Dave Klaiber built his career in advertising and directing — pitching big ideas and leading creative campaigns for major brands. But these days, he’s using his skills to tackle something more personal: men’s mental health, community, and connection.
In this episode, Dave opens up about the highs and lows of the ad world, his own mental health journey, and why he's now focused on storytelling with purpose. From his True South documentary, to his virtual reality projects, and now his new series It Ain’t Over Yet — aimed at emotional resilience — Dave is proof that creativity can evolve and still hit just as hard.
Learn more about It Ain't Over Yet and check out David's Website here: https://www.itaintoveryet.tv/
Follow David on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/daveklaiber/
You can subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://mentored.com.au/newsletter-sign-up
Follow Mark Bouris on Instagram, LinkedIn & YouTube.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris Dove Kleiber. Welcome
to the Mental. Mate. I've gotta be careful because I
just did another podcast of straight talk, so I want
to make sure I got you on the right podcast.
This is the Mental.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thanks having me, Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And you're a mate of a made of mine. We
have a good mate in common and he's made huge
recommendations about you. Mate, you have a lot to live
up to here. Maybe let's just kick it off. It
says in the in your bio in my bio that
my guys revenue that you're a director like as in film. Yes,
maybe just give us a bit of an insight into that.
(00:38):
So you know, what is a film director as a
business person? What are you trying to achieve? Or is
it just some passionate some passion thing.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Look, I think if I just might.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Just interrupt, I have just let's live aside your latest
passion project for the moment, just talk about generally, what's
it like being a film director and you work for yourself,
you know, if you're working for Channel nine or something,
what's that like?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Look at changes changes daily? Really, I started off directing
commercials probably about thirty years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Wow, and very differently as an advertising person as in advertising.
But you're working. Were you the advertising person or you
were the person the advertising crew got in to do
the ad?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I was there. I was from the production company that
would come in to direct the commercial, so that I'd
get a script of paper, piece of paper with a
script on it, and we grow that client service, client service,
client face exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Maybe you need maybe be good to I don't even
know if this still exists, but maybe you can explain
how advertising agencies worked twenty thirty years ago. I remember
I dealt with a single to know you'll be maytherep
back in the too early two thousands, I think it
was I was running. It was the boss, or actually
Brussel Tape was the boss, and I don't know what
(02:01):
seeing was doing there, but and they would pitch an ad,
along with a whole lot of other advertising agencies in
those days, and we chose them to do the ad
based on a number of things. And the next thing
I was dealing with a production crew who happened to
be part of the organization.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Right is that it what roughly roughly back in the
day when I first started off, I started as the
as basically the shit kicker, you know, the guy, the
kid that went and got coffee and everything. And back
in the day, the singers and those sort of guys
would have their long lunches on a Friday down at
the wharf or wherever they were and Matchew Velli's Mackew Velly's,
(02:42):
and there'd be phone. The story goes, there used to
be the phone connections underneath the seats of the table,
so there'd be a phone they're sitting there, so they'd
be getting on the drink in the afternoon or a
Friday afternoon. And that's how advertising ran, and a lot
of stuff ran on handshack deals and it was a
really I think it was a really creat time. You know,
you're at the time of your Mojo's.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
You just might explain that Morris Morrison and Mojo was
the name of two guys, guys, two guys names put together,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And they had they had a very famous advertising agency
that that sort of specialized in the classic jingles. Yeah,
you know, you can get it sliding, you can get
it milkyccow. Matter of fact, they've got it now.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, though that was it was a beer brand yeah,
it was. Yeah, And and from those days things things
were really free flowing. There was a there was a
lot of money in the market, so TV commercials, it
wasn't it wasn't wrong to have a million plus on
(03:49):
a thirty second commercial. To spend a million plus. Yeah,
well you're right actually, because I couldn't believe because I
had the wizard business of the day and Kerry Kerry
Packer was my part partner at the time, time that
we need to get one of these agencies to write
an ad for us, and like, but when I got
confronted with the cost, only died. It was like, I
(04:11):
think a thirty second ad that we were going to
run for you know, like just like the September period
when you know, auctions sort of become much more popular
because the winter traditionally in those days when estate would
drop off, and we're a lending company, so you know,
we're trying to advertise into that environment. Was this is
in two thousand, you know, this is the year two thousand,
(04:33):
two hundred and eighty thousand dollars. For me, I just like,
what the hell I mean? It was my first introduction
to that. Actually, I had to an early one. I
had where I funded myself was a mob called Colins
and Crew and it was much too. But when I
got to the big organizations who did everything, oh my god,
and there was no talent. I was the talent less
so to speak. I mean, it wasn't really talent, but
(04:56):
I was the talent, and so we weren't paying for
any talent. It's just a production. That was the biggest
cost was it was like it doesn't exist, say, though
not so much.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
No, It's interesting the expectations still there for these multi
million dollar film shoots, but the budgets have come right down. Advertisers,
you know, with the economy and the stretches that are
inherent with that, the numbers have come right down. And
it's it's a shame too, because creativity creatively, that side
(05:31):
of the business has also sort of diminished a little bit.
A lot of the really great copywriters.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Or the people write the words, people.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Who write the words or come up with the concepts,
that sort of that's gone down as well. And I
think it's just through TV TV production and the lessening
of how all that's sort of come together now.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And because TV is not as you're right, because there's
so many other alternative places to advertise correct Yeah, fast
and quick fast quick. That's where basically give it gives
you class that didn't work, Let's do another one. Because
I was always terrified if this ad doesn't work, I've
sunk a whole lot of do into it and it's
not going to work. That means it's just it's just
(06:12):
lost money. And there was a lot of Therefore, there
was a lot of pressure on the creatives to get
the right messaging, and the messaging usually was as a
result of the right briefing. Yes, but if you didn't know,
say something like me, I'm not a marketing guy or
an advertising guy. In order for me to brief you correctly, yes,
(06:34):
I need to sort of not only understand my marketplace,
because it wasn't the same level of analytics around markets
or your or your customers that we have today what
they like and feed them while they like. There wasn't
that same sort of analytics. It was more like gut reaction.
And at the same time, in order to brief you,
I needed to have a bit of experience with the creative,
(06:55):
because I can't brief a creative if I don't know
anying about creative. How did you used to reconcile that
sort of stuff as the production guy.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Look, we were sort of we were always from the
outside of the agency, so we'd the agency would deal
with someone like you. Then they'd come up with the
concept of the commercial, and then that would then get
briefed out to us. Now, before it got briefed out
to us, a lot of the times that goes into research.
So they spend bunches and bunches of money in research
(07:27):
and putting an idea, and that goes out to people.
They get a whole bunch of people in a room
paying fifty bucks and a cup of coffee, and they
literally have the big say on huge campaigns. And it
was really quite I always found that quite a strange
thing because I don't think it was always necessarily a
great cross section of the community that is giving their feedback.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So and also depend on the questions that God asked. Absolutely,
so you could sort of structure the whole process if
you're the person asking the group of people. So basically
what used to happen, as I recall, is that you
would pay It's just had people one hundred bucks and
a few beers in a pizza or something. Like that,
and there might be twenty people or ten people in
(08:12):
the room come into the room, and then the advertising
agency who's won the pitch with the messaging yes, tries
the messaging out onto the people in the room, and
a couple of storyboards yep, a couple story boards yep.
And long time, a lot of times they used to
get filmed and recorded correct, and you would try to
(08:35):
sort of test out your messaging idea with all the
people in the room. And I wanted to myself, well, hang,
how do I know that this is a good cross
section of the community is going to listen to me?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I never understood it.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Did you ever think to yourself sometimes when they gave
you the brief ready to produce direct, because you were
to direct the characters or the talent that has been
chosen for the ad. You used to think yourself, these
guys got it wrong. Did you just reflect the litters?
You just say, no, that's my job. I'm just going
to produce something looks good, sounds good.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh look. The politically correct thing to say was no,
they were always right, But the reality was yeah, fuck
all the time, inc script.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And you'd just be like, what this is?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
This is crazy, and then you try and fix it,
you or you're trying to all the time. Absolutely, absolutely,
you'd always sort of do a take for you know,
I'd always do a take for the script, So the
one for the script, straight off the script to the
client and then you go, okay, cool, Hey how about
we try this. I'll go to the actor and say, hey,
let's just do something a little bit different. You know,
(09:38):
sometimes it falls flat on its ass. But then sometimes
the creative the agency will go, oh my god, that's
that's fantastical. The client's just like, oh, that's that's the
best thing. And you learn you learn tactics too in that,
you know, in those years of I remember an old
director told me, told me a bit of information. Once
that's stayed with me. It's put your idea into the
(10:01):
client's head and get them to tell it to you.
That's the art.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
So again, who's the client though in this case, so the.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Client would be the client would be you for the
one spending money, but the one spending money. So if
you get in there and you sort of talk and
you do your dad.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Because I would turn up to the ad my organization
with someone from organization would always turn up to the
ad whether I was in it or not, because they're watching.
It's just so the audience knows. Is so, so you're
the director, yes, you would say, oh, there's the client,
there's wizards, the clients or yellow brick road. I'm going
to get over and have a talk to this dude. Yeah,
(10:37):
and knowing already what the brief is, knowing already what
sort of messaging they're trying to they're going to because
you've got the script in front of you, which is
usually written by them, so you're thinking to yourself, I
might actually give this dude an alternative.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You've got to be real careful because you know you
don't want to step on the agency and undermine them.
But at the same time, you've you've probably met you've
probably all met before in a pre production meeting, so
you've you've broken that bit of ice. And usually I
always like the way that I work, which is different
than all other you know, different directors work different ways.
But the way I really like to work was as
a collaboration and always have my ideas working with the creative,
(11:18):
the agency creatives ideas, so then you're all working together
to come up with the best possible solution and the
best possible.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Outcome for an ad.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Sometimes they you know, sometimes you hit them out of
the park and you you know, you've short walking a
handshake in the French riviera, and sometimes yeah, you get
panned by your peers.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
And what did you learn that? What did you learn
in that environment? How many years you spend in that environment?
Far out it's probably a good twenty five years, best
part of your career, best part of my career. Yeah,
and what are the learnings from that that you've taken
into what you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
You know, what you learn to be resilient. It's it's
a really tough industry because it's you know, I liking
it to acting or something like that, where you get
a script. It's not just your you're getting the script.
There's three other directors getting the script as well. You're
getting paid to do the pitch. And then you've got
to put together this document called a treatment, which is
(12:17):
thirty pages of words and pictures, and it becomes a
creative writing exercise, even more so than.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
The actual.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Execution of a of the pictures. So you've got to
go through that whole process and then you you know,
you work for you can work for weeks on a
pitch and then they just go, you know, sorry, you.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Can get the other guy got it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
The other guy got it, and he's like, fuck, okay, next, next, next, next,
and it's got And nowadays it's got harder and harder
because a lot of overseas directors. You know, there's a
lot of work in America obviously with what's going on
over there now, a lot of the expat Aussies are
coming back here and so these commercials that are becoming
less or less have got more people's hands going up.
(12:57):
I'm ready to do it, so you can get a
you know, the better part of a Hollywood direct attic series, Yeah,
to do it. Beer out fuck, yeah, it has all
the time.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, especially beer ads because they paid, especially beert and
or gambling ads. Yep, they play, they play well, pay.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Well, they're in. They're in the big thing now. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So what did you do post directing?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, I haven't really stopped directing.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I've still been advertising.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So post advertising, I'm still I've still got one toe
in the water with advertising, and I still really enjoy it.
I really enjoyed the people and the camaraderie and the
group you know, with the cruise and what have you.
A couple of years ago I got asked to do
a documentary on the world's fastest ocean racing yachts Comanche
(13:47):
Wild Height's eleven, which as an Australian ye and it
sort of turned into it started as a bit of
a it was going to be a series like a
Drive to Survive, and it turned into a featured documentary
and it's now turned into a little bit of a
family story. In the tragedy from the City to Hobat
of nineteen ninety eight, we've just.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Finished that, and then you've just finished that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
We've just finished it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Is that the one where John Dean passed away?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
They never just they never found his body because he
was what boat was he? And do you remember yeah,
Winston Churchill, mister Churchill and John's had two sons, correct,
Peter Nathan and Peter. Nathan and Peter yep, And I
remember Nathan quite well. Peter was much younger, but Nathan
(14:38):
would have been like eighteen or something around that age.
His documentary is all about them. Oh really, yeah, Oh
that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah. And John Winner, you know John Winning.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I know John Winning well and John's from Comanche.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Correct, he bought it. So that's the story of how
they got the boat, and then they brought it back
and then yeah, and then the story of them.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Bringing the boys, Young John winning of course yep. Herman, yes, herman, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes, yeah, yeah, as opposed to Woody mate.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, my neighbor actually yeah right, he grew up Aross
the road for me, yeah right, yeah, yeah, and he's
not they the family doesn't know that house anymore but done.
They sold him for some years ago. But yeah, yeah,
and actually he's been on my podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it has been on the podcast That's Mad. So but
you were you sailor.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I've been a sailor before, Like I wasn't not a
competitive sailor in that realm, and that was quite interesting
because I got I pretty much got thrust straight into
the sailing world. And if you know the sailor Fraturn,
it's pretty closed up book and trying to deal with
and interviewing people, you know, like Ian Murray, who's an
incredible bloke, but all they're trying to get a story
(15:45):
out of her mate. It was shut It was a
shut shot.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Murray was from Straight to which won the Sydney Order
defended City have but I defended the America's Curry's Cup.
Did infend it, will win it?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I can't remember now he defended He've defended over in Fremantle,
over in w a too much fanfare, but I was there.
That was fall on and he's just the story. So
he's got unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So In became a boat builder for a while there
he did.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He's got his fingers in everything.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
In fact, I brought a boat from him many many years.
Agoor my son did, one of my sons did. He
was good? He was so Who was the guy produced
to wing kill?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Ben LExEN?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Ben LExEN, he's been les alive? No, No, he's passedway Okay.
Murray and Ben LExEN were and were sort of collaborators
in relation to the defense. Yes, and and I soon
recall that there was a well known guy, one of
Bonds guys. He was a chairman of Bond Corporation actually
(16:47):
for a while, and he was a really fit guy.
I can't he was the whatever the captain of the
boats called. Anyway, he's past away. But so is this stuff,
any of this stuff in your documentary?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah? Yeah, all little bits of pass as soon as
I started talking to them, and as soon as they,
I guess accepted me and Timmy who you met, we
did that together, and as soon as they accepted us,
the doors just opened. I became very close with with
Woody Winning and his beautiful wife, Kerry John and those
(17:20):
guys and the Dean family and their mother. I was
a beautiful, beautiful woman, and the stories just came out,
and it became a really natural. The story became really
natural to us, and it became really apparent of what
needed to be done and how we and how we went.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
What year we're talking about now.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
So this was twenty twenty two was when we started shooting.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
What year we talking about? When the when the tragedy
happened ninety eight? Yeah, because I remember where I was
when I heard the news. I was down at Watson's Bay,
and I was just looking across at the VYC, the
Vocalo Yocht Club where the two boys were members of
and they were avid young sailors. Absolutely, the two boys,
(18:07):
and one of them might have just left school was Nathan,
and either just left school might have been still in
year twelve. And I remember because I knew the family
quite well I knew John very well, and but more
more because our kids were mates. And the shock of
it all was like horrific and I and I mean,
(18:28):
I'm gonna when is that really sad?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Literally, we've literally finished the last couple of weeks. It's
just gone over to Venice Film to get see if
it we'll get into the Venice Film Festival.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Wow? And where will it be shown? Do you think TBC?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
That's it? All sort of depends on distribution and at
those sort of stages.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Now, so you directed this, I did? Wow?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And how did you get chosen to do this or
how did that happen?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You know what? It was a bit of a you
know that we talk on the on the thing of
a perfect storm that was very similar to that. I
was away. I was actually having Fiji and buddy of
mine who's grew up with Herman. Herman called him and said, hey, listen,
we're going to buy this. I think we're going to
get this boat. Do you guys want to film do something?
And then I sort of had this idea, why don't
(19:12):
we do it? Like a drive to survive? And it
evolved from there and it just grew and grew and grew.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And it sort of documents the period which the Winning
family owned the boat and correct the stuff that happened
before to that. Yes, yes, that's very interesting. So Herman's
the family decided to basically document the whole period.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, we documented the whole We spent Yeah, I
spent the better part of a year following him around
and meeting the wild and wooly people of the Australian
yacht seen and international yacht scene actually because they had
a lot of overseas crew on board and they fascinating,
fascinating people and great you know, I've made friends.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
For life, very generous people. And actually for those people
don't know, the Winning family owned Winning Suppliances, but John,
the youngest son or the son who's probably close to
forty I guess maybe a little bit more than forty,
is the owner and the person behind appliance Is Online,
(20:16):
which is like probably one of the fastest growing definitely
was at the time a few years ago with definitely
one of the fastest growing online businesses in the country,
and they've done brilliantly. I don't do John has deliving Astralia.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, Yron some reason, he zips in and out.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, he's got that. I know he's got the person place. Yeah.
So and and and what's your connect to with Gingel?
So I'm are you a Byron boy?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I'm a bond boy.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
He's a Bond boy too.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Okay, how much younger than him? Though a little bit? No, Well,
I'm going to tell you look younger than Ginge.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm younger than gin By. Yeah by probably less than
ten years.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
But yeah, younger years older, interviewed him. I interviewed him
this week, did you. Yeah, Yeah, we did an interview.
No one's interview gins before. So I did a and
We're Ill had a film and so it was sort
of a off camera type thing, but I interviewed in
front of a live audience. Yeah, is that right? And
it was amazing, Like it went for two hours, nearly
just on the two hours was live audience, small li
(21:19):
live audience, and he was amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
But the stories he has had to tell and about
his own life and careers, and it was just amazing.
It was but I knew most of it anyway, mainly
because I'd be a maze for a long long time.
But the audience loved it. It was just they were gobsmacked.
We're just sitting there. So what's your connection with Gas
Apart from being BONDI boy.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
My connection with Gins is I was. I grew up
with Jodie Mees. It was like a sister to me.
He's a sister to me. So when when she hooked
up with James and got married and got married, that
all sort of came together. And then I bet sort
(22:07):
of really connected then with Ginge at those sort of stages,
in the early stages of that and knowing him from
down the beach to surfing.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And we're still borrotting board. You can still get up
all right back yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so back, So you know it's work
in progress.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, as it always is.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It is.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Eventually I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, I want to try and get through till at
least seventy five.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Seventy five, mate, that's not far off where I am
so so David, then you, of course you are. You
were one of the first film filmmakers to adopt and
piney a custom built three sixty degree via virtual reality
rig and you did something quite amazing which had huge
number of views. You put yourself well, I don't know
how best to describe is but you produced your using
(23:01):
virtual reality inside of the tube.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, it was. It wasn't me surfing it, it was
with So we.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Explained that process. We have fifty million views or something
crazy thing.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
That's something like that. Yeah. Yeah, So we we were
real early adapters of VR tech, which coming from the
advertising world, we were sort of in there. So we
were picked up by Samsung, Google, Facebook, a lot of
where we were sort of the go to people. So
we would bot production for production for production, So we
(23:35):
build our equipment using v our equipment, and we it
was real early stages, so we'd be building all this
stuff and testing it and seeing how it works. And
we had I teamed up one of our directors, Taylor Steele,
who's very famous surf filmmaker, and we had the idea
we wanted to film inside the barrel three sixty. So
put the goggles on and look around.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
But you're filming Actually what the goggles were seing were
showing me.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, so you're filming insights. So we had a camera
mount off off the surfers. Well.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
C J.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Hobgood was a surfer old ex world champion champion bloke,
and we had a camera. It was at that stage
the cameras were a big, big ball thing, and we
had this rig rig that came did that attached to him,
which we tested. We did test over in Fiji once
with Kelly Slater when Kelly's going for a world title,
like two things before the end, and Kelly wiped out
(24:28):
and we went up breaking his toe. So that wasn't
so we're pretty popular there. But anyway, CJ so first
year filmed the.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Film inside the tube yes on this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yes with J Yes Yeah, and that got there and
we ended up getting the shot and that that then
became a story that then went onto YouTube and now yeah,
it's sort of fifty million. But I think the thing
that we were really most proud of is we got
to film the Great White Sharks down in South Australia.
We'd filmed all day, it was all pretty good and
(25:02):
I found this massive metal pole on the side of
the boat and we found and I had this metal
wire with us and we basically built a fishing rig
with a VR camera and flicked it off at the
end of the day and the guys brought.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
The sharks around with a bit of burly.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
A bit of burly and this twenty foot great white
comes in, swims around the camera and comes and eats
the camera, and I'm holding on the pole and I'm
going it's got a spit it and starts pulling off
the button. I'm not going to fucking let go. And
I've got the grip diving and grabbing my ankles and
I'm on the side of the boat.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
And then all of a sudden, here they go.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
The camera comes out. It's all scratched and broken, but
we pulled all the cards in and this has never
really been shown because it was sort of before the
full adaption of it boat.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, you get did you get into his mouth?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Inside the mouth? So you actually get eaten by a
great white shark and you can look out and look
out its mouth and the teeth. Anyway, Yeah, it's been
what's been. It was owned by someone else. I'm just
sort of in the midst of finding out whether what
we can do with it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
But you're on you're on board. Someone else commissioned it,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Correct, But who aren't who aren't in the space anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So, Yeah, but if they're interested in sort of releasing it.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Too, we'll say that's something it's something that's definitely the
thing that's interestingly enough talking to Gingja about it the.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Other week, given that they will probably already know that
you've already had fifty million views on something else you've done.
They probably think they're probably counting on there both hands.
How much can we ask for? But it could be
royalty based. You could do some royalty yeah, because I
mean at fifty million views, I presume someone like YouTube,
it's on Youtubeeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, it's not. It's not on it's not really on it.
It's not really living anyway.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
No, No, I mean that. I mean that the surfing one.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yes, yes, that's YouTube.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I mean you get paid from YouTube for doing that.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I don't so that was commissioned for the WSLF for
the World Surf Week, right, and that's their thing. So
fifty million views, that's that's pretty healthy. I know the
returns on YouTube because it's somebody that's that I'm working
at the moment. Someone's getting paid.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, that's very interesting. You have a bit of a
backstory though, you and you're you're you're actually now producing
or you've produced a new show a series which you're
trying to get film financed correct.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You just tell us the name of the film.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So it's called You Don't Yet is a is a series.
It's a series on Yet Yet, Yeah, series on men's
mental health. Basically, it's a an episodic series where each
episode we sit down with a with a different guy
and go through their story and it's about their struggles
(27:39):
or related struggles, but also how they overcome it. And
I think that's the.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Not just doing glooms.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
No, it's it's it's it's not doing a gloom. It's
about it's about men relating to it. And I think
that's the whole premise of this idea sort of came
from a place of men being able to relate to
something thing and then see a way ways in which
to get out, rather than how it's been done up
(28:06):
until till now. It's you'll be right, mate.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Go and have a beer and suck it up or
get over it.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Get over it? Yeah, fuck, don't worry about it. You're fine.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Can you just explain to me maybe as to why
you did that? What? What? What? What was the lead up to
that for you?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So look, I think the leading is eight to ten
years ago I had you know, I was married, houses
had a big boat. Everything outline from the outside looked
fucking rosy, you know, breaking it in, But on the
inside it was completely different.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
You know. It was a really inside your head, inside.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
The inside, inside my head, inside the relationship I was
really I wasn't a really bad it was a bad marriage.
It wasn't. It was pretty toxic, and I guess it
sort of took away. I sort of felt like it
took away all of my confidence and I sort of
just regressed and that at the time. At the time,
and then as that was happening, the whole VR world,
(29:12):
which we'd heavily gone into that sort of went away.
Samsung had jumped out of the It just never took on,
and I thought we put all our you know, we
put all our chips on black, and it flipped your head.
So then I lost my company and I was.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Just like fuck. As it was during the marriage or
as a result of the marriage, it was sort of.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
During It was almost concurrent. It wasn't because of or
anything like that. It was just concurrent at the time,
and I was just it just seemed like one of
those perfect storms where everything just came in and the
rug just got pulled out from under me.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
And then you know you're talking about the divorce being
part of the road being pulled from under you.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Divorce divorces another looked separations, separations always had got you know,
I've got three kids and that's always you know, it's
always really difficult balancing that. But also the divorce was
horrible and dragged on for many.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Years, paying the expensive Fuck it's the away. But you know,
can you believe that it's a government has set it up?
I mean as Lionel Murphy who brought in that changed
the Matrimonal Courses Act and brought in the New Family
Law Act back in the seventy something rather and he's
the A Party Attorney General. But it's it's not just
(30:26):
on men or it's like it's an atrocious process.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
The thing is fucking broken, Yes it is. It is
really everyone, for everyone. The lawyers, that's the only people
that they put their hand up.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And it's just like so you get opposing lawyers for
a start, I mean, you get one, she gets one
or she gets one. You get one because you have
to because you don't know what the is going on.
And they are charged like wounded bulls. Correct, They the
opposition immediately distrusts you. You're the world's worst person. Like absolutely,
that's just the position that put you. They can be
(31:01):
a friend of yours today and the day they get appointed,
you are the world's worst person. I mean literally, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then then it becomes very expensive. It just gets
racked up, and it's racked up and it's racked up,
and you're going, fuck, this is all going to come
out of both our our pockets.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Correct, Yeah, and you lose and look at the end
of at the end of my thing, I walked away
with nothing. And you know, it's just it's such a
sad thing because it's a reflection of It's a reflection
of society today, I think is a bigger picture. And look, I'm.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
It's traumatizing very much so, especially if you're a business person,
like you're in business, yeah, trying to let's just put
aside for a moment, for the moment that VR I
wouldn't say tanked. It just didn't become the thing everyone
expected to become. In fact, in fact, I was one
of those ones expected to become something too. But just
(31:55):
put out aside. You're own business person dealing with business issues.
Every day trying to win jobs, to compete and be
competitive on jobs. You're trying to keep your staff or
the people that you know in your game, the people
who subcontract to you. You're trying to keep them you know, available,
you know, and happy and feeling like they're engaged because
you know, if you lose them, you're very able to
get them back, and then you can't fill the next job,
(32:16):
you can't price. So you're running a business and then
you get in front of with this fucking legal mindfield
and also an ethical mindfield too. Everything gets about kids.
The person who you know, at one stage in your
life you loved now becomes public in any number one,
and everybody then gets pushed into accusations, et cetera, because
(32:39):
it becomes a blame game. So the whole family law
structure is about who's to blame. Yes, yeah, and that's
that's the seventies thing. It's like, yeah, it's a seventies
thing because that's where the legislation was conceived in the seventies,
which is fair, but today, you know, twenty five fifty
(33:00):
years later, it's all bullshit. Look, we're not getting on.
We've grown apart. There's a few issues. You know, it's
not about blame. I did this, you did that. You know,
who came first doesn't really fucking matter. The kids are
the most boarding. Let's look after them, and let's, by
the way, whatever we build up in terms of dollars,
let's preserve and let these motherfuckers go in there and
(33:22):
take from us as lawyers and judges and everybody else
sing there in judgment of you and documents and agreements
like somehow you've I get it, some people, women especially,
we're getting rauded under the old system. I get that bit.
But today we don't need to act this way. I mean,
because most I think most people are fairly responsible. There
are occasions with a movie doesn't need to go to
(33:43):
an arbitrator, but generally speaking, the whole thing is fashioned
to destroy.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You totally and not just and it's not just guys
as well, it's the women with with my situation, no
one walked away, No I just walked We just walked away.
We walked away millions of dollars, you know, nearly a
million bucks less, and it's just like, what the fuck for?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I don't, yeah anyway, and that.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Just did that give you mental health problems?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
You think that pushed me over the edge. Yeah, look
what happened. I got to the end of that and
it was just lost business. I lost everything.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I was like, why would you lose the Why did
you lose the business?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I think at the same at that time, we'd gone
so heavily, we heavily invested in this VR world, and
that wasn't reaping the returns. Trying to jump back into
the advertising world wasn't as easy because things had things
had sort of gone backwards, and I guess my from
my point of view, my confidence was just shot. Like
I was just I was literally on edge. I started
(34:45):
seeing a therapist and she was like, You've got the
worst pts to I've ever seen, and I was that
was fully traumatized. Yeah, so it took so I sort
of got into a just sort of got into that
hole and that classic hole too.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
How do you get out of it? Booze, drugs, what ever?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Just escape? That was the That was the big thing.
And it's and you just get you get more and
more into yourself, and then you withdraw yourself from your mates,
you enjoy yourself and you're just in that quiet thing
and it's just and you start having the dark the
dark times and everyone you know that everyone speaks about.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Did you get sodal thoughts?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Look, I probably got pretty close to there once or twice.
But I'm really lucky. I've got a great group of
friends that were there for me, and I met someone
new a little while after, and she has been an
absolute beacon in my life of getting me out of
(35:40):
that and just getting just starting the road two. You say,
to the road to redemption, but it's it's sort of
just the road out to be able to get out
and feel normal again. And I think one of the
biggest things for me, and one of the biggest things
I've learned from from the series is is isolation is
(36:03):
probably the worst, the worst thing with mental illness.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Or why do you think we isolated? We're embarrassed?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think probably for me it was probably, Yeah, I'm embarrassed.
You don't you know you have so much success and
then that's taken away from you, So it.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Was your main embarrassment, I'm no longer successful on my
failure was your embarrassment, I'm getting divorced, I'm a failure
as a husband or a father.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I think I think it was probably a little bit
of column, a little bit of Columbae.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yep. You know I tried.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You know, I tried really hard with both. But then
you sort of it felt like everything was sort of
weighing up on me, and the more I tried to
swim against the current, the current got stronger, if that
makes sense. And then it got to a point where
it was just like, fuck, do I just get out
of this? And then one day I was just like
(36:55):
I looked out at the balcony and I was looked
down the beach and there was a little way and
I just went, fuck, I've got to get out of it. Yeah,
at the time, I probably did. For yeah, I did.
For a few months. You just you stop everything because
you lose It's almost like you lose a party yourself,
you know, when you're in.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That, you lose your soul.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, and then I just did the one little thing
and it's I was just saying to Timmy before, the
hardest part when you're in that headspace and you're in
that thing, is the first step out. And that's what
I'm trying to show with this series is there's all
different everyone's got a different story, everyone's going through a
different hardship. But everyone's got a different way of getting out,
(37:37):
and maybe one person sees it goes, oh, I can
relate to that, or that guy's going through that and
he does that. Fuck, maybe I could try just going
for a walk, or maybe I could try jumping in
the water in winter, or maybe I can try this
or that. That's what the whole the.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Whole process does each episode do? They have how many episodes?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
So I've got I've sort of arted shooting the first four.
I sort of this. I just want to keep going
on and on because it's interesting. Since launching the promo,
I've had so many people reach out to me friends
and the promos released, promos released, Yeah, promos on YouTube,
they can find that it ain't over yet.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Dot tv it ain't over yet.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Dot tv tv is our is our website.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
They can go on there and they can jump on
and they can click onto the promo. They can have
a look at that. And we're just in the stages
now finishing. I've got a few episodes that I'm in
the that are in the works. And as you've got
you've got four, I've got five. I've got five in
the works at the moment.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Five shot five filmed.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, and I've funded all that myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, I just go back a set. No, no, it's okay,
just go back a set. So it's interesting, you know,
when you're in a hole in business and then something
happens is generally speaking, what does happen, as it happens
in relation to your personal relationships as well, somehow sort
of happened at the same time, happened at the same time,
(39:08):
and then, as you said, you withdraw. But what's interesting
about what you said is you just had something that
drew you back into the water. And for surfers and
for those people who don't know, surfing is sort of meditational.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I mean, like when you're out there on a board,
especially if it's a nice day and you know, if
it's calm, it's sort of there's something about it. It's
a bit like doing yogurt. It sort of makes you
feel chilled doing it and when you're finished. But maybe what
you're saying is, then you don't even if you're not
a surfer, finding something like that, even if it's going
for a run, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What
(39:47):
is it that you know that you've done in the
past that is sort of semi meditational, and even if
you haven't done something in the past, it does that
for you. What is something that you think you'd like
to do that be meditational? It could be just going
to yoga class, and even if you're shit at it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
It absolutely done.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
I suggest you go and get it on a surfboard
if you've never done it, because there might be that meditation,
especially if you're a certain age you're foll but but doing.
But I think your point, Dave, is that you did
something that you were confident you can knew you could do,
but actually gave you a certain sense of yourself again
you got back into contact with who, Dave is it did?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah? And then and then I guess that was the
series about that.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah it is it is. I guess a couple of
years ago, when I was sort of I was healing
and going through things, I went I went up to
a tiny little island northern Sumatra, and I was up
there for a couple of weeks, and I brought a
couple of cameras up there and I was like, I
had this idea of this.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Show, and I thought, fuck this show, this.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Show, the show that I'm doing, and I had some
ideas and I just set up this Jimmy rig of
two cameras set up and I interviewed myself and it
was probably the most honest thing I've ever done. And
I ran interview with myself and filmed it and it
was stinking hot and I was honest, and I think
I was probably the most honest I've been for a
long time. And answered these questions and.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Who formulated the course? You formulated question?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh yeah, I just sort of did that and just
started talking.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Well, maybe you decide that I'm going to actually talk
to myself and I'm actually going to be honest about it.
That's a pretty unique thing to do.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It was the idea for this show because I figured
if I was going to do a show like this
for men or for people, I had to be honest
with myself and I had to look myself in the
mirror and go, no bullshit, There's no bullshit. And that's
what I think the basis of this is. And I
(41:44):
interviewed myself and sort of came back, came back to
a bit of a shit show back in Sydney and
the year before I'd done you talk about meditation. I'd
done a I'd been gifted a meditation course by my
partner with a Sydney guru, meditation guru, and I came
back and interestingly enough, i'd sort of I'd done the
(42:07):
start of the show, but then i'd sort of moved
away from it, and I went to see him one night.
It's a Monday night. I went to he did an
open meditation on Monday night. We're out the front of there,
and we went to his place in Paddington, and so
he didn't show up, and I was like fuck. Texting,
(42:28):
I'm like, hey, Tim, where what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, he's well known, very well known. Here's a paddy guy. Yeah,
Tim Brown, Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
And it turns out that and next day I went
away and I texted him and he lived next door
to my partner. I they see him every day. The
happiest guy, the best guy in the world. You know,
his positive, positive, positive. It turned out that that night, yeah,
about three meters away from where we were standing, hit
taking his own life.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Wow. I didn't know that, And.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I was like fuck and if that was like a
that jolt of lightning, and I just went, fuck, I've
got to do this. If that guy, if that guy
struggles with it, then everyone else is as well. So
the show was born and I just sort of started
and we kind of started a little bit. I guess
we started a little bit blind and just started talking
(43:15):
to people. But as it's come along now and it's
evolved and the episodes have evolved, this it's become a
real it's become really focused on being able to tell
a story, but I think more so being a positive
influence of how people can get out of it. And look,
(43:39):
at the end of the day, I'm not a mental
health professional. I haven't studied mental health anything. I'm a
filmmaker and I'm not perturbing to be.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
That.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
But what I can do is I can tell people stories.
And if people can take off a little bit of this,
a little bit of that, and then take in a
little bit of what they do, it changes people's lives.
And I've seen it at First Town just from these
first few episodes that we've shot.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
What are there some common themes across say the four,
four or five episodes you've done. Now, there's some common
themes about the individual episodes that others are employing to
get out of the you know, the funk that they're in.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, there's there, there is, and there's I think one
of the most common themes, one of the most common
reasons of of the struggles is isolation, which we touched
on before that that was really interesting of coming across.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
One of them is if you're not socially good anyway
generally speaking, so something like me, like you're not generally
very social, is that that could be a problem for
I think there it can be a problem. But now
there's groups.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
There's a there's a group Buddy of Mind starter group
down in Koyama called the Man Walk, and it's just
guys that get together once twice a week and it's
you turn up, you don't and you walk side by
side and that's no judgments, no judgments. And the biggest thing.
The other thing that I found too is when you're
talking to someone, the best way to talk is next
to them. When you're in that sort of funky space
(45:13):
when you're like this, then you're talking at someone, or
you're having that to and front. When you're side by side,
like in a car or something, or you're walking, then
the conversations flow and it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
With that's interesting, Yeah, with.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
With my buddies with the Man Walk. You know, you
got your down there and on the south coast, and
he's got guys coming in from you know, from rural
areas that don't see people for weeks.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
It's called the Man Walk, the Man Walk, the Man Walk,
and you can look it up.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
You can look it up and there and the man
walks all over the country. There's an episode on on
on him, Mark Burns. He's a fucking legend of what
he's done and how he's built this and it's just
growing expansion. But that's just one of that's just one
of many things that are starting to pop up now
where guys are getting together and know Gin was talking
about placed down at the bra where guys get together
(46:02):
on Friday and do weights and hang out and stuff.
It's breaking down those stigmas and it's getting it's letting
people know that it's okay not to be okay.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yes, So that whole judgment process we feel as because
I think we naturally judge. That's that's an instinct of ours. Yeah, probably,
and probably probably stood by us really well because it's
allowed us, in an evolutionary sense, to survive better than
all the other species because we have the ability to
make judgments, yes, you know, based on how someone looks
or perceptions. Yes, but that's interesting though, where man walk,
(46:40):
et cetera. Yeah, these are non judgmental forums.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
And what's really interesting what you just said that one
of the common denominators is when we sit across from
each other, we tend to be judgmental.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
So if you stand the having a beer with your mate,
it's probably a bit confronting. Chemist if you're just walking
down the robes, we don't really know. Yep, some dude
in the same boat as you, perhaps, Yeah, you just
walk along. Yeah, you don't feel that that sort of
sense of instinctive judgment. He's going to judge me.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's very clever. Yeah, it's actually very clever manipulation. So
to speak of an outcome someone needs to needs to achieve,
which is sort of goes back to what you do
when you're making your films. Yes, you're manipulating a whole
lot of stuff, Yes, to build an outcome. Yes, and
these four five episodes. Would you call this a social
(47:34):
enterprise or it's a business? Own business can be a
social enterprise too.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
By the way, but absolutely, Look, i'd love it to
be I'd love it to be my business for me
to be able to go on and do this and
create hundreds of episodes of doing this because I find
it's I find that I've got I've got a knack
for being able to do that is get these stories
out of people and make them feel comfortable. And I
think that's a really that's a really important part of
(48:00):
what I'm trying to do. And you know, filmmaking can
be as you sort of said, you can manipulate situations
and you can change things and what have you, whereas
this is, this has set out to be very very real,
like it's there's no bullshit, this is this is raw,
and it's got to be really raw. I've got to
bear my soul for them to trust me, to be
(48:21):
able to bear their soul for us. Then to find
out what is their solution, what is their way out
of what are the ways that they're doing it? And
you know, everyone you asked before, what's the common theme?
Everyone's really different, but there is has been one common theme.
And I've just out of these five and some you know,
some of them are very much water people, but water
(48:42):
has been a big one. It's just going for just
getting in the water. You know. I've done a Muslim
friend who lives in a very very small island in
just underneath Banderach, and his whole thing was he's had
a very sick child and he his whole thing was
he just goes in and swims. Now, the guy can
(49:03):
barely swim. And when I say he can barely swim,
he can barely swim. But that's his thing. He can
stop and be in the water and it brings him
the car.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That water would do that to me too, Yeah, because
I love the water, but that would or just being
around the water. That's very interesting that common denominated water.
Where would I mean, obviously these things costs money. You've
got to produce this, Yes, keep doing this on your own.
Where would you be most likely to show this? Is
this a YouTube series?
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Look? I want to That's where I have landed in
wanting to put it on YouTube. There were some early
conversations about going to network television and whatnot. Problem with
doing it down that route is, yeah, we love the idea,
but how about we don't talk about that, and how
about you talk about this, which then becomes an advertising thing.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Then they're trying to sell advertising.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
That's right, and then and then that comes into censorship.
So the whole reason is going to YouTube is you know,
the biggest growing media medium in the world and expanding
every day availability, very simple for everyone to get at.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
There's no barrier of entry, no barrier of.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Entry, and it cuts the cost of me being able
to put them on that.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
So we're not doing film quality either. I mean, you
can do good quality, but you're not. There's no one
saying you've got to shoot on this, and you know,
you can sort of make it a little bit more authentic.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
That's that is true. The problem with coming from film
is there's only one way. There's only one way to
do it, and we do it. We do it right.
So they're all going to look they look pretty mickey Mouse,
but it's but it's definitely definitely a medium. I think
that that can be accessed by a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Because there are There is a show on the ABC
called You Can't Ask That Yes, which has been funded
by the ave been quite successful. I think they've had
a number series. I just did a podcast earlier on
with a guy named Josh Szebs who it's not a film,
but it's it's a podcast. But he runs a series
called you Can't Ask Sorry Uncomfortable Conversations. Yes, very successful,
(51:07):
but that's he's funded as his own podcast series. And yes,
subscribe to a subscription based thing. I can sort of
see something of this being subscribed to by people. Yeah,
you know on YouTube or perhaps even vodcast, you know
where it's not an audio but a video type thing
as well. How we're you up to now in terms
(51:27):
of raising money or raising an interest or whatever whatever
you what's your objective right now?
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Look, the objective is is the ultimate thing for me
would be to get a partner on get a partner, advice,
a funding partner, a partner that can help me out
with the business and financial side of things. Creativity, We've
got it licked, you know. We know, we know what
we're doing, we know how we're going to do it.
The production partner and those sort of things, but having
having someone to back us up and to be doing
(51:53):
all this back end stuff. I'm not that I'm not
that great at it. I've always been a creative. I've
always had a producer that's been doing the money, the
finance person. I've been doing that now for and now
I've been doing this for a long time. It's doing
my head in And we've got I've got meetings with
government next week and we've just got we've just got
(52:14):
taken on by Documentary Australia which gives us a DDR
status for anyone that can do that, anyone that can
don't wants to donate, or companies that want to donate.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
What does that mean like a tax reduction, tax deduction.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, so it makes it a little more It makes
it a little more appealing for investors.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
For investors, you probably what you're probably looking for to though,
is a person who can guide you through that financial
corgmire because you're a creative and not unfortunately you can't
do everything but whils you're creating and producing good quality film,
yes and audio, you probably don't really have the inclination
(52:51):
end all the time to or the qualifications to run
the financing part of it.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I don't. And you know what market's like. It's like
knocking my head against the wall. You know, there's only
so much you can learn on YouTube. It's like with
with whatever you do. You know, if you've if you've
worked in a field for such a long time, it
becomes second nature. It becomes your way of doing things.
Whereas you know you're trying to do this and trying
to call this person do this, it just falls flat
(53:17):
and I feel like I feel like I'm not being
honest in how how that's coming across. So having someone
come on board and someone to mentor to be that
person is, Yeah, that's exactly what we're after.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Well, maybe there's going to be we could have somebody
who actually listens to and or watches this particular episode
around all our episodes who might be of interest to you.
How would someone get in contact with you?
Speaker 2 (53:42):
They could reach out to us on it don't have yet?
Dot tv is our website, yep.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
And there's just dot TV, no dot com, dot U,
just dot TV.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Dot TV.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
You don't yet dot TV and over yet? Is ai
n apostrophe t over yet?
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (53:59):
And dot tv, dot TV And they can find us
also on social media channels.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
What's what's you've got to Instagram? Have yet the same thing.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
On Insta and Facebook? Ye? And they can and they can.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
DM And right now you're looking, are we talking about
large amounts of funding of what we're talking about it.
What's an episode costing.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Episodes costing sort of around forty grand Yeah, an episode,
which for you know, for eighteen fifteen to eighteen minute episode,
it's a it's pretty good. We've got We've I've kept
the cost down for a reason, to be able to
produce a number, to be able to get a good
spread of things out, especially for that first season, to
(54:43):
just show how it lands. And then I think once
it gets that, once it gets.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
A little bit of a roll on and build an audio.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Build an audience, it'll go. The really interesting thing is
is when we launch the teaser, I've had had a
lot of had a heap of feedback from people wanting
to be on the show and mates and guys and stuff,
but a lot of women writing in and texting me saying,
oh my god, this is so good. I had a
brother that this has happened too. This is really great.
And that's been a really interesting turn as well as
(55:14):
the women are really interested in the content as well.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
Women are also much more thoughtful about these things because
for the very reason you need to do this show
in the first place, blokes aren't and yeah, that's the
very reason you need to do it.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Women talk. Guys don't.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, we don't, and unfortunately, particularly older guys, because that's
just not how we're always told. Just keep it at home,
keep it buried. Yeah, and that's what you're saying, I think, David,
is that is the worst possible thing you can do,
worst possible because that all fits into the isolation. This
bit that all fits into I'm going to isolate myself
(55:48):
because I'm ashamed or whatever it is, I'm not going
to tell anyone about it. And over time you've got
no one to talk to about it, and then you
just go down this deephole and then you get lonely,
and people drink for companionship and or take drugs, yes,
and they lose their confidence. So when you get anxiety
when you go into crowd, So what am I going
to do before I got in the crowd, I'm going
to get on the drink or take something before I
go to help me through that process. And then you
(56:10):
get addiction. Processes start to kick in and you think
you can't do it without it, and then you go
down a horrible rabbit hole and which no doubt you
went through. And look, I think from what's really interesting
here is there are a number of business owners who
would be listening to this thing, who could well be
going through exactly the same thing as what you have
(56:32):
gone through. I can tell you now, I know a
lot of people have been through those processes, lots lots,
and the only way out is, like when I went
through these things, it's no YouTube, but is to lean
on somebody else who's actually been through the experience. You
don't want to go to mum or dad. I mean,
it's great if you can, but mum and dad because
my mom and dad probably haven't experienced it. And a
(56:55):
lot of times you want to get your brother, your
sister because they probably haven't experienced it, so they don't
know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
And you think when I was going through it, you
think you're the only one.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
And that's why this shot it's like, oh god, oh
that he's doing that. Oh I'm not the only guy.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
And the great thing in YouTube is a bit of
you interviewing yourself is voyeurism. I can get on YouTube
and no one even knows correct, and then I can
look at it and if it's not episode one, it
might be episode five. The nice small chunks so I'm
not going to have to sit there for an hour
and a half listen to Joe Rogan episode or two
hours or three hours. It's for chunky fifteen twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Fifteen twenty minutes and you know what, and they go
they go quick and it goes, we go deep fast
like it's it's open.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, there's no stuff on a round, there's no.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Stuff straight, there's no bullshit. It's just it's real. It's raw,
and some of it's some it's it's confronting. Some some
things are confronting.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
But it's not about it's just so I'm clear on
this is not just about the being confronted. It's it's
also about a solution.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
I think the biggest the biggest outtake is the solution
is that you can relate to the bad things that
have happened, but also how that taken, how they've come around,
or how they've working or how they are working. You
know a lot of people it's it's working progress.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
I know with me it is that it never stops.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
It never does.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
But with everyone but all of us are working progress.
People think, look, they think you've got to ship together, mate,
fucking every single day it doesn't matter. I have to
give myself an uppercut and just get on with it
and work my way through it and talk to people.
It's why I do this podcasts, by the way, one
of the things I do because I learned something. Every
single time I get reminded of something that I've already learned,
(58:30):
what I've forgotten about, or I'm not employing, We'll make
the best luck. Dave Kleiber. Dave is the owner, producer, director,
and everything at this stage. And you know who's out
there looking for assistance, somebody who wants to join him
as a like minded person for it ain't over yet.
Dot tv if that's his website, you want to go
to have a look at it and the teasers up
there up there good cause it's about time. Good on
(58:55):
your mate, Thanks Mark, I appreciate time. St
Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris Dove Kleiber. Welcome
to the Mental. Mate. I've gotta be careful because I
just did another podcast of straight talk, so I want
to make sure I got you on the right podcast.
This is the Mental.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thanks having me, Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And you're a mate of a made of mine. We
have a good mate in common and he's made huge
recommendations about you. Mate, you have a lot to live
up to here. Maybe let's just kick it off. It
says in the in your bio in my bio that
my guys revenue that you're a director like as in film. Yes,
maybe just give us a bit of an insight into that.
(00:38):
So you know, what is a film director as a
business person? What are you trying to achieve? Or is
it just some passionate some passion thing.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Look, I think if I just might.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Just interrupt, I have just let's live aside your latest
passion project for the moment, just talk about generally, what's
it like being a film director and you work for yourself,
you know, if you're working for Channel nine or something,
what's that like?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Look at changes changes daily? Really, I started off directing
commercials probably about thirty years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Wow, and very differently as an advertising person as in advertising.
But you're working. Were you the advertising person or you
were the person the advertising crew got in to do
the ad?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I was there. I was from the production company that
would come in to direct the commercial, so that I'd
get a script of paper, piece of paper with a
script on it, and we grow that client service, client service,
client face exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Maybe you need maybe be good to I don't even
know if this still exists, but maybe you can explain
how advertising agencies worked twenty thirty years ago. I remember
I dealt with a single to know you'll be maytherep
back in the too early two thousands, I think it
was I was running. It was the boss, or actually
Brussel Tape was the boss, and I don't know what
(02:01):
seeing was doing there, but and they would pitch an ad,
along with a whole lot of other advertising agencies in
those days, and we chose them to do the ad
based on a number of things. And the next thing
I was dealing with a production crew who happened to
be part of the organization.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Right is that it what roughly roughly back in the
day when I first started off, I started as the
as basically the shit kicker, you know, the guy, the
kid that went and got coffee and everything. And back
in the day, the singers and those sort of guys
would have their long lunches on a Friday down at
the wharf or wherever they were and Matchew Velli's Mackew Velly's,
(02:42):
and there'd be phone. The story goes, there used to
be the phone connections underneath the seats of the table,
so there'd be a phone they're sitting there, so they'd
be getting on the drink in the afternoon or a
Friday afternoon. And that's how advertising ran, and a lot
of stuff ran on handshack deals and it was a
really I think it was a really creat time. You know,
you're at the time of your Mojo's.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
You just might explain that Morris Morrison and Mojo was
the name of two guys, guys, two guys names put together,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And they had they had a very famous advertising agency
that that sort of specialized in the classic jingles. Yeah,
you know, you can get it sliding, you can get
it milkyccow. Matter of fact, they've got it now.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, though that was it was a beer brand yeah,
it was. Yeah, And and from those days things things
were really free flowing. There was a there was a
lot of money in the market, so TV commercials, it
wasn't it wasn't wrong to have a million plus on
(03:49):
a thirty second commercial. To spend a million plus. Yeah,
well you're right actually, because I couldn't believe because I
had the wizard business of the day and Kerry Kerry
Packer was my part partner at the time, time that
we need to get one of these agencies to write
an ad for us, and like, but when I got
confronted with the cost, only died. It was like, I
(04:11):
think a thirty second ad that we were going to
run for you know, like just like the September period
when you know, auctions sort of become much more popular
because the winter traditionally in those days when estate would
drop off, and we're a lending company, so you know,
we're trying to advertise into that environment. Was this is
in two thousand, you know, this is the year two thousand,
(04:33):
two hundred and eighty thousand dollars. For me, I just like,
what the hell I mean? It was my first introduction
to that. Actually, I had to an early one. I
had where I funded myself was a mob called Colins
and Crew and it was much too. But when I
got to the big organizations who did everything, oh my god,
and there was no talent. I was the talent less
so to speak. I mean, it wasn't really talent, but
(04:56):
I was the talent, and so we weren't paying for
any talent. It's just a production. That was the biggest
cost was it was like it doesn't exist, say, though
not so much.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
No, It's interesting the expectations still there for these multi
million dollar film shoots, but the budgets have come right down. Advertisers,
you know, with the economy and the stretches that are
inherent with that, the numbers have come right down. And
it's it's a shame too, because creativity creatively, that side
(05:31):
of the business has also sort of diminished a little bit.
A lot of the really great copywriters.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Or the people write the words, people.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Who write the words or come up with the concepts,
that sort of that's gone down as well. And I
think it's just through TV TV production and the lessening
of how all that's sort of come together now.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And because TV is not as you're right, because there's
so many other alternative places to advertise correct Yeah, fast
and quick fast quick. That's where basically give it gives
you class that didn't work, Let's do another one. Because
I was always terrified if this ad doesn't work, I've
sunk a whole lot of do into it and it's
not going to work. That means it's just it's just
(06:12):
lost money. And there was a lot of Therefore, there
was a lot of pressure on the creatives to get
the right messaging, and the messaging usually was as a
result of the right briefing. Yes, but if you didn't know,
say something like me, I'm not a marketing guy or
an advertising guy. In order for me to brief you correctly, yes,
(06:34):
I need to sort of not only understand my marketplace,
because it wasn't the same level of analytics around markets
or your or your customers that we have today what
they like and feed them while they like. There wasn't
that same sort of analytics. It was more like gut reaction.
And at the same time, in order to brief you,
I needed to have a bit of experience with the creative,
(06:55):
because I can't brief a creative if I don't know
anying about creative. How did you used to reconcile that
sort of stuff as the production guy.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Look, we were sort of we were always from the
outside of the agency, so we'd the agency would deal
with someone like you. Then they'd come up with the
concept of the commercial, and then that would then get
briefed out to us. Now, before it got briefed out
to us, a lot of the times that goes into research.
So they spend bunches and bunches of money in research
(07:27):
and putting an idea, and that goes out to people.
They get a whole bunch of people in a room
paying fifty bucks and a cup of coffee, and they
literally have the big say on huge campaigns. And it
was really quite I always found that quite a strange
thing because I don't think it was always necessarily a
great cross section of the community that is giving their feedback.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So and also depend on the questions that God asked. Absolutely,
so you could sort of structure the whole process if
you're the person asking the group of people. So basically
what used to happen, as I recall, is that you
would pay It's just had people one hundred bucks and
a few beers in a pizza or something. Like that,
and there might be twenty people or ten people in
(08:12):
the room come into the room, and then the advertising
agency who's won the pitch with the messaging yes, tries
the messaging out onto the people in the room, and
a couple of storyboards yep, a couple story boards yep.
And long time, a lot of times they used to
get filmed and recorded correct, and you would try to
(08:35):
sort of test out your messaging idea with all the
people in the room. And I wanted to myself, well, hang,
how do I know that this is a good cross
section of the community is going to listen to me?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I never understood it.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Did you ever think to yourself sometimes when they gave
you the brief ready to produce direct, because you were
to direct the characters or the talent that has been
chosen for the ad. You used to think yourself, these
guys got it wrong. Did you just reflect the litters?
You just say, no, that's my job. I'm just going
to produce something looks good, sounds good.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh look. The politically correct thing to say was no,
they were always right, But the reality was yeah, fuck
all the time, inc script.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And you'd just be like, what this is?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
This is crazy, and then you try and fix it,
you or you're trying to all the time. Absolutely, absolutely,
you'd always sort of do a take for you know,
I'd always do a take for the script, So the
one for the script, straight off the script to the
client and then you go, okay, cool, Hey how about
we try this. I'll go to the actor and say, hey,
let's just do something a little bit different. You know,
(09:38):
sometimes it falls flat on its ass. But then sometimes
the creative the agency will go, oh my god, that's
that's fantastical. The client's just like, oh, that's that's the
best thing. And you learn you learn tactics too in that,
you know, in those years of I remember an old
director told me, told me a bit of information. Once
that's stayed with me. It's put your idea into the
(10:01):
client's head and get them to tell it to you.
That's the art.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
So again, who's the client though in this case, so the.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Client would be the client would be you for the
one spending money, but the one spending money. So if
you get in there and you sort of talk and
you do your dad.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Because I would turn up to the ad my organization
with someone from organization would always turn up to the
ad whether I was in it or not, because they're watching.
It's just so the audience knows. Is so, so you're
the director, yes, you would say, oh, there's the client,
there's wizards, the clients or yellow brick road. I'm going
to get over and have a talk to this dude. Yeah,
(10:37):
and knowing already what the brief is, knowing already what
sort of messaging they're trying to they're going to because
you've got the script in front of you, which is
usually written by them, so you're thinking to yourself, I
might actually give this dude an alternative.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You've got to be real careful because you know you
don't want to step on the agency and undermine them.
But at the same time, you've you've probably met you've
probably all met before in a pre production meeting, so
you've you've broken that bit of ice. And usually I
always like the way that I work, which is different
than all other you know, different directors work different ways.
But the way I really like to work was as
a collaboration and always have my ideas working with the creative,
(11:18):
the agency creatives ideas, so then you're all working together
to come up with the best possible solution and the
best possible.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Outcome for an ad.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Sometimes they you know, sometimes you hit them out of
the park and you you know, you've short walking a
handshake in the French riviera, and sometimes yeah, you get
panned by your peers.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
And what did you learn that? What did you learn
in that environment? How many years you spend in that environment?
Far out it's probably a good twenty five years, best
part of your career, best part of my career. Yeah,
and what are the learnings from that that you've taken
into what you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
You know, what you learn to be resilient. It's it's
a really tough industry because it's you know, I liking
it to acting or something like that, where you get
a script. It's not just your you're getting the script.
There's three other directors getting the script as well. You're
getting paid to do the pitch. And then you've got
to put together this document called a treatment, which is
(12:17):
thirty pages of words and pictures, and it becomes a
creative writing exercise, even more so than.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
The actual.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Execution of a of the pictures. So you've got to
go through that whole process and then you you know,
you work for you can work for weeks on a
pitch and then they just go, you know, sorry, you.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Can get the other guy got it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
The other guy got it, and he's like, fuck, okay, next, next, next, next,
and it's got And nowadays it's got harder and harder
because a lot of overseas directors. You know, there's a
lot of work in America obviously with what's going on
over there now, a lot of the expat Aussies are
coming back here and so these commercials that are becoming
less or less have got more people's hands going up.
(12:57):
I'm ready to do it, so you can get a
you know, the better part of a Hollywood direct attic series, Yeah,
to do it. Beer out fuck, yeah, it has all
the time.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, especially beer ads because they paid, especially beert and
or gambling ads. Yep, they play, they play well, pay.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Well, they're in. They're in the big thing now. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So what did you do post directing?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, I haven't really stopped directing.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I've still been advertising.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So post advertising, I'm still I've still got one toe
in the water with advertising, and I still really enjoy it.
I really enjoyed the people and the camaraderie and the
group you know, with the cruise and what have you.
A couple of years ago I got asked to do
a documentary on the world's fastest ocean racing yachts Comanche
(13:47):
Wild Height's eleven, which as an Australian ye and it
sort of turned into it started as a bit of
a it was going to be a series like a
Drive to Survive, and it turned into a featured documentary
and it's now turned into a little bit of a
family story. In the tragedy from the City to Hobat
of nineteen ninety eight, we've just.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Finished that, and then you've just finished that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
We've just finished it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Is that the one where John Dean passed away?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
They never just they never found his body because he
was what boat was he? And do you remember yeah,
Winston Churchill, mister Churchill and John's had two sons, correct,
Peter Nathan and Peter. Nathan and Peter yep, And I
remember Nathan quite well. Peter was much younger, but Nathan
(14:38):
would have been like eighteen or something around that age.
His documentary is all about them. Oh really, yeah, Oh
that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah. And John Winner, you know John Winning.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I know John Winning well and John's from Comanche.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Correct, he bought it. So that's the story of how
they got the boat, and then they brought it back
and then yeah, and then the story of them.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Bringing the boys, Young John winning of course yep. Herman, yes, herman, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes, yeah, yeah, as opposed to Woody mate.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, my neighbor actually yeah right, he grew up Aross
the road for me, yeah right, yeah, yeah, and he's
not they the family doesn't know that house anymore but done.
They sold him for some years ago. But yeah, yeah,
and actually he's been on my podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it has been on the podcast That's Mad. So but
you were you sailor.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I've been a sailor before, Like I wasn't not a
competitive sailor in that realm, and that was quite interesting
because I got I pretty much got thrust straight into
the sailing world. And if you know the sailor Fraturn,
it's pretty closed up book and trying to deal with
and interviewing people, you know, like Ian Murray, who's an
incredible bloke, but all they're trying to get a story
(15:45):
out of her mate. It was shut It was a
shut shot.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Murray was from Straight to which won the Sydney Order
defended City have but I defended the America's Curry's Cup.
Did infend it, will win it?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I can't remember now he defended He've defended over in Fremantle,
over in w a too much fanfare, but I was there.
That was fall on and he's just the story. So
he's got unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So In became a boat builder for a while there
he did.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He's got his fingers in everything.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
In fact, I brought a boat from him many many years.
Agoor my son did, one of my sons did. He
was good? He was so Who was the guy produced
to wing kill?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Ben LExEN?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Ben LExEN, he's been les alive? No, No, he's passedway Okay.
Murray and Ben LExEN were and were sort of collaborators
in relation to the defense. Yes, and and I soon
recall that there was a well known guy, one of
Bonds guys. He was a chairman of Bond Corporation actually
(16:47):
for a while, and he was a really fit guy.
I can't he was the whatever the captain of the
boats called. Anyway, he's past away. But so is this stuff,
any of this stuff in your documentary?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah? Yeah, all little bits of pass as soon as
I started talking to them, and as soon as they,
I guess accepted me and Timmy who you met, we
did that together, and as soon as they accepted us,
the doors just opened. I became very close with with
Woody Winning and his beautiful wife, Kerry John and those
(17:20):
guys and the Dean family and their mother. I was
a beautiful, beautiful woman, and the stories just came out,
and it became a really natural. The story became really
natural to us, and it became really apparent of what
needed to be done and how we and how we went.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
What year we're talking about now.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
So this was twenty twenty two was when we started shooting.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
What year we talking about? When the when the tragedy
happened ninety eight? Yeah, because I remember where I was
when I heard the news. I was down at Watson's Bay,
and I was just looking across at the VYC, the
Vocalo Yocht Club where the two boys were members of
and they were avid young sailors. Absolutely, the two boys,
(18:07):
and one of them might have just left school was Nathan,
and either just left school might have been still in
year twelve. And I remember because I knew the family
quite well I knew John very well, and but more
more because our kids were mates. And the shock of
it all was like horrific and I and I mean,
(18:28):
I'm gonna when is that really sad?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Literally, we've literally finished the last couple of weeks. It's
just gone over to Venice Film to get see if
it we'll get into the Venice Film Festival.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Wow? And where will it be shown? Do you think TBC?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
That's it? All sort of depends on distribution and at
those sort of stages.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Now, so you directed this, I did? Wow?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And how did you get chosen to do this or
how did that happen?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You know what? It was a bit of a you
know that we talk on the on the thing of
a perfect storm that was very similar to that. I
was away. I was actually having Fiji and buddy of
mine who's grew up with Herman. Herman called him and said, hey, listen,
we're going to buy this. I think we're going to
get this boat. Do you guys want to film do something?
And then I sort of had this idea, why don't
(19:12):
we do it? Like a drive to survive? And it
evolved from there and it just grew and grew and grew.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And it sort of documents the period which the Winning
family owned the boat and correct the stuff that happened
before to that. Yes, yes, that's very interesting. So Herman's
the family decided to basically document the whole period.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, we documented the whole We spent Yeah, I
spent the better part of a year following him around
and meeting the wild and wooly people of the Australian
yacht seen and international yacht scene actually because they had
a lot of overseas crew on board and they fascinating,
fascinating people and great you know, I've made friends.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
For life, very generous people. And actually for those people
don't know, the Winning family owned Winning Suppliances, but John,
the youngest son or the son who's probably close to
forty I guess maybe a little bit more than forty,
is the owner and the person behind appliance Is Online,
(20:16):
which is like probably one of the fastest growing definitely
was at the time a few years ago with definitely
one of the fastest growing online businesses in the country,
and they've done brilliantly. I don't do John has deliving Astralia.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, Yron some reason, he zips in and out.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, he's got that. I know he's got the person place. Yeah.
So and and and what's your connect to with Gingel?
So I'm are you a Byron boy?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I'm a bond boy.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
He's a Bond boy too.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Okay, how much younger than him? Though a little bit? No, Well,
I'm going to tell you look younger than Ginge.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm younger than gin By. Yeah by probably less than
ten years.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
But yeah, younger years older, interviewed him. I interviewed him
this week, did you. Yeah, Yeah, we did an interview.
No one's interview gins before. So I did a and
We're Ill had a film and so it was sort
of a off camera type thing, but I interviewed in
front of a live audience. Yeah, is that right? And
it was amazing, Like it went for two hours, nearly
just on the two hours was live audience, small li
(21:19):
live audience, and he was amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
But the stories he has had to tell and about
his own life and careers, and it was just amazing.
It was but I knew most of it anyway, mainly
because I'd be a maze for a long long time.
But the audience loved it. It was just they were gobsmacked.
We're just sitting there. So what's your connection with Gas
Apart from being BONDI boy.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
My connection with Gins is I was. I grew up
with Jodie Mees. It was like a sister to me.
He's a sister to me. So when when she hooked
up with James and got married and got married, that
all sort of came together. And then I bet sort
(22:07):
of really connected then with Ginge at those sort of stages,
in the early stages of that and knowing him from
down the beach to surfing.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And we're still borrotting board. You can still get up
all right back yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so back, So you know it's work
in progress.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, as it always is.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It is.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Eventually I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, I want to try and get through till at
least seventy five.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Seventy five, mate, that's not far off where I am
so so David, then you, of course you are. You
were one of the first film filmmakers to adopt and
piney a custom built three sixty degree via virtual reality
rig and you did something quite amazing which had huge
number of views. You put yourself well, I don't know
how best to describe is but you produced your using
(23:01):
virtual reality inside of the tube.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, it was. It wasn't me surfing it, it was
with So we.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Explained that process. We have fifty million views or something
crazy thing.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
That's something like that. Yeah. Yeah, So we we were
real early adapters of VR tech, which coming from the
advertising world, we were sort of in there. So we
were picked up by Samsung, Google, Facebook, a lot of
where we were sort of the go to people. So
we would bot production for production for production, So we
(23:35):
build our equipment using v our equipment, and we it
was real early stages, so we'd be building all this
stuff and testing it and seeing how it works. And
we had I teamed up one of our directors, Taylor Steele,
who's very famous surf filmmaker, and we had the idea
we wanted to film inside the barrel three sixty. So
put the goggles on and look around.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
But you're filming Actually what the goggles were seing were
showing me.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, so you're filming insights. So we had a camera
mount off off the surfers. Well.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
C J.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Hobgood was a surfer old ex world champion champion bloke,
and we had a camera. It was at that stage
the cameras were a big, big ball thing, and we
had this rig rig that came did that attached to him,
which we tested. We did test over in Fiji once
with Kelly Slater when Kelly's going for a world title,
like two things before the end, and Kelly wiped out
(24:28):
and we went up breaking his toe. So that wasn't
so we're pretty popular there. But anyway, CJ so first
year filmed the.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Film inside the tube yes on this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yes with J Yes Yeah, and that got there and
we ended up getting the shot and that that then
became a story that then went onto YouTube and now yeah,
it's sort of fifty million. But I think the thing
that we were really most proud of is we got
to film the Great White Sharks down in South Australia.
We'd filmed all day, it was all pretty good and
(25:02):
I found this massive metal pole on the side of
the boat and we found and I had this metal
wire with us and we basically built a fishing rig
with a VR camera and flicked it off at the
end of the day and the guys brought.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
The sharks around with a bit of burly.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
A bit of burly and this twenty foot great white
comes in, swims around the camera and comes and eats
the camera, and I'm holding on the pole and I'm
going it's got a spit it and starts pulling off
the button. I'm not going to fucking let go. And
I've got the grip diving and grabbing my ankles and
I'm on the side of the boat.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
And then all of a sudden, here they go.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
The camera comes out. It's all scratched and broken, but
we pulled all the cards in and this has never
really been shown because it was sort of before the
full adaption of it boat.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, you get did you get into his mouth?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Inside the mouth? So you actually get eaten by a
great white shark and you can look out and look
out its mouth and the teeth. Anyway, Yeah, it's been
what's been. It was owned by someone else. I'm just
sort of in the midst of finding out whether what
we can do with it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
But you're on you're on board. Someone else commissioned it,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Correct, But who aren't who aren't in the space anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So, Yeah, but if they're interested in sort of releasing it.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Too, we'll say that's something it's something that's definitely the
thing that's interestingly enough talking to Gingja about it the.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Other week, given that they will probably already know that
you've already had fifty million views on something else you've done.
They probably think they're probably counting on there both hands.
How much can we ask for? But it could be
royalty based. You could do some royalty yeah, because I
mean at fifty million views, I presume someone like YouTube,
it's on Youtubeeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, it's not. It's not on it's not really on it.
It's not really living anyway.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
No, No, I mean that. I mean that the surfing one.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yes, yes, that's YouTube.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I mean you get paid from YouTube for doing that.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I don't so that was commissioned for the WSLF for
the World Surf Week, right, and that's their thing. So
fifty million views, that's that's pretty healthy. I know the
returns on YouTube because it's somebody that's that I'm working
at the moment. Someone's getting paid.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, that's very interesting. You have a bit of a
backstory though, you and you're you're you're actually now producing
or you've produced a new show a series which you're
trying to get film financed correct.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You just tell us the name of the film.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So it's called You Don't Yet is a is a series.
It's a series on Yet Yet, Yeah, series on men's
mental health. Basically, it's a an episodic series where each
episode we sit down with a with a different guy
and go through their story and it's about their struggles
(27:39):
or related struggles, but also how they overcome it. And
I think that's the.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Not just doing glooms.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
No, it's it's it's it's not doing a gloom. It's
about it's about men relating to it. And I think
that's the whole premise of this idea sort of came
from a place of men being able to relate to
something thing and then see a way ways in which
to get out, rather than how it's been done up
(28:06):
until till now. It's you'll be right, mate.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Go and have a beer and suck it up or
get over it.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Get over it? Yeah, fuck, don't worry about it. You're fine.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Can you just explain to me maybe as to why
you did that? What? What? What? What was the lead up to
that for you?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So look, I think the leading is eight to ten
years ago I had you know, I was married, houses
had a big boat. Everything outline from the outside looked
fucking rosy, you know, breaking it in, But on the
inside it was completely different.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
You know. It was a really inside your head, inside.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
The inside, inside my head, inside the relationship I was
really I wasn't a really bad it was a bad marriage.
It wasn't. It was pretty toxic, and I guess it
sort of took away. I sort of felt like it
took away all of my confidence and I sort of
just regressed and that at the time. At the time,
and then as that was happening, the whole VR world,
(29:12):
which we'd heavily gone into that sort of went away.
Samsung had jumped out of the It just never took on,
and I thought we put all our you know, we
put all our chips on black, and it flipped your head.
So then I lost my company and I was.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Just like fuck. As it was during the marriage or
as a result of the marriage, it was sort of.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
During It was almost concurrent. It wasn't because of or
anything like that. It was just concurrent at the time,
and I was just it just seemed like one of
those perfect storms where everything just came in and the
rug just got pulled out from under me.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
And then you know you're talking about the divorce being
part of the road being pulled from under you.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Divorce divorces another looked separations, separations always had got you know,
I've got three kids and that's always you know, it's
always really difficult balancing that. But also the divorce was
horrible and dragged on for many.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Years, paying the expensive Fuck it's the away. But you know,
can you believe that it's a government has set it up?
I mean as Lionel Murphy who brought in that changed
the Matrimonal Courses Act and brought in the New Family
Law Act back in the seventy something rather and he's
the A Party Attorney General. But it's it's not just
(30:26):
on men or it's like it's an atrocious process.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
The thing is fucking broken, Yes it is. It is
really everyone, for everyone. The lawyers, that's the only people
that they put their hand up.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And it's just like so you get opposing lawyers for
a start, I mean, you get one, she gets one
or she gets one. You get one because you have
to because you don't know what the is going on.
And they are charged like wounded bulls. Correct, They the
opposition immediately distrusts you. You're the world's worst person. Like absolutely,
that's just the position that put you. They can be
(31:01):
a friend of yours today and the day they get appointed,
you are the world's worst person. I mean literally, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then then it becomes very expensive. It just gets
racked up, and it's racked up and it's racked up,
and you're going, fuck, this is all going to come
out of both our our pockets.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Correct, Yeah, and you lose and look at the end
of at the end of my thing, I walked away
with nothing. And you know, it's just it's such a
sad thing because it's a reflection of It's a reflection
of society today, I think is a bigger picture. And look, I'm.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
It's traumatizing very much so, especially if you're a business person,
like you're in business, yeah, trying to let's just put
aside for a moment, for the moment that VR I
wouldn't say tanked. It just didn't become the thing everyone
expected to become. In fact, in fact, I was one
of those ones expected to become something too. But just
(31:55):
put out aside. You're own business person dealing with business issues.
Every day trying to win jobs, to compete and be
competitive on jobs. You're trying to keep your staff or
the people that you know in your game, the people
who subcontract to you. You're trying to keep them you know, available,
you know, and happy and feeling like they're engaged because
you know, if you lose them, you're very able to
get them back, and then you can't fill the next job,
(32:16):
you can't price. So you're running a business and then
you get in front of with this fucking legal mindfield
and also an ethical mindfield too. Everything gets about kids.
The person who you know, at one stage in your
life you loved now becomes public in any number one,
and everybody then gets pushed into accusations, et cetera, because
(32:39):
it becomes a blame game. So the whole family law
structure is about who's to blame. Yes, yeah, and that's
that's the seventies thing. It's like, yeah, it's a seventies
thing because that's where the legislation was conceived in the seventies,
which is fair, but today, you know, twenty five fifty
(33:00):
years later, it's all bullshit. Look, we're not getting on.
We've grown apart. There's a few issues. You know, it's
not about blame. I did this, you did that. You know,
who came first doesn't really fucking matter. The kids are
the most boarding. Let's look after them, and let's, by
the way, whatever we build up in terms of dollars,
let's preserve and let these motherfuckers go in there and
(33:22):
take from us as lawyers and judges and everybody else
sing there in judgment of you and documents and agreements
like somehow you've I get it, some people, women especially,
we're getting rauded under the old system. I get that bit.
But today we don't need to act this way. I mean,
because most I think most people are fairly responsible. There
are occasions with a movie doesn't need to go to
(33:43):
an arbitrator, but generally speaking, the whole thing is fashioned
to destroy.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You totally and not just and it's not just guys
as well, it's the women with with my situation, no
one walked away, No I just walked We just walked away.
We walked away millions of dollars, you know, nearly a
million bucks less, and it's just like, what the fuck for?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I don't, yeah anyway, and that.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Just did that give you mental health problems?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
You think that pushed me over the edge. Yeah, look
what happened. I got to the end of that and
it was just lost business. I lost everything.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I was like, why would you lose the Why did
you lose the business?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I think at the same at that time, we'd gone
so heavily, we heavily invested in this VR world, and
that wasn't reaping the returns. Trying to jump back into
the advertising world wasn't as easy because things had things
had sort of gone backwards, and I guess my from
my point of view, my confidence was just shot. Like
I was just I was literally on edge. I started
(34:45):
seeing a therapist and she was like, You've got the
worst pts to I've ever seen, and I was that
was fully traumatized. Yeah, so it took so I sort
of got into a just sort of got into that
hole and that classic hole too.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
How do you get out of it? Booze, drugs, what ever?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Just escape? That was the That was the big thing.
And it's and you just get you get more and
more into yourself, and then you withdraw yourself from your mates,
you enjoy yourself and you're just in that quiet thing
and it's just and you start having the dark the
dark times and everyone you know that everyone speaks about.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Did you get sodal thoughts?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Look, I probably got pretty close to there once or twice.
But I'm really lucky. I've got a great group of
friends that were there for me, and I met someone
new a little while after, and she has been an
absolute beacon in my life of getting me out of
(35:40):
that and just getting just starting the road two. You say,
to the road to redemption, but it's it's sort of
just the road out to be able to get out
and feel normal again. And I think one of the
biggest things for me, and one of the biggest things
I've learned from from the series is is isolation is
(36:03):
probably the worst, the worst thing with mental illness.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Or why do you think we isolated? We're embarrassed?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think probably for me it was probably, Yeah, I'm embarrassed.
You don't you know you have so much success and
then that's taken away from you, So it.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Was your main embarrassment, I'm no longer successful on my
failure was your embarrassment, I'm getting divorced, I'm a failure
as a husband or a father.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I think I think it was probably a little bit
of column, a little bit of Columbae.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yep. You know I tried.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You know, I tried really hard with both. But then
you sort of it felt like everything was sort of
weighing up on me, and the more I tried to
swim against the current, the current got stronger, if that
makes sense. And then it got to a point where
it was just like, fuck, do I just get out
of this? And then one day I was just like
(36:55):
I looked out at the balcony and I was looked
down the beach and there was a little way and
I just went, fuck, I've got to get out of it. Yeah,
at the time, I probably did. For yeah, I did.
For a few months. You just you stop everything because
you lose It's almost like you lose a party yourself,
you know, when you're in.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That, you lose your soul.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, and then I just did the one little thing
and it's I was just saying to Timmy before, the
hardest part when you're in that headspace and you're in
that thing, is the first step out. And that's what
I'm trying to show with this series is there's all
different everyone's got a different story, everyone's going through a
different hardship. But everyone's got a different way of getting out,
(37:37):
and maybe one person sees it goes, oh, I can
relate to that, or that guy's going through that and
he does that. Fuck, maybe I could try just going
for a walk, or maybe I could try jumping in
the water in winter, or maybe I can try this
or that. That's what the whole the.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Whole process does each episode do? They have how many episodes?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
So I've got I've sort of arted shooting the first four.
I sort of this. I just want to keep going
on and on because it's interesting. Since launching the promo,
I've had so many people reach out to me friends
and the promos released, promos released, Yeah, promos on YouTube,
they can find that it ain't over yet.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Dot tv it ain't over yet.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Dot tv tv is our is our website.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
They can go on there and they can jump on
and they can click onto the promo. They can have
a look at that. And we're just in the stages
now finishing. I've got a few episodes that I'm in
the that are in the works. And as you've got
you've got four, I've got five. I've got five in
the works at the moment.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Five shot five filmed.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, and I've funded all that myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, I just go back a set. No, no, it's okay,
just go back a set. So it's interesting, you know,
when you're in a hole in business and then something
happens is generally speaking, what does happen, as it happens
in relation to your personal relationships as well, somehow sort
of happened at the same time, happened at the same time,
(39:08):
and then, as you said, you withdraw. But what's interesting
about what you said is you just had something that
drew you back into the water. And for surfers and
for those people who don't know, surfing is sort of meditational.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I mean, like when you're out there on a board,
especially if it's a nice day and you know, if
it's calm, it's sort of there's something about it. It's
a bit like doing yogurt. It sort of makes you
feel chilled doing it and when you're finished. But maybe what
you're saying is, then you don't even if you're not
a surfer, finding something like that, even if it's going
for a run, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What
(39:47):
is it that you know that you've done in the
past that is sort of semi meditational, and even if
you haven't done something in the past, it does that
for you. What is something that you think you'd like
to do that be meditational? It could be just going
to yoga class, and even if you're shit at it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
It absolutely done.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
I suggest you go and get it on a surfboard
if you've never done it, because there might be that meditation,
especially if you're a certain age you're foll but but doing.
But I think your point, Dave, is that you did
something that you were confident you can knew you could do,
but actually gave you a certain sense of yourself again
you got back into contact with who, Dave is it did?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah? And then and then I guess that was the
series about that.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah it is it is. I guess a couple of
years ago, when I was sort of I was healing
and going through things, I went I went up to
a tiny little island northern Sumatra, and I was up
there for a couple of weeks, and I brought a
couple of cameras up there and I was like, I
had this idea of this.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Show, and I thought, fuck this show, this.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Show, the show that I'm doing, and I had some
ideas and I just set up this Jimmy rig of
two cameras set up and I interviewed myself and it
was probably the most honest thing I've ever done. And
I ran interview with myself and filmed it and it
was stinking hot and I was honest, and I think
I was probably the most honest I've been for a
long time. And answered these questions and.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Who formulated the course? You formulated question?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh yeah, I just sort of did that and just
started talking.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Well, maybe you decide that I'm going to actually talk
to myself and I'm actually going to be honest about it.
That's a pretty unique thing to do.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It was the idea for this show because I figured
if I was going to do a show like this
for men or for people, I had to be honest
with myself and I had to look myself in the
mirror and go, no bullshit, There's no bullshit. And that's
what I think the basis of this is. And I
(41:44):
interviewed myself and sort of came back, came back to
a bit of a shit show back in Sydney and
the year before I'd done you talk about meditation. I'd
done a I'd been gifted a meditation course by my
partner with a Sydney guru, meditation guru, and I came
back and interestingly enough, i'd sort of I'd done the
(42:07):
start of the show, but then i'd sort of moved
away from it, and I went to see him one night.
It's a Monday night. I went to he did an
open meditation on Monday night. We're out the front of there,
and we went to his place in Paddington, and so
he didn't show up, and I was like fuck. Texting,
(42:28):
I'm like, hey, Tim, where what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, he's well known, very well known. Here's a paddy guy. Yeah,
Tim Brown, Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
And it turns out that and next day I went
away and I texted him and he lived next door
to my partner. I they see him every day. The
happiest guy, the best guy in the world. You know,
his positive, positive, positive. It turned out that that night, yeah,
about three meters away from where we were standing, hit
taking his own life.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Wow. I didn't know that, And.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I was like fuck and if that was like a
that jolt of lightning, and I just went, fuck, I've
got to do this. If that guy, if that guy
struggles with it, then everyone else is as well. So
the show was born and I just sort of started
and we kind of started a little bit. I guess
we started a little bit blind and just started talking
(43:15):
to people. But as it's come along now and it's
evolved and the episodes have evolved, this it's become a
real it's become really focused on being able to tell
a story, but I think more so being a positive
influence of how people can get out of it. And look,
(43:39):
at the end of the day, I'm not a mental
health professional. I haven't studied mental health anything. I'm a
filmmaker and I'm not perturbing to be.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
That.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
But what I can do is I can tell people stories.
And if people can take off a little bit of this,
a little bit of that, and then take in a
little bit of what they do, it changes people's lives.
And I've seen it at First Town just from these
first few episodes that we've shot.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
What are there some common themes across say the four,
four or five episodes you've done. Now, there's some common
themes about the individual episodes that others are employing to
get out of the you know, the funk that they're in.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, there's there, there is, and there's I think one
of the most common themes, one of the most common
reasons of of the struggles is isolation, which we touched
on before that that was really interesting of coming across.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
One of them is if you're not socially good anyway
generally speaking, so something like me, like you're not generally
very social, is that that could be a problem for
I think there it can be a problem. But now
there's groups.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
There's a there's a group Buddy of Mind starter group
down in Koyama called the Man Walk, and it's just
guys that get together once twice a week and it's
you turn up, you don't and you walk side by
side and that's no judgments, no judgments. And the biggest thing.
The other thing that I found too is when you're
talking to someone, the best way to talk is next
to them. When you're in that sort of funky space
(45:13):
when you're like this, then you're talking at someone, or
you're having that to and front. When you're side by side,
like in a car or something, or you're walking, then
the conversations flow and it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
With that's interesting, Yeah, with.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
With my buddies with the Man Walk. You know, you
got your down there and on the south coast, and
he's got guys coming in from you know, from rural
areas that don't see people for weeks.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
It's called the Man Walk, the Man Walk, the Man Walk,
and you can look it up.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
You can look it up and there and the man
walks all over the country. There's an episode on on
on him, Mark Burns. He's a fucking legend of what
he's done and how he's built this and it's just
growing expansion. But that's just one of that's just one
of many things that are starting to pop up now
where guys are getting together and know Gin was talking
about placed down at the bra where guys get together
(46:02):
on Friday and do weights and hang out and stuff.
It's breaking down those stigmas and it's getting it's letting
people know that it's okay not to be okay.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yes, So that whole judgment process we feel as because
I think we naturally judge. That's that's an instinct of ours. Yeah, probably,
and probably probably stood by us really well because it's
allowed us, in an evolutionary sense, to survive better than
all the other species because we have the ability to
make judgments, yes, you know, based on how someone looks
or perceptions. Yes, but that's interesting though, where man walk,
(46:40):
et cetera. Yeah, these are non judgmental forums.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
And what's really interesting what you just said that one
of the common denominators is when we sit across from
each other, we tend to be judgmental.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
So if you stand the having a beer with your mate,
it's probably a bit confronting. Chemist if you're just walking
down the robes, we don't really know. Yep, some dude
in the same boat as you, perhaps, Yeah, you just
walk along. Yeah, you don't feel that that sort of
sense of instinctive judgment. He's going to judge me.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's very clever. Yeah, it's actually very clever manipulation. So
to speak of an outcome someone needs to needs to achieve,
which is sort of goes back to what you do
when you're making your films. Yes, you're manipulating a whole
lot of stuff, Yes, to build an outcome. Yes, and
these four five episodes. Would you call this a social
(47:34):
enterprise or it's a business? Own business can be a
social enterprise too.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
By the way, but absolutely, Look, i'd love it to
be I'd love it to be my business for me
to be able to go on and do this and
create hundreds of episodes of doing this because I find
it's I find that I've got I've got a knack
for being able to do that is get these stories
out of people and make them feel comfortable. And I
think that's a really that's a really important part of
(48:00):
what I'm trying to do. And you know, filmmaking can
be as you sort of said, you can manipulate situations
and you can change things and what have you, whereas
this is, this has set out to be very very real,
like it's there's no bullshit, this is this is raw,
and it's got to be really raw. I've got to
bear my soul for them to trust me, to be
(48:21):
able to bear their soul for us. Then to find
out what is their solution, what is their way out
of what are the ways that they're doing it? And
you know, everyone you asked before, what's the common theme?
Everyone's really different, but there is has been one common theme.
And I've just out of these five and some you know,
some of them are very much water people, but water
(48:42):
has been a big one. It's just going for just
getting in the water. You know. I've done a Muslim
friend who lives in a very very small island in
just underneath Banderach, and his whole thing was he's had
a very sick child and he his whole thing was
he just goes in and swims. Now, the guy can
(49:03):
barely swim. And when I say he can barely swim,
he can barely swim. But that's his thing. He can
stop and be in the water and it brings him
the car.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That water would do that to me too, Yeah, because
I love the water, but that would or just being
around the water. That's very interesting that common denominated water.
Where would I mean, obviously these things costs money. You've
got to produce this, Yes, keep doing this on your own.
Where would you be most likely to show this? Is
this a YouTube series?
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Look? I want to That's where I have landed in
wanting to put it on YouTube. There were some early
conversations about going to network television and whatnot. Problem with
doing it down that route is, yeah, we love the idea,
but how about we don't talk about that, and how
about you talk about this, which then becomes an advertising thing.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Then they're trying to sell advertising.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
That's right, and then and then that comes into censorship.
So the whole reason is going to YouTube is you know,
the biggest growing media medium in the world and expanding
every day availability, very simple for everyone to get at.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
There's no barrier of entry, no barrier of.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Entry, and it cuts the cost of me being able
to put them on that.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
So we're not doing film quality either. I mean, you
can do good quality, but you're not. There's no one
saying you've got to shoot on this, and you know,
you can sort of make it a little bit more authentic.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
That's that is true. The problem with coming from film
is there's only one way. There's only one way to
do it, and we do it. We do it right.
So they're all going to look they look pretty mickey Mouse,
but it's but it's definitely definitely a medium. I think
that that can be accessed by a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Because there are There is a show on the ABC
called You Can't Ask That Yes, which has been funded
by the ave been quite successful. I think they've had
a number series. I just did a podcast earlier on
with a guy named Josh Szebs who it's not a film,
but it's it's a podcast. But he runs a series
called you Can't Ask Sorry Uncomfortable Conversations. Yes, very successful,
(51:07):
but that's he's funded as his own podcast series. And yes,
subscribe to a subscription based thing. I can sort of
see something of this being subscribed to by people. Yeah,
you know on YouTube or perhaps even vodcast, you know
where it's not an audio but a video type thing
as well. How we're you up to now in terms
(51:27):
of raising money or raising an interest or whatever whatever
you what's your objective right now?
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Look, the objective is is the ultimate thing for me
would be to get a partner on get a partner, advice,
a funding partner, a partner that can help me out
with the business and financial side of things. Creativity, We've
got it licked, you know. We know, we know what
we're doing, we know how we're going to do it.
The production partner and those sort of things, but having
having someone to back us up and to be doing
(51:53):
all this back end stuff. I'm not that I'm not
that great at it. I've always been a creative. I've
always had a producer that's been doing the money, the
finance person. I've been doing that now for and now
I've been doing this for a long time. It's doing
my head in And we've got I've got meetings with
government next week and we've just got we've just got
(52:14):
taken on by Documentary Australia which gives us a DDR
status for anyone that can do that, anyone that can
don't wants to donate, or companies that want to donate.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
What does that mean like a tax reduction, tax deduction.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, so it makes it a little more It makes
it a little more appealing for investors.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
For investors, you probably what you're probably looking for to though,
is a person who can guide you through that financial
corgmire because you're a creative and not unfortunately you can't
do everything but whils you're creating and producing good quality film,
yes and audio, you probably don't really have the inclination
(52:51):
end all the time to or the qualifications to run
the financing part of it.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I don't. And you know what market's like. It's like
knocking my head against the wall. You know, there's only
so much you can learn on YouTube. It's like with
with whatever you do. You know, if you've if you've
worked in a field for such a long time, it
becomes second nature. It becomes your way of doing things.
Whereas you know you're trying to do this and trying
to call this person do this, it just falls flat
(53:17):
and I feel like I feel like I'm not being
honest in how how that's coming across. So having someone
come on board and someone to mentor to be that
person is, Yeah, that's exactly what we're after.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Well, maybe there's going to be we could have somebody
who actually listens to and or watches this particular episode
around all our episodes who might be of interest to you.
How would someone get in contact with you?
Speaker 2 (53:42):
They could reach out to us on it don't have yet?
Dot tv is our website, yep.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
And there's just dot TV, no dot com, dot U,
just dot TV.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Dot TV.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
You don't yet dot TV and over yet? Is ai
n apostrophe t over yet?
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (53:59):
And dot tv, dot TV And they can find us
also on social media channels.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
What's what's you've got to Instagram? Have yet the same thing.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
On Insta and Facebook? Ye? And they can and they can.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
DM And right now you're looking, are we talking about
large amounts of funding of what we're talking about it.
What's an episode costing.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Episodes costing sort of around forty grand Yeah, an episode,
which for you know, for eighteen fifteen to eighteen minute episode,
it's a it's pretty good. We've got We've I've kept
the cost down for a reason, to be able to
produce a number, to be able to get a good
spread of things out, especially for that first season, to
(54:43):
just show how it lands. And then I think once
it gets that, once it gets.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
A little bit of a roll on and build an audio.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Build an audience, it'll go. The really interesting thing is
is when we launch the teaser, I've had had a
lot of had a heap of feedback from people wanting
to be on the show and mates and guys and stuff,
but a lot of women writing in and texting me saying,
oh my god, this is so good. I had a
brother that this has happened too. This is really great.
And that's been a really interesting turn as well as
(55:14):
the women are really interested in the content as well.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
Women are also much more thoughtful about these things because
for the very reason you need to do this show
in the first place, blokes aren't and yeah, that's the
very reason you need to do it.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Women talk. Guys don't.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, we don't, and unfortunately, particularly older guys, because that's
just not how we're always told. Just keep it at home,
keep it buried. Yeah, and that's what you're saying, I think, David,
is that is the worst possible thing you can do,
worst possible because that all fits into the isolation. This
bit that all fits into I'm going to isolate myself
(55:48):
because I'm ashamed or whatever it is, I'm not going
to tell anyone about it. And over time you've got
no one to talk to about it, and then you
just go down this deephole and then you get lonely,
and people drink for companionship and or take drugs, yes,
and they lose their confidence. So when you get anxiety
when you go into crowd, So what am I going
to do before I got in the crowd, I'm going
to get on the drink or take something before I
go to help me through that process. And then you
(56:10):
get addiction. Processes start to kick in and you think
you can't do it without it, and then you go
down a horrible rabbit hole and which no doubt you
went through. And look, I think from what's really interesting
here is there are a number of business owners who
would be listening to this thing, who could well be
going through exactly the same thing as what you have
(56:32):
gone through. I can tell you now, I know a
lot of people have been through those processes, lots lots,
and the only way out is, like when I went
through these things, it's no YouTube, but is to lean
on somebody else who's actually been through the experience. You
don't want to go to mum or dad. I mean,
it's great if you can, but mum and dad because
my mom and dad probably haven't experienced it. And a
(56:55):
lot of times you want to get your brother, your
sister because they probably haven't experienced it, so they don't
know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
And you think when I was going through it, you
think you're the only one.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
And that's why this shot it's like, oh god, oh
that he's doing that. Oh I'm not the only guy.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
And the great thing in YouTube is a bit of
you interviewing yourself is voyeurism. I can get on YouTube
and no one even knows correct, and then I can
look at it and if it's not episode one, it
might be episode five. The nice small chunks so I'm
not going to have to sit there for an hour
and a half listen to Joe Rogan episode or two
hours or three hours. It's for chunky fifteen twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Fifteen twenty minutes and you know what, and they go
they go quick and it goes, we go deep fast
like it's it's open.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, there's no stuff on a round, there's no.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Stuff straight, there's no bullshit. It's just it's real. It's raw,
and some of it's some it's it's confronting. Some some
things are confronting.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
But it's not about it's just so I'm clear on
this is not just about the being confronted. It's it's
also about a solution.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
I think the biggest the biggest outtake is the solution
is that you can relate to the bad things that
have happened, but also how that taken, how they've come around,
or how they've working or how they are working. You
know a lot of people it's it's working progress.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
I know with me it is that it never stops.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
It never does.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
But with everyone but all of us are working progress.
People think, look, they think you've got to ship together, mate,
fucking every single day it doesn't matter. I have to
give myself an uppercut and just get on with it
and work my way through it and talk to people.
It's why I do this podcasts, by the way, one
of the things I do because I learned something. Every
single time I get reminded of something that I've already learned,
(58:30):
what I've forgotten about, or I'm not employing, We'll make
the best luck. Dave Kleiber. Dave is the owner, producer, director,
and everything at this stage. And you know who's out
there looking for assistance, somebody who wants to join him
as a like minded person for it ain't over yet.
Dot tv if that's his website, you want to go
to have a look at it and the teasers up
there up there good cause it's about time. Good on
(58:55):
your mate, Thanks Mark, I appreciate time. St
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