The Kyle Bailey Show: Tom Bogert

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We got Tom Bogert with US of the Athletic He
covers Major League soccer and the US national team. He's
one of the leading authorities on all things soccer and
excited to have him to talk about a big opportunity
for Charlotte FC coming up on Friday. Tom. We appreciate you, buddy.
How are you.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Let's go on, guys, thank you for having me. Yeah,
sorry about the little delay, but hey, we're here now.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's all good. I do have to mention too, just
as a man who grew up with a dad who
rocked a legendary mustache, you got a great mustache, man, Like.
I know, that's a weird way for me to start
this conversation, but that's one of the When I told
people earlier today I got Tom Bogert on the show,
two of the three people immediately said, man, that guy's
got a great stash. So I just wanted to let you.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Know that I appreciate that. It's my entire personality, Chap,
So every compliment is is well appreciated. I promise you that.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I bet it is a hell of a conversation starter.
I bet it is all right. Well, anyway, it's glorious,
So we appreciate you bringing the stash to the conversation.
In all seriousness, though, give it. Give me your thoughts
on the first two matches in this series and what
we take away from it.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, it comes down to these are two teams that
are both quite good, and they are very similar in
terms of their quality. So it is not surprising in
any way for this to be going to three games.
The way that we got there, of course, as it
always is in sports, is never quite straightforward. The game
one with no Wilford Dah, Charlotte looks really constipated going forward,

(01:20):
quite honestly. But then this team has been resilient, the
team under Dean Smith in particular, they fight, they got dogs.
So them going on the road and being able to
grid out a result against City with Christian Kalinas standing
on his head like he kind of did in the
shootout like that is the way that we got here.
Is interesting. But Game three I think I would have

(01:41):
very very safely bet on before the series started.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, well that makes sense. Game two at Yankee Stadium,
Charlotte held NYCFC scoreless through ninety minutes one via penalty
shootout despite NYCFC dominating possession. What does that tell you,
maybe if anything, about Charlotte's mindset and adjustment after Game one?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I think that that. I think that they tried
to do that in game one as well, and they
depended well in game one, and there was a really
a really moment of brilliant by Alonzo Martinez for n
YCSC was an individual moment. Alonso is a really really
good player, but a lot of his goals come from
good service and his movement and his technique is so
so top in this league. We haven't seen him do

(02:21):
it he did to Charlotte in that game. That was
that was an outlier that was really really impressive. But
other than that show, it depended well and NYCFC, to
their credit, they get that goal. They know Charlotte isn't
going to really be able to break them down with
no Daha, no pet Bil. Those are the two guys
that are unlocking the door for this team, so they
kind of sat in and made it difficult. Charlotte didn't
really threaten. They had a couple a couple of little moments,

(02:42):
but nothing kind of sustained. So going into Game two,
I figured that they were going to sit deep again
defend harder because they're on the road in NYCFC has
to make the game, but they should have been able
to threaten more in transition with with Zaha back. So
Game three, I'm expecting, and maybe I'm just really hoping
that Charlotte are going to kind of take the game
by the scruff of the neck and say no, no, no,
we want to get on the ball. We don't need

(03:03):
a defendan hittory transition. We're going to do that too,
but like, hey, we're good enough that we're just going
to break you down and we don't need to try
to wait for you to get give us moments a transition.
So I'm very curious to know that'll go. It's a big, big.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Day for wilverdas Charlotte's been strong defensively for much of
the year. In your opinion, who deserves more credit the
back line itself, Christian Kalina in goal or Dean Smith's system.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
It don't be a boring answer, but it's always a
combination of the three. Dean Smith's system first and foremost,
like when he took over that that was kind of
the driving force. Christian Kallina wins goalkeeper the Year last year,
completely well deserved. I voted for him. He I thought
was clearly the best goalkeeper in twenty twenty four. Along
the way, you have a dilsent Milanda going from a

(03:47):
you know, it's really talented, interesting young player to like
oh Man like he's one of the best defenders in
the league. You have a couple in central midfielders actually Westwood,
Brant Brownekolk, whatever role he's playing, they are really diligent
runners and and cautious in the right way to not
leave the back line exposed. So I think it all
comes down to a combination of those of those three things.

(04:09):
So I honestly I probably lean with Dean Smith, though
I do have some colleagues who wish that he would
do a little bit more in terms of being aggressive
going forward, but he can knock the results.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Can you go back to Zaha for a second, just
in terms of I always like to do this. You know,
the entire season is a journey, not to be cringe
about it, but it is what it is, and like
you know it is, it's a journey, and so what
you expect in the beginning oftentimes isn't what you thought
you'd get or sometimes it is, but it's different than
how you think you'd get there, Like what do you

(04:39):
how do you reconcile maybe what you thought about Wilfrid
Zaha's arrival here versus what they've gotten so far.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
That's a really interesting question. It has been kind of different, different,
you know, chapters of the season. And I was speaking
with Charlotte Spooris directors Ron Cornetta last week and he
kind of said, like, so Zaha he kind of ruggle
at the beginning, Like he wasn't like weedy bad. It
wasn't like oh my god, like what like how do
they get out of this signing? Right? Like he had moments,

(05:07):
but he wasn't consistent enough. He was seeming to get frustrated.
He was throw in a little bit to adapt and
Zor and Frenetta wasn't like he brings that up to
me and says like you know, every like I don't know,
maybe he didn't really quite realize it, and not not
in an unprofessional way, but just like this league is
really are on the field, they are they are. It
is very athletic. There are combative players. That is transitional.

(05:29):
You need to be able to stand up to the
figure of the physical riggers and then off the field.
I mean, well, for Zat, like in anyone almost an
entire career, their longest road trip is like a four
hour trade like that. That might be Charlotte's shortest away
match of this season, you know. So there were things
like that that are dificists to get used to, and
he settled into like this more creative role rather than

(05:52):
feeling the need to be more of a finisher, and
I think that really locked a lot of things to
the team. This is when Eaton Poklamanni was hitting his
like scorching red hot phase of scoring goals. So wilfrid
Da can and should be expected to score as well.
But he kind of found his role as like, okay,
like I need to set up some of the guys
that like get on the ball more rather than trying
to beat out of the last man forward and having

(06:15):
the responsibility finishing off plays. No, no, no, they need me
to create. So I'm going to create and really clips
down during that winning treat down the end of the season.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Tom Bogert the Athletic covers Major League Soccer with us
hanging out here on a Wednesday afternoon, two quick things
we'll get you back about your day. Temper Sports and
Entertainment obviously owned Charlotte f C, also the Carolina Panthers.
I bring that up because, you know, as a sports
talk host, I am probably far more qualified to talk
about the organizational building of a team as it relates

(06:41):
to American football, and we do that every single day,
and really I am, but like you know, I'm fascinated by,
you know, the first couple of years of Charlotte f C.
Learning about how they do things. You mentioned Zoron Karnetta.
What do you think of overall their organizational philosophy, how
they've built this roster, how they're developing players. You know,
obviously the organization still very much in its infancy big picture,

(07:02):
but what have they done so far that you liked
that maybe uh points toward a continued bright future for
the organization.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
So it took them a couple of trick on the
head coach, And one thing that I did appreciate was
it was super collaborative and they wanted to give like
full belief to their first head coach and did not
let sir a long and same thing with their second
head coach. And I think that throughout that product, and
they weren't like awful at any point, but it was
very clear, like the coaching changes were necessary. And you

(07:31):
can give critiques to the front office for hiring those people,
for sure, but I think that the processes were right.
And now they have Dean Smith, well, I think it's
a good manager and they've learned from a couple of
those mistakes. And no, they're not going to hit on
every signing, and they haven't hit on every signing. But
the good news is is they've tried different strategies kind
of all at once. Like they haven't been like, hey,

(07:52):
we're just going to try to go after either aiding
stars or you know, twenty one year olds from South
America or whatever, right, Like they've tried all of these
different things. While looking at the second team, the academy
is obviously very young North Carolina. This is going to
be a team that produces a lot of really good
young players. That's not going to happen immediately, Like he said,
this is a young club, so that's going to be
part of the team. But along the way they draft

(08:14):
past the Goadja Mounts, they bring him into the first team.
Andrew Privitt is somebody who came through the second team
like those are things that teams that are this young
don't often do this quickly, So I think that they
deserve a lot of credit for that kind of scouting
and that kind of developing. They've showed ambition in the
transfer market getting Wolf for Dahn. Getting that signing right
was really really important. Again, they've gotten some wrong, like

(08:35):
every other club in MS has, but they've gotten a
lot right, particularly over the last eighteen months, so they've
established a baseline here and again I think things are
at a really good spot with the ownership group. They've
got a lot of money. If more and more of
that comes as orphan out of the front offices are
clearly establishing that they know how to spend the money correctly,

(08:56):
I think that there will be more and more of
that to come. And in socc a no MLS is
really unique because of the South, the salary cap rules,
and all the difficulties that you can't just outspend everybody
to win. In global soccer. The only core, like the
strongest correlation is your wage bill is pretty directly tied
to where you finish in the league. So the idea

(09:16):
is if Charlotte are knocking out these like cheaper signings
that they have a Milanda wasn't a big time signing, right,
You're going down the list? Okay, Well, then the next
time they have fifteen million dollars to spend on a
top of the line player, they get that, right. That
elevates everything. So I think that there's a lot a
lot of good here and this season is a culmination of.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
That last thing. Real quick. Those guys don't have the
luxury of looking ahead, but talking heads like me and
writers like you do. If Charlotte FC gets pasted NYCFC
on Friday, Philadelphia awaits, what do you think about the matchup?

Speaker 2 (09:49):
I think that whoever again, like I think this for
sure that I know that was the question. But I
think the thread like CFC two, whoever gets through this series,
they are an absolute live dog. I respect the Hella
Phiodelphia Union, really love what they do. Historically, particularly in
recent MLS history over the last decades, teams that play
the Philadelphia Union style it's not easy to do that

(10:11):
through the playoffs. That's the style that is much better
in the regular season because the consistency, the combativeness, the running,
all that like anything could happen in a one off game,
of course, but you look back at the recent MF
Cup winners, the majority over the last handful of years
have been the Deafen Bay Team, Thomas Crew and the
LA Galaxy. The last two in particular, the New York
Red Bulls teams in the late twenty tens or some

(10:33):
of the best I've seen in the regular seasons, they
always kind of fell short in the playoffs, and that's
probably unfair of the Philadelphia Union. But there's still a
team without attacking starts. There's still a team that plays
the system that we don't really see win MLS Cup
in these playoffs. So whether it's Charlotte or whether it's NSCSC,
they've got to be feeling like again, they're only focused

(10:53):
on on Friday night on Game three, of course, but
you know Saturday morning comes around, whoever wins, they're gonna
be looking like, shoot, why not? Up?

Speaker 1 (11:00):
I love it, Tom. We appreciate the time, buddy, Thank
you enjoying the game. We'll talk to you down the road.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, thank you very much,