December 10, 2025 • 11 mins
A growing wave of revisionist takes is downplaying Kobe Bryant’s legacy—and fans are calling it out. On the Bill Simmons Podcast and FanDuel segments featuring Rob Mahoney and Chandler Parsons, Kobe has been dismissed in GOAT conversations and ranked behind Tim Duncan. Critics argue that Kobe’s midrange mastery, defensive intensity, and footwork have become underappreciated in today’s analytics-heavy NBA. Supporters like Lou Williams, Allen Iverson, and even fans on social media are pushing back, reminding people that Kobe influenced an entire generation of stars—from DeMar DeRozan to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. As Kobe’s playoff years fade from memory, is a younger generation forgetting just how dominant he was?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So now that we have this revisionist history or people
try to like compare modern day basketball in saying that
Kobe didn't fit the model of what today's NBA is playing, Like,
it's silly as hell, because the best players in the NBA,
from Sga to DeRozan to even Lebron now adapting that
mid range game is predicated on who Kobe Bryant was.
And so I don't like the disrespect. It really does.
(00:20):
It really irks my soul. So this week on the
Bill Simmons podcast, Bill Simmons was joined by Rob Mahoney
and they were debating the list of teams power rankings
in this year's NBA season. But the conversation diverted a
little bit and they ended up talking about Kobe Bryant
and his all time ranking position. Right, So there was
(00:41):
a slight conversation about the fact that Tim Duncan was
a better player than Kobe Bryant, and they were very
dismissive of the fact that Kobe should even be in
that conversation, right, Like, Bill was very blase about who
the Kobe Bryant is and was and will forever be.
And so this morning I saw a clip where Lou
Will was defending his former teammate Kobe Bryant and basically
was like, Yo, people got revision of history. Y'all got
(01:03):
to stop acting like Kobe is not Kobe. So so, Maria,
how much of a Kobe fan were you in all time?
Where do you think his legacy is cemented?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, so before we get into that, let's go back
to what the conversation was that was on FanDuel. He said,
there's too many conversations around Kobe's legacy for my liking
when that man was alive, and well, none of this
was a conversation. And Chandler Parsons is also on that
FanDuel lineup and he was the one that pushed Kobe
out of the top three for Tim Duncan. And I
(01:33):
think that is a very interesting conversation. But regarding respect, though,
let's not act like Kobe's legacy has not been disrespected
this whole time, Like it's not just something that has
just come up. I feel like once Lebron came into
the picture, people were then putting Lebron and Michael Jordan
and booting Kobe out.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And it wasn't until you.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Had like former athletes like Alan Iverson except come out
and say like, no, like y'all are forgetting who Kobe was. Right.
So I love that lou Will is coming out and
saying that today, But I think that it's something that
is been happening.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
When Kobe passed away in twenty twenty, there was somewhat
of an embargo period where like you couldn't say anything
negative about Kobe Bryant, right, And then there was maybe
like two years ago, for whatever reason, that embargo was lifted,
and then people started to take shots at the legacy
of Kobe Bryant. And maybe shot is too strong of
a sentiment, like people started actually sharing their new beliefs,
(02:36):
new found beliefs or their truths about how they felt
about Kobe Bryant, from Bill Simmons to Ryan rossillo, Rob Mahoney,
the list goes on and on, right. And I remember
when Kobe Bryant was in the NBA, there you had
a small faction of people who want to just compare
Alan Irison or Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady. But the
fact of the matter is there was never anybody in
(02:56):
the NBA during his high prime years that with Kobe
Bryant and that's just the fact of the matters. So
now that we have this revisionist history or people try
to like compare modern day basketball, like this version of
basketball this he didn't shoot a high enough percentage, and
like the game was played very differently during Kobe Bryant's tenure.
So to try to compare who Kobe was and the
(03:17):
way the game was played then to this new free flowing,
wide open space space and pace everybody shooting threes and
saying that Kobe didn't fit the model of what today's
NBA is playing like, it's silly as hell because the
best players in the NBA, from SGA to DeRozan to
even Lebron now adapting that mid range game is predicated
(03:37):
on who Kobe Bryant was. And so I don't like
the disrespect it really does. It really irks my soul.
It really irks my soul.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No, I agree.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Now back to your initial question for me, Kobe is
top three?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I would put him over Lebron.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We just saw this conversation with Candice Parker on the
All the Smoke podcasts, and she had she was very
apology at putting Lebron at three, and there was a
lot of dialogue about that.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Why are people so apologetic.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
When they put Lebron at three in that all time list.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I want to hear your thoughts on that too.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
It's because of what Lebron has done for so long. Right,
You're talking about a guy who's playing in the league for
twenty one years and Dair twenty two years now, and
it's still playing at an elite level. It's still playing
at like no worse than a top twenty player in
the league. He's broken seemingly every record, and so from
a longevity standpoint, when you look at the totality of
Lebron's numbers, they look like the guy who is the
(04:34):
greatest of all time. But I always make this comparison.
If you are teaching a seven year old basketball right
and you want to show them the example of who
they should model their game after, you're gonna choose Kobe
Bryant over Lebron James because there's no way that anybody
of a normal size can replicate what Lebron James was
able to do on the NBA court. You can't be
(04:55):
six eight, two fifty. But the footwork, the grace, and
the style thatbe Bryant played with is something that anybody
could do at a high level. So long as you
have that moniacal commitment to being better in the game
of basketball that Kobe Bryant did, he is the He's
not the blueprint because Michael Jordan is the blueprint, but
he is the blueprint two point zero for that kind
(05:16):
of efficiency, that kind of excellence. Like there's a mastery
of the game of basketball. And I think today's game,
for whatever reason, now today's game is like it's stat basketball.
We are living in a time where people are looking
at the numbers. That shot is inefficient, that shot is inefficient.
You know, we only want to shoot threes and layups.
(05:36):
And so we have this new form of basketball that's
being played that really isn't that appealing if we're being
completely honest, where people just are doing one of two things,
layups or three pointers or free throws. And so we've
lost a lot of nuance in the game. It's like
when you get in the car and if it's hot,
you turn your thermostat all the way to the left,
(05:56):
or if it's colde turning all the way to the right.
It's like, though there's mad temperatures in the middle, and
we've lost the ability to be in that middle space
where I think the game of basketball is most brilliantly played.
And let me just say, I do love Bron. I
think Bron is spectacular. I think he's been a phenomenal
ambassador for the game. He is what the league needed,
of course post Kobe. But when you look at just
(06:19):
the nuances of the game, right, it's just it's different
when you compare the skill level of Kobe Bryant to
the ferocity of Bron. He passes better than Kobe, but
in terms of like just pure basketball mechanics, it's not
even close.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I also feel like maybe when we have these goat
conversations that we need to like divvy it up based
off of position too, because I just think like when
you look at like other sports, particularly football, like you
can say, oh, that was the greatest running back of
all time, That was the greatest quarterback of all time,
that was the greatest tight end or linebacker, you know
(06:57):
what I mean, Like it's hard to say like some
in football was like the greatest ever like all around.
I mean, people say Tom Brady, yes, but he's a
quarterback too, right, But I feel like this conversation with
like Tim Duncan in there, it's like, yes, we can
say that Tim Duncan was the greatest or one of
(07:17):
the greatest at his position, but I hate that, like
we're comparing, just like when we have the conversation about
like Kaitlyn Clark and Angel Reese, it's like we're comparing
two women that play two different positions. Not define or
does that matter in basketball?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So it's tricky in basketball because we have, like I
told you a couple of weeks ago, there's like best
and greatest and so some of that. You can't be
so but so great if you haven't had a certain
level of success, right, you have to have produced championships,
all NBAS, all Star like you have MVPs. All of
these things go into the greatest. But the best basketball
(07:55):
player is the guy, like if you just roll the
basketball out there, who is more likely to get a
W Because there's so many things that impact and effect
a players' ability to build up his resume. And of
course that's front office, that's how they draft, that's the coaches, teammates,
all of those different things, and so Tim Duncan was amazing, bro,
Like incredible. I'm not I will never talk badly about
(08:16):
Tim Duncan, but you look at that Spurs system, and
you look at the fact that he had the greatest
coach of all time in Popovich. You look at the
players around him, from Manu to David Robinson to Tony Parker,
like it's a gaudy it's a gaudy system, right, And
then you could say the same thing about Kobe for
his first three championships. With those next two, yeah, he
(08:36):
had Phil Jackson. But when we were watching the game
of basketball in the two thousands, like when we were
like when I was, when I was sitting back, Kobe
was just different. He had the Bruce leveryd glow he was.
He had all the things. And even when as he
got older and his game was less athletic and more
like like it just was. The evolution of his game
(08:56):
was crazy. And I think those last three years with
the Lakers, three or four years with the Lakers, you know,
after the Achilles tear, I think that's the people for
whatever reason, that that's the version of Kobe Bryant that
people remember. And it's like, nah, you can't do that
to him. Like you see who was playing with That's
not fair. You can't use those years to compare his
final years to what Lebron is currently doing in LA
(09:19):
with Luka Doncics and Austin Reeves and Anthony Davis like that.
You can't do that, man, That's not fair. I did
hear a very interesting stat though, This might blow your mind.
How old do you think Kobe Bryant was the last
time he played in the playoffs The last he was
he was thirty two years old the last time he
was in the playoffs with the Lakers, and Lebron is
(09:40):
forty one. So that there's like the longevity conversation. But
those Lakers teams are not Yeah, those Lakers teams were terrible, man, terrible.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
From the kids that are on social media that are
spearheading these debates, did not witness him, right, they have.
It's generations now that have seen Lebron. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Crazy. So the Hawks wore throwback jerseys the other day
that Lebron played against, like the Cleveland Cavaliers. Throwback jersey
for this year is like Lebron's second or third Cleveland
Cavaliers jersey. That's how long like his jersey is is
the throwback jersey of choice for organizations. Now that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, he's getting old up there. Y'all run the same age,
ain't you.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
We are. We got to go to high school the
same year, but you know facts, class of two thousand
and three. Baby, what's up? We're out here. We still flourishing.
I look good. Keep on living. Someday you'll get there.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
We can do this goat talk for ever and ever.
But we want to hear from you all down in
the comments below. Let us know number one, who is
your goat. I want to hear your top three too, Like,
let's just have like a full debate in the comments.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I promise I'm gonna get in and do you oh also,
and do you feel like Coke.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Is not respected enough in this goat conversation? All of
those things let us know download.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
For sure, man, make sure you'll also tap into our newsletter,
the linkers and the bio for that. I'm a bit
of a hypocrite because as much as I just said
about Kobe Bryant, I'm taking Steph carry over Magic Johnson.
So there's that
So now that we have this revisionist history or people
try to like compare modern day basketball in saying that
Kobe didn't fit the model of what today's NBA is playing, Like,
it's silly as hell, because the best players in the NBA,
from Sga to DeRozan to even Lebron now adapting that
mid range game is predicated on who Kobe Bryant was.
And so I don't like the disrespect. It really does.
(00:20):
It really irks my soul. So this week on the
Bill Simmons podcast, Bill Simmons was joined by Rob Mahoney
and they were debating the list of teams power rankings
in this year's NBA season. But the conversation diverted a
little bit and they ended up talking about Kobe Bryant
and his all time ranking position. Right, So there was
(00:41):
a slight conversation about the fact that Tim Duncan was
a better player than Kobe Bryant, and they were very
dismissive of the fact that Kobe should even be in
that conversation, right, Like, Bill was very blase about who
the Kobe Bryant is and was and will forever be.
And so this morning I saw a clip where Lou
Will was defending his former teammate Kobe Bryant and basically
was like, Yo, people got revision of history. Y'all got
(01:03):
to stop acting like Kobe is not Kobe. So so, Maria,
how much of a Kobe fan were you in all time?
Where do you think his legacy is cemented?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, so before we get into that, let's go back
to what the conversation was that was on FanDuel. He said,
there's too many conversations around Kobe's legacy for my liking
when that man was alive, and well, none of this
was a conversation. And Chandler Parsons is also on that
FanDuel lineup and he was the one that pushed Kobe
out of the top three for Tim Duncan. And I
(01:33):
think that is a very interesting conversation. But regarding respect, though,
let's not act like Kobe's legacy has not been disrespected
this whole time, Like it's not just something that has
just come up. I feel like once Lebron came into
the picture, people were then putting Lebron and Michael Jordan
and booting Kobe out.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And it wasn't until you.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Had like former athletes like Alan Iverson except come out
and say like, no, like y'all are forgetting who Kobe was. Right.
So I love that lou Will is coming out and
saying that today, But I think that it's something that
is been happening.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
When Kobe passed away in twenty twenty, there was somewhat
of an embargo period where like you couldn't say anything
negative about Kobe Bryant, right, And then there was maybe
like two years ago, for whatever reason, that embargo was lifted,
and then people started to take shots at the legacy
of Kobe Bryant. And maybe shot is too strong of
a sentiment, like people started actually sharing their new beliefs,
(02:36):
new found beliefs or their truths about how they felt
about Kobe Bryant, from Bill Simmons to Ryan rossillo, Rob Mahoney,
the list goes on and on, right. And I remember
when Kobe Bryant was in the NBA, there you had
a small faction of people who want to just compare
Alan Irison or Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady. But the
fact of the matter is there was never anybody in
(02:56):
the NBA during his high prime years that with Kobe
Bryant and that's just the fact of the matters. So
now that we have this revisionist history or people try
to like compare modern day basketball, like this version of
basketball this he didn't shoot a high enough percentage, and
like the game was played very differently during Kobe Bryant's tenure.
So to try to compare who Kobe was and the
(03:17):
way the game was played then to this new free flowing,
wide open space space and pace everybody shooting threes and
saying that Kobe didn't fit the model of what today's
NBA is playing like, it's silly as hell because the
best players in the NBA, from SGA to DeRozan to
even Lebron now adapting that mid range game is predicated
(03:37):
on who Kobe Bryant was. And so I don't like
the disrespect it really does. It really irks my soul.
It really irks my soul.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No, I agree.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Now back to your initial question for me, Kobe is
top three?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I would put him over Lebron.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We just saw this conversation with Candice Parker on the
All the Smoke podcasts, and she had she was very
apology at putting Lebron at three, and there was a
lot of dialogue about that.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Why are people so apologetic.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
When they put Lebron at three in that all time list.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I want to hear your thoughts on that too.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
It's because of what Lebron has done for so long. Right,
You're talking about a guy who's playing in the league for
twenty one years and Dair twenty two years now, and
it's still playing at an elite level. It's still playing
at like no worse than a top twenty player in
the league. He's broken seemingly every record, and so from
a longevity standpoint, when you look at the totality of
Lebron's numbers, they look like the guy who is the
(04:34):
greatest of all time. But I always make this comparison.
If you are teaching a seven year old basketball right
and you want to show them the example of who
they should model their game after, you're gonna choose Kobe
Bryant over Lebron James because there's no way that anybody
of a normal size can replicate what Lebron James was
able to do on the NBA court. You can't be
(04:55):
six eight, two fifty. But the footwork, the grace, and
the style thatbe Bryant played with is something that anybody
could do at a high level. So long as you
have that moniacal commitment to being better in the game
of basketball that Kobe Bryant did, he is the He's
not the blueprint because Michael Jordan is the blueprint, but
he is the blueprint two point zero for that kind
(05:16):
of efficiency, that kind of excellence. Like there's a mastery
of the game of basketball. And I think today's game,
for whatever reason, now today's game is like it's stat basketball.
We are living in a time where people are looking
at the numbers. That shot is inefficient, that shot is inefficient.
You know, we only want to shoot threes and layups.
(05:36):
And so we have this new form of basketball that's
being played that really isn't that appealing if we're being
completely honest, where people just are doing one of two things,
layups or three pointers or free throws. And so we've
lost a lot of nuance in the game. It's like
when you get in the car and if it's hot,
you turn your thermostat all the way to the left,
(05:56):
or if it's colde turning all the way to the right.
It's like, though there's mad temperatures in the middle, and
we've lost the ability to be in that middle space
where I think the game of basketball is most brilliantly played.
And let me just say, I do love Bron. I
think Bron is spectacular. I think he's been a phenomenal
ambassador for the game. He is what the league needed,
of course post Kobe. But when you look at just
(06:19):
the nuances of the game, right, it's just it's different
when you compare the skill level of Kobe Bryant to
the ferocity of Bron. He passes better than Kobe, but
in terms of like just pure basketball mechanics, it's not
even close.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I also feel like maybe when we have these goat
conversations that we need to like divvy it up based
off of position too, because I just think like when
you look at like other sports, particularly football, like you
can say, oh, that was the greatest running back of
all time, That was the greatest quarterback of all time,
that was the greatest tight end or linebacker, you know
(06:57):
what I mean, Like it's hard to say like some
in football was like the greatest ever like all around.
I mean, people say Tom Brady, yes, but he's a
quarterback too, right, But I feel like this conversation with
like Tim Duncan in there, it's like, yes, we can
say that Tim Duncan was the greatest or one of
(07:17):
the greatest at his position, but I hate that, like
we're comparing, just like when we have the conversation about
like Kaitlyn Clark and Angel Reese, it's like we're comparing
two women that play two different positions. Not define or
does that matter in basketball?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So it's tricky in basketball because we have, like I
told you a couple of weeks ago, there's like best
and greatest and so some of that. You can't be
so but so great if you haven't had a certain
level of success, right, you have to have produced championships,
all NBAS, all Star like you have MVPs. All of
these things go into the greatest. But the best basketball
(07:55):
player is the guy, like if you just roll the
basketball out there, who is more likely to get a
W Because there's so many things that impact and effect
a players' ability to build up his resume. And of
course that's front office, that's how they draft, that's the coaches, teammates,
all of those different things, and so Tim Duncan was amazing, bro,
Like incredible. I'm not I will never talk badly about
(08:16):
Tim Duncan, but you look at that Spurs system, and
you look at the fact that he had the greatest
coach of all time in Popovich. You look at the
players around him, from Manu to David Robinson to Tony Parker,
like it's a gaudy it's a gaudy system, right, And
then you could say the same thing about Kobe for
his first three championships. With those next two, yeah, he
(08:36):
had Phil Jackson. But when we were watching the game
of basketball in the two thousands, like when we were
like when I was, when I was sitting back, Kobe
was just different. He had the Bruce leveryd glow he was.
He had all the things. And even when as he
got older and his game was less athletic and more
like like it just was. The evolution of his game
(08:56):
was crazy. And I think those last three years with
the Lakers, three or four years with the Lakers, you know,
after the Achilles tear, I think that's the people for
whatever reason, that that's the version of Kobe Bryant that
people remember. And it's like, nah, you can't do that
to him. Like you see who was playing with That's
not fair. You can't use those years to compare his
final years to what Lebron is currently doing in LA
(09:19):
with Luka Doncics and Austin Reeves and Anthony Davis like that.
You can't do that, man, That's not fair. I did
hear a very interesting stat though, This might blow your mind.
How old do you think Kobe Bryant was the last
time he played in the playoffs The last he was
he was thirty two years old the last time he
was in the playoffs with the Lakers, and Lebron is
(09:40):
forty one. So that there's like the longevity conversation. But
those Lakers teams are not Yeah, those Lakers teams were terrible, man, terrible.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
From the kids that are on social media that are
spearheading these debates, did not witness him, right, they have.
It's generations now that have seen Lebron. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Crazy. So the Hawks wore throwback jerseys the other day
that Lebron played against, like the Cleveland Cavaliers. Throwback jersey
for this year is like Lebron's second or third Cleveland
Cavaliers jersey. That's how long like his jersey is is
the throwback jersey of choice for organizations. Now that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, he's getting old up there. Y'all run the same age,
ain't you.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
We are. We got to go to high school the
same year, but you know facts, class of two thousand
and three. Baby, what's up? We're out here. We still flourishing.
I look good. Keep on living. Someday you'll get there.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
We can do this goat talk for ever and ever.
But we want to hear from you all down in
the comments below. Let us know number one, who is
your goat. I want to hear your top three too, Like,
let's just have like a full debate in the comments.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I promise I'm gonna get in and do you oh also,
and do you feel like Coke.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Is not respected enough in this goat conversation? All of
those things let us know download.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
For sure, man, make sure you'll also tap into our newsletter,
the linkers and the bio for that. I'm a bit
of a hypocrite because as much as I just said
about Kobe Bryant, I'm taking Steph carry over Magic Johnson.
So there's that
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