Who really won the Kendrick-Drake feud? Plus, The Fall Guy debate

Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:07):
Hey, I'm Osman Faruqi and this is the drop a
culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
where we dive into the latest in the world of
pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and
Mel Schembri. Tough week for you guys, Thomas. Your boy
Drake took a pretty big L. Mel, your girl Dua
Lipa released a deeply mid album. You guys holding up

(00:30):
all right?

S2 (00:31):
Yeah. Holding up okay. I mean, I think Dua's probably
come off a little better than Drake, but I'm sure
we'll get into that in a bit.

S3 (00:38):
Yeah, I've always been excited to go on the record
defending possible predators. So yeah, it's just another week in
my life.

S1 (00:47):
Uh, we'll be talking a lot more, perhaps unsurprisingly, about
the feud between Kendrick Lamar and Drake, its origins, how
it's played out and what kinds of consequences it could
have for the pair, the wider rap scene and the
music industry more broadly. We're also going to be talking
about the Dua album and some other big pop releases
that we're into at the moment, and finally, we'll be

(01:09):
discussing The Fall Guy, the Australian shot action comedy starring
Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt. But first, this week it
was the first Tuesday in May, which means the Met
Gala was on.

S4 (01:23):
It's fashion's biggest night.

S5 (01:27):
Sydney the Met Gala is the party of the year.

S4 (01:31):
The Met Gala, the annual celeb studded fundraiser held to
benefit New York City's Metropolitan Museum of Art.

S6 (01:38):
Finally I'm here.

S1 (01:39):
I was moving house on Tuesday, so I did not
pay very close attention to this one. Though I did
get the sense from social media that it seems to
be taking up more and more attention every year. It's
kind of gone from a fashion focused fundraiser thing to
just being like a key part of the pop cultural
calendar every year. Does that ring true to you guys?

(02:00):
What kind of stood out from this year's Met Gala?

S2 (02:03):
Yeah, I reckon that's totally true. And I think it
makes sense because the Met Gala feels so right for
our online generation. It's all spectacle and no substance. It's
all about conscious illusion and artifice. And it's also unlike
other big events, red carpet events. It's just purely based
on celebrity. You have to get the invite from Anna Wintour.
You can be anyone. You don't necessarily have to be

(02:23):
there because you know, you've been nominated for a film.
So you also get quite a broad and interesting sweep
of people, which sets it up for real kind of
viral moments that are perfect for the internet. What stood
out from this one? I actually think maybe it was
the kind of lack of those big moments, those big
talking points, like when I think back to some of
the outfits in the past, Jared Leto in that cat,

(02:43):
Doja Cat as a cat, Lil NAS X room when
he wore that all silver outfit, Kim K had that
big stocking thing. There's been some really big moments, and
I don't really think there were any huge talking points
from this Met Gala. In a way, people seem to
play it really safe. And I also think the other
thing that stood out was the theme. Clearly confused a
lot of people. There was not like a lot of
cohesion in what people were wearing. And I think Anna

(03:05):
Wintour has actually apologized. She kind of potentially saw this
coming because she apologized in advance that maybe the theme
had been a bit confusing. Well, the thing was like.

S1 (03:12):
Garden of something, but people just took the garden bit
more literally.

S7 (03:16):
Yeah, well, the theme was Sleeping.

S2 (03:18):
Beauty's Reawakening fashion, but then the dress code was the
Garden of Time. Um, which are.

S1 (03:24):
The Garden of Time?

S2 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, um, Anna Wintour obviously now realizes
was too complex for people. Um, so I think it
did come through on the carpet a lot, like it
was not really clear what people were dressing up. And
everyone had quite a different take on the theme.

S3 (03:39):
Yeah, I just saw lots of photos of like, it
was like Hugh Jackman in a tux, Chris Hemsworth in
a tux. Like the Australian guys just doing what Australian
guys do and disappointing everybody. But like, I guess Zendaya
was the big one that everyone was talking about. I
guess generally though, it felt like this was set up
to be a big kind of flashpoint because, I mean,
it's hard to avoid the optics of something like that, uh,

(04:01):
difficult right now with everything that's going on in the world.
People love to kind of have that conversation around big
celebrity events when there are these huge, you know, global
events also happening at the same time, and especially with
something like the Met Gala that isn't, you know, like
an award ceremony or at least something broader. People are
always going to be like, well, do we need to
be doing this right now while you know everything that's
going on in the Middle East?

S1 (04:21):
Yeah, when we talk, we talk about the Met Gala,
but really the way that we consume it publicly is
the celebrities outside the Met Gala being photographed as they enter.
We don't really get a lot from what goes on inside.
I saw someone on social media being like, so what?
What happens in the Met Gala? And it's just what.

S3 (04:38):
Does happen in the it's.

S1 (04:39):
Like a fundraising dinner. I think there were some speeches
and people sort of eat food and wander around. They
take selfies. There's occasionally like videos that emerge of Jennifer
Lopez running into other celebrities in the bathroom. There's an
episode of Dave, the Show that you still refuse to watch, Thomas,
which is set inside the Met Gala in an episode.
That's the closest I've come to understanding what the Met
Gala is like inside.

S2 (04:59):
Yeah, an ocean's. There's an ocean set in in the
Met Gala as well. That's entirely what I'm basing it on. Oh, yeah,
that's right.

S1 (05:06):
Oh, the Ocean's eight. Um, yeah. They're not very good.
Ocean's not because of, you know, the fact that they're
gender flipped. It just wasn't that good. Of course not
as a movie. Yeah. To your point, Thomas, about the
incongruous nature of it this year, Marina Hyde, who I
normally really enjoy reading, she's a Guardian UK columnist, had
a piece this week arguing that during times when the
news is very heavy and grim, an event like the

(05:28):
Met Gala serves as a distraction to it. Just something
we can sort of zone out and watch these people
wear their their outfits. But I mean, I think there's
an argument that in some instances, like the opposite can
also be true. It felt, particularly this year, I think,
to do with the timing of it. Just very odd
where every second post was a celebrity being photographed, and

(05:50):
then the posts after that were like clips or news
stories of Israel's invasion of Gaza. The Met Gala is
deeply a political and like always has been, and it's
another contrast to events like the Oscars. It's not just
about it not being an awards ceremony, but you do see,
even if most celebrities aren't embracing a political message we

(06:10):
have seen in this awards in the last kind of
12 months of awards season, at least, people wearing pins
making speeches. None of that happens at the Met Gala.
Anna Wintour keeps a pretty tight leash on that. There
was this. Quote from Suzanne Collins that I saw doing
the rounds yesterday. She's the author of The Hunger Games,
and she said that she was inspired to write that

(06:31):
series because in the early 2000, she was watching TV
and it was reality TV being interspersed with clips of
the invasion of Iraq and sort of that, that I think, quote,
has been finding a lot of resonance this week because
people are saying, well, the Met Gala and the invasion
of Rafah happening at the exact same time. It's sort
of hard to to disconnect those two things. It's a

(06:53):
big question, but I mean, is this is this escapism
that we all need? Is it a distraction? How do
you think people should be feeling about this?

S3 (07:01):
Yeah. Like I think I can kind of see both
sides because, I mean, it's easy to say something like
the Met Gala is completely unnecessary and like in bad
taste right now. But then it becomes, for me a
question of like, well, where do you draw the line?
Like we're about to spend however long discussing Drake and
Kendrick arguing over the internet, and you could so easily
make the same argument that, like, that's so ridiculous that
you would even give that air time right now with

(07:23):
everything that's going on. And like, I think it does
become this thing where at some point I guess you
have to decide that you can. I don't know that
these two things can coexist and and it's okay to
talk about both or have both, like it's really tricky
because you don't want to be seen to be like, oh, well,
I'm just putting that out of sight and, you know, whatever. Like,
unfortunately it's not impacting me. So I can just enjoy

(07:44):
the Met Gala. But I do think sometimes there is this,
like inclination to just then call everything shallow and all
we can all be talking about and focusing on 24
over seven is like, what's going on in the Middle East?
And yeah, I think it creates this like lose lose
situation a little bit.

S2 (07:59):
Yeah. I think it's funny that the, the dress code,
The Garden of Time is based on the name of
a short story by J.G. Ballard, who wrote the story
in 1962. Okay, this is a bit fun fact from
your resident reader, but it is kind of funny. The
short story is about this kind of rich couple who
live in an estate where the air is bright and
the the weather is warm. They live in this beautiful

(08:19):
kind of fantasy land. And then one day they look
out onto the dry and barren plains and they see,
like people labored with heavy loads kind of around their neck,
and the kind of rabble sets up on the horizon,
encroaching on their fantasy land. And I mean, that's where
the rabble of the met is. The met is this
garden of illusion and artifice that can't last. But like

(08:41):
this couple that have to kind of keep picking flowers,
you know, it's not going to last. And I mean,
I don't think the met is trying to be self-referential,
but that kind of is it. We're on the horizon,
kind of enjoying the beauty of this estate even as
we know it's fake.

S1 (08:56):
Yeah, it's a kind of perfect accidental metaphor. Yeah. Look,
I don't expect anything dramatic or political from the Mecca.
I think it does what it does, and that's what
it's always done. And that's what it always will do.
I think there's probably just certain times in which the
ability for some of the wealthiest people on the planet
to insulate themselves and pretend nothing else is going on

(09:17):
can sometimes feel like a little bit too absurd. I
think it's a fair point about the rap stuff. Thomas.
I think we'll mention a bit about some of the
criticisms of Drake and Kendrick just talking about themselves when
there's a lot else going on. One of the things
that I just found bewildering, like the the appearance of
Anthony Pratt, the Australian cardboard billionaire dressed in sort of

(09:39):
a pink Willy Wonka suit. And I know that this
is a fundraiser, and I know that all sorts of
just like rich people go to it, but maybe it's
because he's Australian. It's like cultural cringe or something. But
I'm like, this feels like less exciting than it's felt
before seeing him there.

S2 (09:54):
Yeah. And you know how like, color analysis is like
having a real moment at the moment and everyone's getting
it done and getting AI to do it. When I
saw him in that pink suit and his face just
looked so pink, I was like, that is a case
for why color analysis matters. But I also the other Aussie,
you mentioned it earlier, Chris Hemsworth, very bland. Wasn't it?
Just like a classic three piece suit? Like just beige?

(10:14):
So yeah, I don't know if the Australians had a
great showing at the met this year.

S3 (10:18):
Except for Kylie. Obviously.

S1 (10:19):
I didn't see Kylie's outfit. She looked pretty.

S2 (10:21):
Good. Troye Sivan as well. Our our pop princesses did great.

S1 (10:25):
Okay, so from pop princesses to two people who had
nothing to do with the Met Gala at all, it's
time to talk about the biggest cultural moment of the week,
and arguably even the last few years. The incredibly personal,
vicious and deeply fascinating feud between two of the biggest
rappers the past decade, Drake and Kendrick Lamar. I guess

(10:47):
the freshest development in this saga is the news that
one of Drake's security guards was shot inside his house
in Toronto on Wednesday morning. The assailant escaped. We have
no further details about the shooting or the background or
motivations of the shooter, but I mean, it is pretty
wild timing considering everything going on before that incident. It's

(11:07):
worth laying out, I guess. Basically where we were at
after spending a couple of weeks releasing tracks that were
getting increasingly more personal, aimed at each other, allegations of
domestic abuse, sex trafficking, and underage grooming. Kendrick. Was widely
considered to have pretty thoroughly demolished Drake's reputation and outranked him.

(11:28):
Kind of culminated in the most recent track that's been released,
a track from Drake five minutes long, where he basically
spent most of it denying being a pedophile. It's kind
of been interpreted as a quiet, strategic retreat from this
whole episode. This was melanomas, particularly over the weekend when
we had multiple tracks being dropped every day. I think,

(11:52):
safe to say, one of the biggest moments in in
pop culture in recent times, it felt like everyone had
sort of stopped to plug in and see what was
going on. Sure, you were getting text messages either from
people being like, have you seen it? Or friends asking
you to explain what was going on felt particularly interesting.
In the era of media fragmentation, where we don't tend
to all like, gather on to one big thing. It

(12:14):
definitely felt like the biggest rap beef in years, potentially
bigger than the infamous feud between Jay-Z NAS in the
early 2000. There's going to be ramifications for both of
these guys and the direction of hip hop. There's plenty
to discuss, but maybe we'll start with with kind of
where this starts. And maybe before we do that, it
could be interesting to discuss the respective positions of each

(12:35):
of these rappers before they got into this feud. Thomas,
I'm wondering if you can give us a kind of
TLDR on kind of Drake as a rapper. Where does
he sit and how does that compare to to Kendrick's
profile and position in the hip hop world?

S3 (12:47):
Yeah for sure Mel. So TLDR is too long. Don't worry.

S2 (12:51):
I know nothing's ever too long for me to read.

S3 (12:53):
Um, so basically I guess like the scene is that
you've got Drake, arguably the biggest kind of name in
rap pop. He he's a hip hop guy, but really
he's seen as the pop star of rap. Um, obviously,
you know, enormously successful. Signed a $400 million complete global
publishing deal with universal a few years ago, one of

(13:14):
the biggest deals of all time called the LeBron deal
of music. Um, you know, obviously we all know Drake songs.
He feels clubs, he tops the Billboard 100 all the time.
He wins lots of Grammys. He is kind of like
the palatable hip hop star, but really, he's a pop star.
Then you have Kendrick Lamar seen as many as, I guess,
like the icon of pure hip hop, he is kind

(13:37):
of the incumbent to Tupac Shakur. He's seen by purists
as the true face of hip hop. Um, he's from
Compton in Los Angeles, often seen as the spiritual heartland
of hip hop. And, you know, he releases albums that are,
you know, really kind of viewed in a more critical
lens than anything Drake ever does. He's won a Pulitzer Prize, Mel,
which is like a really important prize, basically. And yeah,
so that kind of sets the scene in, in what

(14:00):
I mean, does even though the feud has gone beyond ridiculous,
it set the scene for a really perfect match up
because it was like kind of like this good versus evil.
You know, the good guy being Kendrick, who represents the
pure art of hip hop, and then Drake being the
sellout who represents, I guess, the problems of modern hip
hop according to a lot of fans. So, yeah, that
was kind of the state of things. But yeah, very

(14:22):
much it was these two guys who represented two different
schools of thought of where hip hop is at right now.

S1 (14:27):
And I think fair to say, Thomas, like you and
I have listened to probably every record that either Drake
or Kendrick have made and have a lot of time
and respect for what they do.

S3 (14:38):
Yeah for sure. Like, I love both guys. I get
a lot of enjoyment out of both of their work, um,
for different, very different reasons. And, and that's why I
think it was such a curious thing at the start
to see these two guys go at it, who, you know,
because in the early 20 tens, they were, you know,
very friendly and they appeared on each other's tracks. Um,
Poetic Justice, the Kendrick song and Kendrick also appeared on
Drake's Take Care album. They toured together, so they were

(15:00):
very much like friendly. But then as they both kind
of went on their own trajectory and became very big
in different kind of crowds, they've drifted further apart. And
then now here we are now.

S1 (15:10):
Before we really dive into it all. I mean, where
do you sit with each of these guys? Do you
have a preference for the sounds of either Drake or Kendrick?

S2 (15:18):
No, I think I've always kind of taken the El
Paso approach to it. I think both have both have
like both can exist and we can be happy with
both and grateful to have both. I've never really nailed
my colours to any of their masks, and to be honest,
I'm very glad I didn't and I haven't because I
think this whole episode has been shameful and they are

(15:38):
both shameful. And I mean, I am disappointed I oh,
all right, there's the first one. Yeah, that's the wisest.

S1 (15:46):
Thing I've heard. Um, yeah.

S2 (15:47):
I mean, I know I'm, I'm trying hard not to
think of this as a battle for relevancy. And I'm
listening to you, Oz, and I'm hearing that you're telling
me this is about the future of hip hop. But
part of me is like, is this about the end
of hip hop?

S1 (16:01):
Well, I mean, look, that is not a terrible question
to to raise, because certainly that is one that a
lot of critics, a lot of hip hop critics have
been discussing, like this is maybe in some ways, you know,
these two, two titans that reflect an era that doesn't
really exist anymore, having one final throwdown, and we probably
will never see anything like this again. I think I
think there's a question there that that is worth discussing,

(16:22):
but let's, um, let's sort of delve into how we
got here for a minute. So as some have said,
these guys, they were friends, they collaborated a few times.
They sort of went into different lanes for the past
nearly decade now, I'd say. But in October they came
back into each other's orbits. Drake released a song called
First Person Shooter, which included a verse from another big rapper, J. Cole.

(16:46):
Uh J Cole referred to himself, Drake and Kendrick as
the big three of rap.

UU (16:51):
Me we the big three. Like we started the league.
But right now I feel like Muhammad Ali.

S1 (16:57):
Didn't kind of feel that controversial at the time. It was,
I guess, intended to be respectful and say, hey, we're
all pretty cool. I like hanging out with you guys.
Hip hop is great. Look at us here at the top. Uh,
in March though, this year things got a bit more hectic,
and we discussed this briefly a few weeks ago on
the show when Atlanta rapper future dropped an album with
producer Metro Boomin. Uh, I thought that album was like, fine.

(17:20):
There was like a bit of a blow up at
the time, but it didn't feel as dramatic as as
it has since gotten. There was a track on that
album called Like That featured Kendrick, where he took aim
at Drake and J. Cole, explicitly referencing that line about
them being the big three.

S8 (17:35):
Motherfuck the big three. It's just big me, nigga. Boom.

S1 (17:40):
Well, that was like definitely a dig at Drake and Cole.
It didn't feel like crazy. This is like a big
part of hip hop where people are just saying they're
better than the others. It's part of the braggadocio culture
of hip hop. Didn't really expect things to take the
turn that they did, but, um, yeah, we'll get there.
Probably the funniest twist, I think, in all of this
is J. Cole took that very personally and released a

(18:02):
seven minute long track criticizing Kendrick and then very, very
quickly deleted it and said, I'm sorry, I want nothing
to do with this. I don't know if he, like
someone from the future, went back in time and told him, dude,
you're just going to want to tap out of this
one and just go stay at home and have a
nice time. Watch um Shogun on Disney+.

S3 (18:19):
If anything, though, that has given us one of the
best parts of this beef in that like the internet
has had a field day with like, well, things have
gotten increasingly vicious between Drake and Kendrick. There's all these
memes of like, J. Cole right now, and it's someone
like walking through a field of grass, like having the
time of their lives. So yeah, I do wonder if J.
Cole is a bit like, well, I'm so glad I
tapped out and deleted my song. Or I personally, um,

(18:39):
kind of think it's a little bit embarrassing for him.

S2 (18:42):
Oh, you think he should have stepped up?

S3 (18:43):
Well, I mean, like, he he he basically like he
went in, he involved himself first and then like, he
really like whatever you think of Drake, I think at
least he like he committed. He committed, he committed. Whereas J.
Cole like you know, sure he hasn't then had like
all this dirty laundry of his aired. But I feel
like that will stick with him forever in hip hop,
which is famously like a reputation game. You know, he

(19:04):
may have made a smart decision, but it's still a
decision that paints him as someone who was not prepared
to throw it out.

S2 (19:08):
It's so good. I love that he, like, lit the
fire and then kind of spider monkey it out of there.

S1 (19:12):
Um, so Drake, uh, Drake decided to involve himself in this.
In the middle of April, he released his first diss
track aimed at Kendrick, push ups and tailor made freestyle.
At this stage, I think, like fair to say that
the disses were relatively tame. They mainly focused on. On
Drake criticizing Kendrick's music. Drake listed a bunch of rappers.
He thought that, uh, were better than Kendrick. He had

(19:35):
a go at Kendrick for collaborating with. Taylorswift and other
pop acts, which felt a bit dumb, like out of
all the people in the hip hop world who can
say you've gone too mainstream? Drake saying that to Kendrick. Uh,
I don't think really, really stacked up, but it's what
he did. And from there, things got way more personal.
Kendrick releases a track called euphoria and 616 in LA,

(19:59):
which accused Drake of having plastic surgery and most significantly,
at this stage, uh, Kendrick called Drake a bad father.
And we'll get back to why that's such a big deal.
But that was probably the first real escalation in terms
of this taking a vicious personal turn. The same day, uh,
Drake drops a track called Family Matters where he's like, okay,

(20:21):
you brought my son into this shit is going to
get real now, uh, he says that one of Kendrick's
children was actually fathered by his friend and colleague, Dave Frye,
and he accused Lamar of being physically abusive towards his wife, Whitney.
20 minutes after that track came out, Kendrick releases Meet
the Grimes. Probably like the darkest track in this whole beef.

(20:44):
And I say that because even though it really set
things to another level, no one really wants to talk
about this one too much because of just how brutal
it got. Kendrick directly addresses Drake's son, Adonis. He accuses
Drake of hiding a second child, this time a daughter.
He suggests that Drake is attracted to underage children and
accuses him of running a sex trafficking ring out of

(21:06):
his Toronto mansion. Yeah, as you can tell, quite, quite
a severe escalation in all of this. Um, from where
it started, from the big three.

S3 (21:15):
To very different to I'm better than you. Like it's
a big jump to then. Like, also you're running a
sex trafficking ring.

S1 (21:21):
The the next day, Kendrick follows up with another track,
Not Like Us. And this is maybe the best song
in the whole thing in terms of Just Like as
a standalone track.

UU (21:32):
Oh, I must have heard the beat. Ho de bo.
Any rap nigga. He a free throw, man. Damn. Call
the amber.

S8 (21:38):
Lamps. Tell em pre-pro nella nigga to the cross. He
walk around like teaser. What's up with these jabroni ass
niggas tryna see Compton. The industry can hate me. Fuck
em all they momma. How many apps you really got?
How many is too many options I'm finna pass on
this body I'm John Stockton.

S1 (21:52):
There's sort of early numbers out on streaming that this
could actually replace Taylor Swift as the number one track
on Billboard this week has a really catchy beat by
DJ mustard, and on it, Kendrick doubles down on calling
Drake a pedophile who he literally this time says the
word pedophile. He parodies Drake's music style, and it's kind
of considered at this stage that this is the point

(22:13):
where Kendrick has successfully shredded Drake's reputation. He's kind of
releasing two tracks for every one track Drake is dropping,
and he's also demonstrated his storytelling and his lyrical prowess,
which is the kind of level that he's on compared
to a more pop commercial pop star like Drake. The
kind of brief code and all of this is a
track called The Heart Part six, which is the final

(22:35):
track so far from Drake. He denies the pedophile allegations,
but doesn't really land any new blows on Kendrick. So
kind of takes us to where we are now, which
is a lot of personal, vicious rumors aimed at each other,
a lot of collateral damage for the people around them
in their lives, and a feeling that Kendrick has essentially won,

(22:57):
quote unquote, whatever that means. This feud. There's a lot
of stuff going on, a lot of stuff to talk about.
I think maybe where we can start is like, why
this drew so much attention? I think aside from how
big and successful and popular both of these guys are,
the rapid fire way these songs are being released, like
having 4 or 5 tracks released over the course of

(23:19):
a weekend. Like Thomas, you and I were messaging at
certain points about a track and then you're like, another
track has just been released. And then also how dark
a turn these allegations took. It feels like those two
things just sort of brought so many more people in
the periphery of hip hop into this feud over the
past week. Just talk me through why this became so big. Thomas.

S3 (23:41):
Well, yeah, I think it really was the frequency. You know,
like in previous hip hop feuds, you would wait, like,
you know, whether it's NAS and Jay-Z or Tupac and
Biggie and like the 90s, you'd have to wait like
ages for them to go off and like, film a video.
And it'd be like months between, you know, like hit
him up versus who shot you. Whereas this was basically
contained to like a 48 hour period across the weekend.

(24:01):
And so I do think for a little while, you know,
this feud was kind of existing on the fringes, like
people who were really into hip hop were following it.
But when it kind of like seized the momentum across
the weekend and it was just like track after track
after track, I think it did kind of bleed into
the mainstream and suddenly people were like, well, hold on,
why are these two guys like, what is going on here?
And then and then like that, coinciding with the fact

(24:21):
it became so personal and these like really intense, you know,
allegations were being traded back and forth. And you know,
there's been so much chat and I think this really
plays into it, you know, of all these people saying like, oh,
this is why hip hop fans finally get why the
Swifties are so excited. Because like, this Easter egg culture
that we're in now, where all of these songs featured
like allegations or kind of like winks and nods about

(24:42):
things going on. And so you kind of like, tapped
into people's desire to go on the internet and be like, what?
What are they talking about? What is going on here?
So suddenly you had this, like volume of content being like,
flooded into the internet. At the same time, people are
like investigating to try and figure out what is going
on and who's really like, you know, got the right
Intel and everything. So it just kind of like this
confluence of factors, I think, seize people's imagination. I don't know,

(25:06):
that was my experience. I don't know, Mel, as someone
who may not be as typically tapped in to, you know,
this space, were you across it across the weekend?

S2 (25:15):
I was across it. Um, I mean, I think people
also like a train wreck, like, I don't know, I
think what we're seeing here is just both of these
people going off the rails, particularly, as you mentioned, the
claims got more and more intense. And I don't know,
like I was interested in it. And obviously, if you
recognize all the Easter eggs, you get something different out

(25:35):
of this because you're understanding a lot more of the references.
But I don't know, I just think it became really gross.
And I do think, at least in some parts of
the internet, maybe among people who aren't as rusted on
hip hop fans, there's like a feeling that this is
kind of gross and disgusting to watch. Um, I don't know.
Do you guys feel that at all? Like, I know
you're excited by the the songs and the music and, like,

(25:57):
I get the lyrics, the kind of funny and interesting
and clever at times. And the songs are legit songs
on their own. But do you think there's a level
of grossness to this? And yeah.

S1 (26:06):
Look, I want to I do want to get into that.
I think if it's okay, we'll put a pin in
that element of it for a second, because I do
think there's a bit around the context to this before
we sort of unpack when things may be spun out
of control a little bit, I think. I think, Thomas,
your point about Taylor Swift is, is really interesting because
in some ways, this is the first feud in a
kind of post Taylor Swift social media Reddit true crime

(26:30):
era where like, you know, rap genius now just called genius.
The website's been around for a long time where you can, like,
look up hip hop songs and people can provide annotations
and things, but the level of analysis people were doing
seemed out of control. Like the tracks 616 in LA,
people are like oh 616. That's a reference to Father's
Day in Canada. That's a reference to the date. The
first season of euphoria, the TV show about high schoolers

(26:52):
having sex that Drake executive produced, came out. That's also
a reference to a biblical verse. It's also a reference
to like. It could be a reference to one of
these things. It could be a reference to three of
them or none of them. I think there's an element
of just people creating their own lore around this stuff
that just grows and grows and grows and snowballs, and
I think it's a really smart comparison to sort of
put that in the frame. And as ludicrous as it sounds,

(27:15):
the way that Swift has sort of trained music fans
and others to think about music and lyrics. But one
of the things I want to ask you, Thomas, is
whether you think this was ever a real or fair
rap battle feud. These are two very different kinds of rappers.
You laid it out very well at the start. Drake

(27:36):
is much more poppy, much more commercial. Kendrick is more
known for his incredibly complex rhymes, his storytelling. That's the
kind of thing that generally wins you a rap beef.
Do you think he was always going to come out
on top? Were there moments in which you thought Drake
had the upper hand here?

S3 (27:51):
Uh, I mean, it's hard because there's so many quantifiers.
I love Drake, as you know, obviously pre potentially. Sex offender. Drake, I.

S2 (28:01):
Believe you said to me that you're the Drake of journalism.

S3 (28:03):
I know you said that to about me.

S1 (28:06):
You were raised. You were raised in the clubs of
Sydney in the late 20 tens. It makes sense. It
makes sense. Exactly.

S3 (28:12):
Take care is a special album. No. But like, I
think I did think that generally there was a. Consensus
that Kendrick was winning from the start and he was
always going to win. But when Drake dropped Family Matters
on Saturday morning, I think people saw a slight momentum
shift and I say slight because it lasted all of

(28:32):
20 minutes because it was it was a I think
it was a pretty like hard hitting song. And he
also recorded a video with it like, you know, really impressive,
like production values. He kind of went all out, probably
not anticipating that Kendrick would like, cut his legs out
for two more.

S1 (28:46):
In the chamber, ready to go straight away.

S3 (28:48):
But I mean, my personal take is that obviously before
things did get really problematic and weird and I was
kind of like enjoying the drama of this beef for
what it was like. There is this mentality in the
hip hop world that, you know, the critical bar for
someone like Drake is so much higher than what people
expect for Kendrick. Like, you know, Drake literally raps in
Family Matters. Like Kendrick just opened his mouth. Somebody hand

(29:11):
him a Grammy right now. And that is like, there's
a lot of truth in that joke. I think Kendrick
can kind of like, do something or say anything that
and people will just fall over themselves to say how
amazing and smart he is. And so I again, before
things got really weird, I was kind of impressed that
Drake did decide to take this on, and I thought
he was doing pretty well. And I thought when Family
Matters came out, he kind of took the lead. You know,

(29:32):
you've got Kendrick as this really earnest rapper who is
so serious, and Drake is the absolute embodiment of internet culture.
He responded to most of the tracks with just like
funny memes on the internet that people thought were really good,
and he was like, needling Kendrick. And and I said
to you over the weekend, I was like, stepping out
of this. It really is a funny thing to watch
because Drake is the perfect foil for someone like Kendrick.

(29:52):
He he's mean, he's gossipy, he's funny. He's just like,
you know, snide remarks. Whereas Kendrick is like really, you know,
self-serving and really serious. And so it made for a
great feud. And I personally thought when Family Matters came out,
I was like, oh, Drake actually is holding his own
here against someone who people are going to be really
quick to give the win anyway. Obviously. Kendrick then released
two more tracks, especially Not Like Us. I think really

(30:14):
like killed the feud off, and also took it into
an area where even the kind of casual observers or
the people really invested, like you and I, who were
enjoying it for what it kind of was, it started
to become harder to get hyped about it because it
felt just like.

S1 (30:26):
It's like The Simpsons meme like, stop, he's already dead,
you know?

S3 (30:29):
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I generally think it was an
interesting reflection for a while, at least that, you know,
Drake was up against it from the get go. He
was behind the eight ball. He is seen as this
dumb pop rapper. And I was like, ah, I think
he gets points for like going into this and holding
his own. Yeah.

S1 (30:46):
I think that's why Mel and like, I promise you,
we will talk about when things got weird, but I
think I just wanted to set a little bit on
the bits of the feud that sort of, you know,
felt more reminiscent of, of rap feuds of old because
this has been a part of hip hop for so long,
and maybe for people really outside of the culture, watching
two men in their like, late 30s trade barbs seems weird,

(31:06):
but this has been in hip hop's DNA from day one,
whether it is the East Coast, West Coast stuff, whether
it was the gangsta rap versus conscious rap stuff in
the 2000, the postcode wars in the drill scene in
UK and Australia, a large part of rap has been
people sort of like taking shots at one another, and
it's always strayed a bit into like weird territory. Like

(31:26):
in the 90s and 2000, there was a lot of homophobia,
there was a lot of accusations of people sleeping with
one another's wives. That's always been part of it. A
lot of it, you know, that I think is the
most interesting for for people like Thomas Knight probably is
when they make fun of each other or take shots
at each other for the music that they make. Like
the other Drake line I thought was interesting was, you know,
Drake said, Kendrick's always rapping like he's about to get

(31:46):
the slaves freed. Kendrick hit back hard on that, but
it's like, that's funny, memorable sort of lines that reflect
where each other are. And it's sort of, if you
take it in, uh, spirit of competition, it doesn't feel crazy. Like,
you know, we had Scribble Jam, like hip hop tournaments.
Rap battles were a place where rappers emerged and established

(32:06):
their credentials. So evaluating it on that level for a bit,
I think is is interesting. And then, yes, I think
we do need to talk about whether it went a
little bit kind of unhinged. But there's there's it feels
like Thomas says more going on here as well. Like
there is this long term animosity that a lot of
rappers seem to have towards Drake, and a lot of

(32:28):
that really came to the fore with some pretty explicit stuff,
Kendrick was saying. No need to get into like all
the details. There are some people who say that this
goes back to 2002, when a rapper called Birdman didn't
pay Pharrell for a beat. Believe it or not, there
is like a family tree that shows how you go
from Birdman on one hand to Drake and Pharrell to
push a T and all this sort of stuff. So

(32:49):
there's like lots of history here as well. But Drake
has been the subject of big disses from big rappers
for a while, like Meek Mill. Uh, Philly rapper had
a go at him for using ghostwriters. Probably the biggest
thing that happened before this feud was Pusha T revealing
on his diss track Story of Adidon that Drake had
a kid like that is how the world found out

(33:11):
that Drake had a secret son. And for a rapper
that really projected this sort of soft boy image, and
always at the clubs waiting for a text back that
seemed to really shift the narrative around him. I think
the other part of this, and Kendrick addresses this head on,
and I think probably not, none of us are the
right people to talk about this in detail, but it

(33:31):
is worth mentioning that Drake, unlike Kendrick, has a mixed
race background. He has faced accusations of being like a
culture vulture of leaning into blackness when it suits him
without paying proper respect. Kendrick mentions that a number of
times in these disses, he talks about the way Drake
says the N word. He doesn't like the way he
says the N word. He talks about when Drake goes

(33:52):
to Atlanta, kind of like a modern capital of current
southern hip hop, and goes there to get credibility and
cultural clout by working with artists like Migos. There is
a pretty intense racial dynamic to this as well. And
people point out, well, J. Cole is also mixed race,
but the response there is, well, J Cole doesn't seem
to pick and choose as much like Drake has done

(34:14):
this for a long time. When he went to London
and started borrowing that sort of south London sound, and
it's one of the first times someone's just laid it
out super, super explicitly. So it does feel like there's
this pent up anger from a lot of the hip
hop scene to someone like Drake, who has become so
commercial by being able to pick and choose what his
kind of racial context is at different times. Is that

(34:35):
fair to say?

S3 (34:36):
Yeah, I think so, because it's always been this thing,
especially in the last like probably 20 years of these
like fans who feel like they need to like, safeguard
the true honor of hip hop and what it really
means and what it's really supposed to be. But at
the same time, that mentality has had to deal with
the fact that hip hop and I guess, like the
wider black culture, has become one of the most popular
like genres of music in the whole world. And, you know,

(34:58):
we've had so many conversations on this podcast about like,
for instance, the rise of country music and how you
know what, who gets to own, you know, a genre.
And I think a lot of like, purist hip hop
fans have struggled with the likes of Drake, who are
kind of like bonafide pop stars, but also like rappers
and hip hop. And and there has always been this, like, simmering,
you know, tension around Drake. I feel like he spent

(35:20):
a really long time at the start of his career
battling it, and kind of like trying to prove to
people that he wasn't just like this punchline rapper who
could be made fun of. And for a long time
he was like that sensitive, soft boy. And I feel
like despite, you know, the constant accusations around that, he
kind of just because of the sheer volume of his hits,
he kind of, I guess, like managed to hold on
to some kind of cred. But there was always that

(35:41):
feeling around him that he wasn't legit. Um, you know,
in the, in the true hip hop sense. And I
still don't really know how I feel about like that
mentality for the genre. Is it a good thing that
we still, you know, in this day and age, believe
that you should try and hold on to like, what
the genre used to be 20, 30 years ago. Like
things change, things develop. And, you know, we just have

(36:02):
to accept that. But I do think this whole thing
has been a flashpoint then for Kendrick to kind of like,
speak into the echo chamber of all these people who
already thought all this about Drake and be like, you know,
you're mixed race. You say the N word when you shouldn't.
You're basically a pop star who likes to rap occasionally,
you know? And also you take a pic. Hahaha. But
but yeah, like, it just kind of like lit a

(36:22):
fuse that was already waiting to blow.

S2 (36:23):
I mean, I think as, as mentioned, those questions of
authenticity have always been built into hip hop, and I
think those questions always come to the fore when you
see art that starts as quote unquote outsider art outside
of the mainstream become part of the mainstream. So when
you have kids who grew up, you know, on the streets,
suddenly become billionaires, those questions of authenticity kind of are

(36:46):
inherently going to arise, because what made the art form,
what it is, is no longer there. So I think
like the change is inevitable in many ways, but those
questions have still kind of lingered. I don't know if
there is, like you said, you don't know what you
think is right or wrong, but maybe everyone's authentic is
very different. You know what I mean?

S1 (37:05):
Yeah, I feel like I feel like the issue here
is like, obviously there's space in this world for a
Drake and a Kendrick to exist. And I kind of
think Drake, I think it was a weird move for
Drake to involve himself in a rap feud, like. Because.
When you go like hip hop has evolved, it's changed.
There's all these different forms of it now as well.
But the format of a rap beef is like stripping

(37:27):
all of that away and you're just going toe to
toe bar for bar. Two people trying to prove how
real and authentic and brutal they can be to one another.
And in that context, a guy who grew up in
the suburbs of Toronto became famous for being a child
star on Degrassi Junior High, was never going to beat
someone who grew up in Compton, who raps about seeing
his first execution on the street when he was nine

(37:50):
years old. Like that just there's no format of a
rap feud where Drake would have won from that, and
maybe it's like good on him for at least trying.
But it's like you're in a different world. Be happy
in that world like no one asks you to. To
respond to the pretty soft initial Drake diss saying that
he was, you know, it was big me, not big three.

(38:11):
I find that to be a strange decision for Drake.
Maybe he thought the payoff is I'll get a bunch
of streams, but then the risk is, well, actually, you're
in a weaker position than you were before you entered it.
Because now everyone thinks you're an alleged sex criminal. It
just doesn't seem to have worked out.

S3 (38:28):
Yeah, but, like, how hard is it to, you know,
it's easy for us to sit here and say that.
But this is a guy who, you know, is like,
basically on top of the music world. As I said before,
signed the largest publishing deal in history like a few
years ago with universal. Everything and everyone around him is
telling him he's probably the greatest rapper to have ever lived. Like,
do you think he's got any perspective left to not
have the ego to involve himself in this? Like, of

(38:51):
course he doesn't like, you know, and again, I think,
you know, probably he saw this as an opportunity to
be like, wow, all the things I haven't conquered. Maybe
I could take on the one guy that people really
see as like above me right now in terms of
credibility or, you know, just like bankability like Kendrick has
always had that kind of mystique. And, you know, like
I said, that almost like the Tupac Shakur thing around

(39:13):
him where like, everyone just universally is like, well, Kendrick
is the man. And, you know, yeah, I definitely see
a reality where Drake is so high on his own
success that, you know, there was never a world where
he could have, like, not touched this.

S1 (39:36):
Let's talk about where things got really dark. And I
think this is probably where a lot of people either
switched off or really switched in, just because of how crazy,
outlandish things were getting. Lots of women as collateral damage.
Like that's that seems to be one of the clear,
like big criticisms of this feud, even from hip hop
writers in the States. Drake accusing Kendrick of abusing his wife.

(40:02):
Kendrick saying that Drake has a daughter. Kendrick saying that
he sleeps with underage children. Bizarrely, he didn't mention anyone
by name, and then Drake went out of his way
to mention Millie Bobby Brown, who is a she's obviously
the actress from Stranger Things, and there's been all sorts
of weird rumors around that after she, I think she
was 15, said that she was texting Drake and he

(40:22):
was giving her advice on dating. That was all very odd.
That wasn't mentioned by name by Kendrick, but then Drake
sort of brought her into it like this, did, then
bring in a lot of people who clearly weren't choosing
to be a part of it. I'll admit that, like
while it was going on, I wasn't saying this is
out of control. This is crazy. I just thought it
was astonishing to see two of the biggest stars on

(40:43):
the planet just say stuff and be willing to say
it and double down and go after one another. And
in some ways, I thought it was if you accept
that a lot of rap and a lot of rap
beefs are kind of fictionalized, they're heightened and you just
sort of say exaggerated things to get attention. Didn't think
in the moment it was that out of control. But

(41:03):
when you look at it in the cold light of
day and you're like, oh, the body count is piled
up here, there's a lot of innocent parties to this
who just, like, would feel really shit about being used
in this particular way. I guess that's how you feel, Mel.
Judging by what you were saying before, I really.

S2 (41:20):
I was invested and enjoyed this when the attacks were
about each other's art, creativity, authenticity. But then all of
a sudden, when these kind of wild claims got brought
into it, it took a very dark turn. And on
one part, on one hand, I'm like, it's good that
being a kind of beating up your wife or having
sex with underage girls is considered bad, and that they're

(41:43):
saying it's a diss, like that's that's good on one level.
But there is something that feels quite wrong in weaponizing these,
these very serious kind of issues in, in a battle
of this format. Like it's not really paying attention to
the victims in any way, and it's just using these
claims to kind of one up each other. I think
that's what is uncomfortable about it reducing these kind of

(42:06):
quite serious things to a disk, quote unquote.

S1 (42:09):
And a lot of people have pointed out, you know,
for all of Drake's allegations about Kendrick being abusive, he
is a very public supporter of Tory Lanez, who was
convicted of shooting Megan Thee Stallion. Like, it's not like
Drake has moral high ground here necessarily. I wonder whether
part of it is also, you know, in an era
without the internet where people just sort of say vague
things about like, you're an abuser, you're this, you're that.

(42:31):
It's sort of like it floats away and you don't
really know who they're talking about. If it's a specific thing,
is it a current thing? But as Thomas was saying earlier,
now it's like this land of Easter eggs where you like, okay,
this is a reference to this particular individual. I've resurfaced
the TikTok video from 12 years ago. That's what this
is about. So you can actually name specific people who
rappers are maybe just intending to be metaphors or punchlines

(42:54):
for a bigger point.

S2 (42:56):
Yeah. I mean I am interested to about I guess
none of them are going to to the courts to
sue for libel, but it is kind of incredible the
things you can, um, you can put inverse.

S3 (43:06):
Yeah. I mean, it's it's gotten to a weird place.
And I think, you know, one of the big criticisms
has been like, you know, if if Kendrick has long
suspected it or has information that Drake is running a
sex trafficking ring in his Toronto mansion, like, why hasn't
he brought this up earlier with the authorities and not
saved it for a rap beef? And like, similar with Drake,
you know, like if he has proof that Kendrick like
it's obviously these things would never happen. But it's just

(43:27):
like when you think about the seriousness of these allegations
and they're only ever being brought up for the.

S2 (43:32):
Snitches get stitches. Tom.

S1 (43:33):
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, like I think that's part
of it. Also, it's like they wouldn't go to the police,
but they want to sort of prove that they know
these things and that they're better than the other person.
But yeah, okay. Maybe for like a sex trafficking ring,
if Kendrick really thinks there's like 114 year olds in
Drake's mansion, maybe don't sit on that until 2024. You know, until.

S3 (43:52):
You happen to find yourself in a rap beef where
it would make for a really convenient punchline. So I
think that can, combined with the fact that it all
just got so dark, like, I'm not like us, you know? Yeah,
as I said, I think we've both been very, you know,
keen observers and enjoying this for what it was. But
everyone I know that was really into it found themselves
increasingly like, it's like, how do you how are you

(44:12):
supposed to respond to this? Like, I was genuinely really
interested to hear each new track, but as they got
more and more like, you know, there was more and
more collateral damage piling up, I was like, oh, I
don't know quite how to feel. At the end of
the day, when you look at the reality of this feud, like,
as I've said earlier, Drake belongs to Universal Music, and
Kendrick in 2020 signed a publishing deal with Universal Music,

(44:35):
so his music is distributed by them. So at the
end of the day, both of these guys are making
money for the same company, which renders the whole thing
a little bit crazy. Like if you check the stream count,
these songs are like rocketing up. These guys are making
bank off this, even as all these people who didn't
ask to be involved are now dragged into it. But really,
it's universal music, this enormous conglomeration that's like the only

(44:57):
one winning well.

S2 (44:58):
And both of them, and like we've talked about it
quite a bit on the pod about hip hop's kind
of how you often speak about how there's not much
going on in hip hop that you find exciting, and
all of a sudden, look at us, we're talking about
hip hop. It's exciting. So yeah, I'm sorry.

S1 (45:10):
To all my country friends, I'm out.

S3 (45:12):
I'm out until Morgan Wallen, like, smashes Luke Combs in
the head with a guitar.

S1 (45:17):
Well, the other the other rapper that's weighed in on
this one who's also signed to universal is Vince Staples,
who is sort of like the conscience of of our
times right now. He he sort of made the point. Look,
universal is making coin of all of this. Universal has
collapsed all these labels that brought up that really cared
about black music, black communities, they don't care about that anymore.
Hip hop is struggling like this is a real thing.
I think the other part of this, I think you're right, Mel, that,

(45:39):
you know, hip hop is in a not very strong
position in, in the US, at least right now. And
a large part of that or a significant part of
that has to do with the way that music labels
are just not nurturing or supporting or encouraging talent in
the way that they used to, partly because there aren't
that many specific hip hop labels left. And Vince is saying,
you know, hey, Taylor Swift's got clout. You know what

(46:00):
she talks about? She talks about the plight of artists
and how to get more money for artists. These guys
have enormous power and money and profile, and they are
not talking about any of these issues that impact the
wider hip hop scene, which I thought was a really
interesting and really sharp observation from a guy also signed
to universal who sort of willing to call it out.

S2 (46:19):
Yeah, I mean, Vince, one of me, and maybe that
will be the rapper I nail my colours to. Um,
can I ask if you had someone from out like
someone left field was to join this feud? It can
be anyone. Who would you like to see kind of
weigh in now at this stage?

S1 (46:33):
Well, one of the other funniest bits, as well as J.
Cole sort of tapping out, was like the 48 hours
that Kanye West was involved, where he released a remix
of Like That and it opened with like, you know,
k-dot I Got You. And it just was terrible. And
I think it got deleted because he didn't. It wasn't
a proper remix and future, and everyone was like, get
out of this, dude, we don't need you involved in
this right now.

S3 (46:53):
I already know my answer. And he actually did involve
himself last night. Does anyone here remember your boy bangs?

S1 (46:59):
Yeah.

S3 (46:59):
Of course. Yeah. I then take you to the movie. Yeah, yeah.
He released a diss track to Drake last night. Uh, so,
I mean, if you remember bangs and his very odd
viral hit take you to the movies, Shorty, uh, then
the the diss track to Drake is in much the
same nature. It's, uh, very hard to read and follow, but, yeah,
I mean, it's it's bringing in everyone from all corners

(47:20):
of hip hop. But perhaps most surprisingly, this artist actually
did involve himself. Someone I never would have thought been
mentioned in the same breath. But Macklemore.

S1 (47:28):
Yeah, this was so interesting because Macklemore has already sort
of been weirdly involved in Drake Kendrick's life. He won
the Grammy like ten years ago. He beat good kid
Mad City, he beat a Drake record as well, and
he famously shared a screenshot of a text he sent
to Kendrick saying, I'm sorry, you deserve to win. And
he released this really intense song, uh, this week about the, uh,

(47:50):
not just Israel's invasion of Gaza and the amount of,
you know, death and destruction. In Gaza, but also really
blew up at the US government, told everyone he wasn't
going to vote for Biden, defended the student protests, discussed
Israel being an apartheid state. He went really, really hard
on this issue and also kind of took a pretty,

(48:11):
you know, it was a quick shot, but it was
a shot at both Drake and Kendrick, essentially. Like, you
guys are wasting time arguing with each other over nothing real. Meanwhile,
there's people dying and there's student protests happening in America
right now where police are, you know, cracking down on
freedom of speech.

S9 (48:26):
What happens to the artists, what you gotta say, if
I was on a label, you could drop me today.
I'd be fine with it. Cause the heart fed my page.
I want a cease fire. A response from Drake.

S1 (48:36):
What you're willing to risk felt like a pretty hard
pivot from Macklemore. Not necessarily what I expected, but people
have pointed out that he's done this for a while.
This is kind of what modern Macklemore does. He talks
about white privilege and politics. I was sort of out
of the loop on his pivot, but he really injected
himself into this one.

S3 (48:55):
Yeah, I mean, the Macklemore thing was a really weird
addition to an increasingly strange story. But yeah, I think
what's most curious now is that basically, I guess this
is the longest amount of breath we've had since the weekend.
Like Drake released The Heart Part six on Monday morning,
and I think pretty much everyone saw it as a,
you know, quiet retreat. Um, he kind of tried to
be like, okay, whatever, man, I'm not doing this with

(49:16):
you anymore. And then since then, we haven't heard anything
from either artist outside of, you know, this alleged shooting
at Drake's house on Wednesday morning. So I guess most
people are, I think, accepting and kind of secretly hoping
that the feud is over. I don't know if it
needs any more chapters. And I think, you know, knowing
Kendrick as I do, that I can't imagine him needing
to weigh back in now. Like it seems pretty obvious

(49:38):
that he, you know, like, rapped and exposed Drake into submission.
And I think it's for the best for everyone involved,
including the audience. And everyone mentioned that this feud is
over now. It was definitely a bizarre and interesting and
revealing moment in hip hop history, and no doubt we'll
continue to kind of like dissect it. But yeah, I
personally would be so shocked if, you know, like in

(50:00):
two days time you text me and you're like, oh
my God. Kendrick just dropped again.

S1 (50:03):
I agree, and I actually think that maybe Macklemore has helped.
Just like put the nail in the coffin on this
one as well. I think, you know, he sort of
just said, look, guys, this thing's going on. He's sort of,
you know, I think mainstream commercial hip hop in America
has been missing that political edge for a while. I mean,
Tupac was so good at being able to throw shots
at East Coast rappers and then also talk about what

(50:25):
was going on in the world and, and American imperialism
and whatever. And, and Macklemore of all people saying, all right, guys,
let's talk about real shit again. Could be the coda
on this one and kind of just usher in a
new conversation about many different and perhaps less personal, uh,
topics that these guys were trading shots on. It's a

(50:45):
bit of a heel turn. This next topic. Not really
an easy way to segue from Kendrick, Drake and Macklemore
to Dua Lipa. I guess it's music related, but on
the other end of the spectrum was one of the
most highly anticipated releases this year. Dua Lipa's Radical Optimism,
the follow up to her very fun and critically acclaimed
2020 album Future Nostalgia. The first single on Radical Optimism

(51:08):
was Houdini.

UU (51:13):
Tell me all the ways you need me. I'm not
here for long. Catch me or I go, Whodini, I
come and I go. Prove you've got the right to
please me. Everybody knows. Catch me or I go Whodini
time is passing like a solid.

S1 (51:30):
Produced by Australia's own Kevin Parker, Tame Impala. I didn't
love this track, but then when the album came out
last week and I listened to it a few times,
it's maybe the best song on it, which I think
sums up how I feel about this album. Very flat
record to me. I think, especially following the kind of
disco club vibes of Future Nostalgia had so many bangers

(51:52):
levitating physical, I don't even know if this one like
is a full, proper pop album. There's a couple of
pop songs, but do you guys remember adult contemporary where
you're just like, this is a person making noise, and
it's sort of nice to have in the background, but
it's not doing or saying much. Well, I know that
you were hyped for this one, but how do you
feel about it?

S2 (52:10):
I was so hyped for this, and there was a
lot of kind of chat around it because from, um,
Dance the Night Dua's song for Barbie, there was the
very symbolic shattering of the disco ball at the end
of that, which was meant to represent the end of
Dua's disco era. And in the lead up to the
release of this album, she'd kind of been making all
these claims about what had inspired the album Primal Scream,

(52:33):
Brit pop. Um, it was kind of low slung British
source material. So it kind of she was flagging that
this was going to be a reinvention. And then when
I listened to to this album, I just don't think
it's a reinvention at all. There is a lot of
classic Dua on there, but without the kind of sparkle
of future nostalgia. But it's not a complete pivot. I

(52:53):
don't think for her and I agree with you. I
was like, actually, really like the first three songs of
this album, end of an era, Whodini, you mentioned, and
Training Season, and then it kind of goes into this
pivot to a more muffled sound, a very kind of
Tame Impala. Kevin Parker, who produced this record, sound in
songs like Kind of French Exit and These Walls. They're

(53:15):
shades of Dua again in all of them, but they're
a lot more kind of drawn back. And then at
the end of this album, there are these real like
Eurovision bangers, these like kind of really big ballady sounds,
which some people love. But I much prefer Dua when
she's like kind of when it's all in the vocals
and it's all in that, that really vibrant dance beat.
So yeah, I thought there were highs and lows on

(53:35):
this album, but kind of agree with you that it
wasn't the it wasn't the amazing sparkly record that I
kind of thought might be coming our way.

S3 (53:43):
Yeah, I didn't really vibe at all. Um, our colleague
Rob Moran was so excited for this one, and he
just looked so crestfallen after having listened to it, because,
I mean, this is this was the big year for like,
all these, like, massive pop albums that were previewed it.

S1 (53:56):
I think at the start of the.

S3 (53:57):
Year, I know, and this just feels like such a
limp like addition to that, you know, list. Yeah, like
I feel like Dua Lipa has been kind of untouchable
for a while, and then it just makes you wonder,
like when you when you like in the studio, all
these different people and you listen through this album, how
is no one sitting there being like, I don't know,
maybe they must think it's all really good, I don't know.

S1 (54:15):
Yeah, there's some chat that, like her dad who's taken
over her management, maybe isn't sort of playing the the
best role he should be. I agree 100% on this.
Like there should be some label ainars in here being like, okay,
you want to do some of this? That's cool. But like,
where are the hits? Like the point of a pop
record is you need some hits and this just doesn't have.

S3 (54:32):
Yeah. And that's why you need to bring in Tedros.

S2 (54:34):
Tedros and that hit factory.

S1 (54:38):
Um, talking about hits though, there is like a hit
I'm really enjoying right now. Uh, Sabrina Carpenter, who we
all saw when she opened for Taylor Swift, her song espresso.

UU (54:48):
Now, here's the thing about me every night. Oh, is
it that sweet? Like a song. So you can't sleep,
baby I know that's that means so. Nintendo. So you
can see.

S1 (55:06):
This feels like the song of northern Hemisphere summer. People
are loving this song. I'm loving this song. Uh, it's
very fun. It feels like it should be on on
a duo record. You guys, you guys that that me
espresso your vibe in it.

S2 (55:19):
Man, I love it. I've listened to that song though,
so many times. And still I can only be like, no, no, no.
Espresso like that is the only line. I can still
switch it up like.

S1 (55:29):
Nintendo.

S2 (55:29):
You know, I mean, Nintendo Switch.

S1 (55:31):
Yeah. There's also like, I was staying out late because
I'm a singer or something like that. It's very funny.
It's like very self-aware, funny lyrics and very catchy at
the same time.

S2 (55:41):
You know, like, don't give a fuck era. I really,
I love Sabrina Carpenter. I liked nonsense too. I know
a lot of people don't didn't really get her vibe,
but I think she's very funny and interesting and is
kind of more edgy and risky in her lyrics and
her performance. Um, than probably Taylor is.

S1 (55:56):
Yeah, I think she could. She could be on the
cusp of blowing up. She does this really fun thing
on her tour where she sort of adds an extra
verse at the end of her set to reference where
she's at, and sometimes it's pretty saucy. It's cool. I
think she's fun and interesting and the song is really catchy.
Are you are you bumping this one time itch?

S3 (56:13):
Yeah, I really like it. I like Sabrina too. I
feel like she's like having a bit of a moment. Um,
so she was also at the Met Gala yesterday along
with Barry? Um, yeah. Barry.

S1 (56:21):
Partner, if.

S3 (56:22):
People don't know. Yes. Correct. Um, yeah, I think she's
she's good. You can just see like, the trajectory she's on.
Obviously she toured here with Taylor Swift recently. Um, sadly,
I did not get to see her because her set
was rained out.

S1 (56:34):
Oh, true.

S3 (56:35):
Electrical storm. But everyone, everyone that I had spoken to,
all the Swifties who had gone, you know, like, every
single night were like, you know, raving about Sabrina Carpenter, um,
as much as they were Taylor. So I feel like
she's she's really on one. She's about to or just
is the musical act on SNL.

S2 (56:49):
And her Coachella set went kind of off as well.
People raved about it. Barry was there watching. Yeah, she's.

S3 (56:54):
Collecting like all the pop culture rings you need when
you're on the way to being like, the next big thing. Um,
and then obviously she will enter into a feud with
Olivia Rodrigo that we will then talk about. Um, I
think she has, hasn't she? Yeah. But like a proper
public one where Olivia Rodrigo is like, I don't know,
revealed to be. Oh, I see you were alien or Drake.

S1 (57:11):
Kendrick thing, and I stepped on it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
but I think they sort of threw, um, barbs at
each other over driver's license. Is that is that what happened?

S3 (57:19):
Yeah. They did. Um, because I think there was also
an accusation of a shared boyfriend, uh, or something.

S1 (57:23):
That's pretty hectic. That is. We're talking Drake. Kendrick level. Mel,
where were you when that was going on? Not complaining
about collateral damage.

S2 (57:29):
Exactly. You guys.

S3 (57:31):
It really is the winter of discontent.

S2 (57:33):
Oh, nice. Thank you. I'm glad you've stooped to my request.

S1 (57:36):
All right, movie time. Guys. There's been a lot of
discourse in entertainment news around the release of the new
Ryan Gosling Emily Blunt action comedy, The Fall Guy, which
was filmed in Sydney, Australia.

S10 (57:49):
That's me. Colt Seavers. And this is my hero's journey.

S11 (57:58):
Can we just start from the top?

S10 (58:02):
What do you want it? Okay. I'm not the hero
of this story. I'm just a stunt guy trying to
look cool in front of the director of this movie.
That's her.

S1 (58:13):
It's been a slow start to the year in terms
of box office numbers. And I think after the massive
Bodenheimer induced high of 2023, studios and cinema chains are
kind of really desperately craving some big releases to get
people back into the movies. This was an expensive film.
It cost 150 million USD to make. It's got big stars,
big action set pieces in it, so there's a bit

(58:36):
riding on it. We'll talk about its performance and what
that might mean for Hollywood in a minute, but let's
talk about the film and kind of interested to get
your takes on it as well. It's a loose adaptation
of the 1980s TV series of the same name starring
Lee majors. I never watched it. I just know Lee
majors because he was in a Simpsons episode. I think
Marge had a big crush on him. Um, the movie's
directed by David Leitch. He's a former stuntman himself. He

(58:59):
co-directed the first John Wick film, directed Deadpool two, the
Fast and Furious spin off Hobbs and Shaw, and most recently,
the Brad Pitt starring Bullet Train. This film really is
a love letter to stunt performers. It stars Ryan Gosling
as a stuntman who, after quitting his job after getting
into an accident on set, is convinced to get back
in the game, working on his ex-girlfriend's directorial debut action

(59:21):
film that's played by Emily Blunt. The movie's filming in Australia.
When he gets there, he finds himself involved in a
conspiracy surrounding the disappearance of the film's lead actor, Aaron Taylor-Johnson.
The film also stars Hannah Waddingham from Ted Lasso, Teresa Palmer,
Stephanie Sue and Winston Duke. The movie is basically a
love story between Gosling and Blunt, with a lot of action,

(59:44):
a lot of stunts, a lot of fun references to
cinema and pop culture in there. I would describe it
as like, thoroughly entertaining, pretty fun, but not like a
transcendent movie. I thought Gosling in particular was really great,
and Emily Blunt was good, but her character does not
have a lot to do or much depth in this film.

(01:00:04):
I had a good time in the cinema, but I
don't know if I describe it as a must watch. Uh,
what did you guys make of The Fall Guy?

S2 (01:00:10):
I did not have a good time in the cinema. Oh, really?
I didn't I really wanted to like it. In fact,
I sat down next to Thomas and I said to him,
I'm really happy. Like I was in the right headspace
to watch it. And I kept thinking about this. This
one time I was going to my friend's house and
we all had to bring a dessert, and I decided
I would make an Eton mess, which is just like
a strategically, it looks like a mess, but it isn't
a mess and it tastes delicious. And when I ended

(01:00:32):
up making it, it turned out just a mess. Like,
look like something that someone had eaten and then regurgitated.
And I kind of felt like watching this. I was like,
someone thought this would be a good idea, but it
just turned out to be a bit of a mess. I,
I didn't enjoy it. There was too much action. Like,
I understand it's a love letter to to to stunts,
but there was so much spectacle and no story. Gosling's

(01:00:56):
character was confusing and seemed undercooked. Um, to be honest,
I was probably most alert during the credits when they
were showing the real footage of the stunts being made,
and I and I actually thought, wow, I think I
would actually prefer to watch a documentary about making this
film than this film. I just did not enjoy it.

S3 (01:01:14):
I kind of feel the same. I actually think, like,
I'm really surprised you said you thought Gosling was good.
I thought he was bad, like, I love I mean,
we all love the Gosling, and he's kind of like
on a bit of a heater off the back of
Barbie and this kind of comedy era. And I just
thought he was like the first 15 minutes especially. I
was like, wow. He is like not making me laugh.
And this is someone who I think normally can take

(01:01:36):
a really poor script. And just with his like Gosling
delivery can make it funny. And so I don't know
if it's an indictment on the script, but I thought
both he my biggest issue with the film was that
the chemistry between the two leads, Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt, was, like,
near non-existent for me. I thought he was in the
scene doing his Gosling schtick, and she was doing her
Emily Blunt schtick of like, talking really fast and seeming distracted.

(01:01:56):
But they weren't like, that's like two people acting in
a scene, like of their own, not together. And I
just thought they didn't gel. And then on top of that,
I thought that the story was like a little bit flimsy.
It was hard to kind of like, get involved. I
really went into this being like, this will be a fun,
kind of like Netflix movie, and it'll be like funny
and a good time. And instead I just, like, found

(01:02:17):
myself really drifting. Um, and the.

S2 (01:02:20):
Jokes just didn't land in our cinema. Right. Which is
kind of like, I thought, because David Leitch did Bullet Train,
which I thought was very funny, but the jokes in
our cinema didn't land like it was just really quite
awkward watching one. How busy was another?

S3 (01:02:32):
Not very busy. There's only a few people.

S2 (01:02:34):
None of us laughed.

S3 (01:02:35):
Yeah, I would say though, and like, you know, I
do have to caveat all this with like a friend
of mine is in the film and I actually thought
he was great. Uh, his name is Adam Dunn, Australian actor,
played Nigel, uh, who was singing, you know, Genie in
a bottle during the karaoke.

S1 (01:02:46):
He's great in the movie.

S3 (01:02:48):
Yeah, he was really good. And, you know, like I'm
saying all this, I know he listens to the podcast.
We had a, you know, very honest chat on text.
After the movie where he asked me what I thought.
He asked me to send a thumbs up or thumbs down,
which is a reference from the film. And I said
all of this to him, and, you know, he had
his own thoughts and we had a really interesting chat.
And I said to him that I didn't believe the
chemistry between the two leads, and he was really surprised

(01:03:08):
by that because he saw how hard they were working
on the film. So, you know, it's an interesting, I guess,
perspective to have. But yeah, I went in so prepared
to love this film because it had so many elements
that I was excited for, including the fact it was
shot here in beautiful Sydney. And yeah, I just for
some reason, like it didn't work for me. Like, I
loved The Gray Man. Like I'm so here for these
kind of like dumb Netflix films. And this one just felt,

(01:03:31):
aside from the fact it was 45 minutes too long,
it just didn't seem to work. It was having discussed
so much about the mid era, this was like mid
to a tee for me.

S1 (01:03:38):
I reckon you guys are in the wrong cinema with
the wrong people like I thought. I thought that the
jokes were funny. I thought Ryan Gosling was funny. I
thought the chemistry was great. I thought that when Ryan
Gosling is crying to Taylor Swift's All Too Well, uh,
that that was great. It was very moving.

S3 (01:03:54):
But even that for me felt like such a, like,
heavy handed, like, oh, there's been so many funny, like,
let's have a, you know, like guy listening to Taylor
Swift and being emotional, seeing let's just like wedge it
in there. It felt so forced to me. Yeah.

S2 (01:04:05):
I thought that was ironic. I thought they were making
fun of scenes of men.

S7 (01:04:09):
I reckon you were in the Taylor Swift movie.

S1 (01:04:11):
You're in the wrong gear for this movie.

S7 (01:04:12):
We were in the wrong. We're gonna be. We were happy.

S3 (01:04:16):
No. Had a, uh, like a what did you have, like,
some kind of rap?

S7 (01:04:19):
Yeah, I had.

S2 (01:04:20):
Like, I had food for once in the cinema, we.
I cannot tell you how ready we were to love
this film.

S1 (01:04:26):
All right, let's agree to disagree on this one. And
maybe you have more in common with the regular folk
who don't seem to be rushing to see this, which
is freaking, uh, some distributors and studios and movie chains out.
I think they were expecting this movie, which generally has
gotten pretty good reviews, like, it's sort of like three
and a half to four stars around the place. It's
doing pretty well on Rotten Tomatoes. People think it's the
kind of movie that should be bringing people to cinemas,

(01:04:49):
and it's not. And I wonder whether that's because, like
I said at the start, I had a fun time,
but I'm not racing out of the cinema and saying,
you've all got to go see the fall guy. I
think sometimes it's the problem with Rotten Tomatoes, where it's 90% positive,
but if every positive review is like three stars, that
doesn't get you excited enough to actually be an enthused

(01:05:09):
ambassador for this film. I also wonder, and Thomas, you
mentioned the Gray Man. My friend Amy messaged me and
was like, oh, you saw the fall guy? I didn't,
I see that isn't that free guy? I've seen that
one before, which is a different movie with Ryan Reynolds.
And there's also The Nice Guys. There's a lot of
Guy films around featuring Ryan's, and I wonder whether that

(01:05:31):
is just confusing people. As dumb as that sounds, or
whether people are like, cool, I'll wait for this movie
to come out on streaming. It looks like mid tier entertainment.
If I don't have to go out to the movies
and pay $25 for it, I'll have a good time.

S3 (01:05:42):
Well, Mel, you did say to me, I wonder if
I would have liked this film better if I watched
it on a Saturday night when it popped up on
Netflix and I'd had, like, a couple of glasses of
wine and like, I just popped it on and this, like,
it was just a Saturday night, like.

S2 (01:05:54):
Yeah, if I could talk all the way through it. Yeah, yeah.
Like potentially I think.

S1 (01:05:58):
I think potentially, I think maybe it will have a
big streaming run as well. But yeah, I wonder what
it means if it doesn't make its box office money back.
That's that's not a great result for this film or
for Hollywood making big movies. Uh, can I ask you
guys about, um, Sidney on film?

S3 (01:06:13):
Sweeney.

S1 (01:06:15):
Kind of. So we had anyone but you, which was
obviously filmed and set in Sydney and a lot of
gratuitous shots of Sydney Harbour Bridge and the opera House
and Sydney Harbour. And then this movie was filmed basically
the same place. Like, I was wondering if when Ryan
Gosling is on a boat in Sydney Harbour, he was
going to run into Glen Powell and Sydney Sweeney on
their boat. Maybe it's just because the proximity of these

(01:06:37):
two movies are really close together and they've both, you know,
gotten a lot of media attention. I love Sydney, I
love seeing Sydney on film. I feel like they could
do a bit more than just show us the opera
House and the Harbour Bridge and 2 or 3 blocks
in the city around Martin Place. So this is a big, beautiful, interesting, diverse,
fun city when you're in New York, not everything needs

(01:07:00):
to be in Manhattan. The Empire State Building can go
to Brooklyn. Not everything in London needs to be around
the Big Ben, you know? Like, is there a bit
of cringe here with the way that Sydney is just
the city and the harbour?

S3 (01:07:13):
Yeah, I think so. It was like, I know everyone
was excited to see the, you know, the Harbour Bridge
stunt with Ryan Gosling. And we'd all had a bit
of context because like, you know, all the news cameras
were hovering above the Harbour Bridge while he filmed it.
And but I do find it a bit boring. And
like Sydney, it may as well have been any other
city aside from the set piece on the Harbour Bridge,
and seeing the opera house like it just felt like,
you know, it could have been Toronto or New York

(01:07:34):
or Chicago or wherever, like, I don't know. Yeah, I agree,
I'm like, it'd be so nice to see them like
in like a national park or like in the western
suburbs or somewhere that was like still Sydney and recognizable
as Sydney, but just not, you know, the two biggest
icons that we're known for. Like, I'm surprised they didn't
go down to Bondi Beach.

S2 (01:07:51):
Yeah. I mean, I'd be yeah. I mean, that's a
good point. I'd. Be curious to see when the New
South Wales Government and Federal government cough up the funding
to help bring these international films here. What the terms
and conditions?

S7 (01:08:01):
I'm sure I'm.

S1 (01:08:02):
100% sure that the only reason there are so many
shots of the opera house is because the state government,
which gives a lot of money for these movies, have
said that's what we want. And I kind of think
maybe it's not the director's fault as much as it's
like the government being like, let's just turn every movie
into an ad for Sydney. But we're so, I guess,
scared of telling people that Sydney is more than the

(01:08:22):
bridge or the opera House. We don't want them to
go west or south or wherever.

S3 (01:08:28):
That's why, again, thanks to Taylor Swift for bringing us
to the attention of Sydney Zoo in the western suburbs.
I mean, Taylor, like, the more we talk about it,
the more I'm impressed. She's a she's a trailblazer.

S1 (01:08:40):
Oh, they could go to that. What's that sandwich shop.
You like Thomas in your part of town?

S3 (01:08:43):
Costas? Yeah. They could have gone to Costas. They not have.

S1 (01:08:47):
Had a sandwich at Costas.

S3 (01:08:48):
That's iconic. I mean, even like the like, there's, like,
Chifley Tower was in it, but yeah, otherwise it was like, it's,
you know, hardly even worth, like, getting excited about Sydney
being in the film. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, I
think there are lots of other better Sydney films, if
that's what you're after.

S1 (01:09:05):
All right, let's wrap up with Impress Your Friends. When
we share something we watched, read, listened to, or just
enjoyed consuming in the past week, do you want to
go first summer's.

S3 (01:09:14):
Uh, my one is TV series just to mix things up. Uh,
it's out today on Netflix. Uh, it's called Bodkin. Um,
actually a weird kind of fall guy tie in in
that the series is produced and directed by Nash Edgerton,
who is a stuntman, uh, as well as being Joel
Edgerton's brother, who also makes a cameo in The Fall Guy. Uh,
but he's also a director. He directs this series. Uh,
it's very funny. It's a dark comedy, um, in the

(01:09:36):
kind of that vein of Irish TV that we all
know and love. And, uh, you guys will enjoy this.
It's about a group of three podcasters.

S1 (01:09:42):
Is it really?

S3 (01:09:43):
It really is, uh, who come together. They work at
the Guardian. Bu but, um, they, they come together and, uh,
basically one of the, the, you know, lead journalists, uh,
she's been, you know, working on a big story in
London and she gets exiled to her hometown in Ireland, um,
to work on this series with two other podcasters. Um, about, like,
you know, a group of people that went missing 20

(01:10:04):
years ago. They slowly find themselves kind of, like, wrapped
up in, you know, the intricacies and feuds of the
small town. So it's that type of setup, but very funny.
And I think, you know, lots of people buy into
the podcast culture. And this has lots of like, uh,
moments they will enjoy about how serious, you know, true
crime podcasters take themselves. So yeah, I thought it was
really funny. Um, each episode is 45 minutes. It's a

(01:10:24):
Netflix drop, so everything's there available for you to watch.
That one's out today. And yeah, worth your time.

S1 (01:10:29):
The amount of movies and TV shows that are like
featuring podcasters as characters in the new Godzilla movie. Again,
Brian Tyree Henry is a podcaster. It's very strange. I
really wonder why that.

S7 (01:10:41):
I mean, it's a sexy medium, right? Well, podcast.

S3 (01:10:42):
Is the new like hard nosed journalists of like 90s films.

S1 (01:10:45):
Agreed. Um, Mel, what have you got?

S2 (01:10:48):
Well, after everyone has listened to Kendrick and Drake and
you've kind of been through their whole kind of feud,
this is a nice one to put in your earphones.
I've been really vibing Jessica Pratt's here in the Pitch,
which is her new album. It's only nine songs, 27 minutes.
There's something light and sunny to them and almost airless,
as well as this kind of sense of sadness on them.

(01:11:10):
I mean, it does kind of feel like maybe stepping
into the garden, there's this kind of fantasy sound. I
don't know, it's just one of those albums that I
keep finding myself listening to. Some albums. I'm kind of like,
you've got to be in the right mood, and you've
got to kind of be in the right state of mind.
I've found that a lot with the Beyonce album, like
I'm not necessarily gravitating towards putting it on, but this
one just seems to be one that I keep returning to.
So it's, um, a really nice kind of folk, retro

(01:11:33):
pop classic sound that I would, um, highly recommend if
you need to come down from all the kind of
highs of the rap battle.

S1 (01:11:40):
You put me onto this one. Uh, yesterday, Mel and
I have been listening to it. I really like it.
It's a great recommendation. Very, very good album.

S2 (01:11:47):
Oh, good. I can imagine you in your new home
putting it on.

S1 (01:11:51):
Um, I got one that I'm surprised neither of you mentioned.
Hack season three is back.

S7 (01:11:56):
Yes, Jane.

S1 (01:11:57):
Smart is back. It's on Stan, owned by nine. The
people who pay us to make this podcast, the Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age is probably more convoluted than
it needed to be. Um. It's great. There's not much
more I need to say about this show. I really,
really love hacks. I've been waiting for the new season
for a while. Go watch it. Very fun.

S3 (01:12:14):
It is very funny, very excited. But I did text
you last night. That should not be a weekly drop.
That show like the first two episodes were. They dropped
two at the start and now it's weekly from like
moving forward. Annoying. Doesn't need to be weekly. Drop the
episodes like 30 minutes. It's a comedy that could be
like bang! Just like, give us it, all of it.
And you can watch it at your own leisure like
no one is. Is anyone really, like, hyped on a
Tuesday night to get the new hacks and then watch

(01:12:35):
it for 30 minutes that you want to watch 3
or 4?

S1 (01:12:37):
It does feel like the binge is reverse things that
should not be. Binges are. And the other way around,
someone's got to sort this out. They should put us
in charge of just every TV show we come in
and we're like, doesn't matter what platform it's on. We'll
tell you the release format for this one.

S3 (01:12:50):
Yeah. Once we finished solving crimes in a tiny Irish town.

S1 (01:12:53):
Guys. Great chat. Take care. See you next week. Bye.
This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
a friend! I'm Usman Farooqi, see you next week.

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