185. The Future of Golf: Mizuno’s Engineering, Marketing & Game-Changing Innovations

Dive into the world of Mizuno Golf with Brad Burns and Chris Boshell as they explore Mizuno’s rich history, cutting-edge engineering, the evolution of golf, and the impact of The Foundry—their premium custom fitting center. From pandemic-driven golf booms to mastering your game, this episode is packed with insights that every golfer needs!

Key Takeaways

• Mizuno’s engineering excellence dates back to 1906, rooted in innovation.
• The pandemic brought millions of new golfers into the sport, reshaping the market.
• The Foundry offers premium club fittings, accessible to all golfers, not just pros.
• A proper fitting can transform your game—even for beginners.
• Mizuno’s shift from an elite-only brand to a mass-market powerhouse is changing golf.
• Marketing golf gear isn’t just about product specs—it’s storytelling that drives consumer engagement.

#MizunoGolf #GolfEquipment #GolfStrategy #GolfMarketing #CustomFitting #TheFoundry #GolfEvolution #SportsInnovation #GolfGrowth #NothingFeelsLikeAMizuno

patreon.com/TheMarketingMadMen: https://www.nick-constantino.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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What do Eminem freestyles, cutting edge golf, and a game
changing fitting experience havein common?
Mizuno is transforming the way you play, whether you're chasing
birdies or just trying to break 100.
We dive into the precision engineering, marketing mastery,

(00:43):
and what makes The Foundry a must visit.
Stick around. This one's for every golfer.
They say marketing is a madman'sgame, so now we turned it over
to the marketing Madman with Nick Constantino and Trip Joe.
Happy Saturday and welcome to the marketing Mad Men and I'm
going to introduce our guests. But, but first I want to let you
know that an M&M freestyle just broke out in this studio and we

(01:05):
went with drug ballot, which is so freaking impressive because I
was thinking the usual lose yourself or maybe a Stan, but we
went drug ballot. So that'll give you an idea
about what we're about to talk about.
So with that being said, I'm going to introduce Brad first
because he's the one who droppedthe freestyle start.
So we got Brad Burns. Brad, how you doing bud?
I'm. Doing well, thanks for having.
Us good to have you and we got Chris Voschel of Mizuno Golf and
we're going to actually talk about golf as much as I want to

(01:27):
do an M&M show we're gonna have to pick table that for now and
we're gonna talk golf so most importantly to start let me tell
a quick story because I don't think I've told this on the show
and you guys will appreciate this.
I moved to Atlanta 10 1/2 years ago I started here at 6A the fan
the owner David Dickey was like you play golf and my natural
reaction is of course I do neverplayed golf before so he goes
cool be here on Friday. So here just happened to be

(01:49):
Eastlake here just happened to be the same month as a Tour
Championship here just happened to be with the GM of the Atlanta
Braves, Frank Friend at the time.
So I played in Eastlake at the tour.
The we put Tour champions with all stanchions up with the bunch
of Braves players. And I never played golf before.
So my natural reaction, I boughtWilson Clubs for $80.00 at
Sports Authority. I was wearing twill khakis and

(02:10):
like an ugly polo and I was so in over my head.
It's disgusting. I'm sure you shot 72.
So. The beauty.
He's like, this is where caddiesreally helped.
So the caddy said a couple things.
First off, I found the youngest person because it's a big
tournament. They had a $500 credit at the
store. So I'm like, dress me like I'm a
child. I need you to dress me and put
me in a position to look acceptable.

(02:30):
So I was dressed then the caddy said I the caddy just kind of
saw me shake. He's like dude, chill out.
I'm like why? He goes just get drunk.
I go, what do you mean he goes just blame the booze.
I was like that I can do. So there's my first time playing
golf. So that is in Atlanta in East
like now. Luckily 2 of the people I played
with, Bruce Scala and Andy Kristen became clients and
friends. I didn't embarrass myself that

(02:50):
badly. I've since taken revenge on
Eastlake, meaning I think I probably shot a 98, but which is
much better than a 0.0000. So that's my golf story.
So that'll give you an idea of what kind of show we're gonna
have. Here, Well, the only thing I
would add to that is we need to upgrade you from the Wilsons to
Mizuno. So I think that'll help out.
The good news is I had Mizuno wedges and I have played it a
long time ago. I'm not sure in the 98 on old

(03:11):
Wilson. I think they might have still
been made of wood, the woods. All right, so enough with the
funny stuff because look, Mizuno, first of all, let's talk
about the pedigree and the history of Mizuno because I
think with most international companies, right, you have to go
back and you have to tell a story that probably didn't start
in golf, probably didn't start in volleyball.
So Chris, why don't we do the the quick version to bring us up

(03:32):
to speed to just how big Mizuno is and why this big push into
golf was so meaningful and so important.
Sure, absolutely. I mean, Mizuno goes back a long
ways. Nineteen O 6 is when it got
founded. Rihachi Mizuno, a Japanese guy
about 5 foot six, it was a big baseball player.
He he he and his brother starteda sporting goods store in Osaka,
Japan. And with that, they wanted to

(03:54):
kind of, I'd say revolutionized the way baseball was tested.
And one of the great stories about him was in their baseball
store, he actually devised a method to measure the cor of a
ball of dropping it from a certain height.
How high could that ball bounce back?
And that was kind of the start of, you know, not only are we

(04:16):
selling equipment, but we can make and and improve equipment
from there. Wow.
So with that, that was 19 O 6. That was baseball.
Mizuno, then has come a long wayas a small source store in
Osaka, Japan. And now we're international and
basically every sport you can imagine, you watch the Olympics,
huge in the Olympics, you'll seethe the curling team wearing
Mizuno run birds on their on their shirts, swimwear got some

(04:38):
of the most competitive stuff inthe world.
And obviously we're here becausewe are on the golf side.
And to a golfer, I don't think there's anything better than a
Mizuno Golf Club. Yeah.
And I think my understanding andplease correct me if I'm wrong,
but that was always the core of it, right?
The the modernizing and the equipment.
It wasn't so much the lifestyle brand that you see with a lot of
these St. wear brands and the manufacturers.

(04:58):
It was more making things betterand it was the technology and
the improvement, which was so ahead of its curve.
I mean, you know, I actually, I just listened to a podcast
about, I don't know, it was Adidas and Puma were brothers in
Germany and they like had a falling out and they went
different ways. And one was more of this.
So it's, it's amazing that all of these things really first
started as a problem for a, a solution for a problem, right.

(05:21):
Hey, the equipment's great. The players aren't getting any
better. How do we tweak the the
equipment to make these kids better?
That's exactly right. And that's what's so cool about
Mizuno. And we are very much an
engineering company. You know, you look at the
history of us, what we've done with revolutionizing this COR of
a baseball, creating gliders andstuff, competitive gliders was
going back in the day, stuff we did.
But then implementing new processes on the manufacturing

(05:44):
side across all different sportsis something that we really, you
know, hang our hat on. Yeah.
And we're going to come back to that, especially on golf.
Brad, I'm going to turn it over to you.
So talk a little bit about the evolution of golf.
Obviously, we can do like everybody and just let's start
with Tiger and go from there because that's pretty much the
story of modern golf. But talk more about the past 10
years. Talk about the rise of kind of
the casual golfer, talk about COVID getting people out and

(06:07):
playing. Talk about how we got to the
point where it was so important for Mizuno to kind of stamp this
flag in Atlanta and in the country.
Yeah, I mean, I think golf in general, you, you definitely saw
it with Tiger Woods, the GOAT ofof the PGA Tour, and just
everybody was tuned in. And then if you were there, you
know, you were following his group, you know, and the amount
of wins that he was able to rackup, I think was 82, which I was

(06:30):
actually at Eastlake when he wonthat one and and rushed the 18th
green. So a good memory for me.
But, you know, thinking back through, you know, my childhood
leading up, you know, my dad played golf, always went with my
dad. You know, you knew Tiger Woods.
I think as I've gotten older, gotten a little bit more
competitive with golf and that'sreally when it's gotten fun.
And then I've been on board withMizuno for seven months now.

(06:52):
So I'm still fairly new to the golf industry, been in marketing
all my career. But, you know, now it's the the
competitiveness, I think is really been a major driver for
me and wanting to get better, wanting to shoot lower scores,
wanted to be able to compete within, you know, the confines
of the industry. But the pandemic is, you know,

(07:13):
looking back at our sales numbers again, haven't been with
Mizuno golf that long. But looking back, the pandemic
is really what, you know, kind of soared our sales into a a new
category with, you know, recreational sports across the
board. I was in power sports before
Mizuno and we saw the same thing.
Yeah. Just the outdoor, just being
outside, that's where the networking.
Yeah, you know, dads that had never ridden a motorcycle before

(07:35):
were going in and buying three of them so that him and his two
sons or daughters or whomever could go ride.
So I think, you know, same with RV's and boats and again,
fishing gear, like anything thatwas recreational really took off
during the pandemic. So if there was a silver lining
to that, I think that would thatwould be it from a a sport
industry side. But you know, honestly, now, you

(07:56):
know, Mizuno golf, I think we'restill sort of catching up a
little bit to the growth that wesaw during the pandemic and
that, you know, really the industry saw the numbers are,
you know, they've, they've flattened since the pandemic,
but they're staying steady, which to me means a lot of
people that maybe got into golf during that time frame have
stuck with it and they found, you know, people to play with,

(08:16):
whether it's more on the leisureside or it is being competitive.
I just think people got a littlebit of taste of how great the
game is and, and they've stuck with it and they've really
enjoyed it, you know, wherever they play and whoever they play.
With I, I think it's a good point.
I think there's, for me, there'sbeen stages of golf, right?
Stage 1 was the I'll play in a tournament every once in a
while, I'll have a bunch of drinks and I'm there for the

(08:37):
goof. And then the next stage was the,
Oh, you know, I start enjoying going to top golf and because
it's a little, I'm not as much pressure on I'm, I'm better
there. And then stage 3 was finally the
oh, OK, I might actually be OK at this.
Like I'm not an embarrassment tothe people around me.
And then stage 4 was now I have a goal breaking 100, right?
And then you get better. And that's what I like about the
game, right? Look, you could can be a

(08:57):
basketball player win on athleticism alone and you'll
always play the same kind of basketball.
You have a mate, have an off day, but if you can't shoot,
you're driving. Like there's always things you
can do in the game of golf. You're really just playing
against yourself and and you're it's you versus yourself, which
is a district different beasts all together.
Well. A funny story A short time after
starting with Mizuno, I was by far the worst golfer on the
course and have since made some progress.

(09:18):
I think I'm still the worst golfer on the course within the
Mizuno Golf Group, however, hitting the ball where I can
keep it in play. But after a few months, I went
home to my wife and I just said I'm I'm really tired of being
terrible at golf. And she, you know, very
concerned, said, well, well, what can we do?
And I said, well, I just got to play more golf.
And she kind of hesitated for a minute because she really wasn't
expecting that answer. Maybe she was expecting like

(09:40):
simulator in the basement answer, But we kind of have a
laugh about that now. But it it's once you can start
to hit the ball where you want to and shoot score on the golf
course, it really it changes thegame.
And it takes it from, you know, this, hey, drinking with the
buddies, playing for leisure to like, all right, now I'm really
going to, you know, it kind of remains me of the game of like

(10:00):
billiards of pool where you're setting up for that next shot.
Yeah. And when you kind of get to that
skill level where you can do that, it it becomes fun,
especially when you pull it off so.
Yeah, for sure. I think that the you know let's
let's end this segment. We got a couple 3 more minutes
or so. Let's give before we get to the
foundry because it's gonna be important part for avid golfers
like tips, like I'm going to give a tip if you, if you're

(10:20):
just starting golf, like the natural reaction as an athlete
is to want to hit the ball far and learn to drive first, right?
It is the worst thing you can do, right?
Because what you should start with is a 60 and work your way
backwards because if you can chip and play that short game,
you're more confident in everything else because it
doesn't matter where the ball ends when you hit it off the
tee. So there's much less pressure on
you. Nobody told me that.
So I'm sitting there learning todrive.

(10:42):
I got this big arcing swing because I don't know what the
hell I'm doing. I'm hitting the ball 200 yards,
but if it just went straight, it'd probably go 260.
So, but then I learned to to chip and just took a lot of time
there and I worked my way back, which has helped me immensely.
So my tip would be as an ex athlete who just thinks you're
trying to pulverize, that's not the game.
Start close, learn that and moveyour way back.
Would you have a tip to somebodygolf?
It could be an equipment tip, itcould be somebody who's in the

(11:03):
industry now. Yeah, I think one thing that's
really helped me is, you know, when you go to work on
something, whether it's the range, putting green, chipping
green, go, go work on something specific.
Don't try to work on everything in one day.
But when you're playing, I thinkfocus on contact ball contact is
the most important thing. And to your point, you don't
have to swing very hard or try to crush it to hit it 300 yards.
If you can make decent contact with the ball, typically you'll

(11:25):
keep it in play another good contact swing.
Typically you're by the green and you can really, you know,
lessen those, those out of bounds and those strokes and
those penalties that you'll, youknow, so easy to rack up for
sure. So like contact?
And my my tip would be, and something I love about golf is
the analytics that have come into it over the last little
bit. My biggest tip would be don't

(11:47):
try to make birdie, try not to make bogey.
If you do a lot of the analyticsand study what makes a good
golfer good, it's not that they hit incredible shots, it's that
they don't hit poor shots. And when you mess up, take your
medicine, get out. Play for, don't try to do a draw
over the trees. Even if you pull that shot off,

(12:07):
you're probably going to miss the putt anyway and make a putt
and make the same number. If you chip it out sideways, you
know it's it's amazing. Like the stat I heard that to me
blew me away is an 18 hand capper versus scratch golfer.
Scratch golfer makes maybe one or two birdies more per round,
18 strokes difference, but they only make one or two more
birdies. They're just.
Not double bogeys, yeah. And that's why chipping is so

(12:29):
important, right? When you're chipping those skull
shots or like it's putting from 30 yards out because you've got
no, absolutely no confidence in your club.
So, and that's a great point we're going to get back and now
we're going to talk a little bitmore in depth about the foundry
and why this was the moment for Mizuno and why Atlanta was so
important. So you've been listening to the
marketing Mad Men on Extra 106 Three and we'll be right back.

(12:51):
Now back to the marketing Mad Men on Extra 106.3.
FM welcome back to the marketingMad Men on extra 106 three, Nick
Constantino here with Brad and Chris and Mizuno golf.
All right, so let's get to the nitty gritty here.
So obviously we've set this up. COVID forced a lot of this.
Obviously, as a country, we've just been exploding in wealth.
There's more networking, there'smore private clubs than ever.

(13:11):
In fact, if you see it ironically, that what's
disappearing is that kind of entry level, that barrier to
entry for golfers. And like Top Golf became that
for a little while. The problem with Top Golf is
that once you really enjoy golf,Top Golf just bores you.
Like you're just out there and you're like, OK, like this
shtick was, but it wears thin. So money's exploding.
So Mizuno wedges are renowned throughout the industry.

(13:33):
I own them. People have talked about them,
talk about how this was the right time to really make a push
to be an all around golf companyto build that testing facility
and talk about why Atlanta is soimportant that I don't let
either of you take this one because we're going to go about
this for a good amount of time. Here, go for it.
I'll jump in and just say that. Yeah, I mean Mizuno Golf is we

(13:55):
are a complete golf equipment brand.
You know most recently in January 2025, we had the biggest
product launch in brand history.We brought to market a new set
of you know, players, irons and S3, which is our signature
series under the Mizuno Pro line.
We brought to market the JPX 925forged revolutionary, you know,
craftsmanship and engineering. The way that we build that club

(14:16):
with a hydraulic press versus a hammer press.
We also brought Mizuno Pro into,oh sorry, our golf ball into the
Mizuno Pro line as well as our wedges.
So you have Mizuno Pro S&X golf ball and then you have Mizuno
Pro T1 and T3 wedges and then M craft X putter line, which is
basically an interchangeable putter, very versatile and you

(14:38):
know, allows you to kind of build a putter to your stroke.
So the the equipment and the evolution of the equipment and,
you know, in just my short time with the brand, I think you see,
you know, that really taking offand reaching new heights and
setting new bars. And I think the foundry kind of
ties and plays right into that. You know, it's not new for a
golf brand to have a research and performance center.

(14:59):
It's new to Mizuno. And the way that we do it I
think is very new to the industry where we open it up to
everybody. Yeah, anybody can come.
We've partnered with the Standard Club over in Johns
Creek, Georgia, but anybody can go to mizunofoundry.com, book a
standard iron fitting or book a complete package for the weekend
and we've really catered it to that customer to come and have
this premium Mizuno custom fitting experience.

(15:21):
Chris, anything you want to add to that?
Well, I'll say why the timing ofthis is so awesome is we talked
a little bit before about the boom that happened after COVID.
So many new players come into the game, so many players with
their first exposure to it, buying that set of Wilson's they
bought so they could go out and just, you know, be a presentable
on the golf course. If you look at the buying cycle

(15:41):
of golf clubs, it's typically a new set of iron.
It's about every four or five years. 2020 to 2025 is perfect
timing. We're at an influx point in golf
where it's going to either be all those new players continue
with the game or all those new players go do something else.
You know if. We and there's got to be so many
external factors here, right? Let's talk about the economy.
Like there's so many variables Iplay here.

(16:03):
I mean, let's talk like HeritageGolf Links.
These are some of my favorite people.
I love them. It was my home course because
that's just where I lived. But you're talking $110 to play
on a Saturday morning. I mean, that was 55 even even
five years ago. And they know it and they're
shocked it's filled as often as it is.
Like, what do you do? It's a supply demand thing.
I'm all for free market capital capitalism, but like what
happens if we really hit now that what's going to happen is,

(16:24):
is the wealthiest people continue to play, the business
will continue to happen, but it's got to be hard to kind of
time that and and then figure out what's going to happen
there. And, and I'm curious to see.
I really am because I think thatas a net positive that golf has,
it's got all the makings of whatpeople should do, right?
Concentration, you versus yourself, competitiveness, but
also be out in the woods for ourfour hours.

(16:45):
Like it's got all the things that I think are good for sports
and for society that people should be doing more of.
I just get worried that if we hit the wrong kind of economic
turn, we've priced so many people out of it.
And it scares me, which actuallybrings me to my question I was
going to ask. So talk about when you make a
line of golf clubs, are you going after the pros first?
Are you making those? You know, you're talking about
the forged wedges. Are you making this those blades

(17:08):
for the for the main PGA golfer first?
Are you making them for the amateur first?
Are you making them in the middle first?
What is the strategy? Because it has to do something
with marketing. It, it definitely does have to
do with marketing, but Nick, I'll throw that one to Chris.
Chris is our Director of Product, so yeah.
And I love, but I love both sides of this, right?
Because you're sitting here fromthe R&D, this is how we do this.

(17:28):
But you're coming though, look, I got to get this out to the
public. So this is going to probably be
a good give and take of which let him go first.
But let's let's and then talk about the development cycle, who
we're targeting as we're developing.
And then Brad will go over you and talk about, hey, this is how
you build a marketing strategy around that, right?
Because I, I imagine you, you are a product first company for
sure. So you can't market, you have to
be a product first to be a part of first company.

(17:49):
Well, and I'll start with a little bit of history on Mizuno
where people know us as a player's company.
I think that's what put Mizuno on the map was our forging
process, our blades, our muscle backs.
You go back to, you know, some of the top golfers in the world
playing for before pay for play was a thing out on the PGA Tour.
We were the number one iron on tour for basically all of the

(18:10):
90s until early 2000s when another OBM was like, you know
what, we're going to buy these counts.
So when that happened, things changed.
Ironically, could I tell you a quick story?
Yeah. I had a PGA golfer on this show
once and I don't remember why Mizuno came up, but he actually
told me that story. He said he would be he was
playing golf and he was pretty much paid to play or whatever.
He wasn't paid. But the second that the

(18:32):
sponsorships and all that stuff started that he dropped his
Mizuno clubs. I think he went to PXU.
I don't remember the specifics, but actually it was
corroborated. I'll actually pop the episode
number in so people want to listen back.
So and again, I don't want to get into the nuance of cause
sports has been taken over by this week and go to an NIL
discussion. It's probably affected GOB
already. But I just want to say that that
has been corroborated by people on tour, that they actually

(18:52):
acknowledged that that was a thing.
Well, and it's funny, that was in the 90s and then in the in
the mid 2000s, you had Nike, whoobviously had some of the best
players in the world. They were making equipment and
then Nike stopped making equipment, yet they honored all
their contracts. With that, Mizuno saw her second
resurgence because all of a sudden players were getting paid
still, but they could play whatever we wanted.

(19:13):
So with that, Mizuno really tookoff again.
And honestly, that kind of lit the flame on a lot of what we
were doing. And you know, to go to your
question about who are we designing for, For the longest
time, because we were designing for just those better players,
our market was really small. You're talking the top 5% of
golfers. What When?
Missouri? You're probably aspirational to

(19:33):
more people. They're like, when I get good
enough, I'm going to do this, which is a great place to be in
that aspirational market. But that being said, This is why
this timing now makes sense. You need to have an entry to
that and that with that, our HotMetal line right now, our JPX
925 Hot Metal has become one of the biggest iron franchises in
golf, and that's a line that extends all the way up to the

(19:53):
highest handicaps. So there, once you pair that,
the technology, the look and thefeel of a Mizuno aimed at a
higher handicap, plus it's got all the fitting capabilities
built into it, that's kind of the perfect recipe for a brand
to kind of catch fire. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
It's almost like a a dual approach, right?
Because you got to keep one in mind, but the scalability
downward also has to be kept in mind, right.

(20:15):
So you're going to make for these pros, but does it scale to
the masses? Is it so off putting that no
one's going to ever touch it? Like I remember one of my first
things was in in golf was when Igot those, those really high
handicap irons and like, no matter how you struck this
thing, you were hitting the ballright.
And then I like I was, I don't remember.
I hit a blade. I'm like, uh oh, like you can't
even you're not even freaking close with the blade because the

(20:36):
way they make contact with the club is.
But then it then you learn how to swing differently and all
that stuff that makes a ton of sense.
So you're kind of approaching this two prong and if you catch
fire with one then it's probablymake a move to the other one.
Now talk about from a marketing point of view as you're talking
about marketing these products, obviously the demand at the
highest level, but that is that niche really small market.
So how do you think about mass market when we're we're

(20:57):
designing these products? Yeah, I mean, I think when we're
talking, you know, JPX, we're talking about that forgiveness,
we're talking about that, you know, that game improvement iron
that can really, you know, take you from 100 to, you know, sub
90, right. Like, and then we obviously
have, you know, marketing material and and and content
built around that Mizuno Pro line, which is, you know, our

(21:18):
top line. But for us, really, it all
starts with our forging process.You know, the history and the
legacy of Mizuno irons is, is built out of, you know, Chuokoyo
factory in Hiroshima, Japan, where we have forged all of our
clubs in the same facility. They forged 3 things, one of
which are Mizuno golf clubs. And it's a handshake deal.
There's no paperwork agreement. It's, it's Mizuno Corporation,

(21:41):
you know, out of Osaka, Japan and Chuokoyo factory and, and
Hiroshima, Japan. And it's been a partnership for
well over 60 years now. And I was fortunate enough to go
to the factory and see the forging process.
And when you learn about the waythat Mizuno does it versus
competitive brands in the marketplace, it's second to
none. And and you understand why our

(22:01):
tagline is nothing feels like a Mizuno.
Because when you catch a ball inthe sweet spot of a Mizuno iron
number one, it sends it #2 like you feel like you didn't even
hit the golf ball. Like it's that smooth and that
sweet. So we are in the process from a
marketing standpoint to continueto tell that story.
That's our heritage, that's our legacy and that's what makes
Mizuno golf, Mizuno golf. We are now to Chris's point with

(22:25):
the advancements of, you know, product and other categories.
I mentioned M Craft X and the putter line.
You know, we've got some metal woods in the in the pipeline
that I think are really going torevolutionize the golf game.
But wedges, balls all the way down to soft goods, bags,
putters, we don't, we don't put anything out there that we feel
like is just, you know, mailing it in from a product standpoint,

(22:47):
like there's R&D put into everything and, and we're
putting the best product out there.
So from a marketing standpoint, that's the story we're trying to
tell. And I really enjoy it because it
doesn't feel like a marketing spin or a PR spin.
It feels like I'm telling the truth.
I just need you to go put a Mizuno club in your hand, swing
it a few times and then let me know if you hate it, you hate
it. For sure.
Odds are you're going to love. It and I think so.

(23:09):
I have not been to the Mizuno factory, but I have been to the
Bridgestone Golf factory, another Japanese company and I
think it's called Kaizen. But there is this thing in Japan
where how meticulous as they are, like there's like a one out
of every thousand balls is tested.
There's someone from Japan that comes in that nobody knows that
just walks through the aisles like it's freaking World War 2.
Like just checking on everybody.There's like a steam whistle.

(23:30):
I mean, it's crazy. But the point is, and This is
why Toyota's been so successful and why Toyota's are still on
the road for 250,000 miles, meanwhile, Ford's bumpers fall
off 300 miles in is because the Japanese have been so meticulous
in these processes. So while I have not seen it in
action with Mizuno, I have seen a similarly on factory and that
is it. You're not trying to make things
fancy, you're trying to make things deliberate and good and

(23:53):
repeatable because those systemsare what actually work and those
factories or do it. So I see where you're coming
from. That being said, that's not how
the world works. The people want fancy stories
and they want fluff and they want the the shtick.
And I, and I hate it as a marketer, as someone who's gone
through it now I'm like, look, this is a real diamond.
This a three carat diamond. You can never find one that

(24:14):
looks like this ever in your entire life.
That is why it is worth what it is worth.
But that's not what they want. They want how much went into the
designer and what was her motivation behind it and blah,
blah, blah. And I get it.
And I'm not saying, but I as a marketer now that doesn't put
you in an easy position because they could be the best product
in the world, but you still got to kind of go through the cut
through the clutter of everything else out there.

(24:34):
Well, and I think to add to that, in today's world, you've
got to deliver that message in under 10 seconds or less because
that's that's the attention thatpeople are going to give you.
So, you know, for us, I think, you know, we really bleed on,
you know, the competition of golf, the competition within the
sport, A lot of our marketing content, it's that guy on the
range at 6:00 AM in blue hour, you know, just grinding and
hitting golf balls and really wanting to get better for some

(24:57):
of our more, you know, muscle back and, and, and players
equipment. And then we take a more light
hearted approach. And, you know, honestly, we try
to be that golf brand that, you know, you want to go play with.
Like we're in your foursome, youknow, and we're having fun and
we're chopping it up. And if you shoot 100, that's OK,
maybe, you know, next week you'll shoot 95.
So we're a little bit of both. And I think, you know, that's

(25:21):
the fun part of the brand is youget to kind of lift the veil a
little bit and just allow peopleto, you know, come in and and be
part of the Mizuno family. If you hit Mizuno golf clubs,
you are part of our family. And you see that from golf
course to golf course, you know,across the country.
And I think you certainly see that at the foundry to the way
that we've again built that withthe consumer in mind.

(25:42):
We've opened it up to any consumer.
You don't have to be a member ofthe Standard club to book a
fitting and come out. You don't have to.
Be the standard club, put a lot of work in it all together.
I mean, the course was gorgeous.I played a couple of months ago
and just beginning to end. You walk in and people that I'd
played with that haven't been there in a long time walked
there like, Oh my God, this looks like a completely new
place. And then you have you're right
at the edge of the range. It's perfect.
Yeah, Now the location of it's great, the partnership is great

(26:04):
and and you know we're just getting started with it so.
And one thing we didn't mention too, at the Foundry, we have a
custom robot arm that actually hits golf balls and baseballs.
So on the R&D side, you know thethe golf product that'll come
from Mizuno for decades to come,a lot of that's going to be
ideated and tested right there in the foundry, which is a cool
piece to have that here right inyour backyard and and again in

(26:25):
Johns Creek, Georgia. So, and then our our baseball
team will do the same thing. Yeah, for.
Baseball, and they're similar sports, right?
Launch angle, all these things, this inertia, all these
different. Well, the robots cool because it
like we say, custom and it literally is like you can
customize that robot swing to, you know, anything a wide
variety of sports. You know, I think there's even a
hand that may smack a volleyballor something and and some other

(26:47):
stuff that's in the works that you know, will come to market
later. But it's not, it's not a stick.
Like this is one thing people don't understand.
And I saw Bridgestone has something similar and they were
showing us the difference. I think it was Tiger and and
Bryson, but they were showing them robots.
One was programmed by each and like Tigers was like straight
and everything. And then Bryson was like, we're
going to go over this roof on a right angle going downward and

(27:08):
the balls were like shooting allover the place.
But there was, there's a reason because the nubs on the ball and
the angles where you hit it and which one, like these are all
parts of the game that are that are meticulous at the higher up
in the level you go. So, you know, again, I just want
to make sure it's not a robot because like robots are cool and
this is a Japanese company. It's a robot because you're
doing R&D for decades down the road.
Yeah. I mean the robot is nothing new

(27:30):
to the industry or new to a golfbrand by any means.
To have it at the foundry to have for you know someone to
book a fitting at the foundry and be able to go and see our
team testing equipment like that's part of the upgraded
premium experience that we offerat the foundry.
I think that part is really cooland most brands aren't offering
anyone behind the. Scenes to look at.
It's very bougie. Yeah, it's a little bit of an

(27:50):
exclusive, you know, peek behind, you know what's to come
for, you know, Mizuno golf. And they might, they might be
testing, you know, sound that day or they might be testing
golf ball that day or who knows?But or you might see our
baseball team out there testing baseball bats or softball bats.
That's cool just to have a Bay dedicated to R and DI think and
then to give consumers a view into that.
I think just speaks to, you know, the fun behind Mizuno

(28:13):
golf. We recently launched behind the
scenes of the PGA show. We've got some more behind the
scenes content coming to our YouTube channel and it's exactly
to do that. It's to showcase that we're a
lean team, you know, everybody is hands on deck at a lot of
time, but we we like to have just as much as fun as as we
work hard so. Yeah, I love it.
I love it. I love for people to know that

(28:34):
piece of of our golf brand. Yeah.
And then you put it on display, right?
And it's like when you go to a agood restaurant, they have the
open kitchen. You feel more like you're a part
of what's going on. And then they shut off the
clothes behind. So Chris, talk a little bit
about the fitting because this is something, and I haven't been
there yet And like the only thing I did do is I had, I took
a couple of swings. Someone's like this is the kind
of driver to get and like you swing like a freaking idiot, get

(28:56):
a stiff shaft. And you know, they, they just
that kind of stuff. They're like your balls going to
always hook to the right. So get it offset a little bit
like that kind of stuff. And I mean, it immensely helped
my game. So talk about how important
fittings are from a technical player standpoint.
And then Brad, maybe you could touch on how important the
fittings are for consumer data and customer acquisition.
And and because I have to imagine it's like most things,
once you fit them and get them confident, they're swing are

(29:17):
pretty hooked for life. So talk a little bit just from
the player standpoint, how important those fittings are and
about what level of golf you should or have to be at.
So you should tell me that you should take seriously.
You know, I, I love that question because it, it builds
on the misconception that you have to be a good golfer to get
fit. I think that's the number one
thing we hear from Mizuno is I'mnot good enough for Mizuno.
And then also I'm not good enough to be a custom fit

(29:37):
Mizuno. That's like taking it a step
further. The crazy thing about a fitting
is if you're the the worst golfer you've ever played, you
have tendencies. They may be bad tendencies, but
you have those tendencies. If you can get a custom fit set
of clubs for you, you are going to understand why the ball went
a direction is because of something you did versus
something the club did. If you're a beginner and you're

(29:59):
hitting big slices, you don't know if that's because the shaft
is too stiff. For shame, over the top.
I released, I cast it. I did this.
Could be the upright, could be the lying you.
Never. Right, exactly.
So there's, to me, it takes one of the massive variables out.
If you know you're working with your equipment as opposed to
against your equipment, it's huge.
And it's got to be a confidence builder too, right?
It's just the psychology of it because you, it's almost like

(30:21):
you removed an excuse. Once that excuse is removed,
like, OK, well, that's gone. I got to hit this ball straight.
Like, yeah. And the second misconception of
it is that a fit club has cost so much more.
You know with Mizuno, one of thebig things we hang our hat on is
that when you get fit for a shaft, a grip, a length, a lion
goal, a loft, whatever that is, almost everything we offer is no
upcharge so we can the cost. You would buy a set right off

(30:44):
the rack at the PGA. Let's take a half a step back,
talk about why those things are important, right?
Let's just assume because we have plenty of golfers, sure,
loft, because you see these different angle lies.
There's so much that goes into clubs nowadays.
Zach, just briefly touch on a little bit of them, the lob, why
these things are important, why people have a sandwich that's a
56 or a 58. Talk about just these, because I
think it's important to cover. I mean getting getting the loft
gapping is huge because you wantto make sure you only are

(31:07):
allowed 14 clubs. You want to make sure each of
those 14 clubs does something unique so you're making.
Sure, you're something about you.
It's not always just distance isany of the sand hitting out of
high grass like usually I'm in, you know, hitting out of the
neighbor's yard if the rock garden if it's you and I'm
playing like one of those things.
But again, so each one, each club is different, but there's
lie angles. There's so much.
The lie angle is basically the the angle between the shaft and

(31:28):
the ground. And if you don't have the right
lie angle dialed in based off ofyour height, your arm length,
your swing plane, all of those, then the ball is not going to
start online. It just isn't.
So, you know, that's, that's onething that's a free every tweak
that we make for you getting theright shaft is critical because
each player loads and unloads a shaft differently.
They need to have different weight, weight requirements.
They have different bending profile requirements.

(31:49):
For us to say that just because we decided this dynamic gold is
the stock shaft in this one, everything else is an upcharge.
You know what, maybe one in 50 players fit that, that fit that
dynamic goal. We want to put a shaft in that
for you to allow you to deliver the head to the ball more
consistently. One of the first things I
realized about hitting the ball straight for me was when I
followed all all the way throughand felt that shaft snap back

(32:11):
when I hit it all the way in theback was when I hit the ball
straight, whether it was the follow through was off or
something like that. But that stiff shaft gave me
that tactile feel to be able to feel that a lot more.
And I don't it could, I could completely have made that up in
my head, but that placebo effecthas worked so well.
They're like sticking with it, like, you know what I mean?
It's all about timing. I mean, the shaft is big, they
joke. It's the engine of the club.
It's the whip that connects the grip to the head.

(32:32):
You know, if you are timing thatwhip properly, you're
recognizing the extra force and the extra power that comes from
that. If you're not and that shaft
isn't loading enough or it's unloading too quickly, that ball
is going to go anywhere and you're not going to have maximum
power to the ball. So it's all about getting the
one that fits you properly. If you had to pick one club, OK,
this is complete hypothetical. OK, to get fit on when you play

(32:54):
golf, which club should you get fit for you custom.
Let's say you let's say you're on a budget, right?
You got a set of clubs and you have 300 bucks, 400 bucks and
you want to go out sick up to 600 for a driver.
But what club would be the best to have it completely fit to
you? I mean, I'm going to say just
from a golfer's point of view, if your putter doesn't fit you,
then I mean putters are more than half your strokes.

(33:14):
You know, honestly, if your putter isn't working for you,
then you are not going to score well.
So. So to me, putter is the number
one. Like if you.
And it's so funny because most people buy a putter by walking
in and if I happen to make 3 putts on this one, I'm going to
walk out with it. Yeah, that is absolutely.
But but I understand like from asomeone who even if thinking
about it as an engineer, that's the least moving parts of

(33:36):
anything. You're hitting it the lightest.
It's the squarest, there's no angles.
So your brain wonders, why the hell would I need to get fitted
for a putter? Well, The funny thing is, in
something in another club, you can make compensations to
overcome something that's not working.
For example, if the club is too upright, then you know what, you
could swing a little bit more, you know, inside hit.
Your left foot, your front foot,back a little bit on an angle to
offset. With the putter, because

(33:57):
everything is so every movement is so small, every movement is
so compact and concise. You know the a pendulum is a
pendulum and if your pendulum isn't starting it online, that's
problem. So to me and you.
Also, if you're overcompensatingfor that with a putter, you
develop bad habits. And that's one of the things I
learned. Like I just got to a point where
I was kind of winging it and I was getting some in, but there

(34:18):
was no consistency to whatever. And it's just such a game that
requires consistency and. That's probably the least fit
club in the bag, honestly, and it's the one that should be the
most fit club in the bag. Yeah, yeah, I got some work to
do, I think. But my, my old adage was pretty
much I'm going to learn with the, the, the bad stuff until I
get good enough and then I'll goget the good stuff, which is
probably backwards. But that being said, look, I
play three times every six months.

(34:39):
Maybe like it's just time doesn't permit it, right?
Unfortunately, I have to say no a lot more.
We sponsor a lot of tournaments.I've had a lot of opportunities.
The other side of this is because of the way I started
playing golf. I started backwards.
I started on Eastlake like I started on Wade Hampton, like
you're started in Atlanta. And then all of a sudden I go
with my dad, who is like one of those like, yeah, I don't care
where we play, we just got to get out.
And I'm like, what is it? This looks like a playground.

(35:00):
I'm like, are those rocks on themiddle of the course?
And then all of a sudden you're like you, you shoot like a 90
and you think you're the best golfer in the world because it's
an open field. Like there's no false fronts in
these courses, you know what I mean?
So yeah, you look it, it's fascinating.
We're gonna get back, we're gonna talk a little bit more
about the marketing. We're gonna talk about what a
foundry experience is, is like when you walk in there for
everybody just 'cause I recommend everyone doing it.

(35:20):
So you've been listening to the marketing.
Mad Men on Extra 106 Three and we will be right back.
Now back to the Marketing Mad Men on Extra 106.3 FM Welcome
back to the Marketing Mad Men onExtra 106 three.
Nick Constantino here fitting upour converse, finishing up our
conversation with Brad and Chrisof Mizuno.

(35:43):
So Brad, First off, so we don't have to do this at the end, talk
about how people find you. Talk about find the Foundry,
talk about how find your YouTube.
Give them all the information sothey come get closer to you
guys. Yeah, on Meta Platforms.
You can find us at Mizuno Golf North America on YouTube, Mizuno
Golf, our website ismizunogolf.com and most
recently we launchedmizunofoundry.com for
everything foundry related book and fittings at the foundry.

(36:05):
Perfect. You set me up perfectly.
So talk about the Foundry. So talk about I make a
reservation. I come in, I don't know what to
expect. I just know that I am at the
time in my life where I really want to get serious about golf
and I was told I got to play Mizunos.
Talk about what that experience is like for me when I walk in.
Yeah. I mean, I think it's is it's an
upgraded premium fitting experience.
And then I think in, you know, true Mizuno fashion, we've,

(36:26):
we've added value to that where #1 it's open to anyone.
It's, it's available by appointment only, but anyone can
go to mizunofoundry.com and, andmake an appointment, whether you
want an iron fitting, a full bagfitting, or we're going to offer
some specialized packages that, you know, you and, and your golf
buddies can make a weekend out of it.
So upon arrival, you know, you come through the standard club

(36:49):
pro shop and we talked about that earlier.
They've they've done some massive renovation and, and
modernized not only the facilities, but the golf course
out there. And then, yeah, you're picked up
in a Mizuno golf cart and you'rebrought to the foundry where,
you know, once you step in, you know, to your right, we have a
putt and green with Sam putt laband putt view.

(37:09):
And that's Chris was talking about dialing in your putter
earlier. It's that's exactly where we
would fit you for your putter. There's sort of a, a retail wall
or a merch area that has foundryexclusive apparel, bourbon
glasses, you know, anything and everything golf related.
And then you make your way into the Swing DNA lab.
And Swing DNA is special to us because when you come get fit

(37:31):
with Mizuno, and this is anywhere, you know, you're going
to grab a club that has a piece of hardware clamped on it,
typically A7 iron. The hardware is referred to as
the shaft optimizer, but it is measuring I think over 15 data
points and we relay like the most important eight to you.

(37:51):
But you take 3 swings with that shaft optimizer and that's how
we know where to start your fitting.
Got it. So instead of beating, you know,
30 to 40 balls to go, OK, here'swhere we need to start making
it. Just starting with a baseline.
You take 3 swings, we know it's shaft that you're best fit for
really and you're. Probably measuring the things
that don't change psychologically when you go
well. Chris touched on with loft angle

(38:12):
and line angle. Are you compressing the ball?
You're not changing height everytime you.
Swing. No, it's, it's measuring all
those data points and then that's where we're starting your
fitting. So we are 75% of the way there
and you've only taken 3 swings and that makes the experience
better at the foundry and reallyanywhere that you get a Mizuno
golf fitting because now you're not worn out.
You're, you're ready to hit, youknow, you're loose, you ready to

(38:33):
hit more golf balls and you're ready to try maybe two or three
different shafts or two or threedifferent club heads.
And our professional fitters aregoing to put you in, you know,
whatever is getting you, you know, the most distance, the
most accuracy, whatever, whatever you're looking for.
So when it comes to a custom fitting experience, you get that
with any Mizuno fitting. But at the Foundry, again, it's
upgraded because of the facilityyou're at.

(38:54):
And then afterward, you know, sit back in the lounge, have a
cocktail. We've got a candy bar in there
if you got a sweet tooth. We have a full build shop in the
back. So potentially you could get
fit, go have lunch at the standard club, come back an hour
and a half, two hours later and pick up your set.
That's really cool. So there's a, there's a full
build shop right there on site and.
Then they got the range right there.

(39:15):
You can go ahead. To the range is right there and
then you know, we talked about the Nest which is the the Bay
that's dedicated R&D with a custom robot arm, which we allow
you to step in there and kind ofview what our R&D team is doing.
And again, it may be golf, it may be baseball, maybe another
division, it's out there workingwith the robot arm.
But you, you get a look inside Mizuno, USA, you know, when you

(39:39):
visit the foundry and I think that's what's really cool.
And then from a golf standpoint,you get the specialized fitting
that we talked about. And then to your point, you
know, pop out, play the standardclub, you know, visit and hang
in some of their amenities and just and really just, you know,
have a have a, an awesome day atthe golf course.
Love it. So we didn't touch on this.
So why Atlanta? Why the founders in Atlanta?

(40:00):
The focus in Atlanta. I mean, I know why but.
I mean, we're headquartered in Atlanta.
Yeah, Mizuno USA is headquartered in Atlanta.
We're we're certainly one of thefew, maybe the only East Coast
golf brand. A lot of our competitors are way
out. West buy local Yeah, buy buy
from people here. They're so impacting.
This economy, it's super important.
I'm not kidding. We wanted to provide this
experience a Atlanta's got one of the biggest airports, so it's

(40:20):
easy for anybody in the. Country and this is a golf town
man. I don't care what anybody says.
I mean I know 3 year olds that are out there playing more golf
than I am. Like it's crazy.
Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's easy to
land at the Atlanta airport and be at the foundry within an hour
and a half barring you don't hitAtlanta traffic.
Now that's something that we won't touch on, but I was going
to. Say without traffic you'd be
there an. Hour.
It's definitely it's a thing, but we wanted it in our

(40:40):
backyard, man. We are 20 minutes from our
corporate office. So it it's easy for the golf
group to pack up and go over there for the afternoon and and
test or do whatever we need to do.
It's easy for the baseball and team sports crew to do the same
thing, but it's easy for everybody just to shoot over
there. We actually had an employee day
shortly after the grand opening where every employee, you know,
the accounting folks were in there taking swings and and

(41:02):
learning their swing DNA and stuff like that too.
I'm almost. Terrified.
To see mine, you know, it's, it's in our backyard and it
allows us again to focus on thatconsumer experience, but it
allows us to take advantage of the facility from, you know, a
Mizuno. And doesn't a person tell me how
bad my swing is? Or is it a robot?
I just need to know because if Idon't want to get AI, don't want
to have a robot back. Look, you suck.
There's no other way to say this.

(41:23):
Well, wherever the ball goes is going to tell you how how good
or bad your swing is. Our fitters are never going to
tell you it's a bad swing, but they will work to improve it.
OK, well, I know. One other thing I love about us
just being local in Atlanta also, if you're driving up 85,
when you get to the Chateau Elanexit, look over to the right and
you can see the big Mizuno run bird over to the right.
All of our clubs are built in the US, You know, that's one

(41:44):
thing that we love is, is, is being local.
We're not, you know, buying clubs assembled else so.
We're not going to get, we're not going to get into the tariff
conversation. That's another way.
That's another, that's another the conversation that will
derail this whole thing and it could change within 6 minutes.
So, so but but Speaking of. We'll say our our prices have
stayed the same. There it is.
We had to get it in there. There's the marketing pitch.
So talk real, real fast, Chris. Talk about the future of Mizuno.

(42:05):
We got about 3-4 minutes left. Talk about the future.
Talk about this seems like a bigpoint of culmination for you
guys where all the R&D, everything you've put toward now
manifests itself moving forward.So talk about it.
Talk about what what we what we have in store.
Yeah, it really is a big point for us where I think this is
where you're going to start to see Mizuno become.
I wouldn't say unrecognizable from where we are, but a little

(42:25):
bit different than what we have been building upon the the
foundation that we've established with our forging
process in our iron. Brad mentioned a few minutes ago
about the biggest launch we've ever had in this past January.
That really is speaking a lot into other categories, balls,
putters, wedges, going into those.
With Mizuno, I think we are at apoint where the the the golfer

(42:49):
now trusts us. And I think we've established
that trust through being very consistent.
You mentioned that word, Yeah, Tizen.
Tizen means consistent improvement.
And that's something that we've always been doing.
We're building. You guys didn't think that I was
going to pull that one out. So you're going to see that
continue, and that's why we've built that trust in irons.

(43:10):
And with that, that same that same philosophy goes into
everything we do. So now you're starting to see it
in more categories. I can't wait for everyone to see
some of the wood stuff we've gotcoming on.
There's some really cool, interesting stories.
Again, that's a little bit of a sneak preview of sort of what
you'll see in the future, but something unrecognizable in a
category where people traditionally don't think of
Mizuno. Yeah, we've got some really cool

(43:31):
interesting. Stuff and and and I've learned
so I played so long without a three word just wasn't happening
for me right. And then all of a sudden you
start in your 3 when you realizehow important of a club it is to
have in a bag. So I think all important things,
what I really like is that from the short time that I've known
you guys is that you're nimble. So a lot of the bureaucracy with
a lot of these other companies that become these mega
behemoths, right? Like you're they're almost

(43:51):
putting lines out because they feel they have to every year.
The thought process is not goinginto it because like you can't
just rename a club #2 and think it's a brand new club.
Like it, it doesn't have the thought process.
So I think though, if the fact that you are steeped in that
tradition, but I also think it'sreally important what we talked
about Brad, about connecting with the consumer and being fun
and not being stuffy because even the name the foundry is

(44:12):
kind of freaking scary, right? Like what are you making swords?
Like what are we doing here? So I think I think the the line
to walk is a really cool one, But I think you guys have done a
good job and your lack of layersprobably helps that because you
have such a direct relationship with your consumers.
So I'm excited to see you in person.
We'll get up there, we'll come check it out.
I will be bringing a scratch golfer with me that makes me
look really stupid when I play. Actually, that's all.

(44:35):
I his five year old makes me look stupid when I play because
he's played 200 rounds already. He's 5 S more rounds than I have
by triple. So, but I appreciate you guys
coming out. Check out Mizuno by local here
in Georgia. I can't tell you how important
that is, especially moving forward in this world.
You've been listening to the Marketing Man and an extra 106
three and we will catch you nextweek.

(44:56):
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(45:17):
for only during Marco's Pepperoni Fest.
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See participating source for details.