What went wrong with 'The Bear'? Plus, our recent TV highlights

One of our most highly anticipated shows of the year, The Bear, is back. Os, Thomas and Mel break down the good and the bad of season three and discuss why it doesn't feel as tight and polished as earlier seasons. They discuss where they show is heading, if it can redeem itself and what it's trying to say about food, family and grief.

Plus, they jump back into Presumed Innocent and unpack why it's best crime show in years, and Osman and Mel school Thomas on the joy of Le Tour de France.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:07):
Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a
culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
where we dive into the latest in the world of
pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Kambouris and
Thomas Mitchell. What's up team?

S2 (00:21):
Oh, you know, just here in the podcast I realize
I am like wearing a chef themed outfit for today's podcast.
It's a visual gag. I just Just wanted to get
ahead of it. Um, what do you mean?

S3 (00:31):
You realize you, like, put it on and sat down?

S2 (00:34):
Well, I just thought it would be appropriate. Yeah.

S1 (00:36):
For people who can't look at Thomas, which is most
of you, because this is a podcast. He's wearing a
white t shirt, his famous white t shirts with a
dark blue navy blue apron in the style of Carmy
Berzatto from the bear. He looks very good in it.
But you were saying you don't think that apron is
particularly robust? It's not going to mop up spills?

S2 (00:58):
No, this is not. This is obviously like an apron
that's been made for to be sent out to journalists.
You would never wear this in a kitchen, I don't think.

S3 (01:04):
And the reason Thomas has this is because he has
such a reputation in the office for being obsessed with
the bear, that one of our fashion writers received it
in the mail, and then placed it as a little
surprise on his desk, along with a hat. Yes.

S2 (01:16):
Correct. That was very nice of him. A hat that
says yes, chef. Uh, so yeah, very nice to dress
as Carmy, um, even before we get a chance to
talk about him, but otherwise all good.

S3 (01:26):
Will you wear it all day? Yes.

S2 (01:27):
Correct.

S1 (01:28):
Um, yeah. You've probably guessed that we will be talking
about the pair on on today's show. But before we
get there, congratulations, Thomas, on predicting origin. Last week you
said blues by 20. Very impressive. It's what happened.

S2 (01:40):
I know I like I mean, I've been telling you
guys for ages, if you just follow me and especially
follow me, like when I go heavily into financial like predictions,
then you'll be all right. Uh, literally. I picked the
scoreline and I can't wait to do the same thing.
I think July 17th is game three.

S3 (01:55):
So can I ask what ballpark of money or winnings
you made?

S2 (02:00):
It was actually a pretty good one, to be honest.
Yeah it was. Have you so.

S1 (02:04):
Good. He doesn't want to say the number. So the
tax man doesn't find out. Correct. Before we get into
the guts of today's app, I wanted to ask you
guys if you had seen these photos that emerged from
Gladiator two. I'm not sure if they're like set photos
or their official released film stills. They were part of
a Vanity Fair first look profile on this film. So

(02:27):
this is Ridley Scott doing the sequel. No Russell Crowe
but yes to Paul Mescal, yes to Joseph Quinn, yes
to Denzel Washington. I thought these looked pretty sick. You
guys know that I'm, you know, not super high on Paul.
I'm a bit sad that rusty is not going to
be in this one, but looking at these photos and
particularly like the fit that Denzel is in got me

(02:49):
really excited. What did you guys think?

S3 (02:51):
Oh man. You know, I've got a lot of time
for Denzel, especially lately. I think I've watched every single
film he has been in in the last year. Like
Denzel Washington has been my genre. So I'm really excited. Yeah,
all the equalizers, man on, man on Fire, all of them. Um,
I'm excited to see him in it. I think the
pictures looked good, right? Like, I know I've had a
bit of concerns about Ridley Scott because of Napoleon, that

(03:14):
it might just be a kind of big men doing
big men things, but I don't know, it made me excited.
But also what I'm really excited about is that we
might have a barbenheimer match up with Wicked and Gladiator
coming out on the same day in November. That's gonna
be huge.

S2 (03:31):
Gladiator clicking.

S1 (03:33):
Click click.

S3 (03:33):
It's good. Oh, we should coin that here first.

S2 (03:36):
Yeah, I don't know. I like the more I hear
about this movie, the more I feel like it's increasingly
an internet play. Like it's got Pedro Pascal and Paul
Mescal and everyone else that rhymes. Like I just, I
don't know if it's going to be that good. Like, I,
I really like the photos of Paul. I, you know,
I'm here for Paul. I'm not part of the anti
Paul brigade, um, like Osman is. I did think it

(03:58):
was very funny seeing some photos of Joseph Quinn online,
and it was like I saw one meme that was like, lol,
this looks like the kind of guy who leaves his
wife Ariana Grande. I thought that was I thought that
was very funny. I don't know, I just for me, Gladiator,
the first one, the initial one is such like a
great film and I just don't know if I need
to go back there. I'm happy. Like I think Russell

(04:19):
all power to him. You keep finding like exorcisms to
do on screen. That's where you should be now. And
I just don't know if this film is going to, like,
tarnish the legacy.

S3 (04:28):
I actually found the first Gladiator because we were quite
young when it came out, and I remember watching it
with my dad. I found it quite traumatic, like that
image of the family hanging from the ropes and some
of the. Yeah, yeah. Like, I often think about it. Um,
so I'll be interested to see if they make this
one as dark and violent. I'm sure they will. Knowing
Ridley Scott and what we've seen in Napoleon.

S1 (04:47):
There are so few films left that just exist as
independent standalone like pieces of culture. Everything is getting mined
and turned into IP with a million sequels. I feel like, yeah,
I'm like you, Thomas. I don't feel convinced we need
a sequel. Like if Ridley wants to get in the
dust with Paul and Denzel and Pedro Pascal, find a

(05:10):
project for that. But I can't help but feel like
a sequel that inevitably won't be as good or as
important as the first one kind of could sully it.
Because now it's not just Gladiator, this great film from
24 years ago, it's Gladiator and Gladiator two. But I
have to say, yeah, some of my cynicism was was
brushed to the side just by seeing some of these photos.

(05:33):
And like I said, particularly Denzel, who looks fucking awesome
in that sort of blue outfit he was wearing. Very exciting.
I mean.

S2 (05:39):
We all have lots of time for Denzel, but yeah,
I do think somewhere where where was he this weekend? Glastonbury,
Russell Crowe, like probably punching a dart, being like, yeah,
fuck you guys. It'll never be as good as the
first one.

S3 (05:50):
I'm mainly excited for the gladiator pod, because then you
can dress as a gladiator. Like, maybe that's going to
be your thing now. Okay, cool.

S1 (05:56):
You'll be dressed as Elphaba the wicked. Is she the
wicked witch?

S3 (06:00):
I don't I don't know which one she is, but
I will be.

S1 (06:04):
Um. Any other news you guys want to talk about
Joe Biden tanking in the presidential debate? The governor's tapping
him on the shoulder. You want to pivot to being
a political podcast for a bit?

S2 (06:13):
Should I dress up as Joe Biden or.

S3 (06:15):
I mean, you do stare off into space a bit.

S1 (06:18):
There's there's a culture angle to that. It was a televised,
you know, debate. He didn't do very well in. No.

S3 (06:23):
And then all the the video of him not dancing,
I find it quite painful to watch the whole thing.
Like I feel like I'm trying to avoid engaging with
it too much because it stresses me out when I
get into the weeds of it and really think about it.

S1 (06:35):
Yeah, to be clear, it was a joke. I wasn't
planning on us having an extended conversation about Biden's chances.

S2 (06:41):
I've been too busy engaging with like, the anti hot
chocolate mafia. So, unfortunately.

S1 (06:47):
Uh, do you want to talk about that, Thomas? You
you had a pretty tough weekend online. You shared your
thoughts about hot chocolate and why adults shouldn't be drinking it.
And it became like you became Twitter's main character for
a weekend, which is never good. I believe I used
the term you got at Osfed.

S2 (07:03):
Yeah, I was expecting a bit more like of leadership
from you because you've been there so many times. But
like of all the dumb shit I've written and I've
written some pretty dumb stuff, uh, this one really seemed
to strike a chord. I woke up on Monday morning
to like, thousands of Twitter notifications. Uh, a call from
a radio station asking me if I wanted to talk
about my drink shaming article, which was an amazing.

S1 (07:25):
That one was actually my fault. They called me and
they said, do you have Thomas's number? We want to
interview him about his hot chocolate. And I said, yes,
here it is. Please give him a buzz.

S2 (07:32):
And the funniest thing is like, obviously, you know, these
things happen. You write something, whatever, people don't agree with it.
And then Twitter, like takes a hold. But just I
find it so funny the some of the tweets just
like really made me laugh, even though, you know, I
would read them to my wife and she'd be like,
oh my God, that makes me so sad. This one
guy wanted me to stick my wobbly bits in a mulcher,
which I thought was particularly creative. But then there was one.

(07:52):
There was one that had 1000 retweets, and it was
just like, well, at least we can all agree on something.
Thomas Mitchell is a moron. So that was.

S3 (08:00):
One that was just like, let the people drink what
they want, you hot chocolate eating journalist and had 15,000 likes.

S2 (08:07):
So yeah, I mean, it's good. It's it was it
was a fun experience. And but I would say I
did have a hot chocolate yesterday as a way of,
you know, take like getting the heat off and it
was quite nice. But again, I stand by the fact
that it's not an everyday drink. All right.

S1 (08:20):
Well, speaking of food and drink related opinions, let's talk
about the bear. Good.

S4 (08:27):
You feel good?

UU (08:29):
We're gonna see. We're open. Button your lip, baby.

S5 (08:34):
Let's fly or cavatelli. Enjoy. Via Wagyu. Take your.

S6 (08:37):
Time. Just bear with us. One more second.

S7 (08:40):
Refire.

S6 (08:42):
I'm getting drilled out there. We're in.

S5 (08:46):
This is a dysfunctional kitchen. Show me a functional one.

S1 (08:54):
A little bit of housekeeping first. Maybe the bear is
released all in one go on Disney+. So all ten
episodes are available now of season three. It makes talking
about it kind of tricky because we don't really know
where everyone is at with the show, since everyone watches
it at a different pace. Our conversation today, we're going
to focus on the first five episodes, and we'll talk

(09:15):
about the second half of the season next week. So
our conversation will include spoilers up to and including episode five.
If you haven't watched that fight and you don't want
to be spoiled, maybe catch up and then come back
to us. There's a few different threads to how I
think we should tackle this conversation. This was one of
our most anticipated shows of the year. The critical and

(09:36):
audience reception to season three has been more mixed than
the first two, which was basically universal acclaim and a
swag of Emmys. I want to talk about how the
season is being received, and what that might tell us
about how people are feeling about this kind of television
right now. But first, I just want to talk to
you guys about what you think of this season. The
first episode in particular elicited some very, very strong responses.

(10:01):
Season two ends with Kimmy locked in the freezer at
the restaurant. He's screaming at Cousin Richie. He's fighting with
his girlfriend Claire. When we pick things back up with
the premiere of season three, we have this very non-linear,
largely exposition and dialogue free episode. It's a little bit experimental.
It takes us a little bit after the events of

(10:22):
the season two finale, but it mainly focuses on Kimmy's past.
What did you guys make of this Pretty wild way
to kick off a very highly anticipated season of a
TV show.

S3 (10:34):
Yeah, I feel that third seasons are tough for any show.
It's a make or break point, and the bear finished
on such a powerful note last time it reached such
a climactic peak that it was always going to be
hard to follow. I actually think if there hadn't been
a season break and this had been attached to the
last season, this episode might have worked better. It might

(10:55):
have been just what we needed after the highs of
kami being locked in the fridge. But to start a
new season, I thought this episode was self-indulgent and annoying,
and it actually really summarized what's wrong with the rest
of the season. I will say we've only seen up
to five, and I. I feel like from what I've read,
there's some high notes coming in the rest of the season,

(11:16):
and we know from the second season, I think some
of the best episodes came in the second half. So,
I mean, I will caveat with we've only seen the
top one, but this episode just summed it up. It's
kind of reliance on melodrama, it's obsession with montages, it's
obsession with throwing back into the past. It's kind of weird,
heavy handed use of music. It's a very aimless episode,

(11:38):
I don't know, like kami is obsessed with, like, continuously evolving.
And that's a bit of a theme through the episode.
But like, the show has not done that. And I
think this first EP really summarizes what my issues are
with the first five.

S2 (11:52):
Yeah, I mean, it pains me to say this, given
I'm literally sat here dressed like kami as an adult,
but like, yeah, I feel I mean, I guess in
answer to your question about the episode, one in particular,
I did really think it was a like a style
over substance thing. It just felt so overblown to me. Like,
you know, it was undoubtedly beautiful. The show has never

(12:14):
had an issue with the way it looks and the
way it feels like, you know, the shots were beautiful,
the food looks beautiful. It's hard to not take a
nice take in Copenhagen like, you know, because we see
Carmy kind of like revisiting all the places he's worked.
And essentially we're meant to be learning about how he
came to be this kind of anxious mess of a
guy who kind of repeats the cycle of abuse, blah, blah, blah.

(12:35):
But like, I just found it. That could have been
a montage in a part of the episode rather than
basically the entire episode. And, you know, I understand we're
coming off the back of the finale, which was so tense.
And I you know, I think that fight between Richie
and Carmy in the fridge was like one of the
best scenes of the series. And maybe this, you know,

(12:55):
they wanted to really change the pace when they were
bringing us back into the show. But I felt like
it just was really kind of limp. Um, you know, like,
it's so funny that we constantly get this mantra from
Chef Terry of, like, every Second Counts. And the show
is like, not thinking about that at all. Instead, we're
just kind of being forced to be like, oh, look
at all these pretty pictures. And, you know, I think

(13:15):
in what Mel said, I think really agree with that
is a snapshot of what I think a lot of
the issues with the first five episodes of season three
are so far. Um, for me anyway, I don't know,
I feel like oseman I know that you watched it
in a particular context and you seem to dig it.

S1 (13:29):
Well, I will say that I think there is a
structural problem with this season, and it goes to the
first episode as well that I think you touched on.
This was supposed to be a three season arc, and
the success of the first two has prompted Disney or Fox,
or whichever Disney subsidiary is in charge of this, to
say to the creator, Chris Storer, hey, we want four seasons,

(13:52):
and I think it really feels like he's taking a
season's worth of stuff and stretching it out over two seasons.
Like at that point you made about every second counting
that not happening. I think that's really spot on. I
feel like there's big moments of this season, either entire
episodes or bits of episodes that just feel like filler,
that aren't really driving things forward or not taking the

(14:14):
kinds of swings or the big set pieces that we've
come to love and appreciate from the show. And I
hear you guys on the first episode as well, and
I can see why it didn't work for a lot
of people. I had a slightly different response to it.
And I'm not trying to say that if you didn't
like it, you're wrong or anything like that, but. And
it may have to do with my mental state. Thomas,
you and I, I was in Sydney. We were hanging out.

(14:34):
We had a wonderful night at a wonderful restaurant in
Sydney and Newtown. Delicious food, delicious drink. I caught a
flight the next morning. I was like a bit tired,
a bit emotional in a certain mental state. And I
watched this episode of television that I found visually quite beautiful.
You know, I think Chris stories like using the cash

(14:55):
that he's got and the budget, he's got to just
flex his muscles a little bit. And part of me
respects that. Like, you've created two seasons of a great show.
Everyone loves you. You can kind of do whatever you want.
Your apex now. And he said, I want an episode
that I just want to, like, have a bit of
fun in that I want to shoot in an interesting
way that I want to make a little bit daring,
a little bit experimental. I kind of appreciated that. I'm

(15:16):
glad the whole season isn't that. I think it's interesting
and nice of him to stretch himself in a direction.
I also did find some of the themes of it
really interesting, like it is a bit of a restatement
of the thesis of this show that Carmy is a
very troubled character, and every time he is presented with
challenges or trauma, he doesn't know how to deal with it,
and he throws himself into his work to try to

(15:38):
seek some control in the kitchen environment, because he doesn't
really feel like he's got control on other aspects of
his life. One of the bits that I thought worked
really well was seeing that sort of cycle filter down,
where you see Carmy finally creating the dish that he's
the most proud of after this pressure. It's like a diamond,
like he's put under this pressure from that mean chef

(15:59):
Joel McHale. He's in that situation because he's fleeing all
sorts of other issues he's got. He finally nails the
perfect dish. And who is it who eats that dish?
It's Sid, and she's like, I want to work with
this guy. What a genius. Not aware at that time
that he could only create something so masterful because of
all the shit that he's carrying and how that hardened

(16:20):
inside of him. And then you see, over the next
two and a half seasons, the way that Carmy brings
that trauma and stress onto her as well. I thought
that was a really interesting way to tell that story,
but like I said, it was a restatement of everything
we know. We know that kami is like a bit
of a piece of shit who wasn't handling himself well.
So did it push things forward? Not.

S3 (16:41):
Not really. Yeah. And how many times do they have
to tell us that kami is traumatized and that he
puts that out on people like, to me it was
just like, oh my God, how many more times do
we have to see Tommy has problems? Kami is like
a perfectionist, blah blah blah. To me. He is the
worst thing about this show and the less of kami
in this show. And I'm sorry Thomas, like I hope

(17:01):
you're not taking this personally the worst thing. And the
less of him the better. And I just think the
show is best when he's not involved as much to me,
because I know people will say to me, oh, but that's,
you know, his character is meant to be unlikable and troubled,
but you can have anti-heroes in other shows, and they
don't feel as one dimensional to me as Carmy feels.

S2 (17:23):
I might go and put on my Marcus beanie, then
feels weird because no, look, I do agree with you.
I think there's like a few things going on. Um,
I mean, like, yeah, you kind of said it at
the top mil season three for any show. Like it
actually was thinking a lot about succession last night. Just
I mean, I feel like we talk about that show
so often, but more and more as these shows, you know,

(17:43):
continue to like, navigate their way through different arcs, it
kind of just makes you realize how amazing succession was
to maintain that quality for so long. But like season
three is famously a tricky season for any show like
and especially, you know, season one, we were like thrown
into this world. Everyone was like, what an incredible show. And,
you know, they're dealing with a subject matter that is
easy and that you're building something, you know, from the

(18:04):
ground up. And then season two, you know, they get
this thing going. And like, that's easy too, in a way.
But then like where they're at in season three, like they've,
they've got it is naturally like a less exciting subject matter,
I think. And I kind of agree with you in
that kami like, it just feels like that. You know,
we have been like ramped over the head with these
messages of like, kami is like traumatized. Kami has issues

(18:26):
and I feel like all of the tension is so
arrested right now with with everything that's going on, it's
basically like we see Richie and Carmy continue to have
their situation. Syd still doesn't feel that respected by Carmy.
He offers her like an official partnership in the restaurant,
but he doesn't actually listen to her or seek her
counsel on dishes. The sister has been pregnant for like
three years. It's insane. Like, I just I just feel like,

(18:49):
you know, I understand the timeline of the show, but
it feels like all of the tension has, like, not
moved forward at all. And, you know, like, unfortunately, whether
or not that's like a reflection of real life in
this restaurant, but it doesn't necessarily then translate to really
watchable TV.

S1 (19:05):
Yeah, I think there's a bit to talk about there
in terms of the good and the bad of this
show and also the season three issue. Before we get there,
I want to maybe we'll just move through the rest
of the season and talk about what we liked and
didn't like. Episode two. You know, it's kind of like
the return to normality in terms of the structure, the
non-negotiables episode. But to your point, Thomas. Yeah, it's like
predominantly about Richie and Carmy yelling at each other, which

(19:27):
I did find very fun and interesting, but wasn't new.
Wasn't that exciting? Episode three. It's just like, here's a
restaurant operating over the space of a month. Great. We've
seen that over two years as well. Episode four Syd
gets her own apartment. I don't really care that much
about that. Marcus's mum died. He. He speaks at the funeral,

(19:47):
delivers the eulogy. It's now been like a season and
a half of Marcus's mum dying. Like, in no disrespect
to my guy, but, like, that's a lot of time
to spend on one minor characters like personal family issue.
And then episode five, the episode of the review where
we get some of the stunt casting John Cena. Overall,

(20:08):
I found those episodes like, I think at least episode
one tried to do something different and interesting. I found
the rest of it really treading water. The only bits
that really worked for me were Abby Elliott, who plays
my sister. I find a really interesting and I get
that the the pregnancy story, I think that resolves itself
later in the season from, from what I've read. But

(20:29):
she's really interesting and compelling, and I find her to
be a really interesting anchor in this show. But that's
kind of really all I can say in terms of
what I really loving about it at the moment.

S3 (20:40):
Yeah, I completely agree. I think Nat or Sugar is
she's known and Cousin Richie are like the beating heart
of this show. And I actually think Cousin Richie where
Carmy's character or writing of his character fails. Cousin Richie
shows how you can be a complicated, traumatized character, but
still not feel one note. And I thought the two
best scenes and we have to say, like in the

(21:00):
first five episodes, pretty much the dialogue consists of people
telling each other to shut the fuck up like that
is just like, go fuck yourself. Yeah, go fuck yourself.
That's like the main dialogue, but there's two really great scenes.
That scene with Cousin Richie where he's wondering whether he
needs to stay out of his kid's life for her sake.

S1 (21:18):
Josh Hartnett coming out.

S3 (21:20):
Yeah, he's really having a renaissance. He was really.

S2 (21:22):
Good in that scene.

S1 (21:23):
Too. He was great in that scene. He was a
really good, like, stunt car.

S2 (21:26):
I was like, really happy for Josh Hartnett.

S3 (21:28):
He was great in Oppenheimer. Bring him back. Yeah. Um,
and then the other scene was the one with sugar
where she's talking about. It's this really great moment of
script writing where she's talking about worrying about passing what's
going on in her head and her life down into
her baby. And it does show that they have the
potential to do these wonderful scenes, but they're too distracted

(21:48):
by the montages and the close ups and the music,
and they don't actually invest in these characters as much
outside of the restaurant as I think that they should.

S2 (21:57):
And I feel like that's been one of the biggest
things that's really bothered me. And like, I think it's
fair to say I went into this show, like probably
more prepared than anyone to like it, but like the
tricks that made the first two seasons so great. Like
like these, like really well timed flashbacks like these really
kind of like beautiful montages of, like the minutiae of like,
life in the kitchen and not necessarily just like food
being cooked, but like Greece being, you know, wiped from

(22:19):
the inside of an oven that, that they now feel
like the biggest kind of like papering over the cracks
of like holes in these episodes. And they've completely, like,
forgotten the idea, you know, probably something you hear in
the kitchen all the time, like less is more, and
instead they're just like the aside from the opening episode,
the amount of like flashbacks and montages, it's just such
a like distraction. And also, I think it tells any

(22:41):
savvy enough viewer that you've, like, not got a great
idea of what's going on in your show because you're,
you're doing this and I guess Oseman, I was curious
to speak to you about this because you are such
a marvel guy. Like, is this the whole like, Avengers
Endgame situation where it's like, you split it in two
because and then you just dilute the quality?

S1 (22:57):
I don't know what to say in response to that.

S3 (23:00):
The Avengers link was not one I expected.

S1 (23:02):
But yeah, also calling me a marvel guy. Like, I
watch these things because they are the most popular forms
of commercial entertainment to exist, and I feel responsible as
a person who engages with culture and mass consumption of
it to be across them. Um, but yeah, I mean,
I weirdly, annoyingly, I'm going to now sound like a
marvel guy. Avengers. The splitting of it didn't feel like this,

(23:25):
because I feel like there was so many storylines that
had been built up over such a long period of
time that there was enough to warrant two movies. I mean,
we're talking about maybe like 15 hours of television across
these three and four seasons. This doesn't feel like there's
15 hours or even 12 hours of storytelling to tell here.
So we've got these flashbacks. We've got so many shots

(23:47):
of Carmy deciding what micro herb to put on, so
many shots of him cooking food and throwing it in
the bin. And it's not clear to me what purpose
they serve. You know, we had this conversation about action
scenes and sex scenes and people say, what's the point
of them? All these different sort of scenes can tell
you something about a character. But for me, at this
stage in this show, it's not clear what these scenes

(24:10):
are supposed to represent. And Mel, you're right about Richie
and Sugar being the most interesting because despite them playing
specific roles in relation to how Carmy and the rest
of the crew are doing, we know about their lives.
We know what they're thinking about. We know what they're
trying to process. We even know that Richie is obsessed
with William Friedkin and Michael Mann films, right? That's like

(24:32):
a fleshed out and interesting and compelling character who is
trying to work at his job, find some meaning in
his life through his profession, manage his his divorce and
his kid and his ex-wife getting married. He's got he's
got a relationship with the maitre d that worked at ever,
the really fancy Olivia Colman restaurant. We understand all these
things for Carmy. What do we what's going on in

(24:52):
his life other than he's just, like, quite stressed out
in the kitchen and misses his ex-girlfriend who's not in
the show at all so far. So it's just flashbacks.
It's a really bizarre situation I think the show has
ended up at.

S2 (25:05):
And I was thinking about this a lot when watching
the first five, because I particularly agree that, like, I
really do unfortunately think kami is the least interesting character,
and the show was so kind of like critically lauded
for expanding that ensemble cast and giving everyone, like, equal billing.
And then it was so funny to find the first,
I mean, the first episode especially, but generally the vibe
of the first five, kind of like batch of episodes

(25:27):
is kami is like really front and center again. And
I was thinking about like, what role does the reputation
of the show like? Jeremy Allen white has no doubt
become the biggest star from this show. Like, you know,
I think Ayo Edebiri has a case also to make
for how much her stock has risen. But those two really,
let's say from the bear doing so well, have become
like these huge pop culture figures now. And I wonder

(25:49):
what the relationship like is between, you know, the network
and the creators of the show when talking about what
the season will look like. Because if you look at
the trajectory of the show, it felt like Carmy was
becoming less and less, you know, important and less crucial
to be centered. And then suddenly we get to season
three and the gap. You know, what's happened in that
gap is that he's become a superstar, really. And then

(26:11):
he's like, right back in the frame. And I was wondering,
I'm like, if that kind of speaks to, I guess,
you know, leveraging his star power because I wouldn't have
expected it to be the case.

S1 (26:19):
It's a really interesting one. And also you note where
like you hear these things from people like Olivia Colman
and Joe McHale, who are these actors coming in for
an episode or a scene or two? They're like, we
just fly in for a day. We shoot our sins,
we fly out. It's interesting hearing you make that point,
because most of Carmy's scenes are in like 1 or
2 sets, and we know that he's like working on

(26:40):
like a oh, so many different film projects and other
things right now that maybe they're one foot in the bear,
one foot out of the bear. And that then impacts
the story you can tell and the scenes that these
guys can be in. The other thing I wanted to
ask you guys about, I think it kind of goes
to the nature of what kind of show the bear is,
what kind of show maybe the creators wanted to make

(27:01):
and where it's going now. These sorts of like three, four,
five season shows. Succession is like a clear standout that
doesn't really fit into this because of just how kind
of special it was. But these kinds of shows last
because you create an ensemble cast, a dynamic, a vibe
that you want to hang out with, right? Like shows
like The Office, these workplace situational comedies or dramas. It's like,

(27:23):
I want to see these guys for 20 episodes a year, whatever.
Just like get up to high jinks, just do some stuff.
Maybe there'll be some plot lines about love, death and marriages,
and it's a little bit soapy, and this show is
a little bit of that soapiness to it as well.
But it's also very firmly in terms of its structure
and themes, that classic kind of prestige show like more focused.

(27:45):
It's trying to tell a particular story. It's got eight
episodes here or eight episodes there. The stakes are really high.
It's really grappling with big, complex ideas about trauma and
life and work and family and all that sort of stuff,
and it feels like it's kind of trying to do
both those things and not doing it well. Like there's
almost a version of the show where the stakes aren't
so high, it's not so fucking intense and there's so

(28:06):
much swearing. And it's just like today is about Marcus
trying to, like, go to the donut store and figure
out what his new donut recipe is. And if the
tension isn't ratcheted up, you can just enjoy that. And
then you look forward to the CID episode or the
comedy episode. But the show doesn't want to give up
being a very serious, dark kind of a series, and
I think that is also feeding into why it feels

(28:28):
a bit tonally mixed here. Do you guys have thoughts
on that?

S3 (28:31):
Yeah, I think that's right. I think you can either
develop character or plot or both if you're a great show,
but this season seems to be doing none. The plot
is at a stasis. The characters are at a stasis.
And then what might be the experimental element of the show?
And of course, like I do appreciate that he's mixing

(28:51):
it up in the first Christopher story is mixing it
up in the first episode and some of these episodes,
but I don't think it's, um, I don't I don't
think it's it's working. And he's lost. What did actually
make the show great in the first and also to
that tonal difference, there's a lot of the fact family
comes into this. Matty Matheson and his brother have a

(29:12):
bit more of a lead role in the first five episodes,
and it's very clear that they're there for some comic
relief in between all the yelling. But their scenes are
very slapsticky, and the juxtaposition just feels really like we've
got to have some hecticness now. We've got to have
some lightness. And I also found that that tonally, it
couldn't quite pick whether it wanted to make us laugh

(29:32):
or cry, love or hate. It was. Yeah, it was
a bit confusing.

S2 (29:36):
Yeah, I really found that. And, you know, we were
going to talk about, I guess, like what we think
is working and not working for the season. And like
for me, in terms of what's not working, I would
definitely say that the comedy element is it's like, again,
I feel like I'm like watching the head noise of
Christopher Cetera on screen. Like, not only has there been
a little bit of chat around the fact that, you know,

(29:57):
is there a bit of like, nomination fraud for The Bear?
It gets nominated in the comedy category for the Emmys,
and it's swept that category last season. But like this
show is not a comedy, and there's always a conversation
around that. But like, there was some kind of chatter
online about, like, is the show like shoehorning in these
comedy scenes? And it's always been kind of funny, but
especially like, yeah, as you said, Mel, the fact that,

(30:18):
you know, like Jack and his brothers have been so clearly, like,
slotted in as this comedic relief and previously in previous seasons,
like he had this, you know, like funny interactions with
Richie and they all felt so organic as they were
trying to fucking revive the beef and then start the bear.
Whereas now it's like we have these really intense scenes
and then we cut to fuck, like buffing a floor
or trying to measure up a glass. And it's so

(30:40):
like it just feels so jarring. It's like, you know,
you're watching like comedic relief and it just has the
reverse effect. And and for me, it feels like such
a shame because the show has always been so good
at blending this really intense trauma and drama with like,
really funny bits of very natural comedy. And now it,
you know, like, feels like a box is being ticked.

S1 (31:10):
I think what's interesting, reflecting back on season two, I
don't know how you guys feel, but the two episodes
just stand out to me of fishes and forks and
I feel like everyone remembers those. And they came in
the second half of the season and they were really big,
big set piece kinds of things and doing very different things,
but showing you the absolute highs and emotional lows of

(31:30):
what television can evoke within you. If this show in
its final half has a couple of episodes like that,
I think that will probably drown out our issues with
the first half of the season. I think it's still
the key issue, still seems to be too many episodes
for the amount of plot and development that they've got,
but I am pretty interested to check back in next

(31:51):
week and see how we go. But before we finish
on the bear, I had a question for you guys.
It kind of leads me to a prediction I want
to make about where this season or where the show
is going. Story wise, the food on the show is
obviously a show about fine dining, restaurants and and food
is a key part of it. I've started to come

(32:13):
to the conclusion, or perhaps the realization that I don't
think the food on this show looks particularly good. What
do you guys think?

S2 (32:20):
I think I would if I was in Chicago living
in this fictional universe, I would be going to the
sandwich window and not the restaurant.

S3 (32:27):
I agree, I'm a vegetarian, but I reckon they made
those beef shots look quite sumptuous compared to compared to
the fine dining shots that Carmy's making.

S1 (32:36):
Actually sort of. You guys have stepped on my theory here.
I wonder whether the arc of this show is going
to be. After trying to prove himself in the fine
dining world and saying, originally, I don't care about the
chef's star and then going for the chef's star and
realizing perhaps that dealing with all of his issues through

(33:00):
pouring his energy into a fine dining kitchen is not
the outcome here. In fact, it is alienating him and
everyone else involved from the people they love. We end
up back at the original Beef of Chicago, because it's
interesting that this season has the guy making those sandwiches.
They look great. It's successful. They're talking about how that's
the only part of the business making money. I kind

(33:21):
of think the show is going to end with them
shutting down the bear and saying, let let's just make
these delicious sandwiches in honor of Mike. That's that's my prediction. Yeah.

S3 (33:30):
That seems like a classic Carmy move to destroy everything.
He's made everyone build from him and once again run
away from all his troubles, financial and food, and just
make sandwiches again. Yeah, that's.

S2 (33:42):
Like I've been saying, I'm not enjoying the show. We're
not going to fucking character assassinate my boy kami. Here.
A few things to add before we finish up on
the bear. Uh, number one, I think maybe that is right.
And I feel like they have kind of, um, given
us a few, like, clues along the way. Even in
episode five, there's a moment where kami, who has basically
shut out everyone in his work life, family life, everything
he like, you know, they drop some trays and he

(34:03):
finds himself with Ibrahim, the guy who's running, you know,
the beef sandwich window. And he just they look at
each other and he's like, am I fucking this up?
And I thought that was interesting. You know, he like, yeah.
In the kitchen hierarchy Ibrahim is kind of like down
the bottom. He's just doing the sandwich window. But he
can't be like really genuinely asks him like, am I
ruining this? And you're kind of.

S3 (34:20):
Insightful of him, isn't it? Yeah.

S2 (34:22):
Don't just leave him alone. But I would say it's
very funny. I was reading, uh, like a story, a
story from Eater.com, you know, that website. And they were
talking particularly about the food. It was a food writer
writing this review, and they were like, you know, the
restaurants I love, they each have like an identity and
a theme. And, you know, Osman, you own a restaurant.
You know how important it is to to know.

S1 (34:39):
I feel like I'm uniquely placed out of many people
in this world to comment on, on this show. Exactly.

S2 (34:44):
But she was like the food that I see Carmy
making has like, no identity. Like, all we ever get
told is that he's a genius and he's excellent, but like,
none of his food seems to make sense to him.
It's just like really fine dining. Like, I don't know,
I don't mouth water over any of the food. I
still think about the omelet from last season that Syd
made like she whipped up, but the food here is
just like it's the worst of what people think of

(35:04):
fine dining, I reckon.

S1 (35:05):
I think that's spot on, and I think that Christopher
knows enough about fine dining to understand that as well. Like,
I don't think this is an accident. I think it
only makes sense if it concludes with the realization that
this is not authentic to him. Like we talked about this,
I think in season two when they're making the bear
and they're like, well, what is our menu going to be?
It's like, if you don't have a vision for your menu,

(35:26):
what the hell are you doing? You're sort of just
like fulfilling this role that you've observed without that kind
of creative spark, that passion that drives you. He's in
the kitchen every episode. Venison with a bearnaise foam. Like,
none of that makes sense. And I and I think
even though it's annoying to see so much of that stuff,
if the payoff is I'm a fucking idiot, these delicious

(35:46):
beef sandwiches are the best thing in the world. That's
what I'm going to do. Yeah. Fair enough.

S2 (35:52):
And so I just wanted to lastly ask, uh, I
realize you're kind of like, uh, the uncle in your restaurant, but, like,
if you came off air today and you had, like,
a voicemail from your head chef and he was like, yo, Oz,
I've decided we're changing the menu every single day. Uh, also,
I need $1 million for micro herbs. Would you be like,
absolutely not. Or would you back the creativity?

S1 (36:14):
Well, that's that's what the show does get I think so. Well,
it nails this. The various pressures of running a restaurant
in a kind of a post Covid era. It's like
we want the best possible ingredients because that's how you
make the best food. But that's pretty expensive and it's
getting more expensive and farmers markets are struggling. We want
to change the menu to be responsive to what's seasonally in,

(36:37):
you know, being being produced or being grown. That's really
hard to do. You don't have, uh, you don't have
like an expectation from the people coming into the restaurant.
The chefs are not always communicating effectively with the front
of house. These are all the challenges. You don't make
the intake you expect for that week that puts pressure on.
You've got to cut back all that stuff, even down

(36:58):
to shit. We've been reviewed this week. We didn't know
they're coming to take a photo. All of that stuff
plays out in fine dining land, and I think the
show does that well. I think what's still kind of
missing is like, to what purpose? To what purpose? That
we exploring their anxieties about the fine dining space. I
didn't answer your question directly, I realized, Thomas, But, um,

(37:18):
you know, I think it's a partnership. I did. I did, though,
have a message with my chef this morning about something
financial related, but.

S8 (37:25):
We'll keep.

S1 (37:25):
The details of that private.

S3 (37:27):
I will say, I think that if it does have
some standout episodes in the last five, that could save
the season, because I remember absolutely hating the first five
episodes of season two. I thought they were so sappy
and sentimental. And and then the last half absolutely saved it.
So I feel like I'm not completely ready to write
off the bear. I think it could redeem itself. And

(37:50):
even if it just has two episodes that everyone talks
about forever, that that that'll be something for me.

S2 (37:55):
Okay, firstly, I would say you hated last season because
you didn't like that there was a love story and
you thought Claire was a manic pixie dream girl and
you just didn't want a bar of her, which apparently
seems to be in agreeance with what Christopher Storer thinks,
because she's basically only exists as a flashback now.

S8 (38:10):
It didn't work out. Sorry, Claire, but.

S2 (38:12):
No, I, I remember last season I didn't dislike the
first five as much as you and then the back five,
like really, really crushed it. I do think even if
the next five and you know, we've kind of all
read ahead in terms of like a little bit of
reviews and it seems that there are some really good
moments coming in in the back half of the season.
I still don't know, even if the next five absolutely
smack it out of the park. I don't, I just

(38:33):
know for a fact in my fucking soul that I
didn't feel the same watching these first five as I
have previously watching the show. Like it's just it's edged
off for me and so I don't know, I think
it'll yeah, unfortunately I don't know how good this season
can be. Even if the next five are absolutely stellar.

S3 (38:47):
Will you hang up your apron?

S2 (38:49):
Well, I don't know. I just yeah, I have to
seriously think about it.

S3 (38:53):
My question is, is I don't know if Molly Gordon,
because I did avoid reading about the next episodes. I
don't know if Molly Gordon is coming back to play Claire,
and I don't know if I want her to. I
don't know if that's actually going to be really good
for the show or really bad. So I am interested
to see how they explore that or if they if
they go there.

S1 (39:10):
I'm very proud of all of us showing restraint in this.
Thanks for. Yeah. So we'll be back next week with, uh,
the next five where, you know, maybe Thomas in real
time can, like, burn his apron. Um, in terms of
how he's feeling, put on the Marcus beanie. Do you
guys want to do a bit of a presumed innocent
check in?

S3 (39:28):
Yes, I do, yes, I do.

S1 (39:29):
So you guys talked about this with Meg? Uh, really
great chat. When I was off. I didn't get to
talk to you guys about it. Um, we're up to
episode four of that show just to put my, uh,
thoughts and feelings on the table. I really like this show.
I think it's great. Um, I think Jake Gyllenhaal is
the best he's been since, like, Zodiac or Nightcrawler. Like

(39:50):
he's doing really, really well doing a similar sort of job,
I think. I think this show is is great. It's
like one of the best crime procedurals I've seen since
the night of, like, I love David E Kelley, I
love Jake, I love Bill camp, I love Elisabeth Moss,
like all the side characters in this Peter Sarsgaard, they're
all so good and I'm so hooked. And I sort

(40:11):
of sometimes hate how every episode ends in that real
obvious cliffhanger way. But the show is so good, and
there are so many great characters and twists that I
kind of don't care. I'm really, really enjoying it. And yeah,
still loving it. Four apps in I.

S3 (40:25):
Think the Night Of is a really good comparison and
I keep thinking of that. And also they keep saying
the night of in the series, but subliminal.

S8 (40:32):
Yeah.

S1 (40:32):
Bill camp was in both as well.

S8 (40:34):
So there are a lot of obvious solutions.

S3 (40:36):
But I yes, I think that's spot on. Um, I
was thinking about it. Why do I love this so much?
It's not like it's reinventing the wheel of the crime drama,
but it is so slick and the characters are all
so interesting, and the plot moves so fast that it's
just gripping to watch. And we talked about it with Meg,
but because I haven't seen the original and I don't

(40:56):
know if this deviates from the original book or movie
at all, I really don't know who is responsible. Yeah,
who done it. So, um, and they keep throwing in
new contenders. So yeah, it's got me completely hooked. And
I would say it's maybe the best crime show I've
seen this year or in some time.

S2 (41:13):
Yeah, I reckon it's 100% one of the shows of
the year. And it is funny because it's because it's
David E Kelley. It does. It almost feels like it's
it feels very contemporary and stuff, but it feels also
very 90s like, especially with the cliffhanger thing at the
end of each episode. And it's like, you know, big
moment and then like you kind of like shock and
awe and then like, the credits roll. I feel like
that's such a 90s tool that they used to use
in these shows, especially David E Kelley. Um, but yeah,

(41:36):
I think it's it's definitely one of the shows of
the year and especially, I guess, you know, coming off
the back of talking about the bear. But again, I
reckon like the ensemble casting for this Is so good, like,
you could, I could happily watch an entire bottle episode
of Peter Sarsgaard being a fucking slime ball or like,
I mean, we do get so much of Bill camp
and his wife and even their home life is like
such an interesting dynamic. Like everyone, you.

S1 (41:57):
Know, they're a real couple in real life.

S8 (41:59):
No, really.

S1 (42:00):
Yeah, yeah. Elizabeth Marvel and Bill camp, which I think
adds an awesome layer. It makes it feel so real
watching them.

S8 (42:05):
Yeah.

S2 (42:05):
Especially especially because like the way they bicker feels so
real and she's like concerned about his health. But you know,
like it's yeah, that's great. I didn't know that. Um,
but yeah, like I just think it's across the board,
you know, like we spoke in last week's episode about,
you know, I guess like crime shows and the idea of, like,
another really gruesome death to a young woman and how
that is becoming tired. And yet, here we are. I

(42:25):
do feel like, unfortunately, this show like slots neatly into
those categories. And yet it feels like one of the
most gripping shows of the year.

S3 (42:32):
And if you compare the two leads, Jeremy Allen White
as Carmy and Jake Gyllenhaal, they're both moody and hot,
quote unquote and complete quote unquote complicated men, but who
don't say a lot and are obviously just kind of
messing up their lives and everyone else's in the process
of dealing with their issues. But like the way they
do it with Jake Gyllenhaal, it's complicated. It's way more

(42:54):
complicated than what they're doing with kami. And you kind
of hate him. You feel for him, you understand him.
It it has a different emotional complexity to it. I
think if you're looking at those leads.

S2 (43:05):
Would you say he's so.

S8 (43:06):
Sexy?

S1 (43:06):
Jake Gyllenhaal I mean, he's incredibly jacked in this. It's
crazy how jacked he is.

S8 (43:12):
I know I was.

S3 (43:12):
Thinking like, if that was my I don't want to
say daddy, but like.

S8 (43:16):
You can say daddy.

S3 (43:18):
If I was those children and that was my dad. Like,
imagine having Jake Gyllenhaal looking like that as your father.

S1 (43:24):
Yeah, he's come off the, um, the road. What's that film?

S8 (43:28):
Oh, yeah. Roadhouse.

S1 (43:29):
Yeah. He's come off the Roadhouse set just straight into, like,
playing a prosecutor. And there's a couple of scenes in
the first few where he swims a lot, so you're like, oh,
that's why he's jacked. I don't think you get that
jacked from doing a couple of laps. Uh, Jake G.

S3 (43:41):
I mean, he's doing a bit of other physical activity
as well.

S8 (43:44):
I mean, also, I.

S2 (43:45):
Think, like we've all seen enough, like police, prosecutors. My
dad's a criminal lawyer. I've been to work with him. No,
fucking none of them look like Jake Gyllenhaal. They look
like Bill camp.

S3 (43:52):
I love that you brought your dad into it.

S1 (43:55):
To go back to your point, Mel, about, you know,
how it compares to the film. I've seen the film.
I don't know whether or not like it'll resolve itself
in the same way. And I've got to say, even
if I've seen the film, I don't like, the show
has enough going on that I'm still pretty fascinated and
glued to my seat. One of the most obvious changes
that I think is a really great change, and you

(44:15):
probably won't be surprised to hear this. The role of
Caroline Polhemus, the murdered woman played by Greta Scacchi in
the film, very reflective of the social attitude towards like
women in Hollywood in the 90s in the sense that
she's basically, like, slut shamed for what she's done and
you don't really feel, I mean, like, you obviously feel

(44:36):
sorry for her because she's dead, but the film is
not that sympathetic to her. Whereas I think the character here,
played by Renate Reinsve, is far more interesting, far more complicated.
She gets around to like life before you find out
a lot more about her. And I think that's a
really smart change that they've made to the show. And
just the last thing I want to say, I don't
know how to pronounce his last name. O-T Fagbenle, who

(44:57):
plays Nico Della Guardia, who's from the, um, he's so good, too.
He's so good. And he he's English, so he doesn't
sound like that. So he's doing this thing with, like,
his chin jutting forward and that kind of like, you know,
arrogant tone that he has. I would watch an entire
spin off show, like David E Kelley loves doing spin offs.
I'd love to see him just being this kind of
dodgy chief prosecutor. Uh, in, in Chicago, just.

S2 (45:21):
Bullying Peter Sarsgaard. Those two.

S8 (45:23):
Together are.

S2 (45:24):
So they make my skin.

S8 (45:25):
Crawl, I love it.

S2 (45:26):
It's. Yeah, it's it's it's it's such a good show. And, um,
I annoyingly I watched ahead on the screen as which
we get access to for review purposes, but they don't
drop the finale until like, the data goes here, which
is still a month away. So I'm now just like
kind of stewing on this, but, uh, yeah, that's obviously I.

S1 (45:44):
Thought about going ahead with the screeners, but I decided
against that for that reason. I don't want to catch
up and have to wait a month. But no, I'm
super hooked. And maybe we should check in again at
the finale and see if it's delivered. All right, guys,
before we round out, we've got our regular Impress Your
Friends segment sharing something we've watched, read, listened to, Consumed
in culture over the past week. Thomas, why don't you

(46:06):
go first on this one?

S2 (46:07):
Yeah. Perfect. Uh, this is another TV show. Uh, I thought, look,
we all know, uh, the countdown to the Olympics is on. It's,
I don't know, however many days away. And, you know,
we've all kind of really gotten into these, like, fly
on the wall sports documentaries that Netflix has been doing
breakpoint and, um, like the football ones and the, you know,
NFL ones and stuff. But this is Sprint on Netflix. Uh,

(46:29):
it comes out on Friday. It's ten episodes, and I
found it so fascinating and like, so basically it takes
you inside the particularly the 100 metre male sprint circuit
in the year leading up to the Olympic final. Uh,
and I guess it's always been the blue ribbon event
for the Olympics. You know, obviously Usain Bolt won it
three Olympics in a row. It's kind of that one
event that everyone tunes into. It's like everything to athletics.

(46:52):
And it follows, I guess, the major contenders. And I
just found it so interesting to meet these guys. The
first episode is basically about the Olympic champion, the Italian
Marcell Jacobs, and then like the next up and comer,
Noah Lyles, this young American guy. And basically those two
are going to be like it seems battling it out
at the Olympics. But it just shows you like what
goes into the training for this, how insane it is

(47:13):
to like spend your life basically working on a nine
second run. It did the exact thing that I want
a sports documentary to do, which is like give you
insight into a part of this, I guess, like arena
that you never really go into or you have no
interest in. So yeah, that Sprint on Netflix, I really,
really enjoyed it.

S1 (47:28):
Great shot. Very excited to watch a bunch of sport
docos in the lead up to the greatest sporting event
every four years.

S3 (47:34):
Mine actually is also a sporting choice. Like if this
isn't enough reason why we shouldn't be enough to get
us sent to the Olympics, I don't know what is.

S8 (47:45):
I reckon that's a long shot.

S1 (47:46):
Every time I bigger issues in the fire, Mel. Yeah.

S3 (47:49):
That's true. Still, every time I see the sports editor here,
I'm like, we're ready to go. Like, we've got our
bags packed. Um. Uh, mine is the tour de France.

S1 (47:58):
Oh, thank God someone mentioned this.

S3 (48:01):
Which I know you're a big fan of. I don't
think we've quite convinced you, Thomas, yet to get into cycling,
but I would like to.

S2 (48:07):
It is very funny. Like whenever we talk in our
group chat, there's very few things that, like all three
of us don't like, discuss together. And then whenever you
guys are talking cycling, have you noticed I just disappear
for like a day?

S8 (48:16):
Yeah, yeah.

S1 (48:16):
I think you and I have a couple of things
that we just talk that Mel politely ignores, probably for
like sake of her mental health and sanity. But there
are not many things that just Mel and I are
on a track on that you aren't in. And it's
like Latour is the main one. It is.

S8 (48:29):
Yeah.

S3 (48:29):
That's it. It's stage five tonight on SBS. Um, if
you never watched it, I honestly think you don't have
to be across the rules because cycling tours can be
very confusing. There's lots going on. There's a lot of people, teams, strategy, rules, positions.
I don't even think you need to worry about that.
You can just turn it on and watch six hours

(48:50):
of lovely countryside people riding their bikes. Great commentary team
Matthew Keenan, Bridie O'Donnell, Simon Gerrans this perfect mix of
kind of medical expertise, cycling expertise, cycling knowledge and just
enjoy yourself, enjoy the tour. Pets that pop on. That's
when people send pictures of their pets watching the tour.
Enjoy the food. It's just delightful. And Thomas, can you

(49:12):
watch it?

S1 (49:13):
I couldn't agree more. We should have done a whole
episode on this like it is amazing to watch. There
was a bit of the trivia that you get gourmet
cooking telling you what regional cuisine is like. There was
this bit where Brady was talking about that, a town
in Italy, because the tour started this year in Italy, um,
that they're going through and they're like that building there
that there was like this helicopter shot. This old museum

(49:34):
holds the Beretta pistol that was used to shoot Benito Mussolini. Yeah.
And I'm like, that is awesome. I am just watching
a bunch of weird men cycle and I'm learning some history. Uh,
I'm learning some details about the history of Italian fascism.
That is great.

S2 (49:48):
Do you feel like, does it relax you? Because it's
often before bed, and I feel like you guys are
texting while I'm, like, trying to go to sleep and
you're like, ah, yeah. And this is like, is it
a cathartic thing?

S3 (49:57):
It is. It is very pleasant view. But I also
really do admire the athleticism of these men competing like
they go back to back for three weeks. They're covering
hundreds of kilometers at gradients that are I mean, I
don't know if you've ever ridden a bike, but gradients
that are completely insane and they fall off and they
get sick and they just keep going because they have

(50:18):
this one opportunity. And their window professionally for competing is
so small that it really is high stakes. And then
you kind of wonder, like there's not heaps of money
in cycling, like it's not a sport.

S8 (50:28):
That that freaks, that.

S3 (50:29):
Total freaks they're doing this for. It's just I really
admire that too.

S1 (50:33):
I think it's similar to test cricket in a way,
in that so much of it is just very peaceful
and meditative to watch, and quite beautiful in terms of
the aerial shots over the French countryside. But then there
are these moments that kind of come up out of nowhere,
where someone will just challenge someone to win a point
in a sprint or in a climb, and you just
see something really exciting, and then it just goes back
to being this relaxing lull of the waves just gently

(50:55):
crashing over you as you try to go to sleep.
It's great stuff.

S3 (50:58):
And also man the field art. So in the tour
there's a whole thing where like there's everyone in the
field does like artwork and they're they're insane. Like when
you see hundreds of tractors going around in a circle
to make the wheel of a bike, it. Yeah. Look,
just watch it tonight. We'll text.

S8 (51:15):
Okay, fine.

S2 (51:15):
I will give it a go. You have impressed me,
and I am your friend. So, look, I.

S8 (51:19):
No doubt.

S2 (51:20):
Our listeners will get on.

S1 (51:21):
Board. That's why we called it that. That's why we
called it that. Um, mine is a TV show. Um,
you guys remember the film that came out in 1994?
Interview with the vampire?

S8 (51:32):
I do, yeah, starring.

S1 (51:33):
Brad Pitt and Tom cruise. Kirsten Dunst, Christian Slater, based
on the novels by Anne Rice. Turns out, like, quietly,
for the last two years, there's been one of the
best TV series around. That is an adaptation of the
books as well. It's a TV adaptation compared to a
film adaptation. It's on ABC iview actually. Interview with a vampire.

(51:55):
It stars Australia's Sam Reid, also Jacob Anderson. It's really,
really good. It's not that kind of like True Blood
Twilight sort of thing. It's a bit darker, a bit
more interesting. It feels more contemporary in terms of what
it's trying to grapple with. The books famously have these
quite sharp, queer themes to them that the film largely eradicated,

(52:17):
like very, very subtle. They're they're back in this in
a really interesting and fun and sharp way. And I
think it reminded me of, like, the Ripley TV adaptation
in that way, where we had this Ripley film that
was great, but, you know, softened some of the edges
of the original source material, and then it takes you
some time to to delve back into them. Interview with

(52:37):
a vampire is is doing that. It's sort of like
going back to the text and picking the bits that
are interesting, but maybe didn't feel right in the in
the early to mid 90s. It's just been renewed for
a third season, but the first two are on iview.
If you're just looking for something that's like fun and
interesting and dramatic, give this series a go. Sam Reid
people might know him from the newsreader. He's really great.

(52:59):
Great Australian actor. Great in this series. That's my rec.

S3 (53:02):
That's a good one. Is it scary?

S1 (53:05):
No, I wouldn't say so.

S8 (53:06):
Yeah, but.

S3 (53:06):
You're pretty brave.

S1 (53:07):
It's like a it's like about vampires, but like a
horror themed show, you know, it's like American Horror Story.
It's not going to make you, uh, jump up and be.
I mean, it might. I don't know about your threshold
for these things.

S8 (53:18):
I mean.

S2 (53:19):
Considering you spent the last six weeks just watching polite.

S8 (53:21):
Countryside and, you know, tractor art, I.

S3 (53:24):
Get the heebie jeebies pretty easily.

S1 (53:26):
Guys, that was a great conversation about a bunch of television.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the tour, and looking
forward to chatting with you guys next week about what
will hopefully be a better and more redeeming second half
of the bear.

S3 (53:40):
Looking forward to.

S8 (53:41):
It. Let it rip.

S1 (53:46):
This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Huang.
If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!