188. How Public Spaces & Art Festivals Are Changing Atlanta

Atlanta is evolving, and public spaces are more important than ever. In this episode, Nick Constantino talks with Randall Fox about: ✅ How art festivals bring communities together ✅ The growth of Atlanta & the role of local events ✅ The challenges facing artists in a digital world ✅ Why AI is impacting creativity & artistic expression 🎙️ Tune in now & learn how public spaces shape culture! Key Takeaways: • Public spaces create a stronger sense of community and support local artists. • Atlanta’s rapid growth is reshaping neighborhoods and opening opportunities for creative hubs. • Art festivals offer artists a platform to make a living in a challenging economic climate. • AI & automation are disrupting the creative space, forcing artists to adapt. • Curation matters—matching artists to the right audience ensures festival success. #MarketingMadmen #PublicSpaces #AtlantaArts #CommunityEvents #ArtFestivals #SupportLocalArtists #AtlantaGrowth #AIandCreativity #UrbanDevelopment

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Episode Transcript

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They say marketing is a madman'sgame, so now we turned it over
to the Marketing Madman with Nick Constantino and Trip Joe on
Extra One O 6 Three FM. Welcome to the marketing Mad

(00:43):
Men. Nick Constantino here, and I
have with me Randall Fox, who isself admittedly soft spoken.
So this is going to be interesting because I scream and
yell at everything I do. But we have a we have an
interesting show today. We're going to talk about the
arts, apparently we're going to talk about DC and being a trauma
nurse also, which is an interesting place and an
interesting time to do it. So we got a lot to do.

(01:03):
So let's hit it. So we're going to skip, we're
going to, we're going to start in the beginning.
So talk a little about we we were in DC at the same time.
DC is an interesting place. I think you probably saw the
gentrification is the nicest word to say it and you were in
an area that was being gentrified.
Gentrified. I like to think about
revitalization. I mean, DC completely changed.
We lived almost overnight. Almost overnight.
I mean, I lived up on Capitol Hill, up by Eastern Market.

(01:26):
Yep. It was a place that you did not
walk at night. Yep.
And in fact, you were told not to walk.
Now, you didn't walk for your own safety.
Like the cops would be like, turn away.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I remember one time we were sitting out and you heard
gunshots. You're like, what are you doing
out in the yard? Get inside.
But DC completely, completely changed from Capitol Hill all
the way down to the the Wharf, down to the river.
It was amazing. For sure.
And even up Mount Vernon, that area was another one you didn't

(01:47):
walk down and you had no Shaw. The Shaw District down 9th St.
was like it was Howard University and there was and
then all of a sudden that is. Bumping now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't go there, but I mean,
I mean, I was there when it was like right before the recession.
Yeah. So you were looking to buy a
place and you're like, oh, you want 200,000 for it?
I'll give you 300,000 for it. I remember it was just crazy
when the market was there and itjust continued to grow.

(02:10):
It's really exciting to see. Yeah, so I went to University of
Maryland College Park, which forthose that don't know, is like 3
miles from the border of DC and now it's changed, but it was the
part of DC you did not want to be in the PG county.
Southeast DC was there in DC like still to this day it's got
a much in the high. I couldn't believe what happened
when I went their last. But you know, I think that that
white flight of the 80s took a really long toll on DC New York

(02:33):
star their their real revitalization efforts earlier
and then DC went on it. And because the government had
gotten so big, it was just like wildfire.
And my favorite thing of DC, though, had to be the 4:00 PM on
Thursday happy hour rush where everyone came with their badges
from Capitol Hill. Like it was an honor to be a
freaking intern for one of thesestate senators.
And they would honestly the why I love it so much is they

(02:55):
partied so hard I could not believe it.
My guys it is 3:00 PM you are 6 in the wind screaming and
dancing and the streets are muchbetter aligned with the with the
metro. So you can start at one place,
walk straight up 14th and have like 20 drinks at different
places. But the thing about it is, is
you would see Congressman's House of Representatives, you
would see all of them out there having a beer.

(03:16):
That changed. Not anymore, but yes, that was
about the end of that era. I think COVID probably forced it
even more, but like, it was justbecause, you know, the social
media was the rise of social media.
You don't want to be caught deadwith the wrong person, right?
The last thing you need is a super liberal sitting next to
someone with a Make America Great hat where the optics could
just be spun a million ways. And then it's a damn shame.

(03:36):
But so you were a trauma. Nurse.
Yeah, I worked at Washington Hospital Center, so I was head
of trauma, flight medic. I did that for 20 years.
Wow, Loved it. Absolutely.
Was a complete passion of mine. OK, my ex and I moved to down to
Atlanta, OK and did a career change from there.
OK, so flight medic. So talk a little bit about that.
We just kind of glossed over it.Flight medic.

(03:57):
So you know, the person who flies into the accidents when
pick somebody up and needs to transport him back to the
hospital. Yeah.
So that's what I did. Helicopter, Helicopter and fixed
wing. So rotor wing and flex wing,
right of wing. It's, you know, like, again, we
would fly into the accidents. It was a pickup.
Stabilize them. Yeah.
Get them to the hospital. And trauma at that point, if
that's happening, trauma is an understatement.
No, I mean, it was really about stabilize them, like really

(04:19):
getting them there. But these are people who need to
be transported quickly. Got it.
Or that you were transporting. Like Washington Hospital Center
is a level 1 trauma center. So it was, you know, depending
upon the facility they were going to, maybe it was a burn
unit. They had a particular unit.
That's where we'd take them. Yeah.
I also did fixed wing and that was long torn transport so that
would say. Hospital with a specialty or

(04:40):
something like that where they had to get somewhere.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
But it was a great passion. I really love doing it and I've
kept my license. I've, I currently do like
natural disasters. I've been to Haiti.
I do like hurricanes and things like that.
If you have to, if someone needsto go there for 30 days, I can
hang out and do that and then come, come back to work.
But I do. Yeah, and like, look, this is

(05:01):
not a political statement. This is a human being statement.
Haiti needs freaking help. They got demolished like time
after time and, and again, a lotof this is the, the way the
politics work. They're not beneficial to the
people. But I mean between earthquakes
and and hurricanes, they got demolished.
Well, I mean, Haiti, Turkey, youknow, I'm working, you're
working in a war zone. You know, you're working

(05:21):
underneath the tent. You're working in subpar
conditions. Yeah.
But you know, most people aren'tgoing to go work in those
conditions or have the the freedom of flexibility to go
spend thirty 6090 days to do that.
Yeah. And I got.
Your triage, like there's everywhere you pick and it's a
priority and you can't be right.You can't be wrong, but you got
to act. Quick, got to act quick, you got
to think quick and you got to belevel headed.
Yeah, my dad was the CEO of Elmhurst Hospital in Queens.

(05:42):
Elmhurst Hospital was a Level 1 trauma center.
It was one of the only ones in the country that to this day
will still take. Well, it doesn't matter if
you're illegal immigrant, doesn't matter if you have
insurance. They take everybody, which is
still unheard of these days. Those trauma centers exist
because it serves the community in which people serve.
And if you've ever been to DC and been around the hospital,
the area of the people they serve are.
It's not what you're expecting by being in Falls Church.

(06:02):
Let's leave it at that. Absolutely, Absolutely you.
Know, but I loved what I did, you know, and I was lucky to be
able to do it. Yeah, that's good for you.
So let's Fast forward. So that that obviously provided
you with a good career. You obviously was able were able
to handle adversity. So let's Fast forward.
So you moved to Atlanta and we are here to talk about the
Atlanta Foundation for Public Spaces.
So DC does a really good job of public spaces on every quarter.

(06:26):
And if you see in DC, there's food kitchen serving people.
They are really parts of that moving community and they're
wonderful places and statues andhistory.
And it does so well at that. You know, it's the nation's
capital. It's expected to be.
But even talking like the, the not paths that people don't walk
are still pretty covered with spaces.
It looks more like a European city.
So if you've been to any European city, really it's it's

(06:47):
public squares everywhere where everyone gets together.
That's just where it happened. So talk about when you got to
Atlanta. What surprised do the most and
made you want to get into something like this?
Well, I'm glad you said that because that's our name is based
on that. Public spaces.
It was about utilizing public spaces, utilizing places that
you wouldn't typically think of to bring people together.
Streets, parks, marketplaces. So what we did is we, I took

(07:10):
something I loved, which was Eastern Market, world's nation's
oldest farmers market, spent every weekend there, came to
came to Atlanta. It didn't exist.
So he said, you know what, I want a career change.
I want to change some things up and I, I said, can I do this?
So we started with the Chastain Park Arts Festival.
I lived in Chastain and we we started an arts festival and I

(07:33):
said, you know, if I have 75 artists and I can bring the the
people together, then let's do it.
Well, we had 100 and I think 125artists.
So we doubled and the antennas was off the chain.
That's a good area to start, right, because you're reaching
the aristocrats of the Chastain area.
But just I'm saying people that whether they felt the need for
art, that's a place where if someone's friend go, they're

(07:53):
going to go and they're going to, they're going to be
involved. I'll, I'll tell you why.
We, I live in the neighborhood. I live in the neighborhood and
the the the and one of the reasons why we exist is the fact
is that metro Atlanta has what, 5 boroughs, 5 sections?
Yep. People that live in metro are
say, Marietta, for instance, don't typically want to go to
midtown. Yep, people who live in Midtown
don't typically want to go to Chester.
They'll go for a concert, they maybe hop on the train once in

(08:13):
there, let's go to the airport, but other than that, they're
staying in their little. Community, exactly.
So living in the neighborhood, they said, hey, we want
something like this up in our neighborhood.
Yeah. And that's one of the things I
like about metro Atlanta is we have all these different
pockets. Virginia Highlands is different
than for sure. Even Northroot Hills, which is
right next to each other, the caters right there, completely
different world. Exactly.
So that's how we that's the namepublic spaces.

(08:34):
That's how it came together and that's how we came together as a
group. Yeah, so again, broad stroke,
right, Public spaces can mean a lot of things to a lot of
people. But I think immediately, my
mother was born in Florence. I spent a lot of time in Europe
and there's a public space, there's a square everywhere.
And I feel like one of the things as Americans like it made
it like look when I when I was young, because those public
spaces didn't exist, me and my buddies were always trying to

(08:56):
find places to hang out like themall or.
Something like that. It was all centered around
capitalism, as opposed to Europe, where all ages would be
sitting in a park playing chess and just kind of sitting out
well. But you hit the nail ahead
earlier when you said you talkedabout DC, New York and Europe.
Everybody walks. Yeah, we all walk.
You walked everywhere you went. You were out in public spaces.
You walked. You took a cab or you took a
bus. Yeah, here we drive.

(09:18):
Yeah. But we still like to get out.
The one thing that we do on the weekends is we like to get out
and we like to be amongst other.People, yeah, so the beltline is
what it is. I mean, right, because you're
driving everywhere when you get on that beltline, you can walk
place to place people go for hours.
So and again, that's changed, right?
So you've been you said you moved when?
When did you move 90? We lived here in 2000, I think
I've been here 20 years 2. 1000,so, so wonderful.

(09:38):
So let's obviously you were in DC, we talked about monumental
change, but Atlanta probably wasa decade behind when it started.
But talk about what you've seen in Atlanta.
Talk about the change you've seen here.
The the thing about Atlanta is it continues to grow yeah.
I think it's like what number six in the housing market now.
I mean it's it's constantly growing.
I was looking at the stats the other day.
There's almost 7 million people that live here.

(10:01):
The. And we passed some of those
bigger hubs. We passed DC, we passed Philly.
And population size, I mean, this is one of the six or seven,
depending on who you read, largest metro area in the
country. Well, the population went up by
almost 2% last year. Yeah.
So, you know, it's constantly growing and people, and The
thing is people like to get out.So again, we, you know, full
circle, it's constantly growing again.
I was lucky to live in Chastain.I've moved over to the Oak Grove

(10:23):
area. That area is completely
changing. And it's it's nice to see that
we are really becoming a city again.
Yeah. Everyone's coming in in town.
Yeah. Yeah, which is bucking the trend
in a lot of cities. They're they're COVID really
forced a lot of people because they didn't have to come to the
city to work to leave those cities again.
So it is nice to see it. And I don't live far.
I live by North Lake, so I'm still in town.

(10:45):
I got the best of both worlds. We were able, we bought during
COVID when everyone said we werecrazy.
But somehow I found a nice big house on 1/2 acre with trees
that are 100 years old. So it feels like you're in the
middle of the woods. But I'm 6 miles from downtown so
I get to see the best of all worlds.
I'm not far from you, I'm actually on.
Oh, I'm right there. Yeah.
I love, I love Cravy. Right by Lakeside, so I'm right.

(11:07):
There. So you see even how that
neighborhood's just changed in the last few years.
It's, you know, it, those areas are really hard because you want
change because like, look, the shopping centers are run down.
But what happened at Claremont is a great example in 85.
I mean, they gutted everything. And what do they put a gigantic
apartment complex with a chain restaurant?
Like that's that's, that's a little depressing also.

(11:27):
I like it 'cause you gotta remember what was there.
Yeah. Oh, I know.
I'm asking. My kids go to school at the
Annunciation Day school at Immaculate, Immaculate Heart of
Mary. I pass it every.
Day, every day. So right across the street.
All of that's coming down as well, and it's gonna be a carbon
copy. Yeah, You know, I probably liked
it cause Popeyes was there and Igot to stop and get a chicken
sandwich every once in a while. That might be it.
I'm alright. I'm with you on that 10.
You're talking about the post office, which was the worst post

(11:48):
office in the world. I love that post office, but but
but bench warmers, they're talking about that stuff, which
it it desperately needed change.I just think like I what they
did in Tocco Hills is a good example.
It's a nice place. It's got good stores.
It needed the change, but putting those mega apartments up
on such a big crowded intersection is going to screw a
lot of people's days up. Oh, I mean, I avoid the

(12:08):
intersection, you know, coming down off that exit, you
completely avoid it and but lookat the growth Shallowford and
Briarcliff, what's going on there?
I mean, it's huge. But The thing is, Atlanta is
growing, yes, it's not slowing down.
Atlanta is continuing growing and people are coming in town.
Yeah, which makes public spaces that much more important and we
will get to that. So you've been listening to the
marketing admin on Extra 106 Three and we'll be right back.

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(14:09):
Men on Extra One O 6 Three FM. Welcome back to the marketing
Mad Men on Extra one O 6 three. Nick Constantino here with
Randall Fox Atlanta Foundation for Public Spaces.
And I think we did a good job setting up the gentrification,
setting up why these public spaces need to exist.
So let's get into the nuance of it.
You guys got a lot of different festivals and events and stuff

(14:29):
going on. So to give us a 30,000 foot view
of some of the different things and how you spread from that one
in Chastain to so many differentones.
Well, I think we've got about 18, if I'm not correct, 18.
And what we do is we really concentrate on the different
demographics in the different neighborhoods.
We talked about earlier. We're down in Olmsted Linear
parks, which is kind of the Midtown area where Piedmont

(14:51):
Park, which is a great park to be in.
We're kind of in different pockets because what we've
learned is being in Atlanta, everyone likes to stay, kind of
stay in their pocket. So that has worked well for us.
And, and we find that with that,the neighborhoods and the
communities come in and they actually kind of get to own that
event that's about them. And I would imagine if they're
like, wait a second, there's no way Chastain had more people

(15:14):
than we did. We got to be there.
And it becomes almost like a little competitive.
Well, it is, it is and it that'swhy it's a Chastain Park Arts
Festival. You know, you can't hold the
Chastain Park Arts Festival in in Marietta.
So the neighborhoods really own,They really support them, and
it's about community and it's about using the spaces that are
out there. Chastain Park is a perfect

(15:34):
example. It's the largest park in metro
Atlanta. Yeah.
It's larger than Piedmont Park. It's a pretty park, too.
One of the parks that we use is they almost said linear Park,
which is over off of Ponce de Leon.
Yeah. Those are large, ginormous
parks. Yeah.
And that are underutilized. Yeah.
So we, yeah, Chastain is utilized, but Homestead Park is
underutilized. It's utilized NYO, NYO kids.

(15:55):
And there's those part, those big playgrounds and it's busy
when you go there. It's busy and my space that's
unutilized to be. Right.
But, and, and the park, the Conservancy has done an amazing
job revitalizing and updating that park.
Rosa has done a great job just really updating it.
The park looks amazing. I was there just the other day
and it looks amazing. Yeah.
But what we do is we find, you know, different parks and

(16:16):
different areas that we feel that, you know, kind of meets
who we are as a company and as agroup and also meets how the
arts that we work represent. Yeah.
So what what are some of the newer ones?
So we obviously the older neighborhoods probably in town,
but start getting to some of thethe more suburban or spreading
out the city further. What are the most recent ones
that you started? Recent ones, Roswell so and

(16:36):
Roswell, as a matter of fact, this this weekend, so come out
to Roswell. Roswell is at City Hall and that
was interesting. That was right in front of City
Hall. They have a great park there and
a park that was never used. Yeah, we're at Duluth, which is
out in the the town green again,right in front of the City Hall.
So parks that weren't typically are spaces that weren't

(16:59):
typically used. I remember when we I met with
Chris Ward with the city at Roswell, we were looking at
different areas and, and she said, hey, what about this area?
We've never done anything here and it's an most unheard of
well, and now it's one of our biggest events.
We'll have a. 150 yards there this weekend.
I love it. And I think that's another thing
that DC did a really good job ofis every time that there was a
train stop, this little pocket city grew around it, which was a

(17:21):
public square, a public space right right around the train
station. There were these nice areas
where people got together. And that's like, you know, New
York too. Even where my parents live in
Long Island, people don't realize it's the Long Island
Railroad has 200 plus stops. And at every stop on the
railroad, there's this little center that built around it
because in the 1900s when they were building them, everyone had
to go into Manhattan. So that's why they existed.
So you got to lean into public transit.

(17:42):
And it's a shame that we have not done a good job of it.
But that's another part where you talk about people will have
to, you know, that's how they get around in DC.
They take the train. So they hop from pocket to
pocket in one minute, one stop over.
Well, Bryant Park, the holiday markets in Bryant Park.
New York are a perfect example at Columbus Square, I mean,
they're huge market places around the metro, spots around
the spots. So what we've done is we've
found parks and areas that we are conducive for what we're

(18:04):
doing, that you can spend the afternoon, that you can enjoy
the walk and utilize the space. So all right, so let's get into
the nitty gritty of it. So talk about how the company's
set up. Talk about is it just you?
Do you have employees? Talk about we have artists
coming in? Are we talking this is
not-for-profit for communities? Talk a little bit about the
makeup of the company. The company is myself.
It was founded by myself, but I do have a staff.

(18:25):
I've got a staff about 12. We're staff completely staff
driven, which makes us unique inthe sense that we don't have
volunteers, but because of that we're able to run efficiently.
Yeah, for sure. Artists we've got anywhere from.
We've got a database of like 15,000 artists that we work
with, but our shows typically have anywhere from 150 to 250
artists. We have shows on a regular

(18:46):
basis, but again, that we're popping around.
So for the month of May, I've got a show every weekend.
This weekend I'll be in Roswell.Next weekend I'll be Chastain
weekend after that I'll be in Duluth.
Weekend after that I'll be in Old 4th Ward.
So we're popping around the the Metro land market and this
allows the artist to basically have a job, yeah, and create an

(19:06):
income, yeah. And hit different pockets of the
of metro Atlanta. Yeah, and when I think art, the
word that comes to mind is curation.
So I'm sure as you do these shows, you learn about which
artists to put with each other, how to which communities.
Like what? I mean, I'm sure like you said,
Atlanta changes so quickly. But I think in in marketing as a
whole, this is the hottest topicright now, right?
We feel obliged to just throw content out there and people are

(19:27):
not curating content. So do you become like the
curator? Do you feel like you're in a
museum kind of curating who's where and setting people up?
Yes, absolutely. Because.
Different neighborhoods will communicate or work better for
different artists. So and that's that's something
they don't have like a bio and you read a bio, That's something
you have instinct from working with these people over time and
having the best practices to seethis stuff.

(19:48):
Well, we're actually looking at their work.
So we're during their work, theysend in slides and we look at
their booths on. So you know, there's some
neighborhoods if your booth is not spot on and perfect, they're
going to walk right past you. Whereas other spaces, if it's
more bohemian and cool, they're you're going to, that's what
you're going to. Depending on the market,
bohemian cool probably works better in city than it does in
Woodstock, right? There's probably places and ways

(20:09):
to curate that way. OK, right.
That's cool though. So when we talk about artists,
art is probably the most vague, broad word the world has ever
seen. So tell me, give us an idea of
some of these booths that are set up.
Are we all doing paintings? Are we?
Are people bringing food? What do we have?
What do you have art wise? We like to say we have something
for everyone, OK, so we've got painters, we've got Potters,
we've got photographers, we got on jewelry makers.

(20:29):
But then the unique thing about that is if I have 25 painters,
everyone's going to be different.
If I've got 10 Potters, everyone's going to be
different. So one of the things that I
pride myself on is the fact is that we have something for
everybody. The thing about the arts
festival is people want to get out.
They want to enjoy their time. And frankly, they may want to

(20:50):
buy something for sure. So I've got art regardlessly.
But if you want a $10,000 painting, you'll find it.
But if you want something, you know, for $25, you'll find it.
Nobody wants to go to an art show where they can't afford
anything. Yeah, for sure.
They want to find something there, out there.
It's let's pick up something funfor sure.
If it's not for ourselves, maybefor a friend or family member.
And that's one of the things I pride myself on is that that's

(21:10):
exactly what we have. Yeah, you're not looking for the
investor people who looking for art to think they think is going
to make money over people who itstrikes them emotionally and
they buy it. Emotionally is exactly it.
You know, you're not buying that.
That painting, that painting, it's going to go over the sofa.
Yeah. And trust me, I've got some of
those artists who are amazing. You know, you're talking
$15,000, $10,000 pieces of artwork, but the artists are the

(21:33):
the consumer. It's coming back on.
They're singing on Saturday, they're coming back on Sunday to
make the investment. Yeah, I've got some great
friends, Mike and Melanie, who are amazing artists, but, and
they make a fantastic living of what they're doing and they're
curated pieces. But I've also got other friends.
Lexi, who's a jeweler, she does.Riley's got a piece for jewelry.
And Riley's young. She's 21 years old, but she's

(21:54):
able to make a living as a jeweler.
Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's, it's funny.
I'm just thinking out loud. I feel like that's something
that's missing from corporate America, like just, you know.
I would love. You know, at Salomon Brothers,
to be able to put some local artists like that jewelry in the
shelf and sell it for them because I have people coming in
for jewelry all the time. It's not going to compete with
me to have somebody with local stuff.
There's ways to lead into the local ones in the community.

(22:15):
And I think, look, I don't want to get too political here with
tariffs, but but the setup of this country now is to start
trying to make our own stuff. And we're acting like it's not
happening, but it's happening. There are artisans everywhere
that are making things. Everything doesn't come via
Amazon. We're just so pre trained that
we have to get the best price that we're looking these places.
If you know where to look, you can find something.
Always. I Remember Me and my wife

(22:37):
whenever we went abroad. And look, I'm not some global
Trevor, but I've been Bali and Lima and I've been to South
Africa. Every time we went somewhere, we
would go to a local market, we would find one piece, my wife
would pick it and then she wouldleave.
So I could beat the crap out of the guy on price, the guy or gal
on price and get it because I like the haggling part of it,
right? Like yes, I'm prepared to walk
away because this money is just right in my pocket.

(22:59):
I'm buying something. Is it from you or this guy?
And you're like OK, it is 100th the price.
But that being said, it connected emotionally so that's
why I bought it. No, no, I just got back from a
trip from Paris, and it was the same thing.
I knew. I knew I was bringing something
home that represented that trip,but it was how much I was going
to spend. And what did it represent?
Yeah. And that's like, again, what
we're about, it's, you know, my Chastain Parks Festival's on

(23:21):
Mother's Day and you know, they're rather picking something
up for mom. Love it, love it.
My Chastain Fall Arts Festival, you know, we talk.
I got spring and fall, you know,there.
I know for that particular show in the fall, they're looking to
get their houses ready for the holidays.
That's how we curate the shows. Yeah, I love it.
And again, I think that they're this stuff exists.
I think it's it's been not been curated and and look, it brings

(23:42):
to a good point. So unfortunately, watching the
grander scheme of of of businessand everything, it seems like
when when we talk about where money is being cut, it's from
the arts and humanities, it's from DEI.
You just see it. It's not a political statement.
You see it happening. So how do you now all of a
sudden you've built this business, you've built this
community. You you have access, you have

(24:04):
reached, you have scale. Do you feel an obligation to
make sure that the continue thatartwork continues to has an Ave.
to get in front of people? Yes, absolutely.
Because of that, because of the cuts, we're not cororate
sponsored. But the the fact is that, you
know, a lot of these artists arestruggling and one of the first
places that people are going to think about cutting is where
they're going to send their extra money.

(24:26):
They can go to a restaurant, they can share a dish.
But when you're out walking in arts festivals, like how much
are you going to spend? Are you going to buy that
$10,000 painting? So we, you know, it's a very
much a cautious, yeah, discretionary.
Completely. Right.
Exactly where they're spending the money.
So we have to be very careful about that.
Yeah, but at the same time, they're more likely to do it
when they're in a space with other people around them and
they're enjoying the vibe in theafternoon.

(24:47):
Then they are just randomly going like online.
You know, I just again, we've become this odd culture that we
complain about all these things that we don't, but they're all
right in front of you. But.
The other thing is we want to feel good.
We want to feel good. We want to have a good time.
We want to get out. We don't want to be stuck in our
houses and doing that. That's where we're able to fill
that need. And I think if you look at these

(25:09):
little micro pockets and I thinkCovic forced a lot of the like
these communities become more insular and like because you
really couldn't go places that neighbors and your people became
much more important. And I think if you can go with
the vibe of hey, yeah, this might cost 20% more than what
you were thinking, but This is Money that supports a community,
right? You're supporting this community
that has been taken away. I think they're still an Ave.
for people to support each other.

(25:30):
I think it's just a little harder to bring it out of them
nowadays. It is, but it's about supporting
community. It's about supporting local,
it's about, you know, it's aboutsupporting the art.
It's a person that's right therein front of you.
You're not buying it online, butit's definitely going to hit
our, it's going to hit the tariffs on all of us that are
going to hit all of us regardless.
Yeah, yeah, I think you're starting to see it now.
Travel. Like, you know, I'm not saying

(25:51):
Vegas is the Creme de la Creme, but Vegas is getting demolished
right now because everyone who'sbeen to Vegas knows that you got
to have 5 grand in your pocket just to show up between how
expensive the food is and Nick'sproclivity to drinking and
gambling and whatever it is, youjust got to be ready.
So people are cutting back. They're just not going.
So I think it's going to happen.I think international travel's
still huge right now because I think people are still half
revenge travelling, half they're, they're bad.

(26:12):
They're mad that they're friend went and they didn't get to go.
But I just think that we're going to get to a point where
when you, when you talk about the arts and, and, and even in
even just the, you know, I don'twant to sound like a douche the
finer things in life, but just the arts as a whole, You have to
go do it. It has to be a balance to the
other things you're doing in your life.
I, I, I agree. I agree.
And but you know, when you're looking at ticket prices, for

(26:34):
instance, that's going to affectit because you're not, you don't
have the corporate sponsors anymore because they're cutting
those dollars back. So again, that's where we kind
of come into play because it allows folks to get out and
enjoy themselves and support thearts.
Yeah, and it's a shame, honestly.
I've always been I grew up, you know, in in the city.
I have so I have three younger brothers.
So we live in in New York between Queens and Long Island,

(26:55):
where I was, I think I've been to more museums in the past six
months and they've three of themtogether have been in their
whole lives. And it was because I had an aunt
who would take me and we would go to the MoMA and we would go
to the met, just her and I together and we would just
wander the met. And at first I was like, Zarin,
what are you doing? I hate this.
And then eventually you start picking up on things and you
just realize like there's no that your attention isn't even

(27:15):
required. Just wander around.
Just see what culture and absorbing things are like.
And then I started, I was lucky enough to study abroad in Italy
when I was in a junior in college and I had a teacher.
So I don't know if this, I don'tremember if a guidance counselor
told me this, but I didn't take any of my core classes until I
studied abroad. So while everybody else is
taking all this crazy stuff, I'mtaking like Dante and like art,

(27:37):
mysticism and magic and Renaissance Italy.
And I end up with this teacher who is actually an art curator
at the Vatican. So for whatever reason, he only
knew my name. He didn't know what else.
In the middle class, he called me Nick Nightfly was an old
radio DJ in Italy, but he taughtme art and I swear to God, there
were 30 people in the room. He looked like he was talking to
me. He saw I was into it and he
showed me the history of art. I got to go in the Vatican and

(27:59):
we got to go behind the scenes and see the catacombs and art
and something just lit in my head and something just lit up.
So I am a art guy. I take my kids to museums.
My kids, you know, even when he was two years old, you know,
it's not easy to take a 2 year old to a museum.
But we would do it and we would just, I don't care how long you
stay, you're wandering around. The height is a great job.
They have the kids areas, even the SCAD museum, and I just, I

(28:20):
want them to be exposed to it. I'm not going to make them draw.
I'm not going to make them. I just want them to understand
that in the world, these things exist for a reason.
And these historic ones especially, like I love the
high, I love American museums, the Moma's great, but there's
something different about endingup overseas.
I was in London in February and seeing the Raphael paintings
like they were in a Chapel is just otherworldly.

(28:42):
Like those paintings have been around for so freaking long.
The you just absorb culture and I just I feel we are not
teaching our kids to do. Those things nowadays, I, I, I
agree, Like I said, I just got back comparison on, you know, I,
someone was asking me about it and I said, you know, museum #12
kind of looks like the same as some museum #2 but they have
stuff that's, you know, centuries old.

(29:03):
And we don't really have that here, you know, struggling back
to what I do in the fences, you know, our events, like the
community comes up. So for a weekend where a space,
there's a green space, for instance, all of a sudden this
whole community comes up and it's all about art and it's all
about it's the livelihood and the energy.
And that's what I like about what we do.
And it goes right back to what you're talking about with the

(29:23):
museums where everyone's gathered together and everyone
just there kind of absorbing theenergy.
So it's, yeah, it's a full circle moment in that sense.
Yeah, and I what I really I think I enjoy the most about
museums is the perception. If you are not a museum person
is it's probably all the same type of people.
Well, you've never been to a museum then.
If you go to like the moment in New York, it is the biggest
bunch of weirdos from the weirdest places, the

(29:45):
international kids, adults, people dress preppy people dress
like in the most St. wear you'veever seen.
And I imagine it's something similar where you're walking
around and like if you have preconceived notions of who
people buying art are, you probably everyday are like
you're not even close. Like it's usually the people who
look the least like that vibe who have the nicest most
expensive. Paintings, again, you know, I'm

(30:05):
lucky to work with some great artists and you know, I see a
painting that's 10 to $12,000. I'm like, are you going to sell
that? And I do, because they're in
their communities or in the neighborhoods and these people
are out. They're out buying, they're out
shopping, they're out looking and they're out supporting the
arts and local. Yeah, Yeah, I love it.
I think, again, we're we're people.
American culture is odd. And I think, you know, the the
thing about the Northeast, even DC, there tends to be bigger

(30:28):
ethnic populations from the cities directly.
Like my mother was born in Florence here, for what it's
worth. Yes, there's a lot of it just
seems to be a very we I'm American, right?
You just get a lot more of that.So I think those cultures come
over from different places and art is different everywhere you
look like what the mediums are. The old African art is
completely different and distilled than what paintings
are and what they used to use. So I think that's part of the

(30:48):
culture is just learning what art is to you.
But it's also very personal, right?
It's it's personal to what resonates with you and it
changes as you age also. Right.
What speaks to you at the moment?
At the moment and there's great stories about it and like I
personally it sounds crazy and my wife thinks I'm nuts.
Like I love weapons, like I lovegoing to these museums where
they had the weapons that are like the hallibrands and the
stuff from the guard and like I went this the art of like

(31:10):
samurais and I'm like done go. I'm here for three hours.
I'm gonna read every single. Thing you should visit
Napoleon's tomb. You know what I mean?
Like that kind of stuff. And man, you just Start learning
about Napoleon and I mean the the French Revolution, the whole
world of liberalism we have was a microcosm of Napoleon.
So you again, that's sometime and everyone has different.
That's my thing with art. Like I like the history.
Like my wife is a very avid Catholic and we go to church at

(31:34):
Immaculate Heart of Mary, right?God bless it.
But it looks like a ski chalet. OK.
I want to walk into a church andbe like, how much messed up
stuff has happened here like that?
Like the basilica in DC was one of my favorite places on earth,
right? It's even pretty new.
But you walk in, there's catacombs and tombs and you're
like some messed up stuff went down here.
That's what I like. But you also want to walk in and

(31:54):
be in awe, Completely in awe. Yeah, you want, you want to walk
in and you want to look up and it can be completely in awe.
And, and you brought up such a good point.
Nowadays the social media revolution has cut our attention
spans to nothing. So when you have a booth, even
if it's not your artwork, you don't want to put out the best
art. It's the thing it's most likely
to grab attention, Right? Right.
And unfortunately, artists, if you're talking about musicians,

(32:16):
if you're talking about painters, they are really good
at what they do. But because of the advent of AI
and algorithms, it is not how good you are.
What you do is how good at you are telling people what you do,
how much you play into, right? You don't want to put your
paintings on Facebook or Google.You're going to be screwed
because it's not going to help support you because they're not
making money off of it. You have to come to terms with
that. And in my experience, the
creatives are the hardest peopleto get to come to terms with

(32:37):
losing creative control. But you have to do a certain
extent. Absolutely.
I mean, creatives can be crazy if you want, you know, but
that's what the beauty of it. The fact is that they, you know,
they're always spinning. They're always, the energy is
always there. Yeah.
But again, that's what I like about what I do.
Yeah, it's cool. I have to imagine the community
part is really good too, becauseif somebody has a booth next to
somebody who's doing better thanthem, they can observe best

(32:58):
practices and imply principles back to their booth.
Hopefully you observe sometimes,you know, sometimes it's a give
and take. Sometimes it's, you know,
they're antagonistic. That's not fair that they're
doing it. But a really good artist will
pay attention to what someone else is doing and try and
emulate that. You know, each one of those
booths are, that's their 10 by 10 gallery.
That's their space. So they they've got 100 square

(33:19):
feet to sell what they're doing and to demonstrate that.
So you're not talking about just, you know, you're talking
about 150 galleries, if you will, and 150 different artists,
100 and 150 different personalities, 100 different
techniques. So you know how many?
Different perceptions of what art is.
Right, right. And and how they see colors and

(33:40):
how they see things coming together.
So it's it's it's interesting and the fact.
Yeah, no, I, I love it. I was recently in Savannah and I
was struck. We were in Forsyth Park and my
kids are a little bit older now,so they're not as much of a pain
in the ass that I could actuallywalk around and explore.
And it was just art Central. You walk through four side of
the park and in Savannah and there's just people drawing and
art everywhere. You went like rows of the whole

(34:01):
row of both sides of the park, and it was refreshing to see it
because you don't. That's not the first thing you
think of when you think of Southern City, but because of
SCAD, because of the history, itwas just incredible to see how
much art and people were out there.
And everybody was different. Completely.
Everybody was different. You're like, how can this person
be completely different? This person in their city?
But they all knew each other. They were all slapping 5.
They would go talk to each other.
It was going, it was a very, it's a very nice feeling.

(34:23):
Like, look, you know, you still have to survive.
It's a community. It's a community for sure, for
sure. Yeah, it's been it.
It was really cool. And again, I I love the high is
a wonderful place, you know, butbut even the high, sometimes it
just this is going to sound wrong.
Whatever, I don't care. It feels like people sometimes
go to the high because they feelthey're supposed to go to the
high. They don't go to absorb, They

(34:44):
just kind of go because they like still feel like they have
to be there. You can just tell it's they're
more like social. They're like kind of running
around. They're not really like they're
just there because they have to be.
And I'm not saying that that doesn't happen everywhere, but
it's just I think Atlanta, for to be the cultural powerhouse to
which it wants to be, has to embrace the arts a little more
than it has. I agree with you on that one.

(35:04):
I mean, we don't have the museums like New York does or
even DCI mean. And look at what's happening
with administration and cutting back on at the Smithsonian, You
know, step away. I was lucky enough that I got to
go to the African American Museum.
It was a crazy story. I was in DCI woke.
I woke up at 2:00 in the morningto get a ticket.
Didn't get a ticket but like like screenshot of it because I
thought someone and I went to the guy front and showed him the

(35:25):
video. Like dude, come on in.
So I got to go see it and it is otherworldly.
First of all, you need 6 hours. I only had an hour and a half,
but it is amazing. That's a brand new they're
already pulling artifacts out of.
It yeah, I was insane. I was there when they started
building it. So I mean, I got to sit there
and be part of the board and watch it come up from the ground
up. But again, step back.
Yeah, step back. Yeah.
But I do, I do think that the arts in Atlanta and it could be

(35:49):
better, could grow some more. But I love again, the fact that
that's why I exist, because people want to be out.
Yeah, and again, I think art is a broad statement, so no one
saying it needs to be old paintings, right?
Like, I love the Crock St. Tunnel, like, you know, but
again, you have to be a city person.
You have to be a city person. Do you think anyone's driving
down from Alpharetta to go to the see the Crock St.
Tunnel? They think they're going to get

(36:11):
shot. I should.
I hear. I know.
I love it. I love it in in action.
It's a living paint. It's a living, breathing
painting. Yeah.
It changes every week. Yeah.
Yeah, it changes. Every week and it's part of it's
part of the problems with Atlanta.
You said that you're driving that segmentation also makes it
a little harder, right? There's probably if you look out
up to Alpharetta and you go walk1000 people, when was the last
time you were at the high? I mean, you might get 2 that
were there in the past six months.

(36:32):
Yeah. Because they're not.
Alpharetta's not going to drive to Midtown.
That's, again, talked about that.
That's why I'm around. Yeah.
And, and again, I think one of the things like with Centennial
Yards and all this stuff that they're doing, I, I've, I've met
with them, I've consulted. I'm guys, you have to understand
first to start, you have to givethem a reason when they come
down to stay one extra hour. Let's not start by thinking
anyone from Alpharetta is going to come down because you built a
$7 billion complex, Right, Right.

(36:53):
There has to be reason. So the World Cup's a great
example. But understand the amount of
people in Atlanta that are goingto be able to afford to go to
the World Cup is going to be minimal.
It's going to be an international audience.
What are you doing, doing to draw those people down?
What are you giving them that they can't get up there?
Because Roswell's community has grown around giving anemones
that you can get in Atlanta. That's why it's grown the way it
has. So I just think again, it's,

(37:13):
it's all part of this. And when I was meeting with the
Centennial Yards people, I told them, I guess if you don't fix
mass transit, this is all moot because you just took away 6000
parking spots. How are you fixing?
How are you getting people to into mass transit also?
I mean, again, we talked about New York, DC, Europe, they all
have mass transit. That's another subject.
But Atlanta's there. We're primed for growth, We're

(37:35):
ready for it. And people want to be out.
People do want to be out. And if it's done right, it'll
happen. Yeah, yeah.
I just hope we lean into the arts and we stay away from the
the need of everything to be corporate sponsored and it's
just we have museums to go to museums, right?
Like I get why the world of Coca-Cola is there, but it
bothers me. It bothers me that they're
charging me to go be completely propaganda or advertised too.

(37:57):
So it drives me a little crazy. So you.
Don't want to try 100 different types of.
Coke, most of them are atrocious.
I could try every one of them soI'm not ripping on you.
Coca-Cola give some more diabetes the bit.
Just kidding. All right, you can listen to the
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Men on Extra One O 6 Three FM. Welcome back to the marketing,
Mad Men. We're finishing up our
conversation with Randall Fox. We've covered a lot.
I've said a lot of dirty words. I said diabetes for some weird
reason, but we're going to, we're going to finish this up, I
think. You know, we've talked about
preserving the arts, we've talked about going with
community, but I think it's important to just double down on

(40:13):
this, right? We talked about funding being
cut. We talked about the livelihood
of these artists being threatened without these things
like you do, these artists are just drawers.
They're just painters because they don't have an Ave. to sell
their goods to make a living, right?
And that is the definition of being professional is an Ave. to
sell, to make money. So so one of my concerns is, is

(40:34):
it's twofold. One, if we take money out of the
arts and humanities, we, we havea a generation of people that
are coming up that are not exposed to them, which means
they won't be the future artists.
So that's the first part. The second part is, is that we
have a generation of people who found out that they can't make
money off of them, so they leavethe realm.
So what does that open yourself up to?
Unfortunately, nowadays AI taking over and all of our

(40:55):
artwork is 3D generated. I mean, this is happening in
music, right? Do you know how many people
nowadays made it famous? Because how could they play
guitar? Almost nobody.
Do you want to know how they make music nowadays?
They put Annos on your head, they play little patterns and
whatever is going to solicit a response to your brain.
That's how they make music nowadays.
You see it happening. Now, the good news is I also
think that people get to a pointwhere they just revolt against
that, and then some of the best art comes out of that point.

(41:17):
So where do you see things? How important is this for the
sake of art, for the world and for right now?
Or am I just being completely really over exaggeratory here?
Well, I think there can be two different types of art, but I
mean, in a sense, people are creative.
So I think that, you know, in that creative sense of it, you
know, people are going to continue doing that sense.

(41:37):
You know, we talk about the economy, we talk about AI.
You know, people are going to look for other ways to make
money for sure. So I think, you know, for what I
do and for what the artists do, they're going to be creative and
they're going to look for ways to take time to do things.
So I think for what we do, it isstill going to be around.

(41:59):
I think what you have to look atis how it's going to integrate.
You know, a painter is still going to be a painter, It's just
a question of how is their work integrated with the AI and how
can they separate it so that they can they're able to sell
it. Yeah, or keep it separate so
they have only intellectual property.
Someone's just not ripping them off.
I mean, that's the biggest problem right now is you're

(42:20):
literally AI is making painting.It's like, make this an
impression of style. Well, there's thousands of
impressions out there that that style is intellectual property
of them that you were scraping off of to make something new.
There's no protections. Well, but are we teaching?
You in the schools anymore? Are they learning what that is?
I mean, my renaissance are, my kids are, I mean, I I can only
speak for myself and my kids. I was not an artist growing up.

(42:40):
I didn't even draw like my kids are.
They love it. They can't do a stick figure.
They love doing it. And and because I have a boy and
a girl and they're close in age,the girl did it.
So now the boys like, I'm gonna be better than you, which I lean
into. I'm like, yeah, Daddy's gonna
put the best one on the fridge. Go right, Right.
You're not supposed to do that. But you know what?
That's the only way you get better is by being competitive.
Right. But I think people are creative
in a sense, yeah. And they look for ways to fill

(43:01):
their time or they look for hobbies for sure, whether it's a
leather worker or a or a Potter.So I think that that will always
be around because, you know, crafts and and trades work have
always been around for centuries.
Yeah, for sure, since the beginning.
It's just how it's integrated. Yeah.
I think AI is going to, you know, digitally, you know, how
it's going to affect the arts. You know, it'll be interesting

(43:23):
to. See, yeah, I've been in a couple
of museums, the last one, you know, where they're modern art
museums and they always have these digital art displays.
And like, it's always with mixedemotion.
I walk in like there's a lot of TV screens and neon lights and
like conceptually I get it, but I'm not there yet.
I'm I guess, right. The same museum has a 2000 old
year old painting. Is this art?
I mean, what's going on here? And like I, I, I go, I lean into

(43:45):
it. I understand conceptually, but
I'm not there yet. But that being said, as
generations past, that becomes the new form of our new form,
right? Modern art started in what?
Like they say, 1800s that modernart started.
Well, but look at Jackson Pollock and look at Mona Lisa
talking to different extremes, so you know.
In extremes, I'm not saying they're anywhere near equal
popularity, but most people in the world know who Jackson

(44:05):
Pollock is. Right.
But is everyone going to appreciate who it is, who he is?
I think as you age and all of a sudden some of the things that
he does, like a great example, and I'm not saying what Pollock
and Warhol are same thing, but when you're in the 1970s, a
Campbell's soup can is nothing. But now you look back at the
nostalgia makes like, oh, that'spretty cool.
I can't believe that Marilyn Monroe in that moment was

(44:26):
nothing, but now all of a suddenyou look back.
So I think time helps change what art is also.
Right but and people are creative, you know for a bottom
line regardless of where we're at they're.
Created You see me do this hosting a podcast from nothing.
I mean, I'm not going to say I'man artist, but it ain't easy to
do most people. Can't do it.
You're good at what you. Do most people can't do it, but
the joke is is that why did I doit?
So here's part of the problem when someone asks why you do

(44:47):
this OK the only thing I said isFirst off I'm going to do 150
episodes like what you mean I gowell how would I know if I'm
good at it? How would I know if I'm worth a
damn if I don't do it enough times to be good?
I think people believe nowadays,because of the instant
gratification, that you're gonnado something, be graded and make
$1,000,000. I agree with you on that one.
Social media and instant gratification.
Everything's instant, Everything's right away.

(45:09):
I think you're right in that sense that it has changed in
that scope. But again, you go back to
creative and The thing is they're what they're trying to
get that energy out of their outof their brain has to.
Manifest itself some way 'cause otherwise you're gonna go crazy
if you don't have a hobby or creative bone in you.
And look, creativity manifests itself so many ways.
Like people just like to read and that's a in its own form, a
form of creativity, reading old books and piercing things

(45:31):
together. So I agree I and then look, I
think human nature is an amazingthing.
And I think every time someone counts us as a Society of people
out, we pivot the other way. Well, history repeats itself
always. There we go.
Always, always. Well, let's hope that we are not
heading for a medieval time, dark ages, and let's hope that
we go refine the Hermetic writings of ancient Greece and
we enter a new Renaissance wherewe lean into these things.

(45:53):
Because right now I my concern is, is that when capitalism,
which is the current religion, runs everything and is the thing
that everyone works towards, thearts and humanities suffer.
And what I want to see is more leading into when people be able
to express themselves and art done the right way brings people
together, doesn't drive them. Apart, I think people are going
to lean into it. I think they're going to need
that outlet. Good.
Well, I love it. Well, we're going to and then a

(46:14):
positive note. You've been listening to the
marketing Mammon on X1063. Randall.
Thank you, Sir. I appreciate it.
Tell them where to find Atlanta Foundation of Public Spaces.
Talk about the upcoming events. This will probably air.
June, So give an idea what'll becoming up and around the month
of June. We got Piedmont Park Arts
Festival in August. That'll be our big one in
August. You can always find us at AFF,
Apple. Frank, Frank, Paul, sam.com.

(46:36):
We got a great sounds like a boyband.
I know, doesn't it? We got a great marketing team.
Karen W, she's you can Google us.
You can find us anywhere. If you're looking for an arts
festival, you can. She's got us covered.
That's awesome. You've been listening to
Marketing Mam and an extra one O6 three.
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