December 17, 2025 • 12 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We got to talk some hoops right now. Carolina and
Duke both taking care of business. Last night, albeit in
different ways. We got to talk about our rookie phenom
here with the Hornets, Conk Nipple, and we do it
with a good friend of the show, in longtime ESPN
college basketball analyst. You catch him on college game day.
He also happens to be two time ACC Coach of
the Year. Our friend Seth Greenberg hanging out with us
(00:21):
here on a Wednesday. Coach, how you been man? I
appreciate the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Time any better. I couldn't stand myself just sitting here
watching ball on you know what's going to happen in
the next few days. It's been a great preseason. I'm
never really ask your college basketball. The non conference season
has been great. The matchups have been great each and
every night. College basketball never disappoints.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It's been tremendous. I agree with you, but you'll have
to forgive me. I'll get back to college hoops in
a second, because here in Charlotte, we have been amazed
by Conk Nipple here during his rookie season. I told
you yesterday I wanted to get your thoughts on this.
He's got seven games of twenty five points plus. I
believe that's more than every other rookie combined to this
stage in the season. I think he would be the
NBA's Rookie of the Year if the season stopped today.
(01:03):
I don't honestly recall what your exact opinion of him
was as a prospect coming out of the draft, But
what did you think of him as a prospect, and
what do you think about what we've seen so far?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I love him as a prospect. The physical body, a
leap three point shooter, high basketball. Iq Uh has a
feel for the game. Ces plays early competitive. It's interesting
because I was at his first Summer League game and
I'm not sure he scored in that game, and I
remember looking across at his family and they were like worried,
(01:32):
and I was trying. I felt like walking over Ago,
like this is this is just the very beginning stages.
He's going to be fine. He is who he is.
He's going to make shots, He's going to make the
right play. He's competitive, he's physical, he's strong, he makes
the game easier. He's easy to play with. And then
you know, the next game he dropped like thirty Uh
he's a terrific basketball player, and you know, he just
(01:55):
has a great steal for the game and being easy
to play with is some thing that is really really important.
You know, you can put him in a lot of
different situations and the impects winning real quick.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I mean, I think it's he and Steph Curry the
only players in the NBA with eighty plus threes on
forty percent or better shooting right now. We know he
can shoot it, but he's scoring from multiple levels. He's
distributing the ball pretty well. I'm not saying he's a
finished product by any stretch of the imagination, but is
there an area of his game that you think has
been the most surprising as it relates to acclimating to
the NBA rapidly?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
You know, I think he was an underrated defender. Yeah,
I think he's a fairly physical defender. He's not, for
sure a very position a good positional defender, So that
was probably it. Peops a lot. How we don't have
to hide him defensively. I'm not sure you have to
hide him defensively. You know, he's hard to screen, which
is the biggest thing in that league. You know, you
put him on an island. You probably he's probably not
(02:50):
going to get a stop, but who gets a stop
when you put on an island. But in terms of
being a connected defender, being an active and alert defender,
being a guy that has a feel for being in
the right spot, being good off the ball, he's very good.
So I just think he's physically mature, he's emotionally mature.
He's competitive. It's much more than just his shot making.
(03:16):
It's his IQ and his ability to play and be
successful as part of the good of the group. And
I think that's the thing that John prepared him for.
And I also think that's kind of the essence of
who he is as a person and a player.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
All right, let's talk some college hoops.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Carolina last night beats East Tennessee State by nineteen. Etsu
is a good basketball team. Carolina ends up running away.
Massive night from Henry Vasar, a great night from Caleb
Wilson as well.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And you know this as well as anybody.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Roy's best teams had loaded front courts, guys that could
do a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
They seem to have that this year.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
What do you think of the way those two guys
have changed the complexion of Carolina basketball from last year
to this year. And it's a totality. You know, how
much more work do they have to do? And one
they're good team, but you know it's more than just
that at Carolina of course.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, they're back to the future. I mean, that's the
best way for me to discarb it. They're back to
the future. There. They look like Carolina team, and they
got athleticism, you know, in the front corner Wilson, They've
got a dominant guy that has versatility, and these are
you see developing players across the board. When they get
Seth Trimble back, they'll have one more dog to add
to the lineup. Who you know, he's the only you know,
(04:27):
rotation player that's basically back with him, and he's got
incredible leadership skills. You can defend multiple positions, you can
make enough shots, you can get to the rim. But
while he's been out, you've seen the development of a
Derek Dixon who's now getting more confident. So when he
comes back, he's coming back to and I said, this
is the same thing about Darren Peterson. He's coming back
(04:49):
to a more mature, confident team. So you know, I
like their right lineup. I like Stevenson give him a
little bit more consistency. I think that's very important. But
I like their basketball team. I think they remind me
a lot of you know, old school Carolina teams, you know,
their quick past back in transition. They can play high
(05:10):
low basketball, they can play in the half court. They
have enough shot makers around the floor, and they're going
to have depth when Trimple comes back. So I really
like their team.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Duke.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Also, last night, slow start, really sleepy against lipscumb There
are probably a lot of reasons for that. Sixteen turnovers
in sixteen minutes to start the game certainly didn't look great.
They were only up three at the halftime, But man,
they really turned things on in the second half and
looked more like the Duke team that we've expected.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That team, of course, last year fell short of a title.
This so this team so far this year has knocked
off one heavyweight after the other. What do we think
of Duke to this stage just in terms of title contention,
you know, overall talent, you know the makeup of this team.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
What's been your opinion?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I don't like their team, you know, I like what
John's been able to do. Look lest yesterday coming out
of finals. You know, all the students are leaving. It's
a it's a totally you know, those games are tough
and let's go plays a style of basketball. If they're
making shots, uh, you know, they're dangerous and they you know,
do help them the turnovers. Well, they've got to get
consistent point guard play. They get consistent point guard play,
(06:16):
play starters play making enough scoring or shot you know,
shot threat out of the point guard. You know, they
think about the game, good point guard play. Calm Foster
also he made those two you know, those two big plays.
Think about the Michigan State game, Kellum Foster. Ball goes in,
relocates both, ball goes back out then and that's down
to three. So look, I like, I like their roster. Uh,
(06:39):
Camvas didn't vomitate. Uh. You know, Patrick's gotten better. You
see his growth, which is is really important. I think
John's trying to figure out the pieces in terms of lineups.
He not only that he wants to play, but that
he can't play together. And that's what happens when you're
playing eight to nine guys. You've got to be very
(07:01):
careful of stubbing into lineups that maybe just don't work now.
Amania is going to be a good player. I think
he's probably the one that taking the longest time for
the light bulb to go on. But I think he's
a competitive guy that can make shots. And I think
Payden is going to be really important to him because
he's a little bit different. He's more of a pure
point guard than anyone else they have. But the best
(07:23):
two teams have always had a couple of veterans that
basically understand what two basketball is all about. And I
think they got that in Caleb Foster, and I think
they got that in Mikel Brown. So I like again
another I like their team. Do they have flaws? Everyone
has flaws. Do they need to get better? Sure on it.
But we didn't need to get better. Why does it
just cancel the season right now? I mean, you know,
(07:45):
when school's out, you're in the lab. I mean these
kids look in the gym anyway. But the job John's done,
you know, to me, his leadership is incredibly underappreciated, incredibly
like his ability to go handle a tough situation with
poise and focus is a lesson in leadership. I'm just
(08:09):
so impressed with him.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Well, see I agree, And that's where I wanted to
go quickly next because if anybody knows how hard it
is to win in this league, ats you. You were
the coach of the year in this conference twice. John
gets his one hundredth win, the fastest to ever do it,
topping Vic Boubas. You know who did it back in
nineteen sixty four. So, I mean, listen, it's Duke. They're
expected to win. He took over a monster of a program.
But like, what do you think of how he took
(08:33):
that baton and has done what he's done at such
a young age.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
It's incredibly impressive.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's impressive and not surprising. But it's this is John
Schier's basketball program right now. I mean that's the way
it is. I mean, coach K's the patriarch of this program.
But in terms of the program it's in. They've got
the core beliefs of old school Duke, but by guy
(09:00):
a different vision, and part of the vision is how
he coaches his team. The poise that he coaches his
teams with. Uh, he coaches this guys really hard, but
he does it in a way that they have total
trust and belief in them. It's it's a different Uh,
it's a different approach. Uh. It's demanding, for sure, but
(09:22):
it's in his own personality. And that's what you have
to do. You've got to coach in your own personality.
I mean, John Sharp is a great player. He played
for the greatest college coach in the history of the
game in my in mighty era, for sure. But John
Shock can't be coach Kate. There's only one coach, k
and you know what is only gonna be one John
(09:42):
Shire and John Shire waging in which he conducts his business.
H in the way he carries himself, the way he
coaches his team, the way he communicates, the way he connects. Uh,
he's got a gift. He's really got a gift.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Seth Greenberg with us here on a Wednesday, Coach, what
would you say to NC State fans who are feeling
a little bit shaky or concerned after Will Wade and
company getting off to a seven and four start?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Patience, patients, you know it takes time. You want. The
first thing is acquired talent, then trying to figure out
your talent. Uh, you've got to have some separation in
your lineup, you know, Like I go back to guys
trying to play ten eleven guys. You just can't do it.
You try to keep eleven guys happy, you're gonna have
eleven guys upset. You try to keep eleven guys happy,
(10:30):
you're going to submit to some badline of offensively defensively,
Uh their system is difficult. Uh so, you know, because
it's instinctive, especially on the defensive end, You've got to
see plays develop early, and you know, that's where I
think they've got to continue to get better. When I
think of will Ward's teams, I think are disruptive. I
(10:52):
don't think they've been as disruptive as they'd like them
to be. Offensively, they've got a lot of different weapons.
But you're out, like, how do you use Darrie Williams.
I mean, he's really a four man that you can
play at three and create a matchup problem with. You know,
Matt Abel is so talented, but can he get up
the speed in terms of the defense? You know, Like
you know, the copl Kate is like will Security blanket
(11:15):
in a lot of ways because he understands exactly what
he wants to get done, you know, figuring out which
big guys are really you know, like the now and
you know he plays five. Yeah, he can do some things,
but he's not you know, they probably have to eventually
get Musa to the point where he can play legitimate minutes.
So look, he's a good coach and everyone wants instant results.
(11:39):
He's not playing in the Southland anymore. He's not playing
the schedule in the South Point anymore. He doesn't have
to get a team just typed up for like Clemson
in the NCAA Tournament. It's you know, it's each and
every game. It's all these non conference games. You know,
you're a big game on someone's schedule. But I think
they'll be fine. And I think there'll be a team
that's gonna probably be in the NCAA Tournament. They're gonna
have opportunities with their schedule. Uh, in terms of the
(12:03):
league's gonna give him more opportunities. Uh. And they're gonna
have to win those games. You got to you gotta
win games again against the field, and you surely can't
lose any games from the bottom of the conference. Uh.
And that you know, the bottom of the conference has
not helped itself, but there is a top to the conference.
You know, Virginia's better Virginia Tech's better, Carolina's good. You know, uh,
(12:25):
you know, Duke's good. There's more good teams in the conference.
Notre Dame has improved. There's just more good teams in
the conference, which gives you more opportunities.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, well, said Leonardi. I think has eight A CEC
teams as in as of this week, but we got
a long way to go.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Well that's the fact that I'm not gonna argue with Joe.
I mean, if on this thing he says you're in, well,
better put your head on that pillow. You you should.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Slip really well, there you go, coach. Always enjoyed man,
Thank you so much for the time. Happy holidays to
you and yours.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Thanks to you, guys.
We got to talk some hoops right now. Carolina and
Duke both taking care of business. Last night, albeit in
different ways. We got to talk about our rookie phenom
here with the Hornets, Conk Nipple, and we do it
with a good friend of the show, in longtime ESPN
college basketball analyst. You catch him on college game day.
He also happens to be two time ACC Coach of
the Year. Our friend Seth Greenberg hanging out with us
(00:21):
here on a Wednesday. Coach, how you been man? I
appreciate the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Time any better. I couldn't stand myself just sitting here
watching ball on you know what's going to happen in
the next few days. It's been a great preseason. I'm
never really ask your college basketball. The non conference season
has been great. The matchups have been great each and
every night. College basketball never disappoints.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It's been tremendous. I agree with you, but you'll have
to forgive me. I'll get back to college hoops in
a second, because here in Charlotte, we have been amazed
by Conk Nipple here during his rookie season. I told
you yesterday I wanted to get your thoughts on this.
He's got seven games of twenty five points plus. I
believe that's more than every other rookie combined to this
stage in the season. I think he would be the
NBA's Rookie of the Year if the season stopped today.
(01:03):
I don't honestly recall what your exact opinion of him
was as a prospect coming out of the draft, But
what did you think of him as a prospect, and
what do you think about what we've seen so far?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I love him as a prospect. The physical body, a
leap three point shooter, high basketball. Iq Uh has a
feel for the game. Ces plays early competitive. It's interesting
because I was at his first Summer League game and
I'm not sure he scored in that game, and I
remember looking across at his family and they were like worried,
(01:32):
and I was trying. I felt like walking over Ago,
like this is this is just the very beginning stages.
He's going to be fine. He is who he is.
He's going to make shots, He's going to make the
right play. He's competitive, he's physical, he's strong, he makes
the game easier. He's easy to play with. And then
you know, the next game he dropped like thirty Uh
he's a terrific basketball player, and you know, he just
(01:55):
has a great steal for the game and being easy
to play with is some thing that is really really important.
You know, you can put him in a lot of
different situations and the impects winning real quick.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I mean, I think it's he and Steph Curry the
only players in the NBA with eighty plus threes on
forty percent or better shooting right now. We know he
can shoot it, but he's scoring from multiple levels. He's
distributing the ball pretty well. I'm not saying he's a
finished product by any stretch of the imagination, but is
there an area of his game that you think has
been the most surprising as it relates to acclimating to
the NBA rapidly?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
You know, I think he was an underrated defender. Yeah,
I think he's a fairly physical defender. He's not, for
sure a very position a good positional defender, So that
was probably it. Peops a lot. How we don't have
to hide him defensively. I'm not sure you have to
hide him defensively. You know, he's hard to screen, which
is the biggest thing in that league. You know, you
put him on an island. You probably he's probably not
(02:50):
going to get a stop, but who gets a stop
when you put on an island. But in terms of
being a connected defender, being an active and alert defender,
being a guy that has a feel for being in
the right spot, being good off the ball, he's very good.
So I just think he's physically mature, he's emotionally mature.
He's competitive. It's much more than just his shot making.
(03:16):
It's his IQ and his ability to play and be
successful as part of the good of the group. And
I think that's the thing that John prepared him for.
And I also think that's kind of the essence of
who he is as a person and a player.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
All right, let's talk some college hoops.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Carolina last night beats East Tennessee State by nineteen. Etsu
is a good basketball team. Carolina ends up running away.
Massive night from Henry Vasar, a great night from Caleb
Wilson as well.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And you know this as well as anybody.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Roy's best teams had loaded front courts, guys that could
do a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
They seem to have that this year.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
What do you think of the way those two guys
have changed the complexion of Carolina basketball from last year
to this year. And it's a totality. You know, how
much more work do they have to do? And one
they're good team, but you know it's more than just
that at Carolina of course.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, they're back to the future. I mean, that's the
best way for me to discarb it. They're back to
the future. There. They look like Carolina team, and they
got athleticism, you know, in the front corner Wilson, They've
got a dominant guy that has versatility, and these are
you see developing players across the board. When they get
Seth Trimble back, they'll have one more dog to add
to the lineup. Who you know, he's the only you know,
(04:27):
rotation player that's basically back with him, and he's got
incredible leadership skills. You can defend multiple positions, you can
make enough shots, you can get to the rim. But
while he's been out, you've seen the development of a
Derek Dixon who's now getting more confident. So when he
comes back, he's coming back to and I said, this
is the same thing about Darren Peterson. He's coming back
(04:49):
to a more mature, confident team. So you know, I
like their right lineup. I like Stevenson give him a
little bit more consistency. I think that's very important. But
I like their basketball team. I think they remind me
a lot of you know, old school Carolina teams, you know,
their quick past back in transition. They can play high
(05:10):
low basketball, they can play in the half court. They
have enough shot makers around the floor, and they're going
to have depth when Trimple comes back. So I really
like their team.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Duke.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Also, last night, slow start, really sleepy against lipscumb There
are probably a lot of reasons for that. Sixteen turnovers
in sixteen minutes to start the game certainly didn't look great.
They were only up three at the halftime, But man,
they really turned things on in the second half and
looked more like the Duke team that we've expected.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That team, of course, last year fell short of a title.
This so this team so far this year has knocked
off one heavyweight after the other. What do we think
of Duke to this stage just in terms of title contention,
you know, overall talent, you know the makeup of this team.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
What's been your opinion?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I don't like their team, you know, I like what
John's been able to do. Look lest yesterday coming out
of finals. You know, all the students are leaving. It's
a it's a totally you know, those games are tough
and let's go plays a style of basketball. If they're
making shots, uh, you know, they're dangerous and they you know,
do help them the turnovers. Well, they've got to get
consistent point guard play. They get consistent point guard play,
(06:16):
play starters play making enough scoring or shot you know,
shot threat out of the point guard. You know, they
think about the game, good point guard play. Calm Foster
also he made those two you know, those two big plays.
Think about the Michigan State game, Kellum Foster. Ball goes in,
relocates both, ball goes back out then and that's down
to three. So look, I like, I like their roster. Uh,
(06:39):
Camvas didn't vomitate. Uh. You know, Patrick's gotten better. You
see his growth, which is is really important. I think
John's trying to figure out the pieces in terms of lineups.
He not only that he wants to play, but that
he can't play together. And that's what happens when you're
playing eight to nine guys. You've got to be very
(07:01):
careful of stubbing into lineups that maybe just don't work now.
Amania is going to be a good player. I think
he's probably the one that taking the longest time for
the light bulb to go on. But I think he's
a competitive guy that can make shots. And I think
Payden is going to be really important to him because
he's a little bit different. He's more of a pure
point guard than anyone else they have. But the best
(07:23):
two teams have always had a couple of veterans that
basically understand what two basketball is all about. And I
think they got that in Caleb Foster, and I think
they got that in Mikel Brown. So I like again
another I like their team. Do they have flaws? Everyone
has flaws. Do they need to get better? Sure on it.
But we didn't need to get better. Why does it
just cancel the season right now? I mean, you know,
(07:45):
when school's out, you're in the lab. I mean these
kids look in the gym anyway. But the job John's done,
you know, to me, his leadership is incredibly underappreciated, incredibly
like his ability to go handle a tough situation with
poise and focus is a lesson in leadership. I'm just
(08:09):
so impressed with him.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Well, see I agree, And that's where I wanted to
go quickly next because if anybody knows how hard it
is to win in this league, ats you. You were
the coach of the year in this conference twice. John
gets his one hundredth win, the fastest to ever do it,
topping Vic Boubas. You know who did it back in
nineteen sixty four. So, I mean, listen, it's Duke. They're
expected to win. He took over a monster of a program.
But like, what do you think of how he took
(08:33):
that baton and has done what he's done at such
a young age.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
It's incredibly impressive.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's impressive and not surprising. But it's this is John
Schier's basketball program right now. I mean that's the way
it is. I mean, coach K's the patriarch of this program.
But in terms of the program it's in. They've got
the core beliefs of old school Duke, but by guy
(09:00):
a different vision, and part of the vision is how
he coaches his team. The poise that he coaches his
teams with. Uh, he coaches this guys really hard, but
he does it in a way that they have total
trust and belief in them. It's it's a different Uh,
it's a different approach. Uh. It's demanding, for sure, but
(09:22):
it's in his own personality. And that's what you have
to do. You've got to coach in your own personality.
I mean, John Sharp is a great player. He played
for the greatest college coach in the history of the
game in my in mighty era, for sure. But John
Shock can't be coach Kate. There's only one coach, k
and you know what is only gonna be one John
(09:42):
Shire and John Shire waging in which he conducts his business.
H in the way he carries himself, the way he
coaches his team, the way he communicates, the way he connects. Uh,
he's got a gift. He's really got a gift.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Seth Greenberg with us here on a Wednesday, Coach, what
would you say to NC State fans who are feeling
a little bit shaky or concerned after Will Wade and
company getting off to a seven and four start?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Patience, patients, you know it takes time. You want. The
first thing is acquired talent, then trying to figure out
your talent. Uh, you've got to have some separation in
your lineup, you know, Like I go back to guys
trying to play ten eleven guys. You just can't do it.
You try to keep eleven guys happy, you're gonna have
eleven guys upset. You try to keep eleven guys happy,
(10:30):
you're going to submit to some badline of offensively defensively,
Uh their system is difficult. Uh so, you know, because
it's instinctive, especially on the defensive end, You've got to
see plays develop early, and you know, that's where I
think they've got to continue to get better. When I
think of will Ward's teams, I think are disruptive. I
(10:52):
don't think they've been as disruptive as they'd like them
to be. Offensively, they've got a lot of different weapons.
But you're out, like, how do you use Darrie Williams.
I mean, he's really a four man that you can
play at three and create a matchup problem with. You know,
Matt Abel is so talented, but can he get up
the speed in terms of the defense? You know, Like
you know, the copl Kate is like will Security blanket
(11:15):
in a lot of ways because he understands exactly what
he wants to get done, you know, figuring out which
big guys are really you know, like the now and
you know he plays five. Yeah, he can do some things,
but he's not you know, they probably have to eventually
get Musa to the point where he can play legitimate minutes.
So look, he's a good coach and everyone wants instant results.
(11:39):
He's not playing in the Southland anymore. He's not playing
the schedule in the South Point anymore. He doesn't have
to get a team just typed up for like Clemson
in the NCAA Tournament. It's you know, it's each and
every game. It's all these non conference games. You know,
you're a big game on someone's schedule. But I think
they'll be fine. And I think there'll be a team
that's gonna probably be in the NCAA Tournament. They're gonna
have opportunities with their schedule. Uh, in terms of the
(12:03):
league's gonna give him more opportunities. Uh. And they're gonna
have to win those games. You got to you gotta
win games again against the field, and you surely can't
lose any games from the bottom of the conference. Uh.
And that you know, the bottom of the conference has
not helped itself, but there is a top to the conference.
You know, Virginia's better Virginia Tech's better, Carolina's good. You know, uh,
(12:25):
you know, Duke's good. There's more good teams in the conference.
Notre Dame has improved. There's just more good teams in
the conference, which gives you more opportunities.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, well, said Leonardi. I think has eight A CEC
teams as in as of this week, but we got
a long way to go.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Well that's the fact that I'm not gonna argue with Joe.
I mean, if on this thing he says you're in, well,
better put your head on that pillow. You you should.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Slip really well, there you go, coach. Always enjoyed man,
Thank you so much for the time. Happy holidays to
you and yours.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Thanks to you, guys.
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