August 25, 2025 • 50 mins
This week I sit down with Paul Grosmann, CEO of R.M.Williams, to talk about one of Australia’s most iconic and enduring brands. We go back to 1932 and the story of founder Reginald Murray Williams, and how a bloke with no formal training built a business that became a global name. Paul shares what makes the boots and jackets so special, why Aussies are so loyal to the brand, and how it has stayed true to its roots despite decades of changing ownership. He also opens up about his own journey from Nike and McKinsey to Harris Farm Markets, and the leadership lessons he is bringing to R.M.Williams as he drives the brand into its next chapter while keeping its heritage front and centre.
Check out R.M.Williams website here: https://drinkhyro.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris. Paul Grossman, Welcome
to Mentor. Mate.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Thanks Mark could be here.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
One of my favorite brands. You're the CEO of R
O M. Williams. For me, it's boots and sometimes pants, trousers,
definitely waterproof jackets. Is ze Kubra had sort of included
in the Row Williams range.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It's a different it's a different brand. It's definitely in
our range. There's been a long partnership between the Cooper
and Ron Williams brands over the last ninety years.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So it was let's let's just go back a loose
So Ara Williams, what's a Standford?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
By the way, Reginald Murray reg Regg as he's affectionately
known Reg Williams was our founder. It's actually amazing because
the brand is well known and iconic. But our founder himself,
who is even named after is I think if you
put him in a lineups, Australians wouldn't pick him up.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I wouldn't big him. So I was in a live anymore. No, no,
how long ago was this brand founder?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So he founded in nineteen thirty two.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So where the middle of the depression.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Middle of the depression. Yeah, and that was that was
part of the inspiration that he wanted to make boots
and leather goods that would stand the test of time
and the harsh climates of the Australian out back. And
that's how that was. That was the origins of the
of the brand.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Did he when you say he started as interesting? Was
Redge inspired or maybe motivated by the fact that people
can't afford to keep replacing stuff, and especially during the
Great Depression? Do you know that, just as a side issue,
the Great Depression of the nine to nineteen thirty five
(01:52):
was not the greatest depression we ever had. The great
depression we ever had was nineteen sorry, eighteen twenty one
to eighteen ninety six, so before there was a great
depression for them, with actually a lot worse globally. That depression,
and we called the great Great Depression should be going
to the grade two or something, the depression of it. Yeah,
(02:15):
but the Great Depression in twenty nine anyway, and obviously
thirty two. I was getting sidetracked there, but I presume
maybe and you might know the story. If you do,
I love you to tell me. Is it because he thought, well,
people can't afford to keep replacing stuff. So what I'm
going to do is make something that's going to last
a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, you're spot on, and part of what he constructed
was a boot that not only would last avery long time.
But most people don't know this. There's a targ on
our boots that has that those two yeah exactly, that
you pull them on and off with, and it's got
an address on it, five Percy Street. Yeah, and he
put that address on there. So one of the unique
(02:56):
things about our boots is they can be repaired. And
so once the owner of boots had sort of worn
through the souls, they'd send them out of the dress.
You prepare them and send them back.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
As fire person through. It's good. What's the name of
the suburber?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Is a weird prospect?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Prospect? That's it? Is that prospect in New South Wales?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
No, it's in Adelaide.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay, there must be another prospect. There's a second prospect.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So did they have post codes in those days, because
imagine if you said it to the wrong prospect, because
a prospect just outside of Sydney, it might ever got
your boots back.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I haven't heard of that issue happening, but.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It might be. It might be House of Paul with
tons of boots exactly back to nineteen thirty two. So
that's very clever.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Though. Wait, he was the innovator and at the heart
of it, he was all about personalized service, right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So was he boot maker by a professional whatever you
call it.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
He wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
He was.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He was a tinker. It is probably the best way
to describe him. And there's lots of legends about how
the brand actually started, but the most reliable is that
it has its roots in the Nepabunna region in Finness
Rangers and he was working in a mission doing everything
from building mines and he came across a bloke called
Dollar Mick, who was actually a First Nations bloke, who
(04:07):
told him how to do some work with leather, and
together they build this boot out of one piece of leather.
And at the time they started constructing it in the mission,
and he was kicked out of the mission because he
was paying the aboriginals there at the fair wage and
they didn't like that.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The mission didn't.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The mission didn't, and so he moved down to Prospect,
which is where his parents lived and started up a
factory out of the back of their house.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
But what was his deal like other than this adventure?
What was his deal? Was he like a miner or something, or.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
He was a wanderer. He was a young bloke at
that point, so he was just going around trying to
earn a wage where he could. But then then he'd
just go off and go into bush for a while,
and he just he was an.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Explorer, like a dreamer. Sounds like exactly, Yeah, that's pretty cool.
That's a great story actually, And obviously not obviously, but
I presume then the very first thing that he produced
was a boot.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, he was the boot. The boot was the
heart of it. And but he always did a lot
of work with with leather, so it was boot belts
back in the day. He looked some of the some
of the original catalogs. They had a wide range of stuff, saddles,
but basically just loved leather work. He loved working with leather.
He's a beautiful platter of leather. And if you've ever
(05:29):
seen our we've got these kangaroo platted belts that we
still sell today that he was instrumental in making from
back in the day.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
At a kangaroo then yeah, wow, yeah, that would have
been fairly innovative, like back at that time of ninety
thirty two, using kangaroo hide too, because you've got to
get you've got to tan the hide, you've got to
exactly catch the kangaroo skin it tan it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's right, it's right. And not many people realize this. Well,
kangaroo is one of the toughest and most lightweight leathers
there is. That's why a lot of the sports brand
use it on footy boots. Until recently, I didn't know. Yeah,
so it's an incredible leather, really really thin, really tough.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
That's interesting. I guess that's an evolutionary advantage of the
kangaroo somehow, living in the back. What's funny about that,
you know, using our what is ours Australian materials for
Australian conditions. So Australia too was best naturally best coming
off back of the kangaroo. And I guess they're making
(06:28):
belts out of that and whips. And because belts boots,
you made whips too in those days.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
We still do, don't sell as many of them these days.
They stockman whips, Stockman whips they take. There's there's actually
only two blokes in the company that can make them
because they take almost a full day. That's an incredible
amount of platting and work that goes into them. So
we don't see a lot of them. But but yeah,
they still made today.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Everybody should have a whip for whatever reason you want
to use it. But everyone should have a whip. I
mean I should get one of those whips and put
it up in my farmer. We have cattle, but you know,
no one is We're just dogs and stuff like that,
and you know we don't Yeah, no one rides horses.
Everybody's on a motorbike. But my guys that love to
look at something like that and they you know, it's
(07:13):
funny people not just in the cities, but maybe people
in cities are more so this way, but people at farms.
My guys are generational farmers, so they're born in farmers.
And there's a whole lot of brothers who all work
for me, and they are absolutely intrigued by these sorts
of stories about when it's Australianized, like it when it
(07:34):
has roots in Australian farming, and there are some special
things and I don't know Williams is about to me
anyway he's associated with that. It's not just there is fashion,
get that bit, and there is all the benefits of
wearing the stuff for the last long time. It's reasonably prized.
Blah blah blah. It's iconic and you know, we'll talk
a little bit later about the you know, the the
(07:55):
roots of the products and where it all comes from.
But there is the story that's behin and oram Williams
is the coolest part the experience of wearing something like
that that's has is that is associated with those origins.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, there's there's there's not a lot in our proud
nation that is like it. In terms of Gina would
argue with that, we're talking about talking about real products,
products that you're right resource with, materials that can stand
the test of time and the harsh Australian climates that
(08:29):
are made. There's something about Ossie innovation that isn't talked
about much. But it's a very resourceful, very practical, very
functional type of innovation that's not it's it's not as
it's not the type of innovation that you necessarily gravitate
to when you when you think about the big tech
companies and that sort of thing, but there is something
(08:50):
special about it.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
There is tech involved, absolutely. There is craft, yeah, real craft.
That's very interesting. So do you have is there a
like a does Aaron Williams have in the head office
or one of their officers, like a little history wall
or a history room, photographs and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
If you if you go to five Percy Street and
prospect the right prospect, if you go there, there is
we still have that site. There's a store there. Above
the store is where the original workshop is and there's
a there's a museum at the back that shares some
of the stories from that journey.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So people are still working there.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, people be surprised there are. We've got some beautiful
loyal fans that you know, when they're in Adelaide, they'll
they'll make the trip outs not far out of the city,
so they'll make the trip out there to have a
wander and have a look around.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I was going to say, is it on the jurist
map sort of thing so to speak, you know, not officially,
but you know what I mean, it is.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But it's something also that we are one of the
things we've been privileged without current owners the forest that
they are investing a lot. I'm very passionate about the
Australian made side of things and making sure that that
moves forward and not backwards, investing a lot. So it's
something that over the coming years we will lean into
and make it. I think more of a tourist more
of a tourist attraction. That's definitely on the list.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
All the good news is for anybody listening to this,
I can vouch with this stuff. I'm not getting paid
by these guys, no commercial arrangers, with our own winners.
But I've been buying our own Williams boots, which I
wear in Sydney and at my farm. I don't wear
a belt. I do have a couple of iron Williams belts,
but I don't wear them very often. But I definitely
wear the boots. I wear the Swede boots here in
Sydney when i'm but I'm trying to dress up and
(10:39):
I'll wear them, probably inappropriately, but I'll wear them with
a suit because I don't give a shit. I quite
like the feeling when they're comfortable. As far as I'm concerned,
they look dressy. I often get told you you should
be wearing a pair of leather shoes, but I'd rather
wear those, and definitely my fam I'll wear them all.
My staff wear them up.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
There too, So I'm sure. I'm sure our brand team
would a heartbeat like to use you as a use mark.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
But I have commercially. You can put that up somewhere
when this goes to ED and you can put it
up if you're like, I don't care, because I actually
believe in the stuff. I really like the brand. I
do want to talk to you though, about years ago.
I remember many years ago. I don't know how long.
It feels like twenty years ago, maybe not. But Aaron
(11:22):
Williams was at a crossroad. It looked, I seem to recall,
and I haven't done any research on it. I seem
to recall it was sort of failing and going backwards.
And I don't even who owned it. I think for
some reason, I thought it was someone from out of
the Murdock camp was running.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I seem to recall. Yeah, so there was a period
where the late Ken Cally and that's what was Yeah. Yeah,
so the brands it's over its ninety three years, has
had many twists and turns, it's had at least five
different ownerships.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Really, and it's.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
There's been some core things that have stayed and stuck
the test of time. But there through the various ownerships,
has taken I wouldn't say different directions, but they've tried
to extend it in different ways. And yeah, that that
period went through some tougher times and there's been a
couple of ownerships since. But yeah, it's certainly taken lots
(12:21):
of twists and turns over those ninety three years.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And would it be fair to say that Twiggy and
his wife bought it to save it? Like that sounds
a bit condescending, but was it more we can't leave
this in faile.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Don't mean FAI would go backwards or go out of business,
I mean not grow and not stand the test of time.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, it's a good question. I wouldn't say that at
the time when when they bought it, it wasn't it
wasn't on the cusp. But failing it, it had subsequent
owners that one of the private equity arms of LVMH
had had a hint of only before that, before the forest,
But I would definitely say that that Andrew and Nicola
(13:06):
had bought it one to bring it back into Australian
hands because they are passionate and love the brand and
want to be forever custodians of a brand to ensure
that it does continue to stand the test of time
and and last another ninety three years.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So whit? Whit? What is it behind their passion for
these sorts of things? You know, like people go, yeah,
they're rich, you know Andrews and Nikola are they? You
know they could you know, they they could buy another
country if they wanted to, Like, so it really doesn't
matter to them. What is it about that really matters
to them? Why do you think that they've just sort
of leaned into the R and Williams brand to sort
(13:46):
of maintain it and build it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's a great question. Although I'm I can't speak on
behalf of Andrew Nicol, but what I can say is
what I see from them and how they're supporting me
and the brand directly. I know that they've obviously there's a.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Like.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
How most Australians have a level of affinity of the
brand is because there are lots of Australian brands that
are on a global stage. Not many of them talk
about their australianness as a big part of who they are.
So they've grown up with a connection to the brand
that passionate about it. And there is a lot about
(14:28):
what R. M. Williams is about that is really important
to them in terms of it's onshore manufacturing and the
fact that we employ a large number of Australians to
make this brand what it is the fact that the
way we do things, the quality, the sustainability about the
products and what we do is really important to them.
(14:49):
So there are a lot of things that are aligned
with their values that I'm sure we're really important. When
they were thinking about well why is this brand important
to them? And how long you've been there now, I've
been there for coming up to four years.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Okay, so maybe give you a little bit of background
on yourself. So you have had a mixed bag, You've
been lots of different places, Nike, uh Nike Direct stores
for go to China, McKinzie obviously a you know, one
of those consultant guys who gets paid a lot of
money prose pro sport House as well, and it says
(15:24):
he Harris farm Markets. Can you give me a background.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, yeah, I've I've had a maybe four stages to
my journey. One I I grew up in my family
business is Harris Farm Markets. My I grew up in
the Flemington markets, following my uncle around collecting receipts from
all the all the different growers, and.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I see them from the Harris farm family, Harris fan.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
But I'm related to them, David and Kathy Harrott's and
my auntie and uncle. So I worked growing grew up
working in the stores during the holidays, stucking palettes of
mangos and so that was my original love of retail
started started there.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Of course, the Harrow's Farm business enterprise has been very successful.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's it's the greatest fruit and ven you'll you will get,
and largely in New South Wales, but venturing into other
areas now too.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So you you've got a taste of retail as a
young man there. Yeah, and in wholesale probably the whole
whole chain. It was.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It was mostly mostly working in stores. I did some
work in the office, but yeah, there was there was
broad exposure, but there was something about that direct into
interaction with the customer, the messiness but also the liveliness
of the retail environment which is addictive but also frustrating
(16:50):
at times, but that's also addictive as well. The second
phase probably, Yeah, you're right. I went and did an
apprenticeship in consulting, so spent a big chunk of that
time with with company and most of that overseas. I've
done twenty years outside of Australia, big chunk of it
in China, time in the US, and that was really
(17:11):
helpful just in terms of understanding problem solving and communication
and structured thinking.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You might just explain an audience because some of the
audience don't know what McKinsey does, so just explain at
that level, the McKinsey level, consulting, consulting, you know, the
sorts of people who retain your skills and your time,
and the sorts of sorts of jobs. I don't mean
give me something specific, but like you see, problem solving
(17:37):
is sort of large problem solving.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, So typically they've brought in to help management problems
a few organizations in government and governments, so that that
could be anything from strategic challenges operational challenges, but they're
typically things that are at the management level and stuff
that challenges that they're something to overcome or want an
(18:01):
outside perspective in terms of how how others are solving
and how to do it differently. So at a super
high level, that's that's largely why people engage companies like McKinsey.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And did you just do the same stuff with Peter Price?
Wordes quips similar similar? So you know, I just think
for context, because the context is and you come home
to our own Williams, but and you're you're sort of
employed by our own Williams. And then whether or not
they sought to get used specifically or someone like you specifically,
(18:31):
we can talk about that in a second, But the
context of that is that our own Williams obviously needed
to strategically work out where it stood, what it stood for,
and what people loved about it, and how can you
take it forward and protect it, look after it and
grow it. And that's a pretty typical thing, was what
a McKinsey guy or girl would do.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's I I there are people that spend their life
at that organization and I've I've got great connections that
that still do.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
For me.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I'm forever grateful for the time I had there was
an amazing apprenticeship and just understanding how organizations work at
the highest level, all different types of all different types exactly.
So it was it was a great it was a
great apprenticeship that that that stage of my my career journey.
The bit that I was I was yearning which took
me to the next stage was I went and worked
(19:23):
for a I think one of Austraight's greatest retailer is
a guy called Brett Brett Blundy and worked for him
literally out of his home for for many years.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Was beginning when he was doing bras and stuff like that,
but it was.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
It was at that stage where he was in Diva
Diva and Lavisa and and Dairs and Dusk and a
bunch of retail retail property. And his pitch, his pitch
to me was that I could help him on the
strategic stuff and he can help me become an operator.
And there's a big difference, a big difference, a big difference,
(19:57):
and it's important that I think you're able to understand
and learn how to do both. And Brett is an
incredible operator and I learned a time from my time
my time with him.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Maybe give us a bit of an example. So because
I just want to again context but strategic is what
you're you're building expertise, are expertise up in strategic stuff
working at PWN or McKinsey. But then what you're talking
about in relation to bread operational stuff is like on
the tools, not literally, but like the tools of the business.
(20:32):
There's a big difference. I mean, you can be coming
in from a helicopter sort of looking down on everybody
and saying at the McKinsey's yes, you know, we looked
at this, and we looked that over there in another
country or another industry, and these are the sort of
strategies we saw worked out of there, and we're going
to employ some of those with you after we've done
a sort of a complete ordered on your business as
to how it works, et cetera. But then someone like
(20:53):
Brett Blunde is about getting shit done.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Like in terms of being on the tools. Some of
the starkest memories at like ten thirty pm on Christmas
Eve side by side with Brett putting jewelry on prongs
to set up for the boxing day sale on for
the obviously day after Christmas. But there is a whole
bunch of just leadership operational learnings that just came from
(21:22):
what it's like to be an operator on the tools.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, it's a good word you used to leadership. Leadership
is about doing stuff or being seen as doing stuff
and doing stuff. Maybe you could just give me a
what are some of the characteristics of someone like Brett
Blundy that maybe you're borrowed because none of these things
are original, that will borrowed from everybody, from somebody else
prior to that. What are there some of the leadership
(21:46):
characteristics that you think you've borrowed from Brett that you
now employees, say, in any of the business you've been
involved with, but particularly in this business here our own Williams.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
The first one that comes to my mark is and
I don't know if I've borrow effectively, but I certainly
aspired to borrow it. His Brett has, like I've never seen,
an extraordinary ability to take emotion out of a lot
of decision making. And what I mean by that is
a problem would come his way, and when you're in
(22:17):
those operating roles, make problems constantly come your way all
day put up and his ability to just sort of
remain completely composed and make the right decision in that
situation is quite unique. Most people get flustered, they get frustrated,
they get angry. But he's got an extraordinary ability to
do that. And so it was a real turning point
(22:41):
in my career to realize. Actually it was actually a
performance review that I had with Brett. He got me
when we do our performance reviews, he'd make me send
him a two page letter on my reflections from the year,
and he'd read it and he'd come back to me
and he said, the first thing I've picked up on
you is you've got worry. All the way through the
two pages, he goes, mate, you're a worry You've got
to stop worrying as not a warrior, but a warrior,
(23:04):
as in you worry about stuff. And I realized, Jesus
is buddy right. And so it's taken me on a
journey which i'm still wrestling with today, that you have
moments in your day to day where you realize you're
being triggered by something and it's it's taking you off
course and it's making you think about the wrong things.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
As in ruminating on something. Yeah, you mean, like this
thing is not working and I'm going to let it
affect everything else.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let's less ruminating more having a negative emotional reaction to something,
so then you just make bad decisions when you're not
in the right frame of mind. So me, it was
that was just a real It was an inspiring leadership
trait and definitely one that I've tried to adopt into.
It doesn't matter whether it's business or life. You know,
(23:54):
it's the same when you're hanging out with your kids
as it is with your day.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
How do you do that? So how do you take
Let's look at someone who's got a small business. They're
on there, they're on the on our own. I feel
like Reg Williams would have been like nine thirty two
and I don't know. There's the leather suppli has been
halted for some reason. You know, the horse and carriage
that was bringing the leather is a broken wheel and
(24:19):
can't get to there in time. But you've got a
whole lot of miners in there waiting for to get
their boots. How do you take how do you take
the emotion out of it?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So if we take if we take that example, my
initial reaction would have been get onto that phone of
that bloke and say mate, like, if we don't, we've
got fartherest day around the corner. If we don't get
that stuff, it's going to we're going to have a
negative impact and you just get angry.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And brand's gonna be efected exactly, and just you go.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
At him or her until you get the outcome that
you want. Whereas if you can take that emotion out,
it's not that you don't have to directly deal with
that that problem.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
You still have to deal with it.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
You still have to deal with the problem, but the
likely outcome if you're not dealing it from that aggressive
emotional reaction is probably a far better one one that
you can solve collaboratively. Now it doesn't mean you have to,
you know, go hard from time to time, but but
but just generally being more composed, you'll get a better
outcome in that situation for both parties.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Do you think it's because worry and emotion becomes infectious.
So you're you're dealing with so your next report, the
person you're dealing with, who's responsible for the supply chain
in your organization. If you then load hole of emotion
on that individual, that individual then sort of loads it
on to the next person and it just keeps going down.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's so true. It's a it's a snowball and it'll
just keep gaining momentum, and it just culturally, it's it's
it's unhealthy. It's why it's so important as leaders that
this doesn't seem like a big it's not something that
is aadership trait we talk about very much. But I
just realized the significance of you know, when Brett those
(26:06):
examples would set the tone, it would set the example
throughout the organization.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
And how important is it do you think in being
a leader in an organization as you are, how important
is it for you to demonstrate resilience and what is resilience?
Because I get to be confused about would resilience sometimes
I think it means lots of different things, but yeah,
what do you think about that, like demonstrating resilience and
(26:31):
actually having resilience at the same time.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
But I think resilience is showing up. That's what resilience
is for me and we all in our day to
day lives, be it at work or at home, there
are always things that come away. And for me, it's
probably more than just showing up one it's just showing
(26:53):
up being fund and sent up, but showing up in
a as positive way as you can. You know, there
are those that once they take a couple of hits,
they walk around like they've got the weight of the shoulders,
the weight of the world on their shoulders, and that
in the example you gave before, is also like compounds
throughout the organization because they see that, they say, oh,
(27:14):
the boss has got the weight to the world and
the shoulders.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
It's really stressed.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
It's really stressed. We're in a really stressful period and
things are not good. Versus being able to, you know,
whether the storm. It's not always just having the rose
colored glasses on, but just being able to work through
your problems they as they arise.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
And is it acting though or is it actual different mindset?
Like you can put yourself in that mindset, like you
sort of step back from yourself and then reclose yourself
and get into a mindset like so therefore it becomes
real as opposed to acting or performance.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I'm not professing to be an expert here, mate, but
I certainly do the best I can from me. I
don't think it's I don't think it's acting. I think
the important part and the bit that I'm learning is
it's just about being yourself, but being yourself in your
best self. And if you're trying to pretend to be
(28:10):
someone else and you're trying to be like overly positive
team just seek through it and it's almost worse. But
if they can see you being honest about oh this
happened and it really threw me. But you know what,
this is how I'm thinking about it, That's what I
think resonates and is setting a good example.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
And in those cases, Paul is it is the leadership
about being collaborative in other words, say or is it
about being not dominant but actually being decisive? In other words,
problem I reckon, you solve it? Or what's your style
or problem let's all get together and put up a
(28:55):
whiteboard or whatever. We'll just work out a solution together.
What's your style?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's interesting? This is this is something that's like a
live challenge that we're grappling with it with the leadership
at Aaron Williams at the moment. And collaboration is critical
because you know, we're not we're not building rocket ships.
We're making boots, albeit the best boots in the world,
(29:20):
but we are to get those to market. It takes
collaboration across multiple functions. But for me, collaboration is not
about holding hands and everyone just supporting. There is a
part of collaboration which is about really being really clear
on who's accountable, whose owner, and if you're not living
up to your part of the collaboration in the journey,
(29:43):
you've got to be held to account. And so there's
a there's a really fine balance between making sure that
we are collaborating and communicating, but we're also holding each
other to account to achieve the outcome that we need
to achieve.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
If you go back to ninety thirty two, old redg
would have been if you looked, if you can get
him to look forward into twenty twenty five, he'd be going,
oh my god, like I can't believe everybody's so sensitive,
because it would have been an imagine. It would have
been a pretty gruff environment in those days in prospecting,
just outside of Adelaide, making boots for whoever you are
(30:19):
making boods for, and it would have been just a
matter of shit, let's just get this thing done or
worry about however it feels later. But today, how do
you you're a young man, but relatively speaking, I'm talking
about how do you balance up people with different generations,
(30:42):
their expectations of how you should be as a leader
with how you might have been brought up yourself as leader,
because I can imagine working in the mckinseyes of the
world and getting caught into who whever, some firm which
which is a big organization dealing with the sea, and
especially I it was banks and stuff. But back in
the day, they just said, listen, I know, I'm going
to pay you a cup lot of money. You better
(31:05):
you the consultant, better bloody give me the answers I'm
looking for. And there was no you know, no one
was worried about their p's and q's. You got brought
up in a different environment. And by the way, even
tweeting that like their miners, like he might be different
today to what he wrought, it would have been. I
know Andrew, and I remember what he was like. You know,
(31:26):
back in the eighties when I was at a certa
law firm, we sort of work for these organizations and
it was people were sort of and he was West
Australian too, at least in Sydney a little bit more.
Westra was different to Sydney. Put it that way, I
still love the West Trains. Actually lived over there for
a while. We did a lot of work for Alan
(31:46):
Bond in those days and a lot of other guys Westralia.
I lived there for years because you know, I was
doing a case. I went over to the case literally
for one week, and I was saying for three years.
The case took that long, and we get a whole
lot of new clients as well. And one of the
things I did notice is that where strains were fairly straightforward,
straight to the point, did stuff around. I wouldn't call
(32:10):
them insensity, but it could have been interpreted that way.
I was probably a bit of the way that the
same myself. How do you balance that up that being
brought up in that and being a leader today.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
That's a great question. And again I think one of
one of the biggest things I've learned in leadership is that,
like people often ask that question, the leader is born
or they made. And I'm a firmer leader that leadership
like all things, as a craft. And I go home
at night sometimes I think, geez, I really screwed up
with that. But it's okay because I wake up the
next day and you go at it again. I'll sort
(32:44):
of tomorrow, and so Mate, I firmly believe that, first
and foremost, it's a craft, and you get some stuff
wrong and you apologize and you move on. So I
don't think that there is also one size that fits
all as it relates to leading teams organizations. There are
moments where you have to be tougher, there are moments
(33:06):
that you have to be more supportive, and that varies
also in terms of the individual that you're dealing with.
So I don't think there's one size fits all. But
the one thing that I will come back to what
I said before is as long as you're transparent, you're honest,
and you are clear on why you are either making
(33:30):
a certain decision giving certain direction, then I think that
tends to resonate across multiple generations, irrespective of what their
background is and what they've grown up doing.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I've had to learn to become more of a listener
than at teller. I just know that for myself, I
have to be prepared to listen instead of just jumping
in and telling, and I have to be more of
an asker as opposed to an answer a question. What
blah blah blah, I suppose before I just the old days.
(34:02):
I'd walk in and say, with this what we're doing,
but go do it. Just give people tasks. It's I
grew up in a environment, in a LAWPHM where like
the senior partner if you didn't like in the eighties,
I used to wear a Paisley tie, which is I
consider it was pretty cool. I was adding my twenties,
late twenties. He pulled me up and he said, why
are you wearing that tie? You should be wearing a
(34:22):
stripe type because our clients won't think you were determined
as a as a professional person. They'll think you're He
used the word fruity wearing a Paisley tie, and I
got a shock. Like I was in my twenties, he
was in there. He would have been his mid to
late forties. Yeah, so that was and people didn't give
(34:46):
a damn how you felt. He certainly didn't because it
was his business and he wanted to run it as
tight as he could, and he knew his clients better
than anybody. It's just very interesting how the world's changed
and leadership itself has changed is quite significantly. And obviously
the Aaron Williams brand, whilst it was set up by
Reggie Williams at ninety ft to two, which was a
different totally different new to what we are now. It's
(35:08):
still the same brand, but with leadership that's appropriate.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
We'd like to think. So we'd like to think so.
One of the things that as you were saying that
during my time with Nike, and this might have been
part of the time that I was there too, but
there was a lot of talk about servant leadership and
the whole thing that's underlying that leadership philosophy is that
leaders are meant to be in the background. You meant
(35:36):
to be there in listening, in support of others, and
it's not about and there's something there's something about that
that I think we come back to how we started
this conversation with Reg Williams. Most Australians know who Aaron
Williams is. Very few could pick him out of a lineup,
and Reg applied though. He was a great listener, he
was a great supporter, he was a great enabler. He's
(35:58):
sort of it's almost that leadership that leads from behind
in some ways, and so that is definitely part of
I think the DNA of the brand and what we
are still trying to achieve today. I certainly don't engage
in doing things like we're doing right here today.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Mark Very often it's definitely work in progress for these things.
And a great thing about is you're prepared to learn
as you go to that that's pretty important. Good. I
just talk about how many stores you've got Astraina now
fifty five stores? Do you cover every state every week.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Cover every trading and globally so we are New Zealand
and the UK.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
So we.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Since so I started shortly after the Forest took over
the brand, and at that time we were really struggling
to fulfill demand in Australia and it's been a journey
of really investing in ramping up what's been done in
South Australia to the point where it's only really been
the last nine months that we're making a concerted push
(37:01):
into the UK and sort of have more global ambitions.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Because you couldn't you couldn't satisfy the supply chain in
relation to any demand. Yes you are, in other words,
if someone wants to buy the boots, so that you've
got to be able to deliver the exactly and therefore
you've got to get it made exactly. So if I
go back on the supply chain side, in terms of
inputs into for example, boot or belts.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Leather, leather is the biggest.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I don't know what else. What's the bottom made of leather?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, so different types of let's say some of the
components that we've got to go into a boot. You've
got your leather uppers, you've got the elastic, you've got
the tugs which make out a nylon. You've got some
of the rubber in the heel, You've got wax, and
you've got cork which is used for some of the
cushioning that makes the boots so comfortable, stitching and the stitching.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
So the raw materials are you still proudly able to
say that they're Australian source.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Some of it is, not all of it is, but
that it never actually has been. So one of the
things that reg was amazing at doing was he broadly
made it in Australia, but he was unashavably going and
sourcing the best materials from around the world. So you
reference the wax jacket before. He was getting that from
the UK back in the day, because that's where the
(38:20):
best was coming from. So he was very resourceful in
terms of just choosing the best leathers, and we do
the same today. So we do have leathers that come
we have heritage tanneries in the UK. We get we
get a lot of our supply from from from Australia
and we get a lot from New Zealand. So it's
for us what's most important is making sure we've got
(38:42):
the right components and then we're building them the right way.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And in terms of and this is an Australia thing there,
but the slavery actor, do you sort of ensure that
these things are not sourced from that?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
We lean him very heavily leave And so there is
I'm not sure how far down it goes, but most
organizations over a certain side have to complete a public
statement called the Modern State Modern Slavery Statement.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
We do it in our own firm too, so yeah,
you have to do it.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
And this statement is really about making sure that we
as a brand are accountable for the boots that we produce.
We need to make sure that we know that if
we are sourcing materials or components anywhere in the world,
that we know where it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Some twelve year old kid in slave labor exactly learning
you know, one ring at an hour or something for
doing the work. That's sort of what we thok about.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's exactly. It's exactly that it's got to do with
making sure we first of all we know exactly where
it's coming, we have transparency over our supply chain, and
then we know that, Yeah, the conditions in those partners
that we are working with, we're proud to work.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
With and they stand by Australian standards, by Australian standard, Yeah, yeah,
and it's fair at the end of the day. Exactly,
it's fair and I think for me that's really important
to know that. And so but you're still you might
source some of the inputs, but is it still put
it together? Made? Would have been cooled.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
It goes through it goes through eighty pairs of hands
in Salisbury and South Australia. And we've actually just restarted
tours of the workshops. If anyone's interested in actually going
and seeing how boot gets made, you welcome together. Is
it on your Websits on our website, a video or
something like that. Yeah, there's I mean, we've got various
(40:47):
videos up that show that the process. But there's nothing
like actually going and seeing it because it's not just
the construction process. But we've got such an incredible team
down there that are so proud of showing off that
beautiful craft and so they genuinely love it when people
come and visit and engage. And it's pretty unique because
you can actually just genuinely walk the lines and obviously
(41:08):
with someone you can't just randomly walk in there, but
but you can see see how it's made, what's going on.
So we pride ourselves and this has been you know,
also a part of the DNA of the brand and
being a very transparent, very transparent brand. And so yeah,
that all happens in Salisbury and South Australia.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
That's cool. And how many skews would you guys have.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
That that?
Speaker 1 (41:31):
You know, in other words product lines, Oh you're testing me.
We're just took about boots and you know belts.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
At the moment, it's it's it's it's it's thousands when
it accumulates over over seasons between boots where we do
everything from boots, belts, other leather goods apparel.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
So we've got pants, t shirts.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, we've got a we've got a wide range and
a big chunk of it is uh what we described
as core like things that have stood the test of time.
And then we continue to innovate through seasonal iterations and
just trying to there's a big push at the moment
to just try and elevate the quality of the full
product offering, so apparel, other types of other goods, bags,
(42:15):
that sort of thing back to what we think is
taking it forward but honoring the past. That's sort of
the tightrope that we're trying to balance.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Many years ago, I had a business in India. Background,
I had a business in India and ice other every
four or five weeks and it's been a week there.
This is a pre GFC and all the stuff are
Indian and we had like six hundred staff there or something.
And my senior guy there for shall panded his name
(42:45):
for shell pandit was a Sikh, like a tour guy
over the turbinal, a highly religious guy. But you know,
he ran the whole business for us, and I wanted
to buy him something astrain, so I brought him a
fan of what so shoesy as from one of the
stuff they told me to socials, And when I went
over there, I bought him some pair of iron Williams.
(43:05):
Actually got a pair of black ones made black because
I like the black h what do you call it?
Not black? Yeah, so don't pair of black swaye one
same as mine? Because he was looking at mine once
and he said they had nice boots, mister Mark were
in nice boots. And so I bought him pair his size,
(43:27):
and I gave him to him, and somehow he knew
that the boots that I was wearing were Aaron Williams.
I'd never told him, he never asked me. And then
when I gave him the roon Williams, the boots I
took him out of the box was too Bockley Carriages
had him in my bag. So I took him out
my bag and gave him to him. He knew there
were and Williams. He didn't look at the the thing
(43:48):
you pull up what do you call the thing the tug.
He didn't look at the tug. He just knew there
are and Williams. He must have and he was so happy,
Oh my god, he was over the moon, like really
over the moon. And this is a guy living in
those days. Our office was in Delhi, New Delhi. But
he was from Budjab in India and somehow he knew
this whole story and then he started talking to me
(44:09):
about their own Williams brand.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
You asked earlier, is there is there a tourist trail
or a pilgrimage to that five Percy Street store and
Posh Prospect, Well, the Indian cricket team and the Stunty
cricket team frequent there. The team were all excitedly showing
around photos of Bora in there buying buying iron.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
That's interesting because we were because my business was we
own part of a business at General Electric owned and
one of the biggest you g g was one of
the biggest companies in the world at the time, and
they were a big sponsor of the Indian cricket side. Yeah,
and I can't remember which is the captain of the
Indian time team at the time. He was personally sponsored
by General Electric And so it may be that Verschell
(44:50):
had seen this guy's wearing the boots.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
And it's fascinating even the efforts that we're doing at
the moment with the expansion in the UK, like the
thing that makes me personally so proud being over there
or hearing stories like this is that there is a
deep level of respect for the brand and what we're about,
even though we don't have a strong presence outside of Australia,
(45:16):
but there is a real respect for who we are
and what we do, which as Australians we should be
very proud of.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
There's two things and I know it's on an Australian brand,
but there's two things that particularly in the prome reduction world,
like you know in farms, that I always think of
when it comes when it comes to durability and things
that are nearly like a non negotiable for a farm.
It sounds silly, and I've got I've got both of them,
(45:47):
a pair of ourm william boots, in which case at
the time that we leave the boots because the sway
doesn't do too well in the rough, but leather boots
and stupidly it's got nothing to do with anything, but
it is a toy. Had a highlights who's forty years old.
It always starts it's the most reliable car in the world.
There's bloody highlus. I've got two, but the one is
(46:07):
forty years old. It's got three and eighty thousand kilminters
on it. And I just ride around the farm. We
didn't even by the registering. That's just just carrying shit around.
But it always starts. Things have fallen apart on it,
but the mode always starts no matter what. And the
boots always you're can always getting fixed repaired. I don't
send them to Prospect to get repaired these days. I
just sent them down to local boot maker. But you
can always get repair. No drama's getting sold. I like
(46:30):
to get put rubber underneath them, under the actual leather,
soul whatever it is, mainly because it's where my farmers
and be a bit slippery. But and they're like two
old favorites, silly. It's sort of like comforting to me.
And to be aligned to a brand like that, like
for you, for me anyway, in my mind, I just
(46:51):
thought about it for R and Willims boots to be
aligned to a high Lux the toy to high Lux brand,
like it's you know, globally it's the most reliable brand
cars is there.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I don't think it's a coincidence that you think about
those two things, because those two things are what help
you get stuff done, especially on on the on the
land in that example. But and I think at the
end of the day. What is what is so humbling
and amazing is we spend time in our retail stores,
(47:24):
not half the time, but so often get customers that
come in no interest in buying. They just want to
tell the story of their boots and what they're like,
what their boots, the journey that they've been on with
those boots. And I've got an email on the we
on the weekend, lovely email from it from a woman
who's originally from the UK but now living in Byron
(47:44):
and just send a photo of a boots just to
share like this. You know, this has sort of followed
my life's journey to where I am today. And there's
something about you know, life's journey that that these things
take you on. That is is why it sort of
and hit such an emotional chord with with with people.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
It was that song I think it was Jane fond
of These boots are mad made for walking. And I'm
thinking about it as you say that you have a
female brand, you have a female sort of products, I
should say that we do. And you have a co
lab with the Snoby Union we do. What's that about?
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So we've got it. We've had a history of of
partnering with Wallaby's and we reignited it this year. It's
the first time that we have explored doing licensed product
and the reason we have experimented in it is because actually,
(48:44):
what we really care about, other than the sport's great.
We actually care less about being on the laser engravers
in the stadium or being on the jerseys. What we
care about is the fan and supporting the fan. And
so we tried to create some fan gear that is
actually cool and people want to wear it and and
(49:05):
it's resonated really really well. So that's It's not something
that we're gonna always do, but we've just been.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
But yeah, as Oarren Williams, do you reckon you've been
on a bit of a tear last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, it's been. It's been. It's been a good a
good run. It's been a good run and it's come
from a lot of the team doing a lot of
hard work and yeah, but it's been We've got a
lot of we've got a lot of things to work on,
a lot of things to do. But I think at
(49:44):
least if we look at ourselves and for the customers
that we're engaging with We don't It's like we were
talking about leadership before. We're not getting it all right,
but we're moving it in the right direction in a
way that I think Rench would be proud. Our owners
are proud, and I think that's all you can or
you can ask for.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Australis proud, mate, goodness luck.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
It's not thank you,
Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris. Paul Grossman, Welcome
to Mentor. Mate.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Thanks Mark could be here.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
One of my favorite brands. You're the CEO of R
O M. Williams. For me, it's boots and sometimes pants, trousers,
definitely waterproof jackets. Is ze Kubra had sort of included
in the Row Williams range.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It's a different it's a different brand. It's definitely in
our range. There's been a long partnership between the Cooper
and Ron Williams brands over the last ninety years.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So it was let's let's just go back a loose
So Ara Williams, what's a Standford?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
By the way, Reginald Murray reg Regg as he's affectionately
known Reg Williams was our founder. It's actually amazing because
the brand is well known and iconic. But our founder himself,
who is even named after is I think if you
put him in a lineups, Australians wouldn't pick him up.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I wouldn't big him. So I was in a live anymore. No, no,
how long ago was this brand founder?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So he founded in nineteen thirty two.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So where the middle of the depression.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Middle of the depression. Yeah, and that was that was
part of the inspiration that he wanted to make boots
and leather goods that would stand the test of time
and the harsh climates of the Australian out back. And
that's how that was. That was the origins of the
of the brand.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Did he when you say he started as interesting? Was
Redge inspired or maybe motivated by the fact that people
can't afford to keep replacing stuff, and especially during the
Great Depression? Do you know that, just as a side issue,
the Great Depression of the nine to nineteen thirty five
(01:52):
was not the greatest depression we ever had. The great
depression we ever had was nineteen sorry, eighteen twenty one
to eighteen ninety six, so before there was a great
depression for them, with actually a lot worse globally. That depression,
and we called the great Great Depression should be going
to the grade two or something, the depression of it. Yeah,
(02:15):
but the Great Depression in twenty nine anyway, and obviously
thirty two. I was getting sidetracked there, but I presume
maybe and you might know the story. If you do,
I love you to tell me. Is it because he thought, well,
people can't afford to keep replacing stuff. So what I'm
going to do is make something that's going to last
a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, you're spot on, and part of what he constructed
was a boot that not only would last avery long time.
But most people don't know this. There's a targ on
our boots that has that those two yeah exactly, that
you pull them on and off with, and it's got
an address on it, five Percy Street. Yeah, and he
put that address on there. So one of the unique
(02:56):
things about our boots is they can be repaired. And
so once the owner of boots had sort of worn
through the souls, they'd send them out of the dress.
You prepare them and send them back.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
As fire person through. It's good. What's the name of
the suburber?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Is a weird prospect?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Prospect? That's it? Is that prospect in New South Wales?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
No, it's in Adelaide.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay, there must be another prospect. There's a second prospect.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So did they have post codes in those days, because
imagine if you said it to the wrong prospect, because
a prospect just outside of Sydney, it might ever got
your boots back.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I haven't heard of that issue happening, but.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It might be. It might be House of Paul with
tons of boots exactly back to nineteen thirty two. So
that's very clever.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Though. Wait, he was the innovator and at the heart
of it, he was all about personalized service, right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So was he boot maker by a professional whatever you
call it.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
He wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
He was.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He was a tinker. It is probably the best way
to describe him. And there's lots of legends about how
the brand actually started, but the most reliable is that
it has its roots in the Nepabunna region in Finness
Rangers and he was working in a mission doing everything
from building mines and he came across a bloke called
Dollar Mick, who was actually a First Nations bloke, who
(04:07):
told him how to do some work with leather, and
together they build this boot out of one piece of leather.
And at the time they started constructing it in the mission,
and he was kicked out of the mission because he
was paying the aboriginals there at the fair wage and
they didn't like that.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The mission didn't.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The mission didn't, and so he moved down to Prospect,
which is where his parents lived and started up a
factory out of the back of their house.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
But what was his deal like other than this adventure?
What was his deal? Was he like a miner or something, or.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
He was a wanderer. He was a young bloke at
that point, so he was just going around trying to
earn a wage where he could. But then then he'd
just go off and go into bush for a while,
and he just he was an.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Explorer, like a dreamer. Sounds like exactly, Yeah, that's pretty cool.
That's a great story actually, And obviously not obviously, but
I presume then the very first thing that he produced
was a boot.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, he was the boot. The boot was the
heart of it. And but he always did a lot
of work with with leather, so it was boot belts
back in the day. He looked some of the some
of the original catalogs. They had a wide range of stuff, saddles,
but basically just loved leather work. He loved working with leather.
He's a beautiful platter of leather. And if you've ever
(05:29):
seen our we've got these kangaroo platted belts that we
still sell today that he was instrumental in making from
back in the day.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
At a kangaroo then yeah, wow, yeah, that would have
been fairly innovative, like back at that time of ninety
thirty two, using kangaroo hide too, because you've got to
get you've got to tan the hide, you've got to
exactly catch the kangaroo skin it tan it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's right, it's right. And not many people realize this. Well,
kangaroo is one of the toughest and most lightweight leathers
there is. That's why a lot of the sports brand
use it on footy boots. Until recently, I didn't know. Yeah,
so it's an incredible leather, really really thin, really tough.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
That's interesting. I guess that's an evolutionary advantage of the
kangaroo somehow, living in the back. What's funny about that,
you know, using our what is ours Australian materials for
Australian conditions. So Australia too was best naturally best coming
off back of the kangaroo. And I guess they're making
(06:28):
belts out of that and whips. And because belts boots,
you made whips too in those days.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
We still do, don't sell as many of them these days.
They stockman whips, Stockman whips they take. There's there's actually
only two blokes in the company that can make them
because they take almost a full day. That's an incredible
amount of platting and work that goes into them. So
we don't see a lot of them. But but yeah,
they still made today.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Everybody should have a whip for whatever reason you want
to use it. But everyone should have a whip. I
mean I should get one of those whips and put
it up in my farmer. We have cattle, but you know,
no one is We're just dogs and stuff like that,
and you know we don't Yeah, no one rides horses.
Everybody's on a motorbike. But my guys that love to
look at something like that and they you know, it's
(07:13):
funny people not just in the cities, but maybe people
in cities are more so this way, but people at farms.
My guys are generational farmers, so they're born in farmers.
And there's a whole lot of brothers who all work
for me, and they are absolutely intrigued by these sorts
of stories about when it's Australianized, like it when it
(07:34):
has roots in Australian farming, and there are some special
things and I don't know Williams is about to me
anyway he's associated with that. It's not just there is fashion,
get that bit, and there is all the benefits of
wearing the stuff for the last long time. It's reasonably prized.
Blah blah blah. It's iconic and you know, we'll talk
a little bit later about the you know, the the
(07:55):
roots of the products and where it all comes from.
But there is the story that's behin and oram Williams
is the coolest part the experience of wearing something like
that that's has is that is associated with those origins.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, there's there's there's not a lot in our proud
nation that is like it. In terms of Gina would
argue with that, we're talking about talking about real products,
products that you're right resource with, materials that can stand
the test of time and the harsh Australian climates that
(08:29):
are made. There's something about Ossie innovation that isn't talked
about much. But it's a very resourceful, very practical, very
functional type of innovation that's not it's it's not as
it's not the type of innovation that you necessarily gravitate
to when you when you think about the big tech
companies and that sort of thing, but there is something
(08:50):
special about it.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
There is tech involved, absolutely. There is craft, yeah, real craft.
That's very interesting. So do you have is there a
like a does Aaron Williams have in the head office
or one of their officers, like a little history wall
or a history room, photographs and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
If you if you go to five Percy Street and
prospect the right prospect, if you go there, there is
we still have that site. There's a store there. Above
the store is where the original workshop is and there's
a there's a museum at the back that shares some
of the stories from that journey.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So people are still working there.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, people be surprised there are. We've got some beautiful
loyal fans that you know, when they're in Adelaide, they'll
they'll make the trip outs not far out of the city,
so they'll make the trip out there to have a
wander and have a look around.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I was going to say, is it on the jurist
map sort of thing so to speak, you know, not officially,
but you know what I mean, it is.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But it's something also that we are one of the
things we've been privileged without current owners the forest that
they are investing a lot. I'm very passionate about the
Australian made side of things and making sure that that
moves forward and not backwards, investing a lot. So it's
something that over the coming years we will lean into
and make it. I think more of a tourist more
of a tourist attraction. That's definitely on the list.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
All the good news is for anybody listening to this,
I can vouch with this stuff. I'm not getting paid
by these guys, no commercial arrangers, with our own winners.
But I've been buying our own Williams boots, which I
wear in Sydney and at my farm. I don't wear
a belt. I do have a couple of iron Williams belts,
but I don't wear them very often. But I definitely
wear the boots. I wear the Swede boots here in
Sydney when i'm but I'm trying to dress up and
(10:39):
I'll wear them, probably inappropriately, but I'll wear them with
a suit because I don't give a shit. I quite
like the feeling when they're comfortable. As far as I'm concerned,
they look dressy. I often get told you you should
be wearing a pair of leather shoes, but I'd rather
wear those, and definitely my fam I'll wear them all.
My staff wear them up.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
There too, So I'm sure. I'm sure our brand team
would a heartbeat like to use you as a use mark.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
But I have commercially. You can put that up somewhere
when this goes to ED and you can put it
up if you're like, I don't care, because I actually
believe in the stuff. I really like the brand. I
do want to talk to you though, about years ago.
I remember many years ago. I don't know how long.
It feels like twenty years ago, maybe not. But Aaron
(11:22):
Williams was at a crossroad. It looked, I seem to recall,
and I haven't done any research on it. I seem
to recall it was sort of failing and going backwards.
And I don't even who owned it. I think for
some reason, I thought it was someone from out of
the Murdock camp was running.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I seem to recall. Yeah, so there was a period
where the late Ken Cally and that's what was Yeah. Yeah,
so the brands it's over its ninety three years, has
had many twists and turns, it's had at least five
different ownerships.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Really, and it's.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
There's been some core things that have stayed and stuck
the test of time. But there through the various ownerships,
has taken I wouldn't say different directions, but they've tried
to extend it in different ways. And yeah, that that
period went through some tougher times and there's been a
couple of ownerships since. But yeah, it's certainly taken lots
(12:21):
of twists and turns over those ninety three years.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And would it be fair to say that Twiggy and
his wife bought it to save it? Like that sounds
a bit condescending, but was it more we can't leave
this in faile.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Don't mean FAI would go backwards or go out of business,
I mean not grow and not stand the test of time.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, it's a good question. I wouldn't say that at
the time when when they bought it, it wasn't it
wasn't on the cusp. But failing it, it had subsequent
owners that one of the private equity arms of LVMH
had had a hint of only before that, before the forest,
But I would definitely say that that Andrew and Nicola
(13:06):
had bought it one to bring it back into Australian
hands because they are passionate and love the brand and
want to be forever custodians of a brand to ensure
that it does continue to stand the test of time
and and last another ninety three years.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So whit? Whit? What is it behind their passion for
these sorts of things? You know, like people go, yeah,
they're rich, you know Andrews and Nikola are they? You
know they could you know, they they could buy another
country if they wanted to, Like, so it really doesn't
matter to them. What is it about that really matters
to them? Why do you think that they've just sort
of leaned into the R and Williams brand to sort
(13:46):
of maintain it and build it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's a great question. Although I'm I can't speak on
behalf of Andrew Nicol, but what I can say is
what I see from them and how they're supporting me
and the brand directly. I know that they've obviously there's a.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Like.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
How most Australians have a level of affinity of the
brand is because there are lots of Australian brands that
are on a global stage. Not many of them talk
about their australianness as a big part of who they are.
So they've grown up with a connection to the brand
that passionate about it. And there is a lot about
(14:28):
what R. M. Williams is about that is really important
to them in terms of it's onshore manufacturing and the
fact that we employ a large number of Australians to
make this brand what it is the fact that the
way we do things, the quality, the sustainability about the
products and what we do is really important to them.
(14:49):
So there are a lot of things that are aligned
with their values that I'm sure we're really important. When
they were thinking about well why is this brand important
to them? And how long you've been there now, I've
been there for coming up to four years.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Okay, so maybe give you a little bit of background
on yourself. So you have had a mixed bag, You've
been lots of different places, Nike, uh Nike Direct stores
for go to China, McKinzie obviously a you know, one
of those consultant guys who gets paid a lot of
money prose pro sport House as well, and it says
(15:24):
he Harris farm Markets. Can you give me a background.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, yeah, I've I've had a maybe four stages to
my journey. One I I grew up in my family
business is Harris Farm Markets. My I grew up in
the Flemington markets, following my uncle around collecting receipts from
all the all the different growers, and.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I see them from the Harris farm family, Harris fan.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
But I'm related to them, David and Kathy Harrott's and
my auntie and uncle. So I worked growing grew up
working in the stores during the holidays, stucking palettes of
mangos and so that was my original love of retail
started started there.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Of course, the Harrow's Farm business enterprise has been very successful.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's it's the greatest fruit and ven you'll you will get,
and largely in New South Wales, but venturing into other
areas now too.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So you you've got a taste of retail as a
young man there. Yeah, and in wholesale probably the whole
whole chain. It was.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It was mostly mostly working in stores. I did some
work in the office, but yeah, there was there was
broad exposure, but there was something about that direct into
interaction with the customer, the messiness but also the liveliness
of the retail environment which is addictive but also frustrating
(16:50):
at times, but that's also addictive as well. The second
phase probably, Yeah, you're right. I went and did an
apprenticeship in consulting, so spent a big chunk of that
time with with company and most of that overseas. I've
done twenty years outside of Australia, big chunk of it
in China, time in the US, and that was really
(17:11):
helpful just in terms of understanding problem solving and communication
and structured thinking.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You might just explain an audience because some of the
audience don't know what McKinsey does, so just explain at
that level, the McKinsey level, consulting, consulting, you know, the
sorts of people who retain your skills and your time,
and the sorts of sorts of jobs. I don't mean
give me something specific, but like you see, problem solving
(17:37):
is sort of large problem solving.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, So typically they've brought in to help management problems
a few organizations in government and governments, so that that
could be anything from strategic challenges operational challenges, but they're
typically things that are at the management level and stuff
that challenges that they're something to overcome or want an
(18:01):
outside perspective in terms of how how others are solving
and how to do it differently. So at a super
high level, that's that's largely why people engage companies like McKinsey.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And did you just do the same stuff with Peter Price?
Wordes quips similar similar? So you know, I just think
for context, because the context is and you come home
to our own Williams, but and you're you're sort of
employed by our own Williams. And then whether or not
they sought to get used specifically or someone like you specifically,
(18:31):
we can talk about that in a second, But the
context of that is that our own Williams obviously needed
to strategically work out where it stood, what it stood for,
and what people loved about it, and how can you
take it forward and protect it, look after it and
grow it. And that's a pretty typical thing, was what
a McKinsey guy or girl would do.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's I I there are people that spend their life
at that organization and I've I've got great connections that
that still do.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
For me.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I'm forever grateful for the time I had there was
an amazing apprenticeship and just understanding how organizations work at
the highest level, all different types of all different types exactly.
So it was it was a great it was a
great apprenticeship that that that stage of my my career journey.
The bit that I was I was yearning which took
me to the next stage was I went and worked
(19:23):
for a I think one of Austraight's greatest retailer is
a guy called Brett Brett Blundy and worked for him
literally out of his home for for many years.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Was beginning when he was doing bras and stuff like that,
but it was.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
It was at that stage where he was in Diva
Diva and Lavisa and and Dairs and Dusk and a
bunch of retail retail property. And his pitch, his pitch
to me was that I could help him on the
strategic stuff and he can help me become an operator.
And there's a big difference, a big difference, a big difference,
(19:57):
and it's important that I think you're able to understand
and learn how to do both. And Brett is an
incredible operator and I learned a time from my time
my time with him.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Maybe give us a bit of an example. So because
I just want to again context but strategic is what
you're you're building expertise, are expertise up in strategic stuff
working at PWN or McKinsey. But then what you're talking
about in relation to bread operational stuff is like on
the tools, not literally, but like the tools of the business.
(20:32):
There's a big difference. I mean, you can be coming
in from a helicopter sort of looking down on everybody
and saying at the McKinsey's yes, you know, we looked
at this, and we looked that over there in another
country or another industry, and these are the sort of
strategies we saw worked out of there, and we're going
to employ some of those with you after we've done
a sort of a complete ordered on your business as
to how it works, et cetera. But then someone like
(20:53):
Brett Blunde is about getting shit done.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Like in terms of being on the tools. Some of
the starkest memories at like ten thirty pm on Christmas
Eve side by side with Brett putting jewelry on prongs
to set up for the boxing day sale on for
the obviously day after Christmas. But there is a whole
bunch of just leadership operational learnings that just came from
(21:22):
what it's like to be an operator on the tools.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, it's a good word you used to leadership. Leadership
is about doing stuff or being seen as doing stuff
and doing stuff. Maybe you could just give me a
what are some of the characteristics of someone like Brett
Blundy that maybe you're borrowed because none of these things
are original, that will borrowed from everybody, from somebody else
prior to that. What are there some of the leadership
(21:46):
characteristics that you think you've borrowed from Brett that you
now employees, say, in any of the business you've been
involved with, but particularly in this business here our own Williams.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
The first one that comes to my mark is and
I don't know if I've borrow effectively, but I certainly
aspired to borrow it. His Brett has, like I've never seen,
an extraordinary ability to take emotion out of a lot
of decision making. And what I mean by that is
a problem would come his way, and when you're in
(22:17):
those operating roles, make problems constantly come your way all
day put up and his ability to just sort of
remain completely composed and make the right decision in that
situation is quite unique. Most people get flustered, they get frustrated,
they get angry. But he's got an extraordinary ability to
do that. And so it was a real turning point
(22:41):
in my career to realize. Actually it was actually a
performance review that I had with Brett. He got me
when we do our performance reviews, he'd make me send
him a two page letter on my reflections from the year,
and he'd read it and he'd come back to me
and he said, the first thing I've picked up on
you is you've got worry. All the way through the
two pages, he goes, mate, you're a worry You've got
to stop worrying as not a warrior, but a warrior,
(23:04):
as in you worry about stuff. And I realized, Jesus
is buddy right. And so it's taken me on a
journey which i'm still wrestling with today, that you have
moments in your day to day where you realize you're
being triggered by something and it's it's taking you off
course and it's making you think about the wrong things.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
As in ruminating on something. Yeah, you mean, like this
thing is not working and I'm going to let it
affect everything else.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let's less ruminating more having a negative emotional reaction to something,
so then you just make bad decisions when you're not
in the right frame of mind. So me, it was
that was just a real It was an inspiring leadership
trait and definitely one that I've tried to adopt into.
It doesn't matter whether it's business or life. You know,
(23:54):
it's the same when you're hanging out with your kids
as it is with your day.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
How do you do that? So how do you take
Let's look at someone who's got a small business. They're
on there, they're on the on our own. I feel
like Reg Williams would have been like nine thirty two
and I don't know. There's the leather suppli has been
halted for some reason. You know, the horse and carriage
that was bringing the leather is a broken wheel and
(24:19):
can't get to there in time. But you've got a
whole lot of miners in there waiting for to get
their boots. How do you take how do you take
the emotion out of it?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So if we take if we take that example, my
initial reaction would have been get onto that phone of
that bloke and say mate, like, if we don't, we've
got fartherest day around the corner. If we don't get
that stuff, it's going to we're going to have a
negative impact and you just get angry.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And brand's gonna be efected exactly, and just you go.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
At him or her until you get the outcome that
you want. Whereas if you can take that emotion out,
it's not that you don't have to directly deal with
that that problem.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
You still have to deal with it.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
You still have to deal with the problem, but the
likely outcome if you're not dealing it from that aggressive
emotional reaction is probably a far better one one that
you can solve collaboratively. Now it doesn't mean you have to,
you know, go hard from time to time, but but
but just generally being more composed, you'll get a better
outcome in that situation for both parties.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Do you think it's because worry and emotion becomes infectious.
So you're you're dealing with so your next report, the
person you're dealing with, who's responsible for the supply chain
in your organization. If you then load hole of emotion
on that individual, that individual then sort of loads it
on to the next person and it just keeps going down.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's so true. It's a it's a snowball and it'll
just keep gaining momentum, and it just culturally, it's it's
it's unhealthy. It's why it's so important as leaders that
this doesn't seem like a big it's not something that
is aadership trait we talk about very much. But I
just realized the significance of you know, when Brett those
(26:06):
examples would set the tone, it would set the example
throughout the organization.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
And how important is it do you think in being
a leader in an organization as you are, how important
is it for you to demonstrate resilience and what is resilience?
Because I get to be confused about would resilience sometimes
I think it means lots of different things, but yeah,
what do you think about that, like demonstrating resilience and
(26:31):
actually having resilience at the same time.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
But I think resilience is showing up. That's what resilience
is for me and we all in our day to
day lives, be it at work or at home, there
are always things that come away. And for me, it's
probably more than just showing up one it's just showing
(26:53):
up being fund and sent up, but showing up in
a as positive way as you can. You know, there
are those that once they take a couple of hits,
they walk around like they've got the weight of the shoulders,
the weight of the world on their shoulders, and that
in the example you gave before, is also like compounds
throughout the organization because they see that, they say, oh,
(27:14):
the boss has got the weight to the world and
the shoulders.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
It's really stressed.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
It's really stressed. We're in a really stressful period and
things are not good. Versus being able to, you know,
whether the storm. It's not always just having the rose
colored glasses on, but just being able to work through
your problems they as they arise.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
And is it acting though or is it actual different mindset?
Like you can put yourself in that mindset, like you
sort of step back from yourself and then reclose yourself
and get into a mindset like so therefore it becomes
real as opposed to acting or performance.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I'm not professing to be an expert here, mate, but
I certainly do the best I can from me. I
don't think it's I don't think it's acting. I think
the important part and the bit that I'm learning is
it's just about being yourself, but being yourself in your
best self. And if you're trying to pretend to be
(28:10):
someone else and you're trying to be like overly positive
team just seek through it and it's almost worse. But
if they can see you being honest about oh this
happened and it really threw me. But you know what,
this is how I'm thinking about it, That's what I
think resonates and is setting a good example.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
And in those cases, Paul is it is the leadership
about being collaborative in other words, say or is it
about being not dominant but actually being decisive? In other words,
problem I reckon, you solve it? Or what's your style
or problem let's all get together and put up a
(28:55):
whiteboard or whatever. We'll just work out a solution together.
What's your style?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's interesting? This is this is something that's like a
live challenge that we're grappling with it with the leadership
at Aaron Williams at the moment. And collaboration is critical
because you know, we're not we're not building rocket ships.
We're making boots, albeit the best boots in the world,
(29:20):
but we are to get those to market. It takes
collaboration across multiple functions. But for me, collaboration is not
about holding hands and everyone just supporting. There is a
part of collaboration which is about really being really clear
on who's accountable, whose owner, and if you're not living
up to your part of the collaboration in the journey,
(29:43):
you've got to be held to account. And so there's
a there's a really fine balance between making sure that
we are collaborating and communicating, but we're also holding each
other to account to achieve the outcome that we need
to achieve.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
If you go back to ninety thirty two, old redg
would have been if you looked, if you can get
him to look forward into twenty twenty five, he'd be going,
oh my god, like I can't believe everybody's so sensitive,
because it would have been an imagine. It would have
been a pretty gruff environment in those days in prospecting,
just outside of Adelaide, making boots for whoever you are
(30:19):
making boods for, and it would have been just a
matter of shit, let's just get this thing done or
worry about however it feels later. But today, how do
you you're a young man, but relatively speaking, I'm talking
about how do you balance up people with different generations,
(30:42):
their expectations of how you should be as a leader
with how you might have been brought up yourself as leader,
because I can imagine working in the mckinseyes of the
world and getting caught into who whever, some firm which
which is a big organization dealing with the sea, and
especially I it was banks and stuff. But back in
the day, they just said, listen, I know, I'm going
to pay you a cup lot of money. You better
(31:05):
you the consultant, better bloody give me the answers I'm
looking for. And there was no you know, no one
was worried about their p's and q's. You got brought
up in a different environment. And by the way, even
tweeting that like their miners, like he might be different
today to what he wrought, it would have been. I
know Andrew, and I remember what he was like. You know,
(31:26):
back in the eighties when I was at a certa
law firm, we sort of work for these organizations and
it was people were sort of and he was West
Australian too, at least in Sydney a little bit more.
Westra was different to Sydney. Put it that way, I
still love the West Trains. Actually lived over there for
a while. We did a lot of work for Alan
(31:46):
Bond in those days and a lot of other guys Westralia.
I lived there for years because you know, I was
doing a case. I went over to the case literally
for one week, and I was saying for three years.
The case took that long, and we get a whole
lot of new clients as well. And one of the
things I did notice is that where strains were fairly straightforward,
straight to the point, did stuff around. I wouldn't call
(32:10):
them insensity, but it could have been interpreted that way.
I was probably a bit of the way that the
same myself. How do you balance that up that being
brought up in that and being a leader today.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
That's a great question. And again I think one of
one of the biggest things I've learned in leadership is that,
like people often ask that question, the leader is born
or they made. And I'm a firmer leader that leadership
like all things, as a craft. And I go home
at night sometimes I think, geez, I really screwed up
with that. But it's okay because I wake up the
next day and you go at it again. I'll sort
(32:44):
of tomorrow, and so Mate, I firmly believe that, first
and foremost, it's a craft, and you get some stuff
wrong and you apologize and you move on. So I
don't think that there is also one size that fits
all as it relates to leading teams organizations. There are
moments where you have to be tougher, there are moments
(33:06):
that you have to be more supportive, and that varies
also in terms of the individual that you're dealing with.
So I don't think there's one size fits all. But
the one thing that I will come back to what
I said before is as long as you're transparent, you're honest,
and you are clear on why you are either making
(33:30):
a certain decision giving certain direction, then I think that
tends to resonate across multiple generations, irrespective of what their
background is and what they've grown up doing.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I've had to learn to become more of a listener
than at teller. I just know that for myself, I
have to be prepared to listen instead of just jumping
in and telling, and I have to be more of
an asker as opposed to an answer a question. What
blah blah blah, I suppose before I just the old days.
(34:02):
I'd walk in and say, with this what we're doing,
but go do it. Just give people tasks. It's I
grew up in a environment, in a LAWPHM where like
the senior partner if you didn't like in the eighties,
I used to wear a Paisley tie, which is I
consider it was pretty cool. I was adding my twenties,
late twenties. He pulled me up and he said, why
are you wearing that tie? You should be wearing a
(34:22):
stripe type because our clients won't think you were determined
as a as a professional person. They'll think you're He
used the word fruity wearing a Paisley tie, and I
got a shock. Like I was in my twenties, he
was in there. He would have been his mid to
late forties. Yeah, so that was and people didn't give
(34:46):
a damn how you felt. He certainly didn't because it
was his business and he wanted to run it as
tight as he could, and he knew his clients better
than anybody. It's just very interesting how the world's changed
and leadership itself has changed is quite significantly. And obviously
the Aaron Williams brand, whilst it was set up by
Reggie Williams at ninety ft to two, which was a
different totally different new to what we are now. It's
(35:08):
still the same brand, but with leadership that's appropriate.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
We'd like to think. So we'd like to think so.
One of the things that as you were saying that
during my time with Nike, and this might have been
part of the time that I was there too, but
there was a lot of talk about servant leadership and
the whole thing that's underlying that leadership philosophy is that
leaders are meant to be in the background. You meant
(35:36):
to be there in listening, in support of others, and
it's not about and there's something there's something about that
that I think we come back to how we started
this conversation with Reg Williams. Most Australians know who Aaron
Williams is. Very few could pick him out of a lineup,
and Reg applied though. He was a great listener, he
was a great supporter, he was a great enabler. He's
(35:58):
sort of it's almost that leadership that leads from behind
in some ways, and so that is definitely part of
I think the DNA of the brand and what we
are still trying to achieve today. I certainly don't engage
in doing things like we're doing right here today.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Mark Very often it's definitely work in progress for these things.
And a great thing about is you're prepared to learn
as you go to that that's pretty important. Good. I
just talk about how many stores you've got Astraina now
fifty five stores? Do you cover every state every week.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Cover every trading and globally so we are New Zealand
and the UK.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
So we.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Since so I started shortly after the Forest took over
the brand, and at that time we were really struggling
to fulfill demand in Australia and it's been a journey
of really investing in ramping up what's been done in
South Australia to the point where it's only really been
the last nine months that we're making a concerted push
(37:01):
into the UK and sort of have more global ambitions.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Because you couldn't you couldn't satisfy the supply chain in
relation to any demand. Yes you are, in other words,
if someone wants to buy the boots, so that you've
got to be able to deliver the exactly and therefore
you've got to get it made exactly. So if I
go back on the supply chain side, in terms of
inputs into for example, boot or belts.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Leather, leather is the biggest.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I don't know what else. What's the bottom made of leather?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, so different types of let's say some of the
components that we've got to go into a boot. You've
got your leather uppers, you've got the elastic, you've got
the tugs which make out a nylon. You've got some
of the rubber in the heel, You've got wax, and
you've got cork which is used for some of the
cushioning that makes the boots so comfortable, stitching and the stitching.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
So the raw materials are you still proudly able to
say that they're Australian source.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Some of it is, not all of it is, but
that it never actually has been. So one of the
things that reg was amazing at doing was he broadly
made it in Australia, but he was unashavably going and
sourcing the best materials from around the world. So you
reference the wax jacket before. He was getting that from
the UK back in the day, because that's where the
(38:20):
best was coming from. So he was very resourceful in
terms of just choosing the best leathers, and we do
the same today. So we do have leathers that come
we have heritage tanneries in the UK. We get we
get a lot of our supply from from from Australia
and we get a lot from New Zealand. So it's
for us what's most important is making sure we've got
(38:42):
the right components and then we're building them the right way.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And in terms of and this is an Australia thing there,
but the slavery actor, do you sort of ensure that
these things are not sourced from that?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
We lean him very heavily leave And so there is
I'm not sure how far down it goes, but most
organizations over a certain side have to complete a public
statement called the Modern State Modern Slavery Statement.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
We do it in our own firm too, so yeah,
you have to do it.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
And this statement is really about making sure that we
as a brand are accountable for the boots that we produce.
We need to make sure that we know that if
we are sourcing materials or components anywhere in the world,
that we know where it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Some twelve year old kid in slave labor exactly learning
you know, one ring at an hour or something for
doing the work. That's sort of what we thok about.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's exactly. It's exactly that it's got to do with
making sure we first of all we know exactly where
it's coming, we have transparency over our supply chain, and
then we know that, Yeah, the conditions in those partners
that we are working with, we're proud to work.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
With and they stand by Australian standards, by Australian standard, Yeah, yeah,
and it's fair at the end of the day. Exactly,
it's fair and I think for me that's really important
to know that. And so but you're still you might
source some of the inputs, but is it still put
it together? Made? Would have been cooled.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
It goes through it goes through eighty pairs of hands
in Salisbury and South Australia. And we've actually just restarted
tours of the workshops. If anyone's interested in actually going
and seeing how boot gets made, you welcome together. Is
it on your Websits on our website, a video or
something like that. Yeah, there's I mean, we've got various
(40:47):
videos up that show that the process. But there's nothing
like actually going and seeing it because it's not just
the construction process. But we've got such an incredible team
down there that are so proud of showing off that
beautiful craft and so they genuinely love it when people
come and visit and engage. And it's pretty unique because
you can actually just genuinely walk the lines and obviously
(41:08):
with someone you can't just randomly walk in there, but
but you can see see how it's made, what's going on.
So we pride ourselves and this has been you know,
also a part of the DNA of the brand and
being a very transparent, very transparent brand. And so yeah,
that all happens in Salisbury and South Australia.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
That's cool. And how many skews would you guys have.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
That that?
Speaker 1 (41:31):
You know, in other words product lines, Oh you're testing me.
We're just took about boots and you know belts.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
At the moment, it's it's it's it's it's thousands when
it accumulates over over seasons between boots where we do
everything from boots, belts, other leather goods apparel.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
So we've got pants, t shirts.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, we've got a we've got a wide range and
a big chunk of it is uh what we described
as core like things that have stood the test of time.
And then we continue to innovate through seasonal iterations and
just trying to there's a big push at the moment
to just try and elevate the quality of the full
product offering, so apparel, other types of other goods, bags,
(42:15):
that sort of thing back to what we think is
taking it forward but honoring the past. That's sort of
the tightrope that we're trying to balance.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Many years ago, I had a business in India. Background,
I had a business in India and ice other every
four or five weeks and it's been a week there.
This is a pre GFC and all the stuff are
Indian and we had like six hundred staff there or something.
And my senior guy there for shall panded his name
(42:45):
for shell pandit was a Sikh, like a tour guy
over the turbinal, a highly religious guy. But you know,
he ran the whole business for us, and I wanted
to buy him something astrain, so I brought him a
fan of what so shoesy as from one of the
stuff they told me to socials, And when I went
over there, I bought him some pair of iron Williams.
(43:05):
Actually got a pair of black ones made black because
I like the black h what do you call it?
Not black? Yeah, so don't pair of black swaye one
same as mine? Because he was looking at mine once
and he said they had nice boots, mister Mark were
in nice boots. And so I bought him pair his size,
(43:27):
and I gave him to him, and somehow he knew
that the boots that I was wearing were Aaron Williams.
I'd never told him, he never asked me. And then
when I gave him the roon Williams, the boots I
took him out of the box was too Bockley Carriages
had him in my bag. So I took him out
my bag and gave him to him. He knew there
were and Williams. He didn't look at the the thing
(43:48):
you pull up what do you call the thing the tug.
He didn't look at the tug. He just knew there
are and Williams. He must have and he was so happy,
Oh my god, he was over the moon, like really
over the moon. And this is a guy living in
those days. Our office was in Delhi, New Delhi. But
he was from Budjab in India and somehow he knew
this whole story and then he started talking to me
(44:09):
about their own Williams brand.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
You asked earlier, is there is there a tourist trail
or a pilgrimage to that five Percy Street store and
Posh Prospect, Well, the Indian cricket team and the Stunty
cricket team frequent there. The team were all excitedly showing
around photos of Bora in there buying buying iron.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
That's interesting because we were because my business was we
own part of a business at General Electric owned and
one of the biggest you g g was one of
the biggest companies in the world at the time, and
they were a big sponsor of the Indian cricket side. Yeah,
and I can't remember which is the captain of the
Indian time team at the time. He was personally sponsored
by General Electric And so it may be that Verschell
(44:50):
had seen this guy's wearing the boots.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
And it's fascinating even the efforts that we're doing at
the moment with the expansion in the UK, like the
thing that makes me personally so proud being over there
or hearing stories like this is that there is a
deep level of respect for the brand and what we're about,
even though we don't have a strong presence outside of Australia,
(45:16):
but there is a real respect for who we are
and what we do, which as Australians we should be
very proud of.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
There's two things and I know it's on an Australian brand,
but there's two things that particularly in the prome reduction world,
like you know in farms, that I always think of
when it comes when it comes to durability and things
that are nearly like a non negotiable for a farm.
It sounds silly, and I've got I've got both of them,
(45:47):
a pair of ourm william boots, in which case at
the time that we leave the boots because the sway
doesn't do too well in the rough, but leather boots
and stupidly it's got nothing to do with anything, but
it is a toy. Had a highlights who's forty years old.
It always starts it's the most reliable car in the world.
There's bloody highlus. I've got two, but the one is
(46:07):
forty years old. It's got three and eighty thousand kilminters
on it. And I just ride around the farm. We
didn't even by the registering. That's just just carrying shit around.
But it always starts. Things have fallen apart on it,
but the mode always starts no matter what. And the
boots always you're can always getting fixed repaired. I don't
send them to Prospect to get repaired these days. I
just sent them down to local boot maker. But you
can always get repair. No drama's getting sold. I like
(46:30):
to get put rubber underneath them, under the actual leather,
soul whatever it is, mainly because it's where my farmers
and be a bit slippery. But and they're like two
old favorites, silly. It's sort of like comforting to me.
And to be aligned to a brand like that, like
for you, for me anyway, in my mind, I just
(46:51):
thought about it for R and Willims boots to be
aligned to a high Lux the toy to high Lux brand,
like it's you know, globally it's the most reliable brand
cars is there.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I don't think it's a coincidence that you think about
those two things, because those two things are what help
you get stuff done, especially on on the on the
land in that example. But and I think at the
end of the day. What is what is so humbling
and amazing is we spend time in our retail stores,
(47:24):
not half the time, but so often get customers that
come in no interest in buying. They just want to
tell the story of their boots and what they're like,
what their boots, the journey that they've been on with
those boots. And I've got an email on the we
on the weekend, lovely email from it from a woman
who's originally from the UK but now living in Byron
(47:44):
and just send a photo of a boots just to
share like this. You know, this has sort of followed
my life's journey to where I am today. And there's
something about you know, life's journey that that these things
take you on. That is is why it sort of
and hit such an emotional chord with with with people.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
It was that song I think it was Jane fond
of These boots are mad made for walking. And I'm
thinking about it as you say that you have a
female brand, you have a female sort of products, I
should say that we do. And you have a co
lab with the Snoby Union we do. What's that about?
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So we've got it. We've had a history of of
partnering with Wallaby's and we reignited it this year. It's
the first time that we have explored doing licensed product
and the reason we have experimented in it is because actually,
(48:44):
what we really care about, other than the sport's great.
We actually care less about being on the laser engravers
in the stadium or being on the jerseys. What we
care about is the fan and supporting the fan. And
so we tried to create some fan gear that is
actually cool and people want to wear it and and
(49:05):
it's resonated really really well. So that's It's not something
that we're gonna always do, but we've just been.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
But yeah, as Oarren Williams, do you reckon you've been
on a bit of a tear last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, it's been. It's been. It's been a good a
good run. It's been a good run and it's come
from a lot of the team doing a lot of
hard work and yeah, but it's been We've got a
lot of we've got a lot of things to work on,
a lot of things to do. But I think at
(49:44):
least if we look at ourselves and for the customers
that we're engaging with We don't It's like we were
talking about leadership before. We're not getting it all right,
but we're moving it in the right direction in a
way that I think Rench would be proud. Our owners
are proud, and I think that's all you can or
you can ask for.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Australis proud, mate, goodness luck.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
It's not thank you,
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