September 22, 2024 • 24 mins
It’s been almost three years since Dan shared his story about The Glitch. So, what’s happened with him since? Is the movie ever coming out? Does he have money stashed in the backyard? Is he still a bit dodgy? All of this and more is revealed in this new episode, recorded in September 2024.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
That a mates.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
While I've got your attention, I just thought I might
like to communicate a few things to you. Communication is key,
as you know, and sometimes if I feel things, I
need to express them because even though they're not acted on.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
It's been a minute since we last sat down with
a bloke called Dan Saunders and heard all about the
amazing story of his ATM glitch where he was able
to borrow hashtag steal over a million dollars from a bank,
can spend it in four months on coconhookers and other
fun stuff. Dan dubbed himself in, went to jail, and
(00:54):
then ended up telling me about it all in a
podcast back in February of twenty twenty two. Since then,
Dan and I have become mates. To be honest, I
feel like I got the raw end of the deal.
I mean, if I knew Dan back when the glitch
was going on, then things would have been a damn
site more fun. But I also might have ended.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Up in jail.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
The first thing I feel to say is I hope
you're well, and I hope the family as well.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I hope that it's going well and the business is good,
and yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Everything's fucking homewards and upwards because I always wish that could.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
So under the promise of a free Nando's meal, Dan
jumped on a train from a mystery location and came
up to our studios in Brisbane's Fortitude Valley, which is
pretty close to where we recorded the first time we ever.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Met Amazing Jay. Yeah, you've got your own studio.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
Yeah, I know, yeah, we didn't have that when we
first started.
Speaker 7 (01:48):
I just say you're a new studio and like you know,
he's articular on pretty well.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Let's have to go to Sidney Galore New Cash.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Good to see that you're still the joky guy that
we knew of from the glitch.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Dan.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
So I want to just set some timelines here because it.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Has been probably about three years since we spoke, so
this will all happen. The glitch happened in twenty eleven
for anyone that hasn't gone back and listened to the
previous eleven episodes. But essentially, you were able to work
out with your credit card that you're able to transfer
money from your from your credit card to your savings account,
(02:24):
take the money out, and then continually do that over
a space of four or five months.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Right, how much money did you get?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
But allegedly six million dollars? Well that's what that's what
you say. But you owe how much? I yeah, do
you wwe anything of the moment?
Speaker 5 (02:41):
You don't like if you don't ask you Okay, you
had to COVID shot, Yeah sure, yeah.
Speaker 8 (02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So twenty eleven the incident happened, twenty fifteen you went
to jail for a year, and twenty sixteen you got out.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
So it's almost like it's almost ten years since you
went to jail for this glitch. Right, Yeah, it's been
a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
I always say that I'm just a you know, for
really average bloke with it over your story, Like that's
that's the way I describe my stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Let's stop.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
It's been a long time, you know, five years, you know,
three or four years since we actually recorded in the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Does anyone even listen to this stuff? They do?
Speaker 6 (03:21):
Yeah, like millions of people have listened to it.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
And you know this right because randomly you get texts
and messages from all.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Over the world, right, yeah, yeah, well you got a
lot of texts. I mean just obviously people who have
listened to the story and they enjoy the story.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And all that kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
But again a little of text from people who have
had their own bank glitches.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Dance story is made for social media from Tiktoker's fun fact.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
While on a Nato drinking Dan Saunders went to use ATM.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
He transferred two hundred dollars from his credit account to
his savings account.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
The ATM sed instagrammers this.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Man found a real life money glitch and became a
millionaire over night.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
In twenty eleven, Dan Saunders was out on YouTubers.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
This man discovered an infinite money glitch.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
This this is Dan Sanders.
Speaker 8 (04:06):
One night at two am, he stopped by an ATM
to take out some cash.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
He transferred two hundred dollars from his credit cards.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
And even some of Australia's best horse racing jockeys like
Damian Lane loves the story of Dan and the glitch.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
You've got some podcasts you.
Speaker 8 (04:25):
Yeah, there's a really good one about it Buds from
Jams that Must and it is a great listen, he said,
not about Country Guy. They come across a lot of
money really quickly, has really good fun.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
And that's the reason we wanted to do this episode.
For us, it was about finding out some of the
questions that everyone kept asking, and for Dan, I think
he just wanted the free nandos. This is made for YouTube, right,
Like the amount of times I've seen the Glitch story
told in different languages right around the world, and we'll
(05:06):
occasionally text each other with, oh, how did you see this?
Do you get noticed that.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I don't get noticed?
Speaker 5 (05:12):
And that's kind of like someone actually told me about
me the other day.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Someone told you a story about this dude, did you.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And I'm like, oh, what's the card? And he's like
the Glitch.
Speaker 7 (05:22):
I'm like, okay, I'll get on with He goes, Yeah,
it's about this guy.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Yeah, he went here, and he went there and he
you know, got the money off the bank and on
the pass.
Speaker 7 (05:31):
That's pretty Yeah, sounds pretty interesting.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
But that was Yeah, I mean stuff like that's weird
for someone to come up to you and obviously they
know the.
Speaker 7 (05:38):
Story, but I don't really know who I am.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
Yeah, I think that's great because it literally could have
happened to anyone. Yeah, it's not just me. It's the
fact that it could have happened to anyone. And I
feel like there's been a lot of emphasis on me
through the storytelling, but.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's actually quite serious. Like if a guy.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Who's just an normal dude with an ATM card can
get this amount of money off a national bank and
they don't want to know, particularly where it's coming from,
like what happened with it, they're just prepared to obviously
walk away. You reckon, there's not more people out there
who've got away with a glitch like this and just
walked off into the sunset and.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Not told anyone. Right, I've not been stupid enough to
go to a current affair.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
If the ACM glitch happened to you today, do you
think you'd react differently?
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Like, so, have you ever got that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Vibe where you've been out midnight, you're around, don't have
anybody left because you've got no money?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Ever tried anything like that again if you were to.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
I'm always curious for different things, but I'm not. Yeah,
I'm not sort of in that mindset where I'm going
to go and do something. I know that it is
fundamentally the wrong thing to do, but just myself, not
because I'm going to get caught or anything like that,
just because I don't want to lose myself like that.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Again.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yeah, Yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I just don't
want to lose who I am because you know, I
I like being average mate. I don't need to be
you know, like this flashy guy with lots of money
and you know Nasarati's and you know, just I don't
need to be that.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
What are the messages you get on socials from people
like that know that it was you as anyone reached
out since the podcast and since the news sort of
broke around.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Hey Dan, yeah they range.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
I mean it's if you live in Australia and you're
a group of mates, you'll know that you don't need
sort of enemies when you've got these mates because everything
negative that's on the internet, that will screenshot it and.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
That's go too.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
So I'll just be waiting for, you know, to see
the podiatrist and they will just know it'll just pop
up in the group chat and they'll be like, yeah,
this bloke from Canada, I thinks you're an absolute nob
and I'll just be like, yeah.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Go bo for justin Indick, you know, like I wouldn't find.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
It, but they just you know, my actual favorite anyone's
that I said, he's in a It's in a apple
Apple iTunes review of the glitch yep and it says
I had to turn it off because it sounds like
two autistic people talking to each other that Blake was
from the UK, and I was like, that's good, that's
(08:21):
a double pay.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's so the best stuff is the positive stuff.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
People a message and they say that was amazing you
did that. Why didn't you, you know, sort of walk away.
You know, why didn't you just forget about it and
not tell anyone?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And you know, so I sort.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Of just going to explain exactly what happened at that
time and why I didn't and why I felt that,
you know, like I was losing my peace of mind.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, so that's the free stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Has there anyone reached out from those days now and gone,
hey Dan remember me?
Speaker 5 (08:53):
I was, Yeah, a few people, a few people sort
of around one or other. So a few people in
warang have sort of reached out. But then, yeah, like
the stories from the town, apparently it's quite well known
in the.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Town, the story.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
So yeah, a few people from one Garrata sort of said, oh,
you know that you've been in the paper year and
stuff and in our era sort of talks about it.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
But I don't know that's true. You put Wangaratta on
the map, Well hopefully we will, right.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
So if there's a movie one, Garada is going to
be front and the center.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, there's going to be like a Seinfeld to anyway.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
But normally are those types of movies, like if at
San Francisco you'll see shots of the bridge and those
sorts of things. What's the what's the landmark spot in
wang Apex Park?
Speaker 5 (09:37):
There's just going to be a big drone footage of
Apex Park and it's just yeah, I mean, you're gonna
get down the bull's head, You're going to go at
the commercial. You just can add a very good time.
Just get down a way and get down to the races,
just really embrace it all.
Speaker 9 (09:54):
Here we are in the rural city of Wangaratta. We're
two hundred and sixty kilometers northeast of Melbourne in the
amazing rural city of Wangarada. So come a nixt floor
where my family.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
So the question that we get all the time on
social media and when we talk to people about your story,
is Stan spent all this money on things you didn't
need a receipt for coke hookers, those types of things right. Generally,
don't get receipts for those. Surely he put money, hid
(10:34):
money in the sand or in the bush, or did
a melissic attic and you know has hidden it somewhere.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Well, I mean, the only thing I'd say is that
it's not it's not. Of course there's more of the story,
but it's not in my best interests to just lay
it all on the table.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And there's really no point. I mean, some pen.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Push in some office somewhere, it's going to go, oh yeah, right,
that's what he did.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So we're going to do this.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Ultimately, if a banker gets money out of his customers,
he's seen as like that's good business. If I or
anyone else as a crack at a bank, it's not
fair game. So if I said to you, hey, yeah,
I've got you know, this account here and it's got
(11:22):
this much in it, but what's the point. I mean,
it's all level playing field. If it was all fair
and you could just say, yeah, I stitched them up
and this is why I did, and nothing, you know,
no consequences would come, then.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Great, I'd tell you. But otherwise, what's the point.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Did you have any troubles getting if you do have
a bank account. Now, do you have any troubles getting
a bank account?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Really?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
I think I think I can't transfer money between my accounts.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
That's a smart move from it.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Seems to be a blanket move by banks, which is
I mean, you can see why, you see what it does.
It does get a little bit like annoying, but yeah,
I mean you can see what what.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Does life look like at the moment? For Dan sounds
like girlfriend, boyfriend, what's the what's your what's your domestic situation?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Then, I mean like, like's the best.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I mean, I'm not I'm not I'm not swimming in cash.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
I just yeah, I value the connections I have with people,
and you know, through this story, I've been able to
make many connections all through the world and that's been amazing.
That's been the best bit of it all. You know,
that's the bit that I didn't even think would have happened. Yeah,
in terms of like marital status. So I don't really
think that, you know, like that's anyone's you know, like
(12:42):
I really I don't really mind if sort of people
know everything about my life, but the other celebrity or
real the other just you know, roll into the valley
every now and there to do a podcast and just
go back to the normal life.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You know, it's not really are so? Is that a
yes or no?
Speaker 7 (12:59):
That I'm extremely happy in my current situation?
Speaker 4 (13:02):
And where are you living?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I just live in a place borro Bay. I don't
know whether you've heard of it. I I just did
famous people. Now. I just I do a little bit
of like my help with the cleaning, like properties and
stuff like that. I don't Yeah, I don't really are
if right about now?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
You feel Dan's being a little cagey about Howie Eann's coin,
whether he's married, single or whatever. I feel the same too.
Me and Dan are mates, but I get the feeling
Dan doesn't want to share too much with too many people,
certainly not a bloke who's going to put it in
a podcast. But I've always wondered, is this because A
(13:39):
Dan's dodgy? B He's just a private guy. See he's
got money stashed in a bag somewhere in a backyard
or d all of the above. Dan's now in his
early forties, and all of this happened when he was
in his twenties. Maybe we'll never get to know or
maybe this movie that we've been banging on about for
(14:00):
the last two and a bit years will actually come
off and reveal all.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
No, it's I mean, I guess it's you know, do
you get something else?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But takes a lot, But yeah, it's good that you
said talk because.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Hollywood movie studio are we allowed to say which one?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You can say which one if you like? All speak?
Speaker 5 (14:20):
You sure not in the room, you know, don't trust
anything as that. But yeah, I mean, it's it searched
like pictures.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
They're part of Disney, part of Disney.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
They've made the approach and as hey, listen is what
we wanted.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
To do, and so the is it documentary or an
actual dramatization of.
Speaker 7 (14:42):
Believe it's an actual movie?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Too much about it.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
But then there's another more who want to make the
movie as well. Okay, and then there's another company I
think it's called October Films something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
I've never really had any interaction with them, certainly not
in the last you know, ten years or something.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So yeah, it's yes, it's weird like they've done a
script apparently too.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
They've got funding from Film New South Wales. Then there's
this other guy who is part of He's like I
got at a company in the UK and which name
escapes me, but he's got a television series in the pipeline,
like an Australian television series.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
And so what do you do for any of this?
Can you be associated with any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I don't think so, okay, I think so.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I think it's I mean, there's stories out there, right, so.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Anyone can do it.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Apparently the entertainment sort of lawyers or whatever they said
that anyone can do it. So it's not like it's
it's something where they need my permission or they need
me to do anything or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, so I have lastly no idea.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
So yeah, do you benefit from it in any way?
Speaker 7 (16:00):
Well, I wouldn't think so, okay, I don't know. I
think I'm just going to I think the most I'm
going to get.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
From it is like a Nando's from you occasionally that
might be it, but otherwise no, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And to be honest, like, it wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Be the amount of money where I'd be like, oh,
you know, I wouldn't sort of look at the amount
of money and go, oh, that's a life changing amount,
you know, I'm going to try and run the gourd or.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Anything like that.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
We're not talking like, yeah, we're not talking Midians and
then we're just talking like, you know, maybe tens of thousands,
but not not a heap of money. So I don't
really Yeah, I'm not really going to go and you know,
especially now, like I'm not really going to go and
put myself on on them and accept money when you know,
basically they could just come and take it off you anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And yeah, maybe there's other ways. I don't know.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
So what else is going on in Dad's orders' life
in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I'm just I'm just really average broke.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Like I'll say, you know, a couple of people listening
to it's like, I'm just nah, I mean, it's just
it's a.
Speaker 7 (17:06):
It's such a like it's become.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I don't think about the glitch every day, but it
always comes up, like there's always a message about it.
There's sort of something going on. But other than that,
I'm just working on working on the goals. Like I
love the idea of having the retreat. I love, Yeah,
I love my friends, love to you know, connect with people,
(17:30):
just keep talking to people. Just keep enjoying, enjoying life.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
For me, it's not you know, it's not just.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Enjoy life in a different way.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
Now.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Dan talk to me about the idea that he has,
and it was to make a retreat somewhere in Byron
where people who had gambling issues could go and spend
time and maybe get away from the Dapto dogs or
the quality at Doom but on a Saturday afternoon. Quite genuinely,
Dan does think gambling is a big issue and it
certainly didn't help him during his time with the glitch.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
You know, I'm pretty happy to go about this. Yeah,
there's clearly issues here around you know, money. Like I've
had problems with gambling in the past, like absolutely like
one hundred and you know, I didn't sort of go
you know, I don't dwell on that stuff because I'm
positive person. I just you know, like if if if
(18:22):
I do the wrong thing, I feel like, you know,
I've done the wrong thing. I don't sort of you know,
sit there and go, oh how bad it is for me.
I just sort of move on and try and learn
from it. And yeah, I mean one of the one
of my big hairy goals is to actually open a
retreat one day four young guys who have you know,
have got a gambling problem or have some substance abuse
(18:46):
issues or whatever, and they can just come and have
a chat because the eighteen year old me or the
twenty year old mate.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
Would have like benefit from that love that like.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
You know, that planning of that seed, Like hey, do
you think you know you might want to you know,
sort of go on a different path or this is
you know what it will lead to later on, you
know what, being bankrupt and like all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So it's not like it's just.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
All roses and oh they're going to make a movie.
I mean, and that's awesome, you know.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
Look, but yeah, maybe we could.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Get some ex football players who benefit from the gambling
industry behind that in it where we get a sports
bet house or something start.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
But yeah, when I go to footy games.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
And stuff now and I see you know, young kids
on their phone at eighty nine eight and they're all
torment betty. It's all betting. It's all on the apps,
you know, it's sports betting, racing, whatever it is. It's
sort of in Australia we've got that sort of alaric
and sort of atmosphere where someone who's got an.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Issue will have it.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
They'll have a spot in the in the friends group,
you know, so you know, over run, Todds a bit
of a dick.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You know, you spent too much.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
And it's almost like in those years when someone has
no money, sort of someone just gets Tod's an idiot,
like we'll just pay for it, like whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You know. Usually it's usually not that much of an issue.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
But then what happens is eventually, you know, sort of
Todd gets right into a bed sort of spiral, and
then he loses those friends and then life gets you know,
a bit bit more.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Real, bit harder.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Yeah, people don't I think understand what's sort of happening,
and that you know, sort of the relationship with gambling
in Australia. He's like the Simpsons, right, So so Marge
gets a gambling problem at Homer goes, I think you've
got a problem, and she goes, yeah, yeah, I think
I don't. I think I need professional help, and he goes, no, no,
but they cost money.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Just don't do it anymore.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Well, what excuse me, ma'am. Don't you think you've gambled enough? Okay?
We're required by line to ask every so many get
another free drink?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
We need to talk. He's spending too much time because
do you know what?
Speaker 6 (21:06):
I think you may have a problem.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I want sixty dollars last night? What problem?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
So Dan's now in his early forties, and all of
this happened when he was in his twenties. So I
wanted to know what Dan wants to be remembered for.
I mean, it's not like he's on his deathbed, but
I still thought it'd be a fun question.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
I don't want to get to more. But let's cut
to your forty three. So let's let's say you know
you're at end of life stage and you know in
the next fifty sixty years, and what's written on your epitaph?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Oh see that's a half bunge. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
But you know, you know how many people.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
There are who are telling other people what to do?
Why a there's so many people asking other people how
to live. Just do it how you feel to do it?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
You know. Yeah, if you want a bit more.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Money, then you're gonna have to work a bit harder,
or you're going to have to find a blitch. You're
gonna have to do something, You're going to have to
be something. You're going to have to make a motion
towards something. People go, oh, you were just an idiot
who found something. You know, like if you believe I
was just an idiot who found something walking on the
street and just went, oh my god, this is amazing.
(22:29):
You have to research that stuff. You have to go
deep into the systems, and you have to.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Realize what's happening.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
You can't just go oh, yeah, give me some money
and they just you know, there's more to it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Obviously, I'm not going to go.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
Oh yeah, this is intricately what happened.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Throw me in jail for another twenty years. Look, why
the hell would you do that. So the point is
you've got to.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Anything that comes your way, whether it's legal or not,
you've got to work for it, right, I'm.
Speaker 10 (22:56):
Not saying you do things a little illegal, of just
saying that run your own race, you know, because life
short and you know, if you if you sort of
waste your time trying to sort of emulate other people
getting buised off other people, you know, who knows what
happens when you die.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
But just embrace the journey. We'll all get there. Eventually,
what what's written on your appetite? What's written on the term?
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Start there?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
What do you what should be there?
Speaker 6 (23:26):
Here lays dad's orders, loved his dad does.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
W reckon.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
He is buried with a whole bunch of cash.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Like you know, I've got a
few Italian friends as well, and they're like, I'm sick
of family members, time with cash.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I've got the appetite and I think, I don't what
what is it? He pissed it all.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Just that.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Herees dad's orders. He pissed it all the way, all
the way and loved it.
Appoche production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
That a mates.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
While I've got your attention, I just thought I might
like to communicate a few things to you. Communication is key,
as you know, and sometimes if I feel things, I
need to express them because even though they're not acted on.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
It's been a minute since we last sat down with
a bloke called Dan Saunders and heard all about the
amazing story of his ATM glitch where he was able
to borrow hashtag steal over a million dollars from a bank,
can spend it in four months on coconhookers and other
fun stuff. Dan dubbed himself in, went to jail, and
(00:54):
then ended up telling me about it all in a
podcast back in February of twenty twenty two. Since then,
Dan and I have become mates. To be honest, I
feel like I got the raw end of the deal.
I mean, if I knew Dan back when the glitch
was going on, then things would have been a damn
site more fun. But I also might have ended.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Up in jail.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
The first thing I feel to say is I hope
you're well, and I hope the family as well.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I hope that it's going well and the business is good,
and yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Everything's fucking homewards and upwards because I always wish that could.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
So under the promise of a free Nando's meal, Dan
jumped on a train from a mystery location and came
up to our studios in Brisbane's Fortitude Valley, which is
pretty close to where we recorded the first time we ever.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Met Amazing Jay. Yeah, you've got your own studio.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
Yeah, I know, yeah, we didn't have that when we
first started.
Speaker 7 (01:48):
I just say you're a new studio and like you know,
he's articular on pretty well.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Let's have to go to Sidney Galore New Cash.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Good to see that you're still the joky guy that
we knew of from the glitch.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Dan.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
So I want to just set some timelines here because it.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Has been probably about three years since we spoke, so
this will all happen. The glitch happened in twenty eleven
for anyone that hasn't gone back and listened to the
previous eleven episodes. But essentially, you were able to work
out with your credit card that you're able to transfer
money from your from your credit card to your savings account,
(02:24):
take the money out, and then continually do that over
a space of four or five months.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Right, how much money did you get?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
But allegedly six million dollars? Well that's what that's what
you say. But you owe how much? I yeah, do
you wwe anything of the moment?
Speaker 5 (02:41):
You don't like if you don't ask you Okay, you
had to COVID shot, Yeah sure, yeah.
Speaker 8 (02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So twenty eleven the incident happened, twenty fifteen you went
to jail for a year, and twenty sixteen you got out.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
So it's almost like it's almost ten years since you
went to jail for this glitch. Right, Yeah, it's been
a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
I always say that I'm just a you know, for
really average bloke with it over your story, Like that's
that's the way I describe my stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Let's stop.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
It's been a long time, you know, five years, you know,
three or four years since we actually recorded in the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Does anyone even listen to this stuff? They do?
Speaker 6 (03:21):
Yeah, like millions of people have listened to it.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
And you know this right because randomly you get texts
and messages from all.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Over the world, right, yeah, yeah, well you got a
lot of texts. I mean just obviously people who have
listened to the story and they enjoy the story.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And all that kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
But again a little of text from people who have
had their own bank glitches.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Dance story is made for social media from Tiktoker's fun fact.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
While on a Nato drinking Dan Saunders went to use ATM.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
He transferred two hundred dollars from his credit account to
his savings account.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
The ATM sed instagrammers this.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Man found a real life money glitch and became a
millionaire over night.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
In twenty eleven, Dan Saunders was out on YouTubers.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
This man discovered an infinite money glitch.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
This this is Dan Sanders.
Speaker 8 (04:06):
One night at two am, he stopped by an ATM
to take out some cash.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
He transferred two hundred dollars from his credit cards.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
And even some of Australia's best horse racing jockeys like
Damian Lane loves the story of Dan and the glitch.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
You've got some podcasts you.
Speaker 8 (04:25):
Yeah, there's a really good one about it Buds from
Jams that Must and it is a great listen, he said,
not about Country Guy. They come across a lot of
money really quickly, has really good fun.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
And that's the reason we wanted to do this episode.
For us, it was about finding out some of the
questions that everyone kept asking, and for Dan, I think
he just wanted the free nandos. This is made for YouTube, right,
Like the amount of times I've seen the Glitch story
told in different languages right around the world, and we'll
(05:06):
occasionally text each other with, oh, how did you see this?
Do you get noticed that.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I don't get noticed?
Speaker 5 (05:12):
And that's kind of like someone actually told me about
me the other day.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Someone told you a story about this dude, did you.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And I'm like, oh, what's the card? And he's like
the Glitch.
Speaker 7 (05:22):
I'm like, okay, I'll get on with He goes, Yeah,
it's about this guy.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Yeah, he went here, and he went there and he
you know, got the money off the bank and on
the pass.
Speaker 7 (05:31):
That's pretty Yeah, sounds pretty interesting.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
But that was Yeah, I mean stuff like that's weird
for someone to come up to you and obviously they
know the.
Speaker 7 (05:38):
Story, but I don't really know who I am.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
Yeah, I think that's great because it literally could have
happened to anyone. Yeah, it's not just me. It's the
fact that it could have happened to anyone. And I
feel like there's been a lot of emphasis on me
through the storytelling, but.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's actually quite serious. Like if a guy.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Who's just an normal dude with an ATM card can
get this amount of money off a national bank and
they don't want to know, particularly where it's coming from,
like what happened with it, they're just prepared to obviously
walk away. You reckon, there's not more people out there
who've got away with a glitch like this and just
walked off into the sunset and.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Not told anyone. Right, I've not been stupid enough to
go to a current affair.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
If the ACM glitch happened to you today, do you
think you'd react differently?
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Like, so, have you ever got that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Vibe where you've been out midnight, you're around, don't have
anybody left because you've got no money?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Ever tried anything like that again if you were to.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
I'm always curious for different things, but I'm not. Yeah,
I'm not sort of in that mindset where I'm going
to go and do something. I know that it is
fundamentally the wrong thing to do, but just myself, not
because I'm going to get caught or anything like that,
just because I don't want to lose myself like that.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Again.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yeah, Yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I just don't
want to lose who I am because you know, I
I like being average mate. I don't need to be
you know, like this flashy guy with lots of money
and you know Nasarati's and you know, just I don't
need to be that.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
What are the messages you get on socials from people
like that know that it was you as anyone reached
out since the podcast and since the news sort of
broke around.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Hey Dan, yeah they range.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
I mean it's if you live in Australia and you're
a group of mates, you'll know that you don't need
sort of enemies when you've got these mates because everything
negative that's on the internet, that will screenshot it and.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
That's go too.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
So I'll just be waiting for, you know, to see
the podiatrist and they will just know it'll just pop
up in the group chat and they'll be like, yeah,
this bloke from Canada, I thinks you're an absolute nob
and I'll just be like, yeah.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Go bo for justin Indick, you know, like I wouldn't find.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
It, but they just you know, my actual favorite anyone's
that I said, he's in a It's in a apple
Apple iTunes review of the glitch yep and it says
I had to turn it off because it sounds like
two autistic people talking to each other that Blake was
from the UK, and I was like, that's good, that's
(08:21):
a double pay.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's so the best stuff is the positive stuff.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
People a message and they say that was amazing you
did that. Why didn't you, you know, sort of walk away.
You know, why didn't you just forget about it and
not tell anyone?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And you know, so I sort.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Of just going to explain exactly what happened at that
time and why I didn't and why I felt that,
you know, like I was losing my peace of mind.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, so that's the free stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Has there anyone reached out from those days now and gone,
hey Dan remember me?
Speaker 5 (08:53):
I was, Yeah, a few people, a few people sort
of around one or other. So a few people in
warang have sort of reached out. But then, yeah, like
the stories from the town, apparently it's quite well known
in the.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Town, the story.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
So yeah, a few people from one Garrata sort of said, oh,
you know that you've been in the paper year and
stuff and in our era sort of talks about it.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
But I don't know that's true. You put Wangaratta on
the map, Well hopefully we will, right.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
So if there's a movie one, Garada is going to
be front and the center.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, there's going to be like a Seinfeld to anyway.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
But normally are those types of movies, like if at
San Francisco you'll see shots of the bridge and those
sorts of things. What's the what's the landmark spot in
wang Apex Park?
Speaker 5 (09:37):
There's just going to be a big drone footage of
Apex Park and it's just yeah, I mean, you're gonna
get down the bull's head, You're going to go at
the commercial. You just can add a very good time.
Just get down a way and get down to the races,
just really embrace it all.
Speaker 9 (09:54):
Here we are in the rural city of Wangaratta. We're
two hundred and sixty kilometers northeast of Melbourne in the
amazing rural city of Wangarada. So come a nixt floor
where my family.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
So the question that we get all the time on
social media and when we talk to people about your story,
is Stan spent all this money on things you didn't
need a receipt for coke hookers, those types of things right. Generally,
don't get receipts for those. Surely he put money, hid
(10:34):
money in the sand or in the bush, or did
a melissic attic and you know has hidden it somewhere.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Well, I mean, the only thing I'd say is that
it's not it's not. Of course there's more of the story,
but it's not in my best interests to just lay
it all on the table.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And there's really no point. I mean, some pen.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Push in some office somewhere, it's going to go, oh yeah, right,
that's what he did.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So we're going to do this.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Ultimately, if a banker gets money out of his customers,
he's seen as like that's good business. If I or
anyone else as a crack at a bank, it's not
fair game. So if I said to you, hey, yeah,
I've got you know, this account here and it's got
(11:22):
this much in it, but what's the point. I mean,
it's all level playing field. If it was all fair
and you could just say, yeah, I stitched them up
and this is why I did, and nothing, you know,
no consequences would come, then.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Great, I'd tell you. But otherwise, what's the point.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Did you have any troubles getting if you do have
a bank account. Now, do you have any troubles getting
a bank account?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Really?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
I think I think I can't transfer money between my accounts.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
That's a smart move from it.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Seems to be a blanket move by banks, which is
I mean, you can see why, you see what it does.
It does get a little bit like annoying, but yeah,
I mean you can see what what.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Does life look like at the moment? For Dan sounds
like girlfriend, boyfriend, what's the what's your what's your domestic situation?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Then, I mean like, like's the best.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I mean, I'm not I'm not I'm not swimming in cash.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
I just yeah, I value the connections I have with people,
and you know, through this story, I've been able to
make many connections all through the world and that's been amazing.
That's been the best bit of it all. You know,
that's the bit that I didn't even think would have happened. Yeah,
in terms of like marital status. So I don't really
think that, you know, like that's anyone's you know, like
(12:42):
I really I don't really mind if sort of people
know everything about my life, but the other celebrity or
real the other just you know, roll into the valley
every now and there to do a podcast and just
go back to the normal life.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You know, it's not really are so? Is that a
yes or no?
Speaker 7 (12:59):
That I'm extremely happy in my current situation?
Speaker 4 (13:02):
And where are you living?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I just live in a place borro Bay. I don't
know whether you've heard of it. I I just did
famous people. Now. I just I do a little bit
of like my help with the cleaning, like properties and
stuff like that. I don't Yeah, I don't really are
if right about now?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
You feel Dan's being a little cagey about Howie Eann's coin,
whether he's married, single or whatever. I feel the same too.
Me and Dan are mates, but I get the feeling
Dan doesn't want to share too much with too many people,
certainly not a bloke who's going to put it in
a podcast. But I've always wondered, is this because A
(13:39):
Dan's dodgy? B He's just a private guy. See he's
got money stashed in a bag somewhere in a backyard
or d all of the above. Dan's now in his
early forties, and all of this happened when he was
in his twenties. Maybe we'll never get to know or
maybe this movie that we've been banging on about for
(14:00):
the last two and a bit years will actually come
off and reveal all.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
No, it's I mean, I guess it's you know, do
you get something else?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But takes a lot, But yeah, it's good that you
said talk because.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Hollywood movie studio are we allowed to say which one?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You can say which one if you like? All speak?
Speaker 5 (14:20):
You sure not in the room, you know, don't trust
anything as that. But yeah, I mean, it's it searched
like pictures.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
They're part of Disney, part of Disney.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
They've made the approach and as hey, listen is what
we wanted.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
To do, and so the is it documentary or an
actual dramatization of.
Speaker 7 (14:42):
Believe it's an actual movie?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Too much about it.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
But then there's another more who want to make the
movie as well. Okay, and then there's another company I
think it's called October Films something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
I've never really had any interaction with them, certainly not
in the last you know, ten years or something.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So yeah, it's yes, it's weird like they've done a
script apparently too.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
They've got funding from Film New South Wales. Then there's
this other guy who is part of He's like I
got at a company in the UK and which name
escapes me, but he's got a television series in the pipeline,
like an Australian television series.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
And so what do you do for any of this?
Can you be associated with any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I don't think so, okay, I think so.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I think it's I mean, there's stories out there, right, so.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Anyone can do it.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Apparently the entertainment sort of lawyers or whatever they said
that anyone can do it. So it's not like it's
it's something where they need my permission or they need
me to do anything or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, so I have lastly no idea.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
So yeah, do you benefit from it in any way?
Speaker 7 (16:00):
Well, I wouldn't think so, okay, I don't know. I
think I'm just going to I think the most I'm
going to get.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
From it is like a Nando's from you occasionally that
might be it, but otherwise no, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And to be honest, like, it wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Be the amount of money where I'd be like, oh,
you know, I wouldn't sort of look at the amount
of money and go, oh, that's a life changing amount,
you know, I'm going to try and run the gourd or.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Anything like that.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
We're not talking like, yeah, we're not talking Midians and
then we're just talking like, you know, maybe tens of thousands,
but not not a heap of money. So I don't
really Yeah, I'm not really going to go and you know,
especially now, like I'm not really going to go and
put myself on on them and accept money when you know,
basically they could just come and take it off you anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And yeah, maybe there's other ways. I don't know.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
So what else is going on in Dad's orders' life
in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I'm just I'm just really average broke.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Like I'll say, you know, a couple of people listening
to it's like, I'm just nah, I mean, it's just
it's a.
Speaker 7 (17:06):
It's such a like it's become.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I don't think about the glitch every day, but it
always comes up, like there's always a message about it.
There's sort of something going on. But other than that,
I'm just working on working on the goals. Like I
love the idea of having the retreat. I love, Yeah,
I love my friends, love to you know, connect with people,
(17:30):
just keep talking to people. Just keep enjoying, enjoying life.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
For me, it's not you know, it's not just.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Enjoy life in a different way.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
Now.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Dan talk to me about the idea that he has,
and it was to make a retreat somewhere in Byron
where people who had gambling issues could go and spend
time and maybe get away from the Dapto dogs or
the quality at Doom but on a Saturday afternoon. Quite genuinely,
Dan does think gambling is a big issue and it
certainly didn't help him during his time with the glitch.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
You know, I'm pretty happy to go about this. Yeah,
there's clearly issues here around you know, money. Like I've
had problems with gambling in the past, like absolutely like
one hundred and you know, I didn't sort of go
you know, I don't dwell on that stuff because I'm
positive person. I just you know, like if if if
(18:22):
I do the wrong thing, I feel like, you know,
I've done the wrong thing. I don't sort of you know,
sit there and go, oh how bad it is for me.
I just sort of move on and try and learn
from it. And yeah, I mean one of the one
of my big hairy goals is to actually open a
retreat one day four young guys who have you know,
have got a gambling problem or have some substance abuse
(18:46):
issues or whatever, and they can just come and have
a chat because the eighteen year old me or the
twenty year old mate.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
Would have like benefit from that love that like.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
You know, that planning of that seed, Like hey, do
you think you know you might want to you know,
sort of go on a different path or this is
you know what it will lead to later on, you
know what, being bankrupt and like all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So it's not like it's just.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
All roses and oh they're going to make a movie.
I mean, and that's awesome, you know.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
Look, but yeah, maybe we could.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Get some ex football players who benefit from the gambling
industry behind that in it where we get a sports
bet house or something start.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
But yeah, when I go to footy games.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
And stuff now and I see you know, young kids
on their phone at eighty nine eight and they're all
torment betty. It's all betting. It's all on the apps,
you know, it's sports betting, racing, whatever it is. It's
sort of in Australia we've got that sort of alaric
and sort of atmosphere where someone who's got an.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Issue will have it.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
They'll have a spot in the in the friends group,
you know, so you know, over run, Todds a bit
of a dick.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You know, you spent too much.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
And it's almost like in those years when someone has
no money, sort of someone just gets Tod's an idiot,
like we'll just pay for it, like whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You know. Usually it's usually not that much of an issue.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
But then what happens is eventually, you know, sort of
Todd gets right into a bed sort of spiral, and
then he loses those friends and then life gets you know,
a bit bit more.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Real, bit harder.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Yeah, people don't I think understand what's sort of happening,
and that you know, sort of the relationship with gambling
in Australia. He's like the Simpsons, right, So so Marge
gets a gambling problem at Homer goes, I think you've
got a problem, and she goes, yeah, yeah, I think
I don't. I think I need professional help, and he goes, no, no,
but they cost money.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Just don't do it anymore.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Well, what excuse me, ma'am. Don't you think you've gambled enough? Okay?
We're required by line to ask every so many get
another free drink?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
We need to talk. He's spending too much time because
do you know what?
Speaker 6 (21:06):
I think you may have a problem.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I want sixty dollars last night? What problem?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
So Dan's now in his early forties, and all of
this happened when he was in his twenties. So I
wanted to know what Dan wants to be remembered for.
I mean, it's not like he's on his deathbed, but
I still thought it'd be a fun question.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
I don't want to get to more. But let's cut
to your forty three. So let's let's say you know
you're at end of life stage and you know in
the next fifty sixty years, and what's written on your epitaph?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Oh see that's a half bunge. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
But you know, you know how many people.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
There are who are telling other people what to do?
Why a there's so many people asking other people how
to live. Just do it how you feel to do it?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
You know. Yeah, if you want a bit more.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Money, then you're gonna have to work a bit harder,
or you're going to have to find a blitch. You're
gonna have to do something, You're going to have to
be something. You're going to have to make a motion
towards something. People go, oh, you were just an idiot
who found something. You know, like if you believe I
was just an idiot who found something walking on the
street and just went, oh my god, this is amazing.
(22:29):
You have to research that stuff. You have to go
deep into the systems, and you have to.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Realize what's happening.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
You can't just go oh, yeah, give me some money
and they just you know, there's more to it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Obviously, I'm not going to go.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
Oh yeah, this is intricately what happened.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Throw me in jail for another twenty years. Look, why
the hell would you do that. So the point is
you've got to.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Anything that comes your way, whether it's legal or not,
you've got to work for it, right, I'm.
Speaker 10 (22:56):
Not saying you do things a little illegal, of just
saying that run your own race, you know, because life
short and you know, if you if you sort of
waste your time trying to sort of emulate other people
getting buised off other people, you know, who knows what
happens when you die.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
But just embrace the journey. We'll all get there. Eventually,
what what's written on your appetite? What's written on the term?
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Start there?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
What do you what should be there?
Speaker 6 (23:26):
Here lays dad's orders, loved his dad does.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
W reckon.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
He is buried with a whole bunch of cash.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Like you know, I've got a
few Italian friends as well, and they're like, I'm sick
of family members, time with cash.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I've got the appetite and I think, I don't what
what is it? He pissed it all.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Just that.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Herees dad's orders. He pissed it all the way, all
the way and loved it.
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