

S3 (14:50):
He's he's under I would say he's actually underrated because
he's done everything. He's like, well, he's I think Ben.

S1 (14:55):
Affleck is a great actor and a great writer and
a great director. I completely agree with you.

S3 (14:59):
And also but the thing I like about it is,
even though he does all have all those things and
he's like, but he'll also be like, I'm going to
be Batman. And and like, the worst ever Batman in
the worst ever Batman films. Like, he's just.

S4 (15:12):
Yeah.

S1 (15:13):
We should just do a special Ben Affleck episode. Man,
his career is crazy. He's is crazy.

S3 (15:17):
It is. It is so crazy.

S1 (15:19):
Do one of those shameless, you know, bonus episodes. And
we're just sort of go back and unpack. Shout out
shameless as usual. Other fun TV news. Michaela Coel, the
creative mind behind I May Destroy You, which was one
of my favorite shows of the past few years, has
finally announced her new project, you guys. Fans of I
May Destroy You remember that show?

S2 (15:39):
Yeah, yeah, it destroyed me for sure.

S1 (15:42):
It was pretty affecting. It was really, really amazing television,
but very intense. Um, her new show is called First
Day on Earth, and the official synopsis is, uh, British
novelist Henry, played by Michaela Coel, is stuck, works dried up,
her relationships going nowhere. So when she's offered a job
on a film in Ghana, her parents homeland, where her

(16:04):
estranged father lives, she can't resist the chance to reconnect
with him and the country of her heritage. It's an
executive produced by succession creator Jesse Armstrong and co-produced by
HBO with an A24 credit in there as well. I
feel like this is designed in a lab for people
like us. Uh, the vibes are high on this one.

S3 (16:26):
Yeah, I know. I mean, yeah, every with each reveal,
I was like, oh, well, the algorithms really got me
this time.

S1 (16:33):
You're the man with the with the brain meme exploding. Yeah.

S3 (16:36):
Exactly. Um, it's it's funny because, like, I've been really,
I think everyone who, you know, loved succession has been
waiting to see what Jesse Armstrong would do next, and
I kind of figured he wouldn't. It wasn't like he
was going to go in and like, you know, be
a show runner on another show and create another series.
So I guess something like this makes sense. But yeah,
I mean, it has all the elements to be great,
which means it'll probably end up being awful, but I

(16:56):
can't wait to watch it.

S4 (16:58):
That's the hard.

S2 (16:59):
Thing because it's just so much hype behind her now.
And like, that's a great thing. And it means she's
able to take on projects that are cool and original
and interesting and devote time to doing it. But the
pressure that must come with that, I kind of want
to just zone out completely of any news about this.
I don't even want to watch trailers and just go
in fresh because it's just too much.

S1 (17:17):
Yeah, I think that's that's a really good point. I mean,
I think what is good is that I May Destroy
You was so good and received so much critical acclaim.
I'm sure Michaela Cole was offered enormous sums of money
to just follow something up straight away. And we've talked
about this before, that it's just generally never quite as good.
That sophomore thing where you spent so long writing the
project you really believe in, you pour your heart and

(17:39):
soul into it, and then you do your follow up,
which you kind of scramble to do this doesn't start
filming until next year, so it probably isn't going to
come out for maybe another 18 months. 24 months. That's
like six years between I May Destroy You and this
new show. I think it's great that she's actually even
though I'm sort of would love another great show from her.
It's cool that she's just taking her time and is like,
I want to find the right project. I want to
take my time to write stuff. So I think there

(18:00):
are good indications here. So looking forward to that one.

S2 (18:04):
How devastating do you think it's going to be? Because
she's a she's really funny as well obviously.

S4 (18:09):
I mean this.

S1 (18:09):
This were now moving into like, you know, parent issues, uh,
sort of third culture kid disconnected from their homeland, the colonial.

S4 (18:17):
History.

S1 (18:18):
This one's going to hit, uh, the struggles in the
media industry. This is going to have, um, a lot
of emotional resonance. All right. Time to talk about the Logies.
As I mentioned, Thomas and I covered the event on Sunday.

(18:39):
The ceremony went for five hours. It's crazy to me
that the lodges are longer than the Oscars.

S2 (18:46):
Why is that? Very genuinely like what's going on?

S1 (18:49):
We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk
about that because there are definitely some suggestions I've got
for edits that they could make. Thomas was there even longer.
He was doing the red carpet for a few hours before.

S2 (18:59):
I kept tuning in to the live blogs and everything.
You're still going? It's like midnight. Trapped in the media room.

S3 (19:06):
It got increasingly more like frantic and unhinged. The posts,
I think. But yeah.

S1 (19:11):
Um. What? I mean, maybe we'll start with this. Thomas.
Why don't you give us a bit of a vibe check?
How was the night? How did it play out for you?
And what sort of temperature check did you get on
the state of Australian television?

S3 (19:22):
Yeah, it was. It was a strange one. I thought
it was the second year that it's kind of relocated
to Sydney. And I think in a weird way, where
the Logies are held has a kind of flow on effect. Um, the.
Was that the darling in Sydney? Like the hotel and
pretty much from the get go, you know, you get
into the red carpet at like 330. All the stars

(19:44):
walk down and that's all filmed and stuff. And then
the broadcast doesn't start until later, but pretty, pretty quickly.
I was like, okay, there's a lot less media here
this year. Um, like, you know, you all kind of
get shuffled into these little pens and stuff, and it
felt like it felt like to me, anyway, that there
was a lot less media. And at the same time,
they felt like there was just less people, like less
celebrities walking the carpet. And I think that is like

(20:05):
a purposeful thing. The room that they held it in
Sydney is smaller. So you don't have like, you know,
in years gone by, you have the, you know, the
reality stars and often they're the people that kind of
make a bit of buzz on the carpet because they
wear something outrageous, they don't really care. And that creates
like a flow on effect. Whereas this year that's not
not really the case. They're inviting they are inviting less
people to the Logies each year. So I guess that

(20:26):
makes it feel different. And then once you kind of
get in there like, you know, as you said, it
was that was like one of the longest Logies in years.
It was even longer than last year's, which ran like
four hours, 28 minutes. Um, so that's like pretty crazy,
I think. You know, it's the first year that they've
changed the categories. So everyone I think thought it was
going to be shorter because rather than having the most
popular and most outstanding categories, they all were condensed into best.

(20:50):
So everyone thought it was going to be a bit
more tight this year. And in fact it like bled out.
So I think it was over five hours by the
time it eventually, you know, the gold was given out
at the end of the night, which is an incredibly
long broadcast. But generally I think, and we'll get into this,
the vibe that I took away and that lots of
people were talking about in the media room and as we,
you know, walk to get our respective Ubers at 2 a.m.

(21:11):
or whatever was that, it definitely felt like a changing
of the guard. Um, you know, the Logies are now
being broadcast on seven, but they're always broadcast on basically
one of the three main commercial networks in Australia, seven,
9 or 10. It's it kind of goes between 9
and 7. But it felt like even though the Logies
are historically a celebration of free to air TV and,
you know, all the stars, they're free to air faces

(21:34):
and the presenters are, you know, different faces from the
networks It felt like the big thing that everyone cared
about this year was like Boy Swallows universe and the
success of streaming shows and the, you know, Lost Flowers
of Alice Hart and and obviously the huge success of
Boy Swallows Universe. And that just felt like people were like, okay,
it's weird now that we even though the lodges have

(21:54):
a home on free to air and that's what their
history is all about, really. That's where the focus is now.
And and yeah, to me it definitely felt like jarring
in the way that the relevancy of free to air
is probably at its absolute lowest. And yet we still
have these awards that kind of champion that and but
they almost struggling to contain the excitement around streaming.

S1 (22:16):
How good to have someone who's been going to the
lodges for a decade to provide us that level of analysis,
I will say I'm really I'm really glad you sort
of covered both the mechanics of of the actual ceremony
and how all that works. I think that is an
interesting conversation. And the more interesting, I guess, clues we're
getting about where TV is going in Australia. Meg, you

(22:36):
asked the question, you know, why does it go for
so long? It is fascinating that there are less categories
than ever before, but it went on for longer. And
I mean, the ratings are pretty high this year. I
think it was actually one of the highest ratings since 2016.
So at certain points, a lot of people did pay attention.
But I think still, there's no reason for these ceremonies
to be longer than something like the Oscars. And I
think ultimately it's kind of self-indulgence on the part of

(22:59):
people in the industry in putting together the awards and
not really thinking about the audience. I think one example
of that is Rebecca Gibney was inducted into the Hall
of Fame. Like, Good on Rebecca Gibney. We all love
Rebecca Gibney. Deserving entry into the Hall of Fame, the
the entire segment that was about her being inducted, which
included speeches from her colleagues, included like a clips reel included.

(23:23):
Her son speaking about her multiple times included. Her giving
a speech went for nearly 25 minutes. That's like more
than 10% of the whole time of these awards. It
just doesn't need to happen. Like that. And then there's
the classic thing of you have 30s to give a speech.
The music plays you off. The music didn't really play
anyone off this year, but people gave speeches that went

(23:44):
on for a long time. Multiple people gave speeches, and
it's sometimes it's nice to see it, but I think
if ultimately it all just builds up where you're getting
the Gold Logie announced after midnight on a Sunday. Like,
who's watching that? Who is that for? How is that
helping promote Australian TV? You also have there's always some
musical performances, right? This time around it was James Bay

(24:04):
was the big international UK artist. He had like a
big hit ten years ago. Good on him. He didn't
get wheeled out to like 1130. It's like, what's the
point of having a huge international star if that's obviously
being done, to try to get like families to watch
and tune into the Logies? No one's watching by 1130.
So it's a couple of weird decisions like that that
don't make sense to me.

S2 (24:24):
Yeah, and it is a shame because I mean, as
you said, Thomas, free to air television is getting watched
less and less every year. And it needs a big boost.
And I mean Australian shows on streaming networks need a
boost as well. As much as they're getting a better
audience than free to air, they're still lost in a
sea of content where you don't even know it's Australian.
Sometimes it's not foregrounded in certain ways, and so events

(24:45):
like the Logies actually have this great opportunity to focus
attention on what Australia has produced over the past year.
What's the best show that we have made? Who are
the upcoming talents? But if it's just going to be
this long, bloated thing that people aren't even watching or
aware of, then what is the point? Is it just
for the people inside the room? And if so, I mean,
it's not going to have much of an ongoing impact.

S1 (25:09):
I think that's a really good point. I think ultimately
that was kind of the conclusion I took away as well,
that most of this ceremony is for people inside the
room and people in the industry. When the whole point
of a televised event is that it's this opportunity to
showcase a bunch of great Australian stuff that people might
not be across and celebrate it. I want to talk
a bit about the winners and sort of what that reveals. Thomas,

(25:30):
you you made the point that it felt like Uh,
significant kind of pivot that, you know, this is the
beginning of the era where the streamers, you know, are
really part of it. You know, Netflix won the most awards,
largely not exclusively, thanks to Boy Swallows Universe. I'm interested
in talking about that for a second, because we discussed

(25:51):
before the awards the way that the voting and judging
process had shifted. So now it's a combination of a
panel of judges voting, public votes and audience data. And
I find it really interesting that even though there were
a lot of shows from streamers that were nominated, the
only actual streamer that won any awards was Netflix, which

(26:13):
is far and away the biggest streaming platform in this country.
And I wonder whether an inadvertent result of that change
is it's basically impossible for a show on, like Paramount+
or Amazon Prime to win an award when they're up
against Netflix, because 20% of the award is based on

(26:33):
your viewership data. And if a show like Boy Swallows
Universe and Heartbreak High, those shows get millions and millions
of viewers. There might be a better show on a
smaller streamer, but it just gets totally blasted out. Was
there any kind of conversation around the total dominance of
Netflix this year?

S3 (26:49):
No, I think I think you raise a good point,
but I think because it's the first year that the
change has come in that that will probably be an
increasingly big talking point, like as the years go by,
if we keep going down this road where, you know,
whatever Netflix, Australian commissions keep cleaning up the Logies, then
there will probably have to be a conversation around, well, okay,
like you've given 20% weighting of the best category to

(27:12):
audience data. And Netflix has, you know, five times the
amount of subscribers, as Disney does in Australia or Paramount+
or binge or whatever. They'll probably have to look at that.
But yeah, I think, you know, this year there wasn't
that didn't seem to be a thing people were talking about.
People were just like, wow, Netflix is killing it with
Boy Swallows Universe. And that show was a huge success.
I was kind of surprised that The Lost Flowers of

(27:33):
Alice Hart didn't win more. Or win anything, I think because, like,
you know, that show really obviously Sigourney Weaver, you know,
was the lead. She was nominated but didn't win. But
you know, like that got really good reviews.

S1 (27:44):
I imagine beating Sigourney Weaver at the Logies is pretty
stoked I don't know.

S3 (27:47):
Yes, I think Sam Pang kind of mentioned, you know,
she'd won all these other awards and like, yeah, she
must be really excited to get her Logie. But I
think it was just a really funny night because it
kind of revealed the glaring issue in Australian TV that
we already kind of know. But like free to air
networks just do not invest in local drama. And local

(28:07):
drama is and drama generally is what most people watch.
So even though, you know, like there's still a big
audience for free to air and, you know, it's still
a pretty significant audience for reality TV shows and stuff like,
you know, comedy, entertainment and the Bruins and hard quizzes
and stuff. But the way people build relationships, I think,
with actors who they watch on series, is very different

(28:27):
to the relationship you have with a reality contestant. And
so we live in a time where free to air
networks basically only put to their resources into reality shows
because they're cheap and they rate well enough. But then
you get to a night like the Logies, and the
chasm is so obvious, because it's like all the drama
that people watch and the, you know, the, the identities

(28:48):
that they have a real relationship with are coming from streamers. So, like,
you saw it with the way everyone embraced Felix Cameron or, um,
you know, like the again, like Lost Flowers of Alice Hart.
And then because like, it's such a common complaint for
people to be like, oh, the Logies are irrelevant, it's
because they tune in and they just see these people.
They don't really watch because not everyone really watches reality TV.
And so yeah, that for me was the biggest takeaway.

(29:09):
It was like, wow, this refusal kind of from like seven,
nine and ten to properly invest in local drama is
becoming so obvious on awards night. And then you have
these two like it's like there's two different things going
on in awards night. It's like the free to air
commercial networks clapping themselves on the back for the stuff
they do and then having to acknowledge that, yeah, okay,
most people in the country are actually watching streaming and,
you know the millions of people that have watched Boy

(29:31):
Swallows universe?

S1 (29:32):
Yeah, I think no commercial free to air network won
a single acting category this time around across comedy and drama.
And to add to that excellent point you made about drama.
I think the same applies to children's television. The out
of the nominees this year, five of the six were
from the ABC and the. And the sixth is Eddie's
Little Homies, which is a co-pro between NITV, a publicly

(29:53):
funded broadcaster, and Netflix. This is not good. This is
really not good. It's not a great result for Australian television.

S2 (30:01):
Yeah, but I mean, do we see that changing in
the current environment? I don't think these commercial networks have
any money to invest in scripted drama or comedy. I mean,
it takes a lot more. That's why they invest in
panel shows and things that are quite easy and quick
to produce. Um, with the state of the way things
are right now, I don't see it changing. I think
it will just be a total streaming takeover eventually.

S1 (30:21):
Yeah. And historically, a big part of the reason why
networks have invested in it is because there were government
rules that were more stringent than they are now to
force them to do it. I mean, I would love
to live in a world where after the logis, I
don't know, the government sits down and networks it down
and say, cool, what does this like the conversation we're having? Like,
what does this tell us about where things are going?
What do we need to do? And you know, maybe

(30:42):
I'm naive. I have no idea what is going on
in the corridors of power in Canberra. Perhaps that conversation
is happening, but the fact that we've been talking about
these logis on this podcast now for like three years,
and we just keep having a very similar discussion, suggests
that things are still a little bit broken.

S2 (30:57):
It's been a big talking point with children's TV for
a long time, and there's a lot of lobbying going
on in that space because, I mean, a place like
channel ten used to make a lot of children's TV,
and it's crazy that you see a success like Bluey,
like literally the biggest show in the world practically. It's
up there with literally not even just children's content. The
most popular show in the world.

S4 (31:17):
Absolutely.

S2 (31:17):
How can the commercial networks not justify being part of that?
It's not even that expensive to produce, really. You just
need to invest in a good creative team who can
back their work and look at how far it's come in.
Just a few years. Really?

S1 (31:29):
Yeah. And if you have a success like that, that
can then subsidize so much other stuff, you make 100%.

S2 (31:34):
Yeah.

S1 (31:35):
Um, we should talk about the Gold Logie. Thomas, this
was a really exciting result.

S4 (31:40):
For.

S1 (31:40):
You. Your good friend, Larry Emdur.

S3 (31:43):
Yeah. Uh, yeah. Larry. Happy for Larry. We worked together
a few years ago at the morning show. Uh, and
I think, again, it was kind of funny like that,
sensing the general vibe from the organization on the night
was very much like, again, this is only my opinion.
It seemed like they were like, oh, God, we really
need Larry to win, because it was basically between him

(32:05):
and Robert Irwin. And of course, there were lots of
jokes that Robert Irwin's been on TV for two minutes.
He's only 19 or 20 or whatever he is. And so,
like for him to have, if he had edged out
Larry Emdur, who is a, you know, TV veteran, he's
hosted a million shows, he's been on TV for 40 years,
would have been a kind of uphill battle for the
Logies to climb in terms of defending itself. So I
think everyone was happy for Larry, um, to win. And,

(32:28):
you know, he gave a funny speech he committed to
his on air tattoo.

S9 (32:31):
I just remembered, um, I did say that if I
won this during the week, did I? I did say
I was so convinced that I wasn't going to win this,
that I said that if I did win it, I
would have all the nominees initials tattooed on my ass
live tomorrow morning. So.

S3 (32:54):
But yeah. But again, like, that's what I think was
so funny in that, you know, that was the Gold
Logie is obviously like the big award, the most popular
personality on Australian TV. That is not like these new categories.
You know, it's exclusive public voting. So seven, who is
the new broadcast partner was able to lobby massively for
Larry and they did and he won. And he deserves it.
That's like no issue for me. But I just thought

(33:15):
it was interesting that even though that's the big, you know,
moment of the night, it is the gold. It felt
like to me the next day at least, people that
I was speaking to and stuff I was reading, it
was really all about Boy Swallows universe and the cute
moments from that and Felix Cameron really, you know, like
heartfelt and nice acceptance speeches and Trent Dalton and like,
it just felt like the, you know, the kind of

(33:36):
soul of the logis. But then the actual what people
wanted to talk about no longer marry up.

S1 (33:41):
That's a really good point. I think a really smart observation.
I think I think you're right. I feel like the
gold now feels a little bit out of step with
what else is going on. I feel like it's quite
different to the 90s and 2000 when, you know, when
Lisa McCune was winning, it was because that show was
winning and Blue Heelers was winning. Like all the gold
winners tended to come out of extremely popular commercial drama

(34:03):
or sort of comedy and lifestyle sort of shows.

S3 (34:06):
And it just still feels like it is a it
is a strange award when you really think about it. Like,
you know, at the Oscars, like we get to the
end of the night, it's like, who's going to win
Best Picture and the Logies? It's like the Gold Logie
who out of a field that includes actors and presenters
and morning show hosts and reality show hosts, like all
these people who have nothing to do with each other,
who is going to be voted the best of this thing.

(34:28):
And it doesn't really. It's just odd. I think in
2024 to have like the big award being so mixed
and confused, like, yeah.

S1 (34:37):
And acting and actors are like, I think Asher Keddie
was the only actor and she was.

S3 (34:42):
Like the last actress to win it. And that was
like 2013, I think. Yeah.

S1 (34:45):
Wow. How interesting.

S2 (34:46):
It's strange. What that what that metric is in the
Gold Logie race. Because when you accept actors and morning
show presenters, is it the best acting performance? Is it
the most likable person off screen? Like what? How are
we judging this? Just vibes.

S3 (35:01):
Yeah, well that's the thing. Like for Asher Keddie this year, like,
technically she was nominated for strife that um, show on
binge about, you know, like the Mia Freedman show and
which has just been greenlit for second season. Um, but like,
you know, it basically it's really like, oh, Asher Keddie
is really popular. And she was on a show this
year and she's so popular. So like, she's going to

(35:21):
be nominated for gold. Yeah, it's a very it is
it is a metric, I think, that struggles increasingly to
keep up with like 2024. And, you know, what constitutes
award ceremonies and what they should be rewarding.

S1 (35:34):
Uh, we didn't mention Sam Pang. He hosted again. I
feel like he's pretty comfortable in that role. He's kind
of like, um, you know, Ricky Gervais doing the Golden
Globes all the time. It sort of feels like that's
his gig forever, I don't think.

S2 (35:47):
I wonder how he feels about that comparison.

S4 (35:49):
Yeah, but what did.

S3 (35:50):
You guys think? Because I felt like in the room,
last year's opening monologue hit way harder.

S1 (35:56):
I think you're right. I think it was. He was
a breath of fresh air and his gags were a
bit sharper. I think he did a good job, but
he seemed a little bit like half hearted, if I'm honest.
Like maybe a little bit flat. He's like, I'm going
to make these jokes. I know they're land, but I
don't feel as excited about this as I did last time.
Maybe that's partly because the room's a bit smaller. It's
harder to vibe off it. I can't really think of

(36:17):
anyone who'd be better than him. I mean, it's funny,
Tony Armstrong could probably do a good job. I'd say.
It'd be fun to maybe have co-hosts the Oscars and
Emmys and stuff. Kind of do that. But Pang's pretty
good at it, so I'm happy for.

S4 (36:28):
Him to keep going. I think he's good.

S3 (36:30):
Yeah. No, I think so too. I think it's a
tough gig. And I mean, like, there was lots of
material for him to work with, and I feel like
he touched on all of the, you know, respective scandals
for each network pretty smartly. But yeah, all in all,
I think, you know, it's like if he can just
get the ceremony down to like 2.5 hours, everyone literally,
if they can get it down to under three hours,

(36:51):
I think people would be like amazing. Like our bar
is so low for the Logies.

S1 (36:56):
And here's the other thing, right? The ratings were big,
but the ratings are also a measure of your average
performance across the five hours. So if they get it
down to three hours, the ratings actually go up on paper,
which makes the ceremony look like a bigger success and
gets people more excited about it.

S4 (37:11):
It makes people.

S2 (37:12):
More likely to watch it as well because, I mean, truly,
people are just tuning out and waiting for the TikTok
clips the next morning, right?

S1 (37:17):
Exactly, exactly. I mean, we pitched this every year, Thomas,
but just call us.

S3 (37:22):
I know I've been I've been waiting to write the
Logies for ten years, so.

S1 (37:25):
Yeah, I mean, there's there's fewer people in this country
who have as much knowledge of the Logies and care
as much about them, and lots of experience in producing
television and just understanding what makes good content as you. Thomas.
So I'm.

S4 (37:41):
Thomas Mitchell.

S2 (37:41):
For the gold.

S4 (37:42):
Yeah.

S2 (37:43):
Why not? How do I.

S1 (37:45):
Get. All right. Let's talk about industry.

S10 (37:49):
So I'm sure you've all been programmed to expect something radical.
But what I have here for you today, it really
isn't you at all. Join us in the ground floor
of what is going to be a spectacular journey. Not
my words.

S1 (38:09):
Well, I said it last week, but like, I think
without a doubt, fast becoming my favourite show of the year.
Episode two. I mean, this is fucking sick television This
show is wild. We didn't think we wanted a character
played by Kit Harington who is into water sports, which

(38:30):
is like revealed in this episode. Uh.

S3 (38:33):
And of course, by that you mean he likes being
pissed on?

S1 (38:36):
Correct? Correct. Just want to.

S3 (38:38):
Be explicit in. Yeah.

S1 (38:40):
Um, that's that's my sizzle at the top of this.
For people who still haven't watched the show, that is
what you're getting from industry season three. I mean, the
way that this episode in particular drops you in the
middle of just this real high octane, energetic, frenetic situation
that I don't really understand what's going on. But I
know that it's important and it's happening at a very
high pace. It doesn't relent throughout. There's so many different

(39:02):
fascinating plots, characters, situations that that run over the course
of the 50 minutes of the show. They all fit
together really well. You feel exhilarated as you're watching it,
and you can't wait for the next episode. It's just
really bloody excellent, masterful television. What did you think about
this app?

S3 (39:19):
This is probably one of the best episodes of TV
I've seen in a very long time. Also, you know,
I haven't felt stress like this since the kind of
peak of succession. I would say, um, the way like, yeah,
the way the episode begins with, you know, they're about
to take this company public, but there's a blackout. And
like you said, there's no context. There's no, like, gently, gently.
You're just like throwing into it. Um, I watched episode

(39:41):
two with maybe what I would describe as, like, a
gentle hangover. And it was a fucking awful idea because
it's so stressful, man, and really stressful. Really stressful. It's
really funny because I feel like this season particularly, they've.
Everything is a little bit different. Even the way they're shooting,
it looks a bit grittier and everyone looks exhausted. Like Yasmin,
played by Marissa Abella. They are doing such a good job.

(40:03):
On making her look like she's just fucking fed up.
Like she just she's always just looks. She's such a,
you know, she's a very good looking person. She they
make her look so haggard and stuff, and everyone generally
just looks like they're about to, like, have a mental breakdown.

S1 (40:18):
They look like how everyone I know feels like in
the world.

S4 (40:21):
Just like not taking that personally. Geez.

S1 (40:23):
Well, just like this. This sort of like within three years,
they've crunched these stories about these people who started in
this industry wide eyed, excited, like ready to go, and
then just seeing the world the way that capitalism operates,
the way that workplaces operate, the way the way that
Covid and life after Covid and relationships and the things

(40:45):
you turn to like drugs and alcohol to manage all
that stuff just squeezes you dry is so interesting. Like,
there are so many things happening in this show.

S3 (40:53):
And it is true because like, you know, they started
out as like these fresh faced graduates and because I,
you know, I said last week, I haven't I've been
binging this show in order to like catch up to
season three. So I feel so I've got like I
feel carsick almost from going through like only five days ago.
They were like, oh my God, these guys are beautiful
and youthful and all their, you know, skin is perfect
and glowing and dewy. And then they're having fun nights out.

(41:15):
And I could do that too And then like five
days later, I binge three seasons. I'm like, oh my God,
these guys are so fucked up. And they've all got
drug issues and daddy issues and like, that's kind.

S4 (41:24):
Of surprising.

S2 (41:25):
So I'm only like four episodes into the first season,
and they already seem kind of fucked up to me.
So I can't wait to see how things go downhill.

S4 (41:32):
Oh yeah. But it's always like.

S3 (41:33):
Even when I feel like in the early seasons when
they're like kind of, you know, fucked up or like
having these massive benders and then like, changing their shirt
in the cubicle and going into work. It was never
felt like kind of heavy or sinister. It always felt
a bit like, oh, you know, like, you know, this
is crazy young people being crazy and young. And now
it's like, you know, even when they have these big benders,
it's never like with a fun lens. It's like something

(41:55):
they're escaping these, you know, incredible issues and their stressful
job and all of their weird kind of like dynamics.
And they're all none of them. There's no healthy relationship
in this show.

S1 (42:05):
There are two structural things this show does really well
that I wanted to discuss because I think, I mean,
it seems effortless, but it's such a contrast to so
many other shows, and I think it's why it feels
so good and so exciting and so different. I mean,
one of them we touched on this last week, it's
the way that the show really has just created a
cast of characters and a world, and uses that as

(42:25):
a universe to talk about so many different things. Like
we are now in this season, getting really interesting conversations
about media and the links between big business and media,
and who pulls the strings and how news stories can
be created and just disappeared. Because you happen to meet
the right person who you do a favor for. That's fascinating.
That's sort of very reminiscent of where we got to
with with succession as well. There's this ongoing theme in

(42:49):
this season about the contradictions around ethical investing. You've got
these people who are saying that they're going to use
the force of the economy and capitalism and investment banking
to make the world a better place, and they just
keep running up against the reality of what that actually
means again and again. There's this ongoing throughline throughout the show, really,
all three seasons about sexual assault and not just the

(43:11):
human ramifications of being a victim of sexual assault. But
the way that structures and organizations deal with it, and
who covers it for who and what consequences are. It's
really interesting stuff to do with a show that's ostensibly
about a bunch of young people who like to party
and trade shares at a high pace. And the other thing,
structurally that's really interesting is we're going week to week,

(43:33):
which is amazing, but kind of like the last season
of succession. We're seeing it happen in real time, like
every episode so far has been a day. So when
you pick up again at episode two and we know
that episode one kind of ended with, uh, Eric and
Yasmin coming in after their big coke bender, and you're
seeing the consequences of it the next week where she's, like,

(43:54):
spinning out. She's about to throw up. He still hasn't
tucked his shirt in. And it it's so interesting using
that kind of frame, that time space to help us
to the point you were making. Thomas see the darkness,
the grimness of you actually feel what it's like to
be dealing with an IPO when you've been up all
night doing cocaine with your boss. And I don't think

(44:17):
there's any repentance coming. I don't think there's any salvation
for these people. It just seems like they have made
a lot of bad decisions. They've betrayed a lot of
their friends. There's not much left other than their ability
to deliver profit for their bosses. And if they can't
do that, what do they have? And that's a fascinating
thing to explore, I think.

S3 (44:36):
Yeah. And it's funny because they kind of have this,
you know, they give you the alternate, I guess, reality
in someone like Kenny, his character, who has such a
big journey through the show. You know, when we first
meet Kenny, he's all the worst things you hear about
this industry. He's sexist, he's an alcoholic. He is abusive.
You know, he abuses his privilege and is just awful

(44:56):
to be around. And then his character, I feel like,
has such an interesting journey in that he gets sober
and becomes like a really nice, protective guy. And then,
you know, like, spoiler alert, he gets ousted and his
career is over because he doesn't he can no longer
play that game. And yeah I feel like it is
touching on some really, really big issues and in a
really smart way. And yeah, there's so many like there's

(45:19):
so many like tiny moments in the show that I'm
just like, oh, what is that telling us? It seriously
has such a succession feel for me. I'm very curious
about what the fuck is going on between Eric and
Yasmin now.

S1 (45:30):
Yeah, Eric seems to have transferred the weird daddy relationship
he had with Harper onto Yasmin, but that's kind of
not her vibe. And she's got this weird Dom sub
thing going on with with Henry, Mark, Kit Harington's character,
Kit Harington. I got to say, pretty fun in this.
It's cool seeing a guy who, you know, played that
kind of hero character in in Game of Thrones and,

(45:51):
you know, was was a lot of people's heartthrob for
a while. And he's taken a bit of a break
and he's playing this kind of piece of shit who's
kind of complicated and interesting and willing to kind of
push things if you're a normie. Game of Thrones fan
and you turn this show on and you're like, this
guy's up to some freaky shit. That's pretty fun. It's
pretty fun to go through.

S3 (46:09):
Yeah, I mean, I like him in it. And also
Sarah Goldberg from Barry. Yeah. Yeah, he's been great. I
reckon like HBO, they just have a big factory of
people that have been in other shows and they just
go and get them. They're like, maybe let's see who's
in there. Like, maybe we'll get, I don't know, like someone.
Maybe we'll get Vito from The Sopranos in season four.

S1 (46:27):
Vito, uh, we talked last time about, you know, the
quality increased season to season. Meg, you weren't necessarily absolutely
in love with season one. The interesting thing is, the ratings,
like the viewership figures for season three, have been a
big bump on season two. They're 60% more people watching
these episodes and watching season two. So I think the
kind of prediction we had about the time slot change,

(46:48):
the hype driving people to the show is happening. I
feel like that's going to grow and grow. And I
know you're only four episodes in, but I promise you
it's worth sticking with.

S2 (46:55):
Yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not hating it. I'm
not hating it. I was watching it the other day
in the other room from my partner, and he was
just like, are you watching porn in there? And I
was like, pretty.

S4 (47:03):
Much, yeah.

S1 (47:04):
Season one really leans on like sex a lot.

S4 (47:08):
It sure does.

S3 (47:08):
It's so funny because as well, like, you know, it's
one of those shows, I've obviously come to it late
and binged it and I love it. And so like naturally,
my inclination is to tell people that I speak to
to like watch this show. And my father in law
is like a futures trader, and he's like in the
business on the weekend. I'm like, I was like, he
was like he often asked me for recommendations. I'm like,

(47:31):
oh my God. Like, Paul, you have to watch industry.
It's so good. Like it's about your industry. And I
gave him like the the kind of plot of it.
And he was like, oh cool, we'll start watching it.
And then we were walking home like my wife and I,
and she's like, are you fucking serious? You're telling my
dad to watch industry. Like, have you thought about what's
in the first season of that show? And then like yesterday,
I think her mom texted her and was like, hey, sweet, hey, hey, sweetie.

(47:52):
We've started watching industry. Very graphic. I was like, man.
And like, you know, I'm watching this scene where like,
you know, Yasmin's dad is like going down on a
pregnant employee of his. I'm like, oh my God. Now
my parents in law are going to be watching this
at some time in the future. I have to move countries.

S1 (48:06):
You see a lot of Yasmin's dad in that scene?

S3 (48:08):
Yes you do. So yeah, great show, but just be
careful who you recommend it to. I suppose.

S1 (48:13):
Yeah. Speaking of recommendations, time for our regular Impress Your
Friends segment where we share something we watched, read, listened to,
or consumed in the world of culture in the past week. Meg,
why don't you take it away?

S2 (48:26):
Sure. Um, my recommendation is an album that's out next week. Um, Barker.
She's a First Nations rapper who you might know from
her debut EP that came out a couple of years ago,
Black Matriarchy. Um, she kind of came up through Covid times,
which is a weird time for a musician to become famous. But, um,
a lot of her first tracks were kind of like

(48:48):
protest songs. Um, did a lot of performances around kind
of Black Lives Matter stuff. 2020 2021. This album is
called Big Titter and it's much more, she says. It's
about like black joy. It's more like a celebration album.
It's very like boppy and sunny while still being super powerful.
Um I've been listening to it a lot ahead of time.

(49:11):
It comes out next week, but it's been kind of
sunny here in Melbourne. I've been playing it for my
little toddlers, bopping around. They don't know swear words yet,
so it works perfectly. Um, yeah, I think she's definitely
one to watch. She's going on a national tour now
as well, and it's just like this great boom in
indigenous hip hop recently, I think, like she just won

(49:31):
the top award at the National Indigenous Music Awards last week. And,
you know, on top of Kid Laroi and Baker Boy
and all these other acts coming through, it's just like
a great scene to get across now, I think.

S1 (49:40):
Awesome recommendation. Big fan of Baka. I'm very excited for
that album. Thank you mate. I got a music one two. Um,
Lupe fiasco has an album out called Samurai Lupe for
people who don't know he's from Chicago. His first two albums,
Food and Liquor and the Cool, were like two of
the best albums of the 2000, I reckon. Thomas, I
got a feeling you're a bit of a loop. Head

(50:01):
back in the day.

S3 (50:02):
Food and liquor. I played it till I couldn't play
it anymore.

S1 (50:05):
Kick push kick push. He had a bunch of weird
label drama and problems and kind of his career stalled
for a bit. He experimented with some different genres and
kind of released some decent records in the last little while,
but this is easily, I think, his best project in
the last ten years. It's a very jazzy, breezy record.
It's only 30 minutes long. All of the tracks are

(50:26):
produced by his long term collaborator. Soundtrack. It's a really
interesting concept in this album, so he was inspired by
a line from Asif Kapadia's brilliant 2015 film Amy about
Amy Winehouse, where she talked about how she felt like
a samurai and a battle rapper. And Lupe has taken
that idea and is kind of rapping from the perspective

(50:48):
of Amy Winehouse. If she was a battle rapper and
a samurai, which sounds wild, but it's really interesting. It's
an exploration of what it means to be an artist,
the toll that takes, the challenges you know he's faced
and discusses all of Amy's kind of well-publicised issues as well.
So thematically, it's very rich and very interesting, but just
kind of musically and sonically, it's a really nice, interesting

(51:10):
listen and it's great to see someone with his experience
and his skills kind of get back to the top
of his game. So check it out. Lupe fiasco samurai.

S4 (51:19):
Yes, I'm definitely.

S2 (51:20):
Lupe fiasco. Blogspot.com.

S4 (51:22):
I feel like.

S2 (51:22):
That signed off every.

S4 (51:23):
Track. It really.

S1 (51:25):
Did. It really did. All those mixtapes he had. Um, Thomas,
what have you got?

S3 (51:29):
Uh, yes. Mine is actually a long read this week. Um,
how do you guys feel about baseball?

S1 (51:35):
I have watched Moneyball. Um, and I don't think we
can replace Giambi, but I think we can recreate him
in the aggregate.

S3 (51:43):
Well, I guess the most important question is, how does
Moneyball compare to Ticket to Paradise?

S1 (51:48):
Significantly better. I don't know heaps about baseball, but I'm
interested in sport. What have you got for us? Well, this.

S3 (51:53):
Is. I don't really know about baseball either, but I've
been kind of obsessed with Shohei Ohtani, the Japanese kind
of baseball sensation.

S4 (51:59):
Who is? Oh, yeah.

S1 (52:00):
Oh, yeah.

S3 (52:00):
This guy in baseball terms, like a bit of a
unicorn in that he pitches and bats. It's it's like
almost unheard of. He basically, you know, at the end
of last year signed an $800 million contract, which is 80%
back ended. He moved from the angels to the Dodgers.
And he's getting paid like $720 million of that contract
in the last two years of his life.

S4 (52:21):
It's like a ten year amount of money.

S3 (52:22):
It's insane. But what I think is curious is, you know,
the story that I want to recommend to you is
it's on the Athletic, you know, offshoot of The New
York Times. And it's the insular relationships that protected Shohei
Ohtani until they didn't. And basically it looks at, you know,
he doesn't really speak much English. And so he's got
two minders that kind of facilitate his life at these
huge Major League Baseball organizations. And one of them was

(52:44):
like enormously ripping him off because he had like a
gambling addiction. And that's kind of the crux of the story.
But it takes you into, I guess, like the world
of a professional sports star who is so insulated he
doesn't really speak to his teammates. He doesn't speak to
his coaches. All of his, you know, life is conducted
through this one minder or these two minders. And yeah,
I just found it a really interesting long read to

(53:05):
to get inside the mind of someone who is so
incredibly talented, but their entire life is just about one
thing being good at baseball, which he is very good
at it. So yeah, I thought it was a great
read from The Athletic. It's by Ken Rosenthal. He's like
a long term New York Times journalist, and I found
it really interesting as someone who is not into baseball.

S1 (53:21):
That's a great shot. I haven't followed him super closely,
but I'm aware that he's like this crazy unicorn player
who's worth so much money. And yeah, he was sort
of being accused of of betting on himself, like match
fixing or something. And then why.

S2 (53:33):
Would he need to do.

S4 (53:33):
That? He has so much money. Totally.

S1 (53:35):
And I think that's when it sort of emerged that
he was being taken advantage of by this trend of
fucking fascinating kind of sports business story.

S4 (53:42):
Great recommendation.

S2 (53:43):
Moneyball was right on.

S4 (53:44):
Yeah, exactly.

S1 (53:46):
I might rewatch that.

S4 (53:48):
Um.

S1 (53:50):
Hey, before we wrap up a little bit of news, uh,
my time at The Age and Sydney Morning Herald is
coming to an end. Which means that my time on
this podcast is coming to an end, which you know,
mixed feelings about. It's the right decision for me and
various other things I've got underway. But I will miss
you guys. I will miss working here. Um, Thomas and Meg,

(54:13):
wonderful colleagues, wonderful friends, wonderful podcast co-hosts. Uh, hoping to
be back next week with Mel. Fingers crossed. And we
can go out with something special. But, um, the news
the news is out slightly earlier than I intended, so
I thought it made sense to just let all of
our wonderful listeners know, uh, you've all been extremely supportive

(54:33):
and encouraging. Even the ones that tell me I talk
weirdly or have bad takes. Uh, it's the fun of
being a public commentator. It's been a really fun podcast
to make, and I'll say some proper farewells next week.
But she our wonderful producer in Sydney, David McMillan, who
helps us set up and looks after us every week,
and Cormac Lally here in Melbourne, could not have done

(54:55):
the podcast without you guys. Um, but yeah, that's the news.

S2 (55:00):
I am shocked this is the first time I'm hearing it.

S4 (55:02):
That's a lie, everyone.

S2 (55:05):
Um, yeah. It's such sad news. And we're gonna miss
you so much. And I'm sure listeners of the podcast
feel the same way. This podcast is really off the
back of your big giant brain, so it will be
lacking a lot. And we're not sure what's to come,
but people will get updated from there, I'm sure.

S1 (55:21):
Thank you very much.

S2 (55:22):
And I love how you saved it right till the end.
Only the real ones get the news.

S4 (55:25):
Totally.

S1 (55:25):
Yeah, well, I thought it'd be weird to say at
the start and then just have.

S4 (55:28):
A conversation about it.

S2 (55:29):
You're our good Will hunting. I don't want to see
you around here anymore.

S3 (55:35):
Um, yeah. You've gone to what? To go and see
about a girl slash go out into the world? Yeah, obviously.
You know, very sad. I am still shocked, even though
I've heard about it multiple times. And I still kind
of am, like, am I living in an alternate reality? Uh, yes.
It's going to be very strange not to be working
with you. And as you said, I think the listeners
will miss you very much. Even that one person that
commented recently, this has become a Osman echo chamber. Hahaha.

S4 (55:59):
Um, I mean.

S1 (56:00):
My name is in the podcast title. I know you
don't want my takes.

S4 (56:04):
He made sure of it.

S3 (56:05):
That was part of his contract? Yes. And hopefully we
can have time for a more proper goodbye. But, um. Yeah,
no doubt everyone will be feeling exactly as Meg and Mel,
no doubt at home is feeling. Which is really, really sad,
but happy for you that you've made a decision that
you think is right. And yeah, it won't be the
same without you.

S1 (56:21):
Thanks so much guys. I appreciate it and thank you
for thinking.

S3 (56:24):
About all that time. You're going to have to watch
films and text us about.

S1 (56:29):
Um, thanks for all your wonderful contributions to today's episode.
Take care. Ciao.

S2 (56:34):
Thanks, guys.

S1 (56:39):
This episode of The Drop was produced by Kea Wong.
If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
a friend! I'm Osman Farooqi. See you next week for
one more ride.