December 5, 2025 • 41 mins
Dr. Marc Lamont Hill joins the show to break down the NBA’s growing gambling scandal, the Clippers cutting Chris Paul in the final season of his career, and why some conspiracy theories around the league aren’t as far‑fetched as fans think. Hill discusses how prop bets and injury reporting have changed the way fans watch the game, the Clippers’ alleged wrongdoing involving Kawhi Leonard, and why draft‑pick penalties may be the only meaningful consequence. He also weighs in on superstar fragility in the modern NBA, the rise of wealthy second‑generation players, and the cultural shift from gritty streetball roots to an upper‑middle‑class sport. The conversation also touches on football storylines, Russell Wilson criticism, and the ethics of journalist involvement in celebrity family disputes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Theorist would say also that many of the children in
the league are the children of NBA players and other
pros who played overseas, who birth children with white women
and made these extremely light skinned children.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
But I have a theory though, fat white women make
good black athletes.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, we gotta cancel my next meeting.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We got to talk.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
We have a very very special guest on the show
with us today. If he's a scholar, author, activist and
media personality, please welcome the one and only doctor Mark
Lamont Hill too.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good brother, Shaloon shaloon.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Man. What size is that T shirt? Man? Extra medium?
You know what's funny is I was about to change.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I was running from my Manny petty, you know what,
I mean to make this on time, and I was
gonna change, but I said, you know what, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I mean they won't make it a place of love.
It's a safe space.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Now you look good, man, you look well groomed. The
beard is doing immaculate things. I'm happy for your aesthetic.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Man. It's great man. I'm just happy. It's the gray
is coming in.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I see that working with Joe was stressing you out, man?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I was.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I was gonna say it was the Sixers, but you
know what, let's get into that out the gate. I
think the Sixers are in a really interesting spot. I
love dj Edgecomb, obviously, you love Maxi, I love Kelly Oubre.
You got a lot of good young talent on the wing,
except you have these two old dinosaurs who are clogging
the books, and Paul George and Joel Embiid. What is
(01:36):
the strategy for your team going forward?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Man, Well, you and I might disagree on that Kelly
Uber thing, but the bigger issue is it's not him. Obviously,
he's playing well this year. He's playing really well this year.
It's figuring out a plan for Joel Embiid and for
Paul George. Two years ago, I thought the Sixers needed
to make a decision with Joel Andbid, and I thought
(01:59):
the best at that moment, given health issues, was probably
the trade him.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I love Joel and Beat. I'm a huge fan of
Joel and Beat.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I just didn't know how many miles he had left,
and it seemed to me that it's better to sell high.
But they extended the contract and they kept going he
hasn't played a whole lot of basketball since. And it's
not because he doesn't want to. He's not lazy, he's not.
His body's just failing him, you know. And so you know,
the idea was, if we can get one healthy season,
and we can get and we can get Paul George here,
(02:27):
we have a legitimate shot to get to the finals.
That was the logic last year. Wasn't a terrible idea.
If you're going to go all in, that's how you
do it right. Suddenly you have a solid team, you
have a really strong start in five, you can switch
everywhere defensively, you got a lot of offensive weapons, but
neither of them played a whole lot of basketball. And
it seemed to me, particularly with the Paul George piece,
(02:49):
that once we started losing, he didn't have the motivation
to come back.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So there was no urgency from that team.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
This year optimistic again, four and zero, looking good, feeling good, team,
look good. But the thing that was interesting was we
were playing much better basketball when some guys were off
the floor, and that's always a red flag to me.
So now the dilemma you have is you got a
guy who's injured who makes more money than God, you're
not gonna get him in the trade, not for another
(03:16):
two years when it's you know, a fading contract. So
you kind of got to ride it out and kind
of build around and hope that you get lucky in
the draft. I hope you get lucky with a with
a a kind of diamond in the rough. And when
JoJo's on the floor, he also has to play a
different kind of basketball than he's probably played the last
few years.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
It looks bad. It looks bad for him right now.
I ain't gonna lie that.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You know, I watched that leg legs again.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
He's lumbering, and it's making them defensively, it's making them
much you know, I don't say liability, but he's not.
But there's no room protection like before. You know, he's
not able to recover. Every time he runs it down
the floor. I get worried for him. So that's a challenge.
You know, we have a backup, you know, who's athletic
and young. That helps, but it's hard to deny his
(04:01):
offensive gifts. So when he's on the floor, you got
to play. But now there's the question about whose team
it is, and I hate that to be the question.
It's not a question for people watching, but it's a
question when he's on the floor and.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Y'all aren't being honest about reporting his injuries. I saw
that y'all just got fined one hundred thousand dollars because
y'all said that MB was going to be out and
then he played.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So there's two things happening right One is the league
is just on everybody's can we say everybody's asked right now?
Because of all the gambling suspicions, you know, one of
the things that's come up is when do you report injuries?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
At what time do you report injuries? When do you
upgrade somebody?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
When you downgrade somebody because there were you know, so
they want to be above board. So I think people
are just paying more attention to what's happening with these
reported reports than before. It's not that anything different is happening.
A lot of times guys think they're going to play
and they don't.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
We're used to that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But when a guy when they said guys doubtful, you know,
like today, they upgraded them for the for the Warriors
game about about five minutes before we recorded it. I mean,
I think he just feels better, and it's a national
game against the Warriors, you know, and he likes that
kind of stuff. So I think part of a lot
of it is just people giving us more scrutiny than
they do other teams. But then, you know, the Sixers
(05:15):
have a long history of doing some funky stuff with
injury that I can't ignore even though I want to.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You had a man, where do I want to take this?
I have two questions that are really really important for
me to ask. Let's start with Chris Paul Yes, obviously, yeah. Yeah.
So CP three, who announced his retirement this year, has
been one of the most important figures in basketball over
the last twenty years, probably the best point guard second
to Steph Curry of his generation. Getting cut essentially in
(05:47):
your retirement season is something that I've never quite seen before.
Somebody of this stature. Does this reinforce the idea that
athletes should be more self induolseed and prioritize self over
team success and loyalty.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I mean, there's a couple of ways to look at it.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
The first thing is the Clippers are a terribly run
organization and they have been for a very long time,
with very few moments of interruption.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
In that and the moments where they were not.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Terrible, it's because Chris Paul was carrying them on their
back along with Blake Griffin and other guys. They were
well coached. They had some other things going on. So
the fact that they were cut.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait, Doc Rivers is a good coach,
and I just want to hear you get on record.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Sorry, Uh, they were well coached, is what I'll say.
I do think Doc Rivers is a good coach. We'll
have a different we dont have a Doc Rivers conversation
in a second. But when you talk about the Clippers,
they're a poorly run organization. So of course when you
see something like this happen, the Lakers would never do this, right,
you got to say Chris Paul deserves better. But I'm
(06:44):
also going to say something else, And I love Chris Paul.
It's like a living color, right, It's like, that's my man.
Don't nobody better say nothing about Chris Paul. Chris Paul
wears on people. Chris Paul is intense. Chris Paul is
right now demanding excellence, and that might be what he
(07:05):
should do, but.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
This team ain't built for that. So it is a mismatch.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Chris Paul on the court and his prolem was one
of the greatest trolls of all time. One of the
reasons I love him right. He's tough, he don't take
no shit, He'll fight back. He'll also get you out
of your mindset. That works in a winning situation. But
if the team is apathetic and Chris Paul is standing
out there and he standing next to Tyron lu and
he's saying I know much about basketball as you do,
(07:30):
and the reports I'm hearing behind the scenes is that
there's a lot of there's a lot of tension between
between those two. And if you don't respect the leadership
and you're speaking out at a moment where it ain't
winning time, it can.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Be an ugly fit.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't think he should have found out through the
mail effectively.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I don't think he should have found out the way
he found out. Now.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Other reports have said that they came and flew to
him and had the conversation with him in person.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I've heard different accounts.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But whatever it is, if this is your farewell season
from the team that you put on your back, they
might have to eat some crow and just let you ride.
It out, even if you are paying in the ass.
But one more piece to this, and this is the
piece to where I'll throw them a little bit of bell.
They're putting them in a position to maybe have a
successful final season.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
He can go anywhere now, okay see, So.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Okay see is where I would like to see him
go because that's his best chance of winning a championship. However,
one that almost never works. Tmack did that the Spur.
It seems like that be the year they don't win.
But also, okay see has a real rotation. They have
a team that doesn't need anything, and to add somebody
who's who that can't who doesn't have he can't make
(08:38):
them better, but he can't extend some minutes. He can
give people a couple of days off. I don't know
if that's how he wants to win a championship. I
don't know if that's how he wants to finish his
career playing you know, six minutes tonight, you.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I watch Kyle Lowry do that for the Sixers. I
don't know if that if that's the kind of way
he wants to end his career. Would he rather do
that or would he rather compete for a championship in
a real way in a place like La Lakers, or
or I mean they might be getting somebody else soon
to or come east and put in some real minutes
on the team.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Houston, they need a point guard desperately.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
They do. Would you do that? Or would you?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
But let's just say hypothetically Giannis makes it to the Knicks,
which seems like more and more likely. Do you want
to be the backup or even third string point guard
on that next team and really compete at least at least.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Get to the finals. No.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I think Duce McBride is a better player today than
Chris Paul as a boys.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
He is. But again, you could be like Gary Payton
in Miami. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You might be the third string point guard. You just
might want to be on the I'm saying at least
you could play. I don't I don't know, Okay, See,
I don't know if he plays. I don't know what
y'all think, but I don't know if he plays in Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
See.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
On the Joe Budden Podcast, you also have Pablo Tory
come on and kind of talk about his revelation with
with the Clippers. Findings surrounding Kawhi Leonard and kal Kale
to aspire. What was the biggest takeaway from your conversation
with Pablo Tory regarding uh that entire debacle.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
There's a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Right one, By the way, people have very different takeaways
from that interview that I did. There were people, some
of my co hosts, who told me off the record,
I think off the record, Yeah, I say off the records.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I don't think they said on the record.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Like they don't Puck Pavlo like he's a rat. They
think he's operating bad faith. They think he I mean,
there's a lot of people who don't see him as
the brave, courageous journalists, you know, you know, unpacking and
exposing corruption in the league, like some people see him
like somebody Now, I do see him that way.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I see him as doing a good job. I don't
assign any character, good or bad to it. I think
he did a good job figuring his mystery out. I
think that he doesn't have a duty to expose everybody
in the league. If you find one, you find one, right.
I don't think the Clippers are the only team doing it.
But they only ones that got caught right, so at
(10:57):
this level, and I'm okay with him unpacking it. What
I learned from the interview was just how brazen they
were and just how stupid they were. On Twitter, I
watched the kind of back and forth between Mark Cuban
and and and and Pablo Tori, and I was like, Okay, okay,
I see that, Okay, maybe saying maybe saying so bad.
(11:17):
But then when I actually looked and saw like the
emails and the names of the accounts and all of me,
I was like, y'all, this is you literally working out
with a smoking gun, Like you're literally just walking around
after after murder just would have gun smoking.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
It's like, what are y'all doing?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But that's the arrogance of of of of say it
rich white men, you know, because it's not just billionaire,
You're right, it's it's a particular kind of billionaire.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
They tend to be. They tend to be white men,
and who would have never you know what I'm saying.
And so I got I gotta agree with you on that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So yeah, it was it was It was fun to
watch uh and it was a great conversation to have
with him.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
On the list of things.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I'm outraged by sports, it wouldn't make my top five.
But I do understand if I am a small market team, uh,
because everybody got money now. But if I'm a small
market team and I don't have the ability to attract
the free agent through these extracurricular activities in the same way,
not because I ain't got the money, but because I
don't have the same.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Things to offer me.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You can just offer more in New York or or
la or where rich people go, like Miami, like you
can offer you know, levels of things that you can't
offer if you were in Indiana.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Nobody ever signs in Miami. Where are you at, by
the way, it's our basil. I'm in Miami playing tennis
and off the grid. You have you own a house
in South Oronge right where the property taxes? Like that.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I actually rent a room in South Orange. This is
the only This is the room that I rent. My
family and I live in this room. It's it's a
cozy room, especially with all of us here.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Okay, I'm a chill yo, you do. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Right when you cash your arms like that to shine
the glimmer from your watch kind of blinded me for
a minute.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
So can you can you do me a favor? And
the level of wealth that's coming from.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I'm seeing a lot of original black art back there.
Those aren't prints. That's uh, that's really powerful.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
To see them all.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's good to see.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What do you talk about? Got some Canal Street? These
are posters?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh okay, I thought you were like the French stealing
black art.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
No, no, no, my middle y Lamont. But it's it's
it's just as we got a little off track there.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
But Mark, do you feel like there needs to be
some punishment for the clippers and if so, what should
the punishment look like?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
First, I mean there has to be accountability here, because
I mean they colored outside the lines. And again, I
mean you could argue, like you know what's like like
there's a natural consequence, like they cheated and got Paul
George and Kawhi Leonard. I mean like they already lost.
Like I don't know how many nat how much more
punishment they need. But I think that the normal punishment
(13:55):
in a situation like this to me is draft picks
and money.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That to me would be reasonable.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Uh you know if it was college you say, oh,
you can't play in the tournament for few years. But
you can't tell a team they can't play in the
playoffs because it creates me other logistical challenges.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
So they ain't making that nowhere.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's what I'm saying. Natural, what do you? What do you?
What do you give the man who has everything? Right?
What do you? What do you? How do you push
the team that has nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like all you can do is is take their draft
picks away.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
They don't even have those though they lost those of
Okac in that trade.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It's just like, that's what I'm saying, Like, I don't
feel pity for the Clippers. It's just they're going like
they did like host it. They did it to themselves,
Like I mean they had SJ.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And Drake gave them away. I mean, like they're never
gonna win.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, they should make them play. That's that should be.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I didn't hear you.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
They should make them play a season in Philadelphia. I
think that would really.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I really showed them Philadelphia's come on to come up.
We're fine, We're fine.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Let's get into the gambling debacle because that took the
sports world by storm. That was like the craziest thing.
Did it shock you though? That the people that are
at the forefront are at the forefront where other people
are not being named.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, like, first of all, the purp Walks is all
gonna be the black people.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Rahiem Jenkins, you know, Michael Robinson, so and so, so
and so. Name them their faces, their yearbook pictures. They're
tied to Russian gangsters, Italian mobsters. They get real generic
when they talk about the organized crime films that are
actually powering this. But when they get the people who
are in the front line, you know, talking into the
lapel and the poker table, suddenly they want to say
everybody's whole name, they dated, birthday, social That's just the norm. Unfortunately,
(15:47):
I'm not surprised the particular players that got named. I
mean some of them I had heard things about. Some
of them I knew were gamblers, so I wasn't stunned.
I think, what's more shocking and I can't say it
just because I can't, But there's a couple more names
are gonna come out, that are going to come out
in the next two weeks. Then I think you're gonna be like,
oh oh, and I think that's what's gonna that's what's
gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Mm hmmm, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
You gotta you gotta follow Mario just because. Question to
ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Okay, do you feel has your experience as a sports.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Fan change since gambling has become so mainstream and normal.
That's a great question.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
A little bit because you I feel like I'm questioning
more or if something happens, like if it's an egregious drop,
I'm like, hm, right, right, you know what I mean, Like,
if it's something that happened like Rodney and I talked
about this a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Was who was that? Was that? James Harden who like
and nothing?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
You start to question what's going on?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You know?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So, yes, it kind of has changed.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I wrote around conspiracy theory and conspiracy theorists and so.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Hold on Samaria for the record, he grew up a
part of as a part of a cult.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I have heard this story on conspiracy theorists.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yes, oh Jesu is right. We all just spread and
we make them right. So I'm not against conspiracies. I
tend to have a healthy suspicion of them because I
think I think sometimes the truth is less interesting but
more likely, But when it.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Comes to gambling.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I believe a lot of the suspicions, you know, I
believe a lot of the conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists,
not all of them. Like, do I think, is it
possible James Harden just couldn't put up one more point
in a second half? Sure, only because it's such an
absurd like he needed twenty two we had twenty one
in the first first half. He doesn't score another point
(18:01):
in a second half of basketball, and he's one of
the greatest offensive weapons in the history of basketball.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I get out it's funny looking. But it's so funny looking.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
At You're like, he wouldn't do that because it'd be
too obvious. I think it's just one of those things
unfortunate that unfortunately happens. But I could be persuaded otherwise,
to be clear, But that wouldn't be my first instinct.
But when I see so many guys not so many,
When I see a significant number, though a noteworthy number
of people, you know, the turnovers, the late pulling themselves
(18:32):
out of the game, late with mysterious injuries or phantom injuries,
it's like.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I'm starting to lose some of my faith in the game.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's just like when the refs were cheating, and again
it wasn't a lot of them, right, But it only
takes one. It only take one donagy to be like, oh,
you know, are they all doing this?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It only takes four or five players.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And and the thing about basketball is one player can
affect the game so much. And then when you talk
about prop bets, forget the line, because the line is
a whole other thing, right, But when you talk about
prop bets, all you need is one guy. I almost
wish we could reduce the and.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I'm not saying it's possible, and I don't know a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
About gambling, but I almost wish we could reduce it
to like one or two players on each team, something
where it just limits the ability of Like I'm using
Kelly Uber only because you mentioned him, and my wife
is a crush on him, you know, so you know, yes,
that's why I'm hating on Kelly Uber the record, everybody's
(19:35):
wife is a crush with Kelly Uber. But but but like, yeah,
like if you say Kelly Uber is going is going
to make five threes and he's four for four and
doesn't fire one up, I have a lot less faith
in him. I trust the tyrese Max he's not going
to do that, that he's not going to take or
not take a shot to cover a prop bet. I
(19:56):
trust that Lebron James won't and so forth and so on.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
But when you get to the third or fourth or
fifth best player.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
On the team, probably just because how much money they made,
you know what I mean, I feel, and how much
more susceptible they could be to this, I start to worry.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I know that's not the solution.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
This is just me saying I'm desperate for a solution,
and I don't know if there is one, but I'm
desperate for one so that we don't have to do this,
you know what I mean. I'm not a gambler, so
maybe if I was a gambler, I feel differently about it.
But also for me as a fan, I don't gamble.
Partly I know enough about basketball and gamble on it.
(20:33):
The problem is, when I'm watching the Sixers, the only
thing I want to see is the Sixers win. And
if I got ten thousand dollars riding on the other
guy making one more three and and we're up to
with ten seconds left, I don't want to be rooting
against the Sixers because I don't want to lose my money.
But I also don't want to lose my money, so
I don't want to put myself in that position. And
(20:53):
I think prop bets in particular can put you in
weird positions as a fan. And I watch sport at
this point in my life just for the for the fandom,
just for the fun of it, not to it's not
it's not a financial enterprise for me.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
That's uh, that's an antiquated approach to sports these days.
It's all about it's all about gamla for a lot
of people. I want to I want to talk about
something that I heard you say actually today. Uh you
said that today's NBA athletes are mentally softer than athletes
of the past. Do you think there's any correlation? You
did you said it on the pod because you were
talking about the fragility of athletes not being able to
(21:28):
handle fans talking. Uh oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, yea yeah, yes, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So do you think there's any correlation between that softness
that you were talking about in basketball now being an
upper middle class sport.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I'm trying to avoid making a light skin joke, so I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Thank you for stopping colorism in our community.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Brother.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
That's an interesting question. I hadn't thought about that before.
It's a wonderful question. It's a wonderful implicit point you're
making right as these players get more middle class, partly
because it's more second generation players, also because basketball has
become so you know, yeah, it's money driven from the beginning.
(22:16):
You need money to play in a way that we
when we played Aau and Sunny Hill and all this
other st we just went out, we went outside, we played.
If you were good enough, you got put on the
team and that was it. Now these kids got trainers.
Like my son is three and a half and I'm
already like once he hit six. Yeah, you know, I'm
getting Doc Rivers.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So you want him to not make it to the league.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Got it? Austin Rivers was pretty good.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
We're not gonna do This're a hater.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Austin Rivers was a monster. He was.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But Doc wasn't there for that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Boy. You know that it's been It wasn't Doc.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Doc was living in la His son was living in Florida.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Let's let's keep it a buck.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So you think the fact that Doc Rivers one of
the NBA greats of his generation. Great point guard, not elite,
but great point guard have of a sudden that becomes
all American, the best kid in high school, an elite
player at Duke, and it makes the NBA.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
You think that's just because who do you think did that?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
So man, the police, let's not focus on doctor.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
The d n A.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
D n A does matter. But there are also some
people who daddy wasn't and they ended up being all
time legends. So you know, it's exactly it was his
dad was.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It was in the league, actually, but I'm sure I thought,
you like, they wasn't around, like they were bad fins.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
No, I meant athletically, like they had let me.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I mean's dad was a monster. So it was the
way waste, not even a different way.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, But I don't want to I don't want to
fixate on doc purpose, but I just, you know, I
just wonder sometimes because I know that basketball has changed
so much culturally, you know, like you said, it's a
very expensive sport to play now, it's almost it's almost
like golf and tennis in some regards. You know, does
that change the kind of the kind of people that play.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
A conspiracy theorist would say also that many of the
children are the children of NBA players and other pros
who played overseas who birth children with white women and
made these extremely light skinned children.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But I have a theory though, fat white women make
good black athletes.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Oh, we gotta cancel my next meeting.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We got we got to walk.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I have a theory on this.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, this this tracks right because so often when when
you think about black athletes that get attracted to the
white mid smarious. I don't you don't You don't have
to weigh in on this because I don't want you
to be held accountable for this absurdity. But again, these
are just conspiracy theories that are being floated. It's not
my position nor rioties. We're just floating the ideas that
are being floated.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I saw somebody say I think on TikTok that that
the baddies, that the I G baddies aren't creating athletes either.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
No, I don't know. Well know in sixteen years, oh,
he said, Well, No, one's sixteen.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
We find out the Eagles have lost back to back games.
This is the second time that's happened this year. They're
eight and four they're not horrible, but Philly fans are
like they so much so they're so mad that they
egged the OC's house. Who do you feel like it
is culpable for their struggles? And do you think it's
a J Brown in his antics?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So it'll be prefaces by saying I have intentionally stopped
watching football so sincerely, But why after Colin Kaepernick?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I just never went back.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Oh okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
We don't even have to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
No, no, it's okay, but but you raised I can't so
I can't get to the x's and o's of it.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
But what I can tell you is.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
One I want to speak to the fans egging the
offensive coordinator's house. I don't think I'm felt this proud
as a Philadelphia in a long time to hear that.
That's exciting just from a fan perspective, Like I remember
when we lost the World Series to the Toronto Blue
Jays and Mitch Williams, Mitch wild Thing Williams gave up
(26:15):
that that home run to Joe Carter in the ninth inning.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And we went to his house. Yeah, what why is everybody? See?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
This is the problem with you outsiders? You don't understand
our life, you don't understand our ways, and y'all.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Both looked at me with the craziest look like that.
It was weird. The Eagles, you know, first.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Of all, the Philadelphia is very much what have you
done for me this week?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Town?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And the amount of grace that the city has given
them is actually extraordinary. Part of that is because of
the Super Bowl last year. But remember, uh, you started
off like eight no, noine, no whatever. Was that an
extraordinary record two years ago and then then just plummeted
at the end of the season. There are people who
are fearing that that's what's about to happen again. So
(27:05):
there's that fear that's building up. The offense is where
the problem seems to be. Very clearly. A lot of
people are starting again. Jalen Hurt's got a whole lot
of support. Now people are saying, well, hey, wait a minute,
maybe Cam Newton wasn't all the way off, maybe he's
not the elite, top five, top six quarterback that people
think is. I don't know enough about football to make
a passionate case, but it does seem like they're underperforming.
(27:28):
Losing to the Bears isn't the worst thing. But you know,
and you know NFC East, you know rivalries. Those games
are always close, no matter no matter how good or
how bad a team is, Every NFC East game is
gonna be tough.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
So losing to Dallas you might not feel.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So you can explain away losses, but you can't explain
away is how the offense keeps stalling in the clutch.
So if they lose another one, somebody's getting fired. And
if we don't make it to the NFC Championship game,
the head coach is getting fired.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I can tell you that for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Wow, they wanted to fire him before. I do have
another football question Watch football, but it's not it's about
It's about the Russell Wilson. We talked about this earlier,
this time in Trayvon Boyken. Do you feel like why
why do you feel like Russell is always like the
butt of jokes and people are so comfortable.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I think there's a few reasons I think that's like
he is. I mean, I just want Mark.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I think reason number one is people are, particularly in
this hyper masculine context, uneasy with somebody who doesn't perform
hyper masculine in a certain kind of way, who articulates
values that are not foreign to us at all, but
that don't get necessarily talked about publicly in the same way.
(28:47):
So he's talking about family and children and God and
all these things that don't get talked about a lot.
And so there's a way that people are very much
like I don't know, and you know, watching the nice
guy the square win is not what people want to see,
not in this world. Then the reason number two is
he deserves it, right. Every teammate, lots of teammates say
(29:16):
he's a And there is a way. It's sometimes sometimes
sometimes that people who perform the moral morality end up
looking like they're just taking them all high grind in that,
like they're morally stutting on everybody like I'm better than you.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And there's a subtlety to that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Like Reggie White back in the day talked about God
and all that stuff, but it never felt like he
thought he was better than you, felt like he was
almost ministering to the world, except for that moment where
he left the Eagles went to Green Band said God
told him to.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Take the money. Rest in peace for that guy.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
But when we talk about we don't it's up forever
in Philadelphia understand that, but I never felt like that
with him.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I don't feel like that was Steph Curry, who.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Talks about faith, in love and family and some I
don't feel like he's talking down to the ministerings. But
there are people who feel like Russell Wilson does that.
I haven't experienced that with Russell Wilson, but I don't
watch eno football to say if that's if their concerns
are legitimate or not.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
But I know people feel that way.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
But the idea of him and his prime being you know,
separated from teammates, having his own office, you know that,
you know, being disconnected, not doing the.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Team's stuff, Now some of that is a little bit
of race.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Is a little bit of race too, because quarterbacks are
known for being a little bit distant and being a
little bit above the fray and acting like they're better
than folking because it's they feel like it's their team.
And I suspect that if Tom Brady were doing all
the things that Russell West Russell Wilson were doing, we
wouldn't have the exact same response. If Brady would do
that in his prime, but he may have been we
wouldn't know, so so I think it's a couple of things,
(30:43):
and I think too often it becomes a you all
just hate him because he's a nice guy, and everybody's like, no,
that guy, he's an ass and it's like, no family,
we can come together knowing that it's both.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
He just doesn't feel culturally aligned, which I think makes
some easy target. It's one thing that you know, yeah,
we recognize that you are black, but you're black in
a different way. That doesn't feel comfortable, and I think
that's the part of the problem. I got a couple
more questions, and I kind of want to do a
bit of a bit of a Z way situation here,
right like I won't I won't go too far left,
but we just love a couple of short, concise answers
(31:15):
for these questions. If you're mine, okay, Uh, do you
think that athletes should be allowed to use HGH for recovery?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Absolutely? Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You played on one of the worst pick up basketball
games of all time. At what point will you stop
living in yesteryear and pick up a more age appropriate sport. Uh?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
My pickleball racket is around here somewhere. Okay, But I
have that was I have retired from basketball. Okay, gratulation.
I focused on pickleball, golf and some little martial arts.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Thank you, we appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
The Joe Budden Podcast has a new member in Mona Love.
What mid season NBA acquisition would you compare her signing to?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Uh? Rushie Wallace in Detroit?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Slim dunk right there?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
What is one thing that you wish all black men
could experience at least once in their lifetime?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Every joke I had, was it appropriated white women? I'm kidding, No,
that wasn't one of them, Rodney. Now all of us
are on South Beach to answer your question, what is
one thing.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Good love?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Do you think we as a community over complicate love
and relationships?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
No, we under complicated.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
If you marry someone and they pass away, and then
you remarry and then that person passes away, assuming that
you had nothing to do with either deaths, who should
get first DIBs on you in the afterlife?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Why do we? Why can't we all be together?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
You're a sick, nasty man.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
You got imick one? Those are? I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I just had some, But but I wouldn't remarry if
I if my wife passed away, I wouldn't remarry season season. No,
I meant that the laws would be so devastating that
I couldn't find another partner.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
You google Samaria.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
If you believe that, then as a fact, that's bad.
That's a fact. That's a fact. All right, Well, but
we'll talk about Rihanna later. Go ahead. Now, we appreciate you, man.
It's always it's always a privilege. D you know, can
(33:40):
I plug something before we go? No? Please? Please?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I know you're gonna ask me a Brian McKnight question.
That's actually what I thought you were going to ask me.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I started too. Then I was like, because you've interviewed
as kids, that's a different level. This is your entering
Cameron and uh Cuba Gooding, Omar Gooding Junior.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
See now I said, it's not y oh ma, you
see that? Get them bars ready? He probably got a
hot sixteen for every every podcast already.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah I did that.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah, you're entering can serritory your pettiness.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
But I wasn't being the funniest. I wasn't trying to
be petty.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Why did you interview his kids? Why did you interview
that man's kids?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Because you see me saying like when you asked the
question like that and said, you set me up to
only seeing petty.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
They they deserve to be heard. Yeah, they deserve to
be heard.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
If if if Brian McKnight says, Malcolm my Hill is
a piece of that guy, and I know that he's
like a bad parent. Hypothetically, I don't go find his kids.
But Brian mknight went on a public tour talking about
his kids. He brought his kids into the public and
(34:49):
then he did an interview talking about talking about his
kids where he mentioned me so. The reason I responded
to him at all was because he mentioned he mentioned
me so, and I still want to bring up Joe
ass So I was like, oh, I got to answer it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It's Joe's the boss.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
But then somebody reach out to me and said, this
kid is his ex wife and his kids his son. Brian,
the original Brian Jr. Wanted to be heard and so smarty,
you don't laugh at that. I mean, I get the
absurdity of having two juniors unjunior in your kid is
(35:23):
like crazy work. Like I didn't even know something you
could do. I didn't even that wasn't that I didn't
even know that was in the rules. But none of
my business again, but he gave a public stage. He
went on a public stage that millions of people have
seen now through clips and said this is but my kids.
And so the kids are like, well, can we say
(35:43):
something back and so for me? And they asked, so
do I say no. I'm not going to do what
he does. I'm not going to say no to his kids.
I'm not going to close the door on his kids.
I said, come on through. I'm happy to make the
sacrifice because me, Rodney, it's about healing, it's about coming
(36:05):
together as a community. It's about being in a better
place than we started.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Are you ready to be the new Shannon Sharp?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
That could mean a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Not in the sense of sleeping with nineteen year old
white girls. I'm talking about from the standpoint of people
wanting to come to you to continue the mess.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I don't want to ever be involved in mess. One
thing I don't do is mess. What I do want
to be a part of is healthy dialogue. As it
I only want to be a part of a healthy dialogue.
I really and all jokes is that I sincerely believe.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
And I have you watched an interview, I didn't get
a chance to watch it.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yet I have you subscribed to my Patreon? No?
Speaker 3 (36:46):
You know what, you didn't text me back the last time,
and I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I hope I did need to change the wrong number. No.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
I texted you because I was trying to be suggestive
and supportive and I thought that I could then and
I didn't get a response back, so I didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
You know, had you subscribed to my patrion, then you
didn't see the interview because you didn'ts subscribe to my
patriot But if you do.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
It was an hour and a half interview, and a
lot of it was about how.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Can we make this work, how can we heal you,
how can you two come together, how can we facilitate that?
Speaker 1 (37:14):
What do you need it?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
It was mostly that, you know, the little bits and
pieces that might hit the internet, which I clipped up
and put on the internet. Just a small part of it,
but that's what you got to do to get people
to watch it. I get it, you know, But and
they were true and they needed to be said, you
know what I mean. I didn't take anything out of context,
but there's so much more to it. And I also
(37:37):
reach out to Brian Senior.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
And I hope he and I can come together and talk.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I have an idea. Okay, Brian McKnight, and I know
this from personal experience, is a phenomenal basketball player or
was at one point?
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Would did he?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
So maybe you can now compete with him because he
was actually pretty good at Elie Fitness in LA. Would
you be interested in playing him one on one to
resolve your issue?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Perhaps he started to like love basketball, start missing layups,
kicking it off his foot. Hey, man, while we wrap
this up because we were severely of course, Oh god,
(38:30):
you started this, man, So I'm forgiving for being extra silly.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I haven't ever slept in a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Man, Yeah, me either, man either.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Everybody, make sure you make you check out my Patreon.
I launched the patreon, uh for two reasons. One, I
wanted to give the fans, the audience, the community, all
these different all these different spaces, more stuff, more access,
and so. On my Patreon, you can find classic material
(38:59):
that's nowhere else for me. Interviews that I've done, for example,
I just I put one of I think one of
the last two interviews that.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Prodigy did before he passed away.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I put up there for example, just as one example,
an interview did with President Jimmy Carter where we talked
about scripture and he said, you know that he thought
Jesus woul support gay marriage, and he unpacked that force.
So the idea is to give everybody who supports my
work more stuff. But the other piece of it is
to support independent media, independent content makers. You know, when
(39:29):
I got fired from CNN, I sort of decided that
I never want to be in that corporate media world.
In the same way again, I didn't want to be
that dependent on somebody else. I didn't want my ability
to say something to depend on somebody in some office
telling me that I can.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
And so I decided that we ain't got to do
that no more. Let's make our own stuff, Let's have
our own platforms, let's have our own spaces. And that's
what I do. But we go to corporate mediacause they
give us a jack.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
So if we support the journalists, if we support the
media maker, if we support the content, and then they
don't have to do that. So the Patreon is for
people who want me to remain an independent voice, an
unbought and unbossed voice, as Shirley Chisholm said, that's the goal.
So if people can go to patreon dot com slash
MARKO Minhill Official. Just go to Patreon, you can find me.
I would appreciate if they could joined as a supporter
(40:16):
or above, because it allows me to keep doing this
work in the ways that I have been for the
last twenty years.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Also, make sure y'all check you out Mark's bookstore in Philly,
Uncle Bobby's. You know you want to also support all
the businesses that continue to allow him to to afford
the property taxes in South Orange really important.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Four hundreds a month for this room, my rent. That's it.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Mark, Thank you so much for coming on with us.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
We gotta do this again.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
I would do this when if you're going to be here,
Jam you know, because you give professionalism and care and
knowledge and insight that is unmatched on any platform, including
your own. I'll be here. I appreciate what you do.
Thank you for being you. Seriously, I mean even your background.
Look at your background. Look at his I'm in a
(41:02):
hotel room, journalist. He looks like he's drying out from
a binge.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Like yo, yo, words, I gotta I can't even come back.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Yeah, we're out of here.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Man
A conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Theorist would say also that many of the children in
the league are the children of NBA players and other
pros who played overseas, who birth children with white women
and made these extremely light skinned children.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
But I have a theory though, fat white women make
good black athletes.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, we gotta cancel my next meeting.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We got to talk.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
We have a very very special guest on the show
with us today. If he's a scholar, author, activist and
media personality, please welcome the one and only doctor Mark
Lamont Hill too.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good brother, Shaloon shaloon.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Man. What size is that T shirt? Man? Extra medium?
You know what's funny is I was about to change.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I was running from my Manny petty, you know what,
I mean to make this on time, and I was
gonna change, but I said, you know what, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I mean they won't make it a place of love.
It's a safe space.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Now you look good, man, you look well groomed. The
beard is doing immaculate things. I'm happy for your aesthetic.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Man. It's great man. I'm just happy. It's the gray
is coming in.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I see that working with Joe was stressing you out, man?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I was.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I was gonna say it was the Sixers, but you
know what, let's get into that out the gate. I
think the Sixers are in a really interesting spot. I
love dj Edgecomb, obviously, you love Maxi, I love Kelly Oubre.
You got a lot of good young talent on the wing,
except you have these two old dinosaurs who are clogging
the books, and Paul George and Joel Embiid. What is
(01:36):
the strategy for your team going forward?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Man, Well, you and I might disagree on that Kelly
Uber thing, but the bigger issue is it's not him. Obviously,
he's playing well this year. He's playing really well this year.
It's figuring out a plan for Joel Embiid and for
Paul George. Two years ago, I thought the Sixers needed
to make a decision with Joel Andbid, and I thought
(01:59):
the best at that moment, given health issues, was probably
the trade him.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I love Joel and Beat. I'm a huge fan of
Joel and Beat.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I just didn't know how many miles he had left,
and it seemed to me that it's better to sell high.
But they extended the contract and they kept going he
hasn't played a whole lot of basketball since. And it's
not because he doesn't want to. He's not lazy, he's not.
His body's just failing him, you know. And so you know,
the idea was, if we can get one healthy season,
and we can get and we can get Paul George here,
(02:27):
we have a legitimate shot to get to the finals.
That was the logic last year. Wasn't a terrible idea.
If you're going to go all in, that's how you
do it right. Suddenly you have a solid team, you
have a really strong start in five, you can switch
everywhere defensively, you got a lot of offensive weapons, but
neither of them played a whole lot of basketball. And
it seemed to me, particularly with the Paul George piece,
(02:49):
that once we started losing, he didn't have the motivation
to come back.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So there was no urgency from that team.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
This year optimistic again, four and zero, looking good, feeling good, team,
look good. But the thing that was interesting was we
were playing much better basketball when some guys were off
the floor, and that's always a red flag to me.
So now the dilemma you have is you got a
guy who's injured who makes more money than God, you're
not gonna get him in the trade, not for another
(03:16):
two years when it's you know, a fading contract. So
you kind of got to ride it out and kind
of build around and hope that you get lucky in
the draft. I hope you get lucky with a with
a a kind of diamond in the rough. And when
JoJo's on the floor, he also has to play a
different kind of basketball than he's probably played the last
few years.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
It looks bad. It looks bad for him right now.
I ain't gonna lie that.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You know, I watched that leg legs again.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
He's lumbering, and it's making them defensively, it's making them
much you know, I don't say liability, but he's not.
But there's no room protection like before. You know, he's
not able to recover. Every time he runs it down
the floor. I get worried for him. So that's a challenge.
You know, we have a backup, you know, who's athletic
and young. That helps, but it's hard to deny his
(04:01):
offensive gifts. So when he's on the floor, you got
to play. But now there's the question about whose team
it is, and I hate that to be the question.
It's not a question for people watching, but it's a
question when he's on the floor and.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Y'all aren't being honest about reporting his injuries. I saw
that y'all just got fined one hundred thousand dollars because
y'all said that MB was going to be out and
then he played.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So there's two things happening right One is the league
is just on everybody's can we say everybody's asked right now?
Because of all the gambling suspicions, you know, one of
the things that's come up is when do you report injuries?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
At what time do you report injuries? When do you
upgrade somebody?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
When you downgrade somebody because there were you know, so
they want to be above board. So I think people
are just paying more attention to what's happening with these
reported reports than before. It's not that anything different is happening.
A lot of times guys think they're going to play
and they don't.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
We're used to that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But when a guy when they said guys doubtful, you know,
like today, they upgraded them for the for the Warriors
game about about five minutes before we recorded it. I mean,
I think he just feels better, and it's a national
game against the Warriors, you know, and he likes that
kind of stuff. So I think part of a lot
of it is just people giving us more scrutiny than
they do other teams. But then, you know, the Sixers
(05:15):
have a long history of doing some funky stuff with
injury that I can't ignore even though I want to.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You had a man, where do I want to take this?
I have two questions that are really really important for
me to ask. Let's start with Chris Paul Yes, obviously, yeah. Yeah.
So CP three, who announced his retirement this year, has
been one of the most important figures in basketball over
the last twenty years, probably the best point guard second
to Steph Curry of his generation. Getting cut essentially in
(05:47):
your retirement season is something that I've never quite seen before.
Somebody of this stature. Does this reinforce the idea that
athletes should be more self induolseed and prioritize self over
team success and loyalty.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I mean, there's a couple of ways to look at it.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
The first thing is the Clippers are a terribly run
organization and they have been for a very long time,
with very few moments of interruption.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
In that and the moments where they were not.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Terrible, it's because Chris Paul was carrying them on their
back along with Blake Griffin and other guys. They were
well coached. They had some other things going on. So
the fact that they were cut.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait, Doc Rivers is a good coach,
and I just want to hear you get on record.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Sorry, Uh, they were well coached, is what I'll say.
I do think Doc Rivers is a good coach. We'll
have a different we dont have a Doc Rivers conversation
in a second. But when you talk about the Clippers,
they're a poorly run organization. So of course when you
see something like this happen, the Lakers would never do this, right,
you got to say Chris Paul deserves better. But I'm
(06:44):
also going to say something else, And I love Chris Paul.
It's like a living color, right, It's like, that's my man.
Don't nobody better say nothing about Chris Paul. Chris Paul
wears on people. Chris Paul is intense. Chris Paul is
right now demanding excellence, and that might be what he
(07:05):
should do, but.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
This team ain't built for that. So it is a mismatch.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Chris Paul on the court and his prolem was one
of the greatest trolls of all time. One of the
reasons I love him right. He's tough, he don't take
no shit, He'll fight back. He'll also get you out
of your mindset. That works in a winning situation. But
if the team is apathetic and Chris Paul is standing
out there and he standing next to Tyron lu and
he's saying I know much about basketball as you do,
(07:30):
and the reports I'm hearing behind the scenes is that
there's a lot of there's a lot of tension between
between those two. And if you don't respect the leadership
and you're speaking out at a moment where it ain't
winning time, it can.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Be an ugly fit.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't think he should have found out through the
mail effectively.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I don't think he should have found out the way
he found out. Now.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Other reports have said that they came and flew to
him and had the conversation with him in person.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I've heard different accounts.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But whatever it is, if this is your farewell season
from the team that you put on your back, they
might have to eat some crow and just let you ride.
It out, even if you are paying in the ass.
But one more piece to this, and this is the
piece to where I'll throw them a little bit of bell.
They're putting them in a position to maybe have a
successful final season.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
He can go anywhere now, okay see, So.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Okay see is where I would like to see him
go because that's his best chance of winning a championship. However,
one that almost never works. Tmack did that the Spur.
It seems like that be the year they don't win.
But also, okay see has a real rotation. They have
a team that doesn't need anything, and to add somebody
who's who that can't who doesn't have he can't make
(08:38):
them better, but he can't extend some minutes. He can
give people a couple of days off. I don't know
if that's how he wants to win a championship. I
don't know if that's how he wants to finish his
career playing you know, six minutes tonight, you.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I watch Kyle Lowry do that for the Sixers. I
don't know if that if that's the kind of way
he wants to end his career. Would he rather do
that or would he rather compete for a championship in
a real way in a place like La Lakers, or
or I mean they might be getting somebody else soon
to or come east and put in some real minutes
on the team.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Houston, they need a point guard desperately.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
They do. Would you do that? Or would you?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
But let's just say hypothetically Giannis makes it to the Knicks,
which seems like more and more likely. Do you want
to be the backup or even third string point guard
on that next team and really compete at least at least.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Get to the finals. No.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I think Duce McBride is a better player today than
Chris Paul as a boys.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
He is. But again, you could be like Gary Payton
in Miami. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You might be the third string point guard. You just
might want to be on the I'm saying at least
you could play. I don't I don't know, Okay, See,
I don't know if he plays. I don't know what
y'all think, but I don't know if he plays in Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
See.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
On the Joe Budden Podcast, you also have Pablo Tory
come on and kind of talk about his revelation with
with the Clippers. Findings surrounding Kawhi Leonard and kal Kale
to aspire. What was the biggest takeaway from your conversation
with Pablo Tory regarding uh that entire debacle.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
There's a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Right one, By the way, people have very different takeaways
from that interview that I did. There were people, some
of my co hosts, who told me off the record,
I think off the record, Yeah, I say off the records.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I don't think they said on the record.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Like they don't Puck Pavlo like he's a rat. They
think he's operating bad faith. They think he I mean,
there's a lot of people who don't see him as
the brave, courageous journalists, you know, you know, unpacking and
exposing corruption in the league, like some people see him
like somebody Now, I do see him that way.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I see him as doing a good job. I don't
assign any character, good or bad to it. I think
he did a good job figuring his mystery out. I
think that he doesn't have a duty to expose everybody
in the league. If you find one, you find one, right.
I don't think the Clippers are the only team doing it.
But they only ones that got caught right, so at
(10:57):
this level, and I'm okay with him unpacking it. What
I learned from the interview was just how brazen they
were and just how stupid they were. On Twitter, I
watched the kind of back and forth between Mark Cuban
and and and and Pablo Tori, and I was like, Okay, okay,
I see that, Okay, maybe saying maybe saying so bad.
(11:17):
But then when I actually looked and saw like the
emails and the names of the accounts and all of me,
I was like, y'all, this is you literally working out
with a smoking gun, Like you're literally just walking around
after after murder just would have gun smoking.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
It's like, what are y'all doing?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But that's the arrogance of of of of say it
rich white men, you know, because it's not just billionaire,
You're right, it's it's a particular kind of billionaire.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
They tend to be. They tend to be white men,
and who would have never you know what I'm saying.
And so I got I gotta agree with you on that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So yeah, it was it was It was fun to
watch uh and it was a great conversation to have
with him.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
On the list of things.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I'm outraged by sports, it wouldn't make my top five.
But I do understand if I am a small market team, uh,
because everybody got money now. But if I'm a small
market team and I don't have the ability to attract
the free agent through these extracurricular activities in the same way,
not because I ain't got the money, but because I
don't have the same.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Things to offer me.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You can just offer more in New York or or
la or where rich people go, like Miami, like you
can offer you know, levels of things that you can't
offer if you were in Indiana.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Nobody ever signs in Miami. Where are you at, by
the way, it's our basil. I'm in Miami playing tennis
and off the grid. You have you own a house
in South Oronge right where the property taxes? Like that.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I actually rent a room in South Orange. This is
the only This is the room that I rent. My
family and I live in this room. It's it's a
cozy room, especially with all of us here.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Okay, I'm a chill yo, you do. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Right when you cash your arms like that to shine
the glimmer from your watch kind of blinded me for
a minute.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
So can you can you do me a favor? And
the level of wealth that's coming from.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I'm seeing a lot of original black art back there.
Those aren't prints. That's uh, that's really powerful.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
To see them all.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's good to see.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What do you talk about? Got some Canal Street? These
are posters?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh okay, I thought you were like the French stealing
black art.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
No, no, no, my middle y Lamont. But it's it's
it's just as we got a little off track there.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
But Mark, do you feel like there needs to be
some punishment for the clippers and if so, what should
the punishment look like?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
First, I mean there has to be accountability here, because
I mean they colored outside the lines. And again, I
mean you could argue, like you know what's like like
there's a natural consequence, like they cheated and got Paul
George and Kawhi Leonard. I mean like they already lost.
Like I don't know how many nat how much more
punishment they need. But I think that the normal punishment
(13:55):
in a situation like this to me is draft picks
and money.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That to me would be reasonable.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Uh you know if it was college you say, oh,
you can't play in the tournament for few years. But
you can't tell a team they can't play in the
playoffs because it creates me other logistical challenges.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
So they ain't making that nowhere.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's what I'm saying. Natural, what do you? What do you?
What do you give the man who has everything? Right?
What do you? What do you? How do you push
the team that has nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like all you can do is is take their draft
picks away.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
They don't even have those though they lost those of
Okac in that trade.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It's just like, that's what I'm saying, Like, I don't
feel pity for the Clippers. It's just they're going like
they did like host it. They did it to themselves,
Like I mean they had SJ.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And Drake gave them away. I mean, like they're never
gonna win.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, they should make them play. That's that should be.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I didn't hear you.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
They should make them play a season in Philadelphia. I
think that would really.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I really showed them Philadelphia's come on to come up.
We're fine, We're fine.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Let's get into the gambling debacle because that took the
sports world by storm. That was like the craziest thing.
Did it shock you though? That the people that are
at the forefront are at the forefront where other people
are not being named.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, like, first of all, the purp Walks is all
gonna be the black people.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Rahiem Jenkins, you know, Michael Robinson, so and so, so
and so. Name them their faces, their yearbook pictures. They're
tied to Russian gangsters, Italian mobsters. They get real generic
when they talk about the organized crime films that are
actually powering this. But when they get the people who
are in the front line, you know, talking into the
lapel and the poker table, suddenly they want to say
everybody's whole name, they dated, birthday, social That's just the norm. Unfortunately,
(15:47):
I'm not surprised the particular players that got named. I
mean some of them I had heard things about. Some
of them I knew were gamblers, so I wasn't stunned.
I think, what's more shocking and I can't say it
just because I can't, But there's a couple more names
are gonna come out, that are going to come out
in the next two weeks. Then I think you're gonna be like,
oh oh, and I think that's what's gonna that's what's
gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Mm hmmm, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
You gotta you gotta follow Mario just because. Question to
ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Okay, do you feel has your experience as a sports.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Fan change since gambling has become so mainstream and normal.
That's a great question.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
A little bit because you I feel like I'm questioning
more or if something happens, like if it's an egregious drop,
I'm like, hm, right, right, you know what I mean, Like,
if it's something that happened like Rodney and I talked
about this a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Was who was that? Was that? James Harden who like
and nothing?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
You start to question what's going on?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You know?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So, yes, it kind of has changed.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I wrote around conspiracy theory and conspiracy theorists and so.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Hold on Samaria for the record, he grew up a
part of as a part of a cult.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I have heard this story on conspiracy theorists.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yes, oh Jesu is right. We all just spread and
we make them right. So I'm not against conspiracies. I
tend to have a healthy suspicion of them because I
think I think sometimes the truth is less interesting but
more likely, But when it.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Comes to gambling.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I believe a lot of the suspicions, you know, I
believe a lot of the conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists,
not all of them. Like, do I think, is it
possible James Harden just couldn't put up one more point
in a second half? Sure, only because it's such an
absurd like he needed twenty two we had twenty one
in the first first half. He doesn't score another point
(18:01):
in a second half of basketball, and he's one of
the greatest offensive weapons in the history of basketball.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I get out it's funny looking. But it's so funny looking.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
At You're like, he wouldn't do that because it'd be
too obvious. I think it's just one of those things
unfortunate that unfortunately happens. But I could be persuaded otherwise,
to be clear, But that wouldn't be my first instinct.
But when I see so many guys not so many,
When I see a significant number, though a noteworthy number
of people, you know, the turnovers, the late pulling themselves
(18:32):
out of the game, late with mysterious injuries or phantom injuries,
it's like.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I'm starting to lose some of my faith in the game.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's just like when the refs were cheating, and again
it wasn't a lot of them, right, But it only
takes one. It only take one donagy to be like, oh,
you know, are they all doing this?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It only takes four or five players.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And and the thing about basketball is one player can
affect the game so much. And then when you talk
about prop bets, forget the line, because the line is
a whole other thing, right, But when you talk about
prop bets, all you need is one guy. I almost
wish we could reduce the and.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I'm not saying it's possible, and I don't know a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
About gambling, but I almost wish we could reduce it
to like one or two players on each team, something
where it just limits the ability of Like I'm using
Kelly Uber only because you mentioned him, and my wife
is a crush on him, you know, so you know, yes,
that's why I'm hating on Kelly Uber the record, everybody's
(19:35):
wife is a crush with Kelly Uber. But but but like, yeah,
like if you say Kelly Uber is going is going
to make five threes and he's four for four and
doesn't fire one up, I have a lot less faith
in him. I trust the tyrese Max he's not going
to do that, that he's not going to take or
not take a shot to cover a prop bet. I
(19:56):
trust that Lebron James won't and so forth and so on.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
But when you get to the third or fourth or
fifth best player.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
On the team, probably just because how much money they made,
you know what I mean, I feel, and how much
more susceptible they could be to this, I start to worry.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I know that's not the solution.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
This is just me saying I'm desperate for a solution,
and I don't know if there is one, but I'm
desperate for one so that we don't have to do this,
you know what I mean. I'm not a gambler, so
maybe if I was a gambler, I feel differently about it.
But also for me as a fan, I don't gamble.
Partly I know enough about basketball and gamble on it.
(20:33):
The problem is, when I'm watching the Sixers, the only
thing I want to see is the Sixers win. And
if I got ten thousand dollars riding on the other
guy making one more three and and we're up to
with ten seconds left, I don't want to be rooting
against the Sixers because I don't want to lose my money.
But I also don't want to lose my money, so
I don't want to put myself in that position. And
(20:53):
I think prop bets in particular can put you in
weird positions as a fan. And I watch sport at
this point in my life just for the for the fandom,
just for the fun of it, not to it's not
it's not a financial enterprise for me.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
That's uh, that's an antiquated approach to sports these days.
It's all about it's all about gamla for a lot
of people. I want to I want to talk about
something that I heard you say actually today. Uh you
said that today's NBA athletes are mentally softer than athletes
of the past. Do you think there's any correlation? You
did you said it on the pod because you were
talking about the fragility of athletes not being able to
(21:28):
handle fans talking. Uh oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, yea yeah, yes, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So do you think there's any correlation between that softness
that you were talking about in basketball now being an
upper middle class sport.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I'm trying to avoid making a light skin joke, so I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Thank you for stopping colorism in our community.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Brother.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
That's an interesting question. I hadn't thought about that before.
It's a wonderful question. It's a wonderful implicit point you're
making right as these players get more middle class, partly
because it's more second generation players, also because basketball has
become so you know, yeah, it's money driven from the beginning.
(22:16):
You need money to play in a way that we
when we played Aau and Sunny Hill and all this
other st we just went out, we went outside, we played.
If you were good enough, you got put on the
team and that was it. Now these kids got trainers.
Like my son is three and a half and I'm
already like once he hit six. Yeah, you know, I'm
getting Doc Rivers.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So you want him to not make it to the league.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Got it? Austin Rivers was pretty good.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
We're not gonna do This're a hater.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Austin Rivers was a monster. He was.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But Doc wasn't there for that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Boy. You know that it's been It wasn't Doc.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Doc was living in la His son was living in Florida.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Let's let's keep it a buck.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So you think the fact that Doc Rivers one of
the NBA greats of his generation. Great point guard, not elite,
but great point guard have of a sudden that becomes
all American, the best kid in high school, an elite
player at Duke, and it makes the NBA.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
You think that's just because who do you think did that?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
So man, the police, let's not focus on doctor.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
The d n A.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
D n A does matter. But there are also some
people who daddy wasn't and they ended up being all
time legends. So you know, it's exactly it was his
dad was.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It was in the league, actually, but I'm sure I thought,
you like, they wasn't around, like they were bad fins.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
No, I meant athletically, like they had let me.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I mean's dad was a monster. So it was the
way waste, not even a different way.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, But I don't want to I don't want to
fixate on doc purpose, but I just, you know, I
just wonder sometimes because I know that basketball has changed
so much culturally, you know, like you said, it's a
very expensive sport to play now, it's almost it's almost
like golf and tennis in some regards. You know, does
that change the kind of the kind of people that play.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
A conspiracy theorist would say also that many of the
children are the children of NBA players and other pros
who played overseas who birth children with white women and
made these extremely light skinned children.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But I have a theory though, fat white women make
good black athletes.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Oh, we gotta cancel my next meeting.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We got we got to walk.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I have a theory on this.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, this this tracks right because so often when when
you think about black athletes that get attracted to the
white mid smarious. I don't you don't You don't have
to weigh in on this because I don't want you
to be held accountable for this absurdity. But again, these
are just conspiracy theories that are being floated. It's not
my position nor rioties. We're just floating the ideas that
are being floated.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I saw somebody say I think on TikTok that that
the baddies, that the I G baddies aren't creating athletes either.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
No, I don't know. Well know in sixteen years, oh,
he said, Well, No, one's sixteen.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
We find out the Eagles have lost back to back games.
This is the second time that's happened this year. They're
eight and four they're not horrible, but Philly fans are
like they so much so they're so mad that they
egged the OC's house. Who do you feel like it
is culpable for their struggles? And do you think it's
a J Brown in his antics?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So it'll be prefaces by saying I have intentionally stopped
watching football so sincerely, But why after Colin Kaepernick?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I just never went back.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Oh okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
We don't even have to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
No, no, it's okay, but but you raised I can't so
I can't get to the x's and o's of it.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
But what I can tell you is.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
One I want to speak to the fans egging the
offensive coordinator's house. I don't think I'm felt this proud
as a Philadelphia in a long time to hear that.
That's exciting just from a fan perspective, Like I remember
when we lost the World Series to the Toronto Blue
Jays and Mitch Williams, Mitch wild Thing Williams gave up
(26:15):
that that home run to Joe Carter in the ninth inning.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And we went to his house. Yeah, what why is everybody? See?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
This is the problem with you outsiders? You don't understand
our life, you don't understand our ways, and y'all.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Both looked at me with the craziest look like that.
It was weird. The Eagles, you know, first.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Of all, the Philadelphia is very much what have you
done for me this week?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Town?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And the amount of grace that the city has given
them is actually extraordinary. Part of that is because of
the Super Bowl last year. But remember, uh, you started
off like eight no, noine, no whatever. Was that an
extraordinary record two years ago and then then just plummeted
at the end of the season. There are people who
are fearing that that's what's about to happen again. So
(27:05):
there's that fear that's building up. The offense is where
the problem seems to be. Very clearly. A lot of
people are starting again. Jalen Hurt's got a whole lot
of support. Now people are saying, well, hey, wait a minute,
maybe Cam Newton wasn't all the way off, maybe he's
not the elite, top five, top six quarterback that people
think is. I don't know enough about football to make
a passionate case, but it does seem like they're underperforming.
(27:28):
Losing to the Bears isn't the worst thing. But you know,
and you know NFC East, you know rivalries. Those games
are always close, no matter no matter how good or
how bad a team is, Every NFC East game is
gonna be tough.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
So losing to Dallas you might not feel.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So you can explain away losses, but you can't explain
away is how the offense keeps stalling in the clutch.
So if they lose another one, somebody's getting fired. And
if we don't make it to the NFC Championship game,
the head coach is getting fired.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I can tell you that for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Wow, they wanted to fire him before. I do have
another football question Watch football, but it's not it's about
It's about the Russell Wilson. We talked about this earlier,
this time in Trayvon Boyken. Do you feel like why
why do you feel like Russell is always like the
butt of jokes and people are so comfortable.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I think there's a few reasons I think that's like
he is. I mean, I just want Mark.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I think reason number one is people are, particularly in
this hyper masculine context, uneasy with somebody who doesn't perform
hyper masculine in a certain kind of way, who articulates
values that are not foreign to us at all, but
that don't get necessarily talked about publicly in the same way.
(28:47):
So he's talking about family and children and God and
all these things that don't get talked about a lot.
And so there's a way that people are very much
like I don't know, and you know, watching the nice
guy the square win is not what people want to see,
not in this world. Then the reason number two is
he deserves it, right. Every teammate, lots of teammates say
(29:16):
he's a And there is a way. It's sometimes sometimes
sometimes that people who perform the moral morality end up
looking like they're just taking them all high grind in that,
like they're morally stutting on everybody like I'm better than you.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And there's a subtlety to that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Like Reggie White back in the day talked about God
and all that stuff, but it never felt like he
thought he was better than you, felt like he was
almost ministering to the world, except for that moment where
he left the Eagles went to Green Band said God
told him to.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Take the money. Rest in peace for that guy.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
But when we talk about we don't it's up forever
in Philadelphia understand that, but I never felt like that
with him.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I don't feel like that was Steph Curry, who.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Talks about faith, in love and family and some I
don't feel like he's talking down to the ministerings. But
there are people who feel like Russell Wilson does that.
I haven't experienced that with Russell Wilson, but I don't
watch eno football to say if that's if their concerns
are legitimate or not.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
But I know people feel that way.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
But the idea of him and his prime being you know,
separated from teammates, having his own office, you know that,
you know, being disconnected, not doing the.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Team's stuff, Now some of that is a little bit
of race.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Is a little bit of race too, because quarterbacks are
known for being a little bit distant and being a
little bit above the fray and acting like they're better
than folking because it's they feel like it's their team.
And I suspect that if Tom Brady were doing all
the things that Russell West Russell Wilson were doing, we
wouldn't have the exact same response. If Brady would do
that in his prime, but he may have been we
wouldn't know, so so I think it's a couple of things,
(30:43):
and I think too often it becomes a you all
just hate him because he's a nice guy, and everybody's like, no,
that guy, he's an ass and it's like, no family,
we can come together knowing that it's both.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
He just doesn't feel culturally aligned, which I think makes
some easy target. It's one thing that you know, yeah,
we recognize that you are black, but you're black in
a different way. That doesn't feel comfortable, and I think
that's the part of the problem. I got a couple
more questions, and I kind of want to do a
bit of a bit of a Z way situation here,
right like I won't I won't go too far left,
but we just love a couple of short, concise answers
(31:15):
for these questions. If you're mine, okay, Uh, do you
think that athletes should be allowed to use HGH for recovery?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Absolutely? Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You played on one of the worst pick up basketball
games of all time. At what point will you stop
living in yesteryear and pick up a more age appropriate sport. Uh?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
My pickleball racket is around here somewhere. Okay, But I
have that was I have retired from basketball. Okay, gratulation.
I focused on pickleball, golf and some little martial arts.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Thank you, we appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
The Joe Budden Podcast has a new member in Mona Love.
What mid season NBA acquisition would you compare her signing to?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Uh? Rushie Wallace in Detroit?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Slim dunk right there?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
What is one thing that you wish all black men
could experience at least once in their lifetime?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Every joke I had, was it appropriated white women? I'm kidding, No,
that wasn't one of them, Rodney. Now all of us
are on South Beach to answer your question, what is
one thing.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Good love?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Do you think we as a community over complicate love
and relationships?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
No, we under complicated.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
If you marry someone and they pass away, and then
you remarry and then that person passes away, assuming that
you had nothing to do with either deaths, who should
get first DIBs on you in the afterlife?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Why do we? Why can't we all be together?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
You're a sick, nasty man.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
You got imick one? Those are? I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I just had some, But but I wouldn't remarry if
I if my wife passed away, I wouldn't remarry season season. No,
I meant that the laws would be so devastating that
I couldn't find another partner.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
You google Samaria.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
If you believe that, then as a fact, that's bad.
That's a fact. That's a fact. All right, Well, but
we'll talk about Rihanna later. Go ahead. Now, we appreciate you, man.
It's always it's always a privilege. D you know, can
(33:40):
I plug something before we go? No? Please? Please?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I know you're gonna ask me a Brian McKnight question.
That's actually what I thought you were going to ask me.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I started too. Then I was like, because you've interviewed
as kids, that's a different level. This is your entering
Cameron and uh Cuba Gooding, Omar Gooding Junior.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
See now I said, it's not y oh ma, you
see that? Get them bars ready? He probably got a
hot sixteen for every every podcast already.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah I did that.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah, you're entering can serritory your pettiness.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
But I wasn't being the funniest. I wasn't trying to
be petty.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Why did you interview his kids? Why did you interview
that man's kids?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Because you see me saying like when you asked the
question like that and said, you set me up to
only seeing petty.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
They they deserve to be heard. Yeah, they deserve to
be heard.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
If if if Brian McKnight says, Malcolm my Hill is
a piece of that guy, and I know that he's
like a bad parent. Hypothetically, I don't go find his kids.
But Brian mknight went on a public tour talking about
his kids. He brought his kids into the public and
(34:49):
then he did an interview talking about talking about his
kids where he mentioned me so. The reason I responded
to him at all was because he mentioned he mentioned
me so, and I still want to bring up Joe
ass So I was like, oh, I got to answer it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It's Joe's the boss.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
But then somebody reach out to me and said, this
kid is his ex wife and his kids his son. Brian,
the original Brian Jr. Wanted to be heard and so smarty,
you don't laugh at that. I mean, I get the
absurdity of having two juniors unjunior in your kid is
(35:23):
like crazy work. Like I didn't even know something you
could do. I didn't even that wasn't that I didn't
even know that was in the rules. But none of
my business again, but he gave a public stage. He
went on a public stage that millions of people have
seen now through clips and said this is but my kids.
And so the kids are like, well, can we say
(35:43):
something back and so for me? And they asked, so
do I say no. I'm not going to do what
he does. I'm not going to say no to his kids.
I'm not going to close the door on his kids.
I said, come on through. I'm happy to make the
sacrifice because me, Rodney, it's about healing, it's about coming
(36:05):
together as a community. It's about being in a better
place than we started.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Are you ready to be the new Shannon Sharp?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
That could mean a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Not in the sense of sleeping with nineteen year old
white girls. I'm talking about from the standpoint of people
wanting to come to you to continue the mess.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I don't want to ever be involved in mess. One
thing I don't do is mess. What I do want
to be a part of is healthy dialogue. As it
I only want to be a part of a healthy dialogue.
I really and all jokes is that I sincerely believe.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
And I have you watched an interview, I didn't get
a chance to watch it.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yet I have you subscribed to my Patreon? No?
Speaker 3 (36:46):
You know what, you didn't text me back the last time,
and I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I hope I did need to change the wrong number. No.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
I texted you because I was trying to be suggestive
and supportive and I thought that I could then and
I didn't get a response back, so I didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
You know, had you subscribed to my patrion, then you
didn't see the interview because you didn'ts subscribe to my
patriot But if you do.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
It was an hour and a half interview, and a
lot of it was about how.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Can we make this work, how can we heal you,
how can you two come together, how can we facilitate that?
Speaker 1 (37:14):
What do you need it?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
It was mostly that, you know, the little bits and
pieces that might hit the internet, which I clipped up
and put on the internet. Just a small part of it,
but that's what you got to do to get people
to watch it. I get it, you know, But and
they were true and they needed to be said, you
know what I mean. I didn't take anything out of context,
but there's so much more to it. And I also
(37:37):
reach out to Brian Senior.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
And I hope he and I can come together and talk.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I have an idea. Okay, Brian McKnight, and I know
this from personal experience, is a phenomenal basketball player or
was at one point?
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Would did he?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
So maybe you can now compete with him because he
was actually pretty good at Elie Fitness in LA. Would
you be interested in playing him one on one to
resolve your issue?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Perhaps he started to like love basketball, start missing layups,
kicking it off his foot. Hey, man, while we wrap
this up because we were severely of course, Oh god,
(38:30):
you started this, man, So I'm forgiving for being extra silly.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I haven't ever slept in a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Man, Yeah, me either, man either.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Everybody, make sure you make you check out my Patreon.
I launched the patreon, uh for two reasons. One, I
wanted to give the fans, the audience, the community, all
these different all these different spaces, more stuff, more access,
and so. On my Patreon, you can find classic material
(38:59):
that's nowhere else for me. Interviews that I've done, for example,
I just I put one of I think one of
the last two interviews that.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Prodigy did before he passed away.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I put up there for example, just as one example,
an interview did with President Jimmy Carter where we talked
about scripture and he said, you know that he thought
Jesus woul support gay marriage, and he unpacked that force.
So the idea is to give everybody who supports my
work more stuff. But the other piece of it is
to support independent media, independent content makers. You know, when
(39:29):
I got fired from CNN, I sort of decided that
I never want to be in that corporate media world.
In the same way again, I didn't want to be
that dependent on somebody else. I didn't want my ability
to say something to depend on somebody in some office
telling me that I can.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
And so I decided that we ain't got to do
that no more. Let's make our own stuff, Let's have
our own platforms, let's have our own spaces. And that's
what I do. But we go to corporate mediacause they
give us a jack.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
So if we support the journalists, if we support the
media maker, if we support the content, and then they
don't have to do that. So the Patreon is for
people who want me to remain an independent voice, an
unbought and unbossed voice, as Shirley Chisholm said, that's the goal.
So if people can go to patreon dot com slash
MARKO Minhill Official. Just go to Patreon, you can find me.
I would appreciate if they could joined as a supporter
(40:16):
or above, because it allows me to keep doing this
work in the ways that I have been for the
last twenty years.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Also, make sure y'all check you out Mark's bookstore in Philly,
Uncle Bobby's. You know you want to also support all
the businesses that continue to allow him to to afford
the property taxes in South Orange really important.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Four hundreds a month for this room, my rent. That's it.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Mark, Thank you so much for coming on with us.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
We gotta do this again.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
I would do this when if you're going to be here,
Jam you know, because you give professionalism and care and
knowledge and insight that is unmatched on any platform, including
your own. I'll be here. I appreciate what you do.
Thank you for being you. Seriously, I mean even your background.
Look at your background. Look at his I'm in a
(41:02):
hotel room, journalist. He looks like he's drying out from
a binge.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Like yo, yo, words, I gotta I can't even come back.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Yeah, we're out of here.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Man
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