November 21, 2025 • 23 mins
Chamique Holdsclaw joins The Fumble for a powerful conversation covering her basketball legacy, the NBA vs WNBA debate, and her groundbreaking mental health advocacy. The former No. 1 overall pick and Tennessee icon opens up about her time with Pat Summitt, the Lady Vols’ historic championship run, and what it’ll take for the program to return to dominance. She weighs in on Lonzo Ball and Michael Porter Jr.’s controversial WNBA comments, discusses the evolution of women’s basketball, NIL, and rising leagues like Unrivaled and Project B. Holdsclaw also speaks candidly about living with bipolar disorder, healing from isolation, and the importance of showing up for yourself and others—on and off the court.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
But as far as like skills wise, I mean, I've trained,
you know, throughout my career with NBA players and the
trainers that tell you, oh, she's way more skilled than you.
But again, you can't teach the strength the power. That's
just where the separation lies in. But as far as
knowledge of the game, you know, I feel like in
some cases women are right there, not better.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
All right, we have a very special guest on the
show with us today, and the accolades are so long.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
She garnered Player of the Year honors at.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Every single level, two time Natesmith Player of the Year,
three time NCAA champion at Tennessee, number one overall.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Draft pick, w NBA Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
She's an Olympic gold medalist, she's a Hall of Famer,
and she's my starar Please welcome the one and only
Shamikua host Law to the Fumble.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What an honor. It is a happy Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Thank you. Everyone appreciate that. I appreciate the love.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Man, Shamika. You were the first women's superstar that I
was invested in. So backstory, I swear to god, I
went to Columbia High School, right and we had this
legendary basketball coach, Johanna Wright. She was the first basketball
coach of the women's McDonald's game, the first time women
were allowed into the game, and so we had a
fondness and a level of respect for women hoopers. But
(01:17):
Shamikua holse Claus name just stood above everybody else's. And
that nineteen ninety five class in New York City, which
was Stefan Marlbury, God, sham God and yourself was like
the whole trinity of basketball from my purview growing up.
Did you feel like the superstar that we all felt
like you were? How did that feel coming up with
(01:39):
all those eyeballs and attention just on you.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Like that man growing up in New York City, and
like you said, just with the hype of everything that
was going on with basketball. Honestly, it was just like
a normal day. You know. We would go to school,
we would passing each other. I was always see like
Felipe Lopez on the train and my grandma was like,
oh my god, I saw Filipe of trying to get
to games to watch, you know, sham God play. I mean,
(02:02):
it was just an excitement in the air. But back
then New York City basketball was like, you know, on
a whole nother level. So it was just like another day,
you know. But I appreciate the love. Man, you know,
that's my life now. My kid, my son is six
years old. He's always like, why are people stopping you?
Do they know you? And it's like, you're the reason
I watched women's basketball.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And what's even crazier is you going from Queens to
the mountains of Knoxville, Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
What was that transition?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Like man sins, it was so hard. I mean, I'm
used to this hopping on the train to get places.
I'm just used to so much diversity. I mean, at first,
as a young person, it was really scary. I'm not
gonna lie. I want to leave asap. This is different.
I need a car to get places. People telling me
I talk too fast. I'm like, you talk too slow.
But the thing was we had they had a secret weapon.
(02:52):
They have pat Summits. And she told me Hall of
Fame coach told me, hey, listen, you're gonna find out
what family's about in sisterhood. And once that ball went up,
she was right. It was just a great community.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I was gonna ask what the pitch was because ain't
no way, Ain't no way. I'm coming from Queens going
to Knoxville. So obviously we know of past legacy and
all of that. She's contributed to women's basketball. As a person, though,
what kind of person was she? Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Amazing person. I mean I miss her and I loved
her so much. I mean, she was gonna get on
your butt. She was gonna make your run, be hard
on you. But as soon as you cross that line,
it was like, hey, are you coming off for dinner?
And at first I thought that was crazy because I
never played for a female coach. All my coaches were men,
so it was a different energy. But just the way
she poured into her players. She just wanted us to
(03:44):
grow up to be strong women, independent women. And I'm
just proud that I had her mentorship. You know.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, three straight national championships. How special was that group
of women?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh amazing? And you know we all keep in contact
and we all are doing amazing things in our lives.
I just think that, you know, back during that time,
you know, great players wanted to play with great players.
You know, it wasn't hard you know, having them say hey, come,
you know, come play with me. You know, people were like, hey,
you guys are great. You know. I got Samika Randa,
I got Tamika Catches, you know, and a bunch of
(04:18):
players to come come to Knoxville to do this thing.
And I think our last year, I want to say
my junior year, I think we went thirty eight and
oh so we ran the table. It was a great feeling.
Everywhere we went. The arenas and gyms were packed, you know,
and it was exciting because we put so much into it.
You know, it was still not at the level that
it's at now, so we were still fighting for our respect.
(04:38):
But yes, we packed a lot of seats in those arenas.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
All right now, we got to keep it a buck,
all right.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Back in the day, Tennessee and Yukon used to be
the Alpha and Omega in women's sooops, and Yukon still
has the same cachet. It's been a long time since
UT was in true title contention. What is it going
to take for the program to rise to that level again?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh man, you have to get have you know, great players.
They gotta get the players there, you know, players that
can play within a system, whatever systems implemented. We got
a young coach the style of play that they're playing
right now. It's something I've never seen before or probably
wanted to experience as a player. But again, like I say, hey,
i'm a fan, now I'm supporting my alma mata. Let's
(05:21):
get it done, you know. And they seem to, you know,
really have a lot of high hopes. We have Olivia,
the young lady that's dunking. You've probably seen her in
high school. We signed her, so I mean, just keep
getting those recruits. Man, you gotta win. That's the bottom
line in Yukon. You know, listen, big rival. I played
one of my best friends played at Yukon, and I'm like,
oh my god, when that game comes around, I hate Yukon,
(05:42):
but I respect Yukon. I respect what Gino has done.
I cut on a television this is the way their
offense moves. It's so pure. So yes, when we have
to compete, yeah, you know, kick their butts, you know.
But other than that, you know, I just love what
they've done for the game.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And I know that Kelly Harper was the hit coach.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We have Kim Callwell, now you just brought her up,
but she's the first one in a long time that's
not a former Lady Vall. What do you think of
the direction that she's taking the programs?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You know, yeah, it's it's it's really it's really tough.
You know. I met Kim several times. I like her.
I like her energy. She's young, she's youthful. But I
will say, you know, the buy in with anybody is
you got to you got to get to the level
that we have in the past or surpass it. You
know what I'm saying. That's that's the thing we're used to.
I mean, I think Kelly might have got Sweet sixteen
in the League eight, and before her, well Holly Warlick,
(06:33):
you know, with them passing on, Holly got to the
League eight. So you know, again to the League A,
it's like cool, it's year after year end. Let's continue
to build, Let's continue to graduate, Let's continue to keep
the players that have helped build this in the loop.
You know, that's one thing about it. It's been a
family environment, you know, and I think they're doing a
good job because we still have people that work at
the university in the athletics that have been there, you know,
(06:56):
went to school with me, so they know what the
family environment is all.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
About I was watching the Internet yesterday and Lonzo Ball
and Michael Porter Junior were on the podcast. I don't
know if you saw it.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yesterday.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Okay, So Lonzo Ball, Michael Porter Junior this podcast yesterday
said that they would have dominated w NBA basketball when
they were in just the eighth and ninth grade. When
you hear that kind of talk, do you think it's
disrespectful or is there some legitimacy to that conversation at all?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So I'm gonna take it back. Eighth and ninth grade, right,
So that's the time because I grew up, I grew
up playing with guys that went on to the NBA.
So I'm thinking about eighth and ninth grade, and there
is about about fifteen years old, you know. Even being
on the court with ron our Test playing against him,
it was that moment where it's just a different physicality,
you know what I'm saying. But as far as like
(07:47):
skills wise, I mean, I've trained, you know, throughout my
career with NBA players and the trainers to tell you, oh,
she's way more skilled than you. But again, you can't
teach the strength a power. That's just where the separation
lies in. But as far as knowledge of the game,
you know, I feel like in some cases women are
right there, if not.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Better, I'll never forget. I saw a video clip one
song where my sweet dear friend Capy Pon Dexter was
busting Sebastian Telfair's ass. It was, it was going at
it and Kapy is it's very different, like you know,
she's yeah, she one of those ones. Always is an
interesting conversation because I do know some women who can hang.
(08:28):
Let's say Ajavon Essence Carson, people that I grew up
with in around right right the court with us, and
they were killers legitimately, so I'm always all.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
My people, but again they got that dog. It's different, man,
you're playing the city. You're playing a city. Man, it's avival.
I can't cry when I get hit in the chest
because guess what, I ain't gonna get picked next time.
You know what I'm saying, I gotta I gotta figure
this out and I gotta compete. You gotta leave it
out there. And you know, Kathy Capy Pon Dexter, I
feel like she's she's one of my favorites. I feel
like she's she doesn't get the respect that that she deserves.
(08:59):
You know what I'm saying, Kathy Kapy was a killer
in essence. That's that's my young and yeah, I've enjoyed
watching her kind of kind of grow. So it's it's awesome.
All great players, ma tee shout out. That's the whole
well Kathy Chicago. But you got the jersey crew over there.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
She want the Rutgers's and I worked for the Mystics too,
so it's like, okay, yeah, it's a lot of synergy
in the whole jersey.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, I got you, I got you, I got you.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Sik We talked a lot on this platform about the
resurgence of women's basketball, right, and what does it mean
for you to kind of see more people interested in
the sport, especially when I can seek for myself.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I don't feel like the talent ever.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Fell off, right, it's just now more people are more
interested in it.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
What do you What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Man? I'm loving this, to be honest, I'm loving this,
these young ladies becoming their own brands, and I think
it just really hit me having a young daughter. My
daughter is three years old, and I just know, like
the opportunities that a lot lie ahead for her, not
just in athletics, but this is kind of like blowing it,
blowing it like wide open. You know. We sit there,
(10:04):
we watch the games, and she's yelling at at Asia
on the television and she's like, oh my god, me, me, me, me,
She's so pretty, and she's showing her that she could
be feminine and also be an athlete. So I just
love how they have taken a deeper dive into the
lives of these young ladies. That's what I'm what I'm
saying when I I remember when I was playing, they
(10:24):
didn't show the walkways, the dress up to the game, right.
I had guy friends that said, oh, man, we gonna
come to the game because you be killing. But man,
all the girls, you know, they they really attracted. I
mean they're not They're not attracted. They all sweaty and stuff.
And I'm like, hold up, man, I'm like, they're playing.
They're playing, just like the dudes in the NBA. They
can knock elbows. But the funniest thing is, I'll never forget.
(10:46):
I was in I was in Atlanta and they my
boys came with me from New York. They came with
me to wait for the players. So they see the
girls when they come out. They said, oh my god,
I didn't know they were so beauty. I said, yes,
people take showers, throwing hills and get dressed up. It
just it's blew their mind and it changed them. They
was like, now, so they see just watching these men
(11:06):
now that I grew up with forty years old, it's like,
oh my god, it's beautiful young ladies and they can hoop.
It's it's just like a craze. Now.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I ain't gonna lie. I mean respectfully, you you you
were one of my precious early on, and then and
then and then it was Kandice Parker, and then it
was Skylar and then it just it just you know,
was sprouted from there. Sorry, I had to just gut
it that. But we do have quite a few leagues
popping up to amplify women's basketball. We have unrivaled Project
(11:36):
B which is slated to start next year.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Rashlo.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Do you think is the more accurate statement. These new
leagues will weaken the w NBA stronghold on women's basketball,
or these new leagues will help grow the game of
women's basketball.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh, I just think it's gonna help grow the game.
I mean, it's it's it's taking it worldwide, right and
on and on different levels, you know, different markets. So
I'm excited to see what it is goes. You know,
I know you have a lot of people right now
with the negotiations and stuff, you know, negative about the
w n b A. I love it that the players
have spoken they standing on business right, and we're going
(12:14):
to see what happens. But the thing about it in
the backdrop is opportunity, opportunity, so you know, keep keep
it going, ladies, keep speaking up, keep taking advantage of everything.
And I'm enjoying a ride as a fan and a supporter.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, what would you like to see happen with the negotiations?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And how kind of crazy is it for you to
see women's basketball players potentially be able to make as
much money as they want to make, right?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I just think if the market is there, Like I
don't know all the ins and outs of it, but
you know, people, if you're making a certain amount of
money and you can pay back the money that you
owe to the NBA and things like that, and there's
this access, you know what I'm saying With now, the
exposure that the league is getting. Salaries have to increase, right.
I don't know how much they should increase because that's
not the business that I'm in, but they gotta increase,
(13:01):
you know what I'm saying. And I just come ind
you know, these young ladies. I think back then, a
lot of people were afraid to say things because you're like,
we should be grateful for this bag right here that
we're getting. But now it's like, no, you know, people
are packing these seats. The value of what the WNBA
team has increased to, right, you know, like three hundred
and something million in my right, like some of these teams.
(13:23):
So yes, I remember when I was playing. I remember
hearing one time, Oh yeah, to get a team it
was like ten million and another man, people see value
on this. So people see value on this. Some salaries
gotta go up.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Pivoting just a little bit. So, you were one of
the first athletes to start the conversation around mental health
and depression. We recently saw Cowboys Marshall Kneeland self transition,
and we just got to do a better job of
keeping a keen eye on some of the things that
are indicators for someone's struggles. So, from your standpoint, are
there any telltale signs that you think give any sort
(13:55):
of clue as to how to spot depression and an
impending mental health crisis.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Oh well, I would say definitely, there's there's signs. But
you know, you're when you're like a professional athlete, right,
that's a whole different thing. You know. I would say,
You know, I could speak to kids and say self isolation,
grades dropping, right, behavior, the mood you know, up and down,
and a list of other things. But you know this
(14:22):
is a person. I follow this story. You know this score.
It seems seems you know, excited, you know about the score,
being a part of a team, and you know, I
know what it's like on the flip side, going and
feeling like you have the world in your hands and
you should be grateful, but you know, struggling and silence
and not wanting people to know. So you learn to
people please, You learn to put on this grave face.
(14:43):
But I just think now, as we move forward as people,
is the human experience? Is it tapping in with the
people that you love? You know? And I remember a
long time ago, my boy Royn tests that no one's
gonna get mad at you for for for saving their life, right,
because people think of the no snitch culture young you know,
younger people, you know you're going through. I'm not gonna
(15:05):
tell anybody. I'm gonna keep it to myself, but nah,
we got we gotta check in. You know people, this
this man, you know, had had a lady. Now he
has a baby that was born on the way. You know,
I know he had lost his mom, you know, uh,
and he was dealing with a lot, and we just
got to make sure it's a it's a constant thing.
You know what I'm saying, how is everybody feeling today?
And you know, hey, do you want to talk to anyone?
(15:27):
And I know it's hard, and especially from the guys
that I talked to in those space spaces of professional sports.
You know, I know it's not macho thing to do,
but you know, we got to get to the point
where these conversations are normalized.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And then you got to throw in social media in that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That just adds a whole different element to all of that.
And that's something that we've seen athletes in recent years
speak out about as well.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Oh man, yes, I couldn't imagine like if I was
playing in social media it was was as big as
it was and me going through my challenges. I know,
for me, like I'm someone that lives with like social aside.
So y'all, y'all got me on a good day because
I typically don't do a lot of like podcasts and
stuff because it's like, you know, socially, I struggle with
(16:14):
some things. And I know, like recently in the last
two years, it has been like being in you know,
crowded places, I'm looking for the exit sign. That's things
I have to work through in my life. And I
speak on that because a lot of people don't know
that about me because they see me as such social
environments or things where I seem like I'm the life
of the party. But that's a skill I work towards that.
(16:36):
You know, I'm talking to my therapist. I'm trying to
find do breath work to make sure, all right, I
gotta be here. It's gonna be thousands of people. All Right,
I'm here for an hour and I can pour into people.
But as soon as I leave that stage or whatever,
you know, I'm like, okay, like trying to regulate and
self regulate. So for people that have these challenges, you know,
it's one day at a time. You know, it's my
(16:57):
wife checking in on me. Make sure I'm good my
community that I built, you know, because I've been so
vocal about these things.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
All right, we'll leave the heavy stuff. I think we
did a good job of dressing somebody. Let's get back
to some fun stuff. So in my head right now,
I have three Hoopers that I have always marveled at
their games. Right, I just think that they defined to
me the versatile hooper and women's basketball. Yourself, of course,
(17:25):
is going to be included on that list. So we
got Mikah's claw, We got Cannas Parker, we had Diana Torosi.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Three three different generations, right right, But Cole, define the
time period? Who are you taking amongst those three? You
know what, I'm sorry, I gotta throw on Simone Augustus.
I gotta throw oh my god, because she her game
was just it was od, it was de man.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I gotta let me tell you, I love people. Know
if I'm always like to my boys, and I stand
on this, I'm like, man, if I gotta go, you know,
to the to the courts in New York. You know
what I'm saying, the games? All who am I taking
with me? I'm like Diana Tarassi, right, just because she
she talked that talk can she talked that and she
back it up and she cooked. But as far as
like overall game, man, I'm just I'm gonna have to
(18:13):
go with my girl Candace Parker because she made me
realize the game has changed. She probably doesn't remember this,
but we were talking. You know, she's playing San Antonio.
She in La. Before the game, were sitting there just
catching up, you know, Tennessee homies. And then game started.
I remember I scored, right, this is at the end
of my career. And then she caught the ball. I'm
guarding her on the switch. She caught the ball ice
(18:34):
so and she scored so quick. I didn't know what happened.
And I was like, yeah, what is she just doing?
I'm thinking of the footwork. And I went and I'll
never forget. I called with my friends. I'm like, man,
the game has changed. She different.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
She did, Okay, I have one too.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I recently did this on our platform, but I talked
about how I feel like Tennessee is overlooked as one
of the greatest women's basketball programs of all time. Right,
people always go to Yukon, but I'm like, y'all missing
out because Tennessee has the longest active streak for NC
double A appearances.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right, do you agree with me? I know you're biased.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Nah, I agree with you, but come on, we know
our society we prisoners of the moment, you know, Like
unfortunately coach Summ is not with us. So it's like,
all right, people, some of these kids don't even know
who Pat sum it is, you know, and she kind
of cracked the door open for women's college basketball, women's
sports in general. I would say, you know, what they
see now is Yukon Yukon and their success, which they
(19:34):
deserve and Geno. So yeah, man, I think you Tennessee,
you know, we this this ou thing.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
It is what's bringing you joy and happiness right now.
I would imagine his family, but.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Man, just I would say, just a human experience, experience,
you know, connecting with people. I feel like I'm just
so blessed. I'm really thankful. I'm a woman of faith.
I think that, you know, God closed one door and
just like open up my life. Someone asked me last week,
you know what'sh your legacy? And you know, I thought
about it, and I said, wow, I thought about it
(20:09):
some more and I told somebody, I said, I could
take you know, we'll say the fifty something states in
this country, right with fifty four states, and I can
put that down and I could be dead and gone,
and I can probably have someone from every state speak
about me and how I impacted and touched their lives
and not nothing to do with basketball, but what I'm
doing now. And so I'm grateful. I'm grateful to be
(20:31):
able to show up as my authentic self. I'm grateful
for my kids, you know, and my health and them
being able to see how I'm able to impact people
without even driveling to basketball, because they went to Tennessee
and they saw like how many fans and how many
people love what I did, but they on the day
to day, you know, it's Ms holst Car thank you
(20:52):
for you know, mentoring my son. He was having a
tough time and me having to talk to my son
what that means. But he's already a step ahead because
nowadays in these schools they speak to these young kids
about mindfulness, techniques, meditation and stressing. So he's like, okay,
he was a little stressed out. Did he do his
dragon breast? So I'm just I'm just loving life right now. Man,
(21:13):
I'm really I'm really just grateful and to be in
my right mindset, you know. And I speak of that
because for someone that you know lives with bipolar, it
could be so many different extremes, you know. But I
got the help that I needed. I hold myself accountable
and I just want to be the best, best person,
the best best mom, best wife that I can be.
(21:34):
And you know that takes for me showing up on
a daily.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
For for somebody who is dealing with a diagnosis of
a similar caliber, how should those around them show up
and love them? Because sometimes that's a that's a huge challenge.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yes, yes, you're You're right. No one wants to feel
like they're broken. I'm gonna say that. You know, my mother,
she's I tried to help her, try to fix it,
they try to fix it. It was something where I
just needed to know that, Hey, you know, I'm here
for you when you need me, you know, because it's
a lie. It's like being tormented. It's like two different,
two different, you know, opposites. I'm I'm extremely hot, then
(22:10):
I can't get out of bed, and I'm just like
you know, isolating, myself. But I just remember, you know,
that person, and that's been for me in my life.
That was just like you know what, I'm here, I'm here,
I love you. When you want to talk, I'm here.
And that was so constant that one day I just
showed up with that person and just let everything go.
And they've been a big part of my healing journey,
(22:31):
you know. But families be patient. It's really it's really
really difficult. Like I isolated so much, you know, it's
like the intervention. Whenever I felt my family got close,
I was gone, you know. And you know, I damaged
a lot of relationships because I didn't know how to
deal with the inner turmoil. And as soon as I
work through that, I got healthier, and you know, I
(22:52):
tried to make amends, but unfortunately, some people don't in
this country, in this world, don't believe mental health issues
are real, you know. So then I had to understan
than that. But I have to continue going forth and
just trying to be better. Samiko, again, thank.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You so much for coming on with us. I know
that you don't do podcasts. We are so grateful to
have you on. You've got to come back on though,
Like we gotta have going to talk more women's basketball
because we really couldn't get into it today, right, but
thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, let's do it at anytime. Let me know you'all
beautiful people. Have a great holiday season, you know, and
it goes down in the deep
But as far as like skills wise, I mean, I've trained,
you know, throughout my career with NBA players and the
trainers that tell you, oh, she's way more skilled than you.
But again, you can't teach the strength the power. That's
just where the separation lies in. But as far as
knowledge of the game, you know, I feel like in
some cases women are right there, not better.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
All right, we have a very special guest on the
show with us today, and the accolades are so long.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
She garnered Player of the Year honors at.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Every single level, two time Natesmith Player of the Year,
three time NCAA champion at Tennessee, number one overall.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Draft pick, w NBA Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
She's an Olympic gold medalist, she's a Hall of Famer,
and she's my starar Please welcome the one and only
Shamikua host Law to the Fumble.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What an honor. It is a happy Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Thank you. Everyone appreciate that. I appreciate the love.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Man, Shamika. You were the first women's superstar that I
was invested in. So backstory, I swear to god, I
went to Columbia High School, right and we had this
legendary basketball coach, Johanna Wright. She was the first basketball
coach of the women's McDonald's game, the first time women
were allowed into the game, and so we had a
fondness and a level of respect for women hoopers. But
(01:17):
Shamikua holse Claus name just stood above everybody else's. And
that nineteen ninety five class in New York City, which
was Stefan Marlbury, God, sham God and yourself was like
the whole trinity of basketball from my purview growing up.
Did you feel like the superstar that we all felt
like you were? How did that feel coming up with
(01:39):
all those eyeballs and attention just on you.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Like that man growing up in New York City, and
like you said, just with the hype of everything that
was going on with basketball. Honestly, it was just like
a normal day. You know. We would go to school,
we would passing each other. I was always see like
Felipe Lopez on the train and my grandma was like,
oh my god, I saw Filipe of trying to get
to games to watch, you know, sham God play. I mean,
(02:02):
it was just an excitement in the air. But back
then New York City basketball was like, you know, on
a whole nother level. So it was just like another day,
you know. But I appreciate the love. Man, you know,
that's my life now. My kid, my son is six
years old. He's always like, why are people stopping you?
Do they know you? And it's like, you're the reason
I watched women's basketball.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And what's even crazier is you going from Queens to
the mountains of Knoxville, Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
What was that transition?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Like man sins, it was so hard. I mean, I'm
used to this hopping on the train to get places.
I'm just used to so much diversity. I mean, at first,
as a young person, it was really scary. I'm not
gonna lie. I want to leave asap. This is different.
I need a car to get places. People telling me
I talk too fast. I'm like, you talk too slow.
But the thing was we had they had a secret weapon.
(02:52):
They have pat Summits. And she told me Hall of
Fame coach told me, hey, listen, you're gonna find out
what family's about in sisterhood. And once that ball went up,
she was right. It was just a great community.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I was gonna ask what the pitch was because ain't
no way, Ain't no way. I'm coming from Queens going
to Knoxville. So obviously we know of past legacy and
all of that. She's contributed to women's basketball. As a person, though,
what kind of person was she? Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Amazing person. I mean I miss her and I loved
her so much. I mean, she was gonna get on
your butt. She was gonna make your run, be hard
on you. But as soon as you cross that line,
it was like, hey, are you coming off for dinner?
And at first I thought that was crazy because I
never played for a female coach. All my coaches were men,
so it was a different energy. But just the way
she poured into her players. She just wanted us to
(03:44):
grow up to be strong women, independent women. And I'm
just proud that I had her mentorship. You know.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, three straight national championships. How special was that group
of women?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh amazing? And you know we all keep in contact
and we all are doing amazing things in our lives.
I just think that, you know, back during that time,
you know, great players wanted to play with great players.
You know, it wasn't hard you know, having them say hey, come,
you know, come play with me. You know, people were like, hey,
you guys are great. You know. I got Samika Randa,
I got Tamika Catches, you know, and a bunch of
(04:18):
players to come come to Knoxville to do this thing.
And I think our last year, I want to say
my junior year, I think we went thirty eight and
oh so we ran the table. It was a great feeling.
Everywhere we went. The arenas and gyms were packed, you know,
and it was exciting because we put so much into it.
You know, it was still not at the level that
it's at now, so we were still fighting for our respect.
(04:38):
But yes, we packed a lot of seats in those arenas.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
All right now, we got to keep it a buck,
all right.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Back in the day, Tennessee and Yukon used to be
the Alpha and Omega in women's sooops, and Yukon still
has the same cachet. It's been a long time since
UT was in true title contention. What is it going
to take for the program to rise to that level again?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh man, you have to get have you know, great players.
They gotta get the players there, you know, players that
can play within a system, whatever systems implemented. We got
a young coach the style of play that they're playing
right now. It's something I've never seen before or probably
wanted to experience as a player. But again, like I say, hey,
i'm a fan, now I'm supporting my alma mata. Let's
(05:21):
get it done, you know. And they seem to, you know,
really have a lot of high hopes. We have Olivia,
the young lady that's dunking. You've probably seen her in
high school. We signed her, so I mean, just keep
getting those recruits. Man, you gotta win. That's the bottom
line in Yukon. You know, listen, big rival. I played
one of my best friends played at Yukon, and I'm like,
oh my god, when that game comes around, I hate Yukon,
(05:42):
but I respect Yukon. I respect what Gino has done.
I cut on a television this is the way their
offense moves. It's so pure. So yes, when we have
to compete, yeah, you know, kick their butts, you know.
But other than that, you know, I just love what
they've done for the game.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And I know that Kelly Harper was the hit coach.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We have Kim Callwell, now you just brought her up,
but she's the first one in a long time that's
not a former Lady Vall. What do you think of
the direction that she's taking the programs?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You know, yeah, it's it's it's really it's really tough.
You know. I met Kim several times. I like her.
I like her energy. She's young, she's youthful. But I
will say, you know, the buy in with anybody is
you got to you got to get to the level
that we have in the past or surpass it. You
know what I'm saying. That's that's the thing we're used to.
I mean, I think Kelly might have got Sweet sixteen
in the League eight, and before her, well Holly Warlick,
(06:33):
you know, with them passing on, Holly got to the
League eight. So you know, again to the League A,
it's like cool, it's year after year end. Let's continue
to build, Let's continue to graduate, Let's continue to keep
the players that have helped build this in the loop.
You know, that's one thing about it. It's been a
family environment, you know, and I think they're doing a
good job because we still have people that work at
the university in the athletics that have been there, you know,
(06:56):
went to school with me, so they know what the
family environment is all.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
About I was watching the Internet yesterday and Lonzo Ball
and Michael Porter Junior were on the podcast. I don't
know if you saw it.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yesterday.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Okay, So Lonzo Ball, Michael Porter Junior this podcast yesterday
said that they would have dominated w NBA basketball when
they were in just the eighth and ninth grade. When
you hear that kind of talk, do you think it's
disrespectful or is there some legitimacy to that conversation at all?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So I'm gonna take it back. Eighth and ninth grade, right,
So that's the time because I grew up, I grew
up playing with guys that went on to the NBA.
So I'm thinking about eighth and ninth grade, and there
is about about fifteen years old, you know. Even being
on the court with ron our Test playing against him,
it was that moment where it's just a different physicality,
you know what I'm saying. But as far as like
(07:47):
skills wise, I mean, I've trained, you know, throughout my
career with NBA players and the trainers to tell you, oh,
she's way more skilled than you. But again, you can't
teach the strength a power. That's just where the separation
lies in. But as far as knowledge of the game,
you know, I feel like in some cases women are
right there, if not.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Better, I'll never forget. I saw a video clip one
song where my sweet dear friend Capy Pon Dexter was
busting Sebastian Telfair's ass. It was, it was going at
it and Kapy is it's very different, like you know,
she's yeah, she one of those ones. Always is an
interesting conversation because I do know some women who can hang.
(08:28):
Let's say Ajavon Essence Carson, people that I grew up
with in around right right the court with us, and
they were killers legitimately, so I'm always all.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
My people, but again they got that dog. It's different, man,
you're playing the city. You're playing a city. Man, it's avival.
I can't cry when I get hit in the chest
because guess what, I ain't gonna get picked next time.
You know what I'm saying, I gotta I gotta figure
this out and I gotta compete. You gotta leave it
out there. And you know, Kathy Capy Pon Dexter, I
feel like she's she's one of my favorites. I feel
like she's she doesn't get the respect that that she deserves.
(08:59):
You know what I'm saying, Kathy Kapy was a killer
in essence. That's that's my young and yeah, I've enjoyed
watching her kind of kind of grow. So it's it's awesome.
All great players, ma tee shout out. That's the whole
well Kathy Chicago. But you got the jersey crew over there.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
She want the Rutgers's and I worked for the Mystics too,
so it's like, okay, yeah, it's a lot of synergy
in the whole jersey.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, I got you, I got you, I got you.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Sik We talked a lot on this platform about the
resurgence of women's basketball, right, and what does it mean
for you to kind of see more people interested in
the sport, especially when I can seek for myself.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I don't feel like the talent ever.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Fell off, right, it's just now more people are more
interested in it.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
What do you What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Man? I'm loving this, to be honest, I'm loving this,
these young ladies becoming their own brands, and I think
it just really hit me having a young daughter. My
daughter is three years old, and I just know, like
the opportunities that a lot lie ahead for her, not
just in athletics, but this is kind of like blowing it,
blowing it like wide open. You know. We sit there,
(10:04):
we watch the games, and she's yelling at at Asia
on the television and she's like, oh my god, me, me, me, me,
She's so pretty, and she's showing her that she could
be feminine and also be an athlete. So I just
love how they have taken a deeper dive into the
lives of these young ladies. That's what I'm what I'm
saying when I I remember when I was playing, they
(10:24):
didn't show the walkways, the dress up to the game, right.
I had guy friends that said, oh, man, we gonna
come to the game because you be killing. But man,
all the girls, you know, they they really attracted. I
mean they're not They're not attracted. They all sweaty and stuff.
And I'm like, hold up, man, I'm like, they're playing.
They're playing, just like the dudes in the NBA. They
can knock elbows. But the funniest thing is, I'll never forget.
(10:46):
I was in I was in Atlanta and they my
boys came with me from New York. They came with
me to wait for the players. So they see the
girls when they come out. They said, oh my god,
I didn't know they were so beauty. I said, yes,
people take showers, throwing hills and get dressed up. It
just it's blew their mind and it changed them. They
was like, now, so they see just watching these men
(11:06):
now that I grew up with forty years old, it's like,
oh my god, it's beautiful young ladies and they can hoop.
It's it's just like a craze. Now.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I ain't gonna lie. I mean respectfully, you you you
were one of my precious early on, and then and
then and then it was Kandice Parker, and then it
was Skylar and then it just it just you know,
was sprouted from there. Sorry, I had to just gut
it that. But we do have quite a few leagues
popping up to amplify women's basketball. We have unrivaled Project
(11:36):
B which is slated to start next year.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Rashlo.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Do you think is the more accurate statement. These new
leagues will weaken the w NBA stronghold on women's basketball,
or these new leagues will help grow the game of
women's basketball.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh, I just think it's gonna help grow the game.
I mean, it's it's it's taking it worldwide, right and
on and on different levels, you know, different markets. So
I'm excited to see what it is goes. You know,
I know you have a lot of people right now
with the negotiations and stuff, you know, negative about the
w n b A. I love it that the players
have spoken they standing on business right, and we're going
(12:14):
to see what happens. But the thing about it in
the backdrop is opportunity, opportunity, so you know, keep keep
it going, ladies, keep speaking up, keep taking advantage of everything.
And I'm enjoying a ride as a fan and a supporter.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, what would you like to see happen with the negotiations?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And how kind of crazy is it for you to
see women's basketball players potentially be able to make as
much money as they want to make, right?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I just think if the market is there, Like I
don't know all the ins and outs of it, but
you know, people, if you're making a certain amount of
money and you can pay back the money that you
owe to the NBA and things like that, and there's
this access, you know what I'm saying With now, the
exposure that the league is getting. Salaries have to increase, right.
I don't know how much they should increase because that's
not the business that I'm in, but they gotta increase,
(13:01):
you know what I'm saying. And I just come ind
you know, these young ladies. I think back then, a
lot of people were afraid to say things because you're like,
we should be grateful for this bag right here that
we're getting. But now it's like, no, you know, people
are packing these seats. The value of what the WNBA
team has increased to, right, you know, like three hundred
and something million in my right, like some of these teams.
(13:23):
So yes, I remember when I was playing. I remember
hearing one time, Oh yeah, to get a team it
was like ten million and another man, people see value
on this. So people see value on this. Some salaries
gotta go up.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Pivoting just a little bit. So, you were one of
the first athletes to start the conversation around mental health
and depression. We recently saw Cowboys Marshall Kneeland self transition,
and we just got to do a better job of
keeping a keen eye on some of the things that
are indicators for someone's struggles. So, from your standpoint, are
there any telltale signs that you think give any sort
(13:55):
of clue as to how to spot depression and an
impending mental health crisis.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Oh well, I would say definitely, there's there's signs. But
you know, you're when you're like a professional athlete, right,
that's a whole different thing. You know. I would say,
You know, I could speak to kids and say self isolation,
grades dropping, right, behavior, the mood you know, up and down,
and a list of other things. But you know this
(14:22):
is a person. I follow this story. You know this score.
It seems seems you know, excited, you know about the score,
being a part of a team, and you know, I
know what it's like on the flip side, going and
feeling like you have the world in your hands and
you should be grateful, but you know, struggling and silence
and not wanting people to know. So you learn to
people please, You learn to put on this grave face.
(14:43):
But I just think now, as we move forward as people,
is the human experience? Is it tapping in with the
people that you love? You know? And I remember a
long time ago, my boy Royn tests that no one's
gonna get mad at you for for for saving their life, right,
because people think of the no snitch culture young you know,
younger people, you know you're going through. I'm not gonna
(15:05):
tell anybody. I'm gonna keep it to myself, but nah,
we got we gotta check in. You know people, this
this man, you know, had had a lady. Now he
has a baby that was born on the way. You know,
I know he had lost his mom, you know, uh,
and he was dealing with a lot, and we just
got to make sure it's a it's a constant thing.
You know what I'm saying, how is everybody feeling today?
And you know, hey, do you want to talk to anyone?
(15:27):
And I know it's hard, and especially from the guys
that I talked to in those space spaces of professional sports.
You know, I know it's not macho thing to do,
but you know, we got to get to the point
where these conversations are normalized.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And then you got to throw in social media in that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That just adds a whole different element to all of that.
And that's something that we've seen athletes in recent years
speak out about as well.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Oh man, yes, I couldn't imagine like if I was
playing in social media it was was as big as
it was and me going through my challenges. I know,
for me, like I'm someone that lives with like social aside.
So y'all, y'all got me on a good day because
I typically don't do a lot of like podcasts and
stuff because it's like, you know, socially, I struggle with
(16:14):
some things. And I know, like recently in the last
two years, it has been like being in you know,
crowded places, I'm looking for the exit sign. That's things
I have to work through in my life. And I
speak on that because a lot of people don't know
that about me because they see me as such social
environments or things where I seem like I'm the life
of the party. But that's a skill I work towards that.
(16:36):
You know, I'm talking to my therapist. I'm trying to
find do breath work to make sure, all right, I
gotta be here. It's gonna be thousands of people. All Right,
I'm here for an hour and I can pour into people.
But as soon as I leave that stage or whatever,
you know, I'm like, okay, like trying to regulate and
self regulate. So for people that have these challenges, you know,
it's one day at a time. You know, it's my
(16:57):
wife checking in on me. Make sure I'm good my
community that I built, you know, because I've been so
vocal about these things.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
All right, we'll leave the heavy stuff. I think we
did a good job of dressing somebody. Let's get back
to some fun stuff. So in my head right now,
I have three Hoopers that I have always marveled at
their games. Right, I just think that they defined to
me the versatile hooper and women's basketball. Yourself, of course,
(17:25):
is going to be included on that list. So we
got Mikah's claw, We got Cannas Parker, we had Diana Torosi.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Three three different generations, right right, But Cole, define the
time period? Who are you taking amongst those three? You
know what, I'm sorry, I gotta throw on Simone Augustus.
I gotta throw oh my god, because she her game
was just it was od, it was de man.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I gotta let me tell you, I love people. Know
if I'm always like to my boys, and I stand
on this, I'm like, man, if I gotta go, you know,
to the to the courts in New York. You know
what I'm saying, the games? All who am I taking
with me? I'm like Diana Tarassi, right, just because she
she talked that talk can she talked that and she
back it up and she cooked. But as far as
like overall game, man, I'm just I'm gonna have to
(18:13):
go with my girl Candace Parker because she made me
realize the game has changed. She probably doesn't remember this,
but we were talking. You know, she's playing San Antonio.
She in La. Before the game, were sitting there just
catching up, you know, Tennessee homies. And then game started.
I remember I scored, right, this is at the end
of my career. And then she caught the ball. I'm
guarding her on the switch. She caught the ball ice
(18:34):
so and she scored so quick. I didn't know what happened.
And I was like, yeah, what is she just doing?
I'm thinking of the footwork. And I went and I'll
never forget. I called with my friends. I'm like, man,
the game has changed. She different.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
She did, Okay, I have one too.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I recently did this on our platform, but I talked
about how I feel like Tennessee is overlooked as one
of the greatest women's basketball programs of all time. Right,
people always go to Yukon, but I'm like, y'all missing
out because Tennessee has the longest active streak for NC
double A appearances.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right, do you agree with me? I know you're biased.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Nah, I agree with you, but come on, we know
our society we prisoners of the moment, you know, Like
unfortunately coach Summ is not with us. So it's like,
all right, people, some of these kids don't even know
who Pat sum it is, you know, and she kind
of cracked the door open for women's college basketball, women's
sports in general. I would say, you know, what they
see now is Yukon Yukon and their success, which they
(19:34):
deserve and Geno. So yeah, man, I think you Tennessee,
you know, we this this ou thing.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
It is what's bringing you joy and happiness right now.
I would imagine his family, but.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Man, just I would say, just a human experience, experience,
you know, connecting with people. I feel like I'm just
so blessed. I'm really thankful. I'm a woman of faith.
I think that, you know, God closed one door and
just like open up my life. Someone asked me last week,
you know what'sh your legacy? And you know, I thought
about it, and I said, wow, I thought about it
(20:09):
some more and I told somebody, I said, I could
take you know, we'll say the fifty something states in
this country, right with fifty four states, and I can
put that down and I could be dead and gone,
and I can probably have someone from every state speak
about me and how I impacted and touched their lives
and not nothing to do with basketball, but what I'm
doing now. And so I'm grateful. I'm grateful to be
(20:31):
able to show up as my authentic self. I'm grateful
for my kids, you know, and my health and them
being able to see how I'm able to impact people
without even driveling to basketball, because they went to Tennessee
and they saw like how many fans and how many
people love what I did, but they on the day
to day, you know, it's Ms holst Car thank you
(20:52):
for you know, mentoring my son. He was having a
tough time and me having to talk to my son
what that means. But he's already a step ahead because
nowadays in these schools they speak to these young kids
about mindfulness, techniques, meditation and stressing. So he's like, okay,
he was a little stressed out. Did he do his
dragon breast? So I'm just I'm just loving life right now. Man,
(21:13):
I'm really I'm really just grateful and to be in
my right mindset, you know. And I speak of that
because for someone that you know lives with bipolar, it
could be so many different extremes, you know. But I
got the help that I needed. I hold myself accountable
and I just want to be the best, best person,
the best best mom, best wife that I can be.
(21:34):
And you know that takes for me showing up on
a daily.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
For for somebody who is dealing with a diagnosis of
a similar caliber, how should those around them show up
and love them? Because sometimes that's a that's a huge challenge.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yes, yes, you're You're right. No one wants to feel
like they're broken. I'm gonna say that. You know, my mother,
she's I tried to help her, try to fix it,
they try to fix it. It was something where I
just needed to know that, Hey, you know, I'm here
for you when you need me, you know, because it's
a lie. It's like being tormented. It's like two different,
two different, you know, opposites. I'm I'm extremely hot, then
(22:10):
I can't get out of bed, and I'm just like
you know, isolating, myself. But I just remember, you know,
that person, and that's been for me in my life.
That was just like you know what, I'm here, I'm here,
I love you. When you want to talk, I'm here.
And that was so constant that one day I just
showed up with that person and just let everything go.
And they've been a big part of my healing journey,
(22:31):
you know. But families be patient. It's really it's really
really difficult. Like I isolated so much, you know, it's
like the intervention. Whenever I felt my family got close,
I was gone, you know. And you know, I damaged
a lot of relationships because I didn't know how to
deal with the inner turmoil. And as soon as I
work through that, I got healthier, and you know, I
(22:52):
tried to make amends, but unfortunately, some people don't in
this country, in this world, don't believe mental health issues
are real, you know. So then I had to understan
than that. But I have to continue going forth and
just trying to be better. Samiko, again, thank.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You so much for coming on with us. I know
that you don't do podcasts. We are so grateful to
have you on. You've got to come back on though,
Like we gotta have going to talk more women's basketball
because we really couldn't get into it today, right, but
thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, let's do it at anytime. Let me know you'all
beautiful people. Have a great holiday season, you know, and
it goes down in the deep
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