May 19, 2022 • 29 mins
"A carefully worded letter. An exaggerated sense of fairness. Three cracks in the foundation of trust."
This episode sets the stage for our story. We hear about the 1969 draft and how the war in Vietnam impacted Brian's upbringing. We meet a two key players in the Dahlen family - Brian's parents. And we eavesdrop on a conversation about three important incidents that contributed to our story's familial tension.
To learn more, visit https://www.moodyradio.org/podcasts/grandfather-effect/ .
Head to https://bibletolife.com/resources/series/the-grandfather-effect for devotionals that aim to prompt further prayer and reflection based on each episode.
This podcast is a production of Moody Radio and the 820 Podcast Network in partnership with 12:2 Media.
Host and Creator: Brian Dahlen
Executive Producer: Emma VanDeVelde
Producer and Engineer: Caleb Gray
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:01):
We never heard from him again.
S2 (00:02):
No letter, no call, no contact.
S3 (00:04):
That's very possible that I played a leading role in
what happened here. We got to satisfy one.
S2 (00:11):
Five seven.
S1 (00:13):
This is it. I think it's an incredible story.
S4 (00:16):
I guess I kept wondering why everybody didn't.
S2 (00:19):
Address the elephant in the room.
S3 (00:21):
I'm Brian Donnelly, and this is the grandfather effect. Hey there.
It's Brian. I want to hit pause on this episode
to ask you for two quick favors. First. Don't forget
to subscribe to and follow this podcast so you never
miss an episode. And second, would you consider sharing the
(00:41):
grandfather effect with a few of your friends? You know,
word of mouth marketing is the best thing out there.
And if you like what you hear, we'd be so
grateful for you to help us spread the word about
the grandfather effect. Tell your friends to find out more
information at Moody Radio. Georgie. Slash grandfather again. Moody Radio Dawg.
(01:02):
Slash grandfather. Thanks. Let's get back to the episode. Picture this.
It's December 1st, 1969. You're 12 years old and it's
a cold Monday night. Mom's in the kitchen making some
shake and bake, and dad has his nose in the
sports section of the paper, as usual. A seventh straight
(01:25):
loss for the Giants, this time to the Packers. He
looks at the clock and puts the paper down. It's
time for your favorite show. Every Monday night, your whole family,
along with millions of other Americans, gather around the TV
to watch the hit show Mayberry RFD, a spinoff of
(01:45):
The Andy Griffith Show. So you can imagine your disappointment
when a CBS News special report interrupted your favorite Monday
night activity. To make matters worse, your routine was interrupted
by what felt like a mash up of bingo, a
Powerball drawing and The Hunger Games. Seriously? Here's how it worked.
(02:08):
There were over 350 game pieces in the form of
small blue plastic capsules. Hidden inside of each was a
neatly folded slip of paper with some writing on it,
and instead of a slick game show host reaching into
the container to pull them out. It was officiated by
Washington bureaucrats. And as boring as that sounds, you kept
(02:29):
watching and nobody wanted to win. What was going on?
It was the first draft lottery since 1942. But instead
of being sent to Europe or the Pacific, American young
man across the country would be shipped to the jungles
of Vietnam. Those blue plastic capsules each contained a birthday.
The order in which they were randomly drawn would determine
(02:52):
which men of draft eligible age would have to report
for induction into the military in 1970. The earlier your
birthdate was called, the more likely you would be going
to war. General Louis Hershey, director of the Selective Service System,
opened the ominous event by nervously referring to himself in
a third person. New York Congressman Alexander Kearney, the ranking
(03:14):
Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, reached in to
grab the first capsule, opened it up and read the
first date. No young man in America with a birth
year between 1944 and 1950 could avoid being assigned one
of those numbers. Pat Sajak from Wheel of Fortune. His
number was seven. The Boss, Bruce Springsteen, 119. Jay Leno, 223. Meanwhile,
(03:42):
Sylvester Stallone and George W Bush both breathed a sigh
of relief when their shared birthday was the 327th called.
Then there was my soft spoken, introverted dad, Bill. He
was less than four months shy of missing the first
Vietnam draft lottery. His birthday, September 5th, 1950. I decided
(04:04):
to ask my pops about his experience that evening in 1969.
S2 (04:09):
It was 82, and that was kind of a sinking feeling,
as I recall, thinking that there's a pretty good chance
I'm going to get drafted so well.
S3 (04:18):
And so most people would hear 82 and think that's
actually not that that high or that low of a
number because there was 366, I believe, if you include
February 29th.
S2 (04:29):
Yep.
S3 (04:30):
So why would 82 be a bad number?
S2 (04:34):
Because it was a better chance of getting drafted than that,
because it's close to one. So.
S3 (04:42):
So there's just the closer to one you were and
even 82 almost guaranteed you that you'd be called up.
S2 (04:47):
Well, it was kind of felt like borderline based on
what they were saying. But, you know, if you were one,
you were drafted.
S3 (04:55):
Was that the lowest number of anybody you knew?
S2 (04:57):
I do remember one guy in class and he got
360 or 364 and said he was thinking of enlisting.
And I thought, can we trade?
S3 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah. Are you out of your mind? 360, goodness sakes.
That would be almost no chance of being called if.
S2 (05:11):
If they drafted everybody, then we're in real trouble.
S3 (05:15):
My dad explained his options. If you were enrolled in college,
you could get a deferment that would allow you to
postpone being drafted as long as you're carrying at least
12 credits per quarter and passing all your college courses.
Since my dad was already a freshman at the University
of Minnesota, he could keep working on his degree and
avoid the draft temporarily. But the government only gave you
(05:36):
four years to defer the draft for college. A few
months after my pops got his college degree. Something came
in the mail.
S2 (05:43):
And I got a notice from Richard Nixon, president of
the United States, who said, Greetings, you are hereby ordered
to report to the Armed Forces Entrance and examination station
in Minneapolis. I ended up after I got that, I
enlisted for two years and I could defer my enlisted
so that I could delay the entry into the army,
(06:07):
and I could delay it 180 days. And the recruiter
and I counted out 180 days, and that's what I did.
S3 (06:13):
Once his deferments were up, my dad still really did
not want to go to Southeast Asia, so he took
one more shot at delaying the inevitable in a pretty
hilarious way, the way he saw it. There were two
ways he could strategically fail his physical. First, he had
what's called a Highland Idol assist. What's that, you ask? Well,
(06:34):
and it's an infected pocket of skin right near the tailbone. Specifically,
as I saw on Mayo Clinic's website, it indicates that
it's typically, quote, at the top of the cleft of
the buttocks. Any who once infected, it's swollen, painful and
needs to be well drained. My dad figured if he
(06:54):
could inflame and rupture this pile and idle cyst, the
army physician would not only be grossed out but would
reject him from the draft. Of course, the problem is
how do you get a pilot idle cyst to rupture? Well,
Dad tried to figure that one out.
S2 (07:11):
So I bounced up and down on the cement floor
in the basement for a while as soon as I
could get it going. And it didn't work. But this
is before my regular physical. How hard were.
S3 (07:21):
You working at that?
S2 (07:22):
Oh, I jumped up and down for a while, but
it was it was hard. It was in an awkward position.
So it hurt? Yeah, but it wasn't draining.
S3 (07:31):
His second strategy needed somewhat of a music connection of sorts.
You see, my dad was playing drums in a band
at the time, and the wife of one of his
band mates had an idea.
S2 (07:43):
That the advice of the bandleaders wife who was diabetic.
I timed it and drank two bottles of reactance which
is something that diabetics to get your blood sugar up
and you don't they don't drink too much and their drinks.
S3 (08:00):
Were part of one.
S2 (08:01):
I guess. And then I chased it down with a
Coke before physical and women had the urinalysis and came out. Hey,
you made it.
S3 (08:11):
What do you think happened? Just ignore the blood sugar.
S2 (08:13):
I think they ignored the test. I don't know.
S3 (08:16):
Then it was eight weeks of basic training, starting in
March of 1973. But due to his college degree and
his manly typing skills, he managed to become what's called
in our family a chair born ranger. The real title
was Clerk Typist, and that eventually meant he would be
stationed in Utah and Thailand, which is in northern Thailand,
(08:38):
not too far away from Hanoi, Vietnam, on the other
side of the border. He worked in the personnel office
at the base as a records clerk. As you might imagine,
contacting Minneapolis, Minnesota from Utah and Thailand in 1973. It
wasn't so simple. There's no Skype, there's no face time,
there's no texting. So, of course, you could handwrite a
(08:59):
letter or you could awkwardly go through a shortwave radio
operator to contact home. But my mom and dad came
up with a 1970s kind of trendy way to communicate
with their family back home. They communicated with audiotapes and
sent them through the mail. It was a way to
hear your loved one's voices. Now, this was not instantaneous
like it is today. It took time to send and
(09:20):
receive those tapes. After two years of mandatory service filled
with cassette tapes shipped across the world. My parents were
finally back home in Minnesota by March of 1975. And
where did they live? Well, with the man who would
later disown us over a birthday card. My grandpa Tom
and Grandma Betty welcomed them into their home for a
(09:41):
few months as my dad looked for work and they
readjusted to life out of the Army. By June of 1975,
they moved into their own apartment. Then just six months later,
tragedy struck. And it was likely the beginning of the
end of my dad's relationship with his father. On December 31st, 1975,
(10:02):
Tom and Betty boarded a plane in Hawaii and headed
for home after a relaxing vacation somewhere over the Pacific Ocean.
My grandma Betty had a massive heart attack. By the
time they landed in San Francisco, it was too late.
Both the hospital and her pacemaker couldn't save her. She
was dead at the young age of 60. I've always
(10:26):
wondered what would have happened if my grandma wouldn't have
died so young. Would she have kept the family together?
Would she have brushed off the birthday card incident? I
can't know for sure, but a recent discovery may hint
at an answer. My mom did some digging in storage
and found a priceless treasure. One of those cassette tapes
passed back and forth from Thailand was sitting undisturbed in
(10:49):
a box for decades. One more U.S. Postal Service trip
brought that old tape to my home in Ohio, and
I listened intently. I hope I could catch a few
words from Grandpa Tom. Nope. No luck. My parents were
the last ones to use this tape, so they recorded
over virtually everything my grandparents said. But the last 57 seconds,
(11:10):
on the second side of the tape, quite honestly, gave
me chills. I'd never heard Grandma Betty's voice, but there
it was, suddenly appearing in mid-sentence after my parents signed off.
And this was her 28 second Minnesota long goodbye.
S5 (11:27):
Well, we're kind of really stringing this one out. We
hate to give up an inch of tape, but we
come to the end. Daddy and I both send our
love to you both and write when you can. Your
tapes are so much fun. We've saved them. We have
to raise them. And also we played it for Grandma
and she really enjoyed it. She was a little mystified
(11:47):
at first and thought it was very long and she
only heard the first half. But here goes much love.
S3 (11:57):
Did you catch that? She said, Daddy and I both
send our love in her last words. Much love. How
does the man affectionately labeled Daddy end up completely abandoning
his son, daughter in law and two grandsons? If there
really was much love at this time, what in the
(12:18):
world happened to it? Can you describe your dad's personality?
He was pretty.
S2 (12:22):
Laid back guy, a man of few words. He worked
a lot and mom really ran the house. So he
was more to himself. And that's about it, really. I mean, pretty.
S3 (12:34):
Pretty. Didn't say much. He's pretty quiet.
S2 (12:35):
And pretty quiet guy. Yeah.
S3 (12:37):
Was he pretty even tempered or was he.
S2 (12:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Pretty even tempered. Not real high. Not real low.
Not real angry. Laughed quite a bit. Enjoyed a good joke.
S3 (12:49):
How much did he talk about his childhood?
S2 (12:51):
Not a lot. I mean, I knew the general area
he grew up and I learned about his mother from.
From her. Mostly because we met her a few times,
but his dad died way before I was born, so
I didn't hear much about him at all. Well, how.
S3 (13:07):
Old was your dad when his dad passed away?
S2 (13:09):
You know, I don't. I looked it up once and
I forgot now how old he was. I want to
say in his twenties, maybe.
S3 (13:19):
So he was. He was fairly young when his dad
passed away. Yeah. What happened to his dad? There's a
heart attack.
S2 (13:24):
I think so. I never did hear the real reason
how he died, but that was my guess.
S3 (13:30):
Do you have any strong memories as a kid of
you and your brother and your mom and dad doing
stuff or. Well, experiences that stick out.
S2 (13:37):
We ended up buying a 16 foot travel trailer and
pulled it behind the car and we had some big trips.
We went to the West Coast and one summer all
the way out to California.
S3 (13:49):
Now, what were you closer to your mom or your dad,
you think?
S2 (13:51):
Oh, probably mom because she was again ran the household
and was around and work. And that was the trend
at the time that dad went to work and mom
stayed home with the kids. And so so we were
much closer to our mother.
S3 (14:04):
What about their marriage? Were they real affectionate? Were they
close to each other? Were they a tight team?
S2 (14:10):
I think they had a a good marriage and rarely
heard an argument. Can't even remember one, really. But so
if they had disagreements, it was in private.
S3 (14:19):
How much do you know about their story together?
S2 (14:22):
Not much. I don't know how they met.
S3 (14:25):
Mom. What do you remember about. About the first time
you met your father in law?
S1 (14:30):
I don't remember much about how we met or what
I remember is he always drove a Cadillac. One time
we were going someplace, and I was in the backseat
with Dad, and we were. He was driving so slow
that there were cars. The cars were honking and driving
around him and shaking their fist at him. And he
was sort of oblivious to all of it.
S3 (14:52):
So he was oblivious or he just didn't care?
S2 (14:53):
Well, I think he didn't care.
S1 (14:55):
Maybe he didn't care.
S2 (14:56):
Yeah. Drive slow and.
S1 (14:57):
Yeah. Oh, really? I know, but I don't really. I
don't recall much interaction with him. People weren't close to
their parents the way they are now. Your parents didn't
talk to you. You didn't ask questions. And when you
did ask questions, you didn't get much of an answer.
S3 (15:15):
So does that unwrap the whole mystery for you? Well,
not me. My parents clearly know very little about my grandfather.
Based upon their vague description. It's difficult to draw any
conclusions at all. On one hand, he could have been
an introverted, hardworking man who played it really safe on
the highway. Or he could be an emotionally cold, apathetic,
(15:36):
self-centered guy who never cared very much about his family.
It still somewhat baffles me that my dad has no
clue how his own parents met. How is that even possible?
When I first discovered this a few years ago, I
thought he was messing with me. But the truth is,
my grandparents never told him their love story. How they met.
(15:57):
And he never asked. It became evident that I wasn't
going to be able to make any amateur psychological diagnosis
based upon my family history or my grandfather's basic temperament.
So after over an hour of questioning, I think I've
identified three specific incidents that set the stage for the
(16:17):
infamous birthday card d'isolement. I'll call them the inheritance, check
the disappearing train set and the unnecessary road map. First.
There's the inheritance check.
S1 (16:31):
Okay, so I'm remembering something. It was shortly after your
mother died, and somehow you and your brother got each
got a check in the mail for $500. And it
was from a bank. And when you. We called the
bank to figure out what was going on. Your mother
had a savings account in her name with you and
(16:55):
your brother as the beneficiaries. And that was the payoff
after she died. And we assumed that your father had
initiated that somehow. So you called to thank him, and
he didn't know anything about it, and he wanted the
money back.
S3 (17:15):
And really? Yes. Did he need the money?
S1 (17:18):
No, no, no. We were poor. We didn't, you know,
we didn't have anything. It was before the kids were
born or any of that stuff. And I was not
very happy with him, for I thought that was really wrong,
that his that your mother wanted you to have this.
If she died and she died and you had it,
and now he wanted it back.
S3 (17:36):
Did you give it back?
S1 (17:37):
Yes, but I'm pretty sure I told your dad that
I didn't think it was right, because then he turned
around and gave it back to you. And I don't
know if you did to your brother, but I remember
him giving it back to you and saying, Now spend
this wisely. And I thought that was really uncalled for.
(17:58):
I thought it was mean. And that sort.
S3 (18:01):
Of surprised you?
S1 (18:03):
Yeah. Yeah, it did. Because anybody doing something like that
for your child, for goodness sakes, it's your child. They
were given something by their parent who died, and now
you want it back. So I'm thinking, I don't remember this,
but I'm thinking that that might have made me have
(18:24):
an attitude about your dad. And then when the kids
came along and the whole birthday card thing happened, I
already had an attitude about him.
S3 (18:32):
So that was correct. One. A murky and confusing interaction
based on a check. I mean, was it intentional? Mere forgetfulness?
I don't know. But it didn't seem like justification for
such a long standing separation. So I asked about a
second crack the disappearing train set. Did your dad have
(18:53):
any hobbies of his own?
S2 (18:58):
Not a lot. He worked quite a few hours, but
I know he had this model train down in the
basement that we didn't use a lot, but it took
up much of the basement table and it was a
pretty elaborate setup.
S1 (19:10):
Did he do that with you and your brother when
you were some some? Yeah, because I remember when I
remember we asked him for it when when your kids
were you know, when we all had kids because your
brother had two girls and we had the two boys.
And so we asked if we could have the train
set for the boys. And I don't know what he
(19:33):
did with it, but the next time we went over,
it was gone.
S2 (19:36):
Yeah, I never knew why.
S3 (19:37):
But he didn't answer you. He just.
S1 (19:41):
He just got rid of it somehow. I guess we
never found it. We never see that.
S3 (19:45):
Surprised you that that happened or was that just kind of.
S1 (19:47):
I thought it was weird.
S2 (19:48):
Yeah. I don't even remember what happened there.
S3 (19:51):
So, again, they don't know exactly what happened. The disappearance
of a train set, whether innocent or sinister, seemed to
represent further distance between members of our family. So here
we are at the third crack. The map crack. You
guys kind of lost touch with him because of the
birthday card thing when I was. How old now? Probably
(20:15):
like three or something or two.
S1 (20:17):
When we moved to Burnsville, so you were three and
Jacob was five. When we moved to Burnsville.
S2 (20:28):
82 was.
S1 (20:30):
Yeah.
S3 (20:30):
So then prior to that, was he real connected to
seeing Jacob and me?
S2 (20:35):
No, no.
S1 (20:36):
If we if we like at birthday parties, you know, maybe.
S3 (20:40):
He'd come if you invited him.
S1 (20:41):
Yes.
S3 (20:42):
Hmm. Seem to enjoy it.
S2 (20:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Well. And again, we lived in a third
tier suburb of Burnsville, Minneapolis, and that was a long
drive for a lot of people at the time who
had to cross the Minnesota River.
S1 (20:57):
Yeah. Do you remember the one the one time when
he came out of the house, you gave him directions,
but he he for some reason, wasn't confident in them.
So he he was a member of Triple A and
he got them to give him a route map to
get from Minneapolis to Burnsville, which is about a, what,
15 miles or something?
S3 (21:15):
Wow. A map seems functional now. Was this a product
of simply needing a map, or was it a personal
charge against my dad's ability to provide directions? This incident
feels like a representation of a lot of possibilities. Needing directions.
Wondering where to go. Trust issues. Doubt. So here is
(21:40):
the last incident, the one that started all of this.
The birthday card. So tell me about the circumstances that
led up to where you all had a break in
your relationship.
S1 (21:55):
Do you want me to do this or do you?
S2 (21:57):
I think you should, because you have a better memory
of it than I do, so.
S1 (22:00):
Okay. Well, if you look at a calendar year, your
birthday is first in the year, Brian. Your birth is
in February and then your brother is April. I May
and date is September and one year. February came for
your birthday and we didn't hear from him. And I
(22:21):
don't we must not have had a birthday party or anything.
S3 (22:24):
Does that mean no card, no call? Nothing.
S1 (22:26):
Exactly. Yeah, nothing. And then April came and your brother
got a birthday card. And you said, why didn't that
grandpa send me a birthday card? And so what did
you say? I don't I don't remember. I really I
(22:46):
just I remember that you it's so you to notice
something like that. Your memory was that way where a
lot of other three or four year olds wouldn't have
noticed or cared. Probably. Well, then it was May. Which
my birthday and nothing. And I remember telling your dad,
(23:08):
if you get a birthday card, we're going to have
some trouble here. Because I know it isn't that I
thought that any of us deserved a gift or anything.
I felt like. You kids both needed to be acknowledged.
And then September came and Dad got a birthday card
(23:30):
and maybe a check or something. And so then do
you remember us having words about this or.
S2 (23:38):
I do.
S1 (23:38):
Yeah. And you were you were adamant that it wouldn't
make any difference.
S3 (23:42):
Can you take me back to that conversation? I mean, okay,
so you had to have brought it up, right, Mom?
S1 (23:47):
Yes.
S3 (23:47):
How much do you remember and how much can you recount?
S1 (23:49):
I remember that I felt strongly that you children needed
to be treated the same. Both of you. That either
he would acknowledge both of your birthdays or neither of
your birthdays. And that I wanted your dad to send
to somehow communicate to his dad that that it had
(24:11):
to be that way. And I remember you telling me, Bill,
that it wouldn't make any difference, that he would just
be the way he was.
S3 (24:19):
And why did you think it wouldn't make a difference?
S2 (24:22):
Well, because, again, I'm not a demonstrative guy and just
I just think he'd let it roll off.
S3 (24:29):
So. So you weren't worried about him getting mad or offended?
You just thought he would ignore it.
S2 (24:34):
I guess, you know, again, I don't have a real
strong memory of it, but but there was some kind
of check involved because the the letter included a check
and returned the check.
S1 (24:45):
Okay. Okay.
S3 (24:47):
You returned to check. Why is that.
S2 (24:48):
Saying? Well, you know, if you can't. Give it to everybody.
You don't give it to anybody. And it was you know,
it was a carefully worded letter and.
S1 (24:57):
Oh, very.
S3 (24:58):
What did you say in the letter? Do you remember?
S2 (25:01):
No, I don't.
S1 (25:02):
What I remember is I insisted and I made life
pretty miserable until.
S3 (25:07):
What do you mean? You just kept pestering?
S1 (25:09):
Yeah.
S3 (25:11):
Why did it? Why? Why was it that big of
a deal to you? I'm not saying it shouldn't have been.
I'm just curious about what's going on.
S1 (25:17):
For some reason, I have always had an exaggerated sense
of fairness. I don't know if you recall, but after
you guys were married, like when it was occasions for gifts,
I would always get to be sure that everyone had
the same amount of gifts. I would often get the
girls the same things so that it would be fair.
(25:41):
And I remember the girls laughing at me, not in
a mean way, but you know, you don't have to
do this. It's not this big of a deal. And
it was for me. So that must have something to
do with my growing up. I don't know what, but.
S3 (25:54):
Well, and I had said something to you. I noticed
you didn't send a card.
S1 (25:58):
Yes. If you hadn't noticed, it wouldn't have made a
difference to me. I don't. Well, no, I think it
would have still made a difference to me. I don't
know if I would have been as adamant about it.
I don't know.
S3 (26:13):
And whose decision was it to send the check back?
I mean, that's kind of an extreme. Yours?
S1 (26:18):
Yeah.
S3 (26:19):
Well, you're thinking.
S1 (26:20):
Because you didn't get a card or a check, your
brother got a card and a check. I didn't get
a card and a check. Your dad got a card
and a check. The check was no big deal. It
was I mean, they were like $10 or something.
S2 (26:34):
It wasn't the amount.
S1 (26:35):
It wasn't even much then. It wasn't the amount. It
was the principal. That half of the family. Half of
our family was being excluded or ignored or left out
whatever it was.
S3 (26:51):
Were you on board with that idea then.
S2 (26:54):
Or somewhat? I wasn't real thrilled with it because I
didn't know exactly what the reaction would be. And I
was quite surprised at the reaction that came about. So.
S3 (27:05):
So. Okay. So. So you did it kind of begrudgingly,
but you at least agreed enough that you did it.
You wrote the letter, you sent back the check. And
then what?
S1 (27:15):
We never heard from him again.
S3 (27:18):
You have to you have to define that. So he
didn't call back. He didn't return your calls?
S2 (27:22):
No. No letter. No call. No contact.
S3 (27:26):
But we're talking about ten years at least between you
sending the letter to check back and him being in
a nursing home. Did you try to reach out to him?
S1 (27:36):
We must have.
S2 (27:38):
You know, I don't remember trying. Maybe we did.
S3 (27:42):
Did you invite him to birthday parties or you just
were waiting for him to respond?
S1 (27:45):
Boy, I don't remember. Yeah, I don't either.
S2 (27:48):
Maybe we were just waiting for a response or surprise.
We didn't get one. Mm hmm.
S3 (27:52):
But he didn't. No more birthday cards for anybody? No.
No calls?
S1 (27:55):
No.
S3 (27:57):
Nothing.
S1 (27:58):
Nothing.
S3 (28:01):
Did Jacob ever say anything about all this? No. Did
I ask any more questions?
S1 (28:07):
I don't remember you asking any more questions.
S3 (28:10):
Did you two talk about it at all? Boy, we
have never heard from your dad in a few years.
S1 (28:14):
Or probably every once in a while.
S2 (28:18):
Yeah, it must have, but. Nothing that sticks out? No.
S3 (28:22):
Did it bother you that you weren't hearing from your dad?
S2 (28:25):
Oh, some. Yeah. I mean, it seemed like an extreme reaction, but.
S3 (28:30):
But but it's not like you picked up the phone
and said, Dad, we got to talk this out.
S2 (28:36):
Right. I don't remember doing that.
S3 (28:39):
Did you send him any cards for his birthday or
anything or.
S1 (28:42):
Oh, I'm sure we did. Yeah.
S2 (28:45):
A long time ago. I don't remember.
S3 (28:47):
Okay. What, was he close to your brother? Throughout this.
S2 (28:51):
That period of time. You know, I don't know. I probably.
I mean.
S1 (28:56):
I couldn't.
S2 (28:56):
Be less close.
S1 (28:57):
Oh, yeah, I. My impression from your brother and. And
his wife was that they. They saw him regularly.
S3 (29:08):
So there you have it. The birthday card incident makes sense.
Probably not. Doesn't for me, it's not clear at all.
I'm more confused than I was before. So in the
next episode, I'll have to do something that, quite frankly,
is going to be uncomfortable. Awkward. I've got an uncle
and cousins that I really don't have any relationship with
(29:30):
that hold answers that I need. But I haven't spoken
with them in over a decade. Let's see how it goes.
We never heard from him again.
S2 (00:02):
No letter, no call, no contact.
S3 (00:04):
That's very possible that I played a leading role in
what happened here. We got to satisfy one.
S2 (00:11):
Five seven.
S1 (00:13):
This is it. I think it's an incredible story.
S4 (00:16):
I guess I kept wondering why everybody didn't.
S2 (00:19):
Address the elephant in the room.
S3 (00:21):
I'm Brian Donnelly, and this is the grandfather effect. Hey there.
It's Brian. I want to hit pause on this episode
to ask you for two quick favors. First. Don't forget
to subscribe to and follow this podcast so you never
miss an episode. And second, would you consider sharing the
(00:41):
grandfather effect with a few of your friends? You know,
word of mouth marketing is the best thing out there.
And if you like what you hear, we'd be so
grateful for you to help us spread the word about
the grandfather effect. Tell your friends to find out more
information at Moody Radio. Georgie. Slash grandfather again. Moody Radio Dawg.
(01:02):
Slash grandfather. Thanks. Let's get back to the episode. Picture this.
It's December 1st, 1969. You're 12 years old and it's
a cold Monday night. Mom's in the kitchen making some
shake and bake, and dad has his nose in the
sports section of the paper, as usual. A seventh straight
(01:25):
loss for the Giants, this time to the Packers. He
looks at the clock and puts the paper down. It's
time for your favorite show. Every Monday night, your whole family,
along with millions of other Americans, gather around the TV
to watch the hit show Mayberry RFD, a spinoff of
(01:45):
The Andy Griffith Show. So you can imagine your disappointment
when a CBS News special report interrupted your favorite Monday
night activity. To make matters worse, your routine was interrupted
by what felt like a mash up of bingo, a
Powerball drawing and The Hunger Games. Seriously? Here's how it worked.
(02:08):
There were over 350 game pieces in the form of
small blue plastic capsules. Hidden inside of each was a
neatly folded slip of paper with some writing on it,
and instead of a slick game show host reaching into
the container to pull them out. It was officiated by
Washington bureaucrats. And as boring as that sounds, you kept
(02:29):
watching and nobody wanted to win. What was going on?
It was the first draft lottery since 1942. But instead
of being sent to Europe or the Pacific, American young
man across the country would be shipped to the jungles
of Vietnam. Those blue plastic capsules each contained a birthday.
The order in which they were randomly drawn would determine
(02:52):
which men of draft eligible age would have to report
for induction into the military in 1970. The earlier your
birthdate was called, the more likely you would be going
to war. General Louis Hershey, director of the Selective Service System,
opened the ominous event by nervously referring to himself in
a third person. New York Congressman Alexander Kearney, the ranking
(03:14):
Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, reached in to
grab the first capsule, opened it up and read the
first date. No young man in America with a birth
year between 1944 and 1950 could avoid being assigned one
of those numbers. Pat Sajak from Wheel of Fortune. His
number was seven. The Boss, Bruce Springsteen, 119. Jay Leno, 223. Meanwhile,
(03:42):
Sylvester Stallone and George W Bush both breathed a sigh
of relief when their shared birthday was the 327th called.
Then there was my soft spoken, introverted dad, Bill. He
was less than four months shy of missing the first
Vietnam draft lottery. His birthday, September 5th, 1950. I decided
(04:04):
to ask my pops about his experience that evening in 1969.
S2 (04:09):
It was 82, and that was kind of a sinking feeling,
as I recall, thinking that there's a pretty good chance
I'm going to get drafted so well.
S3 (04:18):
And so most people would hear 82 and think that's
actually not that that high or that low of a
number because there was 366, I believe, if you include
February 29th.
S2 (04:29):
Yep.
S3 (04:30):
So why would 82 be a bad number?
S2 (04:34):
Because it was a better chance of getting drafted than that,
because it's close to one. So.
S3 (04:42):
So there's just the closer to one you were and
even 82 almost guaranteed you that you'd be called up.
S2 (04:47):
Well, it was kind of felt like borderline based on
what they were saying. But, you know, if you were one,
you were drafted.
S3 (04:55):
Was that the lowest number of anybody you knew?
S2 (04:57):
I do remember one guy in class and he got
360 or 364 and said he was thinking of enlisting.
And I thought, can we trade?
S3 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah. Are you out of your mind? 360, goodness sakes.
That would be almost no chance of being called if.
S2 (05:11):
If they drafted everybody, then we're in real trouble.
S3 (05:15):
My dad explained his options. If you were enrolled in college,
you could get a deferment that would allow you to
postpone being drafted as long as you're carrying at least
12 credits per quarter and passing all your college courses.
Since my dad was already a freshman at the University
of Minnesota, he could keep working on his degree and
avoid the draft temporarily. But the government only gave you
(05:36):
four years to defer the draft for college. A few
months after my pops got his college degree. Something came
in the mail.
S2 (05:43):
And I got a notice from Richard Nixon, president of
the United States, who said, Greetings, you are hereby ordered
to report to the Armed Forces Entrance and examination station
in Minneapolis. I ended up after I got that, I
enlisted for two years and I could defer my enlisted
so that I could delay the entry into the army,
(06:07):
and I could delay it 180 days. And the recruiter
and I counted out 180 days, and that's what I did.
S3 (06:13):
Once his deferments were up, my dad still really did
not want to go to Southeast Asia, so he took
one more shot at delaying the inevitable in a pretty
hilarious way, the way he saw it. There were two
ways he could strategically fail his physical. First, he had
what's called a Highland Idol assist. What's that, you ask? Well,
(06:34):
and it's an infected pocket of skin right near the tailbone. Specifically,
as I saw on Mayo Clinic's website, it indicates that
it's typically, quote, at the top of the cleft of
the buttocks. Any who once infected, it's swollen, painful and
needs to be well drained. My dad figured if he
(06:54):
could inflame and rupture this pile and idle cyst, the
army physician would not only be grossed out but would
reject him from the draft. Of course, the problem is
how do you get a pilot idle cyst to rupture? Well,
Dad tried to figure that one out.
S2 (07:11):
So I bounced up and down on the cement floor
in the basement for a while as soon as I
could get it going. And it didn't work. But this
is before my regular physical. How hard were.
S3 (07:21):
You working at that?
S2 (07:22):
Oh, I jumped up and down for a while, but
it was it was hard. It was in an awkward position.
So it hurt? Yeah, but it wasn't draining.
S3 (07:31):
His second strategy needed somewhat of a music connection of sorts.
You see, my dad was playing drums in a band
at the time, and the wife of one of his
band mates had an idea.
S2 (07:43):
That the advice of the bandleaders wife who was diabetic.
I timed it and drank two bottles of reactance which
is something that diabetics to get your blood sugar up
and you don't they don't drink too much and their drinks.
S3 (08:00):
Were part of one.
S2 (08:01):
I guess. And then I chased it down with a
Coke before physical and women had the urinalysis and came out. Hey,
you made it.
S3 (08:11):
What do you think happened? Just ignore the blood sugar.
S2 (08:13):
I think they ignored the test. I don't know.
S3 (08:16):
Then it was eight weeks of basic training, starting in
March of 1973. But due to his college degree and
his manly typing skills, he managed to become what's called
in our family a chair born ranger. The real title
was Clerk Typist, and that eventually meant he would be
stationed in Utah and Thailand, which is in northern Thailand,
(08:38):
not too far away from Hanoi, Vietnam, on the other
side of the border. He worked in the personnel office
at the base as a records clerk. As you might imagine,
contacting Minneapolis, Minnesota from Utah and Thailand in 1973. It
wasn't so simple. There's no Skype, there's no face time,
there's no texting. So, of course, you could handwrite a
(08:59):
letter or you could awkwardly go through a shortwave radio
operator to contact home. But my mom and dad came
up with a 1970s kind of trendy way to communicate
with their family back home. They communicated with audiotapes and
sent them through the mail. It was a way to
hear your loved one's voices. Now, this was not instantaneous
like it is today. It took time to send and
(09:20):
receive those tapes. After two years of mandatory service filled
with cassette tapes shipped across the world. My parents were
finally back home in Minnesota by March of 1975. And
where did they live? Well, with the man who would
later disown us over a birthday card. My grandpa Tom
and Grandma Betty welcomed them into their home for a
(09:41):
few months as my dad looked for work and they
readjusted to life out of the Army. By June of 1975,
they moved into their own apartment. Then just six months later,
tragedy struck. And it was likely the beginning of the
end of my dad's relationship with his father. On December 31st, 1975,
(10:02):
Tom and Betty boarded a plane in Hawaii and headed
for home after a relaxing vacation somewhere over the Pacific Ocean.
My grandma Betty had a massive heart attack. By the
time they landed in San Francisco, it was too late.
Both the hospital and her pacemaker couldn't save her. She
was dead at the young age of 60. I've always
(10:26):
wondered what would have happened if my grandma wouldn't have
died so young. Would she have kept the family together?
Would she have brushed off the birthday card incident? I
can't know for sure, but a recent discovery may hint
at an answer. My mom did some digging in storage
and found a priceless treasure. One of those cassette tapes
passed back and forth from Thailand was sitting undisturbed in
(10:49):
a box for decades. One more U.S. Postal Service trip
brought that old tape to my home in Ohio, and
I listened intently. I hope I could catch a few
words from Grandpa Tom. Nope. No luck. My parents were
the last ones to use this tape, so they recorded
over virtually everything my grandparents said. But the last 57 seconds,
(11:10):
on the second side of the tape, quite honestly, gave
me chills. I'd never heard Grandma Betty's voice, but there
it was, suddenly appearing in mid-sentence after my parents signed off.
And this was her 28 second Minnesota long goodbye.
S5 (11:27):
Well, we're kind of really stringing this one out. We
hate to give up an inch of tape, but we
come to the end. Daddy and I both send our
love to you both and write when you can. Your
tapes are so much fun. We've saved them. We have
to raise them. And also we played it for Grandma
and she really enjoyed it. She was a little mystified
(11:47):
at first and thought it was very long and she
only heard the first half. But here goes much love.
S3 (11:57):
Did you catch that? She said, Daddy and I both
send our love in her last words. Much love. How
does the man affectionately labeled Daddy end up completely abandoning
his son, daughter in law and two grandsons? If there
really was much love at this time, what in the
(12:18):
world happened to it? Can you describe your dad's personality?
He was pretty.
S2 (12:22):
Laid back guy, a man of few words. He worked
a lot and mom really ran the house. So he
was more to himself. And that's about it, really. I mean, pretty.
S3 (12:34):
Pretty. Didn't say much. He's pretty quiet.
S2 (12:35):
And pretty quiet guy. Yeah.
S3 (12:37):
Was he pretty even tempered or was he.
S2 (12:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Pretty even tempered. Not real high. Not real low.
Not real angry. Laughed quite a bit. Enjoyed a good joke.
S3 (12:49):
How much did he talk about his childhood?
S2 (12:51):
Not a lot. I mean, I knew the general area
he grew up and I learned about his mother from.
From her. Mostly because we met her a few times,
but his dad died way before I was born, so
I didn't hear much about him at all. Well, how.
S3 (13:07):
Old was your dad when his dad passed away?
S2 (13:09):
You know, I don't. I looked it up once and
I forgot now how old he was. I want to
say in his twenties, maybe.
S3 (13:19):
So he was. He was fairly young when his dad
passed away. Yeah. What happened to his dad? There's a
heart attack.
S2 (13:24):
I think so. I never did hear the real reason
how he died, but that was my guess.
S3 (13:30):
Do you have any strong memories as a kid of
you and your brother and your mom and dad doing
stuff or. Well, experiences that stick out.
S2 (13:37):
We ended up buying a 16 foot travel trailer and
pulled it behind the car and we had some big trips.
We went to the West Coast and one summer all
the way out to California.
S3 (13:49):
Now, what were you closer to your mom or your dad,
you think?
S2 (13:51):
Oh, probably mom because she was again ran the household
and was around and work. And that was the trend
at the time that dad went to work and mom
stayed home with the kids. And so so we were
much closer to our mother.
S3 (14:04):
What about their marriage? Were they real affectionate? Were they
close to each other? Were they a tight team?
S2 (14:10):
I think they had a a good marriage and rarely
heard an argument. Can't even remember one, really. But so
if they had disagreements, it was in private.
S3 (14:19):
How much do you know about their story together?
S2 (14:22):
Not much. I don't know how they met.
S3 (14:25):
Mom. What do you remember about. About the first time
you met your father in law?
S1 (14:30):
I don't remember much about how we met or what
I remember is he always drove a Cadillac. One time
we were going someplace, and I was in the backseat
with Dad, and we were. He was driving so slow
that there were cars. The cars were honking and driving
around him and shaking their fist at him. And he
was sort of oblivious to all of it.
S3 (14:52):
So he was oblivious or he just didn't care?
S2 (14:53):
Well, I think he didn't care.
S1 (14:55):
Maybe he didn't care.
S2 (14:56):
Yeah. Drive slow and.
S1 (14:57):
Yeah. Oh, really? I know, but I don't really. I
don't recall much interaction with him. People weren't close to
their parents the way they are now. Your parents didn't
talk to you. You didn't ask questions. And when you
did ask questions, you didn't get much of an answer.
S3 (15:15):
So does that unwrap the whole mystery for you? Well,
not me. My parents clearly know very little about my grandfather.
Based upon their vague description. It's difficult to draw any
conclusions at all. On one hand, he could have been
an introverted, hardworking man who played it really safe on
the highway. Or he could be an emotionally cold, apathetic,
(15:36):
self-centered guy who never cared very much about his family.
It still somewhat baffles me that my dad has no
clue how his own parents met. How is that even possible?
When I first discovered this a few years ago, I
thought he was messing with me. But the truth is,
my grandparents never told him their love story. How they met.
(15:57):
And he never asked. It became evident that I wasn't
going to be able to make any amateur psychological diagnosis
based upon my family history or my grandfather's basic temperament.
So after over an hour of questioning, I think I've
identified three specific incidents that set the stage for the
(16:17):
infamous birthday card d'isolement. I'll call them the inheritance, check
the disappearing train set and the unnecessary road map. First.
There's the inheritance check.
S1 (16:31):
Okay, so I'm remembering something. It was shortly after your
mother died, and somehow you and your brother got each
got a check in the mail for $500. And it
was from a bank. And when you. We called the
bank to figure out what was going on. Your mother
had a savings account in her name with you and
(16:55):
your brother as the beneficiaries. And that was the payoff
after she died. And we assumed that your father had
initiated that somehow. So you called to thank him, and
he didn't know anything about it, and he wanted the
money back.
S3 (17:15):
And really? Yes. Did he need the money?
S1 (17:18):
No, no, no. We were poor. We didn't, you know,
we didn't have anything. It was before the kids were
born or any of that stuff. And I was not
very happy with him, for I thought that was really wrong,
that his that your mother wanted you to have this.
If she died and she died and you had it,
and now he wanted it back.
S3 (17:36):
Did you give it back?
S1 (17:37):
Yes, but I'm pretty sure I told your dad that
I didn't think it was right, because then he turned
around and gave it back to you. And I don't
know if you did to your brother, but I remember
him giving it back to you and saying, Now spend
this wisely. And I thought that was really uncalled for.
(17:58):
I thought it was mean. And that sort.
S3 (18:01):
Of surprised you?
S1 (18:03):
Yeah. Yeah, it did. Because anybody doing something like that
for your child, for goodness sakes, it's your child. They
were given something by their parent who died, and now
you want it back. So I'm thinking, I don't remember this,
but I'm thinking that that might have made me have
(18:24):
an attitude about your dad. And then when the kids
came along and the whole birthday card thing happened, I
already had an attitude about him.
S3 (18:32):
So that was correct. One. A murky and confusing interaction
based on a check. I mean, was it intentional? Mere forgetfulness?
I don't know. But it didn't seem like justification for
such a long standing separation. So I asked about a
second crack the disappearing train set. Did your dad have
(18:53):
any hobbies of his own?
S2 (18:58):
Not a lot. He worked quite a few hours, but
I know he had this model train down in the
basement that we didn't use a lot, but it took
up much of the basement table and it was a
pretty elaborate setup.
S1 (19:10):
Did he do that with you and your brother when
you were some some? Yeah, because I remember when I
remember we asked him for it when when your kids
were you know, when we all had kids because your
brother had two girls and we had the two boys.
And so we asked if we could have the train
set for the boys. And I don't know what he
(19:33):
did with it, but the next time we went over,
it was gone.
S2 (19:36):
Yeah, I never knew why.
S3 (19:37):
But he didn't answer you. He just.
S1 (19:41):
He just got rid of it somehow. I guess we
never found it. We never see that.
S3 (19:45):
Surprised you that that happened or was that just kind of.
S1 (19:47):
I thought it was weird.
S2 (19:48):
Yeah. I don't even remember what happened there.
S3 (19:51):
So, again, they don't know exactly what happened. The disappearance
of a train set, whether innocent or sinister, seemed to
represent further distance between members of our family. So here
we are at the third crack. The map crack. You
guys kind of lost touch with him because of the
birthday card thing when I was. How old now? Probably
(20:15):
like three or something or two.
S1 (20:17):
When we moved to Burnsville, so you were three and
Jacob was five. When we moved to Burnsville.
S2 (20:28):
82 was.
S1 (20:30):
Yeah.
S3 (20:30):
So then prior to that, was he real connected to
seeing Jacob and me?
S2 (20:35):
No, no.
S1 (20:36):
If we if we like at birthday parties, you know, maybe.
S3 (20:40):
He'd come if you invited him.
S1 (20:41):
Yes.
S3 (20:42):
Hmm. Seem to enjoy it.
S2 (20:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Well. And again, we lived in a third
tier suburb of Burnsville, Minneapolis, and that was a long
drive for a lot of people at the time who
had to cross the Minnesota River.
S1 (20:57):
Yeah. Do you remember the one the one time when
he came out of the house, you gave him directions,
but he he for some reason, wasn't confident in them.
So he he was a member of Triple A and
he got them to give him a route map to
get from Minneapolis to Burnsville, which is about a, what,
15 miles or something?
S3 (21:15):
Wow. A map seems functional now. Was this a product
of simply needing a map, or was it a personal
charge against my dad's ability to provide directions? This incident
feels like a representation of a lot of possibilities. Needing directions.
Wondering where to go. Trust issues. Doubt. So here is
(21:40):
the last incident, the one that started all of this.
The birthday card. So tell me about the circumstances that
led up to where you all had a break in
your relationship.
S1 (21:55):
Do you want me to do this or do you?
S2 (21:57):
I think you should, because you have a better memory
of it than I do, so.
S1 (22:00):
Okay. Well, if you look at a calendar year, your
birthday is first in the year, Brian. Your birth is
in February and then your brother is April. I May
and date is September and one year. February came for
your birthday and we didn't hear from him. And I
(22:21):
don't we must not have had a birthday party or anything.
S3 (22:24):
Does that mean no card, no call? Nothing.
S1 (22:26):
Exactly. Yeah, nothing. And then April came and your brother
got a birthday card. And you said, why didn't that
grandpa send me a birthday card? And so what did
you say? I don't I don't remember. I really I
(22:46):
just I remember that you it's so you to notice
something like that. Your memory was that way where a
lot of other three or four year olds wouldn't have
noticed or cared. Probably. Well, then it was May. Which
my birthday and nothing. And I remember telling your dad,
(23:08):
if you get a birthday card, we're going to have
some trouble here. Because I know it isn't that I
thought that any of us deserved a gift or anything.
I felt like. You kids both needed to be acknowledged.
And then September came and Dad got a birthday card
(23:30):
and maybe a check or something. And so then do
you remember us having words about this or.
S2 (23:38):
I do.
S1 (23:38):
Yeah. And you were you were adamant that it wouldn't
make any difference.
S3 (23:42):
Can you take me back to that conversation? I mean, okay,
so you had to have brought it up, right, Mom?
S1 (23:47):
Yes.
S3 (23:47):
How much do you remember and how much can you recount?
S1 (23:49):
I remember that I felt strongly that you children needed
to be treated the same. Both of you. That either
he would acknowledge both of your birthdays or neither of
your birthdays. And that I wanted your dad to send
to somehow communicate to his dad that that it had
(24:11):
to be that way. And I remember you telling me, Bill,
that it wouldn't make any difference, that he would just
be the way he was.
S3 (24:19):
And why did you think it wouldn't make a difference?
S2 (24:22):
Well, because, again, I'm not a demonstrative guy and just
I just think he'd let it roll off.
S3 (24:29):
So. So you weren't worried about him getting mad or offended?
You just thought he would ignore it.
S2 (24:34):
I guess, you know, again, I don't have a real
strong memory of it, but but there was some kind
of check involved because the the letter included a check
and returned the check.
S1 (24:45):
Okay. Okay.
S3 (24:47):
You returned to check. Why is that.
S2 (24:48):
Saying? Well, you know, if you can't. Give it to everybody.
You don't give it to anybody. And it was you know,
it was a carefully worded letter and.
S1 (24:57):
Oh, very.
S3 (24:58):
What did you say in the letter? Do you remember?
S2 (25:01):
No, I don't.
S1 (25:02):
What I remember is I insisted and I made life
pretty miserable until.
S3 (25:07):
What do you mean? You just kept pestering?
S1 (25:09):
Yeah.
S3 (25:11):
Why did it? Why? Why was it that big of
a deal to you? I'm not saying it shouldn't have been.
I'm just curious about what's going on.
S1 (25:17):
For some reason, I have always had an exaggerated sense
of fairness. I don't know if you recall, but after
you guys were married, like when it was occasions for gifts,
I would always get to be sure that everyone had
the same amount of gifts. I would often get the
girls the same things so that it would be fair.
(25:41):
And I remember the girls laughing at me, not in
a mean way, but you know, you don't have to
do this. It's not this big of a deal. And
it was for me. So that must have something to
do with my growing up. I don't know what, but.
S3 (25:54):
Well, and I had said something to you. I noticed
you didn't send a card.
S1 (25:58):
Yes. If you hadn't noticed, it wouldn't have made a
difference to me. I don't. Well, no, I think it
would have still made a difference to me. I don't
know if I would have been as adamant about it.
I don't know.
S3 (26:13):
And whose decision was it to send the check back?
I mean, that's kind of an extreme. Yours?
S1 (26:18):
Yeah.
S3 (26:19):
Well, you're thinking.
S1 (26:20):
Because you didn't get a card or a check, your
brother got a card and a check. I didn't get
a card and a check. Your dad got a card
and a check. The check was no big deal. It
was I mean, they were like $10 or something.
S2 (26:34):
It wasn't the amount.
S1 (26:35):
It wasn't even much then. It wasn't the amount. It
was the principal. That half of the family. Half of
our family was being excluded or ignored or left out
whatever it was.
S3 (26:51):
Were you on board with that idea then.
S2 (26:54):
Or somewhat? I wasn't real thrilled with it because I
didn't know exactly what the reaction would be. And I
was quite surprised at the reaction that came about. So.
S3 (27:05):
So. Okay. So. So you did it kind of begrudgingly,
but you at least agreed enough that you did it.
You wrote the letter, you sent back the check. And
then what?
S1 (27:15):
We never heard from him again.
S3 (27:18):
You have to you have to define that. So he
didn't call back. He didn't return your calls?
S2 (27:22):
No. No letter. No call. No contact.
S3 (27:26):
But we're talking about ten years at least between you
sending the letter to check back and him being in
a nursing home. Did you try to reach out to him?
S1 (27:36):
We must have.
S2 (27:38):
You know, I don't remember trying. Maybe we did.
S3 (27:42):
Did you invite him to birthday parties or you just
were waiting for him to respond?
S1 (27:45):
Boy, I don't remember. Yeah, I don't either.
S2 (27:48):
Maybe we were just waiting for a response or surprise.
We didn't get one. Mm hmm.
S3 (27:52):
But he didn't. No more birthday cards for anybody? No.
No calls?
S1 (27:55):
No.
S3 (27:57):
Nothing.
S1 (27:58):
Nothing.
S3 (28:01):
Did Jacob ever say anything about all this? No. Did
I ask any more questions?
S1 (28:07):
I don't remember you asking any more questions.
S3 (28:10):
Did you two talk about it at all? Boy, we
have never heard from your dad in a few years.
S1 (28:14):
Or probably every once in a while.
S2 (28:18):
Yeah, it must have, but. Nothing that sticks out? No.
S3 (28:22):
Did it bother you that you weren't hearing from your dad?
S2 (28:25):
Oh, some. Yeah. I mean, it seemed like an extreme reaction, but.
S3 (28:30):
But but it's not like you picked up the phone
and said, Dad, we got to talk this out.
S2 (28:36):
Right. I don't remember doing that.
S3 (28:39):
Did you send him any cards for his birthday or
anything or.
S1 (28:42):
Oh, I'm sure we did. Yeah.
S2 (28:45):
A long time ago. I don't remember.
S3 (28:47):
Okay. What, was he close to your brother? Throughout this.
S2 (28:51):
That period of time. You know, I don't know. I probably.
I mean.
S1 (28:56):
I couldn't.
S2 (28:56):
Be less close.
S1 (28:57):
Oh, yeah, I. My impression from your brother and. And
his wife was that they. They saw him regularly.
S3 (29:08):
So there you have it. The birthday card incident makes sense.
Probably not. Doesn't for me, it's not clear at all.
I'm more confused than I was before. So in the
next episode, I'll have to do something that, quite frankly,
is going to be uncomfortable. Awkward. I've got an uncle
and cousins that I really don't have any relationship with
(29:30):
that hold answers that I need. But I haven't spoken
with them in over a decade. Let's see how it goes.
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