December 8, 2025 • 41 mins
At 28, Ari Kaklamanis has already reshaped how Australians consume real estate. He founded Million Dollar Listing Sydney (MDLS) at 17, building the country’s first social-media-driven real estate platform. What began as a small Instagram page is now Sydney’s most-viewed property portal, pulling in more than 21 million views a month.
In this episode, Ari breaks down how he spotted the gap, built a global audience, and turned MDLS into a powerhouse that changed the way people buy, sell, and talk about property online. A sharp look at the mindset and strategy behind a founder who rewrote the rules of real estate marketing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ari, Calomnis Mark Burs how'd.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You go very well?
Speaker 1 (00:06):
But how do I go? How do I go?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
How did you go very well?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Calomnis Carla Manus, Yes, and not as opposed to Cala Manus.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's you know what You've nailed it.
You're a fellow Greek, you know, you know yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And sometimes you go by the name of Ari James.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes, not by choice, but by where's.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That come from? Own? Obviously middle names James, but my
dad James James. And you when you say James as
in Dimitri as your father's obviously that's your father's surname
or your month surname.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Father's surname. Dud's first name is James.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Okay, okay, you James, Admitri.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
He goes by James with some people call him Dimmy, yeah,
but everyone just calls me Ari.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And where does Ari James appear in terms of your business?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So it does not appear necessarily anywhere in the business.
But there was a recent news article which referred to
me as a James, but that was by the author's choice,
not by mind.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I didn't know as an error. Okay, now I got it,
because I don't want to get your name wrong, and
I mean it's just for the audience to Sayuri's usually
short for Aristotle.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well usually it is, but it's just Ari on.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
The birth really lucky because that's a big name to
live up to, mate Aristotle, and to be also pretty
hard on a kid in your kindergarten four or five
year old having to explain to everybody's name is Aristotle.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes, yeah, exactly, And that's just is a big name
to live up to. So that's why they just thought
we'll call him ari Ari.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And you're the founder of million dollar Listing Sydney, yes,
and we're going to talk about that in a moment.
But you're only pretty young, young, a young fella, twenty eight.
What's the deal man, How did you get into this
business or did you start off?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I started eleven years ago. I was at school and
it was really just out of a passion for property.
I wanted to know what things on the market were
selling for, what their price, guards were, wanted to know
what things sold for. I wanted to know what things
at least for and so that interest I thought, I
was just start uploading these properties on social media that
(02:14):
I'm interested in. It developed a large following just right
off the bat. So I thought, of all other people
are clearly interested, and it just had momentum from there.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Like at a seven eight we were at school seven
and you would have been there was your eleven scool,
So year eleven school. How is it you're interested in
I mean, I guess some kids are riches in big
boats and other riches and private jets, and you're obviously
interested in what we'll ask you, why are we interested
in real estate?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So my family are in property, and it was always
spoken about around the house, and there was an early
suggestion that I should be a real estate agent, and
I thought, well, I'm interested in property. I'm going to
start this page. I'll anonymously promote myself if I become
an agent. Through this page, I'll post my results, my listings.
(03:02):
I didn't end up becoming an agent. I studied, got
an atar, and I started commerce law. It's in the UNI.
Practiced as a lawyer. But this business I continued to
run throughout school and throughout YUNI and still.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Today, seventeen years of age. Your to yourself, I might
start sort of sort of marketing myself to some extent
and testing out the real estate marketplace, Mike and myself
is a sort of like a real estate agent to
some extent, like a it's sort of like a not
a fake real estate agent, but like a I don't
know what the word is, but I guess you're just
(03:39):
testing out the real agent. Yeah, the facto. Yeah, sort
of like a mum or dad will be the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, you know, Mum has a particular interest in real
estates and I should always talk about it. And you know,
like I grew up in Bondai and there were things
selling and she would a herself, wonder what that's sold for?
And I thought, okay, I'll call it the agent and
find out. And I would just post it to this
Instagram and it would get all these clicks and all
these views and likes, and I thought, wow, like there's
(04:08):
there's something here. There's just an energy here, There's there's
an addiction to that viewership, into that engagement. And so
it just kept going.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Can I what do you think you've been on it
for eleven years? Yes, maybe just break it down a
little bit now after you've you know, you've got a
lot of experience in this. You obviously posted thousands of houses,
You've got a big following. We'll talk about the business
side of things at a moment. But what do you
think it is in Sydney at least? What is our
(04:41):
compulsion with expensive most times hard to out without outside
of our own reach properties, and probably most of them
are on the water, but you know, sometimes not. But
what is it about Sydney people that makes that so
such a popular.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
P It's interesting, It's a good question. So I think
that Sydney prices have been massive relative to other areas,
both nationally and internationally. The prices are so big that
people are like, who are buying these properties? Who's selling them?
How do they get this much money? And also the
(05:23):
growth in price for eleven years, everyone's saying, how is
this sustainable? Because I used to get that question even
when I started there is there a bubble? Is this sustainable?
I've just seen the market increase in that whole period.
So I think the curiosity and the interest is how
are these properties worth so much? And how does it
(05:44):
just keep increasing? So I think that's for me, at least,
the curiosity and the interest.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
So the international magazine called The Economist, Yes, which is
heavily relied on sort of as a research tool for
organizations around the world world when they're trying to get
a gauge on an asset class in any country. So
the economists talks about all sorts of asset classes, you know,
(06:12):
goal mining, shares, fund management, any asset class you can imagine,
including property, and the economists has traditionally raised the prices
of property, not just in Sydney but Australia wide. How
we've enjoyed property price rises for a long long time,
(06:37):
very rare. Do we see property reductions? Yes, and in particular.
And I know about this because I used to have
to try to defend our position every time I did
a bond issue many many years ago, when used to
raise money through the bond markets in relation to strain
wotagsh ones, and we managed to continue to defeat it.
But there was a sense that globally that Sydney in particular,
(06:58):
house prices are outlandish. We're talking about an average, but
of course the places you're posting, they're the really expensive places.
They actually bring the average up. Not everything sells at
that price, but nonetheless that sort of nearly doubting Thomas
(07:21):
type syndrome about Sydney house prices. They can't keep going
and going and going. What is someone like you who's
out there now these days? I'm really involved in this.
What is someone like you think about that sort of
proposition that Sydney house prices are going to take a
massive reduction we have. You know, the economists used to
(07:41):
talk about a thirty percent reduction. I've never seen. It's
never happened. It didn't even happen during the GFC. It's
never happened. And in fact, when it has happened a
little bit, they bounced back at an even great rate.
What do you feel and who are these buyers? Where
they're coming from, and where do they get their money from?
By the way, often think how do those build forward?
That place?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, it's interesting. So I think that I'm a bit
of an optimist, and I think glass half full, Yeah, exactly,
glass half full. I anticipated it's just going to keep increasing, honestly,
And I think at that top level buyers are less
price sensitive because at that level they're mostly cash buyers.
(08:23):
Well it's eighty percent cash, maybe a bit of a
mortgage at that ten million plus level potentially, Whereas the
sensitivity I guess to interest rates, for example, is in
that it could be in that one to two million,
one to five million dollar area where there is a sensitivity,
but even that area keeps increasing. Like padding turn Bolara,
(08:45):
those suburbs are just going up, at least from what
I'm saying, So I do not expect it to go
down because I am an optimist, but also being involved
in posting and advertising for eleven years, I just haven't
seen a reduction. So looking past and looking into the future,
I just think it's going to continue.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So the demand to advertise on your pages, yes, do
you see that demand? Did that demand kick out much
after the interest rate first interest rate reduction in February
this year?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So, to be honest, I compared to answer your question,
I don't think of the increase or decrease. It was
just it just kept going, and I noticed a proliferation,
an increase on the site where number one we started
getting twenty eight million views a month, and I was
published publicizing that and think people are thinking, wow, there's
(09:41):
all these alternatives that are quite expensive to advertise on,
but maybe don't get as many views from qualified people
from passive buyers. So there was an increase when I
started publicizing that. Notwithstanding interest rate movements in a low
interest rate environment. In a high interest rate environment, we've
still consistently received a lot of properties. And that's also
(10:04):
because we advertise all over Sydney, like including the Southern
Highlands which is New South Wales. Just all over the place.
We've got a constant stream of property.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's just New South Wales.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, but we will do interstate properties occasionally because Sydney
buyers are interested. Yeah, other properties outside of Sydney, but
the majority is in Sydney that we advertise.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So that you're not you didn't see any change or
you're not seeing changes when interest rates went up, and
you're not seeing change any changes when interest rates went down,
And that may be right, that may be just a
consequence of the buyers and or the vendors not being
sensitive to price and all interest rates. Yes, so therefore
(10:53):
those buyers. Do you get to see the buy side much?
Do you get to see who the buyers? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So we don't not really like we kind of just
get the sold price, address, bed, bath, car and the
agent's contact and it ends there. It's quick summary. We
don't necessarily find out who the buyers are, and nor
would I want to get into publishing them because there
is a privacy element.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
But you don't get to see behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
No, not behind the scenes. We actually were getting involved
a little bit in the photography and et cetera. When
the property is being listed on the market, so you
meet the seller, but in terms of the buyer, once
the property is sold, will be sent the sold information,
but they don't typically include the buyer. You'll find that
in AFI articles and things like that that just clows
(11:41):
the buyer.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, John the Chancellor or one of those real estate writers.
So just so I can get a bit of an
understanding of your model. Your business model. So your business
model is properties largely in New South Wales, probably more
confined to Sydney than anywhere else the greater Sydney. Occasionally
(12:05):
you can do stuff from outside of Sydney in New
South Wales and outside of New South Wales's occasional, but
it's not really your bread and butter. Vendors are the
ones who are approaching you or vendors agents.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes, so it's a real mix both. Yeah, which is great.
So we've made around a lot of the advertising budgets
for the agents. So where real estate domain and are
listed on there, and that is budgets pretended to the vendor.
We're on those budgets now.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So maybe you can explain that pleas So you're saying
that asient goes along to someone who's got a big
waterfront house, for example on Sydney Harbor, and it's ten
million dollars sale for fragment's sake, and you say it
and the vendor, the agent says to the vendor, look,
we're going to put some advertising on realested dot com
domain domain or wherever. By the way, we recommend you
(12:53):
put a little bit onto ORI's posting. Yes and so,
and this is our budget for advertising. Is what we
recommend to you to the vendor. And then it was
fifty grand or something. The vindows are great worries. Dick
pays fifty grand. They book, someone comes out and takes
photographs yep. And then they distribute the photographs to you
(13:13):
to us yep.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So we will receive the photos, receive the price guide, address,
bed bath, cart age, and contact. That's it. That's just
the key details. And what's interesting though, is that we
receive those properties from the agent once they receive the
high raise images and all that. But we get so
many requests from vendors directly through the page to say
(13:36):
how do we get on here? Which is interesting to
me because vendors following means when they sell, they become buyers,
and these buyers are following, and I know for a
fact that they are, Like there was an interesting statistic
that we had where it was eighty percent of properties
in belvy Hill that sold over thirty mil were either
(13:57):
bought or sold by follower of the page million. All
these things Sidney, So that's very you're in front of
the right audience. And so back to the point that
vendors reaching out to advertise is really key thing for me,
and I think it's super valuable because it shows that
they're watching and they want their property there. But now
(14:17):
that we are on the budgets, we get that consistent
flow from the agents as they list properties.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So in terms of your business model, do you have
have you had to bring in business development manager of BDMS?
What do you want to call them to go on
to all the agents and say, here's our rate card,
these are numbers, this is what we do. View advertise
on our on our in our these are posts. I
(14:44):
presume your post on the page you're not running the
one stories winging on that.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, we do stories as well. It's a post and story.
And so, because I've been doing it for so long,
I developed good relationships with all the agents in the
early days because social media was kind of a novelty
back then advertising on their real estate. So I became
good mates with the agents and so we have that
constant dialogue. I speak to them all every single day.
(15:09):
So in terms of our pricing and things like that,
or we only charged about five years in, we really
built up the following and then it was able to
be monetized, and then at that point we said, okay,
this is what we're going to charge. Each year, there
have been incremental increases. I actually don't like to increase
prices too much, but there's been incremental increases, and I
(15:32):
want to always deliver it, deliver a commensate, commensurate around
of value for that increase. But in terms of business
development and sales, I've really got none of that. I've
got full staff total plus many and it's really just
the agent saying, what's your price. This is it. We
send a media kid out, send that pricing out, and
that's it. They put it on their budget and we
(15:53):
go from there. Low overheads, low overheads, yea, but that
allows me to keep prices down to Yeah, also makes
it much more attractive than to the vendors agent.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yes, mind you a lot of these places, as you say,
they're selling selling for ten plus. Yes, they're not that
sensitive to the advertising cost.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, like it's not the bigger deal, yeah, because they
were for a start, they're going to be paying between
one and two percent commission to the vendor, ay to
the agent anyway somewhere around there. So like that in
itself is a huge amount of money if you're selling
something for twenty million. So whether or not you've got
to pony up on a little bit of money to
(16:31):
go on, you know, onto your Instagram page, that's pretty amazing.
How did you manage to come up with the name
Millionaire Listings? And when? How did you get that name?
But I'm sure I can't believe it. No one has
owned it.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, so it's I couldn't believe it. When I
registered it those years ago, it was readily available. And
I was a big fan of the show Osies, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And did you watch that show? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I watched that show.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Was that a source of inspiration for you?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It was in a sense like I just I saw
it and I watched it. I thought, okay, it's a
good show. It doesn't exist in Australia. In Sydney. It
didn't exist in Australia and it still doesn't other than
my page, and so I thought I'll just register it
and start my own thing here. So yeah, you could
say it's a source of inspiration, but I just thought
it was a great name. It's a million dollar listing.
(17:21):
It's catchy.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, mind you, it should be multimillion dollars listings. Yea,
everything everyone in definitely Sydney. Everything's a million dollar. The
average house is a million and a half. I think
one pix.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Last yesterday I was in Melbourne and it's funny you
should be talking about how Marcus have responded more recently.
But they were telling me that these guys are real estate.
In fact, the guy was a valuer that I was
dealing with and a big value down and he said
to me that a lot of the places down in
Melbourne are not getting the valuations, particularly in the place
like the Mornington potinsulas in place they're great places, but
(17:55):
no one actually lives in them. It's more of a
weekend to type deal. And they, he said, we places
for sale down there and they just sit on the
sit on the listing pages with ages for ages don't
don't sell. He said, they've actually sort of dropped in valuations.
We don't seem to have anything like that in New
South Wales. Nothing seems to be affected like that here,
(18:15):
particularly here in Sydney. How important do you think it
is in attracting particularly international interest, How important it is
to have a government in a state that doesn't want
to throw the baby out of the bath water light?
They having Victoria, you know, like this land tax of
over fifty thousand dollars land value land tax. Then they've
(18:37):
got a whole lot of other taxes there to prosperity taxes.
They've got a whole series of taxes there, part from
the stems and it's investors have gone, I'm not going there,
I'm not spending money there. How important is it has
it been for your rise to this very successful rise,
for you to be operating in a state like New
South Wales.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, I think it's okay. So I just went to
Melbourne a few weeks ago and they were saying exactly
what you said. And there is such an animosity towards
the government over there because since COVID they said they
just ruined our market, They've ruined Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
They will say, well, they borrowed heaps of money, they've
lost their international rating agencies ratings. The government has to
borrow more money, therefore us to pay more interest because
the rating is the rating of the government. Yes, office
has been reduced. They've got taxes everywhere and they've got
people leaving their joint and drives. But that's the thing
and that but they still keept getting voted in, which
(19:31):
is the most surprising part.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But there is just an overwhelming I'm sure Sydney is
so much better than Melbourne, but an overwhelming amount of
tax is so it's actually debilitating because like even in
Sydney and at standard, you've got your quarterly does GST,
you get your income tax, you pay GST and you're
pay invoices, you pay your council rates and all these things.
(19:54):
It can be quite overwhelming. And I think a government
that is supportive of people that are actually out there
doing things and having a crack that's so important it's inspiring,
it facilitates growth, and it gives you purpose. If you're
going out there doing something and you're not getting bloody
taxed to death, you need that to grite.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Because a lot of you are your vendors generally speaking Australians,
I mean like they because of it, or are they
like a lot of people from overseas who've decided to sell.
And therefore I would ask the question, do you to
this tent? You know, are the buyers coming from overseas?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yes? Yes, so okay, there's a lot of people in Australia,
a lot of vendors and buyers in Australia that subscribe,
but there are so many from overseas as well. I'll
get a call a monthly from someone in London saying
I own a house in Rose Bay, I'm working in London.
We want to feature on the site. So there's so
many times where a buyer from Singapore or overseas comes
(20:58):
from the page as well, and it's the beauty of
social media. They may not be and I have the
greatest respect for the major portals, but they may not
be searching on those portals Belby Hill or even Southern
Highlands but they're on social media and the property is
brought to them and they think I didn't know I
wanted something like this. So that's the beauty of social
(21:20):
media's you can you can go over the geographic borders
and just push things globally and they see it and
they act on it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, if I how do you you mentioned subscriptions people
who are on your postings? Who are your posting Subscribers
is followers follow us, not subscribers as it, followers that
think you've built some other sort of model. Subscription model
follow us. So yeah, because it's very easy. If I'm
(21:50):
living in London, I've got a probably in Rose Bay,
and I'm now decide I don't need anyone because I
want to live over there for the rest of my life.
I'm just following your page, so you're updating me every
day as to what's going on. You're not only and
by the way, some of the big portals like you know,
domain and rested dot com, they're very busy, very busy,
(22:11):
and they're sort of quite noisy, whereas you're just Sydney
very much in Southern Highlands. But it's sort of just simpler.
I mean, you're having times a dare you post?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
We make it out about ten to day, so.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I'm only getting ten. So whereas if I go on
to one of the big portals, I got to put
in my search and I go or I can, I
can actually you know, get it to ping me. But
it doesn't matter that I put in a search and
I've got to sort of go through everything, and it's
a bit it's not a haushole. But yours is more,
You're more Yours are more sort of very targeted.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yes, it's more curated and target totally.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Curated and completely targeted. Do I if I'm looking at
it and I'm living in London, I'm that person and
I'm potentially going to buy something in Sydney because I
know I'm wanting to send my family to there some
m kids go to school and Rose Bay wherever am
I would I be fairly confident that I'm seeing most
of the properties that are being that are for sale
(23:09):
in the area that I'm not missing out because I
don't go on a real estate dot comm or I
don't go on to domain.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So you definitely you wouldn't be missing out if it
was ten mili plus where it's on there one million
dollar listings. Yeah, you're not missing out on that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So pretty much everyone the model is every property. So
do you do You go and scour the other the
portals and say, hey, I we're not having all this
property on our pages.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So back in the day, I would like when I
was hustling a bit and it was less of a
business than what it was now, I'd go on there
and I'd call and say, you know, let's get this
on here. I can deliver more views than it.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And you do it for free too.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Probably yeah, back then I would, but now it doesn't
happen anymore. You ah, actually haven't done too much marketing
or sales. It's the marketing for me. It comes from
delivering a good product and being out there constantly. But
in terms of calling nowadays, now that we're on the
budgets and I've got these relations with the agents and
(24:05):
they're getting results from the page, it's all just coming through,
which is a good place to be.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
What was how many? So let's say on one page,
on one post, I should say do you have late
five photos or just one photo? It can be up
to twenty images, and put twenty images on so I
can scroll through. Yes, to have a look at everything.
So have you learned in this process what vendors should
(24:29):
be advertising? I don't mean that's probably not look away
putting it. Are you are you able to say to
an agent or a vendor, look, this is what works best. Yep,
show us the kitchen and show us the pool, you know,
like sometimes you know, I get really annoyed, but sometimes
I go into an agent's page on real estate dot com,
for example, and they'll have photographs of a lamp, you know,
(24:51):
like just I think, well, what are you not telling me?
Why are you showing me that shit? Yes? What have
you learned that are the real hot points? Say that
you could fill out there are ten things or whether
it is there five non negotiables that must be put
in the photograph?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I think you'd find that we mostly always lead
the hero images to the facade.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
But you mean the outside, Yeah, the outside in the
front of the half the first thing you see, the first.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Thing you see generally about ninety percent of the time.
And we've found that that respond that there's a great
response to that. And it comes back to that curiosity
when I were driving the street and I think I
wonder what that's sold for you recognize the facade right
away and you think, oh, it's that property. Now let's
see the inside. But if there's a really nice interior,
(25:36):
designer will lead with an internal shot. But in terms
of non negotiables, I totally agree that you don't want
to be seeing a close up of a lamp or
a close up of the carpet. Yeah, I want to
see personally the facade. If there's a pool, to see
the pool, the rear facade, view kitchen, bedrooms, bathrooms, that's
all the stuff I want to see, and the living
(25:58):
room space. So as long as there's all of that
in there, I think it's a it's a go.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Has there been anything quirky that has in terms of
how you how a vendor and through your pages presents
probably any standout or any quirky that you've noticed that Wow,
that worked that ordinarily you would not have thought of. Yeah, learnings.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I mean traditionally, if it's a high price point, it's
going to go nuts the the post. But for the
lower end ones, it's got to You've got to make
it kind of interesting. And that comes down to really
good photography at the end of the day, because we're
just advertising the materials sent to us.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
So that's why we started getting into the photography, because
we started noticing the photography is key. It's got to
be kind of ardy, kind of quirky.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Here, because you don't want one vendors agent to do
get their photographer to take up who might be a
great photographer and that looks really good on one post,
and then another vendors agent it's got a crappy photographer exactly,
and because that affects the quality your paper.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
But that's it, that's it, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So what what have you learned then for I mean,
do you say to the vendors edge of this, this
is the photographers you should use or how does it work? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, So for the standard we've got prices that range
from five hundred and fifty dollars to twenty thousand dollars.
For those top end packages, we will say to the vendor,
we're going to organize photographers and do it ourselves and
do the advertising for you. That way, we have a
bit of quality control for that lesser price point of
(27:33):
the five hundred and fifty, say, and the materials sent
to us, the agents kind of feel to the property
for us they will submit a great property most of
the time, and even if for me, again, if it's
a lesser attractive property but it's an interesting sale. It
could even be one million dollar sale of a terrace
(27:55):
in Bonda Junction call it and it's quite unattractive, or
it's a bit derely, that's interesting to me because I
could I could think of that as a flip opportunity.
Or if that terrorist gets one, then this fully renovated
one in Paddington should get five. Kind of thing. So
the lesser attractive stuff can actually do well if it's
(28:15):
got a uniqueness to it, if it's kind of an
uninhabitable property and people think, oh gosh, well the potential.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
There, or renovator his dream, renovator's dream, they.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Think how did it get all that money and they're
freaking out, or you know, renovator's dream. The potential of
this thing. It could be worth x amount of money
after I renovate it. So there is we do like
to curate and have a really nice and good looking
but the unattractive ones together with an interesting number, interesting
(28:44):
sale or interesting price guide can fly and really do well.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So he still will do it.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You never still do it.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
You still do a million dollars two million dollar type
deals and so like you're a young fellow doing well.
I'd imagine you're saved a few bucks. Where where do
you buy in Sydney? I mean, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
So I recently my most recent purchase was the Piccolo
Bar and in the Cross. It's the oldest bar or
coffee shop in the Cross. Yeah, but I didn't buy
the business, it was the property. I mean, I love
pots Point and the Cross. I think it's great. My
now fiance lives here. I live in Bondai. I love Bondai,
(29:25):
going to the beach in the morning and then coming
here for dinner or whatever. It's a good lifestyle. But
for me, near the train station is great. Near the
beach is good. So that's what I like.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I like.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I like properties that I can drive past and visits
and walk past when I'm going for a walk.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So so you rate, you rate King's Cross, pots Point?
I think around this where we are right now, and
by the way, so do I. I'm a I'm a
bit of property ready, as does your father in law.
In fact, he and I a couple of times have
competed on a few properties around here. Yeah, so I
actually try to buy the one up up there in
(30:08):
King's Cross that what's that business he's got there? He
leases our rooms?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Oh yeah, yeah with the coffee shop.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah yeah, I tried to buy that, but he bought it.
And then and then he and I both try to
buy a pub down the road here recently in Darlings
in Liverpool Street on the corner of that. But your
father or your potential your future father, and I should
say he did not offer enough, and I often enough,
but I stuffed around and someone else got it from
(30:37):
both of us. Interesting, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think.
I don't think if I realized, I was one of
the bitterest. But so because we love this ERAa, I
love this area. He does too, particularly love he loves
Oxford Street. But this area is fantastic. Yes, why do
you think? Why? What are the hallmarks of what you
considered to be an area that is worth investing in?
(30:59):
So what do you are you talking about? You talking
about position, population, demand, socio economics. Closest to the city
puts inmity and then it is what are you looking at?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
So the Piccolo's a commercial property, So for me, density
and a lot of residents. I think is great in
terms of if that tenant ever left, least ability would
be good. It would be achievable because there's so many
people and the business wants to be that. But what
I'm really looking at now is, so I live in
Bondai to drive to visit my fiance and Potts Point,
(31:33):
there is so much traffic in Rose Bay, New South that's.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Out of control. It's actually especially between school hours, yes,
morning and afternoon, it's shocking. And there's so many traders
out there. It is out of control.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
It's out of control. And so that concerns me a
little bit. Like one of the things, one of the
reasons I would potentially leave that area is because of
that traffic and those new zoning laws aren't helping. The
high rise apartments is going to be massive over well
not may not be an over supply, but a massive supply, but.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It's going to be a whole lot more people. Yes,
that's going to be the issue.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yes, And so that like so traffic number one. Pots
Point proximity to the city is good. When I was
practicing as a lawyer, I caught the train every day.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You can walk to Yes on a cool day, not today,
but on a nice winter's day you can walk easy.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, So I think proximity to the city is great.
Again back to Bondo though the beach, I love it,
Like I go every morning walk there and get my
coffee there. I just think it's great.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
But if you that's okay if you work from home,
but if you're going to schlep into the city every day, yeah,
it's that's a punish. I'm totally on side with that,
the whole proposition. I mean, the best best of worlds
would be have a place around here, somewhere Darling As,
Pots Point, Kings Cross, whatever, and then have a place
(32:58):
there for the weekend. We just go home on the
weekend and go to the beach for sure, But the
best world would be to do one of the both.
But if you had to make a choice, I just
think time saved is really important these days, especially if
you have to work in the city.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, so that's that's very interesting. So so proximity is
a big deal for you location and it's not like
you're moving out you know that's going to take you
an hour to get to the beach from Like if
you're here, living here and you want to go to
the beach. You can be there in fifteen minutes on
a normal.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Day, Yes, in half an hour, just just about the move.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
So ari given that co stars just bought Domain, yes
for a big number, and real estate real estate dot Com,
which is like you know, the eight hundred pound guerilla
here in Australia, you know, has massive market share backed
(33:53):
by a news corps here. This sort of got a
great business but relative to you a little and you're
sort of floating around there. At what point would some
of my co star who's just bought Domain, who's very inquisitive,
who wants to beat real estate dot Com, or at
least recognize her that there's market share to be one.
(34:16):
Have anyone come and talk to you yet, anyone tap
you on the shoulder.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I've had a few, Yeah, I've had a few people
and like sophisticated investors. And I met with John McGraw
once and he described my business as a mini aria
and he was an early investor in Aria. But he said,
you're a mini aria basically how you put it, and
there's a massive I don't view myself as a competitor
to them at all. No, No, I'm a user of them,
and I'm complimentary to them because, as I said, we
(34:42):
publish a summary of the details price Guide, et cetera.
And plenty of agents have said that following your post,
our increase in inquiry. It comes from the post, but
there's also an increase in inquiry on domain or real
estate because people see it on the insta first, on
the social mena first, and then they search it up
(35:02):
on Google and either domain of real estate pops up.
So there is a synergy there, and you get more
detail once you're on the web, so you get more detail,
but there is a certain synergy there. And we're doing
twenty eight million views a month on average, so there
it's a you know, it's a good suggestion, like if
(35:22):
we combined forces and they can get an additional twenty
eight million views which is concentrated on one Sydney platform
rather than millions of views across Darwin Perth. But it's
on one platform that's that's powerful for that particular city.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
What do you consider opening up a million million dollar
listings in say Brisbane, one in Melbourne and one in
Perth and one in Adelaide. Yes, So that would require
a capital, that will.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Require capital and We've recently made a Melbourne move and
I've got two of the members of staff in Melbourne,
so we're in Melbourne now as of you know this week.
Basically because there was a page that was built up
there and it was a it had most importantly real
followers on social media. It's a big cowboys. Some people
(36:10):
can purchase the fake by followers and it's not real
like that's a it's a fraudulent thing. So when we
when we partnered and eventually took over this page, made
sure it was real followers as we do. It was
built up over eleven years, so that's that's critical. And
to build up a real following in each suburb requires capital,
requires the right partnerships, but it's going to happen. And
(36:33):
even New Zealand and Tasmania, there's plenty of agents there
and we're advertising a bit of stuff there and the
response on those properties is so high from Sydney buyers
that the agents there are saying, you've got to set
up shop here, will feed you everything.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So what I mean. One and I introduced you to
Joe Hockey from Bondo Partners. Now Joe Hockey is was
still is one of the advisors to the main guy
behind Coast in the US and Joe, I don't know
if you know Joe hockey course, so John Joe runs Bondopartners,
and Bondopartners had a lot to do with the domain
(37:10):
acquisition for the individual behind Coast in the United States.
And because if like, maybe you instead, I'm not saying
you should sell to them, but maybe they would be
interested to invest with you. Like they might say, well,
you know what, in order to ramp up domain, men equally,
(37:31):
you know you can you find your way to the
real estate of commerce people as well. By the way,
but if I'm trying to ramp up domain, what I
would do is I would want to give myself every
edge there was and I'd love to invest capital into
a business like you because you're going to run it.
I'm not going to do it. And you can open
up every state and they just make sure you just
for but I would want to exclusive if you deal
with you with domain. I mean, maybe that's a way
(37:53):
of building your business up with the putt your hand,
your own pocket, because you know capital, this will require
a bit of patient capital happen overnight. But you know,
then if you've got a national footprint, then you become
very buyable. But the only problem that, of course, is
that once you do a deal with some like co
Star or Domain, they're not going to You're not never
going to be able to do it. But there's no tension.
(38:15):
You are better to do a deal with real estate
dot com. So you need to build into an agreement
the ability for you to put to them your share
at some time for a value.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I need you to act for me.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, well you got your don't worry, you got you
got your father in law, like he's pretty good at
this stuff. But I'm just saying, but this is the way.
Because you're a younger, you've got to work out, well,
what's the future hold. I mean, you can keep doing
what you're doing. I get it, but it'll take another
ten years to get there. But if you can fast
track it with someone who's got a need for it, yes,
(38:46):
and that requires that usually in this world, our world
in Australia, that requires introductions. But I would know only
introduce you because I'm doing I'd be doing them a favor.
The way I'm looking at it, I'm not trying to
do you. I'm not trying to do you. I I'd
love to know, but it's in my interest because you know,
Joe will think, well, this is good. Now I can
(39:06):
introduce you to Joe get my guys, because Joe's becomes
Joe's been on our podcast, so we can push into
Joe and then I'd live it with Joe to go
to Coast I. It would be his call. But it'd
be great to see a young person here in Australia
like you who's ambitious, a good entrepreneur, a startup, be
all beyond start, but you're a startup here, do a
deal with the big international organization is really aggressive and
(39:31):
help them do what they want to do. Now, I
don't realist dot com to get upset with me because
Lachlin and I'd be happy to introduce you to Ari
as well, by the way, because you know, a real
estate dot com could do exactly the same thing because
they're que acquisitive as well.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, of course they.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Buy businesses and investing businesses all the time. But just
I was just thinking, as you're speaking, then Coast I
would probably be more aggressively interested because they've got to
come from what have they got twelve fifteen percent of
the market domain. You know, real estate dot Com probably
do the need to do it because they control the marketplace. Yes,
they're both extraordinarily profitable. They're smashing it completely. And you
(40:07):
can't list a house today or anything without going through
one of those two.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, not at all. And it's funny because and I
mean this, I mean when I say, when I speak
to vendors or agents, I always say to them, I
want to be responsible for finding your buyer for the
fee that you pay me, I really want to deliver,
and we do. And so partnering up with one of them,
(40:32):
if it facilitates that goal, that makes me happy, because
that's it's a genuine mission. And if it's growing the business,
that's it's, at the end of the day, my baby.
And if something like that helps it grow, I'm open
to anything.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Really, I'll get the boys too, but we'll do an intro.
I'll the boys all write up and I'll send on
my email to Joe and Joe will probably come back
for Christmas, I guess. But man, I'm happy to do
it and see where it takes to them. But you know,
keep doing all the good stuff, mate, you're killing it.
I'm very impressed. For a young man from this of
a Sydney to do so well, and goodluck in your
(41:08):
upcoming nuptials. When you're gonna get married.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
That's up to that's up to my fiance that one.
So I proposed to her two weeks ago. That was
enough planning for me. I'm just to her, you just
do the rest. Do you do the rest.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I'll just show up so well, well done. Congratulations, you're
on a good path mate.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Thank you, Mar, appreciate it.
Ari, Calomnis Mark Burs how'd.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You go very well?
Speaker 1 (00:06):
But how do I go? How do I go?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
How did you go very well?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Calomnis Carla Manus, Yes, and not as opposed to Cala Manus.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's you know what You've nailed it.
You're a fellow Greek, you know, you know yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And sometimes you go by the name of Ari James.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes, not by choice, but by where's.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That come from? Own? Obviously middle names James, but my
dad James James. And you when you say James as
in Dimitri as your father's obviously that's your father's surname
or your month surname.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Father's surname. Dud's first name is James.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Okay, okay, you James, Admitri.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
He goes by James with some people call him Dimmy, yeah,
but everyone just calls me Ari.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And where does Ari James appear in terms of your business?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So it does not appear necessarily anywhere in the business.
But there was a recent news article which referred to
me as a James, but that was by the author's choice,
not by mind.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I didn't know as an error. Okay, now I got it,
because I don't want to get your name wrong, and
I mean it's just for the audience to Sayuri's usually
short for Aristotle.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well usually it is, but it's just Ari on.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
The birth really lucky because that's a big name to
live up to, mate Aristotle, and to be also pretty
hard on a kid in your kindergarten four or five
year old having to explain to everybody's name is Aristotle.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes, yeah, exactly, And that's just is a big name
to live up to. So that's why they just thought
we'll call him ari Ari.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And you're the founder of million dollar Listing Sydney, yes,
and we're going to talk about that in a moment.
But you're only pretty young, young, a young fella, twenty eight.
What's the deal man, How did you get into this
business or did you start off?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I started eleven years ago. I was at school and
it was really just out of a passion for property.
I wanted to know what things on the market were
selling for, what their price, guards were, wanted to know
what things sold for. I wanted to know what things
at least for and so that interest I thought, I
was just start uploading these properties on social media that
(02:14):
I'm interested in. It developed a large following just right
off the bat. So I thought, of all other people
are clearly interested, and it just had momentum from there.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Like at a seven eight we were at school seven
and you would have been there was your eleven scool,
So year eleven school. How is it you're interested in
I mean, I guess some kids are riches in big
boats and other riches and private jets, and you're obviously
interested in what we'll ask you, why are we interested
in real estate?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So my family are in property, and it was always
spoken about around the house, and there was an early
suggestion that I should be a real estate agent, and
I thought, well, I'm interested in property. I'm going to
start this page. I'll anonymously promote myself if I become
an agent. Through this page, I'll post my results, my listings.
(03:02):
I didn't end up becoming an agent. I studied, got
an atar, and I started commerce law. It's in the UNI.
Practiced as a lawyer. But this business I continued to
run throughout school and throughout YUNI and still.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Today, seventeen years of age. Your to yourself, I might
start sort of sort of marketing myself to some extent
and testing out the real estate marketplace, Mike and myself
is a sort of like a real estate agent to
some extent, like a it's sort of like a not
a fake real estate agent, but like a I don't
know what the word is, but I guess you're just
(03:39):
testing out the real agent. Yeah, the facto. Yeah, sort
of like a mum or dad will be the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, you know, Mum has a particular interest in real
estates and I should always talk about it. And you know,
like I grew up in Bondai and there were things
selling and she would a herself, wonder what that's sold for?
And I thought, okay, I'll call it the agent and
find out. And I would just post it to this
Instagram and it would get all these clicks and all
these views and likes, and I thought, wow, like there's
(04:08):
there's something here. There's just an energy here, There's there's
an addiction to that viewership, into that engagement. And so
it just kept going.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Can I what do you think you've been on it
for eleven years? Yes, maybe just break it down a
little bit now after you've you know, you've got a
lot of experience in this. You obviously posted thousands of houses,
You've got a big following. We'll talk about the business
side of things at a moment. But what do you
think it is in Sydney at least? What is our
(04:41):
compulsion with expensive most times hard to out without outside
of our own reach properties, and probably most of them
are on the water, but you know, sometimes not. But
what is it about Sydney people that makes that so
such a popular.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
P It's interesting, It's a good question. So I think
that Sydney prices have been massive relative to other areas,
both nationally and internationally. The prices are so big that
people are like, who are buying these properties? Who's selling them?
How do they get this much money? And also the
(05:23):
growth in price for eleven years, everyone's saying, how is
this sustainable? Because I used to get that question even
when I started there is there a bubble? Is this sustainable?
I've just seen the market increase in that whole period.
So I think the curiosity and the interest is how
are these properties worth so much? And how does it
(05:44):
just keep increasing? So I think that's for me, at least,
the curiosity and the interest.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
So the international magazine called The Economist, Yes, which is
heavily relied on sort of as a research tool for
organizations around the world world when they're trying to get
a gauge on an asset class in any country. So
the economists talks about all sorts of asset classes, you know,
(06:12):
goal mining, shares, fund management, any asset class you can imagine,
including property, and the economists has traditionally raised the prices
of property, not just in Sydney but Australia wide. How
we've enjoyed property price rises for a long long time,
(06:37):
very rare. Do we see property reductions? Yes, and in particular.
And I know about this because I used to have
to try to defend our position every time I did
a bond issue many many years ago, when used to
raise money through the bond markets in relation to strain
wotagsh ones, and we managed to continue to defeat it.
But there was a sense that globally that Sydney in particular,
(06:58):
house prices are outlandish. We're talking about an average, but
of course the places you're posting, they're the really expensive places.
They actually bring the average up. Not everything sells at
that price, but nonetheless that sort of nearly doubting Thomas
(07:21):
type syndrome about Sydney house prices. They can't keep going
and going and going. What is someone like you who's
out there now these days? I'm really involved in this.
What is someone like you think about that sort of
proposition that Sydney house prices are going to take a
massive reduction we have. You know, the economists used to
(07:41):
talk about a thirty percent reduction. I've never seen. It's
never happened. It didn't even happen during the GFC. It's
never happened. And in fact, when it has happened a
little bit, they bounced back at an even great rate.
What do you feel and who are these buyers? Where
they're coming from, and where do they get their money from?
By the way, often think how do those build forward?
That place?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, it's interesting. So I think that I'm a bit
of an optimist, and I think glass half full, Yeah, exactly,
glass half full. I anticipated it's just going to keep increasing, honestly,
And I think at that top level buyers are less
price sensitive because at that level they're mostly cash buyers.
(08:23):
Well it's eighty percent cash, maybe a bit of a
mortgage at that ten million plus level potentially, Whereas the
sensitivity I guess to interest rates, for example, is in
that it could be in that one to two million,
one to five million dollar area where there is a sensitivity,
but even that area keeps increasing. Like padding turn Bolara,
(08:45):
those suburbs are just going up, at least from what
I'm saying, So I do not expect it to go
down because I am an optimist, but also being involved
in posting and advertising for eleven years, I just haven't
seen a reduction. So looking past and looking into the future,
I just think it's going to continue.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So the demand to advertise on your pages, yes, do
you see that demand? Did that demand kick out much
after the interest rate first interest rate reduction in February
this year?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So, to be honest, I compared to answer your question,
I don't think of the increase or decrease. It was
just it just kept going, and I noticed a proliferation,
an increase on the site where number one we started
getting twenty eight million views a month, and I was
published publicizing that and think people are thinking, wow, there's
(09:41):
all these alternatives that are quite expensive to advertise on,
but maybe don't get as many views from qualified people
from passive buyers. So there was an increase when I
started publicizing that. Notwithstanding interest rate movements in a low
interest rate environment. In a high interest rate environment, we've
still consistently received a lot of properties. And that's also
(10:04):
because we advertise all over Sydney, like including the Southern
Highlands which is New South Wales. Just all over the place.
We've got a constant stream of property.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's just New South Wales.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, but we will do interstate properties occasionally because Sydney
buyers are interested. Yeah, other properties outside of Sydney, but
the majority is in Sydney that we advertise.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So that you're not you didn't see any change or
you're not seeing changes when interest rates went up, and
you're not seeing change any changes when interest rates went down,
And that may be right, that may be just a
consequence of the buyers and or the vendors not being
sensitive to price and all interest rates. Yes, so therefore
(10:53):
those buyers. Do you get to see the buy side much?
Do you get to see who the buyers? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So we don't not really like we kind of just
get the sold price, address, bed, bath, car and the
agent's contact and it ends there. It's quick summary. We
don't necessarily find out who the buyers are, and nor
would I want to get into publishing them because there
is a privacy element.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
But you don't get to see behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
No, not behind the scenes. We actually were getting involved
a little bit in the photography and et cetera. When
the property is being listed on the market, so you
meet the seller, but in terms of the buyer, once
the property is sold, will be sent the sold information,
but they don't typically include the buyer. You'll find that
in AFI articles and things like that that just clows
(11:41):
the buyer.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, John the Chancellor or one of those real estate writers.
So just so I can get a bit of an
understanding of your model. Your business model. So your business
model is properties largely in New South Wales, probably more
confined to Sydney than anywhere else the greater Sydney. Occasionally
(12:05):
you can do stuff from outside of Sydney in New
South Wales and outside of New South Wales's occasional, but
it's not really your bread and butter. Vendors are the
ones who are approaching you or vendors agents.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes, so it's a real mix both. Yeah, which is great.
So we've made around a lot of the advertising budgets
for the agents. So where real estate domain and are
listed on there, and that is budgets pretended to the vendor.
We're on those budgets now.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So maybe you can explain that pleas So you're saying
that asient goes along to someone who's got a big
waterfront house, for example on Sydney Harbor, and it's ten
million dollars sale for fragment's sake, and you say it
and the vendor, the agent says to the vendor, look,
we're going to put some advertising on realested dot com
domain domain or wherever. By the way, we recommend you
(12:53):
put a little bit onto ORI's posting. Yes and so,
and this is our budget for advertising. Is what we
recommend to you to the vendor. And then it was
fifty grand or something. The vindows are great worries. Dick
pays fifty grand. They book, someone comes out and takes
photographs yep. And then they distribute the photographs to you
(13:13):
to us yep.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So we will receive the photos, receive the price guide, address,
bed bath, cart age, and contact. That's it. That's just
the key details. And what's interesting though, is that we
receive those properties from the agent once they receive the
high raise images and all that. But we get so
many requests from vendors directly through the page to say
(13:36):
how do we get on here? Which is interesting to
me because vendors following means when they sell, they become buyers,
and these buyers are following, and I know for a
fact that they are, Like there was an interesting statistic
that we had where it was eighty percent of properties
in belvy Hill that sold over thirty mil were either
(13:57):
bought or sold by follower of the page million. All
these things Sidney, So that's very you're in front of
the right audience. And so back to the point that
vendors reaching out to advertise is really key thing for me,
and I think it's super valuable because it shows that
they're watching and they want their property there. But now
(14:17):
that we are on the budgets, we get that consistent
flow from the agents as they list properties.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So in terms of your business model, do you have
have you had to bring in business development manager of BDMS?
What do you want to call them to go on
to all the agents and say, here's our rate card,
these are numbers, this is what we do. View advertise
on our on our in our these are posts. I
(14:44):
presume your post on the page you're not running the
one stories winging on that.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, we do stories as well. It's a post and story.
And so, because I've been doing it for so long,
I developed good relationships with all the agents in the
early days because social media was kind of a novelty
back then advertising on their real estate. So I became
good mates with the agents and so we have that
constant dialogue. I speak to them all every single day.
(15:09):
So in terms of our pricing and things like that,
or we only charged about five years in, we really
built up the following and then it was able to
be monetized, and then at that point we said, okay,
this is what we're going to charge. Each year, there
have been incremental increases. I actually don't like to increase
prices too much, but there's been incremental increases, and I
(15:32):
want to always deliver it, deliver a commensate, commensurate around
of value for that increase. But in terms of business
development and sales, I've really got none of that. I've
got full staff total plus many and it's really just
the agent saying, what's your price. This is it. We
send a media kid out, send that pricing out, and
that's it. They put it on their budget and we
(15:53):
go from there. Low overheads, low overheads, yea, but that
allows me to keep prices down to Yeah, also makes
it much more attractive than to the vendors agent.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yes, mind you a lot of these places, as you say,
they're selling selling for ten plus. Yes, they're not that
sensitive to the advertising cost.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, like it's not the bigger deal, yeah, because they
were for a start, they're going to be paying between
one and two percent commission to the vendor, ay to
the agent anyway somewhere around there. So like that in
itself is a huge amount of money if you're selling
something for twenty million. So whether or not you've got
to pony up on a little bit of money to
(16:31):
go on, you know, onto your Instagram page, that's pretty amazing.
How did you manage to come up with the name
Millionaire Listings? And when? How did you get that name?
But I'm sure I can't believe it. No one has
owned it.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, so it's I couldn't believe it. When I
registered it those years ago, it was readily available. And
I was a big fan of the show Osies, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And did you watch that show? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I watched that show.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Was that a source of inspiration for you?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It was in a sense like I just I saw
it and I watched it. I thought, okay, it's a
good show. It doesn't exist in Australia. In Sydney. It
didn't exist in Australia and it still doesn't other than
my page, and so I thought I'll just register it
and start my own thing here. So yeah, you could
say it's a source of inspiration, but I just thought
it was a great name. It's a million dollar listing.
(17:21):
It's catchy.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, mind you, it should be multimillion dollars listings. Yea,
everything everyone in definitely Sydney. Everything's a million dollar. The
average house is a million and a half. I think
one pix.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Last yesterday I was in Melbourne and it's funny you
should be talking about how Marcus have responded more recently.
But they were telling me that these guys are real estate.
In fact, the guy was a valuer that I was
dealing with and a big value down and he said
to me that a lot of the places down in
Melbourne are not getting the valuations, particularly in the place
like the Mornington potinsulas in place they're great places, but
(17:55):
no one actually lives in them. It's more of a
weekend to type deal. And they, he said, we places
for sale down there and they just sit on the
sit on the listing pages with ages for ages don't
don't sell. He said, they've actually sort of dropped in valuations.
We don't seem to have anything like that in New
South Wales. Nothing seems to be affected like that here,
(18:15):
particularly here in Sydney. How important do you think it
is in attracting particularly international interest, How important it is
to have a government in a state that doesn't want
to throw the baby out of the bath water light?
They having Victoria, you know, like this land tax of
over fifty thousand dollars land value land tax. Then they've
(18:37):
got a whole lot of other taxes there to prosperity taxes.
They've got a whole series of taxes there, part from
the stems and it's investors have gone, I'm not going there,
I'm not spending money there. How important is it has
it been for your rise to this very successful rise,
for you to be operating in a state like New
South Wales.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, I think it's okay. So I just went to
Melbourne a few weeks ago and they were saying exactly
what you said. And there is such an animosity towards
the government over there because since COVID they said they
just ruined our market, They've ruined Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
They will say, well, they borrowed heaps of money, they've
lost their international rating agencies ratings. The government has to
borrow more money, therefore us to pay more interest because
the rating is the rating of the government. Yes, office
has been reduced. They've got taxes everywhere and they've got
people leaving their joint and drives. But that's the thing
and that but they still keept getting voted in, which
(19:31):
is the most surprising part.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But there is just an overwhelming I'm sure Sydney is
so much better than Melbourne, but an overwhelming amount of
tax is so it's actually debilitating because like even in
Sydney and at standard, you've got your quarterly does GST,
you get your income tax, you pay GST and you're
pay invoices, you pay your council rates and all these things.
(19:54):
It can be quite overwhelming. And I think a government
that is supportive of people that are actually out there
doing things and having a crack that's so important it's inspiring,
it facilitates growth, and it gives you purpose. If you're
going out there doing something and you're not getting bloody
taxed to death, you need that to grite.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Because a lot of you are your vendors generally speaking Australians,
I mean like they because of it, or are they
like a lot of people from overseas who've decided to sell.
And therefore I would ask the question, do you to
this tent? You know, are the buyers coming from overseas?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yes? Yes, so okay, there's a lot of people in Australia,
a lot of vendors and buyers in Australia that subscribe,
but there are so many from overseas as well. I'll
get a call a monthly from someone in London saying
I own a house in Rose Bay, I'm working in London.
We want to feature on the site. So there's so
many times where a buyer from Singapore or overseas comes
(20:58):
from the page as well, and it's the beauty of
social media. They may not be and I have the
greatest respect for the major portals, but they may not
be searching on those portals Belby Hill or even Southern
Highlands but they're on social media and the property is
brought to them and they think I didn't know I
wanted something like this. So that's the beauty of social
(21:20):
media's you can you can go over the geographic borders
and just push things globally and they see it and
they act on it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, if I how do you you mentioned subscriptions people
who are on your postings? Who are your posting Subscribers
is followers follow us, not subscribers as it, followers that
think you've built some other sort of model. Subscription model
follow us. So yeah, because it's very easy. If I'm
(21:50):
living in London, I've got a probably in Rose Bay,
and I'm now decide I don't need anyone because I
want to live over there for the rest of my life.
I'm just following your page, so you're updating me every
day as to what's going on. You're not only and
by the way, some of the big portals like you know,
domain and rested dot com, they're very busy, very busy,
(22:11):
and they're sort of quite noisy, whereas you're just Sydney
very much in Southern Highlands. But it's sort of just simpler.
I mean, you're having times a dare you post?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
We make it out about ten to day, so.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I'm only getting ten. So whereas if I go on
to one of the big portals, I got to put
in my search and I go or I can, I
can actually you know, get it to ping me. But
it doesn't matter that I put in a search and
I've got to sort of go through everything, and it's
a bit it's not a haushole. But yours is more,
You're more Yours are more sort of very targeted.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yes, it's more curated and target totally.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Curated and completely targeted. Do I if I'm looking at
it and I'm living in London, I'm that person and
I'm potentially going to buy something in Sydney because I
know I'm wanting to send my family to there some
m kids go to school and Rose Bay wherever am
I would I be fairly confident that I'm seeing most
of the properties that are being that are for sale
(23:09):
in the area that I'm not missing out because I
don't go on a real estate dot comm or I
don't go on to domain.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So you definitely you wouldn't be missing out if it
was ten mili plus where it's on there one million
dollar listings. Yeah, you're not missing out on that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So pretty much everyone the model is every property. So
do you do You go and scour the other the
portals and say, hey, I we're not having all this
property on our pages.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So back in the day, I would like when I
was hustling a bit and it was less of a
business than what it was now, I'd go on there
and I'd call and say, you know, let's get this
on here. I can deliver more views than it.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And you do it for free too.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Probably yeah, back then I would, but now it doesn't
happen anymore. You ah, actually haven't done too much marketing
or sales. It's the marketing for me. It comes from
delivering a good product and being out there constantly. But
in terms of calling nowadays, now that we're on the
budgets and I've got these relations with the agents and
(24:05):
they're getting results from the page, it's all just coming through,
which is a good place to be.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
What was how many? So let's say on one page,
on one post, I should say do you have late
five photos or just one photo? It can be up
to twenty images, and put twenty images on so I
can scroll through. Yes, to have a look at everything.
So have you learned in this process what vendors should
(24:29):
be advertising? I don't mean that's probably not look away
putting it. Are you are you able to say to
an agent or a vendor, look, this is what works best. Yep,
show us the kitchen and show us the pool, you know,
like sometimes you know, I get really annoyed, but sometimes
I go into an agent's page on real estate dot com,
for example, and they'll have photographs of a lamp, you know,
(24:51):
like just I think, well, what are you not telling me?
Why are you showing me that shit? Yes? What have
you learned that are the real hot points? Say that
you could fill out there are ten things or whether
it is there five non negotiables that must be put
in the photograph?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I think you'd find that we mostly always lead
the hero images to the facade.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
But you mean the outside, Yeah, the outside in the
front of the half the first thing you see, the first.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Thing you see generally about ninety percent of the time.
And we've found that that respond that there's a great
response to that. And it comes back to that curiosity
when I were driving the street and I think I
wonder what that's sold for you recognize the facade right
away and you think, oh, it's that property. Now let's
see the inside. But if there's a really nice interior,
(25:36):
designer will lead with an internal shot. But in terms
of non negotiables, I totally agree that you don't want
to be seeing a close up of a lamp or
a close up of the carpet. Yeah, I want to
see personally the facade. If there's a pool, to see
the pool, the rear facade, view kitchen, bedrooms, bathrooms, that's
all the stuff I want to see, and the living
(25:58):
room space. So as long as there's all of that
in there, I think it's a it's a go.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Has there been anything quirky that has in terms of
how you how a vendor and through your pages presents
probably any standout or any quirky that you've noticed that Wow,
that worked that ordinarily you would not have thought of. Yeah, learnings.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I mean traditionally, if it's a high price point, it's
going to go nuts the the post. But for the
lower end ones, it's got to You've got to make
it kind of interesting. And that comes down to really
good photography at the end of the day, because we're
just advertising the materials sent to us.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
So that's why we started getting into the photography, because
we started noticing the photography is key. It's got to
be kind of ardy, kind of quirky.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Here, because you don't want one vendors agent to do
get their photographer to take up who might be a
great photographer and that looks really good on one post,
and then another vendors agent it's got a crappy photographer exactly,
and because that affects the quality your paper.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
But that's it, that's it, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So what what have you learned then for I mean,
do you say to the vendors edge of this, this
is the photographers you should use or how does it work? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, So for the standard we've got prices that range
from five hundred and fifty dollars to twenty thousand dollars.
For those top end packages, we will say to the vendor,
we're going to organize photographers and do it ourselves and
do the advertising for you. That way, we have a
bit of quality control for that lesser price point of
(27:33):
the five hundred and fifty, say, and the materials sent
to us, the agents kind of feel to the property
for us they will submit a great property most of
the time, and even if for me, again, if it's
a lesser attractive property but it's an interesting sale. It
could even be one million dollar sale of a terrace
(27:55):
in Bonda Junction call it and it's quite unattractive, or
it's a bit derely, that's interesting to me because I
could I could think of that as a flip opportunity.
Or if that terrorist gets one, then this fully renovated
one in Paddington should get five. Kind of thing. So
the lesser attractive stuff can actually do well if it's
(28:15):
got a uniqueness to it, if it's kind of an
uninhabitable property and people think, oh gosh, well the potential.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
There, or renovator his dream, renovator's dream, they.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Think how did it get all that money and they're
freaking out, or you know, renovator's dream. The potential of
this thing. It could be worth x amount of money
after I renovate it. So there is we do like
to curate and have a really nice and good looking
but the unattractive ones together with an interesting number, interesting
(28:44):
sale or interesting price guide can fly and really do well.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So he still will do it.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You never still do it.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
You still do a million dollars two million dollar type
deals and so like you're a young fellow doing well.
I'd imagine you're saved a few bucks. Where where do
you buy in Sydney? I mean, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
So I recently my most recent purchase was the Piccolo
Bar and in the Cross. It's the oldest bar or
coffee shop in the Cross. Yeah, but I didn't buy
the business, it was the property. I mean, I love
pots Point and the Cross. I think it's great. My
now fiance lives here. I live in Bondai. I love Bondai,
(29:25):
going to the beach in the morning and then coming
here for dinner or whatever. It's a good lifestyle. But
for me, near the train station is great. Near the
beach is good. So that's what I like.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I like.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I like properties that I can drive past and visits
and walk past when I'm going for a walk.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So so you rate, you rate King's Cross, pots Point?
I think around this where we are right now, and
by the way, so do I. I'm a I'm a
bit of property ready, as does your father in law.
In fact, he and I a couple of times have
competed on a few properties around here. Yeah, so I
actually try to buy the one up up there in
(30:08):
King's Cross that what's that business he's got there? He
leases our rooms?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Oh yeah, yeah with the coffee shop.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah yeah, I tried to buy that, but he bought it.
And then and then he and I both try to
buy a pub down the road here recently in Darlings
in Liverpool Street on the corner of that. But your
father or your potential your future father, and I should
say he did not offer enough, and I often enough,
but I stuffed around and someone else got it from
(30:37):
both of us. Interesting, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think.
I don't think if I realized, I was one of
the bitterest. But so because we love this ERAa, I
love this area. He does too, particularly love he loves
Oxford Street. But this area is fantastic. Yes, why do
you think? Why? What are the hallmarks of what you
considered to be an area that is worth investing in?
(30:59):
So what do you are you talking about? You talking
about position, population, demand, socio economics. Closest to the city
puts inmity and then it is what are you looking at?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
So the Piccolo's a commercial property, So for me, density
and a lot of residents. I think is great in
terms of if that tenant ever left, least ability would
be good. It would be achievable because there's so many
people and the business wants to be that. But what
I'm really looking at now is, so I live in
Bondai to drive to visit my fiance and Potts Point,
(31:33):
there is so much traffic in Rose Bay, New South that's.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Out of control. It's actually especially between school hours, yes,
morning and afternoon, it's shocking. And there's so many traders
out there. It is out of control.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
It's out of control. And so that concerns me a
little bit. Like one of the things, one of the
reasons I would potentially leave that area is because of
that traffic and those new zoning laws aren't helping. The
high rise apartments is going to be massive over well
not may not be an over supply, but a massive supply, but.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It's going to be a whole lot more people. Yes,
that's going to be the issue.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yes, And so that like so traffic number one. Pots
Point proximity to the city is good. When I was
practicing as a lawyer, I caught the train every day.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You can walk to Yes on a cool day, not today,
but on a nice winter's day you can walk easy.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, So I think proximity to the city is great.
Again back to Bondo though the beach, I love it,
Like I go every morning walk there and get my
coffee there. I just think it's great.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
But if you that's okay if you work from home,
but if you're going to schlep into the city every day, yeah,
it's that's a punish. I'm totally on side with that,
the whole proposition. I mean, the best best of worlds
would be have a place around here, somewhere Darling As,
Pots Point, Kings Cross, whatever, and then have a place
(32:58):
there for the weekend. We just go home on the
weekend and go to the beach for sure, But the
best world would be to do one of the both.
But if you had to make a choice, I just
think time saved is really important these days, especially if
you have to work in the city.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, so that's that's very interesting. So so proximity is
a big deal for you location and it's not like
you're moving out you know that's going to take you
an hour to get to the beach from Like if
you're here, living here and you want to go to
the beach. You can be there in fifteen minutes on
a normal.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Day, Yes, in half an hour, just just about the move.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
So ari given that co stars just bought Domain, yes
for a big number, and real estate real estate dot Com,
which is like you know, the eight hundred pound guerilla
here in Australia, you know, has massive market share backed
(33:53):
by a news corps here. This sort of got a
great business but relative to you a little and you're
sort of floating around there. At what point would some
of my co star who's just bought Domain, who's very inquisitive,
who wants to beat real estate dot Com, or at
least recognize her that there's market share to be one.
(34:16):
Have anyone come and talk to you yet, anyone tap
you on the shoulder.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I've had a few, Yeah, I've had a few people
and like sophisticated investors. And I met with John McGraw
once and he described my business as a mini aria
and he was an early investor in Aria. But he said,
you're a mini aria basically how you put it, and
there's a massive I don't view myself as a competitor
to them at all. No, No, I'm a user of them,
and I'm complimentary to them because, as I said, we
(34:42):
publish a summary of the details price Guide, et cetera.
And plenty of agents have said that following your post,
our increase in inquiry. It comes from the post, but
there's also an increase in inquiry on domain or real
estate because people see it on the insta first, on
the social mena first, and then they search it up
(35:02):
on Google and either domain of real estate pops up.
So there is a synergy there, and you get more
detail once you're on the web, so you get more detail,
but there is a certain synergy there. And we're doing
twenty eight million views a month on average, so there
it's a you know, it's a good suggestion, like if
(35:22):
we combined forces and they can get an additional twenty
eight million views which is concentrated on one Sydney platform
rather than millions of views across Darwin Perth. But it's
on one platform that's that's powerful for that particular city.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
What do you consider opening up a million million dollar
listings in say Brisbane, one in Melbourne and one in
Perth and one in Adelaide. Yes, So that would require
a capital, that will.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Require capital and We've recently made a Melbourne move and
I've got two of the members of staff in Melbourne,
so we're in Melbourne now as of you know this week.
Basically because there was a page that was built up
there and it was a it had most importantly real
followers on social media. It's a big cowboys. Some people
(36:10):
can purchase the fake by followers and it's not real
like that's a it's a fraudulent thing. So when we
when we partnered and eventually took over this page, made
sure it was real followers as we do. It was
built up over eleven years, so that's that's critical. And
to build up a real following in each suburb requires capital,
requires the right partnerships, but it's going to happen. And
(36:33):
even New Zealand and Tasmania, there's plenty of agents there
and we're advertising a bit of stuff there and the
response on those properties is so high from Sydney buyers
that the agents there are saying, you've got to set
up shop here, will feed you everything.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So what I mean. One and I introduced you to
Joe Hockey from Bondo Partners. Now Joe Hockey is was
still is one of the advisors to the main guy
behind Coast in the US and Joe, I don't know
if you know Joe hockey course, so John Joe runs Bondopartners,
and Bondopartners had a lot to do with the domain
(37:10):
acquisition for the individual behind Coast in the United States.
And because if like, maybe you instead, I'm not saying
you should sell to them, but maybe they would be
interested to invest with you. Like they might say, well,
you know what, in order to ramp up domain, men equally,
(37:31):
you know you can you find your way to the
real estate of commerce people as well. By the way,
but if I'm trying to ramp up domain, what I
would do is I would want to give myself every
edge there was and I'd love to invest capital into
a business like you because you're going to run it.
I'm not going to do it. And you can open
up every state and they just make sure you just
for but I would want to exclusive if you deal
with you with domain. I mean, maybe that's a way
(37:53):
of building your business up with the putt your hand,
your own pocket, because you know capital, this will require
a bit of patient capital happen overnight. But you know,
then if you've got a national footprint, then you become
very buyable. But the only problem that, of course, is
that once you do a deal with some like co
Star or Domain, they're not going to You're not never
going to be able to do it. But there's no tension.
(38:15):
You are better to do a deal with real estate
dot com. So you need to build into an agreement
the ability for you to put to them your share
at some time for a value.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I need you to act for me.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, well you got your don't worry, you got you
got your father in law, like he's pretty good at
this stuff. But I'm just saying, but this is the way.
Because you're a younger, you've got to work out, well,
what's the future hold. I mean, you can keep doing
what you're doing. I get it, but it'll take another
ten years to get there. But if you can fast
track it with someone who's got a need for it, yes,
(38:46):
and that requires that usually in this world, our world
in Australia, that requires introductions. But I would know only
introduce you because I'm doing I'd be doing them a favor.
The way I'm looking at it, I'm not trying to
do you. I'm not trying to do you. I I'd
love to know, but it's in my interest because you know,
Joe will think, well, this is good. Now I can
(39:06):
introduce you to Joe get my guys, because Joe's becomes
Joe's been on our podcast, so we can push into
Joe and then I'd live it with Joe to go
to Coast I. It would be his call. But it'd
be great to see a young person here in Australia
like you who's ambitious, a good entrepreneur, a startup, be
all beyond start, but you're a startup here, do a
deal with the big international organization is really aggressive and
(39:31):
help them do what they want to do. Now, I
don't realist dot com to get upset with me because
Lachlin and I'd be happy to introduce you to Ari
as well, by the way, because you know, a real
estate dot com could do exactly the same thing because
they're que acquisitive as well.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, of course they.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Buy businesses and investing businesses all the time. But just
I was just thinking, as you're speaking, then Coast I
would probably be more aggressively interested because they've got to
come from what have they got twelve fifteen percent of
the market domain. You know, real estate dot Com probably
do the need to do it because they control the marketplace. Yes,
they're both extraordinarily profitable. They're smashing it completely. And you
(40:07):
can't list a house today or anything without going through
one of those two.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, not at all. And it's funny because and I
mean this, I mean when I say, when I speak
to vendors or agents, I always say to them, I
want to be responsible for finding your buyer for the
fee that you pay me, I really want to deliver,
and we do. And so partnering up with one of them,
(40:32):
if it facilitates that goal, that makes me happy, because
that's it's a genuine mission. And if it's growing the business,
that's it's, at the end of the day, my baby.
And if something like that helps it grow, I'm open
to anything.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Really, I'll get the boys too, but we'll do an intro.
I'll the boys all write up and I'll send on
my email to Joe and Joe will probably come back
for Christmas, I guess. But man, I'm happy to do
it and see where it takes to them. But you know,
keep doing all the good stuff, mate, you're killing it.
I'm very impressed. For a young man from this of
a Sydney to do so well, and goodluck in your
(41:08):
upcoming nuptials. When you're gonna get married.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
That's up to that's up to my fiance that one.
So I proposed to her two weeks ago. That was
enough planning for me. I'm just to her, you just
do the rest. Do you do the rest.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I'll just show up so well, well done. Congratulations, you're
on a good path mate.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Thank you, Mar, appreciate it.
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