October 27, 2025 • 55 mins
Mark Humphries is a journalist, author, and commentator known for his deep dives into some of Australia’s most fascinating corporate and cultural stories. In this episode, Mark sits down with him to discuss his new podcast series Skase: Fall of a Tycoon, exploring the rise and fall of Christopher Skase and the empire he built with ambition, charm, and a willingness to bend the rules.
They talk about Skase’s journey from an 18-year-old graduate with $15,000 and big dreams to the head of Qintex, the role his wife Pixie played in his rise, the high-stakes business maneuvers that defined the 1980s, and the ultimate consequences of unchecked ambition.
Mark also reflects on what Skase’s story reveals about the corporate world in the 80s, lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs, and why his tale continues to captivate decades later.
Listen to Skase: Fall of a Tycoon here: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/radionational/skase-collection/105911000
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My comphy is what went to the mentor?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Mate? Oh, thank you, Mark, this is a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Maybe you could give us a little sketch on who
am I? Yeah, well we know what you do. I
know what you do, but just for an audience.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
No, sure. So my background mainly is a sort of
political satire. So I did that for ABC seven thirty
for a few years, did it SBS, even briefly at
Channel seven. But now I'm doing a podcast. I've just
done a podcast about notorious nineteen eighties businessman Christopher Scase.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And that's what we're going to talk about today because
I'm very I knew I didn't know him. I knew
of him. I was around at the time, and I
was mid career in a professional environment, and I remember
everyone talking about him quite a lot, and in fact,
I remember going visiting some of his resorts and where
I stayed at. But we will talking about in the
(00:53):
second But in terms of satire, what do you mean
by an Australian satirist at let's say the ABC. What
is satire political satire?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, I mean, I guess it's sort of What I
was doing was two to three minute sketches and so
just observations from the week in politics.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And in a committing sense.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So yeah, So you know, obviously there was a rich
history of it with Clark and Door, and I wouldn't
dare to put myself in the same sentences.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
But I never used to understand they were talking about,
like when they used to get on. Sometimes I thought
it was very it was they were those two guys
who were quite subtle, but it was so satirical. Sometimes
I didn't quite get it.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, it was so dead pan and played so straight. Yes,
that's exactly right. And I'm so envious of them because
they got away with John Clark never had to put
on a wig or costume. He could just say I'm
Julia Gillard and you go, okay, you just accept that,
whereas you know, we were doing elaborate you know, sense
and costume and things like that. Does work working.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
On Does that mean though, that you're sort of basically
sort of you know, I don't want to undermine it,
but basically taking the pierce out of what they may
have sait or done.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's I think that's absolutely fair.
So yeah, I mean I think it's it exists in
a sort of weird space. It's almost sort of political
commentary that you're allowed to do within a news program.
I was really kind of, you know, putting across my
point of view, but you know, layering it in jokes
and characters.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I've always thought this to be interesting. And I've
heard lots of comedians talk about this, But your ability
to say things in comedy compared to say when there's
no comedy associated with it, like it's less tends to
be less offensive. Why is that? What is that that?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's just a weird contract that we have with the audience.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It's sort of a convention.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. I feel bad for journalists sometimes
because if, yes, they said essentially what I was saying
in my sketches, they'd be accused of buying and all
sort of yeah, exactly, yeah, and that's right. But there
was just like, oh no, no, this is this is part
of our culture, you know, to take the piss and
that's okay, and politicians, to their credit, largely go along
(03:13):
with it and just go this is just part of
the landscape. Then you know, there wouldn't be a huge
up or the way that yes, if a journalist were
saying the things I was saying.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Do you think it's because Mike, Do you think it's
because that the comedy says, oh, he or she's not
really being mean towards me, you know, like because they've
got comedy associated with it, therefore it's not really mean.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah. I think, well, maybe it's sort of the thing
of like, well, they're sort of making fun of the
sort of the public perception of me, but it's not
the real me. I think maybe you have to kind
of come up with some sort of way of rationalizing it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I've never I've never been out a reconciler like, I
get it. I get it. I get them, and I
don't take offense at whatever, get set them and I
don't quldn't care less. But I get that part. But
I don't understand the logic of it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, it's funny. I've had a couple of times were
policy have engaged with it and quite wisely like played
along with it. I remember doing something early when Scott
Morrison became Prime Minister. I did a sketch which I
thought was I thought was quite scathing, and then he
shared it on Twitter and said, oh I love your
work mate. I had a good laugh time. Okay, we'll played,
you know, it just it just sort of neutralizes it
(04:19):
as opposed to being antagonistic about it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And so when you do that, are you hoping for engagement?
So because it blows it up?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
No, I mean, look, it's it's a it's a happy
byproduct of it. But I'm not I'm not actively going
look at me, mister Prime Minister. I hope you see this,
but it is weirdly thrilling. Even if you were being
quite harsh.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Did you still do that?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You're still doing satire at the ABC?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, not the moment. So at the moment, I'm mainly
doing radio, so doing this podcast, and I also host
the Saturday evening show on ABC Radio and in on
ABC Sydney's breakfast program. I'm now the public Transport correspondent,
which is a sort of joke role that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I've is that for Greg you're doing doing his Because
I wake up to the news, I'm usually left before
Craig gets on.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I think starts from five point thirty.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, I do hear his voice, but I'm now going
to listen now for you. So how do you go
from being a satirist too? It looks like the series
on Scace, and I guess all things s case is
not just him the person, but everything around him probably
includes you know, his wife and family. Yeah, Pixi's in there.
(05:35):
How do you go from being a satirist to it's
nearly like an investigative journalism? Is it? Would you call
this investigative?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
What is?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I think that to the you know, to give credit
to the team that put together. I'm sort of become
the face of it, the present I'm the presenter. They've
done the research and what they wanted to do was
tell this story in a way that injected some humor.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Into it, and it's got comedy.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, so that was sort of and I was like, oh,
that's interesting. I wonder if that will work. And the
response has been absolutely fantastic. So I'm gonna I'm going
to run with the idea that it works.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Explain can you explain, Okay, explain the run a show
the way the show has been run as at lakers
series or one episode?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, so there's five episodes, you know, cameraing scates from
his early days. It was downfall, and they've the researcher's
team went away and interviewed a bunch of people from
the time. So, Darren Hinch, Warwick Kappa, have you ever
dealt with Warwick at all?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I sure have. I had him on My Celebrity Prentis show, and.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
All right, the outtakes must be quite.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Interesting that character. He's still text me from time to time.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I would love to see that. So when they said, oh,
we expect to Warwick, I said, oh, how long did
you speak to him for? And they said thirty five minutes?
I said, how much of it's usable? They said about
ten seconds.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So if you can understand it, if you're going to
understand it.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So the editors have done a fantastic job with Warwick
because it sounds really coherent and but really there's a
lot of noise around it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Can you get can you go through the format? So
what's the process? So I get this comedy in there,
and there's lots of interesting characters in there, obviously from
that period, But what do you how do you start off?
And is it already in? It?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
On?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
It?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, all for all five episodes and now on the
ABC listenerp and you know where you get your podcasts,
but you know the so the team assembled this, this
this story of of Scacees rise and fall and interview
these people, and then they brought me on. They said,
we want you to put your spin on it, so
put it in your voice and add humor where you
think is appropriate. And I think it's a nice script
(07:33):
at all. Yeah, yeah, so script it, Yeah, exactly. So
they had an outline script and then I put my own,
you know, spin on things. And it seems to have worked,
but I'm open to people telling me it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So we've got is a podcast available on YouTube as well.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
No, there's no video, just listen.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Just so let's let's just talk about episode one. I
haven't seen the show yet, but let's I will look
at it. But let's talk about episode one. So in
episode one, how do you introduce Christophers case? Is an
introduction to us to christal s case? Where he comes from?
Was his story?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, well, I mean I think the absolute start of
the series is more a particularly bizarre moment when he
is trying to escape the country. So actually start from
the sort of downfall period and then work backwards. And
so the first episode talks about his ambition, just this
(08:30):
incredible drive that he had to you know, be a
mogul and not just a media Mogel just in terms
of how he spread himself out. I think that's what's
so interesting about Skates is it's not just like a
Murdoch or what have you. Skate owned Channel seven, but
he also owned the Brisbane Bears, and he developed the
resorts in Port Douglas and Gold Coast and what have you.
(08:51):
So the first episode is sort of this this guy
who very quite methodically went about, you know, working his
way up in that space, and he brings he meets Pixie.
She becomes a big part of the story driver exactly
because she's sort of the personal branding element of it.
Of the esthetic, the look of them, you know, the
white suits and then ultimately the lavish parties. I think
(09:13):
that's you know, yeah, that's a huge part of the
Scase story, is the sort of the facade of it,
what the public saw and then what people bought into
because it looked like success.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So I don't know where he started what what was cases?
Because I mean when you look at Alan Bond, he
was a painter, like not an artist, but a painted buildings.
He had a building bounding business. What was Scace?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So Skace went, yes, in a sort of he wanted
to be a radio DJ originally, which his dad had been.
But then his dad said, you don't want to be
on the radio, you want to own the radio. And
so yes, he got interested in. He went and studied.
He went and worked as a sort of finance journalist
to kind of get a sense of the lay of
the land and sort of.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But he was a journalist, yes, so that was.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
That was part of it, but it was never but
you don't get the sense that was actually why he
was doing. It wasn't that he had he was interested in,
you know, holding truth to power or anything like that,
speaking truth to power, I should say. It was more
just what can I learn about the business world from
this angle so that I can then go and be
a corporate radar? How do I go into buying companies
(10:20):
that aren't doing well and flip them and make a
profit and go from there. So it was, yeah, it
was this raw ambition to go to the top.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You might might just give us a bit of an audience,
a bit of a funnel sketch of the eighties, by
the way, because it was done during the eighties. Was yeah, yeah,
So the eighties is a pretty interesting period in Australian
corporate history. Probably in lots of different other ways too,
but definitely in corporate history less regulated, way less regulated
than what anyone would be used to today, Like it's
(10:51):
between zero and a thousand, it's it's zero.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, And I think Scase is part of the reason that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Totally things that the part we had regularly, but ambition
and ambition was rewarded, So naked ambition was rewarded across
the board, not just for skates but lots of others. Yes,
what other things did you discover about the eighties that
we would actually probably surprise people.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Oh that's a good question. I mean, yes, just yah
from a superficial level. Yeah, it was the sort of
the era of excess and just these parties that they
would hold, you know, be four hundred thousand dollars in
nineteen eighties money. He'd fly in the cast of mash
to come along to you know, the Mirage resorts in
Queensland and yeah, so there was this whole facade going on,
(11:41):
and there these insane I think in terms of the
shocking things, things like you know, Pixie Skase wanted a
particular dress for one of these parties. She'd left it
in Melbourne so they sent the private jet to go
pick up the dress and fly back to Queensland. It's
just the dress, just to pick up a dress and jet.
You know, you can see no person, no person, you
(12:02):
can see where the money went. They wanted to put
marble in the private jet until an engineer or someone
came along and said, this thing won't.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Fly too heavy.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
That's it. So that sort of stuff, just things that
we kind of you know, I think you see, I
think Trump is sort of the classic example today where
you go there's a sort of parallel there. But yeah,
that I think that that level of excess and the
absurdity of it, I think is what's quite shocking and
I think hopefully quite amusing as well.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So was he would would would be fair to say
that in terms of the eighties in Australia, and I
guess say probably that was the case in a lot
of other places like USA, that Caase was a perfect
representative of how excess could operate.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Absolutely even just down to the hair just just.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
You know, he can describe a lot of people don't
know what scace looks like.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
No, well, I mean he had that similar similar part
of the hair to my my own and then Pixie
had big hair. It was the era of show the
pads and ruffles and yeah, it was a whole aesthetic to.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
It, the Miami Vice period, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Right, So white.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Suits, yeahs rolled up for the guys and I don't know,
I think, but he would have been tie tie and stuff.
And you mentioned that he was a journalist and his
father said, like, you should be buying the radio station,
and then he went and worked as finance He works
at Finance Journalis So so you're saying that, in terms
(13:27):
of his character or his personality, everything he did was
to have had an ultimate goal around it. So it
looks like his ambition was driving him to say, let's
try the finance world. Let me see what I can
do in the finance world. Yeah, what else?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, I think I'd be curious. I'd love to just
be able to walk around inside his head and see
really what was motivating him, because what partly became his
undoing was when he wanted to get into Hollywood. So
he'd already bought Channel seven, but he the opportunity came
up to buy MGM United Artists, you know, the James
Bond and Chin's Rocky all that sort of stuff, and
(14:02):
so he put in a crazy bid for that. It
was I think it was one point one point four billion.
Murdock then increased that bid and then Scase takes it
to two billion. Two billion. He didn't have and so
there was clearly a desire to go global, but he really,
you know, just bid off way more than he could chew.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
But most people don't realize that in the eighties there
was a lot of money floating around looking for deals.
So there was lots of financing people, yes, and a
lot of in fact, a lot of came out of banks,
particularly global banks, trying to get a foothold here in Australia.
I remember well during the period the Bond Corporation, who
(14:45):
also failed during that period, and if you remember, Bond
went and bought charl nine. Yes he care Pegger was
billion dollars and carry Peger famously brought it back in
the eighties late eighties for a couple.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Hundred million, so that you only get one Alon bond.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
On your life. But Bond Corporation, which was the purchaser,
was funded by one of the big global banks who
was establishing themselves here in Australia, and obviously they didn't
get their money back. But I think Scace probably wasn't
doing anything different to a lot of others. But perhaps
you just didn't do it as well. You know, what
(15:22):
do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Like?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Because you know, like to some extent, to some extent,
people like Space were sort of semi encouraged to make
these ridiculous bids because they knew that someone was going
to land the money.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, that's right, and I think that's where it became
this house of cards. The house of cards is that
you're borrowing to pay off your other borrowing, and then
of course interest rates went up, and then you really they.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Keeped in hard.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
They keeped him very right under the During the Hawk period,
interest rates got up to seventeen percent, which no one
can survive. That's over five years, you owe the same
amount of money that you're in interested you're borrowed in
the first place, and principle and that particularly you don't pay,
it starts compounding, so it catch up very fast, like
three years I think mathematically on that as those rates.
(16:06):
So so if Skase did his bit of finance running around,
what else did he do? What other things did his
tone to sort of get his experience and what was
his first big go.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Well, the sort of I think some of the early
investments was like buying a jewelry store, and so the
Hardy Brother's jewelry store.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Was one of the early things one here in Sydney.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And I can't remember where it was located, I'm sorry.
But and then like but elslod like car dealerships. It
was just you know, small things building up, just building
building building, and I think Channel seven is sort of
the first kind of big one. And then yeah, from
there you.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Are you saying Mike that he had lots of little things,
little average investments.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Little I mean little compared to MGM. I suppose it'd
be a big deal to me, I think.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
But then he went and then he went had a
bit of seven was but who was behind him? Like
it was someone talking to him, and.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
So he did he had there was someone who had
given him I think seventy five million dollars early on,
So there were people who believed in him. It's so
strange when you hear him speak, I don't hear what
people must have. Yeah, that thing about how some there
are certain people who in public come across one way
versus in private. He must have had some sort of
(17:19):
magnetism or charisma in person. He's a terrible interview guest
when you.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So like when he was when you're able to get
up the footage of him being interviewed as in a
public environment. Yes, was average.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I just thought he was really really ordinary. I mean,
Darren Hinch speaks in the podcast about how you'd go
to a party with him. You'd be seated next to him,
and over the course of the evening he'd say ten words.
But it might be that thing where those soft spoken,
you know men a few words that people interpret that
is enigmatic and all. This guy's mysterious, but I can't
see it myself. But clearly people were sucked into him,
(17:53):
and then they were very loyal to him. Even there
are still people who, despite everything that happened, still feel like,
you know what, he gave it a go.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And he definitely gave it to go. Well, he was
a big dude, wasn't he.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think it was. I didn't have pretty tall.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I think it's pretty tall, but I think physically might
be might have been a bit imposing, like and he
had the he had that sort of he was very
stylized to me.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Exactly he was sort of quafft quaffed exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Good as was as was Pixie.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah good had a hair, good tan.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah he had a good tan. Yeah, he had a
good tan. And it was just it was to me
very he was Australian, wasn't he was born in Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
And because I was just find amazing because I was
rude about the papers, but I found amazing that he
went from pretty basic obscurity into becoming quite like a
well known corporate guy. Was he a corporate raider in
(18:46):
any stage?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yes, I mean, I guess that's how you're describing it.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
So like he did the homes of Court style stuff
where you go make take other bids.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yes, exactly, takeovers. Absolutely, that's a huge part of it.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So do you remember any of the ones. Did you
talk about any of the episodes, some of the takes
that he conducted?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Oh gosh, I don't. I mean, because really it's what
he did with Quintex, which was started out as.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
A quintex ast Ua.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think it was I trying to think what originally
it was as a company, but he made it into
something He basically.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Became an umbrella for everything.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Everything else. But yeah, I mean like yeah, the seven
Beard was obviously a moment because he started to think
was seven Melbourne and then Sydney, and he then started
to get into trouble because there used to be I'm
not sure where the laws stand now, but it was
in terms of how many, you know, TV stations and
radio stations you could own, and and he just started
to spread himself a little too too widely, and the
(19:36):
government was like, we're not We're not, We're not happy
with that. He had to sell some things off.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, all the competition watched up probably wouldn't have liked that,
because I don't think you would ever got Channel seven
in Perth because that was owned by now Stokes, Kerry
Stokes or gold Golden Wealth, Golden the Golden West, Golden West,
which is Kerry Stokes business not anymore. But he owned
and or control Channel seven over it as it did
(20:01):
the Western Train newspaper and Skase. So he's when you
say he bid for Channel seven. Was was it owned
by public companies? Was it like an on market stock
is shaping?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I think seven had had something like seven had had
five different owners in the last seven or eight years,
and I think Fairfax had been the previous owner.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And then and then he came in and really you
know it was under him that Home and Away started.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
He got so he did some stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, he got Steve Weizard to come in and host
his late night show. He brought in Darren Hinch, who
I think at that point was doing radio, and paid
Darren a silly amount of money.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So is that how he got his people? Maybe when
you mentioned as loyalty, do you think the lord he
was as a result of the amount of dollars as Oh?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean like when with Warwick Kapper. I mean,
so Warick was playing for the Sydney Swans. Skase owns
the Brisbane Bears, so he takes Warwick up to Brisbane,
pays him one point nine million dollars in that day,
you know, I think it's about seven menion today, and
also gives Warwick a men's clothing store and a messuse.
(21:10):
So it's just you know, you could see why you
would be loyal to him, just like he was. You know,
he really looked after people.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Through money around Yeah, what problem wasn't his money? Yes,
So maybe you could talk about the whole the hotel
game when you started to playing, so you had the
I don't know what it's called the shown, but he
certainly had the resort.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Had the gold coast in Port Doug's Mirage. That's the
other extraordinary thing about this story is these names that
should be giving you a clue. It's called mirage. Like
the the the ads we play that there was a
song that was written for the ads for the mirage.
The song is called too Good to be True. Like
there's massive red flags.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
But do you think that you think he was being cute?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I don't think so, but it's just something with hindsight,
you go, oh, maybe we should have play paid closer.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
A mirage to Good to be True. And by the way, though,
I will say this, and I heard I only heard
something I was sure not but I heard PICKSI had
a lot to do with the interior decorational designs of
exactly right, and they were ahead of the time.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think she clearly had an eye. Yeah yeah.
And look, you know the Sheridan as it is now
is still gorgeous. I mean, I think there was a
crocodile turned up in the pool this week this week,
but still you still see it and even though it's
thirty something years old, you know, it's still beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So would you call him a man a vision anyway? Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, because I think, you know, I think in terms
of Port Douglas, you know, he as a very young man,
was on four Mile Beach and really had a vision
of what Port Douglas could be. And so you know,
I think we absolutely can credit him with making Port
Douglas into what it is today. Now. You can obviously
criticize the means by which he got there, but it's
(22:50):
undeniable that Port Douglas is now, you know, a huge
resort town and you know it just went gangbusters. So yes,
but that's that's yeah, that's a vision.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
He was a visionary and we had a number of
visionaries during that period, in that eighties period, and because
it was very little regulation or regulatory environments, or maybe
less policing in the regulatory environments as well, we did
we got some people who were very creative, very innovative.
(23:20):
Do you think that if you look at today against
today's backdrop, do you think that in order to have
more innovation, more creativity, we probably have to have well,
by definition, therefore, you have to have less oversight.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's a very dangerous question. I wouldn't dare weigh.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
In on that because.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Sure, yeah, no, I think that's he Look, he was
a man of his time and that time. If he
were around today, what would he actually have gotten done?
Would Port Douglas be what it is? I mean, there's
just examples of things where you know, there were sand
dunes that had that were supposed to be preserved that
were suddenly suddenly disappeared overnight. You know e is Lavish
(24:01):
property called Bromley, which was he brought to Queenslanders. He
was specifically told you cannot.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Demolish these at Poor Douglas.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
That was I don't rememb where it wasn't where else
that was in Queensland. But the point is it's just like, yes,
they disappeared. Yeah, so you know, yeah, how would he
have faed today? Probably not that well. So yeah, maybe
there is something to be said for more hands off approbate.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Because we often talk about, you know, innovation in Australia
and we want more innovation. Every country wants more innovation.
We talk about productivity. You know, you don't get productivity
without more innovation. Otherwise, if you don't have an innovation,
You just keep doing the same as you've always done
so and we don't really change that much. And sometimes
(24:48):
people like him, whilst we don't know the way he
does things, we sort of are thankful for what the
ultimate outcome is, because someone's probably gone to bought the
property for about a tenth of whatever it is he
invested in it in current terms and is renting it
out and people going and staying there enjoying themselves, and
families go other Christmas time. So you know, in some respects,
(25:13):
maybe some of the things he did was quite good
in terms of outputs.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah. No, I totally understand that argument, and I think yes,
And of course there'll be people.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Who do you think that's how he justified How did
these people justify things in the moment?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That's really interesting. Yeah. Again, I'd love to take a
walk around inside his mind. What did he That's really interesting. Yeah,
And just because I think you get the sense from
what we've heard from his family members is that they
really felt that he was certainly for the last decade
of his life when he was in Spain, that he
was hounded and you know, unfairly, yes, and that all
sort of contributed to his because he died at fifty two.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, really was it that young?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
That young?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
It was strange as well because obviously for many years
there was his claims of being ill, which you know,
no one believed, and then suddenly one day he really
was ill, but you know, cried wolf so many times.
It was quite a shock when he actually did die.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
So what what led to his final demise? It in
other words, you know, where he decided had to leave
the country.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So he had been reported to the corporate regulator because
he tried to get the Quintexs board to sign off
on a I think it was like a forty two
million dollar payment to him for quote unquote management fees.
And there was one member of the board, his name
was Ted Harris, who went the lawyer yes, well yeah,
and Ted Harris was just like a man of integrity.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Okay, I don't know him that I remembering, ye, I say.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And he was the one they went, well, I'm not
doing this. So he resigned and then reported him to
the corporate regulator. And so that sort of set the
wheels in motion.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
And then it was Musk like because Musk is trying
to get a payment of a billion dollars or something,
all right, okay, his group.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, I think we see a lot of parallels now
to what is happening in America. I don't feel like
we have the same sorts.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Of moguls or you know, or characters exactly in this country.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Sadly, sorry, sadly, I don't know if that's the right
word for it, but.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Well, from a satires's point, thank you, exactly right. Yeah, yeah,
it is sad, that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, I mean you want to get one clib.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, because you're right. In order to be a satiriss
you need characters like this, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I mean I've built my career off Dane Toby Joyce,
like you know, it's just those those big characters you need.
The dull ones are an absolute punished.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, you can't make it funny, you know, if they're
dogcau there's nothing to make funny.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I'm quite relieved to not be doing that at the moment,
because I would say that the labors be Yeah, I
think the Labor Party has a bunch of people who
are quite ordinary, and you know, they go about doing.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Their work and ordinary as in just normal people.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Exactly. Sorry, there's no judgment on the on their output,
but just rather they're not you know.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Well they're smart because they know not to be the
exactly right. They probably could be that person if if
time is allowed, and if the and if the you know,
the voting public liked it, paid attention. But now that's
not territory you want to be in. America is different.
Australia is totally opposite.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean, I think the Abbot government was a
sort of golden age in my career. You know, I
think Abbot was certainly a character in his own right,
and then you had Yes, you had boundary Joys leading
the Nationals at that point. You have people like Christopher
Pine even who were sort of odd in their own way,
the fixer, and then you had Dutton and Morrison, and
then the rivalry between Turnbull and Abbit. There was a
(28:24):
lot going on there. I think labor is being a
bit more sort of okay, everyone just calmed down, let's
not draw attention to ourselves, let's just get on with
the job. And so for a satirists, it's a wasted.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So with case did he was he got put into
the regulator, which would have been in those days the
corporate fairs commission and what happened do they did the
world come tumbling down all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, So then he had to get out and so,
which he managed to do. And there's all sorts of
I think what's extraordinary in the podcast that there must
be half a dozen times where it feels like the
net is going to drop on him and he's just
he's got one other you know, escape route or someone
on his side that's able to help him. Weird rules
(29:07):
about bankruptcy trustees, who is responsible for your passport? Things
like that it's up now that is completely clamped down on.
But again, there were all these loopholes that he was
able to squeeze through. He would have had to have
been Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He always he always seemed to
be two steps ahead.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Of well advised.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Oh no, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean I suppose so,
but I don't I don't get the sense that there
was any kind of I don't know, Svengali figure behind him,
pulling strings or anything. He seems to have survived on
his own wits.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
He didn't have a respute and sort of seeing him
behind him, sort of saying this is the way you've
got to go.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
No, not that, not that, not to my knowledge or.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
A Mackie Velly talking to the Prince. Like what I'm
trying to get to is Mint apart from the Pixie.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, exactly, I think she is the other. I mean
not to pick wi yes, not to put too much
responsibility or guilt onto her, but yeah, she was absolutely
you know, his partner and support network.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And yeah, I don't find the branding.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You think find the branding. Yes, absolutely, that seems to
be very much the case, especially when when it came
to like when he had this jewelry store, Pixie was
really useful at getting because for Skates to make his
connections in the business world, he'd want to get to
these men who didn't either didn't know who he was
or didn't respect him. But if he could get to
their wives using this jewelry store, then that was the way.
(30:30):
And so Pixie would have these you know, parties and events,
and these wives of businessmen would come along and they'd
get to take something home with them, and then they'd
go and talk to their husbands and say, Jesus, Christopher's
case guy is a bit of all right, And then
it sort of you know ingratiates himself in that way.
So I think she was very useful and you know that.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
She's still around.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
She just died last year year and she ultimately did
come back to Australia and just lived in a vent
before she died. Before she died, Yeah, I don't know
where Christopher's I don't know if Christopher ever made it
back here in Ash's former anything or if I'm not sure.
Do you have a family, So Pixie had four daughters already.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
He remarried, He married her when she'd already.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Been that's right, but they considered that he was he
was dad to those to those girls. And there is
again like when one of the daughters the family didn't
want to participate in this, but one daughter did submit
a letter just explaining, you know, the man that people
didn't get to see and what a wonderful father he was.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
So I was he like as in stepfather or he
became the royal Lakers?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, I think it's that. I think, yes, yes, technically
was a stepfather, but really became their their dad, And
so they're clearly again was love and loyalty there, you
know for those who knew him. But from the outside world,
I mean it was extremely how loathed he was, and
that the the the extent to which the extent to
which the Australian public and then ultimately the government and
(31:54):
the authorities were invested in getting him home to face justice.
You know, there's an episode where we talk about how
Andrew Denton when he hosted a show ironically on Channel
seven and I think nineteen ninety five, I was looking
to hire a bounty hunter to bring Skace back from Spain.
(32:15):
And you know, he did a fundraising campaign and viewers
raised two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to put towards
this bounty hunter, until eventually someone came along to Dandrew,
this is illegal. We don't do that.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
You can't do that. In America it would have been fine,
but but here that's a little bit too reckless.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So he escaped I think to Spain was New York. Yes,
So he escaped Spain. And what's the reason for that?
Is it because we didn't have an extra distal treaty
with Spain?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Is that I was they now they ultimately they were
able to arrange. I think we did have arrangements there,
but I think there was just too many oh gosh,
I'm sorry because.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
We also remember Mark Robert Trombali went to Spain.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Oh yes, from the I remember the name. You'll have
to remember.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Robert was the legedly the mafia guy from Griffith who
they say was responsible for the murder of one of
our politicians down there, and because you know, allegedly he
was growing illegal substances down there and you know, marijuana
or whatever was anyway, but Tromboli escaped to Spain, I think,
(33:22):
first Island, then in Spain because of some extradition rules
said he allowed him to stay there.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Okay, I think the Spanish authorities ultimately did go along
with the extradition attempts. But it was then the medical
issues that became stopped it. So Skace saying that he
had emphysema, and so he managed to find I think,
with six or seven medical experts who all came along
and said, yeah, yeah, he's too sick to travel. But
then when the Australian government sent there represented to go
(33:48):
and investigate, his feeling was this is not true, this
is not an issue at all. So yes, there were
efforts made, but there was always again sort of a
get out of gel.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Were there any any suggestion that he sent money over
there to support himself.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well, so yeah, I mean, yes he had, he would
have funneled it through. My understanding is that I think
was Pixie's father was used to help funnel some of
this money out, and then they had all the they
also sent it over all the antiques and the furniture
and all that stuff was there as well. So but look,
you know, he was living a lavish lifestyle in Spain.
(34:25):
But it would have been I think it would have
actually been deeply depressing because you're you're you're on the
run for ten years, and you know that you're always
looking over your shoulder. So it wouldn't have been a
great life.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
So because I remember seeing footage of him during that period,
I think it would have been the nineties with it, yeah,
in a wheelchair and with a face mask on, and
it was always attached to it looked like an oxygen tank. Yeah,
and it was always sort of it looked didn't look good.
He was sort of slumped over and and I also
think of himself. I just wondered, as soon as the
(34:58):
camera's off him, is he just up about sprightly walking around?
Was there something in any of the episodes around the Stuy.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yes, that's the sense that we have is that that
was really put on and you know, maybe maybe it'll
be generous. Maybe he had some mild respiratory difficulties, but
certainly not to the extent that he was portraying publicly,
because then he would be photographed getting out and about and.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
There was photographs of him being around the place.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
That's it, And I mean that's my memory of him
is just like long legs footage of him in a pool,
just like that's all I remember growing up, just going
who's this guy that every few years were checking in
on and waiting for him to come home?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Did he have some like sort of like palacial digs in?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, it was pretty good, it was. It was pretty good.
But again, like I don't know, I don't know how
you feel about that of just like what sort of
lifestyle is that. Yes, it's a beautiful home, but you
can't come back to Australia, you know, the authorities are
after you.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Was he had he been charged or like.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Oh gosh, yeah, so there were yes, So there were Gosh,
there's too many details me to try and recount them all,
but yes, there were charges, so but ultimately for nothing.
And Amanda Vanstone is actually in the podcast and she
was you know, part of the Howard government at that
time and desperately trying to get him back. And you know,
she talks about the efforts to you know, canceling his
(36:17):
passport and revoking citizenship and just forcing them into increasingly
desperate situations to try and get a result.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well why were they so desperate? Again? But what was
the situation where? Why are they want of sort of showcases?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
So, I mean because ultimately, in terms of what quintex
owed I think it was one and a half billion dollars,
Scace personally owed one hundred and seventy million dollars, there
was the feeling that this guy had not faced the music. Now,
Alan Bond for all his faults at least went to jail.
And I think that's the core difference.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I think that's the face music.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
That's it. I think because Case never did. There is
that extra element of loathing of just like, you know,
you did wrong, just deal with exponding. Ultimately bounced back.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I mean yeah, sort of to an extent, you know
it was.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
But like, yeah, I think that's what that's why why
there was there was such a feeling in the in
the community as represented by that Denton thing. So the
government felt like it had to keep pursuing this guy because, yeah,
the public wasn't ready to let it go.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Do you think that people like that during that period,
like something like him, and I don't know, I presume
you would have had some supporters around him, probably had
security and everything else. Do you think that people like that, who,
given the demise of him, actually today lay down a
(37:49):
blueprint for anybody else who may be considering doing something
on that, like taking advantage of the system. In other words,
don't do it, because that's what you're getting up.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Like, yeah, I suspect that's probably true.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I mean I don't make an example of him.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it didn't impact you at all.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I didn't do any of that, but so well, But
I wouldn't be it because I definitely thought to myself
at the time, because I was around the eighties working
in a profession environment. I remember thine himself, my god,
that would be the worst. I wasn't thinking in context
of should I copy it, but I just think to myself,
that would be the worst way to live. I just
(38:28):
can't imagine that that lifestyle. As you say, you're effectively
incarcerated in your home. Yes, in Spain it's blake me
and jail.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, it's house arrested.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You can't go anywhere, and after you walked around the
joint a half a dozen times, you're you're exactly so.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Trying not to be too sympathetic to the guy, but
I just feel like, I just don't think that was
would have been a great life.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
No, And I'm not sympathy sympathy for him, but understanding
how he might have felt. I tried. I tried to
at the time, and I remember seeing himself that would
not be anything I'd want to do. And in terms
of the terrence for the future, I mean, sure they
tighten up all the regulatory environments so it shouldn't happen
in the first place. But let's say things away slip
between the cracks. I'd say most people today would not
(39:12):
want to leave that life. And you know, if they
do do it, people still do the wrong thing, but
they sort of do it undercover now, whereas he was
way out there.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what you feel,
what the public appetite would be for someone so ostentatious
these days.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I don't know if he was ostentatious too. They both were.
And my gut feeling is today you know, you won't get.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Away with that flashing it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Was and somehow Australia has become more conservative. Well what's
acceptable is a lot a lot less.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, I think that would breed resentment that that style
of living that they were, you know, showcasing.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
What is the when the ABC wants to do this,
he goes out to do something like this, what is
the objective? Is it just because it's an interesting yarn?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah? No, I do think that is it. Because so
this this podcast falls under the umbrella of a group
called ABC Rewind and so they've previously done it was
like the Waterfront Dispute from the nineteen ninety so they're
looking at stories from that era that for those who
lived through them, it's a sort of refresher and a
kind of deep dive into some stuff and maybe that
didn't know or had forgotten. But then for younger people
(40:19):
like myself, you know, things that were sort of in
the background of our lives that we didn't understand really
what was going on. And so that's the I think
the ABC's sort of ambition with this is just to.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
A social comment though, No.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I mean you can draw, you can you can make observations.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
About you know, excess.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
The excess and being sucked in by you know, billionaires
who maybe are not being completely upfront about the questions.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Was ever a billionaire?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Like, well, exactly, yeah, that's it. I mean, that's that
was actually one of the most frustrating parts of the
podcast of writing it was. I think at certain points
wanted to kind of do a sort of status report
of what his worth was, but it was because there
was so much borrowing involved in smoking mirrors just like, well,
this is the figure that we were kind of able
to find, but we don't know really if that's if
(41:12):
that's true. So whether he ever was a billionaire, yes,
that's open to interpretation.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
He did end up only seven.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, so he bought seven. Melbourne and Sydney I think
were the two parts that he bought. And yes, but
I don't get into the weeds of just how the
seven ownership was broken up into different cities.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
But then and then he had a children MGM student.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yes, so yeah, so he wanted to go into get
into Hollywood and he flies over there and so yeah,
he's up against Murdoch and whether or not Murdoch really
was that serious about it or whether he just wanted
to see how far he could push skate because Murdoch
ultimately didn't didn't end up buying it once case fell no,
so but he got it, but he well, he won
the bid because Kirk Kuchory and who owned MGM, said sure,
(41:55):
I'll take two billion dollars again that kind of packer
bond thing of like if you're if you if you're
willing to pay that amount of money, sure I'll take it.
But then when it came to pain that first I
think it was a fifty billion dollar deposit case, he
missed it. He missed that first deposit and so.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
It deals off fell over Yeah, oh wow, Yeah, I
didn't realize that. And were there many other people in
the story like he's like he's lieutenants or his generals
or apart from people like you know, people evolved with him,
like in the TV leg during Hint et cetera. But
whether did he have like a right hand man or
woman And.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
There was also a turncoat. There's an episode where we
talk about how one of his essentially, I guess you'd
say potential sons in law. So who was you know,
with one of Skase's daughters. He got brought into the company,
was essentially a right hand man. And then when the
relationship with the daughter fell apart and the whole thing
(42:52):
fell apart, he came back to Australia with a bunch
of documents and said, right, well, here's what i've got on.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Skate really yeah, and he ended to regulate.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
So yeah, so that's part of it. That's the thing.
There's so many different avenues to this story. It is
much more fascinating and complex than I expected. I say that,
I know, I know, I'm here to plug it. I
genuinely recommend it.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
But do you think that's do you think this case?
I mean, he would know because you're not in his head.
But do you think just from observation that he regretted
in the end what happened, what he did, or how
we went perhaps how we went about it.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
That's really tough to say. I think I think there
was some remorse, Yes, I think that. My understanding is
there was an element of remorse, But I don't really
know what, if what he would thinks he would have
done differently. I think he's certainly aware of the damage
that he'd done, and also I think aware of the
damage that he'd done to his family like that was not.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
So what was the outcome of that in terms of his family.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Well, I mean because they were left with nothing, that's our understanding,
you know, and they're tarnished by that name and so
Pixie for a long time. It took ages for the
government to eventually agree to let Pixie come back so
she could just ye live out her days.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
And met his daughters.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
So I'm not sure where they're scattered now, but like
one of his daughters who had been living over in
Spain with them, they were left with nothing. And because
her husband had been her husband, Tony Larkins, had been
part of the business, then everyone came after him as well.
So you know, Scase was dead, but the family still
(44:31):
had to deal with the fallout of it. Yeah, it
was they didn't They didn't do well out of it.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
So you say he died at fifty two, that's very young.
And I recall you thinking back, you always look pretty young.
He had a young look to him. But what did
he die from?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
It was cancer?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I can't remember, but cancer.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
And cancer, and it was the family's belief that it
was the stress of being on the run for ten years.
And the family openly blamed the Australia in government for
Scas's death. But you know, I think you need to
could go a bit further back as to you know
why it was.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
So he was on the run for ten years. He
lived in Spain, was a ten.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Years, Yes, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
So so he effectively must have left you like at
forty two.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he bought Channel seven when he
was like thirty eight.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
So when you think about it, like having the strength
of character or personality or whatever the case may be,
maybe just bored ambition to go from bout thirty eighty
gone by? Oh yeah, what would have been then? In
those days Channel seven was a big business, like, yeah,
relatively speaking compared to day because you know, like audiences
(45:41):
dispersed these days that was nine and seven were the
big intent But nine and seven and ten probably in
that order, were big businesses. And for a thirty eight
year old to go and knock one of those off,
oh man.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I mean I worked briefly at Channel seven last year
and I was thirty eight. But I was just doing
a little comedy sketches. I didn't own the building business.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
But like, because you imagine those sitting over top of
it crazy did did do some of the people interview?
They did? They tell you? Was he micromanager?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Was he?
Speaker 1 (46:09):
What stolid manager? Was he?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
That's really I don't I don't get that sense, because
I did wonder about that because you know, you take
like a Murdoch for example, and there's very much a
kind of worldview that he has and you can see
it come out in terms of the content, but you
don't really get that sense other than he's interested in
what's going to work. And so he felt like, yeah,
Steve Wizard was a good, you know, viable comedy option
(46:31):
because obviously done fast forward and what have you said?
That's that. Darren Hinch was very popular on radio, So
that's that. So I don't think that he I don't
get the sense he was. I don't think the sense
he was a micromanager, but was certainly was certainly on
top of things and certainly had a vision. But one
spoke quite highly of him from the seventh like Jennifer Kite, newsreader,
(46:51):
really speaks quite glowingly of him.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
So so he maybe he was just a good owner,
because some people just like to own everything. Yes, yeah,
so he the lines that it was what did you
do in the AFL.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
So yeah, so the Brisbane Bears is the teens people. Yeah,
and so.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
He had the Bears, he had Channel seven, he had the.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Mirage results, Mirage what else, and then there would have
been a bunch of other things under quintechs.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Quintext whatever Quintex is doing, which he took over. Yeah,
as I recall, Quintex was a big public company, a
big list of public company. There you're controlled. So and
then it was quite amazing that so he must have
it was forty two, fifty forty two many left, so
he had done all this between the age of let's
call it twenty two and forty two. Yeah, that's a
(47:37):
lot of stuff to accumulate.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, no, it is, it is, it is.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
There's probably no other way you could do that as
you borrow money.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yes. So yeah, he had people that backed him and
believed him, believed in him, and you know and Andy, Yeah,
and he was you know, he made a success of
the things that he did until he didn't until until
he just kind of.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Well Channel seven would have been successful just so he
probably couldn't pay.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
The interesting yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah was a good company, but he just pro could
pay the interest bill and then and then Marja, the
results are great results, but they probably just can't play
the interest and.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Then but just also just the wasteed, just just the
absolute waste of expenses.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
For the excess of indulgence. Well, maybe I'm just sort
of getting a sense of the guys you talk to me.
But maybe he was smart to be able to identify
good assets because it wasn't if he tried to build
a business that never made any money. No, exactly, they
were good assets. Yes, he's undoing might have been his
(48:34):
indulgent lifestyle, but also of recklessness around how am I
going to service the debt?
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yes, it is the classic flying too close to the
sun sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Icorous.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, that's so wings the exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yes, it's very interesting. And so he died from cancer ultimately,
And where do you finish off this this what's last episode?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Well, that's yeah, so the very final bits is talking
about some of the changes that were made and in
terms of like what you talked about regular sciatory stuff,
and just yeah, where his some of his family members
ended up, and just generally just some of the recollections
of people who still who still felt loyal to him
after all these years. And it's I think it's quite
a gentle ending in the sense of we read out
(49:23):
a letter that one of his daughters sent to us,
and so we do take you know, we're not you
know exactly that's it. It really is going. Okay, look,
obviously he did these things, but at the end of
the day, he was still a family man and a
father and people loved him, and we try, we try,
and you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Fascinating and just reminder with my comedy episodes, we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
The five episodes available on so yeah on all the apps,
but yeah, exact all the apps, and I think ABC
probably would love you to listen to it on the
ABC Listen app, but otherwise Spotify is fine.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Well that's fascinating and any more projects coming.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Up, so I'm doing so if you'd like to listen
every Saturday evening, I'm doing ABC Radio on ABC Local Radio.
I just did a documentary earlier this year about the
housing crisis, which is on Binge that's called sold Who
broke the Australian dream, so please consume that if you
still have binge.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah yeah, some people do, Yeah exactly, we get as
part of the packages.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Now anyway, I must have binge that lost a lot
when HBO Max came along.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah yah yeah, but it's up on binge. But any
new projects coming up?
Speaker 2 (50:34):
And then what is the next thing? In twenty twenty
six doing a review at the Ensemble Theater in Sydney.
So it's myself, Chris Taylor and Andrew Hansen from The
Chaser and Christy Wieling and Brown who.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Used to be on as Live.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, so we don't go to do a live show
and it's scary probably too.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
How do you feel about being live?
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I love it. To get that immediate response from an
audience is wonderful. There's something about you know, because a
sketch that I've made in the past, you put them
out online, you get likes, retweets, shares, whatever. It doesn't
feel the same as that wave of a laugh washing
over you. So the live stuff is fantastic, But yes
it's much more of a high wire act and of
(51:14):
course inevitably there's one night where it goes it's just
it's not working.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, I just don't know how you guys do it.
I really honestly don't know how to comedian can do it,
especially sent in front of an audience, live audience, and
run the risk of stuff and things up.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
But you must have done some many live speeches.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
And yes speeches, yes, but it's controlled like I'm not
looking for a response. I'm looking for a clap at
the end, but and I am looking at the audience
for them to be engaged, but to get them.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
To laugh, just sprinkle some jokes. Isn't that do you?
Speaker 3 (51:42):
No?
Speaker 1 (51:42):
No, I don't know. Occasionally do but it's very very rare.
Mine's usually about the economy or something like that, but
pretty dry. I can't make your jokes about some parts
of the economy, but they get But your whole show
is about getting people's you know, laughter. That would be tough.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
That's the joy. The risk of it is the joy.
I think that's and also sometimes acknowledging when it doesn't work's.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Go what do you say? What do you say when
that happens?
Speaker 2 (52:06):
So well? I do, I do a lot. I also
do a lot of corporate gigs, so I host a
lot of awards nights and things, and sometimes I'll go
for something and I'll get a oh what have you?
And I'll just say I took a risk. I just
like I'll be honest with you. I just I didn't
know if you were ready for that. I put it
out there. That's fine.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Well, Mark Humphrey's a comedian, satirist, writer, actor, and as
you say, best known for your satirical political rhetoric. I
could be your joke, right, I probably need one, And look,
good luck with the series Christmas Case. I find I'm
(52:42):
glad someone's actually done something about him finally, because he's
sort of one of the forgotten corporate guys from the eighties.
For some reason, he got forgotten.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yes, yes, that's it.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
All the others get still get talked about, but he
got forgotten and most people don't know it was the
eighties in this country was mental. People think that things
are wild now eighty from nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety
something early nineties, when the interest rates really kicked up
harder than at which point everybody no one survived. But
(53:15):
that eighties period was fueled by excess cash, indulgence, excess
everything lunches. Friday lunches. Famous story about al Bonnie Scatter
a restaurant in Perth on Fridays called the med and Mediterranean,
and he would be surrounded by his entourage, some of
whom no longer with us, and including himself, and every Friday,
(53:39):
if he was in town, every Friday lunch started at
twelve and went through to midnight. And that was normal.
That was normal.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
And that's the sense I get from the advertising world
as well.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
Yeah, the advertisers do the same thing that the advertising
agents or what you've called the guys around worked in
advertising agencies, you know, like that movie that Serious Suits,
That's what the sort of all about, and that actually happened.
And now on Miami vice thing. That world existed because
I was arouseding by thirty during that period, and I
remember it. I remember people were like, WHOA, what's going on?
(54:13):
And the and I remember one of the ways that
the government tried to stop it was introduced the fringe
benefits tax for entertainment. So you you, if you were
somehow claiming a tax reduction for the expense, you, the
people who got the benefit of it had to pay tax.
The individuals who got funded to go that for that
for that event. And then what they did then is
(54:34):
they just completely wiped out all entertainment expenses. No more
so if you put on a fund a fun day,
I should say, on a Friday afternoon, you paid a
lot of people come along to your event, and you
were putting lunch on. No tax reduction and that that,
and of course it killed the restaurant industry because the
restaurant industry was surviving off the back of these days.
(54:55):
Friday was the day they made all the day because
I was selling booze, and the booze the more boos
because you're going to eat once in that period from
twelve to twelve we might have twice, but once maybe.
But one thing you did do is you kept drinking,
and that's where the money was made.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Do you miss it?
Speaker 1 (55:10):
No, I don't miss it. I don't drink, so I
don't miss it at all. But like and it was
the greatest waste of time of all kinds my country,
Thanks very much,
My comphy is what went to the mentor?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Mate? Oh, thank you, Mark, this is a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Maybe you could give us a little sketch on who
am I? Yeah, well we know what you do. I
know what you do, but just for an audience.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
No, sure. So my background mainly is a sort of
political satire. So I did that for ABC seven thirty
for a few years, did it SBS, even briefly at
Channel seven. But now I'm doing a podcast. I've just
done a podcast about notorious nineteen eighties businessman Christopher Scase.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And that's what we're going to talk about today because
I'm very I knew I didn't know him. I knew
of him. I was around at the time, and I
was mid career in a professional environment, and I remember
everyone talking about him quite a lot, and in fact,
I remember going visiting some of his resorts and where
I stayed at. But we will talking about in the
(00:53):
second But in terms of satire, what do you mean
by an Australian satirist at let's say the ABC. What
is satire political satire?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, I mean, I guess it's sort of What I
was doing was two to three minute sketches and so
just observations from the week in politics.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And in a committing sense.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So yeah, So you know, obviously there was a rich
history of it with Clark and Door, and I wouldn't
dare to put myself in the same sentences.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
But I never used to understand they were talking about,
like when they used to get on. Sometimes I thought
it was very it was they were those two guys
who were quite subtle, but it was so satirical. Sometimes
I didn't quite get it.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, it was so dead pan and played so straight. Yes,
that's exactly right. And I'm so envious of them because
they got away with John Clark never had to put
on a wig or costume. He could just say I'm
Julia Gillard and you go, okay, you just accept that,
whereas you know, we were doing elaborate you know, sense
and costume and things like that. Does work working.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
On Does that mean though, that you're sort of basically
sort of you know, I don't want to undermine it,
but basically taking the pierce out of what they may
have sait or done.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's I think that's absolutely fair.
So yeah, I mean I think it's it exists in
a sort of weird space. It's almost sort of political
commentary that you're allowed to do within a news program.
I was really kind of, you know, putting across my
point of view, but you know, layering it in jokes
and characters.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I've always thought this to be interesting. And I've
heard lots of comedians talk about this, But your ability
to say things in comedy compared to say when there's
no comedy associated with it, like it's less tends to
be less offensive. Why is that? What is that that?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's just a weird contract that we have with the audience.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It's sort of a convention.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. I feel bad for journalists sometimes
because if, yes, they said essentially what I was saying
in my sketches, they'd be accused of buying and all
sort of yeah, exactly, yeah, and that's right. But there
was just like, oh no, no, this is this is part
of our culture, you know, to take the piss and
that's okay, and politicians, to their credit, largely go along
(03:13):
with it and just go this is just part of
the landscape. Then you know, there wouldn't be a huge
up or the way that yes, if a journalist were
saying the things I was saying.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Do you think it's because Mike, Do you think it's
because that the comedy says, oh, he or she's not
really being mean towards me, you know, like because they've
got comedy associated with it, therefore it's not really mean.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah. I think, well, maybe it's sort of the thing
of like, well, they're sort of making fun of the
sort of the public perception of me, but it's not
the real me. I think maybe you have to kind
of come up with some sort of way of rationalizing it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I've never I've never been out a reconciler like, I
get it. I get it. I get them, and I
don't take offense at whatever, get set them and I
don't quldn't care less. But I get that part. But
I don't understand the logic of it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, it's funny. I've had a couple of times were
policy have engaged with it and quite wisely like played
along with it. I remember doing something early when Scott
Morrison became Prime Minister. I did a sketch which I
thought was I thought was quite scathing, and then he
shared it on Twitter and said, oh I love your
work mate. I had a good laugh time. Okay, we'll played,
you know, it just it just sort of neutralizes it
(04:19):
as opposed to being antagonistic about it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And so when you do that, are you hoping for engagement?
So because it blows it up?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
No, I mean, look, it's it's a it's a happy
byproduct of it. But I'm not I'm not actively going
look at me, mister Prime Minister. I hope you see this,
but it is weirdly thrilling. Even if you were being
quite harsh.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Did you still do that?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You're still doing satire at the ABC?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, not the moment. So at the moment, I'm mainly
doing radio, so doing this podcast, and I also host
the Saturday evening show on ABC Radio and in on
ABC Sydney's breakfast program. I'm now the public Transport correspondent,
which is a sort of joke role that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I've is that for Greg you're doing doing his Because
I wake up to the news, I'm usually left before
Craig gets on.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I think starts from five point thirty.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, I do hear his voice, but I'm now going
to listen now for you. So how do you go
from being a satirist too? It looks like the series
on Scace, and I guess all things s case is
not just him the person, but everything around him probably
includes you know, his wife and family. Yeah, Pixi's in there.
(05:35):
How do you go from being a satirist to it's
nearly like an investigative journalism? Is it? Would you call
this investigative?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
What is?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I think that to the you know, to give credit
to the team that put together. I'm sort of become
the face of it, the present I'm the presenter. They've
done the research and what they wanted to do was
tell this story in a way that injected some humor.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Into it, and it's got comedy.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, so that was sort of and I was like, oh,
that's interesting. I wonder if that will work. And the
response has been absolutely fantastic. So I'm gonna I'm going
to run with the idea that it works.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Explain can you explain, Okay, explain the run a show
the way the show has been run as at lakers
series or one episode?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, so there's five episodes, you know, cameraing scates from
his early days. It was downfall, and they've the researcher's
team went away and interviewed a bunch of people from
the time. So, Darren Hinch, Warwick Kappa, have you ever
dealt with Warwick at all?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I sure have. I had him on My Celebrity Prentis show, and.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
All right, the outtakes must be quite.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Interesting that character. He's still text me from time to time.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I would love to see that. So when they said, oh,
we expect to Warwick, I said, oh, how long did
you speak to him for? And they said thirty five minutes?
I said, how much of it's usable? They said about
ten seconds.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So if you can understand it, if you're going to
understand it.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So the editors have done a fantastic job with Warwick
because it sounds really coherent and but really there's a
lot of noise around it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Can you get can you go through the format? So
what's the process? So I get this comedy in there,
and there's lots of interesting characters in there, obviously from
that period, But what do you how do you start off?
And is it already in? It?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
On?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
It?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, all for all five episodes and now on the
ABC listenerp and you know where you get your podcasts,
but you know the so the team assembled this, this
this story of of Scacees rise and fall and interview
these people, and then they brought me on. They said,
we want you to put your spin on it, so
put it in your voice and add humor where you
think is appropriate. And I think it's a nice script
(07:33):
at all. Yeah, yeah, so script it, Yeah, exactly. So
they had an outline script and then I put my own,
you know, spin on things. And it seems to have worked,
but I'm open to people telling me it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So we've got is a podcast available on YouTube as well.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
No, there's no video, just listen.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Just so let's let's just talk about episode one. I
haven't seen the show yet, but let's I will look
at it. But let's talk about episode one. So in
episode one, how do you introduce Christophers case? Is an
introduction to us to christal s case? Where he comes from?
Was his story?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, well, I mean I think the absolute start of
the series is more a particularly bizarre moment when he
is trying to escape the country. So actually start from
the sort of downfall period and then work backwards. And
so the first episode talks about his ambition, just this
(08:30):
incredible drive that he had to you know, be a
mogul and not just a media Mogel just in terms
of how he spread himself out. I think that's what's
so interesting about Skates is it's not just like a
Murdoch or what have you. Skate owned Channel seven, but
he also owned the Brisbane Bears, and he developed the
resorts in Port Douglas and Gold Coast and what have you.
(08:51):
So the first episode is sort of this this guy
who very quite methodically went about, you know, working his
way up in that space, and he brings he meets Pixie.
She becomes a big part of the story driver exactly
because she's sort of the personal branding element of it.
Of the esthetic, the look of them, you know, the
white suits and then ultimately the lavish parties. I think
(09:13):
that's you know, yeah, that's a huge part of the
Scase story, is the sort of the facade of it,
what the public saw and then what people bought into
because it looked like success.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So I don't know where he started what what was cases?
Because I mean when you look at Alan Bond, he
was a painter, like not an artist, but a painted buildings.
He had a building bounding business. What was Scace?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So Skace went, yes, in a sort of he wanted
to be a radio DJ originally, which his dad had been.
But then his dad said, you don't want to be
on the radio, you want to own the radio. And
so yes, he got interested in. He went and studied.
He went and worked as a sort of finance journalist
to kind of get a sense of the lay of
the land and sort of.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But he was a journalist, yes, so that was.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
That was part of it, but it was never but
you don't get the sense that was actually why he
was doing. It wasn't that he had he was interested in,
you know, holding truth to power or anything like that,
speaking truth to power, I should say. It was more
just what can I learn about the business world from
this angle so that I can then go and be
a corporate radar? How do I go into buying companies
(10:20):
that aren't doing well and flip them and make a
profit and go from there. So it was, yeah, it
was this raw ambition to go to the top.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You might might just give us a bit of an audience,
a bit of a funnel sketch of the eighties, by
the way, because it was done during the eighties. Was yeah, yeah,
So the eighties is a pretty interesting period in Australian
corporate history. Probably in lots of different other ways too,
but definitely in corporate history less regulated, way less regulated
than what anyone would be used to today, Like it's
(10:51):
between zero and a thousand, it's it's zero.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, And I think Scase is part of the reason that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Totally things that the part we had regularly, but ambition
and ambition was rewarded, So naked ambition was rewarded across
the board, not just for skates but lots of others. Yes,
what other things did you discover about the eighties that
we would actually probably surprise people.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Oh that's a good question. I mean, yes, just yah
from a superficial level. Yeah, it was the sort of
the era of excess and just these parties that they
would hold, you know, be four hundred thousand dollars in
nineteen eighties money. He'd fly in the cast of mash
to come along to you know, the Mirage resorts in
Queensland and yeah, so there was this whole facade going on,
(11:41):
and there these insane I think in terms of the
shocking things, things like you know, Pixie Skase wanted a
particular dress for one of these parties. She'd left it
in Melbourne so they sent the private jet to go
pick up the dress and fly back to Queensland. It's
just the dress, just to pick up a dress and jet.
You know, you can see no person, no person, you
(12:02):
can see where the money went. They wanted to put
marble in the private jet until an engineer or someone
came along and said, this thing won't.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Fly too heavy.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
That's it. So that sort of stuff, just things that
we kind of you know, I think you see, I
think Trump is sort of the classic example today where
you go there's a sort of parallel there. But yeah,
that I think that that level of excess and the
absurdity of it, I think is what's quite shocking and
I think hopefully quite amusing as well.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So was he would would would be fair to say
that in terms of the eighties in Australia, and I
guess say probably that was the case in a lot
of other places like USA, that Caase was a perfect
representative of how excess could operate.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Absolutely even just down to the hair just just.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
You know, he can describe a lot of people don't
know what scace looks like.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
No, well, I mean he had that similar similar part
of the hair to my my own and then Pixie
had big hair. It was the era of show the
pads and ruffles and yeah, it was a whole aesthetic to.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
It, the Miami Vice period, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Right, So white.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Suits, yeahs rolled up for the guys and I don't know,
I think, but he would have been tie tie and stuff.
And you mentioned that he was a journalist and his
father said, like, you should be buying the radio station,
and then he went and worked as finance He works
at Finance Journalis So so you're saying that, in terms
(13:27):
of his character or his personality, everything he did was
to have had an ultimate goal around it. So it
looks like his ambition was driving him to say, let's
try the finance world. Let me see what I can
do in the finance world. Yeah, what else?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, I think I'd be curious. I'd love to just
be able to walk around inside his head and see
really what was motivating him, because what partly became his
undoing was when he wanted to get into Hollywood. So
he'd already bought Channel seven, but he the opportunity came
up to buy MGM United Artists, you know, the James
Bond and Chin's Rocky all that sort of stuff, and
(14:02):
so he put in a crazy bid for that. It
was I think it was one point one point four billion.
Murdock then increased that bid and then Scase takes it
to two billion. Two billion. He didn't have and so
there was clearly a desire to go global, but he really,
you know, just bid off way more than he could chew.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
But most people don't realize that in the eighties there
was a lot of money floating around looking for deals.
So there was lots of financing people, yes, and a
lot of in fact, a lot of came out of banks,
particularly global banks, trying to get a foothold here in Australia.
I remember well during the period the Bond Corporation, who
(14:45):
also failed during that period, and if you remember, Bond
went and bought charl nine. Yes he care Pegger was
billion dollars and carry Peger famously brought it back in
the eighties late eighties for a couple.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Hundred million, so that you only get one Alon bond.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
On your life. But Bond Corporation, which was the purchaser,
was funded by one of the big global banks who
was establishing themselves here in Australia, and obviously they didn't
get their money back. But I think Scace probably wasn't
doing anything different to a lot of others. But perhaps
you just didn't do it as well. You know, what
(15:22):
do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Like?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Because you know, like to some extent, to some extent,
people like Space were sort of semi encouraged to make
these ridiculous bids because they knew that someone was going
to land the money.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, that's right, and I think that's where it became
this house of cards. The house of cards is that
you're borrowing to pay off your other borrowing, and then
of course interest rates went up, and then you really they.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Keeped in hard.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
They keeped him very right under the During the Hawk period,
interest rates got up to seventeen percent, which no one
can survive. That's over five years, you owe the same
amount of money that you're in interested you're borrowed in
the first place, and principle and that particularly you don't pay,
it starts compounding, so it catch up very fast, like
three years I think mathematically on that as those rates.
(16:06):
So so if Skase did his bit of finance running around,
what else did he do? What other things did his
tone to sort of get his experience and what was
his first big go.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Well, the sort of I think some of the early
investments was like buying a jewelry store, and so the
Hardy Brother's jewelry store.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Was one of the early things one here in Sydney.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And I can't remember where it was located, I'm sorry.
But and then like but elslod like car dealerships. It
was just you know, small things building up, just building
building building, and I think Channel seven is sort of
the first kind of big one. And then yeah, from
there you.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Are you saying Mike that he had lots of little things,
little average investments.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Little I mean little compared to MGM. I suppose it'd
be a big deal to me, I think.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
But then he went and then he went had a
bit of seven was but who was behind him? Like
it was someone talking to him, and.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
So he did he had there was someone who had
given him I think seventy five million dollars early on,
So there were people who believed in him. It's so
strange when you hear him speak, I don't hear what
people must have. Yeah, that thing about how some there
are certain people who in public come across one way
versus in private. He must have had some sort of
(17:19):
magnetism or charisma in person. He's a terrible interview guest
when you.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So like when he was when you're able to get
up the footage of him being interviewed as in a
public environment. Yes, was average.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I just thought he was really really ordinary. I mean,
Darren Hinch speaks in the podcast about how you'd go
to a party with him. You'd be seated next to him,
and over the course of the evening he'd say ten words.
But it might be that thing where those soft spoken,
you know men a few words that people interpret that
is enigmatic and all. This guy's mysterious, but I can't
see it myself. But clearly people were sucked into him,
(17:53):
and then they were very loyal to him. Even there
are still people who, despite everything that happened, still feel like,
you know what, he gave it a go.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And he definitely gave it to go. Well, he was
a big dude, wasn't he.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think it was. I didn't have pretty tall.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I think it's pretty tall, but I think physically might
be might have been a bit imposing, like and he
had the he had that sort of he was very
stylized to me.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Exactly he was sort of quafft quaffed exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Good as was as was Pixie.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah good had a hair, good tan.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah he had a good tan. Yeah, he had a
good tan. And it was just it was to me
very he was Australian, wasn't he was born in Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
And because I was just find amazing because I was
rude about the papers, but I found amazing that he
went from pretty basic obscurity into becoming quite like a
well known corporate guy. Was he a corporate raider in
(18:46):
any stage?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yes, I mean, I guess that's how you're describing it.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
So like he did the homes of Court style stuff
where you go make take other bids.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yes, exactly, takeovers. Absolutely, that's a huge part of it.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So do you remember any of the ones. Did you
talk about any of the episodes, some of the takes
that he conducted?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Oh gosh, I don't. I mean, because really it's what
he did with Quintex, which was started out as.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
A quintex ast Ua.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think it was I trying to think what originally
it was as a company, but he made it into
something He basically.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Became an umbrella for everything.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Everything else. But yeah, I mean like yeah, the seven
Beard was obviously a moment because he started to think
was seven Melbourne and then Sydney, and he then started
to get into trouble because there used to be I'm
not sure where the laws stand now, but it was
in terms of how many, you know, TV stations and
radio stations you could own, and and he just started
to spread himself a little too too widely, and the
(19:36):
government was like, we're not We're not, We're not happy
with that. He had to sell some things off.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, all the competition watched up probably wouldn't have liked that,
because I don't think you would ever got Channel seven
in Perth because that was owned by now Stokes, Kerry
Stokes or gold Golden Wealth, Golden the Golden West, Golden West,
which is Kerry Stokes business not anymore. But he owned
and or control Channel seven over it as it did
(20:01):
the Western Train newspaper and Skase. So he's when you
say he bid for Channel seven. Was was it owned
by public companies? Was it like an on market stock
is shaping?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I think seven had had something like seven had had
five different owners in the last seven or eight years,
and I think Fairfax had been the previous owner.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And then and then he came in and really you
know it was under him that Home and Away started.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
He got so he did some stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, he got Steve Weizard to come in and host
his late night show. He brought in Darren Hinch, who
I think at that point was doing radio, and paid
Darren a silly amount of money.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So is that how he got his people? Maybe when
you mentioned as loyalty, do you think the lord he
was as a result of the amount of dollars as Oh?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean like when with Warwick Kapper. I mean,
so Warick was playing for the Sydney Swans. Skase owns
the Brisbane Bears, so he takes Warwick up to Brisbane,
pays him one point nine million dollars in that day,
you know, I think it's about seven menion today, and
also gives Warwick a men's clothing store and a messuse.
(21:10):
So it's just you know, you could see why you
would be loyal to him, just like he was. You know,
he really looked after people.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Through money around Yeah, what problem wasn't his money? Yes,
So maybe you could talk about the whole the hotel
game when you started to playing, so you had the
I don't know what it's called the shown, but he
certainly had the resort.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Had the gold coast in Port Doug's Mirage. That's the
other extraordinary thing about this story is these names that
should be giving you a clue. It's called mirage. Like
the the the ads we play that there was a
song that was written for the ads for the mirage.
The song is called too Good to be True. Like
there's massive red flags.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
But do you think that you think he was being cute?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I don't think so, but it's just something with hindsight,
you go, oh, maybe we should have play paid closer.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
A mirage to Good to be True. And by the way, though,
I will say this, and I heard I only heard
something I was sure not but I heard PICKSI had
a lot to do with the interior decorational designs of
exactly right, and they were ahead of the time.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think she clearly had an eye. Yeah yeah.
And look, you know the Sheridan as it is now
is still gorgeous. I mean, I think there was a
crocodile turned up in the pool this week this week,
but still you still see it and even though it's
thirty something years old, you know, it's still beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So would you call him a man a vision anyway? Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, because I think, you know, I think in terms
of Port Douglas, you know, he as a very young man,
was on four Mile Beach and really had a vision
of what Port Douglas could be. And so you know,
I think we absolutely can credit him with making Port
Douglas into what it is today. Now. You can obviously
criticize the means by which he got there, but it's
(22:50):
undeniable that Port Douglas is now, you know, a huge
resort town and you know it just went gangbusters. So yes,
but that's that's yeah, that's a vision.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
He was a visionary and we had a number of
visionaries during that period, in that eighties period, and because
it was very little regulation or regulatory environments, or maybe
less policing in the regulatory environments as well, we did
we got some people who were very creative, very innovative.
(23:20):
Do you think that if you look at today against
today's backdrop, do you think that in order to have
more innovation, more creativity, we probably have to have well,
by definition, therefore, you have to have less oversight.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's a very dangerous question. I wouldn't dare weigh.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
In on that because.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Sure, yeah, no, I think that's he Look, he was
a man of his time and that time. If he
were around today, what would he actually have gotten done?
Would Port Douglas be what it is? I mean, there's
just examples of things where you know, there were sand
dunes that had that were supposed to be preserved that
were suddenly suddenly disappeared overnight. You know e is Lavish
(24:01):
property called Bromley, which was he brought to Queenslanders. He
was specifically told you cannot.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Demolish these at Poor Douglas.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
That was I don't rememb where it wasn't where else
that was in Queensland. But the point is it's just like, yes,
they disappeared. Yeah, so you know, yeah, how would he
have faed today? Probably not that well. So yeah, maybe
there is something to be said for more hands off approbate.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Because we often talk about, you know, innovation in Australia
and we want more innovation. Every country wants more innovation.
We talk about productivity. You know, you don't get productivity
without more innovation. Otherwise, if you don't have an innovation,
You just keep doing the same as you've always done
so and we don't really change that much. And sometimes
(24:48):
people like him, whilst we don't know the way he
does things, we sort of are thankful for what the
ultimate outcome is, because someone's probably gone to bought the
property for about a tenth of whatever it is he
invested in it in current terms and is renting it
out and people going and staying there enjoying themselves, and
families go other Christmas time. So you know, in some respects,
(25:13):
maybe some of the things he did was quite good
in terms of outputs.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah. No, I totally understand that argument, and I think yes,
And of course there'll be people.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Who do you think that's how he justified How did
these people justify things in the moment?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That's really interesting. Yeah. Again, I'd love to take a
walk around inside his mind. What did he That's really interesting. Yeah,
And just because I think you get the sense from
what we've heard from his family members is that they
really felt that he was certainly for the last decade
of his life when he was in Spain, that he
was hounded and you know, unfairly, yes, and that all
sort of contributed to his because he died at fifty two.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, really was it that young?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
That young?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
It was strange as well because obviously for many years
there was his claims of being ill, which you know,
no one believed, and then suddenly one day he really
was ill, but you know, cried wolf so many times.
It was quite a shock when he actually did die.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
So what what led to his final demise? It in
other words, you know, where he decided had to leave
the country.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So he had been reported to the corporate regulator because
he tried to get the Quintexs board to sign off
on a I think it was like a forty two
million dollar payment to him for quote unquote management fees.
And there was one member of the board, his name
was Ted Harris, who went the lawyer yes, well yeah,
and Ted Harris was just like a man of integrity.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Okay, I don't know him that I remembering, ye, I say.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And he was the one they went, well, I'm not
doing this. So he resigned and then reported him to
the corporate regulator. And so that sort of set the
wheels in motion.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
And then it was Musk like because Musk is trying
to get a payment of a billion dollars or something,
all right, okay, his group.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, I think we see a lot of parallels now
to what is happening in America. I don't feel like
we have the same sorts.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Of moguls or you know, or characters exactly in this country.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Sadly, sorry, sadly, I don't know if that's the right
word for it, but.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Well, from a satires's point, thank you, exactly right. Yeah, yeah,
it is sad, that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, I mean you want to get one clib.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, because you're right. In order to be a satiriss
you need characters like this, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I mean I've built my career off Dane Toby Joyce,
like you know, it's just those those big characters you need.
The dull ones are an absolute punished.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, you can't make it funny, you know, if they're
dogcau there's nothing to make funny.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I'm quite relieved to not be doing that at the moment,
because I would say that the labors be Yeah, I
think the Labor Party has a bunch of people who
are quite ordinary, and you know, they go about doing.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Their work and ordinary as in just normal people.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Exactly. Sorry, there's no judgment on the on their output,
but just rather they're not you know.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Well they're smart because they know not to be the
exactly right. They probably could be that person if if
time is allowed, and if the and if the you know,
the voting public liked it, paid attention. But now that's
not territory you want to be in. America is different.
Australia is totally opposite.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean, I think the Abbot government was a
sort of golden age in my career. You know, I
think Abbot was certainly a character in his own right,
and then you had Yes, you had boundary Joys leading
the Nationals at that point. You have people like Christopher
Pine even who were sort of odd in their own way,
the fixer, and then you had Dutton and Morrison, and
then the rivalry between Turnbull and Abbit. There was a
(28:24):
lot going on there. I think labor is being a
bit more sort of okay, everyone just calmed down, let's
not draw attention to ourselves, let's just get on with
the job. And so for a satirists, it's a wasted.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So with case did he was he got put into
the regulator, which would have been in those days the
corporate fairs commission and what happened do they did the
world come tumbling down all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, So then he had to get out and so,
which he managed to do. And there's all sorts of
I think what's extraordinary in the podcast that there must
be half a dozen times where it feels like the
net is going to drop on him and he's just
he's got one other you know, escape route or someone
on his side that's able to help him. Weird rules
(29:07):
about bankruptcy trustees, who is responsible for your passport? Things
like that it's up now that is completely clamped down on.
But again, there were all these loopholes that he was
able to squeeze through. He would have had to have
been Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He always he always seemed to
be two steps ahead.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Of well advised.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Oh no, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean I suppose so,
but I don't I don't get the sense that there
was any kind of I don't know, Svengali figure behind him,
pulling strings or anything. He seems to have survived on
his own wits.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
He didn't have a respute and sort of seeing him
behind him, sort of saying this is the way you've
got to go.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
No, not that, not that, not to my knowledge or.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
A Mackie Velly talking to the Prince. Like what I'm
trying to get to is Mint apart from the Pixie.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, exactly, I think she is the other. I mean
not to pick wi yes, not to put too much
responsibility or guilt onto her, but yeah, she was absolutely
you know, his partner and support network.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And yeah, I don't find the branding.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You think find the branding. Yes, absolutely, that seems to
be very much the case, especially when when it came
to like when he had this jewelry store, Pixie was
really useful at getting because for Skates to make his
connections in the business world, he'd want to get to
these men who didn't either didn't know who he was
or didn't respect him. But if he could get to
their wives using this jewelry store, then that was the way.
(30:30):
And so Pixie would have these you know, parties and events,
and these wives of businessmen would come along and they'd
get to take something home with them, and then they'd
go and talk to their husbands and say, Jesus, Christopher's
case guy is a bit of all right, And then
it sort of you know ingratiates himself in that way.
So I think she was very useful and you know that.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
She's still around.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
She just died last year year and she ultimately did
come back to Australia and just lived in a vent
before she died. Before she died, Yeah, I don't know
where Christopher's I don't know if Christopher ever made it
back here in Ash's former anything or if I'm not sure.
Do you have a family, So Pixie had four daughters already.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
He remarried, He married her when she'd already.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Been that's right, but they considered that he was he
was dad to those to those girls. And there is
again like when one of the daughters the family didn't
want to participate in this, but one daughter did submit
a letter just explaining, you know, the man that people
didn't get to see and what a wonderful father he was.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
So I was he like as in stepfather or he
became the royal Lakers?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, I think it's that. I think, yes, yes, technically
was a stepfather, but really became their their dad, And
so they're clearly again was love and loyalty there, you
know for those who knew him. But from the outside world,
I mean it was extremely how loathed he was, and
that the the the extent to which the extent to
which the Australian public and then ultimately the government and
(31:54):
the authorities were invested in getting him home to face justice.
You know, there's an episode where we talk about how
Andrew Denton when he hosted a show ironically on Channel
seven and I think nineteen ninety five, I was looking
to hire a bounty hunter to bring Skace back from Spain.
(32:15):
And you know, he did a fundraising campaign and viewers
raised two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to put towards
this bounty hunter, until eventually someone came along to Dandrew,
this is illegal. We don't do that.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
You can't do that. In America it would have been fine,
but but here that's a little bit too reckless.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So he escaped I think to Spain was New York. Yes,
So he escaped Spain. And what's the reason for that?
Is it because we didn't have an extra distal treaty
with Spain?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Is that I was they now they ultimately they were
able to arrange. I think we did have arrangements there,
but I think there was just too many oh gosh,
I'm sorry because.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
We also remember Mark Robert Trombali went to Spain.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Oh yes, from the I remember the name. You'll have
to remember.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Robert was the legedly the mafia guy from Griffith who
they say was responsible for the murder of one of
our politicians down there, and because you know, allegedly he
was growing illegal substances down there and you know, marijuana
or whatever was anyway, but Tromboli escaped to Spain, I think,
(33:22):
first Island, then in Spain because of some extradition rules
said he allowed him to stay there.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Okay, I think the Spanish authorities ultimately did go along
with the extradition attempts. But it was then the medical
issues that became stopped it. So Skace saying that he
had emphysema, and so he managed to find I think,
with six or seven medical experts who all came along
and said, yeah, yeah, he's too sick to travel. But
then when the Australian government sent there represented to go
(33:48):
and investigate, his feeling was this is not true, this
is not an issue at all. So yes, there were
efforts made, but there was always again sort of a
get out of gel.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Were there any any suggestion that he sent money over
there to support himself.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well, so yeah, I mean, yes he had, he would
have funneled it through. My understanding is that I think
was Pixie's father was used to help funnel some of
this money out, and then they had all the they
also sent it over all the antiques and the furniture
and all that stuff was there as well. So but look,
you know, he was living a lavish lifestyle in Spain.
(34:25):
But it would have been I think it would have
actually been deeply depressing because you're you're you're on the
run for ten years, and you know that you're always
looking over your shoulder. So it wouldn't have been a
great life.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
So because I remember seeing footage of him during that period,
I think it would have been the nineties with it, yeah,
in a wheelchair and with a face mask on, and
it was always attached to it looked like an oxygen tank. Yeah,
and it was always sort of it looked didn't look good.
He was sort of slumped over and and I also
think of himself. I just wondered, as soon as the
(34:58):
camera's off him, is he just up about sprightly walking around?
Was there something in any of the episodes around the Stuy.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yes, that's the sense that we have is that that
was really put on and you know, maybe maybe it'll
be generous. Maybe he had some mild respiratory difficulties, but
certainly not to the extent that he was portraying publicly,
because then he would be photographed getting out and about and.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
There was photographs of him being around the place.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
That's it, And I mean that's my memory of him
is just like long legs footage of him in a pool,
just like that's all I remember growing up, just going
who's this guy that every few years were checking in
on and waiting for him to come home?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Did he have some like sort of like palacial digs in?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, it was pretty good, it was. It was pretty good.
But again, like I don't know, I don't know how
you feel about that of just like what sort of
lifestyle is that. Yes, it's a beautiful home, but you
can't come back to Australia, you know, the authorities are
after you.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Was he had he been charged or like.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Oh gosh, yeah, so there were yes, So there were Gosh,
there's too many details me to try and recount them all,
but yes, there were charges, so but ultimately for nothing.
And Amanda Vanstone is actually in the podcast and she
was you know, part of the Howard government at that
time and desperately trying to get him back. And you know,
she talks about the efforts to you know, canceling his
(36:17):
passport and revoking citizenship and just forcing them into increasingly
desperate situations to try and get a result.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well why were they so desperate? Again? But what was
the situation where? Why are they want of sort of showcases?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
So, I mean because ultimately, in terms of what quintex
owed I think it was one and a half billion dollars,
Scace personally owed one hundred and seventy million dollars, there
was the feeling that this guy had not faced the music. Now,
Alan Bond for all his faults at least went to jail.
And I think that's the core difference.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I think that's the face music.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
That's it. I think because Case never did. There is
that extra element of loathing of just like, you know,
you did wrong, just deal with exponding. Ultimately bounced back.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I mean yeah, sort of to an extent, you know
it was.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
But like, yeah, I think that's what that's why why
there was there was such a feeling in the in
the community as represented by that Denton thing. So the
government felt like it had to keep pursuing this guy because, yeah,
the public wasn't ready to let it go.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Do you think that people like that during that period,
like something like him, and I don't know, I presume
you would have had some supporters around him, probably had
security and everything else. Do you think that people like that, who,
given the demise of him, actually today lay down a
(37:49):
blueprint for anybody else who may be considering doing something
on that, like taking advantage of the system. In other words,
don't do it, because that's what you're getting up.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Like, yeah, I suspect that's probably true.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I mean I don't make an example of him.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it didn't impact you at all.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I didn't do any of that, but so well, But
I wouldn't be it because I definitely thought to myself
at the time, because I was around the eighties working
in a profession environment. I remember thine himself, my god,
that would be the worst. I wasn't thinking in context
of should I copy it, but I just think to myself,
that would be the worst way to live. I just
(38:28):
can't imagine that that lifestyle. As you say, you're effectively
incarcerated in your home. Yes, in Spain it's blake me
and jail.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, it's house arrested.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You can't go anywhere, and after you walked around the
joint a half a dozen times, you're you're exactly so.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Trying not to be too sympathetic to the guy, but
I just feel like, I just don't think that was
would have been a great life.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
No, And I'm not sympathy sympathy for him, but understanding
how he might have felt. I tried. I tried to
at the time, and I remember seeing himself that would
not be anything I'd want to do. And in terms
of the terrence for the future, I mean, sure they
tighten up all the regulatory environments so it shouldn't happen
in the first place. But let's say things away slip
between the cracks. I'd say most people today would not
(39:12):
want to leave that life. And you know, if they
do do it, people still do the wrong thing, but
they sort of do it undercover now, whereas he was
way out there.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what you feel,
what the public appetite would be for someone so ostentatious
these days.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I don't know if he was ostentatious too. They both were.
And my gut feeling is today you know, you won't get.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Away with that flashing it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Was and somehow Australia has become more conservative. Well what's
acceptable is a lot a lot less.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, I think that would breed resentment that that style
of living that they were, you know, showcasing.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
What is the when the ABC wants to do this,
he goes out to do something like this, what is
the objective? Is it just because it's an interesting yarn?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah? No, I do think that is it. Because so
this this podcast falls under the umbrella of a group
called ABC Rewind and so they've previously done it was
like the Waterfront Dispute from the nineteen ninety so they're
looking at stories from that era that for those who
lived through them, it's a sort of refresher and a
kind of deep dive into some stuff and maybe that
didn't know or had forgotten. But then for younger people
(40:19):
like myself, you know, things that were sort of in
the background of our lives that we didn't understand really
what was going on. And so that's the I think
the ABC's sort of ambition with this is just to.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
A social comment though, No.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I mean you can draw, you can you can make observations.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
About you know, excess.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
The excess and being sucked in by you know, billionaires
who maybe are not being completely upfront about the questions.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Was ever a billionaire?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Like, well, exactly, yeah, that's it. I mean, that's that
was actually one of the most frustrating parts of the
podcast of writing it was. I think at certain points
wanted to kind of do a sort of status report
of what his worth was, but it was because there
was so much borrowing involved in smoking mirrors just like, well,
this is the figure that we were kind of able
to find, but we don't know really if that's if
(41:12):
that's true. So whether he ever was a billionaire, yes,
that's open to interpretation.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
He did end up only seven.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, so he bought seven. Melbourne and Sydney I think
were the two parts that he bought. And yes, but
I don't get into the weeds of just how the
seven ownership was broken up into different cities.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
But then and then he had a children MGM student.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yes, so yeah, so he wanted to go into get
into Hollywood and he flies over there and so yeah,
he's up against Murdoch and whether or not Murdoch really
was that serious about it or whether he just wanted
to see how far he could push skate because Murdoch
ultimately didn't didn't end up buying it once case fell no,
so but he got it, but he well, he won
the bid because Kirk Kuchory and who owned MGM, said sure,
(41:55):
I'll take two billion dollars again that kind of packer
bond thing of like if you're if you if you're
willing to pay that amount of money, sure I'll take it.
But then when it came to pain that first I
think it was a fifty billion dollar deposit case, he
missed it. He missed that first deposit and so.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
It deals off fell over Yeah, oh wow, Yeah, I
didn't realize that. And were there many other people in
the story like he's like he's lieutenants or his generals
or apart from people like you know, people evolved with him,
like in the TV leg during Hint et cetera. But
whether did he have like a right hand man or
woman And.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
There was also a turncoat. There's an episode where we
talk about how one of his essentially, I guess you'd
say potential sons in law. So who was you know,
with one of Skase's daughters. He got brought into the company,
was essentially a right hand man. And then when the
relationship with the daughter fell apart and the whole thing
(42:52):
fell apart, he came back to Australia with a bunch
of documents and said, right, well, here's what i've got on.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Skate really yeah, and he ended to regulate.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
So yeah, so that's part of it. That's the thing.
There's so many different avenues to this story. It is
much more fascinating and complex than I expected. I say that,
I know, I know, I'm here to plug it. I
genuinely recommend it.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
But do you think that's do you think this case?
I mean, he would know because you're not in his head.
But do you think just from observation that he regretted
in the end what happened, what he did, or how
we went perhaps how we went about it.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
That's really tough to say. I think I think there
was some remorse, Yes, I think that. My understanding is
there was an element of remorse, But I don't really
know what, if what he would thinks he would have
done differently. I think he's certainly aware of the damage
that he'd done, and also I think aware of the
damage that he'd done to his family like that was not.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
So what was the outcome of that in terms of his family.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Well, I mean because they were left with nothing, that's our understanding,
you know, and they're tarnished by that name and so
Pixie for a long time. It took ages for the
government to eventually agree to let Pixie come back so
she could just ye live out her days.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
And met his daughters.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
So I'm not sure where they're scattered now, but like
one of his daughters who had been living over in
Spain with them, they were left with nothing. And because
her husband had been her husband, Tony Larkins, had been
part of the business, then everyone came after him as well.
So you know, Scase was dead, but the family still
(44:31):
had to deal with the fallout of it. Yeah, it
was they didn't They didn't do well out of it.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
So you say he died at fifty two, that's very young.
And I recall you thinking back, you always look pretty young.
He had a young look to him. But what did
he die from?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
It was cancer?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I can't remember, but cancer.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
And cancer, and it was the family's belief that it
was the stress of being on the run for ten years.
And the family openly blamed the Australia in government for
Scas's death. But you know, I think you need to
could go a bit further back as to you know
why it was.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
So he was on the run for ten years. He
lived in Spain, was a ten.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Years, Yes, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
So so he effectively must have left you like at
forty two.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he bought Channel seven when he
was like thirty eight.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
So when you think about it, like having the strength
of character or personality or whatever the case may be,
maybe just bored ambition to go from bout thirty eighty
gone by? Oh yeah, what would have been then? In
those days Channel seven was a big business, like, yeah,
relatively speaking compared to day because you know, like audiences
(45:41):
dispersed these days that was nine and seven were the
big intent But nine and seven and ten probably in
that order, were big businesses. And for a thirty eight
year old to go and knock one of those off,
oh man.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I mean I worked briefly at Channel seven last year
and I was thirty eight. But I was just doing
a little comedy sketches. I didn't own the building business.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
But like, because you imagine those sitting over top of
it crazy did did do some of the people interview?
They did? They tell you? Was he micromanager?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Was he?
Speaker 1 (46:09):
What stolid manager? Was he?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
That's really I don't I don't get that sense, because
I did wonder about that because you know, you take
like a Murdoch for example, and there's very much a
kind of worldview that he has and you can see
it come out in terms of the content, but you
don't really get that sense other than he's interested in
what's going to work. And so he felt like, yeah,
Steve Wizard was a good, you know, viable comedy option
(46:31):
because obviously done fast forward and what have you said?
That's that. Darren Hinch was very popular on radio, So
that's that. So I don't think that he I don't
get the sense he was. I don't think the sense
he was a micromanager, but was certainly was certainly on
top of things and certainly had a vision. But one
spoke quite highly of him from the seventh like Jennifer Kite, newsreader,
(46:51):
really speaks quite glowingly of him.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
So so he maybe he was just a good owner,
because some people just like to own everything. Yes, yeah,
so he the lines that it was what did you
do in the AFL.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
So yeah, so the Brisbane Bears is the teens people. Yeah,
and so.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
He had the Bears, he had Channel seven, he had the.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Mirage results, Mirage what else, and then there would have
been a bunch of other things under quintechs.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Quintext whatever Quintex is doing, which he took over. Yeah,
as I recall, Quintex was a big public company, a
big list of public company. There you're controlled. So and
then it was quite amazing that so he must have
it was forty two, fifty forty two many left, so
he had done all this between the age of let's
call it twenty two and forty two. Yeah, that's a
(47:37):
lot of stuff to accumulate.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, no, it is, it is, it is.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
There's probably no other way you could do that as
you borrow money.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yes. So yeah, he had people that backed him and
believed him, believed in him, and you know and Andy, Yeah,
and he was you know, he made a success of
the things that he did until he didn't until until
he just kind of.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Well Channel seven would have been successful just so he
probably couldn't pay.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
The interesting yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah was a good company, but he just pro could
pay the interest bill and then and then Marja, the
results are great results, but they probably just can't play
the interest and.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Then but just also just the wasteed, just just the
absolute waste of expenses.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
For the excess of indulgence. Well, maybe I'm just sort
of getting a sense of the guys you talk to me.
But maybe he was smart to be able to identify
good assets because it wasn't if he tried to build
a business that never made any money. No, exactly, they
were good assets. Yes, he's undoing might have been his
(48:34):
indulgent lifestyle, but also of recklessness around how am I
going to service the debt?
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yes, it is the classic flying too close to the
sun sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Icorous.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, that's so wings the exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yes, it's very interesting. And so he died from cancer ultimately,
And where do you finish off this this what's last episode?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Well, that's yeah, so the very final bits is talking
about some of the changes that were made and in
terms of like what you talked about regular sciatory stuff,
and just yeah, where his some of his family members
ended up, and just generally just some of the recollections
of people who still who still felt loyal to him
after all these years. And it's I think it's quite
a gentle ending in the sense of we read out
(49:23):
a letter that one of his daughters sent to us,
and so we do take you know, we're not you
know exactly that's it. It really is going. Okay, look,
obviously he did these things, but at the end of
the day, he was still a family man and a
father and people loved him, and we try, we try,
and you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Fascinating and just reminder with my comedy episodes, we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
The five episodes available on so yeah on all the apps,
but yeah, exact all the apps, and I think ABC
probably would love you to listen to it on the
ABC Listen app, but otherwise Spotify is fine.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Well that's fascinating and any more projects coming.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Up, so I'm doing so if you'd like to listen
every Saturday evening, I'm doing ABC Radio on ABC Local Radio.
I just did a documentary earlier this year about the
housing crisis, which is on Binge that's called sold Who
broke the Australian dream, so please consume that if you
still have binge.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah yeah, some people do, Yeah exactly, we get as
part of the packages.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Now anyway, I must have binge that lost a lot
when HBO Max came along.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah yah yeah, but it's up on binge. But any
new projects coming up?
Speaker 2 (50:34):
And then what is the next thing? In twenty twenty
six doing a review at the Ensemble Theater in Sydney.
So it's myself, Chris Taylor and Andrew Hansen from The
Chaser and Christy Wieling and Brown who.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Used to be on as Live.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, so we don't go to do a live show
and it's scary probably too.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
How do you feel about being live?
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I love it. To get that immediate response from an
audience is wonderful. There's something about you know, because a
sketch that I've made in the past, you put them
out online, you get likes, retweets, shares, whatever. It doesn't
feel the same as that wave of a laugh washing
over you. So the live stuff is fantastic, But yes
it's much more of a high wire act and of
(51:14):
course inevitably there's one night where it goes it's just
it's not working.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, I just don't know how you guys do it.
I really honestly don't know how to comedian can do it,
especially sent in front of an audience, live audience, and
run the risk of stuff and things up.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
But you must have done some many live speeches.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
And yes speeches, yes, but it's controlled like I'm not
looking for a response. I'm looking for a clap at
the end, but and I am looking at the audience
for them to be engaged, but to get them.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
To laugh, just sprinkle some jokes. Isn't that do you?
Speaker 3 (51:42):
No?
Speaker 1 (51:42):
No, I don't know. Occasionally do but it's very very rare.
Mine's usually about the economy or something like that, but
pretty dry. I can't make your jokes about some parts
of the economy, but they get But your whole show
is about getting people's you know, laughter. That would be tough.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
That's the joy. The risk of it is the joy.
I think that's and also sometimes acknowledging when it doesn't work's.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Go what do you say? What do you say when
that happens?
Speaker 2 (52:06):
So well? I do, I do a lot. I also
do a lot of corporate gigs, so I host a
lot of awards nights and things, and sometimes I'll go
for something and I'll get a oh what have you?
And I'll just say I took a risk. I just
like I'll be honest with you. I just I didn't
know if you were ready for that. I put it
out there. That's fine.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Well, Mark Humphrey's a comedian, satirist, writer, actor, and as
you say, best known for your satirical political rhetoric. I
could be your joke, right, I probably need one, And look,
good luck with the series Christmas Case. I find I'm
(52:42):
glad someone's actually done something about him finally, because he's
sort of one of the forgotten corporate guys from the eighties.
For some reason, he got forgotten.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yes, yes, that's it.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
All the others get still get talked about, but he
got forgotten and most people don't know it was the
eighties in this country was mental. People think that things
are wild now eighty from nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety
something early nineties, when the interest rates really kicked up
harder than at which point everybody no one survived. But
(53:15):
that eighties period was fueled by excess cash, indulgence, excess
everything lunches. Friday lunches. Famous story about al Bonnie Scatter
a restaurant in Perth on Fridays called the med and Mediterranean,
and he would be surrounded by his entourage, some of
whom no longer with us, and including himself, and every Friday,
(53:39):
if he was in town, every Friday lunch started at
twelve and went through to midnight. And that was normal.
That was normal.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
And that's the sense I get from the advertising world
as well.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
Yeah, the advertisers do the same thing that the advertising
agents or what you've called the guys around worked in
advertising agencies, you know, like that movie that Serious Suits,
That's what the sort of all about, and that actually happened.
And now on Miami vice thing. That world existed because
I was arouseding by thirty during that period, and I
remember it. I remember people were like, WHOA, what's going on?
(54:13):
And the and I remember one of the ways that
the government tried to stop it was introduced the fringe
benefits tax for entertainment. So you you, if you were
somehow claiming a tax reduction for the expense, you, the
people who got the benefit of it had to pay tax.
The individuals who got funded to go that for that
for that event. And then what they did then is
(54:34):
they just completely wiped out all entertainment expenses. No more
so if you put on a fund a fun day,
I should say, on a Friday afternoon, you paid a
lot of people come along to your event, and you
were putting lunch on. No tax reduction and that that,
and of course it killed the restaurant industry because the
restaurant industry was surviving off the back of these days.
(54:55):
Friday was the day they made all the day because
I was selling booze, and the booze the more boos
because you're going to eat once in that period from
twelve to twelve we might have twice, but once maybe.
But one thing you did do is you kept drinking,
and that's where the money was made.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Do you miss it?
Speaker 1 (55:10):
No, I don't miss it. I don't drink, so I
don't miss it at all. But like and it was
the greatest waste of time of all kinds my country,
Thanks very much,
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