The crisis in Australian music. Plus, did 'The Bear' redeem itself?

The most popular Australian song in this year was released 11 years ago. The dominance of Vance Joy's Riptide, as well the command 40-year-old tracks by AC/DC have on the charts have highlighted a massive problem in Australian music: It's never been harder for Australian artists to break through, get played or make a living touring. Osman, Thomas and Mel discuss the situation and how the disintegration of live music and festivals, and the dominance of platforms like Spotify, YouTube and TikTok are all combining to squash Australian music. They also discuss what steps could be taken to support the local industry.

Plus dissecting the new trailers for Gladiator II and F1, the Nicole Kidman and Zac Efron film A Family Affair, and look at whether the second of The Bear season three was any better than the first.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:07):
Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a
culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
where we dive into the latest in the world of
pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Kembery and
Thomas Mitchell. What's up team? Good morning.

S2 (00:21):
Everybody. I am feeling very good today. I think Osman,
you're looking particularly fine. I must say I don't want
to do too much of a loving. But you're looking
very like he's looking well rested. Trim. This is a
good angle for you.

S3 (00:32):
What an original way for us to start the podcast again.
By you guys complimenting each other on your physicality.

S1 (00:39):
Well, I, I'm not feeling particularly well rested, so I'm
glad I'm looking good. Thomas. Thank you so much. Mel.
You look lovely. Delightful as always. Sparkling.

S3 (00:50):
Thank you. You both look lovely.

S2 (00:52):
We've covered that up. Osman. How? I was curious to know.
How is it going with the parents in town? I
know they're visiting.

S1 (00:59):
My parents did visit. It was my birthday last week.
End of last week. I got some very nice birthday
messages from a bunch of people. I got some very
mean ones from you guys. People who listened to the
podcast last week will recall that Thomas made a jibe
at me being a marvel guy. He sent me a
very extended birthday message comparing me to Tony Stark and Spider-Man,

(01:20):
which I did not appreciate at all. Um, yeah. My
parents are in town for a couple of days. It
was nice to see them. Did you get a cake?
I did not get a cake. I got a very
nice sweater from my mum for my birthday, which I
feel like is a very mum gift to get, but
also it was her birthday. Her birthday is just a
few days after mine. So, um. Yeah, that was nice
to celebrate with them. They're on holiday in Tasmania right now.

(01:42):
She told me she, uh, listened to. Well, she listened
to the pod all the time. And she's real deep
in Presumed Innocent right now. She's loving it. She remembers
the movie from the 90s, but is loving the TV show.

S2 (01:54):
Yeah, I feel like people are really getting into Presumed
Innocent and like, I'm very much here for it, so
I'm just dying for the finale at this point.

S3 (02:01):
Well, we'll have to get Mama Farooqi on the yeah,
on the line for it.

S1 (02:06):
Um, there's quite a bit we're going to talk about
on the show today, but there's some exciting trailer related
news to, I think, maybe kick things off with. We
talked about the Gladiator two pictures that were revealed last week.
We got the trailer on Wednesday morning.

S4 (02:25):
Whose head could I give you that would satisfy this fury?

S5 (02:29):
The entire Roman army's too much. The general will do
little things.

S4 (02:36):
And my throne must fall to my tool kit. I
need only give it a push.

S6 (02:42):
Will you make it out alive?

UU (02:45):
All right, all right. Tears on the mausoleum floor. Blood
stains the Coliseum doors.

S1 (02:52):
They really went all out for this trailer. That was
that was a lot of Denzel. There was a lot
of Paul Mescal. There was the Coliseum being flooded with water.
There was no church in the wild.

S3 (03:04):
Sorry, you've forgotten the gladiator riding the rhino. That was
a real highlight for me. That was a.

S1 (03:09):
Flashback to Russell in the first Gladiator, and maybe some
suggestions that Paul's character is his long lost son. Maybe.
Did you guys think that?

S2 (03:17):
I was actually surprised at how much like Russell or
just like Russell Energy was in the trailer, like they're
really leaning on, I guess, the legacy of the first
Gladiator film, which we kind of talked about being a
bit of an issue. Um, I just thought, like, look,
to be honest, the trailer isn't amazing, but it appealed
to my specific set of tastes. Like I got hyped
for the film after watching it. I did think it

(03:37):
was very funny. My absolute favorite take from seeing this
so far is a tweet that said Respect to Denzel
Washington for doing no accent work and acting and sounding
like a corrupt cop from Yonkers.

S7 (03:48):
Because.

S2 (03:48):
He just they even do the Denzel laugh in the trailer.
Like it's just it's crazy.

S3 (03:52):
Oh, I thought I struggled to get through this. I
can't imagine how I'm going to find the whole thing.
I mean, it looked incredible.

S1 (03:57):
You didn't like the trailer.

S3 (03:58):
It was just it was just so much. And I
kept thinking of, you know, there's that like Coco Chanel
quote that's like, always take one thing off before you
leave the house. I feel like Ridley Scott needs to
learn that with special effects. It was I mean, it
looked incredible, but all the water shots, boats, there were
a lot of arrows there, a lot of swords in
the air. I just it feels like it's going to
be a lot of a lot of fighting. And I do.

S2 (04:19):
Think like, you know, choosing no church in the wild,
it's such a big choice. And already people are a
bit like, oh, is this like cheapening the legacy of Gladiator?
I thought the song worked, and I mean, I love
that song.

S1 (04:30):
I was talking to one of our colleagues, Angus, yesterday,
funnily enough, about the use of like, big Kanye produced
tracks in trailers, and there's a few really great examples,
like power I think was used in The Social Network. Uh,
Black Skinhead was used in something around that same time
as well. There's something about like that maximalist sound that

(04:52):
gets you really excited. Also, just the repetition of the
line about like the Colosseum again and again while we're
looking at shots of the Colosseum. It's a little bit obvious,
but but still pretty fun.

S2 (05:00):
It is funny, though, because I saw like this, you know,
have you seen that Kanye has like texted someone saying
he's retiring from music? Like, do you reckon he saw
the trailer and was like, fuck, this is it for me?

S7 (05:09):
I'm out.

S1 (05:10):
Um, it was Wolf of Wall Street was Black Skinhead,
I think.

S3 (05:13):
I was surprised to see the Russell throwback in the trailer.
And then I was wondering, are they going to do
the are you not entertained line?

UU (05:18):
Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?

S1 (05:23):
So I was generally excited about this trailer and like
I really in this era. Yeah, it's hit and miss. Uh,
The Last Jewel. Really, really good. But we talked about
this Napoleon. Not as good. I don't have super high
hopes for this, but I thought the trailer looked fun.
But yeah, two bits that worried me. One. what you
just said. Mel Russell's not in this film, and he's

(05:45):
very upset about not being in this film, so using
him and his story so heavily feels like a bit
unfair to to rusty. The other thing I'm doubling down
on the Paul Mescal, uh, situation here. I'm not saying
that he's not a good actor, but, you know, we
talk about women actresses who have, like, you know, that

(06:06):
kind of meme of a period film with a woman actress.
And the line is like, I can't believe her because
she's like, seen Instagram to talk about this with like Elle,
Elle Fanning and stuff. They're like, this just doesn't make sense.
She's got like a face and a look for a
modern environment. I feel like Paul Mescal has that too. Like,
this is a guy who has just left Laneway Festival

(06:26):
and walked into the set of Gladiator two. It doesn't
really work for me.

S2 (06:30):
Yes, I completely agree. Like he just we kind of
spoke about this on text, like Russell at least looked
like rough. And, you know, I could believe that he was,
you know, a slave that came good. Whereas Paul Mescal
just doesn't have like, he seriously, he basically made us
be wearing the fucking short shorts. Like, it just doesn't.

S1 (06:47):
Fully, fully. He somehow managed to parlay the short, short
thing into a movie where he can show off his
legs and his manicured beard, which doesn't feel era appropriate,
I'm sorry to say. Yeah, I.

S3 (06:57):
Feel like this is one of those cases where, like,
the kind of paratext around him is going to influence
how we view the film. And maybe it wasn't the
wisest casting choice, but then who would have you like?
Who would you prefer to see as a gladiator apart
from each other?

S2 (07:11):
I mean, Osman would be a great casting. Probably.

S7 (07:13):
Probably more appropriate.

S2 (07:14):
To be honest. I know someone that's like a bit
like ugly. Beautiful. Like Jesse Plemons would be good. Like,
stick that motherfucker in Gladiator. Yes.

S3 (07:21):
Okay, I like yeah, I can see that.

S1 (07:22):
That's a great, great call. The other trailer that dropped
this week that I got excited about. I don't think
I've talked to you guys about it yet. F1 starring
Brad Pitt, Red.

S8 (07:32):
Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston, now McLaren all have a speed
on the straights. Our shot is battling in the turns.
We need to build our car for combat.

S9 (07:42):
How am I supposed to make that safe?

S8 (07:45):
Who said anything about safe?

S1 (07:58):
Directed by Joseph Kosinski, who did Top Gun Maverick, which
was an awesome, awesome, awesome film. The trailer didn't like
reveal a lot. There was like, a lot of Queen
and just cars racing around. Apparently they filmed a lot
of this film at actual Grand Prix like around the World.
I'm not a huge F1 head, but I've been to
the Grand Prix, I enjoy it. I really like Brad Pitt,

(08:19):
I like sports films. This looks pretty fun. How you
guys finding the vibes on this one?

S3 (08:24):
I was shocked about how little this trailer revealed about
the film. I think Brad has like one line in
it and then the rest of it is just car shots.
I kept waiting for like, the plot to be shown. Um,
I'm excited about this. I like F1 films, I like
the F1, love the grid walk he was on. Actually,
I saw them chasing Brad Pitt on the grid walk
just over the weekend. I'm um. I'm excited about this film.

(08:45):
I think it will be good.

S2 (08:46):
Yeah, I think so too. I from what I could
piece together, like from the trailer, it seems like. So
Javier Bardem obviously plays like a team principal, which I think.

S3 (08:52):
Is.

S2 (08:53):
Really good, really good casting. Like he looks like that,
but and then what? So it seems like Brad is
maybe the older driver, and there's that young dude that
we see in the teaser trailer who's like, looks like,
you know, kind of the Lewis Hamilton superstar, I'm guessing.

S1 (09:05):
And the films produced or ep'd by Lewis Hamilton. So
I think he's putting a bit of himself in there. Yeah.

S2 (09:10):
Right. So I mean, like, I don't know, I think
Brad Pitt is such a funny one right now. He's
at a stage of his career where he's just kind
of like doing whatever he probably wants to spend time doing,
and this very much seems like that. But yeah, I mean,
I am a big Brad guy, too, in news that
will shock nobody. So I will definitely go and see this. Yeah,
a lot of.

S1 (09:26):
People saying he's too old to play an F1 driver
and I like I mean firstly it's a movie like
relax everyone, take a deep breath. Tom Cruise is too
old to be a Top Gun pilot. That's also the case.
But I think his character is supposed to be like
a retired driver who comes out of retirement to help
train a new. But that's a cool story. That's like
a framework that I'm into, like a creed, sort of,

(09:46):
you know, thing going on.

S2 (09:47):
Imagine the insurance overheads on getting Brad Pitt to be
allowed to drive an F1 car. But I mean, if
Nicole Kidman has taught us anything, we'll talk about her shortly.
You're never too old to play something that doesn't.

S3 (09:57):
You never too old to make your dreams come true.

S7 (09:59):
Correct.

S1 (09:59):
Well, I mean, let's get to that one today. Today
on the show, we're going to talk about something I've
wanted to discuss for a while, and that is kind
of what the hell is going on with Australian music
right now. The Aria charts show that Australian artists are
regularly struggling to break into the top 50. The biggest
Australian acts that are breaking in are acts from like 40,
50 years ago, like AC, DC and crowded House. Generally speaking,

(10:23):
it's very, very hard for local, younger, up and coming,
even successful acts to get recognition, to get airplay, to
get featured on streaming platforms, to sell tickets to shows.
We're going to take a look at what's going on
and what could be done to shift things a little bit.
We're also going to take a look at the second
half of the Bear season three, whether our views on
this season have shifted as we make our way through

(10:46):
the show. But first up, you alluded to this Thomas
Nicole Kidman, something we got to talk about earlier this year.
Amazon gave us the idea of you, the age gap
romantic comedy starring Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galitzine. I thought
it was fine. A lot of people didn't like it.
But yeah, just, you know, it's a it's a light, cheap,
fun comedy from from Amazon. And a couple of weeks ago,

(11:10):
Netflix gave us their version of what is literally the
same story. Essentially, it's a family Affair stars Nicole Kidman
and Zac Efron. It's another age gap romantic comedy, where
Nicole Kidman plays an older woman who has a meet
cute with a famous younger man. They start dating. Drama ensues.
The film went to number one pretty much straight away
on Netflix. This is a very cursed film. I have

(11:34):
to say. I felt quite grim about the state of
the world and of cinema watching this movie. Let's talk
about it. Well, what were your guys top line reactions
to A family affair?

S3 (11:45):
I thought a family affair made the idea of you
look like a nuanced and poignant movie. Yes.

S1 (11:50):
Thank you, thank you.

S3 (11:51):
Which I didn't think at the time. But now, in comparison,
the idea of you wasn't so bad. I agree with you. Also,
I think I'm very confused because there's lots of think
pieces going around that are like, these are really great for,
you know, showing that older women have lives and can
have sexual desire and rediscover themselves. Like, I think we've

(12:12):
all been seduced by this because I don't actually know
if that's what's really going on here. I mean, the
women in this in both of the shows, a they're
a certain type of woman. Like they essentially function as
like authenticators for the man, like they're the ones who
can show who they really are to themselves, but then
they're also the same type of woman that's allowed to

(12:33):
experience this kind of love affair. They're like both artists
or in the art space. Anne Hathaway was a curator, and, um,
Nicole Kidman is a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. Um, so
I guess that's suggesting that they're in open minded communities,
and then they're both kind of recovering from either a
husband that's passed away or a traumatic relationship. So they're,

(12:55):
you know, it's not like this is what they do
all the time. This is an exceptional moment. And then
they're both have to have daughters who can be like, yeah,
but they're still maternal, right? Like they're still anchored in
their in their motherhood. Um, I don't know. Yeah. I
just think these things are really problematic. And the whole
basis of them is that we're meant to experience shock
at this relationship, which in itself is kind of problematic. Anyway.

(13:17):
I think they've dressed it up all glossy, and they're
telling us that this is empowering and good stuff, but
I just don't think it is.

S2 (13:24):
I mean, that's a super smart take. I was basically like,
Is Kathy Bates in Money Trouble?

S7 (13:30):
Like, is she a gambler?

S2 (13:31):
I could see her, like slapping the slot machine. What
is she doing in this movie? And even every scene
she has, I think she's like, what am I doing
in this movie? Uh, it was a very strange use of, like.
I don't know if either of you guys have seen
the paper boy.

S1 (13:45):
Oh, yeah. Great. That was another romantic drama between Nicole.

S2 (13:49):
And so they had, like, a vibe in that. That
was a very different tone, that film. And, like, it's
just so strange to drop in, you know, like Kathy Bates,
Nicole Kidman, Zac Efron, each in their own right, pretty
good at what they do and then just completely leave
them floundering. This movie, it felt like it almost was
close to me. It was like an Irish wish type
film the way it was. It was like so aggressively lit.

(14:11):
Everything felt fake. It, it may as well have been
like shot completely on like studio lots. It was just so,
so weird. The writing was appalling and like, what's so
strange is that later this year, Nicole is going to
do her first A24 film, Baby Girl, which is like
a very similar setup. She plays like a high powered
CEO who has an affair with a young intern. It's

(14:32):
going to be like Harris Dickinson from The Iron Claw.
And like, you know, that movie will be like, I mean,
presumably ten times better. It's just. Yeah, I mean, it
is kind of I think in this day and age,
we have to see these films as a gift because
it's rare that you get such a bad, you know, token.
It's rare you get such a bad product that we've
spoken so much about the whole mid era. This was
truly a bad gift from Netflix.

S3 (14:53):
My theory on the Nicole Kidman is that I think
she has played a string of kind of quote unquote,
prestige TV characters where she's often, ah, uh, plays a, a,
a woman who's going through it, who's complicated and is
in complicated relationships. I'm thinking of expats, big little lies. Um,
there was that crime, one she was in as well. Um,

(15:13):
and now maybe she's trying to do a rebrand to
show that Nicole Kidman can do these softer, funnier roles.

S1 (15:20):
In terms of the overall structural issues with this film
and these types of films. Mel, I couldn't agree with
you more. I think they're trying to, like, convince us
that we should feel good and like, be stoked that
they're showing us older women being sexually active when these
are kind of some of the most weirdly morally repressed
films around. I mean, at least the idea of you
had like multiple attempts to show Anne Hathaway, like trying

(15:42):
to be sexy. This film has one sort of sex
scene that is interrupted by the daughter, and the rest
of it is just her feeling guilty about the whole thing.
I don't think the politics of these movies is something
to get particularly excited about, but then the actual specific
mechanics of this, like the first scene where we meet
Nicole Kidman and Kathy Bates, it's written like the script

(16:05):
was done by I. The performances are ridiculous. The setup
is ridiculous. In that shot, there are something like two Oscars,
four Emmys, eight Golden Globes and a BAFTA. And I'm
just like, what have we done to deserve this? Right now? This.
And it's obviously a money play from everyone involved and

(16:25):
they're allowed to get that bag. But at what point
do we stand up and say actors and streamers? Making
stuff like this devalues the craft of cinema to such
an extent that audience expectations over time erode, and that
they don't understand what a good film is anymore. We

(16:45):
end up with just 100 of these things a year.
Like this is why I say it's cursed. I don't
think it's just a bad movie. I think in 20
years time, when people write about how Hollywood and the
world devolved into the grim state that it will inevitably
devolve into, they'll be like a family affair was was
a key moment in human history.

S2 (17:03):
Let's also not forget all of Zach's Kids Teen Choice
Awards that he brings to the table.

S1 (17:08):
Well, okay. And so speaking of Zach, the other thing
about this movie and I want to be careful how
I talk about this one.

S2 (17:14):
I can talk about this fucked up face.

S7 (17:16):
Is.

S1 (17:17):
Zac Efron. Looks he looks unusual. And, you know, he
he did have an accident, and he had, like, reconstructive
jaw surgery. And his body and his face. It looks unusual, right.
And I would say he looks significantly older than his
36 years. And I would say Nicole Kidman looks quite
remarkable for her 50 years. So this is an age
gap comedy where we're supposed to be like, Nicole Kidman

(17:39):
is an older woman and Zac Efron is the younger
like hot guy. She looks younger than him. And a
lot of key points in this movie that just deflates
the entire concept of the film. Surely I'm not the
only one who felt kind of weird about that.

S2 (17:51):
I think on a base level it just was distracting. Like,
I know he, you know, he had an accident and
then he had jaw surgery or whatever, but like, I mean,
I suspect in only my opinion that he like, added
a couple of things to the to the jaw surgery.
Just got a tune up and I just found it
really distracting. Like he doesn't, you know, we had like
that real run of like, heaps of Zac Efron movies.
And he was great, like really funny all the time,
like bad neighbors, all that stuff. And then like, now

(18:14):
he's just a bit it's like he just looks very different.
And in a movie where he's playing like the hot,
attractive Hollywood star and like, his aesthetic is a big
part of the character, I don't know, it then becomes
a part of what makes the movie not work.

S3 (18:27):
We should pull the Google data on like the spike
of the search. How old is Zac Efron? Because that
is exactly what I did when I turned this on,
because I was very confused.

S1 (18:37):
Yeah, it's also sad because he was in a really
good and again, criminally underwatched film from the last year,
The Iron Claw, an A24 movie, Sean Durkin's film about
the real life wrestling family, the Von Von Erichs. And
he was really good in that, like, still looked unusual,
but it made sense for him to be so built
playing like a wrestler. So all of these people can

(18:58):
do great stuff. And you mentioned the Cole film. She
will do great stuff. And yeah, look, as usual, I
could just be being overdramatic and no one will ever
think about this film again. But it does leave you
feeling like a little bit weird inside that this exists
and probably cost millions and millions of dollars at a
time when so much of the entertainment industry is struggling
to make ends meet, it just doesn't feel like the

(19:21):
budgets are working in the direction they should be.

S2 (19:23):
It's very funny that she's now she's basically. Nicole is
working with all of the Iron Claw family members except
for Jeremy Allen White.

S1 (19:30):
Yeah, yeah.

S2 (19:31):
There's your Segway.

S1 (19:32):
Speaking of Jeremy Allen White, uh, let's talk about the
second half of the Bear season three. Quick recap. We
didn't have a great time with the first five episodes
of this show. We thought they were largely treading water.
There wasn't a lot of plot or character development. There
was heaps of filler, not a lot of ideas. Annoyed

(19:53):
by some of the stylistic and experimental choices we have
not yet talked about episode six of ten, which we're
going to talk about now. And those spoilers for all
of season three of The Bear. I want to get
into it with you guys. But one of the things
that occurred to me about the second half of the show,
which generally speaking, I found significantly better than the first half,

(20:15):
this show has done that rare thing where it's kind
of accidentally struck gold with a format and a setting
and characters that are actually, at their best, quite charming,
quite fun, quite relatable, quite interesting, but it kind of
almost doesn't know what to do with it. And you
think about shows like The Office, which is a sitcom.
It's very different to the show in a lot of ways.
But the thing that worked about The Office is you

(20:36):
just kind of care about these characters and whether they
are having fun, whether they are having some emotional moments.
You don't care about the paper company of it all,
you don't care about the mechanics of Dunder Mifflin. You're
just like, I want to see this character explore their
feelings with whatever character. And that's really interesting. And I
think this show, particularly in the second half, is at
its best when there's just great characters who've been built

(20:57):
up to be really rich and interesting, talking about life
and family and marriage and these ideas. But every time
we kind of have fun in those spaces, the show
pulls us back to the kitchen and Carmy and the
world of fine dining that I think just like, deflates
all the excitement and the fun and the energy of

(21:17):
the show. And I think even though I thought the
second half was better, it just didn't get that mix right.
And ultimately, I felt like this was one of the
most disappointing series of TV that I've seen this year,
because the expectations were high and it just didn't really deliver.
So sorry to say I felt pretty sad about it.
I want to know what you guys think.

S3 (21:37):
I think that's really well put. I think we were
all love bombed by this show. It started out as
something particularly you, Thomas Mitchell. It started out as something
really great and then it just couldn't deliver on keep
delivering that. And we were all left being like, but
you were something different, right? We like we were right
to fall in love with you in the first place.
But yeah, I think the second half did get better.

(21:59):
But to me the tone of it was so inconsistent
and the pacing of the episodes so varied. Not in
a good way. It was almost like each episode was
a vignette. But then they didn't all stand together in
some episodes stood up better than others. It started to
get a bit more momentum going in this second half.
There were a few more plot things that developed and

(22:20):
there were great cameos, but I don't think it was
enough to save it. And even the standout episodes to
me were still, they were great, but they were still
kind of very predictable bear territory.

S2 (22:30):
Yeah, I know, again, like I was, I was so
prepared to like the back half and I did like
it better. But it is funny, you know, that we
obviously did part one last week and, you know, always
curious to get a vibe on what everyone's feeling and like,
you know, I shared the podcast on my Instagram and like,
literally I kind of had maybe like 20 replies and
not one person was like, ah, I'm really loving this season.

(22:51):
Like everyone is feeling the same. I think, like there's
just a disappointment because we are in a funny time
as well when there's not heaps of buzzy TV shows around,
like we're all kind of hanging our hat on this
and then like The White Lotus next year, the White
Lotus next year is bad. I'm going to be like
just completely depressed.

S7 (23:06):
But like.

S2 (23:06):
Everyone was psyched for this. And especially I think the
trajectory of the show in between seasons has just like completely,
you know, all the stars are really famous now. And
so everyone was just like, so ready. And then, you know,
it was probably setting itself up for disappointment, uh, Uh,
and even I think going into the second half, having
read so much about like, oh, you know, the napkins

(23:26):
episode by Ayo is going to be great. Ice chips
is a really great two hander. I still don't know
if it really like lifted the season for me. Everything
that the bear did so well in seasons one and two,
all of the tricks have just been completely like mismanaged
or overused. And I just think, yeah, like the show
has lost its way. It's forgotten. Like what makes it joyful.

(23:47):
And I never really thought I'd say this, but, like,
I feel like Osmond a few times you've been like,
would this be better as a 20 episode like office
style comedy? And I'm actually kind of agreeing with you now. Maybe,
maybe that's where the show could really shine, but instead
it's become fixated on like being too many things, like
the trauma drama and a workplace drama and a commentary on,
you know, the state of fine dining and, you know,

(24:07):
restaurants in general. It's just so convoluted and hamstrung by
trying to do too many things. Yeah, I think.

S3 (24:13):
They start again and do a Sydney spin off like that.
Would that's what I think we all need.

S1 (24:17):
It's so funny for a show that is about fine
dining and restaurants, every time they talk about that, it's
when I lose the most amount of interest. And we
talked about this last week. I couldn't be more in
the bag for this. As a guy who loves prestige
television and loves fine dining so much that I co-own
a fine dining restaurant, But the show's treatment of that
stuff is so grating and self-indulgent. Honestly, like the finale

(24:40):
of this season took away a lot of the momentum
that I thought the last few episodes had built up
the first half of that finale, just being these real world,
top tier chefs just sitting around a table, giving us
the same vibe on fine dining that we've heard for
three seasons. This is about family. This is about cooking
to make people happy. This is about service. It's like

(25:01):
we know that. Like, I don't care about the woman
who owns Milk Bar. Lecture me on this stuff. And
I think the other thing about the show's treatment of
fine dining is all of these ideas about it being
about hospitality and care and nurturing. The kinds of voices
in the show are these top tier, super rich, elite
chefs who run chain restaurants all around the country. It's like,

(25:24):
that's not really what they practice, so it just feels
like quite hollow to me. I can't get excited at
all about the conversations in the show about the actual
world of Restauranting.

S3 (25:35):
That final episode was quite shocking in how terrible it was.
I genuinely thought I was like, has the Fine Dining
Institute of America sponsored this episode or something.

S7 (25:47):
Like right, right.

S1 (25:48):
At some point it became like just a, a lobbying
attempt for a group of like elite restaurateurs.

S3 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah. And at the same time as they're trying to, like,
promote the benefits of fine dining, they're trying to give
us the narrative of how traumatized Carmy is, that he
has to blow up everyone else's life because he's had
such a horrible time learning how to, I don't know,
cross a chicken's legs or whatever that whole thing was about.
I just thought that last episode really was the epitome
of what was wrong with the whole season its reliance

(26:15):
on collage, its melodrama, its musical kind of heavy handedness.
All of those things that we discussed from the first
half were here in the second half, and then they
just put the little cherry on top of the cake
with this final episode.

S2 (26:27):
Yeah. And that's what I mean in terms of like,
who is this show for now? Like I feel like
in the first two seasons, you know, I don't know,
none of us are really, like, super familiar. I mean,
maybe you are Osment with the, like, Chicago dining scene,
but there were like, you know, little snippets of people
in the first two seasons that were like winks and
they were like, well used. And everyone was like, oh,
that's cool. That's like insidery. And now it's gone the

(26:47):
complete wrong way. And it's like, I don't know, he's
Christopher Storer. He and his sister have like a deep,
you know, food background. Is he just like trying to
impress these people and like, win them over by putting
them in these like really famous show because it no
longer felt like that was for the audience, that felt
like it was for the people in the show to
be like, you know, like it's weird circle jerk thing,
which is like, not what the bear has ever been about.
And like, you know, I do think all of that

(27:09):
being said, there are still some really beautiful moments in
these episodes. And like, I know we're going to talk
about the episode that was that was great. Like, we,
you know, to to go back into the world of
just that one character and get this bottle episode and,
you know, nothing kind of matches, I guess, like fishes
or forks from last season. But I still thought the
journey of Tina was good. And also it convinced me
once again that the only thing I really want to

(27:31):
eat at the bear or the beef is the Italian sandwich.

S1 (27:34):
Mm. Yeah. Let's talk about the stuff that was good.
Like the Tina episode. I enjoyed it because it was
a respite from all the wanky circle jerk stuff, and
it gave me stuff that I kind of didn't know
that I needed or wanted. But then when I got it,
I was like, this is actually cool. Like, I didn't
know anything about how long Tina had been working at
that restaurant, getting an insight into her life, getting a

(27:55):
snapshot of just like working class life in America. For
someone from that kind of background and the the struggles
that you experienced, the meeting with Jon Bernthal. Like, it's
so good to see Jon Bernthal in the show. That
was awesome. Just like 15 minutes of them sitting at
a table talking about their life, their work, their dreams,
what they want to achieve that felt like quite meaningful

(28:16):
and nice and was a really good break from all
the bullshit of the kami. Oh my God, it's so
hard to get the wishbone out of the chicken man
who gives up.

S2 (28:25):
That's what I mean. Like watching the two of them
talk like it was. That was like a really beautiful
human moment when they're like, comparing their shitty days. And he, like,
goes first and then she goes next. And that's like,
how many people do that every day when you're like,
I'm having a bad day. Me too. Like, okay, you download,
then I'll download. Like, that's the show at its very best.
You know, you've just got two people in a situation.
They find their way to one another and then like

(28:45):
we go from there and it's just so much more relatable.
So I just thought like that the episode worked really
well and like, I thought her husband was a great character.
It just. Yeah, it was it was really nice. And,
you know, I thought in terms of like a great,
you know, addition to her CV, the way that like
the repetition of her of Tina every day, like going
out to find a job, like the way it was
cut together, like it looked great. So that to me

(29:06):
was like the standout.

S3 (29:07):
Yeah, I think that episode is an achievement. But then
when you look at it in the season overall, it
just makes you more confused about what the bear is
trying to do and be. And I think you're right,
like the reason it was so welcomed was because we
just had such a lead up of fairly average episodes,
without a lot going on. I do think this show
is like very kind to its characters. There was that

(29:29):
moment in the In the Tina episode where she says
something like, she's not, she doesn't, she doesn't attack all
the younger people who have kind of dismissed her and
rolled their eyes at her because of her background. She's
very generous about it, and I do think that is
something this show does sometimes, for good or for bad,
that it's kind to its characters.

S1 (29:47):
Yeah, people are kind of like, uh, victims of circumstance
and of the structures around them, rather than being individual,
morally bad people. It's like what Tina is going through
is a structural readjustment of the Chicago economy, where people
like her are considered devalued and a whole generation of
just like young, hyper addicted to work people who don't
care about it because they're alienated, whatever. That's smart and.

S3 (30:09):
Interesting. Yeah, definitely. And very traitor with a lot of dignity.
So I thought that was really good. And then obviously
the other one was, uh, where sugar has her baby, um,
which I thought was a very another very moving, powerful episode.

S2 (30:25):
Yeah, it was funny because I feel like everyone was,
I guess, waiting for the return of Jamie Lee Curtis,
that we all knew it was coming. And, you know,
she was such a standout in fishers. I thought this
episode was good too. Not quite as like I didn't
lose my mind over it like everyone else did. I
think Jamie Lee is so good at playing like manic
like her. She gets that look in her eyes. Basically,
her and Claire Danes have like, the best crazy eyes

(30:45):
in the business. But yeah, like, I thought the episode
was good and and, you know, there was some really
beautiful moments. But again, it's just like, it feels so
strange to be sitting here talking about the bear and being, like,
almost like having to cling on to these two, like
pretty good episodes as a way of like justifying the
third season.

S3 (31:02):
This is the funeral for the bear. Mhm.

S1 (31:05):
Um, one other bit that I just wanted to talk
about the two, two bits that are not part of
those two standalone episodes that I really enjoyed, that I
also think go to what the show could be at
its best if it just maybe, maybe part of the
issue is that Christopher Storer had two critically acclaimed seasons
of the show, and the network's like, you just do
whatever you want to do, and he indulged some of
his instincts when it needed to be pared back a bit.

(31:26):
The bits that I think it could focus on more
when the facts who I think have just been in
the show a bit too much. There's too many facts.
There's I don't know whether it's about them trying to
justify their comedy entry at the Emmys, which I think
is maybe part of it, because there's been this constant
conversation of how is the bear in the comedy category?
This is like category fraud. And now they're like, no, no, no,
it's funny. We've got these funny guys. Generally they they

(31:48):
didn't do much for me. But when they go to
visit Claire in the hospital, I thought that was kind
of interesting. And I think, what do you do with
a show that for three seasons has been set in
the same venue, with the same characters? To move things forward,
you kind of need to push things. You need to
like introduce new characters or new settings or new drama,
new tension. And this was an example of that. We're

(32:09):
in a different space. I didn't love Claire in the
second season, but I found her quite interesting. Now, two
characters who've never interacted with her on screen, their dynamic,
how they're talking about the relationship between her and kami.
It's kind of funny. It was kind of heartfelt. That
was really good. And then the other one like that
was when Richie talks to his ex-wife in the playground.
I wish more of the season had been Richie and

(32:32):
his freaking out about the wedding. Basically everything that he
did was really interesting. Gillian Jacobs is really good. That
was also really cool. It's new characters pushing old characters
in certain directions, making them grapple with change. Life circumstances.
Like that's what's so good about TV as a medium
is you create characters, you create settings, you think you

(32:54):
know them, and then you throw challenges their way and
you see how they fend them off. And when the
show did that a bit, it was great. Overwhelmingly, the
show just didn't do it. And it certainly didn't do
it with Carmy, who is dealing with the same challenge
he's dealt with his entire life.

S2 (33:06):
And to have the entire stakes of the season let
rest on. A review from the Chicago Tribune like that
just doesn't in this day and age. Like people just
don't care. Like it's hard to get people to be
as invested in, like the outcome of that as a
as it was, for instance, even in the last season
finale when it was like, you know, Carmy having a
breakdown and possibly blowing up his relationship as well as
his relationship with Richie, like, people can get around that.

(33:28):
Whereas like, you know, cutting on, you know, a Google
alert that the review from the Chicago Tribune has come
in like.

S1 (33:34):
Honestly, what's more stressful is your Google rating dropping from
like 4.7 to 4.4, because a bunch of racist people
give you reviews like that is more detrimental to your
financial bottom line than a review in a legacy newspaper.
No offense to our wonderful colleagues at Good Food, but
the economics of restaurants don't really live or die. On
one review from something like the Chicago Tribune, and as

(33:57):
if it wasn't already annoying enough to have that be
the main stakes of the season, you then have uncle
just be like, hey, by the way, this review is bad. Like,
I'm going to destroy your restaurant.

S7 (34:07):
Yeah, that was not necessary.

S3 (34:09):
I think that you're so right like that. The elements
where they push the plot forward with characters who weren't
kami was when it's at its best. And the other
good storyline was Sydney's wrestling about whether to leave the
restaurant and go and chase up other opportunities. And considering
what she's built at the bear and the fine dining
restaurant versus the potential she has and how to grow,

(34:31):
how to change, I thought that was also really interesting. Sadly,
it didn't get developed much. Hopefully it will move on,
but I'm really glad we've all come around to that.
The kami character, the emotionally repressed chef.

S1 (34:44):
Happy to lord this over.

S3 (34:46):
Like the emotionally repressed chef who can't express himself and
makes everyone else's life a living nightmare. Like, I think
we're done with it. I was we're I think society
has agreed that we're we're over.

S7 (34:57):
It's almost like.

S2 (34:57):
Kami brought it back. And then he killed it.

S3 (34:59):
Yeah, he killed it himself.

S7 (35:01):
Yeah.

S2 (35:01):
I mean, look, I haven't loved kami this season either. Obviously,
I still, you know, he's still my boy. But I
guess the question will be in, you know, do does
the same sense of reviews spell the end of the bear?
Because the reviews have generally been quite bad and, well,
you know, a single bad review may not impact the
restaurant in the show's universe. I don't know, I feel
like definitely the spate of bad reviews for season three

(35:25):
is going to temper expectations for season four. We assume
that's probably going to be the last season anyway because
they filmed them back to back, but it creates an
interesting environment for season four to enter into because the
show has been great. Season three, they cooked it and
now we're getting this last season. Like what? What happens now?

S3 (35:40):
It's almost kind of a shame that they've already filmed
the final season, because not that I think that it's
always helpful for creators to have real feedback on their
work as they're making it, but maybe in this case
it would have been.

S1 (35:53):
Yeah, I feel like Chris Torres online enough to have
been across what worked and didn't work from this season.
And I think you're spot on that it might have
been good to just like, have that input a little
bit and dial things in a different way. We don't
know though, right? Like we have talked about how it
felt like this season was stretching out. Not a lot
of plot very thinly. Maybe there's a lot in the
chamber for season four. Like I'm still excited for it.

(36:16):
When the show is good, it makes me feel really happy.
I have some expectations that we could get something better,
and I guess the advantage at this point is expectations
are low so we can only be like, happily surprised.
So it'll be fun to talk about it next year
when the show's out. But um, yeah, sad to say,
not one of our best viewing experiences this year. No.

S2 (36:38):
Do not let it rip. Just let it simmer a
bit more.

S1 (36:53):
All right, let's talk about music. We cover the music
industry a lot in our jobs here at the Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age. And over the last couple
of years there's been some pretty clear and I'd say
depressing patterns about what's going on live music right now.
If you're not one of the biggest artists in the world,
Taylor Swift, Fred again level. It's really tough. It's tough

(37:13):
to sell out shows. It's tough to get people to
pay money to come and see you. In Australia in particular,
Australian artists are really struggling to break through the traditional
model of how they could make a living and boost
their careers kind of doesn't work anymore. For most of
the last 50 years, certainly most of our lives artists
could make a buck playing in small, medium sized venues

(37:36):
across the country. They could tour big festivals up and
down the East coast. Triple J getting a song playlisted
on that would give you huge amounts of coverage and
attention and boost your sales. Triple J just does not
rate in the way that it used to. It can't
influence the tastes of Australians in the same way anymore.
The biggest drivers of musical discovery now things like Spotify, YouTube,

(37:58):
TikTok these are places where Australian artists are just getting
drowned out by the sheer volume of what is going
on internationally, and you can actually see this represented numerically
in the Aria charts. And Mel, you're a recent addition
to my Instagram follower list.

S7 (38:15):
Well, welcome to the madness.

S1 (38:17):
Yeah, welcome to the madness. Thomas, you've been there a
little bit longer. You might not have witnessed this, but, um,
every so often when, uh, the Aria Instagram page releases,
it's like top ten Australian singles or top ten singles.
I will share it because for the last like ten years,
there's largely been like one song in the top 50,
and that has been Vance Joy's Riptide.

S7 (38:38):
What a song though.

UU (38:39):
Are you running down to the Riptide? Taken away to
the dark side I want to be your left hand man.

S1 (38:48):
I love people who are close to me. You know
will tease me about my obsession with that song and
how it charts. For the record. I don't hate the song.
I don't hate Vance Joy at all. I think it
is remarkable in not a good way, that this one
song is the only commercially successful Australian song for the past,
like 11 years. But let's look at the Aria charts

(39:09):
this week, for example. So in the top 50 singles
on the Aria charts right now there are only three
Australian artists. It's actually like 1 or 2 more than
it's been for most of the year. Uh, The Kid
Laroi is there with a couple of tracks, his new
single and his, uh, previous one. There's a DJ. I
don't know if you guys are across this guy Cyril. Uh,
he kind of just reworks of songs he has remixed

(39:32):
stumbling in the Suzi Quatro and Chris Norman track. He's
up There. Good on DJ Cyril. And then there's Vance
Joy with Riptide, a song that was released 11 years ago.
That is what is charting in terms of Australian artists
right now. And when you look at specifically the top
20 Australian singles right now, it's kind of even more grim.

(39:54):
Four of them out of the top 20 are AC
DC songs released like at least 30 or 40 years ago.
There's another six songs that are at least 10 or
15 years old, so that's half of the top 20
being 15 years or older. There are two different versions
of gorgeous. Somebody I Used to Know like, this is
it's not good, right? And I guess the question is,

(40:16):
rant aside, Oz, like, what does this mean? And maybe
the way to start the conversation with you guys, I
ran into our colleague Marnie, who's on the sports team here,
and she was wearing a jumper. A client liaison jumper
looked really cool and I was like, oh, we're talking
about Australian music today. Like, are you listening to any
Australian acts that are new or interesting? And she's like, no,

(40:37):
I don't even know where I would discover Australian music anymore.
And all three of us work in this industry, so
we're sort of like a bit of a biased sample.
But putting aside getting media releases from labels or from
acts themselves, how were you guys, if at all, you
are discovering new Australian songs or music?

S3 (40:56):
I think that really hits the nail on the head.
Like that question summarizes what the issue is, which is
that Australian artists are finding it impossible to break through
and to reach new audiences. When you think about, like
the traditional methods of discovery, they're no longer there. Triple
J is struggling, we know, to retain a Gen Z audience.

(41:17):
We know that music street presses are not thriving in
the way that they used to. And we also know
that the charts and I don't think this is the
answer to the problem, but it is obviously part of
a bigger discussion. The charts aren't reflecting the Australian acts
that are coming through, because the way that they're the
data is collected is obviously privileging visibility, which is why

(41:40):
you get superstars monopolizing it and why you get old
favourites staying on the list. So I think that is
the issue is that people aren't finding new artists. The
venues are collapsing, as we know, during Covid more than
1000 closed down. So that would have been another traditional
method live music. And that's not there anymore. How do
I find I'm like, I guess I'm pretty lucky in

(42:01):
the job that I'm in. We often get approached by
record companies who are showing their new acts, and that
is actually how I've discovered a lot of Australian music,
and particularly that like peaches PRC. Every so often we
will do, uh, kind of young music to watch story.
So I guess that's really how I find it through
this like position, lucky position that I'm in. But if

(42:23):
you're not in industries where you're getting that kind of access,
I don't know where you're finding it.

S2 (42:28):
Yeah, it is really strange. Like, I, I feel like
I have had like, really strange experiences that speak to,
I guess, so many of the problems that we have, like, okay,
for instance, when you get into the car and you drive,
most people I would say have their automatically your Bluetooth
hooks up to your car and you listen to music
on streaming that you've already been listening to. Uh, but like,
you know, every so often, if you just like chuck

(42:49):
the radio on, I will regularly like if I have
triple J on, I hear a song I like, I'll
then like look up that artist on my Spotify. And
then eventually, once you've like, say you listen to their album,
then you get to like the artist radio. That to
me has been a path to find new stuff, but
that's such a convoluted way of having to, like, stumble
onto new Australian artists. So I remember like for ages
when I first got into Bad dreams, then through the

(43:10):
bad dreams like Artist Radio, I found all these other
Australian bands that you know, are similar ish and that
opens up. But like that is a very that's a
lot of steps to get to new music.

S1 (43:18):
Yeah, totally. And Spotify is a really interesting one. I
was trying to see if there are any new music
Australian Spotify playlist, and there were some that you think
might be new Australian songs, and they're not like Hot
Hits Australia. That's a playlist. What if I curate? It's
not Australian music, it's just like big international tracks that
are curated for Australian listeners. That's a bit confusing. I

(43:40):
like drill music, as you guys know, and so Spotify
served me an Aussie drill playlist and I thought, well,
this might be some new drill tracks. No, it's like
in the beginning by one for if you know, you
know by hooligan houses are like five six year old songs.
Cosby Sweater by the Hilltop Hoods, which is absolutely not
a drill song. It's on that playlist. And I think

(44:00):
if it wasn't for the work that I do or
the fact that I have a lot of friends and
kind of former colleagues who work in the music industry
or are artists, I.

S7 (44:09):
Would.

S1 (44:09):
Generally really struggle. And if that's how I feel, I
don't blame normal people for not understanding what is happening
in the Australian music landscape right now. And I think
it's so it's so interesting because we talked about triple J,
we talk about triple J a couple of times that
was created to basically solve the same problem that we're
having now. There wasn't an Australian radio station that played

(44:32):
Australian music to younger people, and there was concerns that
Australian artists and Australian audiences were going to miss out
on a generation of sounds, ideas, storytelling. So the government
needed to create something to nurture it, because ultimately, I
think there's a general belief that it's important to have
a creative and artistic community in Australia, and it's important

(44:54):
for artists to be able to tell Australian stories musically
and otherwise. So the government did it. Now the idea
of like the government creating its own streaming platform, or
even trying to regulate streaming platforms to encourage Australian music
feels pretty far fetched. Like they can't even really do
it right with meta to keep journalists employed. We've talked

(45:15):
about streaming quotas on things like Netflix that was supposed
to happen this year. It looks like from people I
speak to in the industry, that might not happen before
the next federal election. I can't really get a handle
on whether people think or realize that this is a
significant issue. I'm interested to get your guys vibes on that.
Like you're talking about the venue shutting down Mel. I
think there's a bit of conversation about that. There's a

(45:36):
bit of conversation about the issues in festival land, like
there are government inquiries looking at live music. I don't
know if enough people are really across the fact that
just the bare bones nature of I'm an artist trying
to make a song and get that song played and
get people to listen to it, which is the very
base level of how this industry is supposed to work,
is kind of fundamentally broken. Do people know that?

S2 (45:59):
I mean, I would say from the, you know, sample
size of the people I know, and we've obviously discussed
that they're not exactly the greatest people sometimes. But like
I would say that they they not only do they
not know, but like perhaps they don't care, which is
like depressing and perhaps an indictment on like, I don't
know where people in this particular, you know, day and

(46:20):
age in the moment we exist in right now value,
you know, the importance of new music. But like I
just don't think they do like, I like it's it's
sad to say, but I definitely feel like even my,
my friends who aren't really into like, you know, entertainment
and music and the arts and stuff, like in terms
of where new music ranks in their list of priorities,
like they'll be way more across, like what's going on
in film and TV and that landscape, as opposed to

(46:43):
like new music. I don't know, I feel like as
you get older, unfortunately, people get rusted on to what
they know. And the passion for discovering new music especially,
is something that like dulls. And unless you happen to
be in the industry, which we all are, people don't
really go seeking it out in the way that they go.
Seeking out the new TV series, the new film, because
that stuff gets fed to us more and more. And so,
I don't know, it's like on so many different fronts,

(47:05):
I think, you know, to be a new group or
a new artist, you're facing like a lot of different battles.

S3 (47:09):
Yeah. And I also don't know if people fully realize
the necessity of protecting Australian culture and why it's important
to support Australian new artists in particular, and not just
in music. Obviously, this applies to all different fields, but
I think that is a historic thing that goes well.
Back to like the cultural cringe and how we've consistently

(47:31):
devalued the role of the arts. And like, I don't know, even,
you know, Stem is important, but I think Stem, sport,
all these other things are historically valued over the role
that storytellers have. Um, and I think that it's because
it's hard to measure. Right. Like, although sometimes you can
measure it when you have certain film franchises or, you know,

(47:53):
we talk about Bluey a bit, but I think because
it's hard to measure, these new artists can miss out.
But what they're bringing is not necessarily financial, but it's
a way of, you know, reflecting our culture back to ourselves,
which I think people, until it's gone, you don't really
realize what you're what you're losing.

S1 (48:09):
Yeah. And I think in that vein, one thing I
wanted to mention is the closure after 25 years of
the Sydney independent record label Elefant Traks, who a big
part of the independent music scene for decades, particularly hip
hop acts like The Herd, Urthboy, Hermitude, L-fresh The Lion,
Horrorshow like these are independent acts nurtured by a music
label that could make eke out a living, we should

(48:32):
say never super financially lucrative. And those are artists that
represented very specific parts of Australia, whether it's like indigenous
acts like The Last Connection, whether it's DJs from the
Blue Mountains like Hermitude, whether it's kids from the inner West,
whether it's L-fresh from Western Sydney, they told stories about
the places and communities they came from, and they could

(48:52):
only exist because of a musical infrastructure and a label
that existed to support them. With that label closing and
basically no one creating new labels because it doesn't make
any sense. As we've been talking about, there's literally like
stories and genres and kinds of music that will just
not really hit. And maybe the other thing to say

(49:12):
is none of this is a knock on artists or
the people trying to promote them. I'm not mad at
or saying there aren't good Australian artists. I'm going to
name some good Australian artists I think people should check
out in a minute. It's more the structure around how
all this stuff works is making it very hard for
them to succeed. I do think, though, in some major

(49:33):
labels this is a really interesting thing. So a few
people have broken down their numbers for me over the
past couple of weeks, and they've I've been asking around
different artists and different industry people. Where do you think
some of these key issues lie and who's responsible? They
made the point that in the olden days, like say, ten,
15 years ago, about 90% of the revenue from major
labels came from selling new music because people had to

(49:54):
buy albums. Right. Once you own the Fleetwood Mac Best
of album, you don't need to buy it again. You
just play it all the time. So for labels to
make money, they have to find and break and nurture
new acts to convince you to buy new records. With
the advent of streaming, the numbers have totally flipped. About 90%
of the money comes from streaming back catalogue stuff. So
you do listen to Fleetwood Mac on Spotify rather than

(50:17):
playing the album now, and every time you do that
generates money for the label and for the band. So
major labels don't have the same incentive they used to
to find and nurture and help break Australian artists. There
are big labels in this country who have cut back
their A&R departments, and they're the people who are in
charge of finding and nurturing acts because it's way less

(50:37):
risky and more economically safe to spend $1 million saying,
go and listen to Fleetwood Mac records than it is
to say, hey, this new artist Thomas Mitchell's got a
great album, give it a red hot go. And so
there is that side of it as well, and I
don't yeah, I don't know what the fix is. I
don't run these labels, but there's a lot of factors
that are all aligning to make the Australian music landscape

(51:01):
feel pretty grim at the.

S7 (51:02):
Moment Then I.

S2 (51:03):
Mean, a lot of buzz around that Thomas Mitchell guy,
by the way, you guys should check him out. I
think that's what's so interesting though, because like obviously we're
seeing this like clogging of the charts with old artists like,
you know, as it was, Harry styles has been on
there basically since it dropped Ed Sheeran. Like all these
people that we just like, you know, obviously Taylor and
I saw that in, in the UK in the Official
Charts Company, they changed their rules a couple of years

(51:24):
ago to limit the amount of songs that one artist
can have on the chart. So yeah, interesting. One artist
can only have a limit of three songs in the
UK chart at any given time. So, you know, that
was like actually created in response to Ed Sheeran's, um, whatever,
whichever math symbol album he released that was really good.
But like so so that means that, I guess, could
that be an incentive to a label? Because, you know,

(51:44):
obviously charting still means a lot. It makes you eligible
for a bunch of awards and labels, still want the
prestige and recognition that comes with charting. So if we
do institute rules like that here, so you can only have,
you know, you know, three songs from an artist or
you could have like there's been suggestions of doing like
Time limits. So a song can only chart for this
long or it has to be within this amount of
time of release. And then I guess you create a

(52:06):
bit more of a framework around what is allowed to chart.
So then because obviously, as you said, the nature of
streaming is that people just go and listen to whatever
they want to listen to, and it's often just their
favourite songs from 15 years ago. And that way you
can kind of like maybe like massage the charts back
into a more contemporary reflection of like what is going
on and what is actually being listened to as opposed
to people's favorite shit.

S3 (52:26):
But I don't know if I do think that that like,
I think it's interesting to talk about the charts. Um,
and I think the Arias have changed their charts and
how they collect their data over the years. Um, but
I do think that would be a bit that's a
bit of a distraction from the issue. Like, I don't
know if you want to massage the data to necessarily
tell a kind of story to, to Australian artists like

(52:46):
you may as well just address the issue of why
Australian artists are struggling so much rather than be like, well,
here's the data all polished up. I mean, we do
it for your story. Sometimes we we twist the data
to look good for you and it doesn't address the issue. Right. Like,
you know what I mean? Like it's a distraction in
a way.

S2 (53:02):
But I think you could address all problems at the
same time. Do you know what I mean? Like, rather than. Yeah,
just like papering over the cracks of the Da to
make it paint a pretty picture that could be part
of a larger solution.

S1 (53:12):
Yeah. Like what merit is there in a chart that
tells you that AC, DC have four songs in the
top 20 right now? That to me is an issue.
It's like maybe I think all the ideas you suggested, Thomas,
make sense. Maybe there's another one there, which is like,
just have a chart that is for like music that's
been released in the past 12 months. So we know
what Australian acts that are making new music, how are

(53:32):
they doing? What are people listening to? What is hitting
doesn't solve all the problems. I completely agree with you, Mel,
but if like a young Australian act, someone is going
to mention Nick Ward has a really successful song because
he's been playlisted by triple J, he's been announced as
Troye Sivan's support act for the tour later this year.
There's maybe a little bit of buzz around him if
he can get the chance to track in a chart

(53:54):
that isn't crowded out by AC, DC and a 30
year old gorgeous song or 20 year old gorgeous song, like,
maybe that could put him on the radar a little
bit so these things could potentially work in tandem.

S2 (54:05):
But I feel like the other thing we probably need
to mention is, well, two things. Obviously, I think in
response to all of this, like last year, Tony Burke
announced the creation of Music Australia, which is basically a
body that is dedicated to, I think one of their
biggest priorities is addressing discoverability, because that's what really is
so hard right now. But I suppose we probably have
to discuss like TikTok, because that is where, you know,
the classic triple J demo exists now is on TikTok.

(54:28):
And obviously there's been so many different issues in terms
of like licensing of songs and ways to get discovered
and the fact that TikTok is a platform that basically
is exists and will only, you know, spotlight artists if
their music goes viral. But like basically, I guess if
I was an Australian musician, like wanting to break out,
I'd be like, well, look, all of these 16 to

(54:48):
30 year olds really are like existing on TikTok or
listening to stuff or discovering stuff on TikTok, like, how
do I infiltrate this platform that is kind of like
engineered to be geared against me anyway, but like what?
What happens there like that? That is a big problem
for Australian artists.

S3 (55:02):
Well, I think it's a problem if they feel like
they have to infiltrate that, because TikTok obviously likes a
very certain kind of music. I mean, Gracie Abrams is
maybe the epitome of that likes a very certain kind
of song. Um, and that's dominating. So I don't think
you want to get the Australian artists to create the
song that TikTok is loving, because then you will just
have the same song created over and over again. I

(55:23):
actually think the bigger issue really is like, artists don't
make a lot of money out of record sales or streams,
like they make their money out of touring. And that,
I think, is the real crux of the issue in
Australia is that they don't have anywhere to play anymore.

S1 (55:37):
Totally, totally and harder for them to tour internationally with,
you know, exchange rates, cost of living, visa fees increasing
for artists in the States. It's a story that Meg,
our colleague, covered a couple of weeks ago, just on
the streaming side of things. I mean, there this is
where there have been conversations for the government to step
in and actually and it's a boring word to use,
but like regulate, like if they're going to talk about

(55:59):
making sure that Netflix prioritizes Australian content, why can't there
be discussion around, you know, when Spotify makes its playlist?
So when Spotify plays radio, you know, it's like, you
like this artist, listen to that artist. Every third song
has to be an Australian song. Like, why not just
say you operate in our country, you make money from Australians,
and part of the quid pro quo of that is

(56:20):
you have to ensure that Australian acts can't just be
drowned out by Sabrina Carpenter again and again, or Gracie
Abrams on TikTok. Like, I think that is something that
could be done. I hope Music Australia is doing it.
I mean, they're smart people probably think about this stuff
more than us. I'm kind of surprised that no one
in the government just stood up and said, hey, yeah,
there's a real issue here with music in Australia. Every

(56:41):
artist is talking about it. Every label is talking about it,
the media is talking about it. We're going to look
at what we can do. It sort of just seems like, oh, well,
maybe get to it once we figure out what to
do with Netflix, which has been going on for years
and years. So I feel a little bit pessimistic. But
hopefully this conversation encourages people to think about it. Maybe
there are some influential people listening to this and starting
those convos. If music companies in Australia, if artists started

(57:05):
demanding the government do something to enforce Australian music, be
played on things like TikTok and Spotify, I think that
could go a long way. Along with the touring stuff
that you mentioned, Mel.

S3 (57:15):
I'm kind of skeptical that we'll see the government try
to enforce quotas on TikTok. Um, I agree, I'm just
chucking out some.

S7 (57:22):
Ideas like be positive.

S3 (57:23):
We've seen how they've gone with meta. Um, I actually
think the more maybe effective model to steal from is
what they've done with the film industry, which are like
kind of tax offsets and rebates. I wonder if that's
more of a way to incentivize these companies to, to
promote Australian musicians, because I.

S7 (57:41):
Just don't.

S3 (57:42):
Want to sound like the AFR, but I don't know
if the regulation of the big companies is going to
work like Sony. I love Sony, but like, they're not,
you know, they they have to make a profit like
they're not.

S7 (57:52):
Your lunch coming up.

S3 (57:53):
I don't have faith in their kind of their altruism.

S1 (57:56):
I feel like regardless of which path anyone takes, we
have just come up with like seven great ideas to help,
and I hope someone listening to this takes them on.
I said that I wanted to mention a couple of
recent Australian songs, because I don't want to just talk
about the issues here and then my My Impress Your
Friends is not an Australian artist, so I thought I
should mention Australian acts before people make fun of me.

(58:17):
I mentioned Nick Ward before up and coming pop guy
on the Troy Tour. His most recent single, Shooting Star
is really, really fun. If you want a pop kind
of a vibe. Amyl and the sniffers, they don't need
my help. They're a big and successful band. I've always
loved them. Their most recent single, You Should Not Be
Doing That is really good. Like, I think this is
one of the best Australian songs in the last little while.

(58:39):
It's really, really fun and it's so exciting to see
them kill it overseas. And the final one northeast Party House,
more electro sort of vibe. Their latest album is awesome,
but the lead single off it, enhancer, is also really fun.
So there's a bit of a rock, pop and dance recommendations.
So there you go. I'm doing my bit to support
Australian music. Let's move on to our final and most

(59:08):
beloved segment, Impress Your Friends, where we share something that
we watched, listened to, read, or consumed last week in culture. Uh, Mel?
I'm up.

S3 (59:18):
Well, learning new Australian writers. My recommendation this week is, um, kin.
Mine's new memoir, Fragile Creatures. It's a really the word
that comes to mind is graceful, like it's a very
graceful book. It's about his experience growing up in Perth.
His mum was a migrant from England, his dad was

(59:39):
a Burmese refugee. And it starts, it looks at the
racism he endured in Perth growing up from that background,
and it's really quite horrific and at times hard to watch.
But then it moves into this experience he has going overseas,
and his former partner accuses him of stalking her. So
he has to face a court case overseas. And while

(01:00:00):
that's going on, his sister has been facing this illness,
which leaves her in bed for months and months and months,
and she's getting worse. And it's an illness that, you know,
the diagnosis is contentious, so there's all these different elements
of it. But he brings it together so nicely and
it's really honest and insightful, and it's a look at
masculinity and racism and also the idea about how the

(01:00:23):
body and mind works together. It's just a very, uh,
it's a great read. I would recommend it. And I'm
it's a quiet book. It's from a smaller publisher, Black Inc.. Uh,
Ken is a writer, but I don't think has is,
you know, particularly well known. So I hope it does
kind of make a mark because it does deserve to
be read.

S1 (01:00:40):
Good on you supporting Australian artists, Mel.

S7 (01:00:43):
Great try.

S1 (01:00:44):
Great stuff. Um.

S2 (01:00:45):
Thomas Vine is a TV show on a little known streamer,
Aussie streamer named Apple. This. This is very good, though. Um,
you know, we've been in a bit of a funny
time for, for new TV shows, and obviously the bear
is pointing us all, but This is Sunny, starring Rashida Jones,
who I think we all know and love. Um, I
think she's great. Uh, and so basically, this is adapted
from Colin O'Sullivan's novel. Uh, but basically she plays an

(01:01:08):
American woman living in Japan with her Japanese husband. And
one day, her husband and son disappear in a plane crash. Uh,
it all feels very mysterious. A bit losti almost. Um,
but as far as we know, her husband has passed away. Uh, she,
you know, in this kind of strange, you know, post death.

S7 (01:01:24):
Grief.

S2 (01:01:25):
That has gripped her, she then, like, gets a knock
at the door one day and she meets Sonny, a
robot that her husband, who was far as she knew,
worked for a refrigeration company has created and tailored to
her exact sensibilities. He has a full history of her life,
and he basically is the ultimate companion. And at first,
she doesn't really know what to make of it. And
then as the show kind of goes along, it becomes,

(01:01:47):
you know, this comfort, but it also becomes this increasingly
kind of like dark force in her life. And the
show is really funny. Rashida Jones is so good at
toeing the line between like, drama and then like comedy,
and also just there's this constant sense of foreboding. The
show does become like a kind of comment on, you know,
where the future is headed. And I and all of
those things we love to delve into. But yeah, if

(01:02:07):
you're if you're looking for a kind of an off
beat show that is a bit different to everything else
out there right now, um, Sunny on Apple is definitely
worth a watch.

S7 (01:02:14):
Uh, Apple.

S1 (01:02:14):
TV hitting it out of the park lately.

S7 (01:02:16):
I think I'd love a robot friend.

S2 (01:02:18):
Yeah, you probably would.

S7 (01:02:19):
Yeah.

S1 (01:02:20):
Avoid the obvious Thomas joke.

S3 (01:02:22):
Yeah. Set you up.

S7 (01:02:23):
There.

S1 (01:02:24):
Uh, my my recommendation is my guy, Zack Bryant. Back.
Surprise album out of nowhere. The great American bar scene.
I will say I really liked this album. So, Zack Bryant,
for people who are not familiar with my adoration of
country artist in America, really, really good. Had that really

(01:02:44):
big hit. I remember everything with Kacey Musgraves, I think,
towards the end of last year, but has released a
couple of awesome albums. His self-titled is probably my favorite. Uh,
I will say about this album, it's not like a
radical reinvention of Zach. It's very much the same stuff
that we've had from him in a while, but it's
pretty good. There's a Bruce Springsteen collaboration on there, which
is really, really nice. Um, my two favorite tracks, if

(01:03:06):
you're a bit daunted by the size and the length
of the album, and you want to just sort of
what are the good bits? Uh, 28 and Oak Island.
Two real standout fun, kind of more poppy, accessible bits,
but just really nice to have another full length Zach
Bryant album. Yes, it's my recommendation.

S2 (01:03:24):
I just wanted to offer some feedback on your recommendation.

S1 (01:03:27):
Feel free.

S2 (01:03:27):
Firstly, it fucking features John Mayer and you didn't.

S7 (01:03:31):
Sorry, you didn't even mention it.

S1 (01:03:34):
Which is I'm trying to pretend that one doesn't exist.

S2 (01:03:36):
I actually quite like that song. The album is great.
I listened to it on the way to work this morning.
I've been so into it when when he just, like,
comes out with Wet Hot American.

S7 (01:03:45):
Best kind of.

S2 (01:03:46):
Best lyrics since I was.

S7 (01:03:48):
I've never more.

S1 (01:03:48):
Wanted to just be a guy who drives a truck.
And the main thing I'm worried about is like, what
I'm bringing to the cookout on Friday night. And that
is the nostalgia that he is like conjuring up. And
I'm like, man, yeah, the world used to be a
more simple place. You don't have to worry about politics
or the state of the world, just your family. You know,
your job, your gun, your truck. I mean, I'm.

S7 (01:04:09):
Making it sound like a conservative album. It's not.

S3 (01:04:11):
You're fetishizing kind of working class culture here.

S1 (01:04:15):
I, I.

S7 (01:04:16):
I.

S1 (01:04:16):
Mean, that's country music, right? Like, that's that's the vibes.
It's simple and straightforward and yeah, he's you know, he's
an interesting songwriter as well. I don't mean to write
him off as just like a country hick or whatever, but, um,
there's something about the detachment from a lot of the
chaos and drama in the world that we kind of
cover and talk about all the time that I find
really appealing about the album. So it's good. It's a
great listen.

S3 (01:04:36):
I'm glad it came out in time for your birthday, too.

S1 (01:04:38):
Thanks, Mel. Thank you. Um, that's it from us guys.
Great conversations. Always take care. See you next week.

S7 (01:04:44):
Perfect. We've got to go.

S3 (01:04:45):
Out with Riptide shortly.

S7 (01:04:46):
I was scared of dentists, and.

S10 (01:04:50):
I was scared of dentists and the dark. I was
scared of pretty girls and starting conversations.

UU (01:04:59):
All my friends are turning green.

S1 (01:05:08):
This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app.
Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!